Talk:Kyle Katarn

I personally don't have time to add any of this right now, but for those interested, a bunch of new biographical information has recently been put up at Wizards of the Coast's website, here. JSarek 18:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Death in Star by Star
''Kyle was originally slated to die in the novel Star by Star, but the scene was removed at the last minute, to leave open the possibility of any New Jedi Order era games. ''

Was Kyle going to lead the Myrkr Strike Team, or was he to die in the Fall of Coruscant? -- SFH 05:36, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * It's often assumed his death would be at one of the important climaxes in the book. However my personal suspicion is that he was going to be one of the Jedi casually axed by a voxyn at the beginning of the novel.  I have no evidence for this, but given how much they wanted to establish the fact that the voxyn were a threat, and how few other places in the storyline he would have fit in, it seems most likely to me.  jSarek 10:09, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Well if the voxyn theory is true, thank God they did take it out. The man can break into an Imperial facility practically blindfolded, and a six legged, oversized rotwieler takes him out? They didn't remove it for a possible video game, they took it out for lack of believability. -- SFH 16:11, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * And, man, would they be unpopular if they killed him off. And true, he killed seven Dark Jedi without having received any formal jedi training, so if he died this way, it would be really stupid. KEJ 10:47, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * What's the source for his slated death? Author commentary? --SparqMan 02:37, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd like to know too. And I think a lot of other Katarn fans would ;-) KEJ 17:32, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * A panel discussion at Celebration III regarding the new (at the time) Legacy era, with Sue Rostoni, Shelly Shapiro, Leland Chee, Karen Traviss, Troy Denning, and Aaron Allston. Video of it is floating around somewhere at theforce.net. jSarek 18:50, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Cool. Maybe we should put this in the behind-the-scenes section with a link to the video if somebody ever finds it. KEJ 20:20, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Who created Mr. Katarn?
I'd just wanted to knew, thanks.

Justin Chin and the Dark Forces developement team did.--212.97.182.235 01:54, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Yet another boring canon argument
I cannot agree with the portion of the article that claims that Katarn is a canonical character, provided that this character is a videogame character and *not* from the movies or any book penned by George Lucas, nor by any spin-off or creation directly by George Lucas. I doubt the inclusion of Coruscant in the Star Wars movies is a "green light" to allow all Expanded Universe stuff as what will happen in the films or indicative of verity in knowing what Lucas has in mind for these characters. Yes, we are welcome to imagine what we will of Star Wars, but no, this does not make "canonical" any LucasArts game, various novels set in Lucas's universe (even if allowed by Lucas to legally use his characters, situations, and locations), nor fan fiction nor one's private roleplaying game. 70.226.128.198
 * Nevertheless, Katarn appears in several books that are considered canonical, such as many of the New Jedi Order books and Dietz' three novellas. It's the inclusion of Katarn into canonical pieces that makes him canonical as well. And I think you'd offend a whole range of authors by comparing Katarn and the Expanded Universe to fan fiction. Katarn as well as most other EU are, whether we like it or not (and believe you me, there are plenty of things in EU that I don't like), part of the Star Wars canon KEJ 16:38, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Although I don't know why I'm wasting my time with someone who probably posted this just to stir up trouble, I advise you to read this for why he is called canonical. Kyle Katarn is C-Canon. StarNeptune
 * Your opinions on the nature of Star Wars canon are part of a shrinking (but still annoying) minority and at this point are largely irrelevant. Countless employees operating under the Lucas banner have made the situation abundantly clear, and if you don't like it then you can go away. They love closed-minded people like you on the Star Trek side of various ST-vs-SW arguments, try hanging out there. &mdash;Darth Culator   (talk)  17:29, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't bite the newcomers... - Sikon [ Talk ] 18:03, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry. But it's hard to avoid when someone basically attacks the fundamental nature of Wookieepedia. Just think about how much this site and others like it would suck without the EU. Think about how shallow the movies really are when they stand alone. When someone posts the same tired anti-EU nonsense, I feel an automatic compulsion to bitch-slap them. &mdash;Darth Culator   (talk)  19:10, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Heh. Well, whether or not they agree or disagree with Kyle's being canon, he IS canon. They have the right to dislike that, but it does not change the fact that he is canon. I just think that this person does not know anything about Star Wars canon (or Wookieepedia for that matter). I think StarNeptune did the right thing in hinting at that by linking to the relevant article. Basically, I think this "boring canon argument" was based on ignorance (I hope I'm not biting the newcomer here) KEJ 22:33, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems every time I post on TF.N or SW.com, I always run into a newcomer like this who says something like "Well, the EU isn't canon anyway, but I think the Clone Wars series probably is, cause its cool. And I guess the live action series will be because Lucas will be involved and real people will be in it." And then of course, I say they are wrong, they ask me to explain, I give them a lengthy explanation, they still disagree with me, and they end up calling me a fanboy when I start using terms like G and C canon. They then try to criticise the entire idea and resort to "Still, the films are the only real canon." WTF?!? What's the deal with these people who seem to think that only the films can be canon? Why on earth would anyone want just the films to be canon. As Darth Culator said, the Star Wars films would be rather dry without the EU, as would Wookieepedia. General Kenobi 22:41, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * They are commonly referred to as Film purists. They are extremely stubborn; it is simply a waste of effort to argue with them, and a waste of emotion to get angry with them. They are best ignored. --Azizlight 23:20, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Name
I'd prefer if 'Kyle' hadn't been 'replaced with 'Katarn' for the reason that there is reference to another Katarn in the article - namely, Morgan Katarn; using 'Kyle' would diminish the chance of onfusing the reader. KEJ 13:12, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * If used in teh same sentence, the father should be refered to as Morgan or "Katarn's father". --SparqMan 17:11, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Could be a solution. Let's see how it works outKEJ 20:46, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Lightsaber education
Who taught Katarn how to use his lightsaber in the first place? Or was he just going mostly on gut?--SparqMan 18:02, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * In Dietz' books, Kyle had already learned fencing at the Imperial Academy and later he was instructed by Qu Rahn's force-spirit. At the Valley of the Jedi, he was instructed by some of the jedi spirits trapped there, too. I guess he was also going on gut in addition to this. KEJ 18:16, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he applied what he knew from his fencing lessons mostly. --Master Starkeiller 18:40, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)


 * In the game, Morgan had set up a training wall in his workshop to practice attacks and had a bunch of remotes to help him train to deflect blasters. hash 12:12, 28 Nov 2005

Non-Video Game Appearances
I think Kyle Katarn has always been my favorite Star Wars character. Dark Forces was the game to open my eyes to the Expanded Universe, so Kyle's almost become the personification of the EU to me.

With that said, all I really know about him comes from the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games, the three novelizations by William C. Dietz, and the content of this Wookieepedia page. So I'm curious: does he play a significant role in any of the novels or comics listed under "Appearances", or does he just make brief cameos? What other Star Wars reading would someone recommend to a Katarn fan?--SM-716 02:20, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I think he's the main character of Equals and Opposites. I haven't read it though, but I'd sure like to KEJ 17:29, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * They're mostly just cameos. Like KEJ said, he's the main character in Equals and Opposites, and during a Masters Council scene in The Unseen Queen he has a fair share of dialogue, but that's about it. Kuralyov 17:42, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Deleted image
This is the image I removed the the page:


 * It should be put back. There are plenty of live action images there already. QuentinGeorge 11:45, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Like I've said before, I feel that, when available, live action images should be used as the main image. I don't know why you qwish to remove it from the main image box. Adamwankenobi 11:58, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a profile pic, for one, and gives a clearer, better view of Katarn's face than the game still. So please don't remove it again. QuentinGeorge 12:01, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with Adamwankenobi: a live-action shot, or at least one of the novelization's painted illustrations, would be better for the main image. Let's be honest: graphics rendered by the Quake III engine aren't very pretty. Don't get me wrong, the above-right image should still be on the page somewhere (probably in the sections dealing with Jedi Outcast and Academy), but I would vote for the image to the left as the main pic. SM-716 19:15, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * The pic is nice for main and should be left where it is. --Master Starkeiller 23:20, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't care which of the pics is the main image, as long as they're both included in the article KEJ 02:07, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
Why did the clenaup tag get taken down? Am I the only one who notices that there are two separate biographies of him here? Kuralyov 20:25, 25 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I read it as the first being a biography and second section focusing on his development over time (personality, psychology). --SparqMan 06:10, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * If it's such a problem, why not just remove it? Doesn't look like it would hinder too much by doing so. --MarcK [talk] 06:15, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Is that clean-up message really nessecary? What's wrong in have in a biography-section and a personality/character secrion? KEJ 13:14, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Terrible Shape
This article is in terrible shape. I can't believe it is featured. I don't know if it is vandalism or pure stupidity but the Death Star is name "pink star" and the article is full of spelling mistakes. --UVnet 15:13, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * It was a couple acts of vandalism. If you spot that again in the future, it is best to contact an experienced user or administrator who can fix it. --SparqMan 16:54, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Missing details
Details on his stormtrooper training from Soldier for the Empire, freeing prisoners on Artus Prime, return to Sulon to collect father's belongings (attacked by Grave Tusken)...what else is missing? --SparqMan 17:07, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

One more pic
This article has ebough pics, I guess, but still wouldn't a pic from Mysteries of the Sith be in its place? Maybe it could be placed under "Behind the Scenes" - it was after all this game that introduced his greying temples :-/ KEJ 11:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Portrayal
The intro cutscene of JK shows Kyle in his young days with his father. Is he still Jason Court, or a younger uncredited actor? Brings to mind Luke though :) MoffRebus 23:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it's a cleanshaven Jason Court. KEJ 10:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Talents section

 * I believe the Talents section should be written in In-Universe format, yet it has numerous OOU material. Was I wrong or it needs a cleanup? Darth Kevinmhk 16:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, and I also think it is a bit over-the-top in its gushing praise for him. --Eyrezer 01:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 02:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Image source
What's the source of this extremely cool image? KEJ 11:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * "Equals and Opposites," Star Wars Tales 21. jSarek 12:05, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser
In JK:JA Kyle mentions that he served on a Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser during his imperiel days and I think it requires SOME mention in the artical but where should it be added? DX-2052 18:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Lightsabers Used
This is something I've brought up every time I come across a Jedi Outcast/Kyle Katarn discussion on a postboard, so I'll bring it up here too. So let's see: the first saber Kyle used, the green one, once belonged to Jedi master Qu Rahn. Since the light-side ending of Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight is canonical, the green saber is smashed, and Kyle continues by taking Dark Jedi Yun's yellow saber. In Mysteries of the Sith, Katarn's saber is more of an orangey color, but if you were to tell me that it's supposed to still be Yun's saber, I can buy that.

But then where does Kyle's blue saber come from? He refers to it as HIS lightsaber when he retrieves it from the Jedi Temple in Outcast. I would assume he built it himself at some point, as lightsaber construction is an important step in a Jedi's training. But just WHEN did he do that? As far as I know, he used the yellow/orange saber up until the end of MotS... at which point, he renounced his connection to the Force (right? It's been a few years since I played it).

Is the blue saber just a plot hole to get Katarn to wield a Lucas-approved color, or is there actual reasoning behind it that I missed? What's everyone else's take on it? --SM-716 08:18, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, after Mysteries of the Sith, he briefly attended the Jedi Praxeum before handing his lightsaber over to Skywalker. My guess would be, he made it as part of his training there. jSarek 09:27, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

As of right now, this article states that Kyle gave up Yun's saber and created his own sometime BEFORE MotS. I have no first-hand knowledge of anything outside the Jedi Knight/MotS/Jedi Outcast games, so I have no idea what the source of that claim is. However, if it's true, that would mean Kyle's saber color in the first act of MotS (orangey-yellow, presumably meant to be yellow after Yun's saber) is just a blooper on the part of the developers, and that the true color should be blue, since he should be using his Jedi Outcast-era saber. Also, at the end of the game when Mara faces off with Kyle, he's suddenly got a red saber. Possible explanations: Kyle gave up Yun's saber and constructed his own, using a orange/yellow crystal. Sometime between the construction of this lightsaber and Jedi Outcast, he either built a new saber or changed the crystal color. As for the red saber, Kyle could have either discovered some Sith artifacts in the temple and found a red lightsaber crystal, which he promptly placed into his lightsaber to reflect his embrace of the dark side--or simply have found an old sith saber laying around still in perfect working order (less likely). Assuming he switching out his crystal sometime before Mara found him, it would be more plausible that he might've switched in a blue crystal when he was taking out the red one, instead of using his old orange/yellow crystal. All of this assumes that he was using the same hilt he constructed after he stopped using Yun's saber. Thoughts? Jibegod 17:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I have an issue with the way Kyle's lightsabers are addressed. The article says this: "After his adventure, Kyle gave up Yun's lightsaber and built his own special blue one", but, unless the novels specifically say that Kyle's first saber was a blue one, then this must be inaccurate. Kyle's saber in Mysteries of the Sith is clearly an orange one--not Yun's yellow saber. Therefore, unless other expansion material says otherwise, I think we should edit the article to say that Kyle constructed an orange lightsaber after giving up Yun's, and he constructed a new blue lightsaber sometime after Mara Jade brought him back from the dark side. Of course, everything that Jibegod says above makes perfect sense and could be what happened. But, none of that material is in the article now... right now, the article is not only speculative; it's in contradiction of what we know. BaronGrackle 04:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * My suggestion is simple: remove the color issue from main article and address it in BTS. Darth Kevinmhk 14:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Main image
Can we change the image in the infobox? There are a ton of options, and having a computer rendered one just doesn't look that great to me. How about this one? --Eyrezer 12:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd go for an image of Jason Court in stead. I don't think the image from Power of the Jedi's that good. KEJ 12:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)