Talk:Stormtrooper/Legends

Weapons
Shouldn't the DLT-20A blaster rifle also be featured in this article, since it was fairly prominent in both A New Hope and (I believe) The Empire Strikes Back?

Source for Clone
I'm sure that I've seen it before, but which source(s) explictly state that the clone troopers that survived the Clone Wars were converted into stormtroopers? --SparqMan 01:54, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, Star Wars: Empire, for one.--Eion 02:14, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Officers
Traditionally, a platoon is led by an NCO and an officer. I haven't seen anything that says the black-uniformed officers are equivalent to the shoulder-indicated armored officers we've seen. Is it reasonable to consider the rather wimpy looking blackshirts to be Naval NCOs while the paldron'ed ones are Stormie NCOs? --SparqMan 19:50, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Rename
I would prefer to see this article as "Imperial Stormtrooper Corps" with "Stormtrooper" redirecting. Thoughts? --SparqMan 18:43, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep, with more emphasis on the organization. --Imp 18:58, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Female?
Quote: "As with much of the Imperial military, stormtroopers were predominantly male." - I thought they were entirely male, 100%.-LtNOWIS 08:21, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe Leia should have said, "Aren't you a little flat-chested for a stormtrooper?" :P -- Riffsyphon1024 08:58, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Yea I knew I saw those somewhere. -- Riffsyphon1024 09:18, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * For some reason, I vaguely recall a female cadet in Soldier for the Empire. I don't own it though. Can anyone check? --SparqMan 20:13, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Daala did enter Imperial Academy on Carida which would tend to say that femal troopers exist, but they were badly considered and almost always used for unintersting jobs far from their capacities (except for Daala of course)
 * Where does that "but they were badly considered" part come from? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You mean aside from the poor English? Jachra 21:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Please don't restart topics that haven't been posted on for a while. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Organization
What's the source for the new Stormtrooper organizational information? --SparqMan 20:12, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I can confirm the numbers. That bit is from the Imperial Sourcebook. --Imp 20:15, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Stylized Armor
From X-Wing: Wedge's Gamble, while Corran Horn is checking out security in and around the Grand Corridor: "Guards wearing a more stylized and esthetically pleasing form of stormtrooper armor maintained posts at these passages and gently redirected anyone who appeared to be lost." Have we seen or heard more about this in other sources? Is this a form of the armor we haven't seen in illustration, or just the Coruscant Guards? If it were the latter, I imagine he would have noted their red color. Thoughts? --22:58, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * More aesthetically pleasing? I'll bet it looked like the armor in Aziz's picture. ;-)  Seriously, lacking evidence to the contrary, it's probably just the Coruscant Guard; the last thing we need is ANOTHER set of fully-armored elite troopers to place.  jSarek 00:24, 31 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * The choice of spelling is his (esthetically is acceptable, but uncommon). It's pretty clear that the guards are stormtroopers, and not another group of "elite troopers" (jeez, everyone's elite these days...). It does state earlier that Corran was noting the constabulary and the stormtrooper platoons assigned to aid them, which roughly describes what the Coruscant Guard did. --SparqMan 01:27, 31 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I wasn't contesting his spelling, just repeating him to set up my punchline regarding Aziz's pic. ;-) jSarek 08:30, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Squad formations
It's also known that storm troopers are arranged in squads of nine -- 24.250.23.170

Story of the Clones
In Star Wars Force Commander, the stormtroopers are humans, but in Revenge of the Sith they are clones. Within those 19 years, how did the Clone Troopers become Stormtroopers? What happend to the clones? If the Empire had clones, why did they start replacing them with humans?
 * After RotS, the Empire began the cloning of other human templates (those who were very, very skilled), as well as humans not to be cloned. So, at the time of ANH, not all of the stormtroopers were clones from the Grand Army of the Republic. Plus, clone troopers were humans, just duplicates of Jango Fett. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:42, 21 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * In His Image has details on how Vader chose the new prime clones. From what I saw, he valued loyalty more than skill. Stormtroopers are clones of Jango, clones of other people, and recruits. I think the Empire needed more stormtroopers, and the ones they had were being depleted. Also, Kamino got damaged after the Clone Wars.-LtNOWIS 01:54, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Another thing that may explain the drop in quality from Clonetrooper to Stormtrooper is tightening of the the conditioning applied. The Kaminoans didn't like the ARC troopers, right? They thought it was playing with fire, or something, which is why they froze them to begin with... And in the end, even the regular clones were exhibiting improvised armor mods etc. Clamping down hard on this to stave off another ARC-trooper rebellion would be a natural progression. (Then again, the troopers we saw in the second trilogy were parade-quality troops rather than units who had been in extended combat for months...)--Winchester 14:46, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Their role also shifted from an assault force to an occupation force on many worlds, requiring significantly more stormtroopers. --SparqMan 17:42, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Whats the scources for stormtroopes beeing clones, I read that stormtroopers are normal born humans, recruited like other ,,normal" soldiers, and are only trained and indoctrinated better. --Dark Scipio 20:35, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The fact that some stormtroopers were former clone troopers... Admiral J. Nebulax 21:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But why should all stormtroopers be clones, while only some were fromer clone troopers and scources state, that they are recruited like normal soldiers?--Dark Scipio 15:48, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, not all stormtroopers were clones. Admiral J. Nebulax 15:51, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Appearances

 * It seems a bit ridiculous to me to have an Appearances section in an article such as this, for the same reason the Jedi article doesn't have one; they're pretty much everywhere, at least, in this case, every Imperial-era story. I say we nix it. MarcK 06:45, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe we could have a List of stormtrooper appearances page, and make it work like the Luke Skywalker and the List of Luke Skywalker appearances pages. --Azizlight 03:41, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * That would work nicely. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:45, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I´m going to make that list Hominid 19:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow is this topic old... Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Aiming issues
Any good retcons for the famed Stormtrooper inaccuracy? Were the soldiers aboard the Death Star clones of a half-blind man? --SparqMan 03:29, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * No need, the two most famous instances were due to orders: Let them escape the DS to lead it to the secret Rebel base and letting them escape Bespin and be picked up by the Executor, if they managed to escape in the first place. The Endor battle was also going fairly well until Chewie highjacked an AT-ST, so even the Ewoks can't really claim superiority if all they had were surprise ambushes. VT-16 09:37, 15 Nov 2005 (UTC)

To work in
Slave Ship mentions that standard Stormtrooper disciplinary execution was a single blaster bolt to the back of the skull. --SparqMan 07:05, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * That's interesting. Was there any more information on that, or was that all? Admiral J. Nebulax 22:06, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Quote
What is the source of that quote? -- SFH 04:09, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Good question. --AdmThrawn 04:21, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Obi-Wan's "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise" needs to be in there, too. &mdash; Silly Dan  04:38, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a suggestion for a quote: "Not that it matters how many stormtroopers die. There must be a factory that stamps them out." -Kirtan Loor, from X-Wing: Rogue Squadron. /Commander Mike 00:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going to add these both in. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Conscriptions
Did the Empire conscript soldier by Yavin, They seem to have virtually the same bad aiming and disorderly fighting as a military conscript. QX100 01:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, they definitely weren't all the same person as of 0 BBY. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:31, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Army and Navy
Why are they capitalized? - TopAce 16:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Because "Imperial Army" and "Imperial Navy" are proper nouns. Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

What's with the BS about the Stormtroopers being Commandos?
The Stormtroopers are just regular Imperial footsoldiers, and they're under the command of their offcers, NOT of Palpatine. Someone rewrite this article, it takes way too much fanfiction as canon. Stormtroopers are not regular footsoldiers, they are distinct from both Army and Navy soldiers. Here is the passage from Domuspublica.net's essay on them containing only official sources and what they state about Stormtroopers:
 * No, it doesn't. If you're unhappy with canon, find another place to file your complaints. The article is completely canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The Imperial Sourcebook and Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition both state that they "support the two arms of the military – assisting the ground forces and the Imperial fleets – but remain apart and separate from these organizations."
 * The Technical Journal of the Imperial Forces mentions that "stormtroopers support the two arms of the Emperor’s military might: the ground forces for land and sea movement and the Imperial fleet in air and space", and that "stormtroopers operate independently of the military and answer directly to the Emperor", having "their own chain of command"; as such, they "follow the Imperial army and navy at their ‘discretion.’"
 * The Official Site’s Databank: Stormtroopers states that "stormtrooper unit organization was separate to that of the Imperial Army and Navy, although this elite unit supported both arms of the Imperial Military."
 * The Revised Core Rulebook states that they "are a separate force from the troops of Imperial Forces and do not answer directly to Imperial military officers."
 * Pax Empirica – The Wookiee Annihilation succinctly states that the stormtroopers are instead the Imperial Marines (as traditional for marine corps, however, a close relationship is maintained with the Navy, the ‘other’ half of the Naval Service; Stormtroopers indicates that "the health of stormtroopers was the responsibility of the Naval Biological group"). VT-16 13:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Main quote link issue.
Okay, I think it should be linked because it shows someone how stormtroopers were like droids. Now, Kuralyov disagrees, saying that they weren't alike. But then, why would Vader have said that in the first place if they weren't alike? Not having it linked is stupid, since "mindless automatons" alone are droids. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 00:35, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I want to take Kuralyov's side on this: the quote refers to Stormtroopers, not droids, so why link to droids? If I may be allowed to use hyperbole for a second here, that's almost like putting He is as clumsy as he is stupid on the Admiral Ozzel article, and linking "clumsy" to Jar Jar Binks.  &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 01:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Except "clumsy" is not related just to Jar Jar Binks, unlike "mindless automatons" to droids. By having the link in there, it shows how stormtroopers and droid were similar, not that they were the same. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Their similarity is already implied in the quote; it shouldn't be directly linked as that gives the mistaken impression that Vader was indeed talking about actual droids. RMF 02:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's the same even without the link. It still talks about mindless automatons in the quote; what's the difference with it linked? There is none. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * ...I did say "hyperbole" and "almost like".... 8) &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 02:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I know. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack, putting the link to droids makes the quote seem like it's saying "The Empire can always use more [literal] droids". With the link left out, the reader infers that Vader is alluding to droid/stormtrooper similarities, but not specifically referencing the creation/acquisition of droids. RMF 02:21, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yet isn't "mindless automatons" droids? Having the link doesn't hurt, either. With or without the link, the quote still seems like it refers to droids rather than stormtroopers anyway. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * One can behave in a manner analogous to "mindless automatons" without being a droid, and this is the key distinction – with the link, it seems like Vader is talking about actual droids; but without it, the reader infers that Vader is in fact discussing stormtroopers. RMF 20:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And how does one make that distinction anyway? Go out and buy the book to check if it talks about stormtroopers or droids? Even without the link, one cannot clearly tell if Vader was talking about droids. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The fact that it's on the top of a page about stormtroopers is a bit of a giveaway. Kuralyov 20:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, and no. If someone sees the quote and thinks it's about droids, they might remove it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Then isn't that another reason not to include the link? RMF 20:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It could just be a reason to remove the quote entirely. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, instead of dragging this on, I give up. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Hygiene
Can troopers undress from their armor if they are performing hygiene or sleeping? Most probably yes, but I´ve never seen a trooper take his armor off and have a bath.Has anyone? Please tell me. Hominid 11:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's never been described anywhere, to my knowledge, but they wouldn't wear that armor when sleeping or taking a bath. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:56, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Nebulax Hominid 12:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. Plus, there's an image of LEGO stormtroopers from LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy in a spa on what looks to be the Death Star while wearing their helmets. It's on StarWars.com. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In star wars young jedi knights they take their armor off to sleep i read about and thought i'd contribute this information -- jedijacob 13:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, Jaceb. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Armor removal
Further issues on Hygiene Does anyone know how trooper armor is removed? We all know how Luke and Han stole trooper uniforms in ANH, but just how? My AOTC Visual dictionary says that clonetroopers armor  plates are attached to the black bodysuit through the use of magnetic panels,  but the question is if this also applies  to stormtroopers and how it is done.My theory is that the magnets are either permanent or electromagnetic, but both teories are inprobable, because a)if the magent are permanet it would requrire great physical strength to remove.:D

Other way in would be that the magnets are electromagnetic, but this is even more inprobable, because it has be controlled by  super-hidden switch, which would result in Rebels pushning a button and poof! fearsome stromtrooper is unarmored :D :P What do you think about it? Hominid 14:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Stormtroopers have to put it on piece by piece by slipping it on over their heads (after Luke, Han, Leia, and Chewbacca get out of the garbage masher in Episode IV, you can see the armor in pieces). Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Clone trooper armor is also differnt because in republic commando hard contact it can be taken of easly by commando it may be differnt for clone trooper but i dont think so __ jedijacob 14:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't know whether it was easy or hard to take off stormtrooper armor. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 15:05, 25 August 2006 (UTC).

Gamorrean Stormtroopers

 * they had Gamorreans as stormtroopers, that was dumb, because they'd be more useless and stupid then there previous bunch. If there was an intruder, they'd be killed in a snap, a quicker snap then the regular snap for the regular stormtroopers. understand? --Jabbathehuttgartogg [[Image:Desilijic Clan (Jabba’s Tattoo) .jpg|30px]] [[Image:Desilijic Clan (Jabba’s Tattoo) .jpg|30px]] 20:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought that was just the Eye of Palpatine being foolish. -LtNOWIS 20:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They weren't really stormtroopers, though. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They still needed to be said at some point. So were Tusken raders and Jawas.a little Jawa stormtrooper. Wished that was in a New hope. [laughs]. --Jabbathehuttgartogg [[Image:Desilijic Clan (Jabba’s Tattoo) .jpg|30px]] [[Image:Desilijic Clan (Jabba’s Tattoo) .jpg|30px]] 23:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Still, they were brainwashed, and I don't think that qualifies as being actual stormtroopers. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:05, 26 August 2006 (UTC)