Talk:Darth Bane/Legends

Saved
Hey, I saved the Darth Bane article from my site. It has a few bits and pieces that aren't in this one. I saved it here: User:Beeurd/Bane If someone else wants incorporate the missing infor into the current article that'd be great. I'd rather not do it myself because I just know I'll over-edit it and end up changing must of the article with my own stuff. Or, I could just go ahead.... ? --Beeurd 22:14, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I'd do it - but I wrote the original article, so I'd be biased the other way. QuentinGeorge 22:55, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

lol, well lets see if anyone picks up the challenge and if not we'll try work something out. =)--Beeurd 23:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I'm gonna go ahead. I'll to change as little as possible. --Beeurd 18:13, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Why was the other picture removed? It shows Bane before the orbalisks, and, if anything, both should be in the article. QuentinGeorge 05:33, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Who created Darth Bane?
I'd just like to knew.Thanks. where is the source for the jedi discovering bane and his order? DarthMalus
 * Believe it or not, George Lucas did. Terry Brooks, Kevin J. Anderson and Darko Macan expanded on Lucas' brief outline. QuentinGeorge 05:09, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, we need a Behind the Scenes section with this info (and more if available), I hadn't realised that myself. --beeurd 16:56, 18 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Lucas invented the name. It's unlikely that this character matches what he had in mind.
 * Actually, Lucas gave Brooks a brief outline of the character's personality. QuentinGeorge 22:04, 18 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * The fact that Yoda knows that there are always two. .  .  .  .  08:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Evil Never Dies, an article by continuity god Abel Peña. Havac 08:20, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Who is Darth Bane's master?
seriously who is it. I think it's Darth Quordis is that right?---Jack Colton
 * It says Qordis in the article. Also, it's not Darth Qordis, just Qordis. -- SFH 02:27, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Oh sorry I guess I some how skipped that paragraph. Thanks though I was having this big argument with my friend and you tottaly cleared it up. Thanks--Jack Colton
 * Qordis would not be Bane's master in my eyes, after reading Path of Destruction, it would be more likely to deem Ka'sim the master if anyone, Bane did the bulk of his teachings with Ka'sim and a fellow student Githany  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 09:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * bane did not have one true master. that was one of the things that bugged bane the most about kaan's sith. the apprentices were treated as students at school, going to different teachers and masters. bane learned the most from kasim, githany and revan's holocron--Black Jack Scarron 10:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That question was posted before DB:PoD was written. Before that work, Qordis was specifically established as Bane's sole master. QuentinGeorge 10:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Why not list Revan among Darth Bane's masters? Revan's holocron was one of the single most important instructors to Bane. Bane himself felt that the one holocron alone was more valuable than the entirety of archives of the Sith Academy on Korriban. And to quote the book directly:

"These words rang especially true for Bane, as if the preprogrammed personality of his virtual Master sensed it was nearing its end and had tailored its last lessons especially for him."

- Darth Bane: Path of Destruction (p.235, hardcover)

It is made clear, by this excerpt from the book, that even Bane himself considered Revan his Master, albeit through the programmed personality of the holocron. Notice the use of his and the capitalization of Master. They place a special emphasis on the importance Bane placed on the holocron and its creator.--Master Dakari 02:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a good question! I think it is Quordis. But i heard somewhere that in order to become a true Sith (like the Jedi trials)you have to kill your own master. I mean look at palpatine what did he do? kill his master!<**> --user:ewokmenace

Image
I changed the main image to the picture of Bane in his armor, I thought the other one made him look like a toad.--Rodtheanimegod4ever He still looks like a to-oad... The one with the armor seems to be the better-quality image. I wanted good quality on something that might be the Featured Article--Rodtheanimegod4ever Okay, I put it back :). User:Rodtheanimegod4ever
 * And I changed it back. A picture of him with his face exposed is better than one where his face is concealed. --Imp 02:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Whether he looks like a toad is irrelevant. It provides a better view of his face. Plus, the other one looks like he's wearing a flower pot. QuentinGeorge 02:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Point taken.
 * Well, Dark Lords have never been known to be pleasing to look at. I guess Bane just doesn't photograph well. -- SFH 02:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I put it back up there but don't fret. The one that shows his toad-face is where the other one used to be, with a cool caption, too--Rodtheanimegod4ever
 * Please don't do that again. The current one is actually a far higher quality image than the poorly cut out scan from the NEGTC. QuentinGeorge 05:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed the main image because the image that was there before is oddly done and is not reflective of the character in the comics. He looks much different in the actual comic book compared to the cover image of that one issue. If anyone takes issue with what I replaced it with please discuss it here so we don't have an edit war or something. I think an agreeable solution can be reached if anyone has a problem with the one I chose.--DannyBoy7783 23:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I have reverted the page. Please don't replace images like that. The original was a canon image and hence I can see no reason to change it, except that you don't like it. QuentinGeorge 05:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the issue covers better, anyways; the fact that they're usually more detailed makes me think that it's a more accurate image of the things they're representing. Especially in the TOTJ comics, although that's neither here nor there. Kuralyov 05:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Bane 15.jpg|thumb|right|New Image]]
 * Here's DannyBoy's new image. For what it's worth, I don't think it's a very good shot of Bane, and the nameless guy in the background is a little distracting. QuentinGeorge 05:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

All the images here are canon quentin. It's not an issue of canon. It's an issue of what portrays the character best. That cover image makes him look strange. His face looks odd and he doesn't look like that IN the entire comic series of Jedi vs Sith. It's hard to find a good image of him in the comic that isn't obscured by text bubbles or other characters. Is it better to use that cover image or an image that actually portrays what he looked like? I say the latter. I didn't say that my image was the best which is why I said it should be discussed. I was skimming through the comics trying to find a good image. Also, the guy cowering may be distracting but it's also a testament to Bane's character. Quentin: I'm going to replace images that aren't representative of the character. If that bothers you I'm sorry but I'm trying to make the article as best as it can be. And Kuralyov: That cover image isn't anymore detailed than the comic image. While I don't disagree that cover images are usually more detailked in this case there is little difference in the level of detail besides some shading differences due to the different artists' style. Also, for anyone who is curious, I didn't cut off Bane in that image, that is how the comic panel is layed out.--DannyBoy7783 17:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The image is growing on me the more I see it but I still would prefer one from the comic, not the comic cover. The only comic image in the article isn't that great (though it is important because it shows when he met Zannah). Perhaps the image I uploaded can be incorporated in the article elsewhere?--DannyBoy7783 17:48, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any need for another image. The article is fine. QuentinGeorge 20:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I would have to oppose this image as well. He might not look like a toad or a flower pot, but he does look a little like Apocalypse. -- SFH 20:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you are misunderstanding me Quentin. I'm not just asking you. I'm asking everyone. It's fine that you think the page is ok the way it is but I disagree and I'd like to have some discussion on this.--DannyBoy7783 14:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That last comment was a little inflammatory and I apologize. No one seems to agree with me at the moment so I'll let it rest for now.--DannyBoy7783 15:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * New image of Bane available, as the cover of Path of Destruction features a full size image of his face....
 * Decent enough image. Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, A Novel of the Old Republic. It would be better if it was just the cover art without the book title and stuff. I still don't like what we have now (I'm just throwing that out there) --DannyBoy7783 00:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Holy hell! That is one ugly image! Bane looks like a freaking mime! Please don't replace toad-face with mime-face!Cull Tremayne 06:14, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * the Path of Destruction image should be cropped and used instead.
 * Can we please get the original image back. The book cover is terrible, and looks more like a fey poseur than a muscled ex-miner. QuentinGeorge 11:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Could some one with a Darth Bane miniature post his image from the box? Lord Darth Bane
 * I do not aprove of the cover art on Path of Destruction it said he had purpleish greyish skin not greyish yellowish <**>Ewokmenace 16:20, 13 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace

Dessel
So I suppose we should move this to Dessel, no? --Imp 06:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC) I've done some research so far i don't think the Jedi are all powereful you've got to give all the Dark lords a hand they're no idiots<**>Ewokmenace 13:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace
 * No. He was known as Darth Bane for most of his life and he abandoned the name Dessel. See -> Darth Zannah, Darth Millennial, Darth Maul, Darth Plagueis etc. QuentinGeorge 06:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * With Millennial, Maul, and Plaguies, we don't know their real names (though Maul's name may well have been Darth Maul). So really, those are just placeholders until&mdash;or more accurately if&mdash;we learn their real names. As for Darth Zannah...well, that was before I found this site, so I don't know what was going on there. Never the less, I think Imp has a point. I don't like moving it to Dessel anymore than the rest of you, but it is the established precedent and pattern that we have adopted. -- SFH 00:46, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Established policy is that it belongs at the most accurate version of the last name they held. Dessel abandoned his original name and became Darth Bane - unlike Thrawn, who merely used an alias. QuentinGeorge 05:27, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Then why are Grievous and the Dark Woman at Qymaen jai Sheelal and An'ya Kuro? I'm not trying to pick a fight here, Quentin. I just don't understand the differences. -- SFH 19:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The Dark Woman is an alias. As for Sheelal, he should probably be at Grievous, since even the article seems to indicate he changed his name. QuentinGeorge 19:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The name the character was first known by, mostly known by should in fact always be what the article is titled.
 * The DARTH title is a symbol of dignity and power and should be treated as such. I have a question for all you out there, Is the Dark side stronger?

Death
How exactly did Bane die? The article doesn't even say if he died or not. What happened to him after the Jedi learned about the new Sith Lords?
 * Anything that happened to him following Jedi vs. Sith / Bane of the Sith is pretty much a mystery. --MarcK [talk] 12:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well either the jedi killed him or Zannah killed him. Betraying Bane to the Jedi, there's numerous events, but we dont know. Though how would you expect?
 * Well, I remember Dooku mentioning to Quinlan Vos while he's looking at Darth Andendu's holocron that some Sith Lord weren't killed by Jedi or betrayed by other Sith, they died of natural causes. Darth Vatrir (pronounced Va-Trear) (PS: If this is a dead discussion, I just wanted to mention that little factoid.)

Bane's Lightsaber?

 * Are we sure that the crimson lightsaber in Jedi VS Sith #1 (i.e. the picture in the article BTS section) is Bane's? It contradicts the famous Jedi VS Sith Cover, The New Essential Guide to Character's picture, and Bane of the Sith's picture. All the others are purple blade, and why would Bane left his lightsaber somewhere that can be pick up by kids? Darth Kevinmhk 11:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It's assumed it's Bane's. And regardless, it certainly becomes his at that point, and he carries it throughout Jedi vs Sith. Also, comic covers are non-canon, and I believe what is depicted in in-universe material (i.e. comics) trumps essential guide art - Kwenn 21:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * We still got Bane of the Sith story picture as canonical lightsaber appearance Darth Kevinmhk 06:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Lightsabers change in comic/cover art all the time. I wouldn't concern yourself too much with it....but it's likely that Bane's saber is red, and the purple is a colouring stuff up. QuentinGeorge 06:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Just try to keep article info as canonical as possible, never mind! Darth Kevinmhk 07:01, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * his saber was purple. Purple rules! but where did he get the purple crystal? was it the one Qordis gave him?
 * Bane's lightsaber is red and was a curved hilt. In Path of Destruction, Kas'im gave Bane his former masters lightsaber. The purple blade could be from the crystal that Qordis gave him, or not. I think that the book would be more canon than the comics, wouldn't it?
 * Bane's lightsaber color is red. I contacted Dark Horse comics about the issue and they e-mailed me back confirming that his blade color is RED. Lord Darth Bane 06:48, 22 December 2006
 * I'd love to see him get his ass kicked by someone. Just wishful thinking :P Gustafar 22:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * did u happen to read his novel? he got whooped a number of times. pretty badly. broken bones, tears i eyes, bits of teeth shooting out of his mouth...--Black Jack Scarron 16:20, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The toy of Darth Bane that Hasbro just released an image of has him with a purple lightsaber, which is awesome. Besides, every picture on the article save for one shows him with a purple blade.
 * The photo of the toy might just be a sample model and not the real thing. Also if you look at some of the Anakin VS Obi-Wan photos, you will see that their blades have a purple shade, due to the red lava background. The photos on the article that show him with a purple blade are ones from other sources, every photo of his blade in the comics is red and is described as red in the novel. Also the cover of Jedi VS Sith #3 with Bane shows him with a purple blade only because of a color blend with the background, similar to what I had mentioned before. This has been a misunderstanding from Dark Horse Comics, and has been clarified as a color blending.
 * Darth Bane's light saber is at first has a curved handle and a purple blade!!!!! It says it is curved in the book Path of Destruction when his master gives it to him (either Kas'im or Quor'dis,is that it no thets wrong isn't it its not spelled right) and there is a picture in one of the coplete encyclopedias that it is purple!!! I think i know how you get a purple crystal you can get them from Ilem (or Elem or something) or this other person said you can combine instead of a bule and blue focussing crystal you can have a blue and a red. Remember: powere CELL focussing CRYSTAL the crystal makes the color. (i think :P) i don't read the comics, I don't trust them instead i focus on the books. For example i read the book Heir to the Empire and then i saw the comic/action figure pack and Mara Jade does not hava a lightsaber (then) and Mara even says that he (referring to Luke) was wearing the same black tunic he wore to Jabba's Ewokmenace 14:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace
 * OOPS I WAS WRONG IT IS OFFICIALLY RED WITH A CURVED HANDLE AWW MAN I WAS HOPING IT WAS PURPLE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE MY FAVORITE SBER EVER Ewokmenace 14:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace

Cyborg?
Is Bane a cyborg? Or are we counting the addition of Orbalisk armor as a sort of technology grafting? Cull Tremayne 06:14, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd say no...as the orbalisks are actually symbiotic lifeforms, not android or synthetic technology. QuentinGeorge 06:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Any objections on removing the Cyborg category then? Unless there some sort of other cybernetic alteration on Bane. Cull Tremayne 06:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No objection, Bane is not a cyborg. Darth Kevinmhk 11:57, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * But in the picture from Star Wars Gamer, he appears to have what looks like a cybernetic glove/hand.
 * Probably just an armored glove, not an actual cyborg part like a prosthetic. Lord Vatrir

New Book on Darth Bane

 * To be released October 2006


 * Check out Darth Bane: Path of Destruction


 * Check out Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction

Images
Someone removed several images that I felt helped the article, now we are short.

Main Image
I have nothing against the main image, but I'm wondering if there's anyway we could get a better quality of that image? Perhaps someone with the book could scan the cover, or something...--Sauron18 23:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC) I wish they'd just create a picture that didn't make him look like:
 * That's what we have right now. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]](Holonet) 23:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I know, which is why I'm asking of anyone who has the book if they could scan a better version of the image...--Sauron18 23:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, a higher quality scan would be nice, but can I say that Bane looks like a genetically deformed mime in that picture? What's with the eye make up, and the eyes that are at an almost 45 degree angle? I say put back the original pic, as the book cover picture reflects his ascension to Dark Lord, while the Jedi vs. Sith picture shows him right before he starts his Rule of Two. Don't most recent images (IU) receive precedent? And once again because Bane looks stupid and not threatening at all in that picture. Cull Tremayne 20:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd have to say he looks rather stupid in both of them. Bane isn't exactly one of those Sith who look like they can count...--Sauron18 01:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) An idiotic thug
 * 2) A mime artist

The comics go for the first extreme, Path of Destruction for the latter.(Ulicus 23:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC))


 * Oh, come on. Stop whining.  This is still very good art, and according to both sources we have he was well muscled and looked like- well, a thug.  Size and expression doesn't really indicate intelligence, which he had plenty of.  As for the mime thing, in my opinion it's only the makeup and doesn't really matter that much.  I mean- other than that, I pictured him that way in my head.  Since the book cover is better and less cartoony, we should have that as the main image and keep it however it is now with the other pictures.  As for the Orbalisk armor picture, that looks stupid.  He is purple for Pete's sake!  Sorry if I went off topic.-Vladius Magnum 15:30, 3 November 2006

I've been thinking, although the comic scans are indeed more "cartoony", the cover of the book in itself is not really that much more realistic as to be preferred solely for that. I'm okay with it, I have nothing against it, but I came across an image in the comic which I thought could be a good infobox image, even if it is the comic. --Sauron18 03:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Any thoughts? I'm just thinking that maybe we need one that illustrates more of Bane in a succesfull way. --Sauron18 00:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Sauron18 on this, this image I believe better illustrates how he is described at most points in the book, and the cover definately leaves something lacking, it just doesn't seem Bane to me, so if this comes to a vote I go for the comic panel pic  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 19:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the new image proposed is an awful lot better than the PoD cover image, personally. ( Uli Talk 18:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC))

Quotes
Someone should add some quotes in from the book path of destruction. Nice dude "The idea of answering to a Jedi masterdoesn't really appeal to me, I've heard some strange things about what they beleive in: no passion, no emotion. Sounds like they want to turn us all into droids." -Dessel Italic text Peace is a lie, there is only passion, throught passion I gain strength through strength I gain power, through power i gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. -code of the Sith (i've memerized it) " My parents were sold in the slave markets of Nal Hutta. That's where Master Na'daz found me." -Lord Kas'im ok these come out weird and i don't know why bear with me hereewokmenace
 * Done. (Ulicus 22:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC))
 * what about these

Height
Doesn't Bane tell the Republicans that he's exactly "two metres even" in Path of Destruction?(Ulicus 21:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)) yeah
 * NEGTC gives "1.9 m", indicating Bane is most likely rounding up for effect. Course, there's also the point that an individual's height changes over periods (and, sometimes in a single day). For all intents and purposes he's between 1.9 and 2 m. I'd be more inclined to trust an exact figure rather than a quote, I know I've quoted my height to people as various figures in a range of 10 cm or so. QuentinGeorge 11:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, thought it was worth asking anyway.(Ulicus 01:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC))

Talents?
should a telents section be added ? Jedi Dude 10:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, a Powers and Abilities section should be added. I'd be happy to make one.

I agree there should be a talents section 74.138.90.121 16:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989

I say yay (like opposite of nay) we need one of these for all the people <**>ewokmenace

Cleanup

 * There are spelling errors and tense problems all through this article. Can someone please do a cleanup? I'd do it myself, but I've only skimmed the article since I don't own the book yet and don't want to be too spoiled. QuentinGeorge 10:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've tagged this article for both cleanups. Please do not remove this tags unless you do so. QuentinGeorge 10:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I was planning on going through this article at some point (parts of it anyway), as it needs a fair bit of expansion and cleanup. I've expanded the "Early Life" section a little bit, though it's by no means finished (needs to mention Gerd's attack, the Sabaac game and Bane's flight from Apatros), and I'll try to go through/over more of it later... unfortunately, Uni is a harsh mistress and demands a lot of my time. (Ulicus 12:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC))

Bane's Spirit
His spirit? I was under the distinct impression that it was just the imprint on the holocron... Krayt is trying to gain access to Bane's (and Andeddu and Nihilus') holocron(s) and the gatekeeper(correct term?) isn't letting him because he hasn't been judged worthy. (Ulicus 13:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC))
 * It's a little unclear. It seems to be simply a holocron, but the fact that they aren't just recorded messages (they argue with him) indicates otherwise. The images, whatever they are, have consciousness QuentinGeorge 20:54, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Holocrons have been sentient for a long time now. The Essential Guide to Weapons and Tech says they've got their Master's personalities programmed in, to make an interactive learning tool. -LtNOWIS 20:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Do they have memories as well? Because they remember that Krayt's come before them before. QuentinGeorge 21:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It could be just the holocrons, but then why would Krayt go all the way to Korriban? Maybe it's a mix of the too. We should ask John or Jan when we get the chance --Sauron18 22:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Timeline issues
Didn't Leland Chee say that the Darth Bane book takes precedence over JVS? Kuralyov 22:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * He made a statement to that effect, but we don't really know what that means in the end. Drew was promising a blog on the differences and why they were done, and I'd suggest we hold off any balnket cancellations of anything one way or the other until we get more information. Havac 22:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I take it from this that Bane of the Sith the Hyperspace article is completely out of timeline, considering there are VERY large differences in this and the novel?  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 08:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I would encourage there to not be a three conflicting sources template added to this article. Bane of the Sith really doesn't conflict with PoD, except in POV. There are no glaring contradictions. The fact about Zannah not being mentioned has already been cleared up in the NEC, and that's the only thing I can think of. Qordis being his master is not an error. Qordis led the whole Sith Academy, so that's fine. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "Bane's remorse". He's not remorseful in Bane of the Sith, his masters want him to be, but he isn't. Also like I said, Bane of the Sith was already "retconned" in the NEC, so it doesn't need to be added as a conflicting source against PoD and JvS. Cull Tremayne 23:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Have you read the BotS article, it says alot more than just Zannah not being there, it says that he tried to warn Kaan against the thought bomb, and that Qordis was vaped with the thought bomb, if you read it closely you'll find quite a few issues with it, and in order for the bane story to go forward there will only be more conflicts, so I believe the Three Conflicting is warranted, but I will not add it again until I get some type of agreement from others  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 18:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Cull. Bane of the Sith doesn't contradict with either. And it doesn't say anything about "Kaan warning Bane of the thought bomb", and it only says Qordis died on Ruusan, not that he was "vaped by the thought bomb". QuentinGeorge 20:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

"He had told Lord Kaan the folly of his "thought bomb" plan, had disagreed with the tactics of such complete and destructive surrender."
 * Perhaps my mesage wasn't clear, BotS states that Bane warned Kaan of the Thought Bomb, PoD says that Bane fed the Thought Bomb idea to Kaan

- Bane of the Sith; on the Thought Bomb

""Excuses and self-justification," said the ghostly avatar of the dead Lord Qordis, who had been annihilated on Ruusan, like all the others."

- Bane of the Sith;on the death of Qordis

I will end my argument there I just wanted to make it known that I do pay attention to what I'm going through and am not just throwing out wild stuff, those are my two major reasons for wanting the Third Conflicting Source up there  N.Y.N.E. Comlink 05:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC) Bane of the Sith is hugely contradictory with Path of Destruction in terms of Bane's character. It's also pants. (Ulicus 15:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)) 1. It is the newest information on Bane at the moment making it arguably the most "correct". 2. If you look at past examples such as the Clone Wars every book containing much information about them claims that the clone masters tried to take over the galaxy, and that the Republic founght them, instead of it really being the clones were on the side of the Republic. 3. In keeping with the 'updates' on events, Boba Fett/Jaster Mareel is a good example. Origonally Boba Fett was Jaster Mareel; however, later it was declaired that he was not and that the short story containing this statement was 'null and void'. Again though it was changed Fett became Mareel by saying it was once an alias for Fett. 4. (I know some people won't like this) More times than not the books take place over the comics in canon status. Examples of this can be found on the Obi-wan, Darth Maul, Boba Fett, and many other pages. So I think it would be safe to say that the comics are probably out. 5. Finally in keeping with the fact that the sith are treacherous Bane probably would not have tried to keep the other sith from useing the 'Mind Bomb', unless you could say he was pretending to convince Kaan, when he knew his arguements would do otherwise. Ryan Fett 16:58, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The second is not a contradiction - Qordis was killed on Ruusan. The first may seem like one, but it is merely an internal thought of Bane's - his own self-justification, as it were. Neither issue is a major contradiction in the sense of the timeline problems between JvS and PoD. QuentinGeorge 06:23, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we should simply consider the novel to take precedence since it actually takes time to explain things in more detail while comics leave a lot more to interpretation. That said, the novel is, aside from more precise, newer and accepted by LFL, which in any case would make it a retcon of the previous events. --Sauron18 06:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Sauron on this, because of the level of detail offered in the book, along with the fact that the book is the latest of the publications, and the fact that it incorporates the stories from the JvS.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 14:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that Bane of the Sith should be rendered Infinities. Anderson's story has Bane attempting to warn the Dark Lords from using the thought bomb (when in the novel it was he that lured them into using it) and trying to preserve the Brotherhood of Darkness (whereas in the novel Bane vehemently seeks to bring about its destruction.)  The short story also has Lords Quodis and Kaan appear as spirits scolding Bane for being a coward and Bane feeling guilt over the incident that he claims he tried to prevent.  The novel, however, makes it clear that not only is Bane at this stage utterly devoid of emotions such as guilt, but that the Sith spirits could not have come back to haunt him as they were either utterly destroyed or trapped in stasis (until the time when Kyle Katarn released them years later.)
 * I don't think it's appropriate that the contradictions Path of Destruction created with "Bane of the Sith" are being ignored. The issues the book has with the comic reveal themselves to be primarily chronological.  Karpyshyn reworked the entire chronology of the series, yet practically every event is extant, albeit now in different places and at times different contexts.  The issues with the "Bane of the Sith", however, are more important thematic and character ones and these appear to have been swept under the rug.  Likely, Karpyshyn's Rule of Two will be the final nail in the coffin of this issue, but the evidence is clear even now to anyone willing to look closely at the novel and the short story.  The "two conflicting sources" listed at the top of this article should be changed to reflect this reality, and everything after the Battle of Ruusan should be marked as potentially non-canon.
 * I think it is a bit premature to claim all the events are non-canon;however they could be listed as haveing their canon status contested. The canon version will most likely be "Path of Destruction" and "The rule of two" for several reasons. However who is to say that "The Rule of two" will contest anything.

Dark Lord?
Isn't Bane a dark Lord? If so, Why isn't he on the Dark Lords list?--ShadowTrooper 23:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Edited a few spelling and grammatical errors out of here, but was too tired to go through the whole page. Oh well - something to do tomorrow. Silversaber 10:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Darth Bane
I don't understand why people make a big deal out of Bane. He jsut seem to be there, noot really important. I mean don't get me wrong he did create the rule of two, but that's it. George Lucas could have made anyone to do that. He really doesn't have a major part to the story. He didn't wipe out the jedi or anything like that. He barely fought them I see you point
 * That's the point. Where are all the Sith who fought the Jedi? Their names didn't exactly go down in history, whereas Bane survived long enough to forge the Order that ultimately took control of the entire Galaxy - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Changing the article name
Using precedent of the Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, Palpatine/Darth Sidious and Dooku/Darth Tyranus articles, since it is now canon information that Bane's name, before taking on the Sith title, was Dessel, this article should be moved to that name, not his Sith name. - JMAS 19:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The above mentioned articles are, as every article, under the name the character was most well known as / used later in his life. Neither of these apply to Bane. Charlii 20:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, that is not the case. Anakin Skywalker is most well known as Darth Vader and he went by Darth Vader until his death. - JMAS 20:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is not the case in Thrawn. His article is named as the Mitthrawnuru-impronunciblewhatever. - TopAce 20:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Check the credits of ROTJ - redeemed Vader is known as Anakin. QuentinGeorge 11:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Lumya article is based on her second (sith name too) The only Sith who have articles based on their real names are ani palpy and dookie. Those were all sith who had public faces and kept their sith Identity a secret. Palp was known by more people in universe and in more films as Palp the emperor. Dooku was known for being the count leader of the CIS. Ani was the chosen one- hero of the clone wars, and famous jedi knight. Precious few people knew that he and Vader were one in the same. Since he is a main character of all six movies and lots of expanded universe stuff, it might be hard to use his article in comparison to others.

For most other notorious name changers (Sith mandalorians, etc) the best known or last known seems to hold up. I don't know if this is official wiki rules, though. I am not an expert. I am not even registered. The Hand.

Saber color
What was Darth Bane's lightsaber color? In PoD, it is described as crimson, but in nearly all of the illustrations I've seen, it's been purple or blue. Telos 10:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

According to Dark Horse Comics, Dessel's lightsaber (Bane) IS crimson. The other pictures are purely coloring errors. Vezz801 19:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * it says it's red in Path of destruction<**> i have NO idea how i got purple stuck in my mind71.197.13.15 20:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace

Since a lot of illustrations and the action figure reveal a purple blade, should we assume that at some point in time he used a purple crystal? Spesh Belim 05:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

can someone plaese add a power section
I havn't read all the bane storys so I can't don't it but someone should.74.128.218.114 11:02, 1 June 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * I would if i knew how[[ewokmenace}}<**>

Question
Uh, why is there a section entitled "Lehon and the Holocron of Darth Revan" when that section does not even mention anything about Lehon, Darth Revan, or his holocron? Darth Revan's influence on Bane seems to be conspicuously absent from the article. I mean, there is barely any mention of Lehon and what happened at the Temple of the Ancients. Is there a reason for all this missing information or is it just that no one has gotten around to it yet? I hope this stuff hasn't been left out just because some people don't like Revan and DB:POD&hellip;--172.131.11.169 05:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. Due to a formatting error, some information was visible when you were editing the page, but not on the saved version. It had to do with the tags. Chack Jadson 14:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

unknown bane power
What was the power Bane used when he got all the sith together and and they combied there powers and attacked the jedi?74.128.218.114 10:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/8/86/Darth_bane_lightning.jpg

could this be a form of force drain? He channeled the sith lords force enegry thought him and and burned down the forest, similar to Exar Kun force drain on yavin 4 how the whole world caught on fire. Kopecz even said it felt like bane had his teeth on there throat.Tonyman1989 06:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989

Force drain is red (or possibly orange, i'm color-blind) and is more concentrated. It looks more like force lightning. Also, remember to sign your posts. Destroyer Droid 00:10, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Are there any other pictures of how he burned down the forest? I didn't think force lighting could be used in a ritual? does anyone have anyidea what it could be? Tonyman1989 06:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989


 * On the force meld page it says that in POD force meld was used could this be it?74.128.221.51 00:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989

Bane powers
I would like to thank who evenr added the section on bane powers, but I would like to know If I could add a few I was looknig throught the bane book and fould a few not mentioned on the page?

plus I think we should add a section about him becoming a force ghost It could'nt have been just the holocron because Darth Andeddu attacked krayt so I would like to add that.

any objections?74.128.218.114 10:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * No, go ahead. Chack Jadson 11:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

There I updated his powers please tell me if it is good enough.Tonyman1989 15:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989


 * what was wrong with what I added?74.128.218.114 16:08, 17 July 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989


 * I added this

"Darth Bane force push was so strong he was able to collapse the Ancients.

Bane knew many force rituals, inculding the thought bomb.

He was also able to use the force to pervent hunger, thrist, and sleep for two weeks.

He also show some ability to control mind, like when he controled the mind of a rancor."

I hope it's okay.Tonyman1989 06:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * What about the umm well hmmm Okay i know 1:all most all Force users can controll the weak minded including rancors, 2: that preventing hunger and stuff well he was running on the Force he was hungry and thirsty and tired yet he could go a lot longer using the Force than he could alone and life on Apatros was rough he probrably got used to it somewhat having to be tough to survive and i don't think Darth bane would be so powerful with out that holocron he found well with potential just no training 71.197.13.15 20:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace

Someone asked about the power Darth Bane had used during the gathering of the Sith in the Sith Wars. I've read Path of Destruction, and based on that I can tell you that what they did was use the Force Bomb (thought bomb?). A gathering of great force energy that is then released to destroy all life in it's path. Bane tricked the Sith into using it, and in so doing wiped almost all of them from existence. This was his plan, because at the time he had already decided that the Rule of Two was going to be the only way to save the Sith order. He knew it had become corrupted and was growing weak, so took this measure to rebuild it. He even goes so far as to mention that while it likely will not be he to restore the Sith power and destroy the Jedi, that someone else would do so in his place. It's presumed that he had a Force Vision and saw what would become of Palpatine and Vader.

Masters
Okay, let's talk about this conflict here. Should a holocron be listed as a master? I say no, because while it taught him, it's not alive. Thoughts? Chack Jadson 11:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I say no, Because a holocron can't "teach" you, I see it like reading a book the book doesn't teach you, you learn on your own.74.128.221.51 05:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * i would consider darth Revan (is it spelt rigt?) for he was the one teaching the stuff in the holocron to Bane right71.197.13.15 20:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)ewokmenace

Contradiction
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction doesn't contradict Jedi vs. Sith so much as it reworks the entire body of it chronologically. Once that's understood, it's clear to see that read in the chronological sequence of the novel, almost every aspect of the comic mini-series is intact (excluding elements like changing arrows to blasters which is arguably relatively minor.)

However, contrary to the wishes of some, the novel does appear to render Kevin Anderson's short story Bane of the Sith Infinities.

1) In the novel, Bane hands Kaan the thought bomb knowing he's going to use it to destroy himself and the Brotherhood. Bane's very intention is to wipe out every last Sith on Ruusan, save for himself and his apprentice. In the short story, he "told Lord Kaan the folly of his thought bomb plan, had disagreed with the tactics of such complete and destructive surrender" and was disappointed no one listened to him.

2) In the novel, Bane comes to disdain the Brotherhood of Darkness because of their policy of equality and their united attempts to destroy the Jedi. He saw such a concept as flying in the face of the dark side which favors only the strong. In the short story, Bane laments that "The other Sith Brothers had fought among themselves rather than planning a strategic victory over their true foes... He had had enough of ... Lord Kaan's "rule by the strong."

3) In the novel, Bane trains under Kasim and Gitany and succeeds to the top of the apprentices, defeating Sirak (the top student) and being named Dark Lord by the masters. Quordis has had nothing to do with him until that moment when he awards him a lightsaber crystal as token of his success. In the short story, Bane trained directly under Quordis who accuses him of never finishing his training.

4) In the novel Bane ruthlessly seeks out the destruction of the Sith lords and is far beyond guilt, remorse or fear of them (he'd already killed several masters personally.) In the short story, "the accusing spirit of his Sith Master made even the burly Sith Lord's resolve turn to cold water."

5) In the novel, the thought bomb created an unnatural sphere which imprisoned the Sith and Jedi caught in the cave on Ruusan. In the short story, every Jedi on the planet was killed. And the Sith were not imprisoned as both Quordis and Kaan's sprits go to haunt Bane aboard his ship.

6) In the novel, when he finally meets Lord Kaan he recognizes he's a madman and detests everything about him and his Brotherhood of Darkness to the point of plotting its annihilation. In the short story, "He hoped Kaan's avatar would assist him, but even without its sinister aid, Bane would do everything possible to resurrect the Sith Brotherhood."

7) In the novel, Bane discovers Revan's Sith holocron on the planet Lehon. It's at this point that he decides to destroy Kaan and the Brotherhood and begin the Rule of Two. In the short story, it's not until he travels to Onderon and discovers a Sith Holocron (and he seems to not recognize what it is) that he decides not to resurrect the Brotherhood, but begin a Rule of Two. 8) In the novel, he chooses Rain to be his new apprentice. In the short story, he is still looking for a new apprentice.

The biggest difference is that Anderson's Bane escaped from Ruusan when his warning to Kaan to not use the thought bomb went unheeded. So the dark lord spirits call him a coward and traitor for running, and Bane's defense was that the Sith had to survive. His intention (until he gets to Onderon and finds the holocron) is to resurrect the Brotherhood, and laments that his former masters fought amongst themselves instead of uniting to destroy the Jedi. Karpyshyn's Bane is completely different in structure and character. He comes to detest the Brotherhood after studying Revan's holocron and the ancient records where he realizes that the Sith can never be united, equal or have a brotherhood. He sees the dark side as being diluted because of it, and thinks that only the strong should command it in one vessel, with an apprentice to crave the power and later take over and continue the tradition. So he plots to destroy the Brotherhood by giving Kaan the formula for using the thought bomb and feigning to join them under the guise of wanting to take over leadership. When Kaan goes off to use it, Bane knows he's succeeded and discovers young Rain his new apprentice.

They stand as two completely disparate accounts that cannot be reconciled (despite the NEC's attempts to address point #8 above by saying Bane forced Rain to find her own way to Onderon.) --JB 8:04, 9 October 2007
 * Good work. I'll add some of this to the article. And yes, there are big contradictions.  Chack Jadson  Talk 22:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I prepose a different view...perhaps Darth Bane was lying? Maybe to spite the foolishness of the Brotherhood. It would be in his personality. Perhaps, like he did with Githany and Lord Kaan before, he pretended to be oh so distraut by it all, but really was reveling in his victory. Thoughts? Darth Byss 01:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd thought of that, but several problems assert themselves. First of all, what are the spirits of Quodis and Kaan even doing haunting Bane?  Their spirits were trapped in the wake of the Thought Bomb and not freed till millennia later when Kyle Katarn came upon the Valley of the Jedi.  But even if it could be argued that they escaped, Darth Bane would have no reason to lie to them.  They pose no threat to him.  And there's nothing from them that Bane wants -- Of course, according to Anderson's short story he's chilled by them and wants Kaan to lead him to the holocron on Dxun...which provides yet two more points of contention since the short story makes it appear that he's: a) never seen a holocron and b) hasn't conceived of the Rule of Two idea until he obtains the Dxun holocron, both of which we know aren't the case.


 * Perhaps they "attached" their spirits to Bane... Qordis for revenge and Lord Kaan, because I can't imagine he would be using a thought bomb without knowing what would really happen; merely in life he desperately wanted to believe that his sith were strong enough to survive. Perhaps he saw the truth, that Darth Bane, and not he, was the proper Dark Lord. Lord Kaan may have seen that and perhaps attached his spirit to Bane as well to avoid his doomed fate. Speculation of course, but the only way to keep BOTS in continuity is for them to either elaborate on Kaan's story, perhaps explicitly stating what I have theorized, that Bane was putting on a show and that wouldn't be unbelievable considering he fits a profile of a psychopath and may demonstrate certain habits such as taunting those they feel inferior, even when unnecessary. But still, I think a retcon, personally something along the lines of what I suggested, because it would new dept to Bane as a manipulative and cunning being. Still...it is speculation and should be taken as such. We will see if they fix the issue in Rule of Two. DarthMalus 19:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

this could have been great
ya so i read the book hoping for greatness but apparently they did no research of the star wars universe because they said the sith were using vapaad form 7 which is about 1000 years to early for it to appear being created by mace windu this book also screws more of the time line of star wars up and it just all around pisses me off well thats mt 1 1/2 cents
 * The vaapad thing was a typo. The other problems, though, have troubled other people, as well. jSarek 11:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The vaapad line is likely being (or has been) changed for future editions of the book. As regards the timeline, there's no problem at all with it once it's recognized that Karpyshyn rearranged all of the Jedi vs. Sith chronology for a more logical development of Dessel into Darth Bane.  But every scene in the comic still occurs (just in a different order.)  If you want to see how Jedi vs. Sith might now be read, check out: http://www.timelineuniverse.net/CoverGalleries/CoverGalleries.htm#Jedi%20vs.%20Sith%201-6

Bane's Height
Bane's height has almost certainly been retconned from 1.9 metres to 2.

Though it's correct to say that he could have been rounding up for effect when talking to the ensign, when Bane meets Kopecz, it is written:


 * "[Kopecz] stood nearly two meters tall, easily the largest twi'lek Des had ever met... though not quite as tall as Des himself."

1.9 metres isn't "nearly two metres", it's a full 10cm (4 inches) off, so one can safely assume that Kopecz is 1.95 at least. And, since Des is taller, it can be safely assumed that Des wasn't rounding up for effect.

The height should be listed as 2.0 metres, with the reference pointing out that it was changed between the publication of the Guide and PoD.( Uli Talk 17:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC))
 * You can fix it yourself, surely? That's what a wiki is for. QuentinGeorge 01:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I generally don't like to change stuff without prior discussion. Unlike the masters issue, below, this seemed less clear cut.( Uli Talk 18:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC))
 * It's now canonically 2 meters even in Rule of Two, first page. Can someone change this? (It seems to be locked.) 207.172.86.83 15:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I changed it (that IP is also me; I initially couldn't log in for some reason). David139 15:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Bane's Sith Masters

 * Most of his learning came at the feet of Qordis and the other Masters: Kas'im, Orilltha, Shenayag, Hezzoran, and Borthis - PoD Page 82 (Hardcover)

Shouldn't Orilltha, Shenayag, Hezzoran and Borthis therefore be added to the list of Bane's Sith masters? Though they eventually turned their backs on him, forcing him to rely on Kas'im and Githany, they were amongst his masters to start with. ( Uli Talk 18:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC))
 * And, yeah, the above quote also proves the stuff in the "contradictions" section about Bane not having studied directly under Qordis is wrong. Bane studied directly beneath all the masters of the Academy, just like every other student. (Until Sirak beat the snot out of him, anyway)( Uli Talk 02:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC))


 * You can also fix this yourself.
 * Which I'm sure you noticed is exactly what I did near-immediately after writing the above. Or, rather, I'm sure you would have noticed had you not been so eager to jump down my throat. I brought this up on the talk page to discourage reverts. ( Uli Talk 18:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC))

Easy Way to Get Banned

 * Righto, the next person to add Darth Revan and/or his holocron to the "Known Masters" field will be banned for one day. You have been warned. QuentinGeorge 01:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

contridiction resolved
the contridiction between jevi vs sith and path of destruction has been resolved. apparently the Jedi who didn't accomapny Hoth into the Caverns retreated off planet before the thought bomb went off. this is mentioned in "Rule of Two"

Type of Jedi/Sith
Was Darth Bane (canonically, or what you feel he should be) a Consular, Sentinel, or Guardian? Just asking.

Re: Type of Jedi/Sith
Those are in-game titles of specific Jedi ranks. They do not apply to the Sith.

Tommy 07:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)Tommy9281, 01/02/08 2:43am

Spoiler
Can someone remove the spoiler tag? Rule of Two has already come out. Darth Oompa Loompa 21:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Wait, I've done it. Darth Oompa Loompa 18:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Why was bane nerf?
on wikpedia before the book was relased it said that only bane had live thru the thought bomb and that the bomb killed everyone on the planet. whats was the reason for the nerf?User:Wolfguy Blood 20:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What?  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Whats a nerf? Darth Oompa Loompa 21:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Darth Bane's Holocron
In Rule of Two, Bane had his Orbalisks removed prior to being able to complete his holocron. Why then in Legacy is his Holocron's Gatekeeper an image of him with the Orbalisks? ~Darth Nikolai
 * Good observation. The problem is that Legacy was before Rule of Two, so it's an OOU problem. Be interesting to see if LFL makes a retcon for this (or if anyone there even catches it).  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he kept the armor that kept the orbalisks from taking over his limbs, so it just looks like he still has his orbalisks on.