Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2008 January 5

Session Start: Sat Jan 05 18:59:00EST 2008 Session Ident: #wookieepedia [18:59] <@Darth_Culator> !nicks [18:59] <@Nuku-Nuku> Darth_Culator: Azzt|Undead, ChanServ, D-Fender1031, Darth_Culator, EatAtJoes, GHe|BUSY, Gonk|Busy, GreenTentacle, Grey-man, GT|away, Huntster, Imp|zzz, Ineedaname, Jaymach, Jedi_Goodwood, Jedimca0, LO|Food, LtNOWIS, Madclaw, Muppets101, Muuurgh, Nuku-Nuku, Phoenix-busy, Pinky, Redemption, Riffsyphon1024, SillyDan, Sly_Assassin, supergeeky1, The4dotelipsis, Toprawa, whop, and Whopper [18:59] <@Darth_Culator> There we go. [19:00]  arrg! ping [19:00]  never ping the spy! [19:00] <@Riffsyphon1024> I Bid You All Dark Greetings! [19:00] <@EatAtJoes> Anyone logging? [19:00] <@Riffsyphon1024> Welcome to the first Mofference of 2008 everyone [19:00] * EatAtJoes is now known as Graestan [19:00] <@The4dotelipsis> Mofference? [19:00] <@SillyDan> Who's logging? [19:00] <+Jedimca0> Dark Greetings [19:00] <@Riffsyphon1024> Mrofforence was what you were expecting 4Dot? [19:00] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'This ist teh morfference. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com Â· Site status: Cloudy, with a chance of database lockage. Â· Please respect the IRC rules. Â· Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org Â· Inflatable Forklift committee Jan. 5/6 Sat/Sun 0:00UTC�' [19:00] <@Riffsyphon1024> Jedi I already did it [19:01] * +Azzt|Undead bids thee all dimly lit greetings [19:01] <+LO|Food> I am, but you can't rely on me. [19:01] <+Jedimca0> ah [19:01] * supergeeky1 is as well. [19:01] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'This ist teh morfference. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com Â· Topic: ?�' [19:01] <@Graestan> Imp|zzz wants to present some RFA rule change ideas [19:01] <@SillyDan> Revisiting some of the RFA rules. --Imperialles 21:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC) [19:01] <@Riffsyphon1024> the first order of business today is Revisiting RFA rules [19:01] * Azzt|Undead is now known as Azzt|Morfference [19:01] <@SillyDan> Imperialles? [19:02] <@Riffsyphon1024> apparently so [19:02] <+LO|Food> Now for the first order of business...ALL HAIL THE HYPNO_TOAD [19:02] <+LO|Food> *- [19:02] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Revisiting RFA rules. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:02] <@Riffsyphon1024> LO please [19:02] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +vvv D-Fender1031 Huntster Ineedaname [19:02] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +vvv Madclaw Muppets101 Muuurgh [19:02] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +vvv Phoenix-busy Pinky Redemption [19:02] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +vvv Sly_Assassin supergeeky1 Toprawa [19:02] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +vv whop Whopper [19:03] <@Darth_Culator> Alrighty then. [19:03] * LO|Food is now known as LO|Whocares [19:03] <@Riffsyphon1024> so did he say exactly what was of issue in the RFA? [19:03] <@Graestan> The only thing Imp mentioned to me was that he wanted to either lower or do away with the age restrictions. [19:03] <@LtNOWIS> Why do they need revision? [19:03] <@Graestan> I would opt with lowering them. [19:03] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [19:03] <@Riffsyphon1024> so allowing people under 18 [19:03] <+LO|Whocares> Never! [19:03] <@Graestan> We have users who are quite capable, and more than ready, IMO, but are too young. [19:03] * Cactuar83 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-766aeaf5fd840491) has joined #wookieepedia [19:03] <@Darth_Culator> I know of a few potential candidates. [19:03] <@Grey-man> I say no [19:03] <@Riffsyphon1024> 16 possibly? [19:04] <+Jedimca0> I'm not sure. [19:04] <@Gonk|Busy> I vote no [19:04] <+Jedimca0> 16 does sound food to me. [19:04] <@SillyDan> Weren't those primarily to brush off one or two annoying teenagers who'd never have passed an RFA anyway? [19:04] <+LO|Whocares> Food? [19:04] <+Jedimca0> *good [19:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> show of hands against this idea alltogether? [19:04] <+Jedimca0> damn keyboard [19:04] <+LO|Whocares> Hands? [19:04] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Okay I'm here. [19:04] <@Darth_Culator> I'm in favor of lowering them. How low, no idea really. [19:04] <@SillyDan> 16 sounds reasonable [19:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> the lag is starting [19:04] <+LO|Whocares> I'll just go with that [19:04] <+LO|Whocares> Lag? [19:05] <@GreenTentacle> 16 is okay with me. [19:05] <@The4dotelipsis> 16, yea. [19:05] <@Graestan> I'd say 16. [19:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> 16 isnt too young but not 13 [19:05] <+LO|Whocares> Get a better connection. [19:05] <@Grey-man> 16, no [19:05] <@LtNOWIS> I'm ok with that I suppose. [19:05] <@GreenTentacle> But I hardly think it's necessary. [19:05] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'm against lowering the age. [19:05] <+Jedimca0> Cactuar83 just got here, will he get voice? [19:05] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Cactuar83 [19:05] <@LtNOWIS> We won't nom them if they're immature. [19:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> Junior Admins [19:05] * +Azzt|Morfference 16 [19:05] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:05] <@LtNOWIS> Yeah, I kinda agree with GT. [19:05] <+Cactuar83> The age is fine [19:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes its all about maturity observed over some period [19:05] <@Graestan> Grey-man> I want to hear your reasoning. [19:05] <@LtNOWIS> We don't really need to change it. [19:05] <+Toprawa> what is the current age restriction? [19:06] <+Cactuar83> The age is fine [19:06] <@Graestan> 18 [19:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> 18 [19:06] <@Grey-man> Graestan > I don't think I require it here [19:06] <+Azzt|Morfference> 18 [19:06] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Keep it at 18. [19:06] <@Grey-man> the current age limits are fine, IMO [19:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> what about 17? [19:06] <@The4dotelipsis> Some people under the age conduct themselves in a manner far more mature than some well over the limit... [19:06] <+Toprawa> i wouldn't lower it than 17. [19:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> 4dot:true [19:06] <@Grey-man> then those people can wait until they meet the rules [19:06] <+Jedi_Goodwood> That's true Dot, but still. [19:06] <+Azzt|Morfference> hmmm [19:06] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Greyman. [19:06] * @Gonk|Busy could live with 17 [19:06] <+Jedi_Goodwood> If they're serious they can wait. [19:06] <+LO|Whocares> 17 then. [19:06] <+Azzt|Morfference> do we really need more admins? [19:06] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [19:06] <+Cactuar83> All right [19:07] <@Riffsyphon1024> thats always been a contested question [19:07] <+Jedimca0> yep [19:07] <+LO|Whocares> Tons more [19:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I would say we do. [19:07] <+Azzt|Morfference> then...17 [19:07] <@Riffsyphon1024> several admins have retired from full service [19:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Not tons, but a few more couldn't hurt. We'll get to why later. [19:07] <@The4dotelipsis> A good amount of admins is a long way from being a bad thing. [19:07] <@The4dotelipsis> There's no accounting for who'll leave Wookieepedia on a whim. [19:07] <@Graestan> After me? Who else could you need? B) [19:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:07] <+LO|Whocares> Shut up. [19:07] * +Azzt|Morfference 9_9 [19:07] <@Riffsyphon1024> show of hands in support of lowering the age to 17 [19:07] <@The4dotelipsis> And then we might have to resort to, God forbit, shotgun adminshippery. [19:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Nay. [19:07] * +Azzt|Morfference raises hand [19:07] <@Graestan> Yea to 17. [19:07] <@The4dotelipsis> Nay. 16, says I. [19:07] <+Madclaw> yay [19:07] <@Grey-man> No [19:07] * +LO|Whocares shows his hand [19:07] * @Darth_Culator would prefer 16, but 17 is fine. [19:07] <@Riffsyphon1024> yea [19:07] <+Cactuar83> I [19:07] <+Jedimca0> Support, 17 [19:07] * +supergeeky1 shrugs and raises hand. [19:07] * +Muppets101 raises hand :) [19:08] <@The4dotelipsis> 17 is a bee's dick of a difference. There's no point. [19:08] <@GreenTentacle> Sure. [19:08] <@Riffsyphon1024> 17 makes everyone happy somewhat [19:08] <@The4dotelipsis> If you're going to change it, bloody well change it. Don't fizz about like this. [19:08] <@Darth_Culator> 4dot: Any progress in that direction is good. [19:08] <@Riffsyphon1024> I dont know how long a bee's dick is exactly [19:08] <+Azzt|Morfference> 4dot: Bees don't have dicks. [19:08] <@Darth_Culator> Baby steps. [19:08] <+Jedimca0> I'd like to see 16, but since that's not happening. [19:08] <@Grey-man> Per 4dot [19:08] <+LO|Whocares> Exactly [19:08] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I would only say 17 with the proviso that the person should have graduated from high school or secondary school or whatever the equivalent is. [19:08] <@LtNOWIS> Pfft. [19:08] <+Azzt|Morfference> why? [19:09] <@Graestan> Yeah; why? High school is no feat. [19:09] <@Riffsyphon1024> it allows a good fraction of users to be nominated whereas they would need to wait a year [19:09] <@The4dotelipsis> School is as much use as tits on a bull. [19:09] <@Grey-man> meh, now we're getting off topic [19:09] <+Cactuar83> tsk tsk [19:09] <@LtNOWIS> The degree is meaningless [19:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:09] <@Riffsyphon1024> yea some 30 year olds still dont have their GED [19:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yeah, let's go for a straight up vote as to change it, then we can decide what age to change it to. [19:09] * +Jedi_Goodwood votes no. [19:09] <@Riffsyphon1024> ok support a change, yes or no? [19:09] <@Grey-man> No [19:09] <@Darth_Culator> Ya. [19:09] <@The4dotelipsis> Yes. [19:09] <+Muppets101> yes [19:09] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes [19:09] <+Jedimca0> Yes [19:09] <+supergeeky1> Yes. [19:10] <+Toprawa> nay [19:10] <@Graestan> Yeah [19:10] * +Azzt|Morfference yes [19:10] <@Riffsyphon1024> ok we're getting somewhere [19:10] <@LtNOWIS> Abstain [19:10] <+LO|Whocares> Yay verily. [19:10] <@Gonk|Busy> no [19:10] <@GreenTentacle> Meh. [19:10] <@Riffsyphon1024> or not [19:10] <+Azzt|Morfference> GT: Meh= :? [19:10] <+Toprawa> are there reallly that many valuable youths to warrant a change? [19:10] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Looks like the yays have it. [19:10] <@Graestan> I don't think so, but some do. [19:10] <@SillyDan> yes, since there are minors who more active admins think would be good admins [19:10] <@Riffsyphon1024> lots of indifferents I sense [19:10] <@The4dotelipsis> Actually, yes. [19:11] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Toprawa, yes there are actually. [19:11] <@Darth_Culator> Two, possibly three that I can think of. [19:11] <@GreenTentacle> Azzt|Morfference: Couldn't care less. [19:11] <@Riffsyphon1024> Names? [19:11] * +Azzt|Morfference nods [19:11] <@Graestan> JorrelFraajic [19:11] <@LtNOWIS> I was 17 when I got nommed, I believe. [19:11] <@Riffsyphon1024> sounds good [19:11] <@Graestan> That's the only name that I think of. [19:11] <@Darth_Culator> Off topic. :-P [19:11] <@Graestan> Ok. [19:11] <@Grey-man> yes, off topic [19:11] <@Riffsyphon1024> it demonstrates what users we know are capable [19:12] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Well it seems that most here support a change. What do we change it to? [19:12] <@Darth_Culator> If Imp|zzz was awake, this topic might be more interesting. [19:12] <@Graestan> So, majority says yes to change. [19:12] <+Azzt|Morfference> 16 [19:12] <+Jedi_Goodwood> 16 and 17 seem to be popular. [19:12] <+Toprawa> 17 [19:12] <@Riffsyphon1024> 16 or 17 [19:12] <@SillyDan> CT track on 16, 17, or 18? [19:12] <@The4dotelipsis> I think with several months of dedicated contribution, Fiolli could be a contendah. [19:12] <+supergeeky1> 16. [19:12] <+Jedimca0> 16 [19:12] <@Grey-man> If we're going to change it, I'd say 17 [19:12] <@Graestan> I'd say 17 upon consideration. [19:12] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'd go for 17 personally. [19:12] <+LO|Whocares> Either or. [19:12] <+Muppets101> 16 [19:12] * +Azzt|Morfference ping Imp|zzz on the off-chance that he pays attention [19:12] <@Riffsyphon1024> 17 for I [19:12] <@The4dotelipsis> 16. [19:12] <@The4dotelipsis> 16 or bust. [19:12] <@Grey-man> however, I also believe that we should put this on a CT for the *whole* site to vote [19:12] <@Darth_Culator> I'd CT it. CT created the limit in the first place. [19:12] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes good idea [19:12] <@Graestan> per Grey-man [19:12] <@Graestan> CT! [19:12] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Agreed per Greyman. [19:12] <+Azzt|Morfference> Meh. [19:12] <@SillyDan> per Culator [19:12] <+Azzt|Morfference> go for it. [19:12] <@Riffsyphon1024> at least here we get an idea [19:12] <@Graestan> Allin favor of CT? [19:12] <@Graestan> Yes [19:12] <@LtNOWIS> Might as well be 16. [19:12] <@Riffsyphon1024> CT [19:12] <+Toprawa> yay [19:13] <@SillyDan> CT! [19:13] <+Muppets101> Yes [19:13] <@Grey-man> yes [19:13] <+Azzt|Morfference> I guess. [19:13] <@GreenTentacle> Yes. [19:13] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yae. [19:13] <+Muuurgh> Yes. [19:13] <+Jedimca0> CT it. [19:13] <+Cactuar83> Fine [19:13] <@Riffsyphon1024> good good [19:13] <+LO|Whocares> Like every mofference. 9_9 [19:13] <+Jedi_Goodwood> !markov [19:13] <@Riffsyphon1024> is that all within this? [19:13] <@Graestan> Then either Imp or I will CT it, unless one of you does it during the Moot. [19:13] <@Riffsyphon1024> for RFA? [19:13] <@SillyDan> Anything else on this topic? [19:13] <+Azzt|Morfference> Jedi_Goodwood: o.O [19:13] <@Graestan> Next Topic! [19:13] <@Graestan> User of the Year [19:13] <@Riffsyphon1024> vetos? [19:13] <+LO|Whocares> Anymore proposed revisions? [19:13] <@The4dotelipsis> Per LO. [19:13] <@SillyDan> I would like to see a User of the year award made. The twelve Users of the month will be put up for election starting of January 1st. The elections will end January 30th and the votes will be counted. The User with the most votes wins and he or she will be announced the following day. --Kilson 18:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC) [19:13] <@Nuku-Nuku> Oh, well. My apologies [19:13] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Any more rules changes for RFA? [19:13] <@The4dotelipsis> Mofferences ARE for everyone. [19:14] <@The4dotelipsis> User of the year? [19:14] <@Riffsyphon1024> vetos I thought would have been an issue [19:14] <@The4dotelipsis> No, no. [19:14] <+Cactuar83> A user of the year [19:14] <@Graestan> I am personally against User of the Year. The site changes too much in the space of a year. [19:14] <@The4dotelipsis> This invites blocs. [19:14] <+Azzt|Morfference> No. [19:14] <@Riffsyphon1024> hold off from UOTY [19:14] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: User of the year award. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:14] <@Grey-man> I'm against the User of the Year too [19:14] <+Cactuar83> award would be cool [19:14] <+Azzt|Morfference> Bad idea [19:14] <@Grey-man> WOTM is enough [19:14] <@GreenTentacle> Heck no. [19:14] <@Graestan> per Greyman [19:14] <@The4dotelipsis> Blocs, cliques, even more eletism... [19:14] <@Gonk|Busy> Per Grey-man [19:14] <@SillyDan> Against -- WOTM is enough [19:14] <+Toprawa> against - what happens when no one remembers what someone did back in Jan, Feb? [19:14] <+Jedi_Goodwood> No to UotY. [19:14] <@Riffsyphon1024> dammit guys we werent done [19:14] <@The4dotelipsis> It would be sheer political hell. [19:14] <+Muppets101> againist [19:14] <+Madclaw> Per Greyman [19:14] <+Azzt|Morfference> WOTM is fine [19:14] * +supergeeky1 says no to UOTY. [19:14] <@SillyDan> Riff: we were. [19:14] <@Graestan> per Toprawa [19:14] <@LtNOWIS> I don't remember the whole year. [19:14] <+LO|Whocares> Wouldn't it be WOTY? [19:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> yes [19:15] <@Grey-man> anyways [19:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> whatev [19:15] <@Riffsyphon1024> well I see that this topic is unanimous [19:15] <@Grey-man> yes [19:15] <@Grey-man> next topic [19:15] <+Jedi_Goodwood> That idea died a quick death. [19:15] <+Jedimca0> Might be cool, but per Toprawa. WOTM is enough. [19:15] <@LtNOWIS> Who remembers who was editing in March and April? Nobody, that's who. [19:15] * +Phoenix-busy (n=Phoenix-@wikipedia/Phoenix-wiki) Quit ("ÆƒuÄ±ÊŒÉÇl"�) [19:15] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I was. [19:15] <+LO|Whocares> Heh. [19:15] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:15] <+Jedimca0> I know I was editing back then... [19:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> Yeah. [19:15] <+Jedimca0> but that's it... [19:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> Edit histories 9_9 [19:15] <@Darth_Culator> Moving on? [19:15] <+LO|Whocares> I hear that in the Professor's voice [19:15] <@The4dotelipsis> Move along, move along. [19:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> Next. [19:15] <@Riffsyphon1024> alright then we agree that we're done with topics 1 and 2 [19:15] <@SillyDan> next! [19:16] <@Grey-man> Yes, move along [19:16] <@Riffsyphon1024> lag! [19:16] <+Muuurgh> Against unless Riff is retroactively made WOTY of 2005. :p [19:16] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Trash compactor policies. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:16] <@SillyDan> Trash compactor policy: specifically, Forum:Two weeks for TC discussions? and Forum:Valid reasons to put something back in the trash have stagnated on the CT. —Silly Dan (talk) 23:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC) [19:16] <@Graestan> Dan: This is your proposal. [19:16] <+LO|Whocares> Billy West be praised. [19:16] <@Riffsyphon1024> nice try [19:16] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Two weeks seems to be the accepted period. [19:16] <+LO|Whocares> I don't get the question. [19:16] <@SillyDan> We passed the "two weeks" thing, so we needn't discuss it here [19:16] <+Azzt|Morfference> hm [19:16] * +Muppets101 (n=phillipf@wikia/Muppets101) Quit ("bye all"�) [19:16] <+LO|Whocares> Ah. [19:16] <+Jedi_Goodwood> The good reasons to reopen one CT has stalled. [19:16] <+Jedimca0> Per SillyDan. [19:16] <@SillyDan> There's some question on when we can re-trash an article [19:17] <@Riffsyphon1024> acceptable to nom articles already saved from deletion? [19:17] <@SillyDan> Yes, in some circumstances. [19:17] <@The4dotelipsis> I don't see why there should be such a kibosh in re-trashing something. [19:17] <@Riffsyphon1024> are there examples? [19:17] <+Azzt|Morfference> variable [19:17] <@SillyDan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Valid_reasons_to_put_something_back_in_the_trash [19:17] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I would say yes, if there's s good reason posted. [19:17] <@The4dotelipsis> We're a Wiki, for chrissakes. [19:17] <@SillyDan> The " [19:17] <@Graestan> I don't see why putting something back in the TC is so bad. They can debate again. [19:17] <@The4dotelipsis> Things change all the time. It's dynamic. [19:17] <+Jedimca0> yes... but not because the first one failed. [19:17] <@Riffsyphon1024> I dont believe in Chris 4Dot [19:17] <+LO|Whocares> If it really doesn't deserve trashing it'll be saved again [19:18] <@Darth_Culator> Some people like to wage wars of attrition/annoyance against articles they don't like. [19:18] <@Graestan> Ah. [19:18] <@Darth_Culator> I'm not a big fan of re-TCing. [19:18] <@Grey-man> as long as it's not retrashed because of a personal vendetta, I couldn't care less [19:18] <+Jedi_Goodwood> That's true but isn't it ususally easy to spot such things? [19:18] <@Darth_Culator> You'd THINK so. [19:18] <@Riffsyphon1024> I think if its passed once, dont try it again [19:18] <@SillyDan> The "Near-Hutt" page was TC'd twice: once with "no consensus" due to stagnation of discussion, and secondly with unanimous "what is this doing here anyway?" resulting in deletion. [19:18] <+Azzt|Morfference> Well, if someone keeps trying, warn them, then *banhammah* [19:18] <@Graestan> Proposed policy: TC cannot have same reason twice in a row? [19:18] <@LtNOWIS> eh... [19:18] <+Azzt|Morfference> meh [19:18] <@Riffsyphon1024> yea at least change the reason [19:19] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Eh... [19:19] <@LtNOWIS> Well, if something was TC'd like a year ago, that doesn't mean too much. [19:19] <+Jedimca0> I agree [19:19] <+Jedi_Goodwood> ...seems a bit harsh to me. [19:19] <+Azzt|Morfference> well, not have same reasons [19:19] <@Darth_Culator> You can't ban an admin. :-P [19:19] <+Jedimca0> Per LtNOWIS [19:19] <@Riffsyphon1024> I personally dont like to see things deleted, unless its vandalism [19:19] <+Azzt|Morfference> /exact/ same reasons [19:19] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Culator, sure you can. [19:19] <@SillyDan> Something should be changed -- either rejigger the nomination to make it easier to find consensus, give new evidence, or something [19:19] <@Grey-man> yes [19:19] <@Riffsyphon1024> agreed [19:19] <@Grey-man> that's reasonable to me [19:19] <@Gonk|Busy> per SillyDan [19:20] <+Jedimca0> I agree [19:20] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yeah. [19:20] * +Azzt|Morfference nods [19:20] <@Graestan> per SillyDan [19:20] <+Cactuar83> OK 8-) [19:20] <+Jedi_Goodwood> At least eliminate the Merge option because it's not always clear what to merge it to. [19:20] <+Madclaw> yes [19:20] <+LO|Whocares> Well, if that's clear Whatever. [19:20] <@Riffsyphon1024> what about the Good Bad and Ugly reasons [19:20] * +Azzt|Morfference suddenly notices a distinct lack of Jaymach [19:20] <+Jaymach> I'm here [19:20] <@SillyDan> Or clarify the merge option [19:20] <+Azzt|Morfference> Ah! [19:20] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'd still go "case-by-case" route. [19:20] <+Azzt|Morfference> :O [19:20] <@Riffsyphon1024> yea each is different [19:21] <@LtNOWIS> Merge option doesn't work a lot of the time. [19:21] <+LO|Whocares> No more BJ smilies [19:21] <@Graestan> Azzt> Settle down. Morferrence is serious bidness. [19:21] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Heh. [19:21] <+Azzt|Morfference> Grae: Business. [19:21] <@Grey-man> ... [19:21] <@Riffsyphon1024> like who is for giving the 501st outposts their own articles instead of merging them to the main article [19:21] <+Jedi_Goodwood> ..... [19:21] <@Darth_Culator> Oy. [19:21] <+Jedi_Goodwood> FAIL> [19:22] * @Graestan is against being a giant advert for other fan sites/organizations [19:22] <@Riffsyphon1024> seriously I merged what we decided on and it doesnt look right, but I dont want to remove them from the wiki [19:22] <@Graestan> They can raise their own money and place their own ads. [19:22] <+Azzt|Morfference> Yeah. [19:22] <+Toprawa> per Graestan [19:22] <@LtNOWIS> Nobody wants to advertise anything. [19:22] <@Riffsyphon1024> if you think its about advertisements, but they can be controlled to sound encyclopedic [19:22] <+Cactuar83> It's practically spam [19:22] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'd go for making small notations of the various outposts and let them put their sites on the List of Fan Sites. [19:22] <@Grey-man> so what have we decided per the current topic, Trash Compactor policies [19:22] <@Graestan> Off-topic, anyhow. [19:22] <@Grey-man> stay on target [19:23] <@Riffsyphon1024> meh [19:23] <@Riffsyphon1024> it just impacted on the surface [19:23] <@Graestan> In favor of SillyDan's proposal? [19:23] <+Jaymach> I'm against fan topics entirely [19:23] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:23] <@Darth_Culator> Seems we're generally in favor of requiring some variety in a re-TC. [19:23] <+LO|Whocares> 9_9 [19:23] <+Jaymach> Fan stuff is what the Star Wars FANon wiki is for [19:23] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Culator. [19:23] <@LtNOWIS> ... [19:23] <@Darth_Culator> Aside from that, dunno. [19:23] <@SillyDan> OK, are we all agreed that we should allow TCs to be restarted subject to some conditions? [19:23] <+Azzt|Morfference> Point to Jay. [19:23] <@Riffsyphon1024> no thats for fanon [19:23] <+Azzt|Morfference> Yes. [19:23] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yes. [19:23] <+Toprawa> yes [19:23] <+Jaymach> (Riffsyphon1024): the 501st are a fanon organization [19:23] <@Riffsyphon1024> pending particular conditions, ok [19:23] <+Jaymach> fan-films are fanon films [19:23] <@Grey-man> Yes, Dan [19:24] <+Jaymach> fan mods are fanon modifications of canon games [19:24] <@LtNOWIS> 501st isn't in the busines of storytelling. [19:24] <@Darth_Culator> Yes, yes. Moving on. [19:24] <@Riffsyphon1024> SWF is a different kind of fanon, youre confusing it with fandom [19:24] <+Jaymach> doesn't matter [19:24] <@Grey-man> next topic, jeez [19:24] <+Jaymach> no, I'm not [19:24] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +m [19:24] <+Jedimca0> Next topic? [19:24] <+Jaymach> I'm simply in favour of using the FANon wiki for FAN items [19:24] <@Riffsyphon1024> alright, moving on.. [19:24] <@Graestan> Bureaucrat veto rights. [19:24] <+Azzt|Morfference> BC veto [19:24] <+LO|Whocares> Gasp [19:24] <+Azzt|Morfference> What are they currently? [19:24] <@Riffsyphon1024> thats what I thought we had missed earlier [19:24] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Bureaucrat veto rights. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:24] <@Graestan> Imp is in favor of abolishment of them; we can look after ourselves now. [19:25] <@SillyDan> Against. [19:25] <@Grey-man> I say Keep [19:25] <@Graestan> I agree with him. [19:25] <+Jedi_Goodwood> BC veto...what does it apply to other than RFAs and RFRAs? [19:25] <@SillyDan> Keep them. [19:25] <@Riffsyphon1024> Chad has stated that he is against this [19:25] <+LO|Whocares> Lode it. [19:25] <@Darth_Culator> I think they're still useful for RFRAs. RFAs, meh. [19:25] <@Grey-man> yes [19:25] <+LO|Whocares> *Lose [19:25] <+Jedimca0> I say keep [19:25] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'd say get rid of them, but keep them for Riff and Chad. [19:25] <@Riffsyphon1024> I wish to retain my right of a BC vote or else whats the point of being a BC [19:26] <+LO|Whocares> Of course Chad is against it. [19:26] <+Toprawa> how many bureaucrats are there, out of curiosity? [19:26] <@Riffsyphon1024> Chad believes that the founders should retain their votes [19:26] <@Grey-man> 4 [19:26] <@SillyDan> No, we made the other BCs BCs for a reason. [19:26] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Understandable since it's his wiki. [19:26] <@Riffsyphon1024> 4 [19:26] <+Madclaw> I say keep [19:26] <@Graestan> Well, you'd have to ask Imp, but I would say it has something to do with feeling more responsible for the site as a whole. [19:26] <@Riffsyphon1024> its noones wiki [19:26] <+Azzt|Morfference> hmm.... [19:26] <@Grey-man> Per SillyDan...keep their veto rights [19:26] <@Riffsyphon1024> in fact its Wikia's wiki [19:26] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Heh. [19:26] <@Grey-man> exactly [19:26] <+Jaymach> Wikia don't want to claim it as their own [19:26] <@Darth_Culator> I think they make good sense. And I say this as someone who had his first RFA vetoed. :-P [19:27] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Anyway, I think the fact that Imp, a BC, proposed this should carry some weight. [19:27] <@Riffsyphon1024> but they own it [19:27] <+Jaymach> they've stated several times they're merely hosts [19:27] <+Jaymach> they don't own anything [19:27] <@Grey-man> anyways [19:27] <@Graestan> per Goodwood, else I wouldn't defend it [19:27] <@Riffsyphon1024> but neither do we [19:27] <@SillyDan> If we only had the founders as BCs, I might support removing the veto rights, but we have a larger and more active BC pool now. [19:27] <+Jaymach> it's like saying a hotel is the owner of a company meeting because they host it [19:27] <+Jaymach> they're simply facilitators [19:27] <@Grey-man> Ok...vote time, yes to keeping? or no? [19:27] <@Grey-man> I say KEEP [19:27] <@Darth_Culator> Keep. [19:27] * Enochf (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-035dcbb8624b1468) has joined #wookieepedia [19:27] <+Azzt|Morfference> keep [19:27] <+Jedi_Goodwood> We only have four BCs, right? [19:27] <@Riffsyphon1024> Id be bias [19:27] <+Azzt|Morfference> yea [19:27] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Ditch. [19:27] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Enochf [19:27] <@SillyDan> Keep veto rights. [19:27] <@The4dotelipsis> Ditch. [19:27] <@Graestan> Abolish. [19:27] <+Cactuar83> Keep itttt [19:27] <+Jedimca0> Keep. [19:28] * +Azzt|Morfference count..... 6/3 [19:28] <@Darth_Culator> Anyone else? [19:28] <@The4dotelipsis> Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous stuff. [19:28] <+Toprawa> undecided [19:28] <@Riffsyphon1024> anymore? [19:28] <+LO|Whocares> Abolish veto rights of other two [19:28] <+Toprawa> how many B's are there that aren't creators? [19:28] <+Jedimca0> if a BC does not want to use it, he can always choose not to use it. [19:28] <@Riffsyphon1024> which two? [19:28] <@SillyDan> Toprawa: 2 [19:28] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Imp and jSarek. [19:28] <@Riffsyphon1024> Chad and I are founders [19:28] <@Grey-man> You can't tell two BC's that they don't count [19:28] * RR|Neuroscience (n=Relentle@wikia/Relentless) has joined #wookieepedia [19:28] <@Grey-man> all BC's are the same [19:28] <@Riffsyphon1024> err co-founders [19:28] <@Grey-man> that's why they are BC's [19:28] <+Toprawa> if it grows larger than 3, i.e., more than the original 2, i'd say abolish [19:28] <+Enochf> All praise to the Founders ^_^ (Weyoun mode) [19:29] <@Graestan> Heh; WhiteBoy didn't even vote on my RfA! Why abolish Imp's and jSarek's, then? [19:29] <+Toprawa> keep for now [19:29] <+LO|Whocares> Bah' [19:29] <@Darth_Culator> Doesn't look too consensus-y either way, but leaning toward status quo. [19:29] <@Riffsyphon1024> WhiteBoy has a life [19:29] <@SillyDan> Boot this to the CT? [19:29] <@Graestan> I'd say keep for all, but never abolish for the two. [19:29] <+Jedimca0> I agree, all BC's are the same, but if one does not want to use his veto, he can choose not to use it. [19:29] <@Graestan> I have a life, too. [19:29] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yeah, boot to CT. [19:29] <+Madclaw> per graestan [19:29] <+Azzt|Morfference> delegate! [19:29] <@Riffsyphon1024> well we're all suposed to [19:29] * +Cactuar83 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-766aeaf5fd840491) has left #wookieepedia [19:29] <+Jaymach> (Riffsyphon1024): that's a flat out lie [19:29] <@Darth_Culator> CT if someone's really motivated, but doesn't seem worth the effort. [19:29] <+Jaymach> Chad does NOT have a life [19:29] * Grey-man sets mode: +v RR|Neuroscience [19:29] <+LO|Whocares> As I said earlier... [19:29] <+Jaymach> he has World of Warcraft [19:29] <@Riffsyphon1024> supposed* [19:29] <@Grey-man> if we can't decide this here, then take it to a CT [19:29] <+Jaymach> there's a HUGE difference [19:30] <@Riffsyphon1024> Jay: yea you do have a point [19:30] <+LO|Whocares> Just like every other mofference. :P [19:30] <+Azzt|Morfference> Jay: lol [19:30] <@Darth_Culator> Moving on? [19:30] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:30] <@Grey-man> yes [19:30] <@Riffsyphon1024> CT [19:30] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Moving on. [19:30] <+Jaymach> (Azzt|Morfference): it's not a joke :P [19:30] <+Toprawa> CT [19:30] <@SillyDan> Next please. [19:30] <@Grey-man> Next Topic [19:30] <@Graestan> Admin names. [19:30] <+Azzt|Morfference> Admin names in RC: green, bold, or keep both? We originally talked about just one or the other, but never did anything about it. -- Ozzel [19:30] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Admin highlight in RCs. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:30] <@Graestan> Green/ bold? [19:30] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Keep both. [19:30] <+Jedimca0> Keep them both [19:30] <@Riffsyphon1024> heh [19:30] <@LtNOWIS> I like it. [19:30] <+RR|Neuroscience> We have green and bold @ Halopedia, if that means anything :P [19:30] <@Graestan> I am for both. [19:30] <@Grey-man> Keep as is [19:30] <+Toprawa> are they supposed to show up presently? bc they don't for me [19:30] <+LO|Whocares> Doesn't Chad have those miniature humans too? [19:30] <@Darth_Culator> Green *or* bold. Both is too much. [19:30] <+Azzt|Morfference> keep [19:30] <@The4dotelipsis> Keep as is. [19:30] <@SillyDan> I don't care at all, and will nap until the next topic. [19:30] <@GreenTentacle> Keep it. [19:30] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Green is my favourite colour anyway. [19:30] <@Riffsyphon1024> I made it so yes both [19:30] <@GreenTentacle> Dammit, stop pinging me! :P [19:30] <+Azzt|Morfference> Keep [19:31] <+Jedimca0> It helps new users to find admins. [19:31] <+Enochf> Green+bold is good. Attention getting, but not unreadable. [19:31] <+LO|Whocares> Per SillyDan [19:31] <+Madclaw> both [19:31] <@The4dotelipsis> It's got to lash out at you and say "Now see here boy, this is an admin" [19:31] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:31] <@Graestan> per Jedimca0 [19:31] <@Grey-man> I think we have consensus [19:31] <+Azzt|Morfference> GreenTentacle: Make 'green' not ping you, eh? [19:31] <@LtNOWIS> Boldness increases readability. [19:31] <@Riffsyphon1024> remember when it was red, I changed that [19:31] <@GreenTentacle> Bah! [19:31] <@The4dotelipsis> Red is stupid. [19:31] <+Azzt|Morfference> Keep [19:31] <+Enochf> You should've chosen VeridianTentacle instead [19:31] <+Azzt|Morfference> red is not good [19:31] <@The4dotelipsis> Makes it look like a redlink. [19:31] <@Riffsyphon1024> I see that now [19:31] <@Graestan> It also helps admins to see if anyone is watching RC; when no one is around, I am more prone to refreshing the page. [19:31] <+Azzt|Morfference> Enochf: viridian [19:31] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:31] <+Enochf> D'oh [19:31] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Greentea [19:31] <@Grey-man> ... [19:32] <@Riffsyphon1024> but the idea was to show what admins were present then [19:32] <@Grey-man> and it works [19:32] <+Jaymach> they don't show up for me anyway, so I don't care either way :P [19:32] <+Enochf> Yup. So we know who to pester. [19:32] <@Riffsyphon1024> and idea from SWF I believe [19:32] <@Graestan> Keep. Next? [19:32] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes [19:32] <@The4dotelipsis> SWF? Well, now I hate the idea. :P [19:32] <@Grey-man> Yes, I think we have a strong consensus to keep it as it [19:32] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:32] <@Riffsyphon1024> hah [19:32] <@Grey-man> *is [19:32] <@Grey-man> next topic [19:32] <+Azzt|Morfference> Should severe inactivity be grounds for removal of adminship? --Imperialles [19:32] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yes. [19:32] <+Toprawa> yes [19:32] <+LO|Whocares> Meh [19:32] <+Toprawa> if it's SEVERE [19:32] <+Azzt|Morfference> yes [19:32] <+Enochf> Hmm. Yeah. Define "severe." [19:33] <@Graestan> I support this. [19:33] <+Muuurgh> Yes. [19:33] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Remove severely inactive admins? Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:33] <+Azzt|Morfference> severe [19:33] <+Jedimca0> yes [19:33] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [19:33] <@LtNOWIS> Long, long inactivity should. [19:33] <@Grey-man> yes, unless they have advised the community of why they are going to be away [19:33] <+Azzt|Morfference> like, left site [19:33] <+Enochf> Eight, nine months? [19:33] <@Riffsyphon1024> you guys are going to have to accept that theyve had a major cleanup over there [19:33] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Severe = six months or more. [19:33] <+Madclaw> per greyman [19:33] <+LO|Whocares> MarcK has been gone for over a year. [19:33] <@The4dotelipsis> What? [19:33] <@The4dotelipsis> No way. [19:33] <+Enochf> I can go with six months. [19:33] <+Jaymach> if it was grounds for admin removal, then Imp's admin status would have been removed twice by now [19:33] <+Jedimca0> Per Jedi_Goodwood [19:33] <@Graestan> Severe, in my opinion, would be anything over three months. [19:33] <@The4dotelipsis> Severe is 12 months. [19:33] <@Darth_Culator> De-op the quitters. [19:33] <@LtNOWIS> How long is Imp away for generally? [19:33] <@Riffsyphon1024> lag [19:33] <@Graestan> This isn't about Imp at the moment. [19:33] <+Azzt|Morfference> We can give Imp a bread [19:33] <+Enochf> OK, is the consensus for 6 or 12? Wanna do a binary vote? [19:33] <+Azzt|Morfference> *break [19:33] <@LtNOWIS> Yeah, we know Imp's cool. [19:33] <+Toprawa> six months, unless they provide a good reason, a year, even if they have one [19:33] <+LO|Whocares> 0 [19:33] <@Graestan> I'd cut it shorter. [19:34] <@Graestan> Four months. [19:34] <+Azzt|Morfference> 4 [19:34] <+Jaymach> (Graestan): no, but I'm giving an example [19:34] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Grae. [19:34] <@Darth_Culator> 9. [19:34] <+Azzt|Morfference> yeah [19:34] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Four months. [19:34] <@Grey-man> I could go with 12 months...if I were deployed with the army, there is a strong chance that I could be away from a computer for 8-12 months, [19:34] <+Jedimca0> Per Toprawa [19:34] <+supergeeky1> A year for regular admins, a year and six months for bureaucrats. [19:34] <+LO|Whocares> 4 and 9 aren't binary [19:34] <@Graestan> Grey-man> But you'd give a reason. [19:34] <@The4dotelipsis> 12. [19:34] <@Riffsyphon1024> gotta restart [19:34] <+Azzt|Morfference> We can make special exceptions for extenuationg circumstances [19:34] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Grey, you'd be different because you would have given a reason why. [19:34] <+Jaymach> if we had had this rule in effect several months ago then Imp would have lost his admin status [19:34] <+Enochf> I'd vote 12 to keep it safe for those who may have, say, employment issues keeping them off the net for a while. [19:34] <@Grey-man> True [19:34] <+Jaymach> and thus we would be down one BC [19:34] <+Toprawa> per Az [19:34] <+Azzt|Morfference> *extenuating [19:34] * @Riffsyphon1024 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-bb621b9afc3ab063) Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)"�) [19:34] <@LtNOWIS> The excuses are key. [19:34] <+Enochf> Or who have just graduated and haven't gotten the apartment yet. [19:34] <+Jaymach> so if we make it a rule now, then we may lose other "valuable" admins [19:34] <@Grey-man> and that's why CGI fails [19:34] <+Toprawa> someone could die too, and we might never know? [19:34] <@Graestan> Again, this isn't about Imp. This is here and now; I wasn't even around for Imp's absence. [19:35] <@Grey-man> yes [19:35] * Riffsyphon1024 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-cf734b6072c04a70) has joined #wookieepedia [19:35] <@LtNOWIS> It's a semi-useful example. [19:35] * GreenTentacle sets mode: +o Riffsyphon1024 [19:35] <@Riffsyphon1024> ok green me again please [19:35] <@The4dotelipsis> I was away from May till about late September. [19:35] <+Jedimca0> welcome back Riffsyphon1024 [19:35] <+Jaymach> (Graestan): which is why I said I was using it AS AN EXAMPLE [19:35] <@Graestan> There are two examples which I have in mind right now. [19:35] <+Azzt|Morfference> Riff: Use non-CGIIRC 9_9 [19:35] <@Riffsyphon1024> thanks [19:35] <@The4dotelipsis> And you're saying that taking a break like that would be grounds for removal as Admin? [19:35] <@Riffsyphon1024> anyway [19:35] <+LO|Whocares> Give an excuse. [19:35] <@Riffsyphon1024> I missed this question, I need it again [19:35] <@The4dotelipsis> May I offer a hearty "fuck this" then, if that's the case? Because that's just shit. [19:36] <+Toprawa> if you say you're taking a break, you should have a certain amount of time which you are allowed to return [19:36] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Dot, give a reason for being gone. [19:36] <@Grey-man> if it is clear, like MarcK, then GTFO...otherwise, pop onto IRC and let us know you are alive [19:36] <+Azzt|Morfference> Riff: remove admin powah after certain length of time [19:36] <@SillyDan> Anyone who loses admin rights after several months away should be able to get it back easily... [19:36] <@The4dotelipsis> OK, I was sick of the Wiki. I needed a break from it. [19:36] <@Riffsyphon1024> ok it depends largely on the situation of each admin [19:36] <@The4dotelipsis> This is volunteer work, damnit. [19:36] <@SillyDan> ...if they ever intend to return. [19:36] <@Grey-man> per 4dot [19:36] <@Riffsyphon1024> and thus why we always need more admins [19:36] <@Graestan> 4Dot> We'd allow for people giving us reasons or explaining. [19:36] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Grae. [19:36] <@Graestan> That was the whole idea. [19:37] <+Jaymach> and what if they're unable to give reasons? [19:37] <@Riffsyphon1024> Aidje, MarcK, StarNeptune, Sentry, all MIA or retired [19:37] <@The4dotelipsis> So, we have to explain ourselves, do we? Even if we really can't? [19:37] <@Graestan> Reasons = fine. Disappearance = bad. [19:37] <@SillyDan> hey, if I get hospitalized for months, no one in my family knows my Wikia password. [19:37] <+Jedimca0> If an admins makes it known that he's going to be absent for a while, but that he will be back in, for expample, 6 months. it hould be ok. [19:37] <@Darth_Culator> Aidje actually has been around sporadically, but MarcK might be dead. [19:37] <@Grey-man> Sentry isn't an admin anymore [19:37] <+Jaymach> Imp, for example, went deep sea fishing at the last minute and had no internet access at all [19:37] <@Darth_Culator> And we know Star has issues. [19:37] <@Graestan> Aidje hasn't edited since March or so. [19:37] <@Riffsyphon1024> can we confirm deaths? [19:37] <+Jaymach> if he goes away again, will we remove his power? [19:37] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [19:37] <+Enochf> D-d-d-deaths? [19:37] <@Graestan> And Star was here a month ago. [19:37] <@Grey-man> MarcK is MIA for over a year [19:37] <+Toprawa> only after a lengthy investigation [19:37] <@Riffsyphon1024> but not really involved admin wise anymore [19:37] * +Enochf checks his pulse [19:38] <+Toprawa> hah [19:38] <+Jaymach> just because a SINGLE admin should have his power removed, doesn't mean we should have rules detailing removal of power for any absent admin [19:38] <+Azzt|Morfference> right [19:38] <+Jaymach> if people want to remove MarcK's power, put him up for RfRA [19:38] <@Riffsyphon1024> I think it should be based admin to admin [19:38] <+Azzt|Morfference> case-by-case basis, mebbeh? [19:38] <@Darth_Culator> We should at least have some general guidelines. [19:38] <@The4dotelipsis> This sickens me, but I agree with Jaymach here. [19:38] <@Graestan> I'd say two: MarcK and Aidje. [19:38] <+Toprawa> per Az [19:38] <@Graestan> per Culator [19:38] <@Riffsyphon1024> and if they magically come back? [19:38] <+Jedimca0> Per Jaymach [19:38] <+Azzt|Morfference> Other question: why remove powah at all? [19:38] <+Jaymach> (Azzt|Morfference): it's ALREADY case-by-case [19:38] <+Enochf> AIDJE! Gesundheit. [19:38] <+Jaymach> if ANYONE wants to, then they can put an admin up to be removed of powers [19:38] <@SillyDan> Having a barely-active but trusted user remain an admin hurts no one. [19:38] <@The4dotelipsis> Because "Three months and you're out" is just plain despicable. [19:38] <@Riffsyphon1024> I can contact Aidje through another social networking site [19:38] <+Azzt|Morfference> Jaymach: then no change [19:38] <+Jaymach> a standard user can submit the request [19:38] <@Darth_Culator> It's always going to be a per-case thing, but some kind of general idea would be nice to have. [19:39] <@Graestan> In all honesty, I find the notion of coming back cold turkey six months from now and deleting anything or blocking anyone. [19:39] <@Graestan> unconscionable* [19:39] <+Toprawa> Three months is too short, agreed [19:39] * Cactuar83 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-98c950121ded198c) has joined #wookieepedia [19:39] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Cactuar83 [19:39] * Grey-man sets mode: +v Cactuar83 [19:39] <@Riffsyphon1024> three months much too short [19:39] <+Azzt|Morfference> yea [19:39] <+Jedimca0> I agree [19:39] <@Riffsyphon1024> that was less than my semester of classes [19:39] <+LO|Whocares> Yes [19:39] <@The4dotelipsis> Four. Five. Six. It's all no good. [19:39] <@Graestan> Six months? [19:39] <+Azzt|Morfference> 9+ [19:39] <@Riffsyphon1024> one year its questionable [19:39] <+Toprawa> Six months at a bare minimum [19:39] <+Jaymach> so what about when WhiteBoy is inactive for 6 months? [19:39] <@Grey-man> eh, I say keep it as is...we can treat MarcK and any future cases on the same grounds [19:39] <+Jedimca0> but after six months we should start asking questions. [19:39] <+Enochf> 12 as a hard-and-fast rule, six a guideline for a review. [19:39] <+Jaymach> shall we be removing his power? [19:39] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [19:39] <@LtNOWIS> Sounds good. [19:40] <+Jaymach> because I know Chad has been inactive for 6 months before [19:40] <+Jedimca0> per Enochf. [19:40] <@Riffsyphon1024> how would you go by doing that? [19:40] <+Jaymach> and I can see it happening again [19:40] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per the Prophet. [19:40] * @Darth_Culator is not hating Jaymach's hypotheticals. [19:40] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Enoch [19:40] <+Enochf> Peace be upon me [19:40] <+Jaymach> (Darth_Culator): I don't mind them, but I'm pointing them out :P [19:40] <@Riffsyphon1024> has anyone seen Aziz? [19:40] <@Grey-man> nah, Jaymach makes good sense [19:40] <+Jedi_Goodwood> What about the rest of us? [19:40] <+Azzt|Morfference> per Enochf [19:40] <+Jaymach> I like playing devil's advocate [19:40] <@Riffsyphon1024> Breathes? [19:40] <@Graestan> Well, if he's inactive for six months, then he obviously has no vested interest in this wiki he's begun. It's along the lines of abandoning a wiki. [19:40] <@Grey-man> not since the summer [19:40] <+LO|Whocares> Chad is safe. [19:40] <+Jedi_Goodwood> What did Jaymach say? [19:40] <+Enochf> Devil's got enough solicitors as it is [19:40] <+Azzt|Morfference> Riffsyphon1024: not recently [19:40] <@Graestan> Breathes was here the other day. [19:40] <@Riffsyphon1024> Sparq came back though [19:41] <+Azzt|Morfference> Graestan: o.O [19:41] <+Jaymach> if this rule goes into effect, I can see Breathes, Star, Aidje, MarcK, WhiteBoy, and Imp all losing their powers at some point or another [19:41] <@Grey-man> ok....so, I believe the consensus is to keep it as is: CASE BY CASE [19:41] <@Grey-man> right? [19:41] <@Riffsyphon1024> Azzt calm down, youre not getting any of that [19:41] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Breathes is hot. [19:41] * Graestan sets mode: -v Jedi_Goodwood [19:41] <@The4dotelipsis> Thank you, professor. [19:41] <@Graestan> Another point: I don't see why it's considered death to be removed as an admin. [19:41] <@Riffsyphon1024> Star is renting out her user page [19:41] <@LtNOWIS> Right now, we have no policy of axing absentees, do we? [19:41] <@Darth_Culator> I still think we need a guideline at the very least. [19:41] <@Graestan> Many admins don't use their powers much at all. [19:41] <@LtNOWIS> We should at least have a long guideline. [19:41] * Havac (n=Havac@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [19:42] <@Graestan> They can always be re-RFAed [19:42] * Grey-man sets mode: +o Havac [19:42] <+Jaymach> (LtNOWIS): we have our standard "if you want to remove them, just put them up for removal" policy [19:42] * Graestan sets mode: +v Jedi_Goodwood [19:42] <@Riffsyphon1024> I think after one year, we should be able to email them until they respond [19:42] <+Enochf> Exactly. After a year, it makes sense you'd need to petition for your status back, and that's even assuming someone with that kind of an absence would even want it back. [19:42] <@The4dotelipsis> What? Climb up the greasy pole twice? [19:42] <@The4dotelipsis> Ridiculous. [19:42] <@Graestan> Why? [19:42] <@Riffsyphon1024> and the pole only got greasier [19:42] <@LtNOWIS> ... [19:42] <@The4dotelipsis> You have to earn community trust twice? [19:42] <@Graestan> Yeah. [19:42] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Bingo. [19:42] <+Enochf> There's an Oola joke in there somewhere... [19:42] <@Havac> Yes. [19:42] <+Jaymach> you get more votes against you the second time you go up for an admin position :P [19:42] <@Riffsyphon1024> I dont think one needs reproving [19:42] <@Graestan> Not many are here for a year or more. [19:42] <@SillyDan> Community can change in a year.... [19:43] <+Azzt|Morfference> Point to SD [19:43] <+Jaymach> more people (like Graestan) don't trust that you'll stick around :P [19:43] <@Havac> The community can change, you can change. . . [19:43] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Hell, communities can change in a month. [19:43] <@Darth_Culator> I'd like a guideline. Something along the lines of "if X then *possibly* Y" rather than "if X then definitely Y." Right now it's not even listed as a potential cause for RFRA. [19:43] <+Enochf> Come to think of it, some of our admins *are* Poles, aren't they? [19:43] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Even a day. [19:43] <@Riffsyphon1024> possible [19:43] <+Jedimca0> Per Darth_Culator [19:43] <@The4dotelipsis> Right. So, six months of absence = I don't care about the Wiki any more. [19:43] <+Enochf> Possibly even greasy Poles [19:43] <+Azzt|Morfference> make it a possible cause for RfRA [19:43] <@Graestan> Enochf> Enough. [19:43] <@The4dotelipsis> Is that the gist of this? Because if so, I've heard all I need to hear. [19:43] <+LO|Whocares> Hm. [19:43] <@Riffsyphon1024> after one year, if no edits at all, find them, talk to them, ask them if they want to come back [19:44] <@Graestan> Why so long, though? [19:44] <+Jaymach> (Riffsyphon1024): and if you can't? [19:44] <@Darth_Culator> Assume they're dead. [19:44] <@Havac> Fourdot, no. It just means "That's not really what we're looking for in a person tasked to *Administer*". [19:44] <@Riffsyphon1024> because its been that long for those people [19:44] <@Grey-man> 6 months = try to communicate, 8 months = communicate that they will be removed at 12 months, 12 months = Remove sysops [19:44] <+Jedimca0> I'd say after six months we should start asking questions, like sending an e-mail to aks if they still want to be an admin. [19:44] <@Graestan> per Greyman [19:44] <@Gonk|Busy> per Greyman [19:44] <+Jaymach> if, as I said earlier, they're unable to be contacted (like when Imperialles went deep sea fishing)? [19:44] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Six months, ask questions. A year, go ahead with the RFRA. [19:44] <@Graestan> Ilike that a lot. [19:44] <+LO|Whocares> It would appear MarcK was at least still alive around two months after he stopped editting here. [19:44] <@Graestan> Greyman's proposal? [19:44] <@Grey-man> jeez, this is just a big ol pissing match now...stay on the topic [19:44] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Greyman. [19:44] <@Graestan> Yea. [19:44] <@LtNOWIS> If they say they quit, de-admin them. [19:44] <+Jedimca0> Per Grey-man and myself. [19:44] <+LO|Whocares> So who knows. [19:44] <@Riffsyphon1024> but will the communication be Wiki only? [19:44] <@LtNOWIS> No [19:44] <+Azzt|Morfference> no [19:44] <@Riffsyphon1024> we have to email, find them on social sites [19:45] <@Graestan> Why shouldn't it be? [19:45] <@SillyDan> No admin should have only one point of contact [19:45] <@Grey-man> exactly [19:45] <+Jaymach> (Riffsyphon1024): that doesn't address my point [19:45] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Precisely. [19:45] <+Jaymach> what if they're unable to be contacted in any way? [19:45] <@Riffsyphon1024> I have about 20 on Facebook alone [19:45] <+Azzt|Morfference> eww FarceBook [19:45] <@Graestan> Then we'll have to assure that all admins have their contact info in /someone's/ hands. [19:45] <@Riffsyphon1024> shut it [19:45] <+Jedimca0> I think in case of absence, we should send an e-mail to aks if they still want to be an admin. [19:45] <+Jaymach> as I said...Imperialles went deep sea fishing...there's absolutely no way to contact someone via the internet when they're deep sea fishing [19:45] <@Grey-man> communicate by any means we can, what's so friggin hard about that? [19:45] <+Jedi_Goodwood> There's also IMs like AIM, MSN and Yahoo! [19:45] <+Jaymach> what would you do in that case? [19:45] <@Riffsyphon1024> right [19:45] <@Graestan> I am for Grey-man's proposal, hands-down. [19:46] <@Graestan> ANyone else? [19:46] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Me. [19:46] <@Riffsyphon1024> even Id try to keep a line open if I was working on Mars [19:46] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Greyman. [19:46] <+Jaymach> completely against it [19:46] <@Havac> Jaymach: Then have him say ahead of time, "I'm taking time off, I'll be back in six months, I'm still commited." [19:46] <@Darth_Culator> This is dragging a bit. [19:46] <+Jedimca0> Per Grey-man [19:46] <@Havac> Voila. Issues fixed. [19:46] <@Riffsyphon1024> we need to comm first [19:46] <@Grey-man> It's either that, or keep the current policy...lets just get some damn progress here [19:46] <@Darth_Culator> It seems like an inevitable CT. [19:46] <+Jaymach> (Havac): he did so the first time, but was unable to do so the second time as he was called away suddenly [19:46] <+Enochf> Agree w/Grey-man [19:46] <@The4dotelipsis> Completely and utterly against it. [19:46] <@Grey-man> good for you [19:46] <@Havac> Overnight suddenly? [19:46] <@Grey-man> CT [19:46] <@Graestan> CT [19:46] <+Jaymach> (Havac): same-day suddenly [19:46] <+Jedi_Goodwood> CT [19:46] <+Azzt|Morfference> .....CT [19:47] <@Riffsyphon1024> ok Im confused again, who supports having some sort of thing? [19:47] <@SillyDan> CT Greyman's proposal. [19:47] <+Jedimca0> CT [19:47] <+Enochf> Fine [19:47] <@The4dotelipsis> Well, I'm glad we're having a Mofference... [19:47] <@Havac> I support. [19:47] <@Grey-man> My proposal was try to get back on topic, it's that's not fine, then CT it and move on to the next topic [19:47] <+Toprawa> agreed, per grey [19:47] <+Jedimca0> Vote for Grey-mans proposal? [19:47] <+Toprawa> laaaaag [19:47] <@Riffsyphon1024> I support having some sort of timetable, and communications until they answer yes or no, or the 1 year mark comes [19:47] <+Jaymach> I support if it's retroactive and we get rid of Imp and WhiteBoy too :P [19:48] <@Graestan> A CT is forthcoming. Next Topic, please. [19:48] <@Riffsyphon1024> alright CT [19:48] <@SillyDan> Next! [19:48] <@Graestan> Goodwood? [19:48] <+Azzt|Morfference> wo proposed changes to the FAN process: Inq-nominated FANs should get five other votes just like non-Inq nominations, and Inqs who raise objections that are addressed and struck should be obliged to vote for the nom.--Goodwood [19:48] <@Graestan> Ah, Wait! [19:48] <@Riffsyphon1024> English? [19:48] <@Graestan> I have a quickie on that one. [19:48] <+Jaymach> obliged to vote? hell no [19:48] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Heh. [19:49] <@Graestan> Should "former admins" be on the admin page? [19:49] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Changes to FAN process. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:49] * LO|Whocares is now known as LO|BRB [19:49] <+Jaymach> they can raise objections, those objections could be met, but they could find other things wrong with the article [19:49] <@Graestan> Additionally, should "former administrators" remain on WP:A? Seriously, would we list them and say "(removed for such-and-such)" if the above idea was adopted? Graestan(This party's over) 04:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC) [19:49] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Grae - they should not. [19:49] <@Riffsyphon1024> At least indicate who we had [19:49] <@SillyDan> Graestan: no [19:49] <+Azzt|Morfference> Remove if inactive [19:49] <@Riffsyphon1024> gray them out [19:49] <+Azzt|Morfference> somehow show inactivity [19:49] <@Havac> I'd say former admins are worth listing. [19:49] <@Riffsyphon1024> list them, but gray them out [19:49] <@Graestan> Just a thought. [19:49] <+Jaymach> boo :P I don't want to be listed [19:49] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yes but under a separate section. [19:49] <+Jedimca0> per Havac [19:50] <+Jedi_Goodwood> ==Former Admins=== [19:50] <@Graestan> Back to the next topic. [19:50] <@Riffsyphon1024> yeah [19:50] <+Jaymach> BOO :P [19:50] <+Azzt|Morfference> FAN changes [19:50] <@Riffsyphon1024> if you have a problem Jay, maybe you need to be active again [19:50] <+Enochf> Don't care either way [19:50] <@Havac> Don't require more votes. [19:50] <+Jaymach> (Riffsyphon1024): I have a problem being listed on the page at all :P I don't want to be [19:50] <+Jaymach> being active won't solve that [19:50] <@Havac> FAN doesn't need to be an even painfully longer process. [19:50] <+Jedi_Goodwood> The first bit was to encourage a bit more fairness for Inq-nominated FANs and the second was meant to prevent pocket vetos. [19:50] <@Graestan> I don't think Inqs are obliged to vote for shit. [19:50] <@Riffsyphon1024> youre sure helping your cause by being here then [19:51] <@Graestan> If I object, it's to call the nominator out. Fix it, or lose. [19:51] <@Darth_Culator> That's like saying someone can't vote for himself in a general election. It's contrary to the nature of the process. [19:51] <@Graestan> Then I vote... if I want it. [19:51] <+Jaymach> I don't mind being part of the site, but I have no desire to be listed on the admin page [19:51] <@Grey-man> *Topic: Changes to FAN process. * [19:51] <+Jedi_Goodwood> But if they fix it, then shouldn't they merit a vote for? [19:51] <@Grey-man> not necessarily [19:51] <@Riffsyphon1024> alright Jay, have it your way ;) [19:51] <@GreenTentacle> No and no. [19:51] <@Grey-man> per GT [19:51] <+Jaymach> (Jedi_Goodwood): what if the person fixes the objections, but the Inq's still see other problems that they haven't got around to listing yet? [19:51] * +Toprawa (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-db093c3f5859bb99) Quit ("CGI:IRC"�) [19:51] <@Havac> I'd say not inherently, as they may not feel there's anything worth objection to but not feel comfortable voting for it. [19:51] <@Graestan> I'dresign as an Inq if I was forced to vote for anything. [19:51] <@The4dotelipsis> Right, well, the whole idea of the reformed rules of yesteryear were to make an article either objectionable, or featurable. [19:52] <@Riffsyphon1024> I abstain from this vote, I havent been involved with Inq at all [19:52] <@Havac> It ought to be generally practiced, but not required. [19:52] <+Jaymach> Inq's don't exist to have no life and just review your FAN after every change [19:52] <@The4dotelipsis> Buuut... [19:52] * Toprawa (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-dea2c77be33516ec) has joined #wookieepedia [19:52] * Grey-man sets mode: +v Toprawa [19:52] <@The4dotelipsis> I don't think there should be a hard-and-fast rule, just strong encouragement. [19:52] <+Jedimca0> if they don't want to support it, they should have a valid reason to object, if there is now, they should vote support. [19:52] <+Azzt|Morfference> how many Inqs are there ATM? [19:52] <+Enochf> Hmph. How about a process to move non-qualifying FAs to Good Articles, for the articles that *almost* but don't quite cut it. [19:52] <+Jedimca0> *none [19:52] <@The4dotelipsis> But the whole idea of the Inq is to speed up the process. [19:52] <@Grey-man> 15 or so Inqs, currently [19:52] <@Riffsyphon1024> hmm, they would be GA worthy [19:52] <+Jaymach> (Jedimca0): they may have a reason not to vote that they've not had time to put into words at that point in time [19:52] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Encouragement is fine. [19:52] <@Grey-man> IIRC [19:52] <@The4dotelipsis> If we get a whole lot of people abstaining... [19:53] <@The4dotelipsis> We've failed. Miserably. [19:53] <@Riffsyphon1024> what separates a FA from a GA? [19:53] <+Jedi_Goodwood> It just seems to be common courtesy to me. [19:53] <@Graestan> Off-Topic [19:53] <@The4dotelipsis> Riff: Quality. And word limit. [19:53] <+Enochf> Sowwy [19:53] <@Riffsyphon1024> and the middle ground between the two? [19:53] <@GreenTentacle> Riffsyphon1024: GA doesn't have to be complete. [19:53] <+Jedimca0> Jaymach: true, but then they'll eventually oppose again. [19:53] <+Jaymach> I'm against saying Inq's HAVE to vote for anything...that's like telling admins they HAVE to vote in every CT [19:53] * Cactuar83 is now known as supergeky1 [19:53] <@Riffsyphon1024> eh? [19:53] <@Grey-man> exactly [19:53] <@SillyDan> or RFA [19:53] <@Graestan> I am against both points. [19:53] <+Jaymach> admins are there to help the site run, but they don't have to be involved in every process [19:54] <@Riffsyphon1024> per Jay [19:54] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Meh. It doesn't matter a whole lot. [19:54] <@The4dotelipsis> It's a slightly different situation. [19:54] <+Jaymach> just like Inq's are there to help FAN run (supposedly) but they don't have to be involved in every single process [19:54] <@The4dotelipsis> There are hard and fast, defined rules for FANs. [19:54] * supergeky1 is now known as Cactuar83 [19:54] <+Jedimca0> I agree, but if they have already voted oppose, they should vote support if all objections are "fixed" [19:54] <+Enochf> I'm not even sure what the difference is between Inqs and admins, if there is one. [19:54] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Jedimca0 [19:54] <@Graestan> People are voted into the Inq because they know about the rules, etc. Why would their vote if they are the nominator not count? [19:54] <@Riffsyphon1024> Inqs just have another job on the site rounding up FANs [19:54] <@The4dotelipsis> Yes, that point is silly. [19:55] <+Enochf> Huh. So, like, admins are the Senate, and the Inq is like an appropriations committee? [19:55] <+Azzt|Morfference> Grae: personal bias [19:55] <@The4dotelipsis> How is it personal bias? [19:55] <@Grey-man> no it's not, Azzt [19:55] <@Grey-man> before I became an Inq, I didn't care if Inqs voted for their own FAN's [19:55] <@Graestan> It's not a popularity issue. [19:55] <+Jaymach> (Azzt|Morfference): it would only be personal bias if the Inq's were some sort of cabal who just masturbated over articles together [19:55] <@Grey-man> exactly [19:55] <@Riffsyphon1024> uhem [19:56] <+Enochf> Which is just silly. Ahem. [19:56] <+Jedi_Goodwood> To be honest they're not that important to me, but I thought it was something worth debating anyway. [19:56] <@Darth_Culator> And how is personal bias related to any known voting process? Look at the US Senate. Or better yet, don't. Because if you're that concerned with personal bias, it would drive you to tears. [19:56] <@Riffsyphon1024> next topic? [19:56] <+Azzt|Morfference> I mean, an Inq might not see something wrong with an article if they wrote it. [19:56] <+Enochf> Isn't that right, Jon the Farmer? Silly. [19:56] <+Jedi_Goodwood> It's really about courtesy. [19:56] <@GreenTentacle> Jaymach: Only Guri. :P [19:56] <+Jaymach> someone de-op GT for that :P [19:56] <@Grey-man> next topic if we're done here [19:56] <@Riffsyphon1024> as long as they dont believe that they own the article theyre nomming [19:56] * Muuurgh_ (n=THord@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [19:56] * Grey-man sets mode: +v Muuurgh_ [19:56] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yeah we're done. [19:56] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Muuurgh_ [19:56] <@Riffsyphon1024> next [19:56] <+Azzt|Morfference> Proposed addition to WP:NOT along the lines of "Wookieepedia is not your personal website." Claims of users acting arbitrarily and with possessiveness regarding the site and its conduct have been flying around, and I'd like to see some sort of encouragement that users utilize the proper channels before making such decisions. Graestan [19:57] <@Riffsyphon1024> noone owns Wookieepedia [19:57] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Wookieepedia is not your personal website. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [19:57] * +Muuurgh (n=THord@REDACTED) Quit (Nick collision from services.�) [19:57] * Muuurgh_ is now known as Muuurgh [19:57] <@LtNOWIS> Can you elaborate on the problem, Graestan? [19:57] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Seems like this should have been used to get rid of Jack Nebs sooner. [19:57] <@Graestan> I'm not too worried about this one anymore. But a like to Ownership would be nice. [19:57] <+Enochf> Hm, I suppose, but that one'll be hard to prove if an accusation comes up. [19:57] <@Grey-man> Graestan > Yes, elaborate with examples please [19:57] <+Jaymach> (Graestan): so we're stopping Imp acting like it's his site now, are we? :P [19:57] <@LtNOWIS> We already have WP:NOT and all that. [19:57] <@Darth_Culator> Nebulaxian lastwordism should be actively discouraged somehow. [19:57] <+Enochf> We already have the three-revert rule to fight this, don't we? [19:57] <@Riffsyphon1024> "my article, dont edit it, dont delete it, dont alter it" etc? [19:57] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Addendum to WP:NOT [19:58] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Culator. [19:58] <@Graestan> I just want a link to Ownership to be added. [19:58] <+Jedimca0> Per Darth_Culator and Riffsyphon1024 [19:58] <@Graestan> Grey-man, I think you know what I am talking about. [19:58] <@Riffsyphon1024> wouldnt hurt [19:59] <@Graestan> Jaymach> Yes, accusationsof that nature are exactly what I am talking about. [19:59] <@Grey-man> Graestan > Ah, yes...that. Yes, Ownership needs to be flaunted a bit more [19:59] <@Riffsyphon1024> QDB Nebulaxian lastwordism? [19:59] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [19:59] <@Darth_Culator> Off-topic! [19:59] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes sir [19:59] <+Azzt|Morfference> off-topix [20:00] * Olsonman (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-ad4f0d1549186002) has joined #wookieepedia [20:00] <@Riffsyphon1024> oh no [20:00] <+Azzt|Morfference> soooo.... Ownership and less lastwordism? [20:00] * GreenTentacle sets mode: +v Olsonman [20:00] <@Darth_Culator> We could certainly do with some adding to WP:NOT. [20:00] <+Jedi_Goodwood> BLARG! [20:00] <+Jaymach> don't voice Olsonman, you idiot :P [20:00] <@Graestan> I will provide the link presently. [20:00] <@Darth_Culator> Why in Bob's name would you do that? [20:00] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -v Olsonman [20:00] <@Graestan> This is a Wikia issue. [20:00] <@Grey-man> All users, admins, and BCs should be familiar with this: http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Ownership [20:00] <@GreenTentacle> Fine. [20:01] <+Jaymach> (Graestan): Olsonman is a troll who's stated his desire to disrupt the Mofference [20:01] <@Darth_Culator> Ah, that's a good page. [20:01] <@Grey-man> and all users, admins, and BCs who are not familiar with it, should read it and understand it [20:01] <+Jaymach> bah [20:01] <+Jaymach> that was meant for GT [20:01] <+Enochf> Property is theft! ^_^ [20:01] <@Riffsyphon1024>    * The site itself, and the Wikia trademarks, are owned by Wikia, Inc.. [20:01] <@Riffsyphon1024> The copyright of a particular edit is owned by the person who made that edit. [20:01] <@Riffsyphon1024> The wikis are owned by the communities. No one user owns any Wikia. [20:01] <@Riffsyphon1024> The Three Commandments of Wikia [20:01] <+Enochf> The best way to own an article around here to make it perfect before anybody comes around and fixes it. [20:02] <@SillyDan> A link to the Wikia ownership page on WP:NOT is a good idea. [20:02] <@Riffsyphon1024> link it, duh [20:02] <+Azzt|Morfference> State the general ideas on WP:NOT [20:02] <@Grey-man> and any user/admin who threatens to RFRA another admin because they have a different opinion need to STFU and read Ownership [20:02] <@Darth_Culator> I favor this. Along with some general summarization. [20:02] <@Graestan> Am I given permission to author a section encompassing that link and a small explanation? [20:02] <@Graestan> All in favor? [20:02] <@Darth_Culator> Yep. [20:02] * +Azzt|Morfference aye [20:02] <@Riffsyphon1024> state in bold the big three and link [20:02] <+Jedimca0> Per Darth_Culator [20:02] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Go ahead. [20:02] <@Grey-man> Yes [20:03] * @Havac (n=Havac@REDACTED) Quit ("I bid you all Dark Farewells!"�) [20:03] <@SillyDan> "Put it on WP:NOT's talk page first" is the answer I'm tempted to make [20:03] <@Graestan> Not many read the talk pages of Wookieepedia namespace. [20:03] <@Riffsyphon1024> noone checks the talk page however [20:03] * Olsonman (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-ad4f0d1549186002) Quit (Client Quit�) [20:03] <@Graestan> Otherwise I'd agree. [20:03] <@SillyDan> but I suspect no one will object to whatever draft wording you put in. [20:03] <+Enochf> Why? This is the Mofference! [20:03] <@SillyDan> I read it! [20:03] <@LtNOWIS> I read everything except articles. [20:03] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [20:03] <+Azzt|Morfference> talk pages tend to get underused on WP:wahtev type stuff [20:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> you are unique in that right Simon [20:04] <+Azzt|Morfference> lol Simon [20:04] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Okay, so we're generally agreed to this change, eh? [20:04] <+Azzt|Morfference> yea [20:04] <@SillyDan> Yes. [20:04] <@Grey-man> Yes [20:04] <+Enochf> Ya [20:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes, add those three, and link to the page [20:04] <@Grey-man> Next topic [20:04] <@GreenTentacle> Yeah. [20:04] <+Azzt|Morfference> We need something to help fill the right-hand column of the Main Page in Monobook with the death of the I-Drive.--Goodwood [20:04] <+Jedi_Goodwood> k [20:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> next [20:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> Picture of the WOTM [20:04] <@Graestan> LOL [20:04] <+Azzt|Morfference> lol no [20:04] <@SillyDan> god no [20:04] <+Jedi_Goodwood> That would be interesting. [20:04] <+Enochf> Aw. No. Main page is cramped enough as it is. [20:04] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Stuff on main page. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [20:04] <@Riffsyphon1024> :) [20:04] <@Graestan> Only the Evil Joe pic. [20:04] <+Enochf> Plus QOTD always gets the shaft when other stuff comes in. [20:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> noone ever likes showing their face [20:05] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I was thinking of something like Important Links like WP:MOS and such. [20:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes seriously, important links [20:05] <+Jaymach> we could always go with the Final Fantasy wiki's idea and put a "Coolest thing ever" and "Lamest thing ever" :P [20:05] <+Jaymach> and don't worry...that's not a serious suggestion [20:05] <+Enochf> *whew* [20:05] <+Jedi_Goodwood> WP:MOS, WP:NOT, etc. [20:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes and yes [20:05] <@Graestan> MOS isn't a bad idea... but NOT is a bit negative IMO [20:05] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Possibly. [20:05] * Muppets101 (n=phillipf@wikia/Muppets101) has joined #Wookieepedia [20:05] <@Riffsyphon1024> once they figure out what MOS and NOT mean [20:05] <+Enochf> NO it's NOT [20:06] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I can work up a list if you guys would like. [20:06] <@Graestan> we want them to be encouraged to edit, and learn how [20:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> good [20:06] <@Darth_Culator> WP:NOT should be plastered everywhere. [20:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> but teach them how to behave [20:06] <@Grey-man> WP:Sourcing too [20:06] <@Graestan> Goodwood>Sure. [20:06] * GreenTentacle sets mode: +v Muppets101 [20:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes sourcing [20:06] <@Graestan> Basically, editing tools. [20:06] <@Grey-man> some users need to be beat over the head with WP:Sourcing [20:06] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I can probably have it this time tomorrow when it can be added to the main page. [20:06] <@Riffsyphon1024> anything to make Wookieepedia better [20:07] <@The4dotelipsis> WP:Sourcing actually has some dumbness. [20:07] <+Toprawa> WP:Policy and consensus updates [20:07] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes [20:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yes. [20:07] <@Graestan> Fourdot, this isn't about your personal opinions on the policies. Just ideas for space to fill. [20:07] <@Riffsyphon1024> these should all be obvious items [20:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> WP:Civility too. [20:07] <@Darth_Culator> Feh. [20:07] <+Jaymach> civ-what now? :) [20:07] <@Graestan> I'm against warnings and other such items. [20:07] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Okay. [20:07] <@Graestan> Just helpful things. [20:08] <@Riffsyphon1024> Celebration V, what about it? [20:08] <+Enochf> Wait, policy warnings on the frong page? [20:08] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'll be able to have a better list proposal once I dig through the Wookieepedia namespace some more. [20:08] <@Darth_Culator> Just put big red letters that say "POST FANFIC AND DIE" [20:08] <+Enochf> Like a giant "no spitting" sign on our wiki? No way! [20:08] <+Toprawa> yes [20:08] <@Riffsyphon1024> oh nevermind [20:08] <@The4dotelipsis> I don't think we need to clutter the main page, just because the space is there. [20:08] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Shouldn't be something that merits a CT since everyone seems to think it's a good idea. [20:08] <@Riffsyphon1024> how about Wookieepedia:Mofferences? [20:08] <@The4dotelipsis> Wookieepedia is not paper, or so I've been told, but it's also not a toilet. [20:08] <+Jaymach> Mofferences go in the SIteNotice [20:08] <+Jaymach> no need to have them on the Main Page [20:08] <@Riffsyphon1024> long term? [20:09] <@Graestan> It's not clutter, just a tiny space for three or four links. [20:09] * SillyDan is now known as SD|away [20:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Grae. [20:09] <@Riffsyphon1024> actually its a big space [20:09] <+Toprawa> i never noticed the blank spot until it was brought up. why put anything? [20:09] <+Muppets101> How about a Policy section? [20:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> And Riff. [20:09] <@Darth_Culator> So, fill the space, CT what to fill it with? [20:09] <@Graestan> per Culator [20:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Muppets, that's what we're discussing. [20:09] <@Riffsyphon1024> CT for ideas [20:09] <@Graestan> Goodwood's CT :P [20:09] <+Muppets101> :) [20:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Okay. [20:09] <@The4dotelipsis> Urgh. Leave it. [20:09] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I'll make a CT. [20:09] <+Azzt|Morfference> We need to fill with something that is relatively attractive to anons/new users/etc [20:09] <+Enochf> Hmpf. [20:10] <@Riffsyphon1024> first to reach 5000 edits gets a free copy of the Holiday Special [20:10] <+Toprawa> ==How to be a worthwhile contributor== [20:10] <+Jedi_Goodwood> lol [20:10] <+Enochf> Pic of the Day would bring in the rubes, but what a can of worms that'd be. [20:10] <+Azzt|Morfference> because many of /us/ just start at RC *cough*Culator*cough* [20:10] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Agreed Enoch. [20:10] <@Riffsyphon1024> whats wrong with a Pic of the Day? [20:10] <@Darth_Culator> Moving on... [20:10] <+Azzt|Morfference> next topic? [20:10] <@Grey-man> it breaks fair use [20:10] <@Grey-man> next topic [20:10] <+Azzt|Morfference> De-GA-ing? -- Ozzel [20:10] <@Grey-man> ugh [20:10] <+Enochf> Hee hee [20:10] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: De-GA-ing. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [20:10] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Ugh. [20:10] <@Darth_Culator> We needed that long ago. [20:10] <@Riffsyphon1024> I hate to be cliche but wikipedia and other wikia do it all the time [20:10] * +Azzt|Morfference say yes [20:11] <@Graestan> Grey-man's addendum to that post is good. [20:11] <@SD|away> Good idea in principle, but who's going to do it? The Inqs again? [20:11] <+Enochf> Once I was GA, but then I was cured ^_^ [20:11] <+Jaymach> (Riffsyphon1024): yes, but they shouldn't [20:11] <+Azzt|Morfference> If it no longer fits the requirements, then slap it [20:11] <@Darth_Culator> There's an improvement template, but no threat of consequences. [20:11] <+Jedimca0> De-GA-ing, not needed. [20:11] <@Graestan> We do have, that myself and SOT created a while ago. SOT was mainly in charge of it, and did a fair bit of work brining older GA's up to par. Just some food for thought :) Greyman(Paratus) 15:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC) [20:11] <@Riffsyphon1024> right, ok De-GA [20:11] <@The4dotelipsis> No GA, since there was no rule change. [20:11] <@The4dotelipsis> No De-GA, that is. [20:11] <+Azzt|Morfference> well, even if it doesn't actually get bahleeted, it'd make someone (s) fix it [20:11] <+Jedimca0> We have [20:11] <@The4dotelipsis> The current standard is already that low, that I don't see how you can honestly fall below it. [20:11] <@Grey-man> I don't think it is needed to be on the same level as removing FA's at all [20:11] <+Jedi_Goodwood> No De-GAing. [20:11] <@Riffsyphon1024> I still dont get De-GAing, the whole point is to keep articles at Good Status or better [20:11] <+Jedimca0> and that works fine. [20:11] <+Azzt|Morfference> Point to 4dot 9_9 [20:12] <@Grey-man> I should have advertised that template when I made it [20:12] <@Grey-man> anyways [20:12] <+Enochf> I've seen GAs pillaged by anons... or that Admiral Jolyon guy. [20:12] <+Jedimca0> Per Riffsyphon1024 [20:12] <@Grey-man> I say no to de-GAing [20:12] <@Riffsyphon1024> I vote no [20:12] <+Madclaw> no De GAing [20:12] <@GreenTentacle> No. The template is fine. [20:12] <+Azzt|Morfference> Abstain. [20:12] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Per Grae. [20:12] <@The4dotelipsis> If we had made that suggested reform, I would have said yes. [20:12] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Greentea, rather. [20:12] <@The4dotelipsis> But... [20:12] <+Enochf> Eh... if we have a template already, then vote no de-GAing. [20:12] <+Toprawa> per enochf [20:13] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Well, it's like Graestan once said to me, having seventeen GAs is like having seventeen $500 cars. They're not worth that much so they're not worth de-GAing. [20:13] <@SD|away> Per Toprawa's perring Enochf. [20:13] <@Graestan> Everyone's against it, then? [20:13] <+Azzt|Morfference> sooooo.....general consensus is at no de-GA? [20:13] <+Toprawa> off topic> can articles less than 1000 words still reach GA status? [20:13] <@Grey-man> so, consensus to not de-GA GAs? [20:13] <@GreenTentacle> Toprawa: Yes. [20:13] <+Enochf> Looks like it. No CT required. [20:13] <@Grey-man> Next topic [20:13] <@Riffsyphon1024> and theyll only depreciate unless maintained [20:13] <@The4dotelipsis> Exactly, Wood. And seventeen? I had no idea. But seriously, you can't maintain a non-existent standard. [20:13] <+Azzt|Morfference> next [20:13] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Looks like it Grey. [20:13] <+Azzt|Morfference> Propose a rewrite of Wookieepedia:Wookify to reflect current practices and pointing toward more policies and guidelines in place, as the "articles copied from Wikipedia" information has become obsolete. This is a discussion point before a CT proposal should be drafted. Graestan [20:13] <@Riffsyphon1024> is this the last one? [20:13] <+Azzt|Morfference> yeah [20:14] <@LtNOWIS> Do it. [20:14] <@Graestan> I have one more thing after this, but this for now: [20:14] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Updating Wookieepedia:Wookify. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [20:14] <@Graestan> That page is obsolete. [20:14] <@Riffsyphon1024> needs a complete rewrite since its obsolete [20:14] <+Enochf> Change it to what exactly? [20:14] <@Graestan> We are not brand new. [20:14] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Agreed with Grae and Riff. [20:14] <+Muppets101> Agreed [20:14] <@Graestan> I will draft something, but I want ideas, before I put it to CT [20:14] <+Azzt|Morfference> indeed [20:14] * +Azzt|Morfference agrees [20:14] <@Riffsyphon1024> we are no longer copying articles from Wikipedia [20:14] <+Azzt|Morfference> Put it to CT iffen ya want [20:14] <@Riffsyphon1024> or at least shouldnt be [20:15] <+Jedi_Goodwood> We could make it a refinement of WP:MOS that contains guides for the latest precedent in how to FA various types of articles. [20:15] <+Jedimca0> another CT? [20:15] <@Darth_Culator> They should be copying from us. :-P [20:15] <@Riffsyphon1024> someone did a few nights ago though [20:15] <+Enochf> No, but every now and then we catch a CUSWE copy, and I've seen text-blocs taken word-for-word from WOTC supplements. [20:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> lol [20:15] <+Azzt|Morfference> Culator: No kidding. [20:15] <@Riffsyphon1024> CUSWE copies are zero tolerance [20:15] <@Riffsyphon1024> in the name of Bob Vitas, we should crush them for that [20:15] <@Graestan> Enochf> I'll warn against plagiarism. [20:15] <+Enochf> Ya [20:15] <+Jedimca0> It needs a rewrite. [20:15] <@Riffsyphon1024> we're friends with the guy [20:16] <@Graestan> All in favor of a rewrite? [20:16] <@Riffsyphon1024> question: will we still have wookification? [20:16] <@Grey-man> yes to both [20:16] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. And yes. [20:16] <+Jedi_Goodwood> In favour. [20:16] <+Enochf> What's the gist of the rewrite gonna be? Still confused. [20:16] <@Graestan> (Jedimca0> This was an ideas-before-CT point to begin with) [20:16] <+Madclaw> in favour [20:16] <@Riffsyphon1024> it wont cover copies from Wikipedia and changing their text and tense [20:16] <@Graestan> Enochf> More of a guide to refining things to be more MOSish. [20:16] <+Jedimca0> ah [20:17] <+Jedimca0> I feel we should at least decide if this should get a rewrite. [20:17] <@Graestan> It will be a link farm to other things, with explanations. WP:MOS, Sourcing, WP:TRIVIA, etc. [20:17] <@Riffsyphon1024> but it will then be reincorporated with MOS [20:17] <+Enochf> So a bunch of sub-wookify's, maybe one for grammar, one for bad info-boxing, etc.? [20:17] <@LtNOWIS> Wookification is the same as Wikification on Wikipedia. [20:17] <@Riffsyphon1024> true, I guess we bastardized the name [20:17] <+LO|BRB> Yet more like the opposite. [20:17] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I like how MOS has a guideline for how to write Species articles, and I'd like to see that duplicated to reflect precedent for other types of articles. This could help to encourage non-character FANs. [20:17] <+Azzt|Morfference> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Articles_that_need_to_be_wookified <---atm, there's 18 'real' articles [20:17] <@Graestan> But the name has come to mean something else than when it started. [20:17] <@LtNOWIS> yes [20:18] <+Enochf> Oh, I see [20:18] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes Wookification now simply means making an article in the format of Wookieepedia [20:18] <@GreenTentacle> That Species thing still needs moving, by the way. [20:18] <@GreenTentacle> Shouldn't be in MOS. [20:18] <+Enochf> That's how I've used it. OK. [20:18] <@Graestan> And as I am very interested in the new meaning, I'd like to see it rewritten. By me, with everyone's help for ideas. [20:18] <@Graestan> BtS is a biggie for me. [20:18] <+Azzt|Morfference> yeah [20:18] <@Riffsyphon1024> MOS needs more specific article guidelines like the species [20:18] * +Muppets101 raises hand [20:18] <+Azzt|Morfference> Yes, Philip? [20:18] <@GreenTentacle> Bah! [20:18] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Yes, bullet-points in BtSs are just wrong. [20:18] <@GreenTentacle> No it doesn't. [20:18] <+Muppets101> lol, wrong channel [20:18] <+Azzt|Morfference> lol [20:18] <+Enochf> Har. Next goal: get a Wookieepedia word into the Oxford English Dictionary. ^_^ [20:19] <@GreenTentacle> They belong in the layout guide! [20:19] <@Riffsyphon1024> lol [20:19] <+Azzt|Morfference> Enochf: YESSS!!!! XD [20:19] <@Graestan> Basically, I will outline policies, guidelines, and precedents, and explain what articles need in order to fall in line. [20:19] <@Riffsyphon1024> it will be Mofference [20:19] <+Azzt|Morfference> yea [20:19] <@Darth_Culator> Focus! [20:19] <+Azzt|Morfference> needs 'moff' tho 9_9 [20:19] <+LO|BRB> We can do it. [20:19] * +Azzt|Morfference focus [20:19] <@Riffsyphon1024> yes stay on target [20:19] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Okay, are we in favor of this or not? [20:19] <@Graestan> Precedents = Stuff established on FAN/GAN pages but not spoken of in policies, etc. [20:19] <+Azzt|Morfference> rewrite? yes [20:19] <+Enochf> Mofference is technically an EU word before we bastardized it ^_^ [20:19] * +LO|BRB is sooooo glad Ataru didn't make it. [20:20] <+Azzt|Morfference> lol [20:20] <@Riffsyphon1024> rewrite yea [20:20] * LO|BRB is now known as LO|Mofference [20:20] <@Grey-man> Rewrite [20:20] <+Enochf> OK then rewrite yes+ [20:20] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Rewrite yes. [20:20] <@Riffsyphon1024> we just specialize in bastardization then don't we? [20:20] <+Muppets101> Rewrite yes. [20:20] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Basically. [20:20] <@SD|away> rewrite it! go nuts! [20:20] <+Azzt|Morfference> Indeed. [20:20] <@Riffsyphon1024> Go Wookiee on it man [20:20] <+Enochf> Rewrite it. Do what must be done. Show no mercy. [20:20] <@Graestan> Thank you all. [20:20] <+Jedi_Goodwood> RRRRRRRRRR!!!! [20:21] <+Azzt|Morfference> Okay, time for me to fly go [20:21] <@Graestan> Last point of mine: [20:21] <@Riffsyphon1024> so is this everything? [20:21] <+Jedimca0> Per Enochf [20:21] <@Grey-man> hopefully, Riff [20:21] <@Graestan> Fiolli wants to draw everyone's attention to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Non-_and_semi-sentient_species_sections [20:21] <+Azzt|Morfference> Bye all. [20:21] <@Graestan> Just a mention. [20:21] <@Grey-man> later Azzt [20:21] <@Riffsyphon1024> ok checking out link [20:21] <+Muppets101> bye azzt [20:21] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I saw that last night and think it's a god idea. [20:21] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference in session. Topic: Final stuff. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [20:21] <+Madclaw> later  dude [20:21] <+Jedi_Goodwood> Good* [20:21] <@Graestan> It's popular so far, but he wants people to comment and vote, suggest revisions [20:21] <@Riffsyphon1024> oh yea support all the way [20:22] <@Graestan> That's it from me. [20:22] <@The4dotelipsis> I'd like that for the Wars and Battles ones. [20:22] * +Azzt|Morfference (n=chatzill@REDACTED) Quit ("!haB "�) [20:22] <@Darth_Culator> Open floor? [20:22] <@The4dotelipsis> Instead, all people have is the knack to point out the bleeding obvious. [20:22] <+Muppets101> in quartz, the icons by the article name don't show, only a link. [20:22] <+Enochf> I'll vote approve on that, unless there's a sudden traffic jam on the link [20:22] <@Riffsyphon1024> alright, I'll bring this mofference to a close then [20:22] <+Jedi_Goodwood> I can't think of anything else. [20:23] <@Riffsyphon1024> I Bid You All Dark Farewells [20:23] <+Jedi_Goodwood> This was rather successful...heh. [20:23] * Darth_Culator changes topic to 'Mofference winding down. Open floor. Â· Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki. Â· http://starwars.wikia.com�' [20:23] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -m