Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Darth Bandon


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Darth Bandon

 * Nominated by: Jedi Kasra (talk) 22:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: This is my first nom for an FA, wish me luck!

(5+ Inqs/3 Users/11 Total/INQCON 5+)
Support
 * 1) Reviewed it on the GAN.  CC7567  (talk) 22:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 3)  IFYLOFD  ( You will pay the price for your lack of vision! ) 16:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) The nominator has worked diligently on bringing this up to Featured status requirements. —Tommy9281  Dark side Master SWGTCG.jpg ( No quarter given, all exits sealed ) 10:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) Good job! –Victor  [[Image:Redstarbird.svg|15px|link=Category:Articles by Victor Dorantes]] ( talk page ) 01:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 6) Great article! Good Job Inquisitorius! -  Skypopper (HoloNet Transmission) 18:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 7) Thefourdotelipsis 01:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 8) Almost&hellip;there --  —Harrar  ( Cut the comm chatter ) 22:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 9) --Eyrezer 04:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 10) Nice! -- LordDeathRay  (My Sith Holocron)  01:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * User:Capt.Scout Officer report 14:21, 2 Aug 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Okay. I'm done. :) &mdash;  Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) From the Moffship of Grand Moff Tranner:
 * 2) * "In the tradition of the Sith Order, Malak sought a single learner among his followers to become his official apprentice, someone that could learn the Sith secrets and use them to effectively destroy the Jedi and the Republic." - the way it's worded makes it seem like this was after Revan's capture. Please reword.
 * 3) **OK, I actually put that whole sentence in the second paragraph, since no source it actually clear on when Bandon won Malak's admiration, whether Malak was searching for an apprentice before or after he took the mantle of Dark Lord. You can take a look at the Jedi Civil War section to see exactly what I did.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:52, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) * "Bandon seemed to hold contempt for the bounty hunter Calo Nord; before Bandon fought Revan, he had a brief conversation with the redeemed Jedi, in which he called the recently deceased Nord a "pathetic bounty hunter."" - what does this have to do with the P&T, exactly? It would work better in the bio.
 * 5) **Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 6) * "A picture of Darth Bandon in the campaign guide depicts him dueling the Cathar Jedi Juhani,[13] which could indicate that Juhani accompanied Revan when Bandon confronted him." - original research, as a potential duel between Bandon and Juhani could have theoretically happened at any time. Please remove.
 * 7) **Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 8) *Nice job. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 22:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 9) A review for you.
 * 10) *Infobox
 * 11) ** Grammar and grammar continuity; shouldn't "Formerly" be lowercase (under Affiliation section, appearing twice) because it's not a proper noun and not the beginning of a sentence (in this case, Jedi Order and Galactic Republic bullet points are)? You prove this by not capitalizing "as" before "as Darth Bandon".
 * 12) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 13) *Raiding the Endar Spire
 * 14) ** "the Republic captain, Carth Onasi" - His title is "Republic captain" and therefore the comma is unnecessary (and wrong in terms of grammar)
 * 15) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 16) *'''The Search for Bastila and downfall"
 * 17) ** I think the header will read better if you remove "The" from it. Just a suggestion.
 * 18) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 19) ** "the Shadow Hand presumed that Revan and his team would be no match for him, expressing his fear that someone else had killed the redeemed Jedi, thereby depriving Bandon the "pleasure" of slaying him." Okay, I had to read this about four times before getting what you meant. I think you should reword the part beginning with "expressing" to clearly state that he thought someone had killed Revan already before he could get to him. It's a bit confusing as it is right now, to me at least.
 * 20) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 21) ** "calling him "pathetic", and stating that while Revan may have defeated Nord, that the former Dark Lord was no match for him" Does 'pathetic' really need apostrophes? It may be Bandon's POV but it is a fact that he said that. Also, the last part seems redundant since you already said Bandon stated Revan and his team were no match for him.
 * 22) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 23) ** "quick and painful" I always found coding other than bold (in the intro) to be bad style and a bit prosey. I think that should be removed, as it reads fine without the italics and the context remains the same, but I don't know where (if at all) this objection stands on policy.
 * 24) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 25) ** I think combining the last two sentences of the last paragraph in this section will help it read a lot better. Combine at "Revan and his companions, but, despite the Sith apprentice's skill, Bandon..." (You get it).
 * 26) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 27) ** Side note, this file (which appears in the section below) is canon, therefore making it canon that Juhani fought Bandon. The only possible time this could've happened was when Revan and Bandon fought and the latter was killed, so couldn't it be stated that Juhani was a part of Revan's companions? Just asking.As well, shouldn't a "100% game completion" tag be attached to this article in appropriate sections? Seen some 100% game completion related stuff (such as Revan's dialogue about Trask - that is an option, not required to complete the game, and from the Personality section: "Both his lightsaber and armor might have been acquired by Revan after the redeemed Jedi killed him." Which is also if the player completes the game 100%...)
 * 28) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 29) *BTS
 * 30) ** "A picture of Darth Bandon in the campaign guide depicts him dueling the Cathar Jedi Juhani." This sentence seems to fit better with the previous paragraph. Starting this second one with this fact is really random, as it does not connect with the following facts (continuity errors seems to be the theme).
 * 31) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 32) ** Remove italics from "after" in "...Darth Bandon after escaping the Leviathan..." per my above objection.
 * 33) ***Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 34) *That's it. Good read. –Victor  Redstarbird.svg ( talk page ) 08:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 35) Four Dot
 * 36) * The intro is quite fat, and could do with some paring down. Basically, cut down on parts where you're going into too much detail.
 * 37) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 38) ***No, I think it needs a lot more than that. Basically, cut it down to about 2 paragraphs. And not 2 massive paragraphs, either. Thefourdotelipsis 23:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 39) ****What you should really be cutting out here is the contextual details, such as Nord's involvement, Revan's mission, etc. Just pick out the details that are broadly important to Bandon's life, and keep those. Thefourdotelipsis 23:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 40) ****OK, I believe I've taken out extensive info on Nord, but I feel Revan's mission needs to stay to explain what Revan was doing that caused Malak to send Bandon to kill him.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 41) ****I believe I've shortened it adequately, please look at it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 42) * "When the Sith attacked the Jedi Knight Bastila Shan's ship, the Endar Spire, above the planet Taris, Bandon boarded the ship, with the Sith troopers and Dark Jedi under his command, to try and capture Shan." - Try and break this sentence up a bit.
 * 43) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 44) * "He killed the Republic ensign, Trask Ulgo, who sacrificed himself to save Revan&mdash;who had been rescued by Shan after Malak's betrayal, and reprogrammed to be loyal to the Republic by the Jedi Council. - A tad unwieldly.
 * 45) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 46) ***I'm not seeing any changes made there...?--Thefourdotelipsis 23:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 47) ****OK, if I mention Revan, I also need to mention exactly why he was on Endar Spire, and how he came to be there.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 48) *****You do, but it's just phrased oddly. Thefourdotelipsis 23:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 49) ******How's this? He killed the Republic ensign, Trask Ulgo, who sacrificed himself to save the former Sith Lord Revan, who was programmed to be loyal to the Republic by the Jedi Council.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 50) *****OK, I put this down: He killed the Republic ensign Trask Ulgo, who sacrificed himself to save the amnesiac former Sith Lord Revan, who had survived Malak's betrayal.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 51) * "Revan and the Republic captain Carth Onasi fled aboard the ship's last escape pod, and crash-landed on Taris, where Shan's pod had also landed. Sometime after Taris' destruction, which Malak ordered in an attempt to destroy Shan, the bounty hunter Calo Nord was sent by Malak to capture Shan, who had escaped the planet through the efforts of Onasi and Revan." - This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. You've got a fair portion of the intro where you're not talking about Bandon at all. This can all go.
 * 52) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 53) ***You can still do without the mention of Nord's hiring, which will contribute to the cutting down of the intro.--Thefourdotelipsis 23:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 54) ****But I can't just cut out the part where it mentions Nord was hired, since it described why Bandon was sent after Shan in the first place.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:08, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 55) * "Sometime after Malak ordered the destruction of Taris in an attempt to kill Shan, he was informed by the Sith Admiral Saul Karath and the bounty hunter Calo Nord, of Shan's escape from Taris. Malak hired Nord&mdash;who told the Dark Lord that his former Master, Revan, was not only alive, but had also assisted in Shan's escape&mdash;to find and capture Shan, stating that her companions meant nothing to him and that he wanted her alive. After Nord was killed by Revan, who had been retrained in the Jedi ways and commissioned by the Jedi Council on the planet Dantooine to find the Star Forge, Admiral Karath informed Malak of Nord's failure." - This is kinda irrelevant. Condense.
 * 56) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 57) ***I can't really see much of a change there. Thefourdotelipsis
 * 58) ****How about now?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 59) * "Bandon also mentioned the recently deceased bounty hunter Calo Nord, calling him pathetic, and stating that while Revan may have defeated Nord, that the former Dark Lord was no match for him." - Getting a bit too PBPish.
 * 60) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 61) * "Both his lightsaber and armor might have been acquired by Revan after the redeemed Jedi killed him." - You don't need to state this. Either he did or he didn't. It's worth a BTS note, maybe. Also, if you remove this, you can ditch the Gamemechanics template in the P/T.
 * 62) **I believe I've taken care of it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 63) *Otherwise, fine. Thefourdotelipsis 09:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 64) The Pasta Bowl takes on the Bts&hellip;
 * 65) *"In the section on the Sith in the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, Darth Bandon is referred to as a Sith Lord, when other sources, including his entries in the campaign guide&hellip;" This is confusing. Clarify. Also, I do not see how it is impossible that he could not be a Sith Lord. There seems to be a difference in the KotOR games between a generic title of "Sith Lord" and the supreme title of "Dark Lord of the Sith."
 * 66) **Taken care of, I believe. Other than the first page in the Sith section in the campaign guide, no other source explicitly states that he was a Sith Lord.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 67) ***The part that is somewhat confusing was not touched. I quoted it above. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 68) ****Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 69) ***** I get what you are saying, now, but it is not clear or well-written. Please keep the "other sources" phrase out when still talking about the KotORCG. Then, refer to other sources, if there actually are any&mdash;which you should also provide. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 01:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 70) ******Got it. Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 71) * "The guide Jedi vs. Sith: Essential Guide to the Force incorrectly states that Bandon died in the year 3,951 BBY, along with Darths Traya, Sion, and Nihilus. It also states that Bandon was a Dark Lord,[ref omitted] which is impossible since his Master, Darth Malak, was the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith." These two sentences function very closely together. Therefore, it almost feels like&mdash;while not intended&mdash;it is being stated that Malak and Bandon were still alive in 3,951 BBY. Add the info about his real death date to show the contrast and to sever the link between the sentences. Next, stating "which is impossible" seems very presumptuous. (1) The Rule of Two is still nearly 3,000 years away; (2) TSL proves that there can be more than one Sith Lord at one time; (3) the timeframe is not clarified so stating "was the reigning" has no context or qualifier.
 * 72) **Taken care of. It might, but, like above, no other source states that he was a Dark Lord, either. Also, Traya and the Triumvirate differed from Revan's teachings. In Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Revan's holocron tells Darth Bane that there could only be one Dark Lord.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 73) ***(1) The date of his death that is now mentioned is not found in KotOR. Please find a source that actually uses that date. The infobox and biography will need to be fixed as well. (2) Maybe it is me, but I am finding the last two sentences of this paragraph of be bordering on OR since there is nothing that states that Bandon was not a Dark Lord of the Sith under Malak. Again, we have no proof of Malak's teachings or what his beliefs about being a Sith Lord or the number thereof were. Because of the way things are worded and strung together, I would prefer these two sentences be outright removed. The point of its unlikely nature is already made above in the article. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 74) ****Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 75) * "If Revan encountered him on the forest world Kashyyyk, however, he is accompanied by two Dark Jedi that resemble the Sith Governor inside the Tarisian Sith Base." That seems like game mechanics and assuming a similarity is OR. Reword.
 * 76) **I really don't know how I could reword this since this actually takes place in-game, should the player choose to visit Kashyyyk to find the fourth Star Map.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 77) *** Assuming that the Dark Jedi resemble the Governor is OR because the game mechanics only have a few template faces to use for the characters. If there is an actual source that states that they were similar in appearance, then it is fine. Otherwise, remove. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 78) ****Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 79) *"Bandon's double-bladed lightsaber appears to have some unusual properties that set it apart from other lightsabers." Either it does or it does not, not "appears to" which is speculation and OR. If it does, it needs to be carefully quantified and I would like to see some reference made to statistical changes.
 * 80) **And where exactly would I get these references? Would a gametip site work?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 81) ***No, there is plenty of information into the game. This is one case were game mechanics can be beneficial if the lightsaber is unique. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 82) ****In other words, if there are RP statistics in the game about the lightsaber that can be found in the menus, then list them if the lightsaber is unique. Check the weapons screen or something like that to see if it does a unique amount or type of damage, etc. Otherwise, this entire thing about his lightsaber needs to be removed. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 18:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 83) *****I see what you mean. If you play the game, the saber does not possess any unique properties until after the player adds crystals, say the Upari and the Sapith ones. Then the player would receive a +9 to attack and damage, instead of normal attack and damage. If you add others, such as the Krayt dragon pearl and the Opila crystal, it changes nothing. If you add a Bondar crystal, it increases the crystal's stun capabilities, etc. So in lieu of that, should I remove it?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:53, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 84) ****** Yes, then remove it. If there are no unique properties, then there need not be any mention of it at all. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 01:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 85) *******Got it. Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 86) * "Bandon's unique lightsaber&hellip;" PoV: Clarify.
 * 87) **Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 88) *&mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 21:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 89) As JvS is an in-universe book, can you add something to the end of his bio about how he was remembered. Ie, Bandon's role in the War was remembered for many thousands of years to come, although over this time some of the details of his role were obscured." The explanation for this is already in the Bts. --Eyrezer 01:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 90) *Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 91) **I didn't necessarily mean to just copy what I put above. I haven't actually looked at JvS. Look at that and see who discussed him and in what format, and expand that sentence a bit. --Eyrezer 05:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 92) ***Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:53, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 93) ****That works. --Eyrezer 04:53, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 94) Harrar
 * 95) * Should we really refer to the "destruction" of Taris? Sounds like the planet was destroyed. Hows about the "devastation", unless this is how it's referred to canonically
 * 96) **Yes, that is how it's referred to in game. It's canon.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 97) * "who managed to escape Taris with Revan and his companion's help" &mdash; should this be "companion's" or "companions'"?
 * 98) **This is correct, as well.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 99) * "Bandon even began to set his sights on his Sith Master's throne." &mdash; you use the word "even" here, but the previous sentence implies that it is expected of Bandon to set his sights on his Sith Master's throne. I'm not suggesting that you simply remove "even" but that perhaps you re-word it so that it reads like a verification of a rumour.
 * 100) * ..."they ran into Bandon". I find "run into" a little colloquial. Also this is too heavy on Ulgo and Revan's perspective. Can we reword so it's from Bandon's viewpoint more, in that he lay in wait or confronted them as they entered the corridor in which he was?
 * 101) **Taken care of, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 102) * "alive, if at all possible" &mdash; while you don't intend it, this can be read as Revan-worship. Do we need the "at all" here? It makes Bandon's task seem doomed from the start, which is in turn a bit teleological.
 * 103) **I think Malak's intent was to get Bandon from just killing Shan, I fail to see how this isn't relevant, since it's a line from the game.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 104) * You repeat also twice in two sentences in the first P&T section; can we reword one please?
 * 105) **Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 106) *Very interesting, it's been a while since I played KotOR. -- —Harrar  ( Cut the comm chatter ) 17:05, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 107) The Main Course&hellip;
 * 108) * "Sometime after the destruction of Taris&hellip;" This paragraph starts too ambiguous. Highlight that Calo Nord was first dispatched but failed and that Bandon was sent thereafter. Eliminate the ambiguity to sharpen things up chronologically. Plus, the second sentence has too many compound clauses. I cleaned part of it up, but it could be better. Keep in mind, additionally, verb tense: past vs. pluperfect and past progressive vs. pluperfect progressive when making chronological comparisons.
 * 109) **Try it now?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 110) *** Ambiguity is gone but the chronology still needs to be sharpened. Why is the 'who' clause for Bastila offset in em dashes but the 'who' clause for Nord set off with commas? Move the Nord stuff up. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 111) ****Try it now. Put &mdash es for stuff on Nord.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 112) ***** Objection stands. "Ambiguity is gone but the chronology still needs to be sharpened&hellip; Move the Nord stuff up." &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 113) ******I don't get it when you say, "Move the Nord stuff up." Do you mean put it in ther first paragraph?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 23:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 114) *******Objection defunct: The line in question got sifted out. It will work as it stands now. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 115) * " Two years into the Jedi Civil War&hellip;" This does not come from the databank entry that is cited. Please cite a source that states the exact timetable&mdash;preferably, the exact year.
 * 116) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 117) * "Malak imparted much of his Sith knowledge to the young Bandon, and was not disappointed with his choice, since many Jedi soon found themselves the victims of Bandon and his double-bladed lightsaber. It was not long before rumors began to spread that Bandon would challenge his Master for the right to rule, as was the manner of the Sith." Maybe this is too nitpicky or trivial, but this feels&mdash;and almost is&mdash;lifted right out of the databank. One or two sentences is one thing, but a paragraph is a bit much. Please be a bit more creative with the wording and/or structure.
 * 118) **Kasra, Fiolli is absolutely correct in what he is saying here. This is one of the cornerstone rules of how we do things here on Wookieepedia. Every time anyone opens up a page in the editing view, they are greeted with this description: Do not copy text directly from other websites such as the Completely Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia or the StarWars.com Databank. This is plagiarism at its finest, even if you change around one or two words. Taking text verbatim as you have done here is unacceptable, even if it's only one sentence. Please do not do this when writing an article. It's as simple as that. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 119) ***I apologize, try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 120) ****I would still prefer a slight reordering of sentences if possible. Preferably, take one (or two as a block) of them and move it up or down the paragraph a touch as it fits. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 121) * "Bandon eventually began to set his sights on his Sith Master's throne." This sentence seems like a duplicate. If he was, in fact, seeking the throne, say so either along with or tied into the rumors from the prior sentence.
 * 122) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:52, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 123) * "In the year 3,956 BBY&hellip;" This is still not fixed; this date is not from the game. Please cite a correct source.
 * 124) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 125) * "Bandon was given a chance to kill the former Dark Lord." Did he know it was Revan? I want confirmation that he recognized him in order for this to stay. Otherwise, reword it.
 * 126) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 127) *** The same problem exists. (From above: Did he know it was Revan?) &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 128) ****No source states one way or another. I'm not sure. What am I supposed to say, Republic soldiers?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 129) *****Exactly; anything other than "Revan" unless Revan has a qualifier. Put an "although" clause in or something. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 130) * "Sometime after Malak ordered the destruction of Taris&hellip;" Needs context. Why destroy Taris?
 * 131) **Isn't this context? "Sometime after Malak ordered the destruction of Taris in an attempt to kill Bastila Shan&hellip;"--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 132) *** Bah. Wrong objection. Sorry. "Sometime" is too ambiguous. Please give something a little more concrete. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 133) ****Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 134) ***** It is unchanged. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 135) ******Huh, could've sworn I'd taken care if it. Maybe it was something else. Anyway, I think, "after" is a little more concrete. Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 136) *******It works. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 137) * Calo Nord needs a little context. What did he know about Revan and Shan? How?
 * 138) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 139) *** Again, Revan's name is used. Did Nord know it was Revan? If so, that needs to be qualified. If not, his name cannot be used. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 140) ****Again, no source explicitly states whether Nord knew or not. The game certainly imples this, otherwise, why didn't Karath just tell Malak about Shan's escape from Taris with Onasi's help, and leave it at that?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 141) *****Going with an implication is speculation. Unless it is crystal clear otherwise. Aside: What was said by Karath? &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 142) ******This is the dialogue from the game: "Lord Malak, forgive me. There is something else. May we have a private audience away from the ears of the common soldiers? "I trust you are not wasting my time, Admiral Karath." "I promise you will be very interested in what Calo has to tell you about Bastila's other companions, Lord Malak."--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 143) *******What I would suggest is that an "although" clause is put into the text with regard to Revan. Something along the lines of Shan escaped although with the help of Revan, or although Nord was unaware of Revan's identity, etc. Nord surviving Taris might need to be mentioned to show how he knew of Shan's escape, too. We'll see once the addendum to Revan gets in there. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 144) * "After Nord was killed by Revan, who had been retrained in the Jedi ways and commissioned by the Jedi Council on the planet Dantooine to find the Star Forge, the Sith Admiral Saul Karath informed Malak of Nord's failure." Too compound and too chronologically confuddled.
 * 145) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 146) * "After Revan and his companions found the fourth of the five Rakatan Star Maps that would lead them to the Star Forge, Bandon confronted Revan." A few things. (1) There is no known number of Star Maps. There may be more than five. (2)"That would lead" alters the tense and the conditional does not tie in well here. (3) The Star Maps and Star Forge should have their own separate context. In other words, do not combine it into some auxiliary clause that means little. Give them their due.
 * 147) **In game, there are only five Maps, so it applies. Took care of the rest, I think.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 148) *** (1) This article is not limited to the game so it does not matter that there are only five in the game. The wording implies that there are only five in the whole galaxy. The definite articles are the primary, although not the only issue. The sentence needs to be reworked. Please change this. (2) Part two is fine, now. (3) Again, they need their own context. A qualifier here would be great. Also, removing "Rakatan" did not help this point. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 149) ****Does this work? Bandon confronted Revan after the former Dark Lord and his companions found a fourth of the five Rakatan Star Maps, which were necessary to learn the location the Star Forge. Also, context is already given on the Star Forge, in the "Early Life" section.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 150) ***** No, it does not work quite yet. Now, to answer the message that you sent me. You exactly made my point. We do not know how many Star Maps there are, period. Therefore, do not use the word the in this sentence. "The" is a definite article that says there are only five and rules out anything else regardless. To say there are only five is speculation because we have no canonical source that confirms only five. One way or the other we do not know. The objection stands. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 151) ******Ok, removed the part that states "out of five". Now merely reads, "a fourth Rakatan Star Map:.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 152) *******So you know, the "out of five" was not where the issue was since that was not what the article said. The text said "out of the five" which made it finite. I like it better as you have it now, anyway, with the entire clause removed. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 153) * "&hellip;the Shadow Hand presumed that Revan and his team would be no match for him, expressing his fear that someone else had killed the redeemed Jedi, thereby depriving Bandon the "pleasure" of slaying him." This does not make sense. It seems like something is missing. Context? A phrase missing?
 * 154) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 155) * "Bandon's role in the Jedi Civil War was remembered for millennia to come, although over this time some of the details of his role as Malak's apprentice were obscured." Do not be an apologist for mistakes in canon. Is there a confirmed source that states that the details became obscured? If not, do not make up something that says so just because a canon source varies.
 * 156) **I'm not trying to be an apologist. Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 157) *P&T and P&A later. &mdash;  Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 19:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 158) *A couple of things that popped up:
 * 159) ** "Malak sent Bandon after Revan, Shan, and their companions, ordering his apprentice to bring Shan to him&mdash;alive, if at all possible." Rework this so that there is no em dash. It reads oddly. Breaking the sentence up might help. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 160) ***Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 161) ** "In 40 ABY, the investigatory agent Gannod Chant&mdash;who worked for the Council on Security and Intelligence&mdash;translated a manuscript written by suspected Sith sympathizer Ingo Wavlud." Is there a reason why the central clause is offset by em dashes rather than commas? &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 162) ***Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 20:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 163) ** I could have sworn we fixed this earlier, but there are two em dash clauses in the first sentence of the second paragraph of the introduction. This should not be. Move the Nord information to the front of the paragraph and eliminate the em dashes. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet}  02:31, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 164) ***Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Comments
 * I'll take care of the last few objections next week. I'll be gone tomorrow and on the weekend.
 * OK, about the intro, is this part necessary? Malak was pleased with his choice, for Bandon was successful in eliminating many of his former comrades. I personally think it is, but I'll remove it if you don't think it is.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)