Talk:Krynda Draay/Archive1

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Moved from Talk:Jedi associate
Hmm. Judging by the picture, she's more likely to be Kreia than Atris. - Sikon [ Talk ] 06:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think its neccessarily either of them, here's why: The author is trying to throw in all these little winks to the video game - the fact that it's a grey robe is probably a reference to the "gray jedi robe" in the games, and whoever this new(?) character is, they're probably some sort of gray jedi. Or maybe it's Kreia. Lonnyd 07:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

My money's on Atris. Both were fanatical about stopping the spread of the dark side.--KrossTransmit on Holonet? 17:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to venture to say that it is NOT Atris. This Jedi Associate is supposedly a female Jedi Master, living during the Great Sith War, who trained some of the Orders greatest Jedi Consulars? My thoughts going directly to Kreia. Consider this:
 * Atris is (I'm assuming) too young to have been living during the Great Sith War.
 * Atris is even stated to have never trained any Jedi. She holds the title of Jedi Master by honorary means, not by the traditional methods.
 * Kreia says that she was exiled because every student she ever trained was considered a failure.
 * Vrook makes the comment, upon seeing Kreia, "Is this your new Master, Exile? If so, then you follow Revan's path. Her teachings will cause you to fall as surely as her did." But we know that she taught more than just Revan.
 * This Associate seems to have a deep knowledge of the Force, and supposedly taught these consular Jedi Masters much of the teachings of the Jedi. Kreia was the Jedi Historian before Atris.

Ooo, I just thought of something. Maybe that's how Atris assumed that role. She was a Jedi Master who had never trained a Jedi. I think it sage to assume she was not trained by Kreia (Wizards of the Coast depict Atris as a Jedi Guardian). She would have been the perfect fall-back for Historian candidate after the Council exiled Kreia. That is, if Kreia was exiled for the reasons that she gives the Exile. She even admits lying to the Exile from the moment she awoke. So why are the reason of her exile and the exile of others taken as correct. She most certainly wasn't correct on the Council stripping the Exile of the Force.

Anyway, my money is on Kreia being Jedi Associate. If she's not, then it's someone else. But I can almost say, with certainty, that it is not Atris.--Master Dakari 03:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've always thought that the Jedi Associate was Atris, but it was just a guess. Given the Covenant's close connections with Krynda, their ultimate goal is to serve her visions, so i think she's the "Associate" She's obviously not Atris because Atris is seen in the Jedi Temple when they speak with the Revanchist. My money is on that Krynda is Kreia, but it's just speculation at this point, i guess. --Elshnair 21:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I am almost certain Krynda will turn out to be Kreia. I may as well repost my reasoning (minus my argument regarding Arren Kae) to avoid flitting between pages (if this is against wiki rules, then notify me and I'll happily replace the text below with the appropriate link).
 * I'll start the ball rolling with this quote:
 * "And do not mate with her [Visas Marr]. Such a union would breed trouble." - Kreia
 * Of course, Kreia would know what it's like to be the product of such an undoubtably rare union wouldn't she?
 * It is known that both possessed amazing powers of prognostication. It is also known that Kreia once used her eyes but allowed them to atrophy (despite being able to heal them) as she found how to use Force Sight, maybe because they create another layer of disguise: Krynda's Miraluka heritage certainly gifted her with unusual physiology, and her distinctive eyes could easily identify her to any who knew her. Also, Krynda tells us just how much she appreciates the power of Force Sight:
 * "If only my father's blood had been stronger! I would gladly have given my eyes—and yours—for you to be able to see what the Miraluka see!" - Krynda
 * But there's more: when Revan was looking to recruit more Jedi for his Revanchist movement, who better to ask than an old "acquaintance" to join? Judging from their conversation, Revan appears to have some history with Lucien... a friendship between Kreia's son and her Padawan perhaps?
 * Weren't all of Kreia's - numerous - apprentices considered failures? Bloodthirsty, all too eager to get their lightsabers out? Possibly, say, the kind of Jedi who would unanamously agree to cut down their own Padawans at the first sign of trouble? Possibly "failed Padawans" in much the same way as Haazen, the Padawan of her husband? ;P
 * Thanks to Zayne Carrick, Krynda won't be able to keep the Padawan Massacre quiet too long. Maybe she'll be exiled before the end of the Mandalorian Wars for her own part in it. Maybe, consumed by guilt, she'll question the validity of her unorthodox beliefs. Maybe I'll contine to paraphrase elements from the Kreia article until it becomes clear...


 * "You see that I was right, now, don't you? The truth is written in blood." - Revan

http://img227.( image shack dot U S )/img227/9279/kryndeiasz4.jpg
 * Of course, a sudden twist may render my argument utterly wrong. However, I think the Kreia/Krynda possibility is entirely strong enough to be included in the speculation. --Kessel 13:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

And that's my reasoning. --Kessel 18:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

What?
Referring to her being Kreia: "However this is unlikely because she was cast out of the order sometime during or even before the Mandalorian Wars for her training of Revan." Is it just me, or is this a complete non sequitur? - Lord Hydronium 21:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, seems to be irrelevant. Lonnyd 22:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Huh?
"Her father may be been as Jedi Consular as well."

Is this revealed, or even hinted at, in the comics? Even if so, does it hold any relevance?
 * I don't think it is mentioned anywhere, but if it is it might actually hold a little relevance. Vandar told Zayne that Master Draay was the scion of a very powerful family within both the Jedi Order and the Republic. Lucien's father, mother, and aunt were all Jedi who fought in the Great Sith War. His aunt was Krynda's sister. This might go to show that Lucien is in a Jedi lineage from both parents; since the Draay family is the one mentioned by Vandar, and both Krynda and her sister were Jedi. But, I'm not the one who included that line in Krynda's bio, and I don't think it even belongs there until it is mentioned in the comics. Mere speculation has no place in the articles of this site.--Master Dakari 07:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Dark Side?

 * However, this goal became an obsession, and blinded her to the rise of the dark side in the Order through other means until it was too late.

That's speculation, I think. It's unknown if there actually was a rise of the dark side, and if there was, whether the associate was oblivious to it or whether she actually was the cause of it. - Sikon [ Talk ] 19:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * This info is all based on the advert for Issue #10 of the series. Lonnyd 12:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It didn't mention the dark side last time I checked. - Sikon [ Talk ] 12:33, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

???
So what makes anyone think this person i "the jedi associate" forget the fact over who it might be. How do you guys know it is 1) a female 2) anybody who plays any role (could just be random nobody watching the news) 3) And any of the other information in the article?

I read the comics, and they don't say anythign about a "jedi associate"
 * Then you must be a pretty bad reader. Kuralyov 03:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I read it
O.k. it says that they talked to their associate, so I can see that there is someone they are connected to, but how do you know it is the robbed person and how do you know it is a she?
 * First issue.

Xamar: Yessss...tonight. Did you contact Corussscant? Lucien: I heard what I needed to hear. Xamar: Yessss, but what did sssshe ssssay?

Going to play the "Jedi associate isn't female!" game like Exile?

-- Redemption Talk Uglykotoricon.svg 19:55, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay
I noticed after I posted that where it said she, but how do you know that the robed figure is the associate?
 * It's pretty obvious. Who else would it be? Just some random person sitting there? I don't think so or else there would be no point in concealing the face. Use your common sense for Gods sake. -- Redemption Talk Uglykotoricon.svg 21:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

It's NOT Atris...
I don't believe that it coould be Atris for reasons already mentioned and also for logical reasons of psychology...If Atris was the Master of one of the Padawans, she would have been severely "shaken" by the fall or potential fall of her padawan more so thanthe exile who she never had the master-padawan "bond" with. This event would have shaken her to the core because of the doom of the other four padawans who were not the suspected Sith pontential...it would suggest that her faith in the perfection of the Jedi way of life was already shaken before the "fall" of the Exile, and her wiki profile suggests that The Exile's defiance is what did her faith in.. Kreia is an almost perfect choice for this role of the Associate..the only question in my mind about that is wether Kreia was already a Sith and somehow perhaps caused this event to transpire. After all Kreia seems fond of communicating over distances, anyways..as for this other lady I have no idea who she is her profile doesn't even mention any association with the force..other than perhaps her blood relation to a jedi...not having read the comic this puts me at a disadvantage..on that possibility but It just seems natural for the associate to be Kreia, and it explains why she was so thoroughly Exliled from the order, simply being the traainer of a fallen jedi just doesn't seem like enough to me, but then it seems they would have done more to Kreia than cast her out if it were discovered fully that she took part in this plot...or maybe not if she feigned redemtion...to those who have read this comic series, what happened to the vision of the surviving padawan? this prophecy could help clear up some of the confusion( if it's a reliable prophecy that is)..e.g. which Master survived? did this master best the boy in combat and confess to someone, maybe HIM alone(pointless unless pleading or gloating I suppose since he already knows of the plot) before she struck him down?...Well this plot makes for good literature and I'll have to read up on it, because it sounds good enough to expand more on the nature of this "Jedi Associate" character.
 * Hmmm its all specualtion anyway at this point Jedi Dude 11:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Frankly, at this point I'm inclined to assert that Krynda is the associate. However, it isn't clear yet, and many will disagree. - Sikon 11:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If we rely on Master Q'Anilia's vision there's no known female Jedi that fits with it. Look, the only known female Jedi who is victim of the First Jedi Purge is Lonna Vash. However, she is not killed on Coruscant (she died on Korriban) and it's true that she is murdered by a Sith Lord (Darth Sion), but he didn't wear red clothes... So it must be another character. Not Atris, not Kreia, not Vash.  Battle Surgeon  talk
 * True. Sion did not wear red clothing but they said that the red space suit represented one of the Padawans. Not everything in those visions was crystal clear. Several things were simply representation. I'd be more then willing to believe that Krynda and Kreia are one in the same just by the similarities in the name and what we saw was a "representation" of Kreias fall. But everything in this discussion is a moot point though. Merely speculation. -- Redemption Talk Uglykotoricon.svg 13:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

but were talking about the jedi associate, not the sith killer in the masters' visions, right?
I cannot even begin to speculate about that it seems as if their visions are of events from different time periods, like the one that saw the destruction of the temple on Coruscant... Also, Kreia herself was given to visions and maybe thats why she might have sanctioned the massacre... I think the surviving padawans vision is key to solving this mystery... whoever has read this comic needs to come forward and add to this discussion with facts about what happened as he hunted after these masters ie which one survived..etc.

Merge with Krynda Draay?
I think it's clear now (I don't have the comic, but that's judging by the long spoiler LosDosMos posted on TFN). - Sikon 04:46, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, this should be moved back. Krynda and Haazen speak of another member of the covenant who is a Jedi inside the order, the associate is still unnamed and offscreen. Lonnyd 22:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you be specifc (page number, who says it, yatta yatta ya)? Since I just went through it and Haazen and Krynda don't say anything about another Jedi. -- Redemption Talk Uglykotoricon.svg 22:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * My mistake, re-read that scene, they are refering to Lucien. Lonnyd 22:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber Color
Anyone know what it was? Livingston  ( The Force will be with you. Always. ) 19:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing as we've never even seen her with a lightsaber, and thus we don't even know if she carries one, no. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png Talk 20:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Know this I do. I thought there may be some outside mention of it though, from a source I might be unaware of. Livingston  Jedi Order2.jpg ( The Force will be with you. Always. ) 06:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Is she alive?

 * Do we actually know if she is even alive? I mean, we've never actually seen her in person, except in flashbacks. And the person watching Zayne being taken to the Masters on Taris could have been Haazen, as why would she wear a cloak in her own home?
 * I know Haazen says she's alive, but are we supposed to take his word for it? Looking at the preview for issue 33 makes me think something funny's going on... --

Haazen can now be considered an unreliable source, so yes: it's quite likely that he's lying. Nevertheless, I hope that Krynda still has a part to play in the remainder of the story - after devoting an entire issue to her history and setting Zayne off on a path to meet her and expose the Covenant; to kill her off behind-the-scenes would be a bit irritating and anticlimactic. Judging from the visions recieved by the First WatchCircle, her death - if she *is*going to die, that is - would appear to be particularly dramatic. --Kessel 16:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Expansion

 * There are a few sections which I believe should be expanded on, and I also think we should add a Powers & Abilities section. --Kessel 18:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Prophecy of the Five

 * I take it then that the statement that Krynda was "convinced" that the First WatchCircle was the prophesied "Five" in the article Prophecy of the Five is actually just fan speculation presented as fact? --Kessel 12:40, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

And why would you assume that? I read issues #9 and #24, and Krynda truly says they're the group she had foreseen.--Jinger 14:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We don't know how many groups Krynda has forseen. And there are still questions as to if she meant the Covenant or perhaps she meant the Sith Lords or she meant something completely different. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 16:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I fail to see it, but I won't argue. If you feel there is margin for error that the prophecy of the five is about the watchcircle, you may not be the only one.--Jinger 21:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Q'anilia saw Krynda killed?
I always thought it obvious from the masters' vision in issue 5 that they all saw their own deaths at the hands of a figure in a red padawan suit, yet here it says she probably saw Krynda. What is the basis or source for that, because I've never seen anything to suggest that in the books. Naturally, prophecies being what they are, it might be considered a valid observation, but there still seems to me to be no basis for it given that all the other seers exclusively saw their own deaths. Jediphile 20:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The black and white outline is too indistinct to truly make out that it's Krynda. I say we should remove that. --Kessel 20:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It clearly shows Q'Anilia on Coruscant. She says "they haven't reached the compound. I've got to get to her, got to protect&mdash;dead already? Noooooo!" Then there is one laying on the ground and Q'Anilia, and the Sith in red space suit. I have trouble believing that it may be unclear to anyone that she's talking about Krynda, she hardly speaks of anything else, but go ahead and remove it if you think that's the case.--Jinger 21:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Look again, and you'll note that the text-bubble with the last "no" points to the very person lying on the ground before that Sith in a red space suit. That bubble is tied to the other bubbles containing the text you mention, so it is clearly the person lying there who is saying those words. Even on the image without the text, it is obvious that the text-bubble points to the person lying on the ground, and it's always seemed obvious to me that those words were Q'Anilia's. I'd agree she is probably talking about Krynda when saying "I've got to get to her. Got to protect -", but whether it's Krynda or Q'Anilia herself being referenced to as being "dead already" is uncertain. I'd tend to think it's Q'Anilia herself, since the other seers saw their own deaths, but it is speculative. But since the text-bubble points to the person lying on the ground, it seems obvious to me that the person is Q'Anilia, unless we are to argue, someone else is speaking during her vision. Jediphile 10:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I see Q'Anilia on the ground crying on the dead body of another person, who's likely to be Krynda. Then again, there's no blinking neon sign, as much as I see one :) so I guess the article should reflect that.--Jinger 11:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I apologize. The text wasn't visible... --Kessel 21:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No need. Why is it that some comic panels uploaded by users are lacking text, anyway?--Jinger 21:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Remove it. It's still speculation. For all we know, she might be talking about some random other female Jedi. And the panels lacking text is really an authors preference. If the text has relevant context to the article it's in, to what it's describing, then it stays. If it's just random dialog then it goes. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 21:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's off-topic, I know, and not really necessary now, but since we're discussing it I'd say that the text should be in the vision scans because the words are actually part of the visions. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 00:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. The visions are too abstract to start with - take away the text, and you can't get anything out of it. --Kessel 18:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Now, after Vindication has begun, I am 100% sure that Krynda is already long dead. Mauser 12:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * How unfortunate that your opinion means shit. All we can now that Vindication has begun is that they believe that it was Krynda they saw killed. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 14:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you stay polite, blast it?! I didn't add this to the article or anything, I'm just adiind my 5 cents to the discusion! Mauser 14:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that spiral is some type of medieval castle stairway, where Q'Anilia would run up or down, trying to get to Krynda. Or mabye it's a shock whip around her arm before electricuting her to death, just like the one Darth Maleval I don't know. As for the red suited Sith... the figure was probably a fake made up by Haazen to confuse the First WatchCircle into killing their Padawans. 131.109.225.3 15:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)