Talk:Meetra Surik/Archive3

Why the crap is the Jedi Exile a female
Seriously, what were they thinking when making the Jedi Exile canon.
 * I could ask "Why shouldn't she be female?", but the talk page is not meant for that kind of discussion. Charlii 20:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * talk pages aren't meant for this kind of thing, and to be honest your sexist crap isn't needed anywhere, talk page or discussion boards. Jedi Dude 20:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't even bother asking why. Not only do most people here think it was a good change (myself NOT included), but they aren't going to change it back, unfortunately enough. So there's no reason to complain here. (To answer your question, no I do not know what they were thinking) MPK 02:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * According to LFL, the Exile is female. Get over it already.  StarNeptune Talk to me! 02:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * JediDude, do not call me a sexist! I'm serious! I hate it when some kid over the net acuses you of being something.
 * Please, this is not a forum, whether you get it/like it or not is irrelevant to the article. If you want to voice your opinion that's what a forum is for. --Sauron18 01:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Dude, you just repeated what everyone else said.
 * Yes, because you hadn't listened. --Sauron18 01:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Obscured by a lightsaber (2)

 * 1) Ozzel 06:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) BaronGrackle 09:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) QuentinGeorge 09:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) As long as it's not a pic of her in her undies...  StarNeptune Talk to me! 10:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 5) Conceals her skin color, eye color, hair color etc. which have not been canonically established yet... and it's a damn nice image full of action, just the way we like it. KEJ 10:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 6) &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 12:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 7) Shinin 12:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 8) Though I woulda been fine with the first lightsaber obscuring also. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 12:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) 70.71.202.54 00:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Obscured by a Force power

 * 1) Sikon [ Talk ] 06:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) I take it we're assuming that the Exile wore these robes as well now. Jasca Ducato 08:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Snoop 18:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Underwear 1

 * 1) I'd vote for either of these, or even for a picture of her in any clothes from the face down. I just don't like having her face clouded by some Force bubble or whatever. Kuralyov 06:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * yep, agree, but this one is better ]:-> SkywalkerPL 10:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Underwear 2

 * 1) Though I think we should remove some color. Master Starkeiller 08:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

If female Exile is canoned...
Will this article start refering to her as the canon female, like the Revan article does with the canon male preferance? And what art work will be used in the photo?


 * Sure, why not. Jasca Ducato 18:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes it will (I'll take care of that :)). However, Obsidian's promotional picture will probably be left, as it's the only known image of the Exile. - Sikon 17:01, 8 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sure someone can donate a photo (or in our case, a screenshot) (maybe myself, if no one else wants to) of a possible female Exile, and then we can edit any other article that mentions the Jedi Exile accordingly. - DAWUSS 7:19 PM 30 Jan 2005
 * If the female gender is canonized, then I'd suggest using the female face that they show in the little booklet you get with the game. Whenever they show the user in example screenshots, the face is that of a blond woman.Cull Tremayne 02:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

If that's the case, perhaps they should use the name of the female character they use in the booklet: Lysira Naris.

I like lightside male better.
 * Erm, ok. Jasca Ducato 19:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I kinda like the light side male story also cuz the story line with the Handmaiden and Atris is very interesting. User:24.209.197.137 20:45, 5July 2006 (UTC)

"Can't we just pick light side male by default until it's decided by an official source?" -MPK


 * well, apparently its confiermed as canon, hes a female :P we need to sort the article and pic out. Jedi Dude 20:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Jedi Dude: where at? Randy Starkiller 20:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Look at the bottem of this page, apparently its in the New Droids guide. Jedi Dude 20:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd like confirmation from someone besides an anon before we change anything. - Lord Hydronium 20:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * well, it looks like hes defoo a she. Jedi Dude 11:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, in the opening, Sion says that the Exile is "one last Jedi who has yet to choose HIS true role in the galaxy." Jedi Striker 22:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) (actually added by User:24.209.197.137)
 * What opening? - Sikon [ Talk ] 08:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, dude, the opening of the game, where Sion tells, "We have all but destroyed the Jedi Knights. The Old Republic is crippled..." That opening, remember? --User:24.209.197.137, 20:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sion never ever says that. The correct line is "And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead. Save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the horror that is to come." If Sion did say that, please give me the location and I'll look it up. Though it will prove fruitless since it might either be that you aren't setting Exile to female or the devs forgot to an extra line where he says "her". They did the samething with Revan. If you set Revan to female, the council scene will still refer to her as a male (though the holograms say different). And take the word "him" lightly, male terms are typically used when a gender isn't specified. Sion isn't going to say "him/her"... --Redemption 00:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe the user is referring to the trailer, which does indeed refer to the Exile as a male. Here is the video:


 * http://youtube.com/watch?v=A_ejqgr-7JE&search=KOTOR


 * Nevertheless, this trailer, like most erroneous promotional material for KOTOR2, is not canon.--Sauron18 01:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Not only that, but it's full of inconsistenties. The heads are all KOTOR I, M4-78 can be seen...and that isn't even Sion's voice. --Redemption 01:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The trailor also shows men as the exile almost all the time. And when u pic a character the first choice is a man. I personally think that it should remain anonomous. But If it is canonized I think we should listen to what the GAME says, not the opinion of some idiot who wrote a book.
 * Hey, guess what? Exile is female. Books are more canonical than game mechanics. Newer sources override older ones. And I really should give you a cool-off ban for calling Dan Wallace an idiot. -- Darth Culator 01:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Newer sources override older ones? So what if a book was wrote and they said luke skywalker was a Female and fell to the darkside?? Then that is what is cannon? I don't think so. Flint-007 01:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course it wouldn't override that, because movies override all things. And the Exile is canonized as female, so we have to except it. One cannot pick and chose their canon, that's movie purism. -- SFH 01:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Now you're just being obtuse. Look at the article on Star Wars canon and come back once you understand the difference between C-canon and G-canon. Within the realm of C-canon newer sources generally override older ones, but nothing overrides the movies. And player selectability is a "game mechanic," which isn't canon. Also, cannon go "boom!" -- Darth Culator 01:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * So instead of listening to the source that originaly created the damn character, we listen to what some writer wants it to be. It's the same damn thing as what I wrote above. Flint-007 01:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not the same thing. If anyone thinks that Obsidian Entertainment or any of its employees are 1/1000th as important as George Lucas, then they have serious delusions of grandeur. Hence the difference between G-canon and C-canon. C-canon gets rewritten on a regular basis, the movies do not. If Obsidian or their fans don't like the Exile being female, that's just too bad. That's the danger of working for Lucasfilm. Game developers don't write the canon, Lucasfilm/Lucas Licensing does. If they wanted the character male, they should have forced the player to be male. As far as Wookieepedia is concerned, The New Essential Guide to Droids has set the policy for us. Any attempts to change the Exile's gender to anything other than female on any article will be considered vandalism and the editor will be banned for up to a week. Attempting to argue the point will be the same as arguing with a brick wall. -- Darth Culator 02:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * First of all that ratio is incorrect because George Lucas didn't write the book. Second, it would be the same thing if bigshot Dan Wallace wrote that Kyle Katarn was a shemale. So would we all beleive that?? No. Flint-007 16:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I was using George Lucas as an example of the difference in scale between C-canon and G-canon to illustrate why your first example was dead wrong. I'm not surprised you didn't understand that. Your second example is also wrong because Katarn's gender is cemented in canon by the game storyline, which the Exile's gender wasn't. If the developers wanted the Exile to be male, then that was a pretty stupid decision on their part. The Exile's gender was canonically fixed by the NEGD. No other explanation or justification is required. -- Darth Culator 17:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * She's a she! Thatis it and that's that. And that how it is and the way it is. KEJ 16:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No, the developers didn't want the exile to have a certain gender. SO WHY DO WE GIVE IT ONE?!?!
 * It's easier to implement in novels in comics that way DAWUSS 21:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And we didn't give it one. Look, I'm not happy about giving Jaden/Revan/Exile a canon gender but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. If we just ignored that the book says "heroine" then it'd be like sticking our fingers in our ears and going "LA LA LA LA". Unless another book says that the Exile was male (and it'd need to do so very specifically considering how he is used when gender is unspecified) For now, deal with it. --Redemption 21:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Because, and that's the point people constantly miss, it's not the KOTOR II developers who run Star Wars. - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:11, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, what book are all of you talking about? The instruction booklet? If so, then that's rediculous 'cause in case you didn't notice, the book for KotOR I had the player as a female named Juhani. Yeah, not very reliable. If you're not, please tell me what you're talking about, 'cause I could've missed something... 168.103.70.82 06:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, nevermind. I see. 168.103.70.82 06:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok I was playing KOTOR II TSL and came here to see what was canon. I personally do not care what gender but I found this. Taken From: http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-2/534268p1.html as well as KOTOR II TSL

As KOTOR II TSL begins, music begins to play as the LucasArts and Obsidian logos appear, then fade into black. An ominous voice starts a voiceover, "We have all but destroyed the Jedi Knights,"

"The Old Republic is crippled, they can do nothing to stop us now."

"But there is one thing standing in our way,"

"One last Jedi, who has yet to choose "HIS" true role in the galaxy."

"If "HE" joins us, on the path to darkness,"

"Those who fight alongside "HIM", will follow,"

"But if "HE" takes the path of the Jedi,"

"those that join "HIM" will feel the vengeance of the Dark Side." Darth Aeonz 00:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Too bad that doesn't hold much considering thats two years old while NED is only a couple of weeks old. The latest one decides it. Just accept it and get on with your lives. --Redemption 00:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Besides, Chris Avellone said well before the game was released that the trailer had nothing to do with the actual game plot, and it was a conscious decision. Therefore, the trailer is non-canon to begin with. He also said that the voice was a temporary voice not used in the game. - Sikon [ Talk ] 04:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Female!
This news made my day DarthMalus 04:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Meh. We don't need a female PC for TSL just because the first one was male. Too bad the lack of need doesn't change anything. -MPK

Well, MPK can you start signing your posts right. if you do ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces it does it for you. and having a female chracter helps to bring more balance to the canon community + more females may be entiched to start playing games if they know women are having there share of parts to. Jedi Dude 16:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The vast majority of people who play this game are males, that leaves many people ver angry. It's all because of this "women's rights" stuff. What do they want next? The right to vote? Ignoring the trollish comment above, I'm just going to say that people should just deal with it, you don't have a problem with Mara being a female do you? Or Leia? It's no different, except you didn't know what it was in the beginning. --Sauron18 00:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Vast majority? Do you have statistics? Most KOTOR fan fiction writers are female, for all I know. And why do you oppose the women's rights movement? Alert! Alert! We have a sexist here! - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you live, but women have had the right to vote in North America (don't want to speak for other countries) since the early 20th century. o_O  StarNeptune Talk to me! 05:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally, I thought that Revan was far more interesting as a woman and the Exile's story made more sense as a man, but unfortunately none of us own those characters and Lucas Licensing has the last word on the subject. I'm just happy that one of them is officially female. There just are't enough strong women in Star Wars...-- Sentry &#91;Talk&#93; 06:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Bah, the Exile was male, they just wanted to keep someone happy. Everyone knows it, I don't care what the Essential Droid Guide states, the Exile is male. Some of us wish for a black or asian main character and it doesn't happen.--Lark
 * Apparently the idiot who made the New Essential Guide to Droids thought that we need a female main character just because the KOTOR 1 one was male. MPK 02:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what did you just call Dan Wallace? I didn't quite hear. And if you assume that it was his sole decision, you're fundamentally wrong. - Sikon [ Talk ] 06:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Last time someone did that (a little bit back up this page), I said I should have banned him. We need an explicit policy on that. Insulting authors=bad. Questioning authors or disagreeing with authors=good, but insulting is bad. -- Darth Culator 11:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I apologize for saying something you don't agree with. Perhaps I will keep opinions of mine that are not popular with others to myself in the future. -MPK 18:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It is LFL's decision, not just one person's, and it's official, whether you like it or not. Criticizing it on a talk page is both useless and inappropriate. And Remember:


 * "Freedom of the press is not a license to slander." --Sauron18 19:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Alignment
The Exile is described as a heroine in the NEGTD. Malachor is said to have been destroyed; this only occurs in the light side ending. The canonical ending is, therefore, light side. - Lord Hydronium 09:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) "..Holo-cron and crew hadn't made the decision on which ending/gender was canonly correct. I just wanted to know Vips, do we know yet?" "Not yet." "While an Exile gender determination is imminent, there hasn't yet been a call to determine which ending is to be considered canon."
 * Yea, but the Exile was described as a hero in previous books and look how that turned eout. Look at the archived history of this talk page and you'll see. Jasca Ducato 09:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it turned out that it was confirmed in this book. I fail to see how that negates it.  And that doesn't address the Malachor point. - Lord Hydronium 09:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hero can also be used for female beings, and thus causes no problems. The Exile is female and was a light sider. If you attempt to revert the page a further time then you will be breaking the three revert rule and I will be forced to ban you. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, no i will not be breaking the three revert rule, because my reverts are correct. It doesn't decide whether the Exile was light side or dark side because, as Chee has said, it has yet to be decided and "will not be decided in the near future" (i think that's it). As for Malachor, i don't have a clue what your talking about! Jasca Ducato 09:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Jasca, I'm afraid you're incorrect. This clearly establishes the Exile as LS. QuentinGeorge 09:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

- Leland Chee

While I want to see an LS Exile, I think the word "heroine" isn't sufficient. I previously thought that the NEGD proved that Exile was LS by confirming that Malachor V was destroyed - something that only occurs in the LS ending - but now it seems that there's nothing in the book said about its fate, except that it was the place where the HKs destroyed G0-T0. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) Can someone clear up EXACTLY what is said in the NEGtD in regards to information that could indicate alignment? anon 05:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There you have it, the Exiles alignment has not been determined. No i would revert it again but seeing as you'd proably ban me for illegal reasons i will not, unless it isn't done soon. Jasca Ducato 09:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It was to be decided in the future, as it has now in the New Essential Guide to Droids. You will be breaking the three revert rule and I will ban you, as your edits are based on old, false information. Additionally, the NEGtD states that Malachor V was destroyed...this happens only in the light side ending, as the planet survives in the dark side ending. More proof that the light side ending is correct. As I have said...change it again, and I will ban you. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Show me a quote saying it was to be decided and i'll relent. But until then... Jasca Ducato 09:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The VIP's at that time said "not yet" and that there "hasn't been a call yet". That statement, however, was several months ago, before the New Essential Guide to Droids was published. As it has now been published, and the Exile is called a heroine, she is now a light sider. Try asking the question to the VIP's again, and I guarantee you that they'll say she was light side now. And once more, you have failed to address the Malachor V issue. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As for the Malachor V issue, if the book supports a LS ending (which doesn't make it canon, seeing as they called the Exile a male in previous books) it would say that. They're not stupid enough to put contradicting infomation in their workings. They're not gointg to call the Exile a hero of the Republic and then say that she wen't on to become DLOS! are they? Jasca Ducato 09:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And if what Sikon just said is anything to go by then we cannot hold the book in any contempt whatsoever. Since, if i remember correctly, the HK's engaging G0T0 was removed from the final game, and thus not canon. Jasca Ducato 09:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's in the book, it's canon. The book itself establishes canon. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Romance
Since this has been canonized should we add a section on her love life like Revan's page. "Already you presume much."
 * Love with whom? Atton or Mical? Or maybe neither?

- Kreia

- Sikon [ Talk ] 11:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We don't have enough info to determine what is canon but i bet we will when kotor 3 comes out --Dumac 18:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it should have the romance side of when your a male, too. - 70.71.202.54 01:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Then go for it. I wrote the Carth romance in the Revan article. Should be fine as long as you state that it's not canon. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 01:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Quote?
OK, before I even get to the point, I want to say that I do not want to cause a 10,000 line debate about something small like this. I PROMISE this has nothing to do with the gender of the exile because we have seen that 9.9*10^37 times already.

What does anyone think of the quote (from Kreia)

"They look at you and see the death of the Force. I look at you and see the hope for the Force."

Apologies if this quote is slightly incorrect. I don't have the game screen in front of me and am relying on my less than perfect handwriting. I'll update in a day or so with the *perfect* version.

Atarumaster88 18:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC) "When I look at you, it is like staring at the death of the Force."
 * Whoa...way wrong.

- Kreia

--Redemption 00:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Gosh darn it! This is not what I am looking for- but I'm going to have to find the exact quote from the game- which means more talking to that old hag. Thanks anyway redemption.

Atarumaster88 14:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the quote you're looking for is from Disciple, and it reads: "And where they look at you and see the death of the Force, I look at you and see hope for all life." - Sikon [ Talk ] 14:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

That's it! Thank you Sikon. Now that that's settled, does anyone think it's a decent quote?

Atarumaster88 16:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I certainly do. Please don't put your signature on a separate line. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem. Atarumaster88 17:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * So . . . what should we do now? Do we change the quote? Do we do nothing? What is the will of the community? Atarumaster88 14:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's been a few days- I think I shall the change the quote and someone can change it back if the community does not like it. I am taking responsibility for this one. Atarumaster88 15:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Well, the quote was removed by Redemption. I understand three quotes is too many, but I still think Mical's quote is better than either of the two quotes. I don't seem to get much response from the talk page though. Atarumaster88 14:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * For a general "catch all", summing up the character, your quote is better as it cuts to the core of what makes the Exile "unique in the GFFA". So what if someone removed it? Just put it up again. Having two quotes at the top just looks ugly, much like with the Revan page.


 * Having said that, just a quick correction, the actual quote is: "and where they look at you and see the death of the Force, I look at you and see the hope for all life."


 * Though it could be "Whereas they...", I only remember the last sentence properly... I think. (Ulicus 04:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC))
 * It's definitely "and they", I'll look at dialog.tlk to see if "the" is present. - Sikon [ Talk ] 06:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The quote is in place- there might be a word or two off. My previous mistake was leaving the original two quotes. That problem has been dealt with. Atarumaster88 14:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, just read through this entire section properly - looks like Sikon had already corrected the quote. Oops! Sorry guys. I just get a bit over zealous sometimes :) (Ulicus 14:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC))
 * No big deal. We all make mistakes. Atarumaster88 14:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Having finally played through the game, I must say I agree this quote fits the best. When I played as a male, though, Visas had this line. Does the Disciple say it if the Exile is female? -BaronGrackle 09:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The quote was my idea. Yes, Disciple says it if the Exile is female. Whenever you get that final "romance" scene toward the end of the game, for a female, Mical says it to the Exile. I played female, but I saw the male version also at that scene and Visas said it to the male Exile. As the female Exile is canon, the quote is attributed to Mical. Atarumaster88 12:59, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Exile as Knight
On Wikipedia, it says the Exile is a Jedi Knight now, not a padawan. Not a big deal, but I thought it could be a quick change. User:24.209.197.137 23:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * she was a padawan...Jedi Dude 17:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, my friend, I have played the game numerous times and not once does it say anything about the Exile being a Padwan before, during, and after (KOTOR II) the Wars. If you show me specfically in the game where she is a padawan, I'll agree, but for now, Wikipedia says she's a Knight.  User:24.209.197.137 22:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

It never mentions the Exile previously being a padawan in the game. I don't think that a padawan could have been a general under Revan, anyway. >.>

Amazing
Deleting my text..... Jobe457 14:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't believe you wasted precious seconds of your life to tell us that. -- SM-716 [[Image:716chiss.gif]] talk? 17:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it DOES matter what a character's gender is. There has to be a specific canon status, no matter what.MPK 01:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it does matter. Some want the Exile to be Male and others want to be female. Realize that I am not the fool Larkin above, please, and thank you. I don't care but the beginning in KOTOR II is specific but this new book makes such a big deal of it... General Larkin 8:16, 19 July 2006 (EST)
 * Actually, it's almost impossible to discern the gender of a character when someone says "him/he/his". True, they could say "Him or her" but that just doesn't sound good or proper. When the gender isn't specified, properly, him/he/his is used in place. The book doesn't "make a big deal" about it. If anyone is making a big deal, it's the people who want Exile to be male. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 03:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Atarumaster88 14:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Geez. Can we say beating a dead horse? If you need to see every possible angle of the Exile gender discussion, there is plenty of it to go around on this talk page and on the archive. The issue has been pretty much resolved by different users and admins.

So Sikon, here's my response: Yes, but why do YOU care? Revan was canonized as male, and I think K1 has the upper hand, here. What more could you WANT? The gaming world is DOMINATED by males. Very RARELY do come across a good female gaming character. Especially in Star Wars. Now I'm not saying that Exile SHOULD be female, because it doesn't matter. It's an RPG. If you want your character to be male, just make him male! If you want your character to be female, just make her female! Stop ranting to the rest of us and trying to modify official canon with your own fanon. It's been said, decided, it's a done deal. But fanart and fanfiction still exist. The game itself still allows you to pick male, doesn't it? Make do with what you have. We know it's not fair that LA is trying to decide the gender of our own characters. But that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Just don't poke the rest of our eyes out by screaming and whining that Exile should be made male. Tough, alright? If you want a good, canon male character, go look at other games, or go over to the Revan page.
 * What Atarumaster88 said. LA said Exile is canonically female. The books say she's female. If you wanna go and write a story where the Exile is male, go for it. No one's stopping you. Just, for god's sake, shut up and deal with the fact that no one cares. K2 wasn't the best game in the first place...
 * If you don't care, it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. - Sikon [ Talk ] 02:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It was a bad idea, true, but it's also true that there's no reason to debate it any longer. Kinda defeats the purpose of this post, doesn't it? :P MPK 16:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind that I'm trying to maintain a level, balanced position between "Eixle should be male!" and "Exile is female! WOO!". Being female myself and noticing that women, as characters in games, are either total sluts and stupid, or just terrible characters, I can't help but feel pleased. But that doesn't mean I don't respect game mechanics. The game gives you a choice, and you can go with whatever you wish. It wasn't even very good, compared with K1, so the characters shouldn't even need to be compared.
 * Well, trolling anon, I know I shouldn't respond to this, but just so nobody gets the wrong impression: From what I have seen, and this page shows, Sikon have defended the canonization of the female Exile since day one. Not necessarily because he like it but because canon is canon. He has in no way tried to impose his "personal canon" on anyone. Charlii 18:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Speaking of ranting . . . (see above)- I think there has been quite enough ranting about issues that are irrelevant to the life or even the greater Star Wars universe. And as far as opinions about the game's quality are concerned, there are far better places to discuss them then on an encylopedia site. Atarumaster88 23:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Protect this page from ALL users?
Apparently just blocking unregistered or new users isn't doing much to stop the vandalism done to this page. Just shield this article for awhile and save the trouble of having to revert it several hundred times whenever there is a vandal. -- Redemption Talk 22:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's tempting, but there are other people who edit this page for good reason. -- SFH 22:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Give it a two day warning before closure for people to make finalizations on the article and then shield it then. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * FWIW, this last stretch of vandalism seemed to be a single person using an open proxy (which I blocked), so it was probably a repeat vandal obsessed with wiki disruption rather than a fanatical belief that the Exile was a guy. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk)
 * And an open page which is controversial among fans is like dangling a piece of meat in front of a starving lion. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But if we locked this page, he'd just go on to other pages. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 22:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not just to protect it from vandals. It's a combination of people who honestly think the Exile was a guy and idiotic vandals. We know that the Exile is a prime target. Might as well secure it. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * i think to face the truth protecting one page won't help, the vandal will hit elsewhere, the exile page is one of those pages constently being improved, we just have to overlook the negative edits Jedi Dude 22:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC) 22:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But really, how much more information are we going to get on the Exile? Perhaps a little something from the comics (once a month) but that's unlikley. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * but theres ways to improve an article, no matter what, specially an article revolving around an importent chracter, Jedi Dude 22:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That's why I say give a day or two forewarning before actually shielding it. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * it doesn't work like that, if people right now knew what they wanted to do to improve it they hopefully would, ideas come over time so you can't just expect people to be done with an article already. Plus any new users could be frightened of if they see articles like this blocked, it simply isn't worth the hassle. Jedi Dude 22:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If someone dares to protect this article, I will spam the talkpage with goatse links. (Okay, not really...) - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * so the article got protected? its kinda of weird how the person who did it didn't take our views into account... Jedi Dude 14:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's just the anon-protection that has been active for some time. Charlii 15:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Disputed Romance

 * Okay, I really did look on this talk page before posting that {dispute} tag, but I do not believe there is a canonical base for Atton's romance with the Exile. Sure, it's possible within the scope of the game. It's also possible that the main character makes Atton hate her (or his) guts. It's possible that, in an individual's game, that Atton walked around in his underwear punching enemies like an idiot or never left the Ebon Hawk. So, having just played the game, I do not see where Atton is the one and only romance. If other options- pertaining to Mical- were listed, and the section was classified as non-canonical, I would be suitably mollified. I could have done that myself, but some things deserve to be talked about before being added. Sorry for the length. Atarumaster88 01:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Some very important content about this romance around the end of the game was cut and ths unfortunately not canon, but it remains obvious througout the game that Atton's attracted by the Exile, wether she's light or dark. I don't know what you mean by "canonical source" but the game itself makes it very clear. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to dispute about. Petiflo 10:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah the canonicity of the romance isn't something that's disputed. Debated, possibly, but as said above, Atton clearly has a romantic interest in the Exile, and possibly Mical and Sion too. DAWUSS 22:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh...the only reason why Atton is the only one there is because I never wrote (though I intended to) the Mical and (now) Sion sections...oops. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 16:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * All is well. I just wanted to make sure Atton was not the only romance listed above- with only him listed, I felt it was unclear whether or not the romance was reciprocated or whether he was the only one. Thanks Redemption. Atarumaster88 02:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

You are all pathetic.
Personnally, I am disgusted that so many people feel the need to impose a narrow, defined description on a character, whose appeal is largely created by the very vagueness of their identity. The lack of a gender, name, and conoical face for the exile is what allows all players to enjoy her/him equally. The fact that all of you are so obsessed with labelling this character with defined characteristics and then forcing those characteristics upon others, is nothing less than grossly arrogant and self-serving. I feel nothing but the greatest sense of disgust for you people and lament to see you reduced to the level of squabbeling politicians haggeling over details. Also, I find Mr. Chee's role in furthering this conflict deeply embarassing and wish that he would instead lobby to keep the exile genderless for everyone to enjoy accordin to their own desires, like Jaden Korr. I can only pray that in KOTOR 3 the player is allowed through in-game conversations, like with Atton about Revan in the beginning of KOTOR II, to determine what gender the exile truly was. Sion15 Sion Sion
 * the reason why the gender was made was not to oppress peoples choice but to make the chracter more real in the eyes of many, you assume everyone is happy with using their imaginations, some people like things to be fixed which undermines your whole argument, which itself is as you say pathetic. Jedi Dude 22:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If there is a KOTOR III, I'm sure you will be allowed to fix Revan and the Exile's gender, and fix whether they were evil or not. All the same, the canon which will be used in further reference books, and therefore part of the main canon, will still have Revan male, the Exile female, and both of them lightsiders.  Some ending to the story has to be picked in order to sensibly integrate it into continuity, and the writers can only avoid using pronouns for so long.  And two or three years after KOTOR III comes out on PCs, some reference book will set its protagonist as either male or female, and probably set the light side path as the canonical story.  Then we can have this argument all over again. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 22:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * i look forward to it =P Jedi Dude 23:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * How about not? Do you really think they will implement 16 options (and $$4^{n}$$ options for KOTOR n)? - Sikon [ Talk ] 04:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Jedi Dude, you have no idea what your talking about. I'm saying that everyone has the right to choose their own way of veiwing the open-ended video game characters, and your idea that I'm oppressing others who like defined things is moronic. People who can't use their immaginations don't deserve to be called Star Wars fans, because Star Wars is imaginary in the first place, genius. And I hope Silly Dan is right, but still, from what I've seen, no one writes much about the Jedi Exile anyway.
 * Sion, I completley agree with you that it's a stupid move of Leeland Chan and the NEGD to make a canon Exile and Revan (if a story needs to make either them present then that's when you make it canon) but unfortunatly, that's the way it goes. I'm not happy with either of the decisions but the saying goes, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. No point in discussing it any further. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 07:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Look, nothing's stopping either of you from imagining the character as anything you want. For LFL (and us here at the Wookieepedia) a canon definition is required so the character can be used for other stories - outside of a video game. QuentinGeorge 07:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I imagine now that Anakin Skywalker never fell to the dark side. Should they comply with such an imagination, or should they have the right to have their own vision of Star Wars history, which the fans should respect, not vice versa? - Sikon [ Talk ] 07:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * To close this topic I would like to adress the points raised by Redemption and QuentinGeorge, Sikon too. First, Redemption is right that is the way the cookie crumbles and I guess we will all just have to accept it and move on. Next, QuentinGeorge is also correct, and I think I will personally still regard the Exile as male regardless of the canon. And Sikon, your insolent petty remarks aside, George Lucas created that foundation of the Star Wars universe, but he didn't create any of the games and the gender of the exile has no major bearing on the games outcome, unlike Annakin's fall to the dark side, which is the basis of the whole Star Wars saga you idiot. Finally, I would just like to say that the only reason I really perfered the exile as a man was, because I thought the story flowed better, and that the Handmaiden was a deeper character than that 2D boy scout, Disciple (loser).
 * I'm sorry, but we have a "no personal attacks" policy. If you continue to make such statements, it can result in a cooldown block. And please learn to sign your posts properly. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * He should be blocked for having made no contributions bar this talk page (where it is specifically stated that this is not the forum to complain about the Exile's gender). QuentinGeorge 09:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, there's a notice forthisrighton top of this page, so get over with it and if you have further complains, make them to LFL. Petiflo 10:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Calm down... Besides resorting to a personal attack, he hasn't done anything forbidden yet. - Sikon [ Talk ] 11:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Complaining about the Exile's gender despite the warnings AND calling you an idiot is allowed then ? Petiflo 11:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * it just makes me laugh that after "reduced to the level of squabbeling politicians haggeling over details." thats exactly what is happening again, because of Sion's statement. You say if you don't have an imagination you are not a star wars fan, what a very very closed view, its as you say moronic And no matter what all your complaining is simplt that, the exile is female, its a canon fact now and your moaning will not change it, so there is no point what-so ever. You say Jaden Korr is genderless? Last time i checked he was well a he. Jedi Dude 11:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * First off, all of you need to chill out. I feel like Kanye West after Katrina saying "Bush doesn't care about black people." I was simply voicing an opinion, which is the purpose of this page I assume, and I apologize to anyone who was offended by my language, sorry for exercising the First Amendment. But I would like to offer Sikon an apology for my losing my cool, it was done in a moment of anger not rational thought. In response to Jedi Dude, I just want to say, I'm not complaining that the Exile shouldn't be female, because I'm a sexist, I simply feel the male story arch was better developed. As for the whole thing about assuming that you must have an immagination to be a Star Wars fan, yes you do need one because these are fictional stories. If you want reality, watch a documentary. Also I would greatly appreciate if you refrained from telling me how to speak or what to speak on in the future, as I fail to see how your opinions, misguided as they are, outweigh my own. Sion15
 * do you read what you write, hypocrit. How are my misguided opinions better? Because i do not resort to petty personal attacks thats why. Your going the right way to being blocked by admins. Jedi Dude 22:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "I was simply voicing an opinion, which is the purpose of this page I assume, and I apologize to anyone who was offended by my language, sorry for exercising the First Amendment" First off, that is NOT the purpose of this page. This talk page (like all others on this wiki) is for discussing the content of the article, not complaining that the Exile is female (did you not see the big template at the top of this page?). Also, the First Amendment doesn't apply on this wiki. Besides the obvious fact that not everyone here is an American, we have rules against insulting other people. If you don't like it, you are welcome to leave. If want to complain about the Exile, the Jedi Council Forums and the offical Star Wars forums are better places to do it.  StarNeptune Talk to me! 01:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Xendor's Minions, are we going for THIS argument again!!!??? Please let this be the end of the whole gender/canonicity/anything like that debate! There's like 6 topics that say many of the same things! JediDude, whether Sion be a hypocrite or not, I think you will metaphorically kill more flies with honey than vinegar- not that Sion is a fly. Atarumaster88 02:13, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This conversation is over y'all. I just made a statement and everyone blew it out of porportion. I just stated an opinion, which I stand by and nothing more. And Wikipedia has no right to restrict what I or anyone else talks about here. Except name-calling which I conceed was a mistake. As for y'all, you just need to chill. Epecially you Jedi Dude, your rude comments and Name-Calling (hypocrite)( come on admistration where's the warning for this one?), are not needed here.Sion15


 * There are so many things I could say to that, but in the interest of stopping this pointless and borderline rude "discussion," I won't. Let's just say that many arguments could be avoided if people would not lower themselves to name calling and other irrelevant bashing. Wookieepedia does have the right to stop speech considered slanderous. Thus, this topic ends. Atarumaster88 15:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)