Talk:Darth Nihilus

Species
Just what was/is Nihilus, species wise? Also, does he remind anybody else of the Ringwraiths from the Lord of the Rings? (Beings consumed by darkness so greatly that they have nearly lost physical form)

Lord Patrick 05:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * His species is never revealed. And yes, I suspect that's where Obsidian got their inspiration... they just added a clown mask. --Imperialles 10:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, there's clearly a human face under the mask on the intro picture of Sion, Nihilus and Visas. Although it's more brown and wrinkly than a normal human face, it appears. - Sikon 13:07, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm just going to make it clear that Nihilus was HUMAN. Kreia says that he is no longer human. Which clearly means, he was at some point in his life, HUMAN. Redemption 02:13, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But what does 'no longer' mean? how can someone change their species?? :) In any case i added the "dark Side" category to define this, since he became a 'Forcial' entity. MoffRebus 13:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Redemption, Kreia never says he was no longer a human. She said he was no longer a man. Although you can "assume" man = male human, it may not. So, his race/species is still an unknown. Matadore 09:03, 20 May 2006 (EST)
 * Maybe he's not even a being anymore but the full embodiment of darkside evilstuff. -- Riffsyphon1024 11:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * So, if he's never said to be human, why does it say so in the article? Charlii 11:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good question. -- Riffsyphon1024 13:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe he's a human. Whenever you ask Visas what she saw when she looked upon him, depending on what you say, she replies with ,'I saw a man, nothing more.' If he was of another species, wouldn't she have gotten more specific? Just a thought. Warhobbe 01:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. "I saw a Duros, nothing more," really kind of interrupts the flow of the moment.SithPower 03:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I actually thought he was a Zabrak because of the horns it looks like he has.
 * Maybe it's just me, but his mask is reminiscent of a Kaleesh mask.IAmANerd 03:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree,iamanerd he does look like a Kaleesh.BaccaraDarkness

Anyone think that Nhilius could be a Sith? (I know he's part of the faction but i'm talking the species) if you listne to Atris' Sith Holocrons and then listne to how he sounds they sound alike Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 14:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC) It could just as easily mean he's a Chiss, or a Zabrak, or an Anzati, or even a Twi'lek. I'm actually inclined to agree with IAmANerd on this; his mask is very remeniscient of the KaleeshDarth Ceratis 02:38, 16 October 2006 (UTC) Nihilus' mask was based off of a concept that it was part of Revan's skull, and that idea obviously didn't follow to the actual making in the game. Although now, since it is no longer Revan's skull, it could be made to where it explains his former species. Tysis
 * When I was doing a little editing of the image in photoshop, I took note of somethings I never noticed. The center is not part of the mask but rather his nose and there are clear distinctions of a chin. Throughout the entire game, he is referred to as "a man" (or once was, or just is, or whatever). I believe this is suitable evidence to declare that Nihilus is "human". -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 01:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Chiss' and Zabraks are never referred to as "men". "Man" is a term used for HUMAN beings. The game strongly suggests that Nihilus is of MAN. (Also Chiss have blue skin, you can faintly make out the skin color on Nihilus' nose) -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 03:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just as well if you look under the mid-biography section, you can clearly see that Kreia refers to him as a human.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 21:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * To Darth Ceratis and anyone else making assumptions based on the mask

Dark Lord?
Darth Nihilus is listed in the Sith Masters category. Should Darth Nihilus be counted as the Dark Lord of the Sith? --User:SFH
 * I'm going to ditch the silly over-categorisation of the Sith anyway, so it doesn't matter. QuentinGeorge 22:29, 6 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, but is he counted among the Dark Lords? --User:SFH
 * I would say no, mainly because, no acutally i would say yes. mainly because, following canon Revan returned to the Jedi and so naturally Darth Traya would become DLS, but when Nihilus and Sion betrayed her one of them would have taken the title for themselves. Most likely being Nihilus! Jasca Ducato 10:00, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Is it why there is not a succession box at the end of the article? MoffRebus 02:01, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * After a long argument, it was determined that neither Darth Traya, Darth Sion nor Darth Nihilus were ever Dark Lord of the Sith. QuentinGeorge 02:07, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Then why the hell is KotOR II subtitled "The Sith Lords"????
 * Read the article on Sith Lord. It means a lot of things. -- SFH 02:31, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Well both of you would be wrong, they are Dark Lords, or at least Nihilus at most. They should be included, and it is also not up to either of you since it seems like instead of canon or reliable sources, you have posted opinions. Put them back in.
 * Well show me some Canon information that they were classed as Dark Lords. Nihilus's goals don't fit with the standard Dark Lord goals. Visas does refer to him as "milord" though. Phillowe88 14:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Kreia: "He is one of the Dark Lords that follows you" Pretty specific. They use Sith Lord and Dark Lord pretty interchangably in the KotOR games. Maybe after casting down Kreia, he and Sion granted both of themselves the title. I dunno, it doesn't really bother me. (Ulicus 16:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC))


 * I added a box for Kreia, Nihilus and Sion that says "Leader of the Sith." Until we get more info, that should be sufficient. Thoughts?SithPower 22:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed the info in the box, which make it (i guess) less possibly to be reverted by others. Darth Kevinmhk 03:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * In "Evil Never Dies" he is refered to as a Dark Lord of the Sith, though slightly indirect. Will anybody try to kill me if I change the article to reflect this? Charlii 13:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you kindly quote the relevant sentences? Darth Kevinmhk 12:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Many times the title of "the last Dark Lord" has been erroneously applied. First the Dark Lord Naga Sadow, vanquished by the Galactic Republic in the Great Hyperspace War 5,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, was thought to be the last. Then a thousand years later, the fallen Jedi Exar Kun was considered the last of these dark siders' twisted kind. Then Darth Nihilus... then Lord Kaan... then Darth Vader." So, basicly it could be read as he was erroneously called Dark Lord, but that is if you really hate the thought. Charlii 13:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I am open to suggestions, let more people voice their opinion :) ! Darth Kevinmhk 00:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If it actually says that, then put it. I don't have Hyperspace so I have to trust the rest of you.SithPower 02:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The Sith Triumvirate was a loose affiliation made up of three sects of what remained of the Sith Empire. It consisted of not only former Sith soldiers, Dark Jedi, Sith Apprentices, and Sith Masters, but even Sith Lords. All of these sects came under the influence of the three strongest Sith Lords. They, becoming the three leaders of the now combined forces, would be recognized as somewhat co-Dark Lords of the Sith. After Nihilus and Sion banished Traya, then the two of them became co-equals together... but only for a short time. Their ideals not matching each other, they soon went their seperate ways. After this, the Triumvirate no longer existed and the underlings followed who they wished. In this sense, they then became the Dark Lord of the Sith over their followers.--Master Dakari 02:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Mandalorian prisoner?
Where did it say he was a prisoner of the Mandalorians? I thought he wasn't heard of until after Malachor V... (I guess I need a little light shed into this backstory for further clarification, help sort out other bits of rumors about his backstory) DAWUSS 13:53, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't get this prisoner reference either. Someone care to explain? --Fade 19:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It is never mentioned that he is a prisoner of the Mandalorians, Kriea, while talking to the Exile describes how Darth Nihilus fled his prison (the planet Malachor V itself). Chances are he was a Jedi that fought with Revan & Malak during the Jedi Civil War but got left behind on Malachor V after the battle for some reason, maybe to look after the Trayus Academy. Being a Sith he betrayed his order and left the planet. Jasca Ducato 17:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Kreia tells the Exile that Nihilus "is of that place" (Malachor V). That doesn't mean he was some Mandalorian prisioner. All of that is pure speculation, and I think it should be taken out of the Wiki "bio" until more valid information is available on the origins of Darth Nihilus. Unless you like giving out false information. Matadore 09:13, 20 May 2006 (EST)

Force Consuming?
What does it mean when he "Consumes the Force"? I don't get it. Cato Neimoidia 02:51, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it means he drains the midi-chlorians from a living thing, but I'm not sure. -- SFH 02:52, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

How did he get into this situation where he has to Feed of people though, he started as a human, why the change?
 * He is a "wound" in the Force, like Kreia and the Exile. He consumes the Force and living things so that he can "sustain" his existance. He is drawn to Force-sensatives, according to Visas Marr. But he can feed off life itself, as Colonel Tobin explains when you encounter him on the Ravenger. It has nothing to do with midi-chlorians. Matadore 09:22, 20 May 2006 (EST)
 * Well what does it mean to "consume"? Does it mean to put into mouth and swallow or what? -- Cato Neimoidia 19:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He is a "wound" in the Force, like Kreia and the Exile. Don't generalize. Not to Kreia, at least. - Sikon [ Talk ] 00:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He "consumes" it like one consumes energy or fuel. If you set wood on fire, the fire will "consume" the wood and eventually there'll only be ash left. Nihilus has to use the Force in a similar fashion to keep himself 'alive', except when he's done, not even ashes remain - the Force he consumed is just *gone*. There's nothing left and if he had been allowed to continue on uninterrupted, he'd eventually have consumed the entirety of life and the Force leaving himself until last. Then there would be nothing at all. Hence 'Nihilus'.(Ulicus 16:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC))

I like the points you made, Ulicus. I always pictured him as like a "black hole" in the Force; consuming it so completely similar to the way a black hole consumes light. Also, Kreia tells you that he, similar to Sion, is already dead. It is only a matter of time until he, too, falls. He consumes the Force in order to sustain his existence. He learned to technique of of Hunger (Force consumtion), but did not master it. Instead, it mastered him. He is no longer the person he once was. The living being he used to be is long gone. All that exists now is the dead physical body and the insatiable, animal appetite that is driven by the Dark Side. I'm not even sure Nihilus even knows what he is doing most of the time. Like Kreia says, "I kow of them, yes. And how much like beasts they have become." And I think that fits perfectly to describe Nihilus.--Master Dakari 02:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Should Zayne Carrick actually become Nihilus, perhaps we will get to see how he became that way.--Darth OblivionComlink[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 03:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber Form

 * Forgive me, i have not yet played KOTOR2... But i got the impression that the seven forms of lightsaber combat was introduced and usable in KOTOR2. So I assume player can determine Nihilus' combat form by observing his in-game style. Then why there is no reference in the article despite he used Malak's style? Thx! Darth Kevinmhk 02:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The seven styles are only implemented as gameplay mechanics and have no visual differences. - Sikon [ Talk ] 14:25, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 06:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The statement in the "Behind the Scenes" section of Nihilus's bio that says that he uses the same lightsaber form as Darth Malak is 100% speculation. The 7 lightsaber forms are presented in KOTOR II, and some do offer a few different animations (also your level and improved power attack, flurry, and critical hit offer new animations as well), but Nihilus's lightsaber form is just the basic attacks. That's why it looks similar to Malak's form... because in KOTOR, the only form was the basic form. Matadore 09:30, 20 May 2006 (EST)
 * Actually because Nihilus and Malak use the same base model and animations, they use the same saber form. :P --Redemption 00:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity is it possible to get the animations of Nihilus's lightsaber form to use for your character? Also, is it just me, or does his lightsaber style slightly modified from malak's style to the point where it looks like a lot like sidious's lightsaber style from the film as both styles incorporate fancy lightsaber handling similiar to Makashi and acrobatics sometimes?-Darth Necros

Profile Pic

 * Alright, in order to avoid further edit wars, let's settle it here: The Awesome Promo or The Ingame Cap Screen? I like the Promo much more. Darth Kevinmhk 07:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I prefer the promo, and I think headshots are better for profile pictures anyway. - Lord Hydronium 08:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The "Ingame" image is way too dark, and a PNG. - Sikon [ Talk ] 08:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Which can always be fixed. Anyway, I didn't change the image to the in-game shot (despite that I uploaded it) so can't blame me for this one. Doesn't really make a difference in my opinion which one. --Redemption 20:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This is it? The response is much poor than I expected! Darth Kevinmhk 02:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Promo. It is far more professional.--Sentry 03:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * How about this one?

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3817/tehsith2if.jpg

It's a good screenshot IMO, and it's more physically descriptive. --Sauron18 19:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC) --Redemption 20:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * God no. Telos is probably the worst place to be to take screenshots (shaders are awful there). Too much contrast also in that one. Best to keep him on the Ravager in an appropiate setting. Which is why I always station Visas at her meditation chamber, Mira on Nar Shaddaa, Kreia on Malachor, and Sion on Korriban. Besides, promotional gets first dibs on infoboxes. --Redemption 19:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's the best lighted screenshot, and it's more physically descriptive than the promos. That's all I'm saying. --Sauron18 20:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, its horribly lighted. There is such thing as too much light. Nevertheless, promo stays. (unless an overwhelming majority wants this one instead) --Redemption 20:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I just feel like the promo is too confining, claustrophobic, only a picture of their face, and I feel the whole upper body always makes for a better picture, like Traya and Sion. --Sauron18 20:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There isn't any need to show more of Nihilus' upperbody. It's all just black robe.
 * On the contrary, despite his clothes being all black, they are not just a robe that covers arms, legs and everything, which is how he is most commonly portrayed in various art pieces. An in-game screen capture really shows his features more prominently as well as his attire. --Sauron18 20:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * My vote stays on the Promo. Darth Kevinmhk 03:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We have Traya's upper body for the reason that we never see her face and shes pretty small. We look at Sion's upper body because it "looks like he slept with a bunch of vibroblades".  Whats the first thing you look at when you see Nihilus?  His face.  We dont say "OOOOOOO, look at that cool black robe, like all the other Sith have!"  Also, he is pretty big.
 * How about this or this ? --Sauron18 23:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I myself prefer the second btw, but I wanted to know what you think. --Sauron18 00:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that from the startup screen? It looks like the current one but without the lightsaber. I vote to keep the one we have. Charlii 11:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Both of them are great pictures, but I prefer the current one too. If the article is long enough, maybe we could add more pics into it. Darth Kevinmhk 15:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Death
i do not think the fact that he didnt dissapear is a glitch. It is probably a last minute change because a sith dont deserve to dissapear. And the fact that you can tell visas to take his mask if he dissapeared i dont think you could take his mask. Ralok 20:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC) Dev Notes: {There is a final death rattle sound in Nihilus' voice, then it dissolves into a black cloud.}
 * No, it's a glitch. One I've never gotten. Visas takes the mask before he disappears.
 * He's dead countdooku, reverting the article again. Jedi Dude 22:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Speculation
Just how much speculation should be allowed into the BTS section? Can't people use forum boards for that? Charlii 09:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Consensus track or Senate Hall suits to house your question better. Darth Kevinmhk 11:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think he's talking specifically about this page. There does seem to be too much in the BtS section - it looks about as big as the article itself - Kwenn 11:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, because we know next to nothing about the truth of the canonical Nihilus... so I think a little more bts in this case is acceptable. Darth Kevinmhk 02:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Darth Nihilus Master
According the the Star Wars New Essential Chronology Guide and the Star Wars Ultimate Visual Dictionary, Darth Nihilus is considered to be the Master over Darth Sion after they overthrow Kreia. So shouldnt that be put in both Nihilus' and Sion's articles? Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but I am new to wikia stuff so I am just making sure the true Canon is put in the articles. Scyrone
 * Exact quote, please? - Sikon [ Talk ] 19:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The NEC doesn't even say that they overthrew Traya, and it would give a casual reader the (incorrect) idea that Sion was the one in charge, as he is the only one that's mentioned twice and has a picture in the book. Charlii 20:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, my mistake, it says DIRECTLY from the Star Wars Ultimate Visual Guide, "Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, is the Sith apprentice to Darth Nihilus. His body parts are held together by sheer will and hatred."  There.  Thats exactly what it says, in italics, under a round edged picture of his face in the SWUVG.  You might not think its true, but to prove it you can go to your local library or Barnes and Noble and check it out for yourself (page 27).
 * Of course, right besides the picture of Atris which is labelled "Handmaiden" :P--Sauron18 02:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're trying to say, but canon is canon. If the above qoute is correct, then that fact should be in the article. Charlii 05:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes I know, I'm just saying that this particular source isn't always sparkly and perfect, and if there are other canon sources which contradict them, then we should go with them. I'm just saying, since that Atris thing.....well it's slightly preocupying. Oh and it does say that btw.--Sauron18 06:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am just trying to fight for true canon, I hate it when people come and make all these assumptions about Star Wars even though true canon is right in front of them (happens in a few websites I have joined excluding this one)
 * Was there ever anything in other sources against them being master and apprentice in some way?--Sauron18 00:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really, people might make that asumtion based on the scene in KotoRII when they throw out Traya (he is the only one to talk, well Nihilus doesn't talk at all...) and the NEC when he is the only one with a picture and a description of his career, but no facts. There is nothing to override the statement in the Ultimate Visual Guide. Charlii 14:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Great, then we're good to go with it.:)--Sauron18 20:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if this overrides that statement, but here is a line that Kreia says if you ask her about Visas. "She serves one of the greatest of the Sith, she is the most trusted... and only apprentice. Yet you spare her. Why?" Now, from this it looks like the rule of two is indeed in place, and Visas is Nihilus's apprentice, not Sion. Another possible explanation for the book calling Sion Nihilus's apprentice is that maybe its a typo. Typos happen, just like in the picture of Atris, next to Sion's picture, which says she is the Handmaiden. Is it possible that the line was meant to read: "Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, is the Sith apprentice to Darth Traya. His body parts are held together by sheer will and hatred." ?I have no intention of sparking an argument, but the statement of Sion being Nihilus's apprentice just seems to conflict with all of the evidence in the game that says he isn't.

Too Many Quotes
Am I the only one who feels like he has too many quotes in the first part of the article? --Sauron18 15:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Sith Assassin?
Was Nihilus an assassin before becoming a Sith Lord? We know Sion was, and in Chronicles of the Old Republic it says Kreia trained Sith Assassins, so unless there is evidecne against it I'd say that's implying that Nihilus was one of these guys who got "promoted" or something. --Sauron18 15:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We know Sion was? - Sikon [ Talk ] 15:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it says on his entry. --Sauron18 15:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Which, sadly, doesnt really mean he is one. Darth Kevinmhk 02:52, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably. He ,appareantly, trained Visas in the ways of the Sith assassin, seeing as she carefully disabled the crew of the Ebon Hawk, without the Exile being alerted. She'd have to pick it up from somewhere - and I doubt they had any 'Assassin/Sith training centers' on Katarr. Warhobbe 04:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well Traya trained Sith Assassins, so this is very probably what Nihilus was. --Sauron18 05:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * SPECULATIOOON!!! - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Sith Assassin" is a in-game title that I woudn't place too much weight in anyhow... Charlii 07:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's not so much speculation as it is conjecture, but it is known that Traya trained Sith Assasins after going to Malachor. Sion was an assassin, and it would seem Nihilus would have to be one to be considered as trained by Traya.--Sauron18 08:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

How do you say his name?
I have always wondered how to say it? Bis6 22:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC}
 * I believe it would be pronounced "Ni'hil·is" -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 03:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe the "h" is pretty much silent. It doesn't stand out as it would in the word "hill."--Darth OblivionComlink[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 03:01, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Species
Anyone think he may be a Sith (species) due to the way he talks sounding Just like the Holocorn dialogue. And that perhaps the diologue is not translated beaus the Sith Language is not a known language in the galaxy. Just like the girl in KOTOR I who spoke Gibberish or the Rakata Droid on Dantooine? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 21:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Speculations about anyone being a Sith are usually frowned upon. The little girl who stowawayed the Ebon Hawk spoke an incorrect version of Mandalorian which you, as the player, cannot understand. Not understanding the Rakatan droid on Dantooine is related to gameplay. Notice that later, on Rakata Prime, you understand Rakatan which is the same language the droid used. - TopAce 20:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't that latent empathy, or something like that? You can understand aliens with a Force presence, but not automatons? (The utility droid's warbling isn't exactly translated either, though you can guess fairly accurately at its meaning.) Custodes 09:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Master during KOTOR 2
I'm going to add a statement that says that he and sion went their separate ways before the shadow war in KOTOR 2. It seems pretty evident to me, from comments by Visas and Kreia, that they were both separate during this time. says in the NEC that Sion was apprentice under Nihilus, it's quite possible that Sion recieved tutoring under Nihilus for a time, but without any hard proof to back up this statement, at least during the shadow war they were not working together. if you have a problem with this, tell me, please. I'll revert it is you have proof i am wrong.Gotoisevil

Beneath the Mask
Although I found it somewhat frustrating that Nihilus' physical face was not shown in the game, I find even more frustrating that a clear verbal description wasn't given. Does anybody have a clear description about any of his physical qualities (Besides Visas' vauge answer to what she saw behind Nihilus' mask on the Ravager)?-Nickbuffington 7:9 AM 9/23/06

Atris vs. Nihilus Image
Several edits ago I inserted Image:Atris 4.jpg in the Behind the scenes section by:

"In promotional material for the game, Nihilus is seen as the personfication of the dark side, an opposite to Atris (although she represented the light, Atris had been corrupted by the dark side all along). Concept art shows a confrontation between the two, but Atris never actually interacts with Nihilus during the game."

Someone removed it on the next edit and I wanted to see if anyone else wants that image in the article?  Reignfire ( Holocron )  20:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added it back in. It was removed by User:212.186.67.54, who has a history of persistently removing pictures from this article. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 21:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

New quote
"Lord Nihilus, you escaped death by containing your consciousness within your armor. How?!"

- Darth Krayt

Maybe we should replace one of the current ones with it? - Sikon 04:22, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We could move the last paragraph of 'Biography' into a new section named 'Legacy' or something and put the quote at the top of that. We could move one of the quotes from the top into the 'Traits' section while we're at it too. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 19:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me try something. -  Angel Blue  (Holonet) 21:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Does that work? -  Angel Blue  (Holonet) 21:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * On second thought, I'm not sure if we need that quote. It seems kind of redundant in its current location. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 21:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's more a case of the location of the armor-consciousness information needing to be moved into the main biography rather than the quote. Havac 22:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There is really no place for the quote to go other than where it is now, so maybe it would be best not to have it. -  Angel Blue  (Holonet) 22:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not if he contained his consciousness within his mask, which is part of his armor... =P --Imp 23:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

"Lord Nihilus, you escaped death by containing your consciousness within your armor. How?!"
This just had me thinking. As we all know, Nihilus met his end when the Exile basically smashed whatever was behind that masks face in. HOWEVER, according to this quote, Nihilus escaped death by containing his consciousness within his armor...BUT a few moments after the Exile leaves, Nihilus' armor is destroyed (in a darker version of Kenobi and Yodas disappearing act). So, perhaps Krayt was not talking about a death at the hands of the Exile but rather a death at Malachor V. Just thought if such an idea would be put into the behind the scenes section, it'd be questioned as valid assumption. -- Redemption Talk 19:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC) It's very tricky to say Nihilus died, one way or another. I for one thought it was far too easy to kill him in the game. If he contained himself in his armor before, he could do it again in his mask or possibly even his lightsaber (both of which the Exile had the option to take with him) and transfer his essence to another host body at a later time. I'm really thinking Exar Kun right now. He was dead for centuries before he tried to posess others, and Nihilus's sheer power is definitely close to Kun's. I personally think lucasarts left it debateable on purpose in order to leave room for a KOTR3.Darth Ceratis 02:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC) I agree.-Vladius Magnum
 * This also applies to what CountDooku13 is saying about Nihilus' death in which Krayt basically says that Nihilus escaped death, therefore, didn't die. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that, I assume I am reading your comment correctly. "I need a name", keeps reverting it, so hopefully this will get sorted out.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I've never said I agreed with you. I personally think Krayt is referring to Nihilus' first death at Malachor. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But theres no way to know that Krayt was refering to this instant, and until we know all your doing is speculating, we saw him die..or 'die' Jedi Dude 22:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I am sorry. I was mistaken. Pray forgive me Redemtion. I assumed you were talking about his death at Malachor. If he wasn't a true essence, how can he die?-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This is what I'm speculating: Malachor, MSG turns on, yatta ya. Nihilus is present (presumbly Jedi). Somehow, he knew how to transfer his conciousness into the armor he was wearing (which would explain why he survived Malachor.) And then rose from the grave like a zombie (look closley at the eye holes of some promotional material). Bingo. Escaped death. Did his thing, blah, blah. Exile slaughters him and he obviously dies on the Ravager though his spirit still lingers in his holocron. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Using that logic, how can he be alive? Jedi Dude 22:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * True Jedi Dude, but Redemption if he survived once, who's to say he couldn't do it again.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Because Krayt said that he stored his conciouness into his armor. We all saw his armor being destroyed. His conciousness would have gone with it and so he wouldn't have escaped death. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What? If he was destroyed he could have done it again. That is what I am saying.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe he could have. Maybe he couldn't. He was a giant hole in the force at that point and who knows if he was capable of pulling that off. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Precisely. With someone as unpredictable as Nihilus, he is somewhat of an unknown. He could have done it, he could have not done it. Who knows? You don't, I don't, no one does! We don't know, and his death is perely speculative, and to be honest, to say he did or did not is an assumption, so we should put the ("") in order to indicate this.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No. That is just pure speculation. As far as we know, that was his final death. Palpatine is just as (if not, more) unpredictable. Should we put his final death in quotes too? -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You might as well, but his fate isn't clearly defined, and explained, except in the game, which doesn't relly give us much. Plus, he may be a force ghost, am I right? After all if his conciousness still exists, than he is like a force ghost. Did not Yoda say,"An old friend, has come back from the netherworld of the force...learned the secret of Immortality, he has." Last time I checked, immortal people aren't dead.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The whole force ghost thing is very weird and complicated in how it works. Is it really immortality? What type of immortality did Krayt want? For now, he is dead in all tense in purposes. This is all just speculation which can be thrown into the behind the scenes section. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, lets face it, until we know more he's dead, anything else is speculation. Jedi Dude 22:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is possible that Nihilus survived his encounter with the Exile. In fact, the NEC states that one 'Darth' did survive to carry on the Sith Order. BUT, we don't have enought evidence to prove anything yet.– 22:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I can be content with that, I will add it to the Behind the Scenes section the next time I can get to it. For now, he is dead. I agree, it is speculation.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 23:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * He's D-E-A-D. Not only does his body (including the armor) completely dissipate, but the ship is destroyed as well. So unless he pulled a Palpatine and found a way to possess other bodies (which would be rather... uninspired), he's dead for good. - Sikon 00:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We D-O-N-'T know that. Haven't you read the discussion? To say he is dead or alive is speculation.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 10:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No to say hes alive is speculation, we have seen his death, so therfore we assume he is gone until further evidence Jedi Dude 13:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine, but you must admit that the evidence is shady at best.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 20:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. This is just silly. We saw him die. His armor and everthing around him was destroyed. Being able to throw out ridiculous theories that "maybe he survived by doing x" does not give sufficient reason to doubt his death. Should we change Mace's article to say that maybe a flying pig swooped down and saved his life? Maybe we should acknowledge that Admiral Piett could still be out there because he could have hopped into his flying saucer and escaped the Executor. Come on. Havac 22:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh please, haven't you read my evidence earlier in this discussion? Mace could have caught on to a speeder, or something, after all Luke rolled down numerous vents, and caught on a spire at the bottom of Cloud City. You must understand what I am saying, Palpatine came back after all once so far as I know, and if Nihilus did it once he could do it again. Once again Yoda called being a Force Ghost,"...the path to Immortality." And since Nihilus was as close to a force ghost anyway, when he could have became one for real. If his conciousness lingered in a holocron, your pig theory doesn't sound so far fetched. After all, this is Science Fiction. I mean as powerful and mysterious as Nihilus is, anything is possible. We have no idea if he died, Admiral Piett, might as well have died, because he was caught in an explosion, but Mace Windu did not die on screen, and we saw what Anakin could do on Coruscant right, what says Mace couldn't do that too? All I'm saying is that as undefined as Nihilus is, he could have survived, and it says nowhere I know that he died, at least nowhere that could be C-canon. In short, he could have survived, and we can't doubt that.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 22:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course he "could" have survived -- anyone "could" have survived. That's my whole point. What compelling reason do we have to doubt that Nihilus is dead when the quote in question almost certainly refers to Malachor? Havac 23:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, he could have survived. Since there is no solid proof that he died(Yes, we witnessed it, but given he can consume all life on a planet, we don't know the limits of his power), we can't say anything for sure. As for the quote, we don't know what is refering to, one of the reasons this discussion started.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 23:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Assuming he even did survive being sliced and diced by the Jedi Exile, he would've been blasted to smithereens mere minutes later. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 23:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not if he contained his consciousness within his mask, which is part of his armor... =P --Imp 23:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Your own points go against you, until we see some evidence he could of lived then he is dead, stop speculating again, this is over. What next we didn't see Kit Fisto turn into a ghost or be buried so he's alive? Stop speculating he's alive, its not speculating saying he's dead. Jedi Dude 23:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, we know that. But he was not "blasted to smitherines", he dissolved as result of his hunger, the same power that could have saved him.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 23:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Your own points go against you, until we see some evidence he could of lived then he is dead, stop speculating again, this is over. What next we didn't see Kit Fisto turn into a ghost or be buried so he's alive? Stop speculating he's alive, its not speculating saying he's dead. Jedi Dude 23:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * He also could have used his magical fairy powers to turn the Ravager into a giant pink fluffy bunny whenever he wanted. There's no evidence he didn't. You're missing the point: why should we believe he is alive when we have significant reason to believe otherwise? Havac 23:15, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Your sarcasm is getting on my nerves. However, I shall not become enraged, you obviously cannot comprehend the depth of Nihilus' powers. Tease and Taunt all you want, you are all acting like children. As for you specifically Jedi Dude, I have not once said he was alive, nor have I said he was dead. I have said we have know idea, and since it is fairly realistic that he could have came back, my point don't go against me. I merely wish for it to be stated that we don't know his true fate, hence the "" around death("death"). As for Havac, I am not saying anything about anyone else but Nihilus, as for reason to believe, his power is vast, so it is possible he survived, thus by saying he is dead is speculation, and so is saying he is alive, we just don't know, that is all I am saying.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 23:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * All evidence at this point says that he died at Telos. Although I haven't read anything about a death at Malachor either. -  Angel Blue  (Holonet) 01:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ugh. I'm not being sarcastic and I'm not acting like a child. I'm pointing out that your argument does not follow any accepted rules of logic and therefore makes as much sense as the equally flawed arguments I've been posting. I like to make comparisons; that's my style. Believe it or not, I'm capable of disagreeing with you without making it personal. And I can comprehend the depth of Nihilus's power, just like I can comprehend the fact that it is clearly established that Nihilus does not control his power -- his power controls him. Nihilus had one extremely overdeveloped talent, not sheer Sidious- or Anakin-level power. In any case, merely having power does not make one immortal, as Yoda told Luke. Your argument does not and can not hold up to scrutiny and therefore should not be included in the article as fact until evidence arrives to support it. It is fine in the BTS where it is, and there it should stay. The more detailed and totally POV-neutral description that you keep reverting for no good reason at all sums up the issue fine. I'm asking you to stop this silly edit war and leave the article alone until an admin determines what should be done. Havac 01:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 'nods' and yes numerous times youv'e made it obvious you belive him to be alive, when all facts say he's not. We saw him die, its not like Alema Ra with an off screen death we saw him die, disappear then blow up. So yes your points do come back at you, and i agree its nothing personal Jedi Dude 10:46, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I am going to stop arguing, as having it in the BTS section is good enough for me. It was pointless for me to start a long winded discussion for which there is no solid proof.(By the way, I was the one who added in the hunger-controls-him thing, so yes I already know that, which is one of the reasons he could have survived, have you seen X-Men: the Last Stand, Phoenix has no definitive control over her powers, and they act on their own and wrap her in a cocoon of telekinetic energy, "The mass of water that came on top of Jean should have abilterated her..." Well the darkside energy that came on top of Nihilus should have abliterated him, but his hunger consumed him and left his concious mind, so if he can inhabit a holocron, he could inhabit armor, just like he was doing at Malachor.) All I'm saying Jedi Dude is that he could be alive, not that I think that he is, I'm saying we don't know all of what Nihilus is capable of, so he could have survived. We just don't know. That is the full extent of my argument, but since it is in the BTS section(and not just a caption) I am content, and as far as I am concerned my part in this is over. Also Havac, the NPV edition is better(at least the revised version). I apologize for the Lenth of all this, and my stubborness.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Cislogo.png|20px]] 11:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Forgive me for interrupting, but I had my own interpretation of Krayt's remark. I have been thinking that the key for Nihilus to stay alive was his ability to consume the Force, with the armor containing the wound of the Force that he now was. Thus, Nihilus had gained immortality, but not without a heavy price, being forced to live basically as a Force vampire, unable to survive without consuming the Force. Just my thoughts. And sorry if this has already been suggested, it's just this whole topic was too long to look through every post. 207.200.116.196 01:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * maybe he wasn't wearing the armor he contained his conciouness in.74.129.45.167 06:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * What!!? What else could he be wearing? I don't think he has multiple robes/armour! He only had one. So, of course he was wearing the one he stored his consiousness in!-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 00:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

are you saying there is no way a dark lord has more than one suit of armor and he is a cautious person so maybe he knew not to wear it and since his armor he wore was destroyed there must be another. 74.129.45.167 01:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989


 * Dear Bob, I hate having to get involved with this... but as I always say, facts are facts. One optional action the Exile can take is to steal Nihilus's mask before he goes all zappy. If she does, she gets a Force point boost, so most players probably do it (I know I did). I don't think a mask would boost Force points unless it was somehow endowed with energy. And a mask is part of a suit of armor. And we all know how masks get passed around in the SW galaxy, so he needn't reveal himself to the Exile. (And now I'm off to shoot myself for giving ammo to the fanboys.) -- Darth Culator  (Talk)(TINC) 03:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ...not all that sure a mask is considered part of a suit of armour. .  .  .  .  03:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * A mask can be considered a piece of armor, whether it's a part of a suit or not. But if you prefer to discount it, I don't care. I'm just throwing it out there because it seems to have been overlooked. -- Darth Culator  (Talk)(TINC) 04:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that is probotly right i didn't think about the mask 74.129.45.167 12:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989

Quotes
I see there are more than alot of quotes on Nihilus' page, and there are still more, perhaps we should put a WikiQuote box on his page, and then post all those quotes that we know, it is probably alot.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core) 11:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC) WW

changes
I changed some of the article. The quotes are now more spaced out, particularly because I hated the two-quote thing at the top, and the 2nd one was more about his power (or lack thereof) than character. I also rearranged parts of "Traits", "Power", and "Biography" to make the article flow better. Having the piece on his power during the biography seems out of place. I think we can delete one of the quotes, because they're all from Kreia, and basically say the same thing; it still l doesn't look good the way I have it, so maybe you could give me your opinions on what to get rid of. Complaints too. Nihilus is my favorite Sith Lord despite his weakness, and I want to see him made into a good, if not featured article. Thanks!--Vladius Magnum 21:43, November 3, 2006

Darth Nihilus' Power
I'm not asking that this be put in the article or anything, but I wanted the opinion of some fellow star wars fans who know about Darth Nihilus enough to comment on my opinion. (This is the "Discussion" page, right?) It would seem to me like Nihilus, is the most "powerful" person to ever live. I understand what Kreia was saying about the whole "can you really call that power?" stuff, but think about it:


 * Can destroy whole planets by sucking away all force.
 * Can lift a whole fleet of star ships off of a planet into space; and keep them together when they should be damaged beyond repair (versus Yoda barely lifting a single x-wing fifty feet off the ground).
 * Can make slaves out of anyone just by speaking.
 * Can sense almost anything and everything in the entire universe, although he only pays attention to the things that serve his hunger.

This discussion is the best example of proof of my claims in case someone questions what i just put; but listening to the conversation really gives you a feel for how powerful Nihilus is anyway, so feel free to watch it. Please someone fill me in if there are other Sith who can do these feats.--Tysis 17:48, November 12, 2006]] One thing to your list should be as his force sensing. Visas marr said that there is little her master, didn't know and he knew the Exile even when his ship was in the outer rim is he can feel jedi from thousands of light years away I don't think any jedi has been that good exect Yoda in force sensing. And to your question about other sith with these feats the answer has to be no. As far as I know no other sith was so strong in the darkside that they become more presence than flesh.On alot of these forums I hear peole say he was weak because peple beat him in the game easily this is how I looked at it he was hungey for the "force" and he havn't feed in a atleast a while and he was drained from tring to feed on the exile and he was triple teamed and Visas marr broke there connetion and that weaked him even more so in my opion in the right concondtions Nihilus would be unbeatable. And you said that you don't want this added to the page I think thatOne cannot hold a power of that magnitude and not have a powers section 74.129.45.167 10:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989

I agree. Most people think he is the weakest one which is an ignorant opinion based on gameplay alone. One reason for the "easyness", would be you have two people in your party, versus being by yourself when playing against Kreia and Sion. And the only reason the Exile even beats Nihilus is because she recently lost her connection; she was really no match for Nihilus at all. The only reason you even fight him is because Nihilus probably was bored of standing around and decided to test his lightsaber skills before he sucked her dry. I think, considering he was more powerful in the force than any other person, he should have a "Power" section. Tysis 17:14, 14 November 2006
 * Ummm&hellip; no. He could not defeat the Exile because she was a wound in the Force. As such, he could not touch her and that is the reason she was able to defeat him. All of his power was derived from his ability to steal the life of others and when he was deprived of that ability, he proved to be quite weak.– 01:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Darth Nihilus past
is there any proof that he was Mandalorian prison or even in the mandalorian wars and when his sith training stared? 74.129.45.167 10:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * I think Kreia might have mentioned that he could have been a prisoner of war, which would implicate that he was a prisoner of the Mandalorians, but no there is not a shred of proof that he was their prisoner or when his "Sith-ing" started. Tysis 17:06, 14 November 2006