Talk:Palpatine/Legends

Archived talk: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4

Question
In an interview with Film Review magazine in April of last year (which can be viewed here), Ian McDiarmid explains to the interviewer that, regarding Palpatine: "I am categorically assured by George Lucas, and he’s the one who knows, that he’s dead." Would this then negate all of the stories of Palpatine surviving, since Lucas' word is G-canon? Adamwankenobi 21:55, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Lucas himself was actually praised Dark Empire, so I doubt it. -- SFH 21:57, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe the guy who plays Palpatine thinks he died at Endor, but in-universe, he survived alright. Admiral J. Nebulax 22:55, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Palpatine is dead... He was killed by Empatojayos Brand on Onderon. So what he told you was true...from a certain point of view - Kwenn 23:00, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * It depends on what death. Admiral J. Nebulax 23:04, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * No, he isn't dead. He's just trapped. When you estabilish a character to be immortal, trapping him is the only way to go. --Master Starkeiller 21:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, as far as the Galaxy at large knows, he's dead. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:50, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * &mdash;"There are things that go beyond the understanding of a space pirate."
 * &mdash;Luke Skywalker http://forums.starwars.com/share/img/emoticons/wink.gif http://forums.starwars.com/share/img/emoticons/wink.gif http://forums.starwars.com/share/img/emoticons/wink.gif http://forums.starwars.com/share/img/emoticons/wink.gif --Master Starkeiller 22:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, still, those who don't understand this probably believe he's dead. Admiral J. Nebulax 01:04, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Order 66
Did he give it once, like the book says, or did he really give it to all the commanders, individually? The book was better than the movie - Yoda1300 17:22, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * My guess: Palpatine issued the command to Commander Cody personally because he wanted to make sure Obi-Wan was dead and buried. Then he just sent it out to various corps commanders and let it trickle down to the troopers at the front. It would've taken him days to personally give out the order to every single clone commander in the galaxy. --AdmThrawn 17:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's true. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I wrote that part of the article, and I can only tell you that the ROTS young adult novelization (p. 122) says he contacted each commander individually. I totally agree, that's a whole lot of work to do, but if the book says it happened, shouldn't we consider it canon until another book says otherwise? Erik Pflueger 03:47, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * How many commanders are there? Do we know?--DannyBoy7783 06:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd say a lot. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader mentions Olee Starstone finds evidence that at least 200 Jedi were killed during Order 66, so that would imply a similar number of commanders - though there may have been multiple Jedi on some worlds, a la Yoda, Quin and Luminara with Gree on Kashyyyk, or Barriss and Aayla with Bly on Felucia - Kwenn 20:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, how many divisions were there that are commanded by commanders? Admiral J. Nebulax 20:37, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Article size
For those of us on dial-up, this page is entirely too large (140 KB takes over a minute and a half for me to load). I was wondering if we could break it up wikipedia-style -- i.e. under one or two of the larger sections have a summary and link to a new page. This failing, could we at least trim some of the pictures (such as the two images of Palpatine with basically the same pose -- look under "abilities and traits")? Thanks. RMF 04:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed before, and it has been decided numerous times not to do so. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:31, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Numerous? I thought it was only decided once.  I still think that splitting the bio off to another article wouldn't hurt, but I think RMF and I are the only ones who like the idea. &mdash; Silly Dan 22:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It was definitely more than once. More are in favor of keeping it as is. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I could only find one discussion on archive 4 of the talk page. (I'm not counting the discussion on Talk: Darth Sidious where we decided not to have separate articles on Palpatine and Sidious.) &mdash; Silly Dan 13:20, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, before the latest one, there was another one a while back... Perhaps someone deleted it. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * One vote was actually on Erik Pflueger's article prose, but it was essential a vote on the article's length...Good thing it was a vote, because most of the admins wanted to change it. Palpatine's article was saved by democracy. Ironic. -- SFH 20:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow. I'll say. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Once again, I'm in favor of shortening this article. Length, writing, images, everything. At this point adding or removing images is a chore because you have to switch every image after it. Many of them are very similar as well and could be removed. It's just too long.--DannyBoy7783 20:46, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not another damn vote... Admiral J. Nebulax 20:47, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't ask for a vote. I noticed the topic came up again so I'm responding. A number of people think this article needs to change. I'm simply voicing that opinion.--DannyBoy7783 20:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It wasn't in response to you, DannyBoy. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:51, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok--DannyBoy7783 20:52, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying that votes appear to be the only way to solve a problem on this page now. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * For good or bad, they tend to get more users involved.--DannyBoy7783 20:58, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not the point of a vote, though. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:10, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I assumed the point of a vote was to get users to give their opinions on an issue that was no longer progressing via discussion.--DannyBoy7783 21:17, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it doesn't seem like that anymore. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes a number of people have stated that there article should be shortened. A larger number has said the article is just fine on two separate occasions. And the second vote, mind you, was, as of the 27th, three weeks ago, so lets cool your ion engines, okay? -- SFH 21:26, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A larger number. See? If there was to be a vote, the outcome would remain the same&mdash;keeping it as is. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Making it larger: It's fine as it is. --Master Starkeiller 22:48, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * See? This article won't be split. Admiral J. Nebulax 23:34, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

"Triad Of Evil"
Palpatine knew that the end was near, and gave the majority of the galactic capital defense fleet to take down a "triad of evil".

Um, maybe I haven't gotten enough sleep, but that sentence makes no sense to me. Thanos6 20:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it does. He knew that the CIS would strike at Coruscant, and he sent a lot of the Coruscant defense fleet to attack three CIS-held planets, planets Palpatine called the "triad of evil". Admiral J. Nebulax 21:07, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Then we need to say so, because that was incomprehensible to me. Thanos6 22:20, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, then. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Alderaan WMDs
Er... where does this information come from regarding Palpatine's irrefutable evidence that Alderaan is developing weapons of mass destruction (line 418, or 416, or something like that)? Is this really something that was written, or is someone just trying to create more George W. Bush parallels?Cutch 17:59, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It wasn't WMDs, just weapons, I believe. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:04, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it definitely says "weapons of mass destruction"... and, as we all know, some people get very up in arms about the definition of WMDs. Should we change it to read weapons? Also, again - where does this come from? Cutch 22:05, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Change it to weapons. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I read about it in The Essential Guide to Planets and Moons. The term they used was "Bail Organa's biowar virus". That fits the WMD definition in my book. -- SFH 00:56, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, then, no change. Admiral J. Nebulax 01:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, folks, I was the one who put that bit in, and it was based off of material from the Galaxywide NewsNets articles from the Star Wars Adventure Journals of the 1990s. All subsequent references to this were based off of these articles. As for the Bush parallels, I'm a Republican, always have been, and I voted for Bush twice. As such, I'm hesitant to make such parallels unless the material clearly says it does, just as I'm hesitant to put any of my own junk in unless the material says so. That certain writers (Luceno comes foremost to mind) have made such parallels in the GFFA is clear (Department of Homeworld Security as a stand-in for guess-what?), and cannot be dismissed, but even that doesn't mean they think Bush is no better than Palpatine; they may have been using the language of our time to make their stories more comprehensible to the reading audience, just as I did when I used the phrase "weapons of mass destruction" (and who can deny that's what bioweapons are?). No such parallel, either direct or indirect, is present in the films themselves, and in any case, the broad outlines for the prequels were laid out in the 1970s. For this reason, a superb case can be made for Lucas basing the story of Palpatine in part on Richard Nixon (Lucas has repeatedly said as much), but far less so on Bush (he's not said this, and, according to some, has even denied it). Erik Pflueger 08:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Does it really matter? :P -Danik Kreldin 08:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't like the idea of having something saying that Bush was similar to Palpatine. I still think that it should be removed if Lucas never said anything about it. Admiral J. Nebulax 12:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I sympathize with you, believe me. I remember moving the "political inspiration" section around just so I wouldn't have to see Bush's name sitting right next to Hitler's. So I changed the phrase to just "bioweapons" and reworked the grammar accordingly. It's actually more precise that way, anyway. If anyone wants to make a Bush parallel, let them, but I won't make it easy for them. ;) Erik Pflueger 21:23, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks better now anyway. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Bush's name seems very appropriate next to Hitler's to me. As long as it is mentioned, it's fine. 'Cause to some people, including me, the parallels are crystal clear. --Master Starkeiller 15:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, 'Keiller, that's just going to have to be one of the rare occasions where we disagree. Strongly. As always, you're free to have your opinion. When I get some energy (I'm recovering from a stomach virus... Ugh!), I'll be happy to discuss the matter, but on your personal page. We're so immature if we bog down this discussion page with this done-to-death topic. Be good out there! ;) Erik Pflueger 19:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Stop by my page any time. It's always a pleasure to call Bush names (I will present my reasons for doing so of course). --Master Starkeiller 12:58, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sigh... I'll just keep taking the high road here... ;) Erik Pflueger 15:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Come on, no political debates here. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Jack. Erik Pflueger 21:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Damn you, Bush! Quit ruining the universe! --Imp 21:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow... I really threw a turd in the punch bowl, didn't I? Cutch 21:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to say this earlier to avoid a political debate, but, since one is occuring... I'm not for Bush either. Admiral J. Nebulax 23:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't really been following this discussion until now nor am I too familiar with this extremely long Palpatine article but I noticed that Erik said the following: "I remember moving the "political inspiration" section around just so I wouldn't have to see Bush's name sitting right next to Hitler's." I don't know how much of a tie there was between Bush and Hitler in the article before you moved it (in other words, an anti-Bush comparison) but I would strongly urge all wookieepedians to not rearrange material in favor of one side or the other. Like I said, I don't know what the article was like before so I'm not accusing Erik of wrong doing here. I'm simply saying that if the article was shuffled to avoid that connection and it was legitimate then that's no longer a NPOV. This is more a non-specific public service announcement more than anything. Oh, and boo on Bush! ;)--DannyBoy7783 23:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * We have really shifted the topic of discussion from "Bail Organa's biowar virus" here...But in this topic; my only comment is this: While I have a low opinion of President Bush, I feel that the politics of the real world (particularly those of the United States) are too divise for this Wiki to handle. We get into enough spats over what to put into articles (especially on this page), so why bring in more? My advice for this is to look to the example of Odan-Urr: “The galaxy will live in tranquility if certain matters are a bit overlooked or left unheard”. What I'm saying is, let's just ignore it. -- SFH 23:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I second that motion...Cutch 00:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. Let's stop it here. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:20, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * All right, I'd just like to clarify that by saying what I said I didn't want to ignite a political discussion. If anyone wants to talk about Bush, he's free to visit my user page or invite me to his. I also agree that this has no place here. Ummm... Move along, move along... http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/4.gif --Master Starkeiller 18:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Good. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:11, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

THE MOST POWERFULL FORCE USER OF ALL TIME
..."As Anakin, he had the greatest known midi-chlorian count (a measure of Force-aptitude) in the Galaxy, surpassing both Yoda and the Emperor's count. However, after all of his limbs were severed and he was severely burned on Mustafar he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Anakin was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful". George lucas said so himself....Anakin was the strongest force user of all time but he never got the chance to tap into his full powers...if he ever reaced close to his maximum potentail...god help us...he would have destroyed both the emperor and yoda together

Retrieved from "http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Talk:Yoda"
 * Yeah... but he didn't. I think you need to stop worrying about how big people's "force power percentage" was. --Imp 14:22, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You also have to take into account training and wisdom. A simple force power percentage doesn't necessarily make someone better or stronger than someone else.--DannyBoy7783 21:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. A youngling could end up to be a very powerful Jedi, but only with the proper training. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

OH MY GOD!!!

 * I made a terrible mistake and the page was ruined! Someone with the power to revert please do it! I'm terribly sorry... --Master Starkeiller 15:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, someone's undone it already. If something like that ever happens again, all you need to do is go to the history and find the page before your edit, then you click edit and save :) YIIMM 15:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried it, doesn't work. It only allows me to edit the current page. --Master Starkeiller 15:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you misunderstood Starkeiller. In the future should that happen, go to the history page, lick on the date for the previosu edit so it brings up the older page. Click edit, then select all the text and copy it. Then return to the article, select edit, erase what's there and paste in the text you copied. Then save.--DannyBoy7783 23:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

THE MOST POWERFUL SITH LORD OF ALL TIME
Obviously the candidates for this are Darth Sidious and Darth Revan
 * Okay, 1) completely uncalled for and unnecissary, and 2) this would be better on the Sith article if it was important and did not involve one person's opinion. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:13, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * And Jibers, please stop posting your "What if?"s now. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

So how's about a new character box?
I saw a new format for a ship box at the Executor-class Star Dreadnought page, and thought it might be a good idea to try a new, sleek, updated character box for our hero. Incorporating the picture we all like, and using the up-to-date information from our current box, I gave it a whirl.

Arguments in favor:

1.) Adding the birth and death dates in the box may make the opening text less cluttered (I wanted to put the HoloNet News date for his birth in, and here seemed good. Please let me know if you disagree).

2.) Doesn't the color just go perfectly with Sidious' saber blade?

Of course, I didn't put it into the article yet, and I won't if I don't get the sense that it would be welcomed. But I put the sample here for you all to judge. So, what'dya think, folks? Erik Pflueger 04:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Shiny. I say go ahead and put it in. Saves alot of time if someone is looking for a few basic specifics without having to read through it all. Redemption 04:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's nice. Two comments -- the main is one that we are trying to shy away from individual infoboxes on most articles for a variety of reasons. We have had a variety of discussions about this lately, most recently over at Consensus track/New ship and vehicle infobox templates. Still, it's a good design, and we could use it as a template for all character articles, given few modifications. With our new templates (see Template:Ship and Template:Planet) we can "auto-hide" fields that we do not know, making it possible for us to create an in-depth character template that could cover any number of possible options. I agree though, the pl/plfs have got to go ;-). My second (and really minor) comment is that I don't particularly care for the term "Usage" for the last section. I think we can do better than that. RMF 05:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Awesome. --Master Starkeiller 10:07, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Far more superior. Admiral J. Nebulax 12:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * My mention of color brings something else to mind: should we change the colors depending on affiliation (i.e. red for Imperials and/or Sith, blue for Rebels and/or Jedi, another color for Fringe characters like smugglers, bounty hunters and such?) Or, perhaps, should every box, character, ship, planet or other, have the same color scheme? I wouldn't really mind if the colors for the Palpatine box were the same as the new blue-gray ship templates going around, since it was that template that got me interested in this question in the first place. Can we have some admins speak to us on this? Erik Pflueger 18:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I like that idea, Erik. Red looks good for Imperials. Admiral J. Nebulax 18:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)