Talk:Darth Caedus/Archive1

Copyvio
What the hell? Who put this copyvio on? -- SFH 15:00, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Potentially Stronger than Luke?
Why was the section "Stronger than Luke?" taken off. There is enough evidence from betrayal and other character's quotes to at least validate the discussion as to how powerful Jacen will ultimately become.
 * It's unecessary speculation (and not very encyclopedic in terms of writing). Wookieepedia is a bit more flexibile on rules in terms of speculation than Wikipedia, since it is a wikia; however, it is still an encyclopedia.  The section you've wrote simply states that because of Jacen's character development (from being someone who refused to use the Force, to someone is deeply embodied in the Unifying Force and does not hesistate to use it for his own means), he is potentially stronger than Luke.  That conclusion can be reached by the reader when reading the facts of Jacen's biography, hence "Let the facts speak for themselves" &mdash; since an enyclopedia is mainly an archive of facts, as opposed to containing what can be or will be. An example of speculation that is acceptable is on Mara's parentage on her article.  Why?  Because that speculation cannot be reached just by reading the facts &mdash; so it is alright to state it in the 'Behind the scenes' sections, where it is approriate.  The speculation about Jacen being stronger than Luke because of his character arc can be read through the Biography, since that section is meant to explain and summarize his storyline and his development as a character. &mdash;Mir  len  11:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * He already admitted he wasn't stronger than Luke, meerly taught differently. DarthMalus 04:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I never thought he was stronger than him now, I just wanted to discuss how 'Betrayal' leaves plenty of room for the discussion as to Jacen's full potential. If he does somehow become a full fledged Sith, He quite possibly could be the strongest Sith Lord ever. TheUnknownKnight
 * Well some have said Luke's son, Ben, is pretty strong himself, and may be the strongest Jedi after Luke. Maybe Jacen is stronger than Ben? Jedi Striker 16:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know how reliable Jacen's visions are, but in Betrayal he has a vision of himself killing Luke in the future. So maybe he will become more powerful, or maybe that's just an altnerate timeline. *Shrug*. Greedo 21:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As mentioned above, this kind of thing isn't encyclopedic. It's impossible to define power in these terms; what makes one character more powerful than another? It's all down to context. For example, Dooku defeated Obi-Wan, so Dooku should be more powerful than him, but since Anakin defeated Dooku, and Obi-Wan defeated Anakin, does that mean Obi-Wan is more powerful than Dooku? You can never properly define it. If Jacen does ever kill Luke, it doesn't automatically mean Jacen is more powerful - Luke could have had an "off" day ;) - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 18:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * While it may be true that Obi Wan defeated Anakin, he was admittedly weaker than Anakin, and only won because he was in control, and Anakin was not. I theink it is possible to gague a character's overall fighting power, and that this section should be included, as even if it is speculative, it is highly relavent information.
 * I don't have a clue about this era&mdash;I've never read a novel after the events of Darksaber&mdash;but you guys know that Luke cannot be killed off because Lucas forbade it. Any story that features his death would automatically be N-canon. I would be careful with such statements as "he was stronger than Luke" anyway because of what the anon editor said above concerning Obi-Wan and Anakin. - TopAce 23:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think he would go so far as to forbid any instance of luke's death. geez they have his force GHOST in Star Wars:Legacy (not that I consider that garbage canon.)Darth Balls 03:07, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Legacy Photo
How sure are we that this is Jacen? It could just as easily be Ben Skywalker couldn't it?

Yeah, Ben Skywalker is about 14 by then and he could have changed a lot in appearance. Jacen playing a major role in the book does not always mean he is on the front cover. MyNz 16:37, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) Ben is too young to be the one on the cover. I'd go for Jacen.
 * It's been confirmed that its Jacen on the cover. PS Ben has red hair, not brown. QuentinGeorge 05:13, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * That is weird, he looks younger than 30, in fact he looks younger than his other pictures. And it's not like Ben's hair is vibrant red like Mara's. The picture is in deep shadow. But then again it sure looks more brown than red.
 * Hair colour can change over someones life. My brother's started as blonde but is now brown. Through I haven't heard of red to brown, who says it's not possible? Jacen Solo 22:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * well anyway as interesting as all this is, It is Jacen Solo. So end of? Jedi Dude

Not telling his family
So what exactly is Jacen's reason for not telling his parent's that he is Allana's father? -- SFH 19:05, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I think he would be too ashamed to tell his parents since he didn't marry Tenel Ka legally. Sex outside marriage is a considered a taboo among most Human cultures and probably those in Star Wars. His parents would get upset just as people in the real world would for the same reason. That was the same with Anakin Skywalker when he secretly married Padme without permission from his Jedi superiors.

This would be a black mark on his biography. I notice that his sister and their classmates have all been up to no good recently such as the Dark Nest Crisis and the Swarm War. This shows that nobody is perfect. User:MyNz 19:23 13 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * You're probably right on the upset part at least as far as Leia is concerned. Han probably would have shrugged it off. -- SFH 19:33, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if that's it. Considering the variety of races and sexual practices in the galaxy I would think that extra-marital sex wouldn't be a huge deal.  I would bet it's more to protect his son from potential political rivals as well as outside powers wishing to manipulate him.  Consider the difficult childhood that Jacen/Jaina/Anakin had, seems like once a year some power mad tyrant with a super weapon would decide to either kidnap or try to kill them because of their relations.  So long as Allana is known as just the Hapan heir there would be less threat from an outside source. --Anon80
 * I'm not asking why Jacen and Tenel didn't tell the public at large. What I don't understand is why they didn't tell Han and Leia. Hapan nobles would kill Allana first chance they got, but I would think Han and Leia would go to great lengths to protect their granddaughter. Trusting a member of the Hapan Royal family is a calculated risk; trusting Han and Leia shouldn't even have to be a question. -- SFH 20:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Han and Leia don't have the mental protection that Jacen and Tenel do. WHat I don't understand is why didn't he tell Master Luke about it. Luke would have understood the whole Ben mind blocking thing then. Jacen Solo 22:27, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Mental protection? I don't understand that. And Luke might intellectually understand why Jacen erased Ben's memory of the indicent, but would he accept it, or blind Jacen off from the Force? -- SFH 22:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Luke blind Jacen from the force? Doubtful. Jacen, especially in the last few books, has grown in power. He can do things that even Luke can't. I don't really think that Jacen would fear a reprisal from Luke, seeing as the argument could be made that Jacen is, or could become, the most powerful Jedi in the Order.--Reever19 24, April 2006
 * Mental Protection or resistance, whatever you call it :P And yes, I'm possitive Luke would accept it. His character is one of forgiveness and understanding. Jacen Solo 22:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Luke is also the stronger of the two as well. Since Anakin Solo is dead, Ben Skywalker is the only one with the potential to surpass Luke, and I have no doubt that he will.
 * Where do people come up with statements like this? Why is Ben the only one that can surpass Luke? What makes him so special? In theory, Jaina or Jacen could be stronger than Ben seeing that they are a descendant of Anakin Skywalker as well. I think Jacen is more of a threat to surpass Luke than anyone right now.
 * I think this is distracting away from the fact that we still haven't added that Jacen is a STUD. One night with Tenel Ka and he knocked her up! good man! Darth Balls

"Jasen"
''Timothy Zahn originally intended "Jacen" to be "Jasen", but his editor at Bantam, Betsy Mitchell, suggested changing the "s" to a "c" to make it less 1980s-like. '' Fool editor! The 80's are GOOD! It should have stayed Jasen! :) Thanos6 07:10, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Jacen's Battle Meld
How come Jacen's Battle Meld ability is not mentioned in this article. The first mentioning of this force power I found was within the New Jedi Order book Star by Star. I think the Battle Meld is akin to the Battle Medition but there seems to be some differces. For one, Battle Medition increases the moral of friendly allies and decreases the moral of enemy troops. Battle Meld melds the minds of your allies so that you know their thoughts and feelings, so that you can better comprehend your allies actions and the battle sitations. LordRevan (UTC)

Hello anyone??? Am I that boring? LordRevan 01:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's because it's not 'Jacen's Battle Meld,' it's more of a joint meld between the Jedi. Killik Twilight 19:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, what did the book say about it. I remember in the book, Star by Star (correct me if I'm wrong), it called it a Battle meld. LordRevan 00:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello, anyone??? LordRevan

Hi

~Churro Kradd

I'm pretty sure that it's not mentioned is because anyone can do it. Jacen's just the most efficient at doing it. Darth Balls

Speculation
Now that it is confirmed he is a Sith, could we be seeing a new Darth Traya? I infer this on the title of the new novel and the fact that Kreia once said there must always be a Darth Traya. Could be wrong, but it sounds feasible to me. --Quidon88 21:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I see him more being a new Revan actually. It would had to the parallel created with Canderous posibly spotting a Yuzhan Vong ship.--Petiflo 17:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Kreia was speaking figuratively, I think. It doesn't mean that the Sith in question should be necessarily called Darth Traya. And I would HATE HATE HAET HATE HAT to see any parallels between *cough cough* this and KOTOR. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * From a personal point of view I've felt quite a few, it just seems to have a KOTOR "feel" to it. It does seem possible though I must admit I'd much prefer them to think up an original name, Darth Traya is a so-so name in my view, its neither bad nor particularly good. Jacen deserves something more memorable.

Jacen does not deserve Darth Traya. TRAYA IS A WOMAN'S NAME! Also, how can Jacen have an apprentice if he has not had any master to teach him specifically about the dark side, and about the order of the sith?--70.124.132.176 15:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * becasuse, as Vegere said, Palps and Vader wern't true sith, they were greedy, jand Luke didn't recieve much training to be the Jedi he is, and the path of a Sith and the dark side is easier to follow. And Jacen recieved training from vergere how ever small it was. Jedi Dude
 * I thought it was Lumiya who said that. But anyway, how can we know this is true? We can even doubt now what Vergere said about "There is no Dark Side", maybe there is one and she knew it perfectly but lied to Jacen in order to draw him easily... --Petiflo 16:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No Lumiya and Vergere knew Vader and Sidious were Sith, but to not aquate themselves to cult members as Vader and Sidious, both well known for their violent and oppressive rule, something Jacen was against, and instead wanted to cast the Sith in a more friendly view in effort to appeal to Jacen's misguided view of the force. It's still the same Sith Philosophy, only sugar coated by Vergere and Lumiya in order to seduce Jacen Solo. Odds are Jacen won't remain a Sith, he has too much of a conscience, though it is a possibility. But seeing as Luke is still on the no kill list, and considering he's far more powerful than Jacen, though Jacen has a few cool tricks that Luke may or may not have, but all in all he has too many people who love him. His heart isn't as hard as it should be. It will be interesting to see how it plays out though DarthMalus 14:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * do you think that? i belive that Vergere genrually believed that Vader and Palps were not the way Sith should be, and that her view that Sith aren't all power hungry is possible, i mean how mnay sith lors do we really knoe about? Not many, not many at all. Im hoping Jacen does bring something new to the Sith order, as its becoming a bit predictable if hes simply going to go dark then go light by the end of the series. Jedi Dude
 * I think power corrupts, even a Sith. All of the Sith during the Bane era (for lack of a better term) did not have armies at their command and rule over a galaxy.  Therefore, they kept their greed in check and moved in the shadows.  Once the Sith came out of the shadows and ruled the galaxy, the old power hungry and greedy Sith stereotype came back into control.Stinkywookie 14:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you think that Jacen will suffer the same fate as Anakin Skywalker or will be redeemed before any damage is done? JainaSolo32

He already did some damage, by killing Nelani. - Bub
 * he did that for the greater good, by killng her he saved Luke. Jacen has his reasons but will they be justified in the long run thats the question? Jedi Dude

No, he killed Nelani to save Lumiya. It said in the article, that when Nelani tried to arrest Lumiya, Jacen killed her. Either that or I have my facts mixed up. - Bub

Oh, now I understand. I haven't read Betrayal yet. - Bub


 * It's doubtful that Jacen will be a repeat of Anakin. He will more likely be redeemed before he completely gives himself to the darkside. Technically he's not truly a Sith as he is merely a dark acolyte and has received no training as a Sith. The Sith are representative of all things that are flaws in our nature, they are greedy, selfish, manipulative, murderers, and self destructive. This is the way of the Sith, it is reflective of real life. The excuse that they are doing this for a greater good is just that, an excuse. They need some sort of justification for their guilt to be vanquished. Eventually they finally admit to themselves that they are doing wrong but it no longer matters to them. The power to take one's life and striking fear into those around them is a high they can never have enough of. Complete and total self exhaltation. Evil is never justifiable. Jacen was mistaken and was wrong with what he did. Vergere was also trying to rationalize her dark teachings by saying that good and evil don't exist, thus eliminating the guilt. She was not a true Sith. Merely an acolyte.

I don't beleive that she stated that there was no good or evil. Just that there was no darkside of the force. She believed that the darkside existed internally.


 * Jacen has changed alot during the course of the series. In the Young Jedi Knights books Jacen is indecisive and has the tendency to tell wack jokes and has an affinity for life. In The NJO books his attitude starts to change when he meets Vergere and we see that he loses some of himself during the Yuuzhan Vong War such as adapting a whole new outlook of the force. Now in Betrayal Jacen has become distant, cold and loses his love of life to the point that it creeps Ben and Nelani out, and probably scares them. He also has the tendency to believe what he sees and will do almost anything to stop it even if it means he has to sacrifice the ones he loves. Jacen is just beginning to discover his potential but is going down the wrong path. JainaSolo32

Main image
Does anyone else think the current main image is too dark and obscure? The last default image was much clearer and made Jacen's features easier to discern. I understand that this is the most recent image of Jacen, but it could be included in the Legacy of the Force section... - Breathesgelatin 23:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. There's also the fact that the Betrayal picture is just plain crap... (How does Jacen look in his thirties there? Madness) but... it *is* the most recent image... alas... (195.92.168.176 12:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC))
 * Since when is there a policy of only using the most recent image though? - Breathesgelatin 18:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * i reckon we need to go back to the last photo, many people acroos message boards do not like this photo i have found, and yes the last photo was clearer. Jedi Dude
 * Yeah, I'm just thinking - neither Leia nor Luke have the "most recent" pictures up.... so why should Jacen?(Ulicus 23:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC))
 * I changed the image a bit earlier today, it's a slightly brighter slightly bigger version, which I found in the artist's web page. I think it fits well into him, his most recent picture is a good one, in difference to Luke and Leia. He does look thirty though, different people age different ways. As far as I've seen many 30 year olds who look like that or younger. --Sauron18 16:56 15 June 2006
 * I just cropped off the extra black space on the left side of the image, not because that space was unnecessary, but it stretched the infobox by a wide margin. The image may not be as good as image of Jacen on the Japanese cover of Force Heretic III: Reunion, but I think it fits the Sith infobox we have for him &mdash; the picture is darker (literally and metaphorically), and it fits Jacen's recent portrayal. (And it's true that Luke nor Leia have their most recent image, but then, they were always especial exceptions from the start, weren't they?  After all, they are the untouchable characters, along with Han, of course, that the Star Wars book buisiness aren't allowed to kill, as so commanded by George Lucas). &mdash;Mir  len  23:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Vector Prime kinda blows that theory to hell, right? -- SFH 23:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup. On a random note, I think we need a new [recent] lead quote change as well. &mdash;Mir  len  23:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, how about the one of the philosophy of evil that Luke tells Ben. It's what happened to Jacen after all and it's very ominous. I'll look it up. --Sauron18 19:18, 15 June 2006
 * Alright I put it ;). --Sauron18 19:27, 15 June 2006
 * That would be a good lead in quote to the Legacy section, but the original quote more tells of Jacen's overall character. That is what lead in quotes are supposed to do, not just state the most recent facts. And I'm a little surprised that an anon claims to know so much about Wookieepedia policy that register users haven't heard of. -- SFH 01:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I still thought the other quote described Jacen's overall character a little more, as did the picture. With these characters it's different, since we have picture of them since being babies, therefore the picture we would have to put is at least the first adult picture. It seemed that because of the mood of things his "Sith" picture was better. But whatever, doesn't really matter --Sauron18 12:36, 16 June 2006
 * I have to agree with SFH about that quote belongs more to the Legacy section, but I think a quote from the Legacy of the Force series that explains his overall, current character might suit better. But I do like the darker, ominous picture better.  And although I think I did hear QuentinGeorge saying to use an adult picture of a character and I interpretated the words as to mean that the recent image was the best to be used in an article here, but QuentinGeorge didn't exactly say that, so I'm not sure.  I mean the current quote we have right now explains the overall character of the OLD Jacen in NJO, not the current Jacen now.

The Jacen Solo we know and love is dead &mdash; even Jacen admits that in Betrayal (somewhere I think, I don't have the book right now). It went somewhere along the lines that both Jacen and Anakin Solo were dead and that strangely, he didn't mourn either of the deaths anymore...Can anyone post that quote up if they find it there? (So it all comes down to whether or not we use the most recent portrayal of Jacen Solo &mdash; his image and his quote).


 * Anyway, I think I'm going to go ask one of our esteemed admins about the recent image policy (I asked one of admins here if any of you want to know), or if there was even such a one. It seems logical to assume the recent image, but it seems like it's not really well-known among users here so... &mdash;Mir  len  22:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The general image policy is to go for a) A movie picture of their latest (living) movie appearance, if they are a film character. (ie, Ep IV Obi-Wan, Ep VI Yoda, etc) or b) For EU only characters, go for an adult picture, preferably a good shot of at least their head and shoulders. Whether it's them at age 28 or age 30 I don't think really matters.
 * Of course, these are all guidelines - if one picture is much higher quality than the others, or just generally far better in appearance, use that. QuentinGeorge 06:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * With this article in particular, I think the current image is fine, since it's a) Much higher quality than the LOTF one and B) His appearance hasn't changed much since the Unifying Force. QuentinGeorge 06:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And until the MAJOR SPOILER tag goes, we should avoid a LOTF lead-in quote purely because of the spoiler issues. QuentinGeorge 07:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Thanks QuentinGeorge. So the issue is settled then. :) &mdash;Mir  len  19:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warning for "Possible parallels?"
The "Possible parallels" section includes a sentence about Spoiler warning: Plot or ending details for follow. Jacen turning to the dark side. Spoilers end here. Do we need to put a spoiler tag on that section because of that line, or do we not need to, because of the major spoiler tag at the top of the page? Ben of Oz 15:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, no, because it just merely stating that because of the parallels between his grandfather and himself, there is a possibility that Jacen would go to the dark side like his grandfather afore him. &mdash;Mir  len  15:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * K. Just making sure. Ben of Oz 18:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Clarity Question
" Even before he and his sister were born, their uncle Luke Skywalker could sense their strong presence in the Force and the two shared an inseparable mental bond."

Does this refer to a mental bond between Jacen and his sister, or between Jacen and Luke?
 * Between the twins actually, which makes me wonder if this statement is relevant here...Petiflo 16:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Bloodlines
From ]

Jacen, now a complete master of the Force, has his own plans to bring order to the galaxy. Guided by his Sith mentor, Lumiya, and with Luke’s young son Ben at his side, Jacen embarks on the same path that his grandfather Darth Vader once did. And while Han and Leia watch their only son become a stranger, a secret assassin entangles the couple with a dreaded name from Han’s past: Boba Fett. In the new galactic order, friends and enemies are no longer what they seem...
 * From this Ben will most likely become Jacen's apprentice and not Tahiri. Jaina Solo 23:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

New Essential Guide picture marked as Dark Nest era
and I'm 95% sure it's from the New Jedi Order era. That's a young Jacen, and I remember seeing the image in one of the NEG books at Barnes and Noble; it was printed before the Dark Nest trilogy was, and that image can't be that late. 11thGuard 18:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus Jacen is described in the The Joiner King as being a grown-up man with almost a beard. --Petiflo 19:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed &mdash; that is a young teenage Jacen. &mdash;<font color="DB7093">Mir <font color="DB7093"> len  22:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well its the same with Jaina, and no he does not have a beard in joiner knig, thats after he has escaped the Vong so its still possible to be a dark nest pic Jedi Dude 22:59, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "[Ben] turned to Jacen, who had matured into a handsome man with a thick beard and brooding brown eyes".... That page 166 from The Joiner King --Petiflo 13:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the artist's intent was to capture Jacen some time between Vector Prime and his capture in Star by Star, considering that the entry for Jacen in the New Essential Guide to Characters only reaches the midpoint of the NJO and does not touch the Dark Nest trilogy with a ten-foot pole. Additionally, I get the impression that the picture that is purported to show Jacen during the First Corellian Insurrection is one of YJK-era Jacen.  Muuuuuurgh 09:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh well i take my comment back then, sorry. Jedi Dude 14:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Jacens Force Journey
Sorry, I didnt know what else to title this section. Is there any sources for what he actually did, i.e. novels or comics or the such, where it actually talks about what he went through and the things he did and learned? -- Fuzzyjedi 8-30-06

jacen's future
do you think jacen will kill luke? Andrewb1 01:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC) no he wont. he will never be strong enough.
 * This is not really the right place to discuss that kind of matters. --Tinwe 12:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I actually beg to differ. The books are starting to explicitly state the case that Jacen is rivaling Luke in power and will soon surpass him. Even Mara is becoming aware of this in the second half of "Tempest". I'm looking for the legacy series to really shake some things up seeing that the Original Characters are getting too old to have any realistic impact.

New lead in quote
This has been discussed to some extent in the Main image section, but I thought I'd bring it up again, since the current lead in quote doesn't seem to fit so well anymore. There's one in Destiny's Way I really like – it foreshadows Jacen's future choices but doesn't reveal too much to be an actual spoiler: "&hellip; he has always questioned his purpose as a Jedi, and even the meaning of the Force. I can't image him not questioning any fate that lay in store for him. And a special destiny is not always something joyous, or easy to bear. My father had a special destiny, and see where it took him."

- Luke Skywalker

That last sentence can be omitted of course, if you think it reveals too much. Thoughts? Other possible quotes? --Tinwe 12:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the quote is good.  Jaina Solo  Goddess Stuff [[Image:Jaina_19_(2).jpg |20px]] 12:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been wanting to change the lead quote for Jacen, but the plan was refused on the account that it focused and revealed too much as Jacen's path to the Dark Side. I don't think the last sentence needs to be omitted, as it is a general knowledge of Jacen's destiny will turn out to be &mdash; and it's a good quote because it summarizes his biography.  In short, it's perfect as a lead quote. &mdash;<font color="DB7093">Mir <font color="DB7093"> len  01:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you like it :) I'm going to give this a couple more days, and if no one has objected, say, by Thursday, I'll add the quote to the article. --Tinwe 14:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. --Tinwe 11:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks great. :)</tt> --<font color="DB7093">Mir <font color="DB7093"> len  22:00, 7 September 2006 (UTC)