User talk:Bo Shuda/misc

Re:Citing
1) It is not a comprehensive article. 2) You cannot source the intro, per WP:S. Thank you,  JangFett  (Talk) 14:22, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ideally, you need to include a biography. You can source in there and in the behind the scenes.  JangFett  (Talk) 14:26, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Warwick Davis, baby!
Return of the Ewok is a bit tricky. As far as I know, it's not actually an officially-licensed Lucasfilm product. Post-production was never done by Lucasfilm, and it was never officially released --- it was only screened by Davis at one of the Star Wars celebrations. It even won a fan film award. You're right in that there's never been any site consensus on the matter, though. If it were to be included in an "Appearances" section, I'd argue that it should use Cut instead of Nc. But I think that even that is a bit of a stretch. Menkooroo (talk) 13:29, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Honor Guard
Hello Bo Shuda, honestly I do feel like it's an unneeded detail, and also those who read the Galen Torg article can get that information. See for another example the Yutani article here and the way it is now, which does not involve namedropping all the characters around him during his scene. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 14:54, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Murttoc
To be honest I don't have access to that book. I was informed that he appeared in that by Sompeetalay IIRC. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 22:57, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good to know. I'll update the article when I get the chance. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 02:20, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Do you know if that is considered an official source? If so then hopefully it can be found and added. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:19, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Too bad many Hyperspace subpages are just gone with no archive links. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:32, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey Bo Shuda, just wanted to let you know that as Bantha Tracks is just a fan newsletter, it is not a licensed source, and thus regardless of whatever newsletter Murttoc Yine appeared in, it does not belong in his sourcelist. However, if it was among the articles that were featured in Star Wars Insider 41, then it would be among his sources. Otherwise, those issues have no place in articles' sourcelists. Thanks. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:29, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Jess
However, a subject should be linked once upon its first appearance in the article's infobox, once upon its first mention in the article's intro, and once upon its first mention in the article's main body. As such, Human, female, and musician should be linked in the intro, and Bib Fortuna should only be linked once in the body. Also, [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Manual_of_Style#Human_and_other_sentient_species nonsentient creature names must not be in capitals unless dictated otherwise by canon. Hence, writing "Rancor" instead of "rancor" is agrammatical]. Thank you. Trip391 (talk) 05:40, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Snit
I've moved this to Droopy McCool for you. In the future, if the title you want to move a page to is a redirect to the page you want to move and has no history (i.e. the history page only shows one revision), which was the case here, you can move it over top of the redirect yourself without getting it deleted first. Deletion of the target title is only needed when it redirects to a different title, is not a redirect at all, or has more than one revision. (This misunderstanding is not uncommon among new users, so don't feel as if I'm accusing or reprimanding you. Just keep this in mind in the future.) &mdash;MJ&mdash; Holocomm 00:39, September 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then please talk to him and sort it out. I don't know what's going on (beyond seeing the CSD tag).  JangFett  (Talk) 01:19, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Thul Fain
Well the Unidentified Lamproid (Jabba's court) article is a card-created character whose image shows them on the Khetanna, even though it doesn't explicitly say the Lamproid was there during the Carkoon battle. Should the same thing be done with that character? Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 03:36, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Request
Hello Bo Shuda, it seems that you have good attention to detail with those Jabba's palace characters. Could you help me locate all the times we can see Ardon Crell and Rennek? I know Ardon can be seen when Boushh threatens Jabba with the thermal detonator, and also when Leia is caught trying to escape with Han, and I know on the Khetanna too. Rennek at the very least appears alongside Palejo Reshad, at least the first two scenes, not sure about the scene showing Luke's arrival/Rancor fight. Thanks in advance. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 22:47, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Shadows of Endor
Hello, Bo Shuda! From your recent edits, I take it that you already have Shadows of Endor, haven't you? Since I'm the original nominator and current guardian of Charal's article, I intend to update it as soon as I can, but I haven't gotten Shadows of Endor yet. Can you just tell me whether her role is important? --LelalMekha (talk) 00:22, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I also happen to be the nominator and guardian of the Talisman of the Raven and Sanyassan articles. That being said, I'm surprised that the Sanyassans aren't in Shadows of Endor. After all, Charal is supposed to have lived with them for about 100 years at the time. Is this ever addressed in some way? I'd troubles me a little, continuity-wise. --LelalMekha (talk) 00:34, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, we know for certain that Return of the Jedi occurred after the Ewok movies, since when Wicket Warrick first met Leia Organa, he remembered his previous encounters with Humans, including Charal and Catarine Towani (per ROTS junior novelization). --LelalMekha (talk) 00:56, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * They're not mentioned by name, but it's pretty clear that the text refers to Charal and Catarine: "Stepping closer, he saw she wore a helmet that revealed a human face. Wicket had encountered humans before, and the face reminded him of an adult woman whose family’s star cruiser crash-landed on Endor. Then he remembered another woman, an evil shape-shifting witch, and shuddered at the memory." --LelalMekha (talk) 01:09, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Teebo's not the only one. Most Ewoks have had very different appearances depending on the source. Logray has no less than three designs! (Oh by the way, are the Wisties featured in Shadows of Endor?) --LelalMekha (talk) 01:26, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Since I'm also working on the Wisties, it seems that I'll have loads of work. But it won't be easy to access Shadows of Endor here in Belgium. I'll do what I can. --LelalMekha (talk) 01:37, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Zrani
Hello, Boshuda! Could you please check the Zrani article? It was recently expanded by some anon, but the events that were added there suspiciously look like those involving Izrina in The Cries of the Trees, and not Zrani in Shadows of Endor. --LelalMekha (talk) 19:05, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Endor timeline
Hello again! Just to let you know that I asked Zack Giallongo about the timeline of Shadows of Endor in relation to the rest of the Ewok material. Here is what he answered: "The two Ewok movies take place before ROTJ during the 8-month period between "Shadows of Endor" and "Return of the Jedi". So, the timeline can be seen as Shadows of Endor > Caravan of Courage > Battle for Endor > Return of the Jedi. Shadows of Endor also helps explain why we don't see the Duloks in the later stories. Hope that helps!" --LelalMekha (talk) 19:17, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Bantha Tracks
Hello Bo Shuda, it was known as the Official Star Wars Fan Club Newsletter, which I think means it was not official source material, just letters for the fans. And on Facebook I had this discussion with Menkooroo, and he and I both agreed and thought that only the Insider article counts as a source, with all other ones being "unofficial." Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:40, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Caption contests
Hello Bo Shuda, I have discussed those recent caption contests you've been adding, and those belong to the external links section, not sources. Thanks. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 19:39, November 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm I've never been aware of such external links sections being "ruthlessly deleted." Yes External links are officially accepted by the Layout Guide. I wonder if the thing you remember was the purging of the CUSWE links, which was a result of the CUSWE subpage of theforce.net becoming obsolete. And I've seen the articles on the RotJ Imperial Advisors using another one of those Caption Contests in their External links section. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 02:18, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good job finding those things btw. I was also wondering where that image of Rayc Ryjerd and Palejo Reshad (used in Reshad's Yodapedia article) came from, as I knew it was not the film. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 02:37, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * So you feel like Romba is a different character from the "Mourning Ewok?" It seems Leland Chee has confirmed that to be Romba. And to be honest, I'm not a big expert on the Ewoks, nor do I know who is. Maybe SavageBob, as he is an expert with the Ewoks cartoon stuff, though I'm not sure if his knowledge extends to the RotJ Ewoks. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:16, November 16, 2013 (UTC)

Despot
I understand how you can take my edit as snide, and I don't doubt that that was partly the intention, for which i apologize, but you caught me at a bad time. To be honest, you actually remind me of a previous user with which I have particularly hostile interactions over a length of time, which is likely the source of the antagonism from last night, and for that I apologize. I was particularly busy at the time, and did not appreciate being questioned or have the time to do the appropriate research, and I tried to put the entire affair to bed quickly when I saw you create a "spectacle" - something that has been done previously with my nominations/works and is a particular sore spot for me. After further consideration, I don't find any evidence for the definitive start date, so I hope we can put this toniest and move on. Cade   Calrayn  21:12, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Fenri Dalso fanon
If a source does not explicitly state that someone is Human, then it is against Wookieepedia's policies for us to state that they are. Even if they may look Human, there are other species they may be. Besides Wookieepedia's official policies which are against simply speculating when writing articles. "Wookieepedia is an encyclopedia, not a publisher of original thought. The threshold for inclusion in Wookieepedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source, not whether it is true. Wookieepedia is not the place to publish your opinions, experiences, or arguments." He is also only shown wearing a suit of armor with a helmet, further masking the identity of his species. While at one point the article may have stated Human, Wookieepedia is not a source in and of itself, and with Fenri Dalso in particular if check the article's history you'll see that the article originally cited as saying he was humanoid, since Star Wars Galaxies did not state his specific species, and the article was later changed in error. Wookieepedia is not a source, and information should only be used if it comes directly from the original source material, which Fenri Dalso's species does not. Trip391 (talk) 09:05, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not dispute this I was simply trying to avert an edit war between yourself and said user as it appears that no one explained to this to the anon user in relation to this specific edit conflict. Bo Shuda (talk) 09:14, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * My recent changes feed is a minute slow, so I didn't see your second message before I sent that one and logged off. But yea, Jang did explain to the anon, specifically when they were using this IP, a couple days before this IP's second block for fanon. Trip391 (talk) 11:02, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Recent Edits
Hi Bo, I think you misunderstand; I was saying exactly the opposite, that short story and song titles are mandated as not being in italics, but in quotation marks. This should apply to music videos as well. Regarding periods and quotation marks, it is widespread U.S. convention to always put periods (and commas) inside quotes, regardless of where the quotes fall in the sentence. (This style may not be entirely logical, but few things about English are!) This convention varies in other English-speaking countries, but as Wookieepedia policy is to follow U.S. convention, unless the Wookieepedia MOS says otherwise, this is the style that should be used here. Asithol (talk) 09:19, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * From what I can gather there is no actual U.S. convention as it appears both ways in numerous published journals. I simply go with what is logical on a case-by-case basis. But anyway.... Can you point out where in the MOS/Layout it is specified that short stories should be in quotation marks? I can't find it anywhere and numerous featured articles actually follow the opposite to what you are doing... Bo Shuda (talk) 09:32, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Certainly: the "Citation" section of Wookieepedia's MOS tells us to use Modern Language Association citation format. Unfortunately, the MLA Style Manual and Guide to Scholarly Publishing, which covers these kinds of details, does not appear to be available on the web.  But with some searching, you can find numerous online examples of MLA style.  In general, italics are used for titles that encompass smaller sections (books, magazines, albums), and quotation marks are used for titles of these smaller sections (chapters, articles, songs).  These conventions are fairly widely used in other style guides besides MLA, as well. Asithol (talk) 10:10, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, as to periods and quotation marks: APA style, MLA style, and Chicago style&mdash;the three most widely followed style guides in the U.S.&mdash;all mandate periods and commas falling inside the closing quotation mark. Certain published journals may break from this convention, but most will usually follow one of these three styles.  In addition, Wookieepedia's MOS says, "Per standards of American English... the period (full stop), comma, question and exclamation marks should be within the quotation."  As this does not accurately reflect U.S. standards regarding the question mark and exclamation point, this statement as a whole is somewhat dubious, but it's pretty unambiguous on the period and comma. Asithol (talk) 10:34, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I think I should respond to the discussion about Melina Carniss on the talk page, so that any other interested editors will have a chance to weigh in. Asithol (talk) 09:28, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Asithol. If you are going to continue to change appearances/sources between italics/quotations and vice versa may I remind you that Wookieepedia policy only requires MLA for citations. Not the Appearances & Source lists or article text. I think you may need to take this to the forums to have the Layout Guide/MOS amended to specify that short stories and song titles should be in quotation marks as there actually isn't any policy mandating what you are doing; only the citations that appear in the Notes and References section. Also of note is that MLA is virtually non-existent internationally as Harvard & NPA are the preferred citation methods for scholarly citations. It makes it extremely difficult to adequately cite if the citation method (ie. MLA) is not even freely available. Bo Shuda (talk) 08:49, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Bo Shuda. Thanks for your response.  I agree that the MOS should be clearer about this.  However, absent guidance from the MOS about how to typeset various types of titles, note that the  template automatically places the title in quotation marks, whereas the  template puts its title in italics.  To me, this is the closest thing Wookieepedia has to a policy, so it makes sense to follow it.  I also agree that it's questionable for the MOS to specify a citation style whose canonical source can't be accessed directly by the general web-browsing public.  (Still, there are resources on the web that summarize MLA citation style.)  If you'd like to lobby for the MOS to be amended to clarify these issues, I will fully support you.  I've thought of doing this myself, but it's not high on my list of priorities. In response to the other issues you've raised: (a) While the MOS does refer to MLA style, the basic concept of casting the titles of shorter items in quotes and longer ones in italics is not specific to a single style guide, but rather is quite widespread in American publishing (including Wikipedia's Manual of Style).  Other countries may or may not use the same style&mdash;I am not knowledgeable enough to say&mdash;but Wookieepedia policy is clear that American English is the standard to be followed on this wiki.  (b) On the question of how to to typeset titles in places other than citations (Sources list, article text, etc.): It is nonsensical to use one style in one section of an article, and a different style in every other section.  Such a policy would only increase confusion among Wookieepedia editors and make it less likely that any given article would follow the correct style.  No purpose is served by complicating the rules to such a degree.  The one thing every style guide emphasizes is consistency.  (That is ultimately the purpose of having a style guide at all.) Asithol (talk) 09:20, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * I fear I haven't expressed myself clearly. I was not intending to say I thought it your responsibility to raise the issue.  I don't really see ownership of responsibility in that way; in my philosophy, all Wookieepedia editors share equal responsibility for improving the site.  But we all have a finite amount of time to give, and must choose our priorities.  I was merely inviting you to raise the issue if it was a priority for you, not saying I felt you should or that you were somehow responsible for doing so.  In any case, thank you for the link to the edit; I will look into that. Asithol (talk) 17:43, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Cloud City
It mentions that the city fell under Separatist control during the Clone Wars, but it doesn't give a date for its construction.-- Exiled Jedi   (Greetings)  04:14, December 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ifd
Bo Shuda, in the future, please use the Ifd tag, and not Delete, when tagging images for deletion. Also, when tagging, it should go in the "attention" parameter. Thanks,  JangFett  (Talk) 14:32, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem  JangFett  (Talk) 01:24, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Blocked
You have been blocked from editing for 1 month for disrupting Wookieepedia's Trash compactor process. Maybe you thought I was joking when I warned you not to perpetuate your off-topic line of discussion in that thread. That doesn't mean respond one more time to get the final word so you can "say your piece." It means stop. I made a reasonable request politely asking the user to elaborate on his vote for the sake of reaching an informed decision on that forum and accepted his decision once he declined. It is you who antagonized the situation and disrupted the fair proceedings of that forum by presuming to insinuate yourself into the discussion for no relevant purpose to the thread but to criticize me and then continuing to do so once I told you to drop it. To contest this block, please contact the blocking administrator with the reason you believe the block is unjustified. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:01, January 5, 2014 (UTC)