Talk:Meetra Surik

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Note
The lengthy discussions previously here have been put in the third archive. If you want to start a discussion, you may want to check one of the previous archives to see if your points have been raised already. If you want to start up a discussion complaining about the Exile being female: please do so on another site, unless you can find a genuinely new point and can do so without insulting other editors or the Lucasfilm people responsible for setting the female lightside Exile as canon. Thanks. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 15:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Padawan vs. Knight
See also: archive discussion

I admit it can be rather ambiguous what the Exile's exact status was prior to the Mandalorian Wars, but the Disciple's background confession speaks quite a bit. Key bits boldened. Bear with it, if you would:

"If you are not chosen by a master when you have come of age, however... then the path of the Jedi is denied you. I met you on Dantooine, long ago, briefly. You taught us the ways of the Force, how to hear it sing within others, within the life around Dantooine. It is difficult to explain the difference between you and Master Vrook, but I think it is because he was knowledgeable, but not a leader, not a mentor. You were different &mdash; we could all feel it. And I knew that if I were to have a Master, I would want it to be you. And then you went to war. Many Jedi went to war, and the Jedi Masters proclaimed that you were Jedi no longer. Atris, the mistress of the archives, was first among them. I knew at that moment, that if you would no longer be a Jedi, then you must be correct. I realized I did not want to be a Jedi &mdash; instead, I wished to follow your path. And in any event, there was no one to train me, even if I wished it. They all went to war, as I grew past the age of acceptance."

- Mical

Disciple never mentions that Exile couldn't be his master because the Exile was still a Padawan; he says it was because the Exile and (according to him) anyone who could have been his master left to fight. He claims that the Exile was among those who taught prospective Jedi the ways of the Force, and he even compares the Exile to Master Vrook, as one comparing potential mentors. Also remember that taking a Padawan is not a prerequisite for being a Jedi Knight; it is a prerequisite for being a Jedi Master (I think). In any event, search the game. There is no mention of the Exile still being a Padawan when leaving for the wars, there is no mention of her master or master's reaction to her leaving, none of her not completing the trials, or anything of the sort. There is her affinity to forming Force Bonds with masters, but this only proves that she had already had several teachers before leaving, similar to the way Revan learned from many. For now, I'll put the old edits back up. -BaronGrackle 22:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I was also under the assumption that the Exile never acsended to the rank of Jedi Knight. For one reason, because the Exile is never reguarded or acknowledged as Jedi Knight; either in any of her personal coversations, or any third party talks about her. And this discussion that takes place between a male-Exile and Brianna also seems interesting to contemplate:
 * Agreed; if the Exile had actually been just a Padawan, they would've made a mention to it somewhere in the game. If the Exile had been a Padawan she also would've been wearing Padawan robes at her trial, not full Jedi robes. Then there's that snarky comment the Exile makes to Kreia on Peragus about not treating like a Padawan. So people need to stop messing with the article; she's a Jedi Knight until someone can get an official source that says otherwise, period. Master Kavar 23:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Then there's that snarky comment the Exile makes to Kreia on Peragus about not treating like a Padawan. What/ Where?! When?!! - Sikon (Vacation) 05:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It does mention in-game that the Exile wa a Padawan. Kreia mentions it at some point. As for the Snarky comment, it could well be that the Exile knows she is above the normal level of a Jedi Padawan and dispises being referred to as one. Who said that a padawan couldn't teach younglings (Which is what Mical most likely was) about the Force. It isn't an impossibility for a Padawan to be able to teach about the Force. Jasca Ducato Sith Council (Sith campaign)[[Image:SOFD.PNG|20px]] 10:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly sure the game never calls the Exile a Padawan, and quite a few times they call her a Jedi Knight. If your certain about your claim, find and present an exact quote of them calling her such, anything else is just supposition. Master Kavar 19:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Who said that a padawan couldn't teach younglings (Which is what Mical most likely was) about the Force. Understand that I mean no sarcasm when I ask: really? Has this ever happened, where a Padawan would give younglings their first introduction to the Force instead of a Knight or a Master? Besides that, if you can remember the generic point when Kreia calls the Exile a Padawan, maybe the rest of us can help find it. Kreia does ramble on throughout the entire game, so it's easy to miss something. That being said... it could be that she just made a remark about when the Exile had been a Padawan, prior to the wars. No way to tell until we find it; it just seems that everything else in the storyline suggests she was already knighted. -BaronGrackle 14:22, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Brianna: "I have thought about what you have said, of my mother, of my bloodline. There is something I would ask of you."
 * Kreia: And so it ends.
 * Brianna: "I want you to teach me the ways of the Force. To become a Jedi Knight like my mother."
 * a PC choice is: "I... am not a Jedi Knight. Ask it of Atris."
 * to which Brianna then replies: "There is no one else I would want to train me. I have seen you in battle, I have seen your heart, and you are what I want to be. It is like a hollow place inside me, but when I am with you, the echo dies."

I just thought this was an interesting conversation to put forth. I know perfectly well that is not considered canon (with a male Exile), but Brianna's views of the Exile - even though he makes the comment that he is no Jedi Knight (either referring to either never officially attaining the rank, or his exile from the Order) - seem to reflect perfectly those held by Mical.

Just wanted to point that out. However, if the canon Exile turns out to be a Jedi Knight, that's fine with me. It would explain her teaching at the Enclave a little better. Though, I must admit, I always assumed Mical was speaking about sparrs and ragtag instructions and not actuall classes taught by a Knight or Master. --Master Dakari 00:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Name and Face
-- Redemption Talk 16:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC) appearance that is canonical? DAWUSS 16:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Does anyone know if a name for her is being considerd, and why does her face have to be obscured? If we were to vote on a face. I think the blond with the Samantha Carter hairstyle looked sexy.
 * Because it wouldn't be considered canon. We don't decide what's canon. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 18:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We can't vote on her face, the public don't decide what names and apperances are giving, thats not canon at all Jedi Dude 18:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We shouldn't have the picture then. It's saying that the Exile was fighting a floating lightsaber at that exact position facing that exact direction. MPK 00:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I was just saying. Does LFL have any intention on giving her a name and an
 * Probably not. Anyways, something like Image:Manyfacesofrevan.jpg would probably be good. -LtNOWIS 00:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we should put a vote for her face... Let's just say the appearance would be conjectural, and as long as we have a note of it somewhere, it should be OK. Heck we have conjectural titles all over the place! Plus, having the face obscured looks awkward IMO DAWUSS 00:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I am against the vote on the face. Perhaps a consensus track so people can vote whether or not to have a face should precede any vote on the actual face. If we remove the image, we must also remove the image of Jaden Korr. I don't think that is the best way to go. Besides, we know from the trial footage of the Exile that at some point she did wear Jedi Knight robes and wielded a cyan lightsaber, so the image is somewhat accurate- although I see your point. Atarumaster88 14:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The many faces thing would be could with a female template in the gender section, however there cannot be a vote for her apperance we do not decide what is canon, its not conjectural having a false picture, not at all. The image is the best we can do and theres already an extensive discussion about the image further up. Jedi Dude 15:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What if we use the Exile in the space suit (at Peragus) as the image? Everything's covered up in that. Face too. DAWUSS 16:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Because "it'd look awkward" and silly. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 16:43, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No more awkward and silly than we already have.
 * Then there's no point in changing it. - Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 16:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * (Points to my post a few lines up)MPK 18:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well if the main page says she is known only by her nickname, then just saying that suggests that at sometime were supposed to know her real name. Otherwise why call the "Jedi Exile" a nickname?
 * Because she is a RPG character whose name is decided by the player.– 20:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If I'm not mistaken I think Leeland CHee said that a name was being condidered. He said this back when he mentiond that they were going to try to make the Exile female. I just can't find the link.
 * Quite the contrary I'm afraid: – 20:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * For those who cannot/do not read the note at the top, please reference the archive. The topic about the picture was covered in great detail.  Here we go again. 21:43, 27 August 2006 (UTC)