Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Tam Elgrin


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Tam Elgrin

 * Nominated by: Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing
 * Nomination comments: I got this idea from Acky. Thanks Acky!

(+6)
Support
 * 1) You sure this is your first? 00:23, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|20px]] 05:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Great article, man. Very clean. DC 18:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 4)  Aqua  Unasi  19:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) I have have something of an interest in this article. ;-) Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 00:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) As noted, with some extra work, this could be taken to FA. - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 07:35, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose
 * 1) From the destroyed planet of Jorrel Fraajic
 * 2) * If you use only reference in a paragraph, you are able to keep it at the end of said paragraph. There's no need to source sentences if they all come from the same source in that paragraph.
 * 3) * There's also a way to streamline the references so you don't have to type out the entire thing. For example, take Waru. Most of this information falls under The Crystal Star; however, after the initial ref, I'm able to not have to type out . Instead I can simply write . In your case, all of the after the first can simply be . It's not really an objection so much as a suggestion, but I'd really like to see it implemented anyway.
 * 4) * Look out for the referencing within a sentence. Make sure that any refs come after punctuation, including commas, semicolons, etc.
 * 5) * Is it possible to get relevant quotes for the sections lacking them? From reading the article, I see that the commendation from Wedge (if it's spoken, that is) would fit under "A freed man", and something relating to the interaction between Elgrin and women, or something about the tripping, would be good under the P&T.
 * 6) **The commendation isn't spoken, it's only mentioned by Cilghal, an nothing is spoken relating to the P&T.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 23:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) ***Gotcha. Worth a shot at any rate.
 * 8) *Content-wise, the article is very good. Take care of the above, and you've got my vote. I look forward to seeing more out of you in the future. ;) Jorrel Fraajic 23:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) **It's all done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 23:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * From the scratchpad of Atarumaster88
 * You need more early life. He did exist before becoming a spy, and the article should show that.
 * Done. Not much info though.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 22:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to use this nom as a bit of "GA training" for you, so please consider all these objections as "for future reference". To say "Very little is known" is both OOU, and incorrect tense. Just state what is known, not what is unknown. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Order the article, particularly the bit about him being captured, chronologically rather than how it's laid out in the book.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 22:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. You still mention Skywalker watching the hologram before Elgrin ever gets to Borleias. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:15, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Contextify key players, such as Quee, Solo, and Tser, in the main body of the article.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 22:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep checking. Who is Luke Skywalker? What is he? Who is Tser?
 * Done, although I thought I had already identified Tser.:P  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:15, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "unbearable", "large"&mdash;both of these are POV.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 22:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "He seemed to be very honorable" POV/Original Research.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 22:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Saying someone is "very honorable" is still POV. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * OK done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Otherwise, not bad, if a little choppy in the prose. Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 02:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

From the squadron briefing of Cavalier One:
 * 1) * Do we really need two ref tags in the infobox to say he was in the New Jedi Order era? One should be enough, linked to the book he first appeared in.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:26, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) * The part about Elgrin's capture and turning into a Vong agent should be described from his point of view, and chronologically, not through the revelations of the New Republic personnel at Borleias. It should go Fall of Coruscant/capture > implantation of device into brain and turning > release to Borleias > showing holocam recording to Luke and co > discovery of false story by Dannii.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:26, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) * Elaboration on the plot to capture Jaina is needed.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) * What information was on the screens that prompted Elgrin to consider killing Dannii?
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 20:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) * No quote for "A freed man" section?
 * Eh, I found one.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 21:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) * I definitely think that the intro could be extended - it should be an overview of the entire article. Look at my current GANs: Lon Bennor, Tren, Kause and Tetrum. All have intros longer than Elgrin's, and they are about characters who are mentioned in a single paragraph. Elgrin is featured over two books.
 * Done.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 21:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) *This article is roughly 1,000 words; with some more fleshing out, an appropriate image or two, such as one of the Fall of Coruscant, or the Battle of Borleias, and a Behind the scenes section, this could go to FA. - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 10:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * Not so much an objection, but is it possible to expand the intro a few sentences? '''Jorrel Fraajic 23:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't think of anything else to write in the intro. Sorry. :(  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 23:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Having looked at this article twice, I still felt the prose needed some general improvement. I've gone through the bio line-by-line and attempted to do that clean up and expansion for you, also adding some pertinent tidbits. Please take a look at my edits and see what I did to the article&mdash;I feel it's overall more readable and informative than before. Nice work overall with this, and you'll certainly get better with practice. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 00:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)