Forum:CT Archive/Wookieepedia and the Licensed Insider Video Proposal: Time to Vote!

So, as we discussed in this SH thread, at CVI we were offered the opportunity to utilize licensed videos for behind-the-scenes content. The best way to implement this would be to have a dedicated video upload account, while uploads are disabled for the rest of the userbase. This way, we can monitor that account and upload what we need through it, and would be certain that what's being uploaded is what we want, and not some goofy "Funniest Star Wars Moments" video. For more information on this, check the aforementioned SH thread, as I'd rather avoid repeating myself.

The discussion in that thread was mostly in favor of this option, so it's time to finally put it to a vote. Here is what you're voting on:


 * Eric Moro, Director of Programming, Entertainment, can get us licensed videos
 * A dedicated account would be created to upload these videos (Up to you what droid we should name it after):
 * Only this account would be able to upload videos
 * Preferably, it should be sysop-only, but I'll leave that up to you
 * Only approved videos would be uploaded
 * Video offerings would be viewed on video.wikia.com prior to upload here
 * Perhaps organize a small committee for video review, or set up requirements or something
 * Videos would be used for behind-the-scenes content

I'll divide this up, because it's a lot to think about.  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Do we want these videos?
It's self-explanatory, and the discussion in the SH thread was favoring it, but I'll put it to an official vote here.  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  grunny &#64; wookieepedia :&#126;$ 14:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I dare say we do. Corellian Premier Jedi symbol.svg Force will be with you always 16:57, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) No videos. At all. Ever. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Culator. We've fought hard to keep Wikia out of our affairs in the past. I don't see why we should willingly allow them into our affairs now. We've made a great wiki without videos, and we can continue to be great without Wikia's videos.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 17:52, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) Per Cal and Culator.-- Exiled Jedi  Oldrepublic crest.svg (Greetings)  04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) I'm still very concerned about the licensed aspect of these videos. The license will eventually expire, and then we're left with articles that point to videos that don't exist anymore. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 04:44, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Keep it civil, kids. :P  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and voted on the other three questions so that my opinions are counted, but as I stated below, I am extremely hesitant to agree that we should do this. For the time being I'm going to abstain so that I have a little more time to think about it. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:19, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Even though I've been directly involved in working this whole thing out with Wikia, I'm still agnostic about whether I personally agree with it. I've voted on the issues below, but I will hold my vote here until I've thought it over a bit more and seen comments from others. &mdash;MJ&mdash; Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Licence?

 * SavageBob raises an interesting point regarding licensing&mdash;what sort of licence period are we talking about here? Six months? A year? Five? What does the licence extend to? Only the Wook (in which case we'd look like jerks if they made one and we said we didn't want it), or is it going to be more open and available to other sites (which would in theory attract visitors to those sites rather than ours)? On an unrelated note, I have to wonder, does 'officially licensed material' obligate us to treat it with more attention and/or respect than we might treat other additions? &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 16:04, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, The licensing will depend on the provider, whether its say Lucas or another distributor, such as IGN. On the video wiki we have many providers, and are working hard to build more partnerships. We are also working on creating product tools that will tell you when and if a clip may expire. Currently we do not yet have a signed contract with Lucas, so I can not say what the expiration date would be. If and when those that happens, we can provide more info. Sorry this is not concrete, but every provider has different rules and unfortunately there isn't a standard time. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 19:04, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * And what exactly would happen when the license expires? Our content is made with the (illusory, yes) intention of being permanent, not temporary. As these licenses expire, we'll have growing problems with verifiability.  Stake black   msg 19:18, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Let's see 'em
Ok thanks for letting me know your opinions on the type of content we have right now. As I mentioned Eric is away right now, so hopefully its ok that I get back to once he is back early next week. Thanks, --Sarah (help forum | blog) 22:15, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I do see merit in the general idea and purpose of documenting supposed never-before-seen video content, I am extremely reluctant to support this, and entirely inclined to oppose it, at least until I can get a better idea of what these videos are. I would like to actually see them, or some examples of them, before I ever sign onto this. Respectfully speaking, I'm giving someone a chance to show me examples of these videos before opposing this idea on the grounds of not trusting something before I can actually see it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I've emailed the people from Wikia that Trak and I have been working with and asked them to post links to some specific examples. Being that it's the weekend right now, it may be a couple of days before they respond. &mdash;MJ&mdash; Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, thanks. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:48, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Here are two examples that we have already on the video wiki. A Behind the Scenes clip and a clip from the Clone Wars. There are others on the video wiki if you search there. Eric Moro, who is mentioned above, is currently out on vacation, but when he returns I can ask him to share more links. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 19:04, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for sharing these. Speaking generally, I think it bears pointing out that neither of these two videos are any sort of exclusive, never-before-seen content. The first IGN video can be found easily on IGN.com, and the second is just a generic video clip from that TCW episode. The original SH thread made it sound to me like this was going to primarily be for BTS video content that we couldn't access or find anywhere else, but this doesn't appear to be the case at all. It just seems like we're voting to implement the use of in-article videos in general, which is treading into territory I'm not inclined to support. We already do externally-link to these kinds of videos in in-line referencing when appropriate. I don't think there's any tremendous additional value in actually being able to legally host a video ourselves. Is there anything else I'm missing here? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:29, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with Tope here. While I appreciate you taking the time to scare up some demonstration videos, my concerns are the same as his: these do not appear to be the sort of 'exclusive content' which was discussed in the original Senate Hall thread. Now, to be clear, I realize that this Eric Moro fellow may have some different material to demonstrate, and I'll try to continue to reserve judgement until I see what he's got to show. But if these are the sorts of videos we can expect from this, I'll most definitely be voting against the proposal. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 19:57, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

The Bright Side
Ok, just throwing this out there: potential bright sides from this could mean exclusive content &mdash; not just BtS stuff, but actual new canon information, preferrably (are you reading this, Wikia?) &mdash; and a closer relation with Lucasfilm/Disney, which could work in our favour.  Stake black   msg 19:27, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

How should we use these?
While discussion favored behind-the-scenes usage, I'll still put it to vote. Do you want solely behind-the-scene usage? General media usage, such as cinematic game trailers? Determine the use on a case-by-case basis?  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Case-by-case basis

 * 1) I can see videos being useful for a very small amount of in-universe content, such as lightsaber forms. BTS only is a good way to start, but no harm in leaving this option open for the future. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Menk, best not to box ourselves in here, let's leave the option open to how we use each video. grunny &#64; wookieepedia :&#126;$ 14:10, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) If we must have videos, not having a blanket policy for when to use them gives me more opportunity to shout down anyone who tries to use one. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Per Menk/Grunny. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:15, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) Per Culator.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 17:52, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6) Flexibility is the key here. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:27, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7) Per Menk, Grunny, and Tope. &mdash;MJ&mdash; Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8)  Exiled Jedi  Oldrepublic crest.svg (Greetings)  04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 10) ~ Savage BOB sig.png 04:46, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11) I'm thinking a majority will be in Bts sections, but Menk says it pretty will.  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 10:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12)  Stake black   msg 19:19, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13) LelalMekha (talk) 19:42, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Civility and all that jazz.  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Committee or policy?
So, how do we want to approach these videos? Do we draft up an official policy pointing out what the videos require in order to meet our needs? Do we set up a committee of users who are willing to preview the videos before upload? If we set up a committee, at least one of those users should have access to the video upload account (I'll call it "Guri" for now). Basically, Guri would be a bot, all she's used for is video upload, nothing else. If we choose an official policy, we'll need to decide what goes in it, and that's another SH discussion entirely.  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Official policy

 * 1) Not a fan of the idea of creating another committee. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Committee

 * 1) If this does go through, I'm totally in favor of an approval committee to streamline the process. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Definitely committee. I'm extremely apprehensive about this, so if this passes, I'd like it to be as strictly controlled as we can manage. This seems like the best option to that end. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:16, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) Definately per Culator. Supreme Emperor (talk) 17:30, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Per above. We need to keep videos out, or at the very least restricted.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 17:52, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) Per all the above. I'm usually against creating a bigger bureaucracy, but this is probably something that will be need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, in which case a single policy simply won't be able to cover everything. We need some flexibility here. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:27, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6) Per Tope. &mdash;MJ&mdash; Comlink 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  Exiled Jedi  Oldrepublic crest.svg (Greetings)  04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8)  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 10:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 10) Per Culator.  Stake black   msg 19:40, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11) Per Tope. LelalMekha (talk) 19:43, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
You know the drill. :P  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why not another option? Some admin or another has access to the proposed video, then describes it in a CT, and we all vote on whether it merits inclusion or not. We'd have to choose someone to be our video liaison, but I'd rather not have either of the options above if the whole community can have a say each and every time. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 04:48, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

The video upload account
How should we handle Guri (or whatever you want to call the account, feel free to start a poll)? As mentioned several times, this account would be a moderated account used solely for the uploading of videos. Nothing else. So, who should have access? Do we allow any user access upon request? Sysop-only? Attach the account as a bot to one person, only? How do you want to handle this?  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

User access upon request

 * 1) I like the openness of this option. We're "The Star Wars encyclopedia that anyone can edit," after all. Keeping it user access upon request is far less restrictive than sysop only but still restrictive enough to keep the crap out. Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Sysop only

 * 1) Video uploading is going to be a bloody mess no matter what. This will make it less of one. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 14:38, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Most definitely per Culator. &mdash; DigiFluid(Whine here) 17:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) YES. This may be the wiki that anyone can edit, but not everyone gets access to everything. This is why we have admins and BCs. Sensitive material needs to be handled by the sysops. They were voted in because the community trusted them enough to be able to handle situations such as this.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel)
 * 4) Extremely per Culator and Cal. User requests to upload videos is one thing. But it needs to be monitored and controlled by duly trusted individuals. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:24, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) Per Cal and Tope. &mdash;MJ&mdash;</b> Comlink</b> 01:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  Exiled Jedi  Oldrepublic crest.svg (Greetings)  04:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8) I doubt Wikia or LFL/Disney would accept anything else. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 04:49, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9) The user request thing could result in a lot of garbage stuffed on wherever the requests are made, so I'll go with this option.  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 10:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 10)  Stake black   msg 19:20, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
What would be a good name for this account?  Trak Nar  Ramble on 03:51, January 12, 2013 (UTC) Hi, We are actually working right now to make it so the related video module is sysop only. There filter should be available in about 6 weeks, so just keep that in mind. I will keep you updated as to the release date. --Sarah (help forum | blog) 19:06, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * HoloNet News? Or just The HoloNet? Menkooroo (talk) 14:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * RoboCop.  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 06:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wookieewide NewsNets?  Stake black   msg 19:29, January 14, 2013 (UTC)