Talk:Gray Jedi

Bias in the article

 * This article has a bias POV problem within the Behind the Scenes section: "to follow the misguided Potentium". Potentium, although is a theory, is not misguided.  I think the "misguided" should be taken out of the article 65.27.132.105 02:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC) Scyrone


 * I agree.Sith-venator9:32PM 9-10-08
 * I disagree. Potentium has been confirmed in canon to be a misguided view of the force that leads to the dark side. fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 16:00, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Expanding article
Can someone expand on this article. I'm sure there are alot more to the grey jedi then what I provided. -Redemption 04:42, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure we want this article. Gray Jedi is only used once in the entire EU, and its a pejorative statement Tyvokka utters to Plo Koon about why Qui-Gon Jinn is unsuitable to the council. QuentinGeorge 08:38, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * In KOTOR 2, there is a set of robes called "Gray Jedi Robes". The description of these robes describe "Gray Jedi" as: "Gray Jedi, although having completed the teachings of the Jedi, operate idependently and outside of the Jedi Council. They are typically seen as misguided, though they have not necessarily succumbed to the dark side". So Gray Jedi are mentioned elsewere in the EU, though not described the way they are in the "Grey Jedi" article.70.109.226.104 16:54, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * It does not, indeed, say they deny good and evil in the Force or otherwise. 68.225.242.19 00:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Grey Jedi seem to be appearing more in the greater EU. Jacen Solo would certainly qualify in my opinion (though he I also think he's been showing some dark tendencies). Vergere would also qualify. So I believe we should keep it, but if we do, it should be expanded. -- SFH 20:06, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Neither is described as "grey", nor do they describe themselves as grey. QuentinGeorge 20:07, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Do they consider themselves light or dark? Do they consider themselves good or evil? Dot they&mdash;Good Lord! I'm starting to sound like a Potentium Heretic. I've got to stop reading NJO books before I go nuts. Still, does it really matter what they call themselves. I'm not saying they fit a concrete definition, but those are just a two. What of Jolee Bindo and Kreia? Jolee certainly thought in terms of grey. -- SFH 20:14, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Not reading NJO books is always a good idea! *innocent whistle*. T'is a shame that this Grey Jedi idea has become so popular, it's perverted everything the original trilogy stood for in terms of the Force. Jachra 20:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * All I'm saying is it's a very speculative article at the current time. I'd rather change it to be exclusively an examination of the term, and only include people who EXPLICTLY labelled themselves, or were labelled, as such. QuentinGeorge 05:17, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I will admit it is rather speculative, and in it's current form not very specific. But I think we should keep it. -- SFH 05:34, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm in the process of a rewrite for this article. Should have a better, less speculative version up soon. QuentinGeorge 04:53, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Still planning on redoing this article. It's way too speculative and fanony at the moment. Give me a few days. QuentinGeorge 06:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It does seem to be a fanon description, given that it isn't used in canon sources at all, really--Erl 22:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The term is used, sparingly and vaguely, in all the sources listed (I don't know about Traitor). But I think this article needs a major rewrite, it is very fanony and too poetic.  Maybe nominate for an improvement drive? Lonnyd 10:48, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * From what I've heard about Grey Jedi, they aren't really Jedi anymore. They weren't exiled, they just left the order.  I forget where I heard that though. MaulYoda 18:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

especially in light of the fact wikiQuote "Each clan had a unique set of rules regarding Force usage, but all the clans held one rule above all others: "Never concede to evil"."end wikiquote
 * The Gray Jedi and Gray Sith are realistic and should be canonized as such..I've already begun work on the fleshing out a divergent order...not the potentium mind you but one that is to be much older..it would be concealed due to its very nature in similar fashion Vergere could hide herself in the force.
 * From what I read of the NJO I don't consider Vergere a gray jedi by doctrine although she has become one in action and by fate of circumstance being that the order that she adheres to no longer exists except through Luke Skywalker whose authority she seems to outright reject...
 * Also in the Article about Jolee Bindo, he specifically refers to himself as gray and even is quoted asking Revan to think of him to the effect of being a normal person with a lightsaber and force abilities...
 * Kreias ultimate goal in her article is to end the dominance of the force and her fall to the path of the Sith prior to this would seem to me to make her more of a gray Sith than a gray Jedi. She was cast out of the Sith Order, she didn't quite return to the Jedi did she.
 * The Dathomir Witch clans would likely all qualify as gray except the Nightsisters who I guess would be Darkside...hmm but their universal law never concede to evil could be interpreted as a 0 tolerance creed for the light side of the force,but I wager that its simplicity makes it inadequate to serve this purpose.
 * Even Mace Windu (and perhaps many of his people as well by default)could have been argued to have been a gray by nature with his creation of Vapaad, jaunts into the dark side, and decision to kill Sidious though he was apparently bested in lightsaber duel."the question of justice still arises with this though: Is it evil to strike down an apparantly greater evil in ways that are against your adopted moral codes? When do those codes themselves become evil amid questionable circumstances?
 * Heres another candidate to the gray..-wikiquote-Over the next thirteen years, Lorian ditched the Agri-Corps and became the leader of a band of space raiders-..-Lorian in a way redeemed himself, and died in spirit as a true Jedi Knight-endwikiquote-..read about this dude and decide for yourself..I say gray..

So why should it matter if the characters have identified themselves or been identified as such...yet it WOULD be difficult to catagorize the characters based on whether they EVER defied the Jedi order or not or used the darkside for a light purpose. Actually I choose to believe despite anybody's argument even if it winds up being PURE FANON that there is or should be a loosely based (perhaps only bound merely by creed maybe a secretive order of force users who follow after the Exile..because I play the Exile in such a way as he never truly committed himself in any direction too far. And he definately had followers. A few simple conversations could sway my guy over to the light or darkside. I wager I can do this all the way until I'm ready to do the Korriban cave thing. Also both he/she and Revan's fates are pretty much unresolved, and they seem to dissappear into the Unknown Regions..Well anyway thats all I will say for now, feel free to edit and trim my article to suite the discussion..In the end without dedicated "gray" orders like the Potentium, it would logically fall on the observer's opinion to determine who is of the dark, who is of the light and who is of the gray.
 * I don't believe most of the gray jedi are in any actual gray order in and of themselves just as the Jedi order is not known as the Light Order(arguably the lack of Dark in front of the term Jedi implies this but its difficult since the Jedi Order existed before the Dark jedi or the Sith..btw I know we have all noticed in the games and articles the distinctions made between the Dark Jedi and the Sith..


 * It seems to me that the major point of confution is what presicely constitutes a Grey Jedi. The term Grey Jedi is rather vague, and in its broadest use could aply to any of the folowing.

1.Jedi/Sith who are at odds with the Jedi/Sith Council on matters of policy. 2.Any one who goes from light to dark to light etc. within thier lifetime. 3.All adharents of the Potentium philosophy. 4.Any followers of a hypothetical grey jedi order. 5.Any one labeled as a Grey Jedi. 6.Any one who belives that good/evil lies in the Force user and not in the Force itself. 7.Any one who dose not wholy and entirely support and practice the Jedi/Sith Codes. 8.Rogue Jedi/Sith who are still within thier respective orders. 9.Rogue Jedi/Sith who are not still within thier respective orders. 10.One or more of the Dathomir Witch clans. 11.Possibly the Dathomir Nightsisters.

Perhaps the answer is to create/maintain articles for all of these sub-groups and simply use this article as an umbrella for them. Rather than make a list of Grey Jedi, make a list of groups/types that could be considered Grey with links to thier respective articles. 64.235.77.3 06:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Name
I hate to be the one to bring this up, but shouldn't this article be called "Gray Jedi?" That's how it is spelled in the only official source we have, and the manual of style tells us to use american spelling. Lonnyd 21:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * In this case, someone should make similar changes to the template and category.

Traits

 * Once again someone ladled a whole lot of fanon rubbish into this article just as I was trying to fix it. I have reverted it so I can have another go at fixing it. QuentinGeorge 13:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Quote
Doesn't this quote have more to do with Qui-Gon than with Grey Jedi? -  Angel Blue  (Holonet) 22:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Probably a quote from Jolee Bindo or Kreia will do. -- Redemption Talk Uglykotoricon.svg 23:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * How about: ""…from now on, just think of me as any other non-Jedi in our little group. With a lightsaber. And Force powers." Jolee Bindo to Revan. -- Tikaheta  16:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Qui-Gon?
Wasn't Qui-Gon considered to be a Grey-Jedi by the Jedi Council? - "Awar 22:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)".


 * yes some considered him to be one. if a jedi defies the council or uses light and dark powers with the beief that good and evil is within the person not the powers, that makes them gray.
 * "or uses light and dark powers with the beief that good and evil is within the person not the powers": Incorrect. "Gray Jedi" simply means that they defy the Council. - Lord Hydronium 19:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Jon Antilles
Was Jon Antilles a Gray Jedi? he was a maverick jedi who operated independently, with little contact with the Jedi Council, so he does seem to fit the definition of a Gray Jedi. If he can be considered a Gray Jedi, then someone should add him to the list in the article. I can't do it becuase the article is protected from anonymous editing. 151.203.161.42 15:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * hey that's a good point. And I think the Dark Woman would qualify too. Unfortunately...I don't think we have any confirmation of that. There are a lot of "independent" jedi that might qualify, but I think we should probably limit the list to confirmed examples. Maybe I'll put a note on it. fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 16:03, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Revan a Grey Jedi?
I don't think that Revan was a grey Jedi. He understood the natures of the light and dark sides. He was a Jedi, a Dark Jedi and a Sith and a Jedi again. He probably agreed with the Council about the light and dark sides of the Force. So I think we should take him off the list of Grey Jedi. And besdies disagreeing with the Council does not make one a Gray Jedi.--Jedi Kasra 10:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

What WAS he then, if not a Grey Jedi? He certainly wasn't completely in tune with either of the 'factions', you could say. For one, love is forbidden by the Jedi, yet Revan and Bastila have a romantic relationship.

Kyle Katarn
I think that Katarn might be a Gray Jedi, Considering his use of both light and dark powers, and his unorthodox methods. And that he is a Mercenary. Kyle is definitly a Gray Jedi. He teaches the philosophy to Jaden and Rosh so they would probably be too.

It says that Kyle Katarn is a Gray Jedi in his article. User:Kilson


 * he appears to have been removed as a gray jedi now. Should I put him back in with some reasoning as to why?  I dont really know where it would fit in to describe the reasoning for his gray jedi candidacy prior to the NJO.
 * No you should not put him back in, Kyle Katarn was not a Gray Jedi. The fact that someone uses "dark powers" should not be seen as "proof" that he is a Gray Jedi. All unconfirmed information has recently been removed, only confirmed Gray Jedi should be mentioned in this article. As you can see, Kyle Katarn is not one of them. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 18:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Ashen - Sirs...I believe Kyle Katarn is a gray Jedi...for several reasons.. Number one - Kyle Katarn uses both Light and Dark Side powers...even tho that alone is not proof enough i have more

Number Two - In Star Wars Jedi Academy game Kyle Katarn does not tell the Jedi Council of his going to Korriban to save Rosh Penin he does it on his own accord

Number Three - As seen in Jedi Outcast he goes to the Valley of the Jedi and absorbs the power..and when Luke confronted him about it..he seemed not to care what Luke thought because he did what he wanted to do and nothing the council could have told him wouldent matter...Just like Jinn.

So yes you should add him back..

Additional Grey Jedi
Some additional grey jedi to think about; Nejaa Halcyon was married and had a son (Valin Halcyon/Hal Horn.) Vergere was a grey jedi (i think). Could Jacen Solo be a grey jedi?

Nejaa Halcyon was a Corellian Jedi, to make him Grey would make them all Grey. The followed different philosophies on the Jedi rules against attachment. Vergere went dark at some point, completely missed the Grey. Snarf5181 03:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually the corellian jedi were held to the same constraints as the rest of the order. There was a scene where Anakin and Nejaa share a moment when they talk about their hidden marriages. fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 16:05, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ashen - Kreia is a Grey Jedi..you should add her because through most of the game she is...

Baadu
I've read somewhere in the internet that Gray Jedi are also called Baadu? does that ring any bells to you? does anybody have a source of this info?

81.168.250.62 11:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Where on the internet? Darth Oompa Loompa 19:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Look on this page. http://www.rpg-domain.de/JHV13/part6.htm

Definition
Now that the KOTOR CG has provided a more objective set of criteria by which a Jedi may be considered Gray, might it be possible to add those known Jedi who fit the definition, such as Aqinos or Djinn Altis? Dangerdan97 16:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Does this count?
Would a Force-sensitive who is loyal to the Jedi Order but not considered a part of it be considered a Gray Jedi? Just curious. Darth Havoc 07:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)