Talk:501st Legion/Legends

Were the 501st Legion trained by the Separatists and/or Sith to kill Jedi? -- Eddyward Telerionus 22:28, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, only if you look at it from Palpatine's POV. The clones were his tools.  But, for all intents and purposes, they were commissioned to destroy the Separatists.  The purge of the Jedi Order was a later order, signifying their transition to the Empire. [[Image:Tbhelm.gif|30px]] Shadowtrooper talk 00:37, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Well, i don't believe that the 501st Legion fought against the Separatists. I believe that the 501st Legion was a top-secret military unit within the Grand Army of the Republic that was trained by the Sith to respond to Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious's command to kill Jedi. -- Eddyward Telerionus 10:47, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I don't think it was that way. They didn't probally fight against the Separatists (save maybe for the ground battle of the Battle of Coruscant), because they were probally similiar to the Shocktroopers: for homeplanet defence. Now, maybe they were trained in secret, but I extremely doubt they were trained by Palpatine/Sidious to specifically attack and kill the Jedi. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 19:18, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Nobody knew about the 501st Legion except Palpatine/Darth Sidious. They were secretly trained by the Sith to enact a series of emergency protocols (including Order 66 against the Jedi). The 501st Legion Clone troopers were the first true stormtroopers. Would y'all consider ARC-trained Phase II Clone trooper commanders of other units to be agents of the 501st Legion? -- Eddyward Telerionus 06:29, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. The 501st was well known. It definately wasn't a secret. QuentinGeorge 06:48, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Well, i need proof of this! -- Eddyward Telerionus 07:06, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Where's your proof it was a secret? QuentinGeorge 07:14, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I don't have proof and nobody in the Republic knew the 501st Legion (except Palpatine/Sidious). -- Eddyward Telerionus 00:43, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Battlefront II will probably shed light on the 501st.-LtNOWIS 01:00, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, considering how a person is in control of a clone trooper of the 501st (and his/her actions will determine the fate of the Republic...), I don't think this will shed much light about the unit. Just my opinion, of course. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 12:05, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Battles fought
Where are the sources for about half of those battles? I know the Clone Wars-era ones are right, but if the answer for the others is "Because of Battlefront II", that's incorrect. Also, the 501st Legion wasn't even active during the Battle of Geonosis. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 19:31, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Listen, Xilentshadow, not everything in the games is true. Just because they're around in Battlefront II for those missions does not show that they were really in those battles. The 501st wasn't activated until a while after Geonosis, and there is nothing official to state that they happened to participate in the First Battle of Yavin Base or Hoth. Now, it's possible that they were really at Hoth due to Vader's arrival, but that is mere speculation. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:00, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * "The 501st began just as any of the other initial clone units that blazed across the rocky deserts of Geonosis in the first historic battle of the Clone Wars. They seemed identical to the other clones that infiltrated the Separatist stronghold and pushed the Confederacy forces off-planet. Nonetheless, the Supreme Chancellor himself took special interest in the success record of the 501st." Star Wars Databank. I know at least that one is right. I assumed that since at least some of the story of Battlefront II is being put in the databank, all of it is canonical. For the battle of Yavin base or whatever, I figured that "Vader's fist" would at least follow vader onto yavin, or anywhere else he went. Xilentshadow900 23:03, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, what it clearly shows is that many other clone units began at Geonosis, however, it might show that they were at Geonosis. But until good proof the clearly shows it is found, we really can't jump to conclusions. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:06, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, it doesn't say that Vader was on Yavin during the battle. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:06, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll ask somebody at LFL. Xilentshadow900 23:06, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Vader's Fist boards the Tantive IV in ANH, and is present at Hoth and Endor. And if the 501st began 'just as any of the other initial clone units' then yes, they were at Geonosis with the rest - Kwenn
 * Okay, Hoth and Endor will be added. But where did you get this information, Kwenn? Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:11, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * And vader is at the First Battle of Yavin Base, according to that page. Xilentshadow900 23:16, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Where does it say that he's on the ground, then? Cmdr. J. Nebulax 19:57, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * From the Databank: When the Death Star plans were stolen by Rebel spies, the 501st were dispatched on missions to track down the valuable technical readouts. Such reassignment saved the ranks from destruction when the Death Star's main reactor exploded at the climax of the Battle of Yavin. Not explicitly stated, but which other stormtrooper legion would accompany Vader during the pursuit of Leia than the 501st? Remember, the Devastator was Vader's pre-Executor flagship, so it's likely members of the 501st were stationed onboard - Kwenn
 * And I'm pretty sure that its not relevant whether Darth Vader was on the ground or not.Xilentshadow900 20:38, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Yet, guesses are not good enough. Until a good source is found clearly stating that the 501st fought at the First Battle of Yavin Base, I'm removing it. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:41, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * The fact that its in the game should be enough, considering its canonical. Xilentshadow900 22:33, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * It should. I really don't understand why we need to have an argument about it. The game is canon. The game presents the 501st at all of the battles mentioned. End of story.TIEPilot051999 22:40, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Refer to the last statement of the "Behind the Scenes" section on the Clone Jet Trooper page. You'll see why we need better proof. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:38, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * "...however, due to Battlefront's tendency to go against the official canon..." Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:38, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * The two things, are unrelated. One is a soldier, but the other is an event in the canon, and not a unit. --Xilentshadow900 23:50, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Whiteboy himself said the single-player mission was considered canonical. While it doesnt make it official, its official enough for his wiki. --Xilentshadow900 23:54, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC) Xilentshadow900 21:06, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC) The game confirms it's the 501st who accompany Vader onboard the Tantive IV. They lose over half their number at Yavin, but have their finest hour at Hoth (the last mission). No mention of Endor in the game, though I assume the Emperor is referring to the 501st when he tells Luke a 'legion of his best troops' is stationed on the Sanctuary Moon - Kwenn
 * Fine. But I would still like to see some actual proof. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:54, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Or disproof eh? --Xilentshadow900 23:56, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Either proof that they were at the First Battle of Yavin Base, or proof that the weren't at the battle. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:59, 31 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Right, proof and disproof. Xilentshadow900 00:08, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly. That's why I'm leaving it up there for the time being. But I don't think there is any proof to support the claim that they participated at the First Battle of Yavin Base. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 00:10, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm wrong, in one of the missions in-game, you attack yavin after the death star blows up. I'm pretty sure thats called the First Battle of Yaving Base. and I'm pretty sure that's part of the continuity.--Xilentshadow900 00:25, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * No, the First Battle of Yavin Base was different. It happened after a blockade of Yavin 4. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:55, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Right, because they blew up the Death star. Its the same thing.
 * That is probably the most likely meaning of "a legion of his best troops". Cmdr. J. Nebulax 22:12, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Geonosis
Okay, another thing: How could the 501st participate at Geonosis while the unit was not created until after the Battle of Jabiim? Like I said before, not everything in the games is always right. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 00:36, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Appo
It says in the article that Appo was killed by Zett Jukassa, but the article on Appo says he survived. I don't know which is true, but I suggest that this be fixed. Hollis 13:20, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe that a book (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, I believe) said he survived. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:51, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * what? the book isnt even out yet...--Xilentshadow900 23:23, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * It is in the UK, I know as have read it. Gothymog 23:37, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't have the book, but I know my friend in the UK has a copy of it. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:49, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)

9th Assault Corps
After giving it some thought, I've come to the conclusion that the 501st Legion was an element of Cmdr. Gree's 9th Assault Corps. This realization comes after I noticed the likeness between Gree's armor, at least his RotS camoflauge armor, and that of a trooper of the 501st. In addition, the 9th Assault Corps, the 41st Elite Legion at the very least, appeared to have been stationed on Coruscant, at least temporarily. Once more, the troopers whom we see during the opening Battle of Coruscant sequence, the ones aboard the exploding Star Destroyer, all sported 41st Elite Legion markings. It makes sense. -- AdmThrawn --
 * But its not from an actual source, therfore will not be incorporated into the article.--Xilentshadow900 20:06, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't get your panties in a bunch. I never suggested, nor do I think, that it should be. Just thought I'd share that, as it makes a hell of a lot of sense. -- AdmThrawn --
 * Plus, just because their armor looks the same does not mean they were from the same corps. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:11, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * You seem to forget that the 501st were grown on coruscant under direct command from palpatine, while Gree's 9th assault corps were led by luminara and gree. Palpatine had his own agenda for the 501st, and I'm sure he didn't want others messing with them--Xilentshadow900 20:13, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:15, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Some have stated, the official site's databank among them, that the 501st was born and raised on Coruscant, while others, this article among them, maintains that the 501st was founded after the Battle of Jabiim, which I believe to be incorrect, and then transferred to Coruscant to supplement Cmdr. Thire's troops. Furthermore, Nebulax, armor coloration does play a more significant role than you seem to think it does. Markings identify parent division (a corps or sector army), while coloration denotes detachment (a legion or regiment). For example, a clone troop of the 9th Assault Corps could be identified as such by his markings, while the marking's coloration, grey, would identify him as a member of the 41st Elite Legion. Lastly, it makes perfect for the 501st to be tied to a parent division. If Palpatine wanted to keep the 501st's doings secret, he wouldn't attract unwanted attention to it by making it it's own independent entity. -- AdmThrawn --
 * Well, AdmThrawn, they were created after the Battle of Jabiim and were trained on Coruscant. And, they were independent from the other units of clone troopers. If anything, it was the shock troopers and the 501st in one larger unit. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:27, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * The 501st was not a mixed and matched group of soldiers plucked from other division and put into this newly-created one. The 501st began just as every other division in the GAR did, aside from being stationed on Coruscant and other Core worlds. When one says, "the 501st was created after Jabiim," I take it to mean that the 501st gained its "elite" status as Palpatine's personal division due to its stellar performances in the early months of the Clone Wars. -- AdmThrawn --
 * What Insider 84 says: "Some of these newer clones were transferred to secret facilities on coruscant a year or so after the battle of Geonosis, accompanied by Kaminoan technicians, in case there were further attacks on Kamino. These clones were raised and trained to become Palpatine's elite shock troopers and 501st legion." Databank: "Like the red-emblazoned soldiers that made up the ranks of Palpatine's elite shock troopers, the 501st underwent training and conditioning not on distant Kamino, but in a top-secret facility on Coruscant known only to select members of Palpatine's command staff. It was shortly after the Battle of Jabiim, when the threat to Coruscant seemed all the more real, that the 501st were based out of the capital." --Xilentshadow900 20:43, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you for those quotes, Xilentshadow. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:49, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Now, Correct me if I'm wrong. These quotes are telling me that the 501st were created on Kamino, were brought to coruscant for elite training, were formed as a unit on coruscant, but then based out of the capital after the battle of Jabiim. That's correct, isn't it?--Xilentshadow900 20:52, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, completely correct. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 21:00, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * "It was shortly after the Battle of Jabiim, when the threat to Coruscant seemed all the more real, that the 501st were based out of the capital." That is, the 501st was rotated back to Coruscant and the Core as the threat of an attack on the capital increased. Once more, the fact that they were raised on Coruscant does not dispel the idea that they could've been a part of a larger division. Aside from the last part, I'm trying to figure out where we disagree. You two need to back the hell off. -- AdmThrawn --