Talk:Anakin Skywalker/Legends


 * Archives: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
 * Darth Vader archives: 1 2

Second Infobox Maybe?
With the Vader/Anakin article merging, maybe there should be a separate infobox for Darth Vader? Also, I was thinking about replacing the main image with this one instead:



It just seems to fit, but that's just me. MaxPayne21 "Max-Tex" 22:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with you about the seperate infobox. Also the pic rocks! Rayman 01:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Without a doubt, Darth Vader should definitely be made into a separate article. JediSeven
 * Should I put it there? Rayman 05:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No. The image is of poor quality, and won't be accepted. 08:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

New Addition
Someone has added "Anakin died from Sidious's force lightning, which short-circuted the apparatus that gives him oxygen to breathe. Then Luke removed the helmet, and unknowingly, Anakin died because of that." Is this confirmed anywhere or is it merely speculation by a user? SSupa 21:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say speculation. Remember, Vader said, after Luke told him that he would die, "...nothing can stop that now." He was already about to die, as his systems were short circuted. The fact that Luke took his mask off is irrelavant. --Avian Starr 22:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

destruction orb
in the destruction orb article it states that vader could use this ability. Does anyone think this should be mentioned in the talents section of this article. 69.23.65.113 02:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Needs to be sourced first. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Splinter of the Mind's Eye. In the book, it's a destruction orb, but for some reason, those brain-boxes at Dark Horse made it lightning. .  .  .  .  07:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe He found a way to channel Destruction Orb to make it look like a lightning attack. There is a image of Darth Bane doing a similar thing but im not sure weather it is Destruction Orb or just force lightning. But Im still just speculating. 24.208.43.203 23:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Cin Draillg
Maybe it is just me, but does anyone else ponder how Darth vader killed Cin. I mean he is all powerful. But Cin was suppose to be on the level of yoda and Mace or close to it. It was said that he surpass all, but the two. So could Vader win? Cin was either as strong or stronger the Obi, but some how lost to a lesser experince Knight. Gorege even said the main reason why Vader won was because of experince. SO how did he win is the question. I think personaly that Lucas wanted Vader to seem stringer then he really was and that Cin was a stepping stone Vader could not even beat Obi. So how coul he defeat Cin
 * First af all, could you please work on your grammer. Secondly, Vader was emersed in hatred for the Jedi/himself at the time and was determined to make people suffer for it. PLus the fact that Vader/Skywalker has just spent the last three years fighting a war across the entire galaxy, he has gained alot of experience. For all we know, Cin Drallig spent the entire war inside the Temple on Coruscant. But either way, Vader won. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Grammar. .  .  .  .  09:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, here's an answer to the original question of "how Darth vader killed Cin": with a lightsaber. ;) Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's "er". [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 17:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You sure? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Dictionaries are your friends. Also, this debate has been posted on Talk:Cin Drallig - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 19:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I knew it was "ar". Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my Microsoft Word didn't register the word as incorrect for some reason :-s. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't worry; mine doesn't either. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Anakin killed Cin. There's no reason complaining about it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Nebulax. Cin Drallig lost against Anakin. It's a fact, as seen on Episode III. Now, there can be multiple reasons for that: There is a LOT of valid reasons to have Anakin win against Cin Drallig, while losing against Obi Wan. Perhaps in a "Dojo-like" training duel, Cin would have won. But this was a dirty fight, within a battlefield, so this was not a training duel. Note that no one saw the whole fight in Episode III, so we can only assume the fight against Cin Drallig must have been very tough. But in the end Anakin won. I can be wrong, unless one have more arguments than "(Cin > Obi) and (Obi > Ani) => Cin > Ani", then there is not point in discussing this fact anymore. Paercebal 10:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Anakin was the Chosen one (prophecy = Deus Ex Maquina)
 * Anakin was really powerful, and his power could compensate experience
 * Anakin fought in the Clone Wars, and apparently, his feats were such he was considered a hero. He even had duels against multiple Dark Jedi if we are to believe the Expanded Universe. Obi Wan Kenobi was master of a Lightsabre Form that increased his protection (which enabled him to fight and win against the four lightsabres of Grievous, when other masters lost the same fight). While Cin Dralling was a weapon master, we do not know about his experience in true, "dirty" combat.
 * Perhaps Obi Wan's acute mastery of Form III against Anakin's use of Form V was, perhaps, more helpful than Cin Drallig's more general mastery of all forms.
 * Anakin was "winning" as his troops were invading the temple, and Cin was loosing, as padawans and younglings were dying around him. This could boost Anakin's morale and anihilate Cin's. And, when two masters fight one against the other, the mental and the moral becomes very important as their overall abilities match.
 * Anakin was exhausted by the fights (the Jedi Temple + Mustaphar), perhaps more than Obi Wan who had time to rest after fleeing Utapau.
 * Anakin had no choice, but prove himself to Palpatine, and give himself to the Dark Side, and thus, would not consider the fight in the Temple won from the beginning. To the contrary, in his fight against Obi Wan, he was arrogant, as he had been before in hits fight against against Dooku on Geonosis. This arrogance made him try dangerous moves and lose some body mass (as he did against Dooku).
 * First of all there wasn't anything saying Cin had that much force ability, and just because he knew most of the forms doesn't mean he was good at using them, he could be like me know a ton about sword fighting but isn't good at using it in a fight. Vader could of just force choked him. Derek Yoda&#39;s friend 02:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Paercebal. Anakin was most definitely more powerful than Cin Drallig, and he had the entire 501st to back him up. Also, despite his skill with the lightsaber, it is doubtful that Cin Drallig could have defeated Obi-Wan or held up against Anakin as well as Kenobi. Despite the fact that Drallig was skilled in all the lightsaber forms, Kenobi was recognized by Mace Windu as the master of Soresu, and was more concentrated on it than Drallig. Also, Obi-Wan knew Anakin's style from years of training, and could anticipate his moves, making for a much more even match than the Anakin vs. Drallig duel.Hobbes15
 * Obi-Wan has just spent the last thirteen years fighting alongside Anakin, so he's gonna know what he's capable off. Also, Cin Drallig was over-ocnfident as proven by his quote "There is one thing you have yet to learn, how to become one with the Force".

Vader slew Cin Dralling due to his skill with the lightsaber, and Drallig's over-confident recklessness, Obi-Wan however knew that there was a good chance Vader could win the duel and so fought to survive, as well as win. Sith Council Sith Campaign 17:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Vader's body dematerialises? According to what?
Hi there folks, Longtime reader, first-time user, so please be gentle! Maybe this has been covered before (I know I've certainly had heated discussions with people about it), but it doesn't seem to be listed as a past talking point here so I thought I'd raise it:

Is there any canonical evidence that Vader's body vanishes upon death, ala Kenobi and Yoda, and that therefore all Luke cremates is his armour & prosthetics? This article asserts the notion as though it is canon, but I've never seen any credible source that confirms this.

Indeed, it seems to fly in the face of common sense. Ben and Yoda dissolved immediately upon death, whereas Vader/redeemed Annie clearly dies on-camera and yet his very solid body remains in frame for the remainder of the scene, which is several long seconds. There is certainly no indication in ROTJ itself that his body is supposed to have vanished, which would be a very odd omission if it was intended (always a dangerous word around these parts, I know!) to be the case. Furthermore, it's not as though becoming one with the Force/a Force Ghost without one's body disappearing is unprecedented; Qui-Gon's body didn't dematerialise either.

So, without wanting to get into any arguments with people, could anyone please simply source this assertion? Because if there's no canon source, I think it shouldn't be included in the article as though it were canon. Thanks, -Freddie T.
 * First of all, Qui-Gon didn't become a Force ghost. Second, I don't see any law indicating how much time is taken between one's death and their body vanishing. Obi-Wan died and vanished at the same time; Yoda died, then seconds later his body vanished. There could have been minutes between Anakin/Vader's death and vanish into the Force, assuming his body did indeed vanish. But the fact is that Anakin was, upon his death, the Jedi Master&mdash;he fulfilled his role as the Chosen One, despite have been mortally wounded by Palpatine&mdash;and it's probable that he had spent a lot of time trying to figure how to achieve the "vanishing body" trick after Kenobi's death. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks; that's all very well, but I reiterate my question; is there any canonical source that actually indicates that his body did, in fact, dematerialise before Luke cremated him? (Furthermore, if only his bionics were left, wouldn't his body look like a deflated bag on the funeral pyre, since we know most of his chest was still organic?). And how is Qui-Gon not a Force Ghost? Isn't that the definition of your consciousness surviving the Force beyond the death of the physical body? Is a lack of (onscreen) visual appearance enough to declare him NOT a fore ghost? But my main question is the first one; evidence for Vader's body dissolving. Thanks, -Freddie T.
 * 1) I don't have a source for this. 2) Some armor doesn't just cave in on itself when it's not being worn. Anything regarding the armor is not evidence. 3) Qui-Gon was never shown as a Force ghost; therefore, he wasn't. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 01:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In Dark Rendezvous, Qui-Gon comes to Yoda and communicates with him, insinuating that he is indeed, a force ghost.-- Dooku (Solar Sailer)[[Image:Huppla Pasa Tisc.jpg|17px]] 01:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a quote? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 01:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "...and then Qui-Gon was beside him...waiting for Yoda to find his way down the untaken path...to the heart of things. Yoda opened his eyes. Qui-Gon's feel in the force was the same as always: stern and energetic. 'Become like a wave he has...a wave without a shore.'...'He is a fencer,' Qui-Gon agreed. pg. 51 Yoda: Dark Rendezvous. It goes on like that for the next half of the page, and then "Qui-Gon shivered, and was gone." (pg. 52).-- Dooku (Solar Sailer)[[Image:Huppla Pasa Tisc.jpg|17px]] 01:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, then strike number three. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 01:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought you wanted me to strike it?-- Dooku (Solar Sailer)[[Image:Huppla Pasa Tisc.jpg|17px]] 01:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If I really had wanted that done, I could have done it myself. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 01:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point.-- Dooku (Solar Sailer)[[Image:Huppla Pasa Tisc.jpg|17px]] 01:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In any case, I'll look for a source. I have a feeling that the RotJ novel might be the source, though. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 01:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've heard that his armor disappears - I think in a Lucas interview. Fat lot of good that does us here, though... Cutch 03:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Armor disappears?" I don't think that's quite possible - Kyp Durron visits the pyre in Dark Apprentice, and, while it is scorched and melted almost beyond recognition, there is a few "heat-warped pieces of armor", meaning it couldn't disappear. 03:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's from . - Lord Hydronium 03:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Specifically: "He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night. " 03:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that's good. It saved me some time. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 12:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. So; is that it? That sole Databank entry is considered enough to rule Vader's UNDEPICTED body-vanish as canonical? I'm not arguing per se; if those are the strict rules here at Wook then there's not much point in me arguing the toss, but it seems pretty thin to me. I think if Lucas intended (oooh, the "i" word!) for Vader's body to vanish, he would have done so at the time, as he did with Yoda in the same film. And if it's a retcon he approved of, he could've easily made Vader's exposed head vanish in either of the Special Edition "updates" (while he already at work enthusiastically erasing eyebrows). Plus I still don't see how you can say that Qui-Gon (who also didn't disappear) isn't a Force Ghost. He talks to Yoda several times post-mortem; what does it matter if he doesn't materialise in spectral form? If anyone can (politely) explain this to me, I'd appreciate it. -Freddie T.
 * No, we take what the Databanks say as canon isbecause it's a source, and the best source at that. Skywalker became a Force Ghost, end of. And with regards to not actually apperaing, per se, in the EU. not all Force Ghosts have to physically show themselves. Anakin just chooses not to for the moment. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Two things, Freddie: 1) Anakin's body vanished and became a Force ghost, as Jasca already said. Don't argue against canon. 2) In case you haven't noticed, I've been proven wrong on Qui-Gon not becoming a Force ghost. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 12:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, cheers. Sith Council is actually misunderstanding/misparaphrasing some of the nuances of what I actually said/asked, but the overall message is clear: if Databank says it, it's Holy Writ as far as Wook is concerned. That's cool; I'll just go about personally believing my own "common-sense fanon" version which gives superior credence the actual film and ignores isolated discrepancies in online secondary sources. But as far as debating the Wook entry, no further argument from me. Thanks guys, -Freddie T.
 * Actually, my name is Jasca Ducato/Darth Abeonis. Not "Sith Council". [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that Jasca; the result of a badly-executed cut & paste, it seems. Didn't mean to offend your sensibilities. -Freddie T.
 * A new element perhaps. George Lucas state against the databank entry in the ROTJ 2004 DVD commentary. He indicate that it's Obi-Wan and Yoda who help Anakin to become a force-ghost and he precise that the body of Anakin was still in the armor when Luke burn it. Check it out ! Guiguioh 10:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, who says a Jedi's body has to vanish when they become "immortal" as Yoda put it. I mean, Qui-Gon's body didn't disappear but he managed to become a Force Ghost, so, if Anakin's body was still in the armour, then he could quite easily have just left his body behind. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 11:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That's true. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 12:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * But the most of Qui-Gon that lives on is his voice. Yoda and Obi-Wan's bodies appeared through the Force. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 00:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Remember in Episode IV when Obi-Wan tells Luke to "use the Force" when firing the proton torpedoes at the Death Star I. Only his voice was used, not a physical image. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 16:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've seen the movie. But now I can't remeber why I argued this in the first place. Never mind :-) - Milo Fett [Comlink] 22:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no set time limit for how long it takes for a body to disintegrate, it took at least a few minutes for the body of Jedi Master Nejaa Halcyon (see I, Jedi) to disintegrate. I also would like to point out that Yoda give Obi-Wan an assignment at the end of Episode III, the assignment it to communicate with the ghost/spirit of Qui-Gon Jin, therefore, Qui-gon did become a spirit.
 * Neblax just because something is not shown does not mean that it is not canon, if that were true then that would mean that every character that does not appear in the movies but does in the books is non-canonical,

Sidious is not Anakin's father
To quote from Dark Lord, near the beginning of Chapter 21, p. 133 in the hardback:

"He recalled thinking: What if Anakin should die?

How many years would he have had to search for an apprentice even half as powerful in the Force, let alone one created by the Force itself to restore balance, by allowing the dark side to percolate fully to the surface after a millennium of being stifled?"

Two sentences later:

"Sidious would have had to discover a way to compel midichlorians to do his bidding, and bring into being one as powerful as Anakin."

It's very clear: Sidious neither knew how to do the midi trick, nor did he create Anakin, and he personally believed Anakin to have been made just by the Force. I'm removing the speculation that it could be Sidious, and I'll ask that no one re-adds it without addressing this. - Lord Hydronium 08:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Picture
I sort of think that the more ubiquitous Darth Vader (you can probably guess which one I'm talking about)should be in the infobox picture. If I can still read, lower down in this page the infobox picture is addressed briefly, and someone who's username looks a lot like a four-dotted ellipsis says that the picture should depict the person in their prime. If the semi-deformed ellipsis can be trusted, then I think that it follows that the infobox picture shouldn't have Hayden Christensen in it. --- 05:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)MaxW Sorry. Thanks for correcting me. MaxW 22:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)MaxW
 * No, no, no. Infobox images do not have to show the subject in their prime. And we're not changing the image because this current one was voted on before. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 12:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And I'm sorry for being rude. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 22:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

2.4 Rewrite - Anakin's dimisned connection to the Force
I believe the idea that Anakin's/Vader's connection to the Force was "greviously" dimished after meing maimed needs to be rexaimined. Using Yoda as an example, we cannot base a connection to the Force on body mass, as such, the reduced mass of flesh on Vader's body should not have an affect on his ability to use the Force, or his connection to it. Yoda was a fraction of Anakin's size, yet he was more powerful than every other Jedi. In my opinion, the argument does not hold water.

In Episode I, Qui Gon ambiguiously refers to a "midichlorion count." It's not stated whether they are counted through his whole body, or simply within his cells. My suspicion is the midichlorions were counted in the cells, as a small blood sample is used. It is also possible the Jedi used a certain measured quantity of blood/cells to yield a midichlorion count.

If we compare the masses of Anakin and Yoda, and apply the idea that the size of a body, and the midichlorions contained within the whole determine the connection to the Force, Yoda's concentration of midichlorions would need to be astronomical to produce the abilities he displays. As Yoda said, "Size matters not." I believe this applies even to Anakin sans three limbs.

If there is a cannon refrence contradicting this thought, please let me know, but even so the idea does not stand to reasoning, given the sum of evidence. Thoughts?


 * There have been several discussions about this and there are a few theories for instance ( and this is the one I prefer ) after the Duel with Obi-Wan and the loss of his wife Vader has become a Sad man and his only true last connection with life is Palpatine ( this is stated in The Legacy Of The Force series ) and because of his depression he limits himself now there is a whole theory about but it comes this to this once Vader would get over his 'depression' and forgive himself he would be able to summon his powerful Force potention again. However G.Lucas has stated that Vader only has 80% of Palpatines powers after the loss of his limps, if he did not lose his limps he would be twice as powerfull, and since this comes from Lucas himself we can presume that's the 'canon theory' Galedze ( Connection Trough The Force ) [[Image:Masterobis.jpg|25px]] 18:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good enough for me. Thanks.
 * The first user was dead on. While Anakin did lose some physical ability, it was 99% mental. Read Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader to learn more. He never stopped feeling sorry for himself. Sure he was weaker, but if he could have thrown the self-pity aside, he could have become even more powerful than Palpatine. He never truly got over the death of his wife. Indeed, he never fully embraced the dark side; if he had, he could have become the Jedi (though as a Sith, if that makes sense) he was meant to be. Chack Jadson 20:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And that could explain why he was able to kill Palpatine in RotJ: His son filled the space that Padmé had been in, allowing himself to fully embrace the Force. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Basicly yes, only then he was able to sort of 'get over it' and do what needed to be done. And what Chack says is also true despite Lucas's statement that Vader only has 80% of Palpatine's power he guess that it was the power he was using or could use at the time, either way I think Vader with or without limps had and always had the power of becoming the strongest Force user in the Galaxy ever within him. Galedze ( Connection Trough The Force ) [[Image:Masterobis.jpg|25px]] 20:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "only then he was able to sort of 'get over it' and do what needed to be done". No, I don't think so. Luke's cries of help to his father was what made Vader kill Palpatine. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's basicly what I'm saying ;) either way we all know the facts. Galedze ( Connection Trough The Force ) [[Image:Masterobis.jpg|25px]] 20:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Right. ;) &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok ( dude I forgot your name since you didn't sign your comment and I'm too lazy to chekc it in history again :p ) hope that answeres your question, PS ( and this is a little of topic here but still, I recently saw the whole thing you woudl leave an all Nebulax and although you did put me on the vandal list for a not so great reason ;)( I don't really care :p ) I guess-know- it's a good thing you decided to stay ;), ok back on topic here. Now perhaps if this subject of Vader's Force power is brought up again ( for like the 1000 ste time or something ) we should perhaps make a solid few theories above the talk page if it is brought up again. Galedze ( Connection Trough The Force ) [[Image:Masterobis.jpg|25px]] 20:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Or we could just point the users towards past discussions. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * yeah but where already dooing that for like a year and for some strange reason the same question(s) keep coming back, either way let's just let it be for what it is and do wat we always do :p Galedze ( Connection Trough The Force ) [[Image:Masterobis.jpg|25px]] 21:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Birthplace
Anakin was born on Tatooine. The New Essential Chronology says so. Does the first part of the article have this in mind? - Milo Fett [Comlink] 02:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC) p.32 "On Tatooine, the slave Shmi Skywalker had given birth to a child more powerful in the Force than any other in history..." What sources are these, and do they predate the NEC? - Milo Fett [Comlink] 01:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC) True, but when Padmé and Anakin say "here", they could easily be referring to Watto's shop. Saying that they belonged to Gardulla the Hutt before that doesn't rule this out because Gardulla lives on Tatooine. If it's ambiguous in the movie, and a recent source says that he was born on Tatooine, then nothing really conflicts. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 14:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Just because a source is inconsistent in parts doesn't mean that other parts should be disregarded. In the screenplay, I don't see anything about "here" refering to Mos Eisley (or Mos Espa, for that matter), but it could be true. However, since we don't know for sure given the information from the film, and since a definite answer is given in another, C-canon source, albeit a partially incorrect source, I think that the best think for it is to go with the NEC. If you disagree, I'll just give up and work on more important things. Thanks for your time, - Milo Fett [Comlink] 00:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Citation of these sources would be welcome. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 20:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If the NEC said such a thing, i'm sure the article would have been edited as such by now. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 15:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been discussed, and the majority of sources say otherwise. As of now, Anakin has no known birthplace. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 19:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * For one, The Phantom Menace. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And to movies are a higher canon than anything. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Anakin says they moved to Mos Eisley when he was "three, I think". They were sold to Gardulla the Hutt when he was three. It doesn't say he was born on Tatooine, just that he had lived there since he was three. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Milo Fett, for one thing, The New Essential Chronology has screwed up already. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This has already been discussed. Anakin was not born on Tatooine. This discussion is over. Kindly don't restart it again. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hang on...does the NEC state clearly that he was born on Tatooine? Becuase if it does, he was, since TPM does not state otherwise...does it? .  .  .  .  07:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that other sources also say he wasn't born on Tatooine. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What, the movie's not good enough for you? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As an impartial observer, nowhere in the movie or the novelization (I just checked) does it explicitly say he was not from Tatooine. I know of no source that says so, but then again I haven't read a lot of the books set during and around 32 BBY. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  20:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, it may not be stated exactly, but that's what Anakin implies. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess what this all comes down to is implication in the film vs. statement in the NEC. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 01:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Implication of a 9 year old, and, for that matter, an implication that I can't recall, vs a cold, hard statement in the NEC. I'll back the latter for the time being. .  .  .  .  08:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for interrupting, but this all seems a little pointless. What's the problem here? If the NEC says Tatooine and there's no hard evidence for anything else, why can't we trust it? Evir Daal 08:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Because Jack thinks that the film alludes to him not being born there. .  .  .  .  08:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Anakin's statement overrides the NEC - which is presented as an in-universe document written by a fallible author. It can be wrong, quite easily, it certainly is with things such as the dates of the Battle of Galidraan and the Battle of Cathar. QuentinGeorge 08:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly... If he had stated explicitly that he wasn't born on Tatooine, which he didn't. As of now, the NEC must take precedence. Author may have intended it to be he was born there (or not), but that doesn't matter here. Only canon does. Evir Daal 08:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's...a bizzare mentality from some one like you, George. Are you saying that we can't be sure that Bane was originally called Dessel, since the last half of the book is so error-ridden? .  .  .  .  08:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The New Essential Guide to Characters also says he didn't arrive on Tatooine until he was 3. Prior to that, Shmi and Anakin belonged to Pi-Lippa, who did not live on Tatooine. QuentinGeorge 08:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Fourdot, the NEC is and always has been presented as an in-universe document. The novel Path of Destruction is not. There is a difference. QuentinGeorge 08:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That still fails to rule out that he was born on Tatooine, NEC being more recent than NEGTC. And Anakin is IU, I believe....eh, it's not worth it. .  .  .  .  09:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right: It's not worth it. Anakin was not born on Tatooine. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You keep saying that, but thus far you have failed to prove it, if you'll pardon me for being frank. Evir Daal 12:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hold on here. The NEGTC doesn't say that he arrived on Tatooine when he was 3, it says that he was "purchased by Gardulla the Hutt of Tatooine when Anakin was approximately three years old." That neither states nor implies that he wasn't on Tatooine before that. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 14:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Do us a favor, Milo: Provide us the exact quote from The New Essential Chronology. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 16:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * From Episode 1: "How long have you been here?" "Since I was very little. Three, I think."

- Padmé Naberrie and Annie

I transcripted it straight from the film, so the punctuation might be a little wrong, but this it what they actually said. As previously stated, "here" could be the planet, but it could just as easily be the city, or even Watto's shop, as it isn't defined in the film. So would everyone please stop using this source, at least, in their not-born-on-Tatooine-claims. And Nebulax, please don't revert the article again. Until we know for certain, we shouldn't make assumptions. Evir Daal 18:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) I didn't ask for a quote from Episode I. 2) I'm reverting it, because the version I keep adding in still leaves the possibility of Anakin's homeworld being Tatooine. Besides, your version is grammatically poor. You want to keep an edit war going, be my guest. We'll both get blocked for it. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. The movie does say that he has been "here" meaning it could be Espa or anywhere on Tatooine. Very vague. But the guide seems to be makes it crystal clear that he was born on Tatooine. Because the movie was so vague, the book really isn't contradicting anything...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would just like to see a quote from The New Essential Chronology already. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 22:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) I know you didn't, but since that seems to be what you're using for a source, I brought that up just to try and clear things up, in short: The movie isn't clear on it, and you can't claim it is before evidence to the contrary. 2) But it isn't a possibility, the NEC clearly says he was born there. If you know something the rest of us don't, kindly share it. If you haven't got a source, then don't bother. 3) My version is poor? "This planet..." what planet? It isn't even mentioned in your version. 4) You want a war? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but that doesn't seem to be working. If we can't resolve this peacefully, I don't see any other option than bringing this before the admins. Evir Daal 22:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm the one asking you for a simple quote. Just provide it already. If it says what you claim, I'll drop it. However, let me handle changing it in the article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 22:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, "here", could mean anywhere, but just think about it. It just makes sense that it's Tatooine. Besides, I'm pretty sure other canon sources say he wasn't born on Tatooine. Milo, until you can give us a quote, put it in BTS. Chack Jadson 22:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nebulax, didn't Milo Fett give it up at the start of this topic? And, sure, if you want that badly to rewrite it, that's fine with me (my last edit was before I read this). But stick to canon, will you? Look, it's getting real late were I'm writing from, so would you mind if I logged out and we continued this discussion tomorrow? Evir Daal 22:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Right... I got so caught up in this discussion that I forgot about that. But, Evir, canon says two things in this case: That he was born on Tatooine, and that he wasn't. So, the only way to have it in the article is to leave it ambiguous. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How about we hear more about these other sources that say he wasn't born on Tatooine...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 23:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll need some time to look through the sources I do have. But, let me ask you this: Would a source saying Anakin wasn't born on Tatooine change anyone's mind? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It would depend on the source...like, for example, if it was something like a trading card or promotional comic book, the NEC would override, but another C-canon source would probably take precedence, rather than having the "score" set to 1-1, due to the in-universe quality of the NEC. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 01:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * When dealing with c-canon, shouldn't the most recent source take precedence? But I see your point too, Milo. I guess it's a tough question. Nebulax, if you can find a more reliable source contradicting the NEC, I'm with you all the way. Canon is what's important here, not personal opinions. Evir Daal 09:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, here's the thing: I'll need other people to help me. I have a lot of books with Anakin in them, but I don't have all of them. In addition, I don't have a lot of spare time today. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 13:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 'Fraid I can't help you there, as I haven't got very many sourcebooks and stuff, I mainly collect novels and comics. But if I come up with something, I'll let you know. Evir Daal 15:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Does anyone have Tatooine Ghost? I think they read Shmi's holo-diary or something; it might solve this dispute. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 15:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have the book, but unfortunately not the time. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just bought a copy of Tatooine Ghost, and I'm reading it next weekend. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 03:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Has this crisis been averted? I mean, come on, this is a large arguement over a simple thing. One person says GEC says he was born on Tatooine, one person says he isn't. Nebulax, as stated before, you keep disapproving this, but you haven't provided proof. Inevitably, we're going to agree with Milo and GEC. Unless you come up with something, this arguement should be over. TheNewDarthMalevlent ( The Sith shall rise to power!) |undefined 00:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I said, but I didn't want to look like a jerk. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 15:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'v been looking through the source books that I have, but so far no mention of Anakin's birthplace other than NEC and TPM. I was thinking that it may be in the Vader: The Ultimate Guide, or something if anyone owns that, untill then the neutral statment made about his birthplace will do. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) [[Image:Oldsith.png|20px]] 19:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I finished reading Tatooine Ghost. Nothin'. Great read, though. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 04:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hero Cycle
The "crucifixion" part would be far better fitted by the arena scene in AOTC where Anakin is tied to a pole with a person either side of him
 * Well, I suppose that could be added, provided the current part isn't removed. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 02:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd better listen to Nebulax, he is to be taken VERY SERIOUSLY. He can get the admins to actually come to your house and kill you with a real lightsaber if you write a single word he doesn't like anywhere on this website. Why, yes, he does have the time to read every word on this entire website every day.  Hey, that IS NOT incredibly lame, how dare you talk about Nebulax like that?  He is a real Admiral and will Force Choke you faster than you can say "Hayden Christiansen sucks".  -"Prophet"
 * Real funny. Chack Jadson 22:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Lightsaber style
There is a thing that hurts my nose: in almost every lightsaber form article we have, Darth Vader is stated to have implemented elements of all other forms into his Form V technique. The Makashi page for example states that he implemented Makashi moves into his Form V, which obviously cannot be true since he couldn't have been trained in it. What's the source? - TopAce 21:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I assume it's the fact that Vader uses a single handed style in Empire. Bahlete on grounds of shameless fanwankery, I say. .  .  .  .  22:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In case of Makashi, yes. But he appears as a practitioner of other forms like Soresu or Ataru. - TopAce 22:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

A image that should be added to appearence.


This one. Mostly on the grounds that in the article we have an image of Jedi Ani, Dark Side Ani, Cooked Ani, but no Old Ani, which shows what he looks like in his final minutes. Something to help the description given. I would add it but the page as been protected for a while (as I have seen.).
 * What about Image:Fatherson.jpg? It's located in the correct spot for this picture to be placed. 12:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

sorry
I didn't notice that the articles were merged, not too too long ago they were separate articles, my mistake.  You Lose Talk to me! 02:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's an interesting proposal: I think the darth vader and anakin skywalker articles should be separated. The article is simply too long for the casual reader. I think it would be to the reader's benifit to break the long article into bite-sized portions. Of course, it would still be fine to include info about Darth Vader in the Skywalker article and vice versa. The article is definitely too long as it is. Wookieisawesome 11:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you read Palpatine? In any case, we just had a vote a few motnhs ago, and it was decided to combine them. Leave 'em as is. Chack Jadson 19:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know about the vote. Too bad. Wookieisawesome 11:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry Wookieisawesome. I think that we should start a new vote. You can vote below. LukeSkywalker 11:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The Ultimate Vote
Hi, LukeSkywalker here. I think that there should be two articles, one for Anakin and one for Vader. Anakin was part of the light side, while Darth Vader was part of the dark side. Although they're the same person, they just don't mix! As Obi-Wan said, Darth Vader "killed" Anakin, so Anakin was always good. Anyway, I say that we have a vote to see whether Darth Vader should be made into a separate article or not. Voice your choice, and May the Force be with you! LukeSkywalker 11:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No. This vote has been had. It's been decided to keep it as one. Chack Jadson 00:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * ... What Chack said. LukeSkywalker, don't start votes on an issue that had been solved by a vote not too long ago. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As much as I would like to see them as separate articles, like Jack and Chack said, it's been decided already to keep them as one. - JMAS 01:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: Do not vote for any of the options. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)