Talk:Jedi/Legends

This page seems to conflict with the Jedi Code listed here in Wookiepedia. --qrc 00:48, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Dressing code
Under 'way of life'discussing Jedi appearance, we read


 * The left side is always on the right part of the dress

This phrase is incomprehensible and maybe needs to be reworded IMHO. Personally I don't understand what it means! MoffRebus 10:41, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC) Ok recently I read Rouge Planet and it said that the Magister's finger had
 * "a thick steel ring set with a pentangle of small red stones. Anakin recognized it as one of the old signet rings once handed out to Jedi apprentices."

How come there is no other references to the signet rings? JediLibrarian66 7:38, 21 July 2006

Okay fellas I was thinking on updating the section that details the dress of the Jedi under "Way of life" to make it easier to understand. First should I state Jedi wear Kimono style tunics? As technically Jedi wear Kimono style robes (except for the cloak). Though they were never addressed as "Kimono style" in Star Wars, they have been addressed that way in our world. And traditionally Japanese Kimono's were always fastened left side over the right side, even for the females. Right side over left was only used on burial shrouds. I was thinking on changing it to: "In keeping with the tenets of modesty and humility, the Jedi traditionally wore simple and comfortable long flowing robes. Which consisted of Kimono style tunics, a cloak, and sometimes a two-piece shoulder cloth tabard—usually in varied tones and shades of white and brown. Though, grey was also a common tabard color. Though there were exceptions, such as in the case of Anakin Skywalker, whom wore leather tabards. The kimono style tunics typically came two layers, and were long-sleeved. The inner tunic was actually sewn more like a T-shirt, and fastened at the neckline. The sleeves were tight fitting and hugged the wrists. The outer tunic was sewn more in the traidional Kimono style. The outer tunic sleeves usually had a flowing drape on them and fell to the knuckles. The left side of the tunics were always fastened over the right side. The Jedi also wore trousers, an obi, a leather utility belt, where they carried specialized field gear for their missions, and tall leather boots, usually with removable shin guards for protection. Jedi cloaks came in a variety of different styles. Jedi such as Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi wore more traditional cloaks. Mace Windu wore a traditional cloak with very long flowing dramatic drapes on his sleeves. Anakin Skywalker during his teenage years wore a sleeveless cloak with arm slits in the sides. Though during the Clone Wars he abandoned this style in favor of the more traditional style cloaks. Barriss Offee chose to wear a sleeveless cloak that fitted more like a cape. The Jedi colors formed a stark contrast to the antithetical Sith, who were draped primarily in black. In accordance with their philosophies of non-attachment, clothing was viewed as quite dispensible; Obi-Wan Kenobi, for example, went through over six separate robes throughout the course of the Clone Wars." Now I can back up this claim that the Jedi inner tunic was sewn more like a T-shirt, and fastened at the neckline. Take this picture of Ewan McGregor during filming of Episode II for example: http://www.padawansguide.com/obiwan/images/ewan_in_undertunic.jpg Impassioned Jedi 22:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Separate Articles?
Since this is the Star Wars Wiki, I think that the Jedi Ranks should each have their own separate articles.--Darth Fisto 00:37, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. At the very least, Knight and Master require their own pages. Then there are the less canonical titles.--SparqMan 02:46, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree--Eion 07:24, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you.--Jeedai123 01:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Celibate
Oh, good grief, what's this?: The Jedi are a unchaste monastic organization. You make it sound like some sort of ancient near-eastern pagan fertility cult. I don't think that sentence conveys the original meaning, which was that they are forbidden to marry (barring, of course, special exceptions such as Ki-Adi-Mundi, who was given an exception because of low Cerean birth rates). We know nothing of their standards regarding chastity. – Aidje talk 16:40, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, Jedi are celibate, in the traditional meaning of the word. Celibate = Do not Marry (as opposed to "chaste" which means no sex outside of marriage. So, Jedi are celibate, but not chaste.
 * Ahh, good catch.--Eion 07:24, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's quite so cut and dried as that. Answers.com gives both of those definitions for celibate, and also gives celibate as a synonym of chaste. The Usage Notes for celibate say that the meaning has changed during the 20th century to include chastity. It is my suspicion that if one were taking a vow of celibacy it typically would be assumed that one would remain chaste as well. In other words: chaste = no sex outside of marriage, celibate = no sex at all, not even in marriage. Just my $0.02. – Aidje talk 16:30, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I wonder how they dealt with species that reproduced asexually. --SparqMan 17:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Presumably, having a child, even if you were the only parent, would be a large stumbling block if one was trying to avoid attachment. – Aidje talk 18:03, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

It probably should say calibate. Or "celibate (but not chaste)". Or have a small paragraph later explaining the information (including the Ki-Adi-Mundi exception and the fact that the New Jadi Order isn't celibate) --Death Regis 18:28, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * My vote goes for leaving it out of the initial paragraph (since it's too complicated) and having a later section that talks about marriage/ attachment/ exceptions/ differences between old and new order/ etc. – Aidje talk 18:38, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I just put it in the opening paragraph b/c I couldn't think of a better place, but the important thing is that Jedi do get freaky, they just never go steady.--Eion 19:49, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Hopefully my edit has at least sorted it out a little --Fade 13:51, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

How about some ancient Jedi families? like Nomi Sunrider's family until her descedant Vima Da-boda? Maybe it shoudl be added that the rule of celibacy was later. 62.74.5.202 19:30, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

-- Eon Kaaz 00:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Who said they would have sex only for procreation?
 * where i get lost is people like Vima Da Boda and Rostek Horn, they have children and significant others but no attatchment is allowed. and i'd say children count as attatchment Needa
 * For a record, Jedi could have sex if it was necessary for their mission. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:57, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I seems as though Jedi are not allowed to have children, in RotS Padme believes Anakin will have to leave the order when information about their child gets out. So while this doesn't necesarily mean they must be completely chaste, children appear to be forbidden excepting special circumstaces (like Ki-adi)--Jerry 17:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * basically Jedi can have sex, as long as they don't get attached. So there all whores :P, if its needed for the mission to work undercover then theres no rules. Jedi Dude 22:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

NJO Code
Should the NJO code get its own article? --SparqMan 18:32, 11 May 2005 (UTC) I haven't read the NJO books (they started coming out too fast and I didn't enjoy their hard-scifi style, so I just gave up). I'm merely referencing the NJO article which says, "The order itself is set apart from the Jedi order of the Old Republic by a new code and a broadened view of the Force." (emphasis my own) --SparqMan 19:46, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * What is the NJO code? Is there an official version? Or do you mean the new Jedi Order itself? In which case, I think it should, and that article could also cover the Jedi Praxeum and the Galactic Alliance High Council. Kwenn 19:19, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Jedi types
I'm really not sure this should be included in the articles- it sounds more like an artifact of RPGs than anything else. Is there anything a little more solid (other than game mechanics) to back this up? -Fade 22:27, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Would user Jaster stop using lightsaber colors to determine whether a Jedi is a consular or a guardian? Both Qui-Gon and Luke are guardians! Does the fact Luke go from blue to green to red mean he keeps changing affiliation? No! Don't use KOTOR game to make changes like this. It's an RPG convention so, if we are going to keep this on the page (and perhaps it should be culled) please use the actual SOURCE! QuentinGeorge 09:57, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. If the KotOR colour system was used at all, then it was at the time of the KotoR game. After 1,000 before Yavin they were 99% green or blue anyway. --Beeurd 15:32, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I've now done something with this. Someone can modify it further if they see any reason to. --Fade 19:19, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Based off the wikipedia article, there are other jedi types. There are Healers, Investigators, and Librarians/Historians. I think that this is accurate, however, they may just be roles that a consular or sentinel play. Still, I think they should be included. In "Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords", there are advanced classes, Jedi Weaponsmaster, Watchman, and Master. I think that these are also other types but are still, like the last more of an expansion of former types. Perhaps, there should be recognized that per se Guardians often become Weaponsmasters or Consulars Masters or Sentinels Watchmen? That would recognize that there isn't a set type that the Jedi MUST pertain to. You know? I agree that colour does not show ones affiliation to a certain group or type, it is a nifty system to help other Jedi know who you are, like if you were in battle and the Medic Jedi weilded a Red and the Guardians Blue, then you would know who to go to for help. (This last line has no source, just my opinion).

Master title
um.. the third movie said you get the title of master if you sit on the jedi council. What's up with that?
 * Well, there are masters (an honorific to refer to any jedi knight, e.g. Master Jedi) and then there are the inner ciricle, the MASTERS, these are the council members. However, Ki Adi Mundi was not a master when he first took a seat on the council, so the point is moot. Plus, Anakin was just pissed; he needed the title so he could access the sith holocrons of the archives so he could save Padme--Eion 01:06, 28 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Being called "Master Kenobi" doesn't mean you are a Jedi Master. It is just a term of address for any fully-fledged Jedi (Knight or higher). Being on the Council usually means you are a Jedi Master, except for Anakin or Ki-Adi-Mundi. Ki-Adi-Mundi may be a little continuity error there, but I'm sure it will be address sooner or later. QuentinGeorge 06:03, 28 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I would also like to add that there are a lot of Jedi Masters who aren't on the Council. JimRaynor55 07:25, 28 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, Padawans refer to their masters as Master, even if their master is a Knight.

Population
Do we know about how many Jedis existed during some certain periods in the whole Galaxy? Hundreds, Thousands or Millions? I think that during the prequel-era the Jedis were declining and were relatively few, but I don't think that the number seen in the battle of Geonosis is repesentative. Do we have any source? 62.74.4.199 22:10, 29 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * At the time of Episode I, the number of Jedi in the galaxy was about 10,000. Unfortunately, I don't remember the source. – Aidje talk 11:17, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * There are several sources - the Ep I/II novelizations and Cloak of Deception, off the top of my head. Also, from KOTOR, it cna assumed that there are only a few hundred, at most, Jedi in the galaxy. Kuralyov 14:26, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * After the Great Jedi Purge, only five survived, to the best of my knowledge. Yoda, Obi-wan, Empatojayos Brand, Vima Da Boda, and perhaps a few others who were not mentioned, as the EU novels suggest.


 * I think there were more... I cant remember everyone but im sure there are more. Go to the Great Jedi Purge link....

If you read Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader you'll find several jedi who survived the purge, albeit they didn't survive their encounter with vader
 * Strangely, more Jedi are known to have survived Order 66 than to have been killed, although most Jedi mentioned during the pre-Ep I EU material died. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 17:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

"Major Jedi"

 * The Major Jedi section seems to have degenerated into a list of Jedi, which we already have. MarcK 10:27, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * We need some sort of guideline as to what amounts to notability. – Aidje talk 19:27, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'd suggest only listing Jedi that have had a leading role in a book/movie/game/whatever, or other Jedi who have been mentioned as being worthy of note. No padawans unless they did something very remarkable, IMO. eg: Zett Jukassa: He was on the screen for all of 15 seconds and killed a couple of clones, does that make him a "major" Jedi? I think not. --beeurd 22:44, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * While Zett is now one of my favorite Jedi, I have to agree with you&mdash;his brief appearance, cool though it may have been, hardly qualifies him as major. He killed more than a couple, by the way. :-) – Aidje talk 04:58, 25 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * While trimming down the list, I noticed another trait which does not qualify a Jedi as 'major': appearing in KOTOR. I have a feeling that every KOTOR Jedi was on that list. – Aidje talk 05:45, 25 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Do we really even need a Major Jedi section? How about just a link to List of Jedi.  If people really want examples of notable Jedi, there are no shortage of them in the text itself for the reader to look up.  jSarek 05:57, 25 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. The listing in the article is merely a carryover from Wikipedia. Excise it, and just have a link to the big list. QuentinGeorge 06:26, 25 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * That would certainly make things easier; we wouldn't have to make so many decisions, and we wouldn't have to worry about our trimming being undone. jSarek is right that there are many names in the text, anyway. I'm all for just putting a link to the list in ==See also==. – Aidje talk 16:20, 25 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Right, so if we're all in agreement in just ditching the section altogether I'll go ahead and get rid of it. MarcK 14:56, 26 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Recent history of the jedi
I deleted this section, since it was copied over to Jedi history, where I think it'll work out better. I replaced it with a brief timeline with a link to the jedi history article, but any short summary will probably work there.-LtNOWIS 06:24, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Grand Master?
I've been searching the web and keep coming across the title of "Jedi Grand Master". It says that Yoda held this position under the Old Republic, and that Luke Skywalker also holds it. Is this an actual title, or is it some fanon creation? -- SFH 03:44, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Power of the Jedi says that both Yoda and Luke were acknowledged as the "Grand Masters of their respective orders" but doesn't say it was an actual title. QuentinGeorge 06:05, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Dark Rendezvous and The Swarm War specifically use the title in relation to Masters Yoda and Skywalker - 86.130.227.128

Luke gave himself the title as a way of uniting the Jedi during the Kilik crisis. But most Jedi came to accept the title as a permenant one. In the Old Order though usually the Jedi with the most understanding was made head of the Jedi Council hence Yoda. But Yoda's title was not real, Luke's isDarth Brutus09 03:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)Darth_Brutus09
 * Yoda's title was real. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 16:33, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * As confirmed by Dark Rendezvous. The name itself was likely inspired by the title of Grand Master given to the leaders of real-world "warrior monk" religious orders such as the Knights Templar - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 16:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Remove 'Doomed' Tag
Because this is a major page I thought I would post here before removing the tag myself. This article looks pretty clean to me now. Anyone opposed to removing the tag? --Culix 17:39, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Seems okay to me. --SparqMan 17:56, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)

History
That big chunk of history added needs to go into the History of the Jedi Order page, not here. QuentinGeorge 07:58, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Main Picture
Since this is one of the most popular pages on the Star Wars Wiki, I figured I'd leave a note here before changing the main picture. The picture i'm replacing it with, funnily enough, is an Episode III promo shot of Mace, Anakin, and Obi-Wan, instead of the Episode II one we have up now. If anyone would like me to change the new image or crop it for any reason, or would like or do it themselves, feel free to do so. --Knightfall 01:17, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd rather you leave the one that's there. I picked it for a specific reason - it shows one member of each of the rank - padawan, knight, master. The Episode III was shows two masters and a knight. Please don't replace it. Feel free to put the other one somewhere in the article, if you want. QuentinGeorge 01:21, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem. I'll change it back.--Knightfall 01:26, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I've put them both in. QuentinGeorge 01:27, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I'm not trying to be biased, but I really think my promo picture is a better representation of the Jedi Order than the edited picture that "The Koon" has put on here. Especially because of the fact that it showed the Jedi with their lightsabers ignited. I dunno, I just thought it more effective than the one thats in here now. Any thoughts?--Knightfall 01:49, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Lightdagger
If you look at the lightsaber article, then you'll see the lightdagger. I really don't like the idea of lightdaggers, but I have used it one or two times on my sister's rp, www.mdream.avidgamers.com. You can use it even if you're not in the NJO. I like that. It's cool. But there's a bad thing about it: if you're being hunted, then a bounty hunter can sneak up on you and set the dagger to stun, and then he can stun you with it. That would not be good. Any comments? --Jeedai123 01:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * this is irevlevent and isn't the kind of content we want on talk pages, thank you Jedi Dude 22:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Surviving Jedi
"Several Jedi survived the Great Jedi Purge, but many more severed their connection to the Force." Do you think this is true? My friend said it when I asked how many Jedi he thought survived the Great Jedi Purge. I agree with him. Do you? --Jeedai123 01:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Rules for Jedi Behavior
Taken from the Power of the Jedi book, think any of this should be added?

Rules for Jedi Behavior


 * Following The Code
 * Self Discipline
 * Conquer Arrogance
 * Conquer Overconfidence
 * Conquer Defeatism
 * Conquer Stubbornness
 * Conquer Recklessness
 * Conquer Curiosity
 * Conquer Aggression
 * Conquer External Loyalties
 * Conquer Materialism
 * Responsibility
 * Practice Honesty
 * Honor Your Promise
 * Honor Your Padawan
 * Honor Your Master
 * Honor the Jedi Council
 * Honor the Jedi Order
 * Honor the Law
 * Honor Life
 * Public Service
 * Duty to the Republic
 * Render Aid
 * Defend the Weak
 * Provide Support

-Should I just move this to the talk section of the Jedi Code?

Seperate article
This has just come to my attention. Does anybody think that we should actually seperate the article into two seperate articles. One being Old Jedi Order (to match with New Jedi Order), and another being Jedi.

The first article, Old Jedi Order would describe the Jedi Order as a whole and its impact upon the galaxy, pretty much like the New Jedi Order article does. The Jedi article would describe the individualism of the Jedi themselves. It could involve things such as Clan stages (and notable exceptions), the trials, becoming Masters and much more.

Its only a rough idea but what do you think? Jasca Ducato 19:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think its a good idea.Grunny 05:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

We should add Jedi Rules of Engagement
5. Understand the dark and light in all things. 6. Learn to see accurately. 7. Open your eyes to what is not evident. 8. Exercise caution, even in trivial matters.

these are the ones from Cloak of Deception.


 * If this is going to go anywhere we need replies to this. Jasca Ducato 14:34, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What are the first four rules? KEJ 14:38, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Move to Old Jedi Order

 * Should we move this to Old Jedi Order to match with the New Jedi Order? Jasca Ducato 15:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello? Jasca Ducato 16:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Against. This article describes the NJO as well, though to a limited extent. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Removed Section
I have taken the liberty of removing this section:

"There has also been speculation of a romance between the Jedi Exile and either Visas or Brianna."

The fact is, the Exile's gender has not been confirmed. So listing his/her romantic interests is not a smart idea.

Yoda Quote
Okay, if someone doesn't reply to this in two days I will change it. (I would acctually prefer some support) The quote that we used of Yoda's is currently "My ally is the Force..." but what he REALY said was "The Force is my ally...". So I'm gonna change it if there are no objections. Lord vader1414 16:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * No, its correct. The full line is:

"And well you should not. For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is."-Redemption 16:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. Man I gotta watch ESB again...Lord vader1414 06:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Jedis view of love
I think we should add a paragraph about the jedi's view of love, who agrees?

Master Nikolce 07:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea. If you have a good idea of what to say, go ahead. I think it would be nice. oh, and at the begining of the section i sugest you use the quote from the AotC premo poster: "A Jedi shall not know anger. Nor hatred. Nor Love." Just a sugestion though. -Lord vader1414 05:13, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Who can and who can't be a Jedi
So only those who are Force Sensitive can be Jedis, so not just any one can be a Jedi, Right? Double D 17:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep. Jasca Ducato 17:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, yeah. Others could try, but what's the point, right? -Lord vader1414 05:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The ones who tried but weren't Force Sensitive to make the cut went into the Jedi Service Corps. --Thetoastman 17:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Main Image
Okay, this article really, really needs a new image. 1) It's written in English, not Aurebesh, and therefore is automaticallly OOU. 2) It's from promotional Episode III T-shirts, and never appeared in-universe, even without the writing. 3) The Bendu symbol is the symbol of the GAR, not the Jedi. Can we agree that the main image has got to go? --Thetoastman 17:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, it is the Bendu sysmbol. And there are plenty of other images with english written on them that are canon. The "Remember Alderrean" poster for example. Jasca Ducato 17:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Locations Tied to the Order
Has anyone ever considered creating a list of worlds which are tied to the Jedi Order in some way, shape or form? I mean, it's easy to find information on worlds like Courscant, Dantooine, Yavin IV, Ossus, and Tython; but what about the Jedi chapterhouses on Aleen or Rhinnal? There's no mention of the ruined Jedi temple on Caamas anywhere that I can find on Wookieepedia. Ilum can even be difficult to connect to the Jedi unless you're already aware of it. I've been scanning Wookieepedia and other sources -- canon material and fan-made "encyclopedias" of canon -- for worlds which are tied to the Jedi Order, so that an article can be created on the worlds and sites of the Jedi Order. Any help would be appreciated. Randy Starkiller 16:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll help. I've been creating my own list of Jedi/Sith locations and planets for a while. If we create the article I'll put up all I have. I have eras for nearly all my locations too. What should the title be, should it focus on only Jedi locations or Sith and other Force based organisations too?Grunny 01:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've got a short list of Jedi locations up at a page titled "Locations of the Jedi Order". Another article on Sith articles would be handy, and as for other Force organizations... few are as galaxy spanning as the Jedi and Sith Orders. Randy Starkiller 01:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've just added some locations to your page I think I'll create a Sith one.Grunny 02:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

the jedi symbol or logo.....
the symbol that appears at the top of the screen, when you oppen this articcle shows a strange symbol that if you notifie, its first in occidental alphabet instead of the known "aurebesh" alphabet shown to be the galactic alphabet for galactic basic, and second and maybe most important is that is not the true symbol. If you pay attention on the star wars episode II, when master yoda feels anakin's anger just before master windu enters in to the room, a symbol on the floor is shown, also when the room's door poens to let pass mace windu, the same symbol is show in the door and its not the one you are showing here. That is for the old jedi order symbol... and is niether the symbol of the new order, if you have ever seen it it appears in the game jedi outcast. Even thoug it is difficut to find the true symbol, it fits more to the canonical and real one. yeah i now it is the same topic from another forum but its still something to think jasca ducato..., and even thoug you are right telling us many symbols are also in normal language, is aurebesh the "real" one, and even with that the true symbol does not have any word! (sorry don`t have any acaunt but u you can call me viento)

Origins of the Order
Since the beginning and most likely before the Galactic Republic, scientists had been studying the Force and its connection to midi-chlorians, most notably the Paladins of the Chatos Academy, The Followers of Palawa and the Order of Dai Bendu, on planets like Ondos and Had Abbadon.

Since I don't have the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook in front of me, I was wondering if this statement is to mean that scientists studied the Force, midi-chlorians, and those semi-legendary organizations that were the forerunners to the Jedi OR that those Force-users were the scientists that studied the aspects of the Force.
 * The force users and the scientists were one and the same. They were studying the force, not the organisations they were members of. QuentinGeorge 06:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Dark Jedi loyalty
I was wondering, does anyone think that in some way, a Jedi could give in to the dark side but still feel loyal to the jedi order? I know it's unlikely, but i was just wondering what everyone else thought about it.
 * thats the worse thing about the dark side whatever the action it feels right to do even if its bad it may seem right, the deception of the dark. Remember medstar, it happened with Barries in that.So in answer to your question, yes i think there can be a jedi out there following the dark to make things better. Jedi Dude 20:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Instruction
Sometimes Council members, who were frequently at the Jedi Temple, where initial instruction commonly took place, served as Jedi instructors. It is apparent that when Depa Billaba looked after the Younglings in the Jedi Temple during the Battle of Geonosis, she taught them. Yoda comes to mind immediately as a Council member who was a Jedi instructor, but he was the Grand Master. Note that Yoda also was an instructor on Chu'unthor, but this was before his appointment to the Council. --68.224.247.234 19:47, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Split
Does anyone else think that we need separate articles for the Jedi as a religion/set of beliefs, and the Old Jedi Order as an institution? I mean, we have separate pages for the NJO and other Jedi offshoots, and the Sith orders are covered at their own pages and not merely at the Sith page. Kuralyov 07:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the splitting would be a good idea indeed. --Tinwe 11:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Time to resurrect this point. I agree as well; we need Jedi and Jedi Order. "Jedi" are not synonymous with the Order, as post-RotS material shows - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, a Jedi is an individual, not an Order. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Six robes
What is the source for Obi-Wan Kenobi having gone through six robes? In each of Episodes I-IV, he goes through a new robe. Does this include his uniform in Star Wars: Clone Wars? --Shon Kon Ray 05:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Jedi Behavior and Rules of Engagement
The information provided above (Rules for Jedi Behavior and Jedi Rules of Engagement) should go into the article, especially the "Path" section and "Way of Life" subsection. The first four rules of engagement have to be mentioned as well. Perhaps someone could check Cloak of Deception. --Shon Kon Ray 23:00, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Liason and diplomacy
I know there is is a fair bit more to be said about this role of the Jedi. I'm going to try to expand it, and I would appreciate some help. - Angel Blue 451 00:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Aargh! It's "liaison", not "liason"! (I still don't know what the heck this word means, but I do know how it's spelled. :p) - Sikon 03:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Political Stance
My question is where are the Jedi on the political scale. From a political point of view, the Jedi are a religion and last I checked, the church has no power in our government, so how do the Jedi have power in theirs? user:Darth Vatrir
 * What do you mean? Most modern democracies emphasize the separation of church and state, but that does not mean that every government system does so. Also, the Jedi are not purely a religious organization. In the course of Republic history, they have been integrated into the government; acting as an arm of the judicial system and even as military leaders.– 00:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, well in the government, what would their political placement be? user:Darth Vatrir
 * Erm, i can only think of calling them Secret Police. They're not the Gestapo, but they're in the same political standing. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith campaign) 08:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The Jedi are under the auspices of the Judicial Department. There are plenty of democracies with an established religion that wields political power. Until recently, Bishops from the Church of England sat in the British House of Lords - the UK equivalent of the Senate. QuentinGeorge 08:56, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, why don't the Jedi have a seat in the Galactic Senate. The Trade Federation does and they're a megacorperation, not a representitive of a sector. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Who says they don't? Just because we don't see their representative doesn't mean they don't have one. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith campaign) 11:54, 17 October 2006 (PDT)
 * It's pretty clear that they don't: the judicial/military function of the Jedi seems to be sorta a quid-pro-quo wherein the Jedi, as an independent organization, were requested to provide members for military/peacekeeping operations. As such requests became more and more common, an organizational structure for such requests would undoubtedly develop. However, it's strongly implied that the Jedi are never recognized as 1) a state religion, or 2) a de jure political force-- The Erl of the  talk  What I do 00:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Jedi Government
Should the Order be called an oligarchy? I mean, it certainly isn't a democracy when the Council, which chooses its own members, controls everything. I think this should be clarified. Evir Daal 10:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Why the revert?
Surely, the section about the Jedi way of life should also describe older Jedi traditions, not only what they were like in the Clone Wars period? If my contribution was badly written, by all means feel free to edit it, but did you have to remove it? Evir Daal 07:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Knowledge of midi-chlorians
"Since the beginning and most likely before the Galactic Republic, scientists had been studying the Force and its connection to midi-chlorians."

Is this true? By which I mean, is this outright stated in any source? I don't have the NEC, so forgive me if I'm wrong but all the evidence I have seen points to no-one (barring the rakata) having any knowledge of midi-chlorians at all. For example, in the KotOR comics set at 3,963 BBY, Demagol is busy studying the Jedi in the hopes that he can learn what gives them their Force powers... why would he need to do this if midi-chlorians had already been discovered? Likewise, there is no mention of Darth Bane being given a midi-chlorian test in Path of Destruction - which you'd have figured that the Sith would have been doing had they the means (and why wouldn't they?).

Qui-Gon Jinn tells us that, "without the midi-chlorians life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force", but that doesn't neccessitate the midi-chlorians being discovered first, just that once they WERE discovered, their significance for life and the Force became known.

I'm starting to think that midi-chlorians were only quite recently discovered (when you take the entire history of the galaxy into account). Perhaps during the KotOR era, or maybe even as far down the line as 1000-900 BBY.

Anyway, if I'm way off and there is a direct reference, feel free to enlighten me.(Ulicus 23:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)) So, am I take from the lack of responses that no-one has any idea and that the article is just speculating? (Ulicus 05:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Just realised I should probably have posted this in the "origins of the Order" section above... (Ulicus 23:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC))

Behind the Scenes: Jedi Types
Consular, Guardian, and Sentinel are all canonical. Yes, they started out as gameplay mechanics, but the KotOR comic series used this system; Master Lucien was a Guardian and had a blue lightsaber, the other masters were Consulars and had green lightsabers, and Zayne (presumably a Sentinel) had a yellow lightsaber. Though he is not stated as one specifically, dialogue clearly establishes that this system is indeed real and should be followed as it is in the KotOR game. Bredd13 04:40, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Enemies
Is there ever going to be any mention in the sidebar for the enemies of the Jedi order,specifically the Sith the Krath and the Morgukai? Sochwa 07:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, add it if you think it's relevant. KEJ 13:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Jedi

 * Just out of curiosity, is it ever mentioned what the origin of the name "Jedi" is (in the Star Wars Universe)? This seems like a random question, but it's not. Bredd13 04:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * interestingly, i don't think it ever has been. but its most likely an old Ossus world for "defender" or something. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 11:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought; no origin at all. Interesting. Bredd13 22:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Featured

 * How is this a featured article even though it needs to be cleaned up? Bredd13 21:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Main image
I just reverted what I thought was vandalism. The anon appeared to have removed the main image. Oddly, when I did this, it didn't bring back the normal image, but rather that disgusting goatse image. I hastily reverted again, but when looking at the history the goatse image doesn't show up at all.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron 23:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's your cache. Images on wikis are notorious for not updating properly when replaced. It could be worse though, it could be like at Wikipedia, where it affects articles too. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 01:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Main Image Source?
What source gave the logo as the Jedi symbol? I've only ever seen it used as the Legacy-era logo. Trip 19:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The NEWT. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The discovery
Does anyone know what practices and legal rights were in place for Jedi taking children away from their parents? Qui-Gon gave Anakin a choice, but he was old enough to ask. In most instances the child will be too small, so the parents would have to decide. But seeing as parents are unlikely to just give up their child to complete strangers for training in a monastic order, and that there actually are Jedi in the galaxy, isn't it reasonable to assume that they have some sort of legal right to take children away from their parents against their wishes? Especially in times of war with the Sith, where the need for fresh blood is great. Does anybody know anything about this?

Heh! Baby-napping. Certainly doesn't speak in favour of the Jedi...DarthMRN 02:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No, but I think this was the basis for an article on Holonet News-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 03:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, in the case of Bastila in KotOr, I think I remember her saying the Jedi made a deal with her parents, although she was old enough to remember it when she was discovered (and perhaps discovered before the doctrine had been formally established), so I don't know how much that says about the usual procedure. Evir Daal 09:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In times of war, the Jedi wouldn't focus on training children in the Force. They wouldn't be alot of good against the Sith, would they? And the Jedi had some legal rights, but there is at least one document incident where the Jedi fought a custody battle of a child. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Such as this.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 14:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In times of war, the Jedi wouldn't focus on training children in the Force. They wouldn't be alot of good against the Sith, would they?

Seeing as these wars often lasted for a good old while, I expect they did. And if they didn't, how did they replenish their ranks then? Train adults?! But that trial suggests that Jedi ranks are dependent upon either willing submission of children, or orphans. It hardly seems likely that the Jedi would ignore a load of Force Sensitives just because their parents were unwilling to give up their children. Would the Sith take that into consideration? I don't see the Jedi having much choice if they wanted to survive a war.

And another thing. Since there was actually a trial, doesn't that mean the Jedi had some sort of legitimate claim to the child, apart from strictly Jedi concerns? One strong enough to challenge the real mother?DarthMRN 14:38, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm mistaken, the Jedi did train, and even send to battle, children during the Dark Age of the Republic. I don't know about the other wars, though. Evir Daal 08:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Move to Old Jedi Order/Jedi Order

 * From my understanding, a Jedi is a singular meaning the individual, whilst the Jedi Order is what this article is about. We have an article named the New Jedi Order. so i propose we move this article to Old Jedi Order.

Support

 * 1) [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 18:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) DarthMRN 21:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) QuentinGeorge 21:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC) - Absolutely not. If this page is moved I will move it straight back and lock it.
 * 2) If you can find a source calling it the Old Jedi Order then I'll change my mind, but unless you do then it's a fanon name. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) *What about "Jedi Order"? That's the canon name, i think. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) Aside from the fact that it's just silly, I've never seen it specifically called the "Old Jedi Order" as a proper name. -- Darth Culator  (Talk)(Kills) 21:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 5) Per Culator. -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 21:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 6) We don't call the Galactic Republic the "Old Republic". Why should we call the Jedi Order the "Old Jedi Order"?– 22:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 7) *Would everyone please note that there is a second vote down below. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 22:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 8) Oh no! More maniacs! ;-) KEJ 14:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments

 * I'll sort out any redirects that need fixing if the move goes ahead. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 18:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm. we have an article named simply "sith". But then again, that acts more like a diambiguation page for all the different organizations. Sure, why not. DarthMRN 21:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The thing is Quentin, if you move it back, after a vote has been held which supports a move, your breaking Wookieepedia policy. And someone else would just revert your edit. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "Jedi" is both plural and singular. They were referred to as "the Jedi" or "an army of Jedi" (paraphrased), so I think that sort of nullifies that concern --SparqMan 21:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC).
 * But those are both singular, i think. "the Jedi [Order]" would be the correct term. For example, "The Jedi [Order] has arrived", or "The Jedi [Knights] have arrived". [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Is anything stopping us from creating the page and give it the conjecture stamp?DarthMRN 00:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 22:43, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) QuentinGeorge 06:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC) - Don't move this page.
 * 2)  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 06:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Still opposed. Jedi are Jedi, Sith are Sith, and you should stop trying to change things just for the sake of change. -- Darth Culator  (Talk)(Kills) 06:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) 1000 maniacs strike back! ;-) KEJ 14:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment
Er, why is this seen as such a stupid idea? "Jedi" and "Jedi Order" are two different things; we have "Sith" as well as the various Sith orders, so why not the same here? Besides, there was obviously no Jedi Order after 19 BBY, but there were still Jedi, so the two are not synonymous. "Jedi" should cover traits and powers, "Jedi Order" should cover organization, structure and history - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, OK, I'm an idiot for not reading the proposal correctly. Amendment: Yep, I'm opposed to simply moving this article to "Jedi Order", but I'm very much for splitting it - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I proposed something like that a fair while ago. I'm for a seperation, as a "Jedi" is a person, not the name of the Order. The Order is officially named the "Jedi Order". [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Jedi aging slower/living longer?
I thought I read/heard somewhere that Jedi age slower/live longer than non-force sensitives. Is this true, or was it something someone made up? I didn't see any mention of it in the article or talk page, though I could have missed it. - (Indy Gold, still not registered) 68.251.146.98 20:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This is the first i heard of it, but i wouldn't be surprised. The Force could help them live longer. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 14:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I remember reading in an early bantam book, possibly Truce at Bakura, Luke pondering whether Jedi live longer and he refers to Yoda who in his opinion shouldn't live that long as he is of a smaller species, however as it was a while ago the author may not have of had info on the subject, or it could just be Luke geussing as he really didn't know all that much at the time. If I got the book wrong, or made a mistake in my description, I'm sorry it's been a while since I read it however I distinctly remember that part sticking in my mind. Grunny (Talk) 14:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, they say so in the new (D20) SW roleplaying game Core Rulebook, complete with age tables and all; if I remember it correctly, Force-sensitives had a 50 % longer possible lifespan. I don't know how seriously this should be taken, though. Evir Daal 09:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, everyone. :) Those places are probably where the idea came from. I noticed it was noted on the unknown tridactyl species page that Jedi are known to live longer, also. - Indy Gold 05:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Required to Demonstrate Mastery?
This was added by an anon to the Lightsaber section: ''All Jedi Knights are expected to master at least one form of lightsaber combat. By mastering it they should not only be fully trained and use the force to guide them, but also showing they have trained in it to a high degree of formidability. A true lightsaber weilder is highly formidable.''

What is the source of this? It strikes me as conjecture that they are expected to master a form of lightsaber combat. There are a number of ways to look at this, and unless we have a definitive source, I say we leave it out. Maclimes Zero''' (talk) 18:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Split, again
This needs to be split into "Jedi" and "Jedi Order"; the former dealing with culture, way of life, the Force, training etc; the latter organization and history. As it stands, this page can pretty much be used for the "Jedi Order" article with the removal of the "Path", "pillars", "ranks", "specialization" and "bts" sections - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 14:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Need i say this, but i agree. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 10:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Does anyone else actually care about this, or should I just go ahead and split them? - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 15:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Is it OK to split? - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Meh. Jedi Order created. Now this page needs a new intro, and both could do with expansions - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)