Forum:CT Archive/Canon/Legends Default Switch

With the release of The Force Awakens now weeks away, it is time for the community to decide whether or not to implement the long proposed and often mooted Canon/Legends default switchover. As all are currently aware, Wookieepedia currently defaults to the Legends version of a given article; in effect, this CT proposes to make the Canon version of our articles the default landing page, with Legends pages moved to the /Legends subpages. This has always been a hotly debated topic, and one that has often split the community; strong feelings regarding the decanonization of the Expanded Universe left many of us annoyed and frustrated, and it is probably fair to say that more than a few of us were left feeling unmotivated and uninspired by the decision.

However, we cannot deny the inevitable - there is a new Canon and a new universe being created, and for Wookieepedia to remain relevant in the coming days, months and years, then we must put aside our personal feelings and do what is best for the site as a whole. On December 18th, we should not be confusing casual readers heading to the site with now-erroneous information that does not reflect the current Star Wars ongoing storyline. However, this does not mean abandoning our exhaustive Legends coverage. Many of us, myself included, will continue to work on Legends related topics as a personal preference.

Because of the mechanics of the switchover, and assuming a positive vote in favor of switching the default, the site will go into read-only mode to allow the bots to make the necessary adjustments. The timeframe is a little variable, and will last at least several days, and possibly a week or more. During this time, no editing will be possible.

In addition to the main vote, there is a second vote attached to this CT which deals with the issue of applicable redirects defaulting to the Canon page once the CT has passed in a positive manner; for example, making sure "Madine" redirects to Crix Madine, and not Crix Madine/Legends. This is more a housekeeping issue and one that is intended to keep the site running smoothly for editors and readers alike. - Sir Cavalier of One ( Squadron channel ) 22:53, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Support: Canon pages should be default

 * 1) Sir Cavalier of One FarStar.svg( Squadron channel ) 22:53, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Ugh so no sleep for me or RoboCade it is then. Cade  StupidRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit.svg  Calrayn  22:55, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) For the longest time, I would have been strongly opposed to making Canon pages the default. However, over the time since the Legends announcement I have grown to accept that this switch has to happen.-- Exiled Jedi  ( talk ) 23:00, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) My fingers will no longer have to suffer all the painful /Canon cramps. Comm. Boots (talk) 23:03, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 5) If we continue to put this off, Wookieepedia will stagnate and eventually become irrelevant. -  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 23:05, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) Cwedin (talk) 23:08, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 7) Honestly, my biggest reason for voting for this now is just to watch Cade cry at all the work he has to do. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 23:11, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 8) Execute Order 66. Corellian Premier Jedi symbol.svg Force will be with you always 00:14, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 9) Ayrehead02 (talk) 16:19, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 10) Cevan   (talk)  17:02, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 11)  IFYLOFD  ( Talk ) 01:22, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * 12) Obi-wan Baloney (talk) 03:43, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * 13)  grunny &#64; wookieepedia :&#126;$ 16:10, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * 14) I've been a supporter of this for a long time. Let's do it. ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:24, December 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 15) Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:32, December 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 16) Yay! Finally! Nivlacanator (talk)  05:34, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 17) I've thought about this a lot over the last few months, and this is something that needs to happen. Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:33, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * 18) <- Omicron (Leave a message at the BEEP! ) 03:35, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * 19) Coruscantfan (Talk) 12:08, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * 20) I hope that this will provide an impetus for all of us, especially those who focus exclusively on canon pages, to increase our quality standards. A good number of canon pages, particularly the major character ones, need a lot of improvement if they're going to become the default-view versions of their respective articles.  CC7567  (talk) 14:43, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * 21) * sees target* ... *attacks thread with a barrage of snowballs* About damn time. :P I still say that it should have been this way from the beginning.    MasterJonathan @ wookieepedia.com  :~ $   02:14, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 22) We all knew this day would come. JorrelWiki-shrinkable.pngFraajic 02:29, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 23) ew. 501st  dogma ( talk ) 03:38, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 24) I don't have a reason to vote seeing that it's settled. But might as well be one of those who decides support anyways because yes, this has to happen. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:08, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 25) Let's do it now once and for all, and stand as monument to our shame like the Weeping Angels of old! --LelalMekha (talk) 15:28, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) ew. 501st  dogma ( talk ) 03:38, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) I don't have a reason to vote seeing that it's settled. But might as well be one of those who decides support anyways because yes, this has to happen. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:08, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) Let's do it now once and for all, and stand as monument to our shame like the Weeping Angels of old! --LelalMekha (talk) 15:28, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Let's do it now once and for all, and stand as monument to our shame like the Weeping Angels of old! --LelalMekha (talk) 15:28, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause. JediMaster22 (talk) 00:45, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Support

 * 1) Sir Cavalier of One FarStar.svg( Squadron channel ) 22:53, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Cade  StupidRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit.svg  Calrayn  22:55, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3)  Exiled Jedi  ( talk ) 23:00, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) Comm. Boots (talk) 23:03, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 5)  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 23:05, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) Cwedin (talk) 23:08, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 7) Brandon Rhea (talk) 23:11, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * 8)  Corellian Premier Jedi symbol.svg Force will be with you always 00:14, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 9) Ayrehead02 (talk) 16:19, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 10) Cevan   (talk)  17:02, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 11)  IFYLOFD  ( Talk ) 01:22, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * 12) Obi-wan Baloney (talk) 03:43, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * 13)  grunny &#64; wookieepedia :&#126;$ 16:10, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * 14) ProfessorTofty (talk) 19:24, December 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 15) Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:32, December 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 16) Nivlacanator (talk)  05:32, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * 17) Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:33, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * 18) Coruscantfan (Talk) 12:08, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 *  CC7567  (talk) 14:43, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari (talk) 17:01, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Obviously.   MasterJonathan @ wookieepedia.com  :~ $   02:14, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) JorrelWiki-shrinkable.pngFraajic 02:29, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) More ew. 501st  dogma ( talk ) 03:38, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 5) Ditto here. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:08, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) "It's what the network wants, why bother to complain?"﻿ --LelalMekha (talk) 15:30, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) More ew. 501st  dogma ( talk ) 03:38, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Ditto here. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:08, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) "It's what the network wants, why bother to complain?"﻿ --LelalMekha (talk) 15:30, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Say, we're not planning to leave this open for a full two weeks, are we? If the idea is for this to all be ready in time for the new film, and editing is going to be locked as we switch over to this, which could take week or more, then we don't want to find ourselves in a situation where editing is locked down at the time of the film's release. That could be disastrous. ProfessorTofty (talk) 16:47, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe this CT meets the requirements of the snowball clause in the voting policy (e.g. "After one week from the start of voting on an issue, if the votes overwhelmingly support one option, the thread may be closed early.") so I think it's eligible to be closed later today. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 16:49, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * It would seem that this is the point at which I need to remind us that both votes in this proposal are subject to their respective original decisions (see Vote 1 and Vote 2). Both votes are proposing a straight reversal of their original decisions rather than simply modifying them, which means that in order to reach consensus, each vote must garner a voter participation equal or greater to its original consensus. This tab switch is the single-most impactful decision we will ever have made as a community. And inevitable as it may be, if and when it happens, it's going to be ratified legally, according to our site policies, lest it stand forever compromised. That means Vote 1 needs at least 45 eligible voters participating to overturn the original decision. I will be making sure that this forum is closed properly in accordance with our procedures and that each vote is eligible. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 14:57, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it stands to reason that because the original CT directly acknowledged the inevitably of this change, this is less of a reversal and more of a continuation of that CT's intent, so it wouldn't need greater participation than the original CT. And with time being an issue here, what with The Force Awakens being less than 2 weeks away and all, it's to the benefit of Wookieepedia to have this closed now so Cade, Grunny, and co can begin their work. Otherwise, this will never be finished before The Force Awakens&mdash;or, even worse, the downtime is during the film's release period&mdash;and we've done a big disservice to readers. The old Wikipedia adage of "ignore all rules" when it's to the site's benefit is a good one to remember here. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 15:09, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * We aren't going to circumvent our way around our own rules, no matter how badly some of you want to see this change happen before December 18. The original forum grants no certain measure whatsoever for making this switch, otherwise we wouldn't even need to hold this vote. This hurdle should surprise no one, especially considering we had a failed proposal to amend this rule this calendar year, in which some users correctly foresaw this eventuality, not to mention that this vote total has been an inevitability that many of us have referenced on occasion in IRC discussions ever since the original forum's closure, so we knew it was coming. This is our community policy, and this, the most important of all consensus decisions, will abide by it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 15:35, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Given that everyone who has voted so far is currently in pretty clear agreement on this, and seemingly in agreement on it needing to happen before the film comes out I feel there's a strong case for closing the vote now. Since the original vote strongly suggested that the decision wwould one day be changed I don't know that it should have to be beaten in order for the change to occur. Ayrehead02 (talk) 15:59, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * I want to make it clear that I harbor no ill will toward this forum's outcome. I recognize the community's desire that we've reached the point of making this change. But it's imperative that this be ratified totally above board and by the letter of the law. To do what Brandon is suggesting and just "ignore our rules," especially for this of all outcomes, sets a disgusting precedent for every future consensus vote we ever have from this point forward. Rather than drawing this out to a messy and disruptive conclusion, I'm going to offer us a solution: The good news here is that we still have time to pass a snowball CT before December 18. I suggest someone start a side CT today that will give us the legal authority in this single instance to begin enacting Vote 1, given that its eventual consensus is clear yet incomplete, even though it has yet to officially reach consensus. Then once this forum does reach 45 votes, we close it cleanly and legally, and everyone gets their way. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:22, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Or, maybe this is even a better solution: We hold an emergency Mofference tonight for this single item and pass this side vote now rather than waiting a week. Feedback here would be nice, since this is on such short notice. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:31, December 6, 2015 (UTC)