Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2018 March 4

01:59:51 <@Toprawa> !hieverybody 01:59:51* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 01:59:52 <@Nuku-Nuku> Hello, AV-6R7, Ayrehead02, Boots, ChanServ, CorellianPremier, Culator, Cwedin, DarthRuiz30, DeFender1031, ecks, exiledjedi, GreenTentacle, grunny, Imperators, Jangston, Lewis, momoyome, Nuku-Nuku, Omicron, PurpleTentacle, Supreme_Emperor, Tm_T, Tommy-Macaroni, Toprawa, Typer, and Whopper !!! 01:59:57* Topic for #wookieepedia is: Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements Fandom - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference IN PROGRESS - Off-topic chatter: #wookieepedia-social 01:59:57* Topic for #wookieepedia was set by ecks!ecks@wookieepedia/administrator/pdpc.active.ecks on Sun Mar 4 01:51:53 2018 01:59:59 <@Toprawa> And here we go 02:00:02 <@Toprawa>  Welcome to Mofference 2018 02:00:06 <@Toprawa> We're going to dive right in 02:00:15 <@Toprawa>  We'll start with item 1 on the agenda 02:00:20 <@Toprawa> Which happens to be me 02:00:45 <@Toprawa>  This is our Administrative autonomy policy: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:AA 02:00:46 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Administrative autonomy | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:00:52 <@Toprawa> Shouldn't be any surprises to anyone 02:01:36 <@Toprawa> Just going to get right to the point 02:01:49 <@Toprawa> I am proposing we update/modify the page as so: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 02:01:50 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:01:59 <@Toprawa> That's my project page; forgive the title 02:02:03 <@Toprawa> This isn't really changing anything 02:02:27 <@Toprawa> It's just outlining in much greater detail the well-established procedures that we have developed over the 15 years we've been a wiki 02:02:59 <@Toprawa> More specifically, it gives greater instructional emphasis to how to proceed when overturning an admin decision 02:03:12 <@Toprawa> Before, it was kind of loosely organized at best based on that one sentence from the existing policy page 02:03:14 <@Toprawa> Ok, that's it 02:03:16 <@Toprawa>  Let's talk 02:03:17 <@Toprawa> ecks 02:03:18* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 02:03:23 <@ecks> Floor is open 02:03:43  Seems like an obvious inclusion. No objections on my part. 02:03:47-!- Typer (~Tyber@wookieepedia/Tyber) has left #wookieepedia 02:03:49 <@ecks> I really like the protection clause, since admins tend to slap indefinite protections on articles and there's no way to undo those without asking them 02:03:53 <@Culator> This is good. I like that it addresses former admins, which I had actually meant to bring up at some point but never got around to. 02:03:53 <@Supreme_Emperor> It's all very straight forward and essentially just clarifies what we've been doing, so definitely yes 02:03:53-!- Tyber (~Tyber@wookieepedia/Tyber) has joined #wookieepedia (acc: Tyber) 02:03:53* ChanServ sets modes [#wookieepedia +v Tyber] 02:04:00 <@ecks> which essentially makes WP:RFP absolutely useless 02:03:59  Looks good to me. 02:04:07  sounds good to me 02:04:14   Same here, all good 02:04:15  Great! 02:04:17 <@ecks> so no objections from me here 02:04:20 <@Ayrehead02> Works for me 02:04:25 <@Toprawa>  We'll give it a minute or so to let people read through it, since there is a bit there 02:05:15 <@Toprawa> If anyone has any comments, speak up now before we begin the vote 02:05:29  That all looks good to me 02:05:32 <@exiledjedi>  I assume canonical applies to both Legends and Canon? 02:05:38 <@Toprawa> Yes 02:05:47  question: Is this going to help with for example HK-47 article? 02:05:52 <@ecks> yes 02:06:00 <@Toprawa> That was the specific example that helped influence this 02:06:21 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote 02:06:23 <@Toprawa> ~open 02:06:23 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 02:06:26 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 02:06:27 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 02:06:28 <@Culator> ~support 02:06:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 02:06:30 <@Toprawa> ~support 02:06:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 02:06:33 <@ecks> ~support 02:06:31 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 02:06:32  ~support 02:06:32 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 02:06:33 <@grunny> ~support 02:06:33 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 02:06:34  ~support 02:06:34 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 02:06:34 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 02:06:34 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 02:06:36 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 02:06:36 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 02:06:36 <@exiledjedi> ~support 02:06:36 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 02:06:38  ~support 02:06:38 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 02:06:39  ~support 02:06:39 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 02:06:40 <@Imperators> ~support 02:06:40 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 02:06:41  ~support 02:06:41 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 02:06:43  ~support 02:06:43 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 02:06:49  ~support 02:06:49 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 02:07:02 <@Toprawa> Vote will close in 10 seconds. Vote now or forever hold your piece, peace? I don't know. 02:07:13 <@Toprawa> ~close 02:07:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 02:07:15 <@Toprawa> ~tally 02:07:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16 02:07:18 <@Toprawa> Vote passes, 16-0 02:07:20 <@Toprawa> Moving on. 02:07:20* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 02:07:23 <@Toprawa> Item 2. 02:07:28 <@Toprawa> Is me. 02:07:55 <@Toprawa> Ok 02:08:09 <@Toprawa>  We're all familiar with the skin choice between Oasis (Wikia) and Monobook 02:08:28 <@Toprawa> Many of our established users like to use Monobook, which is fine 02:08:47 <@Toprawa> However, the vast, vast majority of people who look at our wiki are seeing our articles in the default skin, which is Oasis 02:09:06 <@Toprawa> Like, we have a circle of like 10-20 core editors who use Monobook 02:09:09 <@Toprawa> The rest of the world is using Oasis 02:09:14 <@Toprawa> That's like 99.9% 02:09:27 <@Toprawa> So we should be formatting our articles as such 02:09:50 <@Toprawa> It's become a practice now for a few months on the different nomination pages to tell peopel to format paragraphs and images for Oasis, for example 02:10:06 <@Toprawa> Because due to the vast difference in margin sizes between the two skins, an image placement in one place might look completely different between the two skins 02:10:17 <@Toprawa> I'm presuming most of us are familiar with this concept 02:10:23 <@Toprawa> If not, raise it when we open the floor and we can show examples probably 02:10:43 #wookieepedia-social #wookieepedia-agricorps #wookieepedia-inquisitorius #wookieepedia-rc #wookieepedia-cabal #wookieepedia-educorps #wookieepedia 02:10:46 <@Toprawa> So I am proposing an addition to the MOS and LG that standardizes this formatting. 02:11:02 <@Toprawa> No one is going to force anyone to change skins, but we should be mindful of how we're formatting our articles 02:11:21 <@Toprawa> These, then, are my proposals: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 02:11:22 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:11:34 <@Toprawa> Note, this is not going as far as saying "Oasis is the official skin of Wookieepedia." 02:11:51 <@Toprawa> We're not officially recommending any skin to anyone 02:11:58 <@Toprawa> But as far as article writing, you should be formatting for Oasis 02:12:00 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk 02:12:02* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -mv Tyber] 02:12:18 <@Supreme_Emperor> Totally makes sense 02:12:24  Seems logical 02:12:26 <@ecks> Monobook forever. But you're right -- I overheard somewhere that around 200 of wikia's million users use Monobook 02:12:29  can you provide a little more detail to the policy? 02:12:36 <@ecks> and it's completely possible it might be gone by the end of the year 02:12:35 <AV-6R7> Basically, we’re just codifying standard practice, right? 02:12:38 <@Culator> It makes sense. I hate it, but it makes sense. 02:12:40 <@Toprawa> Yes, AV 02:12:45 <Tyber>  I would add the mobile skin to the mix. 02:12:48 <@Toprawa> Omicron, I'm not sure what else you need to see 02:13:12 <@Toprawa> I'm not intending to address mobile with this topic 02:13:18 <@Culator> We can add the mobile skin to the mix when the mobile skin stops blowing goats. 02:13:19 <@Toprawa> If you want to discuss mobile, that's a completely different animal 02:13:22 <@Toprawa> Save it for a new topic 02:13:25 <@Ayrehead02> As someone who switched over to Oasis permanently for this very reason, I fully support this 02:13:29 <Boots> I always format in Oasis for precisely this reason. Since it's what most people see it makes the most sense to give the most attention to this format. I support these changes. 02:13:29 <@Culator> Oasis sucks, but at least it doesn't blow goats. 02:13:41 <Omicron> it's sort of vague: Wookieepedia articles are to be formatted for ideal presentation in the Wikia skin, also known as Oasis. 02:13:50 <@Supreme_Emperor> I typically edit in Oasis for this reason 02:14:02 <@Supreme_Emperor> I think it's pretty clear 02:14:11 <DarthRuiz30> sounds good 02:14:14 <Lewis> No arguments here 02:14:14 <@Toprawa> It's intentionally meant to be a general policy, Omicron 02:14:18 <@ecks> For y'all Monobook users, there's a piece of JS that can give you an oasis button at the top of every page 02:14:17 <@Toprawa> To apply to everything 02:14:21 <@ecks> PM me if you want it 02:14:29 <@Toprawa> Whatever you're formatting, make sure it looks good in Oasis 02:14:36 <@Toprawa> Above all else 02:15:03 <@Supreme_Emperor> Best thing to keep in mind is people need to see things from a reader point of view 02:15:08 <AV-6R7> At the very least, we’ll have more room for images. 02:15:12 <Omicron> I guess it's good to specify the policy, it might come in handy for objections to FAN/GAN/CAN 02:15:21 <@ecks> yep 02:15:21 <@Toprawa> That's particularly what it's for 02:15:32 <@Toprawa> Article writers and reviewers should get in this habit 02:15:39 <@Toprawa> Our emphasis has long been on Monobook 02:16:06 <@Toprawa> Ok, I think we're good to vote, then 02:16:12 <@Toprawa> Speak up now or else 02:16:21 <@Toprawa> ~open 02:16:21 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 02:16:25 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 02:16:25 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 02:16:25 <Lewis> ~support 02:16:26 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 02:16:27 <@grunny> ~support 02:16:27 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 02:16:27 <AV-6R7> ~support 02:16:27 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 02:16:27 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 02:16:28 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 02:16:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 02:16:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 02:16:28 <Cwedin> ~support 02:16:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 02:16:29 <Boots> ~support 02:16:29 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 02:16:29 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 02:16:29 <@exiledjedi> ~support 02:16:29 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 02:16:29 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 02:16:32 <@Culator> ~sigh 02:16:36 <CorellianPremier> ~support 02:16:36 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 02:16:36 <@Toprawa> ~support 02:16:36 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 02:16:36 <@Culator> ~support 02:16:37 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 02:16:39 <@ecks> ~support 02:16:38 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 02:16:52 <@Imperators> ~support 02:16:52 <@Toprawa> Voting will close in 10 seconds 02:16:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 02:16:55 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 02:16:55 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 02:16:56 <Omicron> ~support 02:16:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted. 02:17:05 <@Toprawa> ~close 02:17:05 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 02:17:07 <@Toprawa> ~tally 02:17:07 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 17 02:17:10 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 17-0 02:17:11 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 02:17:12 <@Culator>  I want so badly to oppose on principle. 02:17:13* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 02:17:17 <@Toprawa> ECKS 02:17:28 <@ecks> woo, it's me 02:17:36 <@ecks> Here's the currrent policy http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:BOLD 02:17:36 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Be bold in updating pages | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:17:55 <@ecks> you'll see it has plenty of Wikipedia links and that's because it was originally stolen, I mean adapted, from Wikipedia 02:18:10 <@ecks> but we aren't Wikipedia and it's about time we Wookify it 02:18:18 <@ecks> so here's my proposal: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test1 02:18:18 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test1 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:18:31 <@ecks> Here's the difference between the old and the new: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3AXd1358%2Ftest1&diff=7459031&oldid=7423494 02:18:31 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test1 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:18:45 <@ecks> There are no major changes, really 02:18:52 <@ecks> OK, I'm opening the floor for discussion 02:18:54* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 02:18:56 <@Toprawa> Cool image. I support. :P 02:18:59 <@Imperators> ^ 02:19:11 <Boots> ^ 02:19:14 <@Supreme_Emperor> It looks "ecks"cellent 02:19:27 <@ecks> (⌐■_■) 02:19:29 <@Supreme_Emperor> XD 02:19:30 <Omicron>  I would include something about sourcing 02:19:59 <@ecks> Do you think a See also link would be enough? 02:20:39 <@Culator> Yes. "Be bold" is not something we link in isolation, so it doesn't need DETAIL on sourcing. 02:20:41 <@ecks> I thought about sourcing, but this is really a landing page for newbies 02:20:46 <@ecks> exactly 02:20:56 <@ecks> I'd be ok with a See also link, however 02:20:56 <Omicron> possibly. maybe a sentence like "We appreciate your additions, but please make sure to properly source them" 02:21:02 <Omicron> and link to the WP:S page 02:21:33 <@Ayrehead02> If your additions are unsourced others are likely to be bold enough to remove them 02:21:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> Source or die 02:21:44 <@Toprawa> Be bold to source, or be bold to DIE 02:21:44 <AV-6R7> heh 02:21:46 <Omicron> I would add it to the don't be wreckeless paragraph 02:22:16 <@ecks> I added a See also link now, but I'm not comfortable with making up something right now 02:22:28 <@ecks> while I understand your point, I don't feel a newbie landing page needs to cover everything 02:22:33 <DarthRuiz30> a See also would work for me 02:22:37 <@Supreme_Emperor>  If need be we ca revisit it at a later point 02:22:38 <@ecks> You don't teach toddlers multiplication 02:22:41 <@Culator> ^ 02:22:44 <@Culator> ^^ 02:22:46 <@Toprawa> You do if they go to Harvard at age 9 :P 02:22:49 <AV-6R7> burn 02:22:52 <@Culator> It doesn't link sourcing NOW 02:23:09 <Omicron> true. but telling people to be bold and add info, without telling them how important it is to source it 02:23:10 <@Culator> We don't need to get into it to do this badly-needed update 02:23:18 <Omicron> seems like a little short-sighted 02:23:18 <Boots> I don't think we should sound too harsh with sourcing sentence. In fact I'd rather leave it out. The whole point of this page is to make new editors feel confident about editing on the site. Saying, "be bold, but don't screw up the sourcing" in addition to "don't be reckless" kinda defeats the spirit of the article. 02:23:22 <@ecks> that's what the welcome template is for 02:23:31 <@ecks> or rather, the new proposed template :P 02:23:38 <@Supreme_Emperor> Also if someone messes up we point it out fairly quickly 02:23:50 <@Supreme_Emperor> This doesn't need to cover every single thing 02:23:55 <@Toprawa> Omicron, maybe (and sorry if I missed this if you said it already) you could show us exactly where in the page you would like to see this and exactly what you'd like to say 02:24:02 <@Toprawa> Due to the immediacy of this forum, we need specifics 02:24:07 <@Toprawa> Not just "I'd like to see this general thing" 02:24:36 <Omicron> I would add it to the reckless paragraph 02:24:54-!- Lewis (~Lewisr@wookieepedia/Lewisr) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:25:08 <@Toprawa> Can you quote for us what you'd like it to say? 02:25:20-!- Lewis (~Lewisr@wookieepedia/Lewisr) has joined #wookieepedia (acc: Lewisr) 02:25:20* ChanServ sets modes [#wookieepedia +v Lewis] 02:25:26* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -v Lewis] 02:25:44 <@Toprawa> Or at least give us a general paraphrase 02:25:55 <@Toprawa> We need to keep this moving 02:25:58 <Omicron> maybe something like: "We appreciate your enthusiam and welcome all additions, but please be sure to follow our sourcing requirements 02:26:02 <Omicron>  and link to WP:S 02:26:09 <@Toprawa>  Any objections? 02:26:24 <@Supreme_Emperor>  Nope 02:26:26 <AV-6R7>  None from me. 02:26:27 <@Toprawa>  ecks? 02:26:32 <@Ayrehead02>  Works for me 02:26:33 <Tommy-Macaroni>  Sounds good 02:26:48 <@ecks> where exactly are you going to put this? 02:26:56 <Boots>  I'd recommend adding on "...for edits that add more than simple spelling and grammatical fixes." 02:27:03 <Omicron>  yeah 02:27:25 <@Supreme_Emperor>  We don't need to go too in detail with it Boots 02:27:28 <@ecks> quoting Boots, "Saying, "be bold, but don't screw up the sourcing" in addition to "don't be reckless" kinda defeats the spirit of the article." and I feel like sticking your proposed sentence in there would indeed be doing exactly that 02:27:34 <Omicron> maybe modify it to state "Factual additions" 02:28:19 <@ecks> ok, my proposal is: 02:28:26 <@ecks> "When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries." <-- tack it onto the end here 02:28:35 <@ecks> When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries and source your additions. 02:28:34 <@grunny> how about changing "When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries." to "When making edits, remember to use descriptive edit summaries and follow our sourcing guidelines."? 02:28:40 <@grunny> or what ecks said ;) 02:28:44 <@ecks> great minds think alike, grunny 02:28:56 <Omicron>  sounds good 02:28:58 <@Toprawa>  Ok 02:29:02 <@GreenTentacle>  Works for me. 02:29:03 <@Toprawa>  With that amendment, we open voting 02:29:05 <@Toprawa>  ~open 02:29:05 <@PurpleTentacle>  Toprawa: Voting is open. 02:29:12 <@Toprawa>  ~support 02:29:12 <@PurpleTentacle>  Toprawa: Support vote counted. 02:29:12 <@Imperators>  ~support 02:29:12 <@PurpleTentacle>  Imperators: Support vote counted. 02:29:13 <Tommy-Macaroni>  ~support 02:29:13 <@PurpleTentacle>  Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 02:29:14 <@grunny>  ~support 02:29:14 <@PurpleTentacle>  grunny: Support vote counted. 02:29:14 <Omicron>  ~support 02:29:14 <@PurpleTentacle>  Omicron: Support vote counted. 02:29:14 <@Supreme_Emperor>  ~support 02:29:14 <@GreenTentacle>  ~support 02:29:14 <@PurpleTentacle>  Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 02:29:15 <AV-6R7> ~support 02:29:15 <Lewis> ~support 02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 02:29:15 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 02:29:15 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 02:29:16 <Cwedin> ~support 02:29:16 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 02:29:16 <@exiledjedi> ~support 02:29:16 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 02:29:22 <@ecks> ~support 02:29:21 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 02:29:23 <Boots> ~support 02:29:23 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 02:29:25 <CorellianPremier> ~support 02:29:25 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 02:29:28 <@Culator> ~support 02:29:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 02:29:31 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds 02:29:38 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 02:29:39 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 02:29:43 <@Toprawa> ~close 02:29:44 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 02:29:45 <@Toprawa> ~tally 02:29:46 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 17 02:29:48 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 17-0 02:29:50 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 02:29:56 <@Toprawa>  JANG ISN'T HERE. 02:29:58* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 02:30:03 <@Toprawa> But we will propose his proposal for him nonetheless 02:30:26 <@Toprawa> The future of the Community Portal 02:30:30 <@Toprawa> "I honestly believe, due to its age and inspiration from Wikipedia, that we should just get rid of the portal since it's repeating the same information new users get from the welcome template and Wookieepedia:Welcome, newcomers. Once we remove the portal, we can then remove the community portal link from Oasis's navigation bar, replacing it with "Wookieepedia:Welcome, newcomers," which, right now, is oddly accessed by clicking 02:30:30 <@Toprawa>  Oasis's "NAVIGATION" link. 02:30:30 <@Toprawa>  " 02:30:35 <@Toprawa> Love and kisses, JangFett 02:30:39 <@Toprawa> OPEN THE FLOOR 02:30:41* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 02:30:51 <@ecks> I like the idea of a community portal 02:30:56 <@ecks> but the current implementation is outdated 02:31:11 <@Supreme_Emperor> Kill it 02:31:15 <@ecks> some of the links are completely broken or to go outdated pages 02:31:17 <Omicron> heh it's got a link for Netscape on it 02:31:24 <@ecks> ^ 02:31:27 <Omicron> bin it! 02:31:41 <@ecks> That said, I'd love to implement some sort of updated community portal in the future 02:31:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> ^ 02:31:46 <@ecks> but for now, kill it with fire 02:31:51 <AV-6R7> Let the past die. 02:31:54 <@Culator> The Community Portal is very 2004. Which is odd, since we were founded in 2005. 02:31:55 <Omicron> I agree ecks 02:32:13 <@exiledjedi> This thing was old when I started. 02:32:17 <@Toprawa> This will effectively be a proposal to delete it, then, just making note of that 02:32:19 <@ecks> these colors are from the 80s 02:32:18 <@grunny> yeah, I think kill and continue to improve other pages as we are doing, like the welcome template. We can always make a new one in some form in the future 02:32:34 <Tommy-Macaroni> Kill 02:32:35 <@Supreme_Emperor> The Welcome template is far more useful anyways for new users 02:32:39 <DarthRuiz30> I agree with ecks 02:32:47 <@ecks> my idea would be some sort of page that shows all ongoing discussions and votes in one place, and more 02:32:49 <Omicron> I agree 02:32:51 <@ecks> but enough about that for now 02:32:53 <@Toprawa> Ok, minds seem clear, let's open voting 02:33:01 <@Toprawa> To kill (delete) the Community Portal 02:33:03 <@Toprawa> ~open 02:33:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 02:33:05 <@grunny> ~support 02:33:06 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 02:33:07 <@ecks> ~support 02:33:06 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 02:33:08 <@Toprawa> ~support 02:33:08 <Omicron> ~support 02:33:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 02:33:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted. 02:33:08 <Cwedin> ~support 02:33:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 02:33:09 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 02:33:09 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 02:33:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 02:33:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 02:33:09 <@exiledjedi> ~support 02:33:09 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 02:33:09 <Lewis> ~support 02:33:10 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 02:33:12 <CorellianPremier> ~support 02:33:12 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 02:33:12 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 02:33:12 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 02:33:12 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 02:33:13 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 02:33:13 <@Culator> ~support 02:33:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 02:33:14 <@Imperators> ~suport 02:33:18 <AV-6R7> ~support 02:33:18 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 02:33:18 <Boots> ~support 02:33:18 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 02:33:22 <@Imperators> ~support 02:33:22 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 02:33:23 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds 02:33:31 <@Toprawa> ~close 02:33:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 02:33:33 <@Toprawa> ~tally 02:33:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16 02:33:37 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 16-0 02:33:38 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 02:33:43* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 02:33:45 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA 02:33:50 <@Toprawa> BTS sourcing. 02:33:53 <@Toprawa> Loved by some 02:33:55 <@Toprawa> Not loved by others 02:34:24 <@Toprawa> For many years, some people thought "self-sourcing" was going a bit too far 02:34:37 <@Toprawa> Forcing people to source at all was like pulling teeth in the beginning 02:34:58 <@Toprawa> In this CT, we made full-article referencing mandatory http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Updating_the_referencing_policy 02:34:59 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Forum:CT Archive/Updating the referencing policy | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:35:16 <@Toprawa> But in the discussion section, the proposal made clear that due to its contentiousness, BTS sourcing would not be tackled here 02:35:28 <@Toprawa> I say it's time to evolve out of our Caveman Days 02:35:43 <@Toprawa> These are our basic Sourcing rules 02:35:54 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:S#Rules 02:35:55 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Sourcing | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:36:08 <@Toprawa> I am proposing we add this to Rule 5: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 02:36:09 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:36:17 <@Toprawa> Note the reference explanation is what shows up in the next section 02:36:20 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk 02:36:23* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 02:36:36 <@ecks> OOU articles are basically one big BTS and they need sourcing 02:36:39 <@Toprawa> I should have noted this too: 02:36:42 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes 02:36:45 <@ecks> Why wouldn't the same apply to IU article BTS sections? 02:36:46 <@Toprawa> OOU articles already do this by default 02:36:54 <@Toprawa> We have a few OOU status articles for real people, etc. 02:36:59 <@Toprawa>  And they're forced to do this by this CT 02:37:08 <@Toprawa>  But the BTS was considered different ground for some reason 02:37:08 <@Supreme_Emperor> This should be a thing, so lets make it a thing 02:37:09 <AV-6R7> I’ve always done this anyways. 02:37:11 <Boots> Everything should be referenced and sourced. I approve. 02:37:22 <@exiledjedi> It is really easy to slip in non-sourced information into self-sourcing BTS sections. 02:37:31 <@Ayrehead02> I converted to the full referencing way long ago 02:37:33 <Boots> I'm surprised this wasn't a policy already. 02:37:51 <@Toprawa> We did too -- the Inq has accidentally made this a probation reason for some articles recently 02:37:51 <AV-6R7> ^ 02:37:58 <@Toprawa> Then we realized it wasn't strictly policy yet 02:38:02 <@Supreme_Emperor> XD 02:38:05 <@exiledjedi>  I've never really understood the opposition to doing this. 02:38:05 <@Supreme_Emperor> So we did 02:38:13 <@ecks> Nobody expects the Wookieepedia Inquisition. 02:38:37 <@Ayrehead02> Is anyone here opposed to this? It seems like the contention might have faded since it was last discussed 02:38:48 <DarthRuiz30> everything should be referenced, I agree 02:38:55 <@Toprawa> I think the overall mindset of the community has definitely changed 02:38:56 <@GreenTentacle> Lazy sourcing was fun while it lasted. 02:38:59 <Tommy-Macaroni> Sounds great 02:39:01 <@ecks> heh 02:39:01 <@Supreme_Emperor> We've evolved a lot since that last vote Ayre 02:39:10 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote 02:39:12 <@Toprawa> ~open 02:39:12 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 02:39:15 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 02:39:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 02:39:15 <@grunny> ~support 02:39:15 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 02:39:16 <@Toprawa> ~support 02:39:16 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 02:39:16 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 02:39:16 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 02:39:17 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 02:39:17 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 02:39:18 <Cwedin> ~support 02:39:18 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 02:39:22 <@ecks> ~support 02:39:20 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 02:39:22 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 02:39:22 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 02:39:24 <AV-6R7> ~support 02:39:24 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 02:39:26 <CorellianPremier> ~support 02:39:26 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 02:39:26 <@Imperators> ~support 02:39:26 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 02:39:27 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 02:39:27 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 02:39:29 <@exiledjedi> ~support 02:39:29 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 02:39:31 <Lewis> ~support 02:39:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 02:39:34 <@Culator> ~support 02:39:34 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 02:39:35 <Boots> ~support 02:39:35 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 02:39:43 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 02:39:51 <@Toprawa> ~close 02:39:51 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 02:39:52 <@Toprawa> ~tally 02:39:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16 02:39:55 <@Toprawa> Motion passes, 16-0 02:39:56 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 02:40:00* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 02:40:02 <@Toprawa> ECKS 02:40:12 <@ecks> Its a me 02:40:17 <@ecks> Alright, the Welcome template 02:40:21 <@ecks> The first thing any new editors see 02:40:27 <@ecks> the thing that everyone is supposed to read 02:40:35 <@ecks> and it hasn't been updated since, like, 2009? 02:40:50 <@ecks> as it is, it's basically a list of every policy we have on the site 02:41:06 <@ecks> Of course it's funny to imagine new editors actually read all those policies 02:41:09 <@ecks> but let's face it, they don't 02:41:20 <@ecks> Meet the new welcome template: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test2 02:41:20 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test2 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:41:25 <@ecks> Major changes include: 02:41:33 <@ecks> The color theme has been changed to a fresh Wookieepedia light blue. 02:41:33 <@ecks> The endless lists of links that no one will ever read have been transformed into five concise bullet points with links to our core policies. 02:41:33 <@ecks> A bunch of links have been removed altogether as unnecessary; obscure policies and outdated help pages are gone. 02:41:39 <@ecks> The == heading == has been moved outside the template, to prevent the TOC from appearing inside the template like it does currently. 02:41:49 <@ecks> Convenient diff link: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3AXd1358%2Ftest2&diff=7424379&oldid=7423514 02:41:49 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test2 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:42:03 <@ecks> I posted in the SH asking for feedback, but there wasn't much to it http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:SH:Welcome_template_2.0 02:42:03 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Forum:SH:Welcome template 2.0 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:42:12 <@ecks> So, let's open the floor 02:42:13* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 02:42:16 <@Toprawa> Be bold, indeed 02:42:22 <@Supreme_Emperor> It's "ecks"actly what it needed 02:42:23 <Omicron> I gave my feedback in the SH 02:42:28 <Omicron>  I like it 02:42:35 <Tommy-Macaroni>  Love it! 02:42:36 <AV-6R7> I looked over the SH thread; looks good to me. 02:42:43 <@ecks> the image is a bit outdated but I haven't been able to find a good replacement 02:42:44 <@Toprawa> Not going to hold up the discussion on this, of course, but maybe center-align MTFBWY? 02:42:46 <Boots> I like the changes. Much needed and more important now that the Community Portal has been deleted. 02:42:49 <@ecks> and that can always be changed at a later time 02:42:48 <DarthRuiz30> looks really good 02:42:55 <@ecks> Toprawa, remember that the signature comes after it 02:42:53 <@Ayrehead02> I like all of it, my only suggestion is perhaps mentioning canon/legends tabs? 02:42:57 <@Toprawa> Oh yeah 02:43:04 <@Toprawa> I've been trounced 02:43:38 <@ecks> I thought about that, but honestly I'm not sure if it's that necessary or even where to put it 02:43:40 <@Ayrehead02> I've seen a lot of new users clearly not understand the separation, for example Jddeezoologist or whatever he was called most recently 02:44:22 <@Ayrehead02> Hmm, I could see it as a bullet point of its own 02:44:25 <@Ayrehead02> Something like 02:44:53 <Omicron> I agree 02:45:03 <@Toprawa> I'm not sure if adding more text is in the template's best interest 02:45:09 <@Toprawa> People are already not going to read those six bullet points 02:45:14 <Boots> ^ 02:45:14 <@Toprawa> Not to impugn ecks' work 02:45:16 <Cwedin> ^ 02:45:18 <@Toprawa> But no one reads shit 02:45:23 <@Culator> ^^ 02:45:25 <Tommy-Macaroni> Quality, not quantity 02:45:29 <@Ayrehead02> Hmm 02:45:31 <@Supreme_Emperor> People are inherently lazy 02:46:02 <Omicron> still it would be nice to highlight the difference between the two continuities 02:46:03 <@Ayrehead02> Ok, I agree that it being as concise as possible is good 02:46:17 <@ecks> is there anything in those bullet points that can be removed? 02:46:43 <@Toprawa> I realize the tab difference is important, but I think most people seem to get it 02:46:45 <@Toprawa>  The number of confused cases is relatively small 02:46:46 <@Ayrehead02> And people seem generally opposed to adding more, so I'm happy to leave it for now if that's the general feeling 02:46:59 <@Ayrehead02> We can always add it at a later date if it's becoming a major issue 02:47:18 <@ecks> correct, and we have a template too, 02:47:19 <Omicron> maybe expand the 3rd point to include "Make sure your additions are in the right continuity 02:47:30 <@exiledjedi>  The people who don't understand the tabs probably won't read the welcome message either. 02:47:39 <@Ayrehead02>  Fair point 02:47:41 <@Supreme_Emperor>  ^^ 02:47:46 <AV-6R7>  ^^^ 02:47:55 <@ecks> if y'all didn't know about it already, but this is a thing: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Msg-continuity 02:47:56 <@ecks> use it 02:47:55 <@Nuku-Nuku>  Title: Template:Msg-continuity | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:48:03 <@Toprawa>  This is a thing too. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:FAQ#Canon_questions 02:48:04 <@Nuku-Nuku>  Title: Wookieepedia:FAQ | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:48:05 <@Toprawa>  Not that people read. 02:48:06 <@Supreme_Emperor>  We can't prevent ignorance, but we can correct it with talk page warnings 02:48:10 <@Toprawa> If that doesn't mention the tabs, it certainly can 02:48:18 <@ecks> and Msg-continuity is barely a warning 02:48:19 <@Imperators> I don't know if the bit about the user page and signature is that important 02:48:19 <@Toprawa> But that page is linked in the Oasis top nav bar 02:48:21 <@ecks> more like a heads-up 02:49:02 <@ecks> I felt like we needed a bullet point to focus on privileges instead of responsibilities, Imperators 02:49:43 <@Toprawa> New users are typically obsessed with their userpages too 02:49:50 <@ecks> yeah 02:49:50 <@exiledjedi> I think all of the bullets in the proposed template kind of need to be there. 02:49:55 <@Supreme_Emperor> ^ 02:49:56 <@Imperators> I mean, the voting eligibility link is good, tho 02:50:11 <@Toprawa> I think it tackles the brass tacks of what people need to know 02:50:15 <@Toprawa> It's up to them to read 02:50:42 <AV-6R7> Lead a horse to water and all that. 02:50:50 <Omicron> I still think it might be important to say something about the 2 continuties 02:50:52 <@Toprawa> We can always discuss future modifications in the SH, too 02:51:01 <@Toprawa> We're voting on this, but it doesn't need to mean "NO MORE CHANGES" 02:51:03 <@ecks> yeah, I'm not opposed to adding more later 02:51:13 <@ecks> the image can/should be changed too, imo 02:51:15 <Omicron> it seems like most of the reverts are because of people adding things to the wrong articles 02:51:25 <@ecks> but I can't think of anything better right now, so I'm leaving it to a later time 02:51:26 <@Toprawa> I mean, we have giant tabs on most high-profile articles 02:51:26 <Omicron> admitidely, it's usually anons 02:51:32 <@Toprawa> Most people seem to get the gist 02:51:36 <@Toprawa> I'm not sure we need to explain it for people 02:51:43 <@ecks> Omicron, to be fair a ton of reverts are due to speculation and that's in the template too 02:51:45 <@Supreme_Emperor> We can revisit it later if need be. As EJ said, they probably aren't going to read it anyways 02:51:47 <@ecks> people really don't read 02:52:06 <@ecks> even if our welcome template was one big box that read "NO SPECULATION", people would STILL add speculation 02:52:08 <Omicron> yeah overall I like the template revision, this can be adressed later 02:52:15* @ecks nods 02:52:19 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote 02:52:23 <@Toprawa> ~open 02:52:23 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 02:52:27 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 02:52:27 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 02:52:28 <@ecks> ~support 02:52:27 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 02:52:27 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 02:52:27 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 02:52:28 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 02:52:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 02:52:28 <@Toprawa> ~support 02:52:28 <Boots> ~support 02:52:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 02:52:28 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 02:52:28 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 02:52:29 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 02:52:29 <@grunny> ~support 02:52:29 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 02:52:30 <Omicron> ~support 02:52:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted. 02:52:30 <Cwedin> ~support 02:52:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 02:52:31 <AV-6R7> ~support 02:52:31 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 02:52:32 <CorellianPremier> ~support 02:52:32 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 02:52:33 <@Culator> ~support 02:52:34 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 02:52:36 <Lewis> ~support 02:52:36 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 02:52:38 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 02:52:38 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 02:52:38 <@Imperators> ~support 02:52:38 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 02:52:42 <@exiledjedi> ~support 02:52:42 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 02:52:45 <@Toprawa> Vote closes in 10 02:52:55 <@Toprawa> ~close 02:52:55 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 02:52:56 <@Toprawa> ~tally 02:52:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 17 02:52:59 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 17-0 02:53:00 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 02:53:04* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 02:53:06 <@Toprawa> IMPERATORS 02:53:59 <@Imperators> OK. So, the Inq has a Redux procedure, and so does the AC. The EC needs one, too. 02:54:15 <@Imperators> For those who aren't familiar with it, 02:54:17 <@Imperators> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test2 02:54:18 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test2 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:54:50 <@Imperators> basically, if a Comprehensive article is significantly updated/changed, it enters Redux 02:55:03 <@Imperators> where ECs review the article 02:55:42 <@Imperators> the rules and mechanics: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test4 02:55:43 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test4 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:55:57 <@Imperators> the article template: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test3 02:55:58 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test3 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:56:36 <@Imperators> and a thing for archiving passed/failed Redux pages http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imperators_II/test5 02:56:37 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Imperators II/test5 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 02:57:37 <@Imperators> in the EC version of the process, all the review entries are listed on the single Redux page, and three EC votes are needed to pass, and only ECs can vote 02:58:16 <@Imperators> I've probably said it all. Ecks? 02:58:19* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 02:58:23 <@Toprawa> Quick question 02:58:43 <@Toprawa> Maybe it's in there, but I'm not really reading all that :P 02:58:47 <@Supreme_Emperor> I supported it before, and I support it now 02:58:56 <@Toprawa> Is there a specific number that constitutes a redux? 02:59:03 <@Toprawa> Like for FAN, I think we actually defined a number of bytes 02:59:06 <@Toprawa> Like 10,000 or something 02:59:15 <@Imperators> no, there isn't going to be for CAs. 02:59:31 <@Toprawa> What is your guideline, then, for a redux? Since CAs are so short 02:59:45 <@Imperators> we (as in the EC) reasoned most changes are going to be significant relative to the size of a CA 03:00:05 <CorellianPremier>  http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:EduCorps/Meeting_45/Log 03:00:06 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:EduCorps/Meeting 45/Log | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:00:10 <@Imperators> and sometimes an article can be significantly changed without the total bytesize increasing much 03:00:26 <@ecks> I'd be fine leaving it to EC discretion 03:00:31 <CorellianPremier> That was the discussion - an article-by-article basis 03:00:33 <@Toprawa> Yeah, I'm fine with that 03:00:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> Case by case was our best bet, imo 03:00:46 <@Toprawa> I'd imagine for CAs due to the length, it's basically if someone rewrites an article 03:01:32 <@Imperators> actually, sorry, I forgot to link the most recent example: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Thuna_system&diff=7323505&oldid=7250086 03:01:34 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Thuna system | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:01:44 <@Imperators> which basically influenced this proposal 03:01:56 <@Toprawa> Yeah, that's a pretty major expansion for a CA 03:02:16 <@Toprawa>  Ok, I presume we're all moderately familiar with the concept of redux, since it's been around for a while? 03:02:25 <@Toprawa> If not, speak up, ask questions 03:02:40 <@Toprawa> Otherwise, we will vote. 03:02:55 <@Toprawa> We're going to get out of here before the top of the hour 03:02:58 <@Toprawa> ~open 03:02:58 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 03:03:02 <@ecks> ~support 03:03:01 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 03:03:03 <Omicron> mak~support 03:03:03 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 03:03:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 03:03:03 <@Toprawa> ~support 03:03:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 03:03:04 <Cwedin> ~support 03:03:04 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 03:03:04 <@exiledjedi> ~support 03:03:05 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 03:03:06 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 03:03:06 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 03:03:06 <Boots> ~support 03:03:06 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 03:03:07 <@Culator> ~support 03:03:07 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 03:03:08 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 03:03:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 03:03:09 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 03:03:09 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 03:03:09 <@Imperators> ~support 03:03:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 03:03:10 <Lewis> ~support 03:03:10 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 03:03:14 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 03:03:14 <@Toprawa> Omicron, you should vote again 03:03:14 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 03:03:19 <CorellianPremier> ~support 03:03:19 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 03:03:25 <Omicron> ~support 03:03:25 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted. 03:03:33 <@Toprawa> Closing in 10 03:03:40 <@Toprawa> ~close 03:03:40 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 03:03:44 <@Toprawa> ~tally 03:03:45 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 03:03:46 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0 03:03:48 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 03:03:51 <@Toprawa>  IMPERATORS AGAIN 03:03:53* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 03:03:58 <@ecks> go go go 03:05:13 <@Imperators> OK, so this is simply a wish for consistency. Here, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Comprehensive_article_nominations, under How to nominate, item 8 states "Users may not vote on their own articles." 03:06:06 <@Imperators> Here, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Featured_article_nominations, item 7 under "How to vote" has "Per Inquisitorius consensus, no Inquisitor may use their Inqvote on their own nominations. " 03:06:22 <@Imperators> WP:GA has nothing of the sort. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Good_article_nominations 03:06:23 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Good article nominations | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:07:05 <@Imperators> I propose we uniform-ify this by changing/adding what WP:CAN says to both WP:FAN and WP:GAN 03:07:15 <@Imperators> i.e., no self-voting whatsoever. 03:07:56 <@Imperators> We recently had a precedent where a newbie GAN nominator self-voted, but fortunately removed their own vote. 03:08:11 <@Imperators> That's it. ecks 03:08:13* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 03:08:17 <@Toprawa> So I could have been non-Inqvoting on my own nominations this whole time? Why does no one tell us these things? 03:08:19 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes 03:08:22 <@GreenTentacle> I thought we did this years ago. 03:08:22 <@Imperators> Yes 03:08:25 <@ecks> You still have time 03:08:27 <Omicron> hah 03:08:30 <@ecks> time to get your votes in, folks 03:08:43 <Omicron> no ballot box stuffing! 03:08:46 <@Culator> Yeah, we should make the FAN rule consistent and make it mention regular and Inq votes. 03:08:55 <@ecks> Why is this under "How to nominate" and not under "how to vote"? 03:09:00 <@Supreme_Emperor> XD 03:09:25 <AV-6R7>  Knowing about this would’ve expedite things. 03:09:25 <@Imperators> maybe because you could tack your own vote on the nomination page when you're nominating the article? I dunno. 03:09:36 <@ecks> fair enough 03:10:00 <@ecks> ok, no objections from me here 03:10:06 <@Toprawa> Ok, this is straightforward 03:10:07 <@Toprawa> Let's vote 03:10:10 <@Toprawa> ~open 03:10:10 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 03:10:13 <@ecks> ~support 03:10:12 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 03:10:13 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 03:10:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 03:10:13 <@grunny> ~support 03:10:13 <Lewis> ~support 03:10:14 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 03:10:14 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 03:10:14 <AV-6R7> ~support 03:10:14 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 03:10:14 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 03:10:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 03:10:15 <Omicron> ~support 03:10:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Omicron: Support vote counted. 03:10:15 <@Toprawa> ~support 03:10:15 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 03:10:16 <@Imperators> ~support 03:10:17 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 03:10:17 <@exiledjedi> ~support 03:10:18 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 03:10:18 <Cwedin> ~support 03:10:18 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 03:10:19 <@Culator> ~support 03:10:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 03:10:25 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 03:10:25 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 03:10:31 <CorellianPremier> ~support 03:10:31 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 03:10:38 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 03:10:39 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 03:10:39 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 03:10:50 <Boots> ~support 03:10:50 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 03:10:50 <@Toprawa> ~close 03:10:50 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 03:10:52 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 03:10:53 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: There is no open vote on this channel. 03:10:56 <@Toprawa> ~tally 03:10:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16 03:11:00 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 16-0 03:11:01 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 03:11:03* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 03:11:06 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA 03:11:17 <@Toprawa> The following may bore Canon editors, but bear with us 03:11:22 <@Toprawa>  Who knows, this may affect you someday 03:11:54 <@Toprawa> Actually, let's backtrack 03:11:59 <@Toprawa> This is kind of a two-part vote actually 03:12:34 <@Toprawa> Now that we're doing Oasis by default for formatting, most of us should be aware that too many cascading items in infoboxes looks shitty 03:12:44 <@Toprawa> Particularly, this is in regards to the Affiliations field 03:13:03 <@Toprawa> If you go anywhere past two items, pretty much, you start to run out of space and stuff gets pushed onto another line 03:13:09 <@Toprawa> It just looks bad, and it's unnecessary 03:13:44 <@Toprawa> Waiting for loading... 03:13:54 <@Toprawa> I am proposing we add this to the infobox section of the LG: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 03:13:55 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:14:09 <@Toprawa> Note, the first part of that is already in the LG 03:14:15 <@Toprawa>  It's the Affiliations part that we're voting on 03:14:23 <@Toprawa>  Ok, let's talk 03:14:27 <@ecks> Zev Senesca is on fire tonight 03:14:28* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 03:14:43 <@Toprawa> We should be able to determine the two most critical affiliations for a character 03:14:45 <@Toprawa> Like: 03:14:47 <@Toprawa> *Galactic Empire 03:14:48 <AV-6R7> I’ve already started doing this. 03:14:49 <@ecks> OK, to clarify here: Does "a maximum of two cascading items" include the "top level bullet" 03:14:48 <@exiledjedi> So for affiliations, I assume we would list the most general and the most specific? 03:14:50 <@Toprawa> **Stormtrooper Corps 03:14:52 <@Toprawa> We don't need 03:14:53 <@Toprawa> *Galactic Empire 03:14:56 <@Toprawa> **Imperial Military 03:14:58 <@Toprawa> **Stromtrooper Corps 03:15:00 <@Toprawa> ***501st Legion 03:15:04 <Boots> Wrong 03:15:04 <@Toprawa> It's too much 03:15:05 <Lewis> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles?diff=7214129&oldid=7212650 is an example where it got out of hand 03:15:05 <Boots> Its 03:15:07 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wedge Antilles | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:15:12 <Boots> *Galactic Empire 03:15:15 <@Toprawa> One question at a time. 03:15:17 <Boots> **Imperial military 03:15:19 <@Toprawa> Let me try EJ first 03:15:21 <@Culator> jebus 03:15:22 <Boots> ***Imperial Army 03:15:29 <Boots> ****Stormtrooper Corps 03:15:35 <Boots> *****501st Legion 03:15:41 <Tommy-Macaroni> I do this so much but it's fair enough that it needs to stop 03:15:43 <@Toprawa> EJ> I think it would be up to individual articles at the discretion of the editors to determine the two most important 03:16:02 <@ecks> Toprawa, so this means just * and ** are allowed? or does "cascading item" mean "in addition to the first *"? 03:16:16 <Tyber> Wouldn't it be better to have it a bit more general? 03:16:17 <@Toprawa> ecks> It's intended to mean two bullet items. We can rephrase the proposal if need be 03:16:21 <Tyber> Like 03:16:23 <@Toprawa> *One 03:16:24 <@Toprawa> **Two 03:16:25 <@Toprawa> No more 03:16:28 <Tyber> *Galactic Empire 03:16:31 <Tyber> *New Republic 03:16:36 <@ecks> I'm thinking referring to them as sub-bullets or something might be better 03:16:45 <@Toprawa> Tyber> There is no proposed limit on that example 03:16:56 <@Toprawa> It's meant to be one cascading sub-bullet 03:16:56 <@Culator> Okay, so it should specify a maximum *depth* of two, then. 03:17:02 <@Toprawa> Ok, let me quickly rephrase this 03:17:05 <Tyber> Sure, sure. 03:17:15 <Tyber> But it would make it easier nonetheless. 03:17:29 <@GreenTentacle> I'm fine with limiting this. Some people do take it to extremes. Although I'm not quite sure why Oasis infoboxes need to use such large text. 03:17:35 <@ecks> also, Lewis, that Wedge thing is the greatest thing I've seen 03:17:51 <Boots> I think it will be important to standardize this. For example, one article on a stromtrooper could say *Galactic Empire **501st Legion while another article written by someone else could say *Imperial Military **501st Legion 03:18:07 <@ecks> the top item should always list the top-level affiliation, IMO 03:18:14 <Tommy-Macaroni> I agree 03:18:16 <@exiledjedi> Per ecks 03:18:21 <@GreenTentacle> Indeed 03:18:23 <@Ayrehead02> Definitely 03:18:28 <DarthRuiz30> yup 03:18:28 <Boots> Yes, I agree as well. 03:18:31 <@Supreme_Emperor> Makes sense 03:18:43 <Omicron> nod 03:18:50 <@ecks> but I don't really care if you want to go for GAR or Torrent Company or whatever for the sub-bullet 03:18:53 <@Toprawa> Does this work? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 03:18:54 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:19:01 <Boots> So should the second bullet always list the bottom-level affiliation? 03:19:19 <@Toprawa> I think it should list the two most primary 03:19:34 <Omicron> if we're doing two, top should be most general, bottom should be most specific 03:19:35 <@Toprawa> Things like Imperial Military and Stormtrooper Corps are not important if we know he's in the 501st Legion 03:19:41 <@GreenTentacle> Which would normally be the top and bottom ones. 03:19:48 <@Toprawa> per GT 03:19:54 <@GreenTentacle>  You can click links for the bits in between easily enough. 03:19:58 <Lewis> Makes sense 03:20:01 <Boots> Right, so it would be *Galactic Empire **501st Legion. 03:20:08 <Boots> But what if the soldier was in a company or unit? 03:20:10 <@ecks> sounds fine to me 03:20:14 <@Imperators> I'm a bit concerned we may limit ourselves a bit too much with this 03:20:15 <Boots> Would we list the unit instead of 501st? 03:20:18 <@Toprawa> Yes, Boots 03:20:27 <@ecks> I agree with Imperators, kinda 03:20:30 <@exiledjedi> I assume we can still have multiple sub-bullets under *Galactic Empire? 03:20:37 <@Toprawa> Yes, EJ 03:21:10 <Boots>  Wait, so we can have more than two sub-bullets? 03:21:13 <DarthRuiz30> so we could have multiple squadrons for a pilot ? 03:21:14 <@Imperators> of course, I completely agree with the aesthetic formatting reasoning, I'm just not sure if setting a hard number would be good 03:21:19 <Boots> I thought we were capping it at two. 03:21:26 <@ecks> Boots, in terms of depth it's capped 03:21:25 <@Toprawa> Boots 03:21:27 <@Toprawa> The depth 03:21:31 <@Toprawa> It can be: 03:21:34 <@Toprawa> *Galactic Empire 03:21:36 <@Toprawa> **ISB* 03:21:40 <@Toprawa> **501st Legion 03:22:10 <Boots> Well if we're doing that people will just list things in the same way as they are now but only use two bullets instead of one 03:22:19 <@ecks> no, not really 03:22:19 <Boots> Then it will just be confusing 03:22:22 <DarthRuiz30> then all good, concerns solved 03:22:26 <@Toprawa> No, because we will stop them 03:22:31 <@ecks> 501st is not in the same command structure as ISB 03:22:34 <@Toprawa> per ecks 03:22:41 <Boots> Right, I was speaking hypthetically. 03:22:45 <Boots> So 03:22:48 <@ecks> but Torrent Company is in the same command structure as 501st, so you can't list both of them 03:22:56 <Boots> *Galactic Empire 03:23:00 <Boots> **Imperial Military 03:23:05 <Boots> ***Stomrtrooper Corps 03:23:10 <Boots> ****501st Legion 03:23:16 <Boots> My fear is that people will do 03:23:18 <@Toprawa>  Becomes *Galactic Empire **501st Legion 03:23:20 <Boots> *Galactic Empire 03:23:24 <@Supreme_Emperor> You would essentially list the most relevant ones Boots 03:23:28 <Boots> **Imperial Military 03:23:31 <Boots> **Stormtrooper Corps 03:23:35 <Boots> **501st Legion 03:23:38 <@Toprawa> Maybe they will, Boots. But we will correct them with this policy. 03:23:43 <@ecks> Stormtrooper Corps is part of the Imperial Military 03:23:50 <@ecks> 501st Legion is part of the Imperial Military 03:23:55 <@ecks> can only list one of those 03:24:05 <@Toprawa> Place a little faith in our ability to properly apply things 03:24:07 <@ecks> ISB, however, is not, so you could list it 03:24:11 <Boots> We should specify that the top bullet should be the highest affiliation, and the bottom the lowest 03:24:23 <Omicron> I agree Boots 03:24:29 <@Imperators> okay, this is getting far too restricting imho 03:24:33 <Cwedin> I don't think we should specify that 03:24:35 <@Toprawa> I agree with Imperators 03:24:39 <@ecks> I agree with the top bullet, but I fear the bottom thing might come back to bite us 03:24:43 <@Toprawa> It's meant to be open so we can determine what best needs to be listed 03:24:47 <@Ayrehead02> I agreed it's too restricting 03:24:49 <@Toprawa> per ecks 03:24:55 <@Supreme_Emperor> We can just leave it at two bullets deep, and specify later as needed 03:25:02 <DarthRuiz30> for example currently http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles has 4 sub.bullets on rebel alliance, would that be allowed? 03:25:03 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wedge Antilles | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:25:11 <@Ayrehead02> What if there's something like Unit 2 within the 501st Legion 03:25:15 <@ecks> like what if we learned CT-1358 is part of fireteam 2, squad 3, platoon 4, torrent company? 03:25:17 <@Toprawa> Yes, Ruiz 03:25:21 <@Toprawa> Assuming those are all in correct order 03:25:24 <@ecks> are we gonna list *Galactic Republic **Fireteam 2? 03:25:27 <@ecks> that's ridiculous imo 03:25:36 <@grunny> yeah, I think it's important not to specify something like the most general and most specific (even if most of the time that's what it ends up being) so that we can use good judgement. "*Galactic Empire **501st Legion" is good, but "*Galactic Empire **Squad Six" probably isn't useful/meaningful for people reading the infobox 03:25:36 <@Ayrehead02> Having *Galactic Empire **Unit 2 is super vague 03:25:45 <@ecks> apply common sense to the sub-bullet 03:25:51 <@Toprawa> per grunny 03:25:54 <@Ayrehead02> Oh me an ecks were making the same point simultaneously 03:25:56 <@Culator> ... 03:25:59 <@Culator> common sense? 03:26:02 <@Culator> HAHAHAHAHAHA 03:26:04 <@ecks> great minds think alike etc 03:26:48 <Boots> So from what I'm taking away, sub-bullets are only to be listed like ** and ** if the individual is in mutliple groups under the same organization that are not a sub-unit of the sub-unit? 03:27:05 <@ecks> basically, yes 03:27:23 <@ecks> so 501st Legion, ISB, and the Imperial Cooking Club would all be acceptable sub-bullets 03:27:33 <@Toprawa> Are there any more questions on this? 03:27:43 <Boots> So about "Unit 2" 03:27:44 <@Culator> NOBODY SPEAK 03:27:49 <Boots> Would we list that or just 501st Legion 03:27:51 <@Toprawa> Boots, it's meant to be left to editor discretion 03:27:55 <@Toprawa> we don't need to figure these specifics out now 03:28:01 <@Toprawa> We can argue about this on nomination pages 03:28:05 <@Toprawa> That's what we do best :P 03:28:11 <Boots> Oh okay. Gotcha! 03:28:25 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote 03:28:30 <@Toprawa> ~open 03:28:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 03:28:32 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 03:28:32 <Cwedin> ~support 03:28:32 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 03:28:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 03:28:35 <AV-6R7> ~support 03:28:35 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 03:28:35 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 03:28:35 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 03:28:35 <@Toprawa> ~support 03:28:35 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 03:28:37 <@ecks> ~support 03:28:36 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 03:28:36 <@exiledjedi> ~support 03:28:36 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 03:28:37 <@Culator> ~support 03:28:37 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 03:28:37 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 03:28:37 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 03:28:38 <Boots> ~support 03:28:38 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 03:28:38 <@grunny> ~support 03:28:39 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 03:28:40 <CorellianPremier> ~support 03:28:40 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 03:28:43 <Lewis> ~support 03:28:43 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 03:28:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 03:28:44 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 03:28:46 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 03:28:46 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 03:28:52 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds 03:29:00 <@Toprawa> ~close 03:29:00 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 03:29:02 <@Toprawa> ~tally 03:29:02 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 03:29:04 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0 03:29:08 <@Toprawa> Ok, part 2 of this infobox thing 03:29:11 <@Toprawa> Going back to what I was saying 03:29:23 <@Toprawa> This might bore some of you Canon editors, but bear with us 03:29:30 <@Toprawa>  This may affect you someday in some similar fashion 03:30:06 <@Toprawa> In Legends articles, we've been very inconsistent as to when to list GrS dates in infoboxes, specifically character birth/death fields 03:30:07 <@Toprawa> Example: 03:30:13* Toprawa has changed the topic to " Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements FandoWe'This isre nm - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference IN PROGRESS - Off-topic chatter: #wookieepedia-social " 03:30:17 <@Toprawa> Oops 03:30:19 <@Toprawa> Ignore that 03:30:20 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cal_Omas?oldid=7370141 03:30:21 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Cal Omas | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:30:28 <@Toprawa> Died 03:30:28 <@Toprawa> 40 ABY (75), Coruscant[2] 03:30:34* ecks has changed the topic to " Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements Fandom - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference IN PROGRESS - Off-topic chatter: #wookieepedia-social " 03:30:38 <@Toprawa> The 75 is the GrS date (it's not linked properly) 03:30:54 <@Toprawa> There's no great advantage to listing that, since most people don't know what it means anyways 03:31:12 <@Toprawa> And worse, it's unsourced and just gives the reviewing bodies more reason to destroy your status article 03:31:24 <@Toprawa> So I'm proposing a system for when to list these GrS dates 03:31:58 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 03:31:59 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:32:03 <@Toprawa> We can fix any redlinks and formatting problems, btw 03:32:14 <@Toprawa> To give an example of this in a non-character article: 03:32:34 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Subjugation_of_Sinton does good to list it, since the specific month and day are known 03:32:35 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Subjugation of Sinton | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:32:46 <@Toprawa> Whereas http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Debacle_on_Ord_Torrenze has no reason to list GrS 03:32:47 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Debacle on Ord Torrenze | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:32:58 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's talk 03:33:09 <@ecks> Floor is open since I forgot to close it 03:33:13 <@Supreme_Emperor> lol 03:33:22 <@ecks> OK; do we require both GrS month *and* day to be known? 03:33:21 <@Culator> This is a good, smart, unambiguous rule and there's no reason to argue about it. So let's all argue. 03:33:24 <@Supreme_Emperor> Makes sense though 03:33:33 <@ecks> In your proposed rule, we know both month and day for Luke 03:33:46 <@GreenTentacle> Never been a fan of the GrS years anyway. This makes total sense. 03:34:05 <@Toprawa> ecks, I don't believe there's a single case where a GrS year and day but not month are known 03:34:18 <@ecks> fair enough 03:34:18 <@Toprawa> That was sort of meant to be understood in my policy, apologies for any confusion 03:34:39 <Boots> So, I'm not going to oppose anything in this discussion and this probably deserves its own discussion, but I really think the format should be changed. Putting the GrS date next to the BBY/ABY date I feel gives the wrong impression that the GrS and ABY/BBY calendar systems are the same, which they are not. 03:34:56 <@Toprawa> They are kind of the same 03:35:01 <@ecks> That's why the GrS date links to Great ReSynchronization 03:35:14 <@Toprawa> They're just different dating systems, but they're equally translatable 03:35:29 <@Toprawa> Every BBY/ABY date has a GrS year, and vice versa 03:35:49 <Boots> Right, of course. I just meant maybe bulleting them 03:36:17 <Boots> So we'd put the GrS date underneath the ABY/BBY dates and write GrS at the end of the 15:4:13 03:36:22 <@Toprawa> My inclination is to try and use as few infobox fields and sub-bullets as possible 03:36:26 <@ecks> I don't think that's necessary imo 03:36:31 <@ecks> especially since the date is linked 03:36:31 <@Toprawa> The longer an infobox, the uglier it looks 03:36:39 <@ecks> so anyone curious what that means can just click the link 03:36:42 <@GreenTentacle> I think it's fine on the same line. 03:37:11 <@Toprawa> And it's distinguished by the auto-parentheses in 03:37:23 <@Supreme_Emperor>  Same line is totally fine 03:37:25 <@Toprawa> And the smaller text 03:37:41 <Boots> Okay, again I'm not complaining or anything. Its just an observation I thought would look better. It might come in handy for canon since from what I can tell there's going to be a "Galactic Standard Time" and some new calendar systems that are different than legends. 03:38:02 <@ecks> this is a Legends-only amendment though 03:38:01 <@Imperators> Tope, what exactly would be wrong with the Sinton article if its GrS happened to only have the year known? 03:38:04 <@Toprawa> We can evaluate Canon scenarios when we come to them 03:38:07 <@ecks> we can decide on Canon later 03:38:17 <Boots> Also some canon articles are listing the Lothal Years, which I think look ugly. 03:38:20 <Boots> Of course. 03:38:22 <@Toprawa> It's not wrong, it's just unnecessary work 03:38:27-!- Omicron (~Omicron@wookieepedia/Omicron) has quit (Quit: I am out of here!) 03:38:31 <@Toprawa> GrS dates are a bitch and a half to reference 03:38:42 <@ecks> Including just the GrS year doesn't help the reader at all 03:38:43 <@Toprawa> Let's save ourselves the unnecessary effort 03:38:48 <@ecks> it's as specific as the BBY/ABY year 03:38:58 <@ecks> whereas months and days pinpoint the event further 03:39:26 <@Toprawa> ^ 03:39:30 <@Imperators> okay, I think ecks kind of answered my question 03:39:37 <@ecks> eckscellent 03:39:43 <@Toprawa> Anything else? 03:39:48 <@ecks> let's vote 03:39:52 <@Toprawa> ~open 03:39:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 03:39:55 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 03:39:57 <@ecks> ~support 03:39:55 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 03:39:56 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 03:39:57 <@grunny> ~support 03:39:57 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 03:39:57 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 03:39:57 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 03:39:58 <@exiledjedi> ~support 03:39:58 <@GreenTentacle> ~support 03:39:58 <@Toprawa> ~support 03:39:58 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 03:39:58 <@PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. 03:39:58 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 03:39:59 <Lewis> ~support 03:39:59 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 03:40:00 <CorellianPremier> ~support 03:40:00 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 03:40:01 <Boots> ~support 03:40:01 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 03:40:01 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 03:40:02 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 03:40:07 <@Imperators> ~support 03:40:07 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 03:40:08 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 03:40:08 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 03:40:09 <AV-6R7> ~support 03:40:09 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 03:40:09 <@Culator> ~support 03:40:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 03:40:24 <@Toprawa> Closing vote in 10 seconds 03:40:33 <@Toprawa> ~close 03:40:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 03:40:35 <@Toprawa> ~tally 03:40:35 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 03:40:38 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0 03:40:40 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 03:40:50 <@Toprawa>  JANGFETT 03:40:51 <@Toprawa> ISN'T HERE 03:40:56 <@Toprawa> But we will propose his proposal NONETHELESS 03:41:03 <@Toprawa> ecks, the shades 03:41:06* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 03:41:10 <@ecks> LIAM 03:41:11 <@Toprawa> XD 03:41:20 <@Toprawa>  WP:LG 03:41:22 <@Toprawa> "I've been noticing a careless use of the "" tag in plenty of CAs because we don't have an official guideline for it. Some place the tag at the very top of the article, at the bottom, or beside the actual infobox. I propose we set a standard for the tag following this Mofference by including a guideline for it in WP:LG. By following the layout guide, I believe the tag should be placed under the infobox, where the table of 03:41:22 <@Toprawa>  contents reside. 03:41:22 <@Toprawa>  " 03:41:26 <@Toprawa> Love & kisses, JangFett 03:41:29 <@Toprawa> Floor 03:41:30* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 03:41:40 <@ecks> do we even have a policy on when to use NOTOC in the first place? 03:41:49 <@Supreme_Emperor> Totally logical 03:41:52 <@Imperators> only precedent 03:41:55 <@ecks> the TOC doesn't reside under the infobox either 03:41:55 <@exiledjedi> Doesn't  mess up the formatting unless it is in a specific place? 03:41:57 <@ecks> it resides under the intro 03:42:01 <@ecks> it shouldn't 03:42:04 <Boots> What is NOTOC anyway? I keep seeing it in random articles and I don't know what to do with it. 03:42:11 <Lewis> No idea what it even is 03:42:14 <@ecks> it prevents the table of contens from showing up 03:42:16 <@exiledjedi>  It hides the table of contents. 03:42:20 <Boots> Ah 03:42:21 <@Supreme_Emperor>  It prevents a table of contents from generating 03:42:24 <@ecks> it's nice when the article only contains BTS, Appearances, Sources etc 03:42:32 <@ecks> which is how it's being used right now 03:42:48 <AV-6R7> NOTableOfContents 03:42:50 <Boots> So real-world articles, basically. 03:42:59 <@ecks> no, CAs mostly 03:43:00 <@exiledjedi> CAs mostly. 03:43:01 <Lewis> Makes sense 03:43:06 <@ecks> if you have four == == headers, a TOC is generated 03:43:11 <Boots> Hmm... Alright. 03:43:16 <@ecks> in most CAs, that's Bts, apps, sources, notes and references 03:43:26 <Cwedin> Ex: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Book_of_Hondo 03:43:28 <@ecks> but I honestly think we need a NOTOC policy 03:43:27 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Book of Hondo | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:43:37 <@ecks> when to use it, in particular 03:43:36 <@Ayrehead02> I've always put NOTOC directly below the eras template 03:43:44 <@ecks> I've been removing it from articles with IU sections 03:44:08 <@exiledjedi> I thought that adding  anywhere except above the infobox caused a blank line to get added. 03:44:16 <AV-6R7> I always put it under 03:44:18 <@Ayrehead02> And I think EJ's right, I swear I remember it messing up layout on something 03:44:32 <DarthRuiz30> yeah I remember something like that 03:44:33 <AV-6R7> Adds and extra space, I think 03:44:37 <@ecks> very possible 03:45:02 <@Toprawa> Ok 03:45:12 <@Toprawa>  We're tabling NOTOC for a larger discussion 03:45:16 <@Toprawa> Recommended to take to the SH 03:45:25 <@Ayrehead02>  Cool 03:45:27 <@Toprawa> There's no clear proposal here due to the large level of disagreement 03:45:29 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 03:45:37 <@Toprawa>  TOPRAWA 03:45:39* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 03:46:14 <@Toprawa> I am proposing modifying our activity requirements for administrators. 03:46:24* @ecks trembles 03:46:28 <@Toprawa> Currently, admins need to make at least 50 mainspace edits in any six-month span to maintain their sysops 03:46:44 <@Toprawa> Everyone pretty much agreed at the time we passed that number that 50 was pathetically small 03:47:01 <@Toprawa> But it was something we all kind of settled on because there were many people once upon a time who were ardently against any activity requirements 03:47:16 <@Toprawa> Perhaps not coincidentally, those people are no longer around 03:47:24 <@Toprawa> I am proposing the following: 03:47:37 <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca 03:47:39 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Toprawa and Ralltiir/Zev Senesca | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:47:51 <@Toprawa> Note, this will follow this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:A#Extended_leaves_of_absence 03:47:52 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Administrators | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 03:48:01 <@Toprawa> 250 and 500 may seem like really large numbers, but they're not 03:48:21 <@Toprawa> In a six-month span, that's approximately 1.4 edits per day for admins and 2.8 edits per day for bureaucrats 03:48:43 <@Toprawa> If you can't average slightly less than 1.5 edits per day being an admin, your priorities are in the wrong place 03:49:08 <@Toprawa> Moreover, our BCs should be among the most active and influential members of our community 03:49:13 <@Toprawa> That's why they have a higher figure 03:49:22 <@Toprawa> And again, just under 3 edits per day is like nothing 03:49:44 <@Toprawa> We three BCs, and any future members of our ranks, should be able to meet this threshold without problem 03:49:57 <@Toprawa> If not, we need to re-evaluate ourselves 03:50:02 <@Toprawa> Let's talk 03:50:03* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 03:50:05 <@Supreme_Emperor> 250 and 500 are not huge numbers in all honesty, especially considering our regularly active users hit well over 100 edits per week, on average 03:50:15 <@ecks> Lewis hits 100 every 30 minutes 03:50:16 <@Supreme_Emperor> In some cases well over 300, 400 or 500 03:50:18 <@Imperators> :D 03:50:27 <@Ayrehead02> Given that Lewisr makes 250 edits per minute on average I don't see why the rest of us can't up our game 03:50:31 <@Culator> I assume there's going to be a grace period on this, and that we're not going to make it retroactive in order to have our own little Night of the Long Knives for admins. 03:50:33 <@Supreme_Emperor> Also looking at it from a numbers standpoint, regularly active users are easily hitting that many edits in a single week, let alone 6 months 03:50:40 <@ecks> I argue Wookieepedia:, Template: and MediaWiki: edits should count towards the total 03:50:40 <@grunny> looks good, I particularly like the clarity on "prior explanation of inactivity" as that was always quite vague 03:50:44 <@Supreme_Emperor> Even looking at it from a different point of view, admins need to know what's going on. 50 edits in 6 months means they really aren't paying attention 03:50:51 <@Toprawa> Culator, yes, no one is going to cut off any heads tomorrow 03:51:07 <@Supreme_Emperor> I mean most nights when I backtrack through the RC's I can easily find one or two nonsense edits and a whole host of other minor issues 03:51:23 <Boots> So, my only fear is that the numbers of admins and bureaucrats are so low that raising the requirements will reduce the number even further. 03:51:35 <@ecks> is losing inactive admins really a loss? 03:51:38 <@Supreme_Emperor> If it does, we replace them with those who edit regularly 03:51:49 <DarthRuiz30> also most admins are active, I think 03:51:56 <@Toprawa> Our practice for admins has always been to nominate new ones when the number of admins is considered insufficient 03:51:56 <@Supreme_Emperor> An admin/BC needs to be aware of what is happening on the site regularly 03:52:02 <@Toprawa> If we lose admins, we nominate new ones 03:52:08 <@Toprawa> It's really that simple 03:52:14 <@Toprawa> At present, we have three admins who don't meet this figure 03:52:21 <@Toprawa> I'm not calling out any names 03:52:32 <@Toprawa> But I think they know who they are 03:52:34 <@Culator>  <-- 03:52:38 <@ecks> ok, since everyone missed it... <@ecks> I argue Wookieepedia:, Template: and MediaWiki: edits should count towards the total 03:52:39 <@Toprawa> And if they want to be admins, I think they can pick it up 03:52:43 <@Toprawa>  want to remain admins* 03:53:02 <@grunny> ecks: I'd consider those "use of admin tools" rather than counting towards mainspace edits 03:53:13 <@grunny> at least for MW edits 03:53:44 <@ecks> fair enough, but just like we amended WP:RFA to be "major wiki contribution" instead of "major article contribution", I think the same goes here 03:53:53 <@ecks> mainspace isn't everything 03:54:01 <Boots> Okay, well if all the admins are in agreement I won't challenge the proposal. I just don't want to push something through that will negatively affect users. 03:54:15 <@ecks> my edits are something like 1/3 mainspace; if I were a bureaucrat, I'd need 1500 edits every six months, assuming my normal editing pattern 03:54:33 <@Supreme_Emperor> I can guarantee it wouldn't Boots 03:54:46 <DarthRuiz30> I don't think its negative, if they are not active how are they useful 03:54:53 <@Toprawa> Sorry, ecks, I'm confused 03:55:03 <@Toprawa> "if I were a bureaucrat, I'd need 1500 edits every six months, assuming my normal editing pattern" 03:55:09 <@Toprawa> How do you figure 1500? 03:55:30 <@ecks> because only 33% of my edits are mainspace. if I make 1,500 edits right now, around 500 of those would be mainspace, assuming the same editing pattern 03:55:35 <@Supreme_Emperor> He means because a chunk of his edits are Wookieepedia, Template and Mediawiki edits 03:55:59 <@ecks> yeah, I'm not much of a writer and I do a lot of technical tweaking and I don't think that's less valuable than mainspace editing 03:56:18 <@Supreme_Emperor> I would agree with that 03:56:30 <Boots> I agree. 03:56:53 <@Toprawa> I mean, not to pick on you, ecks, but maybe that's not a bad thing 03:57:03 <@Toprawa> If you were to be a BC, maybe you should be editing more mainspace 03:57:14 <@ecks> should I? 03:57:19 <@grunny> should we specify the grace period to get up to the threshold for existing admins? Just so it's not arbitrarily applied later 03:57:29 <@Toprawa> I would argue in general that doing so would mean being more involved with the community than you otherwise would be 03:57:31 <@ecks> 6 months for the grace period 03:57:45 <@Toprawa> I say make it 6 months from tonight 03:58:08 <@Culator> I actually have to agree with ecks on this. Keeping the wiki running is as important as keeping the community running. 03:58:39 <Boots> Everyone has their specialties. We shouldn't say that one form of wiki editing is more valuable and counted than the other. 03:58:50 <@Toprawa> Well, it kind of is 03:58:54 <@Toprawa>  Not that ecks doesn't have a point 03:59:01 <@Toprawa> But not everything in Wookieepedia: is vital 03:59:03 <@ecks> if anything, bureaucrats should have a required amount of Forum: and Wookieepedia: edits 03:59:24 <@grunny> OK, sounds good, so, basically, for the record, "As of March 4, 2018, admins are required to maintain  <insert summary of the policy here> in any six month span going forward." Which also clarifies Culator's point of making sure it's not retroactive 04:00:48 <@grunny> I think the policy is good since it ensures admins are focused on the main aims of the wiki, which is encyclopedic content, but we could consider expanding it a little to include other forms of contribution 04:00:49 <Boots> "As of March 4, 2018, admins are required to maintain  <insert summary of the policy here> in any six month span. A temporary grace period of six months from the date of this policy's passing on March 4, 2018, will be provided." 04:01:14 <@grunny> I don't think we need to specify the grace period as long as we say from this date forward 04:01:25 <@grunny> it does the same thing 04:01:26 <Boots> Legal limbo. 04:01:35 <@Ayrehead02> Wait so this couldn't be implemented for twelve months? 04:01:45 <@grunny> 6 months 04:02:05 <@Ayrehead02> I thought that was the grace period? 04:02:21 <@grunny> if six months from today you don't have 250/500 mainspace edits, you're considered in breach 04:02:30 <Boots> This is why I wanted to add the legal limbo. 04:02:36 <@Toprawa> Ok, people 04:02:41 <Boots> More specific and clear. 04:02:43 <@Toprawa> Revised proposal on the numbers: 04:03:12 <@Toprawa> (And please don't interrupt for a moment) 04:03:18* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 04:03:56 <@Toprawa> *Admins and BCs must make 250 mainspace edits in any six-month span 04:04:38 <@Toprawa> *BCs must make 500 edits total, including Wookieepedia: Template: and MediaWiki: 04:04:43 <@Toprawa> Sorry for the delay 04:04:46 <@Toprawa> Is that right, ecks? 04:04:51 <@ecks> correct 04:04:53* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 04:04:54 <@Toprawa> Note: 04:05:00 <@Toprawa> Those are all non-deleted edits 04:05:03 <@Toprawa> Deleted edits don't count 04:05:15 <@Toprawa> Talk :P 04:05:18 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes 04:05:20 <Boots> Hold on, let me write this up. 04:05:23 <@grunny> sounds good 04:05:35 <@ecks> this I can get behind 04:06:02 <DarthRuiz30> if admins and BCs agree then we're good 04:06:08 <@ecks> any objections or can we put it to a vote? 04:06:11 <@Toprawa> Let's vote 04:06:13 <@Toprawa> ~open 04:06:13 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 04:06:17 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 04:06:17 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 04:06:18 <CorellianPremier> ~support 04:06:18 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 04:06:19 <@ecks> ~support 04:06:18 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 04:06:18 <@Toprawa> ~support 04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 04:06:19 <@exiledjedi> ~support 04:06:19 <Lewis> ~support 04:06:19 <@Ayrehead02> Wait Boots just asked 04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 04:06:19 <@Culator> ~support 04:06:19 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 04:06:21 <AV-6R7> ~support 04:06:21 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 04:06:23 <@grunny> ~support 04:06:23 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 04:06:24 <Cwedin> ~support 04:06:24 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 04:06:25 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 04:06:25 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 04:06:29 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 04:06:29 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 04:06:30 <Boots> ~support 04:06:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 04:06:31 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 04:06:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 04:06:33 <@Imperators> ~support 04:06:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 04:06:43 <@Toprawa> Closing in 10 seconds 04:06:50 <@Toprawa> ~close 04:06:51 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 04:06:52 <@Toprawa> ~tally 04:06:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 04:06:54 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0 04:06:56 <@grunny> and once again for the minutes, this is from this date onwards (six month spans prior to this date were under the old policy), with a six month grace period for anyone currently not active enough 04:07:02 <@Toprawa> Yes 04:07:04 <@Toprawa> Thanks, grunny 04:07:13 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 04:07:17* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia +m] 04:07:18 <@Toprawa> ECKS 04:07:29 <@ecks> deletion policy rewrite 04:07:37 <@ecks> current: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:DP 04:07:37 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Wookieepedia:Deletion policy | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 04:07:42 <@ecks> Proposed: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test4 04:07:42 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test4 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 04:07:47 <@ecks> Diff: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3AXd1358%2Ftest4&diff=7459029&oldid=7427307 04:07:47 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: User:Xd1358/test4 | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 04:07:54 <@ecks> thanks to Toprawa for the help on this one 04:08:13 <@ecks> basically, the current policy is outdated and this one formalizes what we're doing already 04:08:14* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 04:08:17 <@ecks> floor is open 04:08:20 <@Supreme_Emperor> Yes 04:08:26 <@Toprawa> It's just kind of streamlining everything 04:08:29 <@Imperators> aw, crap, this is actually important stuff. 04:08:36 <@Toprawa> Our current Deletion policy page is 2006 garbage 04:09:15 <@Toprawa> The current policy actually technically forbids us from CSDing anything 04:09:18 <@Toprawa> Which is insane 04:09:23 <DarthRuiz30> looks pretty good 04:09:26 <@Toprawa> It says everything has to be put up for a vote 04:09:34 <@Toprawa> No one's got time for that 04:09:53 <@ecks> every admin thus far has been WP:AA'ing the shit out of nonsense pages 04:10:08 <@Culator> And that's... bad? 04:10:17 <@Toprawa> No, that's policy now :P 04:10:20 <@Toprawa> Or will be, hopefully :P 04:10:26 <@ecks> is "thus far" even a phrase? It's 4:10 am and my English is getting poorer by the minute 04:10:35 <@Supreme_Emperor> It is 04:10:36 <@Toprawa>  Yes :P 04:10:49 <@Toprawa> If anyone needs a few minutes to read through the page, please say so 04:10:59 <CorellianPremier>  No it looks good 04:11:19 <Boots> Looks good to me. 04:11:20 <Lewis> Happy with it 04:11:21 <@Imperators>  finally, everything under Notability policy, explicitly 04:11:34 <Tommy-Macaroni> All good! 04:11:42 <@ecks> \o/ 04:11:44 <@exiledjedi> Looks good to me. 04:11:45 <@Ayrehead02> No issues here 04:11:48 <@grunny> looks good 04:11:51 <@Toprawa> Let's vote 04:11:53 <@Toprawa> ~open 04:11:53 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 04:11:54 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 04:11:55 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 04:11:56 <@Toprawa> ~support 04:11:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 04:11:56 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 04:11:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 04:11:57 <@Culator> ~support 04:11:57 <Boots> ~support 04:11:57 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 04:11:57 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 04:11:57 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 04:11:57 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 04:11:57 <@exiledjedi> ~support 04:11:57 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 04:11:58 <AV-6R7> ~support 04:11:59 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 04:12:03 <@ecks> ~support 04:12:02 <@PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. 04:12:02 <Cwedin> ~support 04:12:02 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 04:12:02 <@grunny> ~support 04:12:02 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 04:12:03 <Lewis> ~support 04:12:04 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 04:12:06 <CorellianPremier> ~supporat 04:12:09 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 04:12:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 04:12:09 <CorellianPremier> ~support 04:12:09 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 04:12:17 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds 04:12:21 <@Imperators> ~support 04:12:21 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 04:12:31 <@Toprawa> ~close 04:12:31 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 04:12:33 <@Toprawa> ~tally 04:12:33 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 04:12:36 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 15-0 04:12:37 <@Toprawa> MOVING ON 04:12:38 <@Toprawa>  LAST ONE 04:12:40 <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA 04:14:36* ecks sets modes [#wookieepedia -m] 04:14:48 <@Ayrehead02> Burn all the merch to the ground 04:14:48 <CorellianPremier> So things like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aratech_Military_Speeder_Bike_Prototype 04:14:49 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Aratech Military Speeder Bike Prototype | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 04:14:54 <CorellianPremier> would still be considered IU? 04:14:55 <@Imperators> dat Star Wars Chess tho 04:15:00 <@Toprawa> Yes, those are IU, CP 04:15:03 <@Toprawa>  Those have canonical value 04:15:10 <@Toprawa> Leland Chee said Legends toys are IU 04:15:14 <@Toprawa>  I don't know what the deal is with Canon 04:15:22 <Boots> Half-and-half. 04:15:54 <Boots> Mickey Mouse Jedi Action Figure is obviously not canon, for example. 04:16:07 <@Toprawa> Yes, but they have non-canon canonical value, if that makes sense 04:16:07 <DarthRuiz30> So this could be tagged with Delete? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Uncle_Milton:_Star_Wars_Science_%E2%80%93_Jabba_Slime_Lab 04:16:08 <@Nuku-Nuku> Title: Uncle Milton: Star Wars Science – Jabba Slime Lab | Wookieepedia | FANDOM powered by Wikia (at starwars.wikia.com) 04:16:10 <@Ayrehead02> I'm sure that one day it'll come up in a status article and we'll all fight over it, but at the moment we don't need to think about it 04:16:11 <@Toprawa>  Mickey isn't merchandise 04:16:19 <@Toprawa> Yes, Ruiz 04:16:26 <@Toprawa> Those articles are actually what inspired this proposal 04:16:34 <Lewis> The mouse owns it all 04:16:35 <DarthRuiz30> nice, then all good 04:16:42 <Boots> My question though 04:16:51 <Boots> Why did we delete the Family Guy Blue Harvest article? 04:17:00 <Boots> Was that considered merchandise or what? 04:17:07 <@Toprawa> That's not really germane to this discussion 04:17:13 <@Toprawa> That has more to do with Notability of fan projects 04:17:19 <Boots> Ah, okay. 04:17:20 <@Ayrehead02> Please Boots, us poor Europeans need to sleep 04:17:32 <@Toprawa> Merchandise is like... Star Wars Beanie Babies 04:17:33 <Boots> Haha, sorry! 04:17:46 <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote 04:17:51 <@Toprawa> Some people are on like 4 AM 04:17:52 <@Toprawa>  ~open 04:17:52 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. 04:17:54 <CorellianPremier> ~support 04:17:54 <@PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. 04:17:55 <@exiledjedi> ~support 04:17:55 <@PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. 04:17:55 <Tommy-Macaroni> ~support 04:17:55 <DarthRuiz30> ~support 04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> DarthRuiz30: Support vote counted. 04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Tommy-Macaroni: Support vote counted. 04:17:56 <@Toprawa> ~support 04:17:56 <@Ayrehead02> ~support 04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. 04:17:56 <@PurpleTentacle> Ayrehead02: Support vote counted. 04:17:57 <@grunny> ~support 04:17:57 <@PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. 04:17:58 <Lewis> ~support 04:17:58 <@PurpleTentacle> Lewis: Support vote counted. 04:18:00 <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support 04:18:00 <@Culator> ~support 04:18:00 <@PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. 04:18:00 <@PurpleTentacle> Culator: Support vote counted. 04:18:02 <@Imperators> ~support 04:18:02 <@PurpleTentacle> Imperators: Support vote counted. 04:18:03 <Cwedin> ~support 04:18:03 <@PurpleTentacle> Cwedin: Support vote counted. 04:18:09 <Boots> ~support 04:18:09 <@PurpleTentacle> Boots: Support vote counted. 04:18:15 <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds 04:18:16 <AV-6R7> ~support 04:18:16 <@PurpleTentacle> AV-6R7: Support vote counted. 04:18:27 <@Toprawa> ~close 04:18:27 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. 04:18:30 <@Toprawa> ~tally 04:18:30 <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 14 04:18:33 <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 14-0 04:18:34 <@Toprawa> That's it 04:18:36 <@Toprawa>  Mofference is over 04:18:43 <@Toprawa> Thank you to everyone who showed up