Talk:Darth Malak/Archive3

Move to Alek Squinquargesimus?
Considering that's his birth name it seems that Malak's article should be moved there since virtually every Sith we list by their birth name unless it's unknown. For example, Darth Vader's article is located at Anakin Skywalker just as Darth Krayt's article links to A'Sharad Hett. So it seems reasonably that Darth Malak should redirect to Alek Squinquargesimus (as should Squint or Alek). Objections? --Niirfa-sa 16:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Correction about A'Sharad Hett, it appears that his article is redirected to Darth Krayt. I'd think we'd want to change that one around too but this is about Malak -> Alek. --Niirfa-sa 16:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Alek died as Darth Malak, so he should remain that. Drewton  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/c/c0/SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg/25px-SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 16:48, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Infobox image
The old infobox image looked much better and more realistic than the current one. The difference almost looks like as much as a difference between a real actor and a painting. Drewton  02:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No way. Revan's hand and lightsaber are in the way. That doesn't make for a good infobox image. -  JMAS  Hey, it's me! 02:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed (gah. Sharp pain). That and the subject is facing away from the "camera". While it's not policy that the subject be facing forward, it just awful/odd if they aren't. Way too much going on in the image anyway. Very unsuitable. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 04:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I also agree. The current one seems best. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 14:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * After looking at it again, I agree. It's a good image but not right for the infobox.  Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 15:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's perfect for the infobox. I made sure of it. Unless you are ready to throw out more suggestions, you aren't in a position to really judge. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 22:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I meant that the one I suggested wasn't right for the infobox after looking at it again, not the current one. Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 23:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Image
I think that this image below would be a good one to put in the article. Maybe at the start of the "Sith apprentice" section?--Jedi Kasra 15:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)




 * I agree. Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 17:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion template
Now that it's been months since it was added when Malak was revealed to be Alek, should the discussion template be taken down? Drewton  02:12, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Star Forge Duel Images
I took some screenshots from the Star Forge duel. Would any of these work for the article? I showed only the back of Revan so his face is not seen, and both his face and costume are almost completely hidden by the lightning in the third image. (pictures removed) Drewton  01:11, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't work at all. While I an tell what head it is, it's still too visible. Also, it suggests that Revan wielded two lightsabers, one green and one blue while wearing one of the heavy armors. Not to say they are bad shots but y'know. If you can get a shot that gets rid of simply Revan's head and he is only visibly wielding one saber (I don't want to say blue but considering Shadows and Light even if the entire image is blue) while he's wearing the Droma robes, then yeah. Maybe. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 04:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, a screenshot of him using the Mantle of the Force and in the Star Forge Robes would be more appropriate, I believe. Revan never wore a mask that resembled his Sith mask, that's one problem with Qel-Droma's vision. Why didn't they just do what they're doing with Revan in the KotOR comics, and just show the hood, with a black space?--Jedi Kasra 10:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually. The mask in the vision doesn't resemble Revans mask. It resembles a Vaccum mask. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 13:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

(pictures removed) Unfortunately, they are of an inferior quality to Drewton's images. Nevertheless, is this more what you were looking for? I know it uses Revan's dark side robes, but I always thought that the Star Forge robes were simply created to please lightsiders and are thus little more than a game mechanic.--Kessel 19:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC) (pictures removed) Drewton  02:51, 4 May 2008 (UTC) (pictures removed)
 * Using the vision as a base (though with Heart of the Guardian rather than Mantle of the Force), I took these screenshots:
 * I took some screenshots with Revan in the Droma robes with blue lightsaber, and will upload them now. I agree about the Revan robes though.   Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 02:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC)How are these ones?
 * Game machanic or not, the Star Forge robes are considered canonical. From the second gallery you posted, Drewton, I like the third and sixth images. But we still need to make it clear that Revan's appearance is customizable, and the way he looks in the pic should not be taken as the "canonical" Revan.--Jedi Kasra 16:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Should I take some screenshots with Revan in the Star Forge robes? Either Star Forge robes or Droma robes could be considered canonical, I think, since he has the Droma robes in the vision.  Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 19:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would stick with the Qel-Droma Robes for now. I actually hava a fan-fic with Revan using both the Star Forge robes and the Qel-Droma robes. The Qel-Droma "robe" in the comic Shadows and Light actually looks to be nothing more than a cape. But I'm getting off subject. If you want, a pic is really needed for the Star Forge Robes article. The current image for the Star Forge robes article is too dark, in my opinion. Again, I'm getting off subject.--Jedi Kasra 21:06, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's another gallery of the ones I like the best.--Jedi Kasra 21:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll take screenshots of the Star Forge robes tonight. Anyways, in case anyone wants to compare or Revan's robes are agreed on, I took screenshots of the duel with the Revan robes. Even if he didn't use his Darth robes for the duel, you just see a cape/hood in most of them which is what is in in the vision. (pictures removed)

(pictures removed) (pictures removed)
 * You might want to put a diccussion about this on Revan's talk page. Those are all really good, but I'd have to go with these here:--Jedi Kasra 23:52, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to say that I'd go with NONE of these. Not on quality or whats in them exactly but because there isn't any room in the article. Pictures support text. Not the other way around. Now, if you were deciding on one for Duel on the Star Forge, then yeah. Whatever. But there simply isn't enough room. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 02:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean more than one of those, of course. I was just giving lots of options.  We could replace either close-up of him in 'Dark Lord of the Sith' with a dueling image.  Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 02:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that I look at the pictures again, none of the ones where he's wearing Darth Revan's robes are really appropriate, since anyone who's played the game or seen a pictre of Darth Revan will know that he shouldn't be wearing his Sith robes. I would suggest this pic for the Duel on the Star Forge article. Cool pics, though.--Jedi Kasra 03:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Mask?
Whats the thing over his mouth?16:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A cybernetic jaw, as it says in the infobox. A mask would cover one's entire face.  Drewton  SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 16:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I was gonna ask the same thing, but, why does he have it? Did his mouth break or something or a duel?- '''Colonel Solo GA Roundel.svgtic Alliance Gaurd 21:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As it says in the article, Malak's master, Darth Revan removed Malak's entire jaw with a lightsaber strike.  Aqua  Unasi  21:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That can't be right, unless it happened in the Mandalorian Wars. Exile Quote: "I forgot how annoying Malak could be before he lost his Jaw." Quote location: Ludo Kressh's tomb, vision with Jedi Malak. It's one of the options. When I go through the cave next time I'll get a Screenshot. Jono R 09:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Homeworld
Apparently, Alek's homeworld is in the sector Quelii, or is a planet called Quelii itself. "Including Alek of Quelii, whose rogue actions in the Adasca affair..."

- Lucien Draay

Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 23:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Progress
A lot of progress has been made on this article lately, almost daily since April. Since March of this year, this article has gone from 5,853 to 8,787 words, which is a difference of 2934 words - almost 3000. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron )

Rogue Moon Prophecy
Now we all know that the Jedi Convenant's seers envisioned that a red-armored Sith Lord would destroy the Jedi Order and each master also saw their own deaths at the blade of the figure.

In the vision Raana Tey did die on on Taris during the Mandalorian invasion stoke by a lightsaber. Feln was cut by the red-armored Sith on Odryn, but we don't know if he dies by Zayne's hands. Xamar dies when his own allies start blasting his ship. And Q'Anilia saw dead jedi everywhere while she rushed to save a dead Krynda Draay on Coruscant. The presence of the red-armored Sith Lord is felt there. At the time of their visions, their Padawans wore similar suits as the armored Sith. As a result, they assumed that one of their students would fall to the dark side; thus leading to the conception and inniation of the Padawan Massacre of Taris.

What's that have to do with Malak?

Well, the thing that caught my eye was at the end of KotOR #10, when Alek is leaving Flashpoint station, he thanks Jarael for the spacesuit he is given. RED-ARMORED space suit, that is, identical to the one the padawans wore. And we know that Malak is the one that would destroy the Jedi Order. So we can presume that he has a role in the prophecy.

Another strange thing is that Alek was on Taris when the padawan massacre occured but I don't think he was influencing their judment in a way. The masters had the vision on the Rogue Moon, not on Taris way before the massacre happened.

Well. The master's vision isn't 100% true. Judging by the fact that Raana Tey wasn't stabbed by Zayne, but by Shel Jelevan can be proof that Zayne is not the one fulfilling the prophecy. Feln dies on Odryn alright, thinking he is slashed by the Sith Lord, but we must wait a few days to find out if he dies by Zayne's hands or by Alek's. Zayne did ask Alek for a big favor in the previous numbers, and we still haven't find out what that is. It is possible that he comes to Odryn and saves Zayne, killing Feln in the process. When Xamar sees his own allies blasting his ship, it could be the moment Revan and Malak take over a part of the Republic's fleet in the war against the mandalorians.

We'll just have to wait for the end of the Exalted to see how things come out.--Seth danny 17:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow. You just wasted all that time posting speculation nonsense and then I just wasted a good minute of my life reading it. I find it curious that nobody realizes to read the freakin template at the top that says the talk page is for discussion on the article and not the character itself. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 17:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well now, if this speculation comes true, then that proves the article lacks a new sub-chapter that would be related to the RMP, doesn't it? So it's not only about the character, it's how you look at it.--Seth danny 20:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keyword there being 'if'. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 21:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "It's how you look at it." Exactly.  Speculation about Lucien being the Revanchist could be true.  It doesn't mean it will.  Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 21:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Search for the Star Forge
Revan and Malak first found the Star Map on Kashyyyk in 3,961 BBY, which would be a year before the Battle of Malachor V. Should the search for the Star Forge therefore come before the Battle of Malachor V in the article? Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Alek's Jedi Master
I was reading the dialogue files for The Sith Lords, and Mical says that Zhar was his master. This isn't a dispute of whose master was who, rather the source. I have played the game a million times, and never could get the Disciple to say anything like that, although it's most likely a bug. In the files it's part of the conversation in which the Exile asks him what his problems with the Jedi are.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Loss of Jaw
All right I was reading the article and it says that Revan removed his jaw and gives the source "Heritage of the Sith." I've gone back and read that article over and over and found nothing that says that. Could someone tell me what the source is for Revan having removed Malak's jaw?
 * The other source there is Insider #100. If that's wrong, then it's the Hasbro cardback for Darth Malak. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Squint is not yet canon!
I think we're taking a bit of a leap of faith here by combining squint with malak. Alright, I know it's obvious... but its yet to be official.
 * Yes it is. It's from the Essential Guide to the Force. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Even if it didn't, the preview currently up for KotOR #31 has Alek using an alias of Captain Malak and is shown with the familiar tattoos on his head. That makes it pretty darn official to me. And annoying, since it was a waste of time to make it a whole 'is he or isn't he' mystery when he gets outted by an Essential Guide, not the comic...DGCatAniSiri 01:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the way I saw the preview, Captain Malak isn't merely a cover, it's his actual name now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Quote, again....
OK. The quote from Darth Sion about Malak at the beginning o fthe article has got to go. It's nowhere in the game, it's nowhere in the files for the game. Surely there is a better quote?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. It's during the duel on Malachor. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 19:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Except I've played the game a million times, as a dark-sider and a light-sider, as both a man and a woman, and explored nearly every possible dialogue option, and he said nothing to me about Malak.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Kasra. At first, I thought I was merely crazy to be unable to find it but considering how a second opinion says that it's not there. It is odd though. Since I do remember him saying it. Though that maybe crazy talking. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 03:57, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

''Malak had strength, and embraced it, saw his oppertunity and took it. The Lord Revan had a chance to rule over an Empire, to heal this broken galaxy, make it strong again. Instead he surrendered it to weakness, and ran away.'' That is the exact quote, I've just played the game and Sion definately says it on Malachor V. I agree its not the best lead quote though. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 08:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

''The Lord Revan had the galaxy at his feet, could have made it strong. At the height of his power, he left this place... fled this galaxy.'' and a bit later: ''It does not matter. The Lord Revan had the galaxy at his feet, could have made it strong, and he surrendered it to weakness.Like you, Revan touched power and turned away. The chance to heal this fractured galaxy, and he turned away.'' However, there is no mention of Malak in that passage, which makes mentioning it redudant. And yes, I did go use a search function for "malak" to go through the entire dialogue of the pc version of TSL in an attempt to find a passage saying something like what is stated above without finding it. Jediphile 13:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Though I was unable to find it either, I remember hearing that exactly. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact that you guys only heard it a few times might be an in-game bug, perhaps you are supposed to hear that all the time, but because of that bug only hear it occassionally. It could be the fact that I play only the Xbox version. Or maybe it's the dialogue choices, could you post the completre conversation to that point, KAJ?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a quote similar to that from Sion:
 * I can vouch for it. I'm on the Xbox, if that matters. 72.74.197.103 03:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Real name
While I realise that Malak's name has been established as "Alek Squinquargesimus", it is worth noting that the Knights of the Old Republic comic book, issue 31: "Turnabout", published july 2008, reveals a different perspective on the matter, which I suppose might be seen as a retcon of the name. In a secret meeting with jedi masters Vrook and Vandar, Alek - using the name "Captain Malak" - corrects Vrook's attempted use of his alleged surname and says:

''It was always just Alek. We didn't have surnames on Quelii, only names of our home villages. That's what wound upon the immigration records after we escaped. But it's Captain Malak today, thanks to the new arrest order for knights who want to joni the war against the Mandalorians.''

So it would follow that his does not have a surname at all, but that Squinquargesimus is simply the village on Quelii that he came from, and that he was listed as such by the Republic and similarly nicknamed "Squint" by his fellow jedi as a result. Jediphile 15:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation page
Considering how relatively insignificant the rodian Malak is to Star Wars and the fact that there is a link to the page from Darth Malak's page, why are you taken to the disambiguation page if you type in "malak"? Considering that Darth Malak is far more significant to Star Wars, it seems quite clear to me that that's the page people would be looking for in the vast majority of cases when they type in "malak". Frankly, I'd much rather be taken to the "wrong" article than to a disambiguation page, as long as finding the disambiguation page after that is easy. Jediphile 15:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but it's not encyclopedic. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Aricle
Whoever wrote the legacy to Malak, seemed like they had something agasnit him
 * UIt should be written again. Because he was actually smart, and powerful. He want to use Bastilla to destroy the jedi, he used fea press the jedi back--Suncec 19:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, what's the point of having a Legacy section if it says how much of a brute he is. --The Darkness  ( No, I am your father! ) 19:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Malak? Smart? The Legacy section was written with NPOV and anything that could be against him is from characters in TSL. Malak really wasn't that good. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:18, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Malak's scheme was to capture Bastilla and use her agasint the republic. And since he had the Starforge his supplies were limtless. Almost every jedi you met including the council, feared to battle Malak. Revan was trying to save the republic, while Malak wanting to detroy the jedi and the republic.
 * If you're saying that to support him, it's what the article itself says: he simply used brute force. No strategies, no master plans. If not for Revan, Malak would never have discovered the existance of the Star Forge. But this isn't the place to talk about that. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I am not trying to turn this into the forum, if that is what you are thinling. I am discussing the legacy section. Malak did have a scheme. He even used the star forge to new lenghts, using it to give him power, he even fired at his master and tried to kill him. That is the reason for the game. Malak had to be above the common sith brute status,if that was the case no one fear him, they would simply use trickerey to kill him. Malak was stronger then he was smart, but he was still smart--Suncec 15:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

How is that a scheme? "He even used the star forge to new lenghts, using it to give him power." You supported the brute force point there. Every Sith apprentice tried to overthrow their Master. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

All that can be read in the Legacy section is based on in-game dialog from KotOR II, which gives a reliable source of how Malak was remembered. Remember that we're not talking about how worthy of a Sith Lord he was, but how he was remembered. - TopAce (Talk) 16:50, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Was he redeemed?
When you beat Malak on the Forge his word choice and tone make him sound regretfull. could we consider this like half redemption? could we compare him to lets say judas?
 * There is a mod on filefront that will save him. So, there's a chance for him to become good. Jono R 10:22, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Player mad mods don't count towards canon though, since they aren't officially liscenced. We can only consider the canonical game endings, and what they entail, when determining whether or not he was redeemed. Darth Endis 04:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Cut alternate ending
I seem to recall a discussion on the Holowan Lab forum about a cut Light Side ending for the first KoTOR game, where it was possible for Revan to redeem/bring back Malak to the Light Side during their confronatation at the Star Forge.

I could be remembering the discussion incorrectly, but I do beleve that the sequence of events would require maxed "Light", and that it would be occur through conversation, with either minimal or no combat.

I'd like to ask that someone better at research look into this some more.

158.104.190.216 06:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Fan created content. Not cut.-- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 04:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

You sure he's dead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4iL5uUDf5I thats the trailer for the Old Republic MMO, and that sith leading the attack looks an awful lot like a certain sith I remember we spared at the end of the battle of the start forge. It even sounds like him! Padawan Greil 22:52, 01 June 2009

Infobox image
Would anyone mind if I changed the infobox image to this one? The current one just seems... off to me. I'm gonna go ahead and change it, but if anyone has any issues with it, discuss it here.

Current image

 * 1) Proposed image is concept art. Current image is promotional game art. Promotional image almost always takes precedent over concept art. -  JMAS  Hey, it's me! 03:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Proposed was, I believe, our first Malak image...and I've never liked it. Infobox images need to be more portrait-like. Preview it in the infobox and makes the article Wikipedia whipped up in five minutes. I can't even say that it's the concept art of it - since it's a loading screen in the game.-- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 07:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Passed GA and is up for FA with this image. The current one will serve better on the main page if and when it becomes an FA. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 07:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) The current one is definately better than the proposed. I just don't like the angle of the old screensaver. What I think would be better than either images, however, would be an in-game screenshot. Something in this line of thinking . How would people feel about that? Jayce Carver
 * 5) This is a high-quality image, the best we have.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

How did Darth Malak eat?
It's been bugging me. Did he take IV fluids or something, because the screenshot we have without the jaw plate shows a glowing blue device over where his throat would have connected to his mouth.

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/thumb/7/77/Malak_Jawless.jpg/150px-Malak_Jawless.jpg

So how does he do it?


 * the force can give one powers that might be considered.... unnatural ~Padawan Greil


 * I suppose we can assume he was nourished the same way Darth Vader was, intravenously, however I know of no canon source of this, so it is speculation, and can not be mentioned in the article.  OLIOSTER  (talk) Imperial Emblem.svg 06:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

New Opening Quote
I think this, from Masks, would be more fitting:


 * There’s nobody left who remembers who I was before. But they’ll remember Malak. I’ll make sure of that.

Thoughts? ( Uli Talk 18:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Just remembered that I don't need a consensus when something is plainly awesome, so I went and did it. :P ( Uli Talk 19:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC))


 * I have to agree that I like this quote much more than the other one, but for the future, I think that it would be good to get a consensus for any significant changes like this since this article is a Good article and is up on the FAN page as well. Cylka  -talk- 20:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like this quote too. I think we should change it to this quote.

Behind the Scenes: The Name
Malak is a Hebrew word meaning "to rule".

http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/4427.htm

This may or may not have been the intent, but is possible as Malak ruled the Sith/renagade Jedi with the "death" of Revan and most Sith names have some double meaning.

Malak's Tattoos?
Are they sith tattoos or what?


 * Obviously not, since he had them before he was a Sith. And please, sign your posts with four ~'s Ruthless Xero 19:54, 26 July 2009 (UTC)