Talk:Galactic Empire/Legends

Where is the "Imperial Inner Circle" named? --SparqMan 02:22, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sure I remember it being in the TIE Fighter video game. --beeurd 17:48, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * That was the "Secret Order". This is claiming that the group assembled on the Death Star was named the "Imperial Inner Circle" and operated as the executive branch of the Galactic Empire. --SparqMan 18:02, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the Imperial Inner Circle still be up on the table? Because it did exist. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:45, 1 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * The "Emperor's Inner Circle" was a name for a group of Palpatine's closest advisors and officials, but by no means the executive branch of the Empire. The Emperor was the executive branch. The table probably should not include a lot of the information that it currently does. --SparqMan 21:25, 1 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I read that the Inner Circle was the "assistant" executive branch of the Empire. They aided the Emperor, who was basically the executive branch as you say. After all, the members were heads of divisions, like the Starfleet Commander who was mentioned in A New Hope. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 00:15, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but Palpatine had lots of aides, advisors and assistants (not to mention courtiers, sycophants, etc.), but he was also paranoid and generally organized multiple bodies and offices to counter each other (thus reducing any risk to himself). The term was also mentioned in an aside, and never explained. Did I miss a description of the body somewhere other than Dark Empire? --SparqMan 03:01, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I myself have never read Dark Empire, but I have seen the term "Imperial Inner Circle" (refering to a group similiar to the group in A New Hope) in many places. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 13:41, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I can recall coming across similar terms, but I read them ot mean the clique of Palpatine's advisorial retinue, and not a proper group with responsibilities. --SparqMan 14:23, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Can we make the table more descriptive. Like, basically what I get from it when I look at it is a bunch of people control a bunch of things..... Oh yeah, and the military, beauracracy, and planetary governors are on the bottom. Maybe put in some info as to how it works rather than saying "This is the chain of command."--OompaLoompa of DOOM 04:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, that's too much information for an infobox. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Appearances
Is this the appearance of any Imperial related person/place/thing? This article should probably just be Sources. --SparqMan 23:04, 17 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:05, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Real-world similarities
Should we have a Behind the Scenes section that includes similarities between the Galactic Empire and the real-world governments and empires it was based on? Most of us know that Nazi Germany has lots of similarities with the Empire including racism, genocide (most notably the Holocaust) and militarism.

Others include the Soviet Union, the British Empire, North Korea, Apartheid South Africa and the Japanese Empire during World War II. The creators of what we know as Star Wars must have been inspired by real world events. Palpatine may have been modeled after Adolf Hitler. Both committed numerous atrocities including warcrimes, slavery and oppression. Both also lost in the end.

Do you think it is safe to do this? I'm just trying to help improve this Wiki.MyNz 21:55 7 Jan 2005 [] Even the Imperial uniforms are a mix between Nazi and Imperial Japanese uniforms, the Japanese portion is the cap, rest is Nazi, and with the combination, is Imperial [] [] [] []
 * I think it's safe to do this. If there are similarities, just add it in. Admiral J. Nebulax 12:29, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * We should stick to confirmed ones, though; otherwise, it could become a mess. I.e. comparisons that have either been stated by Lucas (Roman Empire, Nixon), or really obvious ones (Nazi Germany; the uniforms, Chancellor becoming dictator, etc.)  If we start comparing to every oppressive dictator it could get unwieldy and unnecessary, and if people start making comparisons from their opinions, it could get very POV.  In other words, rather than "the Empire is like this and this government in some way", keep it to "the Empire was clearly inspired by this and this government". - Lord Hydronium 12:48, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, but on Palpatine's page, Palpatine is compared to U.S. President George W. Bush without anything from Lucas. Admiral J. Nebulax 12:50, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * There have been hints from Lucas on that. --Master Starkeiller 13:37, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, then, let's add what we know is true. Admiral J. Nebulax 14:31, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * There are many similarities between the Galactic Empire and the Japanese Empire with their navies. Japan had an absolutely massive navy from the 1930s to 1940s. Just as the Galactic Empire had a Super Star Destroyer, the Japanese Empire had the Super Battleship Yamato, the largest, most powerful battleship ever built.

As for the TIE Fighters, Lucas himself admits the spacefights over the Death Star were based on a movie called Flying Tigers where American P-40 fighters battle Japanese Zero fighters over China. In both cases, TIE Fighters and Zeros come in greater numbers, to make up for their weaknesses [] []
 * True. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 12:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Nebulax, I hope you have looked at the pictures, I had a hard time sorting them out, but you will see the similarities. I know a lot about the Pacific front in World War II and I hope you look up on Wikipedia, the Japanese Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, he was the same kind of incompetent commander as Admiral Ozzel in Empire Strikes Back. Nagumo was selected by the brilliant mastermind Admiral Yammamoto to lead the attack on Midway Island. The Battle of Midway was much like the Battle of Endor. Like the Emperor in Return of the Jedi setting a trap to destroy the Rebel fleet, Yammamoto was setting a trap to lure the American aircraft carriers to Midway. The Japanese would strike the island, supposidly the U.S. carriers would arrive too late where they would be destroyed in overwhelming numbers by planes from Nagumo's aircraft carriers, then the rest of the American fleet would be pursued an destroyed by Yamammoto's cruiser and battleship squadrons. Even like the Emperor, Yamamoto was at the battle himself to oversee the defeat of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, unfortunately both of these men spent too much time forseeing how the battle would take place, rather than acting on the spot which resulted in Yamamoto's defeat at Midway and Palpatine's defeat at Endor. Aren't the coincidences eerily similar. Look up the Battle of Midway to see my reasoning
 * Yes, there seem to be many similarities. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 12:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

State religious body
Should the Sith really cound as the state religious body? It's existence was publicly unacknowledged. -- SFH 21:37, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess so. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:39, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

The Sith are not a state religious body, neither are they secretive.

Listen to Motti's disgust of the Force "Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden..." This is the voice of an atheist Imperial officer, unless he is affiliated with another religion, nevertheless, Sith propaganda must not work if it exists. The Sith are a small group of people including Palpatine, Darth Vader, and supporters within their inner circle. As for the Sith being "publicly unacknowledged" then why would the Emperor post Darth Vader as their MILITARY EXECUTOR! Darth Vader is the replacement for the Jedi to insure security using the force. The Jedi are not a state religion do not interrupt in the affairs of others unless they are pose a threat, and do not show particular interest in beings with low Force powers. The Sith are the same in that respect, they only want people who are strong with the Force, the rest of the "weak-minded" society can do as the please as long as they don't conflict with the Empire or the Sith.
 * "Sith" should be taken out and replaced with Church of the Dark Side, which WAS the official religion of the Imperial State post 5 ABY. QuentinGeorge 11:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Very well, they made a church post-Endor, but I still disagree with the belief that the Sith were completely secretive. I mean Vader came right up to Leia and she said "Darth Vader, only you could be so bold." If there's someone referred to by his officers as "Darth" or "Lord", its pretty clear that the Sith are publicly acknowledged and accepted by society. Now maybe, Palpatine does not admit he is Darth Sidious to the public, but he titled Anakin, Darth Vader, whom he would be referred to in public and in private. After the fall of the Jedi, the Sith did not need to be secretive when Palpatine went on his rant in the Senate about how evil the Jedi were. With his manipulative powers, the average citizen would think "hmm, he's right, what have the Jedi done for us, we've been in chaos for years, no security, the corrupt republic was falling apart. How can we trust what the Jedi have been telling us about the Sith? The Sith have been oppressed by the Jedi for years, who knows what the old Jedi-run propaganda machine has been making us believe, maybe they had good reason to fight the Jedi." This is the kind of thought that comes out of disallusionment, the same disallussionment that made Germans vote for the radical Nazis rather than a democratic government trying to repair relations and end corruption
 * Actually, "Lord" wasn't just a Sith title. And when Episode IV was made, I doubt George Lucas had in mind that "Darth" was for a Sith only. Or maybe he did. I don't know. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Lucas tends to go back and forth on ideas when he makes movies. A friend of my brother has a copy of the original Star Wars script. In that script, Luke's last name was "Starkiller". The script called "The Adventures of Luke Starkiller" has the introduction beginning with:

"For over a thousand years, generations of JEDI KNIGHTS were the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. Now these legendary warriors are all but extinct. One by one they have been hunted down and destroyed by the sinister agents of the Emperor: the DARK LORDS OF THE SITH."

"Suddenly, there is a slight lull in the fighting, then a deathly quiet sweeps over the passageway as an awesome, seven-foot tall DARK LORD OF THE SITH makes his way into the blinding light of the main passageway. This is DARTH VADER, right hand of the Emperor."

12-13. INT. REBEL SPACEFIGHTER - HALLWAY - CABIN

"Princess Leia is led down a low-ceilinged hallway by a squad of armored stormtroopers. Her hands are bound with brass bracelets, and she is brutally shoved when she is unable to keep up with the briskly marching troops. They enter a small gloomy chamber where Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith, is sitting. Vader speaks in an oddly filtered voice through his complex breathing mask"

This line is similar to when in Ep3 when Palpatine says "Darth Plageouis, a Dark Lord of the Sith", he is saying his short form title and then says its expanded form which is more respective."

Therefor Darth was orginally intended as an acronym in the 1975 script. check this website for proof. http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/scripts/thestarwars_third_draft.htm

Quotes
What's up with the 2 quotes at the beginning? Shouldn't "Fear will keep the systems in line" be in Government and Politics? Odintheking 3:40, 27 Feb 2006
 * Yes, it could be in that section considering it relates to it, and the top of the article shouldn't be crammed with two or more quotes. -- Riffsyphon1024 22:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * So? There are two quotes at the beginning of other articles. And please, put all new sections at the bottom. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 22:46, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

What does the Imperial Insignia stand for, What colours can it use, etc.?
As with all emblems or flags of nations, they have meanings, as for the Imperial insignia, I am not sure what it stands for. Could someone please give me a hint? Also, I am wondering about the colours used on the Imperial insigina, did the Empire have any particular colours it endorsed, or was any colour allowed to be adopted. Usually it is white on black such as with an Imperial pilot [] However on the AT-AT drivers at Hoth the insignia is red [] In addition, as a logo nut I wonder if there is an official width standard od the inner circle with rays and the outlying band, which seem to variate from site to site which I look at. The TIE pilot's insignia shows very broad rays coming out of the centre circle [] as well as the Superlaser Gunner on the first Death Star [] Meanwhile while I was searching on google, I found that at Starwars.com they depicted a logo with narrow beams coming out of the centre and a broad outer band. [] Are these emblems interchangeable, or is their a discrepency?
 * Well, I don't think the logo stands for anything. As for the colors, the most offical one is the black and white one. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 19:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * My personal interpretation of the logo is that it is a symbol of the galaxy with the circle in the centre being the core worlds, or Imperial Centre itself with "rays of the Emperor's will" power, or influence stretching into the the Galaxy, particularly the Middle Worlds, while the jutted outer circle represents the echo and impact of the Emperor's will and power in the Outer Rim, an area notorious for lawlessness. I know its complex, but if you think it over, you'll know what I'm saying That's the possible symbolism I could make out of it, does it sound reasonable?
 * Well, I'm sure you could interpret it in many ways. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 01:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes you can, but usually symbolism revolves around political motivation, I recognize that in many cases insignia for any organization have meaning and it is usual for them to be based on the name and/or principles of the organization itself as well as art The Nazi flag was designed both out of art by Hitler and to symbolize his twisted National Socialism. The swastika stood for nationalism and good luck, the white stood for the supposide Aryan Race, and the red stood for socialism. So yes you can look at a flag or emblem as a work of art, but so yes there can be other interpretations, perhaps the Imperial emblem symbolizes the galactic reign of the Sith, or a galactic political motivation. I know that George Lucas just picked it out of a batch of possible insignia presented to him, and I personally think his choice was a good one, as it is unique and strikes at you as a symbol just like the Hammer-and-sickle and the swastika.
 * True. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 12:58, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The color's were symbolic, but not necessarily in a single way, and some of the symbolism may be "historical retconning". One I do know that Hitler mentioned was that the flag used Black/White/Red because that was the colors of the German Empire during what the Nazi's called the "Second Reich", as contrasted to the black/red/gold of the post WWI Weimar Republic. I'm bemused about Palpatine making the Empire/Republic Navy/whatever's symbol more similar to the CIS symbol myself, but...eh.
 * Well, Palpatine didn't make the Imperial insigna as far as we know, as I've said at least four times throughout this talk page. Someone, maybe Palpatine, created it for the Republic Navy, and Palpatine made it the Imperial insigna. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 13:42, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

here: When Palpatine took over the Old Republic and transformed it into the Galactic Empire, and installed himself as Emperor, he removed 2 spokes from the original 8-sided symbol, forming a 6-sided symbol. 7 could represent the Sith and their ideas, as Palpatine is a Sith. It could also mean that the “corruption” of the Old Republic is taken away, hence the removal of 2 spokes, it could also mean that the belief in the force is now frowned upon by society and the Government and the Jedi are now almost extinct. It could also mean centralization, as there are only 6 spokes, not as much power into others and into the central Imperial government. The symbol’s color is often colored red, showing royalty, diplomacy, and Officiality. It is also gray, showing the transformation to an Empire from an Republic, Statism and Fascism, instead of Republic and Democracy. They are not smooth, they are geometric representing the Military, which is more built up, has an important role in society, and the Imperial Fleet is built up. The logo also features similarities with the logos of both the Confederacy of Independent Systems and the Galactic Republic to signal that the galaxy was now united, under his rule.

http://www.geocities.com/leesci@sbcglobal.net/sw/symbols.html

-SWF
 * No, as you'll see in the next section, the Imperial insigna was first used as the Republic Navy's. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 02:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The Republic Emblem has 8 spokes, the Imperial one has 6 spokes when Emperor Palpatine defaced it, removing two spokes, in a way saying "**** you" to the Jedi -SWF
 * No, that's not it. Has anyone been paying attention to what I've been saying? The Republic Navy used that insigna during the Clone Wars, before the Empire came to power. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 02:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Does Anyone know when the Republic's round insignia was replaced by the Empire's?
The Empire was suddenly declared by Palpatine, and I am wondering if anyone knows when the Imperial emblem replaced the similar Republic emblem?
 * The Imperial emblem was used by the Republic Navy during the Clone Wars (see a picture of a clone pilot, you'll notice it on their shoulders, or Anakin's Eta-2). Why Palpatine chose it for the Empire is beyond me, though. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 01:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The symbol in the Clone Wars is the Republic's symbol - it is similar, but has more spokes. Palpatine simply removed some for his Empire (like Hitler defacing the Swatstika) QuentinGeorge 04:45, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, Palpatine couldn't have removed some for his Empire when it didn't exist yet. Unless Palpatine came up with the idea of the insignia for the Republic Navy, which he later used as the Empire's. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Please read what I wrote. The symbol used for the Republic Navy is the Republic symbol, and had been used for thousands of years. The Imperial Symbol did not appear until the Declaration of a New Order. QuentinGeorge 23:15, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * No, that's incorrect. Look at Anakin's Eta-2. Look at the shoulders of clone pilots from Episode III. The insignia that was used by the Republic Navy later became the Imperial insignia. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 00:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I wrote the initial question, and I agree with QuentinGeorge, the Republic's symbol is different than the Empire's. The Republic's is more simple, while the Empire's is more stylized. Perhaps they're meant to be same thing. For QuentinGeorge, I'd like to say that Hitler ALSO defaced the Iron Cross in the same way Palpatine defaced the Republic's emblem. An ordinary Iron Cross is curved and can be seen on WWI Luftwaffe aircraft, a Nazi iron cross is a square-edged cross, used on WWII Luftwaffe aircraft. Anyway, whether the Imperial emblem is in ROTS or not, does anyone know when the Imperial emblem was officially adopted or could you estimate a general time period?
 * Yes, the Republic symbol is different from the Imperial symbol, but the Republic used the symbol that would later become the Imperial symbol for it's navy. Has anyone been listening to me? Just look in the Episode III Visual Dictionary. Look on Anakin's Eta-2; the shoulders of clone pilots. The symbol that would later symbol the Empire is there. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 20:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I know that the Republic emblem is obviously the primative form of the stylized Imperial emblem, I was simply wondering if the modern Imperial emblem came in in 19 B.B.Y. or afterwards. However I thank you Nebulax for telling me about the Eta Fighter emblem, because I looked at the scene where the buzz droid is near Artoo, and I noticed that the emblem was different from the Republic emblem shown under the Galactic Republic section, in that the Eta's emblem has six rectangular prongs coming out of the centre sphere like the modern Imperial emblem, two less than the version which is seen in the Galactic Republic section. So yes, the emblem did develop over time.
 * "The starboard wing of Obi Wan's craft is marked with a symbol of a disc with eight spokes. This ancient icon dates to the Bendu monks' study of numerology wherein the number nine (eight spokes joined to one disc) signifies the beneficient presence of the Force in a unitary galaxy. After the fall of the Galactic Republic 1000 generations later, The Emperor will personalize this symbol by defacing the icon with the removal of two spokes." = Star Wars Attack of the Clones: Incredible Cross-Sections TIEPilot051999 06:13, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, that's no longer acturate. Skywalker's Eta-2 has the pre-Imperial Imperial symbol on it. Whether Palpatine created it is unknown now. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 18:42, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Military symbolism
The Empire's military - ie their AT-ATs, their stormtroopers, Star Destroyers etc were key parts of the symbolism of this Empire. . . why not add an image in of one of them? They're as much a symbol of the Empire as Palpatine is 211.30.161.57 08:47, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think having those images here is really necessary. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 11:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

sith orgnision
Empire is not a sith orgnision, it was just created and ruled for most part by a sith Most of its officials were not sith. Empire existed for at list for sometime under a non-sith leadership. King2006 05:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This could be looked at multiple ways, I suppose. One could argue that only under Palpatine's rule was it a Sith organization. It comes down to point of view. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 12:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Kind to think of it, under mostly all of the Galactic Emperors' rules, it was a Sith organization. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Member Worlds
Does anyone think this article should have a member worlds section? User:Odintheking
 * It would get pretty large. -- SFH 21:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Galactic Empire was what it's name suggests&mdash;a Galaxy-wide empire. There's no need for a member worlds list. Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:12, 17 April 2006 (UTC)