Talk:Dark side of the Force/Legends

Shouldn't all the Star Wars Episodes be added to appearances since it is talked about and shown in them?!
 * Splendid idea, chap. 68.225.242.19 14:34, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

Jensaarai
Do you think we should add them to the practitioners list? JethLordMaster
 * I don't think the organisation as a whole was Dark Side, at least not during I, Jedi. They were more like grey. Evir Daal 09:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't even think they were really grey; they were pretty much just lightsiders with a poor grasp of history. It'd be like a bunch of isolated people showing up in society wearing Klan robes because they were taught that the KKK was a force for freedom and equality.  They wouldn't be evil, they'd just be *seen* in a very bad light until someone showed them the error of their ways. jSarek 10:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, they were grey, beacuse they didn't fight for the good of all, but only for their own kin, I think Luke Skywalker said as much in the book. But anyway, they clearly weren't Darksiders, and you illustrated the point very well. Evir Daal 10:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Corruption of the Dark Side
I was thinking that the corruption fo the Dark Side Section should be moved above the list of Dark Side Practitioners. To me it seems like a more logical flow and other pages have all the talk at the begining with lists at the bottom. Let me know. If I don't here from anyone I'll go ahead and change it in a week or so. Redjetta 19:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Practitioners
I've been doing a lot of editing and I was putting in all the dark side practitioners as I thought of them. I was thinking that that could become a very long list so I'm trying to keep it to notable members of established organizations. Let me know your thoughts. Also, if anyone knows the name of the Sith Sect that recreated Darth Maul to fight Darth Vader let me know or put it in. Thanks. Josh

Its Josh again. and I'm wondering why a lot has been added to the pracitioners section? Do we really need to know that there was a red-armored sith lord. If he had a name and he was important I think so, but this isn't a list of all the Sith Lords. Redjetta 00:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Force cloak
Why is force cloak in the darkside powers list. As far as I know, its strictly neutral. After all, Jedi Watchmen use it the same as Sith Assassins. Varas Halcyon 15:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Deformity
Is there any high-canon proof that the dark side causes deformity? Anakins eyes on ep. 3 are undisputable, but Palps face is not. Are there any canon sources except KotOR that makes this statement? And even so, it does not seem to befall all dark side practitioners (Vader at the end of ep. 6, or Darth Maul).
 * Normally it seems to be on a small scale (teeth, eyes, skin), but when it is used too much in too little time it causes the user to age extremely quickly or become deformed (or both), though not always permanently (Luke, Jacen, Sidious). --Sauron18 07:45 27 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Vader looked kind of deformed in the end of RotJ to me. Anyway, as for deformity, it typically comes slowly and only after prolonged exposure to the dark side, though extreme doses accelerate the process. And there is a fair lot of canon evidence, the Nightsisters and King Ommin of Onderon to name two cases. Another would be Palpatine, whose body decayed at such a rate that he was forced to transfer his consciousness to clones. Evir Daal 07:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's just with certain practitioners, who use it in different ways. Nihilus, for instance, consumed things...kinda, with the Force, and everyone around him, bar Visas, were deformed. .  .  .  .  08:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Had that anything to do with the dark side? I thought he simply stole their life energy, and that was why they looked sick. Evir Daal 09:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Dark side powers
Shouldn't this list have certain caveats about where this information comes from...or even... "According to ..." etc? Some of these are on the outer fringes of canon.
 * All of the sources for these are canon, so no. If anyone wants to know where they're from, they can easily find out. -LtNOWIS 03:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Force Heal
Now i was wondering about force heal, I understand that its there because of the plaguis thing, but is that power ever actually called force heal? and even if it is we should probably mentinon something about plaguis around it so peole dont mix it up with the light side heal. --Darth Malice 17:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Vader could use the dark side to heal himself in Shadows of the Empire. Evir Daal 07:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Existence of the Dark Side
As I recall, this is a matter of G-Level canon, stated explicitly by George Lucas. How can there be any doubt whatsoever that it exists? Jachra 21:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

It is speaking of those within the Star Wars universe who believe that there is no part of the Force that is inherently light or dark.
 * That works! Jachra 09:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Picture
The Jedi Exile page states that that image is non-canon. So, according to our contemporary rules about using only canon images, it should be replaced with something else. . - TopAce 15:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I propose we replace it with the picture of Sidious, Sadow, and Bane that's at the bottom of the page. JethLordMaster 18:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC-8)

Rewrite?
This page is in serious need of work. It is mostly just a pair of lists and some meandering paragraphs. I move that as a community we should try to make a new format for this page, and possibly completely rewrite it. Revan&#39;s Bane 19:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You might want to consider nominating it for an improvement drive then. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 19:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Force Heal?
In Shadows of the Empire, Darth Vader used his anger and the Dark Side to temporarily heal himself from the horrible burns he had suffered. Can the Dark Side be used for healing, and if so, is it worth to mention here? Evir Daal 08:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Does my Sion thumbnail count? Revan&#39;s Bane 04:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of Force Powers, aren't some of these like force wave neutral? That was usedd extensively by Jedi Revan&#39;s Bane 05:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Bad NPOV
A lot of this article sounds like it was written by lightside fanboys. And I'm not talking about the general article quality. I just read Wikipedias dark side philosophy article before going over this, and while they left out some important canon, and brought in a bit much OOU/IRL stuff, their page is at least very neutral, and the philosophy section is very broad and informative. Personally, I'm ashamed that this Wiki does not have a better page about something as essential as the dark side than wikipedia does. Though, I'll admit this might come from a general fear of touching this little piece of coal, what with all the controversy surrounding it, and all the interpretation we'll inevitably have to do on account of the elusive nature of this subject.

Heh. Even in real life, the dark side becomes a point of conflict and taboo.DarthMRN 01:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * To get things rolling I will pull some theories out of my backside, if only to provoke editing.DarthMRN 22:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It's "dark side", not "Dark Side"
Why is dark side capitalised so much, when every Star Wars product I have seen (barring comics, which has everything in upper case) has made a point of using the lower case? .(Ulicus 10:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC))
 * Fixed. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There was a huge debate on this like a year ago, but I can't find it. -LtNOWIS 00:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement
I thought that it would be a good idea to list some topics here that we could discuss to be possibly incorporated into this article. (Of course, other suggestions could be added!)
 * The Rakata
 * The Star Forge
 * The Force Wars
 * The Second Great Schism
 * Info from the Halbret article
 * Third Great Schism

---Jaywin


 * Maybe only notible things with huge impact for the dark side or the article will get too complicated. The Star Forge would be included with the Rakata though... China 02:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Changes
Oi, I've made some changes...I can tell the author had good thoughts, but it still seemed biast in certin parts (I tried to fix that) and had some weird sentences that I had to completely rewrite to make them flow better. There is a lot of compaire and contrast which should be taken down to a minimum. I understand the dark side is different from the light side, but one sentence says that better than a full paragraph with sentences restating what was already said. I'll try to fix this, but it might make some places shorter. Okay? China 00:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Me again, okay so I did some major changes, including taking out a lot of the names and factions listed in the end of the article since they were not mentioned in the main body of the article. I only left the names that were named in the article to make it flow better. We did not need a complete list, I referred the readers to another article to get that. This article is merely about the dark side NOT every little detail that's spun from it. That'd be way too long and very messy. I also replaced the picture at the top, as it was not canon (per the earlier discussion above...) Ciao. China 02:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Force Powers
Ok I noticed Quy-Tek(Force Concealmeant) and Force wave are in the article for Dark Side Powers. IMHO(In My Humble Opinion) they should be neutral or universal because your not drawing the Dark Side of the Force for those powers. You draw from the Force itself.

For example Force push is the weakeast version of Force Wave so it should be core or universal. Force Concealment should be neutral too because it doesn't draw from the Dark Side. Unless I Missed something this should be changed. Forgive me if this was already brought up.

Kuradedo 02:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Good idea, when I edited the article I kept the force powers but added that these are commonly considered dark side powers...there should be a clear defination on what is or isn't a certin side power. &lt;3 China! 04:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sith taken out of dark side?
I was just wondering if maybe the Sith should be toned down in the dark side article? The Sith have their own article and, really, only need to be mentioned as they are only one aspect of the dark side of the force. It seems the article is too heavily dependant on the Sith order, while there are many other orders who were considered part of the dark side too. The original article had names of members, but nothing on the actual factions, so I took the names out. Any ideas? &lt;3 China! 18:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless things have changed since last I checked, we don't have an article about the Sith Philosophy. This article covers some essentials. So unless we make a philosophy article about the Sith and darksiders in general, it should stay.DarthMRN 03:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought it would of been in the Sith section, but I guess I was wrong. &lt;3 China! 05:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a small brekadown of the Sith Phliosophy in the Force article, but it redirects here for a main article. Otherwise, I wouldn't be opposed to moving the Sith philosophy stuff to that article.DarthMRN 15:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Jacen and NJO
We might want to add something about the NJO philosophy with the dark side. Also, some notes on Jacen becoming a Sith might be interesting. Geekboy42


 * Eh...maybe the NJO philosophy, but they can read about Jacen in his article. I'm wanting to take out a lot of the Sith references already because they already have their own article, and with the same information it's just redundant. Sorry to the author also, I don't want to redo his whole article, but it seems so dependant on one dark side organization...&lt;3 China! 17:25, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Existencialism
Can anyone explain, justify, or quote something relevant to the conection between the dark side philosophy and the real world existentialist philosophy? I don´t see such conection, specially taking into account the appeal to responsability on J.P. Sartre´s writings... I do see a conection to Nietzche, though, but in the wikipedia article quoted, Nietzche is being listed as an existentialist first but then considered an influence and not a part of the "movement"... And the differences between his thoughts and the Sartre-Camus-etc. line are big enough to make them distinct.

Connections to real philosophy are very much a matter to debate, so i´ll delete such phrase and wait to see if anyone brings it back with good arguments... (Signed: Gorsh )
 * That one was mine. Not because I know a whole lot of existensialism, but because Wikipedia's dark side article made this comparison, and upon checking it, I could only agree. From what I recall, it seemed very relevant. However, if you are more versed in this branch of philosophy, and feel that the similarities are too greatly outwheiged by the differences, then sure. Delete, delete.DarthMRN 02:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

H ey does anyone think this Quote is good for this artical?
...the Force is not a shield to protect the useless... but is, in reality, a weapon... to empower the worthy! " —Desann to Kyle Katarn

I think personaly it represents the Dark Side very well Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 23:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If you mean use this for the head quote, then no. I personally like the current one better. -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 23:44, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it would work well in the article, though.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 23:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The current one's OOU though. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * How so?-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 13:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Added. And no, the top quote isn't OOU... - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 13:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My mistake, someone changed it after the last time I checked. It was previously a narrative quote from the RoTS novel. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)