Talk:Ben Solo

Powers and abilities
Gonna throw this out there: Ren is strong in the force, strong enough to brute force his way to results against non-force users, but is not very skilled at all. He has to work pretty hard to interrogate Poe, is completely unable to break the untrained Rey, and is wounded in a light saber duel with a non-force user. He screws up everything in the movie requiring skill, or finesse, or even a little forethought. Anyway, long story short, Kenobi taught Luke to deflect blaster fire within a few days, and that's basically the only light saber skill we see Ren get right. I don't think "skilled" is the best way to describe any of his force powers or dueling abilities. 69.47.236.32 15:07, December 20, 2015 (UTC)

He
This might seem really stupid and nit-picky, especially coming from me, but shouldn't this character be gender neutral as of now? Even with a voice over, we don't specifically know if this is a female or male character (Okay, someone might know, but source it then). Regardless of what we know is coming (Or don't know), I'm just wondering aloud and suggesting. I suppose I'll just make the changes, but if someone wants to fix it or what have you, go ahead with a source, I suppose. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:02, December 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * I intended to do that, but a "his" slipped in there. Thank you for correcting that. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 23:04, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

Sith or at least dark sided
Would it be a stretch to say that he or she is a dark side individual, because no jedi uses red like ever.--71.86.95.26 22:52, December 7, 2014 (UTC)[Tacolyte3]71.86.95.26 22:52, December 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Common sense says that you will be right, sure, but we can only add what we can source, and we don't know who this character is yet. We've never seen a Jedi use red before, but maybe they do after Return of the Jedi? (I know I would write a Jedi with a red lightsaber if it were up to me.) So until we know for sure, we can't say that this person is a dark sider. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 22:55, December 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm. What about the fact that as this guy appears, a voiceover is heard saying "the dark side." Or is that too out-of-universe? ProfessorTofty (talk) 00:58, December 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Too much of an assumption. The narrator says "There's been an awakening. Have you felt it?" right before John Boyega pops up. Does that mean he just woke up? =P - Brandon Rhea (talk) 01:01, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

Lightsaber link
Could we please hyper link this in as his lightsaber - will make it easier for people trying to find out what kind of weapon it is rather than just a lightsaber. I think it is safe to say that while many of us are aware of the crossguard existing in the universe before there will be a good number of people who are unaware of it's existence prior to episode VIII.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crossguard_lightsaber --121.98.142.86 01:44, December 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's a Legends page, so it doesn't apply to a canon page. However, Kylo Ren's lightsaber is indeed linked to on the page. It's hyperlinked on "special design." I've changed where the link appears, though, in order to make this clearer. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 01:56, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

That this is a crossguard lightsaber is just speculation, there are more than this theory, for example (instable lightsaber crystal/valve) so please do wait until you have facts until you state something.

Ren's Mask
Is it just me, or does anyone else see a resemblance between Kylo Ren and Darth Revan; Dark cloak, red light-saber, similar Mandalorian style mask. It is too speculative to suggest that Ren's using Revan's old mask, and add this to the article? --501st scout (talk) 15:04, April 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * KOTOR does not exist in Disney Wars, so no, we would not add that to this article. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 15:23, April 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, the people working on the reboot stated that while the Expanded Universe is not cannon, they're going to use it as an inspiration. This could just be a nod to KOTOR though. ChildofKyne (talk) 20:51, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Affiliation
While I think it is likely that Kylo Ren is affiliated with the First Order, isn't it still speculation at this point? I think the only evidence towards this would be him and First Order Stormtroopers in the same shot, but there could be a lot of ways that could play that don't require him to be a affiliated with the organization.--CptSteam (talk) 16:39, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Do we see him fighting with the First Order? Or do we see him fighting in the vicinity of the First Order? If one saw Anakin Skywalker fighting battle droids on Mustafar totally out of context before Revenge of the Sith was released, wouldn't one assume he was fighting for the Republic? Save your speculation for places like Reddit, which is where, incidentally, that wiki "sources" its information. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 21:25, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * No longer following today, IGN released some information on him. http://www.ign.com/wikis/star-wars/Kylo_Ren Nicktc 18:59, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * A user-created wiki is not an appropriate or official source of canon information. It is still speculation.--CptSteam (talk) 20:37, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * IGN was considered Canon before on this wiki. Nicktc 20:41, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * IGN is not a "user-created wiki," it is a news network. No reason why it should not be treated as legitimate information&mdash;with the caveat that verification from an official source is better. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 20:44, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * IGN also has a wiki, and that's what was linked to. If it was a news story, that'd be different. That being said, I think removing First Order on the grounds of "it's still speculation" is pretty silly considering we see him fighting for the First Order in the trailer. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 21:06, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * It may be nit-picky, but I prefer to not state what we can't source. For all we know those two shots in the trailer could be Rylo leading renegade Stormtroopers against the First Order. Unlikely, but the point is we don't know.--CptSteam (talk) 21:16, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. IGN is blocked by my work's internet filter, which is where I was posting from earlier today. Didn't realize. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 23:17, April 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * Another point still is, the IGN wiki has been considered before, so why not now? Nicktc 07:49, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * IGN news stories are considered, not the wiki. Besides, the wiki page in question is full of questions, of "possibly" and "unknown." --LelalMekha (talk) 07:57, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I citate, 'the IGN wiki has been considered before'. Nicktc 10:46, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * You may be quoting alright, but you seem to be quoting yourself. The only thing it proves is that you agree with yourself. --LelalMekha (talk) 10:58, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll citate us both, then. IGN news stories' are considered, not the wiki', 'the IGN wiki has been considered before'. You should understand my point now. Nicktc 11:01, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I sure don't. IGN news articles are worthy of news citation. A wiki, regardless of its owner, is a platform that anyone can edit, and is therefore not a valid source of information. IGN has both platforms, but only the news articles are a valid source. What part of this is it that's unclear? &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 14:31, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you got the information from that it was not clear, given that it was clear, which you would understand if you'd understand my point. Information on this wiki has come from the IGN wiki before, that is my point. Nicktc 15:29, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then whoever added it was wrong to do so. IGN wiki is not a valid source. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 15:32, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Major Spoilers? Really?!
Everyone who saw the trailer(s) already knows the stuff that's written on the page, so it's not a spoiler (not to mention that the info provided isn't all that important to the story anyway, I mean, it's just what he wears and the saber he uses...)--Lucasart don't care about their fans 06:03, April 29, 2015 (UTC) I know I'm late to the party, but wanted to support Brandon's point. A friend of mine will watch no trailers, read no articles, and hear no character names until she enters the theater this December. I can't even discuss my guesses with or around her. Some people are VERY spoiler sensitive and the spoiler tag should remain on this article until *at least* a month or so after release. What is the official length of time after a release that the wiki leaves up spoiler tags? 198.82.156.130 16:12, October 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Who says everyone saw the trailer? Fact is, everything in this page - no matter how vague - is a spoiler. There are different sensitivities towards spoilers, and we're not just going to cater to the people who watch trailers and are more OK with spoilers. We mark it clearly so everyone can be comfortable if they encounter the page. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 06:11, April 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * We leave spoiler tags up for 30 days. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 16:21, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

Infobox image
Because images from the Vanity Fair photo shoot keep being added, and I disagree with that, I figured I'd outline my case on this talk page - the key page in all of this - to see what others have to say:


 * 1) Vanity Fair photo shoots do not necessarily reflect the events of the film. Do we know that Kylo Ren is going to take his mask off in The Force Awakens? Not officially, no. Some of you may recall, back before Episode I, that there was a promotional image from a very similar Vanity Fair photo shoot that showed Obi-Wan Kenobi fighting Darth Maul on Tatooine. Clearly, that never happened. That image was not reflective of the film. It was a staged photo shoot for the magazine. Maz Kanata's castle utilizes the relevant image better by specifically calling it a behind the scenes photo.
 * 2) We have to consider what readers are looking for when they come here. If people are searching for the guy in the trailer wearing a mask, they’re going to want to learn more about Kylo Ren. Vanity Fair is the only set of photos that shows him without a mask on. The average person is going to want to know they've found the guy with the mask and the crossguard lightsaber. The previous image instantly reflects that, and I think it's better for readers.

What do others think about this? - Brandon Rhea (talk) 19:57, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, we don't even know if Kylo Ren looks like Adam Driver canonically. It's like sticking an on-set picture of Dave Prowse in Vader's article if we had been around in '76. --Alientraveller (talk) 20:12, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Wording of last sentence in biography
"Ren desired the destruction of the Resistance, an organization that opposed the First Order, and the Jedi." it sounds like the resistance wants the destruction of the jedi too. This could be misleading. Skywalker2255 (talk) 13:23, September 17, 2015 (UTC)

Human
When we were treated to that photo of an unmasked Kylo Ren, I thought it was a given that he was a human, yet this article seems to be species neutral. Are we being a little too cautious here? --Effect 05:46, September 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure, but the article is actually still listed in the "Humans" category. I'm actually going to go ahead and remove that for now until this is hashed out, given that it isn't listed anywhere else in the article. I'm not saying I disagree with you, to be sure, I just think we need to be consistent. ProfessorTofty (talk) 06:11, September 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Now, given that Kylo Ren was seen in the new trailer (albeit from the back) without his helmet on, it seems to be confirmed that Kylo Ren is Human. He's shown in photos without his mask on, played by Adam Driver. In the trailer, he's attacking Finn with his hair flowing behind him. It seems like the obvious choice to add this now, or am I wrong? --Effect 06:03, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

I would agree. There is no evidence to suggest that he isn't human. Skywalker2255 (talk) 06:06, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

SPOILER WARNING: Kylo Ren is entirely human. Both of his parents are human, and one of them is Force-sensitive. LuciaMoore (talk) 21:42, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Birth date
Where does it say that he was born two years before the Battle of Endor? Unless I`m mistaken it`s not in the article that is cited.--Wipein (talk) 21:43, September 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that we should not assume he was born after the battle of Endor, but the cited article does reads "that dark lord of the Sith [Vader] who met his demise long before Ren’s birth" I think the author of the article wrote that, assuming Kylo Ren is young based on Adam Driver's young look. Which still doesn't make that much sense, since Adam Driver is almost 32, and isn't Star Wars VII supposed to take place about 30 years after Battle of Endor? Also, we cannot assume a Sith's age based on the portraying actor. The Force can greatly influence the aging process, make people appear much younger or older than they actually are. --Kaliam (talk) 21:13, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * The source says that he was born after Vader's demise, which was during the Battle of Endor, so unless another source overrides that then it is accurate to say he was born after the Battle of Endor. The EW article was part of a major PR push by Lucasfilm, and the info in the article all came from Lucasfilm and the production team behind the film. If the author had inferred things that ended up being incorrect, Lucasfilm would have contacted them to make a correction. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 21:59, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

Abd also, we can't cite actor Adam Driver's real age for the character's birth date either. The source in the article is as good as we got right now. Skywalker2255 (talk) 22:01, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

About the image in the Infobox
Might seem nitpicky and unimportant, but I feel like the images in the infoboxes should be more like "pictures" of the character rather than screenshots with transparent images. It feels more encyclopedic to me personally; see Padmé Amidala, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Darth Sidious, Hux, etc, and even Anakin Skywalker as reference. For articles on, say, the First Order Stormtroopers, the transparent background makes more sense, but less so for the actual characters in my opinion. This not only applies to Kylo Ren's page of course, but as well as Phasma's, Rey's, etc. What do you all think? (If this is a new formatting policy my apologies.) Reddyredcp (talk) 03:20, October 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think those images are just being used because they're official promotional images and the best ones we have right now. Once more material starts coming in, we'll probably get better images. You're welcome also suggest a better specific alternate for any particular one if you have one. ProfessorTofty (talk) 04:29, October 20, 2015 (UTC)

Snoke is Kylo's master
Here is a link about JJ Abrams talking about the characters of Kylo Ren and Snoke. http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=45203 Skywalker2255 (talk) 04:14, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

First Order infobox
Can the shade of red used in the First Order character infobox be altered slightly? It's very difficult to read the headers at present.--Ser Patrek (talk) 09:42, October 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * I think the text color could be changed that grey color against that red is kinda hard to see. Skywalker2255 (talk) 22:05, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

First Order "ally"?
The word "ally" in the article strikes me as a bit weak, considering the Databank suggests he commands the First Order. Especially if he's supposedly Snoke's underling, and if Snoke is supposed to be the Supreme Leader of the First Order, it seems to me as though saying Kylo is "allied" with the First Order is inaccurate.

Mind you the definition of "ally" is "combine or unite a resource or commodity with (another) for mutual benefit." I don't think it's as though Kylo cooperates with the First Order simply for mutual benefit, as if he's some third party like a bounty hunter would be, but that he's formally involved within the Order. Thoughts? 20:05, December 15, 2015 (UTC)

Merge with 'Legends' Page
Now that we know who Kylo Ren is, would it be right to merge this page with his Legends counterpart, or is he still considered a "100% original character"? --2.220.201.49 04:38, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * I disagree that the page should be merged. Kylo Ren is still a different character than his Legends "counterpart", even if they seem to share some similarities. Reddyredcp (talk) 04:41, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kylo Ren is an original character. He may be the son of Han and Leia, but he's not Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 04:47, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

Rename page?
Should we rename the page to Ben Solo? That's kind of a tradition of the wiki to keep their true name as the title of the article. [Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine, Jacen Solo, etc] --Mandon (talk) 06:32, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope, Kylo Ren is his new name. Also, Palpatine's page is Darth Sidious, Jacen's is Darth Caedus, and Anakin's page is named the way it is because Vader is redeemed at the end of RotJ. Cwedin (talk) 06:37, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * By this logic, shouldn't Count Dooku's page be renamed to Darth Tyranus? Just curious. Reddyredcp (talk) 21:01, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, because he always went by Dooku and rarely identified as Darth Tyranus. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 21:02, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

Ben... Solo?
Do we know for certain that his last name is Solo? Leia Organa is still General Organa. It is entirely possible that he is also Ben Organa. --UnimportantHero (talk) 15:22, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Children always inherit the surname of their father unless the father is estranged from birth. 18:41, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Is that a specific rule mentioned somewhere in a canonical work? Regardless, his given last name is never mentioned in the film and there are two possible options. Assigning him a last name without confirmation in a canonical work is courting inaccuracy. --UnimportantHero (talk) 01:14, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's more a matter of the fact that there's no reason his surname would be anything else. Solo would be the default. Maybe Leia did use Organa instead, but there's no evidence to suggest that. 19:40, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * There is also no evidence to suggest that it is not his last name. For now, until some canonical source confirms either possibility, I think it is better to leave both the Solo and Organa surnames out of his given name mention. --UnimportantHero (talk) 06:19, December 20, 2015 (UTC)

Character inspired by Darth Caedus?
Disney said they will have characters similar to the ones in Legends. I think Kylo Ren is made to be Disney's version of Darth Caedus. 104.34.250.89 21:49, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no direction connection/inspiration we can cite at this point, though the Behind the Scenes section of Kylo Ren can certainly mention Jacen/Caedus. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 21:58, December 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Brandon, I'm not trying to challenge you or anything. But I'm just curious, if we could have a link to Kylo's lightsabers and Robilo's lightsaber, why not Ben and Jacen? I mean, Kylo is pretty much at this point the canonical equivalent of Caedus. I mean the parallels between Kylo/Caedus are more striking than the parallels between the lightsaber of Kylo and Robilo. Just my two cents. Vidboy10 (talk) 20:48, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * The Canon/Legends connection between the lightsabers was purely for SEO purposes and getting readers to the right page. Traffic spiked in a massive way after that lightsaber was first revealed because people were searching for "crossguard lightsaber" and landing on that page. We wanted to make sure that they found the page about Kylo's lightsaber. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 21:01, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * Alright, alright. Fair game. But I think this should have consideration if more parallels occur between the two characters down the road. I'm just saying. Vidboy10 (talk) 03:02, December 21, 2015 (UTC)

I added a mention of Caedus to the behind the scenes section. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 21:27, December 19, 2015 (UTC)

TFA timeline and Kylo/Ben's age
TFA takes place 32 years after RotJ, and since Kylo/Ben is between 29 to 30 years old as of TFA according to Pablo Hidalgo, he was born between 2 to 3 years post-RotJ, not 0-1 years as the Wiki currently says.DigificWriter (talk) 20:58, December 20, 2015 (UTC) So there you have it Primarch Dysley (talk) 21:56, December 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * TFA takes place 30 years after Endor, not 32. Cade  StupidRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit.svg  Calrayn  21:02, December 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not according to the timeline on this Wiki.DigificWriter (talk)
 * I'm not sure what you're talking about; the movie article uses 30, as that is the date stated in official sources. Any use of 32 is wrong. Cade  StupidRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit.svg  Calrayn  21:14, December 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's 34 years after ROTJ. I quote from an interview with Abrams:
 * “But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant
 * That is unfortunately a bit of writing from the author of the article. It is not part of the Abrams quote. --UnimportantHero (talk) 08:17, December 21, 2015 (UTC)