Talk:Yoda/Legends

Yoda is not a Whill. This erroneous fact comes from Supershadow--Eion 21:58, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure? The 'Journal Of The Whills' was the original name of the rough draft for episode IV, and I have seen many other sources citing that name. But that's fanon, not canon, so I agree that it should be left unknown, as stated on starwars.com Lord Patrick Stink this mud does!-Yoda, Deleated scene of Episode 3.--wattamb2000 ITS NOT NONESENSE!: 152 EXT. KASHYYYK-LAKE ON VILLAGE EDGE-DUSK
 * It ain't canon till the fat man says so. Yes, the Whills are part of the history of the Star Wars script, but then so is Luke Starkiller, who in early production work bears a striking resemblance to the flannel man himself, but I don't think anyone will claim that Luke Skywalker is a Mary Sue. The Whills do not appear in any but the earliest drafts of ANH. The many other sources argument reminds me of an Elvis album I once saw, "20 million Elvis Fans can't be wrong"; yes they can. Popularity does not mean it is right. SS made it popular again, that's all.--Eion 05:32, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the Whills do exist now as of the ROTS novel, but they arent Yoda's species. And Wattamb, please dont post nonsense. Durnar 12:40, 27 Aug 2005 (UTC)

CLONES in modified one-man AT-ST's and Swamp Speeders flash their searchlights across the gloomy lake. The light of one of the AT-ST's spots something floating in the water. It is what's left of a Wookiee catamaran. The body of a dead Wookiee (TARFFUL) is lying across the stern of the wreckage of the flying boat. There is some movement on the boat. The CLONE SERGEANT on the AT-ST fires a warning shot past the boat. AT-ST CLONE SERGEANT: Everyone out of there! A CRAZY LITTLE CREATURE about two feet high pops its head over the rail. The creature is covered with mud. His long hair is frizzed out in all directions. CREATURE: Wookiee good. . . eat Wookiee. (crazy little laugh) CLONE SERGEANT: Did you find something? CREATURE: It's nothing, nothing. (laughs) CLONE SERGEANT: It's nothing, nothing. All these Wookiees are dead. Move to the east. CLONE TROOPER: Yes, sir. Suddenly, CHEWBACCA climbs up behind the AT-ST CLONE, dripping wet, and throws the CLONE SERGEANT into the water. CHEWIE BARKS. CREATURE: Right you are, Chewbacca. Faster that will be. TARFFUL jumps up in the boat, and the CREATURE takes off his hair. It is Yoda. YODA: Stink, this mud does. A moment to bathe, give me. YODA, covered with mud, jumps into the water. TARFFUL climbs onto the AT-ST with CHEWBACCA. YODA is out of the water and putting his robes back on. YODA: (continuing) Not far, are we, from the emergency ship. Quickly. . . YODA whistles and a large ALIEN FLYING INSECT called CAN-CELL appears. YODA jumps on the insect's back and they take off. The WOOKIEES follow on the AT-ST. The CLONES continue to search the swamp.--wattamb2000 And the crackpipe (to Wattamb) Lord Patrick 06:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Calm down on the caps lock. -- Riffsyphon1024 00:12, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Exile
Is it worth including Luke's conjecture from Before the Storm on Yoda's decision to stay out of the Galactic Civil War? It is an interesting viewpoint, but considering Luke's understanding of Yoda and the fallen Jedi Order at the time (he assumed Yoda had been on Dagobah for over one hundred years). Thoughts? --SparqMan 21:29, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It may be worth noting the speculation, if only to demonstrate how little Luke understands Galactic history, which shows just how thoroughly the Empire destroyed it.--Eion 16:18, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Text removal
I removed this text from the article:

"In ninth century BBY, Yoda was trained by Jedi Master Obius The Awesome."

According to Wikipedia [Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Jedi Master Obius], "Obius" is just made up nonsense. Also, there are no reliable sources to back this up.-LtNOWIS 19:46, 27 May 2005 (UTC) It's not from SuperShadow. Only Google hits pointed to the former article on Wikipedia Lord Patrick 00:38, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * And adding "The Awesome" is just ludicrous. -- Riffsyphon1024 14:29, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Obius = Supershadow. QuentinGeorge 23:13, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * You're linking. Does that mean I should redirect that to Superstupid? -- Riffsyphon1024 23:17, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Yoda vs. Sidious
Sidious wasn't too powerful for Yoda. "You have to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" ~ George Lucas, the Making of Revenge of the Sith; page 204. Which means they were almost equal... There is even more:

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.

YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.

YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.

YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.

YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.

~Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith The Illustrated Screenplay (some scenes described above are deleted)

They were almost equaly matched during the duel but in the end, Yoda bested him in both lightsaber and Force combat, but he retreated and Sidious won (in a way). The novelisation says otherwise, but it is contradicted by two G-level sources... Fingolfin The Elf King


 * You bring up a good point. But the novelization points out that Yoda realizes that a lightsaber isn't going to kill Palpatine, thus Yoda retreated for the sake of the Jedi Order. -- SFH 10:11, 20 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Well, that may be true, from a certain point of view. Here are the exact lines:

"The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon?

He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. Hmmm, Yoda thought. A problem this is..."

He had a vision, and this vision opened his eyes. What he might have seen is unclear but that doesn't change the fact that Palpatine wasn't too much for him (as the article states) - he was better than Palpatine, but that obviously wasn't enough. Fingolfin The Elf King

YODA IS THE MAN! LOOK AT HOW COOL HE IS! HES A PIMP WITH THAT LIGHTSABER IN THA CLONES GUT! SWEET CHEERY PIE!
 * What's the point, exactly? P.S.: No one can best Palpy!

Yoda could have killed Palps in a second if he wasnt nearing 900! Dude people that old slow down! and plus alot of people could have bested Palps, Mace Windu was about to kill him but then Anakin made that dumb choice to chop of his hand!

Fanboys please. Lucas has stated over and over again, that Sidious is the most powerful force user in the galaxy. That yoda and obiwan combine would be unable to defeat sidious and vader. Luke was the only one with the Force potential to even be a concern to the two sith. Lucas has also stated in the Ep. III commentary that he did pretend to be too weak to beat Mace and that he gave up the fight to make it appear that the jedi were going to assasinate him. He also "popped" back to life and blasted mace with the force lightning when sidious was in his full power and true form. He took out yoda both times with the lightning. First in his office, second by firing lightning that forced yoda to use all his energy to dissipate it. Sidious was still up and kicking and yoda's power was spent.

Amen. Additionally, the fight changed from the original script. Notice that it never mentions Palpatine moving from the Chancellor's Podium to a sentate pod before hurling other pods at Yoda. Likewise, it is entirely possible that Sidious merely deactivated his saber at some point after reaching a stalemate in saber skills. Plus, if the "Sith Lord looked to be doomed", why would Yoda jump onto a lower pod? The scene was changed and the original script sequences that were not included in the film or official novelization are non-canonical.


 * Ahem. Name the interview (or whatever the occasion) in which he said that Palpatine was the most powerful Force user (you can't, can you?). And you boys seem to be forgetting something - there is still the the Making of Revenge of the Sith in which Lucas explicitly states that only Mace and Yoda were able to compete with Sidious, and that includes beating him. THAT is something that you can't disproof; THAT is written canon. Furthermore, if you examine the part in which Lucas comments the fight between Sidious and Mace, you'll notice that he states that Palpatine was loosing when Anakin came in; exaggeration of his weakness came later. To make it short - take a walk :roll: Fingolfin The Elf King

If Sidious is the most powerful FORCE user then why in the final seconds of that battle did Yoda push back the most "POWERFUL FORCE USERS" own attack! Also Sidous Probally didnt deactiviate his lightsaber.... he most likley Got it KNOCKED out of his hands AGAIN.. becuase Sidious isnt Powerful just hotheaded and a cheater/pussy

Yoda's Species

 * In my opinion, we should create a new article called Yoda's Species or perchaps Species of Yoda that would be about their physical features, strong at the force, and list all know of them, then discuss the contraversy over them being suspected Whillis or what not. When/if the species is named, the article's content can be moved to a correctly titled article and move all the content. Then the three members of his species in the character box could have "Species: Unkown (see article on this topic here}" Anyway, just my suggestion. CptKenobi 00:17, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Any. Thoughts. On. This? CptKenobi 21:28, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * The fact that we only know about two of such species cannot make them basically strong in the Force. Yoda's species will probably never be named... by any canon source. - TopAce 21:31, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually we know of three in total: Yoda, Yaddle, and Vandar Tokare. Personally, I call his species Dagobans. I mean, he just seemed to fit in to Dagobah's surroundings, but I'm not calling for them to be refered to as such. However, I believe the article should mention something about Yoda's species has never been identified. -- SFH 21:39, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * There was one other one at Ruusan in JvS. Kuralyov 21:47, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I remember a reference in the last of the "Hand of Thrawn" duology to a race of mysterious aliens or monks of some kind that could travel through space faster then any hyperspace engine and it made an allusion to the Force I believe. My memory is kinda fuzzy and I don't have the book anymore but I was sure there was a conjecture about Yoda belonging to the race. Anyone have a better reference?--TheLIGHTSABERwieldingNERFHERDER 23:13, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Those are the Aing-Tii Monks. Deffinately not Yoda's species. -Jaymach Ral'Tir 23:19, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks Jay. Yes that be them, and definatly them not be Yoda's peeps. With the upcoming Star Wars TV series I dearly wish this mystery be solved. Even a novel or reference book with not do, I want to see a whole room full of moving little green super-force elves. :D--TheLIGHTSABERwieldingNERFHERDER 05:05, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Then Yoda will lose his mysteriousness and awesomeness. -- Riffsyphon1024 05:12, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)

TPM pic
Can someone make a screen capture from the ROTS DVD of the new digital Yoda for TPM (from the The Chosen One featurette)? Since that is now the canonical version, I thought it best to change the article accordingly. Adamwankenobi 05:50, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Wait. They made TPM Yoda digital now? What rock have I been hiding under? -- Riffsyphon1024 05:52, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes. Rob Coleman confirmed at the ROTS DVD press event that they went ahead and replaced the puppet in TPM with a digital one exactly like the one in AOTC and ROTS. You can even hear him say it himself on one of the hyperspace audiocasts at the OS. And you can even get a glimpse of the new TPM Yoda on The Chosen One featurette on the ROTS DVD.Adamwankenobi 06:00, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Yea I need to watch that second disc, however my DVD is hooked up to a TV that just crapped out last week. I could watch it on the PS2, but I'd have to get Battlefront II out of there first (not an easy thing to do). -- Riffsyphon1024 06:16, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * True. Adamwankenobi 06:21, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, they didn't replace the entire TPM Yoda. It was only for that specific scene - it was a test for the ROTS Yoda. (Just like they did a digital ESB Yoda as a test while making AoTC) Pretty much it was only that which you see in the featurette. And it's not canonical until a full version of TPM is released with that scene. It hasn't been, so it isn't. QuentinGeorge 07:29, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * No, Rob Coleman confirmed that they replaced Yoda for the ENTIRE movie. I will make a screenshot for this myself. Adamwankenobi 07:41, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * There. It's in the article. Adamwankenobi 07:50, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok so we have old Yoda and new Yoda. Hmm.

-- Riffsyphon1024 07:54, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Yep, and the old one looks like he's high compared to the new one. :P Adamwankenobi 08:10, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)

On the subject, any word on when the release of the updated TPM DVD is supposed to be? - Angel Blue 451 02:54, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Which means, of course, that I will have to purchase another copy. I hate being a completionist. I just hope the updated one will come individually as well... - Angel Blue 451 02:23, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC) "Now that Episode III is available on DVD, viewers can carefully examine the painstaking work of Animation Director Rob Coleman and his team that brought the many digital characters to life, including Jedi Master Yoda.
 * They wouldn't rerelease the movie just for that, so probably not until the big six-er is out. Glad I never got this DVD. =) CooperTFN 03:29, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Let's see what Coleman actually says:

To get his animation team back in prime shape for their work ahead on Episode III, Coleman says that they replaced the footage of the Episode I Yoda puppet with their Episode III digital model as a test to see how far they could push his usual performance boundaries. This footage worked its way into the DVD, where it can be see as part of "The Chosen One" featurette on Disc 2.

"We did that between Episodes II and III as an exercise to get the team back into the character," Coleman explains. "On Episode II, I was stressing about living up to what Frank [Oz] had created. A lot of our focus was on the final battle sequence between Yoda and Count Dooku. We had never seen Yoda do that before. In the process, we were learning about acting as animators. It was really exciting for me to have the team back again between Episode II and III. We used Episode I as a testbed because we didn't know what was going to be in Episode III, so we got the team back up to speed. We really honed our acting skills and, using that as a springboard, we moved right on to Episode III."
 * See? It was a test, not a remake of TPM. QuentinGeorge 05:25, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * But, at the ROTS DVD press event, when Rob Coleman was specifically asked if they were going to replace Yoda in TPM for a future release, Coleman replied "We've actually gone ahead and done that." (You can download and listen yourself on the OS.) That seems proof enough to me that they replaced the puppet for the entire film. Adamwankenobi 05:29, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * That casual comment is hardly confirmation of what you think it is. My quote is from homing beacon, and post-DVD release. All the press release comment confirms is that in the event of a TPM re-release, they won't have to put in work to do a new Yoda model, since they already did it during their ROTS pre-production test period. QuentinGeorge 05:31, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Then, if that's the case, then they plan to make the Yoda digital. Since we have no official confirmation that they already have, we can still use the screenshot from that clip, since it is likely the canon version of that clip. Adamwankenobi 05:38, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * What? There's no mention of any plans. Here's the gist of the question and answer.
 * Question: In the event of a re-release of TPM, will you go and do the work to replace the puppet Yoda?
 * Answer: We already have put in the work (as part of the test for ROTS).
 * Nothing here confirms a TPM re-release. It's entirely suppositional. QuentinGeorge 05:40, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * But, since that one clip has already been redone, we can use footage from it. It looks better anyway. Adamwankenobi 05:49, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)

my god...
That's what we've got in this article. Like I said, the Tales character is called Minch, not Yoda. And again, it's still not canon - Kwenn 20:27, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * as any one read Star Wars Tales #16?! if you had, you would know that this info, "In one such battle during the Clone Wars, Yoda confronted a Bpfasshi Dark Jedi on Dagobah. Yoda defeated the Dark Jedi, who died in a tree-cave. As a result, the cave became strong in the dark side of the Force." is incorrect. the comic, titled Heart of Darkness, clearly states that it took place in 700 BBY, 678 years before the clone wars. i'm changing it.-user:remoh
 * Sigh. Have you read LucasFilm's canon policy? If you had, you'd know that Tales stories are not canon. And anyway, the Jedi in that story is called Minch, not Yoda - Kwenn 20:19, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * well then how come the contents of the story are on yoda's exapanded universe bio on the official site? and if you can debunk that, unlikley, then how did yoda find out about it?-user:remoh
 * "Another tale of Yoda's past involves stopping a swath of destruction cut by Dark Jedi from Bpfassh. One of these dark siders had gotten as far as Dagobah, were Yoda bested him in direct confrontation. The Bpfasshi Jedi died, his dark Force absorbing into and twisting a nearby tree -- forming a dark side nexus. It is believed that Yoda chose Dagobah as his hiding place due to the dark side energies emanating from the tree. From a distance, Force-users like the Emperor would not detect Yoda since the master's bright light side presence would be canceled by the Bpfasshi dark side presence."
 * The Dark Jedi from Bpfasshi came from Heir to the Empire, written in 1991. You really want to prefer a Tales comic to the Holy Bible of the Expanded Universe? -- SFH 20:30, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry to piss on your parade, User:Remoh, but the New Essential Chronology confirms Yoda engaged the Bpfasshi Dark Jedi in the final year of the Clone Wars, just before the Battle of Praesitlyn - Kwenn 20:34, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * it must have been the second time, the OS article says it was it was part of yoda's past. PAST!!!!!! IT DOESN'T SAY CLONE WARS! i guess it's possible that he faced bpfasshi dark jedi again during the clone wars, but OS says he did it before the clone wars also. now i'm gonna ask you some questions.
 * 1. Ever think that "Minch" was just a nick-name for yoda back then? i mean he was a padawan among alot of jedi knights. they didn't exactly have to show him much respect as they had to in the prequels.
 * 2. So this story doesn't fit into the canon, even though it has support FROM THE OFFICIAL SITE but Routine is? it has no source!
 * 3. Are you trying to tell me, if you don't beleive my first question, that one character of yoda's species, apparently named minch, fought a bpfasshi dark jedi on dagobah, killed him in a tree cave, and changed the balance of the force, and apparantly 676 years later yoda happened to do the exact same thing? no. yoda may have fought another Bpfasshi dark Jedi on dagobah during the clone wars, but don't yoda would be able to fit the description of "minch" during 700 bby, when he was 196 years old?
 * Unless you have no futher objections, i am going put Heart of Darkness in the List of Tales stories with elements of continuity.-User:Remoh
 * No, I don't believe Minch killed a Dark Jedi, then Yoda done the same, because MINCH IS NOT CANON. And the Databank does not SPECIFICALLY state Yoda does not fight the Dark Jedi during the Clone Wars; from the POV of the OS, the Clone Wars could be 'in the past'. And besides, many Databank entries are woefully out-of-date, still using info from pre-AotC material, when the date of the Clone Wars wasn't set. The New Essential Chronology is the most up-to-date source, and SPECIFIES the EXACT DATE of this confrontation.
 * And no, don't put Heart of Darkness on that list. It CONTRADICTS official canon stated in the Chronology - Kwenn 22:19, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * oh, don't get techniccal with me kwenn. star wars tales stories base off of characters from the movies or major charcters from the expanded universe. therefore, minch is yoda's nickname when he was a padawan. therefore, the official sites info is correct. therefore Heart of Darkness is canon. i am fully aware that the databank has alot of out dated articles, but yoda is not one of them. if the first time was in the clone wars, then it would be in the paragraphs on the clone wars his expanded universe page. it has a official source, therefore it is canon. puting it on list.-User:Remoh
 * You don't understand; the Databank isn't agreeing with the Tales story, it's *contradicted* by it. The event mentioned in the Databank is the one mentioned in the Thrawn Trilogy and in Vision of the Future, which happened during the Clone Wars. jSarek 06:32, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Then that would mean these paragraphs are out of order, doesn't it?-user:remoh

as the OS says:

Another tale of Yoda's past(pay attention to this) involves stopping a swath of destruction cut by Dark Jedi from Bpfassh. One of these dark siders had gotten as far as Dagobah, were Yoda bested him in direct confrontation. The Bpfasshi Jedi died, his dark Force absorbing into and twisting a nearby tree -- forming a dark side nexus. It is believed that Yoda chose Dagobah as his hiding place due to the dark side energies emanating from the tree. From a distance, Force-users like the Emperor would not detect Yoda since the master's bright light side presence would be canceled by the Bpfasshi dark side presence.

Like all the Jedi, Yoda became a General in the Clone Wars, leading swarms of Republic clone troopers into battle against the Confederacy of Independent Systems. It was a tumultuous time for the Jedi. Some Jedi, disagreeing with the politics behind the war, left the order in protest. Recognizing that dissension in the Jedi ranks would make the order look weak to both the public and its enemies, Yoda was gravely concerned by these turns of events.
 * So? Many of the databank entries are not ordered in chronological order. Look at Saesee Tin's entry: one paragraph it is talking about his relationship with Anakin Skywalker, the next it is speaking about Tiin during the Stark Hyperspace War.
 * In summary: The Star Wars Tales story IS NON-CANONICAL. Deal with it. QuentinGeorge 09:26, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)