Forum:SH Archive/Homages

I am not sure that this is the right place to ask this, but is the best I could find after looking over the Consensus details in Help.

Like many multi-author projects, the canon Star Wars universe is full of homages to things in the real world. I also understand that if such an homage is oblique or brief, then we would want a source stating that the homage was intended, and not just coincidence.

But there are also obvious homages with multiple details making said homage clear beyond any reasonable doubt. In such cases, a consensus of editors about the homage should be enough to mention it in the behind the scenes section.

To whit, I believe that the ARK-II series Landmaster is a great example. The vehicles description in the Saga Rulebook is in large part a rewording of the Popular Science article about the real Landmaster. I summarized the main details on Talk:ARK-II series Landmaster, but another editor watching the page has blanked each of my contributions despite the list of corroborating details on the talk page.

Any help, even if just to direct me to the proper procedure for requesting third party input would be appreciated.

—MJBurrage(T•C) 20:26, August 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * These are always frustrating, because "clear beyond any reasonable doubt" is still original research, even when it's obvious. I've had to strip these sorts of references out of articles before, and it always hurts, because it's pretty obvious that they represent authorial intent even if we don't have a source for it; but if we don't have a source for it, it's just not allowed on Wookieepedia, plain and simple. One method of dealing with this that sometimes works is to mention the real-world reference in the Behind the scenes section without stating any direct connection (e.g. the Behind the scenes in the PU-36 modulator chip article), but even this is a gray area that some would see as original research. jSarek 10:20, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I find that example of PU-36 modulator chip as unsourced trivia. Indeed, these are tricky, I find it better keep them away unless sourced. (: –Tm_T (Talk) 10:48, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed it is, and will be removed. Check out Staff of Ra for an example of sourced BTS trivia. <-  Omicron (Leave a message at the BEEP! ) 12:23, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * What I am suggesting is that there should be a way for us to get editorial consensus for at least mentioning the namesake where the homage is as obvious as these. Where there is confirmation we would also mention that with the source.
 * I.E. when there are multiple points of overlap between the Star Wars people/place/thing, and the non Star Wars people/place/thing we should be able to, as a group, decide if at least mentioning the possible connection is warranted. This would function just like reaching consensus on article deletion etc. —MJBurrage(T•C) 13:26, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * There are ways to word a "Behind the scenes" section so as to point to similarities without speculating. Wording like "They share a similar name and many similar characteristics, although there has been no official confirmation that X was inspired by Y" or something. Menkooroo 13:33, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that that should be allowed in some cases (hence editorial consensus), but currently, even mention of the non Star Wars people/place/thing is being removed from behind the scenes sections. (as happened at PU-36 modulator chip during this discussion) —MJBurrage(T•C) 13:53, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * We've had this discussion before. <- Omicron (Leave a message at the BEEP! ) 14:08, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * What I am suggesting is that brief mentions of such homages should be allowed (i.e. a change in policy) even without a source. Something like "A Fistful of Credsticks may be an homage to A Fistful of Dollars. If another editor finds such a claim to be spurious, then we would need consensus on the matter. —MJBurrage(T•C) 15:05, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * No no no, "may" is a weasel word. Wording like "Don Wan-Kihotay has a similar name to Don Quixote and shares a similar story arc to him..." you could get away with, as long as you could source Don Quixote's stuff. No speculation as to authorial intent, just pointing out similarities that are, let's face it, obvious as hell. Menkooroo 15:12, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * When it comes right down to it, no source=don't put it in the article. Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 16:05, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * At the same time, when the parallels are so obvious that they practically beat you over the head with them (eg Don-Wan Kihotay), you really can't not mention them. All it takes is a little creativity to stay out of speculative and Original Research territory. Menkooroo 16:09, August 8, 2011 (UTC)