Talk:Ben Skywalker

Headline text
"A theory has developed among some Star Wars fans that Ben Skywalker's biological father may in fact be Luke's nephew Anakin Solo, who was training as an Apprentice with Luke and Mara at the time, and would have been sixteen at the time of his conception. This is based on a postmodernist interpretation of the novel Balance Point, rather than any clearly explicit indicators in the text: it can (as of this writing) be regarded only as a fan theory." Um. What? --SparqMan 05:28, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * That's one of Thrawn McEwok's crank theories from the TFN forums. (But then again, he once seriously proposed that Dooku = Jorus C'Baoth.) QuentinGeorge 06:02, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I object to the term "crank theory", QG. Never mind, though. It's all fun, games and postmodernism... McEwok 19:06, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how a postmodern reading of Balance Point can produce that analysis. Care to link to your theory? Fan theory, regardless of its declared philosophical base, is just that: fanon. --SparqMan 21:42, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * There's no full version of the theory up yet, though this thread contains some of it. Basically, the hypothesis combines (1.) the explicit characterization of Mara and Anakin as trying to help each other through the crisis with: (2.) Campbellian concepts like the "Encounter with the Goddess" and the uncertain/mysterious parentage of heroes; (3.) apparent disjunctures between narrative POV and deeper reality (for instance in the scene where Mara detects Ben for the fist time); and (4.) the wider context that there are places in the NJO text when we seem to be expected to read against the text (for instance, the moral ambiguity injected in the Coda of The Unifying Force by the use of phrases like 'new order' and 'final solution' to describe what the Alliance victors are trying to achieve). --McEwok 20:07, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * yeah and luke and darth bane were friends forever pah lease i mean come on that a load of (insert any cuss word here) i mean thats not possible.....is it? kind o creepy

Character template?
Do the later NJO books and the Dark Nest trilogy provide enough of a physical description of Ben to add a character template to his page? --Ace_ETP 23:14, 13 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * I suspect they do - from what I remember, he's reddish-blond, with grey eyes I think, and maybe freckles? --McEwok 00:24, 14 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * yup pretty much baisically combine luke and mara who do u get huh? <**>

Eye Color

 * I've been wondering, should we put Ben's eye color as grey or blue? Cause in NJO, his eyes are grey, but in the Dark Nest Trilogy they are blue! So which one should we put? Divinity 06:24, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Gray = Blue. Gray eyes are just a type of blue.QuentinGeorge 06:32, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess it's settled on blue then. Divinity 06:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * well look at the time periods i mean people's eyes do change color mine went from green to hazel to an almost brown in like two months( my personal opinion would be blue cause didn't anakin and luke have blue eyes)

Homeworld

 * If I recall, he wasn't born on Coruscant, and since it was a wasteland for much of his early life it can hardly be his homeworld. Where was he born? Anyone know? QuentinGeorge 06:42, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, Anakin Solo wasn't born on Coruscant, and didn't live there for the begining of his life, yet it was still considered his homeworld. But perhaps we should consider Ossus his homeworld? -- SFH 14:48, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Found it. He was born on the Errant Venture. -- SFH 15:09, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't even read Dark Nest and I was also surprised to see his homeworld listed as Coruscant instead of Ossuss. But I guess it's up to the readers to reach a consensus...what should the box read as his homeworld? --Ace_ETP 22:13, 27 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * isn't Errant Venture a ship (i have no idea) well idon't consider the place u were born your "home" any thing i think it's where you spent most of your life. trust me in twelve years i moved 8 or 9 times i have no idea what to call my home town!!

Image
We REALLY need to replace that main image. Isn't Ben 13 or nearing 13 by now? anyone have a more grown picture of him? Rod
 * We could use the one from his appearance in The Lost Lightsaber, except that's not a canon story...&mdash; Silly Dan 02:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I say use the Lost Lightsaber pic Eyrezer 08:05, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well...I've tested it. It looks good, and does show him around Legacy age. I'm still concerned about it's canonicity though... QuentinGeorge 08:19, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd be up for changing his hair color to red if no one has a problem with it. The precedent's already been set with Rokur Gepta's robes. CooperTFN 08:35, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I like that idea. Go ahead and make a test run, and show it here first. QuentinGeorge 08:37, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The picture certainly looks good in the infobox, canonical or not. I'm not big on changing the hair color however, it has been said to have a red-gold hue (in some book I can't remember right now). I guess The Dark Nest trilogy overrides that though, since Ben was explicitly mentioned to have red hair. But maybe the light is playing a trick on his hair in the picture and it looks fairer than it would normally :) --Tinwe 14:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * How's this look? I was gonna check before replacing it, but it seemed dumb to create a whole new file when the old one could always be restored if need be. CooperTFN 05:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think that it was in The Unseen Queen that mentioned he had reddish gold hair. Also, it may just tan out when he gets older. i have a friend with red hair, yet you could swear he was blonde. -- SFH 05:24, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Legacy of the Force
So what happens to Ben after Jacen left him on the asteroid ?
 * We don't know yet, as that's all that has been published so far. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 01:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The fourth paragraph is way too lengthy, even for a wikia. (If I have time &mdash; after finals perhaps &mdash; I'll tighten up the wording, but a collaborative effort would be better :)). We could cut down the summary of Betrayal over by half, considering that there are eight more books that'll be out.  The New Jedi Order series was more than nine books, and yet, we managed to keep it of reasonable length for Jacen Solo's article (considering the amount of books and his prominent role). &mdash;Mir  len  21:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you think that Ben aned Jacen have a Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship or a Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan relationship? JainaSolo32 00:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * personally i think Quigon/Obi-wan cause Ben is too obidient for it to be like anakin and Obi-wan plus i doubt Ben sees Jacen as a father when he already has one and jacen is his cousin.The Ten 02:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Quotes
Aren't there any quotes from NJO, Dark Nest, or Legacy of the Force books that describe him?
 * Agreed. We need quotes to show what kind of a person Ben is &mdash; his character, his talents, his reputation, etc. Although, to be fair, there isn't a whole lot of the good quotes for Ben from NJO. &mdash;Mir  len  14:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe in the Dark Nest Trilogy or in Betrayal, because his role in these books has expanded &mdash; User:JainaSolo32
 * The quotes look good, but I didn't see any that were actually said by Ben himself...--70.171.192.249 03:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect/unclear statement?
As I understand it this sentence is incorrect: "While Jacen fell further to the dark side, Ben was shocked as Jacen tortured and killed the bounty hunter Ailyn Habuur while searching for a bounty." Unless I'm missing something to me this sentence basically says that Jacen was on a bounty hunt and tortured and killed Ailyn Habuur, which is incorrect. I think this is simply a case of poor sentence structure but I believe it should be changed to "While Jacen fell further to the dark side, Ben was shocked as Jacen tortured and killed the bounty hunter Ailyn Habuur during an interrogation." If no one objects I'll go ahead and change it. -Jadden Sinn

Kol's grandfather
YES!! I knew he was Cade's great grandfather! So who do you think his wife will be? I think it's going to be Corrans dauter
 * "Dauter"? The spelling gods shall smite you soon... Cutch 06:11, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Doesn't the family tree only say roughly two generations later? Anyway, I say that he won't get married and have kids and instead he'll get himself cloned just like Jango did. Heck, we can have TWO generations of clones ^^ Lalala la 03:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

OOPS! I did spell it wrong my mistake.

Now we do know that he is Kol grandfather because Kol Skywalker carries the Skywalker name and it is for certain that Ben does not and will not have any siblings because Mara died. Darth Matas 22:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * How does that work? Only until Luke Skywalker has no more children, is Ben the last Skywalker.  Just because Mara is dead doesn't mean that there's no more Luke babies.  Even a Jedi Grand Master needs some loving.


 * Man.... looking at all the Skywalker's... talk about one dumb sorry ass family.

training armor
The behind the scenes says his training armor looks like vondun crab armor...source please.
 * Tempest. When he spars with Luke. Lonnyd 21:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Darth Krayt
Some believe he is Darth Krayt? Where's the basis for that? - 03:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC) In Legacy 7, Krayt says that he should have done away with the Skywalkers when he had the chance, which leads me to believe he is not Ben. Micah Giett 16:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC) but vader believed that his was no longer a skywalker, just vader Camar skywalker 17:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Just wild speculation probably. Removed. --Azizlight 03:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading a lot of speculation that he was to become Darth Krayt. I personally thought it was a stupid idea because the main character of Star Wars: Legacy is Cade Skywalker - meaning that the Skywalker dynasty was still strong and not dead if Ben was the last one. 216.191.40.149 20:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Who changed his hair color?
ALL RIGHT.... WHO DID IT?!! It was better as red!
 * It's supposed to be blond because that's what colour it was in the comic the picture is from. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 12:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

But the description says red. Besidse it was discussed above and changed to look like him.
 * I still don't get people's problem with the image. I've known many red-haired people through the course of my life, and a lot of them start off being blond then their hair colour changes later in life. That could easily be what happened here. Either way, the red-haired Ben Skywalker is a fan-modified image and so we won't be using it. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 16:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually the pic was approved for use a while ago. Darth Byss 22:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Please change it back! his hair on the lotf cover isn't red Sorry to resurrect this seemingly endless discussion, but why is his hair 'pale red-gold'? I know his hair is described as 'pale red-gold' in Rebirth, but that's in Luke's vision of the future which is, as we know, always in motion. From The Joiner King onwards its described only as "red". And in Sacrifice it's even a plot point! I know that the pictures we have aren't great, but we only have two canon pictures and the one on the front cover of Fury isn't lit well enough to tell what his hair colour is. I guess that I figure numerous and repeated references to his hair being red over the most recent nine books - and EVERY book that makes any reference to his hair colour after infancy calling it red (or even flame-red or bright red) - should trump one picture of Ben at a distance at his mother's funeral and one vision of the future. Shouldn't it be changed back to red? Or at least red-gold? (Though since Betrayal, page 433, specifically contrasts Ben's hair with blond fake!Ben's - describing the two as not alike, I'm inclined to stick with actual red rather than anything closer to blond). And...I've probably made my case now, so I'll stop! :) becca 23:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How are we supposed to do that? Where do we get an official SW image that has his hair a shade of red? -Fnlayson 02:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Odds are Ben will get a LOTF cover, so we will get a red-haired canon image then. QuentinGeorge 03:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh God. Don't people check consensus tracks anymore? It was decided that alterations to the color (besides brightness/contrast/saturations) were fanon and not to be used. Such is the way of Jolee Bindo as well. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 03:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * But isn't The Lost Lightsaber itself fanon? C3PO the Dragon Slayer 20:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's non-canon from SW Tales. Check the apperances. -Fnlayson 00:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately that cover then contradicts the actual text of multiple books (including Betrayal) where it is always mentioned that he has red hair. I would think that would override the covers. The old altered images are more accurate to what the books say. Leoroc 22:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The lighting is not good enough in the Fury cover to make that statement. His hair could be a light red, i.e. reddish blond.  This has been discussed above already, so I'll stop there.. -Fnlayson 18:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone's tried to compromise I guess. :) Feel free to change it to red, as long as you source it (which it seems you will have no problem doing). QuentinGeorge 23:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've done so and sourced it to Betrayal since I'm new at this and there was already code for Betrayal in the article and I figure it doesn't matter which of the 9 books I source it too?  Please let me know if I've made a wiki faux-pass...  becca 23:54, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay - someones changed it back to pale red-gold. I'd like to re-amend it as I think that's inaccurate but I don't want to start a turf war and I'm uncertain of the etiquette here.  I think I've done a good job in laying out - above - why red fits better than 'pale red-gold'.  Is there a way we can vote on this?  Would the person who changed it care to discuss the matter with me?  There's even further evidence against the canonicity of the new Ben at Mara's funeral picture as the artist admits here that he sourced his hair-colouring from this page when he saw the non-canon lost-lightsaber pictures.  The link is here: http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/26315648/p16   So...if no one posts here to contest the issue, I'm assuming it's okay if I change it back?  88.108.179.247 00:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait... what?
In the middle of the part of the article goes a quote "Hi Mom, Dad. For my fourteenth birthday I killed a little girl." In the middle of that part of the article. Umm... what? The article goes on to explain the quote. The position of this quote it confusing, and should be moved down a little bit.-- A concerned Guest.
 * Well that'd require splitting the following paragraph. I clarified on the 2nd line of the quote, that it was a potential reply.  Ben is speaking to himself there. -Fnlayson 01:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

He is Krayt!
I just read ben had yuuhzan vong armour like krayt. he has to be him!


 * That does not mean a thing!

Wait... I'm Confused
Aren't Jedi NOT ALLOWED to have kids??? Or did Luke delete the general rule because of his dad?
 * The no attachment rule was an old Jedi Order thing not the New Jedi Order. This is nothing new.. -Fnlayson 13:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Picture

 * Woohoo! Ben will be on the cover of Fury so we'll finally get a real picture! QuentinGeorge 03:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The new picture of Ben is awesome, that is, if they don't decide to change the cover. It's certainly better than the non-canon blond version of Ben. I just hope that they have a cover with Jaina Solo on it.--Jedi Kasra 03:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Allow me to add to the collective "WOOHOOS!" I quite LIKE this depiction! Which is surprising considering that it's a LotF cover and not Japanese :) He looks... well, not at all redheaded, but I'll let it slide. (Ulicus 10:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC))
 * It's just the lighting in the picture, that's the reason he doesn't look like a redhead.--Jedi Kasra 11:27, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll add to the woohoos as well. I like that it looks like both Anakin and Luke. And not some '80s child model like all the other kids looked.... Israi 15:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Woohoo from me too. I like the way they made him look, and we get a pic of Inferno. Telos 06:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Darth Possibly
If Ben does become Darth Caedus's Sith apprentice will he to be receiving a Darth name.-KickAssJedi 20:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A lot of ifs there. I believe he'd have to become a Dark Lord, not apprentice to get a Sith name.  Don't think he'll be an apprentice though..  -Fnlayson 21:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Image choice
Sorry, Culator, it's nothing personal at all. I just totally disagree with you on the Fury picture, so I'm going to ask for community opinion. The picture DC uploaded is great. It's high res and was the first look we had at Ben, from the cover of the paperback version of Fury. However, now the cover of the Audio book is also available and from it, I was able to crop the image to completely show his hands and the emitter of his lightsaber. DC's objection to the image was that is was slightly smaller (No longer a valid objection), and the color was slightly different. It's not really different, just a little brighter/higher contrasted. Here are the two images for perusal:

Which one better displays the subject?

Paperback

 * Darth Culator (Talk) 01:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Per Culator's comments below. Lord Hydronium 01:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Ozzel 06:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Grunny 10:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Per the reasoning below. Greyman ( Paratus ) 18:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Jaina Leia Mara 16:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Unit 8311 18:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Audio book

 * 1) JMAS 00:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * The width of the actual file wasn't the issue, the content is actually ~10% smaller (Ben's head is 274 pixels from ear-to-ear in the audiobook version and 307 pixels in the paperback). Cropping it further to the right just makes it worse, since the face is even further off center that way. And just scaling it up doesn't improve the quality. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 01:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

lost lightsaber is not canon
the lost lightsaber is not canon. lukes lightsaber and hand were retrieved by vader after the duel on cloud city. for years, it was stored in the emperor's private stash on wayland until the thrawn crisis. it was given to mara jade at the end of the last command. mara used the lightsaber until she died. apparently this is not common knowledge.

My point is that it should be changed from this page from ambiguously canon to NOT CANON.GrandAdmiral 15:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Uh yea. What do you think the Star Wars ambiguous canon tags are for? -Fnlayson 00:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Per Fnlayson, it's clearly stated in the article. If you missed it, right before the part about the lost lightsaber there is this big sign that says "Warning: The following section is based on information which ONLY appears in a Star Wars Tales #1–#20 story that has not been referenced elsewhere; therefore, its level of canonicity is ambiguous." And also, you're opinion on what is canon and what is not, well, it's not really relevant. Greyman ( Paratus ) 17:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The placement of Tales (like here) and other Ambiguous canon content is being voted on at Forum:Canon/noncanon Consensus track. -Fnlayson 18:08, 29 October 2007 (UTC)