Talk:Palpatine/Legends

Sidious' use of autoro
sorry for the bad spelling but it seems to me sidious used Form IV as his lightsaber form. ataru is an agression form and uses alot of aurobics. yoda mastered ataru which him allowed him to be near unbeatable. but when sidious and yoda faced off..they were at a standstill...it looks almost perfectly even. and with that neither side could defeat/disarm the other. sidious also wiped the floor with the other 3 jedi who were masters on the counsil. sidious also drove mace back and held him up on the defensive before he slipped into vapaad. maybe their forms coupled and vapaad came out as the victor. but wouldnt it make sense sidious used autoro which is why he easily beat the other 3 jedi and why yoda couldnt overcome him in the saber duel?
 * It's more of what we know, rather than what we theorize.  CC7567  (talk) 15:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Warning: Information overload!
There's too much info in this article! Waaaay too many tangents have been added, references to things that do not directly relate to Palpatine/Sidious, things that he only ever had marginal, if any, contact with, and it's all so flowery and overly-hyped. Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is way too much nonessential info crammed into this article, which has inflated it waaaaay past what it should be. I mean, do we really need all the stuff we have about Chandrilla's other Senator and the ballyhoo that surrounded the dissolving of the Imperial Senate?--Goodwood 21:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If it's relevant to Palpatine or Palpatine's actions, then yes. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 21:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * True to a point, but like I said, a lot of the article is pure fluff that is in desperate need of a trim.--Goodwood 21:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree, as I always have and always will when it comes to making major changes to this article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 21:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Something tells me that it wasn't just because of the lack of sourcing (per new guidelines) that saw this article stripped of its FA status. If you catch my drift, Jacky.--Goodwood 21:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There's two things you need to know: 1) There is no need for a cleanup tag. If you feel it needs to be trimmed, then by all means try to trim it. But a cleanup tag is not necessary under the circumstances. 2) In all likelihood, I might revert some of your changes if you don't discuss them first. It'd be best to discuss what you wanted "trimmed" here before you edit the article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 22:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think I see what you're saying (well, not really). You're claiming ownership of this page and that anything anyone does to it must meet with your express written consent, eh? That's complete and utter bollocks and you know it - no one "owns" an article, as it says right below the edit window. Sorry, but your excuse is as stupid as a certain person "sparing" you against being tagged with a 3RR violation.--Goodwood 22:48, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That comment, "I might revert some of your changes if you don't discuss them first," strikes me as highly inappropriate. Threatening to revert any changes made to articles that you seem to think belong to you, is if not a violation of our policies, then very close to it. Other users have merit, and I do not understand why you cannot accept this. I advise you develop a little faith in others; it'll do you a world of good. We're not bad people; we're not out to ruin you or your work. - Graestan  Jedi_Order.svg ( This party's over ) 22:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean for that comment to be taken negatively. I didn't intend it to sound like I was claiming ownership of the article; I was merely trying to express that I wanted to know what Goodwood had in mind before major changes were made. As I said above, I'm always opposed to major changes to this article, and I was actually hoping that Goodwood, others, and myself could discuss this before anything major was made. I apologize, but I still wish for this to be discussed before this "trimming" of the article starts. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 00:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to express my personal opposition to the trimming. The nature of this particular wiki, FMHO, tends to inclusionism, which would eventually lead to some entries being extensive, because those particular articles deal with subjects that are repeatedly used by the authors of the canon. This particular article includes information on the emperor's closests associates, for instance. It would not be reasonable to list all of his subordinates (or all the species representatives under Human), but the way this article touches most of the aspects of his life and works is, again FMHPOV, completely adequate, specially in this wiki. Palpatine's article in Wikipedia is obviously shorter, but this wiki is specifically a work on Star Wars. Similarly, Spanish author Rosalía de Castro is dealed in more detail in Spanish wiki than in wikipedia. I consider that the supposed problem Goodwood was pinpointing is not due to the article itself, but to the great amount of appearances of this particular character. With so many authors giving their own view of the fictional character, and creating more schemes and details on his acts (such as "the ballyhoo that surrounded the [his] dissolving of the Imperial Senate", which I consider one of his master moves, centralizing the political power of the galaxy in himself as he wanted to centralize the military power with the DS, and causing the predicted response), obviously the ogre develops more and more layers. This is not a description of all his appearances, but of all of his relevant moves - the question is what is revelant. As for myself, I'm saving the current state of the article in my hard drive, just in case it loses anything I consider worthy. - Skippy Farlstendoiro 12:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The article still needs massive cleanup. Unsourced text boxes that should be quotes, incompleteness, prose issues, formatting issues, the whole gamut. We must clean up this article!--Goodwood 01:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose I could put my workbench to use starting with this article... I'll have to start working on it later, though. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 11:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Goodwood's 10th-September point is something I agree (unlike his 19th-August point). Unfortunately, I do not think I'm the creature for that kind of job. I support Nebulax's candidacy, nevertheless. - Skippy Farlstendoiro 08:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * After thinking it over, this may be too big of an article to tackle for cleanup. However, I can go through and change the text bixes to quotes later. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 11:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Guyz, I think we need moar infomation. There is just not enough infomation on this page. MOAR MOAR MOAR

Palpatine and sidious are different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no proof that thet are the same!! The new essential guide to characters, a canon source, says that they are different!!

That is Yoda versus Palpatine from Episode III. And it clearly states Yoda vs. Sidious. If you haven't seen Episode III yet, you may want to rethink posting anything on this site as you would be highly uninformed... Livingston 18:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummm, did you see Star Wars Episode III? I couldn't believe people were naive enough to actually think they were different before Episode III came out, but to think so after it came out, you have to be off your rocker. Besides everything in Episode III proving that they are the same, check out the name on this unleshed box:
 * I have one thing to say to the person who doesn't realize that Palpatine and Sidious are the same: ... &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 19:18, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't shout...I mean, seriously, how could you not tell when Nute Gunrey contacted Darth Sidious on the Droid Control ship? My jaw dropped several meters when I saw Sidious. -- SFH 20:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

You assume that palpatine and sidious are the same because palpatine has a mastery of the dark side of the force and sidious is a sith lord. Give me proof not assumptions.


 * cough cough episode 3 cough cough!Meesa yoda 23:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)!
 * Anon, let me give you some advice: Stop posting, and go watch Revenge of the Sith. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 00:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The Databank entries for Darth Sidious and Palpatine explicitly state that they are one and the same. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 00:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty certain this guy is just joking around. You can't be that stupid. --24.185.48.239 05:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd be surprised about some of the people we get around here. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 11:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

So, did you just read the essential guide for characters and not the movies, or did you really watch episode III and assume that Sidious and Palpatine looking EXACTLY THE SAME and being played by the same actor is a coincedence? User:Plokoon 9


 * It might sound stupid but one of my friends who was also a Star Wars fan believed this all the way through the prequels until at last Episode III came out... he always insisted Sidious and Palpatine were different, and even when he was proven wrong in Episode III, he didn't admit it, he just said he had known it all along. So annoying.... Savossk 13:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If Episode 3 was not proof enough for you, his profile on the databank on Force Unleashed states explicitly that Sideous is his duel identy.

10,000-year rule source
Moving back to standard talk page etiquette with a more serious tone than the previous charming declaration of maturity ( Palpatine and sidious are different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ), I have a question: What is the source of the information about Palpatine intending to rule the Empire himself for 10,000 years? --Master Starkeiller 17:55, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Revenge of the Sith. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 18:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * From the insider article Order 66: Destroy All Jedi.  Chack Jadson  Talk 20:11, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * See Declaration of a New Order. -LtNOWIS 23:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I mean apart from the "I assure you will last for ten thousand years" part in the declaration speech, what source states that he himself intended to rule all these years? --Master Starkeiller 08:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I doubt Palpatine would be willing to let someone take over for him before those 10,000 years were over. After all, Palpatine did have a ton of clones on Byss that his spirit could have inhabited if his present body failed him. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 14:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But isn't there a source that explicitly states Palpatine would rule for 10,000 years and then give the Empire over to a successor? Am I mistaken here? I may have confused a fan assumption for an official source, or maybe I have confused this with Dark Empire I, where it is stated that Palpatine did not intend to die. Anyway, is there anything else on the subject apart from that speech?--Master Starkeiller 15:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * For some reason, I think the version in the RotS novel says Palpatine intended to rule the Empire for 10,000 years&mdash;though I still think that's what he intended in the movie version of the speech. Can anyone confirm/deny this? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 20:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I never gave the "ten thousand" year thing any serious credence; to me, it's no different than Hitler claiming his Reich would last a "thousand" years. Hitler was attempting to connect with the Biblical idea of the Millennial Kingdom, that's all. And to the citizens of a Republic mired in chaos, warfare and instability, Palpatine's words invoked the promise of very-long-term-stability; they'll never have to live through another time like this, they believed. They certainly didn't expect Palpatine to be the one who ruled that whole time; they understood that the position of Emperor was a lifetime appointment, and that presumably, after that, another would succeed him as Emperor, and so on. And as for Palpatine himself, keep in mind that HE HAD NO MEANS TO LIVE THAT LONG YET. That came later. At the time of ROTS he was still just looking around for what Plagueis claimed to have discovered. It wasn't till later that he learned a.) how to transfer his consciousness from body to body and b.) to clone himself that he could ever hope to live that long. The idea that he would, at the time of ROTS, have a realistic intention to rule for ten thousand years himself, is, to me, ludicrous. The book Dark Lord indicates he WANTED to find a way to do it, but not that he had a real hope that he could. But the moment he was able to achieve immortality through his clones, you can damn well be ABSOLUTELY SURE that he would rule himself for the whole ten thousand years, and probably much longer, over an Empire holding away over not just the GFFA, but other galaxies as well. That's my $0.02. Erik Pflueger Republic_Emblem.svg 22:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you sure he didn't have the clones and the knowledge on how to transfer his spirit into them during RotS? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 00:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a reasonable conclusion to make. The Dark Empire Sourcebook says that Palpatine learned part of that knowledge from a Jedi holocron found in the possession of Master Ashka Boda, who was captured during the Purge, presumably AFTER Order 66, and then brought to the Emperor on Byss (which the online comics indicate was only established after ROTS) by the very first Imperial sentinels. Then, we have Star Wars Gamer 5 saying Palpatine learned another part (probably the last part) of the mystery from ancient Sith spirits on Korriban, and after the spirits assaulted him, his Hand Jeng Droga had to rescue him and get him back to Coruscant for bacta treatment, and that was just after the events of A New Hope (though the article confirms he DID have clones of himself by this time. This is presumably in a very tight time window between ANH and the point when Bevel Lemelisk was brought back from Hefi to be punished for screwing up with the Death Star, because by then, he knew enough to be able to transfer Lemelisk's essence to a clone of him (and he was carrying a holocron at the time, presumably Boda's). So yeah, I'm pretty sure. Erik Pflueger Republic_Emblem.svg 06:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's curious that the Jedi would have known the secret when the Sith didn't. It doesn't seem like the Jedi to transfer their spirit into another body. Thanks, Erik. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) Imperial_Emblem.svg 11:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, to the Jedi, that knowledge would have been just that: knowledge, arcane and obscure and forbidden and untested, not something they would attempt. In order to try applying it, they'd have to use extremely powerful dark side powers, which is something they wouldn't, and most of them couldn't, do. I don't suppose they even studied the secret. Anyway, since we got sources on Palpatine not being able to achieve immortality by RotS, I can suppose I was mistaken and there is no source stating that Palpatine intended to rule for 10,000 years himself? --Master Starkeiller 12:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My mistake, Order 66: Destroy All Jedi says that he intended to rule for a millennium (Sate Pestage says something like that at least).  Chack Jadson  Talk 00:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that you copy this excerpt from the article here, please? --Master Starkeiller 18:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, after a profile of a bunch of Jedi in a document to Palpatine from Sate Pestage, Sate says, "may your reign last for 1,000 years."  Chack Jadson  Talk 20:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "I trust that Your Majesty is pleased by the professionalism of the Empire's soldiers as evidenced by the thorough eradication of the Jedi rebellion. May your reign last for a thousand years!" Well, that's just Pestage kissing his butt. That's like when Italians toast you and say "Cent'anni" and wish that you live a hundred years. Like I'm actually gonna live a hundred years! I eat mostly junk food and my cholesterol's being held at bay only by medication! So much for THAT wish... I wouldn't bother giving what Pestage said any weight at all. It's purely ceremonial, like referring to a dead guy and saying "May he rest in peace." Forget about it, it's a dead end. Erik Pflueger Republic_Emblem.svg 21:23, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's got nothing to do with Palpatine living forever, it's just a wish/compliment. So, the source I'm looking for actually is Dark Empire. It's the only source that states Palpatine intended to rule the Empire forever (and not for just 10,000 years). I shouldn't have looked this far from the obvious choice! Thanks anyway. --Master Starkeiller 22:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Face Theory

 * Okay, Here goes: My theory on why palpy’s face changes has been this: The Force lighning scars him. This would explain why his skin turns white like a heat burn when he gets electrocuted. As for why This didn’t happen to luke, I also have a theory for that. Palpatine wanted Luke to die slowly, but painfully for messing up his plans, and keep him alive long enough so he had time to change his mind. Thus, his force lighning wouldn’t be at “full blast” and luke would experience less scarring. When Palpy zapped windu, he didn’t have any reason to prolong it because he could actually have been killed in that instance. Thus, He would have exerted more Dark Side energy into it. Also consider that Luke was zapped in shorter intervals than when palpy attacked Windu. There is also a possibility that the fact that it was being deflected by a lightsabre could have had some affect on the lightning. Luke could also have been trying to absorb some of the lightning thru the force, which would reduce the effect. Palpy wouldn’t have bothered, allowing his face to become the ultimate self-victimization so he could tell the senators that he had been left “scarred and deformed” later in his speech, and generate anger towards the jedi.

I personally find this more believable, but its only speculation.--Logan Felipe 03:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe this is at least partially explained in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, in the scene when Mace Windu dies. 160.94.177.3 18:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember the novel saying that the 'scarred' face was his true face. Drewton  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/c/c0/SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg/25px-SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 16:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have read entire article about Palpatine and these comments above and somehow I'm not fully satisfied with all those theories about his dis-/trans-figuration. Because when I played one of games, don't really remember which one, there was perfect explanation of what possibly happened to Palpatine and why. In the game player could use either light or dark side Force spells/tricks. However, use of dark ones severely drained character's vitals/energy. Summarizing, I see things like that. Difference between light and dark side use is that user of light side does not drain vital energy neither from him/herself nor any living being around. Use of dark side is abuse, corruption of The Force which originates in disrespect for life and living ones and drains their or oneself's vital energy in sake of success at any price. Therefore there is room for assumption that since duel between Windu and Palpatine was first such significant, relentless and fierce battle in which Palpatine had to use that much of power, this excessive drain caused disfiguration. Pretty much like in the real world. Try to abuse your body somehow and it will result in some soreness, bruises or something like that. Try to walk too far in brand new shoes and very likely you will get blisters. Or try to play guitar first time for too long and your fingertips can even get cuts and bleed. Try to use abusive spell and... Anyway this is point of view presented in some other fairytale or fantasy stories. And guess what? Subsequent use does not extend that damage. Body adapts. After some time fingertips get hardened and you can play that guitar comfortably as long as you like. Although in some cases scares may persist forever... Elegant, simple and consistent. -- Peter (Darth Smarth ;) 59.100.104.108 10:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay I am sitting here and I am thinking what if Darth Sidious murdered the real Palpatine when his young (say 20 something), used the dark side to reconstruct his facial structure and stole the young man's identity. I got this theory from reading the ROTS novel where Sidious says something like "I'll miss the face of Palpatine." However, should the user be attacked by another dark side power (force lightning, for example) then it would undo the "Dark Mask". --unsigned comment by Makashi Master at 18:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Death
He didn't die just in 11 ABY, but also in 4 ABY and 10 ABY, and other times as well. At least 4 ABY, when he lost his original body, should be listed as a deathday before 11 ABY. --Master Starkeiller 15:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Added something along those lines.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 18:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Lightsaber

 * What happened to Palpatine's saber?
 * My guess is that he got too old to use one. He was already middle-aged in the prequel trilogy. --72.89.151.124 16:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He was a sith; his age didn't matter.


 * In one of the novels, I believe it's called Dark Lord Rising or something, the book about Vader... Palpatine tells Vader that the Sith outgrew their need for lightsabers and only use it to play games with the Jedi. Palpatine has proven time and time again that he doesn't really need one. I'm very certain he had a lightsaber past RotS, even in RotJ, but I think he didn't have a need for it. --Danik Kreldin 21:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think his zappy force-lighting was so good he didn't need one or he sold on ebay (haha!) Jonn1234 06:20, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Kgrimes2 Talk 16:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC) How did Palpatine have a lightsaber in his duel with Yoda after I remember Mace Windu kicking it out the window in ROTS? Did he have two lightsabers or did he somehow get the other one back?
 * How come it says that Mace Windu and Luke Skywalker are the only ones to beat him in lightsaber combat? Didn't Galen Marek best him also?
 * I believe he had his lightsaber in Force Unleashed.
 * Well of course he had his lightsaber in TFU, Galen Marek fought him. But that is a good question... what happened to his lightsaber... you'd think that he would mention it somewhere in there, wouldn't you? Also, please be sure to sign your posts with ~ . Thanks!
 * His lightsaber was taken by Rahm Kota when he tried to stop him from turning Galen darkside. I'm guessing it got knocked out of the shield that came up when Galen confronted Sidious. It was probably destroyed when Galen Marek exploded. 01:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Legacy Brought to an end

 * After Palpatine's final death in 11 ABY his Legacy continued with eight more years of the Galactic Cival War. Even after the signing o the peace treaty in 19 ABY it continued with the Seconed Imperieum but the Seconed Imperium was destroyed in 23 ABY along with most of its members, three out of the four Imperial gaurds among them. When the Diversity Allience killed the forth guard after not telling where the store house was did that end his Legacy?

Cleanup
Hello. I am a user who has made some minor edits as an anon before finally getting an account. I thought that I would make helping with this article my first contribution, as it were.

Many have stated that there is too much "play-by-play" information here. I don't think that is the problem - for a detailed character, expect a detailed biography. However several events are not linked together adequaetely and some major events are glossed over and almost missed.

Does anyone agree?OOM-14 08:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

True Colors
Someone should add the info from Republic Commando: True Colors to the article. Specifically the bit about Ko Sai and Palpatine. Oyam5000 01:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I just did it. Oyam5000 07:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Age
Where does it say he was born in 82BBY?68.106.163.132 23:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Chee's blog, I believe.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is why we source our information. Just click on the number next to the factoidand it'll tell you where we get it from. But there's more than one source. Star Wars Insider 84 also specified it. Erik Pflueger Republic_Emblem.svg 03:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I prefer the version that says he is as old as Yoda "800 years" (considering he killed Yodas master).

-G

adding to the name fan speculation
Is it possible to add the following passage to the name fan speculation?

"Another in-joke, among the Star Wars fan community in Uruguay is that his first and middle name are “Julio Humberto”. This stems from the fact that a popular radio show in that country, Justicia Infinita, aired a parody radio series for a few months before the opening of Ep. III, and in one of the final episodes, Palpatine had printed invitations for all the galaxy to meet his new apprentice, the newly cyborg-enhanced Darth Vader, signing them as “Julio Humberto”. Uruguayan roleplaying association Knights of Montevideo even gives out a “Julio Humberto Palpatine For Outstanding Manipulation” in his honor."

You'll need a source. --75.67.24.169 21:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Would a source in Spanish do?200.124.192.29 07:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

do you think lord sidious knows force choke-Andrew66

More fuel for the face disfiguration debate
Looking at the nice new illustrations in the Jedi vs. Sith guide, I came across an interesting drawing of a teenage Darth Maul undergoing battle training, while Palpatine watches from above. Palpatine's face is clearly gnarled and disfigured, much like he is past his duel with Mace Windu. To me it lends support to the claim that Palpatine's face had come to this point through his extensive use of the dark side and that he had been "masking" it all along. I can scan the image and post it here if people would like to look at it. -Danik Kreldin 02:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, as side note of interesting information which I'll work into the article later, Palpatine says, in this new book, that he often implanted Maul with dreams of burning down the Jedi Temple to raise Maul's determination (the chapter is written by Palpatine). So if Palpatine was capable of planting dreams in people, I think it's true that Palpatine was responsible for Anakin's "visions" of Padme dying... unless this has been proven/disproven already. --Danik Kreldin 02:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I tried to point that out already, citing the book The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, where Vader speculates on whether a dream he just had was the result of a telepathic invasion, an invasion that Palpatine could perform without leaving any trace of his presence. I was told by the admins that it was "speculation" and that speculation was not what was needed here. I disagreed, but I had no choice but to honor their decision; if I added it anyway, they'd just delete it. But this new book, with Palps claiming he could - and did - do this in his own words, may put the issue back on the table, and with more weight behind it. Erik Pflueger Republic_Emblem.svg 02:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless it actually says that Palpy did indeed plant visions of Padme dying then it's still speculation. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 03:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

"Maul had but one reason for being: to exact vengeance against the Jedi Order for the decimation of the Sith ranks. Oh, how he dreamed of burning the Jedi Temple to the ground. I know, for I gave him that dream repeatedly."
 * I believe it's heavily implied throughout the series that the dreams were the result of Palpatine's manipulations. Here's the direct quote from the book (like I said, the entire fifth chapter of the book is written by Sidious; he left behind a holocron, the Telos Holocron, which reveals all this:

So we at least know that Palpatine has the ability to manifest dreams in other people, and Vader ponders whether his dreams were real Force visions or the work of an outsider (Palpatine). And if I recall, it's heavily implied in the RotS novelization that Palpatine was behind the so-called visions. So at the very least, I think it deserves some mention in the article.

But, back to the original discussion, this book shows some very early images of Palpatine... I already uploaded the image of Palpatine from his early twenties, training under Plagueis; he's obviously not deformed or anything. However, the picture I'm referring to, with Maul training, is probably a good ten to fifteen years before The Phantom Menance, and Palpatine is already heavily deformed and bearing his familiar scars and wizened features. So with this and Sithis, we have canon evidence that the lightning was not the cause for his deformities. I'll post the image in a bit. --Danik Kreldin 03:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Click on it to see better. Palpatine's disfiguration is clearly visible and Maul looks like he's still a young teenager. --Danik Kreldin 03:28, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Here it is: Maultraining.jpg
 * The problem, Danik, is that any illustration by Tommy Lee Edwards is automatically suspect. Edwards takes too many shortcuts, too many liberties. To take him at his word, Republic troops during the Great Hyperspace War are dressed exactly like Gondor's knights. Had it been done by Chris Trevas or any other illustrator who makes an effort at being realistic, then I would grant that you have something. But for all we know, Edwards just took some older image of Sidious to do this picture. Or perhaps, because Edwards likes to heavily deliniate lines between shades of color in his work, those lines may be what you're seeing. That's what it looks like to me. Erik Pflueger Republic_Emblem.svg 22:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no way to know for sure; although it's easy to blame Edwards' artistic deficiencies, I don't believe the image should be completely discounted. Anyway, Palpatine's ability to implant dreams in the minds of others is nothing new. He did the same thing to Luke Skywalker in Dark Empire II. --Exor 16:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What we can know for sure is that Edwards drew a deformed Palpatine. But he also drew a "human" Palpatine overlooking Vader on the operating table (he used an Episode I promotional still), though in that case we only see his chin, and his chin is the least deformed part of his face, so it doesn't count as an error. However, the debate is pointless, since Sithisis is canon. --Master Starkeiller 17:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that Sithisis was canon "from a certain point of view," rather than flat-out "that's how it happened!", in which case it's still open to interpretation and there's still a point to the debate. Eggmanland 22:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I won't waste my time with this particular debate&mdash;it is useless in the extreme&mdash;aside from reminding you that talk pages are for talking about the article itself and not the subject of the article, but how on Earth (or in the GFFA) can something be "canon 'from a certain point of view?'" &mdash;Graestan ( This party's over ) 22:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but that's how Leland Chee described it here. Either way, it's not a solid "yes," since we don't know what part of it is canon and what part isn't. Eggmanland 22:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course we can look back at Trevas' image of Sidious and Plagueis where he looks young and non-disfigured. Do we know how far back this goes and if his normal aging would have resulted in him looking like he does with Maul? Still can't explain the Sith eyes. --  Riffsyphon  1024 06:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)Palpatineyouth.jpg

Another Debate That Should Be Mentioned
Just as controversial as to the reason for his face is whether or not he sensed Anakin coming and let Mace Windu defeat him, or whether Windu actually outmatched him. This is mentioned in passing once or twice but I think it deserves its own subentry as an important controversy related to Palpatine. Statalyzer 22:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Emperor Reborn
I love this and think that it is a well put together article. But I have to ask something. When Vader killed Sidious in ROTJ that was supposed to be the permanent balancing out of the force, the conclusion to the prophecy, however; just a couple years later he was back and powerful. That whole thing makes the prophet seem so irrelevant. I know many people will disagree with me but I felt that the idea of the Reborn Emperor was just an excuse to sell merchandise. Im open to friendly criticism.
 * More like an excuse to recycle plot material without having to think up anything original. "I know, I'll just make up that he had tons of clones of himself instead of having to be clever and create a new villian." Statalyzer 20:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. Dark Empire just seems so cheesy to me. The Galaxy Gun...yuck.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 22:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I can see how it would appear that way now; however, Dark Empire was written in 1991, well before such concepts as a prophecy, balance of the force, or the name Sidious. This is hardly the only example of Lucas' prequel movies contradicting previously established EU canon -- an EU that he himself licensed and reaps the benefits of.  Lucas has also gone on record stating that Dark Empire is the closest thing to his ideas for a sequel trilogy.  So I can see both sides here; unfortunately, with Star Wars, things are rarely simple. Brandon Peat 19:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

5.2 Factual correction
84.204.69.86 14:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC) "Hair color: Red"???? Why?!
 * Because he wasn't always an old man with white/grayed hair? 74.60.54.217 22:39, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I have a theory
Its probaly not true but I just wonder did Sidious make the war clones vs droids on purpose to see which army would serve the empire better? He eventually thought the clones were a better deal and since he didnt need the droids anymore just turned them off

Retrieved from "http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Clone_trooper"


 * Palpatine made the war to give himself emergency powers, wipe out half of the Jedi Order, and to have the Clone Army.Drewton 01:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it was to have an army, not necessarily a clone army. Had the Droids been superior to Clones I have no doubt he would have been fine with a large droid army. And he wouldn't have been such an idiot as to make all the droids become worthless if a spaceship gets blown up. Statalyzer 22:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Dark Lord of the Sith?
I have to dissagree with this: "So affirmed, the initiate was formally welcomed into the Sith Order, proclaimed a Dark Lord of the Sith and..."

We have no proof to my knowledge, that the title of Dark Lord of the Sith was given when the apprentice was accepted into the Order. It is more likely that the title was assumed apon, a: the death of the Master, b: to be given the titl, by the Master upon completion of certain events or as a stape of his training. I believe that in the case of Sidious' Apprentices, they were each given the title when they reached a time at which they were no longer of use to him, Maul, before he faced the Jedi, Doku before he took part in the "elimination of the Jedi Order". Anakin as the "heir" of Palpatine. Palpatine conferred the title to inspire fear and loyalty, all the while, he was the only true Dark Lord of the Sith. Evidince exists in the form of Zannah, as of the writings at this point, she is not known as the Dark Lord of the Sith or given the title Darth. I believe in "Path of Destruction" it explicitly states that Bane was the Only Dark Lord of the Sith.Sephiroth Kali

This is one of the big screw-ups of Star Wars, apperently in the Rule Of Two, both Master and Apprentice are Dark Lords. I know, this makes absolutely no sense. A while back there were a few users that tried to prove this so-called canon wrong, and one of them actually succeeded in raising some great points. 1. Sith do not share power. - Anyone who actually knows anything about the Sith know that they do not share actual power, nor things like titles - which grant power. 2. Teacher and student would not share the same title anyway as one naturally outranks the other. 3. The Rule Of Two was making a reference to the fact that there should only be two Sith at a time, not TWO LEADERS of the Sith at the same time, which is, needless to say, retarded.
 * You have raised a very good question.

The mistake of the Rule Of Two referring to two Dark Lords is most likely true and completely canon. I guess whoever created that Rule didn't know how titles work.

Lastly, perhaps it should be noted that while a Sith reaching the title of Lord was akin to that of Master in the Jedi Order, Dark Lord was the title of power and skill akin to that of a Grandmaster of the Order. If Darth Maul had truly been a Dark Lord, he would not have been killed by a Padawan. The same can be said of Darth Tyranus, who fell to a freshly Knighted Jedi.

So, yes, If we were to judge the "Dark Lord" and "Rule Of Two" phenonoma realistically, Darth Maul and Darth Tyranus were NOT Dark Lords, they were merely Sith Lords.

The Rule Of Two should refer to the fact that there can only be two Sith at any one time, but accordingly, not two Dark Lords, as that would be redundant.

Two Emperors do not rule the same Empire. --The truth hurts... 22:20, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Homeworld
I read somewhere (probably the new essential guide to Characters(minus episode 3)), that Sidious/Palpatine's homeworld was Byss. Seeing as his cloning facility was there, and that although Palpatine was a Senator from Naboo, it isn't nessacerily stated that he is in fact from Naboo, could this be a viable answer? 68.50.248.122 17:31, 17 February 2008 (UTC)Phrawger

sith power.
you think of sidious age but how can he stay alive? most likely a sith power yet i do not know the name.

Think of other old Force-users. That should help. Darth Oompa Loompa 22:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC) Kgrimes2 Talk 16:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Palpatine is not old, he just LOOKS old --Dixieboy 14:08, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He is old. He was born in 82BBY -19:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, he looks older because he practically electricuted himself in his battle with Mace Windu. This led to direct... erm... oldness.

When it is mentioned in the article that the only people who matched Palpatines strength was Mace Windu, Luke and im not sure if there was another, should we not mention too that Galen Marek matched Palpatines battle prowess? Chuck 444 16:43, 38 March 2009 (CNT)

Palpatine 'Empire era' picture
There are very few pictures of Palpatine in the 'Dark Times'. I've found one from The Force Unleashed, but I can't edit the article to put it in. I don't know if it would fit very well in the article, but here's the link to it: http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2008/056/933155_20080227_screen003.jpg Drewton 15:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)Drewton

to quote vader put him in.

I'm not able to edit the article.Drewton 01:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This page is semi-protected. Anonymous users and new users cannot edit it. You should be able to in a few days, though, so don't worry.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 13:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay.

By the way, is there another picture that would work for the infobox? The current one is more 'recent' in the timeline, but his skin looks more green and the image quality isn't as good.

This isn't the best, but I prefer this one more. ] Drewton 19:18, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Han Solo beat Palpatine in a lightsaber duel.
It's true. Han Solo killed Palpatine for the last time by shooting him in the back. While Palpatine was fighting with lightsabers. So Han Solo beat Palpatine in a lightsaber duel. Sort of... 71.220.214.7 03:50, 8 April 2008 (UTC) thumb/c/c0/SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg/25px-SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg 16:19, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really, because Han wasn't using a lightsaber and Palpatine wasn't facing off against Han. Palpatine was too preoccupied with transferring his spirit into Anakin Solo's body, and Han shot him. No lightsabers. Grand Moff Tranner 11:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be as if saying a clone trooper defeated General Grievous in a lightsaber duel if the clone had shot him. Drewton  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/

Name
Souldn't this page be titles 'Darth Sidious'? After all, Sith took new names at the time of initation. - Kalak Ragnose
 * No, because he was known as Palpatine by the time of his death. The same goes for Anakin over Vader and Dooku over Tyranus. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The Naboo Crisis Quote
Here is the head quote for the section: The Naboo Crisis

"I have a bad feeling about this." "I don't sense anything." "It's not about the mission, Master. It's something… elsewhere… elusive." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn

I'm not quite sure this belongs here, because as far as I can remember it was never explicitly stated that this quote had anything to do with the Emperor.

Thoughts? Holokin 09:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)Holokin
 * I think you're right, as far as I know Palpatine was never directly linked to that quote. So, maybe put another quote on there? --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 09:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of appropriate Sidious quotes in Episode I; we should probably use one of them. Though I'm probably stating the obvious. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 11:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this is a good quote. It's clearly about Palpatine and the Sith; however, if a better one can be found, put it in.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 18:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you think of "At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we shall have revenge"? - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 19:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a good one. I forgot about Maul quotes. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, shall I replace it now then? - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 19:33, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose so, if no one objects. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nobodys objected :D exelant, I'll replace it for now, feel free to change it, I'll also turn in now so be back tomorow. - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 19:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Typo that I can't edit.
I was enjoying this article and came across a random typo in an otherwise very well written page: "Skywalker managed to cast of the veil..." should change of to off. This is in the 2nd to last section of "Skywalker's Subterfuge" in case you can't just Ctrl+F that phrase. Thanks!
 * Fixed.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 12:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Appearances Help Needed!
Hi, I've recently moved all palpys appearances from a seprate page onto here. however, on that page they where all aranged as a type, (films, books, comics etc), Tranner just put a Clean-up template on, asking that they be aranged in chronalogical order, I'm going to make a user subpage: User:RC-1136/Palpy to arange this, Please help! RC-1136 Copy 15:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, all done now, some may be slightly off center especially where they occur in the same year as another appearance, or their main page doesn't have a Time line thing in its infobox, RC-1136  Copy 15:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Video games still need to be put in, but I could try that. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 16:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to say this, but after looking it over, I don't think some appearances are in the right chronological order, the "1stID" and "1stm" tags aren't next to the right appearances, and an aweful lot of appearances have two " * s" instead of just one. If I had the time, I'd fix them, but it's a long list, and I give you credit for taking the time to fix it. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 16:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Its closer then before, and not much else! the reson some have two asterixs are where the seires name is mentioned, then the books in the series are listed, with two asterixs RC-1136  Copy 05:09, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking around Wookieepedia, that doesn't seem to be the way to do it (no offense). Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 11:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Non taken, but I'm afarid I can't think of a better way, if you can then voice/type it and I'm happy to go about it again, anything to crack these apperances! (Well maybe not reading all the books) RC-1136  Copy 14:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Article Length
Guys, I understand this wiki likes inclusiveness AND that there is a great deal of information about this character, but my wretched deity this article is brutally long. I can't even open it on my home computer because of the lag, this computer can barely handle it and slows down pretty significantly. I suppose this is futile but I really think this article could do with some pretty comprehensive splitting into smaller articles, not onl to keep it less tedious but as a favor to those of us with weaker computers. I hate to say it, but, I think this article has passed beyond comprehnsive and into ludicrous. Otherwise, the page should have some sort of 56K warning before opening the whole thing. As far as the actual content is concerned, I don't think large trims are necessary; just a relocation of content. 24.86.140.144 02:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Name
This is just something that's bothered me now and then, something the article (in-universe as it is) doesn't seem equipped to answer: Exactly when was the first time this character was named as Palpatine, Darth Sidious, or anything other than "The Emperor"? My memory might be messing with me again, but I can't quite recall when either of those names was dropped in the original trilogy. (I actually have the same question about the word "Sith", if anybody can help me there, but one thing at a time.) - Caswin 21:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The first mention of the name Palpatine occurs in the Prologue to the original version of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope (novel). LadyTarkin 01:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Then name Darth Sidious didn't appear until The Phantom Menace. Until that film, it wasn't established that Darth was a Sith name/title as we only had Darth Vader up until that point.


 * While I don't remember Sith being used in the film, I believe it was in the novelization of ANH. At the very least, I remember the term Dark Lord of the Sith being around before there was an EU.

Mistake
This sentence is incorrect, "After the Battle of Balmorra, two Dark Side Adepts Zasm Katth and Baddon Fass began to slaughter the secret auxiliary clones Skywalker didn't kill. Executor Sedriss killed them for their defiance, as the last clone of Palpatine emerged, planning to resume conquest of the galaxy."

Zasm Katth and Baddon Fass should be replaced with Nefta and Sa-Di.

quote
hey guys i have this quote of him saying
 * ''only through me you can achieve grater power then any Jedi and we can save Padmé from certain death.

palpatine reveling his identity to Anakin Skywalker -Boba fett 32 03:06, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

He knew all along?!?!
Could Sidious have known Galen existence from the very beginning, like he said close to the end of the story? If so, then Galen wasn't much of a "secret" apprentice from the Emperor at all, was he? Vader only wanted him to decide whether to serve either him or Sidious, no matter whom he despised the most. That same thing happened when Luke defeated his dad on the second Death Star, but in the end, they chose to serve neither. Does that make sense? 72.87.69.13 13:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Palpatine knew Galen's existence since the very beginning. He was chosen to be a trap for the rebel leaders. I doubt that Vader would have done that without the Emperors' approval.

TFU Playable Character
The end of the article says that with the code "PALPATINE" you can play as the Emperor. I put this in, but no joy. Can anyone confirm that? If not, can we delete?

Fly Boy 04:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Me thinks it works only for Wii. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 23:01, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It's SITHLORD i believe, not palpatine.

Reference please...
Thanks! Kgrimes2 23:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC) Kgrimes2 03:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I am looking for the book/comic which contains the story in which Palpatine is first "reborn." And also please include linkd to other succeeding novels/comics.
 * Dark Empire, I believe you're talking about. And then Dark Empire 2 and Empire's End.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 00:54, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks!

Galen vs Palpatine
I edited this fight ever so briefly, to make it match the novel. This is currently the "canon" version of events until LucasArts releases some definative heirarchy of what happened. I checked with an admin, and was told that is the current stance for now. Anyway, here is the link to the original discussion with another user on Galen's page. Feel free to add any thoughts, particularly complaints.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Galen_Marek#Galen.2FPalpatine_battle adamg0d 06:17, 25 November 2008 (UTC)adamg0d

Major Palpatine Revelation?
I read here (same page, 3 posts down) that Plagueis may have created Palpatine to be the ultimate vessel for The Force. http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/29515258/p19 71.231.130.121 03:37, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Wat did he do with the droids?
ok since we know palpatines shrewder than hitler AND obama combined is it safe to say he absorbed some of the battle droids into the imperial army? Or did he make like a secret police?

Im curious is it plausible this happened? i like SW but i dont read the comics so much n id like to know more about the empire


 * What'd you like to know about the Empire? The Trade Federation was destroyed; Palpatine did not use any of the droids for his own use. Stormtroopers used to be Kamino clones, but Kamino refused to create any more for the Empire (correct?). So, Palpatine wiped out the Kaminoans and began recruiting ordinary people for his Empire.

Also, please do not forget to sign your comments with this: ~. Thanks! If you have any more questions, feel free to ask! Kgrimes2 06:59, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. The droid factories were left dormant, until being found by Jabba and the Zann Consortium (Canon?). He originally used clones, but eventually, the Empire was replaced by humans from across the galaxy. I'm convinced Stormtroopers were still mostly clones, given some of the quotes in Episode 4  "Aren't you a little short to be a stormtrooper?" and "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded." Okay, maybe not the second one so much, but who would know the most about the clones being vulnerable to the force but him. They were made that way... But most non-stormtroopers were humans from across the galaxy, at any rate. EX: Ship crews, special forces, etc... DraysonAndReeki 18:04, 23 January 2009 (UTC)DraysonAndReeki 13:04, 23 January 2009 (ET)

1) Jabba found the remnants of the droid factories? Source please? 2) Very good point. "Aren't you a little short to be a Stormtrooper?" by Leah was a comment that could either have just meant he was "too young" and most Stormtroopers were taller than he was. Or it could've meant that at that time they were still using clones. If they were still using clones, from what source? Kgrimes2 Talk 22:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true. Two questions here...

Name Origins
A definition given in this section is inaccurate. "Palpate" means to examine with one's fingers, not to pulsate. That definition belongs to "palpitate", which also means to tremble. Whenever I think of Palpatine's name origins "palpitate" is what come to mind, and it makes sense. The word is often, if not usually, used to describe arrhythmia and/or trembling, such as brought on by fear. ~ Zaenos 06:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Finally some hard evidence
I know this subject has been brought up ALOT off times but i finally have some hard physical evidence to show that Palptines lightning SCARRED him. It wasnt that palpatine was "demasked" the lighning actually scarred him. Heres my proof. 1 Whenever sidious communicates with a hologram its obvious that his face is perfectly fine and normal. If anything it looks like his skin is clearer on a hologram. 2 when dooku gets off his ship at the end of AOTC he meets sidious and sidious looks prefectly fine. why would he hide his real face from his apprentice? --98.211.218.179 01:41, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Mxb design 16:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This does not prove it. Tyranus knew that sidious was the supreme chancellor, and he could have several reasons for wanting his apprentice not to know that the chancellor looked like that. He is a deceiving character, so he could have any number of reasons for not doing so. I only suggested the first one I thought of

Article neutrality issue.
Isn't it a tad difficult to be objective at this point, considering how canon sources identify Palpatine as literal evil incarnate? --Exor 17:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * We're not supposed to be subjective, we're supposed to be objective (I'm assuming that's what you meant). "Evil" in itself is a subjective word; Palpatine can't canonically be evil, because evil is based on someone else's judgment. It's pretty easy to be objective &mdash; indicate he's evil, without actually using crude words like "evil." Do not remove that tag again: that section, or parts of it, is indefensibly not NPOV, and removing the tag without changing it is akin to vandalism. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:46, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

No, he can't canonically be evil even though multiple canon sources with an omniscient narrative state that he is evil. George Lucas created the character, and he's stated multiple times that Palpatine is pure evil. Now that his intention has trickled down into canonical, out-of-universe texts, you still don't want to consider it. And it's not even a case of objectivity anymore, he's officially "evil incarnate". Not just evil, but evil personified; that is a state of existence, not a point of view. --Exor 23:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC) So you would omit a major, canonical character trait to maintain compliance with a NPOV policy?--Exor 01:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC) Yes, explaining that Palpatine is evil incarnate sans any reference to the word "evil" or its myriad synonyms should be a facile task. --Exor 23:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The use of "evil" - or any variant thereof - in article text violates NPOV policy. You'll have to change that core policy if you want to change the article. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I would omit the use of the word "evil" or any variant thereof; if you can get across the personality trait without using that kind of language, then by all means do so (it shouldn't be that difficult, anyway). But that's a ridiculous question -- we don't disregard core policies for "major" anythings. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 08:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm new at this, but I'll just toss this in: would it work if it was changed to something like 'Palpatine was considered to be evil' instead of just 'Palpatine is evil'. That way, theres no point of view on what is evil and what is not, just the fact that in-universe, he was seen many to be evil, by their morals. It has to be stated in some way, and to me, that is how I would do it.--Kierjan 16:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that in cases such as these, you cannot feasibly enforce the NPOV rule. Star Wars is a story, and its characters occupy archetypes that have existed since stories began. Describing those archetypes is not a point of view, but a fact. The whole point of rules on a wiki is to enhance the information, not restrict it. Rules should be used responsibly, not for the sake of using rules. So we should all calm down, and I believe that in characters like this, or Luke Skywalker (Good personified), it should be stated. George Lucas himself has said this, and surely he gets final say on any matter pertaining to Star Wars? Mxb design 16:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Like I said, if you wish to challenge core policies or make exceptions to them, do so via the consensus track. As is, the section violates NPOV, so gets the NPOV tag until such time as somebody removes or replaces the POV. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:27, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

In Liberty On Ryloth (TCW)?
Hi, everybody: I've just seen the Clone Wars Series episode "Liberty On Ryloth" (the one with Mace Windu and Syndulla): I may be wrong, but doesn't Palpatine appear in a brief scene (when we see Yoda and Anaking too, via hologram)? I though so, but CC7567 deleted this appearance I hadded few hours ago. Nothing to question about, I was just pretty sure Palpatine was in that episode, and wanted a confirm on my theory (or on CC7567's, of course). Thank you. -- Kael Rayne 8:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops, yeah, he did. Sorry, I'll go and correct it.  CC7567  (talk) 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)