Talk:Chiss/Legends

Chiss Clawcraft
I was under the impression (although I may be wrong) that the Chiss Clawcraft were only used by the Empire of the Hand chiss and that the chiss of the Acedency used a differnt craft as Luke and Mara saw when they met the Chaf Envoy in Survivors Quest.

--Harlequin 08:33, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Empire of the Hand/Chiss Acendency
"Yet again, the Chiss make exceptions and have been known to accept non-Chiss members into their society, even to go as far as to welcome them into the Chiss military, as they did with Baron Soontir Fel, Jagged Fel, and Peita Aabe."

I was under the impression that these were humans Thrawn had recruited into the Empire of the Hand and not part of the Chiss Acendency.

--Harlequin 08:38, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

THE JOINER KING
Someone needs to update this article to reflect the information given to us by Formbi in Joiner King. Thanos6 16:48, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * If you've read it, go ahead. --SparqMan 17:40, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I would, but I don't think I can convey it adequately; little details about stuff like that always has been my weak point.Thanos6 18:16, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Naming discrepancy
While I was going through and fixing tense, I noticed that in the beginning, the last part of a Cheunh name is the family part (Nuruodo for example), but later on there's a mention of Chaf'orm'bintrano's family being called the Chaf clan. Are both Chaf and Nuruodo mentioned in sources as being family names? The only fix I see is if a "family" and a "clan" are two different things; the former most likely being a subsection of the latter. If that's the case, then we know what the "Mitth" in Thrawn's name means, and this line - "The first component, "Mitth", has an unknown meaning" - can be deleted. Thoughts? CooperTFN 03:16, 4 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Thule
THULE IS A PLANET INHABITED BY THE CHISS? It's in the former Sith Empire, and half a galaxy away from Csilla. How did they get so far across the Outer Rim? -- SFH 04:44, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * One of the mysteries of the dark side. Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds notes both their presence, and the fact that their presence is inexplicable.  jSarek 04:50, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, it pretty much hints they were brought there by the Sith during the New Sith Wars. This, coupled with their thousand-year old "no preemptive strike" rule makes me think they were involved in some battle then that ended very badly. QuentinGeorge 04:58, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Bartenders?
At which point in those two Jedi Knight games are the Chiss bartenders encountered, does anyone know? I've played them both, and don't recall seeing any Chiss. Kuralyov 18:45, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I remember mindtricking one on Nar Shadaa. --Master Starkeiller 19:57, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Kyle ran into one will seeking info on Reelo Baruk. Blue skin, blood red eyes that seemed to lack pupils, very bad grammer. Looked like a Chiss, but didn't really sound like one. And the bio section in Outcast specifically identified him as a Chiss. -- SFH 23:13, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * There's a Chiss bartender in Jedi Academy as well in one of the bars in that mision where you have to rescue the workers from the Rancor. KEJ 10:43, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

McEwok
You, sir, are my hero. CooperTFN 04:00, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Uniforms
IIRC, the CEDF uniforms are black because it is the House color of Nuruodo, who was responsible for military oversight. --SparqMan 18:25, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. I'm going to check, but I'm pretty sure that SQ says explicitly that black combines all the colours, and that Nuruodo's colour is implied to be red elsewhere (burgundy jumpsuits in VotF, no black cloaks in Refugee)... --McEwok 20:23, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Printed library
In Refugee, the Chiss librarian says, "The Chiss have always stored sensitive information in this fashion. It is safe, secure, and permanent.  We have lost too much data in ice storms to trust other, more complicated forms of storage." (emphasis my own). An interesting basis for the books. --SparqMan 02:36, 9 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Gah!! The only problem with that is that the books, supposedlly the fundamental exploration archive of the CEDF, are, if I remember right, written in Basic. In the Outbound Flight teaser in the back of The Unseen Queen, it's suggested that a curious and open-minded frontier commander in the CEDF doesn't know Basic in the Prequel era. I should have mentioned it, you're right, but I'm not entirely sure what to say that's simultaneously simple and straightforward for the reader, a good summary of the Refugee material, and an effective note of the possibility there's something odd going on here. So &mdash; any suggestions?  --McEwok 23:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

General thoughts
Chiss continuity is, it would appear, a mess. I've read over prety much every official word ever written about the Chiss, and the article needed rewritten to remove extensive copyvios (probably copied in good faith from open-source resources), and to try to replace OOU hypothesis with at least clearly-marked in-universe speculation. I'm still, with glacial slowness, revising, reworking, and rewording stuff... but, all in all, any suggestions anyone can make would be appreciated. One of the strengths of Wookiee is that we can see around each other's weaknesses. Thanks!! --McEwok 23:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Images
Is there a way to transfer over the image of Thrawn from the Wiki article? And is anyone able to throw up a grab of the picture of the two Chiss in Gamer #5, and maybe the charrics for the tech section, as well? Thanks! --McEwok 14:27, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * You mean this one? Image:Thrawn.jpg --SparqMan 16:55, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep! Thanks! :-D --McEwok 17:17, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Star Destroyers
I've seen mention that in The Joiner King, there is mention of Chiss-built Star Destroyers at Qoribu and Kr. Confirmation? --SparqMan 18:10, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep, there is. But I'm not sure what to call the page. Chiss Star Destroyer?
 * For such a self-important species, they really seem willing to steal imperial designs. -- SFH 00:43, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)**
 * Nope. The Alliance just calls their ships "Star Destroyers" - Denning has said it's not a real VSD, just around the same size, and I'm not even sure if we hear any Chiss use the term. The only Imperial design we see the CEDF use is the TIE-cockpit Clawcraft, which they presumably got from the Household Phalanx during the continuity snafu in 28-29 ABY. --McEwok 00:59, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about that. Isn't it possible that the Chiss adopted the clawcraft when Soontir Fel joined the Chiss Ascendancy? -- SFH 01:28, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what I meant by "the continuity snafu in 28-29 ABY". We know the Chiss are using ships called "Clawcraft" as early as Red Sky, Blue Flame in 19/22 ABY, but there's nothing in the text of the story that actually says they're the TIE-cockpit Chiss/Imperial hybrid ships we see in the NJO... --McEwok 03:07, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

5 Trillion Chiss
I'd like the origin of this statement in the history section:
 * "New Republic sources suggested that their interstellar expansion had been driven by the need to feed the large urban population of the capital, which had grown beyond the levels that Csilla could comfortably sustain, and estimated a total Chiss population for the Ascendancy of just less than five trillion...". Five trillion seems like alot, but is there a source that actually says this? -- Riffsyphon1024 13:46, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's like ~800 Earth populated planets. Maybe from Dark Nest? --SparqMan 17:17, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * If it's official, it's just another ridiculous understatment. We're talking about a galaxy here! A friggin' galaxy! Do these people actually know the size of a galaxy? Quintillions, septillions, that kind of thing, not millions, billions and trillions! And it's not like the Ascendancy is small... --Master Starkeiller 16:58, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'm of the opinion that lots of space doesn't mean the entire Galaxy is a suburb... but the quote is from Gamer #5, page 109: "the worlds in their territory more than suffice for the total Chiss population needs (estimated at just shy of five trillion)". That's five Coruscants, spread between one ice-world and twenty-eight colonies that seem to exist largely to feed the capital; but it's canon. --McEwok 04:10, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems like a large number, but then again a population in the trillions does make some sense. For all their claims of being peace loving, this is a trigger happy race. They would logically need a large population to maintain the CEDF, plus 28 Colonial Phalanxes, at comfortable levels. -- SFH 23:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Tall?
The Chiss were a tall humanoid species Height of average adult 	1.7 meters 1.7 meters = Just under 5' 7. Unless I'm mistaken 5' 6 is the average human height and 5' 9 the avg. male height making the avg. human height, assuming there's an equal number of males and females in the world, is 5' 7.5, over a half an inch taller than the Chiss, so the Chiss are in no way tall. --Darthsith19 01:26, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * "The Chiss are tall, blue-skinned humanoids with glowing red eyes" - Gamer #5, p. 108. It could be that in in the GFFA the average human (or humanoid, or simply sentient) is smaller than 5'7; it could also be that the Chiss average includes a number of legally competent teenage "adults" who're still growing physically. *shrugs* Works for me? --McEwok 00:57, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)


 * Is it possible the 1.7 meters Wikicities says is the avg. Chiss height may be wrong? --Darthsith19 01:25, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * "Height of average adult 1.7 meters", The Essential Guide to Alien Species, page 20; "They stand between 1.6 and 2.1 meters in height", Alien Anthology, page 65; "They stand between 1.6 and 2.1 meters tall", Ultimate Alien Anthology, page 37, with a "Usual Suspects" illustraion of a Chevin, Chev, Chiss and Clawdite that shows the Chiss pretty close to 1.7m. That said, an average of 1.7m/5'7" seems low within the bracket of 1.6-2.1m (about 5'3" to 6'10"), but of course, since these are "in-universe" sources, they may be based on inadequate or simply different demographic samples. I rather like the idea that "1.7m" is held low by including everyone aged over ten... --McEwok 03:18, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

What's an Ewok to do?
Some thoughts for discussion about the changes made in prepping this for "featured" status. I stayed away quite deliberately while it was being discussed, so apologies if I seem tardy now - and, please note, these are just my thoughts; anyone with a POV, feel free to reply....
 * Introductory paragraph The Chiss were a tall, blue-skinned Near-Human species from the Unknown Regions, best known as the species to which Grand Admiral Thrawn belonged. The Chiss were very mysterious to the rest of the Galaxy, largely keeping to themselves in their home beyond the Outer Rim Territories, expanding the Chiss Ascendancy across much of the Unknown Regions thousands of years before they made any significant impact on the rest of the Galaxy, when Thrawn launched the infamous Thrawn campaign.
 * I think this could be better. I wonder if the second sentence is needed at all; it's essentially a rephrasing of the first sentence coupled with the somewhat questionable claim that the Chiss expanded across "much" of the UR "thousands of years" before the NR period. I'm not sure if that was what the writer meant to say, but it seems a little confident in its suggestions of great size and age for the Ascendancy as an interstellar empire.


 * Overview: "The Chiss were a tall Near-Human race" has become "The Chiss are a tall humanoid species".
 * While I might wonder why/whether Near-Human needs to be capitalized, the Chiss are genetically related to humans, making that a more appropriate than humanoid; that was also why I used "race" rather than "species", inasmuch it's not clear that the Chiss really are a truly seperate species: but if people find "race" too loaded as a term, how about "near-human people"?


 * Biology: "midnight-black hair" has been replaced by "jet black hair".
 * "Jet-black" seems a far more clichéd description to me; it's also the exact phrase used in The Essential Guide to Alien Species. All other sources say "blue-black", however, hence my choice of "midnight-black".


 * History: "It seems evident from these events that a concern with external threats lay at the back of the disquiet" has become "It seems evident from these events that a concern with external threats laid at the back of the disquiet".
 * I think that whoever edited this has confused two meanings of "it lay" (3rd per. sing. past tense of "to lie", and 3rd. per. sing. present tense of "to lay"); mistaking the former for the latter and hypercorrecting the tense. In the past tense "a concern... lay at the back of the disquiet" means that the concern was behind the disquiet; "a concern... laid at the back of the disquiet" means that the concern went behind the disquiet and put something else there (eg. eggs :¬p). See here.


 * History: Removal of reference to nension "between inflexible conservatives and idealistic radicals"
 * Perhaps the adjectives make this too inflexible a statement in itself, but I do think that the conservative/radical, reactionary/reformer dichotomy ought to be indicated here...


 * Language and names: removal of most of the bolding, which I'd used to mark out each technical term and Chiss name under discussion on its first introduction in this section.
 * There's now a mix of plain text, bold, italics, links (to pages that don't exist, for names that exist only as examples of Chiss names in the Alien Anthology). Is this better?


 * Known Planets and Bases: removal of "Numerous other House Phalanx academies and bases on remote worlds".
 * Minor, but I thought it was quite useful in reminding people that the places we saw were just some among many... maybe that was just me?


 * Known Chiss individuals: removal of whole section to List of Chiss.
 * Given that most of these characters barely warrant a stub, and a lot don't have articles, were there alternatives to moving this to a seperate page, and losing the information it contained in the process?

Anyway. All just my thoughts: let me know what you think! --McEwok 17:19, 17 January 2006 (UTC)