Talk:Darth Caedus

Actual pronunciation
Can anyone post the actual pronunciation of "Caedus" in IPA? I assume the current [kie-duss] means rhyming with "pie" and "puss", in other words, similar to real-life reconstructed Latin with an American accent but I want some clarification on that.

Dark Lord of the Sith
Anybody have any idea why it says "Unkown, eventually succeeded by Darth Krayt" in this spot on the page? Krayt was already the Dark Lord/ Dread Lord of the New Sith Order by the time Jacen became Darth Caedus.Darth Nikolai 04:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I know why it's phrased like that. If the Rule of Two continues post-LotF, then there will be other Dark Lords before Krayt takes over and actually replaces the Rule of Two with the Rule of One. You're right in saying that Krayt is Dark Lord since c. 30 ABY, but he may not be the Dark Lord until 130 ABY. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So because Lumiya's Sith was a continuation of Bane's Order, until it dies out, Krayt can't be considered the Dark Lord? Well, okay I'll buy that I guess. But with Caedus' death and Tahiri's defection, Lumiya's (and therefore Bane's) Sith died. Unless we get a story that says Lumiya broke the Rule of Two and secretly had another apprentice the One Sith are the preeminent Sith faction in the galaxy making Krayt the Dark Lord. Hence, based on the information we have now, it shouldn't say "unknown, eventually..."Darth Nikolai 04:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose we'll find out. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 12:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember that we don't have any source were he proclaims himself the Dark Lord of the Sith in the LOTF. But he does eventually, hence eventually succeeded by Darth Krayt Steves490 20:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for being off topic, but I've always wondered what exactly is the source for Krayt being the "Dread Lord"?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Its in Star Wars Legacy 1: Broken, Part 1 Steves490 20:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Pic of Caedus and Jaina dueling
Caedus has both arms in the pic, could this be the duel on Nickel One? He only had one arm when she dueled him the second and final time--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It'd have to be the duel on Nickel One. It's already used here. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 17:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. Just wanted to make sure.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Behind the Threat: The Sith
It should be mentioned somewhere on this article that Jaecn Solo is mistakenly called "Jacen Skywalker" in the Wizards of the Coast article. Also, the article says that Lumiya resurrected the Rule of Two, wouldn't this make Lumiya's Sith nothing more than a sect, and not a different organization, than the Rule of Two? Should the Lumiya's Sith article be merged with the Rule of Two article?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Lumiya's Sith has always been referred to as a continuation of Bane's order, but it was never actually given the blessing of member of the rule of two. It is her own seperate order. Lumiya just followed the same rules that worked so well for Darth Vader and his sith ancestors. Steves490 20:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

12.179.11.22 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Name of the Article
I think that the main name of the article should be "Jacen Solo," rather than "Darth Caedus." Darth Vader's page is "Anakin Skywalker"; based on the quick-redemption-before-death parallel, I feel that the title of the main page should be changed.
 * Look at Anakin's talk page to see why the name of the article is Anakin Skywalker. At the moment it's never actually said that Caedus was redeemed, only that Jania thinks he was. Oh, and please sign your comments with four tidles ( ~ ) - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 16:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Initially I was against the thought that he was redeemed right at the end. But after thinking about it for a while, I think that since Jaina thought he was redeemed then maybe that's how it should go. She was, after all, the one closest to him for his whole life, and she was present right when he died. Also, the argument could be used that the page should be named Jacen Solo for reasons other than that. I know that many won't like this idea, but it makes sense to me: Anakin Skywalker was known as Anakin Skywalker, not Darth Vader for a large portion of his life, even if many remember the man Darth Vader was more than Anakin Skywalker. The same argument could be made for Jacen. He did, in fact, spend the majority of his life as Jacen Solo, a "good guy". He was only Darth Caedus for a short time. So, it could also be concluded that even though he will be remembered by many as Darth Caedus IU, maybe for our OU references Jacen Solo would be more appropriate.I don't know. I'm betting everyone's gonna hate on me for that argument, but I'm entitled to my opinion, and technically, its never been stated one way or the other if he was redeemed. I don't really care either way, I just had an idea. -- Zadi ( Yack Track ) 16:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see why I should hate you for that, I want to make Wookieepedia as good as possible and please everyone in the process. But the reason Anakin's name is Anakin is because the book narration referred to him as Anakin (saying things such Anakin moved, Anakin drew a breath etc. etc.), and, I haven't actually read the book, but the impression I get is that the narration never referred to Caedus, only said that Jaina thought he was. Hopefully the next book will settle this properly. - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 17:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This was already discussed many times, look in the archives Steves490 17:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Look, Jaina said that he died as Jacen Solo. I don't know about you guys, but I think Jaina Solo is a pretty reliable source. Change it back to Jacen Solo.71.106.50.65 00:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC) The page should stay as Darth Caedus, but I think the author wrote the scene so you could interpret his actions as redemption if you wanted to. From the book, not exact: "The only attempt he made to save himself was to step back into the light." Drewton   ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, because it's only Jaina's POV on the matter. She might have said that she thought he died as Jacen only because that's what she wanted to happen. I read the book; I see no indication that he was redeemed. Thus, he died as Darth Caedus. This issue has been debated a couple times already, and the page hasn't been moved (nor will it be). Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We should not clutter up the talk page when the same exact argument has been made before, read the archives. Steves490 15:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but he might appear again and say he has returned while being a Force ghost. Jacen didn't die as a bad guy as we all know, so why condemn him to Heck? 12.179.11.22 23:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That may be the case. However, that is not the case right now. According to the last official source, Invincible, Jacen died as Caedus. See above discussion (as well as all of the archived discussion) for more. 02:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If he does return as a Force ghost and says he was redeemed, then the name of the article will be changed then, but for now it will stay as Darth Caedus  Jaina Leia Mara Jedi Knight
 * Frankly, even if he returns as a "redeemed" Force ghost, I don't think the article's name should change. He died as Darth Caedus - that's a fact. Becoming a Force ghost doesn't mean he was redeemed, unless he would say something along the lines of "I returned to the light before I died." Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 16:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, on that topic, what about Ajunta Pall then? He was a Sith Lord who died, and then was moved to the light as a ghost... though that in and of itself is confusing. 02:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Very thoughtful, man. I was thinking just the same way. Then we'd know he was truly Jacen again. Also, the book said that Jaina was holding Jacen's body when he died, not Caedus'. Remember? That would be a very important piece of info. What do you think? 12.179.11.22 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I quote from the book, page 264: "Then the blade reached Caedus's heart, and he dropped at her feet, and Jaina felt nothing at all." So no, that quote you provided is not an important piece of information. My quote proves he died as Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What I meant to say was that Jaina held her brother's body, which the book now moved to Jacen now instead of Caedus after he died. Remember? 12.179.11.22 06:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Having just read the ending of the book a few hours previously (Damned lousy Australian bookstores), they do refer to what happened as Jacen being "killed" by the Vong, and Caedus being what moved into the shell. The shift to "Jacens body" is a natural follow on from that: Caedus is dead and the shell, the body of Jacen, is what they were referring to. Given my reading of the events leading up to the final duel with Caedus, and his actions in that duel, my opinion is that his actions were not inconsistent with him still being Caedus at the end. He repeatedly justifies what he is doing to himself as him doing it for his daughter and others, and his last act, attempting to warn his daughter and lover, follows right on from that, especially given the urgency of the situation and the fact that Jaina had crippled him by that point. He knew he had lost, and instead of doing something inspired by simple revenge and hatred (Killing her back) he used the time to try and protect the reason he went dark. That just isn't redemption, merely a continuation of his original motives to go dark. It was not a happy ending. Wonderful :D --121.44.48.172 08:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You...sleemos! You vicious, heartless sleemos! Look what you've done to him! His last act was to save his daughter, and you come here with your petty, feeble pessimism and criticism, and you draw his name through the mud, this fine, honorable Jedi, whose boots you are not worthy to kiss. He gets betrayed by the Moff Council, goes to warn his wife and kid, and then shows Jaina and the rest of the Jedi that he truly came back by showing the end of their twin bond. Yet you still say he died as a Sith Lord!?!?! You dumb, half-wit numskulls! Oh, it makes me mad... mad! And that's what I bring for a fact. Thank you. 131.109.225.39 19:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope you're just joking. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 19:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Just get off the wiki if you're not going to be serious about this. State proof of redemption or shutup. Steves490 20:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm dead serious! about this, all right! Han might've said Jacen would've killed Jaina if he let him live, but Jacen chose not to! He must've been sick of killing family members and Isolder's death wasn't his fault. He just snapped, that's all. Gone mad! If he remained a Sith Lord, how come he warned Tenel Ka and Allana? HUH?!?!? He killed two family members, like Vader killed Owen and Beru, then returned to the light to save his offspring, like grandpa Anakin saved Luke from Sidious. Guess what, Lumiya? When you said Jacen would be the Sith his grandpa wasn't, you didn't actually expect him to remain dark, did you? HA HA!!! How's that for proof, Mr. Smarty-Pants? 198.7.229.2 15:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Its hard to take you seriously when you're acting so childish. And as for your "proof", Caedus joined the sith in the first place to protect Tenel Ka and Allana so how is protecting them before death a symbol of change, and also he never rejected the dark side. If you would actually read the archives instead of cluttering up the talk page you would have seen the exact same useless arguments being made by users like you who haven't read the book closely enough or not at all. Steves490 19:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Discuss the topic all you want, but the next person who disrupts the page or makes a personal attack in my or another admin's opinion is getting a block. I've warned two people about the importance of not insulting others already, and it's getting a bit out of hand. Please be civil. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:28, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What about Palpatine? Or Dooku? They were never redeeemed. Why shouldn't they be called Darth Sidious / Tyranus? This should be moved to Jacen Solo. This has been discussed many times, but it doesn't mean we can't discuss it again. 16:24, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Palpatine and Dooku were never ever known by their Sith names publicly. The only ones who ever knew anything were these two guys themselves. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 16:55, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * By the end of his life He was known publicly as Caedus which matched his Sith status, The people, military and jedi including Luke Skywalker called him Caedus, His own parents stated that the man who was Jacen was dead and didn't agree with what Jaina said about him after his death. He is called Caedus not Jacen in his most up to date appearances Millennium Falcon (novel) and Star Wars Legacy 18: Claws of the Dragon, Part 5 Steves490 00:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Dudes  Vader  was  never   reedemed,he  oly  did  that  for  his  son,So  if  he is  anakin  he  is  Jacen
 * It's been decided that Vader was indeed redeemed at the end by several, several, several sources, so the first part of your argument is moot. Furthermore, it has been decided several times before that the page stays at Caedus. Get over it. 16:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, early copies of Millenium Falcon contain numerous references to Jacen Solo, and none to Caedus. I think it's time for this to get changed.
 * from what I've read so far they don't say he's redeemed. Steves490 22:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The main argument I would put against it is that as the majority of his life he was Jacen Solo then that should take precedence over his name when he died. Rayn3000 03:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)Rayn3000
 * Please read the archives. I say this even though I know you Jacen people will never ever be happy, if the name is ever changed the Sith infobox should remain, it seems to be made clear so far in the book that he never turned back to the light, he died a SITH. But that reinforces the argument of keep his name Caedus, THE ARGUMENT CONTINUES!! Steves490 18:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The issue isn't redemption--in Millenium Falcon, it's implied that it's still somewhat up in the air. The issue is, in-universe sources refer to the character as Jacen Solo, not Darth Caedus. So when Millenium Falcon is put into general release, this needs to be changed.
 * Everybody in universe knows he was a Sith and died as one. His friends and family call him Jacen because its like Harry Osbourn calling his Dad Green Goblin, It's just not comfortable. What is Jadak told about the war by the common people? A Jedi Knight took up the teachings of the Sith and had a short reign of terror before he was killed. That's what the galaxy sees him as. Also how am I supposed to take your argument seriously if you don't even use the wiki correctly, SIGN YOUR POSTS Steves490 18:50, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

-He did spend more time as Jacen than as Caedus. Perhaps, if as the statements of "Jacen died with the Vong" and "Caedus died by Jaina's hand" are true, then there should be one article for each entity linked to each other. ~Anon.
 * My issue with the name of the article has to do for pretty much a spoiler reason. I understand Wookieepedia's policy of when warnings about spoilers should be removed.  However, I'm of the opinion that Jacen Solo's transformation into Darth Caedus is one of the biggest events happening to a specific character in the EU.  More importantly, we aren't given any hints of this transformation until at least halfway through the New Jedi Order series.  Prior to that, we all thought that Jacen would just be another one of those pure "guiding-light" Jedi based on his track record, and the EU sources portraying him as such far outweigh his sources where he is becoming Darth Caedus.  Many people are still making their way though the plethora of EU material that takes place after RotJ, despite how many of us on Wookieepedia have read everything already.  I even have a few friends in this situation.  They are steadily reading many of the big novels in chronological order (X-Wing, Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy, etc..), and know Jacen Solo as the good boy he used to be.  Now, when they visit Wookieepedia out of curiosity, they see the Jacen Solo described in big letters as "Darth Caedus".  This pretty much ruins any surprises and interesting discoveries in the future as they read the later EU novels. I realize that is the nature of the encyclopedia, and they are warned that all the information contained on the Wiki is essentially a spoiler.  But, like I said before, the Jacen Solo -> Darth Caedus situation is phenomenally huge and important, and in my opinion, the biggest spoiler of the entire Post-RotJ Expanded Universe.  As such, I think the title of the article should be 'Jacen Solo' as a courteous gesture to the fans out there who have not experienced his story yet.  Yes, this breaks the rules.  But I don't think the rules should be so black-and-white all the time, especially when the author leaves his light/dark status at the end purposely ambiguous (as evidenced by the pages of discussion on this already, which I will not get into).  Nothing else in the article should be changed, even the the short summary at the top of the page.  Just the title.  --Xarathion 17:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * According to that logic, we should also have flashing warnings for the Luke/Vader revelation. And don't forget Luke/Leia. Why not throw a bunch of flashing lights on Revan's and Bastila's page while we're at it? There's a spoiler warning on the front page. That's more then enough. If someone is honestly that stupid to go to an online encyclopedia without fulling reading the material upon which that encyclopedia is based, then they shouldn't be complaining. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 17:20, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * May I add that as a first-time visitor in the Wook, I remember the first thing I noticed was the spoiler alert. It's just impossible to miss, and that's good. Nanook 21:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Novel
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/a/ac/JacenOnimi.jpg

What novel does this appear in? (not the image, the event)Thanks JediNTT307 19:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC) ThanksJediNTT307 01:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force Steves490 00:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The event occurs in The Unifying Force of the NJO series -- Zadi ( Yack Track ) 15:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

"despite being one of the more powerful Knights of the New Jedi Order" change to "most"

Abilities
Under abilities, it references the end of the Unifying Force, saying: "...achieving perfect balance between the light and dark sides. The result was possibly the most powerful use of Force Light ever known..." This is obviously wrong, since Force Light is a manifestation of the Light Side of the Force. I think the line about Force Light should be removed, because it is clearly conjecture (and wrong at that).

Quote for Dark Lord section
I'm going back through older Star Wars stories and I'm currently reading Dark Tide II. There's a line in it that Jacen thinks to himself that seems extremely reflective of his future. "Responsibility for others could blind me to my responsibility within the Force." Page 156 if anyone wants to double check me. I think that would be a great lead-in quote for one of the of the sections. Anyone agree? --Rubiksphere 08:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that would be a fantastic quote for the personality section. The one we have now is an insult. But that quote explains why/how he fell Steves490 19:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Why he turned dark
I'm a little confused. Did Lumiya took advantage of Jacen or something to turn him to the dark side like Palpatine? Like when she showed him his grandpa's reasons for becoming Vader? Why couldn't he just put his family history behind him and stay light? Can anyone tell me!?!?! DarthWill3 20:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC) A. read the article B. read the LOTF series C. go to theforce.net fourms Steves490 21:19, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * you can

Jacen saving the galaxy?
So at the end of LotF series it said Jaina realized that Jacen had accomplished his mission by brining the galaxy peace. My question is how? From what I got from reading the series all he did was destroy planets and caused others to join the rebellion. At the end it just seemed like he failed and that in the final battle he didn't accomplish any thing but led to the moffs getting captured which up into the last two books didn't really play a part in the galatic war. Can someone please explain? 1. Stopped terrorism on Coruscant 2. Saved Coruscant from another bombardment see Mission to Vulpter 3. United the Galaxy against him, when he died, that simply leaves a united Galaxy (Jaina's Main Thought) 4. Saved Allana and Tenel Ka's life during Battle of Shedu Maad 5. Scored many victories vs. Confederation who nobody liked.
 * Well lets look at the few good things that Darth Caedus did

among others. But I think #3 is what Jaina really meant. Steves490 20:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

- One thing that really confuses me is that..like...what troopers/ships are they using? is he using stormtroopers and death stars, or something else? this who "after the battle of endor" starwars is confusing... 92:52 PM, October 25


 * First, sign all of your comments. Second, the answer to your questions are in the Darth Caedus and Second Galactic Civil War articles. I now it's a huge galaxy to keep up with but after reading this wiki constantly you will eventually get it. If you have any more questions go to my talk page instead of using up space on a disussion page that doesn't really have much to do with your question. Steves490 01:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Jedi Consular?
I know that after the Jedi Purge the definitions of Guardians and Consulars became more-or-less moot, but my own categorical brain can't help but try to place every Jedi under a single category. So from what I've read of Jacen, I wonder whether he is a Consular as opposed to a Guardian. He certainly exhibits all of the trademarks of a Force specialist. Is there any source to confirm his Jedi class? Darth Raivon 17:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hes given the category of Gurdian on the page but it's difficult to say. He could be a consular with amazing lightsaber skills like yoda or he could be a gurdian with amazing force power like anakin. But if I remember correctly a Sith Lord is the Sith version of a Jedi Consular according to KOTOR right? Steves490 17:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that "Sith Lord" is a generic title for all Sith apprentices and masters. I believe that Jacen was a Consular because of his inclination towards learning and expanding his Force abilities, which is the goal of all Consulars. Anakin was more into lightsaber combat, even though he possessed more power than most. Like Yoda though, Jacen was an extremely skilled duelist, which is no surprise when you consider his lineage. Oh yeah; he also carries a green lightsaber, which is another nod to my theory (although Jedi of that era had no care for class conformity and chose whatever colour they desired). Darth Raivon 20:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right. One piece of evidence for a consular is his five year journey of force exploration. Evidence of being a guardian is that he trained Jedi in the arts of lightsaber combat such as Nelani Dinn. But I'm leaning toward Consular. Caedus was known by most Jedi as being someone extremely talented in force powers which I believe was said by Jaina in Invincible. I would like to know what is the source for him going under the category of a guardian though. Steves490 02:34, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

There isn't any evidence of him being a Guardian. Everything points towards him being a Consular, IMO. I also think he was an Ataru practitioner, given that his lightsaber form incorporated a lot of spins and force acrobatics. Darth Raivon 22:34, 5 December 2008 (UTC)