Talk:New Jedi Order

See also Talk:New Jedi Order (disambiguation).

Previous history
(cur) (last) 22:21, 3 Nov 2005 Sikon (#redirect New Jedi Order) (cur) (last) 23:59, 20 Oct 2005 216.227.96.66 (cur) (last) 23:58, 20 Oct 2005 216.227.96.66 (cur) (last) 22:31, 17 Oct 2005 81.17.207.36 (cur) (last) 12:53, 14 Oct 2005 Kuralyov m (cur) (last)  11:58, 14 Oct 2005 Kuralyov m (cur) (last)  11:58, 14 Oct 2005 Kuralyov

Photo
Are there any better photos out there for the NJO? Kuralyov 22:53, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * There's a picture on Jedi Academy that might work. -- SFH 22:59, 3 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Species
There are a couple there that are not so obvious. The Zabrak and Kel Dor are from JK:JA. Even when the charcter is another species you can see students from these races there, so there must be some out there. The Quarren is from Union and is unnamed. The Ithorian is from the NJOSB where it mentions Jedi born on Ithor, therefore an Ithorian. Eyrezer


 * I'd like to put this pic Image:JediCantina.JPG below the other one in the Species section but I cannot get them lined up without putting the list way off. Can someone help? Eyrezer 22:43, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Vong Jedi? From where? Eyrezer 08:42, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Removed until sourced. -- SFH 22:07, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)


 * I hate to do it but I added Ewok. For the reason, see here from Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds Eyrezer 12:01, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Where does the Squib Jedi come from? — SavageBob 21:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned in The Joiner King as a young student playing Skorch. Has no name or identity yet. Eyrezer 00:53, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Jedi Members
We xshould have a list of all the Jedi in this order.
 * And so it was Eyrezer

In-Universe name?
What is the in-universe name for the new Jedi? It would be silly to have it as "New Jedi Order" because how long will it stay "new". Any ideas? Eyrezer Considering the Old Jedi Order lasted for over a thousand generations, I think that the one Luke has forged can be considered 'New' for quite some time... (Ulicus 22:46, 21 May 2006 (UTC))
 * The New Republic didn't seem to mind the term. --SparqMan 09:26, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * The New Republic is also referred to in-universe as just "the Republic" though. Eyrezer 01:32, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * The New Republic also said that it would become a New Republic in fact as well as name, and we all know how that turned out. However, Luke did call themselves a "new Jedi order" during his speech to the Jedi on Zonama Sekot after the Yuuzhan Vong War. -- SFH 01:36, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * If the capitalisation is correct, then the proper noun doesn't include new. Eyrezer 06:12, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Influence of Ossus
I found a note in Great Jedi Library very interesting regarding the linfuence of the library on Ossus on Skywalker's new order. What elements of the old "purer" order did he adopt versus the more bureacratic methods of the ultimate Old Republic order? --SparqMan 09:28, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think that comment in the Great Jedi Library is accurate, actually. For one, it's far too simplistic a statement. I've edited it accordingly, removing blatant POV terms such as "pure" and "worn out" QuentinGeorge 01:41, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * To answer your question, however, the state of the Order in the Clone Wars is the result of a gradual change that began around the time of the Sith War - around the time it officially adopted Odan-Urr's Jedi code, which would lead to the directive for Jedi to eschew material possession, attachment and excessive emotion. After the Great Sith War, the Jedi Temple was constructed; by the time of the Cleansing of the Nine Houses, the council had been formed; by the Jedi Civil War, marriage and the training of adults was beginning to be frowned upon, in the next centuries, centralization continued, and taking of simultaneous multiple apprentices were forbidden, and the Ruusan Reformation did away with the last vestiges of any of these earlier loopholes, and closes most of the remaining offworld academies (with the exception of Kamparas) - QuentinGeorge 01:52, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Mhm, I'm aware of what the "Coruscant Order" was like, but do we know of any old traditions/practices that Luke brought into his "Yavin IV Order" aside from allowing the things the late form Council forbade? --SparqMan 04:02, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * That's the thing. I don't think there's the connection there that some people think. Hell, by the Dark Nest Crisis, Luke has even reverted to one master/one padawan and Youngling clan style trainings. QuentinGeorge 06:18, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Guys, sorry for the POV. It seems I was thinking of Mace Windu at the moment... But Luke was influenced by the old order. In Dark Empire, he is seen reading all the ancient books. He was also aware of the teachings of the newer order, from Chu'unthor, but did away with the stupidities that had led to the Jedi's downfall, like the marriage rule and all the restrictive crap. --Master Starkeiller 13:09, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Yuuzhan Vong War
At the end of the war there was about sixty Jedi left...if you don't believe me count the Jedi at the end of The Unifying Force. User:RushinSundaws
 * Just because the author writes a list of Jedi attending a meeting doesn't mean it is an exclusive list... Eyrezer 22:37, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

A Thought on Some Students
Wouldn't be safe to say that Valin Horn, Doran Tainer and Sannah are Jedi Knights now seeing how they are in their late twenties. User:RushinSundaws 9:44, 18 February 2006
 * I think it's best to leave them where they are, rather than to extrapolate where they will eventually be. To the best of our knowledge they are students only. Eyrezer 01:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I moved Doran Tainer to Jedi Knight after reading Betrayal. Also, I feel we should move the Horns to Knightsa as well after the scene with Luke and Corran on Corellia. This is my first time editing an article, so if there are any disagreements feel free to change it back and sorry if I have broken any ettiquete. I hope to try to pick it up as quickly as possible. User:Serfious 9:41, 04 June 2006

Pictures over text
The pictures have been placed over the list of Jedi in the New Jedi Order.Is someone going to change this?- DarthBenjy 22:24, 11 April 2006

In fact the whole species and affiliated Spacecraft sections have been put in the wrong place.-DarthBenjy 22:47, 11 April 2006

Roster of the Jedi Order
Hm. Star Wars: Legacy presents a bit of a problem here. This roster marks those who are deceased as of Betrayal, but now includes Legacy Jedi. If we extend the "death date", then that would mean pretty much ever Jedi on the list would be considered deceased as of 140 ABY. If we don't, it implies the Legacy Jedi are around as of Betrayal - Kwenn 18:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point but they are of the same order, so how to fix it is the question? Someone will have to look into this. User:RushinSundaws 1:37, 7 June 2006
 * I think the Jedi from the Legacy comics should be considered a different order. They appear to not support a faction and they are fractured into two groups.  The NJO has almost always been linked to a faction and cause.  As of right now, we do not know what these new Jedi stand for in the Galaxy.  It will also help with keeping this section clean.  We can't expect to keep up when there is a 100 year gap in the canon.  Stinkywookie 18:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * But where does this fracture begin? If there's not a formal shift, it might make things messy for us - Kwenn 18:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point, but if we did that shouldn't we split the old order and the older order, meaning Jedi from 20,000 BBY to 3,951 BBY and then again to 3,951 BBY to 1,000 BBY or 19 BBY into entirely different orders? There is a paradox here and a cunumdrum, how odd! User:RushinSundaws 1:53, 7 June 2006
 * Agreed. I just posted a question about the timing of the events of Legacy that set up the era.  Like when did the massacre of Ossus occur?  When did Empire take over again?  The LOTF books may end with this.  Stinkywookie 18:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we should separate these new guys out into a separate sub-section. Have two lists. A also think that when there is more info they should be made onto a separat page as Stinkywookie suggests, just perhaps not yet. --Eyrezer 21:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok...well I felt this was made clear in Legacy#0. The last heir of the Skywalker legacy is Cade. That means he is the last of their bloodline!

Differences in New and Old Orders
I think this should definately be discussed, especially the topic of Jedi marriage. In the Old Order, marriage was forbidden, as they believed (as everyone here knows) that passions could exist within even a good marriage; passions that of course can lead to the Dark Side like any strong emotions. This was a VERY big issue of the Old Order; many of the original Jedi would refer to love as either "forbidden" or "beneath them." It was even the premise of AotC, and in some way for RotS. However, when Luke Skywalker becomes a Jedi in his New Order, no mention of "forbidden love and passions" is even thought of; he goes about looking for a wife (which he eventually finds in Mara Jade) as if he's no different then any other regular guy. Does anyone else see that this is a BIG issue for the Old Order that was...a non-issue for the New?? Why is it not mentioned or talked about?? I've always wondered about this, and I think it should DEFINATELY be discussed.

Apparently love and other passions aren't as dangerous as they thought...or is it?? It obviously wasn't for Luke...it's confusing and someone needs to discuss it, especially here, lol.--Promus Kaa 03:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It The NJO was established in 1994 or '95 with the Jedi Academy Trilogy. It wasn't commonly known that Jedi relationships were forbidden until the prequel trilogy's release.  It could be explained in-universe by saying that Yoda/Obi wan never told Luke this little detail about the Old Jedi Order, although that is frankly hard to believe.
 * The real-life reason New Jedi could marry is the same reason that the chosen one didn't actually destroy the Sith. The Jedi academy trilogy, like dark empire, were not seriously considered by Lucas who "...[doesn't] read that [EU] stuff," when he wrote the prequels.  Leaving EU writers to attempt and clean up the mess.

Death in the Roster

 * I propose removing the dead symbol from everyone in the roster, otherwise soon the majority would bear the symbol. In theory, it is safe to assume that almost everyone in the list (except Legacy comic characters) should be dead by 130 ABY. Darth Kevinmhk 11:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Human members of the roster who were born during the Rise of the Empire era or the early Rebellion era must be dead by 130 ABY. That includes Leia Organa Solo.  The dagger symbol indicates that the time of death was confirmed.  Luke Skywalker is a special case.  Leia's death is still unconfirmed.  It is unknown whether it is Luke or Leia who dies first.  As a Wookiee (Wookiees can live for centuries), Lowbacca is likely to be alive in 130 ABY. Tedius Zanarukando 23:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Councils
Weren't there more Jedi Councils? Jedi Wolf 7:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not for the new jedi order, the old republic had several, four infact Jedi Dude 23:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggested Merge
I'm curious, is it called the New Jedi Order for our use, since it seems that they are not called the New Jedi Order in Bloodlines and just called the Jedi Order. If this is so, I suggest we should merge this page with that of the Jedi page and just add an additional set to it. RushinSundaws 19:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sometimes they do call themselves the New Jedi Order, but the main reason is that they are too different... from structure, policy, view of the Force, almost everything is different with the old. Darth Kevinmhk 15:02, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually in Bloodlines, they've nearly copied the old order in every way. The Masters council is just the High Council, and Human apprentices wear hair braids.  But they are very different in one aspect, family's.  Again this return to whether we should seperate the old order from the older order. RushinSundaws 15:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The Lone Ranger?
Isn't that title out of place? The name refers to something definitely not in-universe... not to mention it sounds sort of silly. --JMM 06:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah..."Last of the Old, First of the New" would be better, I think. QuentinGeorge 06:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I wrote that part of the article originally. Go ahead and change it. QuentinGeorge's suggestion sounds good. --Eyrezer 03:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Ithorian Jedi
Its says one of the species represented in the order was Ithorian, but I can find no such Ithorian Jedi, except for Roron Corobb. Roron Corobb 22:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The Ithorian is based on a line in one of the New Jedi Order Sourcebook, stating that the Order gathered new recruits from different planets, blah, blah, Ithor, etc. The Ithorian hasn't been identified. I think I mentioned that further up the talk page in the species section. You might want to check it though. I remember having another look and it may not have been that clear cut. --Eyrezer 02:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The Battlemaster question
I was reading on Learning and teaching the ways of the Force, second paragraph, that Kam Solusar taught students lightsaber combet before the before the more well known Kyle Katarn. Does this mean in the early days of the order, Kam was the Battlemaster? Xepeyon 16:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Controversy Section
How about making a section to discuss the controversy and criticism around the New Jedi Order?  Expansionary Fleet Commander Mitth'raw'nuruodo  Discuss 15:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Great idea. Go for it! --Eyrezer 04:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Luke's dead?!?!
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Where does it say that he died?--Dylankidwell 03:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The time and place of Luke's death whas not been revealed. All that is known is that he appears as a Force Ghost in the Legacy comics set 140 ABY. Don't worry, this isn't a spoiler for the Legacy of the Force series. --Eyrezer 04:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That we know of TIEPilot051999 23:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)