Talk:Darth Caedus

Copyvio
What the hell? Who put this copyvio on? -- SFH 15:00, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Potentially Stronger than Luke?
Why was the section "Stronger than Luke?" taken off. There is enough evidence from betrayal and other character's quotes to at least validate the discussion as to how powerful Jacen will ultimately become.
 * It's unecessary speculation (and not very encyclopedic in terms of writing). Wookieepedia is a bit more flexibile on rules in terms of speculation than Wikipedia, since it is a wikia; however, it is still an encyclopedia.  The section you've wrote simply states that because of Jacen's character development (from being someone who refused to use the Force, to someone is deeply embodied in the Unifying Force and does not hesistate to use it for his own means), he is potentially stronger than Luke.  That conclusion can be reached by the reader when reading the facts of Jacen's biography, hence "Let the facts speak for themselves" &mdash; since an enyclopedia is mainly an archive of facts, as opposed to containing what can be or will be. An example of speculation that is acceptable is on Mara's parentage on her article.  Why?  Because that speculation cannot be reached just by reading the facts &mdash; so it is alright to state it in the 'Behind the scenes' sections, where it is approriate.  The speculation about Jacen being stronger than Luke because of his character arc can be read through the Biography, since that section is meant to explain and summarize his storyline and his development as a character. &mdash;Mir  len  11:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * He already admitted he wasn't stronger than Luke, meerly taught differently. DarthMalus 04:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I never thought he was stronger than him now, I just wanted to discuss how 'Betrayal' leaves plenty of room for the discussion as to Jacen's full potential. If he does somehow become a full fledged Sith, He quite possibly could be the strongest Sith Lord ever. TheUnknownKnight
 * Well some have said Luke's son, Ben, is pretty strong himself, and may be the strongest Jedi after Luke. Maybe Jacen is stronger than Ben? Jedi Striker 16:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know how reliable Jacen's visions are, but in Betrayal he has a vision of himself killing Luke in the future. So maybe he will become more powerful, or maybe that's just an altnerate timeline. *Shrug*. Greedo 21:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As mentioned above, this kind of thing isn't encyclopedic. It's impossible to define power in these terms; what makes one character more powerful than another? It's all down to context. For example, Dooku defeated Obi-Wan, so Dooku should be more powerful than him, but since Anakin defeated Dooku, and Obi-Wan defeated Anakin, does that mean Obi-Wan is more powerful than Dooku? You can never properly define it. If Jacen does ever kill Luke, it doesn't automatically mean Jacen is more powerful - Luke could have had an "off" day ;) - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 18:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Legacy Photo
How sure are we that this is Jacen? It could just as easily be Ben Skywalker couldn't it?

Yeah, Ben Skywalker is about 14 by then and he could have changed a lot in appearance. Jacen playing a major role in the book does not always mean he is on the front cover. MyNz 16:37, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) Ben is too young to be the one on the cover. I'd go for Jacen.
 * It's been confirmed that its Jacen on the cover. PS Ben has red hair, not brown. QuentinGeorge 05:13, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * That is weird, he looks younger than 30, in fact he looks younger than his other pictures. And it's not like Ben's hair is vibrant red like Mara's. The picture is in deep shadow. But then again it sure looks more brown than red.
 * Hair colour can change over someones life. My brother's started as blonde but is now brown. Through I haven't heard of red to brown, who says it's not possible? Jacen Solo 22:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * well anyway as interesting as all this is, It is Jacen Solo. So end of? Jedi Dude

Not telling his family
So what exactly is Jacen's reason for not telling his parent's that he is Allana's father? -- SFH 19:05, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I think he would be too ashamed to tell his parents since he didn't marry Tenel Ka legally. Sex outside marriage is a considered a taboo among most Human cultures and probably those in Star Wars. His parents would get upset just as people in the real world would for the same reason. That was the same with Anakin Skywalker when he secretly married Padme without permission from his Jedi superiors.

This would be a black mark on his biography. I notice that his sister and their classmates have all been up to no good recently such as the Dark Nest Crisis and the Swarm War. This shows that nobody is perfect. User:MyNz 19:23 13 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * You're probably right on the upset part at least as far as Leia is concerned. Han probably would have shrugged it off. -- SFH 19:33, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if that's it. Considering the variety of races and sexual practices in the galaxy I would think that extra-marital sex wouldn't be a huge deal.  I would bet it's more to protect his son from potential political rivals as well as outside powers wishing to manipulate him.  Consider the difficult childhood that Jacen/Jaina/Anakin had, seems like once a year some power mad tyrant with a super weapon would decide to either kidnap or try to kill them because of their relations.  So long as Allana is known as just the Hapan heir there would be less threat from an outside source. --Anon80
 * I'm not asking why Jacen and Tenel didn't tell the public at large. What I don't understand is why they didn't tell Han and Leia. Hapan nobles would kill Allana first chance they got, but I would think Han and Leia would go to great lengths to protect their granddaughter. Trusting a member of the Hapan Royal family is a calculated risk; trusting Han and Leia shouldn't even have to be a question. -- SFH 20:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Han and Leia don't have the mental protection that Jacen and Tenel do. WHat I don't understand is why didn't he tell Master Luke about it. Luke would have understood the whole Ben mind blocking thing then. Jacen Solo 22:27, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Mental protection? I don't understand that. And Luke might intellectually understand why Jacen erased Ben's memory of the indicent, but would he accept it, or blind Jacen off from the Force? -- SFH 22:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Luke blind Jacen from the force? Doubtful. Jacen, especially in the last few books, has grown in power. He can do things that even Luke can't. I don't really think that Jacen would fear a reprisal from Luke, seeing as the argument could be made that Jacen is, or could become, the most powerful Jedi in the Order.--Reever19 24, April 2006
 * Mental Protection or resistance, whatever you call it :P And yes, I'm possitive Luke would accept it. His character is one of forgiveness and understanding. Jacen Solo 22:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Luke is also the stronger of the two as well. Since Anakin Solo is dead, Ben Skywalker is the only one with the potential to surpass Luke, and I have no doubt that he will.
 * I think this is distracting away from the fact that we still haven't added that Jacen is a STUD. One night with Tenel Ka and he knocked her up! good man! Darth Balls

"Jasen"
''Timothy Zahn originally intended "Jacen" to be "Jasen", but his editor at Bantam, Betsy Mitchell, suggested changing the "s" to a "c" to make it less 1980s-like. '' Fool editor! The 80's are GOOD! It should have stayed Jasen! :) Thanos6 07:10, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Jacen's Battle Meld
How come Jacen's Battle Meld ability is not mentioned in this article. The first mentioning of this force power I found was within the New Jedi Order book Star by Star. I think the Battle Meld is akin to the Battle Medition but there seems to be some differces. For one, Battle Medition increases the moral of friendly allies and decreases the moral of enemy troops. Battle Meld melds the minds of your allies so that you know their thoughts and feelings, so that you can better comprehend your allies actions and the battle sitations. LordRevan (UTC)

Hello anyone??? Am I that boring? LordRevan 01:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's because it's not 'Jacen's Battle Meld,' it's more of a joint meld between the Jedi. Killik Twilight 19:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, what did the book say about it. I remember in the book, Star by Star (correct me if I'm wrong), it called it a Battle meld. LordRevan 00:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello, anyone??? LordRevan

Hi

~Churro Kradd

I'm pretty sure that it's not mentioned is because anyone can do it. Jacen's just the most efficient at doing it. Darth Balls

Speculation
Now that it is confirmed he is a Sith, could we be seeing a new Darth Traya? I infer this on the title of the new novel and the fact that Kreia once said there must always be a Darth Traya. Could be wrong, but it sounds feasible to me. --Quidon88 21:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I see him more being a new Revan actually. It would had to the parallel created with Canderous posibly spotting a Yuzhan Vong ship.--Petiflo 17:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Kreia was speaking figuratively, I think. It doesn't mean that the Sith in question should be necessarily called Darth Traya. And I would HATE HATE HAET HATE HAT to see any parallels between *cough cough* this and KOTOR. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * From a personal point of view I've felt quite a few, it just seems to have a KOTOR "feel" to it. It does seem possible though I must admit I'd much prefer them to think up an original name, Darth Traya is a so-so name in my view, its neither bad nor particularly good. Jacen deserves something more memorable.

Jacen does not deserve Darth Traya. TRAYA IS A WOMAN'S NAME! Also, how can Jacen have an apprentice if he has not had any master to teach him specifically about the dark side, and about the order of the sith?--70.124.132.176 15:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * becasuse, as Vegere said, Palps and Vader wern't true sith, they were greedy, jand Luke didn't recieve much training to be the Jedi he is, and the path of a Sith and the dark side is easier to follow. And Jacen recieved training from vergere how ever small it was. Jedi Dude
 * I thought it was Lumiya who said that. But anyway, how can we know this is true? We can even doubt now what Vergere said about "There is no Dark Side", maybe there is one and she knew it perfectly but lied to Jacen in order to draw him easily... --Petiflo 16:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No Lumiya and Vergere knew Vader and Sidious were Sith, but to not aquate themselves to cult members as Vader and Sidious, both well known for their violent and oppressive rule, something Jacen was against, and instead wanted to cast the Sith in a more friendly view in effort to appeal to Jacen's misguided view of the force. It's still the same Sith Philosophy, only sugar coated by Vergere and Lumiya in order to seduce Jacen Solo. Odds are Jacen won't remain a Sith, he has too much of a conscience, though it is a possibility. But seeing as Luke is still on the no kill list, and considering he's far more powerful than Jacen, though Jacen has a few cool tricks that Luke may or may not have, but all in all he has too many people who love him. His heart isn't as hard as it should be. It will be interesting to see how it plays out though DarthMalus 14:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * do you think that? i belive that Vergere genrually believed that Vader and Palps were not the way Sith should be, and that her view that Sith aren't all power hungry is possible, i mean how mnay sith lors do we really knoe about? Not many, not many at all. Im hoping Jacen does bring something new to the Sith order, as its becoming a bit predictable if hes simply going to go dark then go light by the end of the series. Jedi Dude
 * I think power corrupts, even a Sith. All of the Sith during the Bane era (for lack of a better term) did not have armies at their command and rule over a galaxy.  Therefore, they kept their greed in check and moved in the shadows.  Once the Sith came out of the shadows and ruled the galaxy, the old power hungry and greedy Sith stereotype came back into control.Stinkywookie 14:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you think that Jacen will suffer the same fate as Anakin Skywalker or will be redeemed before any damage is done? JainaSolo32

He already did some damage, by killing Nelani. - Bub
 * he did that for the greater good, by killng her he saved Luke. Jacen has his reasons but will they be justified in the long run thats the question? Jedi Dude

No, he killed Nelani to save Lumiya. It said in the article, that when Nelani tried to arrest Lumiya, Jacen killed her. Either that or I have my facts mixed up. - Bub

Oh, now I understand. I haven't read Betrayal yet. - Bub


 * It's doubtful that Jacen will be a repeat of Anakin. He will more likely be redeemed before he completely gives himself to the darkside. Technically he's not truly a Sith as he is merely a dark acolyte and has received no training as a Sith. The Sith are representative of all things that are flaws in our nature, they are greedy, selfish, manipulative, murderers, and self destructive. This is the way of the Sith, it is reflective of real life. The excuse that they are doing this for a greater good is just that, an excuse. They need some sort of justification for their guilt to be vanquished. Eventually they finally admit to themselves that they are doing wrong but it no longer matters to them. The power to take one's life and striking fear into those around them is a high they can never have enough of. Complete and total self exhaltation. Evil is never justifiable. Jacen was mistaken and was wrong with what he did. Vergere was also trying to rationalize her dark teachings by saying that good and evil don't exist, thus eliminating the guilt. She was not a true Sith. Merely an acolyte.

I don't beleive that she stated that there was no good or evil. Just that there was no darkside of the force. She believed that the darkside existed internally.


 * Jacen has changed alot during the course of the series. In the Young Jedi Knights books Jacen is indecisive and has the tendency to tell wack jokes and has an affinity for life. In The NJO books his attitude starts to change when he meets Vergere and we see that he loses some of himself during the Yuuzhan Vong War such as adapting a whole new outlook of the force. Now in Betrayal Jacen has become distant, cold and loses his love of life to the point that it creeps Ben and Nelani out, and probably scares them. He also has the tendency to believe what he sees and will do almost anything to stop it even if it means he has to sacrifice the ones he loves. Jacen is just beginning to discover his potential but is going down the wrong path. JainaSolo32

Main image
Does anyone else think the current main image is too dark and obscure? The last default image was much clearer and made Jacen's features easier to discern. I understand that this is the most recent image of Jacen, but it could be included in the Legacy of the Force section... - Breathesgelatin 23:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. There's also the fact that the Betrayal picture is just plain crap... (How does Jacen look in his thirties there? Madness) but... it *is* the most recent image... alas... (195.92.168.176 12:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC))
 * Since when is there a policy of only using the most recent image though? - Breathesgelatin 18:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * i reckon we need to go back to the last photo, many people acroos message boards do not like this photo i have found, and yes the last photo was clearer. Jedi Dude
 * Yeah, I'm just thinking - neither Leia nor Luke have the "most recent" pictures up.... so why should Jacen?(Ulicus 23:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC))
 * I changed the image a bit earlier today, it's a slightly brighter slightly bigger version, which I found in the artist's web page. I think it fits well into him, his most recent picture is a good one, in difference to Luke and Leia. He does look thirty though, different people age different ways. As far as I've seen many 30 year olds who look like that or younger. --Sauron18 16:56 15 June 2006
 * I just cropped off the extra black space on the left side of the image, not because that space was unnecessary, but it stretched the infobox by a wide margin. The image may not be as good as image of Jacen on the Japanese cover of Force Heretic III: Reunion, but I think it fits the Sith infobox we have for him &mdash; the picture is darker (literally and metaphorically), and it fits Jacen's recent portrayal. (And it's true that Luke nor Leia have their most recent image, but then, they were always especial exceptions from the start, weren't they?  After all, they are the untouchable characters, along with Han, of course, that the Star Wars book buisiness aren't allowed to kill, as so commanded by George Lucas). &mdash;Mir  len  23:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Vector Prime kinda blows that theory to hell, right? -- SFH 23:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup. On a random note, I think we need a new [recent] lead quote change as well. &mdash;Mir  len  23:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, how about the one of the philosophy of evil that Luke tells Ben. It's what happened to Jacen after all and it's very ominous. I'll look it up. --Sauron18 19:18, 15 June 2006
 * Alright I put it ;). --Sauron18 19:27, 15 June 2006
 * That would be a good lead in quote to the Legacy section, but the original quote more tells of Jacen's overall character. That is what lead in quotes are supposed to do, not just state the most recent facts. And I'm a little surprised that an anon claims to know so much about Wookieepedia policy that register users haven't heard of. -- SFH 01:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I still thought the other quote described Jacen's overall character a little more, as did the picture. With these characters it's different, since we have picture of them since being babies, therefore the picture we would have to put is at least the first adult picture. It seemed that because of the mood of things his "Sith" picture was better. But whatever, doesn't really matter --Sauron18 12:36, 16 June 2006
 * I have to agree with SFH about that quote belongs more to the Legacy section, but I think a quote from the Legacy of the Force series that explains his overall, current character might suit better. But I do like the darker, ominous picture better.  And although I think I did hear QuentinGeorge saying to use an adult picture of a character and I interpretated the words as to mean that the recent image was the best to be used in an article here, but QuentinGeorge didn't exactly say that, so I'm not sure.  I mean the current quote we have right now explains the overall character of the OLD Jacen in NJO, not the current Jacen now.

The Jacen Solo we know and love is dead &mdash; even Jacen admits that in Betrayal (somewhere I think, I don't have the book right now). It went somewhere along the lines that both Jacen and Anakin Solo were dead and that strangely, he didn't mourn either of the deaths anymore...Can anyone post that quote up if they find it there? (So it all comes down to whether or not we use the most recent portrayal of Jacen Solo &mdash; his image and his quote).


 * Anyway, I think I'm going to go ask one of our esteemed admins about the recent image policy (I asked one of admins here if any of you want to know), or if there was even such a one. It seems logical to assume the recent image, but it seems like it's not really well-known among users here so... &mdash;Mir  len  22:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The general image policy is to go for a) A movie picture of their latest (living) movie appearance, if they are a film character. (ie, Ep IV Obi-Wan, Ep VI Yoda, etc) or b) For EU only characters, go for an adult picture, preferably a good shot of at least their head and shoulders. Whether it's them at age 28 or age 30 I don't think really matters.
 * Of course, these are all guidelines - if one picture is much higher quality than the others, or just generally far better in appearance, use that. QuentinGeorge 06:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * With this article in particular, I think the current image is fine, since it's a) Much higher quality than the LOTF one and B) His appearance hasn't changed much since the Unifying Force. QuentinGeorge 06:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And until the MAJOR SPOILER tag goes, we should avoid a LOTF lead-in quote purely because of the spoiler issues. QuentinGeorge 07:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Thanks QuentinGeorge. So the issue is settled then. :) &mdash;Mir  len  19:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warning for "Possible parallels?"
The "Possible parallels" section includes a sentence about Spoiler warning: Plot or ending details for follow. Jacen turning to the dark side. Spoilers end here. Do we need to put a spoiler tag on that section because of that line, or do we not need to, because of the major spoiler tag at the top of the page? Ben of Oz 15:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, no, because it just merely stating that because of the parallels between his grandfather and himself, there is a possibility that Jacen would go to the dark side like his grandfather afore him. &mdash;Mir  len  15:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * K. Just making sure. Ben of Oz 18:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Clarity Question
" Even before he and his sister were born, their uncle Luke Skywalker could sense their strong presence in the Force and the two shared an inseparable mental bond."

Does this refer to a mental bond between Jacen and his sister, or between Jacen and Luke?
 * Between the twins actually, which makes me wonder if this statement is relevant here...Petiflo 16:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Bloodlines
From ]

Jacen, now a complete master of the Force, has his own plans to bring order to the galaxy. Guided by his Sith mentor, Lumiya, and with Luke’s young son Ben at his side, Jacen embarks on the same path that his grandfather Darth Vader once did. And while Han and Leia watch their only son become a stranger, a secret assassin entangles the couple with a dreaded name from Han’s past: Boba Fett. In the new galactic order, friends and enemies are no longer what they seem...
 * From this Ben will most likely become Jacen's apprentice and not Tahiri. Jaina Solo 23:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

New Essential Guide picture marked as Dark Nest era
and I'm 95% sure it's from the New Jedi Order era. That's a young Jacen, and I remember seeing the image in one of the NEG books at Barnes and Noble; it was printed before the Dark Nest trilogy was, and that image can't be that late. 11thGuard 18:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus Jacen is described in the The Joiner King as being a grown-up man with almost a beard. --Petiflo 19:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed &mdash; that is a young teenage Jacen. &mdash;<font color="DB7093">Mir <font color="DB7093"> len  22:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well its the same with Jaina, and no he does not have a beard in joiner knig, thats after he has escaped the Vong so its still possible to be a dark nest pic Jedi Dude 22:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "[Ben] turned to Jacen, who had matured into a handsome man with a thick beard and brooding brown eyes".... That page 166 from The Joiner King --Petiflo 13:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the artist's intent was to capture Jacen some time between Vector Prime and his capture in Star by Star, considering that the entry for Jacen in the New Essential Guide to Characters only reaches the midpoint of the NJO and does not touch the Dark Nest trilogy with a ten-foot pole. Additionally, I get the impression that the picture that is purported to show Jacen during the First Corellian Insurrection is one of YJK-era Jacen.  Muuuuuurgh 09:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh well i take my comment back then, sorry. Jedi Dude 14:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Jacens Force Journey
Sorry, I didnt know what else to title this section. Is there any sources for what he actually did, i.e. novels or comics or the such, where it actually talks about what he went through and the things he did and learned? -- Fuzzyjedi 8-30-06

jacen's future
do you think jacen will kill luke? Andrewb1 01:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC) no he wont. he will never be strong enough.
 * This is not really the right place to discuss that kind of matters. --Tinwe 12:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

New lead in quote
This has been discussed to some extent in the Main image section, but I thought I'd bring it up again, since the current lead in quote doesn't seem to fit so well anymore. There's one in Destiny's Way I really like – it foreshadows Jacen's future choices but doesn't reveal too much to be an actual spoiler: "&hellip; he has always questioned his purpose as a Jedi, and even the meaning of the Force. I can't image him not questioning any fate that lay in store for him. And a special destiny is not always something joyous, or easy to bear. My father had a special destiny, and see where it took him."

- Luke Skywalker

That last sentence can be omitted of course, if you think it reveals too much. Thoughts? Other possible quotes? --Tinwe 12:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the quote is good.  Jaina Solo  Goddess Stuff [[Image:Jaina_19_(2).jpg |20px]] 12:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been wanting to change the lead quote for Jacen, but the plan was refused on the account that it focused and revealed too much as Jacen's path to the Dark Side. I don't think the last sentence needs to be omitted, as it is a general knowledge of Jacen's destiny will turn out to be &mdash; and it's a good quote because it summarizes his biography.  In short, it's perfect as a lead quote. &mdash;<font color="DB7093">Mir <font color="DB7093"> len  01:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you like it :) I'm going to give this a couple more days, and if no one has objected, say, by Thursday, I'll add the quote to the article. --Tinwe 14:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. --Tinwe 11:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks great. :)</tt> --<font color="DB7093">Mir <font color="DB7093"> len  22:00, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Confused

 * I'm confused. What actually happening between Luke and Jacen. He's fallen to the darkside but i keep reading that Luke distrusts him, he was in the Jedi Temple and stuff like that. What happening? Jasca Ducato Sith Council (Sith campaign)[[Image:SOFD.PNG|20px]] 19:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

i'm confused how the GFFA would approve a sith at the leader of their secret police...


 * They don't know he's a Sith. --Sauron18 01:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * But Luke does.  Jaina Solo  Goddess Stuff [[Image:Jbig3.JPG |20px]] 00:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Luke doesn't know Jacen has expressed interest in becoming a Sith Lord, he only knows Jacen is starting to turn to the Dark Side. Big difference. QuentinGeorge 06:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds eerily familiar... hmmm, let me change around some names: "Obi-Wan doesn't know Anakin has expressed interest in becoming a Sith Lord, he only knows Anakin is starting to turn to the Dark Side." Oh, f*p! Holy crap! Oy! It's really scary... does anyone else here hear the "Imperial March" slowly creeping up on you? Adas Xendor 19:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Darth Krayt?

 * I'm just putting this up because I saw it so many times on the Darth Krayt talk page, but... is it really meant to be? Are the writers of Legacy planning to make Jacen Solo... Darth Krayt?
 * I don't know, but I'd like to hear it from you, the GFFA's loyal fans. MTFBWY. Adas Xendor 00:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * 121 years old in 130 ABY. Definetely stasis or something for that to be. -Finlayson 14:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Darth Krayt is known to have gone into stasis, IIRC. So it seems likely. There is the date discrepancy for when he founded his Sith order, but I would imagine that can be resolved (maybe a retcon is needed, I don't know). The problem I see is that this leaves the Legacy series kind of strangely off, without a good conclusion for his Sithiness besides "goes into stasis" (as opposed to, say, leads a rebellion or is redeemed or...) Greedo 17:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for responding! I'm overjoyed to receive posts, and I hope you write more. Now, I'll just let you alone to talk... MTFBWY! Adas Xendor 22:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it will be Darth Krayt, unless Krayt changes his name to just that. The only reason I say this is that I just noticed an article on www.starwars.com today saying that online users can enter a drawing to come up with the new Sith name in the upcoming book "Sacrifice," and I can only assume that it's for Jacen.  It was a good idea, though, considering that Darth Krayt does go into some kind of stasis.

The Man Who Does/Doesn't Exist
I was wondering, why is there no place in this article for the Sith Jacen which keeps on flow walking around in Betrayal? --Sauron18 20:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, I was wondering if we had an article for Lumiya's illusions as well. I know "Sith Jacen" wasn't one of them, but still.--Sauron18 20:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Where did this Quote Appear?
"Sometimes things must be broken in order to be rebuilt" - Jacen Solo

Where is it from? I think I might've read it and forgotten, but it is identical to one of Krayt's quotes, so I'm not sure if I read and forgot it, or if someone sneaked it in....--Sauron18 20:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I found it --Sauron18 20:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Where is it from? I'd be interested to know.
 * It's from the Tempest excerpt in the Bloodines novel. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jaina_sig.jpg|25px]] 22:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, if they both said it... that is a very exciting link between the two. This may lend creedence to the Krayt is Jacen theory. - Breathesgelatin 03:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry guy, I been checking both the excerpt in Bloodlines and the novell Tempes itelf, this quote is nowere to be seen, from Jacen or anbody else. I remove it. --Petiflo 10:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * How can we trust you? You've only relied on excerpts from the novel and, apparently, a bad English dictionary. I'll replace it. Sir You Know My Name, N.K.-S.R.T. 20:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Jaina Solo said it was in the excerpt in Bloodlines but it sure isn't, and when this quote was added Tempest wasn't out yet, all we had was the excerpt in Bloodlines so if this quote is actually somewhere else in Tempest, how could anyone knew it at the time? Well, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt because I'm not 100% sure. I will go through Tempest again to check. Anyway... How is my english relevant in this matter? I cannot be trusted because I don't speak -sorry, don't write- perfect english? How does that make sense? And how can you be trusted? Do you know where the quote appears? I bet you do since it seems you saw it in Tempest yourself (otherwise why would you claim it is?), just tell me the page then, I will see that I'm wrong and apologize. In the meantime I'm 90% sure this quote isn't in the book, but like I said, I'll check again, and if someone else could check too (you never know I can still say I didn't saw it but be lying about it can't I?) that would surely be very helpfull. --Petiflo 04:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Rank?
Did Jacen become a Jedi Master before he fell? Or was he just a Knight? --Jedi Striker 18 September 2006, 23:41 (UTC)

As of the end of Bloodlines he remains a Knight, but there are calls to promote him. YIIMM 06:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I was wondering cuz it says in Ben Skywalker's article that Jacen was his Jedi Master. If that's not the case, I'll make the change in Ben's article.  i just wanted to be sure. --Jedi Striker, 4:17, 01 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well Jacen is not officially Ben's Master but into Ben's mind, he definetelly is. --Petiflo 14:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It strikes me that everyone misspells "definitely". - Sikon 03:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think some of the confusion comes from the liner notes on the back cover of the Bloodlines novel. It says "Jacen, now a complete master of the Force, has his own plans to bring order to the galaxy." I think many confuse his mastery of the Force with him being a Jedi Master. Chervil 03:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, could be we have another Jedi who assumed the rank of Jedi Master? Jedi Striker 16:27, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, he didn't. As far as he is concerned he is just a Knight and not so much eager to be a Master (to be more accurate he sees himself more like a Sith now, not even a Jedi). Ben alone sees Jacen as his "Master". --Petiflo 18:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sith name?
What's his Sith name? What comes after the Darth?--Chili14 03:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC) In Insider #90 is says the fans get to choose by going to darthwho.com but it doesn't work. User:Hodayc Grr, what happened to Darth Krayt?! Greedo 06:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This has not been revealed. If I recall correctly, Lumiya has told him he will not receive a Sith name until he has completed his initiation into the Sith order by destroying the thing he loves most. - Breathesgelatin 04:09, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's pobably a name that will mean something or a name describing his character like Vader which meant father. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jaina_sig.jpg|25px]] 22:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably just not set up yet. - Breathesgelatin 02:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It works now. http://www.starwars.com/darthwho --72.65.153.66 00:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jaina_sig.jpg|25px]] 00:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops, try it now. http://www.starwars.com/darthwho --Rune Haako 00:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But i can't give my sith name. How do i do that? User:Hodayc
 * Thanks it works. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jaina_sig.jpg|25px]] 00:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Sith Lord succession box
Are we putting this back now that TOS has confirmed Jacen is getting a Sith name in Sacrifice?  StarNeptune Talk to me! 00:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I say wait until he actually gets the name when the book comes out...  - breathesgelatin Talk 15:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Along with this idea, shouldn't we drop the Sith Character Info Box as well, until he becomes a full fledged Sith, he is still a member of the Jedi, and Galactic Republic at this point, just a thought  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 04:47, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Is Jacen truly evil?

 * I'm curious as to people's opinions in this. Is he really acting for the greater good, or is he letting the dark side corrupt him so he only thinks he is? Up until he killed Ailyn Vel, I was sure he was still 'good', just doing what was needed, but after this, I'm starting to think he really will become totally dark. Do you think he'll come out good in the end...? Adas Xendor 16:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, talk pages are meant to discuss the article, not the article subject. For the latter, you may consider TFN. - Sixon 17:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, Jacen has definitely done some pretty evil things, and is also on his way toward becoming a Sith Lord, which would, in my opinion, make him undeniably evil. But then again, like his grandfather Anakin, I can't necessarily see Jacen remaining evil. I must be the only one who thinks Lumiya/Vergere actually have a point... Greedo 15:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Both Lumiya and Vergere may have a point in terms of what they said about Darth Vectivus, but look at the things Jacen is doing. Adas Xendor 2:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It comes down to utilitarianism; if his visions of the future are correct, his path is a tradeoff that probably is worth it (at least so far). Truly, what is the death of a few (even those close to him), the imposition of overstrict martial law, etc. compared to galaxy-wide chaos? Sure his acts may be evil in the sense that a Dungeons & Dragons detect evil spell would verify, but in this world it's much more grey. (For the record I am partially playing devil's advocate, but I really do like the addition of moral ambiguity and the twisting of Jacen's character to Star Wars.) Greedo 07:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, Greedo.....I'm actually shocked that someone besides me thinks that he's still basically on the right track. He's doing bad things, but he has to. DawnStrike 20:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it isn't possible. But after having seen one character after another fall prey to the lies of the Sith, I'm just not holding out much hope.  My current vision of Jacen is of him becoming the next Vader.
 * He's doing bad things, but he has to...That's what Palpatine told Anakin and Luke. -- SFH 02:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. And as far as visions go, Anakin also had visions of Padmé dying, and as such, did what he thought he needed to do to save her.  In the end, he was the one who made the visions come true.  The same could possibly be said of what Jacen is doing; his attempt to save the galaxy may ultimately doom it. 69.26.85.90 03:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

To quote several million people: "He could be being harsh, to be kind." Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 12:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I have to agree, he is taking the path of Anakin, but FOR GOODNESS' SAKE, if this is going to be Ep. 3 all over again, I WILL NEVER READ Star Wars literature again. Jacen deserves to have his own story, not his tacky grandfather's. DawnStrike9:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Believe me; originally, it would have been much tackier had the writers had their way. In Star By Star, Jacen was supposed to have died, and Anakin was taken in by Vergere. Eventually, Jacen's current story would have been Anakin's. EEEK! Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 05:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Scary. .  .  .  .  06:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, Thefourdotelipsis; very scary. I'm glad GL put a stop to it. Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 01:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That would have been the prequel trilogy all over again. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 01:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I'm sure Lucas didn't want that. :P Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 00:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, at least LOTF is about Jacen learning from Anakin's mistakes, not repeating them. .  .  .  .  00:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Which, if the Legacy boys have their way, will be completely flushed down the crapper. Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 01:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And I mean COMPLETELY FLUSHED DOWN THE CRAPPER. Responses, anyone? Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 19:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 22:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * HELLO-O-O? Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 23:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * WHY HASN'T ANYONE RESPONDED?!?! Sir Adas Xendor, Noble Knight of the Sith Round Table 04:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps because talk pages are for discussing changes and edits to articles, not to discuss opinions about novels, storylines, etc. A better place for such discussion would be on a messageboard like theforce.net's forums.  - breathesgelatin Talk 07:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Because nobody cares? Greedo 21:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe he's not truly evil, but he certainly is truly stupid. He should've just flow-walked (weeeee!) back a few more times until he got to Palpatine's "safe and secure" speech - lalala_la
 * I concur, but Lumiya brainwashed him into believeing the Dark Side could be the galaxy's salvation and that Palps was a fool (not disagreeing, just that he wouldn't put much faith into seeing Palps act a fool, and thus redeem himself. Tenel Ka and Allana will either save him or perhaps Tenel Ka may end up killing him, reference Dark Journey.) Darth Balls 16:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, that wouldn't be interesting. :( Sir You Know My Name, N.K.-S.R.T. 04:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Krayt's master
Okay I have an idea. Could he be Krayt's master?

I dont think that he could be his master cause in tempest lumiya hints that she knows that there are other sith out there so it makes it sound like drath krayt's already around 69.26.85.156 22:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Realy? I haven't read the series yet so I don't know what's going on.
 * Where did you here this? Sir You Know My Name, N.K.-S.R.T. 04:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are more Sith around, as confirmed by Lumiya in Tempest. However, don't forget that LotF and Legacy are two separate products, and crossovers will likely be limited only to little mentions such as that, not using characters exclusive to either series. Besides, the Sith are already around, so why would Krayt need a Master? - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 15:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Appearances

 * Troy Denning Confirmed that Jacen is going to be in Inferno so I am gong to go ahead and add it.Darth Solus 02:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * How do you know this? Are you Troy Denning? Sir You Know My Name, N.K.-S.R.T. 04:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * He said so in an interview.Darth Solus 00:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Which one? Are you sure'? Sir You Know My Name, N.K.-S.R.T. 00:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I posted the link on the Inferno page.Darth Solus 15:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

5.2 Factual correction - Events during "Traitor"
Hello there, I've just been reading the article about Jacen Solo, specifically the events that occured during the NJO book "Traitor". I have noticed a couple of factual errors about these events. In the article, it is said that Jacen escaped to the vongformed coruscant by using his vongsense. This is quite wrong. During the battle in the nursery, as Jacen was about to kill the last world brain Vergere appeared and tried to pursuade him not to kill his "friend". When this failed, she used her force altered tears to put Jacen to sleep. Jacen and Vergere were then released by Nom Anor onto the surface of Coruscant as part of the attempt to break Jacen and make him believe in the Vong Religion.

The second error I noticed was about incident with the gigantic Vong creature and the people living therin. The article states that Jacen goes on to kill those he found inside. This is also wrong. When the young girl he rescues turns on him, he grows angry and implants a thought into the creature's mind using his animal empathy saying that all humanoids are poisonous. This causes the creature to vomit the contents of it's stomach and holding sack before closing up and not allowing re-entry. Those people inside the creature were alive and well when Jacen left them, though they did accuse him of killing them as they no longer had their "safe" place to live.

These facts can of course be verified by reading the book more carefully. I hope that this can be corrected and the article updated.
 * Well I cant find fault in your logic in the first "mistake". But on the second, the book says (going off of memory) "'How many did you kill?' said Anakin. 'All of them, none of them...'" he didn't directly kill them, although he may have sparked the events that cause their death at the hands of Vong creatures or the Vong themselves. Fact, he didn't use his vongsense to get off of the ship but he used his Vongsense to lead to his departure. Darth Balls 00:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Lightsabre
As a Sith Lord, Jacen discarded his Jedi lightsaber and constructed a new, electrum lightsaber (probably with a red blade) to signifying his complete mastery of the force.

Is there a source for this statement, and i believe that (Probably with a red blade) should be removed. If the talk pages aren't for speculation the page itself certainly isn't.Darth Balls 00:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing that says he gets an electrum lightsaber. However in Betrayal the future Jacen has black and gold robes and a black and gold lightsaber. I agree that the "probably with a red blade" should be removed.Darth Solus 04:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In betrayal I don't recall a "future" Jacen I recall the Jacen that fought Luke, but at the same time there were both Luke and Ben's in this same form, it was a Dark Side illusion caused by Lumiya not a look at the future of any of these characters, but I could be wrong and will double check the book to make sure.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 04:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I'm re-re-re-re-re-re-re(etc)reading Betrayal, so when i get their i'll confirm your findings, still at Centerpoint.Darth Balls 16:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Chapter 35, it doesn't say anything about what "not-Jacen" is wearing, just whoever it was reeked of dark side energy, and his stare promised only malevolence. so i did some investigating that is a description of the false Luke... i'll remove it, see page 336 (hardcover), line 5-8. He was tall, slender, garbed in a traveler's robe of black and dark gold; it was stiled like a Jedi's but made out of expensive silks. A lightsaber, its hilt also in black and gold, swung at his belt.Darth Balls 18:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

That pasage doesnt describe the not luke it describes the sith lord vision that jacen meets. after jacen leaves lumyima talks to the vision and says jacen will eventually become you, another thing in the star wars universe gold is electrum i think that passage should be put back in

"Who put the thing about the electrum saber back in the article"-Darth Morder 15 December 2006
 * I did, should have been quite obvious if you looked through the history, but someone else added the bit about the synthetic red crystal. i need a citation for the color of the blade though.Darth Balls 01:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

"I dont think there is one in betrayal, although its almost certain to be red i agree it shouldnt be there without conformation".-Darth Morder 11:55, 16 december

"also The above passage about the figure in black and gold is definately not the dark Luke, I went through it last night, the sith lord says to jacen first you must go through my subordinates to get to me, then conjures the dark luke.

"This is getting stupid, someone obviously doesnt understand that being a sith lord doesnt always mean having a red lightsaber, If this is an unregisterd user i suppose there no way of finding out whos doing it I think were going to end up putting an edit shield round this article.-Darth Morder 12:45, 16 december

I'd say Jacen building an electrum lightsaber is fanon until he actually constructs it. The future Jacen from Betrayal is one path of many he could head down, and even then, the description from Betrayal doesn't specifically say it's electrum.Sailor Naboo

"It says a Lightsaber of black and gold, and in the star wars univere gold is electrum so its true".-Darth Morder 18 december


 * We only saw this saber on a Force Vision of a Sith Lord who doesn't exist yet. Even if in my opinion, it's likely that Jacen will have such a lightsaber, there is no solid evidence that he will. It is still unverified info to me. --Petiflo 01:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. The future is always in motion therefore we don't know how much of this vision is going to actually occur. Grunny (Talk) 03:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

"the vision is a reflection of jacens future, and besides the author of the book would not have gone into such detail about small things like attire and weaponary if it wasnt signifigent.-Darth Morder 19 december.

Never thought I could stir up such a war over one comment that I didn't read fully. Sorry mods, but can you put on a edit block and take off this non-sense about a lightsabre. We have no concrete proof that Jacen will do this, the future is allways in motion. Except when you get a statement and several ads with the title "Darth Who?", then we know Jacen will take a Sith name.


 * Like the argument over the Jedi Exile gender was not enough... now there's gonna be a new argument over Jacen and his lightsabre... Darth Morder you say the vision is a reflexion of Jacen's future, it's a reflexion of a possible future... Alright we all know he will become a Sith Lord and have a Darth title I can't argue on this, but that doesn't tell us anything about is lightsaber. What about the vision Luke had inside the cave in Dagobah... It was a reflexion of his future too at this time, did he ever wear a black armor at any time? I don't recall so. I'm not saying Jacen is not gonna have an electrum lighsaber, I'm saying we don't know what saber he will have. We just don't have any solid information at this time. And no, a Force Vision is not a solid information, "Always in motion is the future".--Petiflo 05:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

fair enough, I wasnt even the one who put it in there in the first place, after re-reading betrayal it just made sense never mind. I think we will have a hard time convincing others, fannon seems to have a lot of voice unfortuntely.-Darth Morder 2:00 20 december.
 * Can an admin please protect the page from anon edits to stop this being re-added repeatedly? --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Quote
"Sometimes, things must be broken in order to be rebuilt."

- Jacen Solo

Can someone confirm that's an actual quote from Tempest? Because Darth Krayt says that exact line in Star Wars Legacy 1: Broken, Part 1. It could be a user messing around with the "Jacen = Krayt?" thing, or a very interesting coincidence... - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 16:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * While we're at the "did he say this" game, is this a confirmed quote from exile? My future is not preset; I have no special destiny! I forge my own way, I walk a new path. I shall determine my own destiny. Because Darth Krayt says ...I forge my own way, I walk a new path.... Though that seems more like coincidence than him re-iterating that 90-some years later.Darth Balls 19:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This is already being discussed above on the "Where did this quote appear" section. --Petiflo 02:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)