Talk:Mira

Mira a Mandalorian?
There is evidance that Mira, in a way, is a Mandalorian. I'm not sure if it's alright to quote from the game, but I have seen other talk pages with game quotes, so I assume I can quote from the game. Below is from a conversation between the Exile and Mira:

Exile: You're a Mandalorian?

Mira: As much as any slave becomes a Mandalorian. They took prisoners on every world they conqured to bolster their ranks- and they took a lot of worlds.

Exile: You were a slave?

Mira: When I was young, yeah. They mostly used me to carry ammo packs and munitions. Toward the end of the war, they needed everyone they could get. They taught me to fight, to hunt, to survive. I was part of their squad, even when I was young. Everyone served as part of the unit, and I felt like I had a place there."

Based on that, if Mira was trained by the Mandalorians, was part of the squad, and she felt like she had a place there, that makes her a Mandalorian.

The Mandalorians "took prisoners to bolster their ranks", in other words, turned them into Mandalorians. And Mira started out as a slave, but then became part of the squad, and was taught by the Mandalorians. If you ask me, I say Mira is at least in some way a Mandalorian. From what I understand, if you join a Mandalorian clan, and are trained as a Mandalorian, you therefore become a Mandalorian.

Also, didn't Kreia say something about Mira's "true father"? a possible a clue that her father was a Mandalorian (just speculation).

I think the article should say that Mira is a Mandalorian, or at least that she was raised/trained by Mandalorians (which in my opinion, makes her a Mandalorian)

70.17.134.221 05:10, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I say she is a Mandalorian, i mean, Mira was taught how to fight like a Mandalorian, hunt like a Mandalorian, and survive like a Mandalorian, and was accepted as a part of a Mandalorian squad, and felt like she "had a place there". To me, that says she is Mandalorian.

I don't know Kreia's exact words, but she did say somthing about Mira, like: "she is not a predator, unlike her true father" or somthing like that. If Mira's true father was a "predator", that would seem to imply that her father may be Mandalorian. If so, then Mira is definitly Mandalorian. Either way, I say if she was raised and taught by the Mandalorians, and was part of the sqaud, that makes her at least partly Mandalorian.

JediMasterRevan 14:24, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * This brings up an interesting point. Is a Mandalorian a species different than humans (IE: Twi'leks, Rodians, etc) or are they just a specially trained human? CptKenobi 21:29, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * The first Mandalorians were a species, also called the Taung. Later, the Mandalorians started accepting warriors of other species into their ranks. Not only humans, although they were the most common. - Sikon [ Talk ] 04:08, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Zeitgeist 10:50, 25 Mar 2006

It is generally accepted that although Mira may not consider herself to be a Mandalorian, her being raised in that culture, and even going so far as to say that her family died at Malachor makes her one by default. Given that the Mandalorian species or Taung, as JediMasterRevan correctly quotes, did accept other species, predominantly human as we've seen into the Mandalore clans it's highly likely that she'd be considered a Mandalorian by others of her clan and even outside it.

-There's only one factor that would prove or disprove Mira being a Mandalorian. Was she ever taught Mando'a, the language of the Mandalorians? Because Mando'a seems to be an equalizer for them. Mandalorians can be from any species, but as long as they fully integrate themselves into their society, and that includes becoming fluent in Mando'a, they're a Mandalorian. Hitokiri Akins 01:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not so in older cultures before the death of Mandalore the Ultimate it was mandatory, in Mira's time it was right around there so she probably spoke a good amount but as soon as the last Taung Mandalore died out, it was no longer required. General M. Veers 13:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)General M. Veers Ni Mand'alor! Kendosii!
 * Doesn't it state in Triple Zero that Mandalorians adopted war ophans and raised them as Mandos? RC-1187 07:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it does. Also, I think Kal Skirata was an orphan who was adopted and raised as a Mandalorian. And Mira herself said she was raised and trained by the Mandalorians, and that they accepted her as a member of their squad, so I'd say she was adopted too, and therefore is a Mandalorian


 * Mandalorian is a culture, not a race or bloodline what about Jango Fett? He was adopted and considered a Mandalorian. So isn't about the same for Mira? -Aiddat 21:10, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Fett's family was an exmando farming family on the mando world of Concord Dawn. By 'ex' i mean that his ancient relative Cassus fett was a mando, in fact he was Lord Mandalore the Ultimate's top strategist. But yes Mira is a Mando. General M. Veers 13:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)General M. Veers

Then if you ask her if they died in the final battle she says: "I think so. After Revan crushed the Mandalorians, planets throughout the Republic were flooded with refugees. I was just one of the others." Then you ask her how she could have lost family at Malachor V, she responds with: "Take a guess, "Jedi". Only two groups of people would have lost family at Malachor - and Jedi don't have families." Others have already mentioned that she was trained by them, and served in a squad. It seems pretty obvious to me that she is a Mandalorian. As for this "true father" thing, I think Canderous might be her father. I don't claim to actually know, it's just a thought. Dargos 18:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Mira is a Mandalorian, she says so herself. I don't have an exact quote, but when you ask her about what happened to her family she says: "Well, the war happened, the first one, against the Mandalorians. Had family right up until the end. It's not really a new story - you hear it all over the galaxy."


 * Perhaps, I kinda like that idea but wouldn't Canderous say something, unless its like that never seen my daughter except when she was a newborn boba-ailyn relationship. Ni Mand'alor ven shuku gar shebs! Mand'alor! General M. Veers 13:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)General M. Veers

Class
IF you train mira, what is her jedi Class? I am always at the end of the game when I get mira so I dont have time to gain influence - Dark Lord Revan
 * She becomes a Jedi Sentinel. Sith Lord 04:55, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * For future questions of this kind, you may consider the official Obsidian forums. Talk pages are used for discussing development of the articles, not for general questions. - Sikon [ Talk ] 04:56, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I was going to put it in the article-Dark Lord Revan

Her Family
today, while playing KOTOR II, it was mentioned in dialogue bw Mira and Exile her family died on Malachor V. I assume she meant her "adopted" Mandalorian clan?JustinGann 07:38, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Zeitgeist 10:56, 25 Mar 2006

I seem to recall several months ago that there were several threads on Obsidian's own forums dedicated to the idea that Mira was supposedly Canderous/Mandalore's daughter. Whether or not this theory was backed up by unused content located in the KOTOR files I don't remember, but it would shed new light on both Canderous and Mira, it is generally known that Mandalore's influence in KOTOR II would explain various aspects of his life and may have hinted at his having a daughter, as well as his journey with Revan.

Mira, slave girl?
Didn't a Trandoshan bounty hunter who tells you about all the hunters on Nar Shadda, say that Hannhar enslaved Mira at one point?

Yes, our dear informat did indeed say that. How so, I do not know, for Mira never mentions it. ELV

Canonically a Jedi?
The Exile CAN train his companions to become Jedi. They don't *necessarily* become Jedi(at least not during the game) as a part of the game's story. Therefore, whilst it might *end up* being canon - we cannot say that it is yet. Unless L.Chee or someone has said something I'm not aware of recently...(Ulicus 23:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)) While I'd argue that once they're trained, they *are* Jedi (only apprentices mind you), my point is what Kwenn said. We do not know for certain if the Exile trained them throughout KotoR II, since there has been pretty much no word on what's canon. Personally, I don't train them - because how *anyone* without the surname of 'Skywalker' can become so good so fast escapes me. Really, it makes no sense in the context of Star Wars - so that it's being accepted as 'canon' so eagerly is rather disturbing. The light side *ending* might be canon, but that doesn't mean that every choice along the way is.(Ulicus 12:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)) Aye. That I did, though I think I'll just stick to Bastila. Calling Atris a Jedi is a bit much, the Sithy minx. Is Bastila a Jedi Master by KotoR 2? Does she have the authority to create technical Jedi?
 * Just because Exile trains them doesn't mean they become Jedi. - Sikon [ Talk ] 04:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Because Kreia calls them the "Lost Jedi" the Jedi on which the New Order will founded upon. --Redemption 04:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Later. After the game. It may be years. When she was speaking this, they were technically rag-tag Force users running around with copies of Idiot's Guide to Jedihood in their pockets. Figuratively speaking, of course. - Sikon [ Talk ] 04:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't see how a time factor has anything to do with whether they should be counted as Jedi or not. Kuralyov 04:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the complaint is more about how people tend to presume that Exile's training, alone, automatically makes them Jedi. Which is not true because Exile technically was no longer a Jedi to begin with. - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Exile did turn them into Jedi. I'm pretty sure the strategy guide (which is a canon source) says so. Also, Mira, and all the others, reciceved a Jedi rank during the game, after the Exile trained them. (Mira became a Jedi Sentinel, Brianna became a Jedi Gaurdian). So if they had actual Jedi ranks during the game, then it was the Exile's training that turned them into Jedi (otherwise they wouldn't have Jedi ranks). 151.203.184.48 13:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * But that's a gameplay choice, not part of the actual story. You can train them, in the same way you can turn to the dark side, or you can kill Jan Ors in Jedi Outcast. Doesn't make it canon - Kwenn 13:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm mistaken, the most extreme light side choices/version of events, is the Canon version of the story. And if the Exile training his party members as Jedi is part of the "most extrmeme light side version of events", then the Exile training Mira and the others as Jedi is canon. 151.203.184.48 13:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever the strategy guide says applies to gameplay mechanics. They "were" Jedi in the game, in a sense that their classes were Jedi Consular/Sentinel/Guardian. But Darth Nihilus and Sion were also Jedi Guardians in-game - should we count them as Jedi too? They were not officially Jedi, as they were trained by a non-Jedi and not approved by the Council. End of story. And by the way, Exile's alignment isn't set, LS is only presumed, but neither LS nor DS is currently canon. - Sikon [ Talk ] 13:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Jedi apprentices are selected by the Jedi Order itself. To repeat, Exile, not being a Jedi, couldn't have Jedi apprentices. I don't know why so many people fail to see this point. - Sikon [ Talk ] 12:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I see the point, but I think you're being a little too strict in your definition of "Jedi" there. The Exile *assuming he's light side*, IS a Jedi. The Jedi Order, especially with the cowering Council that they have by TSL - really aren't in any position to be making judgements on who's a 'real' Jedi and who's not. In every sense that matters, LS Exile is a Jedi. As for the companions... well, if you're learning the "ways of the Jedi", then you're on your road to becoming a Jedi. If the Exile was just teaching them "how to tap into the Force", it would be different, but he's specifically passing down Jedi techniques and Jedi skills. I mean, I suppose from a purely *technical* standpoint, you're correct. Only the Order can bestow the title of Jedi apprentice/padawan/knight, and since the Exile is an 'exiled Jedi', he's "not a Jedi", as you rightly said. But I think that truly 'being a Jedi' is more than just having a title. Whatever. I don't even really care about that - all I'm bothered about is that the article says the Exile trains Mira, when he doesn't necessarily do so.(Ulicus 23:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC))
 * By Jedi, I mean, and Wookieepedia means, those — and only those — who were technically Jedi. Whether the Order was "in the position" to dictate anything is irrelevant. - Sikon [ Talk ] 06:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. But since all the other Jedi (except perhaps Atris/Bastila) die, then... how can there ever be any more technical Jedi? The Exile is the new 'founding figure' of the Jedi by the end of KotOR II, and the people who have been trained certainly think they're Jedi, call themselves Jedi and eventually train more Jedi - which leads us to the prequel era. Since none of them were ever declared Jedi by the Order as it stood before them however, I guess that means none of the prequel era are technical Jedi? :P Whatever. I'm just playing devil's advocate. (Ulicus 12:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC))
 * You answered your question with "(except perhaps Atris/Bastila)". - Sikon [ Talk ] 13:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. Where's the Wookiepedia policy on technical and non-technical Jedi listed anyway?

(Thinks) Why am I even getting involved in this part of the debate? Like I said, I don't train the Exile's companions, so whether or not they'd be considered 'Jedi' is irrevelant for me. We know that they end up becoming Jedi... (I think), but yeah, it's fair to say that even when you train them, they don't become proper Jedi 'in game'.

They're, uh... um... Jedi In Waiting? Psuedo-Jedi? Jedi Wannabes?

Gah! I think we can agree, regardless of what they're called, that the Exile's training is what sets them on the path *towards* Jedi Knighthood. (217.135.130.100 04:39, 27 May 2006 (UTC)) < That was me. Tired, just got in from town. Not writing at 100% sobriety. Obviously. (Ulicus 04:41, 27 May 2006 (UTC))

She has not been confirmed to have been trained on Nar Shadaa in a canon source though. While the strategy guide says that she can be, the strategy guide also calls Atris the new darth Traya. just my opinion. Gotoisevil
 * At the moment, it doesn't matter, but lets think about this a moment, no Star Wars game official ending has ever been a DS ending, so more than likely KOTOR II has a LS ending, male or female Exile doesn't matter; so I would safely say that the Exile's companions, whoever they are including Mira, will at some point become official Jedi Knights in some compacity, and it is probable that the "Lost Jedi" rebuilt the order. User:RushinSundaws 12:14, 27 May 2006
 * No one's denying the probability of a LS ending. The key word there though, is *ending*. Who's to say your LS Exile trained anyone? I think it's likely that, if it is the LS, it will be assumed that the Exile trained his/her companions, but it shouldn't really be in the article as fact until we know what's what.(195.92.168.175 15:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC))
 * And Sikon, by your own reasoning, the entire NJO is invalidated.(Not that that's neccesarily a bad thing...)SithPower 13:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately not, because Luke was given the title of Jedi Knight by the Grand Master of the Old Jedi Order and he started the New Jedi Order... (Ulicus 17:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC))
 * Jedi or not - she is still excellent sexy eye candy! (Mikda Fopal)
 * I believe it is canon that the Exile eventually trains them.

"They were the lost Jedi. The true Jedi upon which the new order will be built." -- Kreia

Something to that extent. -- Redemption Talk 23:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

So by Sikon's definition, Luke Skywalker WAS NOT a Jedi... After all he wasn't officially approved by the Council (Yoda does not a council make) and never passed the trials or was a padawan. At no point was he officially declared a jedi by anyone other than himself and his enemies. And yet he was a Jedi and went on to found the new order..