Talk:Sith Empire/Legends

Members of the Old Empire ?
Since Athiss, Vjun, and Ambria all had Sithspawned critters, is it safe to assume they were once part of the old Sith Empire?? I have added them to the list. Please feel free to discuss the merits of this assumption.

Sector?
Is it really accurate to consider the Sith Empire a sector? -- SFH 03:29, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Capital Korriban
Should we count Korriban as one of the capitals? It does seem to be where the Dark Jedi first located the Sith, and it has been mentioned as where they were headquarted. -- SFH 17:26, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC) why is that? from what i've read in Legacy of the Force Ziost seems stronger in the dark-side than Korriban.--God of the Sith
 * Ziost was always the Sith capital. Korriban was the burial world. Check Golden Age of the Sith and Fall of the Sith Empire if you don't believe me. QuentinGeorge 19:37, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I do believe you. But in our discussions on Sith (species), you yourself said that Korriban was were the Sith Order was headquartered. -- SFH 15:41, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Sith Order, yes, Sith Empire, no. The subsequent Sith Orders (Kun's, Revan's, the Brotherhood of Darkness and then Bane's) generally had more to do with the world of Korriban than they did with Ziost. The original Empire, however, was headquartered on Ziost. QuentinGeorge 21:00, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh. My mistake. Never mind then. -- SFH 21:02, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Symbol
Isn't that logo specific to Revan and Malak's Sith Empire, thus why it's in the shape of the Star Forge? I believe the ancient Sith Empire's logo was the one the OS uses in the Databank (the leftmost one): http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9426/eras9ry.gif Lord Hydronium 06:49, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC) Yeah, but what about the New Sith Empire? That one still has the same symbol as the Jedi Civil War Sith Empire.
 * That's what I'm thinking. The symbol from the KOTOR games should only be on the page for the Sith Empire (Jedi Civil War). -- QuentinGeorge 06:52, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Redemption 07:06, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Fixed. - QuentinGeorge 06:14, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * In KOTOR, the symbol for Revan's Empire is said to have been the insignia of the Sith Order as a whole, for what that's worth. And isn't this current symbol just the insignia of the Dark Lord, and not the Sith Empire itself? Kuralyov 06:24, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * However, it seems the KOTOR symbol is specific to that time period - particularly since it contains a stylised image of the Star Forge. For your second question: - It's never definitively established whether the other symbol is Dark Lord specific, or a symbol of the whole Empire. It appears on the foreheads of Dark Lords, but I can't recall if that's the only place its seen. QuentinGeorge 06:29, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Fall of the empire
Didn't it occur around 4,990 BBY? Kuralyov 02:36, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Re-organization
The 'Re-organization' entry in the info box does not seem necessary. The two empires where not connected to each other except by ideology...--Sentry 07:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Krath founded Sith Empire?
Didn't the Krath, after losing Empress Teta, move to what was traditionally Sith space and reconstitue the empire?

That being what Revan and Malak later encountered?
 * There's no evidence that the Krath did that, although Krath almost certainly did reside on Korriban in the years between the wars. Kuralyov 02:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Move
Uh, why was this article moved to "Old Sith Empire"? That name is non-canon and biased towards a certain perspective. This was the original Sith Empire. It does not require a prefix. For instance, we do not call the Galactic Republic the "Old Republic", even though that name is heavily used in canonical sources, because it is not its proper name. – Sentry  Talk 21:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Image caption
*Can someone caption this image, someone who actually knows what it is. Jasca Ducato Sith Council (Sith campaign) 20:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Religion
Shouldn't the Religion be Sith? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 11:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Source
Whats the source for this? About a thousand years later, a powerful Jedi Knight and hero of the Mandalorian Wars discovered the truth. The Sith Empire still existed, and was responsible for convincing the Mandalorians to invade the Republic. Realizing that the Sith planned to completely and utterly destroy the Jedi and the Republic, Revan gave himself to the dark side and founded his own Sith Empire, intending to conquer the Republic in order to prepare it for the coming battle. When his plan was foiled, Revan ventured into the Unknown Regions to seek out the Sith Empire and stall the coming war. It is unknown if he succeeded

I think this is just speculation Polziper 06:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Capital Korriban
I have to respectfully disagree with the assertion here that Ziost was always the capital of the Sith Empire. Although it can be said with relative certainty that it was the capital since at least the reign of Marka Ragnos, perhaps earlier, the Tales of the Jedi series of comics (for the record, not only does that series mark the first appearance of Ziost, it also marks its first mention as capital of the Sith Empire) makes it unequivocally clear that Korriban is the planet on which the exiled Dark Jedi first landed, the planet on which the Sith species was first discovered, and, thus, the original capital of the Sith Empire (specifically, see Tales of the Jedi: Knights of the Old Republic).

It seems to me that the belief that Ziost was the planet on which the Dark Jedi landed, interbred with the Sith species, and founded an empire stems primarily if not exclusively from Abel G. Peña's Evil Never Dies article, which, in the process of retconning Adas's character, placed the relocation of the capital to Ziost directly after his reign, and as such before the arrival of the Dark Jedi. So, as is apparently not uncommon in this day and age of excessive cross-references and retroactive rectification, there seems to exist an inconsistency.

Case in point? Whether you go with Tales of the Jedi and the material that conforms to the information provided thereby or Evil Never Dies and the sources that reference it, Ziost was not always the capital of the Sith Empire, and the original homeworld of the Sith is, indeed, Korriban.

Hierarchy
The descriptions of the social hierarchy sound more appropriate for later-era Sith, such as under Revan; for example, the Ancient Sith did NOT have Sith assassins, since they had no contact with the Jedi until 5000 BBY, when they were wiped out. The Ancient Sith Empire had the following castes: 1. Slave 2. Engineer 3. Massassi (warrior) 4. Kissai (priest) 5. Sith'Ari (Sith Lord) 6. Dark Lord of the Sith (only after 6,900 BBY) JustinGann 13:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Fall of the Empire
"A decade later, the Republic launched a second assault against the Sith Empire, resulting in its splintering and eventual collapse." What is the source for this? Looks like a fanon to me. QuiGonJinn (Comlink) Delete Keep
 * I don't agree with this, either, but I think whomever added that in is basing his/her statement on a curious label in the Tales of the Jedi Omnibus, volume I. Golden Age of the Sith and Fall of the Sith Empire are divided by cover pages, each with artwork and a date. The cover page of GAotS states the events within took place 5000 BBY, and, interestingly enough, lists the events of FotSE as 4,990 BBY. I don't know what Dark Horse's source for that is, but it is a possible explanation for this edit. I say it should be removed. -- Alejj Andrus 20:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm bringing this subject again. This sentence has been here with a Fact tag for a long time and it seems that no one knows it's source. Moreover, it seems that it was based on the Dark Horse timeline in FotSE(which is rather odd itself since GAotS and FotSE lead directly into each other and a ten year gap doesn't make any sense). When I read it for the first time, it confused me, because I never heard of the so called "second assault". I checked several sources like The Essential Chronology, Guides to Characters, Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds, Dark Side Sourcebook and didn't find a mention of it. So I think we should delete this information until someone finds a source (if there is one) and proves it. However, someone may disagree with me, therefore I decided to start a consensus. Two options:  QuiGonJinn Be mindful of the Living Force...Quigonheadshot.jpg 18:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Per my reasoning. QuiGonJinn Be mindful of the Living Force...Quigonheadshot.jpg 18:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments

I'm sorry I'm confused. what happned to this Empire? After the Cold War where did they go? Did they fight with Darth Ruin in the New Sith Wars. I'm sorry I'm so clueless, please be kind.

Date of Establishment
I challenge the idea that the old Sith Empire was founded by the Exiles in 6,900 BBY based on information from The Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. It says that the Sith species conquered other worlds around the time when King Adas relocated the capital from Korriban to Ziost circa 28,000 BBY, thus constructing what would later become known as "Sith space." Is this not imperialization?" That's what an empire is: an expansionist body ruled by a monarch which usually conquers other territories by force. That's an empire right there, my friends. So really, wouldn't the first Sith Empire have been founded around 28,000 BBY, just following their victory over the Rakatan invaders; and then the Dark Jedi of the Second Great Schism simply took control and continued it? 71.61.97.8 21:50, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. It has been discussed here: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:KB:The_Old_Sith_Empire:_Date_of_Establishment&t=20081109035925 71.61.97.8 04:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And Here is the new article on the subject. 71.61.97.8 23:32, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Symbol?
As with artical names, isnt the image of an artical suppost to show its latest possible look (like showing Ankin as he appeared in episode 3 rather than vader). So as the latest known symbol for the sith empire was the one to appear in the upcoming swtor game, shouldnt we use that symbol insted? Alexsau1991 19:48, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the SWTOR symbol chronologically predates the currently displayed symbol, it technically isn't the "latest" known IU symbol. -  JMAS  Hey, it's me! 19:55, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * i was under the impression that the currant symbol was the one used during the great hyperspace war thus predating the tor symbol, after the sith empires appearence in swtor the next sith empire was the New Sith Empire. If im in what was the currant symbol used and what date? Alexsau1991 21:17, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyway i'll bring this up again when bioware releases a higher quality symbol. Alexsau1991 08:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The current symbol is really from the Great Hyperspace War era, while the TOR symbol is used by the Empire 1200 years after it. So I agree with Alexsau1991 and Support the change of the symbol. QuiGonJinn There's always a bigger fish. 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Clarity
With more and more information coming out on the Sith Empire as seen in TOR, this article is becoming less and less clear. For example, I expect the section on starships to become a troublesome hotspot once TOR ship classess start to arrive. Therefore I'd like to move the information on the Sith Empire as seen in TOR into either a separate article, or into the True Sith article. It's just to different from the old Sith Empire to keep in the same article, even though it is more or less the same state. Note that this wouldn't be without precedent. Already there are separate articles detailing the Galactic Empire, the Imperial Remnant, the Fel Empire and Darth Krayt's Sith Empire, even though it's essentialy the same state. Before I start, however, I'd like to see what you all think of this idea Gorthuar 15:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Creation of the Empire
The Unnamed Sith Lord mentions that "Our time has come. For three hundred years, we prepared.[...]". Doesn't that put the beginning of the Empire at arround 3990 BBY and not 5000 BBY or earlier? How can we be so sure about it? And now I'm speculating but isn't it possible that the empire was formed by remnants of the Jedi Covenant or by some Dark Siders from the Freedon Nadd uprising or Exar Kun's army? Would it be right to mention all possibilities since there's no actual canon? Scorp18 18:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Those three hundred years *are* intriguing. It almost sounds as if these Sith were the remnant of Revan's and Malak's Sith Empire... and completely flies in the face of the Sith Emperors already established background. The only reconciliation I can offer is that perhaps a significant portion of the Sith loyal to the Sith Emperor, aspecially those who are not Red Sith, indeed *are* the remnants of Revan's Sith Empire. But, of course, we'll have to wait and see. Gorthuar 20:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought the whole point of Revan's turn to the dark side was to stop these Sith. Steves490 20:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what Darth Traya said about Darth Revan. But she had been lying to the Jedi Exile in many ways all the way so I don't think she can be considered a source worth to trust. Could make sense if Revan went back to stop/face what he remembered he had began, or what turned him to the Dark Side. More than that, if you watch carefully the new video (which is awesome btw) you'll notice that the Sith Lord who's igniting his lightsaber first in the vehicle looks like Darth Revan... An homage to their Dark Lord (suggesting they were formed by Revan), or their usual armor (suggesting Revan was just one of them)? Scorp18 20:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)