Talk:Darth Caedus

Jedi guardian
why jacen is listed as a guardian, is fanon or what? Camar skywalker 22:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently it is cannon, from what I saw in the Jedi Guardian article. And guys please sign your comments and questions. --Petiflo 13:10, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Cannon go boom!  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 20:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Tenal Ka
What year did they get married?

They didn't. And please sign your name on talk pages. Firebird 04:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

SorryMeesa yoda 19:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i was wondering that same thing? Well i guess ishouldn't have started with the legacy of the Force series!!! I was reading it and I am like who the heck is she? oops:^)<**>

Inferno Spoilers
Not sure where else to put this, but there's a ton of stuff that has to be from Inferno after the end of the "Sacrifice" part of the article. I'm not sure how to tag it as spoiler, so hopefully someone who can do it sees this. --64.246.248.32 14:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * R those pages from sacrifice or inferno mabey u just got a bad copy no offense i got a book one time missin 4 pages alltogether<**>

Sith Saber
It's stated in the spoilers that Jacen ended up creating a new saber with the traditional red sith crystal. I've just finished Inferno and nowhere in the book, or the preview for the next one does it state that he was building a new saber. As has been seen in the alternate ending of the Episode III Game, and a few other places I can't think of off the top of my head. Not all Sith build their sabers, some are gifted them from their Masters. So I would say at this point that is conjecture, unless there is a verifiable source of this statement.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink 21:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummmmmm clearly one cannon source is verifiable and present, Jacen's Profile Picture, which is from the upcoming book Revelations, and though you can't really state he went on to make one, you can state he'd go on to use one, so yeah.. DawnStrike 21:30 3 September (UTC)
 * Even more, if you bothered to read the sentence at all you would have noticed that it says Jacen would eventually acquire a new lightsaber and use a traditional red Sith crystal... so yeah.... congrats?Darth Balls 20:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Wait a second, if Jacen lost his lightsaber during the duel with Luke, what did he stab Kyle Katarn with? He probably has a backup saber I guess, but I thought I'd point that out. 21:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC-8)
 * Did Luke Take Jacen's Saber? hmm ill have to do some re-reading. Hey does any one know who's on the cover of Fury because it looks like Jacen but does Jacen have a blue saber i thought it was green. (mabey i should finish the book) i can't wait for Revelation or Invincible*<:) <**>

Infobox image
Okay. Lets face it. Darth Caedus' image is a piece of shit. It is. It looks like the boy is chewing on gum after smoking some really bad pot as a 14 year old. Needs to be changed. I know there are many who say "it's the most recent!". The only thing I have to say in response to that is that I don't give a damn. Previous consensus on this matter is whatever looks best. So just hope the community feels the same way. -- Redemption  Talk 01:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Image #2

 * 1) Image 4 is overrated (come to think of it, with the exception of Jaina, the JP Joiner King cover is not to my taste). Firebird 14:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Image #4

 * 1) Doesn't look like a child. Looks old enough to actually be able to father children. Expression has "cheery" disposition.  Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 01:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Graestan concurs. - Graestan  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( This party's over ) 01:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) This one also concurs.--Goodwood 01:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) This is the only picture of Jacen I've seen in which he looks like an adult. Plus, isn't the Revelation image inaccurate now that Inferno's been released? Didn't Jacen get part of his face sliced off? Israi 15:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) He does look like an adult here. --Petiflo 17:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) I concur Meesa yoda 17:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) I agree as well DarthPraxus 12:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) In favor, for now. Hopefully, we'll get something good from the Japanese covers. DarthSanctimonious 15:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) This is probably the only good image of him that exist, the legacy one makes him look like some skinny wrist cutting emo.--\\Captain KAJ// 20:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Jaina Leia Mara 16:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) 12 umm well isnt that a image that "takes place" in the Joiner King? So yeah he is like 26years old<**>

Current

 * 1) Darth Vatrir-I like this one because its both the most up to date, and its stylish and intimidating, quite appropriate for the newest addition to the roster of psychotic, power-crazed maniacs.
 * 2) Darth Balls-Since this is the most up-to-date (though the book's not out yet) and captures what Jacen has become. Though 4 is a close second.Darth Balls 05:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) DawnStrike-I'm for this one. It's not bad, and it's the most accurate, official, and current potrayal of him.--DawnStrike 03:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) QuentinGeorge 12:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC) It's an official picture. It's the latest official picture. Take your "it sucks" complaints elsewhere. QuentinGeorge 12:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) *I'm not sure if that was a shot at my expense but either way. If it sucks...it doesn't belong in the infobox. I believe we had a consensus on this. And I apologize if I at least try to make the article look better...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 19:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Oyam5000 16:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) The current is the best image. It is the most up-to-date, and alot better than the lame ones that have been in his profile pic for FAR TOO LONG. Darth Byss 13:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) As abominable as it is, he's just undergone a major change. Keep the Sith image, I say, and let's hope the Japanese rendition gets here on a wing and a prayer. Thefourdotelipsis 14:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) As the most recent canonical rendition, I have to default to this one. Even though he does look like he's chewing tobacco. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 14:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) I have to agree with KAJ, who voted for Image #4...this is the only image that makes him look like the wrist curring emo that he is. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 14:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) If he currently looks like a tobacco chewing emo kid then his article should reflect that he looks like a tobacco chewing emo kid. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 15:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This one is easily the best --ShadowEdgeX 08:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments
Regarding infobox images it should be a case of wether an image is good or not and the legacy one is pathetic.--\\Captain KAJ// 18:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Name on his page
SINCE JACEN HAS CEASED TO BE JACEN SOLO, THE PAGE SHOULD BE TITLED DARTH CAEDUS. AM I RIGHT? YES I AM. PLEASE REPLY, SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * Alright first : no need to use caps, we can read you just fine without them. Second : could you please sign your comments. Third : hmm I think you're right, since Lumiya's page is titled "Lumiya" and not "Shira Brie", just as Darth Krayt's page isn't titled "A'Sharad Hett", maybe the page should be renamed "Darth Caedus" for the sake of uniformity. Either that either rename the two others I mentionned. Petiflo 17:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Throughout Inferno he refers to himself as Caedus not Jacen Solo and so I think the title of this article should reflect this. Grunny (Talk) 09:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Jacen Solo is dead...There is only Darth Caedus. Darth Byss 03:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not only does every other character's POV refer to him as Jacen, but the Dramatis Personae (OFFICIAL, and not from a POV) refers to him as such. We leave the page where it is. Firebird 06:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe we can not go by any definite standard. Even people at LFL are referring to Jacen as Darth Caedus. Plus nobody IU knows that Jacen is a Sith Lord, much less know his name. Darth Caedus believes Jacen is dead. Take Palpatine for example...what was his true name...Darth Sidious, but we keep it at Palpatine because it was the name he was first called by and the name mostly known. Darth Tyranus we call Count Dooku because that is what he was known by IU and OOU. However, IU both of Caedus's parents consider Jacen dead, so does Luke, and Darth Caedus himself believes his old self is dead, and regardless of any standard or what not, the issue has always been what people WANT to call a character. Darth Bane was known as Darth Bane. He left his old identity behind. We do not call him by his birth name because he remade and renamed himself. This is why we shouldn'y call Darth Bane anything else but DARTH BANE. Darth Vader died when he turned back to the light and became Anakin Skywalker once more. Now how was he most known OOU? He is known mostly as Darth Vader. My point is this, we can not give an absolute standard and definition for this issue because it is subjective to a number of facts. You must use discernment. I believe this page should be moved to Darth Caedus because of IU reasons and author intent. Also you can not say that a Dramatis Personae over rides everything else we know. You will run into many problems if you hold that as standard. The issue should have been settled by this statement alone:

"Caedus...my name is Darth Caedus"

and by rights both IU and OOU, a person has a right to change there name and identitfy themselves with a new name, regardless of what other people knew them by before. Darth Caedus's rise has been along time coming. You can see it even from the beginning. He always had a sort of attitude that basically said that he was right and that his view was the only view. You can see it in his arguements with Anakin Solo and his disagreements with his uncle and sister. He thinks himself greater than he truly is, believes his way is best and that he knows what is best for everyone. You can even observe Darth Caedus trying to deny what he knew in his heart to be true all along when he was captured by Vergere. She made him acknowledge his darkness. You saw the cognitive dissonance he suffered in his denial but he finally accepted it, not because it was objectively true, but because deep down he wanted it to be true. Why? Freedom. No longer would he have to worry about good and bad, right and wrong, and other such issues. He would do what was right in his own eyes. It gave him what he wanted...power and control over his own life and destiny, or at least, the illusion of it. Even a quick read between the loving Jacen Solo and the ruthless Darth Caedus, you can observed the shift in identity, and it is significant enough that it appears that a new character entirely has been created. The personalities between Jacen and Caedus differ enough, IMO, to justify the move from the article being under Jacen Solo, to it's appropriate title of Darth Caedus. Darth Byss 15:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

LFL may have chosen his Sith name, but the only time he's referred to as such is from his POV. And yes, I do generally take the DP as standard. Leave the page where it is until such a time when any DP refers to him via his Sith name.  Firebird  Phoenix Rising 17:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No matter what the DP says, he is gone. He acknowledge it himself as well as his parents. The only reason why only himself refers to him as Darth Caedus is because no one else knows him by this name. Petiflo 12:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That is POV though. The DP is not, and more accurate in general.  Firebird  Phoenix Rising [[Image:Era-njo.png|20px]] 12:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It seems that our trend here is to call a Sith by the name that the galaxy knows them best as. At this time, the galaxy thinks it's Jacen, and therefore I think we should keep it as Jacen unless Caedus comes into more common use.131.229.185.43 21:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Jacen is a Sith and there is a good chance that he will stay a Sith. Not just Jacen but all Sith should be refered to on wookieepedia by their Sith name unless they were redeemed. Jacen Solo is dead there is only Darth Caedus. Darth Nezzera ( In umbris potestas est )[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 15:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not only that but you have yet demonstrated how POV is incorrect and DP is not. The DP once labled Lumiya as a Dark Jedi, when she was specifically refered to as being a Sith. Besides, if this is a majority decission, then you really can't stop it (no offense). So please demonstrate for us why the DP is reliable and not POV. DarthMalus 14:13, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine, I'll state it in simple words: WE DO NOT MOVE THE PAGE UNTIL AN ADMIN APPROVES. You're also ignoring the fact that my above post is over two months old.  Firebird  [[Image:Moltresheadsig.PNG]] Phoenix Rising 14:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Redemption
Will Jacen be redeemed by his family or will he simply stay a Sith and be killed by Krayt for being worthless in his order? Revan became a Sith Master and he was redeemed (though only because Malak destroyed parts of his mind). Perhaps Jacen could be redeemed as well. I know Invincible is 6 months away, but I just want to be sure. - Will Karner 9:42 A.M., 21 November 2007

Here are a few reasons why you should put the Jedi info-box back in, along with adding the "Redeemed Jedi" category as well:


 * Knowing the Skywalker family, Jacen would have to follow the family tradition and turn back to the light someday.


 * It's not Jacen's fault he turned to the dark side. Vergere and Lumiya twisted his mind in the first place, just like Sidious did grandpa Anakin.


 * The love for his offspring can redeem Jacen, knowing little Allana's age and innocence.

I hope this is "sourceful" enough for this, guys. - Will Karner 13:01 P.M., 24 November 2007

Sorry, no not really.Meesa yoda 20:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It would be interesting to see Jacen actually end up differently from his grandfather or uncle and remain lost to the Dark Side forever. That would seem more original and refreshing but that's only my opinion. Of course no other main character is supposed to die in the series so If he did stay evil he would have to be imprisoned or go into exile which seems unlikely. - Weyd 3:45 P.M., November 27, 2007

Death
I think Jaina is gonna kill him, or Han. - Revan rocks Caedus sucks December 2 2007

What about Krayt? He despises Jacen for being a cheap imitation of a Dark Lord. Perhaps when Caedus does meet the New Sith Order for the first time, his death would probably be like this:

Caedus: (relieved) Oh, my fellow Sith...

Dician: "Fellow Sith?" (laughs) I thought our master said he was the enemy, Lord Wyyrlok.

Wyyrlok I: Yes, my dear. That was what I heard from him

Caedus: (shocked) "Master?"

Wyyrlok: Release the Sith hounds.

''Cage opens. A pack of Sith hounds slowly prowls on Caedus. Caedus begins to reach for his lightsaber, but the belt was weaponless. A shadow of Caedus' demise is shown on the cliffs of Korriban.''

How's that for a death scene? Well you gotta admit, Wyyrlok I would need a first appearance. - Will Karner 8:57 P.M., 4 December 2007
 * Both of these posts are fannon and opinion. Please stop with the fannon and take opinions to the Senate Hall.Darth Balls 02:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, don't take opinions to the Senate Hall. Take them to a forum away from Wookieepedia, where they belong. Hobbes ( Tiger's Lair ) 02:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Please don't get overly negative and answer my opinions, will you? I'm only a sophomore, you know. - Will Karner 11:22 P.M., 4 November 2007
 * Age is no excuse to disregard rules and what you have been ordered to do. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 04:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank You for the support but I don't have the authority to order, I try to remind people that the talk pages is for article-betterment discussion and none of this <^>. Again PLEASE leave fannon out of Wookiepeedia and opinion on the Forum.Darth Balls 19:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The forum is not for opinion either&mdash; it's for questions about the wiki. Save the speculation for a "real" forum, not an encyclopedia. Hobbes ( Tiger's Lair ) 02:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Name Change
I really think we should change the title to Darth Caedus. As Caedus states himself: "Caedus. My name is Caedus." Maxi6 00:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * We already have this discussion on this talk page, but here's it again. Everyone else In-Universe knows him as Jacen, so we leave it Jacen. Everyone In-Universe (and out for that matter) knows Palpatine as Palpatine, not Darth Sidious, so the page is Palpatine. Same goes for Count Dooku, though Anakin Skywalker is known as Darth Vader by most everyone he has been redeemed and is mainly referred to as Anakin by major characters, so it's Anakin. By-the-by please search the talk page for a topic before creating a new one. Thank You.Darth Balls 00:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I still say we change it to Darth Caedus. I understand why you want to keep the name at Jacen Solo, but technically Jacen Solo is dead.Maxi6 00:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * Technically Jacen is dead, but literally everyone knows him as Jacen, sorry.Darth Balls 05:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

So he's going to be known by who people think he is, not who he is?Maxi6 20:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * Everyone KNOWS him as Jacen so that's what the page is, notice that all articles are past tense? That's because this happened A Long Time Ago... and that's IN-UNIVERSE not here out-of-universe. Everyone IN-UNIVERSE knows him as Jacen, so this database chronicles (read: reports the past) this accordingly.Darth Balls 22:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

New Sith Order?
How can we put the New Sith Order as one of his affiliations when he hasn't even met these Sith yet? He's probably going to die or get redeemed anyway, and Alema Rar died, so she couldn't warn Caedus about these Sith or give Caedus their "gift" for him. Besides, it is obvious he believes strongly in the Rule of Two as indicated in Inferno. Any thoughts?--Zhran 03:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's bogus, and if there's no source for it, it should be deleted. Darth Bassan94 15:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course Jacen's in the New Sith Order, but he doesn't know that yet. The Rule of Two was dissolved years ago by Krayt and that means it would be bad luck for Jacen when or if he ever finds out. Besides, the New Sith don't want him to join them because he's a cheap imitation of a Dark Lord and an idiot. What do you think? - Will Karner 5:29 P.M, 22 December 2007
 * I don't think that Jacen's in the New Sith Order, he believes he's in Darth Bane's Order and the New Sith don't want him. So there's my 2 cents.Darth Balls 00:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)