Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2016 September 10

[19:10] <@Toprawa> SOUND THE MOFFERENCE HORN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAF9tTM5i5Y [19:10] <@Toprawa> Welcome, everyone, to Mofference 2016 v. 2.0 [19:10] <@Toprawa> !hieverybody [19:10] <@Nuku-Nuku> Hello, AV-6R7, Brandon_Rhea, Cade, CC7567, ChanServ, CorellianPremier, Darth_Culator, DeFender1031, ecks, EJ-mobile, grunny, GT|away, Imperators, LO|Away, momoyome, Morbus, Nuku-Nuku, PurpleTentacle, Supreme_Emperor, Technobliterator, Tm_T, Toprawa, and Tyber !!! [19:10] <@Toprawa> I'll go quickly through the instructions [19:11] <@Toprawa> PurpleTentacle is our Mofference bot [19:11] <@Toprawa> For each proposal, everyone will either be muted or stay silent while the presenter is presenting [19:11] * ecks changes topic to 'Wookieepedia, the Space-Based Disagreements wiki - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status: Mofference 2: Electric Boogaloo' [19:11] <@Toprawa> Then we will open up the floor for discussions [19:11] <@Toprawa> Once we're done discussing, we will vote [19:11] <@Toprawa> I will open up the voting like so: [19:11] <@Toprawa> ~open [19:11] * Brandon_Rhea (~chatzilla@wikia/Brandon-Rhea) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:11] <@Toprawa> PurpleTentacle should be responding...but maybe he's muted [19:11] <@ecks> (he's not) [19:12] <@ecks> he's just slow [19:12] <@Toprawa> damnit [19:12] <@Toprawa> Ok, we're going to have to improvise [19:12] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [19:12] * Brandon_Rhea (~chatzilla@[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia [19:12] <@Toprawa> Normally, I would open it up like...that [19:12] <@Toprawa> And we would all vote using either ~support or ~oppose [19:12] <@Toprawa> ~support [19:12] <@Toprawa> Usually, he would count our votes [19:12] <@Toprawa> Then I would close it like so: [19:12] <@Toprawa> ~close [19:12] <@Toprawa> And then tally the votes: [19:12] <@Toprawa> ~tally [19:13] <@Toprawa> But PT isn't working.... [19:13] * ProfessorTofty ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/freenode/ip.[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia [19:13] <@Toprawa> Tofty, you're just in time [19:13] <@Toprawa> You don't have voice, so pay attention [19:13] <@Toprawa> It's *EXTREMELY* difficult to count everyone's votes without the benefit of a bot [19:13] <@Toprawa> So this is going to be our procedure: [19:13] <@Toprawa> You will vote using *ONLY* the following two comments: ~support or ~oppose [19:13] <@Toprawa> not ~support [19:14] <@Toprawa> *JUST* ~support [19:14] <@Toprawa> If you try to vote using anything else, Your. Vote. Will. Not. Be. Counted. [19:14] <@Toprawa> It's that simple [19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [19:14] <@PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 1 [19:14] <@Darth_Culator> XD [19:14] <@Toprawa> I'm just going to kick him [19:14] * ecks sets mode: -o PurpleTentacle [19:14] * ecks sets mode: +q PurpleTentacle!*@* [19:15] <@Toprawa> I'm going to say this again, because I *know* someone is going to do this wrong [19:15] <@Toprawa> When voting, you may only use TWO comments: [19:15] <@Toprawa> ~support [19:15] <@Toprawa> or [19:15] <@Toprawa> ~oppose [19:15] <@Toprawa> NOT ~support Yes, I think this will work well [19:15] <@Toprawa> Just ~support [19:15] <@Toprawa> Got it? [19:15] <@Toprawa> Good/ [19:15] <@Toprawa> I think we're ready to go. [19:15] <@Toprawa> Admins, are we ready? [19:16] <@ecks> HUA [19:16] <@CC7567> Yup [19:16] <@Cade> Si [19:16] <@Supreme_Emperor> For the next 5 minutes, yes [19:16] <@Darth_Culator> HOORJ [19:16] <@Toprawa> Ok [19:16] <@Toprawa> Here we go. [19:16] <@Toprawa> Open up the Mofference page if you haven't already, everyone [19:16] <@Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Mofferences [19:16] <@Toprawa> Item 1, Toprawa has the floor [19:16] <@Toprawa> Examining IRC rules. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:45, September 1, 2016 (UTC) [19:17] <@Toprawa> Our IRC channel is our official chat room [19:17] <@Toprawa> It's an official extension of our wiki and should be duly treated as such [19:17] <@Toprawa> While we have a set of "rules" for how to behave in here, those have mostly just been unofficial guidelines [19:17] <@Toprawa> Here they are, btw: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:IRC#Rules [19:18] <@Toprawa> I have written up an expanded version of this section that codifies our longstanding procedures for how we operate in here. [19:19] <@Toprawa> It covers everything from standardizing flags, aka channel rights, to how users may request and handle WookieeProject subchannels [19:19] <@Toprawa> I think we're long overdue for making these procedures official [19:19] <@Toprawa> I present them to you here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca [19:19] <@Toprawa> And I will give everyone a few minutes to read through that [19:19] <@Toprawa> In the meantime, the floor is now open for discussion and questions [19:19] * ecks sets mode: -m [19:19] <@Toprawa> Any redlinks will be fixed, btw [19:19] <@Toprawa> I think there's one [19:20]  Sorry, but regarding the voting, are we not allowed to cast an "abstain" vote this time around? [19:20] <@Cade> Looks solid. [19:20] <@Toprawa> If you're abstaining, don't even say anything [19:20] <@ecks> just be quiet if you're abstaining [19:20] <@Toprawa> You don't need to tell us you're abstaining [19:20]  Okay, thanks. [19:20] <@ecks> yeah, looks good to me [19:20]  Looks good on the IRC rules. [19:20] <@Supreme_Emperor> Full support [19:21]  ^ [19:21] <@CC7567> No concerns here [19:21] <@Supreme_Emperor> On that bombshell, back to the floor, where I hope my part timers are not screwing around. [19:21]  Heh! [19:21] <@Supreme_Emperor> Good night all [19:21]  Good night. [19:21] <@Toprawa> SE, your vote doesn't count until we open voting [19:21] <@Supreme_Emperor> I know [19:21] <@Toprawa> If you can wait...like...60 seconds [19:22]  Can there be an allowance for playing around with wording? I like the actual rules but, since its an official policy, I think the language ("Don't be a dick," "No whining") could be cleaned up a little. Though this isn't a deal breaker. [19:22] <@Supreme_Emperor> I'll take a moment to "check the email in the office" [19:22]  *playing around with the wording later [19:22]  I'd be for that. There are more polite ways to say "don't be a dick." [19:22] <@ecks> I'd be ok with changing DBAD to "Be nice" but either way is fine [19:22] <@Toprawa> It's not that we can't change it, I just don't want to get into trifling things like nitpicking wording right now [19:22] <@Toprawa> We've got a long time meeting ahead of us [19:22]  Yeah that's why I clarified for later. [19:22] <@Toprawa> Minor revisions can be explored, of course [19:22]  Very true. [19:23]  So we can move ahead. [19:23]  Cool [19:23] <@Toprawa> If anyone has any questions, please speak now [19:23] <@Toprawa> Otherwise I'm ready to open the voting for SE's sake :P [19:23] <@Toprawa> Ok, the voting will open as per the instructions and will close as such [19:23] <@Toprawa> ~open [19:23] <@Cade> ~support [19:23] <@ecks> ~support [19:23]  ~support [19:23]  ~support [19:23]  ~support [19:23] <@CC7567> ~support [19:23] <CorellianPremier> ~support [19:23] <@Toprawa> ~support [19:24] <Imperators> ~support [19:24] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [19:24] <@Toprawa> Voting will close in 10 seconds [19:24] <@Toprawa> Vote now or else [19:24] <@EJ-mobile> ,suppo [19:24] <@Toprawa> ~close [19:25] <@Toprawa> I'll accept typos [19:25] <@Toprawa> EJ's on his phone anyways [19:25] <@Toprawa> He's having some technical issues [19:25] <@grunny> ~support [19:25] <@grunny> ;) [19:25] <@Toprawa> Sorry, grunny [19:25] <@Toprawa> We're closed [19:25] <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 11-0 [19:25] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [19:26] * ecks sets mode: +m [19:26] <@Toprawa> ecks has the floor for Item 2 [19:26] <@ecks> alright [19:26] <@ecks> a while ago I found RelatedCategories [19:26] <@ecks> !wiki Template:RelatedCategories [19:26] <@Nuku-Nuku> ecks: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template%3ARelatedCategories [19:26] * @Supreme_Emperor (~androirc@wookieepedia/administrator/Supreme-Emperor) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [19:26] <@ecks> its use is not codified anywhere but it was still used in articles [19:26] <@ecks> it basically provides a link to categories without adding the page to that category [19:27] <@ecks> basically like a navigational aid [19:27] <@ecks> for example you can have links to Cat:Foo system planets on the bottom of Foo system without including the system in the planet category [19:27] <@ecks> which is quite logical [19:27] <@ecks> I therefore suggest we include a bullet point about RelatedCategories in the LG, Category section [19:27] <@ecks> http://starwars.wikia.com/?oldid=6430943 [19:27] <@ecks> floor is open [19:27] * ecks sets mode: -m [19:27] <@Cade> One of my category ideas I came up with, yeah. [19:28] <@Cade> I'm all for making it official [19:28] <Brandon_Rhea> Opposed on account of it's Cade's idea. ;) [19:28] <@Cade> pls [19:28] <@CC7567> Looks good [19:28] <@ecks> to clarify, this would ONLY be used where the article in question definitely doesn't belong in category [19:28] <ProfessorTofty> So what we would say about it? Basically that it's a helpful aid, but make sure the category's you're adding are reasonably related? [19:28] <@ecks> for example, concussion missile launcher DOES belong in Category:Concussion missile launchers [19:29] <@ecks> but Atrivis sector does NOT belong in Category:Atrivis sector planets because the sector is not a planet [19:29] <AV-6R7> So, say I wanted to have http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kyuzo link to Category:Kyuzo, I should use RelatedCat? [19:29] <@Cade> His last bullet point on the linked page, Tofty [19:29] <@Cade> No. [19:29] <@CC7567> AV: Kyuzo should already be in Category:Kyuzo, so RelatedCat is redundant [19:29] <ProfessorTofty> Ah, I see now. [19:29] <@ecks> yes [19:29] <@Toprawa> Basically, don't even worry about its application [19:29] <@Toprawa> Someone will know how to use it [19:29] <@Cade> This is for instances like the categories that Imperators has been making [19:29] <@Toprawa> It's really just coding procedure [19:30] <@Cade> ^ [19:30] <@ecks> maybe if there was Category:Kyuzo clothing or something [19:30] <AV-6R7> Okay, just wanted some clarification on species. Thanks! [19:30] <@ecks> then relatedcat could be used [19:30] <@ecks> because the species is not clothing, but it's related [19:30] <AV-6R7> What about Cateogry:Kyuzo culture? [19:30] <ProfessorTofty> That sounds like a good use for it to me. [19:30] <@Cade> Yeah, Category:Wookiee culture on Wookiee [19:30] <@Toprawa> Let's not debate application, guys [19:30] <@Toprawa> We could be here forever [19:30] <@ecks> vote now [19:30] <@Toprawa> This isn't meant to codify application, it's just coding procedure [19:30] <ProfessorTofty> Right! I agree, vote now. [19:30] <AV-6R7> VOTE NOW! [19:31] <@Cade> Are you counting or is ecks, Tope?\ [19:31] <@Toprawa> We both are [19:31] <@Toprawa> You can count too [19:31] <@Toprawa> I'm bad at math [19:31] <@ecks> heh [19:31] <@Cade> Heh, alrighty [19:31] <@CC7567> Aren't we all [19:31] <@Toprawa> Ok, opening up ecks' proposal... [19:31] <@Toprawa> ~open [19:31] <@ecks> ~support [19:31] <@CC7567> ~support [19:31] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [19:31] <AV-6R7> ~support [19:31] <@Toprawa> ~support [19:31] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [19:31] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [19:31] <CorellianPremier> ~support [19:31] <@Cade> ~support [19:31] <Imperators> ~support [19:31] <@grunny> ~support [19:31] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [19:31] * IFYLOFD (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/IFYLOFD) has joined #wookieepedia [19:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o IFYLOFD [19:31] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o IFYLOFD [19:32] <@Toprawa> Just say ~support, Floyd :P [19:32] <@IFYLOFD> ~support [19:32] <@Toprawa> I think that's everyone, so... [19:32] <@Toprawa> ~close [19:32] <@Toprawa> That's 13-0 in support [19:32] <@CC7567> Hahaha Floyd [19:32] <@Toprawa> Floyd, the bot is dead, so we're doing this manually [19:32] <@Cade> good lord I couldn't get that blasted tilde character [19:32] <@Toprawa> Just follow basic procedure [19:32] <@Cade> Floyd just supported something made by me [19:32] <@Cade> mwahah [19:32] <@Toprawa> Ok, the floor goes back to ecks [19:32] <@ecks> ok, quick note here: [19:32] * ecks sets mode: +m [19:33] <@ecks> the LG has full stops after bullet points in half the sections [19:33] <@ecks> and the other half doesn't [19:33] <@ecks> so I just want to have some consistency [19:33] <@ecks> 1. always full stops [19:33] <@ecks> 2. never full stops [19:33] <@ecks> 3. only complete sentences [19:33] * ecks sets mode: -m [19:33] <@ecks> floor is open [19:33] <@Toprawa> I don't think it's necessarily that cut and dry [19:33] <@Toprawa> Some bullet points are multiple sentences [19:33] <ProfessorTofty> LG - Layout Guide? [19:33] <@ecks> yes [19:34] <@Toprawa> The ones that are single sentences don't need to have them IMO [19:34] <@Toprawa> The ones that are multiple sentences should [19:34] <@Darth_Culator> let's. just. use. a. lot. of. unnecessary. periods. [19:34] <@CC7567> Complete sentences are preferable, depending on the content [19:34] <@CC7567> Yeah, per Tope [19:34] <@Darth_Culator> Also We Can Capitalize Everything [19:34] <@ecks> That sounds fine to me; I'm not even sure this needs a vote [19:34] <@ecks> just wanted some opinions [19:35] <@ecks> I can go over the LG later and make it consistent throughout if that's okay [19:35] <@Cade> ^ [19:35] <@Toprawa> I honestly don't think we should codify something so, well, unimportant [19:35] <@CC7567> Sure. General copy-editing the LG doesn't need a vote [19:35] <ProfessorTofty> I don't see why not. As nothing is being changed procedurally. [19:35] <AV-6R7> Sounds goo to me. [19:35] <AV-6R7> *good [19:35] <@Toprawa> Go ahead, ecks [19:35] <@ecks> yes, I'm ok with moving on [19:35] * ecks sets mode: +m [19:35] <@Toprawa> Ok [19:36] <@Toprawa> Forgive me if I take a few seconds [19:36] <@Toprawa> I'm switching through a lot of tabs [19:36] <@Toprawa> Item 3, Toprawa [19:36] <@Toprawa> Article naming between Canon and Legends subjects. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:30, September 7, 2016 (UTC) [19:36] <@Toprawa> Ok [19:36] <@Toprawa> Some time ago, we drew up a nice section of the Naming policy determining how to disambiguate competing titles [19:37] <@Toprawa> But then Canon came along [19:37] <@Toprawa> And we've been faced with an increasing number of article collisions between Canon and Legends subjects [19:37] <@Toprawa> For example, someone in Canon named Bob and someone in Legends named Bob [19:38] <@Toprawa> In the instance the subject is the same, we've just been applying /Legends to the Legends article title [19:38] <@Toprawa> But what happens if they aren't the same subject? [19:38] <@Toprawa> Like...Bob the Canon character and Bob the Legends species [19:38] <@Toprawa> What do we then? [19:38] <@Toprawa> At present, we don't have an answer [19:38] <@Toprawa> But luckily, we're all smart people here and we can pass a new amendment to cover these types of things [19:39] <@Toprawa> I will begin the proposal by showing you this section: [19:39] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Naming_policy#Canon_and_Legends [19:39] <@Toprawa> Good as it is, it's missing a few items [19:40] <@Toprawa> This http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca#Canon_and_Legends is my proposal to amend it, namely the last two paragraphs (ignore the other parts of my workpage for now) [19:40] <@Toprawa> This is probably going to best be done in parts, so I'll open up the floor for this, Part 1 [19:40] <@Toprawa> ecks [19:40] * ecks sets mode: -m [19:41] <@Toprawa> This part is pretty straightforward [19:41] <@CC7567> Sounds like a sensible solution [19:41] <@Toprawa> It's really just talking about redirects [19:41] <@Cade> So we're just looking at the Canon and Legends part, right [19:41] <@Toprawa> Yes [19:41] <ProfessorTofty> I think it's the way to go. We've been going canon by precedence for a while now, linking canon on article pages, etc., so it makes sense. I say yes. [19:41] <AV-6R7> So we're just codifying the CT decision on Redirects? [19:41] <@Toprawa> No [19:42] <AV-6R7> NVRMD [19:42] <@Toprawa> Basically, this is the operative paragraph of that section: "Alternatively, a Legends subject may use as its article title a name that would otherwise be a redirect to its Canon counterpart (example: Palpatine is the title of the Legends article rather than redirecting to Darth Sidious). " [19:42] <@ecks> this seems pretty good [19:42] <@Toprawa> The first one is already on the policy page, I Just changed it to a better exampel [19:42] <@Toprawa> And the third paragraph is from the CT [19:43] <@Cade> Sounds good [19:43] <AV-6R7> Looks good. [19:43] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah, looks good. [19:43] <Brandon_Rhea> We may want to revisit that in the future from an SEO perspective, but in the absence of a broad policy answer for that, I'd support this. [19:43] <AV-6R7> God, that Ackbar example's still there? [19:43] <@Cade> Hey now [19:44] <@Toprawa> That's why we're changing it [19:44] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah, SEO. We never did move Darth Maul, did we? [19:44] <@Toprawa> It was relevant when this section was written [19:44] <AV-6R7> Of course. [19:44] <@Toprawa> Ok, let's keep this show moving, then [19:44] <@Toprawa> Opening up... [19:44] <@Toprawa> ~open [19:44] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [19:44] <AV-6R7> ~support [19:44] <@Cade> ~support [19:44] <@ecks> ~support [19:44] <@Toprawa> ~support [19:44] <Imperators> ~support [19:44] <@IFYLOFD> ~support [19:44] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [19:44] <CorellianPremier> ~support [19:44] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [19:45] <@CC7567> ~support [19:45] <@Toprawa> Voting closes in 10 seconds [19:45] <@Toprawa> Vote now [19:45] <@Toprawa> ~close [19:45] <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 11-0 [19:45] <@Toprawa> Ok, Part 2 of this vote [19:45] <@Toprawa> Is the bottom of that workpage I linked for you [19:45] <@Toprawa> ecks, silence, please [19:45] * ecks sets mode: +m [19:46] <@Toprawa> Thank you [19:46] <@Toprawa> In the absence of any policy for how to handle naming collisions between continuities, we've been reverting to the Disambiguation section of the Naming policy [19:46] <@Toprawa> But that section was never meant to apply to cross-continuity cases [19:46] <@Toprawa> Based on that, we have cases like Rill, as I have linked in that work page [19:47] <@Toprawa> Right now, we're giving precedence to the Legends species over the Canon character, which is silly [19:47] <@Toprawa> So what I am proposing is to turn the Disambiguation section of the Naming policy into two subsections [19:47] <@Toprawa> The first will be "Disambiguation by continuity" and that will cover everything currently on the page, as well as this line: "The following section applies exclusively to intra-continuity disambiguation cases. Do not apply these rules to cross-continuity cases." [19:48] <@Toprawa> The second subsection will be how to disambiguate between continuities [19:48] <@Toprawa> I will say right now that this section is only a baby right now [19:48] <@Toprawa> As we get more Canon material, we're invariably going to have more situations arise that we need to add to this section [19:48] <@Toprawa> Right now, I'm just setting up its groundwork [19:48] <@Toprawa> The redlinks in my work page represent where articles will be moved to if this proposal passes [19:49] <@Toprawa> I will say now that I anticipate in the future possibly needing to add a clause regarding certain Legends subjects taking precedence over Canon subjects [19:49] <@Toprawa> For example [19:50] <@Toprawa> If some completely forgettable ship that isn't at all related to the KOTOR version is named "Ebon Hawk," the Legends version should occupy Ebon Hawk, and the Canon page should be titled Ebon Hawk (starship) or something. [19:50] <@Toprawa> But I don't think we should codify anything like that yet, because I don't think any examples even yet exist [19:50] <@Toprawa> It's a great discussion to have, but I say we cross that bridge when we get there [19:50] <@Toprawa> In the meantime, just concentrate on this proposal and the work page's text [19:50] <@Toprawa> Ok, ecks [19:50] * ecks sets mode: -m [19:50] <ProfessorTofty> It makes sense, basically. Given the new continuity, people would expect to see the canon character when they visit "Rill." [19:50] <@Cade> Hrmmm. [19:50] <Brandon_Rhea> Yup. [19:50] <AV-6R7> Of course. [19:51] <CorellianPremier> Phoenix Squadron is such an example [19:51] <@Cade> That particular case is an oddity [19:51] <@CC7567> Just to clarify: If there's a canon subject, an unrelated Legends subject, and also a disambiguation page, then the disambiguation page will be at Article name (disambiguation), correct? [19:51] <@CC7567> As in, we won't be giving precedence to disambiguation pages for cross-continuity subjects? [19:51] <@Toprawa> Correct [19:51] <@CC7567> Ok [19:51] <@Cade> The Legends Rill trumps the Canon Rill because Legends Rill is a species, and species/planets trump everything. [19:51] <AV-6R7> Will we codify canon/Legends disambiguation on disambiguation at some point? For example, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gand_(disambiguation) [19:51] <@Cade> At least that's what it currently is. [19:52] <@Toprawa> That's the current procedure, Cade, yes [19:52] <@ecks> Canon species/planets > Canon everything else > Legends species/planets > Legends everything else [19:52] <@Toprawa> I'm not sure I understand your question, AV [19:52] <@Cade> I'm also a bit reluctant on this because I see something happening [19:52] <ProfessorTofty> I think what AV means is a set way in which such items would be listed on disambiguation pages. [19:53] <AV-6R7> How should we break up disambig pages with both Legends and canon pages. [19:53] <AV-6R7> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endor_(disambiguation) [19:53] <@Toprawa> Just divide it [19:53] <@Toprawa> Use sections [19:53] <@ecks> That's a separate discussion [19:53] <AV-6R7> I see. [19:53] <@Toprawa> What's the deal, Cade? [19:53] <@Cade> We move all these random NuCanon articles to the root title because they're the only NuCanon article with that name, but then a month later something else comes out and adds a character with the same name [19:53] <@Toprawa> Well, that's the same situation we ever faced with Legends [19:53] <@Cade> So we have to move the disambig back to the root. [19:53] * DrBallMD (~DrBallMD@wikia/Dr-Ball-MD) has joined #wookieepedia [19:53] <@Toprawa> New stories come out, and we move articles [19:54] <@ecks> this is why we have bots [19:54] <@Toprawa> We live in very fluid times [19:54] <@CC7567> I don't think we can account for future material that we don't know about [19:54] <@Cade> I know, but in this case it'd be us moving them now, then moving 'em back [19:54] <ProfessorTofty> Even if sometimes the bots blow up. [19:54] <@Cade> yeah, fair enough [19:54] <@ecks> EcksBot will handle all the things [19:54] <@Cade> RoboCade has been complaining about new namespaces, but he's never blown up [19:54] <@Cade> EcksBot sucks [19:54] <@Cade> I'm good. [19:55] <@Toprawa> So, basically, I want to point this out just so we're 100% clear: [19:55] <@Toprawa> To use Rill as the example [19:55] <@Toprawa> If next month, a new Canon species named Rill comes out, the Canon Rill character will need to disambiguate based on the intra-continuity Disambiguation rules [19:55] <@Toprawa> Basically, start with the Cross-continuity, and then go to Intra-continuity if need be [19:55] <@Toprawa> Does that make sense? [19:56] <@CC7567> Yep [19:56] <AV-6R7> Yeah [19:56] <@ecks> yeah [19:56] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah. [19:56] <Brandon_Rhea> No [19:56] <Brandon_Rhea> (Kidding) [19:56] * @ecks slaps Brandon_Rhea around a bit with a large trout [19:56] <@Toprawa> Thank you [19:56] <@Toprawa> Ok, opening up the floor for voting [19:56] <@Toprawa> ~open [19:56] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [19:56] <@ecks> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ecks [19:56] <AV-6R7> ~support [19:56] <Imperators> ~support [19:56] <@CC7567> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [19:56] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [19:56] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [19:56] <@Toprawa> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [19:56] <@ecks> this is the FUTURE [19:56] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [19:56] <@Cade> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [19:56] <@Darth_Culator> ooh [19:56] <@grunny> ~support [19:56] <@CC7567> Huzzah! [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [19:56] <@Toprawa> Grunny, you win 1 million points [19:56] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [19:56] <CorellianPremier> ~support [19:56] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [19:57] * Cwedin ([REDACTED]@gateway/web/freenode/ip.[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia [19:57] <@Darth_Culator> I don't actually care, but I like this bot. [19:57] <AV-6R7> Yes. [19:57] <@Toprawa> ~close [19:57] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [19:57] <@Toprawa> ~tally [19:57] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [19:57] <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 12-0 [19:57] <ProfessorTofty> Nice. [19:57] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [19:57] * ecks sets mode: +m [19:57] <@Toprawa> ECKS [19:57] <@ecks> hello yes [19:58] <@ecks> ok, this item is gonna cover two things actually [19:58] <@ecks> QOTD and Wookieenews [19:58] <@ecks> both have not been on the MP in a while [19:58] <@ecks> and as such have been more or less completely abandoned [19:58] <@ecks> it's a sad moment but I think it's time to officially retire these features [19:59] <@ecks> so I propose creating and officially retiring QOTD and Wookieenews [19:59] * ecks sets mode: -m [19:59] <@ecks> floor is open [19:59] * @Cade throws stuff at Floyd [19:59] <Imperators> sad [19:59] <@Toprawa> QOTD has had a nice run, but it's fallen into disuse [19:59] <@IFYLOFD> I have been the QOTD Man for many a year. [19:59] <ProfessorTofty> Well, I was the one who brought up in the Senate Hall about retiring Wookieenews, so yeah, I say time for it to go. [19:59] <@Toprawa> It's like pulling teeth trying to get people to vote [19:59] <@ecks> I'd be glad to bring it back if it existed on the MP [19:59] <AV-6R7> Can we not just adopt a QOTD showcase like Status articles? [19:59] <@IFYLOFD> And I believe that it is time to give it a merciful death. [19:59] <@Toprawa> Like ecks said, QOTD hasn't even been on the MP for like a year now, and no one has even noticed [19:59] <@ecks> but there's literally zero point to have it if it's not on the MP [19:59] <@Darth_Culator> Couldn't we make a random quote box like the random FA? [19:59] <@Cade> Yeah, I wouldn't mind having it on the Main Page and having it randomized [20:00] <ProfessorTofty> Regarding QOTD, what about just having a curator? Is something that absolutely needs a vote? Maybe it could just be posted by a chosen expert or experts? [20:00] <@Darth_Culator> Take the pressure off maintenance. [20:00] <@ecks> the thing is that it's not on the MP [20:00] <@Cade> I think I actually started on that at one point [20:00] <@ecks> it's pretty easy to randomize it yes [20:00] <@ecks> but that requires having an actual slot on the MP [20:00] <@Cade> Well, if we got a randomizer, would people be willing to put it back on the Main Page? [20:00] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah, I'd be for that. [20:00] <Brandon_Rhea> I can tell you that I've seen plenty of social media comments from readers wondering where QOTD is, so I think a randomized box would be a nice thing for readers. [20:00] <@Cade> Brandon/Tope, is there room/can room be made? [20:01] <ProfessorTofty> As for the news, it's' still linked from the mainpage, but is otherwise absent. [20:01] <@Toprawa> I would say I'm willing to put it on the MP with the caveat that we probably should move it down in the page in the future [20:01] <AV-6R7> Sounds good, but would we retain the nom process to add new ones? [20:01] <Brandon_Rhea> Yeah, I'd agree with Tope on that. [20:01] <@CC7567> Moving it down on the page is fine [20:01] <@ecks> also you better watch out for including this in the randomizer: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Quote_of_the_Day/29_July_2006 [20:01] <@Toprawa> QOTD right now, if it was there, takes up our most valuable real estate on the MP and for very little advantage [20:01] <@Cade> hah [20:01] <Brandon_Rhea> It should be a lower box in the larger left column, rather than the right-hand column. [20:01] <@Cade> hahahahah [20:01] <@Toprawa> I've always wanted to add an image element to the QOTD box, but I've been told it's difficult to do [20:01] <@Toprawa> If we move it down in the page, it might become easier to set up [20:02] <@CC7567> (Maybe we should just delete that quote) [20:02] <@Cade> I can make a randomizer, and you guys can do what you want with it on the Main Page. [20:02] <@CC7567> Tope: an image to go along with each quote? [20:02] <@Toprawa> Ideally, yes [20:02] <@Cade> hmmm. [20:02] <ProfessorTofty> Probably couldn't in all cases, but most. [20:02] <@Cade> I don't know how consistent that would be [20:02] <@CC7567> I'd be for it, but it would take a lot of manual labor [20:02] <@Toprawa> For things that don't have images, we can use the cover image of the source [20:02] <@ecks> that's why we have Cade [20:02] <@Cade> Hmmm. [20:02] <@Cade> >_> [20:03] <@Cade> That.... might be possible [20:03] <@ecks> I think details on this would probably be best discussed in the SH [20:03] <ProfessorTofty> Agreed. [20:03] <@ecks> otherwise we're gonna be here all night [20:03] <AV-6R7> Agreed. [20:03] <@CC7567> Yeah, not here at the Mofference [20:03] <@Toprawa> So I'm gathering the idea here is to re-add QOTD to the MP as a randomized queue, which Cade will set up, with the caveat that we can revise/move it later [20:03] <@Cade> If I had it check the |src= field and then scrape the first File off the top of the linked article. [20:03] <@Toprawa> Yes? [20:03] <@Cade> Yeah [20:03] <@CC7567> Yeah [20:03] <@ecks> something like that yes [20:04] <@Toprawa> Let's open up voting for that, then [20:04] <@Toprawa> ~open [20:04] <@Cade> At the very least it'll be a randomized thing, and the image can come later if it's more complex. [20:04] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [20:04] <@Cade> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [20:04] <@CC7567> ~support [20:04] <@ecks> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ecks [20:04] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [20:04] <@Toprawa> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [20:04] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [20:04] <Imperators> ~support [20:04] <@grunny> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [20:04] <Cwedin> ~support [20:04] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [20:04] <AV-6R7> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [20:04] <@IFYLOFD> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for IFYLOFD [20:04] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [20:04] <@Toprawa> ~close [20:04] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [20:04] <@Toprawa> ~tally [20:04] <DrBallMD> Support: 13; Oppose: 0 [20:04] <@Toprawa> Vote passes, 13-0 [20:04] <@Toprawa> The other item from ecks was WookieeNews [20:05] <@Toprawa> We recently had a SH where people voiced approval to archive it and shut the page down [20:05] <@Toprawa> We don't need a vote if we can all agree to do this [20:05] <@Toprawa> So, any objections? [20:05] <@ecks> nope [20:05] <@Cade> Nope. [20:05] <@CC7567> None [20:05] <ProfessorTofty> I liked it, but it's been pretty much supplanted by the social media stuff. No objection here. [20:05] <AV-6R7> No objections. Kill it kindly. [20:05] <Brandon_Rhea> Nope, it's redundant to the slider and (in a broader sense) Fandom.com articles highlighted on the wiki. [20:05] <@Cade> Tope won't have to keep Dentface from spamming it anymore [20:05] <@Toprawa> Ok, we'll note in the minutes a general approval to do this, and then we will take care of it [20:05] <ProfessorTofty> Heh. [20:05] <@Toprawa> Quite right [20:05] <@CC7567> Ha [20:05] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [20:05] * ecks sets mode: +m [20:06] <@Toprawa> Toprawa [20:06] <@Toprawa> I realize we've got some late-nighters, so I'll try to make this as brief as possible [20:06] <@Toprawa> We codified how to name novels [20:06] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Naming_policy#Novels_and_books [20:06] <@Toprawa> We agreed to omit the Star Wars: prefix in most cases except where noted [20:07] <@Toprawa> The rationale for doing so was basically two-fold [20:08] <@Toprawa> A) This follows our precedent, and B) This is our official sources also treat these items [20:08] <@Toprawa> eh [20:08] <@Toprawa> b) [20:08] <@Toprawa> I propose we do the same for individual Comic titles [20:08] <@Toprawa> For the same reasoning [20:08] <@Toprawa> The only difference is that we're kind of all over the board with Comic titles [20:08] <@Toprawa> Half of our comic issues do include Star Wars and half don't [20:08] <@Toprawa> There are so freaking many of them, we kind of just lost sight of what were doing, I think [20:09] <@Toprawa> For novels, our rationale was following The Essential Reader's Companion [20:09] <@Toprawa> For comic issues, our rationale is the same, following Dark Horse publications like Star Wars: The Comics Companion and the different volumes of Star Wars: Panel by Panel [20:09] <@Toprawa> This proposal will extend to Canon issues as well, just as the Novels policy extends to Canon novels [20:10] <@Toprawa> This is for the sake of consistency [20:10] <@Toprawa> All our Canon issues can be moved just as easily as Legends issues can [20:11] <@Toprawa> One sec... [20:11] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Naming_policy#Comics_and_magazines [20:11] <@Toprawa> Here is our current Naming section on Comics and magazines [20:11] <@Toprawa> I am proposing moving this into a subsection of Literary works on that page next to Novels [20:11] <@Toprawa> Complete with the following: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca [20:11] <@Toprawa> ecks [20:12] * ecks sets mode: -m [20:12] * @Cade takes another hiatus [20:12] <@Cade> Good lord [20:12] <@Cade> I entirely agree [20:12] <@CC7567> B) [20:12] <@CC7567> But yes, I agree [20:12] <@Cade> But so much botwork [20:12] <@ecks> ye [20:12] <@Cade> I remember the first time :P [20:12] <ProfessorTofty> I assume this applies to trade paperbacks as well? I.E. Star Wars: Obi-Wan and Anakin (TPB) would become Obi-Wan and Anakin (TPB)? [20:12] <@Cade> ^ [20:12] <@Toprawa> NO [20:12] <@Toprawa> Read the policy [20:12] <@Toprawa> Individual comic issues *only* [20:12] <@Toprawa> "The preceding rule does not apply to comic series, story arcs, trade paperbacks, or any other compendium publication not typically included in an article's Appearances list. These articles shall include "Star Wars" in their titles. " [20:12] <@Toprawa> There's no reason why those should not have the full, formal nomenclature [20:13] <ProfessorTofty> Hmm, maybe, but that feels weird to me. [20:13] <@Cade> So you'd have Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi, Star Wars: Dawn of the Jedi: Force Storm, and Dawn of the Jedi: Force Storm 1? [20:13] <@Toprawa> Yes [20:13] <@Cade> That seems.... odd. [20:13] <@Toprawa> I don't think it's so odd [20:13] <@Cade> At the least, I'd think that the Star Wars: should be dropped from the arc names [20:13] <@Toprawa> Why? [20:13] <@Cade> We use arc names in Appearances [20:13] <@Toprawa> The idea here is to keep formality where it doesn't impede on the Appearances list [20:13] <@Toprawa> We don't use arc names in the Appearances [20:13] <@Cade> Yes, we do. [20:14] <@Toprawa> Where? [20:14] <@CC7567> If a subject appears in all issues of a single arc [20:14] <@Toprawa> Oh, right [20:14] <@Toprawa> Nevermind [20:14] <@Cade> ^ [20:14] <@Toprawa> Yeah [20:14] <@Toprawa> hmm [20:14] <@Cade> So keep the Star Wars: only on the series names, then? [20:14] <@Toprawa> Series, story arcs, and TPBs, at least [20:15] <@Toprawa> Things that aren't listed in the Appearances should have the prefix, basically [20:15] <@Cade> Uh... do you mean series and TPBs? I thought you just agreed to leave it off arcs [20:15] <@Toprawa> Sorry... [20:15] <@Toprawa> Series and TPBs [20:15] <@Cade> Np [20:15] <@Toprawa> There' s a lot to keep track of here :P [20:15] <@CC7567> I'd support that [20:15] <ProfessorTofty> Works for me too. [20:15] <AV-6R7> Wait [20:15] <@Toprawa> I spent like the whole week seriously just going through every comic book example and trying to think of every weird case [20:16] <AV-6R7> NRVMD [20:16] <@Cade> To clarify, people: [20:16] <@Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tho_Yor#Appearances [20:16] <@Cade> The Star WArs: prefix will be dropped from all of the entries in this Appearances list. [20:16] <AV-6R7> What about in cases where the series is listed in appearances, or is this just an error? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rook_Kast [20:16] <@Cade> Error. [20:17] <AV-6R7> Should the TBP just be listed? [20:17] <@Cade> Or wait. [20:17] <@Cade> What if it's a miniseries, Tope. [20:17] <@CC7567> That's another odd case [20:17] <@Toprawa> I don't know... [20:17] <@Cade> I'd be open to leaving the Star Wars: off of series, arcs, and issues, but leaving it on TPBs [20:17] <@Toprawa> I kind of forgot that we list the whole story arc in the Appearances list in certain cases [20:17] <@Toprawa> That bugs the crap out of me [20:18] <@Toprawa> I feel like maybe we shouldn't [20:18] <@Cade> Series, arcs, and issues will be listed in Appearances, while TPBs never will. [20:18] <ProfessorTofty> Or hardcover compliations, right? Same thing? [20:18] <@Cade> Yeah, those are TPBs except they're not literally paperbacks.\ [20:18] <@CC7567> Hardcover compilations are like TPBs, so yes [20:18] <@Toprawa> Hardcover compilations are TPBs, essentially [20:18] <AV-6R7> So with Kast, just list the series, not the TBD? [20:19] <AV-6R7> *TPB [20:19] <@Cade> Yes. TPBs should never be listed in Appearances, period [20:19] <@Toprawa> As a side issue to this, what if we made Appearances list all issues and not just the series? [20:19] <@Cade> Hmmm. [20:19] <@Toprawa> That way we could answer the miniseries question and jsut keep the prefix, which I think is the better plan [20:19] <@CC7567> So we wouldn't list miniseries in Appearances anymore? [20:19] <@Toprawa> Correct [20:19] <ProfessorTofty> It just seems so unnecessary, just like how sometimes we list just "Star Wars Rebels" for a particular subject in which it always appears. [20:19] <@Cade> We don't ever do that [20:19] <@Cade> Or we shouldn't. [20:19] <@Toprawa> Yeah, we don't ever do that [20:19] <Brandon_Rhea> We'd never just list Star Wars Rebels. [20:20] <ProfessorTofty> We do, though. [20:20] <ProfessorTofty> I'm sure I've seen it before... [20:20] <@Cade> That's actually outlined by the LG, I think [20:20] <@CC7567> Where? [20:20] <Brandon_Rhea> Then those articles are wrong. [20:20] <ProfessorTofty> I'll see if I can find an example... [20:20] <@Toprawa> It happens on pages no one cares aobut [20:20] <AV-6R7> I suppose that would help clarify if we listed every issue. We have scrollboxes for a reason. [20:20] <@CC7567> ^ [20:20] <@Toprawa> But once the page gets to a nomination stage, it gets fixed [20:20] <@Cade> Tope: That... technically would make WhatLinksHere more useful, when I think about it [20:20] <@Toprawa> We list every TV episode [20:20] <@Toprawa> Yes, it would [20:20] <@Toprawa> Plus, what happens if something takes place between an issue? [20:20] <Brandon_Rhea> The upside to listing each comic too is that it makes it easier to see a character's continuity, i.e. Darth Vader crossing between Star Wars and Star Wars: Darth Vader issues. [20:20] <@Cade> Yeah, I'd be alright with changing arcs to issues [20:21] <@Cade> That's a very good point, Tope [20:21] <@Toprawa> Yes [20:21] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah, agreed. [20:21] <Imperators> let's do that [20:21] <@Cade> Okay, then a two-part vote? [20:21] <AV-6R7> Agreed. [20:21] <@Toprawa> Ok, so here's where we're at: [20:21] <ProfessorTofty> Found one. For example, "Basic." [20:21] <@Toprawa> Star Wars: on story arcs, series titles, and TPBs [20:21] <@Toprawa> Yes? [20:21] <@CC7567> Yes [20:21] <@Cade> Yes [20:21] <@Toprawa> And then we'll go to Appearances in the next vote [20:21] <AV-6R7> Yeah [20:21] <ProfessorTofty> Just lists "Star Wars Rebels." [20:21] <Brandon_Rhea> With the current exception list, right? (re: Tope's question) [20:21] <@CC7567> Tofty: That needs to be changed [20:21] <Brandon_Rhea> Like "Star Wars #22" [20:21] <ProfessorTofty> Okay, noted. [20:22] <@Toprawa> Correct [20:22] <Brandon_Rhea> Cool [20:22] <@Toprawa> We're back to where my proposal page is at [20:22] <@Toprawa> So we're just voting to straight ratify that [20:22] <@CC7567> Seems like an appropriate time to use B) [20:22] <@Cade> Yeah, the title of that series is actually just "Star Wars", so there's no : in there. [20:22] <@Toprawa> Here we go, voting on proposal as originally presented [20:22] <@Toprawa> ~open [20:22] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [20:22] <@Cade> ~support [20:22] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [20:22] <@CC7567> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [20:22] <AV-6R7> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [20:22] <@Toprawa> ~support [20:22] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [20:22] <@IFYLOFD> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for IFYLOFD [20:22] <Cwedin> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [20:22] <@grunny> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [20:22] <CorellianPremier> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [20:22] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [20:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [20:23] <Imperators> ~support [20:23] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [20:23] <@Toprawa> ~close [20:23] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [20:23] <@Toprawa> ~tally [20:23] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [20:23] <@Toprawa> Vote passes, 12-0 [20:24] <@Toprawa> Now we're voting on modifying the Appearances... [20:24] <@Toprawa> The issue is I know we voted to make this a policy at some point, which may require a certain number of votes to overturn [20:24] <@Toprawa> if there aren't enough people here, we may have to shunt it off to CT for wider participation [20:24] <@Toprawa> I need to find this CT [20:24] <@Toprawa> Moment, please [20:25] <@CC7567> Wait, what's this? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Appearances:_issue_vs_arc [20:25] <@CC7567> Never mind, I think that's been overwritten since then [20:25] <@Cade> It's in the LG's Appearances section, but no CT link. [20:25] <ProfessorTofty> Well, if we can't find it, then maybe it doesn't exist? :D [20:26] <@Toprawa> It does...because I remember being a dick in that vote :P [20:26] <ProfessorTofty> Hee. [20:26] <@Toprawa> Well, I think it was directed at Havac [20:26] <@Toprawa> Who totally deserved it [20:26] <@Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Repealing_the_Story_arc_vs._Issue_decision?t=20090510162420 [20:26] <ProfessorTofty> It says "no consensus. [20:26] <@Cade> bah [20:27] <ProfessorTofty> So we should be fine, right? [20:27] <@CC7567> No, that's not the correct CT [20:27] <@Cade> Nah, there are more. [20:27] <ProfessorTofty> Oh, wow, okay... [20:27] <@CC7567> GOT IT [20:27] <@CC7567> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Comic_consistency?t=20151211185450 [20:27] <@Cade> "arc" is a useless search term in the archives ^_^ [20:27] <@Cade> BLAST [20:28] <@CC7567> I think...? [20:28] <@Cade> I literally just opened that CT [20:28] <@CC7567> I WIN [20:28] <@Cade> Except [20:28] <@CC7567> Okay, so this is the one [20:28] <@Cade> It says keep current policy [20:28] <@CC7567> And that's a lot of support votes [20:28] * Zervonn (~zervo@[REDACTED]) has joined #wookieepedia [20:28] <@Toprawa> Well [20:28] <@CC7567> AFAIK, the current policy at the time was to use arcs instead of issues [20:28] <@Cade> And said policy doesn't have a CT behind it [20:28] <ProfessorTofty> But quite a few against, too? Do we factor that in? [20:28] <@Toprawa> We didn't actually change the policy, though [20:28] <@Cade> Yeah [20:29] <@Toprawa> I think the original policy probably goes back to the LG's original drafting, which predated our consensus measures [20:29] <@Cade> hang on, let me check something [20:29] <Brandon_Rhea> How many votes does it take to overturn the policy about needing more votes than the last CT to change a policy? :P [20:29] <@Cade> You're right Tope [20:29] <@Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Layout_Guide?diff=106530&oldid=103915 [20:29] <@Cade> For comics, link to the Story Arc, not the TPB or individual issue, unless it is a standalone issue. [20:29] <@CC7567> Brandon: The answer is headache-inducing [20:29] <Brandon_Rhea> Heh [20:30] <@Cade> It's from Aziz's original draft. No policy behind it. [20:30] <@Cade> *no CT [20:30] <@CC7567> Ok, so does that mean we don't need a specific amount of votes to change it in this instance? [20:30] <@Cade> I believe so... Tope? [20:30] <ProfessorTofty> Can we just say yes? [20:30] <@Toprawa> It falls to legal interpretation, I guess [20:30] <@Toprawa> To be fair, I would say yes [20:30] <@Toprawa> So we should probably send it to CT and try to get 27 votes [20:31] <@CC7567> Ok, your call [20:31] <AV-6R7> Which will take a while. [20:31] <@Cade> Ehh. [20:31] <@EJ-mobile> That will be hard. [20:31] <@Cade> A lot of the support votes in the Comic consistency one are supporting what we're proposing [20:32] <@Cade> And that CT was about whether or not to go flat-out *all* arcs, no single issues, in the Appearances [20:32] <@Toprawa> Grunny, Culator, you're BCs [20:32] <@Toprawa> Legal interpretation falls to us [20:32] <@Toprawa> Give me your opinions [20:32] <@Toprawa> Do we need a new CT to respect that previous one, which reinforced the original non-consensus LG? [20:33] <@Cade> The only CT about the actual issue ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:CT_Archive/Appearances:_issue_vs_arc ) ended in a support for our idea [20:34] <@Darth_Culator> Reconsidering any artifact from the "original" style rules shouldn't be hampered TOO heavily by procedure. [20:35] <@Cade> Are we still waiting? [20:36] <@grunny> I'd say it's grey enough, since the original policy was never explicitly voted on, so I think we have some leniency to change it here [20:36] <@Toprawa> Cade, can you quote the current policy for us again? [20:36] <AV-6R7> When it comes to obtuse rules, Bend 'Em [20:37] <AV-6R7> http://www.starwars.com/news/collectibles-from-the-outer-rim-star-wars-bend-ems [20:37] <@Cade> "For comics, link to the individual issue, unless a subject appears in every issue of a story arc." [20:37] <@Toprawa> Ok, well, we're not voting to overturn that rule, yes? [20:37] <@Toprawa> We're voting to modify it [20:37] <@Cade> The only changes since the original draft were some decapitalizing and grammaratizing. [20:37] <@Cade> Yeah, essentially. [20:37] <@Cade> It'll be "For comics, link to the individual issue." [20:38] <@Toprawa> So if we're voting to modify it and not overturn it, we're safe according to the Consensus rules [20:38] <@Toprawa> "In order to overturn a previous consensus resolution, a renewed vote must be held with a voter participation equal to or greater than the original discussion. Note that this does not apply to modifications of a previous resolution, which is defined as any change to an existing policy that is not a straight repeal. " [20:38] <@grunny> I agree [20:38] <@Toprawa> So we're good [20:38] <AV-6R7> Aye [20:38] <@Toprawa> Let's vote, then [20:38] <@CC7567> Let the record show that I'm grateful that I'm not a lawyer [20:38] <@CC7567> And yes [20:38] <ProfessorTofty> Aye. And with that, I think we should vote. [20:38] <@Toprawa> We're changing that Appearances clause to list all individual comics by issue in all instances; series will no longer be listed [20:38] <@Toprawa> Apologies to all for the holdup [20:38] <@Toprawa> ~open [20:38] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [20:38] <Imperators> ~support [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [20:38] <AV-6R7> ~support [20:38] <@Cade> ~support [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [20:38] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [20:38] <@CC7567> ~support [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [20:38] <@Toprawa> ~support [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [20:38] <Cwedin> ~support [20:38] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [20:39] <@grunny> ~support [20:39] <CorellianPremier> ~support [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [20:39] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [20:39] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [20:39] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [20:39] <@ecks> ~support [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ecks [20:39] <@Toprawa> ~close [20:39] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [20:39] <@Toprawa> ~tally [20:39] <DrBallMD> Support: 13; Oppose: 0 [20:39] <@Toprawa> Measure passes, 13-0 [20:39] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [20:39] * ecks sets mode: +m [20:39] <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA [20:39] <@Toprawa> Updating the Layout Guide's External links section. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:15, September 4, 2016 (UTC) [20:40] <@Toprawa> One sec [20:40] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3ALayout_Guide#External_links [20:40] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3ALayout_Guide/Out-of-universe#External_links [20:40] <@Toprawa> These are our current sectoins [20:41] <@Toprawa> I'm simply proposing a few minor additions primarily to define the section [20:41] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca [20:41] <@Toprawa> The biggest change is this: [20:41] <@Toprawa> "Ideally, real-world product articles, such as books or comics, will list at least one external link to an official product page from the publisher or manufacturer. If no such link exists, list the subject's Amazon.com product page. The Amazon page may be listed in addition to an official product page if it contains critical information not found on the product page, such as a publication date." [20:42] <@Toprawa> Recently, and Tofty can attest to this, we had a little debate over whether Amazon pages should be listed on OOU product pages [20:42] <@Toprawa> Ideally, we will have an official product page for everything, but there are cases where we need to revert to the Internet marketplace for our info [20:42] <@Toprawa> Someone questioned recently, well, why Amazon? [20:42] <@Toprawa> Why not Barnes & Noble or anything else? [20:42] <@Toprawa> Because Amazon is the Internet's leading marketplace website, plain and simple [20:42] <@Toprawa> ecks [20:42] * ecks sets mode: -m [20:42] <@Cade> *cough* Weedle abuse *cough cough* [20:42] <@Cade> Also, poor eBay [20:43] <@Toprawa> yes, don't list ebay links, people [20:43] <@ecks> fine with me [20:43] <@Toprawa> for fuck's sake [20:43] <@Cade> Sounds good [20:43] <ProfessorTofty> eBay listings are way too fluid generally. [20:43] <ProfessorTofty> It sounds good to me. [20:43] <@Toprawa> They expire after 60 days anyways [20:43] <@Cade> I've actually never seen an eBay link, I was just feeling sorry for how it's gotten its ass kicked by Amazon [20:43] <AV-6R7> Although the Droids and Ewoks cells are nice, its too unstable. [20:43] <ProfessorTofty> Well, I think they do have some firm product pages now for regular stuff that gets listed often, but yeah, auctions and such go away. [20:44] <@CC7567> Sounds like everyone's ready to vote [20:44] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah. [20:44] <@Toprawa> Sorry, yes [20:44] <@Toprawa> ok [20:44] <@Toprawa> ~open [20:44] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [20:44] <@Cade> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [20:44] <AV-6R7> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [20:44] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [20:44] <@CC7567> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [20:44] <@Toprawa> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [20:44] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [20:44] <Cwedin> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [20:44] <Imperators> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [20:44] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [20:44] <@grunny> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [20:44] <CorellianPremier> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [20:44] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [20:44] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [20:45] <@ecks> ~support [20:45] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ecks [20:45] <@Toprawa> ~close [20:45] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [20:45] <@Toprawa> ~tally [20:45] <DrBallMD> Support: 13; Oppose: 0 [20:45] <@Toprawa> Passes, 13-0 [20:45] * ecks sets mode: +m [20:45] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [20:45] <@Toprawa> TOPRAWA [20:45] <@Toprawa> THIS GUY AGAIN [20:45] <@Toprawa> Handling Star Wars parodies. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 05:04, September 5, 2016 (UTC) [20:45] * @Darth_Culator rolls eyes [20:46] <@Toprawa> I presume Culator's sentiments for Star Wars "parodies" mirrors my own, hence the eyeroll [20:46] <@Darth_Culator> Well, that plus this Toprawa guy keeps taking over the floor. [20:47] <@Toprawa> Hey, you guys had a chance to propose agenda items :P [20:47] <@Toprawa> We have a number of fairly silly Star Wars parody articles on our wiki [20:47] <@Toprawa> I believe they're in Category:Parodies [20:47] <@CC7567> !wiki Category:Parodies [20:47] <@Nuku-Nuku> CC7567: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category%3AParodies [20:47] <@Toprawa> The existence of many of these articles is trivial and their value in being here debatable at best [20:48] <@Toprawa> At the very least, we should determine how they're treated in our primary articles [20:48] <@IFYLOFD> ~support [20:48] <@IFYLOFD> ~close [20:48] <@IFYLOFD> yay [20:48] <@Cade> Gentlemen, let us not abuse our ops-voice [20:48] <@Toprawa> In the LG's Article body section, I propose we add the following under the first paragraph http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3ALayout_Guide#Article_body [20:48] <@Cade> Tope has the floor [20:49] * Supreme_Emperor (~androirc@wookieepedia/administrator/Supreme-Emperor) has joined #wookieepedia [20:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Supreme_Emperor [20:49] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Supreme_Emperor [20:49] <@Toprawa> "Canon and Legends mainspace articles shall not document content from Star Wars "parody" projects (examples: Family Guy: "Blue Harvest," Phineas and Ferb: Star Wars, and Robot Chicken Star Wars) unless there is a specific referential need in the article's "Behind the scenes" section." [20:49] <@Toprawa> And in the BTS section: [20:49] <@Toprawa> "The "Behind the scenes" section need not document any content from Star Wars "parody" projects (examples: Family Guy: "Blue Harvest," Phineas and Ferb: Star Wars, and Robot Chicken Star Wars) unless there is a specific referential need. " [20:49] <@Toprawa> ecks [20:49] * ecks sets mode: -m [20:49] <ProfessorTofty> Works for me. [20:49] <Brandon_Rhea> How do you define "specific referential need," if you define it as anything other than a case by case basis? [20:49] <AV-6R7> Do we really need a Spaceballs article? [20:50] <ProfessorTofty> On a sidenote, I've always thought it a bit silly that "The Saga Begins" has an article and "Yoda (song)" doesn't for what is apparently no reason other than "Yoda (song)" was voted for deletion and the other wasn't. Either both are equally valid, or both aren't. [20:50] <@Toprawa> It really is a case-by-case basis, but I can give you an example of what I consider a referential need, if that helps [20:50] <@Toprawa> None of them are valid, AV and Tofty [20:50] <@Toprawa> They should all be deleted [20:50] <@Darth_Culator> ...there is such a thing? [20:50] <Brandon_Rhea> I'm thinking about how the Kylo Ren article references the Undercover Boss SNL sketch as a clear example of the character's pop culture appeal, and it's done so in a section about the character's reception. [20:50] <@Darth_Culator> These are needed? [20:50] <@Darth_Culator> At all? [20:50] <@Toprawa> I mean, we can just skip my proposal and agree to ban all parody articles for starters [20:50] <@Toprawa> The Star Wars Fan Wiki exists for a reason, people [20:50] <@Cade> There are two questions here, really [20:50] <ProfessorTofty> Could they be moved to the fan wiki? I'd hate to see them just deleted. [20:51] <@Cade> a) Do these need articles [20:51] <AV-6R7> The Saga Begins did appear on the TCS Blu-ray set. [20:51] <@Cade> b) Do these need to be referenced in our articles [20:51] <@Toprawa> I wasn't intending to tackle Item A there, Cade [20:51] <@Toprawa> But this seems to be moving toward that [20:51] <@Cade> I'm fine with the referencing, but they don't need articles. [20:51] <@Cade> However, we can't delete these via Mofference, I don't think [20:51] <AV-6R7> Many already have Wikipedia articles. [20:51] <@Cade> They have to be TC'd, right? [20:51] <@Toprawa> I think the existence of their articles should be left to another forum [20:51] <@Toprawa> TC them if you want, people [20:51] <@Cade> Yeah [20:51] <@Toprawa> Then my proposal becomes obsolete [20:51] <@CC7567> Ok [20:51] <@Toprawa> But until that happens [20:52] <ProfessorTofty> Okay. [20:52] <@Toprawa> Let's concentrate on this proposal [20:52] <@ecks> ~support this bitch [20:52] <@Toprawa> Brandon, did you need an example? [20:52] <@IFYLOFD> I gotta go guys, later [20:52] <Brandon_Rhea> What do you think of my Kylo Ren example? That's the big one that jumps to mind for me. [20:52] * @IFYLOFD (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/IFYLOFD) Quit (Quit: This is a public service announcement... WITH GUITARS!) [20:52] <@Cade> I wouldn't mind seeing that in the BTS [20:52] <@Cade> But I don't think we need an article on the SNL skit. [20:52] <@Toprawa> IMO, if the Kylo Ren BTS needed a pop-culture section, I wouldn't oppose it [20:52] <@Toprawa> That sounds like a good case of a referential need [20:53] <Brandon_Rhea> Cool, works for me then [20:53] <@CC7567> Personally I think it's fine, especially with the extreme proliferation of Star Wars stuff in pop culture recently [20:53] <@Toprawa> So let's vote [20:53] <@Toprawa> ~open [20:53] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [20:53] <@CC7567> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [20:53] <@Toprawa> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [20:53] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [20:53] <@grunny> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [20:53] <AV-6R7> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [20:53] <@Cade> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [20:53] <Cwedin> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [20:53] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [20:53] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [20:53] <CorellianPremier> ~support [20:53] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [20:53] <Imperators> ~support [20:53] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [20:54] <@Toprawa> ~close [20:54] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [20:54] <@Toprawa> ~tally [20:54] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [20:54] <@Toprawa> Passes, 12-0 [20:54] * ecks sets mode: +m [20:54] <@Cade> Good lord, my lister.py is still going on Category:Comics. So many recursions. [20:54] <@Toprawa> Moving on, this basically Part 2 of the parodies thing [20:54] <@Toprawa> Plus a little something extra [20:57] <@ecks> Toprawa still alive? [20:58] <@Cade> The parodies have him [20:58] <@Darth_Culator> I'm curious about the "something extra". [20:58] <@Darth_Culator> I hope it's cake. [20:58] <@Cade> But... the cake is a lie [20:58] <@ecks> I've now been up for 24 hours [20:58] <@ecks> woop [20:58] <@Cade> good lord [20:58] * Ralltiir (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Toprawa) has joined #wookieepedia [20:58] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Ralltiir [20:58] <@Cade> who categorized this category [20:58] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Ralltiir [20:59] * @Toprawa (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Toprawa) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [20:59] * Ralltiir is now known as Toprawa [20:59] <@Cade> oh wait [20:59] <@Toprawa> son of a bitch [20:59] <@Cade> I think it was me [20:59] <@Toprawa> Sorry [20:59] <@CC7567> Tope has the floor [20:59] <@Toprawa> What was the last thing that got through from me? [20:59] <@ecks> <@Toprawa> Plus a little something extra [20:59] <@Darth_Culator> Is it cake? [20:59] <@Toprawa> Toprawa	We need to create a policy for listing non-canon items in the Appearances list [20:59] <@Toprawa> 	Toprawa	Our de facto solution has been to create a subsection: ==Appearances== ===Non-canon appearances=== [20:59] <@Toprawa> 	Toprawa	So let's codify it [20:59] <@Toprawa> 	Toprawa	One sec... [21:00] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca [21:00] <@Toprawa> This adds non-canon subsections to Appearances and Sources in the LG and also states that parodies will not be listed here, as some newer users like to try and do [21:00] <@Toprawa> Redirects and redlinks will be fixed [21:01] <@Toprawa> ecks [21:01] * ecks sets mode: -m [21:01] <ProfessorTofty> So then this would officially deprecate the and  templates, then? [21:01] <@Toprawa> hmm [21:01] <@Toprawa> Off the top of my head, I can't think of an example where they would be used [21:01] <@CC7567> Generally and  are used for articles that have very few non-canon appearances/sources [21:01] <@Cade> And we're formalizing the non-canon appearances subsections? Cool [21:01] <@CC7567> So if we lump all the non-canon stuff into a separate section, we wouldn't need those tags [21:01] <CorellianPremier> Why publication date? Shouldn't they mirror appearances and go with Chronologicail date? [21:01] <@Cade> Yeah, sounds good to me [21:02] <@Toprawa> No... [21:02] <@Cade> CP: Not all non-canon ones are IU [21:02] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah, in the past if there's only been like one or two non-canon, then we just use those. [21:02] <@Toprawa> When do we ever list Sources by chronological order? [21:02] <AV-6R7> Maybe we should keep the Canon stuff with the NC until a subject reaches a sort of threshold. [21:02] <@Cade> Or they are, but don't follow regular chronology [21:02] <@Cade> Ah [21:02] <@Cade> Nvm [21:02] <@Toprawa> You guys have totally lost me [21:02] <@Toprawa> I can try to answer you one at a time [21:03] <@Toprawa> CP, we don't list Sources by chronological date [21:03] <@Cade> CP: Publication date for non-canon Sources, chronological for non-canon Appearances. [21:03] <@CC7567> ^ [21:03] <@Toprawa> We never have and never will [21:03] <@Toprawa> Sources is OOU [21:03] <@Toprawa> Appearances is IU [21:03] <@Cade> I think he was looking at the wrong section. [21:03] <@Toprawa> Fine [21:03] <@CC7567> In response to AV's thing, I think we should just have a non-canon Appearances and/or Sources section for every single relevant article, regardless of how many items are in each list [21:03] <ProfessorTofty> I think I see, though - because we do sometimes have non-canonical sources, so those templates would still be needed. [21:03] <@Toprawa> We have rare instances of non-canon Sources [21:03] <ProfessorTofty> So we would have non-canon Sources, too? [21:03] <@CC7567> It's hard to track down that single or  in huge lists [21:03] <CorellianPremier> Oh right, I was. disregard [21:03] <@Toprawa> They crop up once in a blue moon [21:04] <ProfessorTofty> A section. [21:04] <@Toprawa> Executor/Legends has one [21:04] <@Toprawa> Are there more questions? [21:04] <ProfessorTofty> Not with me. I'm clear. [21:04] <@CC7567> Just for clarification [21:05] <@CC7567> Would this policy apply to any article with a non-canon source or appearance, even if the "Non-canon appearances" or "Non-canon sources" is just a single item? [21:05] <@CC7567> I'd be fine with that, I just want to make sure [21:06] <@Toprawa> Like this, you mean? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tantive_V_(CR90_corvette) [21:06] <@CC7567> No [21:06] <AV-6R7> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trandosha#Appearances [21:07] <@CC7567> Yes, Trandosha [21:07] <@Toprawa> Yes [21:07] <@Toprawa> The idea is to divide them from the canonical continuity items [21:07] <ProfessorTofty> That Tantive V would stay exactly how it is already, right? [21:07] <@ecks> vote pls [21:07] <ProfessorTofty> Since we have non-canon at the top, we don't need to specify it anywhere else. [21:07] <@Toprawa> Tofty, yes, and we can add a note to the section if need be [21:07] <@CC7567> Ok I'm good [21:07] <ProfessorTofty> Okay. [21:07] <@CC7567> Let's vote [21:07] <@Cade> I'm assuming they should be === Header === level, right. [21:07] <AV-6R7> As am I. [21:08] <@Toprawa> It's a subsection, Cade [21:08] <@CC7567> Cade: yes [21:08] <@Toprawa> When does that ever change? :P [21:08] <@Toprawa> ecks is dying [21:08] <@Toprawa> So let's vote [21:08] <@Cade> I didn't see the subsection part :P [21:08] <@Toprawa> ~open [21:08] <@CC7567> it's like 4am for him [21:08] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [21:08] <@Cade> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [21:08] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [21:08] <Imperators> 4 am [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [21:08] <@Toprawa> ~support [21:08] <@CC7567> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [21:08] <AV-6R7> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [21:08] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [21:08] <Imperators> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [21:08] <@grunny> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [21:08] <Cwedin> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [21:08] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [21:08] <CorellianPremier> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [21:08] <@ecks> ~support [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ecks [21:08] <@Toprawa> ~close [21:08] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [21:08] <@Toprawa> ~tally [21:08] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [21:08] <@Toprawa> 12-0 [21:08] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [21:08] <@Toprawa> ECKS [21:08] * ecks sets mode: +m [21:09] <@Toprawa> WE'RE REVISING THE ORDER [21:09] <@ecks> since i need to go [21:09] <@ecks> here goes [21:09] <@ecks> creating Wookieepedia:Discussions [21:09] <@ecks> to establish our relationship with Discussions [21:09] <@ecks> http://starwars.wikia.com/?oldid=6431014 [21:09] * ecks sets mode: -m [21:09] <@ecks> floor is open [21:09] <@CC7567> Wholeheartedly, yes [21:09] <ProfessorTofty> Yeah. I really need to check out Discussions again and get back into it. But absolutely. [21:09] <@CC7567> I assume it'd be an info page for Discussions? [21:09] <@Darth_Culator> Ugh. [21:09] <@ecks> yes [21:09] <@Cade> I see Discussions is still a thing [21:09] <AV-6R7> It would be a conflict of interest for me to say no. [21:09] <ProfessorTofty> It's apparently a much better thing these days. [21:10] <@CC7567> I'm sure Brandon can give you stats, but Discussions is a major source of web traffic for us [21:10] <@Cade> I'd hope so [21:10] <@Cade> Sounds good [21:10] <AV-6R7> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Moderator [21:10] <Brandon_Rhea> Some Wikia-wide stats: [21:10] <ProfessorTofty> In fact, one of the top Discussions moderators is up for WOTM right now. [21:10] <Brandon_Rhea> Discussions drives 50% of all new Wikia account creation each month. That’s right! It’s doubled monthly registrations, even with the limited beta release. [21:10] <Brandon_Rhea> When Discussions are featured at the top of the app home screen, article views increase by 14% and more Discussions posts are created as well. [21:10] <Brandon_Rhea> Users who view Discussions are two times more likely to return within the next month, and users who create a post or reply are four times more likely to return [21:10] <Brandon_Rhea> (c/p'd from elsewhere) [21:10] * @Cade senses a sales pitch [21:10] <@Toprawa> XD [21:10] <@CC7567> Haha [21:10] <@Darth_Culator> I should hope you don't actually talk like that. [21:10] <@Cade> Brandon's not one to use exclamations like that [21:11] <@ecks> and free delivery if you order right now [21:11] <Brandon_Rhea> So now that we have a huge amount of people in there, we can formalize the relationship and start bringing more people in both directions. [21:11] <@Cade> hah [21:11] <@Toprawa> Ok, I think this is all pretty straightforward [21:11] <@Toprawa> and ecks wants to sleep [21:11] <@Toprawa> So [21:11] <@Toprawa> ~open [21:11] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [21:11] <@Cade> ~support [21:11] <@ecks> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ecks [21:11] <@CC7567> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [21:11] <@grunny> ~support [21:11] <AV-6R7> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [21:11] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [21:11] <Cwedin> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [21:11] <Imperators> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [21:11] <@Toprawa> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [21:11] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [21:11] <@EJ-mobile> ~support [21:11] <DrBallMD> Support counted for EJ-mobile [21:12] <CorellianPremier> ~support [21:12] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [21:12] <@Toprawa> ~close [21:12] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [21:12] <@Toprawa> ~tally [21:12] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [21:12] <@ecks> k, goodnight [21:12] <@Toprawa> Passes, 12-0 [21:12] <@Toprawa> bye ecks [21:12] <ProfessorTofty> Goodnight! [21:12] <AV-6R7> Night [21:12] <@Toprawa> Admins, can someone handle muting? [21:12] <@Cade> Sleep is for the weak [21:12] <@Toprawa> Cade? [21:12] <@Cade> Lemme find the thing [21:12] * grunny sets mode: +m [21:12] <@Toprawa> Whoever wants to [21:12] <@Toprawa> Thanks [21:12] <@CC7567> Night ecks [21:12] <@Toprawa> EJ, you have the floor [21:12] <@Cade> fine, be that way grunny :P [21:13] <@grunny> :D [21:13] <@Toprawa> EJ is on his phone due to technical issues, so we'll have patience for him [21:13] <@EJ-mobile> One moment [21:17] * @Toprawa (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Toprawa) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [21:18] * @EJ-mobile (~Mutter@wookieepedia/administrator/Exiledjedi) Quit (Remote host closed the connection) [21:18] <@CC7567> Well... That's awkward. [21:18] <@Supreme_Emperor> Well then [21:18] <@CC7567> Tope said he's waiting for it to come back. Let's wait until he does. [21:18] <@CC7567> By "it," I mean his Internet connection [21:18] * Toprawa (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Toprawa) has joined #wookieepedia [21:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Toprawa [21:18] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o Toprawa [21:19] <@Toprawa> Fuck [21:19] <@Toprawa> Sorry [21:19] <@Toprawa> Where are we? [21:19] <@CC7567> No worries, it happens [21:19] <@CC7567> EJ said "One moment" and then left [21:19] <@Toprawa> Ok, well [21:19] <@Toprawa> He might not be coming back [21:19] <@CC7567> Yeah, probably not [21:19] <@Toprawa> He's having all sorts of problems [21:19] <@Supreme_Emperor> Should we give him a minute or move on for now? [21:19] <@Toprawa> I know what his item was, so I can just lay it out [21:19] <@Supreme_Emperor> Ok [21:20] <@Toprawa> FAN Rule 9 reads: …have no more than 3 redlinks and none in the introduction, infobox, or any templates. [21:20] <@Toprawa> He wants it to read "…have no redlinks." [21:20] <@Toprawa> Floor is open [21:20] * exiledjedi (~Mutter@wookieepedia/administrator/Exiledjedi) has joined #wookieepedia [21:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o exiledjedi [21:20] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +o exiledjedi [21:20] * grunny sets mode: -m [21:20] <@Toprawa> EJ, I just presented your item [21:20] <AV-6R7> I thought we killed that. [21:20] <@Toprawa> You can continue to propose if you want [21:21] <ProfessorTofty> 3's not far to go down to none. Why not? [21:21] <@exiledjedi> Thanks, my connection died when I loaded Wookieepedia. [21:21] <Brandon_Rhea> Yeah I don't think anyone's going to object. Mind if we just vote? Since it's been over 2 hours now. [21:22] <AV-6R7> I concur. [21:22] <@Supreme_Emperor> Sounds fine to me. No reason why it can't be none [21:22] <ProfessorTofty> Yes, please. [21:22] <Imperators> vote now. vote kill redlinks [21:22] <@CC7567> Toprawa? [21:22] <@Toprawa> Ok [21:22] <@Toprawa> ~open [21:22] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [21:22] <@Cade> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [21:22] <@CC7567> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [21:22] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [21:22] <AV-6R7> ~support [21:22] <@grunny> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [21:22] <Imperators> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [21:22] <@Toprawa> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [21:22] <Cwedin> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [21:22] <@Supreme_Emperor> ~Support [21:22] <@exiledjedi> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for exiledjedi [21:22] <CorellianPremier> ~support [21:22] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [21:23] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [21:23] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [21:23] <@Toprawa> ~close [21:23] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [21:23] <@Toprawa> ~tally [21:23] <DrBallMD> Support: 11; Oppose: 0 [21:23] <@Toprawa> Passes, 11-0 [21:23] <@Toprawa> MOVING ON [21:23] <@Toprawa> Amending article-nomination rules. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 17:37, September 10, 2016 (UTC) [21:23] * grunny sets mode: +m [21:23] <@Toprawa> I was going to do this in blocks, but we're running short on patience [21:23] <@Toprawa> So I'm just throwing it out there [21:24] <@Toprawa> One sec... [21:25] <@Toprawa> These all need to happen http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Zev_Senesca [21:25] <@Toprawa> Rules that are either outdated or redundant or contradictory [21:25] <@Toprawa> grunny [21:25] <@Toprawa> needs* [21:25] * grunny sets mode: -m [21:25] <Brandon_Rhea> Looks good. [21:25] <@Toprawa> If anyone needs to compare... [21:25] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Featured_article_nominations [21:25] <@CC7567> Sounds good [21:26] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Good_article_nominations [21:26] <@Toprawa> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Comprehensive_article_nominations [21:26] <ProfessorTofty> Basically just looks procedural to me. Should be alright.. [21:26] <AV-6R7> Agreed. [21:26] <@Toprawa> Any questions? [21:26] <@Supreme_Emperor> Sounds good [21:26] <@Toprawa> No questions. That's good. [21:26] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [21:26] <@Toprawa> ~open [21:26] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [21:26] <@Cade> ~support [21:26] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [21:26] <@CC7567> ~support [21:26] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [21:26] <@grunny> ~support [21:26] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [21:26] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [21:26] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [21:27] <AV-6R7> ~support [21:27] <@Toprawa> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [21:27] <Cwedin> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [21:27] <Imperators> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [21:27] <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Supreme_Emperor [21:27] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [21:27] <@Darth_Culator> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Darth_Culator [21:27] <CorellianPremier> ~support [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [21:27] <@Toprawa> ~close [21:27] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [21:27] <@exiledjedi> ~support [21:27] <@Toprawa> ~tally [21:27] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [21:27] <@Toprawa> EJ, I'll count yours because you're handicapped [21:27] <@Toprawa> Passes, 13-0 [21:27] <@Toprawa> MOVING [21:27] <@Toprawa> ON [21:28] <@Toprawa> BRANDON [21:28] <Brandon_Rhea> Voice pls [21:28] * grunny sets mode: +mv Brandon_Rhea [21:28] <+Brandon_Rhea> Creating a process for theming the wiki (main page, skin, wordmark) around major releases (Rogue One, etc). - Brandon Rhea(talk) 22:38, September 10, 2016 (UTC) [21:28] <+Brandon_Rhea> So, this is pretty straight-forward: give admins the ability to decide on release-specific changes to the main page, skin, and wordmark without needing to go through a CT. [21:28] <+Brandon_Rhea> For example, to capitalize on the release of Rogue One and future releases (and, I should note, we completely missed out on TFA by doing nothing for it), this would allow the admins to approve new Rogue One content on the main page during the release period. [21:28] <+Brandon_Rhea> It would also allow them to approve a Rogue One skin, a Rogue One wordmark, etc. In turn we’ll get good SEO from the prevalence of a major release on the main page. [21:28] <+Brandon_Rhea> This is basically an extension of a clause from a Mofference last year, where it was approved that admins would be able to make event-specific content decisions (like the use of blogs, which was the genesis of that vote) without needing to go through a CT every time there was an event. Or, in this case, a major release. [21:28] <+Brandon_Rhea> Fin. [21:29] * grunny sets mode: -mv Brandon_Rhea [21:29] <@Cade> si senor [21:29] <ProfessorTofty> Absolutely. FFWiki just did a theme for the upcoming Final Fantasy XV and it's pretty stylish. We need that sort of thing. [21:29] <AV-6R7> I assume this would only affect the Wikia skin? [21:29] <Brandon_Rhea> I see no reason why admins couldn't make a Monobook change if they wanted to. [21:29] <@Darth_Culator> What do we do when admins disagree about theming decisions? [21:29] <AV-6R7> I see. [21:30] <@Cade> Fight to the death [21:30] <Brandon_Rhea> Work together. Collaborate. Figure it out. :P [21:30] <@Cade> Same thing [21:30] <@Supreme_Emperor> I like Cades idea better [21:30] <@Darth_Culator> ^ [21:30] <@Cade> He's just saying that to fit in, he's Canadian [21:30] <@Cade> They hate to fight [21:30] <@Cade> Alright, anyone oppose? [21:30] <ProfessorTofty> Create, Collaborate, and be original [21:30] <@CC7567> Sounds good, let's vote [21:30] <@Supreme_Emperor> We also hate disagreement [21:30] <ProfessorTofty> :D [21:30] <Brandon_Rhea> Plz Tofty that was like 3 brands ago. [21:30] <AV-6R7> I'm good. [21:31] <@Toprawa> ~open [21:31] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [21:31] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [21:31] <@CC7567> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [21:31] <@Cade> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [21:31] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [21:31] <AV-6R7> ~support [21:31] <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Supreme_Emperor [21:31] <Cwedin> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [21:31] <CorellianPremier> ~suppot [21:31] <@grunny> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [21:31] <CorellianPremier> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [21:31] <@Toprawa> ~support [21:31] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [21:31] <@Toprawa> Closing in 10 seconds [21:31] <@Toprawa> Vote now [21:32] <@exiledjedi> ~support [21:32] <DrBallMD> Support counted for exiledjedi [21:32] <@Toprawa> ~close [21:32] <@Cade> ~support [21:32] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [21:32] <@Toprawa> Cade, you don't count [21:32] <@Toprawa> ~tally [21:32] <DrBallMD> Support: 11; Oppose: 0 [21:32] <@Toprawa> Pass, 11-0 [21:32] <@Toprawa> MOVING [21:32] <@Toprawa> ON [21:32] <@Cade> bah I looked away and thought we had started a new one [21:32] <@Toprawa> ECKS ISN'T HERE [21:32] <@Toprawa> But I have his item. [21:32] <Imperators> damn [21:32] <@Toprawa> Minor change to RFA requirement #5: [21:32] * grunny sets mode: +m [21:32] <@Toprawa>    They have had at least some major article contributions. [21:33] <@Toprawa> should be changed to [21:33] <@Toprawa>    They have had some form of major wiki contribution. [21:33] <@Toprawa> He basically doesn't want it to be thought that someone who doesn't write a 10,000-word FAN can't be an admin [21:33] <@Toprawa> go, grunny! [21:33] * grunny sets mode: -m [21:33] <@Supreme_Emperor> Sounds good [21:34] <@Cade> ~support [21:34] <ProfessorTofty> Articles are important, but there are other things on the wiki. I can see other ways there could be a path, so why not? [21:34] <@grunny> seems straightforward [21:34] <Brandon_Rhea> It's also reflective of the overall community now, where there's a wiki and Discussions. Just as Discussions Moderators should come from Discussions, admins should come from the wiki. [21:34] <@CC7567> For the record (statement, not a question), this would mean that an active user in Discussions can't become an admin, because Discussions is separate from the wiki [21:34] <@Toprawa> (By the way, this will be our last item unless someone has something else,in which case you better be ready to present pronto) [21:34] <@CC7567> Which is as it should be [21:34] <@Toprawa> Ok, let's vote [21:34] <@Toprawa> ~open [21:34] <DrBallMD> Vote opened. [21:34] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [21:34] <@grunny> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Brandon_Rhea [21:34] <@CC7567> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for grunny [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CC7567 [21:34] <@Toprawa> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Toprawa [21:34] <@Supreme_Emperor> ~support [21:34] <ProfessorTofty> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Supreme_Emperor [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for ProfessorTofty [21:34] <Cwedin> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cwedin [21:34] <CorellianPremier> ~support [21:34] <AV-6R7> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for CorellianPremier [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for AV-6R7 [21:34] <@exiledjedi> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for exiledjedi [21:34] <Imperators> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Imperators [21:34] <@Cade> ~support [21:34] <DrBallMD> Support counted for Cade [21:34] <@Toprawa> Vote closes in 10 [21:34] <ProfessorTofty> I have something, but it's just an idea and not a firm proposal, so people can feel free to leave if they wish. But I would kinda like to talk about it. [21:34] <@Toprawa> ~close [21:35] <DrBallMD> Vote closed. [21:35] <@Toprawa> ~tally [21:35] <DrBallMD> Support: 12; Oppose: 0 [21:35] <@Toprawa> Passes, 12-0 [21:35] <@Toprawa> Tofty, noted [21:35] <@Cade> Question for the populace [21:35] <@Cade> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Clone_Wars_(graphic_novellas) [21:35] <@Toprawa> Does anyone else have anything? [21:35] <@Cade> Do these get the de-Star Wars: treatment [21:35] <@Cade> (I'm compiling a list of articles that'll be moved) [21:35] <@CC7567> Yes, those would [21:35] <AV-6R7> Kill 'em [21:35] <@CC7567> (I think—Tope?) [21:35] <@Toprawa> One second [21:35] <@Supreme_Emperor> I would think so [21:36] <@Toprawa> I'm asking first if anyone has a full agenda item to present [21:36] <@Toprawa> Speak now or wait till next Mofference [21:36] <@CC7567> None here [21:36] <@Toprawa> Then the Mofference is hereby officially concluded (though we will stick around to discuss stuff for those interested) [21:36] <@Toprawa> Thanks to everyone who came