Talk:Darksaber/Legends

Deletion
This page shouldn't be deleted. Here's why: Palpatine's lightsaber, Anakin Skywalker's first lightsaber, Anakin Skywalker's second lightsaber. Moon Demon 18:20, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please go and discuss it at the actual and more relevant TC thread instead of here.  CC7567  (talk) 20:14, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Picture
I've used a picture that I think fits more with the article. Hope it's okay for all of us. Alexrd 02:06, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

A real name
Okay, according to this IGN interview with Dave Filoni, George Lucas named this the Darksaber, so with that in mind I'm going to go ahead and rename the article accordingly. Moon Demon 05:45, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well apparently George also said that only lightsabers can block lightsabers. Which is further proof that the Right Hand of Star Wars doesn't know what the Left Hand is doing. This is one of the cases where I'd say just cause George said its so, doesn't make it so. Unless its mentioned in the show, or appears in an official medium about the show/character/saber i'd not consider it official. In fact this could probably be summed up in a few sentences under the main lightsaber page or Lightsaber crystals. "Crystals that produce black blades also existed, such as the one used by Death Watch member Pre Vizsla during the Clone Wars." or something to that effect.--Kahn Iceay 02:50, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The really bizarre part is that it was Lucas himself who insisted that there be a non-lightsaber melee weapon that could block lightsabers in ROTS, hence the electrostaff. &mdash; Red XIV (talk) 05:06, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * there is another weapon that can block lightsabers it's called a vibroblade--God like65 00:00, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, we all know it's bizarre but it's there or anyone to read in black and white. Those are the circumstances that prompted the crew to give him a lightsaber. Moon Demon 05:30, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is Darksaber really a proper noun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it just be a variantion of lightsaber, and just a regular noun? -- Mateo22 Seperatist_leadership.jpg Contact 20:02, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Although yes, Filoni has "named" the Darksaber as a unique weapon and stated that Lucas was the source of it, the word of LucasFilm VIPs other than officials affiliated with the Holocron continuity database, per the canon policy, does not have "clear" canonicity. Since the lightsaber went unnamed in the episode guide, its name still isn't officially confirmed.  CC7567  (talk) 20:07, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Fall of the Old Republic
Which fall? When did the Old Republic fall? Do they mean the invasion by the sith empire? If so, which time? If we can't pinpoint when this event was and link to it, I think we should mention in the article that it's unknown which "fall" dude was talking about. fodigg (talk) | 15:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC) The old republic fell around the time of "The old republic" game if that E3 2009 trailer is correct but until we know for sure it's just speculation-76.21.106.232 00:33, February 7, 2010 (UTC) It might be the Great Galactic War, which did involve the Sith attacking Coruscant and the Jedi Temple.--KrossTransmit on Holonet? 02:59, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's unknown, leaving it unclarified is the way to do it.  CC7567  (talk) 18:45, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I actually have to remove some weasel words from another article now. I just added it too, glad I saw this. &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 19:07, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that would count. Sure, it could be what he was referring to. But by the time of the game it was pretty much a stalemate. I'm actually wondering if they're referring to the original Tales of the Jedi comic books and the hyperspace wars. The original invasion by a "Sith Empire". &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 15:06, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember hearing (from unofficial sources, granted) that "the Fall of the Old Republic" referred to the New Sith Wars, and how the Republic was almost defeated by the Sith at the war's height, and because it led to the Ruusan Reformations. Keep in mind that the Ruusan Reformations was the retcon which clarified Palpatine's "Republic that has stood for 1,000 years" statement.  So Viszla's "the Fall of the Old Republic" probably means the same time that the Republic was almost destroyed in War and was forced to be re-organized, which a lot of people of the Galactic Republic consider to be a new starting point. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 15:51, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would buy that. Still, until it's confirmed... &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 18:10, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pending a clarification, we ought to have something in the BTS section noting the ambiguity of Viszla's "Old Republic" comment. &mdash; Red XIV (talk) 21:57, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This page is not for speculation.  CC7567  (talk) 07:54, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds
Could one of you masters of multimedia figure out how to add and audio clip (MIME) of the ignition, hum and breakaway sounds. This is the most different sound effect for a light saber since it was originally created. It really needs to be documented here.

Canon-level
Who switched it back to T-canon? It's G-canon because GL designed it. At the very least you could have altered the surrounding sentence to match your edit. It now says "T-canon" but describes G-canon and gives the reason why it's G-canon! &mdash;fodigg (talk) | 15:40, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then switch it back to the correct way. -  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 15:43, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even with the "major edit ongoing" or whatever label on the article? &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 15:51, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * All TCW TV series stuff is T-canon. It's precisely because it has George Lucas involvement that T-canon was invented to begin with. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:15, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * T-canon covers EVERYTHING in the cartoon, but this item was specifically designed by GL, which makes it G-canon. Anything originating with GL is G-canon, no matter if its source would normally be T, C, or S-canon. &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 19:25, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * "G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public)." Hence, Darksaber is concidered G-canon and not T-canon. Marko14126 23:26, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Where does it say he specifically designed it? I thought he only pitched the idea so that Vizsla could duel Obi Wan in a sabre duel, and explained why vibros couldn't work. If it is therefore G-canon, then why not switch Darth Bane to G-canon also because Lucas came up with an ancient Sith Lord named Darth Bane. Gratulor - User Page 20:56, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * The source is listed in the article . From that interview: "Filoni: The Darksaber. That was a big deal. And again that was an idea that came straight from George. Originally what Pre Vizsla was carrying was something in the EU called a vibroblade; it's kind of an electric sword. George let me get away with it in the early phases of design and in the early shooting, but when the color came back and he was watching the lightsaber we want to have combating this vibroblade, he said there's no way that can happen; there's no way that a non-lightsaber could block a lightsaber. So he had us do away with the vibroblade in that episode really late in the game, and he created something called the Darksaber, which would be a black-bladed energy saber with a white edge. It has a crackle of electricity; it's kind of like a more ancient version of a lightsaber, and it's inferred in the episode that it's really one of a kind and that Pre Vizsla's ancestors stole it from the Jedi in the days of the Old Republic. So it's got all this neat history attached to it right away, and it sounds different." This seems pretty unambiguous to me. &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 21:03, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I need a name is correct. Regardless of Lucas' involvement, and he is involved with the entire series, the darksaber is T-canon, not G. G-canon is solely his own films. Everything that appears in TCW is T-canon. With that said, that information in the BtS is factually incorrect.  JangFett  (Talk) 00:17, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * JangFett is incorrect. Anything that comes directly from Lucas is G-canon. This overrides other forms of canon where appropriate. This is a case where it is appropriate. &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 15:06, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lucas gave advice and support to The Force Unleashed, but the video game is still c-canon. You have to understand the different levels of canon.  JangFett  (Talk) 21:09, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * We are not talking about advice and support. We are talking about something that, according to the creators, came entirely and directly from Lucas. I understand canon just fine. &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 15:13, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * You have to understand that TCW is T-canon, NOT G-canon. Regardless of Lucas' involvement, it's still T-canon.  JangFett  (Talk) 17:17, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless someone like George Lucas or Leland Chee say that the Darksaber ist G-canon, any statment in the article is speculation or original research. Gulomi Jomesh 17:22, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gulomi is correct. TCW is T-canon, not G-canon. LFL did not say anything regarding this Darksaber's canon level. Anything that appears in TCW is T-canon, regardless if Lucas is involved or not. G-canon is his films, and that's confirmed by Lucas. The darksaber is not confirmed to be G-canon. Unless said directly by Lucas or Chee, this discussion is over for now. Any further discussion of the darksaber is G-canon will be regarded as speculation or OR.  JangFett  (Talk) 17:26, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * All in TCW is T-canon, until stated otherwise (i.e. by Leland Chee). Get over it, or get lost. 17:54, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll accept that it might qualify as original research. In that I read the following paragraph on the canon article:


 * G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas … . Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon.


 * &mdash;and concluded that this qualifies. It is an "element" of an "other source". Therefore, that element&mdash;the darksaber&mdash;is G-canon while the rest of the episode/series remains T-canon. I think you're using inconsistent criteria if, for this particular item, we require explicit confirmation that such an element is G-canon. If explicit confirmation is required, then the above paragraph should be so clarified for non-film sources. Oh, and Tyber (Jaden Kenobi), that's pretty uncalled for. I'm on-topic, I'm discussing the matter in good faith, and I posted my objections here without editing the article to prevent an edit-war. &mdash;fodigg  (talk) |
 * You may want to read the canon article first. GL may have suggested the weapon, because he isn't aware of his own canon, but that does not qualify it as G-canon by default. Until it is not explicitly stated by Leland Chee, that it is G-canon, everyone has to treat it as T-canon, regardless what you call evidence. That's it. 19:14, March 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Tyber, I just quoted the canon article. I've read it. And further up this chain I have a quote stating that the Darksaber came entirely from GL. What am I missing? Where does it state we require explicit confirmation? &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 19:34, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm with Fodigg on this; according to the article on canon and what was stated by Dave Filoni, the darksaber should be a considered G-canon element. He's backed this up pretty strongly. Moon Demon 20:35, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless it's said directly by Lucas or Chee, the darksaber, like all other TCW appearances, are regarded as T-canon. Your assumption is strictly speculation/OR.  JangFett  (Talk) 18:01, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that it's not assumption: Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon. It has been repeatedly quoted here and elsewhere that the darksaber originated with Lucas. Moon Demon 18:24, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it considered Original Research to locate a source that states the item was entirely Lucas' invention? Isn't that just little "research" as locating a source that quotes Lucas or Chee as explicitly saying the item is G-canon? Should the definition of G-canon be altered to require explicit confirmation from Lucas or Chee every time? &mdash;fodigg  (talk) | 18:28, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, that is the definition of G-canon. 23:46, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Incorrect, Tyber. According to this very wiki, the definition of G-canon is what I printed above, taken directly from the article on canon. By that definition, the darksaber falls into the category of G-canon because it was invented by George Lucas and provided by him to the creators of TCW. Moon Demon 00:04, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seeing as how there's no need to have any kind of canon letter in the article in the first place, I suggest everyone kindly KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF. (That's not really a suggestion.) Drop it. It's canon, and that's all we need to know for the article; this isn't the place to argue what letter it has in a database no one here looks at. - Lord Hydronium 06:13, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Semi-confirmed, we now know who swiped it
"This lightsaber was stolen from your Jedi Temple by my ancestors" -Pre Vizsla

Have you seen the Deceived trailer for Star Wars: The Old Republic? That Red haired woman in the armor? Her name is Shae Vizla. It seems pretty obvious that she is the one who took it, sharing his name, and shown attacking the Jedi Temple... See the trailer for her in the temple, here is where I found her name: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100609_002-0

"...as she joined the Sith fleet in an ambitious assault during the Sacking of Coruscant. Known as Shae Vizla..."

Is this good enough to make it canon? If so... (- -) 05:33, June 10, 2010 (UTC)