Talk:Meetra Surik

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Name?
What is the explination as to why we don't know the exile's name. I know why, but what is the canon reason
 * Everyone else but the audience knows the name. And obviously we can't ask the "actors" what the name is. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is one. And new conversations go at the bottom. Please sign your posts using four tildes ~ . Chack Jadson 21:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Note
The lengthy discussions previously here have been put in the third archive. If you want to start a discussion, you may want to check one of the previous archives to see if your points have been raised already. If you want to start up a discussion complaining about the Exile being female: please do so on another site, unless you can find a genuinely new point and can do so without insulting other editors or the Lucasfilm people responsible for setting the female lightside Exile as canon. Thanks. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 15:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber of the Jedi Exile
Although the player has the choice on what type and color the lightsaber is that Atris takes out during their conversation at the Telos Academy, if the player declines to talk about the lightsaber after Peragus, the default lightsaber is a single-bladed cyan-colored lightsaber.

I would like to know where this piece of information came from, as well as any instances in the game it is verified. In my experience, if the lightsaber discussion with Atton is dismissed, the default lightsaber of the Exile is single-bladed, and the colour depends on her class (yellow for the Sentinal class, blue for Guardian and green for Consular). This is shown during the Trial of the Exile cinematic, where she proceeds to stab her ignited lightsaber into the center stone.

Where did the idea of a cyan lightsaber come from? --Chaota 20:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That's bizzare Chaota; I've played that scene a dozen times myself, and if the question of the Exile's lightsaber was dismissed it is always set to single blade Cyan. And I've done that scene with all three starting classes. I'm not certain why it would be different for you. Master Kavar 21:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The Exile was a general in the Mandalorian Wars. She probably started out with a standard color, but changed it to something that suited her better. It should also be noted that cyan is halfway between green and blue, possibly implying a balance between Jedi Consular and Jedi Guardian.--Atlas503 05:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gaaahh! Not gameplay mechanics again. - Sikon 06:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that might be looking a little too deep into it Atlas, it's just a random color after all. It wouldn't really matter what the color was...except maybe red, that would probably raise a few eyebrows. Master Kavar 07:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well a few Jedi had red lightsabers, without falling, or haven fallen to the darkside. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 12:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So I've heard, but those Jedi were all from the New Jedi Order of Luke Skywalker, correct? Master Kavar 23:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, Adi Galia is an example 81.76.30.151 23:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Adi Galia is, like, THE example. It may not have been law that red = evil, but it's the general impression that everyone gets. "Wait, you didn't go red, did you? [...] Great. After we're all dead, you and that Sith can have a party."

- Atton Rand (paraphrased)


 * NOTE: For whatever reason the Jedi Exile has a cyan lightsaber, cyan is in the middle of blue and green on the color spectrum. This could be an indicator that the Exile was a balance between a Jedi Consular and a Jedi Guardian, or it could be a complete and total coincidence.--Atlas503 07:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting take, but the game already presents a balance between Consular and Guardian: the Jedi Sentinel. -BaronGrackle 14:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if you hadn't noticed, the Sentinel - by the game stats - is not a thorough balance. It is the complete opposite of the Consular, and then there's the Guardian out there all by itself. If Atlas's hypothesis is accurate, then it may go to say that the Exile might have been a Sentinel, but sought a more balanced existence between the two extreme classes; other than that which we see in the game mechanics. But then again, other than the default cyan, all of this is just speculation.--Master Dakari 14:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Problem: The main image of this article is saying that the Exile's lightsaber was cyan while she fought Traya at the game's end. 70.106.243.99 20:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * thats a problem true. someone who has the means, should change the color of the main image to whatever grey scale the image for jaden korr is set too.
 * What about the picture of her trial? It shows her with a green saber. Someone should change this. By the way, Atlas, A'Sharad Hett had not one, but TWO red lightsabers, and he stayed with the light. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 23:13, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The green saber shown in the article is just one person's interpretation. -Jedi Striker 12:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If you don't tell atton what your lightsabre was like, it's randomly generated, I believe.--Logan Felipe 02:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Is the Crew really dead?
I just have one question to ask: In the Light Side ending of KotOR II, have your companions (Besides T3-M4) really died? Because I'm not sure. Any helpful comments would be appreciated, as I'm completely confused. Exile Catherine 02:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Exile_Catherine
 * As I recall, at least some of them are supposed to have gone on to help rebuild the Jedi Order. That's what Kreia's prophecies say, anyway. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 02:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought too, but a lot of articles say that only T3 and the Exile survived, so that confused me. Exile Catherine 02:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Exile_Catherine
 * Which ones? -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 02:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Language proficiency
Whatever languages Exile understands, she understands because of her own skills. The player isn't even required to pick up the HK vocabulator. Of course, she doesn't speak Shyriiwook, as it's only possible for Wookiees, but she understands it. - Sikon 07:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Whether or not the player picks up the Sonic Imprint Sensor, the game assumes that the Exile has it. It's explained in a conversation with HK:

''HK-47: Query: Master, excuse me, one thing I have noticed as we travel the galaxy - you seem to possess the ability to understand a variety of alien languages. Forgive me, but that does not seem in keeping with my assessment of your talents.''

Exile: I picked up a sonic imprint sensor on Peragus - it doubles as a translator.

''HK-47: Answer: Because it seems to know all the languages I do, and I am feeling degrees of familiarity and inferiority both at once. ... Indeed, it seems to be modeled after my vocabulator, with some modifications, of course.''


 * From that conversation the game seems to imply that the Exile knows only a limited amount of languages, and surely not one as obscure as Shyriiwook. As far as I can tell, the only languages that the Exile has been confirmed as knowing on her own is galactic basic and droid speak. Master Kavar 08:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, the sensor. I get it now. - Sikon 08:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have an idea!
So I was reading the "arguments" over this very very stupid debate of male vs. female Exile. Some arguments I laughed at, some I cried for. This is just ridiculous. So here's an idea: we create two seperate articles! I know, I'm brilliant. Now, in order to avoid people getting their panties in a knot, we could name the article (gasp!) something not referencing sex! Now, fulfilling this feat is not for the weak of mind; it is something that only the brightest of this community can contemplate on. After all, the last thing we want is an article labeled, "MALE JEDI EXILE LOL!!!1" My suggestion for the name of this proposed article: "Substantial Alternate Plotlines for KOTOR2." With a title like this, we can talk about ALL of the alternate plotlines for the game, not just gender change. This way, the femi-nazis don't bitch about it, and the chauvinist pigs can shut face. Do the same for KOTOR1 and we've got two very full, very rich articles right there.

For those of you worried about canon issues, consider this: the game is considered canon. Therefore, all the plotlines are considered canon. After all, alternate timelines are considered as much canon as anything else. This is just an extension from that, really.

You all have to admit, if it weren't for the fact that this sparked a hot debate, the very idea of a Behind the Scenes section taking up half an article would be shunted to a seperate article in a heartbeat. Sirius Shadowflame 20:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I once felt the same way about creating two profiles to satisfy everyone, but after giving it some thought I know believe it works better the way it is now. Some people are unhappy about the canonizing of the Exile, but the character now transcends her video game origins, and the article should reflect the "official" character she is. The rest of the "alternative" data about the Exile from the video game works just fine as a BTS section. There's no reason why both sides can't be presented, but they're (unfortunately) not equal, and shouldn't be presented as such. Master Kavar 20:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It would only serve to satisfy the people who can't accept canon. A stupid idea. That's the problem with the world today. Everyone has to be satisfied. No such thing as "tough luck" anymore...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No separate articles. The alternate storyline is already covered in the BTS section of the main article. - Sikon 07:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I like the idea. Sometimes the canon can get too... important and it ruins the greatness of Star Wars. The game is absolutley wonderful, but the canon thing... kind of ruins it. If you like that the exile is a female, then play as a female exile. But if you like a male exile more, than play the male exile. I played both, and I say that I liked playing the male exile more, because Brianna is a better fighter than Mical... and you don't have a cracked flesh Sith Lord who loves you. User talk:Dacen Bassak 17:04, 23 March, 2007
 * The article on the Jedi Exile is an article about a canonical Star Wars character, not the game. For an article about the game, see Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. - Sikon 11:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Unblock the article for edits!
Look, it's been so many months since the article was blocked because of the whole gender issue. I think we're just about done with that whole issue, so unblock it! If anyone tries to make changes, we block them. Jedi Striker 16:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It is unlocked. The only reason you can't edit it is because you're not logged in. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 21:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, then I am sooooo stupid. But my background and editing windows keep getting screwed up whenever I log in. Jedi Striker 12:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Exile vs. Revan?
I don't know if this could be considered canonical or not, but since there's no level cap in KotOR II, the Exile can become significantly more powerful than Revan in the first one. Do you think we ought to make some reference to that in the P&A section? The masters at the Enclave said that her power came from "leeching" off of others.

Eowynjedi 23:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Levels are game mechanics. Game mechanics = not canon. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 23:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps because I've so often claimed that various things are not game mechanics, I feel compelled to voice my assent with Redemption. As for the "leeching", I believe Kreia stated it was a power that Revan also possessed. Oh, and here's a fun side-note: don't you just love KOTOR 2's explanations for game mechanics? How can Darth Sion take such a beating and still live? / Answer: Master, you and your companions fall "unconscious" and get back up all the time, so it seems pretty common. &mdash; and of course &mdash; You mean I'm leeching off of others? / Well, yeah. You didn't notice that you get stronger every time you kill someone? What did you think you were doing, leveling-up? -BaronGrackle 15:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Those aren't really in-game explanations so much as in-game jokes. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it is cannon because after you deafet Darth Traya she says you are greater than any i have ever trained, that includes reven. oh and by the way kotor2 does have a level cap it is 50-Darth Morder
 * when does she say the exile is greater/the most powerful than any she has ever trained? revan was described as the heart of the force while the exile is the death of the force. those are oposites and since she wanted the force to die, i think traya is biased and revan is far more powerful.
 * Darth Traya says it on malachor v after you deafeat her, her exact words are, "you are far greater than any i have ever trained, by killing me here you have rewarded me more than you can possibly know.-Darth Morder
 * Could just be flattery, or her trying to deal with her recent defeat. I don't think we can count a dying womens last words as a source, unless it's coherent speech. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 15:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Top Jedi
To me the Exile is one of the best Jedi ever. She defeated Darth Nihilus,discouarge Sion, and killed Kreia. Sion and Nobody were easy, but defeating Kreia was amazing feat. Kreia was a master stagiest, and yet the Exile still won, she is amazing.
 * Talk pages aren't the place to post your thoughts on your favourite characters. They're for discussions of the article itself - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Alignment of the Jedi Exile
I apologize profusely in advance if I am bringing up a subject that has already been beaten to death several times...Is the Exile LS, DS, or Neutral? If any of these, where is it stated? Grand Moff Rhell 23:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The NEGTD describes her as a heroine, implying LSF. Lord Patrick 05:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

And the NEGTD says that G0-T0 was killed by HK-47 and the '51s, I think. And that is the light side. RDMio 16:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Image
Can we get an image for the male Exile face options? Like this but male? Telos 04:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * For what reason? Last time I did this request for the female Revan heads, it went to waste. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 04:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't exactly know why I want it... I suppose I could use it for articles I have made on Star Wars Fanon Wiki... If you don't think my reason is good enough I don't mind if you don't supply the pic. Telos 05:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * We may be able to put it in the article somewhere... Telos 20:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It could go in the Behind the scenes section.--Logan Felipe 03:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Jedi weaponmaster
Was the Exile a jedi weaponmaster, because she master many forms in a matter of seconds.--Sunquan 23:14, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no canon info on that. - TopAce 18:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Besides, many jedi were skilled with multiple weapons. Jedi master Rimsek 01:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Revision Ideas
Hello everyone! I've revised the 'significance' section offline. However, due to the block I will post it here. Sysops do what you will with it.

== Significance == "You were always a difficult one to read&mdash;both when you were tied to the Force, and even more when it was lost to you."

- Zez-Kai Ell

The ramifications of the Exile's actions were still being felt throughout the galaxy nearly 4,000 years after the defeat of Kreia. The Jedi she trained would go on to resurrect the decimated Jedi order into a body that would number thousands until Palpatine's great purge. Furthermore, the actions she took on Dantooine, Onderon, and Telos would ensure the solidification of a republic that had been teetering on collapse, and prolong its existence for several thousand more years. Whether this ultimately proved to have positive or negative effect was certainly a subject of debate among historians for centuries to come. Whatever the result, it is undeniable that the Exile was an extraordinary example of a single individual upon which the fate of the Galaxy, for albeit a brief time, pivoted. Jedi Revan 19:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Name Generator
I'm sure this has already been addressed, but how is "Lann Darth" an easter egg? Darth may be a sith title, but it's hardly an easter egg. Jedi master Rimsek   02:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, I checked the archives, and it was addressed, but no answer was given. Jedi master Rimsek   [[Image:Jedi Order.jpg|20px]] 02:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Revan's trust
It says on one of the loading screens in kotor2 that Revan's forces at Malachor V were made up of those whose loyalties to him lay in doubt. Does that mean that the exile wasn't trusted by/didn't trust Revan. Also it needs a new picture. - unsigned(but its me) 17:14, 15 March 2007
 * It's likely. Plus, if the Exile was as powerful as Revan (as game mechanics would imply), then it's likely that Revan would have seen her as a threat if she remained a lightsider. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya, but if he didn't trust "her", then why was she given power over the Mass Shadow Generator? User:Uric Dracus 09:52, 30 March 2007
 * Likely because he expected her to use it. MPK 12:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Race
The pictures we have all show the exile as light-skinned. If we're not showing her face or giving her name because neither has been canonically established, then why are we showing her skin color? - Milo Fett [Comlink] 23:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC) OK, thanks. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 02:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure the only pictures that should be there are the infobox and BTS ones. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 23:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I plan on fixing those images so it's unclear as to what her race is. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 00:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Republic Navy admirals?
Source? - Sikon 06:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The game. She was said to have "&hellip;lead the Republic fleet that defeated us at Malachor&hellip;" (or something similar) by Canderous Ordo. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean she was an Admiral. - Sikon 09:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

"Admirals, also known generally as flag officers, were typically responsible for a high level military command at battle group or fleet level, and/or for administrative and political duties relating to naval operations."

- Admiral article


 * The Exile lead the Republic fleet both administratively and militarily, thus, she was an admiral. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Just because she led the Republic fleet doesn't mean she actually held the military rank of Admiral. Besides, we know she was a Jedi General. - Sikon 10:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sikon's right. There are plenty of cases where fleets are led by generals instead of admirals (Wedge Antilles, Keyan Farlander and Garm Bel Iblis to name a few) and she is referred to as 'General' throughout the game by Bao-Dur. Green Tentacle (Talk) 10:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't care either way, but if you look at the description for the category, you will see that it includes Generals, as well as Jedi Generals; because they controlled fleets. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 14:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * But Who's to say the republic navy admiral page is entirely correct? It doesn't exactly make much sense. It differentiates between admiral and republic navy admiral. If they were an admiral in the republic navy, doesn't that imply that they're a republic navy admiral? Just a little? Jedi master Rimsek   [[Image:Chiss Insignia.jpg|20px]] My rantings 20:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm just going by what the category says. the category says it includes Admirals, Generals and Jedi generals. Of whish the Exile was one. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but the article doesn't make much sense. Should we remove the tag until this is resolved? [[Image:Jedi master Rimsek.jpg]][[Image:Chiss Insignia.jpg|20px]] My rantings 22:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We should replace this tag with one about interactions with other notable jedi, eg. Jolee Bindo, Revan, even Bastila. User:Uric Dracus 10:09, 30 March 2007

personality
a personality section should be added. all we have to go by is what definately happened before the game. two things which spring to mind are vrook and vandar's conversation(shown by robot on dantooine) and the stabbing of the lightsaber into the central stone. this seems to show that she/he was hot tempered and not exactly the ideal jedi. this could also mean she/he was a guardian, though thats just a theory. just wanted to say something could be added about that. - unsigned

I think a small personality section could be added from that, although her being a guardian is in no way canon, so no to that part. What we do know about her personality from what others say: Vrook: Today I caught her in a heated argument with my Padawan! Her Master refuses to properly discipline... (static) ...I want to know what action you intend! Vandar: Vrook, I respect your wisdom, but it is not your concern. Vrook: But... (static) uncontrolled! (static)... whatever the other Padawans see her do, they are quick to do the same... (static) other students dislike her intensely! Vandar: True, an average student of the Force... (static) but with a unique strength... (static) is a natural leader... Vrook: I strongly disagree... (static) mediocre Jedi... (static) lust for power! (static) ...will lead to the dark side! Furthermore it... (static, cuts off) -  Sarendipity  Talk 19:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * She didn't cut herself off from others as was common for Jedi to do, which is part of why she formed such strong bonds.
 * Among all the Jedi who served in the wars, she was the only one to return to face the council. After Malachor V, she cut herself off from the Force and forsook the company of others. She was the only known Jedi to survive the war and not follow Revan afterward. All of this says something about her character.
 * The exact quotes from the conversation between Vandar and Vrook:
 * Atris also says that when she stabbed her lightsaber into the center stone, she was "so right, so sure of it, I doubted myself." I don't think it shows a short temper so much as frustration with the council.


 * I agree that a Personality section should be added, I mean,that's just my opinion, but anyways. . . I think a notable thing is her defensive comments towards the Ebon Hawk! *Laughs* Exile Catherine 19:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)Exile_Catherine


 * I don't feel there is enough information for a personality section. For example, the player can deviate completely from what was said by other characters. http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/f2/Jedi_master_Rimsek.jpg [[Image:Chiss Insignia.jpg|20px]] 15:48, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

jedi exile novel
I am an author, and Ive be thinking about writing a book on KOTOR 2. I would like to know how to contact George Lucas to get permission to do so. Also if I write it I would make the Jedi Exile a Dark Jedi and would explain why (so it wouldn't be fan-fiction). Would this work? Please respond on how to contact him and my question.
 * [personal attack removed] -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 01:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What our rather frank but nonetheless correct friend means is, writing Star Wars fiction is basically by invite-only. And even so, George Lucas really has nothing to do with author selection. The general advice is to establish yourself as a sci-fi author and hope Del Rey takes notice. Otherwise, fan-fiction is the way to go. -- Ozzel 01:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * [personal attack removed] Say it like it is... Or it was. 15:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * [personal attack removed] Jasca Ducato Sith campaign 16:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Message
What's the point of the message telling us that she's female and to "get over it"? Should I assume a fair amount of people got themselves banned for constantly claiming she was male and trying to edit the article to that effect? Destroyer Droid 20:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC) Im a guy... I don't mind female heroes... some other people really should ge tthe hint. Still... best not to get involved in the "OMG ITS LIEK THE MALE/FEMALE" arguments. Destroyer Droid 23:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC) Keep all mentions of the exile's gender female, and let the idiots whine on forums. Destroyer Droid 01:11, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You got it. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. No let us never speak of it again. -- SFH 23:42, 5 May 2007 (UTC)