Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Corran Horn


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Corran Horn

 * Nominated by: Havac 21:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: This is most certainly not the longest article in the history of Wookieepedia. No. It is a very short article and I encourage you all to review it.

(5 Inq/5 Users/10 Total)
Support
 * 1)  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )[[Image:JaingHead.svg|20px]] 22:56, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Tom rules 09:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Imperialles 20:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) Great.  Chack Jadson  (Talk)  23:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) Great job, Havac. Besides a few minor mistakes I fixed myself, there was nothing wrong with this article despite its length. DC 22:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 6)  —Xwing328 (Talk) 02:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) DarthBlurrr (I Am the Chosen One) 13:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 8)  Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 09:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) The only outstanding objection I have is that annoyingly long appearance list. :P  02:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) Our long national nightmare is over. --  Darth Culator  (Talk) 02:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Imperialles's objections:
 * 2) * Image:BattleofThyferra-crop.jpg's infobox lacks some fields.
 * 3) *I'll put Image:ScreenShot0153.JPG on my to-do list (not an objection).
 * Image:Corran Horn 4.jpg is sort of distorted. Possible to remedy at all?
 * 1) **Replaced with Image:Njo Corran.png. -- Ozzel 06:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice work. --Imperialles 15:57, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) From the Cluttered Workspace of Jorrel Fraajic (Part 1 of 4)
 * First off, a comment. This is certainly one of the largest undertakings I have ever done on the Wook - reading this article, I mean. In fact, in order to even think of such a thing, I had to go off and print the content of the article (barring pictures and templates). At 8pt font, 0.12" margins (save for a 2" margin on the right), and with images and templates culled, I was able to squeeze the entire article into a convenient 40-page document, suitable for printing. Without modifications, the entire article is 111 pages long. 111. I must say that I am entirely impressed. And, all that to say... Inqs who are looking at this article and saying "Damn", I suggest that you do what I did, and print out the article, be it in small chunks or as a whole thing. In paper form, it's a whole lot easier to concentrate and make notations than on a computer screen. In fact, it only took me about an hour to read through 10 pages of my 40-page doc.
 * TL;DR version: Print out the damn article and review it already, Inqs. It's not that hard to read. :P
 * Secondly, another comment. I realize that, as I'm not an Inq, my vote really has no weight in this matter. That being said, I really wanted to review this article. Not because I'm looking for a way to push into the Inq-ing status, not because I feel like messing with Havac, but because I know (from personal experience) that an FAN that has nothing happening to it is worse to have running than an FAN with objections and the like, showing that it's not catatonic. Nothing is worse than having a stale FAN sitting for weeks on end without people even making an effort. Hence, my objection list is as follows (note that this is part 1 of 4. Article's long!):
 * 1) *INTRO
 * 2) ** Second paragraph, latter part. Make sure that you make the point that, after the Bacta Wars, Rogue Squadron reformed. As it stands now, you have "led Rogue Squadron in resigning", followed by "continued his career in Rogue Squadron"... without any mention of Rogue Squadron actually reforming.
 * 3) *BIOGRAPHY
 * 4) **Formative years
 * 5) *** Second paragraph, last sentence: Where does it come from? It doesn't seem to fit within the paragraph it's attached to.
 * 6) **Capturing Zekka Thyne
 * 7) *** I've noticed this throughout all of the scenes where Corran and Hal are working together: You use a lot of "Horn" where either Corran or Hal could be placed. For example, look at paragraph 3, first sentence: "Horn headed to the freighter, the Hopskip, with the others..." The reader isn't entirely sure which Horn you're talking about, until later in the paragraph. As I said before, this seems to be pretty prevalent throughout the father/son scenes. Is it possible to persuade you to use first names for clarification's sake?
 * 8) ****Alright, the explanation works. Stricken.
 * 9) **Living with loss
 * 10) *** Second "paragraph" (yeah, the one with two sentences) - any chance you can expand this, or group it together with a relevant thought? As it stands, it's pretty much just floating there.
 * 11) *** More instances of "Corran/Hal Horn" - which one is it, etc.
 * 12) *** Third paragraph, 4th sentence (ref'd [8]): "Morose and constantly reliving the past, Horn was only brought back to the present when Wessiri and Bastra got him into a cantina brawl, helping him focus himself on living his life now." - The now at the end of this sentence just feels too... present-tense. Perhaps a change to "in the present", or something similar?
 * 13) **Becoming a Rogue
 * 14) *** Rephrase first paragraph, last sentence. The use of the semicolon there just doesn't feel right. My suggestion is to remove the semicolon, and put a small phrase, "due to his thoughts on", or something to that extent.
 * 15) **Activation
 * 16) *** 4th paragraph, 4th sentence; the "shred" here feels informal. Can I get a more formal description of the Lancer's abilities?
 * 17) **Readying to strike
 * 18) *** Paragraph 4, Last Sentence: Has "Black Sunners" ever been used IU? If not, I'd prefer a "Black Sun members", or something to that extent.
 * 19) ****Intriguing.
 * 20) *Aaaaand... that's it! (Part 1). I went through and touched some things up myself. Very good read, very long read, but very well done. I'm impressed, jealous, angry, frustrated, proud, and happy, all at once, after reading through this article. Once again, excellent job Havac. 07:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 21) **Thanks to his notes on my talk page, all of Part 1 is resolved. 02:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 22) From the Red Book of Chack Jadson:
 * 23) *Right now, I'm only on Becoming a Rogue, but I'll get more done soon. Anyway, here's what I've got at this point.
 * 24) * Link the battles in the intro; there are several that could have links.
 * 25) * The prose in the first paragraph of drifting into danger is kind of dull.
 * 26) * You use the term cover identities twice in the first sentence of on the run.
 * 27) * The first two sentences of the last paragraph of on the run are also somewhat dull.
 * 28) *Ramble on.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 23:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 29) * In Captivity: "The guard struck Horn with his blaster, and Horn retaliated by reflexively throwing his bucket of gravel into the guard." (Use Ctl+F) The bucket part isn’t needed, IMO.
 * 30) * In the last sentence of this section, you mention there Dlarit escaped. I’d add something along the lines of, now revealed as a traitor.
 * 31) * "Almost all the rest of Rogue Squadron followed suit." Who didn’t? I thought they all did, but I’m likely wrong.
 * 32) * "In 19 ABY, Horn, by then promoted to the rank of commander, and the rest of the Rogues were attached to General Bel Iblis, and were on Morishim when an Imperial corvette, followed by an Imperial Star Destroyer, entered the system." This sentence should be split into two.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 17:43, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 33) From the Cluttered Workspace of Jorrel Fraajic (Part 2 of 4)
 * Yes, me again. Don't worry, not as long a listing as the last one, I promise. Just an aside to Havac: When/if you have addressed objections, or if you need to ask a question on one of them, please use my talk page. I pay more attention there (and I realize you're stuck in the IP mode again).
 * Onto the objections!
 * 1) *BIOGRAPHY
 * 2) **The Bacta War
 * 3) *** Last paragraph, 5th sentence: Reads really awkwardly, almost to the point of run-on.
 * 4) ****Nice job.
 * 5) **Battling Zsinj
 * 6) *** Third paragraph, last sentence: Whose archenemy, Corran's or Zsinj's? From information presented earlier in the article, this feels ambiguous.
 * 7) ****Explanation makes sense. Just glad you elaborated on the reasons.
 * 8) *** Ninth paragraph, 3rd sentence: You just "drop" a mention to Fel in here, without a link or any previous explanation of just who Fel is.
 * 9) ****Cool.
 * 10) **The return of Isard
 * 11) *** Minor note, not an objection: I reworded the end of the 6th paragraph and the start of the 7th to read slightly better (in my opinion). Feel free to change it back if you don't agree.
 * 12) ****Ugh, that's... bad. Thanks for the revert.
 * 13) **Becoming a Jedi
 * 14) *** First sentence, 4th sentence, end of sentence: It may just be me, but the line "...Tavira was travelling with enforcers who might be Force-sensitives." feels almost-present-tense. Please reword.
 * 15) ****Obviously, just me, based on the information you presented.
 * 16) *And part 2 is done. Much less than last time. I went ahead and touched up some things in Corran's article too. 04:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 17) **All objections from Review, Part 2 are satisfied, although I am slightly confused as to the reversion of many of my other edits as well. Just wondering. 02:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 18) Not an actual review:
 * 19) * "''Horn served as a Jedi instructor, training his two children, Valin and Jysella, before the Yuuzhan Vong War broke out. Horn served a vital role in it, defeating Shedao Shai&hellip;" This, particularly the "it," seems a bit off to me.
 * 20) * No mention is made that Horn helped hunt down Jedi during his time with CorSec, which is clearly stated in Horn's Fact File.
 * 21) **I will probably review at least some of this article at some point. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 21:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 22) From the overloaded cockpit of Xwing328
 * 23) *Formative years
 * 24) ** The 2 ABY paragraph flows poorly, as the sentences are completely unrelated.
 * 25) ** The Kirtan Loor paragraph seems out of place, especially as the preceding and following paragraphs are both related to specific 2 ABY events, and the Loor paragraph doesn't have a specific time frame. It almost seems like it should belong in the P&T.
 * 26) * "Horn was given the callsign Rogue Nine, and Qrygg served as his wingman." Does this make Qrygg Rogue Ten (if we even know, for that matter)?
 * 27) * "...Antilles had had Whistler..." Wording: can you change "had" to programmed, convinced, or whatever is actually appropriate?
 * 28) * "During the interview, he made an enemy of Remart Sasyru, a pilot in Bolt Squadron who acted hostile towards Horn and return was mercilessly heckled." Is this just missing a word? "...and in return?"
 * 29) * "...who he had seen kill his grandfather..." I think that little fragment is missing or word or two, too. My mistake. —Xwing328 (Talk) 02:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 30) From the Undisclosed Location of Darth Culator:
 * 31) *These will dribble in bit-by-bit as I read through this thing. Baby steps. First off, Image:Corran-jpn.jpg is inadequately sourced. Frankly, barring someone posting proper scans of these mythical Japanese novels, I think these should all be deleted. But first, it needs to be removed from your article unless you plan to do the research required to justify keeping it.
 * 32) * The fact that Horn hunted Jedi is not something to be hidden in the BTS. It is stated clearly and unequivocally in the Fact File and belongs in the CorSec portion of his bio. This is not meant to be a purely-flattering political fluff piece, we do not gloss over the ugly truths in our subject's history. We may not like Fact File retcons, but they are everywhere and we live with them. I do not see how anyone can justify excluding something like this, though I'm sure you're going to try. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 03:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 33) * No picture of Leonia Tavira anywhere. Seems like there should at least be one in the relationship section. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 17:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 34) * Not once do you refer to the actual class name of the Lusankya. This is an important expositional detail and I'm surprised it has been overlooked. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 18:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 35) From the underwater moffship of AdmirableAckbar:
 * 36) * "Horn has appeared in every novel written by Stackpole, and was the first and only character to narrate an entire Star Wars novel in the first person in I, Jedi, which told the story of Horn's Jedi training and has since been retconned into having the status of an in-universe document.[1][14][12][17][13][6][39][8][30]" &mdash; this is ridiculously unhelpful. Source it properly&mdash;by statement, not sentence.
 * 37) * Also, is there no BtS stuff from Stackpole interviews or anything?
 * 38) **BtS still looks a little sparse, but okay.
 * 39) * Channeling Toprawa here: please order the Sources list by OOU publication date. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) From the squadron briefing of Cavalier One:
 * 2) * You mention in the intro that he trained his own children to be Jedi - should they not be listed under Apprentices in the infobox?
 * 3) **He trained them as a teacher at the Praxeum -- there's no evidence they were actually formal apprentices. So I don't feel comfortable adding there. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) * Last paragraph of Capturing Zekka Thyne - when Hal is using his Force powers to fool Thyne into thinking he has removed his finger from the trigger, is there a specific Force power you could link this to?
 * 5) **I've linked it to mind trick. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) * Same paragraph - how did the Imperial forces come to be attacking the fortress? Did Thrawn/Kast arrange it?
 * 7) **Specified. Good catch. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) * Gathering her, her Rebel friends, and the crew of the Star's Delight together, they would attempt to escape on the restocked freighter, gathering all the Rebels together where Garqi's TIE complement could destroy them as they fled, ensuring a kill by sabotaging the ship's shields ahead of time. Horn would deliver the parts to the freighter, but in order to keep him from actually being on it, Barris would enter a notation of his execution in the Imperial system. Consider rewriting this section. These sentences are confusing and, although I know what happens since I've read the story, I feel readers who haven't will be confused.
 * 9) **I think I made it clearer. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) * Second to last paragraph of Battle of Borleias - why did Emtrey list Alderaanian products on the squadron's sell list to tip of Celchu and Terrik to the danger?
 * 11) **That was a case where I didn't want to get too technical, because the article is long enough already. Earlier in that section, it's established that Borleias has the Alderaan Biotics facility churning out black-market Alderaanian goods, so it shouldn't be too hard to put together. The whole thing is tangential to Corran, so I didn't want to get into "had compromised security because people might see the Alderaanian goods and connect them with the Alderaan Biotics facility and think the Rogues might be planning to strike at Borleias" -- it's too much exposition for something for the sake of explaining the explanation for why other people were in the system. It's not actually about Corran. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 12) * First paragraph of Readying to Strike - should the mention of the case involving the ROM passwords be mentioned earlier in the bio during the CorSec section? Chronologically, it pre-dates the Rogue Squadron mention.
 * 13) **That's a fair point, but I wanted to avoid too much of the "And Corran had a case involving X, and a case involving Y, and a case involving Z, and this is all we know" syndrome, especially when we have no dates attached at all and have to try to jumble it in amidst the proceeding story. It's a bit like saying, "At some point, Han Solo met Dash Rendar" in a 5-0 BBY section. You don't necessarily need that; you just bring up that Rendar was a smuggling acquaintance the first time Dash actually shows up in Han's narrative. Some stuff that doesn't have any relevance later in the article -- like escorting Wynssa Starflare -- is just kind of thrown vaguely in, because I'm not going to just not mention a case, but this slotted in nicely enough that I just left it there. If you feel strongly about it, I can try to fit it in. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 14) ***I see where you're coming from on this. - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 09:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 15) * When the stormtroopers are searching the room after Horn escapes Lusankya and fail to find him in the cupboard - is there any solid mention that this was an unconscious manifestation of the Force or is it only implied?
 * 16) **Hammer-over-the-head implied, down to the stormtrooper repeating the lines Corran is concentrating on in his head. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 17) * A little context on the Eidolon supply cache would be welcome.
 * 18) **Supplied. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 19) * Ditto on the War Frigate Valiant and its appearance in The Graveyard.
 * 20) **I tried to give some context without getting into the entire history of the Another Chance program. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 21) ***Understandable - I added a pipelink to Another Chance through the words "long-lost". - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 09:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 22) * And on how Cracken's A-wings assisted in the capture of the Virulence.
 * 23) **Done, I hope. That's another case where it was a choice of only a little context, or a big tangent. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 24) * I believe there is an article for the Gantoris-Skywalker duel, and, if so, it should be linked to.
 * 25) **Found and linked. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 26) * Needs an appropriate link to the Battle of Yaga Minor (Galactic Civil War) in the appropriate section.
 * 27) **Linked. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 28) * Second to last paragraph of Killik Conflict- is there an article concerning the Killik nests attempt to break the Fifth Fleet blockade? If so, it should be linked to.
 * 29) **Found and linked. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 30) * Third paragraph, Corellian Crisis - some context is needed on why Pellaeon is now serving the Galactic Alliance as Supreme Commander is needed.
 * 31) **That's a case where I think it definitely isn't. If it were Pellaeon's article, sure. In Corran's article, the Supreme Commander is the Supreme Commander and if you want to know why, you look in his article or in the Supreme Commander article. It's minor background detail; to explain it would just be a waste of time and space. I don't explain how Leia becomes chief of state either; it just happens "offscreen" in regards to the article and the reader either knows the wider context, simply accepts that a change has happened, or goes to the other character's article for clarification. I just don't want to drag the article down with "This bit player in this part of the narrative resigned and the character who is important to this part of the narrative stepped up. In case you're wondering, the bit player had gotten the job four years ago when the previous holder of the position died in office and the bit player, now being a member of the government in question, stepped up to the plate." Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 32) ***Conceded. - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 09:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 33) * Fifth paragraph, Corellian Crisis - context is needed on why the Love Commander and Calrissian are on Corellia.
 * 34) **I've clarified what the Love Commander is doing there, as it's not immediately apparent that it's the Solos' and Calrissian's transport. However, it's irrelevant to Corran's article why Leia is on Corellia; what's important is that she is, and they meet up and flee together. I did elucidate why they were raided, however, as that does play into Corran's narrative. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 35) * Sixth paragraph, Corellian Crisis - context is needed on who Myri Antilles is, and a link created to her article. - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 22:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 36) **There is a link to her article. It's in paragraph four. I did slightly expand her context there, though. Havac 03:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 37) From the long-overdue objection list of Jorrel Fraajic
 * 38) *Nothing at all for my 3rd part. Turns out after finally finishing my readthrough anything I was going to say had already been said, and corrected. Good job. 02:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) *Nothing at all for my 3rd part. Turns out after finally finishing my readthrough anything I was going to say had already been said, and corrected. Good job. 02:15, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * You crushed Palpatine. On another note, I assume you meant to support?  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 12:31, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why is every damn person on the Wook asking me about this? The vote doesn't mean anything. Havac 17:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * All right...  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * TL;DR. -- Ozzel 09:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically, now you haven't voted for it.  Master Aban Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow Havoc... and I thought it had gotten pretty long back when I was working on this... you blew that away, AND more or less re-did the entire article AND re-wrote it a lot better than my version. Anyways, while I'm probably not gonna be able to do much for at least a month until school gets out, just a couple quick things I noticed:
 * 1) Some of the section titles strike me as a bit unencyclopedic. For instance, "Supply run gone wrong" might want to be replaced by something like "Battle of Yag'Dhul" or "Return to Yag-prime," and "Drifting into danger" might want to be replaced with something like "Leaving CorSec." There are also some border-line section titles (Rogue rookie, Reign of terror)
 * 2) It could use some more pictures, especially in the the parts on Rogue Squadron and I, Jedi. That being said, having worked to this article before, I know there aren't a lot of pictures from that time of his life, so if you can't add any without making it seem really forced, that's fine.
 * 3) The lead quote is so long that it looks sorta unwieldy. You might want to think about trimming it down some.

Other than that, great Job!!!  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! ) 16:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Why has this article not been fully promoted it is better than quite a few others that are "Featured", it is well written, well put together in picture placement, and has everything else that makes it a worthy article, so lets be officially make it a Featured Article and move on to otherthings. Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )[[Image:JaingHead.svg|20px]] 16:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Please come back when you have a proper understanding of the process. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 20:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Despite my personal desires to respond in a similar fashion to your earlier comments, I will attempt to be polite as I re-phrase for you what I summed up earlier on the nominations page.
 * 1. The article is well written and very detailed.
 * 2. At least from my eyes the article is unbiased (I haven’t seen any comments that differ)
 * 3. It is well sourced
 * 4. I have seen nothing to indicate that it does not follow the manual of style or any of the others listed in item #4
 * 5. It is not the target of any ongoing edit wars
 * 6. It is not currently tagged
 * 7. It has a good summary that is not to long (considering the amount of data to cover)
 * 8. It currently has 0 red links in it
 * 9. It has significant amounts of info from all major appearances (and to my knowledge all minor as well)
 * 10. It has not (to my knowledge) been on the main page before
 * 11. It has been completely referenced
 * 12. Images and quotes are sourced
 * 13. It has an acceptable amount of quotes
 * 14 It includes a "personalities and traits" section
 * 15. It includes a "powers and abilities" section
 * 16. It includes a reasonable number of very good quality images
 * 17. I am not sure of but have heard nothing to indicate it has not
 * 18. It is certainly more than 1000 words long in the main article itself.