Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Coruscant Security Force/Legends (second nomination)

Coruscant Security Force

 * Nominated by: Coruscantfan 03:33, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: Second attempt

Support

 * 1) Good work.-- 02:07, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) SinisterSamurai 17:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 12:14, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Good man. We'll make a FA nominator out of you yet.--ID-21 Dolphin 12:54, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Bella&#39;Mia 04:12, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

It's on me&hellip;

 * Overall:
 * Once you cite something, you don't have to repeatedly cite it as you did the first time. For example, once you do this don't keep doing that. Rather, do this  for every other time you cite a source or appearance. Please correct this throughout the article.
 * Well, does it really matter? I ask because it wouldn't change how the article looks or reads. It does the same thing either way that enter the code. And I would prefer not to change something like that if I don't have to. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand your point, I don't think this is one of those musts if you will. I'll strike this, but don't be surprised if an Inq takes issue with this.-- 01:50, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * We'll see I guess. Thanks. Coruscantfan 03:01, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Check for over/underlinking. I've done some for you. Don't worry about this, it's a problem with me, too.
 * Checked it, I don't see anymore linking problems. If you still find them, go ahead and fix them. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Intro:
 * Context for Coruscant, what I'm looking for is galactic capital.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 13:13, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Context for Darth Maul.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Context for Darth Cadeus, ie, he was a Sith Lord, or a Chief of State, both are not needed.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Responsibilities:
 * Again, context for Coruscant.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 13:13, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * TGR:
 * For the fourth paragraph, is there a particular year when this happened?
 * Done. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * TNR:
 * Context for Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade, and Leia Organa Solo.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * TGA:
 * Context for Lumiya and Alema Rar.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Establish that Solo not only became Chief of State, but also a Sith Lord.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * You might want to consider adding a few more details to the BTS, such as inclusion in the CSWE, etc.
 * Well, there isn't much to say. The CSWE entry isn't that impressive or noteworthy. In researching this topic I'm surprised at how little information there is compiled in one place. For an organization that plays a vital role in several places, its as if it doesn't even exist. The Star Wars databank doesn't have an entry and the CSWE entry is pathetic compared with all the information that I've been able to find. Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The mention in the CSWE is what I was looking for, since I do that. However, this falls under user preference, since there are many FAs that do not list the CSWE in the BTS.-- 01:59, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks very good, and I'm impressed with the research you put into this. Overall, the main problem I'm seeing is context for individuals and what not. If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask.-- 18:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Coruscantfan 19:14, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just be ready to update the article for any future sources/appearances. That is your responsibility as nominator, and I'm sure, when you promote this successfully to FA status, you don't want it to be removed down the road. Looking forward to reviewing your next nom.-- 02:07, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'm planning on doing that! Thanks for your help and your vote. Coruscantfan 03:01, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Quick preliminary

 * The BTS is confusing. Did Betrayal establish that the stormtroopers being attacked in ROTJ were part of the CSF? If not, that needs a source. If that is so, it needs to be rephrased, because it's kinda confusing as is.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 16:24, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 16:55, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * "This however, caused some confusion as the Coruscant Guard was the canon-established police force during the Imperial era but they were not shown in Return of the Jedi. It was assumed that stormtroopers stationed on Coruscant (including the ones shown in Return of the Jedi) simply were assigned to CSF and assisted guard units in police duties" This needs to be sourced. However, I'd suggest simply saying "The CSF first appeared in ROTJ SE, although this appearance was in the form of stormtroopers being attacked. Betrayal later confirmed that stormtroopers stationed on Coruscant simply were assigned to CSF and assisted guard units in police duties." or something similar. it just needs to be phrased to avoid speculation, and that sorta stuff.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 23:15, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 23:26, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Chick Gandil

 * For now, please fix the image placing in the article. Images should alternate right to left, beginning with the infobox image. Also, please also change any image caption that are close to IU description. And before I completely review the article, you need to make sure the entire article is properly sourced and free of any speculation/OR. Sentences like this: "In 22 BBY, the initiation of the Clone Wars brought changes to how the capital was policed. Police droids were used extensively as regular patrol units and were usually one of the first responders to situations." is speculation/OR, unless it's said in a source.  JangFett  (Talk) 15:44, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, just a few comments/questions... Images: They were alternating but a previous FA reviewer moved the 2nd and 3rd images and I can't find anywhere where the placement of pictures is dictated, so is that just tradition? Cause otherwise, I'm not seeing a problem with that and what happens when the next reviewer changes it back? So if there is no written guideline, I'd rather leave it cause it looks/reads better. Captions: If you could please be specific in what image captions you have a problem with because I'm not seeing where there is a problem when comparing the captions with the captions of other FA articles. I'm happy to make the adjustment, just let me know specifically where. Speculation: That sentence along with the rest of the paragraph is all sourced from the same source which is listed at the end of the paragraph. Police droids are first used during the Clone Wars and performed those duties based on the listed source. If you see other sentences you think are speculation please be specific because at this point I've sourced everything I think might be taken as speculation. Asking me to check the whole article for that (which I've done) doesn't help me fix problems. By the way, your reference to Chick Gandil made me laugh, that's funny ;) Coruscantfan 03:47, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I made adjustments to the pictures, does that look better? However my question still stands on the tradition/guidelines that have to do with pictures.Coruscantfan 02:05, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * If I may answer for Jang, you can see here that it says to alternate images.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 13:53, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok, good to know. I looked but couldn't find it. Somehow I missed that. Thanks! Coruscantfan 17:46, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Chack

 * "It was renamed the Anti-Terrorist Unit during the Galactic Alliance." You mean the Anti-Terrorism Unit, right? If so, I'd suggest changing "it" to "the latter."  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 14:13, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 17:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * More to come, perhaps.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 17:30, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

ZatoichiVendetta

 * I believe the subject of this article plays minor role in Shadows of Coruscant, an adventure outlined towards the end of the original Wizards of the Coast Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. SinisterSamurai 06:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, well, I'm not really sure what your objection is. I did make sure it was listed under the appearance section. Was that the problem?Coruscantfan 15:56, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The objection is that if the CSF is in the adventure, the source/appearance should be reviewed to determine if there is significant information regarding operations or history that may be added to the article. Just let me know once you've reviewed the adventure proper, determined if it needs a or something, and I'll strike the objection. SinisterSamurai 03:55, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I looked it up and there isn't enough to write anything. Mostly it concerns the Jedi, not CSF. Coruscantfan 22:59, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I had thought that a lot of the side characters were CSF, but upon review that seems to not be the case. Only thing I saw was that the CSF is one of the few organizations legally allowed to carry weapons on Coruscant. That's probably a given. SinisterSamurai 05:38, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't actually review the article at first. I will do so now, since I have some free time. Right off the bat, I'm noticing a lot of redirects. I don't think there's a genuine rule against them, but every redirect is additional drain, and slower connections may take much longer navigating away from your page. You can create a subpage and copy a script to highlight them for yourself (Example for Monaco skin, Example for monobook skin), or I can just fix them for you. SinisterSamurai 05:17, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know there are several redirects to the CSF (i.e. Coruscant Police and CSF), but I don't know how to see an overview of them (if that even exists) or how to do what your suggesting I do. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about, can you enlighten me? Coruscantfan 05:36, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Copy  to User:Coruscantfan/monobook.css or User:Coruscantfan/monaco.css, if you use Monaco. Then all links to redirects will be orange. --  1358  (Talk) 07:00, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks. SinisterSamurai: I did see the redirects and tried to make some adjustments. However I couldn't get a few of them to work out, if you want, go ahead and see what you can do with them. Coruscantfan 17:13, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. You can check the edit history if you want to see an underlinking trick or two. Removed redirect links to the categories: Criminal and Government, as I object to mid-article category links. I think those two things have identical definitions here on earth that they do in Star Wars, so I don't have a problem with them not being linked. If you want, you can create Crime and Government articles (Similar to your awesome Law Enforcement Agency article), but I don't feel that it's a requirement at this point. SinisterSamurai 21:36, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * In Organization, you mention that the command structure is similar to most police and paramilitary organizations. Since I genuinely don't know, what is that command structure? Since this is a common command structure, a link would be acceptable if you didn't want to detail it in-article. Also, what are some examples of similarly structured organizations? (One or two should be fine.) SinisterSamurai 05:38, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Usually it will start with officer or constable and go on up through sergeant, lieutenant, captain, with inspector/detective/agent thrown in there somewhere, depending on the agency. I created a page that I hope covers the topic successfully. I also linked organizations to Law enforcement agency. Coruscantfan 05:36, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * That works. Good stub. :) SinisterSamurai 21:36, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * SWAT, if that's what it's called in a Star Wars source, needs a link and/or context. SinisterSamurai 05:41, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 05:36, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't realize it was CSF exclusive. If SWAT is a common thing in space law enforcement, it needs it's own page. If it's CSF exclusive, a subsection of the CSF article (Special Units or Special Divisions or something under Organization). Either way, if the abbreviation is defined in a source, it should be under Special Tactics and Rescue at first mention in it's "home" article. If not defined by a source, the abbreviation definition should be mentioned Behind the scenes, but not in the IU parts of the article.SinisterSamurai 21:36, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * To my knowledge its a CSF exclusive because I haven't seen it in any other book or other EU material. But I created a separate page because other units such as the Anit-Terror/Anti-Terrorism units and the Coruscant Traffic Unit all have separate articles. I did have subsections for them at one point, but I was told to remove them so that's how I solved the issue. But at any rate, I'll move the definition under BTS since it didn't spell it out in the book.Coruscantfan 20:56, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Cav:

 * Organization - The CSF had a similar command structure to most police and paramilitary organizations. Which police and paramilitary organizations? In-universe or out-of-universe? If its IU, then examples should be listed and referenced. If OOU, then, well, you have a problem. Applying real world example to SW organizations isn't allowed, since what is true in the real world may not apply in the SW universe. If the latter is the case, then I'd suggest getting rid of the statement altogether.
 * Yeah, SinisterSamurai mentioned that too. I created a link for both command structure and organizations to explain both. The organization that are listed in the law enforcement agency article are the examples of similar organizations. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The wording is still problematic, and no example is offered despite the links. Even with a link, you can't use the word "most" as that would imply that we know about all law enforcement agencies in the SW universe. Also, you are sourcing that entire statement to the Darth Maul novel, which, unless it says explicitly in the book that this is the case, is false sourcing. Also, have we ever encountered the CSF command structure in any source? Have we ever met the commander of the entire CSF? I would, in all honest, eliminate the entire sentence as I don't think the statement can be properly sourced. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 00:02, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Organization - Two incidents of "was used to describe" in sentences following on from one another. Please reword to avoid repetition.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Galactic Republic - T'aug also closed the case of Ren S'orn at the request of his mother, Senator Uta S'orn. Context is needed on this. What was the case? Why was it closed?
 * I don't have any more information than that to give more context other than what was written under the Ren S'orn article. I tried looking for that book but couldn't find it. I asked around and no one else seemed to have the info either. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that's no excuse. Since FAs have to be as detailed as possible, nominators are expected to be able to access all sources. From what I can tell, S'orn appears in Jedi Apprentice: The Deadly Hunter. Here is a list of users who appear to have access to the novel. You'll have to ask them for information. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've sent a request, hopefully I can get the info soon. Coruscantfan 20:37, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I got the information and filled in the details.Coruscantfan 00:20, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Galactic Republic - Why was Maul chasing Assant and Pavan? Context is needed. And why did he call the CSF?
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * So he wanted transport, but you fail to mention that if he took the transport after killing the two CSF officers. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 00:02, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Clone Wars - Context needed for these events: Two noted operations the shock trooper Guards were involved were the raid on Ziro the Hutt's Coruscant club[25] and a hostage situation at the Senate.
 * CC asked about this too. I didn't give context because it has to do with the Coruscant Guard, not CSF. The intent was to give kind of a side note to show the Coruscant Guard was performing police duties at this point, not just military functions. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The New Republic - The New Republic again captured Coruscant in 11 ABY. If you're going to say they captured it again, first you are going to have to mentioned that they lost the planet.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * That event needs to be sourced, probably to Dark Empire. Also, the sourcing for the entire section should be redone. Grouping them at the end is counter-productive; the ref tags should be present at the relevant sections of text. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I sourced both, however I didn't use Dark Empire because it doesn't talk about the recapture of Coruscant. Coruscantfan 20:37, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The New Republic - In 26 ABY, Chief of State Borsk Fey'lya ordered the arrest of Luke and Mara Jade Skywalker. Why did he issue an arrest warrant for them?
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * But why, specifically? What were the charges? - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * A specific reason is never mentioned. The arrest was ordered in the context of the Anti-Jedi sentiment in the Senate. Coruscantfan 20:37, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The New Republic - Context for the Yuuzhan Vong War needed.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The invasion should probably be referenced to Vector Prime. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done.
 * The Galactic Alliance - Context for the Corellian Blockade needed.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * More, please. Why were Corellia and Coruscant at odds in the first place?
 * Done. (See first paragraph under Galactic Alliance.) Coruscantfan 20:37, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Galactic Alliance - During the war, Grand Master Skywalker had asked Jedi Master Tresina Lobi to keep an eye on his son, Ben Skywalker. Why? - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, more. Why specifically? What was Solo doing to Ben that Luke was concerned about? - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 09:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done.Coruscantfan 20:37, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Behind the scenes - The entire second paragraph needs to be sourced to reliable sources. It is not self-sourcing; is there any behind the scenes info stating that elements of the CSF are based on real life examples? Or are you seeing parallels yourself? If the latter, this falls into the territory of no original research. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 10:54, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. I actually did find out what the droids were based on so I added that and put a source with it. Coruscantfan 03:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Eyrezer

 * I'd like to see the BTS significantly expanded. Currently, you have where they first appeared, but you also need to specify where they were first identified, and perhaps also where where the alternate names were identified as being the same organization. --Eyrezer 00:44, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 02:59, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * When it comes to the BTS, please take your time and flesh out some of the details. It still needs to read as a coherent whole. I would suggest starting when when it was first identified, and later mention that it was retconned into the Special Edition. You also haven't showed that the different names actually refer to the same organisation. Does a source actually say that the "Coruscant Security Force" and the "Coruscant Police Force" are the same thing? --Eyrezer 03:11, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * How's that look? Coruscantfan 04:19, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * You say that they were first named in the RPG sourcebook, yet Inside the Worlds of Star Wars Episode I is listed as a source and came out prior to this? Is this the first mention of it? (And stylistically, you should spell out the full name in the BTS, not the acronym). --Eyrezer 11:20, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was the first mention. I listed that as a source because it contained information that I used about Coruscant, the Senate Guards, etc. i.e. topics that used it has a source. Coruscantfan 19:53, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. In the situation you have described, we do not list that source in the Appearances/Sources lists. Instead it is only referenced in the relevant foonotes. The Appearances/Sources sections should only be for those publications that mention the article's topic. Make sense? --Eyrezer 21:15, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah. Ok, yeah that makes sense. I'll remove it.Coruscantfan 23:59, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I still consider the BTS to need a major rewrite. Please spend more time detailing the development of this organisation and how the names, etc, link together. --Eyrezer 02:04, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's the problem. The video on StarWars.com about the police droids and Tan Divo is the first time that an official source has actually given background about a part of the CSF. Beyond the Roleplaying book, the background on the droids, some discussion on Tan Divo's personality, and indirect mentions here and there in the Databank, there is no background on the CSF presented/talked about/shown/written/emailed/published by any official source. There are no details on who came up with the name, who got them into the books, who came up with some of the background stories, why they came up with the different names, who decided they were the same, who is even influencing their appearances, etc. If I were to add any of those details, they would be pure speculation on my part. There simply is no other information to add. And trust me, I have looked! Coruscantfan 04:08, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Most articles are in the same boat. That doesn't mean you don't need to construct a coherent BTS. If it is as you say it is, then there is a particular need to be clear about the how the subject of the article developed. Mention all those things you have described. It does not need to be privy to the inner thoughts of the authors. Look at the BTS for Atrivis sector, for example. Major development of the sector was quite late, but I take the time to explain where it got to where it is today. You need to do the same, mentioning the authors etc that have contributed to it along the way. --Eyrezer 04:26, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * But all the things I described above is information that has no source. I noticed that you had several places where sources are listed, I can't do that. It seems I keep bumping heads with people over what is "original research" which is why I'm very hesitant to do what your suggesting. So I'll try to do what you did with the Atrivis sector, it just really seems like OR to me. Coruscantfan 00:15, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm happy to help you with it if you make a decent start. I was actually about to try writing it my self but got confused by the presence of Inside the Worlds of...' --Eyrezer 22:48, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hopefully that looks better... Coruscantfan 23:21, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that's more like it! Good work on this and good perseverance. A few things to polish it. It is probably not necessary to list the month of publication of the books. Some people just place the year in brackets (2002) etc, but it is fine with the year in prose as you have done here. As for their appearance in the Special Edition, I think this part could be a bit clearer. I suggest mentioning the source of the retcon first - Empire: Betrayal, I'm guessing - and then the effect of the retcon, ie, that their first appearance is accordingly backdated to 1997. That make sense? --Eyrezer 00:28, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * You should also add to which ever RC book first used that name for them. --Eyrezer 00:30, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I added the tag to the RC book. Yeah that makes sense, I can change that around. About the months, I added them in those places on purpose to give the reader a context on the time frame that the CSF was developed through books, etc and to show how closely some of the materials followed one another. Does it hurt to leave them? Coruscantfan 01:25, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you want them there and think they are useful, I'm personally fine with the months staying. --Eyrezer 01:31, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool! I made the suggested change for the retcon and moved the paragraph down, I think that reads better. Coruscantfan 01:34, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * The info in the first sentence in the Description section, do all three cited sources have all the information? If any of that info is unique to one of those sources, it needs to be sourced to that particular source. It is not sufficient to just source to all of them at the end. --Eyrezer 00:48, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole paragraph is written to read and flow easily. However each duty uses at least two of the sources listed at the end. Most have all three sources. I can seperate it out, but it would awfully redundant since they all use those same three sources. Which is why I sourced how I did. Coruscantfan 02:59, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. --Eyrezer 11:20, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Kasra's first objection

 * Wookieepedia's sourcing policy actually requires that you do this. Menkooroo 08:52, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll get to it. "Deeeeep sigh" :-) Coruscantfan 00:02, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its done. Coruscantfan 03:45, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Jinzler

 * The article includes Star Wars Galaxies as an appearance, but contains no information from the game. Can you check to see if there is any? --Jinzler 13:16, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * This was added back a couple years ago before I started working on the article. I looked but couldn't find any info, and the user who added it to the appearance section is no longer active. So I'm just going to remove it. Coruscantfan 15:57, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Jujiggum

 * "Though technically a security force headquartered on Coruscant, mostly they were involved in Galactic Alliance affairs, not local planetary issues." This sounds like OR to me; where in Outcast does it say this? In fact, I don't recall the CSF being mentioned in Outcast at all. And if the novel did mention the CSF, then you'd have to add it to the appearances section.
 * It doesn't say that word for word. I would not say its OR because based on the book, the GAS is headquartered on Coruscant and does operate as a police force. However they are under the GA and all their appearances so far have been dealing with the Jedi i.e. GA affairs. And no to my knowledge the CSF does not appear. (see comment below) Coruscantfan 02:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because the GAS is only shown taking care of Jedi affairs does not mean that they didn't attend to other "local planetary issues" either. Since Outcast does not say that the GAS didn't attend to other local planeary issues, this is speculation, and needs to be removed. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:15, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * But at the same time, it doesn't say that they did operate as a local police force. My opinion is that since they are called Galactic Alliance Security and since they were never shown responding to domestic disturbances, robberies etc., they replaced the GAG as the main security force for the GA at least to a certain extent. But that's an argument that I think should be hashed out somewhere else. For purposes of this article, I'm going to simply remove the information since it doesn't really effect the CSF. With the information from Backlash I have a better way of concluding the section anyways so I don't really see a need to talk about the GAS beyond mentioning their existence. Make sense? Coruscantfan 18:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your key words are: "my opinion." Unfortunately, our opinions don't decide canon. Official sources do. If the official source does not say it, and, in this case, does not even so much as imply it, then you cannot either. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 19:13, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right, it's my opinion, that's why I said it was my opinion. But my opinion that they were a security force dealing with GA matters is based on "circumstantial canon". They are called Galactic Alliance Security, not Galactic City Security and they only are shown dealing with issues that have to do with the GA government that they are ordered to deal with by the GA Chief of State. So yeah its an opinion, but I disagree that there it is not implied. Coruscantfan 00:01, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read this to understand why this is not the case. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:14, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've read that. Like I said, its my opinion. Coruscantfan 00:32, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then you should know that your opinion does not belong in articles. Only canonical facts.  Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:55, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right, I agree. But I think you misunderstand me. I made a logical deduction the GAS was a Galactic Alliance agency dealing with Galactic Alliance matters based on all the available information presented about the GAS. That information included but is not limited to: (1) They are called Galactic Alliance Security (2) They report to the Chief of State (3) They have authority to make arrests in other places besides Coruscant (4) Not once are they shown dealing with a local police matter on Coruscant, only with matters concerning the Jedi and GA government. My deduction does not require the reader to make "assumptions beyond what is in the source" nor does it change the "significance of the data" namely that they were a security agency that performed police functions. Since this fulfills the requirements of a logical deduction as demanded under What is not original research?, and since it can be "directly and explicitly supported by the cited sources", it can not be a theory/speculation/original idea based on my opinion. And it does not qualify under the other requirements for being OR: (1) defines or introduces new terms (neologisms), or provides new definitions of existing terms; (2) introduces an argument without citing a reliable source who has made that argument in relation to the topic of the article; (3) introduces an analysis or synthesis of published facts, opinions, or arguments without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reliable source who has published the material in relation to the topic of the article. I removed this from the article because on second thought it is not really relevant, not because I thought it was OR. Since you crossed this off earlier in the discussion, you found that to be good enough, and I thank for that. If you still believe it was/is OR, than I guess we just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Coruscantfan 00:06, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll respond to this on your talk page so as not to further clog up the nom. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:33, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * You currently have this sourced to Outcast, too: "The CSF continued to serve as Coruscant's police force." I don't recally anything in Outcast saying this; and per above, I don't recall Outcast mentioning the CSF at all.
 * (see comment below) Coruscantfan 02:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * This needs to be sourced to Backlash, and you should probably add, "&hellip;alongside Galactic Alliance Security." Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:15, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm going to re-write that. (see below comment) Coruscantfan 18:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Coruscant Security Force did appear in Backlash, which you don't currently have listed in the appearances section. Please rectify this and also check for missing info from the .v (If you do not have access to Backlash, I can help you with this one)
 * Cool, I'm not that familiar with Fate of the Jedi, just what I have read on Wookieepedia and from reading/skimming Outcast and at this point I don't have any access to the books. So to my knowledge I do/did not know of any appearance or activity of the CSF beyond Legacy of the Force. The last two paragraphs under the history section exist only to provide some sort of "closure". I also did not find any indication that the CSF ceased to exist hence the statement that "they continued..." though their is mention of the Coruscant Enforcement Services (listed under see also). I haven't found any evidence that CES and CSF are one and the same. So to make a long story short, any help that you can give me from that series and information of the CSF's activities during that time would be greatly appreciated! Coruscantfan 02:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, here's the info from Backlash: after Jedi Knight Sothais Saar developed the psychosis and was captured by Cilghal, Coruscant Security officers arrived at the front steps of the New Jedi Temple. There, they were met by Jedi who refused to let them enter to take Saar into custody, and they remained in a temporary standoff. Since the Jedi refused to turn Saar over, Chief of State Daala ordered a Mandalorian raid on the Jedi Temple. Later, someone used Coruscant Security as a front for signing off on the procession for the Funeral of Cha Niathal, using the name of "Captain Koltstan." However, further research showed that no "Captain Koltstan" existed in Coruscant Security, so Daala ordered her aid, Wynn Dorvan, to find out who really did pay for the procession. Security also reported that the threat level against Daala during the procession was rising very high. After Niathal's suicide, her public approval ratings had dropped, and Security suggested that Daala not attend the Funeral, as they thought that someone might try to assassinate her. She was reluctant not to attend, but Dorvan convinced her to take Security's advice. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:15, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you that gives me something to work with. Coruscantfan 18:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm pretty sure that the CSF was at least mentioned in Imperial Commando: 501st. If not, my mistake, but please double-check for any new info and, if it is mentioned, add this novel to the appearances section, too.
 * OK, I'll add that to the section as well as Backlash. Coruscantfan 02:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please make sure to check for info from the novel, too; like I said, I don't recall for sure how big a part the CSF played in the novel, I'm just pretty sure they made some small appearances or at least mentioned at some point. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 19:13, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I checked, its a mentioned only. I've made the correction in the appearance section. Thanks. Coruscantfan 00:01, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give the article a full-on review asap. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:19, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool, sounds good, thanks! Coruscantfan 02:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a couple more: "They were heavily involved in Chief of State Natasi Daala's feud with the New Jedi Order." Some more context on her "feud" with the Jedi Order would be good here.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 04:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Check your grammar here, please. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:55, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Better? Coruscantfan 00:06, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why did they arrest Luke?
 * Done. Coruscantfan 04:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * This doesn't really make sense without explanation of what particular charge&mdash;saying "dereliction of duty" would be good here. Jonjedigrandmaster ( Talk ) 15:55, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Change made. Coruscantfan 00:06, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Grammar here. Technically you're grammatically saying that the GAS arrested him by allowing Jacen to become Caedus. :P Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:33, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes I see how that would be an issue! ;-) Fixed. Coruscantfan 00:46, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * What's the deal with these Jedi having psychotic breakdowns? Some more context is needed here, especially since it is relevant to the CSF in the next section.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 04:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * No: you've just added their cause (which, by the way, you cannot source to Outcast). Why is this a big deal? Remmeber that this is relevant to the CSF in the next paragraph, too, not just the GAS, so appropriate context needs to be added. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:55, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that better? Coruscantfan 00:06, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, again, all you've done is state their cause. I'm not asking for the cause; I'm asking for why they're such a big deal. What is their significance? What exactly happens to these Jedi? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:33, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, got it. Added. Coruscantfan 00:46, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * "However, the Jedi were able to hold off the attack which ended in a siege of the Temple by Galactic Alliance forces." This statement is completely false. The raid and the seige were two completely separate attacks with plenty of time passing between them.
 * How much time? I'm going off what is written here on Wiki and I got the impression it was only a few hours. Coruscantfan 00:01, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * They take place in two different novels&mdash;we're talking at least a week or two in between, here, maybe more. If you check particularly the infoboxes of the two articles in question, you'll find that there are a ton of battles and skirmishes that take place in between them, and there's time passing between some of those battles and skirmishes. In the aftermath of the first Mando raid the Mandos do remain in a blockade of the Temple, but tensions seem to ease up a bit, even though the blockade doesn't necessarily go away (this part is a bit unclear in the novels). After a while, Turi Altamik goes psycho, and the Jedi capture her. Daala demands they turn Saar and Altamik over, but they refuse. Eventually, after further failed attempts to coerce the Jedi to cooperate, Daala finally orders the second Mando attack. But again, this is quite some time after the first. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:14, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I made the adjustment hopefully that makes it clearer. Coruscantfan 04:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the raid didn't necessarily fail: Daala prevented the Jedi from taking Saar off-world and from launching their StealthXs to help Luke; and the raid established a blockade on the Temple that prevented (for a time) any Jedi from leaving, as well as crippled the Temple's communications and food stores. Also, the later siege was carried out by Mandos again, not GA forces. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:55, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for clarifying that. Coruscantfan
 * Please check again, a part of this still remains incorrect. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:33, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel like Han Solo: "Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Where!?!" lol Seriously though, I'm not seeing it... Coruscantfan
 * Well, looking back on it&hellip;you're fine. I accidentally overlooked something when reading through it. :P Sorry about that. That full review is on its way as soon as I have time (it'll probably come in bits and pieces). Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:58, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good grief, I thought that was the full review, you mean that's not it!?! AAAAAAAH! lol Well, I need your Inq vote and Eyrezer's Inq vote to get all the FA votes that are required so hopefully this will be over soon! Thanks! Coruscantfan 01:14, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * The grammar and writing in the last paragraph of the "Galactic Alliance" section could generally be cleaned up; the wording and grammar are poor throughout. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 19:13, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 04:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Mia's little gripe
First time putting up an objection, so I hope this isn't too nit-picky...
 * You know how Jon mentioned an Imperial Commando: 501st appearance and you said it was mention only? That's technically true, but there's still some information that seems pretty relevant in there, too. For one thing, it says that Imperial Security had absorbed both the "detective and counter-terrorism side" of CSF, and that Imperial Security's "information technology center was an old Coruscant Security Force divisional HQ." Plus, the former CSF captain, Jaller Obrim, is now Imperial Security. I suggest taking a good look over Chapter 5 of the novel in case I missed anything else. Bella&#39;Mia 04:36, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the information in under Galactic Empire. However, I don't have the book anymore and judging by the hold list won't have it anytime soon, so I'll take your word for it. :-) Coruscantfan 13:07, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks good. You forgot to mention the detective aspect in addition to the counter-terrorist stuff, but I decided to just take care of it myself rather than harass you with little stuff that only takes two seconds to fix anyway. :P Hope that's okay, and you did quite a job on this, Coruscantfan. Bella&#39;Mia 04:09, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks good. Coruscantfan 12:41, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Jujiggum, part 2

 * In the intro: please avoid parentheses. I suggest using something along the lines of "&hellip;backup unit, also called a PCBU."
 * Done. Coruscantfan 20:56, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "This was especially true" How could something be "especially true?" Either it's true or it's not. Do you perhaps mean something more like "particularly common"?
 * Yes, that's what I meant. Correction made. Coruscantfan 20:56, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the first paragraph of the intro you give examples for some things but not for others. I would suggest leaving those examples (the mentions of the Maul and Divo situations) out for later in order to keep it consistent.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 20:56, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "During the Galactic Republic" The Galactic Republic was a government, not a time frame. Perhaps you could say something like "during the reign of the Galactic Republic" or "during the time of the Galactic Republic" or something similar.
 * Done. Coruscantfan 20:56, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "The Second Galactic Civil War placed the CSF right in the middle of the conflict between the Galactic Alliance and the Confederation." Wording issue here&mdash;this implies that they weren't on either side; that they were caught in the middle of the conflict between the two governments. But I'm pretty positive that the CSF was serving the Galactic Alliance.
 * Here is my reasoning: while yes they are "under" the GA, they are shown to respond to several riots and demonstrations held by supporters of both sides of the conflict. In one case they are creating a line between the two groups and between the two groups and the Senate Building. When things get out of hand they arrest whoever. Also when the GAG is established, one of the reasons was that Jacen says that the integrity of the CSF as a police force should be sustained and that a separate organization should be formed to actively deal with the Confederation supporters. He explains about how having the CSF perform those functions would make their job of policing "everyone" harder and that those who are not GA supporters would have a hard time trusting the CSF. So that's why I said it placed them "in the middle". Make sense? Coruscantfan 20:56, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "The CSF continued their police operations as they had before the Second Galactic Civil War." Are you sure about this? Where does it say so? Perhaps mention instead that they were used to capture psychotic Jedi, although that's really up to you.
 * Yes I'm sure. Its mentioned in the Legacy era series, (see the sources at the end of the GA History section.) I'd rather leave it how it is since they do several other things and the statement is more general and allows for those other activities. Coruscantfan 20:58, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:17, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue with the article's main body once you get through these. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 17:57, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * "These areas were rarely visited by police and when they did it was in force." Grammar.
 * Punctuation issue, done. Coruscantfan 22:27, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not just punctuation; this remains. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:37, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Try now. Coruscantfan 00:01, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do we have two separate articles for the Anti-Terrorist and Anti-Terrorism Units? You make it sound as though it was one Unit that was later renamed. If it was the same exact unit that was renamed, as you currently imply in the article, then the two Unit articles should be merged and the extra link removed from the CSF article. However, if we don't know for sure that they are the same Unit, then please tweak the current wording in the article that implies that they were.
 * Its tricky. There is no information on a counter terrorism unit during the Empire and New Republic, so I'm not sure when the change was made. I do know that during the Republic the Anti-Terrorism Unit existed and that by the GA the Anit-Terror Unit now performed those functions. What happened in between, no clue. With so much time in between and the two different names, I'm treating them as separate organizations. I've tweaked the wording to reflect that more accurately. Coruscantfan 22:27, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * But do we know that it was replaced? It sounds like this is another one of those "we don't know for sure either way" things. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:37, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL Sorta. We know that Anti-Terror replaced Anti-Terrorism and took over its functions. We just don't know when and under what circumstances because neither is mentioned during the Empire nor the New Republic. But yes, one replaced the other. Coruscantfan 00:01, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * More to come. In the meantime, please go through the article and make sure that everything is linked appropriately; I've already noticed quite a bit of underlinking in just the Responsibilities and Organization sections. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:17, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw you linked New Republic and Galactic Republic, those did link but they linked under the history section. Coruscantfan 22:27, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Everything is supposed to be linked once on its first mention in the article's main body, so skipping a link in one section and then linking it later in the article body is incorrect. Please relink the New Republic and Galactic Republic and adjust any other incorrect linking throughout the article. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:37, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had a conversation about that with Jedi Kasra and CC7567 a bit ago. I can't find where it states as a policy that linking has to be done at first mention. So I put linking where it would make the most sense. For example if I were reading the history section of the article and I wanted to know more about the Republic but had no quick link, I would have to go back to find one. I tried to make the linking as common sense as possible. CC told me that as long as I didn't put linking in the image boxes, I should be fine. I just have to be consistent throughout the article either way. Coruscantfan 00:01, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm actually going to dispute this one due to precedent. Pretty much every single other status article (at least in the past year or two, since we've started becoming stricter about article quality) has used this as a rule, and this has come up multiple times as an objection. Not only is it better for the reader to have everything linked on the first mention, it provides for a site-wide consistency. However, you're right in noting that we don't seem to have an official policy on this. I've gone ahead and started up a CT on it. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:23, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, well, I made the changes, but yes, it would be good to have a policy. Coruscantfan 20:14, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Another minor point

 * I'm not sure of the exact page reference for this, but I remember that in Order 66: A Republic Commando Novel, it states that CSF assault ships were deployed during the Battle of Coruscant in 19 BBY, to keep civilians away from the battle. This needs to be mentioned in the article. --Jinzler 18:05, September 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Coruscantfan 13:52, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Eyrezer, Mark II

 * In the Old Republic History section, you need to explain why the Jedi were not available to provide protection. --Eyrezer 10:35, October 24, 2010 (UTC)