Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Erisi Dlarit

Erisi Dlarit

 * Nominated by: — Hunter Kahn  14:54, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: A much hotter spy than this guy...

Support

 * 1) ToRsO bOy 13:16, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Jujiggum's prelims

 * Please use the Ref tag in the infobox. Let me know if you want help/aren't sure exactly how to do this.
 * Done. — Hunter Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * This remains. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed a few. I think I'm good now, unless I'm still missing something. — Hunter Kahn  01:43, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Context for Corran Horn in the intro.
 * Added. — Hunter Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * "At the New Republic recaptured Coruscant, Dlarit provided Horn's starfighter codes to Isard, which resulted in Horn's capture and imprisonment about the Lusankya." "At the New Republic recaptured Coruscant?" "About the Lusankya?" Huh?
 * Should've been "aboard". Dumb mistake on my part. — Hunter Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, but what about the "At?" This sounds like it should be "as." If you do mean to say "at," then there is a grammar mistake in the next part of the sentence. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The "at" has been changed to "when". — Hunter Kahn  01:43, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Dlarit helped slow down treatment of the disease by betraying a bacta convoy in the Alderaan system, which was subsequently destroyed by Warlord Zsinj." The Alderaan system was destroyed by Zsinj?
 * Teehee. Reworded. — Hunter Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember not to link subjects in picture or quote captions unless the subject does not appear anywhere else in the article. I got the first couple of these in my copy-edit, but please go through the rest of the article and fix the rest.
 * Got rid of the photo caption wikilinks. — Hunter Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Still some links remaining in some photo and quote captions. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I got them all now, but if I missed any, please feel free to point them out to me or drop the wikilink yourself. Thanks! — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  01:43, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * No article for her uncle?
 * He's not identified by name in the work. It's simply said that her uncle was a prominent investigator. I'm not really keen on the idea of an "Unidentified Erisi Dlarit uncle" article, but if you want, I'll make a stub of it and wikilink to it... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter whether or not he's identified by name, all that matters is that there is enough information for at least a small article, which it sounds like there is. I would suggest Erisi Dlart's uncle. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I made the article and linked it. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  01:43, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "&hellip;and a strong sense of superiority in those she considered below her social class." So she thought that those beings who were below her status in social class were superior? This doesn't make sense.
 * Changed from "in those" to "over those". — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * First sentence of the final paragraph in the "Early life" section: check your grammar.
 * Another dumb mistake: "loyalty" should have been "loyal". Fixed that and made a few other adjustments. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please add her species and gender to at least the body, if not both the body and the intro.
 * They were already in the intro, but I added it to the first sentence of the body as well. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh, I'm not seeing anything in the intro that identifies her as a Human female. :P Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:36, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue reviewing the article once you address these. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 01:47, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember not to punctuate image captions unless the caption is a full sentence.
 * Ok, I think I fixed all the ones that shouldn't have been punctuated. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Dlarit underwent countless hours of X-wing simulator training to prepare for the assignment." "Countless" hours? That sounds POV/speculative.
 * Changed to "many". — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please check your grammar in the last sentence of the first paragraph of "Assignment to Rogue Squadron"
 * Reworded. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the "Assignment to Rogue Squadron" section, please avoid using so many direct quotes from her. Try paraphrasing them yourself. Also, some of that stuff about Jace probably belongs more in the P&T than in the bio.
 * Scaled this back a bit and removed the quotes. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * This remains; I don't see how most of that info is relevant to anything but the P&T. Also, you still say "haughty and obstreperous", only you've removed the quotes from around them. This is not allowed; please either reword (and move to P&T, where it would probably better fit) or remove. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:38, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wanted to have a mention of Jace here so there would be some context when she ultimately betrays him. Most of it is unnecessary though, so I've eliminated everything except the fact that Jace was added to the squadron to appease Zaltin, and I moved that up to the previous paragraph (where the political stuff is discussed). Let me know if that works. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  01:23, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine to mention Jace&mdash;I wasn't saying you shouldn't do that. I was saying that all the info concerning Dlarit's personality (i.e. her feelings on Jace etc.) belongs in the P&T. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 04:08, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just removed it from the article altogether. Do you think it's important enough for the P&T section that I should readd it there? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  14:00, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * It would probably be best to put it in the P&T, since it regards an aspect of her personality that you've not yet covered there. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:04, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * "as Dlarit and Ynr outwardly appeared to get along very well." Wait, so did they not get along well privately, just outwardly? Also: "appeared to get along well?" Why the speculation here? Did they or didn't they?
 * It's hard to say, since Erisi was a spy during this whole period. She could have been pretending to get along great with Ynr, but secretly hated her guts. In fact, her spy status made everything pre-Bacta War sort of difficult to write, and when it was questionable I usually included something like "outwardly" or "apparently" just to play it safe... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can't say anything for sure, then don't say it. Just go with what you do know for sure from the source, but do not speculate on the matter. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:38, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't a matter of writing "What happened to him remains unknown" or "He was probably a member of this and that". The problem here is that in three out of the four books Erisi Dlarit appeared in, she was acting as a spy. By the time the third one ends, it's revealed that Erisi was lying throughout the entire time Rogue Squadron knew her. Since everything she did during that time was a lie, it's not mere speculation for me to say that the way she got along with Ynr may have been an act, is it? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  01:08, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is precisely my point. We don't know. And speculating is against the rules. If we don't know what happened, then don't try to guess at what happened. I'll say one last time: speculation does not belong in the Wook's articles. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 04:08, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, it wasn't speculation, merely the pointing out that something may or may not have been true. (I didn't draw a conclusion based on my own speculation, just pointed out it's impossible to know one way or the other.) But, as per below, I've removed the reference, so it's a moot point. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  14:00, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * From WP:ATT (this is the third time I've linked it now; please read it) itself: "Original research is material that cannot be attributed to a reliable source." So if you can't say anything without using speculative words such as "apparently" or "maybe," then don't say it: it is speculation by its very definition. Now, another thing you don't seem to understand is that you're free to keep the information in here, as long as you can word it so that it isn't speculation. I realize that this is very difficult when you don't know for sure what her motivations/feelings were, but it can be done. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:04, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've read the policy, and I'm very aware of the concepts of verifiability, attribution, OR, etc. I still don't agree with the interpretation here, but I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree, and I'm completely willing to agree to your objections here. I've recently combed through the article and I believe I've removed all the references. Are there any left that I've missed? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  16:51, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * "although the arrogance she displayed while not undercover suggests that modesty may have been an act" Tense shifting, plus this is written completely OOU.
 * See below. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * See below. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:38, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "During this time, Dlarit appeared to develop a romantic interest in Horn, although it is impossible to tell how genuine her affections were given her status as a spy." Same as above. Tense shifting plus OOU writing and speculation.
 * In both of these cases I don't think this is OOU writing or speculative. We know she was a spy during this period, but we don't know what her internal thoughts were at the time. Therefore, it's impossible to say whether some of her statements and feelings at the time (i.e., her romantic feelings for Corran, her modesty among Rogue Squadron) were genuine or an act as part of being a spy. For us to write that it's impossible to know some of these things for sure isn't speculation, it's simply a statement of fact. (I'm also not sure I think this is a tense shift either. Isn't "...the arrogance she displayed suggests that..." more correct that "...the arrogance she displayed suggested that..."?) Anyway, what do you think? Or how would you suggest I word it instead? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:04, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * The tense is a problem; any usage of the present tense ("suggests;" "it is impossible to tell") in the midst of what is supposed to be IU prose is not allowed. And yes, what you have written is by its very definition OOU. For example, "it is impossible to tell&hellip;" Just because it is impossible for us to tell does not mean it was impossible for beings who lived IU to tell and it does not mean that not one person who lived IU didn't know; here you have placed in the prose an OOU perspective. And "suggests that modesty may have been an act&hellip;" is more speculation and OOU writing; you are acknowledging an uncertainty from an out-of-universe perspective, which is not allowed. Please fix these and go through the article and make sure that there are no other such instances. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:38, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is the same issue as above. I'm not acknowledging an uncertainty from an OOU perspective, but rather one from an in-universe perspective. Nobody in the New Republic or within the Star Wars universe could determine how genuine her feelings were because she was a spy. If I go through this article and eliminate all these things (so it reflects, for example, that Erisi and Ynr got along great or that Dlarit had feelings for Corran, the article will actually be less accurate because these are things nobody within the SWU really knew for sure... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  01:08, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't nearly so complicated as you make it out to be. If the source says something concretely, you can add it in. If it doesn't, then you can't. To speak about Erisi from a perspective that takes on the present tense and the point of view of the reader of the source rather than an IU POV is wrong. To say "it is impossible to tell" is not only complete speculation (after all, I bet she knew what her feelings and motivations were, regardless of whether or not we do, and that means that yes, someone in the SW universe did know), but is also OOU and shifts quite clearly into the present tense, both of which are strictly forbidden, as I have already explained to you above. This is not a matter of debate; this is a simple, straightforward rule that you are completely disregarding. These objections will remain here until you decide to fix them. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 04:08, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've gone through the article and, I believe, have removed any such reference to this type of thing. I do feel, however, that the article is now far worse off than it was before. (No offense intended to you personally, of course.) Now, among other things, it states definitively that she got along with Ynr, had feelings for Horn, cared about civilians, felt relieved when Horn saved her, etc. etc. All of this is likely not true at all, but if I'm limited from describing the duplicitousness that comes with her spy status, it has to be presented as fact. I still feel it wasn't OOU in the first place, but if this is the way it's got to be, then I'm fine with it. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  14:00, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how you don't see that it was OOU. Maybe you still aren't understanding the definition of OOU? From the MOS: IU articles "will be written as though the author (that means us) existed within the Star Wars universe." To say that it is impossible to tell is not true. Even if it was just Erisi, then someone in the Star Wars universe knew. So to say that no one knew is to take our perspective&mdash;the OOU one. Furthermore, regardless of whether or not it's OOU, it is also speculation. Did the source say that it was impossible for anyone to tell? No? Then there is a chance that Erisi or someone else knew, and we can't say for certain that it was impossible to tell. Using the present tense is not allowed. Using a perspective that is not completely IU omniscient is not allowed. If we don't know something, you are not allowed to guess at it. These are some basic rules of the Wook, and they are not that difficult to understand. You can keep certain information in the article, you just need to word it in accordance with these rules.  Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:04, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said above, I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree with you here, and I'm completely willing to agree to your objections here. I've recently combed through the article and I believe I've removed all the references. Are there any left that I've missed? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  16:51, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Another thing that might be beneficial if you are still concerned is to write a BTS note saying that her true feelings on some things are difficult to discern considering her status as a spy. Remember that the BTS is the only part of the article where you are allowed to make such OOU statements. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:09, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * After going through the article to remove the questionable parts, it seems to me that it reads better than I expected, so I'm not sure the BTS note is needed. If you think it is, I'll do it, but I'm happy without it. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:24, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * More to come once these are addressed. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:47, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Some context for Gavin Darklighter and Andoorni Hui&mdash;I'm pretty sure they're Rogue pilots here, but it wouldn't hurt to say "fellow Rogue Squadron pilots Gavin Darklighter and Andoorni Hui&hellip;"
 * Done. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * A little context for Warden Squadron, please. (Even just saying "Y-wing squadron" would be enough)
 * Added "Y-wing squad" — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * "It was feared&hellip;" Feared by whom?
 * Clarified. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Dlarit and most of her colleagues remained unaware even of the names of the planet, let alone any details." Do you mean "name," not "names?" And if you mean "names," do you mean they weren't aware of "Blackmoon" either? And if not, you've pretty much already stated this above; maybe just say that they still remained unaware that the planet was Borleias.
 * I meant "name", not "names". I fixed that, but I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understood your other suggestion. Could you perhaps do it yourself and I'll take a look at it? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, it reads fine now. :) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 13:15, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * "or anyone else&hellip;" Not technically correct since Jace and a few select others probably knew. Would it be better to say "or the New Republic?" Or did some of the Republic higher-ups know, too? If that's the case, then I'd just leave it at Dlarit, because the rest of the paragraph pretty much explains that the majority of beings in the galaxy didn't know.
 * Changed to "or the New Republic", which is accurate. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, could you explain Jace's motives before saying that he had intended to destroy his fighter himself and fake his death? I think it might flow better that way and make more sense to the reader.
 * Does this work? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry that I'm having to do this review in bits and pieces; I haven't had a whole lot of time on my hands recently to sit down and do the whole thing at once. :P Anyway, I'll continue with "The Liberation of Coruscant" once these are done. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:38, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem at all. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  12:09, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * "The Battle of Mrisst ended a victory for New Republic with no casualties." Some missing words here? :P
 * hehe Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You use the $ symbol; does Wedge's Gamble actually say "dollars?" If it says credits, use the Cr template.
 * Should've been credits. Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does the novel say this? "This was likely a tremor or his Force-sensitivity, which unbeknownst to him often served to heighten his instincts."
 * Ehh, it's strongly hinted at, but yeah, I'm reaching a bit here. Removed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I think a more appropriate quote could be chosen for the "Recapturing Coruscant" section; maybe something that somewhat details the Rogue mission?
 * I tried a new one. Let me know what you think. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do we have an article for the stormtrooper raid on the Alien Combine?
 * Seems not. Think its worth my making one, as I did with Erisi's uncle? Will do so tomorrow or so if yes... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would probably be best: how's Raid on the Alien Combine sound? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 16:43, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I made a stub of the page and wikilinked to it. I'll improve the Raid on the Alien Combine page later on, as right now it's pretty weak, but it's a start at least. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You currently link "Krytos virus" to wikipedia&mdash;but the link doesn't lead anywhere, that article has been deleted. Either way, please don't link to wikipedia articles in the main body; in IU articles, we only link to wikipedia in the BTS. If something needs to be linked in the main body, then we should have an article on it here (which I believe we do for the Krytos virus).
 * It's really bizarre that the Krytos link is linked to Wikipedia, I have no idea why that is, nor do I remember doing it. (I actually did the Krytos virus FA myself too! lol) Anyway, fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha :P Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 16:43, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * A little context is in order for Asyr Sei'lar and Inyri Forge.
 * Added simply that they are new pilots in the squadron. Let me know if more is needed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  16:15, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The first time you mention the Lusankya prison, you italicize "Lusankya." However, the subsequent times you mentioned the prison you did not. I went ahead and italicized these mentions during my copy-edit, but please double-check the novel that, when referring to the prison and not the ship, the "Lusankya" is still supposed to be italicized.
 * It appears in the novel, it is not italicized when it is referred to as a prison, and is only italicized after it is revealed to be a ship. I've changed the references in the article accordingly. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  16:15, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Dlarit saw this and realized&hellip;" Do you mean she saw the Lusankya rising up into orbit? Or do you mean she "saw" the situation how Isard did (i.e. she saw that, due to Horn's escape, the truth that she was spy would be exposed)?
 * I meant more literally, saw the ship escaping. Clarified. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue with "Imperial service at the Bacta War." Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 13:15, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Unlike many&hellip;" Many who? Imperials? New Republicans?
 * Imperials. Clarified. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Dlarit seemed to have little fear of Isard" Why the uncertainty here? Did she or didn't she? If we don't know, it would probably be best to just say that she didn't show any fear of her.
 * Just poor wording on my part. Dropped the "showed". — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Unlike many, Dlarit seemed to have little fear of Isard, and at times Dlarit's strong personality and Isard's sense of superiority caused the two to clash. She openly questioned Isard's decisions, argued against her and, occasionally, even spoke to her in a sarcastic and insulting manner when challenged." This section would probably fit better in the P&T. You could probably leave a bit about how she clashed with Isard in the bio, but you don't need to go into such detail there.
 * Good call. I made the switch, let me know if that works. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Isard lobbied for her squadrons to be equipped with X-wing fighters, which Dlarit insisted her superior fighters to the TIE Interceptors." Huh? Wording's not making sense here&hellip;
 * It should've been "were superior", not "her superior". Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't you mean Dlarit lobbied for them? I thought Isard was against them. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 04:17, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh. Right. lol. Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  13:06, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * The "true Empire"? What do you mean here? I thought she was working for the Empire. Is there more than one, now?
 * This sentence indicates the "true" Imperials looked down on the Thyferran Home Defense Corps. As the second paragraph of this section states, the THDC were "a defense organization of Xucphra volunteers established to work in conjunction with the ground-based stormtroopers to defend the planet". Thus, they are not really the "true Empire", but rather an independent organization working with the Empire. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "To make matters worse&hellip;" is POV wording. However, it wouldn't be POV if you said "to make matters worse for Dlarit&hellip;"
 * Done. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue with "Bombardment of Halanit colony." Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 16:43, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Internally, she acknowledged the civilians were unarmed and defenseless, and those who survived the initial onslaught would later starve or freeze to death on the icy world. However, Dlarit harbored no feelings of guilt or compassion for them, and justified her lack of mercy with the thought that the colonists should have left Halanit once they recognized they were so poor they could no longer afford bacta from the Thyferrans." More P&Tish stuff here, I believe.
 * I sort of repeat myself here with stuff already in P&T anyway. Dropped most of this, although I did want to include a bit about how she showed no compassion for them, so hopefully what is left there is OK. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  02:27, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there any way you could shorten the caption on the image of Vorru?
 * Done. Let me know if it needs more. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  02:27, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * "possibly sparing her from execution at Isard's hands" Possibly? Why the uncertainty?
 * Vorru believed Dlarit was on the verge of executing Isard, but didn't know for sure. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  02:27, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is another one of those wording things. Technically, saying "possibly" is speculative (even though we don't know for sure) because for all we know Isard knew whether or not she would have executed Dlarit. Check out the wording tweak I made here to avoid the speculative tone. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 16:35, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * "appeared to win him Dlarit's favor" Appeared to? More uncertainty. :P
 * hehe I think this stems from my real-life profession as a reporter. We always have to use words like "allegedly" and "reportedly" as part of the job. Here, however, I've removed the uncertainty. :D — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  02:27, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha yeah, that's understandable. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 16:35, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue with "Battle of Thyferra and death" as soon as I have time. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk )
 * "However, the information leaked to Isard about the Rogue base proved to be a trap, resulting in the surrender of the Virulence and the loss of Lusankya's starfighter compliment." Wording is slightly confusing. Was the info the trap or was the Rogue base the trap?
 * I tried to clarify. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:01, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * "During the battle, Ysanne Isard appeared to have fled Thyferra on the shuttle Thyfonian, and she ordered Dlarit and Elite Squadron to cover her until the ship could escape into hyperspace." Appeared to? Did she or didn't she? Another one of those reporter things, I believe. :P
 * Hehe. Well, in this case, it's because the Rogues believed she was on the shuttle and subsequently died, but it was later revealed she in fact did not. I tweaked the wording, but can tweak it further if need be. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:01, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No quote for the Legacy section? Nothing said by Corran or anybody else regarding her after her death?
 * I think I found one that works. Let me know. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:12, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * "the only Imperial success that can be attributed to Dlarit during her time with the squadron is the betrayal of the bacta convoy to Warlord Zsinj at the Graveyard of Alderaan." Dose any source actually say this? Also, check that "can be"&mdash;it's present tense and also uncertain. Was it attributed to her or not?
 * The source for this is "The Bacta War", in which Winter explicitly states that Dlarit didn't provide any useful intelligence except the betrayal of Jace and Horn, and the betrayal of this bacta convoy. That same source novel later states that Jace in fact survived, and that Horn escapes imprisonment despite Isard's best intentions. So based on that, I felt the source reflected it. Changed the tense though. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  18:01, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, that works then. :) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 18:07, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * "This slowed down treatment of the Krytos virus on Coruscant and, presumably, cost more alien lives than would have otherwise been lost." Speculation; even though it's very likely, it's still not certain. If you're not certain whether or not something counts as speculation, remember that the use of "presumably" is a big give-away
 * You're right. I've eliminated this. However, in looking back at the Krytos Trap novel to make sure this wasn't mentioned somewhere, I found something I had forgotten to add: that Dlarit's betrayal of the bacta convoy to Zsinj and his subsequent destruction of that convoy led directly to the formation of Han Solo's task force. Please take a look at what I added and make sure it works for you. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:08, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Her role during the Bacta War, however, resulted in a greater long-term impact for a much wider range of people." Does a source say this, or is this a deduction you've made from the books?
 * It indicates that the bacta war has a big impact on lots of residents across the galaxy due to the Bacta War and all, but I guess it doesn't necessarily say it the way I've written it. Take a look at how I've reworded it and let me know if it works. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:08, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Better, but I have a question: is " Dlarit's actions during the Bacta War had a major long-term impact on a wide range of people throughout the galaxy" referring to the subsequent sentence? I mean is the Thyferra thing mentioned in the next sentence what you're referring to here as the long-term impact on a wide range of people? If so, could you combine these sentences or somehow make them connect better? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:00, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I see what you are asking, and I've tried to combine the sentences. Let me know what you think. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  20:53, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * This reads better, but I have one more question: "had a tremendous impact on the distribution of bacta across the galaxy and had a major long-term effect to millions of people." What, precisely, was this tremendous impact? What exactly was the major long-term effect? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 21:25, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't really say. I can imagine a number of probabilities, such as people not getting bacta, bacta prices going through the roof, people being forced to obey the Empire in exchange for bacta, etc etc. But wouldn't want to speculate in the article itself... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  04:33, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please avoid the use of parentheses in articles as much as possible. Commas and mdash;s are much preferred.
 * Agreed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:08, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Isard's conquest "would have had a tremendous impact on the distribution of bacta across the galaxy." Does the source say this?
 * Yeah, although my wording is crappy. As per the above change, this is gone now. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:08, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Much of the Legacy section (though not all of it) seems to simply recount the effects of some of her actions during her life; really it only needs to recount the effects of her actions after her life, such as Crespin's reluctance to form the Wraiths. The other direct results of her actions while she was still alive can mostly go in the main part of the bio.
 * I've dropped the references to the Battle of Halanit, which I think you're right, was basically just a straight up repetition of stuff already featured in the article. I felt like most of the rest was phrased in a way to emphasize the impact after her death. However, if you feel more needs to be eliminated here, I'm perfectly willing to do it, if you could give me a bit more guidance? Or if you want to cut stuff yourself, I'm OK with that too... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  03:08, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue with the P&T. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:03, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you detail a bit more about her being a spy in the P&T? In other words, could you detail (at least a little bit) the traits she showed in being a spy?
 * I have this under "Talents and abilities" at the moment. Personally, I believe that's where it belongs, as her prowess as a spy speaks more to her abilities than her personality... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  15:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Facepalm. :P Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, please add any particular skills she may have possessed to the P&T. Her piloting and aptitude as a spy, of course, as well as anything else the novels may have mentioned.
 * Ditto, this is currently under talents and abilities. Starfighter piloting is a talent, after all, no? :D — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  15:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Facepalm (againn). Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe a mention of how she claimed she was not the best of Rogue Squadron's pilots?
 * It's in the T&A description of her piloting skills. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  15:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Facepalm (again). Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also maybe mention her desires of revenge for the raid on the Dlarit estate?
 * Added. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  15:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * What about how she would have hated her un-explosive death?
 * Personally, I feel like this would be speculative. It's Corran Horn who believes that she would have cared about that, for all we know Erisi wouldn't have given a fig about whether she died in a spectacular fashion or not. I suppose I could add that Horn thought she wouldn't have liked it, and I will if you want me too, but I don't really think it's necessary... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  15:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Usually, in cases like this, we would make a note saying something along the lines of "Corran Horn believed she would have hated her death because&hellip;" Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I moved the reference I had at the end of the "Death" section into P&T. I thought it would be redundant to have it in both spots, but I can restore if it you like.
 * What about how she began to see Isard as insane?
 * Not to be difficult, but I'm not really sure what this has to do with her personality or traits. Simply that she was observant enough to recognize that Isard was growing insane? Or something more? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  15:44, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, was Isard actually growing insane? You don't really say so either way in the body, just that Dlarit and Fliry thought so. If she actually was, then yes, it would be fair to say that Dlarit deduced Isard's insanity and did such-and-such about it. If she wasn't, or if no source actually says for certain either way, then you can just say that from such-and-such observations, Dlarit came to believe that Isard was insane. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:59, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's ever really been clarified if she was going insane, or if it was just her normal bloodthirsty personality getting worse and worse. I've added it, but I tried to work it in a way that flowed with the description of her intelligence. Let me know if it works. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  16:43, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Beautifully. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 19:36, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll continue with the Relationships subsection. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 14:12, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please kill those parentheses.
 * Done. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "possibly saving her life, and seemingly earning some degree of Dlarit's trust" Please check the uncertainties here.
 * Dropped the "seemingly". I put "possibly" here for the same reason as "potential execution at Isard's hands" earlier in the article, for the same rationale I explained above. Do you think it should stay here too? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work for the same reason as the other "possibly"s don't. Potentially works better, because it is an IU perspective. Possibly is OOU; it is acknowledging that we don't know and then saying that in the article. Remember that articles are completely IU-perspective, and just because we don't know something doesn't mean that people IU didn't know. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Vorru developed an unexpected" Unexpected by whom? By Vorru himself? By Dlarit? Or by us? Remember, if it's by us, it has to go, because that's an OOU perspective.
 * I thought it was clear enough in the prose already that the unexpectedness was on Vorru's part. I've reworded it a bit to make it clearer, although I fear the new prose might be a tiny bit strained...
 * It's fine now. That was one of those wording things that it sounded more like it was "unexpected" from the narrator's POV. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Additionally, Dlarit was an extremely intelligent and observant woman, as demonstrated by her correct deduction that the Rogue Squadron base was likely at Yag-prime." Not sure how this is being observant&mdash;observent includes making observations, so unless she observed the base&hellip;
 * Changed to "shrewd" instead of observant... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there a source that says that Isard was the most notable being in the Empire to be blinded by Imperial superiority?
 * Come on, really?? lol. I've reworded this. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that we think she is notable, but once more, that is OOU, because (last time I checked, anyway) we are OOU. So unless something IU says she is notable, then really, you can't have that in there. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Dlarit could stay more pragmatic" Just one of those wording things: this sounds like she had the ability to stay more pragmatic but we don't know if she did or not. Please tweak.
 * This time, I didn't mean it that way, but yeah, the wording is a bit weak. But I have reworded it. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Additionally, Dlarit was an extremely intelligent and observant woman. This was demonstrated by her correct deduction that the Rogue Squadron base was likely at Yag-prime. While some in the Empire, most notably Ysanne Isard herself, were blinded by their beliefs in Imperial superiority, Dlarit could stay more pragmatic, like when she realized that X-wing starfighters had benefits that TIE Interceptors did not tried to persuade Isard to start using them" This all sounds like it's more personality-related than it is a particular skillset.
 * I thought this spoke more to her intelligence, which felt more like "abilities" than "personality". — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * But it's a personality set&mdash;you're referring to shrewdness here, and to her pragmatism. Those are definitely personalities. The T&A is usually reserved for specific skill sets such as tracking, piloting, sharpshooting, etc. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Also unlike Isard, Dlarit did not underestimate her enemies: she recognized the threat Wedge Antilles presented in a way Isard did not, and she recognized the need to avoid a head-to-head fight again Horn due to his superior piloting abilities." This also sounds more P&T related. Check the last sentence of this paragraph for placement, too; I think it would also fit better in the P&T.
 * Same as above, felt more appropriate for "abilities" to me. If you feel strongly, though, let me know and I'll move it. I guess I don't care where it is, as long as its there somewhere. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty much same as above. Not underestimating people is more of a personality decision than a particular skill. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "despite this apparent self-control" Hmm, more uncertainty here. Was it self conrol or not?
 * Oh it's self control all right! :D Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "as demonstrated by the passion she showed around Horn melting immediately away to cold hostility toward Mirax Terrik the moment they were alone together." I'm not quite sure how this is in spite of her having self-control. How do we know she didn't intend for herself to do this? If she was able to feign some emotions, why not others?
 * Dropped the self control thing altogether. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the BTS: "most especially" Most especially in whose opinion? Do you have a source for this?
 * I thought the books themselves were a sufficient enough source for this. She's simply featured in the book far more often in The Bacta War than in any of the other three. Again, I don't feel strongly on this one, and don't mind eliminating the "most especially" wording if you feel strongly. But I didn't think I needed a source to point that out, any more than I needed an independent source to say that she was in the book in the first place... — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the problem here is mainly the word choice. "Most especially" does not have the same meaning/connotation as something more along the lines of "most extensively," which I think is what you mean here. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "To date, she has not been featured in a work by any other author." I believe she's appeared in several sources that were not written by Mr. Stackpole, has she not?
 * Not to my knowledge? If so, please let me know, as I will have to add that content to the article! Unless you are referring to references that have been made to her in other books and magazines or something? But that wouldn't mean she was "featured in a work", would it? — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm pretty sure that Mr. Stackpole didn't write all of those sources under the source list in the article. :P Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 22:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Woo! Got through the first review. I'll give the whole enchilada one more go once these are done. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 13:55, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks much! — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  22:00, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

ToRsO's thoughts
Intro Bio
 * "Dlarit became spy for Imperial Intelligence Director Ysanne Isard". Became spy? And I believe at that point in time Isard was no longer the director of Imperial Intelligence.
 * I believe she was still director at this point, since everyone still referred to her as "Madam Director". But I've changed it anyway.
 * "At the New Republic recaptured Coruscant," Shouldn't it start with When?
 * Context for Krytos virus.
 * Context for Lusankya.
 * Context for Fliry Vorru.
 * I'll get to the rest later. ToRsO bOy 23:50, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I've addressed them all so far. Thanks! — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  05:34, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * "saw their first action at the Battle of Hensara at Hensara III." Can you reword this? It sounds a bit redundant.
 * I just removed the reference to Hensara III, since the phrase" Battle of Hensara" covers the location already. Let me know if that works. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  13:06, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Wedge Antilles and his Rogue Squadron pilots resigned from the New Republic to launch a private assault against Isard," They launched more than one assault against Isard. Either change it to attacks or war, or something suitable.
 * Changed to war. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  13:06, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "From the beginning of the Bacta War, Isard lobbied for her squadrons to be equipped with X-wing fighters, which Dlarit insisted were superior fighters to the TIE Interceptors" I believe you've switched the two ladies. :)
 * Oops. lol. Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  13:06, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Horn developed a strong disgust for Dlarit, and a large part of his decision to defect from New Republic to fight Ysanne Isard" Horn didn't defect, he resigned. --ToRsO bOy 05:38, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  13:06, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great article. ToRsO bOy 13:16, September 21, 2010 (UTC)