Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Taris


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

(0 Inqs/1 Users/1 Total)
Support
 * 1) --Vaklu 18:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Unsourced paragraphs in the BtS. Lots of small paragraphs could be combined. Quotes in prose. Ref in intro. Fact tags in main body. Infobox unsourced. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) *I don't see the unsourced BtS paragraphs. Just because paragraphs could be combined, doesn't mean they should. I also don't see any quotes in the prose. I don't see any problem with fact tags, and I can't really do anything with those anyway. Taking care of the other problems.--Vaklu 20:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) **I see four. They should because paragraphs should be more than one, two, or three sentences long; it just looks bad. There's a quote midsection in the History section. The problem with the fact tags is that they are there. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 20:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) ***Well you can claim to see them but they have fact tags. Paragraphs don't have to be more than three sentences, but each paragraph has to do with different ideas, which is the defining factor in paragraph construction. I don't know how to deal with the fact tags if I don't have the sources. Also, how can we source the BtS? Wikipedia can't be used as a source and that's where most of the information comes from.--Vaklu 20:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) ****Fact tags means they are unsourced. Have a look at some other FAs and compare paragraph size. You'll have to find a way, unfortunately. You can either source the BtS or remove it; I'm easy, since it's mostly bullshit anyway. It should be replaced with a more relevant, sourcable BtS. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 20:25, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) *****Fine, I'll combine relavent paragraphs. I guess most of the BtS is BS (pun intended) anyway so I'll see what I can do.--Vaklu 20:31, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) *How did I do?--Vaklu 20:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) You might like to have look at the Planet layout guide to change some of the formatting. --Eyrezer 02:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) *Everything except "Inhabitants", while some might consider this an important section, Locations states heavily what sort of people lived on Taris, what they did, etc., unlike other articles would be able to, since not all planets are so rigidly organized. If I added in a separate section, it would seem like reiterrating the same information throughout the article. Adding in the section would be redundant. Other than that I think I covered everything. Economy and government are not very fleshed out in any source, and the "Culture" section covers both adequately, I think.--Vaklu 20:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) Preliminaries from Graestan the Mighty:
 * 11) * Intro is sorely lacking in summarized content.
 * 12) **Done.--Vaklu 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 13) ***Much meatier. I'll have a closer look soon. Graestan ( Talk ) 17:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 14) *Infobox could use either formatting cleanup or removal of items such as "formerly" in favor of, oh, perhaps "(–3,956 BBY)," reflecting the time at which Taris was devastated.
 * 15) **Done.--Vaklu 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 16) ***Not too keen on how that looks. I'd really try my suggestion of the parentheses with the dash and date after each "formerly" item. Graestan ( Talk ) 17:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 17) ****Well, giving a conflict as opposed to a specific date I think prevents mistakes, as the exact date cannot be totally confirmed (referring to the information, not the date itself, since Jedi Civil War is broad enough to include things that may have gone a little before or a little after 3,956 BBY). I hope you can reconsider.--Vaklu 20:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 18) *****There is a specific year provided for the devastation of Taris, and therefore the date is not exactly in question. Graestan ( Talk ) 23:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 19) *Article could use an in-depth copy-edit, fixing spelling errors, formatting issues, POV statements, grammar and structure mishaps, et cetera.
 * 20) **Could you specify which sections have POV?--Vaklu 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 21) ***"The Upper City was a beautiful area" – This, for instance. The article really does need to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb. Perhaps someone else on the KOTOR WookieeProject could give it a go; I suggest Goodwood, as he is highly knowledgeable about the subject and also has rather impeccable writing skills. Graestan ( Talk ) 17:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 22) ****Are you saying I have neither?--Vaklu 20:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 23) *****Graestan is simply giving you some suggestions, Vaklu, as an Inquisitor on what he knows would most likely make the article an FA. I'd simply suggest to stop looking at every objection as a personal attack, and try to work towards a middle ground here. The FAN page is not meant for personal attacks, so please do not take objections in that nature. It would probably help if you remembered that, and simply looked at objections as ways to improve the article, rather than an attack on your writing. Everyone here who has objected on certain things has a fair amount of FA's under their belts, so when they object about something, it's probably for a good reason. Likewise, Graestan's suggestion about contacting Goodwood was...well, a good suggestion. Goodwood, among some others, is one of the most knowledgeable users on the site when it comes to KOTOR&mdash;hence why he's written numerous KOTOR FA's and GA's, and why he volunteered to run WP:KOTOR. Honestly, if reviewers didn't think that you would fight every objection, you'd probably find more Inq to review your articles. So, please consider what I've said here. Thanks, Greyman  http://images.wikia.com/central/images/9/9c/Jan.png ( Talk ) 21:27, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 24) ******What I am saying, Vaklu, is that it always helps to have two sets of eyes go over any project before completion, let alone perfection, is declared. I suggested Goodwood because he's the man. Graestan ( Talk ) 23:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 25) *Images unevenly sized and placed.
 * 26) **Fixed.--Vaklu 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 27) ***Still rather image-heavy towards the bottom. Graestan ( Talk ) 17:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 28) ****Well I think leaving out an image in a section where it is needed would be counter-productive, after all the sections at the bottom are large enough and unique enough to have their own images, for reader clarity.--Vaklu 20:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 29) *****There are plenty of images that can be grabbed to flesh out the rest of the article, in the game as well as the comics. At any rate, it's moot to address this now, before any of my requested expansion has been undertaken. Graestan ( Talk ) 23:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 30) *Expansion in a number of areas is desired. I suggest going through the comics, in particular, issue-by-issue, all the while adding any pertinent information to the appropriate sections and sourcing by issue. Also, a number of sources seem to lack referenced material, and I think that this might be where the missing content may be found. There's a lot more to Taris than what's represented here. If a decent amount of work is put into the article after this, I would be willing to look more closely.
 * 31) **Could you specify which sections?--Vaklu 22:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 32) ***As I said, going through the comics issue-by-issue and thoroughly representing/sourcing will do wonders. Graestan ( Talk ) 17:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 33) ****I'm afraid I'm still a little lost as to how this differs with what I already have in place...--Vaklu 20:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 34) *****Go into more detail. When you go through the sources again, try to make sure almost every relevant bit of information is represented in the article. As Star Wars is more about characters and events than planets and objects, it shouldn't be so hard to determine what should be included: anything that says anything about Taris. Graestan ( Talk ) 23:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 35) * Graestan ( Talk ) 05:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 36) *A suggestion: putting some work into the article, as opposed to arguing here, wouldn't do any harm. I noticed you haven't touched it in three days, yet you're discussed it with me right here. Graestan ( Talk ) 23:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 37) Can you please provide a source for the "Class" in the "Physical" part of the infobox? Greyman  http://images.wikia.com/central/images/9/9c/Jan.png ( Talk ) 21:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 38) From the desk of Atarumaster88
 * 39) * No link to a Tarisian Civil War. Make an article if necessary.
 * 40) **Complete.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 41) *1st sentence of 2nd paragraph of intro is completely disjointed. Put it somewhere else or clarify the rest of the paragraph.
 * 42) **Corrected.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 43) ***The issue is not way the sentence was worded. The problem is that the majority of the paragraph is not talking about the war; it's talking about Tarisian class warfare. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 44) * Missing links in the intro. Jedi Civil War, etc.
 * 45) **Added the Tarisian Civil War link, other than that the issue had already been taken care of (by you I guess).--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 46) * By the time of the It was the Jedi Civil War order had been restored." What is this supposed to say? (Intro)
 * 47) **Fixed.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 48) *"This ocean was green, most likely due to industrial pollution." If that's original research, it needs to go.
 * 49) **I'm not sure I understand.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 50) ***Let me put it this way. Did a source state that industrial pollution was the cause of the discolouration? If not, remove it. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 51) *I find your overuse of commas disturbing.
 * 52) **How do you mean (not trying to be difficult or anything...)?--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 53) ***A lot of sentences-i.e. in the terrain section, esp. 1st two paragraphs, have numerous phrases that just don't flow well. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 54) *I generally discourage one-sentence paragraphs unless they're really good. The one on inhabitants and animal life isn't.
 * 55) *Large lizards aren't linked.
 * 56) **I couldn't find what they were called, but I'm sure there's an article somewhere..., still looking.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 57) *You say rakghouls are human, but later you say any sentient. Which is it?
 * 58) *Overlinking. Once you get this cleaned up, have someone drive AWB over it.
 * 59) **Where? I link for every section, nothing in the history or locations sections should have repeat links.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 60) ***In the main body of an article, there should be only one link to each article throughout. Ie if a place occurs in two different sections, it should only be linked the first time. The exception to this is the intro text. Everything linked in the intro, should also be linked once in the main body of the article. --Eyrezer 00:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 61) ****Oh.--Vaklu 00:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 62) * "However, the planet wasn't truly a planet-wide city, since much of it was actually a large ocean,[1] thus differentiating Taris from both Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa another ecumenopolis.[5]" This is both heavily redundant and poorly written.
 * 63) **I can't see how that is poorly written, but I see it as a point that needs to be pointed out, because this trait makes Taris unique, and should be pointed out accordingly; do you not think so?--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 64) **My mistake; it didn't make sense due to a comma error, which I have since fixed. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 65) * humanocentrism or whatever is not linked.
 * 66) **Fixed.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 67) * Section headers are inappropriately capitalized.
 * 68) **Corrected.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 69) *Keep snuffing those one-sentence paragraphs.
 * 70) *Having only a passing reference to the First Battle of Taris is unacceptable.
 * 71) * "In 3,956 BBY several important members of the Republic war effort were onboard the Endar Spire such as Carth Onasi, Bastila Shan, and an amnesiac Revan (currently under the impression that he is a Republic soldier." Present tense, missing a comma, and the parentheses are never closed.
 * 72) **Fixed.
 * 73) * That whole paragraph reads poorly, and I don't recall Bastila stating that she couldn't use her powers on the Spire.
 * 74) **She didn't, Carth did. And fixed.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 75) *"to hide out in." Preposition at the end of a sentence. :-(
 * 76) **Is that...bad?--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 77) * Quotes in the middle of the prose generally discouraged. Ones that have no context especially.
 * 78) **Removed. P.S., the Quarren was a displaced offworlder, and his quote was above the paragraph that discussed this.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 79) *I think that swoop accelerator needs an article.
 * 80) *KotOR I section is very sketchy. No mention of Starkiller and any other number of possible side quests. Be thorough please.
 * 81) **I didn't consider Bendak or any of the other duelists important to Taris as a whole. Other KOTOR FAs (Manaan, past) don't take mention of minor characters in their history.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 82) *In my experience, the word "arguably" often points to OR. Please remove both the word and the OR that follows it.
 * 83) **I don't understand how this is a problem; please specify.--Vaklu 23:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 84) ***It means that you're making a logical assumption or otherwise extrapolating something from the source material, which is generally discouraged and should be removed. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 85) *I've finished up through Destruction of Taris, but this is missing quite a bit of detail and has a number of issues that I'd like to see addressed before I continue. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 21:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * Vaklu, I find your aggression to be entirely inappropriate and uncalled for. When a user places objections to your nomination, it is because there is something legitimately lacking with the article. They aren't here to give you a hard time. Objections are meant to help shape the article into the greatest production it can be. The way you took to Acky's objections was ridiculous. He's not here to fight you, like you are fighting him. The reason his initial objection was as succinct as it was is because this article is a long way from being up to FA standards. It's got significant work left to be done. Everything must be sourced in an article. Fact tags are absolutely not allowed and must be remedied. The fact that you say you can't do anything about them is enough to tell me that this article is simply not ready to be nominated. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I see nothing agressive in my comments, and I'm sure Ackbar didn't either. I was simply seeking clarification and was not fighting his objections. I suggest you think twice before jumping to ridiculous conclusions and launching self-rightious condescension my way.--Vaklu 22:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, it's not worth fighting over; better to just drop the issue please. (Admin) Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 02:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously I am in over my head. Taris is represented on a much larger scope than KOTOR; thusly, I will not be able to tackle too many of the above objections. I can't address anymore of Graestan's objections due to my inability to understand the issues he is attempting to convey (my problem, not his), and also due to my limited knowledge of the KOTOR comic series. I realize I am not perfect and for such a long article as this one I make many mistakes, mistakes I rarely go back over, or even notice, until the article in question is nominated for an FA. I'm sorry for my apparent inability to accept criticism, but when I object to an objection, it is simply an attempt to achieve clarity. I shall try to go over some of Atarumaster88's objections, but their is little more I can or care to do, I leave that to others (the KOTOR WookieeProject), perhaps they can do more than I. Please do not perceive my comments here to be an attempt at being melodramatic, I simply state facts: there is little more I can add to this article, and I hope others may finish my attempt to make this article perfect (I shall help if at all possible). Rest assured that in the future I shall take great caution before nominating another FA, in order to avoid another serious miscommunication.--Vaklu 23:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't let this discourage you from FA; if anything, you now have a better understanding of the requirements and process. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Since the principal nominator is infinitely banned, and one of the reasons behind the ban was adding fanon quotes to this and other articles. It might be best to remove this. If someone wants to spruce it up, they can then start with a clean slate. Cull Tremayne 21:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Remove nomination (Inq only vote)
 * 1) Cull Tremayne 21:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Save the objections, give it a rewrite, and re-nominate it, WP:KOTOR, if you like.  Graestan ( Talk ) 23:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 4)  Greyman  http://images.wikia.com/central/images/9/9c/Jan.png ( Talk ) 03:36, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) Lord Hydronium 03:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 6)  Master Aban Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 14:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)