Talk:Lucrehulk-class battleship

Shouldn't this be moved to Lucrehulk-class battleship? Cmdr. J. Nebulax 00:50, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 21:07, 4 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Weapons count

 * The published weapons count is in error. If you watch the Queens escape closely, there are more guns atop the engine housing part that are not counted in original 42.  Really the count should be at least 18 higher, maybe more since weapons fire is observed coming from the bottom of the ship.  In addition, the novelization mentions hundreds of smaller emplacements for its secondary armerment.  The problem gets even worse by the time of ROTS, where there are literally dozens of heavy emplacements newly added to the ships atop the coreships and on top of and below the arms.  Fortunatley, a rationalization is possible - the AOTC novel describes a diference between these being battleships and troop transports.  Thus the 42 heavy quad turbolasers is probably the primary armerment of the troop transport, the battleship mk I (and really its more of a Star Cruiser]] has an armerment of at least 60 (84 if bilateral symmetry is part of the design like it is in the other craft bigger then Imperators) heavy quadlasers, and the mk II is what is seen at the BoC.  Comments before editing?  --Lowkey
 * As far as I have seen, there are no "Mark I"s or "Mark II"s for the Lucrehulk. If the weapons are modified, the ships themselves are not considered "Mark I"s or "Mark II"s. Admiral J. Nebulax 14:14, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the extra guns are highly visible on the ROTS versions, they're placed all over the ship, both the ring and the sphere, so that would constitute a different, heavily armed subclass. VT-16 14:00, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Or, it shows that the ships became more heavily armed due to the war. I'd say that "more heavily armed due to the war" seems to be the most likely situation. I doubt that there are subclasses of this vessel. Admiral J. Nebulax 15:48, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, that's true. VT-16 17:22, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course, the only "source" we have it what we saw. Admiral J. Nebulax 19:42, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * True, but if what we saw in ROTS is what most Lucrehulks turned into, there wouldn't be any Mk. Is, only original Lucrehulk models with more guns. VT-16 22:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:41, 24 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I've found a schematic made by ILM for ROTS showing the spread of long guns, quad guns and heavy guns on the CW era Lucrehulk. Will count the dots at a later time. VT-16 17:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * A lot of dots on that schematic. A lot. Plus I can't tell the red and green ones apart cause they're so small and I'm colourblind. The problem with the schematic is that it's HS only, and I'm not sure if using information on it is illegal or not.YIIMM 21:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Could this schematic be posted here? I'll see what I find. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 22:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Link to requested schematic: Archon 23:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow... Thank you. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 00:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Could there possibly have been ventral guns?
 * Do you mean for the Clone Wars Lucrehulks? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * yes, I do
 * Well, I suppose it's possible. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

What refits did it get?
From analysis of the Lucrehulk-class Battleship's weaponry, it seemed more adapt at anti-starfighter warfare than ship-to-ship warfare. In the article, it was said that heavier guns were placed on it, does that mean it actually got turbolasers for the Clone Wars? ...like what exactly? What types of Turbolasers? Where the Quad-lasers removed?
 * Yes. It had a very large upgrade for the Clone Wars. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 16:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * There's a chart up above that shows dots representing what weapons it had. And no, from what I can tell, the quad-lasers weren't removed. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:14, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I want to know the source of the refit. It seems improbable. Cheers,  Relentless Recusant [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] 21:39, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Why is it improbable to you? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Source? ILM on the Hyperspace feature. VT-16 10:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Were the Quad-Lasers Actualy Quad-Turbolasers?
They seem to huge to be laser cannons.
 * Well, I'm positive that sources call them quad laser cannons. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Then why are pre-Clone Wars armanents now being called Quad Turbolaser Batteries? When did the retcon come in?
 * Well, they do appear to be turbolasers. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yet we still don't have confirmation they are turbolasers. Until an ICS retcon or something comes in, the Lucrehulk-class Battleship and the Core Ship I think should still be classified as having just quad lasers.
 * Quad lasers the size of starships? No. Quad turbolasers make more sense. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Size of starfighters, it's not like they were larger than the Queen's Yacht, or some of the larger light freighters. They could be heavy quad lasers, and their canon armanent for pre-Clone Wars still is quad lasers, not quad turbolasers.
 * Then get a quote instead of just changing it first. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't have it. I'll try to find it, but I still say they don't have quad turbolasers since there is really no canon confirmation. Do you have a quote to support that view?
 * Right now, I'm not the one who needs a quote. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Cloak of Deception states the Revenue, a pre-upgrade freighter, carries turbolasers, but quad lasers are also referred to. Whether they're one and the same I don't know - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 18:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Pre-upgrade" is the key word. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:14, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The Starship Battles Preview 4 stats
Check out the author's blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/silverforce/73

Guns for the E2 core-ship should also be added, I think?Vymer 11:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the blog, I think I can see where the author's coming from- I think the blue dots = turbolaser, the red dots = assault cannon, the green = point defense quads.Vymer 11:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you're referring to the picture, this has been discussed already. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm referring to Starship Battles 4 on WotC, which is what prompted the last change to armament Vymer 13:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh... Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I mean Preview 4 of Starship Battles on the WotC website- lol. Just realized the title wasn't clear. Fixed.Vymer 14:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see now. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Just a note, I changed the pre-Clone Wars armament of the TFB- the link to the quad lasers entry on the original TFB were nothing more than light point defence guns, like on a Lancer or the Falcon, and that's just not so- they're massive guns far larger than the Naboo Yacht and easily visible from a distance (see Episode 1, and the Episode 1 ICS). The quad guns on the Episode III refit simply must be smaller.Vymer 02:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Because there's no way the TFB could fit hundreds of more guns that size on the same hull. The quads on the TFB in Episode I are huge- in the side trench on the ring, they take up basically half of the entire height of the trench. They're that big. You couldn't possibly fit hundreds on the hull, from a distance it'd look like a turbolaser nest.
 * Why do they automatically have to be smaller? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, re: the link to quad lasers, there's no way those guns are point defence, nor are they like the quads on the Falcon or Lancer. That's why I got rid of that link for the Episode I version. Never mind how it makes little sense to assume that the TFB in Episode 1 was a worthless warship with nothing but point defense weapons (when in the film it's guns are utterly massive and clearly Death Star turbolaser scale).Vymer 04:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a pic of their size in Episode 1, so you can see what I mean- on the Episode 1 ship, they're huge turbolasers- heavies even. If you compare the weapons count of the quad lasers on the Episode 1 version, it seems the most logical conclusion is that these guns were replaced with the turbolasers (the blue dots) on the hyperspace diagram- the big heavy guns. The numbers are about the same, so it makes sense.

 Vymer 04:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: so what I think then should be done is perhaps the quad laser link should be expaded- mention the heavy quads of the TFB Episode 1 ship and the Acclamator from Episode 2, not to mention the ISD Mk1, rather than give readers the impression that tiny quads are the only type in existence.Vymer 04:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC) Nice one indeed.Vymer 06:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC) For my part, I don't own photoshop :( Vymer 12:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought that already stood in the article. It needs to be clarified, anyway. VT-16 14:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that article needs to be expanded. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No need. I found that the big quad laser cannons on the capital ships were called quad turbolasers in AOTC:ICS and ROTS:ICS, so I made a new article. :D VT-16 16:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Great. Thank you. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Regarding that picture, any way we could cut it just to have the turbolaser? I think it would look good in the article. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I use Paint to the same effect. ;) Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... Highly dubious about these claims. Why? Because we simply don't see this in the films. Even in ROTS, there aren't huge clouds of TL and laser cannon fire emanating from the TF Battleships. There's numerous instances of TF Battleships engaging Venators at point blank distances during the Coruscant battle sequence. In one I could count 8 discrete points of fire from the top trench in a curved forward section of the hull. These shots are certaily within just a few KMs of the target. Where are the 472 assault lasers then? Certainly they can't be out of range! In another sequence we see out Anakins window where a BB is extremely close - you can make out individual windows in the superstructure in some detail. Yet no fire is shown at all. Where are all these point defense turrets? demiurge 1:39, 28 December 2006
 * Just because we don't see them firing in the film doesn't mean they weren't there. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:12, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Size
Were the ships really that much larger than an ISD?
 * Yes. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:21, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And they were not cylinder- or dagger-shaped, but ring-shaped and with a massive central sphere, giving them more room to put guns than on an ISD. VT-16 00:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think this was a question about the guns, VT... &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 14:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but it's usually one of the aspects people don't like, that any other ship in the movies (barring the Executor and the DS) can be bigger. VT-16 14:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)