Talk:Darth Maul/Archive3

Clone Wars bringing about new views on Maul...
Looks like season 3 of Clone Wars is giving us a new history for Maul (making him of the same species as Ventris apparently). And introducing a brother. This is from an article on the Aussie IGN (yes yes I know "you can't say ignorance without saying IGN" but they're at Celebration V).

It might be wise to lock editing of this page only to logged in posters for a while until the series has aired and we see exactly what's changed. Bumbles the Time Lord 23:28, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a clip on YouTube featuring his brother around 6:30. George Lucas and Jon Stewart - Celebration V - part 7

Ign also just posted an interview with George confirming that Maul is being retconed as the same speices as Ventress and that they now both hail from Dathomir and are in some way connected to the Nightsisters

As of the Clone Wars, Darth Maul is alive and well in exile in the Outer Rim.

In the newest star wars insider it said that maul is alive and in exile. Shouldn't this be added to his page.--SUP3RCHUBBY 13:44, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I read it all in there, too. Can't we at least allow major spoilers, please? I put in new sources and I find that they've been removed! I can't take much of the pressure anymore! Lord KOT 22:08, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I was just coming here to let everyone know that major changes to Maul's back story are headed our way, but it looks like plenty of people have already beaten me to it. I read the Insider article last night, and I just wished to point out one thing: Maul's species is not being retconned. He's still a Zabrak. What's changing is the origin or the Zabrak species itself. Apparently, they originated on Dathomir but arrived on Iridonia by way of pirates or something. Consult the article for the exact news. 24.3.90.58 18:39, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the origin of his tattoos is changing, too. Apparently, they are no longer Sith tattoos but are associated with the order of the Nightbrothers. This may mean that they are also changing the time in which he came to be under Sidious' tutelage, which was previously from infancy. This will mess up quite a few existing stories. Thanks again, George Lucas! 24.3.90.58 18:42, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

I am surprised that no one has put this in the article.--SUP3RCHUBBY 15:01, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

It's best to wait for the episodes to air, and thus confirm Maul's survival and past in a visual, canon source, rather than make judgements based on a possibly incorrect magazine article. DeCarta 18:45, December 28, 2010
 * The next 3 episodes clone wars were shown in a privet screening, right? So why cant we update with some spoiler captions, and let people know it is subject to change? Also is anyone else with me in petition Lucas licensing to put the T (Television) cannon below everything else. Some of the actions in the first clone wars cartoon are already considered exaggerations, and the original droid and especially Ewok TV shows were full of weird thing that barely fit the star wars mythos. I feel like the show is great, but a show made for kids in mind should not supersede serous adult novel.(66.156.211.21 22:10, December 29, 2010 (UTC))
 * Because the episode haven't officially aired. That's how wookiepedia works. The rest of your post shouldn't even be here as it has nothing to do with the article. This is not a forum. Korsa3 22:55, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Where's it say Maul's alive? On the official Star Wars page for Season 3 Episode 13, all it says was that Maul's homeworld was being reconned to be Dathomir and that his tattoos are not Sith tattoos as previously mentioned, but that they are given to elite Zabrak warriors of the Nightbrothers. Looking at the Secrets Revealed section will answer some of the questions posted here and give a few details to add to the article. 173.180.89.129 08:29, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * From the Monster commentary on the official site, it sounds like George asked them to bring back Maul, but Filoni actually had an ounce of common sense and created Savage and the others instead.--Darth Oblivion 14:32, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added the "disputed" template to the page until we can sort this out. It's seems that Maul is no longer a mainline Zabrak but is instead a "Dathomiri," so we need to fix all his appearances both here and in other articles. ~ SavageBob 00:04, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure Leland Chee indicated somewhere that the modifier "Dathomiri" is more of a "nationality" than a subspecies of Zabrak. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 00:23, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * In Episode 14, when Obi-Wan mistakes Savage for Maul he is surprised when he learns the Zabrak was from Dathomir and says "Wasn't Darth Maul born on Iridonia?" He is told that while Iridonia was indeed Maul's birthplace, he was raised on Dathomir as a Nightbrother and that's where Sidious found him. To quote the official website: "Expanded Universe lore had previously suggested that the Jedi never knew Darth Maul's name, but the captured Neimoidians would have known it during the Naboo invasion. Maul's EU connections to Iridonia are also mentioned, though the episode reveals Maul was raised on Dathomir." 173.180.89.129 08:37, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

Correction for Main Page
I won't make the changes, as I don't have an easy source to reference, but the name "Khameir Sarin" for Maul isn't from a foreign translation of the novelization of TPM. It's from some foreign editions of the "Virtual Encyclopedia," which appears to be an overseas name for the "Episode I Insider's Guide." I myself make that mistake all the time and had to look back into my own notes from c2000 to find where it was really released. NathanPButler 05:04, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Request for a new main picture
Are there any other good facial profile pictures we could use instead of the one thats currently up? Maul is usually calm and graceful and this picture doesn't really capture that, he looks like a school bully with crooked teeth. DjMack 05:53, January 22, 2011 (UTC) thumb|center
 * I think it's fine. I'd say his most defining traits are his savagery (no pun intended) and his anger.  This image shows that well. Darth Adonis 09:35, January 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I get where both of you are coming from on this subject, but I think the current main image should be altered as well. Maul could be a bit of a savage when it came to fighting and there's no question about his anger or hatred, but he definitely carried himself in a calm and graceful manner (whether in the presence of his Master or others, or even when fighting), which is not what the current image shows. I'm not saying that it's terrible and should just be removed, but I think a different facial image would suit Maul better. JRT2010 10:59, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this one could be cropped, and used. Roger Murtaugh 19:02, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * That could work. Just crop it to get the face and that should be fine. I say go for it, if there are no other objections. JRT2010 19:40, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do not change the infobox image without setting up a vote, thanks. –Tm_T (Talk) 20:01, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Homeworld
The Clone Wars episodes "Witches of the Mist" provides ambiguous informations when it comes to Maul's homeworld. The conversation between Obi-Wan, Yoda and Windu appears to suggest he was born on Iridonia and that Dathomir was merely the planet where he was raised. But then again, Savage was apparently born on Dathomir and it wouldn't make much sense for Maul not to be born on the same planet as his brothers...

We can theorise that the Witches regularly extract male Zabraks from Iridonia at a very young age to populate the village, but this need confimation...--DarthNoris 14:33, January 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * From watching the episodes, I got the impression that "brother" did not suggest a blood relative, but rather a member of the same clan. They are called the Nightbrothers, after all. 24.3.90.58 15:12, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

Survival
I'm not sure I understand how he would have survived the duel with Obi-wan on Naboo. I mean Obi-wan cut him in half and he fell down a very long melting pit.
 * It's the difficult art of retconning someone's death in Star Wars Canon 86.73.99.178 21:16, January 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * He didn't. The Visionaries storyline is non-canon. Ruthless Xero(Comment) 21:32, January 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's nothing to do with Visionaries. The latest episode of Clone Wars has confirmed he is still alive. Jayden Matthews 21:34, January 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, people need to stop posting like it's a forum. This page is about the possibility of Darth Maul still being alive in relation to the January 21st episode of Star Wars: The Clone Wars - "Witches of the Mist" where it was revealed that Darth Maul is indeed alive, exiled on an outer rim planet.
 * It is very possible that this is a trick for Savage, or that this Maul is a clone, or even possibly survived the fall. Roger Murtaugh 18:58, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think it is plausible he survived. He just got sliced into a top and bottom half. That wouldn't necessarilly kill him. The non-canon story that has him with cyborg legs may have merit yet.
 * A canon comic has Darth Vader fighting a clone of Darth Maul created by heretic Sith (and possibly Darth Sidious) and killing him. This is just speculation, but it could be that Savage was sent after the same clone, although I acknowledge this is highly unlikely because the technology for cloning Force sensatives wasn't perfected until the Starkiller and Dark Apprentice were cloned from Galen Marek. It's more likely that Savage being sent to find Maul is merely a reference to the clone Vader killed and the non-canon cyborg-Maul Obi-Wan killed on Tatooine, which is an Outer Rim planet, I might add... We'll have to wait and see what the next arc featuring Savage and Maul says. 173.180.89.129 08:46, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

Let's also bear in mind that a certain Boltrunian by the name of Maw (Dark Jedi) also survived bisection, and lived on seemingly perfectly healthy and powerful through the Force. Therefore, it is entirely possible for Maul to have survived by his knowledge of the dark arts and his sheer willpower. "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural." 24.3.90.58 18:16, January 24, 2011 (UTC) Anyway, Obi-Wan would have felt if he was still alive. Styke Teenona 15:33, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought Maw only had his legs chopped off (according to the article here, anyway- I haven't played the game he is in so I don't know for sure). Losing your legs would be a much more survivable wound than being bisected. Having Darth Maul still alive cheapens Obi-Wan's victory in Episode I in my opinion. Either way, until the next story arc involving Savage is revealed we won't be able to say for sure. Darth Nordeck 05:56, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter, where he was cut in half, but to survive a faal into a plasma reactor is impossible, and according to Star Wars: Complete Locations there is no way up again.
 * Not to mention that you couldn't survive a fall that far, and don't say he stopped his fall with the force the pain would have been to much for him to muster up the focus needed to use the force. GTQ 10:45, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * What about Sith Lord named Simus - head survived for years after decapitation. it si possible to survive without legs..... User: t_pot 19:35, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Wookieepedia is not a general-purpose message board. Go read the message at the very top of the page and then do what it says. -  JMAS  20px Hey, it's me! 16:02, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense that Darth Maul would still be alive. And I agree that he couldn't have survived a fall like that especially after being severed in two. He couldn't have used the Force. Using the Force takes concentration. It would have been 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 that he could of and did survive. Cal Jedi 18:33, January 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Never tell them the odds! Besides, as I have clearly written in the article, it is possible Mother Talzin could be wrong. Remember, Nightsisters are just Force-users without full understanding of their power, and she could be mistaken. Scrayer 02:22, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Let's just wait until the episode airs to find out instead of trying to piece things together now. --JVM 06:37, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * WHich episode would that be? Scrayer 06:59, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * ''"Remember, Nightsisters are just Force-users without full understanding of their power, and she could be mistaken."

Yeahhhh...Right. That would be retconned. And of course it will be opposite and see him with cybernetic replacements like on Old Wounds and make it become canon. (Minus well add it in the article anyway!)—Boba fett 32 21:15, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Look, until we have a full confirmation that Maul is alive, every article should still assume the canon fact that he died on Naboo. "Old Wounds" is Infinities; it is non-canon on matter the speculation. THere are a billion ways how Maul could still be dead. We can discuss this again if Maul ever reappears.-- ID-21 Dolphin  20px(Talk) 14:08, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

We don't know how Aleins work, he could easilly block pain or not feel it. and where it states there's no way back up again, that is so little of an incovience. Sorry for spelling and bringning up a dead topic.
 * This page is not the place for your fan speculation. Do not try to re-open dead topics. NaruHina  Talk 14px 04:59, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

That's why i said sorry.

Alive
When i watched clone wars he is in exile should we delete death on naboo

No because thats just what the nightsisters said we dont change it until we actaully have proof his alive. Posted by Darth bobo 6 10.56 pm

Is there any source confirming the guy on the crystal ball is actually Maul? 'Cause in every other article mentioning the scene, it's taken as if the brother mentioned is Maul. But if there are no sources, it can not be taken for canon just 'cause both characters, Maul and the one in the ball, look much alike. Xicufwm 00:27, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/guide/episode314.html --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 12:07, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, and where exactly it says it is Darth Maul? It just says "interesting". And as for canonicity that is bull. See, I happen to think that Talzin could be sending Savage into a trap or something. That would also be 'interesting', and yet, no Darth Maul. So until it is proved that it is actually Maul in the crystal ball, I think the links should not be in the other pages. Xicufwm 00:42, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * We don't know what Lucas is planning to do with Maul, or how he's even alive, but he's confirmed to be Opress's brother, the one we see in the crystal ball, per multiple sources. Our job is to accept canon, even if it hasn't been fully explained, so that's what we do. Please do not revert without discussion. Thank you.  CC7567  (talk) 02:53, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, these I can see as actual proof. I'm from Brazil and I don't have access to none of these. I could only count in the episode guide from starwars.com and it just says "interesting". I don't see how something "interesting" could be taken for canon. Xicufwm 22:43, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also note that The Clone Wars has not been deemed canon yet. Just look at Even Piell. Darth Ultimatum 19:38, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sadly, it is canon, and TCW does carelessly steamrolls canon. Like what's present in this article, our best bet for now if to insert a TCWRetcon tag in any article that TCW contradicts, albeit pre-TCW ones. Even Piell in this case has a new tag, designed by CC, since I believe Coruscant Nights is c-canon, while TCW is T, a step higher in the continuity scale. I could be wrong but I think that was his intention to create a new tag for that article.  JangFett  (Talk) 20:00, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Infobox image vote!
Okay so I've had some issues with the current infobox for a while, but I never really came across a suitable replacement. I think I've found one, so let's go for a vote on it! Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 18:15, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

File:Maulsnarl.jpg|Option 1 (current) File:DarthMaul-SWI122.jpg|Option 2 (New)

Option 1

 * 1) I'm definitely preferential to this one. While yes, his hood is up, it really doesn't obscure anything besides his horns, which can be seen throughout the rest of the article. The problem with option one is that it is kind of grainy, and all the blacks blend together. The black on his face matches the black on his robes, and all the different shades in his robes are indistinguishable, so he ends up looking like a red maze on top of a black mush. Because of this, he evidently has no neck. Also, there's some strange white dot just to the left of his mouth. AND his facial expression is kind of dumb, to boot. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 18:15, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2)  JangFett  (Talk) 21:42, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Option 2

 * 1) I vote for this one. Much more subtle, and perfect for the infobox. And Darth Trayus, I think you meant to vote for Option 2, too. Alexrd 21:33, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) --ARC Commander Colt 03:49, July 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) More sophisticated.  Korsa3  clicky 03:53, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

 * Please don't add any new options without first suggesting them in the comments section. Thanks! Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 18:15, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would really like that Darth Trayus would clarify his vote, so that we can proceed to change the picture. Alexrd 20:21, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Another image vote, brought to you by the magic of Blu-ray
 This section is an archive of a community discussion. This section is no longer live. Further comments should be made in a new discussion section rather than here so that this section is preserved as a historic record. The result of the debate was: Adopt File:MaulFaceReveal-TPM.jpg as Darth Maul's infobox image. For future reference, at least 22 participants will be required to overturn this decision. Closed via snowball clause. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 05:17, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

I was going through TPM for screenshots, when I was suddenly struck by how perfect this image is. I couldn't believe we never had it before. It's literally the perfect headshot. All I had to do was brighten it just a tiny bit and crop it to infobox size. But since we love our votes, let's have another one. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 20:32, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Current image
 * Blu-ray shot

Option 1

 * 1) Personally, when applicable I prefer licensed images, rather than snapshots from a film or TV show, etc. If it were up to me, a bunch of articles with the infobox image as a film still instead of a licensed image would be changed. But that's just my opinion. Hanzo Hasashi 21:03, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Option 1, face says: "I'll rip out your heart and slap you with it"; option 2: face says, "What?" *Plus bad lighting (DPs hate the baldies) and makeup. R5-X41238-G8-R3-3124-D2 21:31, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Option 2

 * Darth Culator (Talk) 20:32, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) What more could you want? Jayden Matthews 20:34, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 *  CC7567  (talk) 20:35, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) 1358  (Talk)  20:36, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2)  JangFett  (Talk) 20:47, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) fo realz Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:48, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Looks great.-- Exiled Jedi  Oldrepublic crest.svg (Greetings)  20:54, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) Even though the horns look really fake. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 20:58, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) –K.A.J•T•C•E• 21:15, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) ~ Savage BOB sig.png 21:30, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) --- 501st Dogma Republic_emblem.png( Comlink ) 21:57, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * 9) Blu-ray. Nuff said.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 04:47, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 10) Hornswoggled. Menkooroo 04:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 11) I dig cloak shots, but this one is hard to argue with. -- DigiFluid 05:14, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 12) Ressor 11:59, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 13) --Station7 14:09, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 14) JRT2010 14:44, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 15) Yep. Corellian PremierRobotech.jpg along the watchtower 15:32, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16) Cool. AND HE DIED ON NABOO!!!!!!!! STOP VIOLATING CANON, TCW !!!!  Clone Commander Lee  Talk 16:38, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 17) Plagueis327 04:33, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

 * Any thoughts on my opinion mentioned above? Hanzo Hasashi 21:41, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I normally prefer promos as well, but I'm making an exception in this case. Maul should definately have an un-hooded main image, but the old toothy promo was hideous. Plus that screenshot represents such an iconic moment. It's just perfect. Jayden Matthews 21:49, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Although I do prefer the second shot, is it possible to add a bit of negative space above his head? I don't like the fact that his head touches the top border of the image, but otherwise, it's great. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 16:01, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really, no. That's the entire height of the film frame. In fact, if this were from any prior version, the top of his head would be slightly cut off. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 16:16, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * OK; I'll blame it on George Lucas then. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 18:53, January 15, 2012 (UTC)