Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Barel Ovair


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Barel Ovair

 * Nominated by: &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 19:36, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: Trying to nom something simple this time. This article is paired pretty closely with Eison Gynt and has only one appearance/source. Looking forward to your comments and objections.

(3 ACs/4 Users/7 Total)
Support
 * 1) Much improved. An interesting read. I like. SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 23:55, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  JangFett  (Talk) 03:27, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Well done&mdash;your handling of objections is impressive. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 23:03, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)  Jonjedigrandmaster  Jedi symbol.svg ( We seed the stars ) 18:44, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5)  Clone Commander Lee  Talk 10:54, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) Keep on rockin' in the free world.  Chack Jadson  (Talk)  20:07, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7)  CC7567  (talk) 17:46, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Fett
 * 2) * You're missing needed information in both the intro and bio. I.e, He was a Human male.
 * 3) **Added human male to description. Not sure what else would be missing, as the timeline was light on biographical information such as place of birth, etc. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) ***"Human male" was all that was needed.
 * 5) * "As a Jedi Master, Ovair took a promising" "promising" sounds like poi/OR, if anything. Are you sure that he was described as "promising"?
 * 6) **Exact quote from transcript: "widely considered to be the most promising padawan in the order". &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) * You say he has taken a Padawan in the bio, but it's not mentioned in the intro. You also mention that he was a spy, and among other things in the intro, although they aren't mentioned in the bio.
 * 8) **Elaborated on actually "taking" a padawan in the intro and not simply having a padawan. Elaborated on why he was spying in the bio and not just that he was a "sith infiltrator". &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) * "Gynt returned several years later" Returned where?
 * 10) **Clarified that he was resurfacing on Coruscant. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) |
 * 11) * When you say that Ovair was "defeated" in both the intro and bio, do you mean that he was killed? Please, clarify.
 * 12) **Clarified that Gynt was killed by Ovair. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13) * The improper usage of the "Equipment" section could be merged with the "Power and abilities," sine it only contains a single sentence.
 * 14) **Merged. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15) * "Ovair was a Jedi Master from a respected family line of Jedi. He was also a trained Sith infiltrator of the Sith Emperor." These should be mentioned with the bio, rather than the Power and abilities section.
 * 16) **Moved. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17) * If he did speak and if he was mentioned by others, then the article needs a P&T.
 * 18) **He did not speak. He was seen only in flashbacks and the events were narrated by Gnost-Dural who did not speculate on his motivations or describe his personality. If I were to attempt to add a P&t section, I would only be able to describe him physically. Should I do so? &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 19) ***You can, however, it's optional, as he did not speak.
 * 20) *Please watching your linking. Also, note that "Padawan" should be capitalized.  JangFett  (Talk) 22:46, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 21) **Yes, I saw you make those changes in your copy-edit. I will run through the article again to make sure the linking is correct. Thank you for the review! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 22) If it is not stated that his master was the Sith Emperor, it shouldn't be in the infobox. Possible more to come.  Clone Commander Lee  Talk 14:07, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 23) *Hmm. Not sure who added that. Thanks for the catch! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 03:35, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 24) Soresu
 * 25) * What do you mean when you say his eye colour is brown and yellow?
 * 26) **Some images in the timeline show them as brown, but after Gnost-Dural declares his allegiance to the Sith Empire, they appear orange-yellow. I am assuming this is a portrayal of dark side corruption as seen in Darth Caedus. I have elaborated on this in the infobox. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 22:19, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 27) * Try to keep paragraph length similar. That first paragraph in the bio looks glaringly out of place.
 * 28) **Good point, combined. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 22:19, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 29) * Then one day. This sounds unprofessional. Use something else like "on one of their missions".
 * 30) **It's also kind of a weasle-word phrase. Struck. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 22:19, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 31) * Bio should probably mention species and gender as well.
 * 32) **Added. Also, "human" is not capitalized, correct? &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 22:19, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 33) ***Actually, no, all sentient species' names are capitalised. I fixed it up. SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 23:55, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 34) ****Oh! My bad, good to know! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 02:56, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 35) * Instead of revealing the purpose of the mission to Yavin at the end, as one would in the source, explain his motives as you write of the events, while noting that his Padawan, or whoever, were unaware of them. It's more encyclopedic.
 * 36) **Good advice. Altered the text to be more clear about his dual role throughout the events. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 23:32, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 37) * Is it known what he's doing in that image? If it's anything of significance it should be in the bio.
 * 38) **Double-checked and confirmed that it was Ovair being debriefed after dueling and slaying Gynt. I modified the language of that section to more closely resemble that of the transcript. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 23:32, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 39) *Notes on a few things I fixed up. Image and quote captions should have periods at the end if they are full sentences, the galaxy should be linked, and previous ancestors is a little redundant. Overall though, it's well done. SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 05:52, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 40) **Thanks! And thank you for the review! I will address those last two points later tonight. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 22:19, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 41) **Okay, last two points addressed, thanks again! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 23:32, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 42) From the Trayus Academy:
 * 43) * You should add a wee bit of context for Gynt in the intro.
 * 44) **Added: Ovair took Eison Gynt, a highly skilled Nautolan male Padawan from another line of Knights, as his apprentice, … Also varied "promising" with "talented" between bio and p&t sections. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 45) * Add in an indicator of the time period in the beginning of the bio.
 * 46) **Mentioned a century before Great Galactic War and then put a hard date on the mission year, deleting the date from later in the paragraph. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 47) ***Good, but I believe it was a century before the end of the Great War, and only like 75 years before the beginning of the war itself. I've changed the clause accordingly, to make it a bit more ambiguous. Feel free to alter it if you would prefer it another way.
 * 48) * You state twice in the bio why Ovair was destroying Sith spirits&mdash;once in the first paragraph and once at the very end of the final paragraph. You'll need to vary or remove one or the other.
 * 49) **Truncated the last sentence to: The historian deduced that Ovair had used Gynt to draw out Sadow's spirit to eliminate it prior to the invasion of the Republic. I want something there to wrap up the paragraph and mention Gnost-Dural's revelation last, but without being too repetitive. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 50) * I would change "incoherent" to "heavily wounded" as "incoherent and half-insane" are in a way referring to the same condition.
 * 51) **Well, the source text says "wounded and half-insane", and I changed the article text to "incoherent and injured", which I like as synonyms (and for pseudo-alliteration). Will that suffice? &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 52) ***Absolutely.
 * 53) * You need to state that his report on the mission was to the Senate.
 * 54) **Added. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 55) * You'll want to state that the Yavin mission occurred in 3,756 BBY in the first paragraph and remove the mention in the second paragraph.
 * 56) **Already done (see above). &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 57) *Well done, otherwise. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 22:25, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 58) **Thanks for the review! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:20, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 59) Please watch your wording, several things are taken verbatim or almost verbatim from the source. Some examples would be: "studying the mysteries of the Force," "increasingly ambitious tasks," "attacked him in broad daylight," "they assumed that all was well." Please reword/tweak these and double-check for other similar occurances throughout the article. Also, I've added a quote to the bio, since there were plenty of quotes available; feel free to change it if you think a different one would be a better fit. Otherwise, fine work.  Jonjedigrandmaster  Jedi symbol.svg ( We seed the stars ) 00:22, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 60) *Truncated to studying the Force--
 * 61) *I actually like increasingly ambitious tasks compared to "Over the years, the pair became more and more ambitious", but I've changed "ambitious" to demanding--
 * 62) *Changed to in full view of the public eye--
 * 63) *Changed to but did not come under suspicion and Ovair's triumph was praised.--
 * 64) *I checked the rest of the article and made a couple changes around overuse of "possession". Also, I like the quote. It's much easier to find quotes about Ovair than Gynt in this transcript. Thanks for the review and for the copy-edit! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:24, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 65) Few small things:
 * 66) * "Ovair took as his Padawan a talented young Nautolan named Eison Gynt, who was also a fourth generation Jedi Knights." First off, it shouldn't be "Jedi Knights". :P Second, does this mean that Ovair was, like Gynt, a fourth-gen Jedi, or simply that Gynt happened to be a fourth-gen Jedi? If it's the former, this should be stated earlier and more explicitly (about Gynt), if not, never mind.
 * 67) **Just a weird sentence. Fixed to: In his role as a Jedi Master, Ovair took a talented young Nautolan named Eison Gynt, a fourth generation Jedi Knight, as his Padawan. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 21:32, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 68) * I'd prefer that you changed the "undercover" in the affiliations section of the infobox to "ostensibly" or something. As is, I feel it's confusing and comes across contrary to what the rest of the article says. Is that ok?
 * 69) **Happily done. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 21:32, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 70) *Otherwise, nice work.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:18, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 71) **Thanks for the review and the copy-edit! &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 21:32, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 72) Can the article get a P&T? I know your reasoning on why you haven't put one in, but the fact of the matter is that even if we don't know his motivations, his position as a spy for the Sith Emperor within the Jedi Order is still noteworthy. Even if it comes down to saying "He worked as a spy for the Sith Emperor in the Jedi Order" to avoid speculation regarding his true feelings, it's better than nothing. Please try to implement one and let me know if it's absolutely impossible to do so.  CC7567  (talk) 20:18, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * 73) *Here's my attempt: Ovair operated simultaneously as a Jedi scholar and as a Sith infiltrator for decades without detection by the Jedi Order and the Galactic Republic. This role was one he inherited from his father and his grandfather. On behalf of the Sith Empire, and ostensibly the Jedi Order, he undertook many daunting missions, such as the one to Naga Sadow's tomb on Yavin 4. Ovair had fair skin with brown hair and eyes, although his eyes would turn orange-yellow when his corruption by the dark side of the Force was revealed. It seems to me like this is just a duplication of the Bio information, which is why I added the physical description text to provide at least some new info (and to make the paragraph a little longer). Also rewrote the Barel Ovair's grandfather article and added the Barel Ovair's father article, so at least this section provides those links for the first time. Does this work for a P&t? I honestly don't know what else I could add to it. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 14:15, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * 74) **That's fine, but next time, please note the proper placement of the P&T before the P&A. Also, I'd just like you to know that even when a character's reasons are not always revealed, the P&T serves as a method to outline his/her most important actions and let the reader assume what the reasons are.  CC7567  (talk) 17:46, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comments


 * Just as a note: if Gynt family is successfully TC'd, then you'll have to remove the link from this article's intro and from Gynt's intro. Jonjedigrandmaster  Jedi symbol.svg ( We seed the stars ) 18:46, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, as soon as that goes through I will remove the link from those articles. In fact, I might as well do that now. Done. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 19:20, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not particularly objection-worthy, but could you verify the "Inter-Sith Wars Period" disambiguation parts of the event links? Per WP:DASH, it should be "Inter–Sith Wars Period" with an en dash.  CC7567  (talk) 21:23, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Confirmed. I noticed that earlier and have been copying directly from the article title to make sure. When I checked I realized I never linked in the biography, so I added a link there. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 21:32, April 30, 2010 (UTC)