Talk:Dooku/Legends

Dooku
Shouldn't this article be under Dooku, without the title? --Imperialles 15:09, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes. Done. --SparqMan 00:40, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Page History

 * 17:19, Mar 13, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 17:18, Mar 13, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 17:10, Mar 1, 2005 Cbarbry m (fixed redirected link)
 * 19:54, Feb 26, 2005 Qrc m (→added link to new saber combat page)
 * 14:35, Feb 25, 2005 John-1107
 * 15:40, Feb 18, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 00:24, Feb 13, 2005 Benw m
 * 10:10, Jan 30, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 10:08, Jan 30, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 16:03, Jan 29, 2005 QuentinGeorge
 * 09:32, Jan 29, 2005 Tarquin m
 * 23:27, Jan 26, 2005 Night Gyr m (deleted extra blank line at the start)
 * 05:55, Jan 26, 2005 68.200.81.62
 * 21:40, Jan 4, 2005 67.171.180.209
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 * 21:39, Jan 4, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 21:38, Jan 4, 2005 67.171.180.209
 * 08:54, Dec 19, 2004 217.206.234.210 (removed an erroneous 'd')
 * 19:00, Dec 5, 2004 Timc (dab Galactic Empire)
 * 04:14, Oct 30, 2004 QuentinGeorge m
 * 09:04, Oct 29, 2004 PMelvilleAustin
 * 14:29, Oct 26, 2004 64.12.116.203 (spelling error)
 * 14:28, Oct 26, 2004 64.12.116.203 (Name edit)
 * 14:02, Oct 25, 2004 205.188.116.145 ('Yan' is not an Expanded Universe name; it is actually a fan-created name and falls under fanon. In addition, details of Count Dooku's involvement in Attack of the Clones have been added.)
 * 19:16, Oct 24, 2004 PMelvilleAustin
 * 03:51, Oct 3, 2004 Timrollpickering m
 * 03:12, Sep 19, 2004 Janna (fixing category link)
 * 15:43, Sep 6, 2004 Timon
 * 22:52, Sep 3, 2004 SimonMayer m
 * 11:21, Aug 30, 2004 Kevyn m (Fixed link to Ulic Qel-Droma)
 * 23:20, Aug 23, 2004 QuentinGeorge m
 * 20:00, Aug 9, 2004 Jesster79
 * 11:56, Jul 10, 2004 Redux m (Images.)
 * 08:42, Jul 7, 2004 Stevertigo (Removed Changing Category:Separatists (Real world))
 * 06:51, Jun 26, 2004 Oberiko m (Category)
 * 12:45, Jun 13, 2004 Drhaggis m (category sith -> star wars sith characters)
 * 21:53, Jun 12, 2004 66.17.102.82
 * 21:52, Jun 12, 2004 66.17.102.82
 * 16:25, Jun 10, 2004 67.171.166.178
 * 09:52, Dec 23, 2003 Korath m (typo)
 * 13:24, Nov 22, 2003 64.53.72.144
 * 18:23, Nov 3, 2003 Michael Hardy
 * 23:55, Oct 27, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 23:46, Oct 27, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 23:43, Oct 27, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 09:24, Oct 18, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 19:08, Oct 14, 2003 64.53.72.144
 * 22:07, Aug 29, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 18:49, Aug 27, 2003 64.53.72.144
 * 20:30, Aug 24, 2003 64.53.72.144
 * 20:30, Aug 24, 2003 64.53.72.144
 * 20:29, Aug 24, 2003 64.53.72.144
 * 22:49, Aug 9, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 22:49, Aug 9, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 22:49, Aug 9, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 22:48, Aug 9, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 22:46, Aug 9, 2003 Tedius Zanarukando
 * 20:25, Aug 4, 2003 12.203.10.240
 * 09:01, Dec 28, 2002 210.49.196.232 m
 * 11:52, Nov 12, 2002 Frecklefoot m (link)
 * 23:17, Aug 18, 2002 Tarquin
 * 21:51, Aug 18, 2002 Robert Merkel (not everybody liked CGI Yoda - NPOVing.)
 * 20:03, Aug 5, 2002 210.49.196.232 m
 * 19:19, Aug 5, 2002 210.49.196.232
 * 00:42, Jul 23, 2002 210.49.193.197
 * 00:42, Jul 23, 2002 12.49
 * 06:46, Jul 21, 2002 Ortolan88 m (links, spelling)
 * 04:50, Jul 21, 2002 Alex (Re-wrote, less breathless !!!!'s)
 * 04:42, Jul 21, 2002 Tarquin (context. still a few too many "!")
 * 04:35, Jul 21, 2002 14.45
 * 11:13, Jul 20, 2002 14.45

links
Just putting these here for access later while copyediting:
 * http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/countdooku/?id=eu
 * http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/countdooku/
 * http://www.theforce.net/swenc/entrydesc.asp?search=29851

Age
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous led me to believe he was born in 103 BBY, not 102. What is the source for 102? --SparqMan 15:20, 1 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Leland Chee. It's probably the same issue as Anakin, who was born halfway through a year. QuentinGeorge 21:15, 1 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Dooku's early inspiration?
I´ve heard that Count Dooku was inspired by a Senate politician featured in an early draft of SW. Is this true? if so, it should be added to the BtS section. :) VT-16 12:42, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC)

The Death of Tyranus
When Dooku died, Obi-Wan was knocked out. Palpatine told Anakin to kill Dooku, but Anakin said it's not the Jedi way, he must had learned that from Obi-Wan, he would tell Anakin to let him live and to capture him. So if Obi-Wan was still awake, would Dooku survive?

If so, Dooku is the one who knocked him out, does that mean he's responsible for his own death? Double D 19:21, 29 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * In a roundabout sort of way, yes. I agree that Anakin would probably not have killed Tyranus if Obi-Wan had been conscious. Hindsight is 20/20. Actually, he may have died anyway. A situation where he could be captured may never have arisen, and he may have been killed in the fight if that was the only way to subdue him. Also, he would have gone down easier if both Jedi had remained in the fight. – Aidje talk 20:43, 29 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Quote

 * Please stop putting that other quote at the beginning of the article. We only want *one* lead-in quote, just like our other articles. Look at the article itself. There are two quotes in the body even before we get to the disputed one. If you REALLY don't like that Jocasta Nu quote there, take it out completely. QuentinGeorge 20:25, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Additionally, please don't crop that picture. I chose the size of it for a reason and I'm starting to get annoyed by Starkeiller's habit of going and cropping all the pictures for no apparent purpose. Cutting off the rest of the lightning in the picture just removes the context and makes the picture look ugly, IMO. QuentinGeorge 20:25, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I always have a purpose. I replaced the image with one that had higher resotion, that's all. I want the Wiki to look nice and tidy. And I actually didn't crop it, I replaced it with the one from the Databank. --Master Starkeiller 20:44, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, sorry. I just wanted the pic to have all of the lightning in it, rather than cut off. Can we leave it there until I get a high-res still straight from the DVD? QuentinGeorge 05:46, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, I won't move it again. Please unlock it, as someone is putting in a stupid thing that he was resurrected and led a Dark Side army during the Galactic Civil War. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 22:19, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * No probs. I just wanted the lead-in quotes to be consistent. :) (When we first put them in, a few people got carried away, and Anakin Skywalker had four lead-in quotes at one stage. QuentinGeorge 05:46, 7 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I actually think the Nu quote should go up there. I realize that we can't have to many up there (the Jedi Exile had like seven at one point), but I think the Nu quote followed by the Obi-Wan quote helps emphasize the tragedy of Count Dooku. -- SFH 00:00, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I say no, mainly because it's a quote from a deleted scene that never was in the finished movie. QuentinGeorge 00:29, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't want this to come down to a vote (like on Palpatine), so let's just decided once and for all. I think it should go at the top before the Kenobi quote, but I don't want to start an Edit War. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 12:22, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Why should the quote be a problem? Why should it be discussed? It's just a quote, no problem, up or down, who cares? --Master Starkeiller 21:41, 8 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I uploaded that DVD pic and put it there. --Master Starkeiller 14:44, 9 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * As for that picture, Dooku's face is shaded, so you can't really see him, so I reverted it to the picture where you can see his face a lot better. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 14:46, 9 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Now it's not shaded. --Master Starkeiller 15:20, 9 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It looks a lot better now. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 18:42, 9 Oct 2005 (UTC)

His Name
In ANH, Obi-Wan didn't called Vader "Anakin", because that name no longer had any meaning to him. So why don't they call Dooku "Tyranus", Dooku is not a Jedi any more, doesn't that mean the name Dooku has no meaning to him. Double D 19:25, 14 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * It's the same reason Sidious still goes by Palpatine. He wishes to keep a public face of some sort rather than simply coming out and saying "Look, I'm a Sith." Times had changed by ANH. – Aidje talk 20:11, 14 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Plus it's unlikely any of the Jedi would actually know his Sith name. --MarcK [talk] 10:48, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Image
The current one, being horizontal, looks a little awkward on the main page and at Featured article/History. I would suggest we make it a bit more vertical. --MarcK [talk] 10:50, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Besides, most other articles had vertical images instead. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 13:09, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Is it okay now?--Master Starkeiller 15:04, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * What? You didn't do anything. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 15:05, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I cropped it. --Master Starkeiller 15:56, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it still looks the same to me. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:29, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Idiots...
Some idiot just changed Dooku's name in dozens of places to "Kolniek" or something like that. Let's get this idiot banned and the page fixed. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:26, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Picture
Would this be a nice pic. to add for the Early Life of Dooku?:Themelle444 14:06, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice. It might need to be a little smaller, possibly 250px, but we could always add it in. Admiral J. Nebulax 15:54, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * You can always make it smaller just adjust the "px" 81.243.245.3 18:04, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I know that. I was just saying when it is added to the article, it should be 250px. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:14, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Where is it from? --Master Starkeiller 20:41, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * It's definitely from a comic. ;) Admiral J. Nebulax 20:43, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Haha, that's a start! I placed it in the article. Is it fine? --Master Starkeiller 20:50, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:50, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually its form Most Precious Weapon (a Hasbro/Dark-Horse mini-comic)--Themelle444 22:19, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Admiral J. Nebulax 22:45, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Afiliation
Should we have it like: "Jedi, Galactic Republic, Confederacy of Independent Systems, as Darth Tyranus: Sith"? Admiral J. Nebulax 12:59, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Master?
I agree with the anon. Unless Dooku was a Jedi Master at 25 or so, he's a Knight in that picture. Yrfeloran 21:03, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, the anon was the one who put in "Master". Admiral J. Nebulax 21:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Apologies, clearly should not edit when sleep-deprived. Yrfeloran 21:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it. Admiral J. Nebulax 22:36, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Main photo
Most characters that appeared on the films have promotional photos in the infobox. Does anybody have a good quality promotional of Dooku for the infobox?--Gonzalo84 01:18, 5 March 2006 (UTC) --Redemption 22:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can find one. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 01:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That looks pretty good. Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber
Thing is, Tyvokka -clearly- predates on the curved thing, and you can actually see his curved blade in the Young Dooku image, so it's not like Dooku was unaware his was like that. Yrfeloran 05:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Err... we dont know much about the date of birth of Tyvokka's curved hilt, and Dooku occassionaly switch to standard blade, so Dooku may already had his own curved hilt when taking that photo with Tyvokka. Oh well, I guess I would revert it back to your edit in a minute. But maybe we should stated that the main source of Dooku's design was from Holocron. Since curved hilt is neither Tyvokka nor Dooku's invention - i believe they both learn it from Holocrons. Darth Kevinmhk 05:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Put back with a little rewriting. Please check it out Yrfeloran, see if it satisfies your POV. Darth Kevinmhk 05:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I rephrased slightly due to tense, but I think I kept what you were trying to say. Yrfeloran 05:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks great. Darth Kevinmhk 06:26, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Chosen One paragraph

 * May someone, say QuentinGeorge, stated the source of that Chosen One view of Dooku? Thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 05:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've re-added this section, since it's from a canonical source (Revised Star Wars Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook) and gives us a good insight into at least certain aspects of his personality. Whether he still holds this view as of ROTS is debatable, but not a reason to totally excise the section. QuentinGeorge 05:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Fine to me, and i added the Rulebook into Sources section. Darth Kevinmhk 05:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * One of my sources was not actually Dooku PoV on double-checking, which, er, seriously weakens my case, but I nonetheless submit that this is one of the many inconsistancies in Dooku's characterization and should perhaps be stated less strongly than it is, particularly as Dooku is stated to have little faith in (that part of?) the prophecy from the time he leaves the order to LoE. The RCR take on the character(I've glanced over, don't have it on hand) is fairly different from most of the other takes, but to be fair, most of the other takes are also somewhat inconsistant among themselves. :) Yrfeloran 05:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's that incosistent - his lack of faith in said prophecy might be linked to the fact that he believes the Council has decided upon the wrong "Chosen One". In any case, it's far less of a contradictory characterisation than say... Yoda: Dark Rendevouz and LOE/ROTS. QuentinGeorge 05:56, 30 March 2006 (UTC)QuentinGeorge 05:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Meh....Y:DR can -sort of- work with LoE, and LoE is more than a little off from ROTS(which is off from all prior sources, including the AOTC novelization), while Star Wars: Republic does their own thing, and the video games have him randomly break into the Jedi Temple and cackle about erasing the archives :P. Dooku characterization is such a mess, but still, Dooku using "what little faith he had" in the prophecy to explain why he didn't think he could kill Sidious in LoE is certainly very odd if he thinks himself the Chosen One destined to destroy the Sith. Yrfeloran 06:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said, it's quite possible he's changed his mind by the time of LOE (especially after seeing Anakin's exploits in the Clone Wars). QuentinGeorge 06:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Although Dooku is quite arrogant, he was smart enough to understand that Sidious was indeed far more powerful than him, as witnessed by the sense of "blackhole of the Force" onboard the Invisible Hand (ROTS Novel), he did not attempt to destroy Sidious because he knew he couldn't. He did not engage Sidious to a duel of death during their first meeting because he was already corrupted and twisted. At any rate, whether he believe the identity of Jedi Prophecy's Chosen One is himself or Anakin is not that important, because he believed this: He believe he could change the Jedi, the galactic government, and the citizen of the galaxy, into the twisted ideal of his, all by himself with his master. Dooku did consider he and his master as true saviors, from a certain PoV. Darth Kevinmhk 06:33, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well said. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Dooku's power
Ok I'm confused, was he second yoda or third to yoda? As I see it, before Anakin came into the order The most powerful jedi were Yoda, Count Dooku, Jorus C'Boath, and Mace Windu
 * At his prime, he was probably very powerful. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:20, 6 April 2006 (PDT)
 * The Jedi didn't make a habit of comparing themselves, so the point is moot. QuentinGeorge 20:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I am getting very tired of seeing these questions pop up all the time. It's so irrelevant. Natural talent, training, personality, etc. all effect an individual. Who are we to say who is more powerful than? --DannyBoy7783 00:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, unless a source specifically says otherwise. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:51, 6 April 2006 (PDT)
 * Well, right. I mean, if it is sourced - fine. But these "who is more powerful than who" discussions that keep cropping up are totally irrelevant. --DannyBoy7783 21:14, 6 April 2006 (PDT)
 * Meaningless or not, I will state some canonical hints here, judge them in your own mind: Dooku and Yoda was said to be the only 2 in the Jedi Order who defeated Mace in a duel (Databank); Yoda claimed that on neutral ground, Mace is perhaps the only one in the Order who can stand against Dooku (Yoda didnt name himself!) (Yoda: Dark Rendezvous); George Lucas claimed that Yoda, Mace and a healthy Anakin/Vader were the only person who can stand against Palpatine (The Making of ROTS); Mace & Dooku engaged briefly in Obsession, it was a standoff and Dooku ordered the MagnaGuards to interrupt and drag Mace away; for how & why Anakin defeated Dooku, check Darth Vader's lightsaber training section (base on canonical source); even on Vjun, a dark side world, Yoda was still able to gain the upperhand in his rematch against Dooku (Yoda: Dark Rendezvous). Hope you enjoy this. Darth Kevinmhk 23:10, 6 April 2006 (PDT)
 * "But these "who is more powerful than who" discussions that keep cropping up are totally irrelevant". I agree. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really if you understood why I asked, what it could mean in helping to keep NPOV in order, and the overall intent behind the question. Because one does not understand the relevance or the point of a question, does not mean it is irrelevant, and to call it so is to remain ignorant. There is a purpose behind it.
 * And what purpose would that be? Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:52, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Please remember to sign your post before accusing others. And in my opinion, determining who is more powerful than who can more or less improve the tone and npov, but we all know that "power" is not the sole factor to determine winner and loser. Dooku said enough in LoE: The unforseen and the unexpected can determine the outcome of a fight as much as power. Apart from power, health, mental & physical condition, environment & location, age, mood, emotion, restriant, equipment, time, species, experience, objectives... I can make the list even longer, and every single one of them do play an important role to determine outcome of a fight. So my point is: power isn't everything. Who is, in theory, more powerful than who doesn't mean he would simply win, all the factor listed above together would determine the outcome, not just power. Darth Kevinmhk 03:03, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * True. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:51, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe that before Anakin the order would have been Yoda, Dooku, Mace Windu, and Jorus C'boath. DarthMalus 17:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Soul
So what happen to Dooku's soul? Did it go to the Light Side of the Force (Heave) or the Dark Side of the Force (Hell)? If he felt sorry about his bad deeds, ce could have gone to the Light Side (That what the Roman Catholics believe, that the biggest sinner can go to heave if he feels sorry about his sins. Anakin went to the Light Side because he felt sorry. Maybe Dooku did too. Double D 19:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)