Talk:Great Jedi Purge

Known survivors of Order 66

 * Order 66 wasn't the only part of the Purge, just its official start. It might make more sense to title that subsection simply "Known survivors", to keep in consideration those who escape the entire escapade. --SparqMan 18:37, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Fixed, by the way. --Imperialles 18:43, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Was Morgan Katarn a Jedi? I was under the impression he was just a Rebel sympathizer whose son Kyle became a Jedi.  Silly Dan 19:29, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, my mistake. --Imperialles 19:30, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Quinulan Vos did survive. I read yhe summary of Republic 83 and he was alive. I am putting him on the survivor list--wattamb2000

Wikipedia entry
Some good content here. A list of recorded deaths might be good if it includes some details (where, as part of Order 66, by Vader, etc.) --SparqMan 18:45, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * While I admit it looks good, it's a little pointless, seeing as we then would have to list all Jedi killed during the Purge... --Imperialles 18:47, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I suggested something similar on the Order 66 page *shrug* --Fade 18:49, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I didn't like the idea then because it would be incomplete, but after seeing it done there, I think it would help the article. It also needs more details on Vader's post-Order 66 hunts. --SparqMan 18:52, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Alpha
I had put Ood Bnar in the "O" section because it didn't seem that Bnar was a surname, but a part of his whole name. --SparqMan 13:22, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Known Victims

 * Um there is some major problems with this list. For one, some of these Jedi may not have been actually killed at all. Second, if they were killed, it was definately not in the way Stated here. For example, A'Sharad Hett was at Salecumai while the Temple was raided. QuentinGeorge 22:26, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Jocasta? Bultar? Killied? And, who is this Norogald Jedi?--wattamb2000
 * Jocasta was killed by Vader defending the Jedi Archives, at least according to the RotS video game. While I as a rule don't accept stuff from games off hand, this makes sense, and IMO should be treated as canon until something of a higher canonical order says otherwise. --Jad Jermain
 * Ferus Olin may well die during the Purge. Depends on the outcome of his duel with Malorum in The Last of the Jedi: Death on Naboo
 * Accoding to the actress who played Aayla Secura, in an brife interview reported on the Force.net, her character didn't die in RotS. Since the interview took place after filming was compleated, it would seem she knows something we don't (the allusion in the artical being Aayla Secura would show up in the live action TV serise). Considering that Aayla Secura's injuries, while crtical, were not explictly fatal, the possability that Aayla Secura survived Order 66 should be considered. To this end, I added the modifier "ostensibly" to her entry to recognize that there is some ambiguity to her fate. It was removed in a later update, but I think it should be there until it can be stated with certainty Secura was a victim of Order 66. --Jad Jermain
 * Is the victims section for major characters only? as I could add one or two other names otherwise, seems to me it would be interesting to ave a list of all jedi killed in the purge HavetStorm 19:01, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * All known victims, yes. Which names are you planning to add? Admiral J. Nebulax 20:35, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

A little rewording
I did some rewording of the second and third paragraphs. The original article wasn't specific about the fact that Anakin and Darth Vader were the same person, nor did it even mention that Anakin fell to the Dark Side. I know we as Star Wars fans tend to take for granted that people already know that, but it still seemed a glaring omission, so I corrected it.

Also I mentioned that Palpatine created the fiction that the Jedi were trying to overthrow the Republic, and used his story to justify (both to Vader and to the public) the destruction of the Jedi. Ekedolphin 08:31, 7 Jul 2005 (UTC)

*Did* Obi-Wan survive it?
The article states that the Great Jedi Purge started in 18 BBY and ended in 0 BBY with the "death of Obi-Wan Kenobi and emergence of Luke Skywalker". It could be argued that Obi-Wan was, in fact, ultimately a victim of the Jedi Purge, 18 years after it started-- since that act was committed by Vader, who was mainly responsible for carrying out the Purge. Thoughts? Ekedolphin 08:31, 7 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, in a way, he is both a survivor and a victim. We could have it by having his name in both the "Survivors" and "Victims" sub-catagories. All we need to do is add that information I had put next to his name in both catagories. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 12:06, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Nearly every source puts Kenobi as a survivor of the Purge. So, technically, it ends just *before* his death. QuentinGeorge 12:21, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * There's also the idea that because he found and confronted Vader in the Death Star and Vader didn't find and kill Obi-Wan while he was hiding, that Obi-Wan did in fact survive the "Purge."Astrobot 17:57, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article divides the survivors into people who survive Episode 3 and people who outlive the Empire.-LtNOWIS


 * Okay, then. I'm going to removed Obi-Wan's name from the survival section. He died at the hands of Darth Vader in 0 BBY, so he didn't outlive the Empire. But Yoda, he died of old age, therefore he survived the Purge. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 12:00, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I've done the reverse, since every source states Obi-Wan is a survivor. QuentinGeorge 02:40, 21 Sep 2005 (EDT)
 * Why? HE DIED AT THE HANDS OF VADER IN 0 BBY. That's enough proof that he DIDN'T survive. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 16:10, 21 Sep 2005 (EDT)
 * Every source says that Obi-Wan is a survivor of the Purge. Period. QuentinGeorge 20:42, 21 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Still, you don't get the point. He died during the Purge at Vader's hands. Originally, I had said that the Purge ended before his death, but as it says above, there is a section on Wikipedia that says those who outlive the Galactic Empire. Clearly, Obi-Wan didn't survive the Empire. He was a victim of the Purge because Vader had killed him like many others. So, I am going to revert it to the way having Obi-Wan as a victim. Unless, we put his name in both sections like I had before and note that this his survival/non-survival is disputed. There's really no other way, unless we want to start an edit war like with Palpatine, locking the page, and making it the discission of a sole vote. Until we come to a truce, I won't revert it. So, do we have a deal? Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:25, 21 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I say have him as both survivor and non-survivor. --Master Starkeiller 14:29, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Still waiting for your answer, QuentinGeorge. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:10, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * What? My answer was that every source clearly define Obi-Wan as one of the few Jedi to survive the Purge. He is a survivor. The movies and the EU both say this. Period. And Darth Vader didn't *actually* kill him - Obi-Wan turned into a force spirit before the blade touches him.
 * PS Yoda didn't survive the Empire either - neither did most of the Jedi on that "survivor" list.   Being "killed" by Vader and being a victim of the "purge" aren't the same things. QuentinGeorge 20:47, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * From the databank - The Jedi were branded as enemies of the state. Palpatine's new Sith apprentice, Darth Vader, razed the Jedi Temple in a nighttime attack carried out by loyal clones. As the Empire came to power, the Jedi were all but extinct. A few survivors, Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Jedi Master Yoda, were able to train the first new Jedi in a generation. QuentinGeorge 20:49, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, you're wrong about one thing: When Vader killed him, did he not become A VICTIM of the Jedi Purge? When a Jedi is killed by Vader any time between 19 BBY and 4 ABY, that Jedi becomes a victim of the Purge. Plus, you completely destroyed my attempt to come to a truce. All you are doing is saying, quote, "This is ridiculous". Well, Mr. I'm-so-right, I don't see any creative ways of fixing this mess coming from you. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 22:41, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * You might want to stop taking things so personally. If I edit your work, I'm not making a personal comment, I'm merely trying to correct the article. From what I'm now finding in various EU sources, the Purge was well over by 1 BBY, so any Jedi still alive by then can be considered to have "survived". "The Purge" wasn't just Darth Vader killing Jedi, it refers to a specific period of history where the hunt was systematic. QuentinGeorge 06:36, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I should note now after my changes that the article is now consistent, as: 1) Obi-Wan is on the survivors list, where we also had people who died BEFORE him. 2) The date has it ending the same year as the GCW starts, just as we have described in the text. QuentinGeorge 06:42, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, I admit that I overreacted. I apologize. In fact, the way you have it now is actually better. Let's just forget all about this now. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:04, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Jerec and Jorus?
Jerec didn't become go Dark until after the Purge had began, as he'd missed out on the Clone Wars entirely while off doing arcehology somewhere. Should he be included? Also, wasn't the original Jorus C'Baoth, not the Clone, said to have served the Emperor at some point? I was thinking perhaps he could be listed as a possible survivor. -CBR2345
 * Jorus C'Baoth was the special Jedi Advisor to Senator Palpatine. Also, he was killed when Thrawn attacked the Outbound Flight. -- SFH 16:37, 29 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Ferus Olin

 * Can Ferus be called a survivor of the Purge? There is a very big possiblity that he'll die in The Last of the Jedi series. He should be moved to the "Fates Unknown" list. Novajoe23 01:34, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, as of now, he's a survivor, but a quote from #2 ("I lie in your destiny" from Darth Vader) makes me think that he gets killed off. So, it would be best for the move. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 21:20, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that as long as he is known to be a survivor, he should be listed as such. Once the series confirms him as killed, however, he should be moved. - Angel Blue 451 19:54, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, he should be in "Fates Unknown", since his fate is currently unknown. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:06, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC)

bear clan?
should we add the bear clan as fate unkown?24.63.167.114 20:14, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)p.h
 * Wasn't the Bear Clan made up of younglings? All the younglings were killed. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:39, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)


 * but i once read that some of the bear clan survived. hasn't any one else read this comic!
 * All the younglings were killed by Vader. We have the movie to show us that. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:52, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Do we know that for sire that those younglings we saw were of the Bear Clan? It's best to look this up in the databank. - TopAce 20:59, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * It said in the Episode III Visual Dictionary that Anakin slaughtered all of the younglings, if I remember correctly. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:04, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Really? The databank says nothing about it, the number III is not even boldened. - TopAce 21:08, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it said it in the Visual Dictionary. But the Databank screws things up a lot. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:13, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)


 * I think we shuold change things until it is confirmed that it was the bear clan. I just watched ep.3 and there aren't any alian children in the concil chambers when vader walks in. could this mean that if it was the bear clan than some children like jempa and Ashla had been promoted to aprentices? like a jedi master in the cartoon clone wars said {forgot name} "we need as many jedi knights as posible. 24.63.167.114 22:34, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)p.h
 * Well, if they did become apprentices, they would most likely still have still been at the Temple, meaning Vader would have slaughtered them anyway. Admiral J. Nebulax 23:42, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)


 * Not nesesseraly. what if they were off fighting in the clone wars and escaped order 66? Quinlin vos, yoda,obi-wan,vima-da-boma{or something to that efect} survived whos to say they didn't? 24.63.167.114 02:03, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)p.h
 * Those were all extremely skilled Master's. You're talking about younglings, not even padawans. You have to except the fact that the Bear Clan was probably wiped out. Most likely by Darth Vader himself. And please do not cite that comic you say you read where Luke Skywalker met Jempa as proof of his survival. I'm not trying bite the anon's here, but you haven't named the comic itself, so you'll understand our skepticism. -- SFH 03:21, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)

sure. 24.63.167.114 13:17, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)p.h

One issue not addressed here is the "children of the Jedi" from the book of the same name. The NEC has re-classified them as surviving younglings (and simultaneously handed Barbara Hambly the Golden Greedo for most pre-prequel material retcons). No, Bear clan is not specifically mentioned, but younglings DID survive the Purge... somehow. Dangerdan97 05:09, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * "Somehow" is the key word there. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Saesee, Kit, Mace, Agen
Were they really the victims of the Purge? I don't think so, it started with the enaction of Order 66. They were killed before that happened. - TopAce 14:17, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * It could be argued that the Purge began with the so-called 'Jedi Rebellion'. These Masters died at Palpatine's hand, and since he began the Purge, they could be seen as the first casualties - Kwenn 14:18, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with the names remaining there, I just want to discuss it. All the comment I can write is that the Jedi Rebellion was not official, while the Purge was. The Jedi Rebellion was something that Palpatine used for something to accomplish his goals. It was not true that the Jedi wanted to overthrow the government, while the Purge did exist and had a very specific goal. - TopAce 14:26, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * These Jedi were the first to be exterminated as traitors to the lawfull goverment. That makes Agen Kolar the first Purge victim. --Master Starkeiller 14:27, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Kolar had the greatest honor of becoming the first Purge victim. That's funny. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:49, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Funny how Agen 'Hey-What's-That-Over-There-Huh?-What-Lightsa...' Kolar is not only the first victim but also the most undeserving of the accolade - Kwenn 20:55, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:56, 4 Jan 2006 (UTC)

AGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOMEONE deleted half of the survival unknown section!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * That "someone" was me. I took them out because Star Wars: Purge has confirmed them to be dead. QuentinGeorge 02:05, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * oh..............o.k
 * Chill out. If someone removed it, you don't have to make such a big deal out of it. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:09, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Even voloff monon or what ever his name is from the cartoon is dead??????? P.h 00:07, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)p.h
 * Probably. Admiral J. Nebulax 00:10, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

"Survivors"?
An'ya Kuro and Echuu Shen-Jon seems to be in the same category as Obi-wan. They lived until 1 ABY, but they died at Vader's hands. Ylenic It'kla was blown up by the Death Star, so while not killed by the Purge, he didn't really survive it either. Sian Jeisel's article says fate unknown, but I don't know whether it needs to be updated or the list of survivors does. Sia-Lan Wezz should be put in fate unknown, due to poor continuity. Linkman95 18:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It clearly says in the article when the Purge ended. All Jedi who died afterwards did not die in the Purge. Admiral J. Nebulax 18:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct - if they died 1 bby or later, they survived the Purge. QuentinGeorge 21:46, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * See? Admiral J. Nebulax 23:17, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think I must have read BBY as ABY. My bad. But that still doesn't explain Sian Jeisel or Sia-Lan Wezz. Linkman95 23:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sian Jeisel&mdash;survivor, Sia-Lan Wezz&mdash;victim. Admiral J. Nebulax 23:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Comparison between the Great Jedi Purge and the Holocaust
The Holocaust was the systematic annihilation of six million Jews by the Nazi regime during World War 2. In 1933 approximately nine million Jews lived in the 21 countries of Europe that would be occupied by Germany during the war. By 1945 two out of every three European Jews had been killed. The European Jews were the primary victims of the Holocaust.

But Jews were not the only group singled out for persecution by Hitler’s Nazi regime. As many as one-half million Gypsies, at least 250,000 mentally or physically disabled persons, and more than three million Soviet prisoners-of-war also fell victim to Nazi genocide. Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, Social Democrats, Communists, partisans, trade unionists, Polish intelligentsia and other undesirables were also victims of the hate and aggression carried out by the Nazis.

The Great Jedi Purge (also known as the Jedi Holocaust) was comparable to the Jewish Holocaust (see above), but was the entire annihilation of the Jedi Order by the Sith Lord Darth Sidious upon the formation of the Galactic Empire.

Why did Palpatine hate the Jedi? Holocaust happened because Palpatine call upon to the Jedi as a rebellion against the Galactic Republic. They believed the Jedi are conspired to create a shadow of seperatism using Dooku as the enemy's leader. They even tried to assassinate the head of government after Palpatine revealed as Darth Sidious. When the Galactic Empire came to power they eventually decided that the Jedi should be exterminated. - BryanSee
 * Okay, we knew why Palpatine hated the Jedi. He was a Sith Lord. And Palpatine made the Senate believe that the Jedi were enemies because of the "assassination attempt". The Senate didn't execute Order 66 and the Great Jedi Purge&mdash;Palpatine, the Sith Lord Darth Sidious, did. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:40, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Shaak killed by Vader?
I read in this article it says that Shaak Ti was killed by Darth Vader in the Jedi Temple. I remember on a deleted scene in Episode III that she was killed by Grievous on the Invisible Hand. Although in LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game she is cut down by Anakin in a hologram. Which one is true?Darthtyler 02:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Databank says she was killed by Vader during the Order 66 assault on the Temple. The hologram was meant to showcase this (I heard it was cut from the movie). She was originally going to die onboard Invisible Hand, but that got cut.TIEPilot051999 02:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * ...and replaced by this death. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 20:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Survivors
What I don't get is that we know some jedi like Kai Hudorra survived and went into hiding, so did K'Kruhk. So either they were later killed by Vader or others, or they survived. Does that mean that they'll appear in the Rebellion comic series due out later this year? We know that some Jedi survivors took part in the galactic civil war, although most gave their lives.
 * No, that doesn't mean they'll be in it. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 18:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Lucas-quote?
I see there's some debate about Lucas' own thoughts regarding the survival/demise of other Jedi besides Obi-Wan and Yoda in the Rebellion era. Now, I distinctly remember a quote from him in a magazine or interview, where he mentioned when asked, that "other Jedi did survive/could have survived, but the story of th films didn't focus on them". Anyone remember the source? VT-16 06:49, 7 April 2006 (PDT)