Talk:Darth Traya

What ever happened to her army?
Being in the triumitave that would mean she had some troops from the sith empire. What happened to them? Did she disband it or give it 2 the other guys I know she had to keep a low profile but some extra soldiers or bodyguards wouldnt have hurt.
 * Doesn't the notion of being exiled mean anything to you?  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 07:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Arren Kae?
I think this can't be true because Kae was handmaidens mother and she says her mother is death. By the way is there a posibility that she won't notice her mother? --


 * I disagree with both your points, though not because I support the theory regarding Arren Kae. First of all, people can very easily fake their own death. Judging from Kreia's appearance in the morgue, it seems that she can go even further and appear dead to advanced medical equipment. Therefore, until evidence of Kae's death is presented we cannot entirely be certain that she is truly dead (nevertheless, I personally believe this is so). Also, you raise the point of "noticing": Kreia uses an advanced technique called Art of the Small and numerous other methods of mind manipulation. If the Sith Lord of Betrayal, a mistress of manipulation doesn't want an untrained force-sensitive like Brianna to find something out; then she won't.
 * My personal belief is that the Knights of the Old Republic comics is setting up the great manipulator of the Padawan Massacre, Krynda Draay, to be the Kreia we know and love (or hate ^^). Such a strong and unique character bearing numerous similarities to Kreia is hard to disguise. --Kessel 22:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Kreia's history during the Mandalorian wars as Kae wouldn't let her be Dray but the comic-writers might not know that. --(Unsigned)


 * History as Kae? That's as much speculation as mine is, and is not fact. At all. --Kessel 22:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think he's right. If they had introduced Kreia, there would have been no speculation on she and Krynda being one and the same, which was a good thing for the comics, it added to the mystery. I also think Krynda is going to die in the next issues, Q'Anilia will find her dead.--Jinger 00:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm hoping for a plot twist rather than what could obviously happen. Remember what Vrook said? "I thought you'd died during the Mandalorian Wars." --Kessel 09:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

In game there are also subtle hints that led me to believe that Kreia is Kae. Both Kae and Kreia were Revan's teachers, and Kreia was believed to have been killed on the Malachor V where Kae (supposedly) died. Also in relation to the visual appearance of Kreia - Atton notes that she must have been really beautiful when she was young, and Brianna's mother was also "women of unique beauty". Kreia's white hair may not be of the old age, but natural - like Brianna's. Also - above is mentioned that all Handmaidens shared the same mother, thus Kreia can't be Brianna's mother - it's not true. They all shared the same father, and Brianna was lovechild of her father and master Kae. I know it's still pure speculation, but it seems that the game intentionally provides only hint's of the connection between Kae and Kreia, and the final confirmation, while may have been intended never made it into the final version of the game. -- Thyriel Voran 23:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Allow me to shoot down your theories one by one. Kae and Kreia both trained Revan. So did Zhar. Guess Kreia/Kae must also be Zhar. Kreia was never believed to have died on Malachor. Just during the Mandalorian Wars. I fail to see how Atton thinking she may have been good looking once has any bearing. As for her hair color, that doesn't quite explain why the other sisters have white hair. Please don't make these kind of speculative posts anywhere again. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 01:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Someone vandalized this article.
Kreias quote at the top says Im a g im a g yessir!

Last name
I've been thinking about this for a few months and to be honest, I can't seem to speak it out just yet. Do any of you guys have a clue what her last name could be? 72.82.9.127 00:04, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 00:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 01:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Darth Traya to Kreia
Was moving Darth Traya to Kreia discussed? Drewton  01:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It has, and it can't be much of a spoiler, she was revealed to be a sith fairly early in the game (First conversation onboard the Ebon hawk if the exile had a decent intelligence level) --Dixieboy 23:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Kreia and Arren Kae
Even though Kreia being Arren Kae is speculation, this cut dialouge implies that they are the same person and should be put in Behind the scenes.

Handmaiden: I cannot dishonor the Exile anymore then I can dishonor the memory of my mother.

''Kreia: Foolish words. Perhaps I could simply marr your face to show how foolish your clinging to a memory of her is. Or perhaps the truth would leave a greater wound.''

''Handmaiden: Your words are hollow, Traya. Your lies will end here today. If not by my hand, then by the Exile's.''

''Kreia: Hollow? Then know the truth and suffer for it. Arren Kae did not die at Malachor, or at least not in the way you believe. Look into your feelings...'' Drewton   16:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a piece of fanon that was made up to look like cut content. It's phony. No where in the dialog.tlk is anything that remotely resembles that, besides her actual lines of "Think before you throw away your life for him. Lust unfulfilled. Dance unfinished. Love requited..." It stays out. Nice try in getting your speculation bullshit into the article. It's not happening. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 18:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I thought it was real. I should have checked the dlg file first. It's not my fanon, I found it in the archives.  If I saw fanon about Kreia and Arren Kae in the article I would remove it.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 21:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

listen, im not saying its real, but i thought i saw somthing like that in a cut content movie on youtube. as i said i dont know if its true or not, i just thought id throw it out there.
 * There was cut content slightly like that on Malachor. However, if she said she was Arren Kae in the video, it was a mod.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * First attempt at any kind of wiki editing here, but I had to throw in the information I just found in KotOR II. This is dialog between the exile and the disciple on Dantooine, and presumably can be unlocked on the Ebon Hawk as well.

Exile: Do you know who trained Revan?

Desciple: Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques. It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order.

We do know that Kreia trained Revan, and we do have some evidence to suggest that Kae trained Revan. Could we therefor assume that Kreia is in fact Arren Kae? 98.166.33.1 20:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)Fuzzy Tenrub
 * This is the same kind of reasoning people have tried to use to say that Kavar was the Exile's Master, but unfortunately this isn't enough proof in and of itself. Yoda is not listed as Obi-Wan's Master, even though Obi-Wan tells Luke that Yoda "instructed" him.-- Goodwood [[Image:Redstarbird.svg|20px]] ( Alliance Intelligence ) 20:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Lord of the Sith?
Is Kreia not considered a Dark Lord of the Sith? And if not, why not? It was said in the game that both Sion and Nihilus were here apprentices before they betrayed her. Shouldn't the fact that she was considered the leader and likely founder make her a Dark Lord for the time before the other two overthrew her? Mistrx75 06:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * She was the leader, yes, but I haven't seen any lore which actually names her as Dark Lord of the Sith, only as a standard "Sith Lord". In any case, I don't believe "Traya" was the kind of Sith who would really feel she needed the title. She shows scorn towards the Sith of Revan's empire, and her little speeches on Atris's fall and the True Sith indicate that she may not have really considered herself much of a Sith either: "'Sith' is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe."
 * To her, the Sith were just a means to an end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she just skipped over the pretence and just stuck to being "Lord of Betrayal". --Kessel 17:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Kreia/Darth Traya

 * There are perfectly valid reasons for moving the Kreia page to Darth Traya. This is the previous decision:

"This was one of those weird exceptions to the rule that we had a consensus about. While the preference was to keep her at Kreia, her infobox remains Darth Traya as it was technically her final persona."

- Redemption

I believe this matter should be opened for discussion again - not just for Kreia, but for all Sith characters.
 * So we're really going to need to sort the Kreia name and picture thing out, as it's getting damn confusing and everyone keeps changing things. What I don't understand is why Anakin Skywalker, though having died under the name "Darth Vader" (I don't recall him stating before his death that he wished to be called "Anakin" again, though I suppose this must also be a hotly debated point), has his younger picture and birth name in the infobox, whilst Kreia has an infobox name inconsistent with the page title and an infobox image of her only briefly seen dark side persona. I suggest a compromise: that the page remain "Kreia" and include her better known brown-robed appearance, and that the infobox name be "Kreia / Darth Traya" in accordance with my suggestion for the renaming of Sith characters --Kessel 11:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Anakin's infobox picture is of younger Anakin because his Force ghost was of younger Anakin, unlike Obi-Wan. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is what I'm talking about: there are too many variables, and current policy is confusing. Anakin spent most of his life as Darth Vader, which he is known best as, yet there is no mention of the sort in his infobox. Furthermore, how do we decide on the standard for infobox image? Is it their best known appearance (as with Ulic Qel-Droma) or their final appearance (as with Anakin)? Furthermore, what about infobox style? Should identity as a Sith character be indicated over and above identity as a Jedi character? Should ex-darksiders get a new infobox style to indicate that they died good men and women, but were not good, clean Jedi all the way? Whatever the decision, we need a stronger, clearer and more objective system than the current one. --Kessel 13:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think this issue would need to be solved on a case-by-case basis. As for this article, I say leave it at Kreia. She rejected both the light and the dark sides and took the name Kreia (if that wasn't her original name to begin with). Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * However, she died as Darth Traya. I agree this issue needs to be solved case-by-case, but I think the best way is who do they consider themselves to be at the moment of their death (or their latest moment if they're not yet dead). Kreia was Darth Traya in game when you kill her, she retook that name in the end.Jedi-Sith 14:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia appears to be a unique case. While she may have retaken the name "Darth Traya" at the end, I don't know if she became a Sith again. But that's just my opinion. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Did Kreia even call herself Traya? The name 'Darth Traya' that appeared above her semeed to be more of a game mechanic.  She seemed to be more of a Vergere at the end; neither Sith nor Jedi, just with the purpose of destroying the Force.  She gave the title of Darth Traya to Atris.  And, as she said, Those are titles, words you cling to as the darkness falls around you. "Sith" is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, she does at least once. "Know that there was once a Darth Traya. And that she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. Who has been betrayed in their heart, and will betray in turn." --Brukhar 03:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Notice the phrasing. She's acknowledging that she once was Darth Traya, but there is a new Traya (i.e., Atris and not her). Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's a valid interpretation, although I had always taken it to mean that Kreia still held the knowledge of betrayal and could re-assume her title as Darth Traya when the time was right. However, I do see what you're saying and it's possible (especially given the original plans by ObsidianEnt (where Atris, not Kreia, was Darth Traya).  Though if that's the case I don't see how that helps us resolve the Jedi/Sith infobox issue. --Brukhar 14:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * After playing through the game a few times, and taking note of Kreia's dialogue, I believe that she didn't become a Sith again at the end. Perhaps Obsidian made the change from Atris to Kreia as Traya relatively late into development, so they just put Kreia in without changing the "Darth Traya" tag. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 19:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's put it this way: "Darth Traya" was only really a title she used, not an alternative persona - anyone who's played the game should agree that Kreia never stopped being Kreia; at least not in her time with the Exile.
 * Anyway, I disagree with naming on a case-by-case basis: I suggest that all names used by the character be appropriately represented in the infobox. I believe it is a more encyclopaedic way of representing the information, and leaves less room for personal opinion. --Kessel 21:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The current pic looks good. Flashfire212, this is. "Here, on Dantooine, Masters Zez-Kai Ell, Kavar, and Vrook Lamar all fell to Darth Traya."
 * And if Kreia destroyed the Force, as she wanted to, there would be no Sith or Jedi. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Putting all the names for a character in the infobox would, frankly, look horrible. I could just see "Alek Squinquargesimus/Darth Malak." Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, what about doing one per line or something similar? Because quite frankly, the alternative of picking just one title creates bias towards a character. (IE, Darth Traya being inherently evil, as opposed to Kreia, which doesn't imply an alignment).  Also, the lack of listing various titles might create confusion, especially used with characters whose identities are not revealed until later into the game or book. (IE, the Jedi Exile meets Kreia, and therefore a Wookiepedia user looks up "Kreia" on the site, only to be redirected to "Darth Traya", which confuses him.)  An important thing to keep in mind is that not all Wookiepedia users are experts on the topic. Additionally, something to keep in mind is *IF* Kreia's true identity is revealed in the future (ie, Arren Kae or Krynda Draay), what would you then list her title as?  Would you make it the new identity, or Kreia, or Darth Traya? --Brukhar 00:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Grand Moff Traner. Doing it because not all Wookieepedia users are experts is not encyclopedic.  If Kreia is Arren Kae or Krynda Draay, it would be best in my opinion for the page to remain Kreia, because everyone later called her Kreia.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 00:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the infobox should be Kreia, but as of right now, it's Darth Traya. That's why I said the above, not because I believe it shouldn't be Kreia. Since everyone knows her as Kreia, I think the page name and infobox should both list her as Kreia, and it should remain that way regardless of what future name changes/identities emerge.  If you're going to list Darth Traya in the infobox, shouldn't Kreia be there too?--Brukhar 01:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My vote goes for putting Kreia, and only Kreia, in the infobox. It looks good with Drewton's latest edit. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I feel as though we should change her to Darth Traya. While the Exile never calls her such, she according to the targeting reticule, or whatever, is Darth Traya, not Kreia. And thi squote from Jedi vs. Sith: Essential Guide to the Force shows that after the destruction of Malachor V, she was referred to as Traya:

- Recording of Deesra Luur Jada

"Following Revan and Malak, there was something of a flurry of so-called Dark Lords who took the Darth title. These included Darth Bandon, a former Jedi who was Malak's apprentice, and Darth Traya, formerly a Jedi Master named Kreia, who was cast out and succeeded by her apprentices Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus. Although the Walvud Manuscript is unclear on details, text indicates that all of these Dark Lords died in the year 3951 B.B.Y."
 * Thst's why I think the article name should be changed.--Jedi Kasra 00:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Although I think the artice should be called Darth Traya, I see the need to point out that for about 99% of the game the targeting reticule calls her Kreia. Its pretty much the same with Jacen Solo. NaruHina ''' Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|20px]] 21:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering that Deesra wasn't present and didn't know about what Kreia said to the Exile during her travels, I don't think that's an adequate reason for moving the article. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 01:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia's existance was mostly unknown to the galaxy after she was overthrown by Sion and Nihilus, so Darth Traya is likely the only name, or most recent name, that could be found for her. Also, none of the Jedi, excluding Atris and the Exile, knew of her plot to destroy the Force as far as we know.  The targeting reticule is more of a game mechanic.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but what does Kreia tell the Exile? "There must always be a Darth Traya." And that is her.--Jedi Kasra 17:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, in the Essential Guide to the Force on page 145, its says this:

- Recording of Gannod Chant


 * Firstly, when Kreia says there must always be a Darth Traya, she is not referring to herself but Atris. And again, Gannod Chant did not know of Kreia's conversations with the Exile. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 17:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Same thing as what Grand Moff Tranner said. And as I said before, Kreia's existance was mostly unknown to the galaxy after she was overthrown by Sion and Nihilus, so Darth Traya is likely the only name, or most recent name, that could be found for her.  There must always be a Darth Traya doesn't necessarily mean someone who is called Darth Traya, only someone who has the same beliefs and/or uses betrayal.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But, Kreia was not redeemed, despite her saying to the Exile,

And Atris despite falling to the dark side, never did take the name of Darth Traya, did she? Plus, when you ask Atris about Kreia, she says that "Kreia" is not her name. This could be interpreted that Kreia retitled herself "Darth Traya" or it could be a reference to her original name, if her name wasn't really Kreia. She was called "Kreia" by the Exile because that is what she called her throughout the whole adventure. Atton refers to her as "Sith". And just because the Exile called her Kreia doesn't mean that we shouldn't change the article to Darth Traya. Obviously, someone was calling her Darth Traya after the destruction of Malachor V, where else did Deesra got the name of Traya? Also, remember, Sith such as Darth Vader and Darth Caedus responded to their names, Anakin and Jacen, respectively. Let's face it, whether called Kreia or not, she died as "Darth Traya".--Jedi Kasra 18:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC) "The conflict continued for another decade as other Dark Lords tried to rise up and fill the void left by Malak and Revan. Led by Darths Traya, Nihilus, and Sion, the Jedi were hunted to near extinction, and the Jedi Council was forced into hiding. But Traya herself was betrayed, and in response she honed a Jedi exile into a weapon to destroy both the Jedi and Sith orders. Upon learning Traya's true intent, the exile turned against her and brought a swift end to her insidious plot."
 * Because that's not the whole quote, its taken out of context, Sir. I agree with your position, and if I had the rest I'd post it but she later said that she was hoping the Exile would say that and that it was too late. NaruHina ''' Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|20px]] 21:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether she was redeemed or not doesn't change if she was Darth Traya. When she died, she acted as neither Jedi nor Sith, only trying to destroy the Force.  In the final cut of the game, Atris never took the name, but from what I've heard it was cut because Obsidian wasn't given enough time.  It seemed to be implied anyway, though.  Atton always calls her Kreia; I don't remember him calling her 'Sith' until maybe after the Jedi Masters were killed.  What the historians learned about Kreia likely originiated from Malachor V, when she was called Darth Traya.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 18:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, Atton does call her Sith after she killed the Masters. And if you play the canon female Exile, Mical, will discover that she was Traya, but she makes him forget who she really is. She's Traya, guys. So if she is known in universe post 3,951 BBY as Darth Traya, the only logical conclusion would be to change the name to Traya.--Jedi Kasra 19:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, no one heard of the conversations between the Exile and Kreia, in which Kreia said that she was once a Sith, "once" being the key word. She gave up being a Jedi and a Sith, which makes putting this page at "Darth Traya" rather stupid. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but that conversation happens during the quest to find the lost Masters, not after Kreia once again becomes Sith. Why doesn't someone just ask a LFL official, or the game developers?--Jedi Kasra 20:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia being a Sith is only Atton's opinion, and he knew nothing of her plot to destroy the Force. Kreia didn't tell Mical that her name was specifically Darth Traya.  If there are very few recordings in history post-4 BBY or 100 BBY of Anakin and everyone knew him only as Vader, does that mean his page should be moved to Darth Vader?  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, of course not. But further evedence for Kreia being a Sith is at the title screen. If you play as a Sith, you end up at the main screen, but if you play the canonical light side version, Darth Traya appears, and since only Sith appear at the title screen.--Jedi Kasra 23:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's, like the targeting reticule, more of a game mechanic. Sion had to be shown at the beginning because he was the only Sith shown until Telos, then it was Nihilus, and after Nihilus died they most likely didn't want to use Sion again so instead they used Kreia.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 23:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, if you use the Force sight power, you'll see that she's colored red, for being dark-sided, when through the whole game she's consistently colored grey, for being neutral.--Jedi Kasra 23:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Dark side doesn't mean Sith. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * After the Exile defeats Atris, I believe she tells her that Kreia is Sith. I don't know the exact dialogue, but she confirms that she is one of the Dark Lords, and that Kreia is no longer her name.--Jedi Kasra 14:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you can provide that quote, I'll concede. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 16:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Give me a few days, and I'll have it. Til' then.--Jedi Kasra 22:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * While the reticule calls her "Darth Traya", the script only calls her "Kreia" in the Malachor sections. And the last line possible to give to her is "Rest now, Kreia. Your time in this place is over." She died known as Kreia. - Lord Hydronium 23:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's good evidence to support keeping the page where it is now. I never thought about the script itself. Thank you, Lord Hydronium. Jedi Kasra, I'm sorry, but now I must take back what I said earlier. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but like I said, she called Kreia such throughout the whole game. She wanted to redeem Kreia. As for the Solo-Skywalker clan, they called Jacen "Caedus" in an attempt to detach themselves from him. There are a bunch of sources that clearly state that Kreia was Darth Traya, like this one from Star Wars Insider :

- Heritage of the Sith

Aren't articles in Star Wars Insider like these considered canon? This source called her Traya, the New Essential Chronology and the Essential Guide to the Force call her Traya, and they were all released after KotOR II. What more do we need?--Jedi Kasra 23:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * NEC and EGTTF both use the name "Kreia" as well (though they say "Darth Kreia" for some reason). - Lord Hydronium 23:42, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: On pg. 24 of The New Essential Chronology, it mentions, "Darth Kreia", Dan Wallace said it was an error, but it was repeated in the Essential Guide to the Force, although it was the same paragraph from the NEC.--Jedi Kasra 23:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And like I said, Dan Wallace said it was a mistake.--Jedi Kasra 23:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But the real question is this: Which part of it was a mistake? The "Darth" part, or the "Kreia" part? Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Lord Hydronium's evidence is very good. And the Exile did know of the Traya identity halfway through the game - ""Know that there was once a Darth Traya."  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 23:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's a link to what he said. Dan Wallace's blog on the NEC: --Jedi Kasra 00:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't do us much help, though. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Mistake or no, she's still canonically called Kreia in later years. - Lord Hydronium 00:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Still called Kreia in later years? She is also called Traya, more frequently than she's called Kreia. She is more commonly known, amongst the Jedi and Sith, as Darth Traya. What more do we need?--Jedi Kasra 00:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Can't somebody ask Dan Wallace or somebody else whether she is Traya or Kreia? Surely he is on starwars.com?--Jedi Kasra 00:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * She was known as Kreia when she died. She was known as Kreia to everyone around her in her last years. She's still known as Kreia in later years, though her other name is used interchangeably as well. I think that's plenty keep the title at Kreia. - Lord Hydronium 00:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And I would highly recommend against bugging Dan over what the title of our article should be. - Lord Hydronium 00:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * People knew Jacen Solo as such when he died, he was known as such to everyone around him in his last years, Caedus is probably used as interchangebly as Jacen Solo, so why did we change that article to Darth Caedus? If the Exile and her companions called her Kreia after her death, why did Deesra Luur Jada refer to her as "Darth Traya", instead of Kreia? It's obvious I'm at the losing end of this argument, and I apologize for making an issue out of this.--Jedi Kasra 01:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The difference is Caedus is for all intents and purposes officially named that, he thinks of himself as it, everyone calls him it, the out of universe stuff in the Dramatis Personae and blurb for Millennium Falcon call him that, and 100 years later that's the only way we've ever heard him referred to. - Lord Hydronium 01:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia didn't say to Atris "Oh, by the way, my name is Darth Traya" as Jacen did. If people are serious above asking LucasArts, I'm registered on a forum where there's weekly LucasArts Q&A.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I actually am serious. Before we close this discussion, will you please ask them, just to be safe?--Jedi Kasra 03:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, but the forum is temporarily down right now. I think the Q&A might be just for The Force Unleashed, but I could ask one of the administrators to send it anyway because it's for Wookieepedia.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. With an article we really need to be sure before we decide to keep/switch something.--Jedi Kasra 03:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Here are some quotes from the game, the first one is from the dark sided version, but even if she is redeemed, it would probably still apply since Atris could no longer fill the role of Darth Traya if redeemed.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 14:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

"There must always be a Darth Traya. And if it will not be her, then I must assume that role, amd as always, bring about the betrayal of the Jedi and the Sith"

- Darth Traya, to a dark-sided Exile after killing Atris

Timeline Issue
On the article page, it states the following:

"It came the time when Revan was apprehended, stripped of his identity, and sent after his former apprentice. With Malak's defeat, however, memories of his former self came back to haunt him, and he remembered the academy on Malachor.[6] He made for the shattered remains of Malachor V and found Kreia, who completed his training and made him ready to leave the Jedi Order once and for all."

However, I was always under the impression that Kreia teaching Revan how to leave the Order once and for all took place just Before the Mandalorian Wars. Revan did return to Malachor V, and thus rediscovered knowledge of the True Sith, and went off to the Unknown Regions. I don't think he met Kreia at Malachor V, as I was always under the impression she arrived to Malachor V later, along with Sion and Nihilus, after fleeing Korriban. (As per the "Several dark lords were suspected to have fled to the corners of the galaxy" loading screen message on Korriban). Was it explicitly stated that Revan found Kreia on Malachor V again? Or was this an assumption made by whoever wrote this article? If it was stated, can you please provide a source for the "finding Kreia" part.

--Brukhar 01:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's all bollocks, so I removed it.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 08:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia says Revan came to her both before and after his amnesia, and by that time she was already thought to be dead and nowhere to be found, so...--Jinger 10:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * She said it was after he had killed Malak which makes that moot. NaruHina ''' Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|20px]] 09:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Prediction about the fate of the Mandalorians?
Hello, first time writing here.

Kreia predicts the fate of the Mandalorian people in Malachor.

"They will die a death that will last millennia, until all that remains is their code, their history, and, in the end, the shell of their armor upon the shell of a man,too easily slain by Jedi." ―Darth Traya[src]

The explanation for that is this:

"Traya was able to predict the death of Jango Fett at the hands of Mace Windu nearly 4,000 years later, in a prophecy relating to the fate of the Mandalorians. "

This explanation seems to ignore Boba Fett, infact, "shell of a man" would seem to be a good description of a clone, which he was. Atleast, while playing, the first thing to pop into my head was Boba, not Jango. Though, I'm not certain, what is the canon status of, whether or not Boba was infact slain in ROTJ? Nevertheless, the mandalorian "line" did not die with Jango.

Jarska 16:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)Jarska

Boba want killed, so her prediction doesnt refer to him.92.20.223.90 12:56, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

"too easily slain by Jedi" is a comment on Boba being killed by Luke in the 6th movie. The writer might not've read the expanded-universe material in which Boba esccapes the Sarlaac and becomes Mandalore during the Yuuzhang Vong invasion. When Boba Fett was alone he would be in Mandalorian armor but not a proper mandalorian b/c the clans're gone, so "all that remains is...their armor". During Jango Fett's lifetime there were still other Mandalorians. --(Unsigned)


 * Expanded Universe material would generally acknowledge other EU material as being true. Therefore, no - I doubt it's Boba. --Kessel 22:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Another consideration is that HAN accidentally bashed Boba's jet pack, sending him into the pit. Not Luke. -BaronGrackle 18:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, he didnt die at all, and certainately not at the hands of a jedi, therfore the prediction doesnt refer to Boba. –K.A.J•T•C•E• 18:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Boba was a clone, so he might not be considered a "true" mandalorian... maybe an anti-cloning thought by the writers...


 * No. It would hardly be right for a non-true-mandalorian to be mandalore would it? - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 08:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * She could have seen Jango but not Boba, you know...or a possible future (which, apparently, is "always in motion"). - Milo Fett [Comlink] 15:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Boba wasn't a mandalorian-he just adopted the clothing in honor of his father. Jango was a mandalorian seeing as he was raised by them. So Kreia was right in a sense that the mandalorians will die a death because Jango Fett was the last mandalorian with mandalorian knowledge, Boba knew nothing about the mandalorians. Devan2 18:15, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if that is fair to say, I mean he was raised by his father for a good 8 years or so. One would think that if you were raised by a Mandolorian you would pick up a thing or two about them. While I'm not sure what we would consider a true "Mandolorian" to be, I don't think it is a valid claim to say he knew nothing about the mandolorians.  In fact now that I am thinking about it, Jango taught their language to him; and as after taking a linguistic anthropology course, I can say without doubt that you can learn loads about a culture from their language. The Inuit have around 20 odd words for snow, I wouldn't be surprised if the mandolorians have around 50 for Explosion.  Or to put it bluntly,  it is way too much of a generalization to say that Boba Kewn nothing about the mandalorians. Darth Dar Binks 09:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Female Sith
I think you're forgetting to put in the category and I would suggest we put it in, since she was a Sith Lord (and it's being protected).

Interwiki
Since the page is shielded I can't add interwiki link for russian version. Please add Крея to the list. --Darth Igel 05:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Complete Revision of Sub sub-section Encounter with the Exile
In as much as being a newly registered member, I decided that I would ask for opinions from others before doing a complete revision of this Sub sub-section - and before possibly stepping on a few toes. I have been thinking of doing this for a while now, long before I registered. It appears to me that there are several points stated that are incorrect or misleading. I also wanted to change the title to something like - First Encounter with the Exile - or some such, although this too isn't totally correct, since Kreia is the one who brings the Exile aboard the Ebon Hawk from the Harbinger. Lastly, I would like to add more information. I would very much like to hear what others have to say about my revision idea. Cylka 06:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * both strengthening each other in the knowledge that they had survived the void that had befallen them - I believe this references something that Kreia briefly mentions to the Exile about both of them being cut off from the Force in the past, but it doesn't seem to work here
 * Bound by hands of death - The only sources I've found state that hands of death is a carnivorous plant
 * Kreia had the only means of accessing the Ebon Hawk's navicomputer.[12] - I may be wrong, but in the pc version of the game that I played, this was speculation by Peragus employees, while only the utility droid T3-M4 truly had access


 * I think someone might care about those little phrases, but go ahead all the same, it's not like they won't be able to change it again. It's true, however, that Kreia had the only means of accessing the navicomputer. As you leave the dorms on Peragus, Kreia meets you on the administration level, and if you tell her you don't want her to tag along, she says "and if you cannot see beyond yourself and your own needs, then you should know that I have the only means of accessing the Ebon Hawk's navicomputer. Without it, we both are trapped here." --Jinger 12:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know. I must have missed that one. I most definitely plan on spending some time on research before I edit anything. There's no sense in editing to make things worse instead of better. Cylka 20:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Kreia/Darth Traya Rnd. 2
Since the KotOR Campaign Guide says she died as Darth Traya, is there any reason why she shouldn't be moved to that name?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 15:31, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Some more food for thought. The TOR website also calls her Darth Traya, and says she was always a Sith when she was traveling with the Exile. It also says that after departing for the unknown reigons, neither Revan nor the Exile were ever heard from again. Jayce Carver 09:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For simplicity purposes, please post all future comments on the matter here. // ~mikah~  22:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Fall to the dark side
this part kinda reports the small resure that was on LA page before kotor2 release (as lore) but what we see in game seem to point to a different story.

it seem that Kreia was present at malachor V at the time of the final battle, she describes pretty well the "cruelity" of malachor many time into the game (dialogue with bao dur about the mass generator, the dialgoues with the jedi enclave, even the opening dialogue with the exile on malachor when she ask if malachor is as she remembered it) the dialogue with the jedi enclave also heavily point to the fact that Kreia partecipated to the war herself and so was not "in search of clues following Revans steps", she describes how every battle in the manda wars where "crafted" to draw the jedi to the dark side.

She also knew that the exile cut himself from the force and... - Kreia always refers to the sith lords (herself included) as wounds in the force - Kreia also states (DS dialogues, jedi enclave) that the sith lords learnt to feed on the force from him, that of course  imply that they where all present on malachor V at the time when the planet was destroyed and the exile cut himself from the force - Kreia also states that she instructed other sith lords (when she tells her story before Traya shortcut) - there is also the dialogue after the landing of the ebon hawk on Dxun moon that clearly shows how Kreia knew what happened there, she knows there was a base there and that a bloody battle (that the exile fought in) was fought nearby.

all of this heavily point to the fact the Kreia partecipated in the manda wars directly and had probably a part in the major battles as Dxun or Malachor V.

Honestly i'm for the theory for Kreia = Kae, but that is not strictly necessary, what is important is that in the game there are tons of hints about her direct involment in the war, so is not that likelly that she was cast out in the later stages of the war and started to follow Revan to see why her teaching failed... she was probably there at his side. Even when the jedi masters tells her that they tought she died on malachor point out that she partecipated to that battle, with the report shown in the article that sentence doesnt make much sense.

in some dialogues she also point out that to partecipate in the war was the right thing to do (i think one with canderous but not 100% sure :P) this also shows that she never questioned her teachings as Revan did the right thing, so it doesnt make much sense that she travel half the galaxy in search of answers about her possible failture if she think that to partecipate in war was right. Zilod 02:48, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The name of this article is officially "Kreia"
Forum:CT Archive/Kreia...or Darth Traya?

Thank you for your attention. Graestan ( Talk ) 04:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Where does "Kreia" come from?
Time to set the record stright. Arren Kae was a historian; she chronicled the history of the Jedi, as well as teaching padawans (among them, Revan). Then, once upon a time, Jedi Master Arren Kae fell in love with General Yusanis of the Echani (even though love is forbidden by the Jedi Code; she BETRAYS the Jedi). Yusanis, by the way, had already fathered 5 children (the handmaidens). Kae bears a child with Yusanis; the Jedi, angered, exile her, leaving her feeling BETRAYED herself (perhaps the whole Revan-teacher thing had something to do with it as well, but seeing as Kreia herself said that, I'm not so sure...). Kae and Yusanis leave for the Mandalorian Wars. Somewhere along the line, Kae "dies" at the last battle on Malachor V, leaving Yusanis with the baby. Yusanis then goes on to become a senator, he challenges Revan to a duel, he dies, yadda yadda yadda. Kae, on the other hand, isn't dead--she was merely broken, corrupted by the destruction wrought on Malachor and sought refuge with a little group called the Sith. She became a Sith Lord with the alias "Darth Traya" and allied herself with Sion and Nihilis. Like with the Jedi, she chronicled the history of the Sith in the Trayus Academy, learning the ancient Sith secrets, all that good stuff. But, as is the nature of the Sith, Sion and Nihilis clung to their power and exiled Traya (with Sion it was more of a traditional Star Wars master-apprentice thing; Nihilis, the Lord of Hunger, just wanted some more power), BETRAYING her. Traya believed that the constant struggle between good and evil was exploited by the Force to achieve a measure of balance; or worse, the good-evil struggle was a game to the Force (if it was a sentient entity) where all life were the puppets. Traya, disgusted by this revelation, sought a way to kill the Force. She finds the exile, and she had to think of a clever, non-revealing 2nd alias quick. "Kae...Traya...K-Traya...Kraya...Kreia!" See for reference. 69.114.37.162 07:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)Scifidownbeat Sorry, I didn't realize that wasn't what the talk pages were for. I'll keep further speculation to myself, then.
 * I read the first two sentences and then the last sentence. Keep speculation off the talk pages. Really. Do we really need to beat this dead horse? -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 07:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Prophecy about Mandalorians
"They will die a death that will last millennia, until all that remains is their code, their history, and, in the end, the shell of their armor upon the shell of a man, too easily slain by Jedi."

Surely the above would prophesy (with the same accuracy) the death of Boba Fett to Luke, instead of Jango Fett to Mace Windu?
 * Considering Boba Fett's not dead, no. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 01:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)