User talk:Master Fredcerique

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Darth Lecans signature
So to use that template for my signature i would go on edit, see how its written and use that as my signature? Wow thanks dude that's the coolest thing anybody has ever done to me on this website.Darth Lecan Boom!(Would make signature cooler but is bad at this kind of stuff) 06:08, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Review
I may not be the best person to ask—I don't really know what should go in an OOU article :P. But anyway, some flaws I saw while quickly checking it: Infobox should be sourced, the entire article in fact, except the intro, needs to be sourced, and all lists (using common sense, however) should be turned into prose. But I suggest you ask our OOU expert, instead. Hope that helps. 1358 (Talk) 17:30, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, sourcing technically means the same thing as referencing. 1358  (Talk) 17:36, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Talkpages
Hey Master Fred. I just wanted to ask you to add Talkheader at the top of a talk page when you are adding your project's template. It just makes for proper formatting. Thanks. Cylka  -talk- 17:38, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Main Title
I saw your original message, but my time of late has been slightly limited on the Wook. To be honest, I have no real interest in the music articles, so my review may not be as in-depth as you want. However, from a GA standpoint, here's the main issues with it:
 * 1) Symbolism - unless the soundtrack notes provide an explanation for the "heroic cycle" you'll either need to drop it, or find an alternative, acceptable source to source it to. Also, an explanation of what the "heroic cycle" actually is will be needed. Additionally, does the soundtrack ascribe each movement (not sure that's the correct word) to a particular part of the cycle? Or have you assigned it based on your reading of the work? If the latter is the case, then that is original research, which is not allowed.
 * 2) You're sourcing things directly to the soundtrack which could be misleading. Unless the soundtrack notes specifically have the information you're sourcing in them, then you may need to find alternate sources. Also, do not assume that everyone is a musician, or that they know what music terms mean. Write for the layman.
 * 3) No lists. Turn them into prose.
 * 4) The Holiday Special is canon. As such, a greater look at its use as a song IU is needed. Lyrics should also be provided in this instance.
 * 5) "In Popular Culture" - too short by a long way. There are many, many films that sample part of the Main Title track which should be included in this section.
 * 6) No sections detailing the track's conception, development, creation, etc. I'm sure there are interviews with Williams concerning this, as well as possible featurettes on DVDs concerning this. Also, no mention of Star Wars: In Concert, where the Title is used. - Cavalier One FarStar Logo.jpg( Squadron channel ) 21:19, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Music info
It's not required nor is it a relevant addition to the article. What you could do is add the information in the bts by itself with no sub-sectioning. If you look at the Battle of Christophsis bts, there's music information there. That could give you an idea on how to add music information in a bts. However, it's not required to add-in music information in a bts.  JangFett  (Talk) 13:54, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Re: WP:RWM
Hey, Fred. Sorry, about not getting back to you sooner. I wasn't trying to snub you or anything, I swear. For some reason the "You have a new message" notice never popped up, notifying me of your original message, and I don't check my talk page otherwise. Probably one of Wikia's infamous goof-ups. *shrug* But anyway, I'm flattered at the invitation and thanks for the compliment on my writing skills. I wouldn't mind joining the project, but to be honest, I really don't think I'd be a big help. Yeah, I have all the soundtracks and everything, but I don't know the first thing about music other than what I like to listen to. Technical stuff eludes me. And I wouldn't even be able to contribute with any information from the booklets or back of the CD cases, since all the music I have is downloaded. Sorry. But it's nice to meet you too, and if you ever need anything from any of the other sources I have (Novels, comics, DVDs, games, etc...), I'd be more than happy to help. Bella&#39;Mia 15:29, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Main Title
Hey Fred,

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I totally missed your first message. Thanks for the reminder. ^^

As far as I know, there aren't any featured, good, or comprehensive articles on individual pieces of music; there aren't really any directions in the layout guide (yet!) for out-of-universe articles, either, so a project like this doesn't have too many rigid rules to follow and allows for a lot of trailblazing. However, as Cav has said, there should be some sections on the conception, development, and creation of the title, preferably at the beginning of the article. This info may be difficult to find, but the SW main title is a very prominent thing from the films, and the article needs to reflect that. Off the top of my head, Empire of Dreams talks a little bit about how in a movie plagued with delays and production problems, John Williams' writing and recording of the score was refreshingly quick and painless.

References shouldn't be in section headers. Those sections also have lists, which, as Cav noted, should be turned into prose, and that prose should be referenced, rather than the headers. Something like "The title is heard several times in The Phantom Menace, including..."

For an FA or a GA, I don't... think... it's very good form to write out all of the lyrics to parody or spinoff versions. I'd go for a short sample of them, but I really don't think the entire song is needed. I'd try to keep it within a prose paragraph, too, but that's just my preference; it's flexible. Keep in mind that everything needs to be sourced, including the lyrics, and especially that final paragraph about SW in Concert.

The Holiday Special and video games are part of the Expanded Universe; I think the article would look better if those three sections were combined into one. All of those one paragraph sections in close succession looks kinda yucky.

I think there should be a note about how the main title theme kicks off every film's end credits (and closes them off in the cases of Jedi and Sith). Regarding the video games --- when in the game are they heard? I feel like that deserves as much detail as the movies.

A really cool choice for a project. It definitely needs more research, though. I always had trouble playing this piece on my trombone. It went really high really quickly. :^P Menkooroo 00:26, October 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey! I don't think that a subsection for every film is needed. I think that one section called "In Star Wars soundtracks" would be OK, with several-sentence-long paragraphs and smooth sentence flow. As it stands, it still reads like a list, even if it's not bulleted. Menkooroo 04:03, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi! That's a really interesting interview. Thanks for the link. :) I don't really have time to add the info to the article right now, but I'll post the relevant bits here on your talk page so you can tackle it yourself (and take all the credit, too :^P). A lot of sites are blocked at my work (The Onion and College Humor :' so I can totally sympathize. Anyway, here's the relevant bits. And, I guess, uh, I need to make a disclaimer that this is being reposted for research purposes. So... yeah. It is.

CB: At the Star Wars Special Edition screening in December, when the main theme came on, the audience responded. What were you looking for in the main theme?

JW: The opening of the film was visually so stunning, with that lettering that comes out and the spaceships and so on, that it was clear that that music had to kind of smack you right in the eye and do something very strong. It's in my mind a very simple, very direct tune that jumps an octave in a very dramatic way, and has a triplet placed in it that has a kind of grab.

I tried to construct something that again would have this idealistic, uplifting but military flare to it. And set it in brass instruments, which I love anyway, which I used to play as a student, as a youngster. And try to get it so it's set in the most brilliant register of the trumpets, horns and trombones so that we'd have a blazingly brilliant fanfare at the opening of the piece. And contrast that with the second theme that was lyrical and romantic and adventurous also. And give it all a kind of ceremonial... it's not a march but very nearly that. So you almost kind of want to [laughs] patch your feet to it or stand up and salute when you hear it—I mean there's a little bit of that ceremonial aspect. More than a little I think.

The response of the audience that you ask about is something that I certainly can't explain. I wish I could explain that. But maybe the combination of the audio and the visual hitting people in the way that it does must speak to some collective memory—we talked about that before—that we don't quite understand. Some memory of Buck Rogers or King Arthur or something earlier in the cultural salts of our brains, memories of lives lived in the past, I don't know. But it has that kind of resonance—it resonates within us in some past hero's life that we've all lived.

Now we're into a kind of Hindu idea, but I think somehow that's what happens musically. That's what in performance one tries to get with orchestras, and we talk about that at orchestral rehearsals: that it isn't only the notes, it's this reaching back into the past. As creatures we don't know if we have a future, but we certainly share a great past. We remember it, in language and in pre-language, and that's where music lives—it's to this area in our souls that it can speak.

Aaaaaaaand here's a bit on the film music in general: "All of these aspects of journey and heroic life and aspiration and disappointment, all of the great human subjects that this seems to touch and tap in on, must be one of the reasons for its great success. I suppose for me as a composer for the film, these forces that I'm struggling to put my finger on must have been at work subconsciously. The music for the film is very non-futuristic. The films themselves showed us characters we hadn't seen before and planets unimagined and so on, but the music was—this is actually George Lucas's conception and a very good one—emotionally familiar. It was not music that might describe terra incognita but the opposite of that, music that would put us in touch with very familiar and remembered emotions, which for me as a musician translated into the use of a 19th century operatic idiom, if you like, Wagner and this sort of thing. These sorts of influences would put us in touch with remembered theatrical experiences as well—all western experiences to be sure. We were talking about cross-cultural mythology a moment ago; the music at least I think is firmly rooted in western cultural sensibilities."

Also... I think I wanna join your project... I have a hankering to FAN The Asteroid Field. Goddamn I love that piece of music. Menkooroo 13:27, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

Some more stuff
Hey Fred,

A very, very important thing to keep in mind for articles is that the intro operates separately from the rest of the article. Not only do things that are linked in the intro have to be linked again in the rest of the article, but they also have to be introduced and mentioned again. What I mean is, Conception is the first section of Star Wars Main Title's body, but it reads as if the information it discusses has already been introduced. Yes, that info already has been introduced --- but in the intro. The body is a fresh start. I recommend checking out some other out-of-universe Featured Articles to get an idea of how to reintroduce stuff in the body, and of how to write a conception section that starts from scratch (go for Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi, Agents of Chaos Duology, and Into the Great Unknown as a few examples). Similarly, there's some stuff in the intro that isn't mentioned anywhere else in the article (the stuff about the war drums), but it should appear somewhere in the body.

The In the soundtracks section still reads like a list, even if it's not bulleted. I recommend trying to turn it into a prosey paragraph that's something like... "The theme and its motifs appear in every Star Wars film. For example, The Phantom Menace features it in the blah blah blah..."

That's some reorganizational stuff to get you started. I'm a big fan of out-of-universe articles, and I love seeing them put up for featured/good status, so feel free to ask for help/reviews/whatever at any time! Menkooroo 16:05, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey! Sorry if I wasn't clear. What I mean to say is: Any info that is introduced in the intro needs to be introduced again in the body. And that includes the most basic stuff, even "The Star Wars Main Title is..." The body doesn't continue where the intro left off --- it operates independently of it. The intro is basically a summary of the rest of the article; think of it as a completely separate entity from the article's body. The best way to write an article, IMO, is to write the intro last. So, after you've completed the article, you write the intro to quickly summarize what's already there.

If you look at those examples I linked above, all of them introduce the subject of the article in the intro and in the body. When you're writing the article, write the body first, and start from scratch. Start off with something like "John Williams was contracted to write the score to a film called Star Wars, and he wrote all these pieces. While he was conceiving of the film's main title, he was inspired by blah blah blah... thus, he wrote the Star Wars Main Title." Whatever you do, don't start off the article's body with "Remember that theme I mentioned in the intro? Well, I'm going to talk about it more here." A random example of how to do it is Knightfall Trilogy --- the body of the article (beginning with "development") assumes that the reader knows absolutely nothing about the subject, and gives some necessary background info before it starts describing the actual subject.

Again, don't think of the intro as part of the article --- think of it as a separate being entirely, and write it last. After you've written the article proper, write the intro, which will summarize the article proper and only include the most important points.

Does that make sense? Menkooroo 13:49, October 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Definitely the right idea! :^) Needs a bit of fine-tuning, though. For example, you mention a contrast with the second theme --- what is the second theme? Also, "In the soundtracks" looks a lot better. Do you have more research/work to do, or do you think you're done? Do you want me to give the article a full review/copy-edit? Menkooroo 13:05, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Re:
Heh. It's straight from our Quote database, which has funny quotes from both the IRC channel as well as from the wiki. :-) 1358  (Talk) 17:45, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

RE:WP:RWM
My interest in the music of Star Wars is rather low, so I'll take a pass for now. Perhaps later.  OLIOSTER  (talk) 20:52, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm also not too interested; I've got projects here already.-- ID-21 Dolphin  DolphinJedi.png(Talk) 01:21, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

star wars theme
well i'm pretty sure that there is no main theme in them seeing as how they are the clone wars games. they have the clone wars theme though.User:Grand Moff Hopkins


 * I mean the one played at the start of the clone wars tv show. It kind of sounds like the one from the movies but it is not exactly the same.User:Grand Moff Hopkins


 * Your quite welcome.User:Grand Moff Hopkins

Grub's up
Hey Fred, sorry for the delay in getting it done but I've finally done the other of the Main Title SVGs for you, uploaded here. The font at the top isn't identical but it doesn't really matter in this case. Let me know if there are any problems with it, otherwise feel free to replace it with the JPG version in the article. Cheers, NAYA   YEN   21:44, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Project
OK, just one question. Do you need sources for making articles about soundtracks?--Station7 20:05, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what I did mean. --Station7 21:44, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

RE: WP:RWM
Hey MasterFred, thanks for the invite but currently I've got my hands full with Clone Wars what-not, how ever if I hear any more references to Star Wars in my expansive music library I'll be sure to add it. :)  Agent Cards <> 04:34, November 9, 2010 (UTC)