Talk:Lucien Draay/Archive1

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Section 1
So is he Lusion or Lucien? And where did the name come from, anyway? - Sikon [ Talk ] 18:47, 26 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Lusion came from a transcript of the unveiling of the KotOR comic series (IIRC, at Celebration III), and so the spelling was more of a guess than anything, and was posted as a placeholder - Kwenn 12:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Search
searching for Lucien doesn't go directly to this page. It goes to lucien. Should there be a re-direct?

Eye Color??
Is there a canonical eye color for Lucien? The infobox said brown, but I removed it because I can't tell from the comics. If anything, his eyes look blue to me. - Breathesgelatin 10:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Definately blue - Kwenn 10:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Kwenn! I thought so. - Breathesgelatin 10:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Lucien's Snide Remarks?
"Lucien met with the Jedi Council and informed them that he might as well have killed the Padawans of Taris."

Is this supposed to mean that Lucien was being sarcastic about the way he was being treated by the High Council or what? Could someone please be clear about what was happening during his meeting with the Master? I have not read the comics, and all the information I get comes from this website and the previews on DarkHorse.com, and this line just doesn't make sense.--Master Dakari 05:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't have it, either, but I heard Lucien confesses. - Sikon 06:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This was very difficult to put. Lucien says "I did it. I'm guilty. I killed the Padawans of Taris...or I might as well have. The dark side touched my Padawan -- and I failed to act." He confesses but then takes it back. Odd. -- Redemption Talk Uglykotoricon.svg 06:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In other words, he does confess without actually doing so. He is a sly one. He confesses to killing the Padawans, but not in the sense of how he actually did it, but instead by not taking action when he supposedly felt the dark side in Zayne. Hence, by his inaction, killing them through Zayne's supposed action. That's pretty smart thinking. Thanks, everyone! By the way, what happened to Lucien's baby picture? Call me a softy, but I think it was cute.--Master Dakari 06:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Darth Sion
After seeing Lucien Draay in KotOR #18 I've got a hunch that he IS indeed future Darth Sion. Also, their eyebrows are very same as well as their facial features...Darth Paulus 21:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

for more indepth debating on this subject, go to my user talk page.HK-47 rebuilt 17:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Lucien is definitely NOT Sion. According to the Star Wars RPG book for KotOR, Sion fought for the Sith during the Great Sith War. Lucien just a baby then, so there is no possibility of him becoming Sion. Jediphile 11:54, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well in Vindication 3 Hazen says he will become a sith and suggest two sith names, one of which is Darth Sion. --
 * Indeed he does. Problem is what to make of it, since the Knights of the Old Republic RPG campaign guide states quite clearly that Sion fought for the Sith during the Great Sith War. Either he will never take the name or else the campaign guide is incorrect. Not sure what to make of that now... Maybe future KotOR comic books will shed more light on the matter. Jediphile 13:18, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit: Ok, I believe it. In which case, we have a *major*retcon on our hands. --Kessel 22:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Good thing it happened within a month. :P I think the CG was just a red herring intentionally tossed in there to end theories then BAM. Cool stuff. Revan211 23:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I hate to speculate, but me thinks the Darth Sion mentioned in the Campaign Guide was another Sion, as there must always be a Darth Traya. Darth Sion I and Darth Sion II, for example. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point, but the Sion portrayed in the CG image was undoubtedly the same Sion as appears in KotOR II. It seems to me that what we have here is just bad management... --Kessel 16:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe Haazen thought of the name because he never knew Sion existed or didn't know that he's still alive. DarthWill3 15:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I say we better listen to John Jackson Miller himself: "The surprises aren't over, folks -- don't hit "edit" on those Wikis yet!"

- John Jackson Miller

Mauser 15:21, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly. This issue only confirmed that he could be Darth Luzion as much as Darth Sion. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 16:19, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see... so he's going to brew up a massive twist. ^^ I like that.--Kessel 17:20, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Birth
What's the source for his 4,000 BBY birth date?--Jedi Kasra 03:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Redemption added it, a fairly reliable user. If I were to guess, I'd say it was the KOTOR handbook. QuentinGeorge 03:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fairly reliable? I resent that. Anyway, the exact line is "Lucien Draay was born on th what would become a dark day for all involved. That day, Jedi Ulic Qel-droma had his first contact with the dark side in the Beast Wars." Kinda chilling. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 04:56, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Total Speculation, but I agree with this. Lucien is a "Scion" of a noble family and it would seem a fitting source for the name Darth Sion. In addition, if his mother, Krynda, turns out to be Kreia/Darth Traya, then Sion's and Traya's relationship would make sense. It's certainly possible that Lucien learned the technique of holding one's body together posthumously form his mentor Haazen. Evidence for Krynda being Traya includes that Krynda was known as the "eyes of the Jedi" and she was half Miraluka, and Traya's eyes atrophy (not a normal human trait), and she sees with the force. They have similar personalities and feelings about Lucien and Darth Sion respectively. Speculation, but interesting none-the-less and I think worth considering now that Alec is indeed Malak and the Revanchist Leader acknowledged as revan. 75.16.57.230 11:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)IDAHO75.16.57.230 11:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Darth Nihilus
I have found evidence on Lucien Draay and Darth Nihilus being the same man. We have facts and without them, talk pages would be no more than a guessing game. Here are the Facts:

1. Lucien never received visions of his death in issue 5. Fact!

2. As a kid, Lucien complained about the Miraluka's "inability to see" in issue 9. Fact!

3. Lucien asked Zayne "why would he be exposed to the dark side" in issue 20. Fact!

Now, fellow users, what is the inescapable conclusion? - Will Karner 11:21 P.M., 15, November 2007
 * It's not fact, it's speculation. - Sikon 04:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The inescapable conclusion is that you need to stop adding fan-wank into articles. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 12:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but Lucien did protest the Miraluka's Force sight and Visas said that Nihilus wanted her people to "see!" Honest! This is a very important piece of evidence! They have to be the same dude.

Of course, there are reasons why Lucien wouldn't join the dark side. If he did, what would his mom think? He would ruin everything she had created for in order to stop the Sith's return. He'd also be betraying his friends, including Q'Anilia. She maybe a Miraluka, but she and Lucien have been friends since youngling-hood. However, you know what Scar would say, "Long live the King (Jedi)!"

Look, I take Star Wars very seriously and you better find what you call "speculations" as interesting discoveries. Also, give me other reasons why Lucien couldn't turn evil, please. I don't know how to explain them. - Will Karner 1:15 P.M., 25 November 2007
 * Speculations, no matter how interesting, are just that. Speculations. Keep it off the talk pages and off the articles. It's getting very tiresome seeing every single talk page filled with your speculative shit. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 18:21, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Watch your language, buster! - Will Karner 6:01 P.M., 25 November 2007

listen i find the lucien/ nihlus connection very interseting. i am writind a novel on the jedi exile. now im not going fully into the previous identites of sion,traya, and nihilus, but i will be implying some things. if you want to go into a strong debate, i am using my talk page for such, where "speculation" as well as constructive critisim is welcome. if you wish to comment on the previos lives of these three sith, or the book itself, then go here.HK-47 rebuilt 17:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Lucien is Nihilus anymore and it now points me to his old buddy, Arkoh Adasca (a.k.a Kreia's possible evil kid brother). We could see that Nihilus and Kreia's eyes were black during her time in the dark side, so I would take shrill guess that they were Arkanian and each had a different eye condition from the other as they fall. Also, let's not forget that Haazen mentioned the word "hunger" when talking about Arkoh in issue #18 and it's starting to make sence now... Nihilus was probably deformed badly by the dark side (far worse than Sion) before or after arriving at retrieving the Ravager at Malachor V and wore robes and a mask to hide what has happened to him. But before we confirm this, we need more facts and evidence on this search. (Hope you're getting this, HK-47 rebuilt). 216.175.57.2 18:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Adasca was not Force-sensitive. Also, both Kreia and Nihilus have five fingers; Arkanians do not unless they're offshoots, but offshoots do not have "blank" eyes. Whilst it's an interesting theory, I believe there is a far greater weight of evidence against it than for it. --Kessel 19:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Arkoh might still be alive out there, only in a bad condition after the struggle with the exogorths. Also, we really never saw his dead body onboard, did we? He probably just gone "abandon ship," whether he had the Force or not. And if I know Haazen, Arkoh must have been his accomplice/apprentice while trying to get rid of Lucien. We don't know if he was Force-sensitve yet, but if he was Nihilus and related to Kreia, he'd have betrayed when she was a Jedi and again when they were both Sith Lords. 12.179.11.22 21:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So... Arkoh Adasca, a minor antagonist from the comics, suddenly sprouts a couple of new fingers, realizes Force potential that neither of his parents seem to have manifested, and goes apesh*t on Katarr with his... sister? Look, it's a nice theory to a point, but then it just falls to pieces. --Kessel 02:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Amen to that!!! -- Ve-Sioux Ordo 02:03, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Lucien or Lucius?
I know you guys think Lucien was probably named after the dude from The Count of Monte, but to me he looks a lot like the actor Jason Isaacs a.k.a. Lucius Malfoy. I mean, look at his face: Does it seem familiar to you? Lucien and Malfoy have the same hair color, the same sneakiness, and the same doubts about other people: Lucien doubted about the Miraluka and Malfoy despises about the Muggle-Born.

And if I were you, I'd assume that Lucien would have a British accent as well. - Will Karner 4:34 P.M., 18 November 2007
 * Really. You are really going to have to stop posting this nonsense crap on the talk pages. This is NOT what talk pages are for. And for the record, JJM has made this comment: Lucien’s look on panel two of page four is my favorite shot of him, yet. We’ll cast Rutger Hauer in the movie… -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 21:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Sorry, I didn't know about that comment. And by the way, there's going to be a KOTOR movie? - Will Karner 6:01 P.M., 18 November 2007
 * Not in the foreseeable future. -LtNOWIS 23:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Now I'll show you that Lucien's referenced to Lucius Malfoy. Here:

If you look closely, you'll see that the head shapes are a lot similar, even if one's real-life and the other's illustrated. I would like to thank the dude who brought up the Lucius image.- Will Karner 7:40 P.M., 23 November 2007

Q'Anilia
Is it just me, or do Lucien and Q'Anilia have a rather... well... intimate relationship. Evidently there's innuendo they share the same bed chambers?

yea I think there a couple.

Mysterious fate
Since Lucien was on the Council, we could mention that he wasn't present at the banishment of the Jedi Exile. But was he killed or exiled during the last three years of the Mandalorian Wars? 216.175.57.2 18:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * True, he wasn't at the exile. But since we have zero proof of Lucien's fate, not even in visions, it'd be best to wait until we get something more concrete to work with. For all we know he could have survived, or been redeemed, and be somewhere else in the galaxy. --Revan Averre 03:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you expect? He's a Jedi Guardian. Never had any visions in his life. 131.109.225.3 15:35, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * By the looks of things, Zayne has Lucien's lightsaber in issue 37. Maybe that's a clue to his fate...
 * I, personally, think that either one of these two things happened:
 * Lucien gave Zayne his lightsaber after the events of Vindication and became Darth Nihilus, because he lost everything: his mother, his friends, his high council seat... and that is what nihil means. Nothing.
 * Zayne heroically defeated Haazen and Lucien, the former becoming Darth Sion and Lucien becoming Nihilus, and Zayne was knighted for his heroic actions as he should have been at the start of the series, thus giving him an actual lightsaber. The plot summary for KotORs 35-37 all state that Zayne is a "former Padawan".
 * I'm not trying to speculate, just putting in what seems likely to clear up a good question. I know I will be proved either right or wrong eventually. 216.195.184.65 19:45, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, man. I highly agree with you. By the looks of his rage, it sure looks like old Lucius himself is his way towards the dark side. He'd likely be exiled for his actions and head straight to Malachor V, where the Mass Shadow Generator would activate and change his image 3 years later.
 * As for the weapon bit, Zayne's lightsaber must have been destroyed by Force lightning or something like that. So after the battle, Zayne would probably find Lucien's lightsaber and replace the damaged yellow crystal with Lucien's own blue one.
 * For now, let's move on to the present and focus on the facts. Agreed? DarthWill3 03:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Image=spoiler?
Who put the final image of Lucien in KotOR #35 on the page? Not that I mind it being here, but it seems pretty pointless to put a big spoiler warning on top of the page and then forcefeed people with an image that completely and utterly spoils his fate so far in the series? I would suggest the image be moved to the bottom of the page to where his fate in issue 35 is actually described and the main image be replaced by a more conventional image of Lucien. Jediphile 02:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Image Change
I don't know if Lucien's main image is the best image to use for this article. It doesn't encapsulate how Lucien really was I'd compare to the Rahm Kota article. Kota suffered nearly the same injuries as Lucien, yet we use the image as he was prior to his injuries because they did not change him dramatically. I recommend that his main image be changed back to what it was previously. PointGiven 05:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)PointGiven