Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2008 August 23

[20:00] <@Graestan> THIS IS THE MOFFERENCE [20:00] <+JaySun> Welcome. [20:00] <+StarNeptune> I BID YOU ALL DARK GREETINGS [20:00] <@Graestan> Everyone: stay on topic, please. [20:00] <@Ataru> *cough dark greetings cough* [20:00] <@Ataru> Or I will kick you. [20:00] <+JorrelFraajic> Ataru? Kicking people? :P [20:00] <+NaruHina> Hi [20:00] <+Fiolli> Dark greetings I bid you all! [20:00] * @Graestan greets all darkly [20:00] <@Ataru> I"m a horrible jerk at Mofferences. Let's go. [20:00] * +JorrelFraajic says hi to all. [20:00] * +JaySun (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-b8b29e34d3626f11) Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") [20:00] <+NaruHina> DARK GREETINGS [20:00] <@Ozzel> So, who's got the glove of Darth Vader? [20:00] <+GrandMoffTranner> Ditto [20:00] <+The4dotelipsis> "I'm a horrible jerk" - fixed. [20:00] <@jSarek> I BID YOU DARK GREETINGS! [20:00] <@Toprawa> and in life [20:00] <@jSarek> There. [20:00] * Graestan changes topic to 'DARK GREETINGS - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [20:01] <+Fiolli> Dark greetings I bid you all! [20:01] <+IFYLOFD> Dark Greetings to All! [20:01] <@Graestan> Alright, Topic Number One. [20:01] <+JorrelFraajic> XD @ Ozz. [20:01] <@Graestan> Ataru, I am not copy/pasting your tl;dr. [20:01] <@Ataru> Okay. [20:01] <@Graestan> Please explain for everyone. [20:01] <+DC> Let's do this! [20:01] <@Graestan> :P [20:01] <@Ataru> Basically, I don't see the point of the Mofference. [20:01] <+StarNinja99> Lets go [20:01] <@Ataru> It's silly and attracts pointless questions. [20:01] <@Graestan> -_- [20:01] <@Ataru> Most of which end up deleted. [20:01] <@Graestan> The Mofference? [20:01] <@LtNOWIS> Mofference? [20:01] <@Ataru> The KB. [20:01] * @Ataru headdesks. [20:01] <@Graestan> Ah, yes. [20:01] <+Jedimca0|Busy> XD [20:01] <@Ataru> Darnit. [20:01] <+IFYLOFD> Yep. [20:02] <@LtNOWIS> I like mofferences, for one. [20:02] <@Ataru> Anyway, I'd rather send the questions offsite. [20:02] <@Ozzel> That wasn't confusing. [20:02] <@Graestan> Well, one of the founding points of the KB was to redirect silly SW questions from our more functional boards. [20:02] <@jSarek> The point is to attract silly and pointless questions away from important areas of business. [20:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Yeah, whining about the Mofference at a Mofference. XD [20:02] <@LtNOWIS> We could enforce the standards if we wanted to. [20:02] <@Ataru> Okay, my bad. Focus on the KB, though. [20:02] <+Fiolli> XD [20:02] <+The4dotelipsis> I don't like the offsite thing. [20:02] <+The4dotelipsis> Buut... [20:02] <@LtNOWIS> Like that "What's a good SW book?" one. [20:02] <+The4dotelipsis> I think we could fix this by having a FAQ. [20:02] <@Graestan> I delete most of those ones, NOWIS. [20:02] <@LtNOWIS> Should've just deleted it out of hand. [20:02] <@Ozzel> I support the FAQ idea. [20:02] <+The4dotelipsis> And, tougher enforcement of SH and CT rules. [20:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Anyway, wasn't the point of the KB essentially "Ask here, not on a talk page? [20:02] <@Graestan> I only archive ones that answer a hard question accurately. [20:02] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [20:02] <+GrandMoffTranner> Ditto [20:03] <+JorrelFraajic> That way, we don't have to archive crap? [20:03] <@Ataru> I delete probably at least 1 thread at the KB every time I visit. [20:03] <+DC> i agree. [20:03] <+The4dotelipsis> If someone has a question not answered in the FAQ, they can ask it on that talk page. [20:03] <+Jedimca0|Busy> The KB keeps the silly stuff contained [20:03] <@Ataru> But we shouldn't waste our time with Q&A. [20:03] <+The4dotelipsis> And then no one will care. [20:03] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Jedimca. [20:03] <@Graestan> I clean out the back end of the KB once a week, on average. I'd say abuot half the threads remain. [20:03] <@LtNOWIS> Yeah, FAQ seems like a waste of time, and wouldn't supplant the KB [20:03] * R_F (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [20:03] <+Jedimca0|Busy> if we delete it... we'll get all of that on the talk pages and the other forums [20:03] <@Graestan> From Gonk: [20:03] <+JorrelFraajic> And Admin Autonomy allows the deletion of the crap. [20:03] <+StarNeptune> Some people ask stupid question in SH though too [20:03] <@Graestan> Yes, the KB has lots of noobs and dumbasses. But so does IRC, and [20:03] <@Graestan> nobody's suggesting shutting it down. [20:03] <+AdmirableAckbar> My vote is Kill. [20:03] <@Ozzel> FAQ would be a good supplement though. [20:03] <@Ataru> IRC doesn't require deletions. [20:03] <+DC> My vote is Keep. [20:04] <@Graestan> We'll vote in a moment. [20:04] <+IFYLOFD> I say take down the KB [20:04] <+DC> But have strong regualtions towards i. [20:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> IRC doesn't need maintenance. [20:04] <@jSarek> Star: Then they should be moved to the KB. [20:04] <@Ataru> Hold off on the votes, guys. [20:04] <+DC> it** [20:04] <@Graestan> Acky: I am more than happy to do all the maintenance myself, if need there be. [20:04] <@Graestan> I [20:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> If we keep the KB, admins need to /start enforcing the rules/. [20:04] <@Graestan> I am already at it. [20:04] <@Ataru> We already enforce them somewhat. [20:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> More than one or two. [20:04] <@Ataru> But there are varying interpretations of the rules. [20:04] <+DC> Well, then, more have to pay attention to it. [20:04] <+JorrelFraajic> I'm just not sure I see the harm in having the KB. [20:04] <+Fiolli> I propose that we don't kill it, but that we create an FAQ section such as a "READ FIRST" before anything is asked. Then, if it is asked in spite of the FAQ, instant delete. [20:04] <@LtNOWIS> I could start enforcing them more. [20:04] * Toprawa sets mode: +v R_F [20:05] <+AdmirableAckbar> Ataru/Grae: and at the same time, other admins actually reply to rulebreaking threads. [20:05] <@LtNOWIS> We could get better rules too. [20:05] <@Ozzel> Per FiollI. [20:05] <@Ataru> Fiollli: Nobody will follow that. [20:05] <@Graestan> I don't mind the dumb questions. I just delete them after a few weeks. [20:05] <@jSarek> Actually. . . I think we ought to take down all the rules and let it be a free for all. Ask anything, say anything, and the admins never have to look at the pile. :-p [20:05] <+JorrelFraajic> Since we really don't worry about server space, and it doesn't involve actual articles. [20:05] <@Ataru> jSarek: O.o [20:05] <+AdmirableAckbar> It goes in RC, Jorrel. [20:05] <+AdmirableAckbar> That's enough for me. [20:05] <+Fiolli> If they don't follow the rules, their threads get deleted. Creation of a thread three consecutive times is permabanning. [20:05] <+DC> jSarek: That would create chaos. [20:05] <+JorrelFraajic> So change the preferences. [20:05] <@Ataru> Too much to monitor, Fiolli. [20:05] <@jSarek> DC: No, it would only magnify it. ;-) [20:05] <@Graestan> Also from Gonk: [20:05] <+StarNeptune> See the problem with KB is that it's for people who are too effing lazy to read the article [20:05] <@LtNOWIS> Also, we could warn people who consistently create crappy threads. [20:05] <@Graestan> As evidenced here: [20:05] <+The4dotelipsis> But then you can't see SH changes, or CT changes. [20:05] <+AdmirableAckbar> No, because then I won't see CT changes, Jorrel. [20:05] <@Graestan> http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Bronze_double-blade&t=20080808064120 [20:05] <@Graestan> ...the community seems to appreciate the existence of KB. I know I do, [20:05] <@Graestan> personally; I have in the past encountered some puzzles that were too [20:05] <@Graestan> obscure to be resolved with a quick trip to IRC, and required time and [20:05] <@Graestan> multiple eyes to find the solution. [20:05] <+StarNeptune> like this guy: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:How_did_Darth_Krayt_survide_till_130_Aby [20:06] <+JorrelFraajic> That's what the Watchlist is for./ [20:06] <@Ataru> Those tend to be the exception, though. [20:06] <@Graestan> I tend to cull those threads. [20:06] <+DC> There are a lot of stupids questions, but some are golden. [20:06] <@Graestan> As well, no one is obliged to answer them. [20:06] <@Ataru> The KB is *mostly* a gathering place for idiots. Even if Grae smashes them all, more come. [20:06] <+The4dotelipsis> Pish. Damned if I'm going to watch every thread. [20:06] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per 4dot. [20:06] <@Ataru> Per 4dot. [20:06] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [20:06] <+JorrelFraajic> There's 3 CTs going on right now. [20:06] <@jSarek> Ataru: But at least they're going there and not the SH or talk pages. [20:06] <+Fiolli> Per 4dot. [20:06] <@LtNOWIS> If "Easily found by reading the article" isn't a stated rule, it should be. [20:06] <@Ataru> jSarek: Oh, but they do. [20:06] <+AdmirableAckbar> Got to Lit. There's a forum for asking questions there. [20:06] <@Graestan> Well, I take them out as I archive. I have no problem doing so. [20:06] <@LtNOWIS> Seriously, the current KB rules are just some crap Culator came up with. [20:06] <+DC> I disagree with you, 4dot [20:06] <+AdmirableAckbar> There are also forums for Dark Horse and Sw.com. [20:06] <@Ataru> The talk pages and SH are just as clogged as before. [20:07] <@LtNOWIS> As an example for what actual rules would look like. [20:07] <+StarNeptune> That guy that I linked to also asked the same question on Krayt's talk page [20:07] <+JorrelFraajic> Lit requires a long and, well, offputting registration process. [20:07] <+AdmirableAckbar> Where you can ask Stradley or Chee whatever you like. [20:07] <@Ataru> If nothing else, we should get better rules on it. [20:07] <@jSarek> Acky: Not everyone wants to go through their registration process. [20:07] <@Ozzel> I believe "KB is not s supplement to reading" is on there, Nowis. [20:07] <+StarNeptune> when the answer was in the article [20:07] <+JorrelFraajic> Why would anyone go there, if you can simply press an edit button and ask as an anon? [20:07] <+Jedimca0|Busy> The KB is indeed mostly a gathering place for idiots... but would you want them to gather on Talk:Palpatine or another talk page? [20:07] <+AdmirableAckbar> jSarek: well, tough for them. [20:07] <@Ataru> Jedimca0|Busy: At least I have case to ban for disruption then. [20:07] <@LtNOWIS> They used to clog talk pages worse, right? [20:07] <+DC> They would get blocked for specualtion. [20:07] <+IFYLOFD> That's what forums are for. [20:07] <+JorrelFraajic> Acky: Then they'll just go to the article's talk page. [20:07] <+DarthDragon> but arent the talk pages supposed 2 be about the article, not the character, event, etc [20:07] <@Graestan> In all honesty, I don't see why those who have a major problem with the KB's existence just focus on other parts of the site. [20:07] <+JorrelFraajic> Or the SH. [20:08] <+Jedimca0|Busy> or maybe they will spread across the entire wiki... [20:08] <@Ataru> RC, Graestan. [20:08] <@Graestan> don'tjust focus* [20:08] <+AdmirableAckbar> Grae: I like to focus on all aspects of the site. [20:08] <@jSarek> Per Grae. [20:08] <+Jedimca0|Busy> at least now we know where they are... [20:08] <+DC> Per Grae [20:08] <@LtNOWIS> Recent changes seems like a crappy reason to axe something. [20:08] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [20:08] <+NaruHina> DAmn... [20:08] * +NaruHina (i=REDACTED@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-452bd1e55c0afea2) has left #wookieepedia [20:08] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae [20:08] <@Graestan> I have no issues with it, so I patrol it. [20:08] <@Ataru> o.O Recent changes is more than a little important, NOWIS. [20:08] * +sannse (n=sannse@wikia/pdpc.active.sannse) has left #wookieepedia ("later all") [20:08] <@jSarek> That's why I argue for less rules, not more. The less admins have to enforce, the less they have to involve themself in that thing. [20:08] <+Fiolli> I agree; an RC issue is no reason to axe it. [20:08] <+Jedimca0|Busy> also, Per Grae [20:09] <+DC> If ther are people monitering the RC, then it shouldnt be a problem Ataru [20:09] * +MasterGump (i=REDACTED@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-91f6b8c3b816a212) has left #wookieepedia [20:09] <@jSarek> So long as it's not being used for NPA or other serious abuses, just let the crap fly. Set a bot to trim anything older than a month old, and forget about it. [20:09] <@Graestan> jSarek: I simply don't enforce, really, except as I archive. As with SH threads, if there's nothing substantive to keep, it goes. [20:09] <@LtNOWIS> Yeah, but, RC is always going to have stuff you don't need to worry about in it. [20:09] <+Fiolli> What if we more-or-less let the KB die off by just simply ignoring it? [20:09] <+Fiolli> Any takers? [20:09] <+Fiolli> :D [20:09] <+AdmirableAckbar> No, because there are people why reply to every thread. [20:09] <+JorrelFraajic> That won't work. [20:09] <+AdmirableAckbar> Like Soresumakashi. [20:09] <@Ataru> Most people who answer in KB are n00bs. [20:09] <+AdmirableAckbar> Here's a possible solution: [20:09] <@Ataru> There are n00bs answering anons and vice versa. [20:09] <@Ataru> It's not a reliable source of info most times. [20:09] <@Graestan> The bug-zapper effect is /too valuable/ to get rid of. [20:09] <@LtNOWIS> yeah, the crappy answers are a bad thing. [20:09] <+JorrelFraajic> That is true; sometimes you have the misleader. [20:09] <@Graestan> We can't have that crap on the SH. [20:10] <+DC> Keep the BS at the KB. [20:10] <@Ataru> Graestan: So you're saying we need a "Stupid Forum" to collect idiots? [20:10] <+Fiolli> Look, I don't want to kill it. It takes crap off the articles and talk pages. [20:10] <+The4dotelipsis> I want a bugzapper that will have one name though. [20:10] <+The4dotelipsis> "Talk:FAQ" [20:10] <@jSarek> Ataru: Basically, yes, we need that. [20:10] <+JorrelFraajic> And yeah, getting rid of the KB *is not* going to get rid of the idiots. [20:10] <@Graestan> Well, sure, but other, more experienced users use it too. [20:10] <+The4dotelipsis> That would solve the RC problem. [20:10] <+AdmirableAckbar> The KB stays, but strictly for only canonically answerable questions. Bad answers or speculatory answers get reverted. Correct, sourced answers are stayed. [20:10] <@Ataru> Can we at least get it off a forum style? [20:10] <+GrandMoffTranner> Sounds good [20:10] <+JorrelFraajic> 4dot: It'll still clog the RCs. [20:10] <@Graestan> Per Acky. [20:10] <@Ataru> Much easier to watch in RC if it's *one* page. [20:10] <+DC> good for me. [20:10] <+AdmirableAckbar> Rulebreaking answers get delted. [20:10] <+Jedimca0|Busy> yes, we need a place where the idiots can just be idiots... a place where we don't have to follow them around reverting stuff. [20:10] <@Graestan> Per Acky. [20:10] <+The4dotelipsis> Yeah, but I know what to ignore then. [20:10] <@Ataru> And not a thousand stupid little forums. [20:11] <+IFYLOFD> If we do keep the KB we need strict rules. Per Acky. [20:11] <@LtNOWIS> One page could work [20:11] <@Ataru> Or at least, subpages. [20:11] <@LtNOWIS> That's how they do it on Wiki. [20:11] <@Ataru> But not forums. [20:11] <@Ataru> *Anything* but forums. Gives the wrong connotation, if you know what I mean. [20:11] <@jSarek> Forums are easier for this sort of thing. [20:11] <+The4dotelipsis> Yes, the forum aspect is my biggest problem with it. [20:11] <+Fiolli> I'm a bit lost. How will this be any different than the current set up? [20:11] <@Ataru> People see "forum" and say "OMG I can talk about anything" [20:11] <@Havac> I think the KB is an overflowing bucket of idiocy. [20:11] <@Graestan> Anyone have an issue with Acky's suggested rules/guidelines? [20:11] <@LtNOWIS> !suckipedia Wikipedia:Reference Desk [20:11] <@Nuku-Nuku> LtNOWIS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Wikipedia:Reference_Desk [20:11] <@Havac> However, it keeps the idiocy mostly contained. [20:11] <@Graestan> Hav: Better than no bucket. [20:12] <@Ataru> Acky's suggested rules are fine with me. [20:12] <@LtNOWIS> Same [20:12] * +R_F (n=chatzill@REDACTED) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]") [20:12] <@Ataru> I'd still like it on one page. [20:12] <@Havac> Don't look at it if it annoys you. When you do look at it and it annoys you, delete the stupid threads. [20:12] <+DC> I agree. [20:12] <@Havac> Enforce rules. [20:12] <@Ataru> Or at least subpages. [20:12] <@Graestan> Vote on this? [20:12] <+JorrelFraajic> I don't mind Acky's points. [20:12] <@Graestan> [19:10]		The KB stays, but strictly for only canonically answerable questions. Bad answers or speculatory answers get reverted. Correct, sourced answers are stayed. [20:12] <@jSarek> And the forums structure is more idiot proof than regular editable pages. [20:12] <@Graestan> I support. [20:12] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I have no problem with more rules [20:12] <+IFYLOFD> Per Acky. [20:12] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Acky [20:12] <@Havac> But if you delete the whole thing, the idiocy will flood everywhere else. [20:12] <@LtNOWIS> Enforce rules, some newer rules, overall stricter. [20:12] <+AdmirableAckbar> I support. [20:12] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Sarek, Havac. [20:12] <+Fiolli> I like the idea of a reference desk. [20:12] <@Havac> Keep it. Put rules in place. Enforce them. [20:12] <@Ataru> Support Acky's deal. [20:12] <+JorrelFraajic> Keep it, per Acky. [20:12] <+The4dotelipsis> Oppose. I'd like a format change. [20:12] <@LtNOWIS> I'm open to making it one page. [20:12] <+DC> Keep it. [20:12] <+DarthDragon> keep [20:12] <+DC> per acky [20:12] <+AdmirableAckbar> 4dot: this system could still work on another format. [20:12] <+Fiolli> 4dot: What change do you want? [20:12] <@Ataru> I still want it off the forums, though. [20:13] <@Ataru> Fiolli: I think he wants one page as well. [20:13] <@jSarek> Oppose. I still think increasing rules will only make it more annoying to us. [20:13] <+The4dotelipsis> No forums, just one talk page, and one page of FAQs. [20:13] <@LtNOWIS> Acky's suggestion and the format change are different ideas. [20:13] <+StarNeptune> Can't it just be set up like the old Current Events page was? [20:13] <+Jedimca0|Busy> keep it, per Acky. [20:13] <@Ozzel> Crack down, per Acky. [20:13] <@LtNOWIS> They're not mutually exclusive [20:13] <+AdmirableAckbar> It basically means we -- or the administration, or whoever -- can remove counterproductive answers. [20:13] <@Ozzel> And make an FAQ. [20:13] <@Havac> One page would get out of hand. [20:13] <+JorrelFraajic> Per NOWIS. [20:13] <@LtNOWIS> FAQ would be alright. [20:13] <@Graestan> jSarek: Acky's really not proposing anything much different from what the rules state. We just didn't enforce as much. [20:13] <@Ataru> I dunno about FAQ, but a single Q&A page is much easier to track down than having to check a forum to see if it's KB or SH or w/e. [20:13] <@LtNOWIS> But it wouldn't help too much [20:13] <@Havac> That's not enough space for all the idiocy we have. [20:13] <@jSarek> Star: We dropped that format for major discussion areas because it sucks for that purpose. [20:14] <@LtNOWIS> One page would be like a busy talk page. [20:14] <@jSarek> Grae: I know. I'd like to formalize that lack of enforcement. ;-) [20:14] <+AdmirableAckbar> After it reaches 32 KBs, blank the page. [20:14] <@LtNOWIS> Sections get added a lot, and it gets archived and such [20:14] <@Ataru> Or make new questions as subpages. [20:14] <@Ozzel> I'd be happy to work on an FAQ. [20:14] <+JorrelFraajic> Someone can revert a blank, though. [20:14] <@LtNOWIS> Subpages are stupid. [20:14] <+DarthDragon> i like the idea of an FAQ [20:14] <@Ataru> But *not* something that looks the same as a SH or CT thread. [20:14] <@Ataru> That's my big deal. [20:14] <+Fiolli> Shouldn't we hypothetically archive it instead of simply blanking it? [20:14] <@Ozzel> Also, another reason we should have one: StarWars.com's is no more. [20:14] <@Havac> Ataru: why not. [20:14] <@Havac> *? [20:14] <@LtNOWIS> Archiving is better than blanking. [20:14] <+IFYLOFD> Archive it after it gets to 32 KB. [20:14] <+DC> Ozzel: what? [20:14] <@Ataru> If I'm RC-patrolling, I don't want to have to check every new forum. [20:14] <@jSarek> How about just setting up the code to prepend "Knowledge Bank: to every thread title? That way you'd know it was tripe on Recent Changes and ignore it. [20:14] <@Ataru> Havac^ [20:14] <+JorrelFraajic> Then don't. [20:15] <@Ataru> jSarek: That would work too. [20:15] <@Ozzel> Their Q&A section is gone. [20:15] <+JorrelFraajic> You can ignore a lot of them based on the title. [20:15] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per jSarek [20:15] <@Ataru> Jorrel: Not if they're in SH and need deleted. [20:15] <@Havac> Generally, you can tell by the title. [20:15] <@LtNOWIS> FAQ is also a separate suggestion. [20:15] <+JorrelFraajic> Or, add a "KB" to the auto-create. [20:15] <+The4dotelipsis> Actually, I'd be happy with jSarek's suggestion. [20:15] <@Havac> Otherwise, tough cookies. [20:15] <+DC> Per Jorrel. [20:15] <+IFYLOFD> Per Jorrel. [20:15] <+Fiolli> I kind of like Jorrel's idea. [20:15] <@Ataru> I could go w/ jSarek's suggestion. As long as it's tagged somehow as KB, I'm fine. [20:15] <+JorrelFraajic> As in, Forum:KB-Question [20:15] <+Fiolli> I think it would set it apart. [20:15] <@Ozzel> Yeah, I like the KB idea. [20:15] <@Havac> Ataru, if they're in SH, then someone else will get them. [20:15] <@Graestan> Alright, then. [20:15] <@LtNOWIS> One page works fine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#Letter_frequencies_in_the_Finnish_language.3F [20:15] <+AdmirableAckbar> I prefer the single page. [20:15] <@Graestan> Who can code this? [20:16] <+AdmirableAckbar> You'd have to ask for a new namespace. [20:16] <+AdmirableAckbar> I think. [20:16] <+JorrelFraajic> No you wouldn't. [20:16] <+JorrelFraajic> It comes after the Forum: [20:16] <@Ozzel> No, I think there's an easy was to do it. [20:16] <@Graestan> No, the Inq forum pages work that way. [20:16] <@Ozzel> *way [20:16] <@Ataru> Not if you load the auto-create with Forum:KB-blah. [20:16] <+JorrelFraajic> Therefore, it's just an addition to the title. [20:16] <@Ataru> It can be done. [20:16] <@Ataru> I've done it before, I think. [20:16] <@Havac> You'd just change how the clicky thingy creates the page. [20:16] <@Graestan> Alright, we just got our first volunteer. :P [20:16] <@Ataru> Yeah, I'll change the auto-create. [20:16] <@Darth_Culator> We could always create a separate namespace. [20:16] <+AdmirableAckbar> Okay. [20:16] <@Ataru> What do we want? [20:16] <@Ataru> Forum:KB ? [20:17] <+DC> Yes. [20:17] <@jSarek> That looks good. [20:17] <@Ozzel> Or KB: [20:17] <+JorrelFraajic> I'd prefer Forum:KB-, but it works. [20:17] <+Fiolli> I like KB: [20:17] <+Jedimca0|Busy> looks good [20:17] <+Fiolli> The reason is, it is no longer a forum. [20:17] <+IFYLOFD> KB: [20:17] <@jSarek> Colon would make it all a subpage, wouldn't it? [20:17] <@Ataru> KB: ? [20:17] <@Havac> If we're doing that, we might as well put SH and CT into those forum titles as well. [20:17] <+JorrelFraajic> Double colons seem annoying. [20:17] <+DarthDragon> i like KB: [20:17] <@Ataru> jSarek: No, that's / [20:17] <@Ozzel> Or we could call it KnoBa. [20:17] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav. [20:17] <@Graestan> We've been on this for fifteen minutes. Alright, so the vast number of votes supported Acky's proposal. I think we should move forward. Ataru or someone will code the new name. A FAQ will be proposed/created. [20:17] <@jSarek> No, that would be a slash. YEah, use a colon. [20:17] <@LtNOWIS> Did we vote? [20:17] <@Ataru> I'll get on it after the meeting. [20:17] <+Fiolli> What? [20:17] <+IFYLOFD> Yes, [20:17] <+Fiolli> No vote? [20:17] <@jSarek> LtN: Not yet. [20:17] <@Graestan> On Acky's deal, yes. [20:17] <+JorrelFraajic> In fact, having SH: and CT: sounds like a good idea too. [20:18] <@Havac> This is not a democracy. This is a mofference. [20:18] <@Graestan> I will add his wording to the forum header. [20:18] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Jorrel [20:18] <@jSarek> Per Jorrel. [20:18] <+Fiolli> Per Jorrel. [20:18] <+Jedimca0|Busy> yes [20:18] <@Graestan> Do we really need to vote on the coding? [20:18] <+DarthDragon> per jorrel [20:18] <+Fiolli> Yes. [20:18] <@Ataru> Graestan: I'll load the autocreate on all 3 forus. [20:18] <+Jedimca0|Busy> per Jorrel [20:18] <+Fiolli> :D [20:18] <+IFYLOFD> Per Jorrel [20:18] <@Ataru> *forums. [20:18] <+DC> I dont think so. [20:18] <+JorrelFraajic> Grae: No. [20:18] <+AdmirableAckbar> More to the point, does anyone have any objections? [20:18] <@Havac> We don't need to vote. [20:18] <@Ataru> (Obviously, I support [20:18] <@Graestan> Alright, that's settled, then. [20:18] <@Ataru> Move on, Grae. [20:18] <@Graestan> NEXT! [20:18] <+JorrelFraajic> Next. [20:18] <@Graestan> I'd like to throw around the idea of an easy-access policy updates system for regular users, much like the one Greyman created for the admin e-mail list. Perhaps a link somewhere prominent, and some sort of advertisement on certain parts of the site. Our current system for this is rather insufficient, and I've seen more than one instance of users coming back from protracted absences finding... [20:18] <+IFYLOFD> What's next? [20:18] <@Graestan> ...it difficult to get up to speed. Graestan(Talk) 02:44, 11 July 2008 (UTC) [20:18] <@LtNOWIS> I still think one page would be fine, but this works too. [20:19] <@LtNOWIS> Probably for the best [20:19] <@Graestan> Alright, we have Policy and Consensus Updates. [20:19] <@Havac> There's no way to do it better than the current page. [20:19] <@Graestan> Show of hands from non-admins who know how to find that page? [20:19] <+StarNeptune> me [20:19] <+AdmirableAckbar> me [20:19] <@Havac> Unless you go to sitenotices every time it's updated, which is annoying as hell. [20:19] <+Fiolli> Not me. [20:19] <+The4dotelipsis> Me. :P [20:19] * +JorrelFraajic raises hand. [20:19] <@LtNOWIS> Not me... [20:19] <@Ozzel> Just have it on your watchlist. [20:19] <+IFYLOFD> Not me. [20:19] <+DC> I [20:19] <@Ataru> I think we just need to link some more stuff in more places. [20:19] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ozz. [20:19] <+Jedimca0|Busy> what page? [20:19] <+GrandMoffTranner> Not me [20:19] <@Ataru> That being one of them. [20:19] <@Graestan> Ozz: Not everyone on the site will. [20:19] <@Havac> Watchlist it. [20:19] <+AdmirableAckbar> Link it in the welcome message, maybe. [20:19] <+Fiolli> I didn't even know this page existed. [20:19] <@jSarek> Link the Updates page somewhere on the main page, and in the new user welcome notice. That should do the job, I'd think. [20:19] <@Graestan> I have it on mine. [20:19] <@Havac> It's linked on the portal, isn't it? [20:20] <+DarthDragon> not me [20:20] <+DC> Put it on the main page [20:20] <@Ataru> Main page, certainly, and new user. [20:20] <@Ozzel> Well, let's encourage them to. Put it in the sitenotice or something. [20:20] <@Graestan> I have all Wookieepedia namespace on mine. [20:20] <@LtNOWIS> Does anyone use Community Portal anymore? [20:20] <@Ozzel> Every once in a while. [20:20] <@Graestan> Per Ozzel. [20:20] <@Havac> Link it on the Community Portal. [20:20] <@LtNOWIS> Because that's a good page for that stuff. [20:20] <@Ataru> Community Portal, ha, what a joke. :-P [20:20] <+AdmirableAckbar> I thought that was dead. [20:20] <@jSarek> Yes, it should be watchlisted for any serious user, but that's their prerogative. [20:20] <+JorrelFraajic> Community Portal? [20:20] <@Havac> It ought to already be there, actually. [20:20] <@Graestan> Ozzel's small suggestion is perfect. [20:20] <@Ataru> But it is good for that. [20:20] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ozz. [20:20] <+Fiolli> The CP needs to be badly updated. [20:20] <+IFYLOFD> Per Ozzel/ [20:20] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yeah, per Ozz. [20:20] <+DC> But it def should be in the new user message [20:20] <@LtNOWIS> CP was great back in the day. [20:20] <@Ataru> Don't leave it in sitenotice forever, but for now. [20:20] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Ozzel [20:20] <@Ozzel> I meant put "Put this on your watchlist" in the sitenotice. [20:20] <@jSarek> We still have a CP? Interesting. [20:20] <+Fiolli> lol [20:20] <+JorrelFraajic> Still per Ozz. [20:20] <@Ataru> jSarek: Nobody ever does anything with it. [20:20] <@LtNOWIS> Since Talk:CP was all we had for talking about site stuff. [20:21] <@Ozzel> Just making sure we're on the same page. ;-) [20:21] <@Havac> It's in the freaking sidebar links. [20:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Well, I wasn't, but I'm still onboard. [20:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Hav: Not mine. [20:21] <@Graestan> So, per Ozzel, who supports advertising the policy and consensus updates on the sitenotice? [20:21] <@Graestan> I do. [20:21] <+AdmirableAckbar> Me. [20:21] <@jSarek> Havac: Oh, it's one of the "ignore this link" links on the side.  Got it. ;-) [20:21] <+IFYLOFD> I. [20:21] <@Ozzel> Obviously. [20:21] <@Ataru> I do, for now. [20:21] <+GrandMoffTranner> I [20:21] <+DC> Yep. [20:21] <+Jedimca0|Busy> Support [20:21] <@jSarek> I do. [20:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [20:21] <@Havac> Support the sitenotice. [20:21] <@Ataru> What about linking on main page/CP/welcome message? [20:21] <@Graestan> Alright, this is officially the most productive Mofference ever. :P [20:21] <+The4dotelipsis> Hmm. How often would this be? [20:22] <+JorrelFraajic> Since Admins have to deal with the sitenotice anyway. [20:22] <@jSarek> Can it be added to the side links? [20:22] <@Ataru> Should we vote for that also? [20:22] <@Graestan> Every now and then, Dot. [20:22] <+The4dotelipsis> I kinda like it when there's sometimes nothing in the sitenotice. :P [20:22] <+JorrelFraajic> Maybe on a schedule? [20:22] <@Ozzel> We could also put it in the Monaco sidebar or something. I dunno. [20:22] <+The4dotelipsis> If it's not too frequent, I'm all up for it. [20:22] <@jSarek> Seems a more useful link than, say, Community Portal. ;-) [20:22] <@Ataru> jSarek: I want to propose some things on sidebar links later. [20:22] <+AdmirableAckbar> Can we vote on whether or not to add it to the welcome message? [20:22] <@LtNOWIS> We don't want to burden sitenotice. [20:22] <@Ozzel> Ooh, good idea, Ack. [20:22] <+DC> Yes [20:22] <+JorrelFraajic> I say yes to welcome message. [20:22] <+IFYLOFD> I like the idea of putting it inthe sidebar. [20:22] <+DC> please [20:22] <@LtNOWIS> Welcome message is more for the newbies. [20:22] <@jSarek> Yes. [20:22] <+DC> strong support [20:22] <@Graestan> I don't want such a non-user-friendly page on the sidebar, personally, which is why I had this proposal. [20:22] <@LtNOWIS> But whatver, it's good. [20:22] <+Jedimca0|Busy> Per AdmirableAckbar [20:23] <+AdmirableAckbar> Small problem: [20:23] * Nebulax (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-85b749cd522fb8f6) has joined #wookieepedia [20:23] <+DarthDragon> yes [20:23] <@Ataru> I say yes to sidebar, mainpage, welcome notice. [20:23] <+GrandMoffTranner> Support for welcome message [20:23] <@Graestan> It's far too advanced to always be accessible. [20:23] <+JorrelFraajic> It allows the newbies to see what goes where. [20:23] <+Jedimca0|Busy> put it on the welcome message. [20:23] <+DC> Per Ataru [20:23] <+AdmirableAckbar> because we use SUBST: for some reason, simply changing the template wouldn't work for the existing welcomes. [20:23] <+IFYLOFD> Welcome message. [20:23] <+Jedimca0|Busy> will help new users find new policies. [20:23] <+AdmirableAckbar> We'd need a bot to get them all. [20:23] <@Graestan> Weclome message? Vote. [20:23] <@Graestan> Me. [20:23] <+DC> I [20:23] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [20:23] <+GrandMoffTranner> I [20:23] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yes [20:23] <@Ataru> We have bots. Yes. [20:23] <+IFYLOFD> I. [20:23] <@Ozzel> Yea. [20:23] <@jSarek> Yes. [20:23] <+DarthDragon> I [20:23] <+Jedimca0|Busy> support [20:23] <@Havac> I vote "whatever" [20:23] <@Ozzel> Speaking of the sidebar... I'm gonna add something to the end of the agenda, if I may. [20:23] <@Graestan> Per Havac, even though it's not per me. :P [20:23] <@LtNOWIS> sure, why not [20:24] <@jSarek> We don't need to bot them into old ones, since no one looks at it once they've been here awhile. [20:24] <+DC> go ahead [20:24] <+JorrelFraajic> Since it can't hurt anything. [20:24] <@Graestan> Per Jorrel. [20:24] <@Graestan> It's not too harmful, methinks. [20:24] <+JorrelFraajic> How would it be harmful? [20:24] <@Ataru> I think that's consensus. [20:24] <@Graestan> Sidebar? [20:24] <@Havac> I don't want my talkpage archive spammed by a bot. [20:24] <@jSarek> Per HAvac. [20:24] <+AdmirableAckbar> Eh. [20:24] <@Graestan> Let's vote the sidebar. [20:24] <+DC> I wouldnt care [20:24] <+IFYLOFD> Per Havac [20:24] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav, even though it's still on my main talkpage. [20:24] <@jSarek> Table for Ataru's proposals. [20:24] <+AdmirableAckbar> I don't see the problem. [20:25] <@Ozzel> Yeah, let's only worry about the welcome thing for newbies. [20:25] <+JorrelFraajic> Sidebar: Yes. [20:25] <@LtNOWIS> Bah, newbies. [20:25] <+AdmirableAckbar> That would actually get people to look at it, if they got a new messages. [20:25] <@Ataru> Sidebar: Yes. [20:25] <@LtNOWIS> I never got a welcome message. [20:25] <@Graestan> Sidebar: Sure, why not. [20:25] <+DC> yes [20:25] <+Fiolli> Sidebar:Yes. [20:25] * Xwing328 (n=Xwing328@unaffiliated/xwing328) has joined #wookieepedia [20:25] <+Fiolli> Other: no. [20:25] <+GrandMoffTranner> Sidebar: Sure [20:25] <@jSarek> Move to table the sidebar discussion until Ataru's proposal. [20:25] <+JorrelFraajic> Maybe massive talkpage spam? [20:25] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Xwing328 [20:25] <@LtNOWIS> per jSarek [20:25] <+DarthDragon> sidebar:yes [20:25] <@LtNOWIS> Sidebar is another issue [20:25] * Ozzel sets mode: +v Nebulax [20:25] <@Ataru> I still want to vote on main page linking as well. [20:25] <@LtNOWIS> Main page isn't for editors. [20:25] <@Graestan> Main page linking? I'd say not. [20:25] <@Graestan> Per NOWIS. [20:25] <@LtNOWIS> Or it shouldn't be to much. [20:25] <+JorrelFraajic> Main page? Nah. [20:25] <+DC> Yes [20:26] <+StarNinja99> !peak [20:26] <@Nuku-Nuku> StarNinja99: EmperorJello set a record of 38 people in #wookieepedia on April 01, 2008 at 01:35 AM Eastern Standard Time. You'll need 5 more people to break the peak. [20:26] <@Graestan> Topic. [20:26] <+The4dotelipsis> I'd actually support a main page link. [20:26] <@Ozzel> Nah as well on the Main Page. [20:26] <@Ataru> We have that navigation box thing though. [20:26] <+GrandMoffTranner> Main Page: No [20:26] <+DC> I support a main page link\ [20:26] <@Ataru> Not all that stuff is for editors. [20:26] <+IFYLOFD> Sidebar. [20:26] <@Ataru> I support a main page link. [20:26] <@jSarek> I support a main page link. [20:26] * Darth_Culator sets mode: -v StarNinja99 [20:26] <+AdmirableAckbar> I support a main page link. [20:26] <+JorrelFraajic> If it's on the sidebar, it'll be on the main page. [20:26] <@LtNOWIS> Oppose, like I said [20:26] <+DC> we need it to be more visible, especuially for more active users [20:26] <+DarthDragon> MainPage:No [20:26] <@Ataru> Jorrel: So is FA. [20:26] <+JorrelFraajic> Different. [20:26] <@LtNOWIS> I don't see the pressing problem right now, to be honest. [20:27] <@Havac> I oppose the sidebar link. [20:27] <@Xwing328> sry to be late, but which link? [20:27] <@Ataru> Havac: We're more on main page. [20:27] <@Graestan> I'm a very active user who sees the Main Page less than half the times I log in. [20:27] <+JorrelFraajic> FA shows *what* FA is on for that week/day. [20:27] <@Ataru> Xwing328: WP:M, 2nd item. [20:27] <@jSarek> Xwing: Policy and consensus updates. [20:27] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [20:27] <@Havac> CP is the place where all the useful links get thrown. [20:27] <+The4dotelipsis> Really? I see it nearly every day. [20:27] <@LtNOWIS> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Policy_and_consensus_updates [20:27] <@Graestan> My home is the RCs. [20:27] <@Darth_Culator> What's a main page? [20:27] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae. I rarely visit the main page [20:27] <+DC> That stuff needs to be as visible as possible [20:27] <@Xwing328> thx [20:27] <@Havac> I'd rather try to highlight that than try to highlight everything individually everywhere else. [20:27] <@Graestan> This is why sidebar is more effective than Main Page. [20:27] * +JorrelFraajic uses his watchlist as the link to get to Wookieepedia. [20:27] <@jSarek> Grae: I never see it when logging in. . . but that's because I've been here long enough to also have it watchlisted. [20:28] <+IFYLOFD> Per Grae [20:28] <@Ataru> Meh, the sidebar is the big thing. [20:28] <@Ataru> The Main Page would be nice, though. [20:28] <@jSarek> Grae: Agreed. Okay, change my vote pending adding it to the sidebar. [20:28] <@Havac> They're all wasted effort. [20:28] <+Fiolli> I change my vote. [20:28] <@LtNOWIS> We don't want to clutter the sidebar anymore. [20:28] <@Ataru> We can always do what we usually do in mofferences and move this one to CT. :-P [20:28] <+JorrelFraajic> Of course... what's the harm in a mainpage link? [20:28] <@Havac> Community Portal is the place to clutter with links to everything important. [20:28] <+Fiolli> I say yes to sidebar; eh to main page. [20:28] <+DC> I'd say both, purely because what i was saying before. we need that link to be as visible as possibe. [20:28] <@jSarek> Jorrel: Mainpage busy-ness. [20:28] <@Havac> Why does it need to be dublicated in the sidebar and on the main page too? [20:29] <@Ataru> Havac: Policy updates are pretty important IMHO. [20:29] <@Ozzel> Yes, not both. [20:29] <+JorrelFraajic> That was my original question, Hav. [20:29] <+IFYLOFD> I say yes to sidebar no to main page. [20:29] <@Graestan> Main page has more opposition ATM. [20:29] <+JorrelFraajic> Gotcha, Sarek. [20:29] <@Havac> Highlight CP, not everything on CP individually. [20:29] <@jSarek> Havac: Yeah, it should definitely be added to the wasteland that is Community Portal. [20:29] <@Graestan> This is why we cote on Sidebar. [20:29] <@Xwing328> I think we need to get Consensus Track on the sidebar before worrying about Policy/Consensus (plus that should be linked to on the main CT page anyways) [20:29] <+GrandMoffTranner> Sidebar is enough, I think [20:29] <@Graestan> I support. [20:29] <@Graestan> vote* [20:29] <@Ozzel> Secondary link on the sidebar, of course. [20:29] <+IFYLOFD> Per Tranner. [20:29] <@Havac> Oppose sidebar. [20:29] <+DC> I still think its not enough... [20:29] <+DC> ill still say both [20:30] <+Jedimca0|Busy> A link in the side bar puts it on every page. [20:30] <@jSarek> Xwing: Average users need to see what IS policy more than they need to be involved in making new ones. [20:30] <@LtNOWIS> I oppose both. [20:30] <+JorrelFraajic> Support sidebar, meh on main page. [20:30] <@Ataru> I'm with DC here. [20:30] <@Graestan> Can we get votes? [20:30] <@Ataru> This is something that's important. [20:30] <@jSarek> Support sidebar, oppose on main page. [20:30] <@Ozzel> Yes sidebar, no main page. [20:30] <@Ataru> Support sidebar, support main page. [20:30] <@LtNOWIS> It's user-unfriendly to get readers all caught up in our wonkery. [20:30] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Sarek. [20:30] <+GrandMoffTranner> Support sidebar, no on main page [20:30] <+IFYLOFD> Per jSarek. [20:30] <@Xwing328> Weak support on sidebar [20:30] * GOP-Commando is now known as Revolutionary [20:30] <+Jedimca0|Busy> just the side bar should be enough. [20:30] <+StarNeptune> Support sidebar, IDK about main page [20:30] <+The4dotelipsis> Support both. [20:30] <+DarthDragon> per Sarek [20:30] <+DC> no, users need to know what is going on [20:30] <@Havac> And I say that just because it's important doesn't mean it needs to be highlighted on every single different place it possibly can be. [20:30] <@Havac> Oppose both. [20:31] <@Havac> Pimp Community Portal. Don't pimp everything on it individually on all the other pages. [20:31] <@Havac> It's wasted effort. [20:31] <@Ataru> Dude, we get the idea. [20:31] <@Graestan> Okay, sidebar wins this round. Main page vote? [20:31] <@Graestan> No. [20:31] <+DC> Yes./ [20:31] <@Ozzel> Nay [20:31] <+GrandMoffTranner> No [20:31] <@Ataru> Yes. [20:31] <@LtNOWIS> No. [20:31] <+IFYLOFD> Oppose. [20:31] <+The4dotelipsis> Yay. [20:31] <@Havac> No. [20:31] <+AdmirableAckbar> Someone ought to volunteer to 'pimp' the Portal, then. [20:31] <+StarNeptune> I don't care [20:31] <+AdmirableAckbar> No. [20:31] <@jSarek> No. [20:31] <@LtNOWIS> Seriously, CT has a lot of important crap on it. [20:31] * @Ozzel supports pimping the portal. [20:31] <+JorrelFraajic> Updating Community Portal seems too much of an effort to get involved with, when you can bypass it that easily. [20:31] <@Ataru> I think that's a "no" :-P [20:32] <+DarthDragon> yes [20:32] <+JorrelFraajic> No to main page. [20:32] <@LtNOWIS> Er, CP [20:32] <@Xwing328> oppose [20:32] <@Graestan> So, in answer to my proposal, we will *advertise occasionally on sitenotice and place on the sidebar.* [20:32] <@Graestan> NEXT! [20:32] <@jSarek> Community portal is really a waste of wikispace, as far as I'm concerned, now that the talk page isn't the central location for site-wide discussion. [20:32] <@Ataru> CP is off topic. [20:32] <@Graestan> Oh, this is a narsty one. [20:32] <@Ataru> Please stay on topic. [20:32] <+JorrelFraajic> Continue. [20:32] <@Graestan> I'd also like to discuss the fate of the userbox proposal page. It seems most of the recent nominations have been failures, mainly on the grounds of "too specific" and so forth. If someone wants a userbox, they can quite easily make their own, and more experienced users are frequently available and willing (I am, at least) to help those who aren't so technically inclined (although it really... [20:32] <@jSarek> Grae: Sounds good. [20:32] <@Graestan> ...isn't very technical) create them. At the risk of being considered a hater (although I really am one), I'd like to see if we can't either eliminate this page or convert it into some sort of custom userbox tutorial page. Graestan(Talk) 23:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC) [20:32] <+AdmirableAckbar> Kill userbox proposal, kill useless userboxes. [20:32] <+DC> I say strong kill on that. [20:33] <+JorrelFraajic> I remember when WP:UP was worthwhile. [20:33] <@Graestan> UP is getting reaaaaaally lame. [20:33] <@Ataru> Kill useless userboxes. [20:33] <+DC> Userboxes are pointless. [20:33] <+Jedimca0|Busy> so no more new userbox templates? [20:33] <+GrandMoffTranner> Kill, per Acky [20:33] <+IFYLOFD> Per Acky. [20:33] <+JorrelFraajic> Now, though, we seem to have covered everything that needs covered. [20:33] <+StarNeptune> It used to be cool [20:33] <@Ataru> I've been wanting to crusade against them for awhile. [20:33] <@Graestan> The userboxes currently there are not the issue... for now. [20:33] <+Jedimca0|Busy> sounds good to me. [20:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> If users have a proposal, then can email an admin who can forward it to the others and it can be passed. [20:33] <+IFYLOFD> Just tell the newbies how to make their own. [20:33] <@Graestan> I just want to kill the proposal page. [20:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> Though don't advertise that ability. [20:33] <@Graestan> If you want nifty boxes, make your own. [20:33] <+JorrelFraajic> Problem: When we delete userboxes, it won't delete them off the respective pages. [20:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> Could bots handle that? [20:33] <@Ataru> Jorrel: We're not deleting all userboxes. Just the WP:UP page. [20:33] <+StarNeptune> I made that page because people were making templates of the stupidest shit [20:33] <@jSarek> Wipe them out. All of them. [20:33] <@Ataru> Or at least, we're talking about it. [20:33] <+JorrelFraajic> Misread. [20:33] <+Fiolli> Like killing the KB, I think this might allow for something such as this to be strewn across the site. [20:33] <@Graestan> Like I said, the userboxes themselves are not the issue for now. [20:34] <@Graestan> That's more of a CT thing. [20:34] <+IFYLOFD> Just delete WP:UP [20:34] <+JorrelFraajic> I say WP:UP goes bye-bye. [20:34] <+DC> Userboxes are useless to the site [20:34] <@Graestan> Let's vote on killing WP:UP. [20:34] <+IFYLOFD> Keep userboxes. [20:34] <@Graestan> Kill. [20:34] <+GrandMoffTranner> Kill [20:34] <+JorrelFraajic> Not all, DC. [20:34] * DC was kicked by Ataru (Stay on topic please) [20:34] <@Xwing328> AdmirableAckbar, yes, bots could kinda handle removing them [20:34] <+IFYLOFD> Kill WP:UP [20:34] <@Ataru> Kill WP:UP [20:34] <+DarthDragon> Kill [20:34] <+IFYLOFD> Kill [20:34] <@Enochf|work> Oh, fine. The important ones are already done. Kill it. [20:34] <+AdmirableAckbar> Kill. And o_O [20:34] <@Ozzel> Eh. We do need to let people know how to make their own though. [20:34] <+Fiolli> Kill WP:UP. [20:34] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ozz. [20:34] * DC (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-6da1c5f2e049ddb4) has joined #wookieepedia [20:34] * The4dotelipsis_ (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [20:34] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v The4dotelipsis_ [20:35] <@Ataru> Ozzel: A simple help page topic will suffice on that. [20:35] <+AdmirableAckbar> I mentioned that above and made a proposal. [20:35] <@jSarek> Oz: Grae's tutorial in its place. [20:35] <@Graestan> Oz: There is a Wookieepedia:Userboxes for that. [20:35] <@Ozzel> Ok, good [20:35] <@Ataru> ^Per Grae [20:35] <@jSarek> Err, Acky's. Or whoevers. [20:35] <@Graestan> I will build on it myself. [20:35] <+JorrelFraajic> Although there's a Userbox tutorial which explains the process. [20:35] <+The4dotelipsis_> Back in the New York Groove. [20:35] <+Jedimca0|Busy> Move WP:UP to WP:how to make your own userboxed [20:35] <+The4dotelipsis_> What are we doing now? [20:35] <+The4dotelipsis_> Axing UP? [20:35] <@Graestan> Yes. [20:35] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes, 4dot. [20:35] <+The4dotelipsis_> I wike this idea. [20:35] <+Jedimca0|Busy> or something like that. [20:35] <@Graestan> It's dead anyhow. [20:35] <@Ataru> Next? [20:35] <@Graestan> *WP:UP is Dead!* [20:35] <+JorrelFraajic> Delete, next. [20:35] <+Fiolli> Hi, 4dot_ [20:35] <+JorrelFraajic> Are we going to give it the WP:ID treatment? [20:35] <+Fiolli> :) [20:35] <+The4dotelipsis_> *WP:UP is burning, son!* [20:35] <@Graestan> Preemptive The Clone Wars damage control. T-canon's a'comin', and it ain't gonna be pretty. A lot of old stuff is going to get poopooed upon, and we need to figure out how to deal with it. Some ideas include TCW-specific variations of or  to flag existing material which no longer fits. -- Ozzel 03:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC) [20:35] <@Graestan> Oz? [20:36] <@Ozzel> Hopefully we'll clean it up a little better than ID. [20:36] <@Ozzel> Oh, right. [20:36] <@Ozzel> Well, that was a while back. Now it's here. [20:36] <+JorrelFraajic> Preemptive seems a bit late. [20:36] <@LtNOWIS> Well, there's the series. [20:36] <@Graestan> The TV show is coming. [20:36] <@LtNOWIS> But reactive is fine too. [20:36] <+JorrelFraajic> Anyway, I like new conflicting templates. [20:36] <@Ozzel> We know there's not gonna be any fixing for a good while. [20:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> Eh. [20:36] <@LtNOWIS> Yeah. "New Clone Wars timeline." [20:36] <@Xwing328> I think i'd support something similar to [20:36] * Ataru changes topic to 'Cleaning up TCW mess - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [20:36] <+IFYLOFD> I like the conflicting idea. [20:36] <@Ozzel> And there's things like the Grievous fun to deal with. [20:36] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Xwing. [20:37] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Xwing [20:37] <+AdmirableAckbar> Conflicting templates will be improper if it's in relation to T-canon. [20:37] <@Graestan> Per Xwing also. [20:37] <+JorrelFraajic> Shut up about that, Ozz. [20:37] <+IFYLOFD> Per Xwing [20:37] <+DarthDragon> Per Xwing [20:37] <@Ataru> Per Xwing. [20:37] <@jSarek> Yeah, special template specifically about Clone Wars, since it's going to be widespread. [20:37] <+AdmirableAckbar> Wait, I'm confused. [20:37] <@Ozzel> At the top though, or the specific area? [20:37] <+JorrelFraajic> Top. [20:37] <@LtNOWIS> Depends? [20:37] <+The4dotelipsis_> Both. [20:37] <@Havac> We don't know that T-canon is any higher, honestly. [20:37] <+AdmirableAckbar> What exactly would the template say? When would it be used? [20:37] <@Graestan> Per NOWIS. [20:37] <+Jedimca0|Busy> per jSarek [20:37] <@jSarek> And on that note, I GTG. Good luck all, don't do anything stupid while I'm gone. ;-) [20:37] <@Graestan> Depends. [20:37] <+IFYLOFD> The specific area. [20:37] * Ataru sets mode: +v DC [20:37] * Graestan sets mode: +v StarNinja99 [20:37] <@jSarek> Take care all. LLap. :::Walks quietly out::: [20:37] * @jSarek (n=jSarek@REDACTED) Quit ("Exit, stage left") [20:37] <+The4dotelipsis_> Top template, and then a "Talesstart" style template in the pertinent area. [20:37] <@Ozzel> I mean, with something like Grievous (we gotta say it), it's hard to make a cohesive aarticle at all from that. [20:37] <@LtNOWIS> Top for CW articles like battles, middle for things like Anakin? [20:37] <+Fiolli> Yes, t-canon is higher. [20:38] <@Xwing328> I hate top templates for the most part, so specific [20:38] <+JorrelFraajic> Shut up, Ozz. [20:38] <@Havac> And that's internal reconciliation,priority, not automatic overrule. [20:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> Okay, template(s) sound good. [20:38] <@Ozzel> Per 4dot, probably something like the Tales template. [20:38] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per 4dot [20:38] <+The4dotelipsis_> Well, we've made them smaller. It won't be a big template with pictures and quote. [20:38] <+StarNinja99> oh, thanks Grae [20:38] <+JorrelFraajic> But yeah, it's a point. [20:38] <@Ozzel> To use on the old material. [20:38] <@Havac> Sectional templates, ass-ugly as they are. [20:38] <+JorrelFraajic> Per dot. [20:38] <@Graestan> Templates thar be. [20:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac. [20:38] <+The4dotelipsis_> Ass-ugly to match the state of continuity. [20:38] <@Graestan> We should make both, IMO. [20:38] <@Havac> No, use the templates on the new material. [20:38] <@LtNOWIS> Although, sectional might not work when the whole damn war timeline is messed up [20:38] <@Ataru> I think sectional templates like {[talestart}} would be good [20:38] <+Fiolli> What is the fear, Ozzel? [20:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> But with a bit of style tweaking, I think. [20:38] <@Ozzel> The new material is T, though. [20:39] <@Havac> It's the new material that we don't know how to integrate yet. [20:39] <+Fiolli> What do you foresee conflicting? [20:39] <+JorrelFraajic> Per 4dot, again. [20:39] <+The4dotelipsis_> That is the essential question: Use on the old or the new? [20:39] <@LtNOWIS> Both [20:39] <+DarthDragon> Both [20:39] <@Ozzel> Fiolli: Things like Grievous's backstory. [20:39] <@Havac> T, as I explained, is an internal priority chart when conflicts arise. It isn't an automatic override. [20:39] <+IFYLOFD> Both [20:39] <+JorrelFraajic> Historians go for the older... ;) [20:39] <@Graestan> Fiolli: Anyting you want. [20:39] <@Havac> Leland has explained that canon doesn't work that way. [20:39] <+IFYLOFD> '] [20:39] <+JorrelFraajic> But Both, in terms of SW canon. [20:39] <@LtNOWIS> Old stuf doesn't get any precedence thouh [20:39] <+DC> yes [20:39] <+JorrelFraajic> NOWIS: I'm aware. [20:39] <@Xwing328> Fiolli, and the overall timeline that Chee is re-working [20:39] <@Ataru> Epic meh. I just want it neatly marked somehow. [20:39] <@Ataru> That way we can pretend that continuity still exists. [20:39] <+The4dotelipsis_> I'd say use it on the old stuff. Since the new is clearly going to be what's going to stay. [20:40] <@Havac> But at any rate, we have great gobs of C-canon, and only a little T-canon. [20:40] <+IFYLOFD> Old [20:40] <+JorrelFraajic> I say both top and talesstart templates. [20:40] <+Fiolli> I want a pita, but that doesn't mean a backstory is always going to change. [20:40] <@Havac> We don't know how the new reconciles to the old. [20:40] <+IFYLOFD> I say talesstart [20:40] <@Havac> We do know how the old relates. [20:40] <@Ozzel> I think a top template additionally would be overkill. [20:40] <+IFYLOFD> Per Ozz [20:40] <@Havac> Section off the new until we know how it works. [20:40] <@LtNOWIS> The section template can go at the top of some articles. [20:40] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav. [20:40] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Havac [20:40] <+The4dotelipsis_> I don't. We need to warn people that they're entering troubled waters. [20:40] * JaySun (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-9945e469b161f5e6) has joined #wookieepedia [20:40] <+IFYLOFD> Per Havac [20:40] <+JorrelFraajic> Also per 4dot. [20:41] <@Ozzel> Ugh. It is messy, and I hate that we have to go here. But... we do. [20:41] <+GrandMoffTranner> And per 4dot [20:41] <+DC> Per Havac [20:41] <@LtNOWIS> We can't have a bias against recent stuff. [20:41] <+IFYLOFD> And per 4dot [20:41] <+DC> and 4dor [20:41] <+DC> 4dot** [20:41] <+The4dotelipsis_> Havac does have a point, though...we don't know how it reconciles, so for presentation purposes, we have to use it on the new, I suppose. [20:41] <+The4dotelipsis_> But let's not kid ourselves: the new is what's going to stay. [20:41] <@Graestan> Okay, vote time. Sectional, header, or both? [20:41] <@Ozzel> What about something else? Gray-colored text or something? [20:41] <@Havac> Well, yeah. [20:41] <+JorrelFraajic> Both. [20:41] <+The4dotelipsis_> Both. [20:41] <+IFYLOFD> Sectional [20:41] <@Graestan> Both. [20:41] <+DC> Both. [20:41] <+GrandMoffTranner> Both [20:41] <+StarNeptune> both [20:41] <+JorrelFraajic> For the time being. [20:42] <+AdmirableAckbar> Sectional and header for really major stuff. [20:42] <@Ataru> Both [20:42] <+Jedimca0|Busy> both [20:42] <@Havac> And if we have Leland explicitly say, "This is out and that is in," then reflect that in the article. [20:42] <+Fiolli> How do we know that all of this isn't going to reconcile fine. After all, we don't have things drawn down to the individual day or hour in each article! [20:42] <+AdmirableAckbar> *sectional for minor stuff [20:42] <@Xwing328> Sectional only, no header [20:42] <@Ozzel> Ok, but per 4dot, let's make it a less obnoxious header template. [20:42] <@LtNOWIS> Are we talking two templates, or one that gets used both places? [20:42] <@Havac> But until then, quarantine the new. [20:42] <@LtNOWIS> What does that mean? [20:42] <+DarthDragon> sectional [20:42] <+The4dotelipsis_> Fiolli: You obviously haven't heard about Grievous yet. :P [20:42] <+JorrelFraajic> Both, per Hav. [20:42] <@Ozzel> This will just be for the stuff that we already know does not work. [20:42] <+AdmirableAckbar> Topic. [20:42] <+Fiolli> Grievous aside. [20:42] <@Graestan> Both templates will be created; use will be determined per need, with Hav and other canon wizards ready to offer advice. [20:42] <@Graestan> NEXT [20:42] <+The4dotelipsis_> We decided a while back that all header templates that we can't remove through our own work would be low-key. [20:42] <+The4dotelipsis_> Or I did. :P [20:42] <+Fiolli> Seriously, does anyone think this is going to be a major problem for so many articles? [20:42] <@Graestan> I would also like to suggest a slight change to the main page which I think would help first-time or non-regular visitors to our site. First, I think the addition of a "recently featured" addendum to the FA display would be a nice since our articles will be on a one-day rotation in the future. This is preemptive since I'm not certain we will have a Mofference between now and then. Also,... [20:42] <@Graestan> ...before I see all the bottles of blue milk fly at me: I know we are not Wikipedia and this is not to emulate {that site}. I think this is a good navigational tool since the FAs will be flying by, so to speak. Next, the right column should be tweaked since the new advertisements are bumping it down. Master Aban Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 22:18, 20 July 2008 (UTC) [20:43] <@Ataru> Fiolli? [20:43] <+AdmirableAckbar> Strong support for the FA thing. [20:43] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Acky. [20:43] <@Graestan> Per Acky. [20:43] <+The4dotelipsis_> I like the first idea. T'would be most helpful. [20:43] <+DC> Strong support as well. [20:43] <@Ataru> I'm good with the FA thing. [20:43] * +JorrelFraajic has wanted that for a while now. [20:43] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Acky [20:43] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v JaySun [20:43] <+IFYLOFD> Per Acky [20:43] <+Fiolli> If we are going to go to one-FA-per-week, then why not have a recently featured note below each? [20:43] <@LtNOWIS> We aren't. [20:43] <@Havac> I'm OK with that. [20:43] <+JorrelFraajic> Per day you mean. [20:43] <@LtNOWIS> We're going to 1 a day. [20:43] <@Xwing328> For the FA link [20:43] <+Fiolli> This would allow greater exposure to articles rather than one 24-hour period. [20:44] <@Ozzel> Definitely add "recent" links. [20:44] <@LtNOWIS> Recently featured is nice for if you miss a day. [20:44] * The4dotelipsis was kicked by Graestan (There can be only one.) [20:44] <+JorrelFraajic> Anyway, yes to FA links. [20:44] <@Ozzel> But what's this about the right column? [20:44] <@LtNOWIS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [20:44] <+JorrelFraajic> I think that's a formatting issue. [20:44] * Ataru changes topic to 'Recent FA links- Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [20:44] <+AdmirableAckbar> Main page looks fine for me with adblock, anyway. [20:44] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I support this [20:44] <+JorrelFraajic> As in, it's further down than the left side. [20:44] <+JorrelFraajic> But that's not fixable. [20:44] <@Graestan> Acky: Since it's the Main Page, though, I think it should be tweaked. [20:44] <+Fiolli> Exactly what I feared. [20:44] <+JorrelFraajic> Since FA and QotD lengths fluctuate. [20:44] <@Ataru> That's an ad problem, AFAIK. [20:45] <+JorrelFraajic> Therefore, the two will almost never be equal, no matter what we do to tweak it. [20:45] <@Graestan> It's an ad problem, but we need to keep our less adept readers in mind. [20:45] <@LtNOWIS> All sections vary in length. [20:45] <+Fiolli> Look, I am all for a revamping of the main page; however, I think that the addition of recently added should be done. [20:45] <@Ozzel> Oh, talking about moving FAs up on the page? [20:45] <+AdmirableAckbar> I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an ad-free main page, but I guess that's not going to happen. [20:45] <@Ataru> Fiolli: That's done. [20:45] <@LtNOWIS> main page revamp is off topic [20:45] <@Ataru> Acky: Topic please. [20:45] <+JaySun> Y-wings Win! [20:45] <+AdmirableAckbar> It's relevant. [20:45] * JaySun was kicked by Ataru (Ataru) [20:45] <@Graestan> ... [20:45] * Tommy9281 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-d79b89405ca25c41) has joined #wookieepedia [20:45] * Ozzel sets mode: +v Tommy9281 [20:46] * JaySun (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-3514fbc68d9bbd8f) has joined #wookieepedia [20:46] <@Graestan> So, in favor of Fiolli's first proposal? [20:46] <@Graestan> Aye. [20:46] <+The4dotelipsis_> Aye. [20:46] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [20:46] <+Fiolli> Yes. [20:46] <+GrandMoffTranner> I [20:46] <@Ozzel> Absolutely yes. [20:46] <+DC> Aye. [20:46] <+Jedimca0|Busy> yes [20:46] <+AdmirableAckbar> Aye [20:46] <+Tommy9281> which was? [20:46] <+IFYLOFD> Yes. [20:46] <@Xwing328> Aye [20:46] * JaySun (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-3514fbc68d9bbd8f) Quit (Client Quit) [20:46] <+DarthDragon> Aye [20:46] <@Ozzel> Tommy: "Recently featured" FA links on the Main Page. [20:46] <@Xwing328> Tommy9281, add recently featured FA links [20:47] <@Ataru> Aye, to Fiolli's proposal. [20:47] <+Whopper> lol [20:47] <+Tommy9281> aye. [20:47] <@LtNOWIS> yes [20:47] <+IFYLOFD> yes [20:47] <+Tommy9281> details? [20:47] <+AdmirableAckbar> I think that's that. [20:47] <+AdmirableAckbar> Read the mofference page. [20:47] <@Ataru> Yeah, next. [20:47] <@Ozzel> Tommy: Look at Wikipedia's. [20:48] <@Graestan> Fiolli, do you want to make any specific proposal regarding the righthand column? [20:48] <+Tommy9281> i see. [20:48] <+Fiolli> Graestan: No. [20:48] <+Fiolli> I rescind. [20:48] <@Graestan> Alright, then I will shelve that one. [20:48] <@Ataru> Let's move on, then. [20:48] <@Graestan> NEXT! [20:48] <+JorrelFraajic> Next? [20:48] <@Graestan> I'd like to consider relaxing the "Personality and traits" rule in FA noms so as to allow for exceptions on subjects who don't really have personalities, like Aris-Del Wari, Atha Prime, or Imperial Ace. We would treat it more like the "Powers and abilities" section in that objectors could still insist that an article have one if enough information exists (and on most, it will, so it's not... [20:48] <+Fiolli> N...e...x...t.... [20:48] <@Graestan> ...like people could avoid P&Ts if they just didn't feel like doing them), but it wouldn't be required if the information isn't there. - Lord Hydronium 00:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC) [20:48] * Ataru changes topic to 'Relaxing P&T in the FA rules. - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [20:48] <@Graestan> I can't support this. [20:48] <+AdmirableAckbar> Ugh. [20:48] <+The4dotelipsis_> I think Hydro has a point here, but... [20:48] <+JorrelFraajic> I don't like it. [20:48] <@Ataru> I can't support this. [20:48] <+The4dotelipsis_> I think it would be hard to enforce. [20:48] <@Graestan> Too much room for potential abuse. [20:48] <+Fiolli> No. [20:49] <+GrandMoffTranner> No [20:49] <+DC> I'm in strong disagreement to it. [20:49] <@Ataru> Every character has a personality. [20:49] <+IFYLOFD> No. [20:49] <@Ataru> Even Darth Maul. [20:49] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ataru. [20:49] <+AdmirableAckbar> Silly. [20:49] <@Graestan> It's a loophole the size of a moon. [20:49] <+The4dotelipsis_> With things like Aris though, it's forced. And pointless. [20:49] <+Jedimca0|Busy> Per Graestan [20:49] <+IFYLOFD> Per Grae. [20:49] <+DarthDragon> Nay I Say [20:49] <+DC> We realize that 4dot. [20:49] <+The4dotelipsis_> I don't like it when it becomes arbitrary, but I am afeared of the inevitable abuse. [20:49] <@Ozzel> I say say. There needs to be room for Inq-approved exceptions. [20:49] <@Ozzel> *say yes [20:49] <+AdmirableAckbar> That will never work. [20:49] <+The4dotelipsis_> Inq approved...could work. [20:49] <@Xwing328> Per 4dot [20:49] <+Fiolli> Inq-approved does not mean it has to be written into the bylaws. [20:49] <+IFYLOFD> Only if it's Inq approved. [20:50] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Fiolli. [20:50] <@Ataru> Ugh. Definitely complicates too many things. [20:50] <+DC> I'm still in strong disagreement to this. [20:50] <+Tommy9281> no. [20:50] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Fiolli. [20:50] <@Ataru> Just keep it simple, and mandate P&T [20:50] <+JorrelFraajic> I still say no. [20:50] <+GrandMoffTranner> Still no [20:50] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [20:50] <@Graestan> I say no; any Inq-approved exceptions would have to involve the whole of the Inquisitorius or it'd undermine the body's integrity [20:50] <+The4dotelipsis_> But with Aris, how could I do a legitimate P&T? [20:50] <+Fiolli> Mandate P&T and make them approach the Inq to vote on it if necessary. [20:50] <@Ataru> 4dot: Have you heard of "GA"? [20:50] <+DC> Regardless of who it is, whether they be a baby or Maul, everyone has a P&T [20:50] <+JorrelFraajic> Well, someone did it. [20:50] <+Tommy9281> everything has traits. [20:50] <+AdmirableAckbar> 4dot: what's there is okay. [20:50] <@Graestan> Any bids for an exception would likely involve select users, and I can't stand for that. [20:50] * Chack (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-69191f6d7e3ec4c0) has joined #wookieepedia [20:50] <+The4dotelipsis_> Have you heard of "arbitrary"? That's a perceptions field I've got. [20:50] <@Ataru> Yeah, I can't see an Inqvote woring. [20:50] <@Ozzel> Even 5 whole Inqs? [20:51] * Ataru sets mode: +v Chack [20:51] <@Graestan> Even five. [20:51] <@Ataru> *working [20:51] <@Ozzel> If 5 can approve an article... [20:51] <@Graestan> There are like twenty Inqs now. [20:51] <+The4dotelipsis_> You're telling me an article can't be featured if it doesn't have a few lines on how the character acts, even though that's illustrated in the bio? [20:51] <@Graestan> That's a big exception to make. [20:51] <+The4dotelipsis_> I'm sorry, but that's baloney. [20:51] <@Graestan> Fourdot. [20:51] <@Ataru> 4dot: per Grae, huge exception. [20:51] <+The4dotelipsis_> The abuse is what prevents me from supporting this, not the principle. [20:51] <+Tommy9281> Grae: 19 [20:52] <@Ozzel> If a P&T can be made and someone's trying to get out of it, no Inq is gonna let it slide. [20:52] <+Fiolli> Look, if there is going to be a huge issue on anything it should go to the Inqs. Exceptions do not need to be written into the rules! [20:52] <+JorrelFraajic> Hmm. Per Ozz. [20:52] <+JorrelFraajic> And Fiolli. [20:52] <@Xwing328> Making an exception to this one rule (or allowing an Inq vote to not require the rule) is just opening the gates for more and more exceptions to our current rules [20:52] <@Graestan> Yes, the chances for abuse, even with Inq exceptions, would be too great, IMO. [20:52] <+DC> Per Fiolli [20:52] <@Ataru> I'm still with Grae here. [20:52] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [20:52] <@Ataru> This is not an exception we need. [20:52] * +DarthDragon (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-681eb83182c020ed) Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") [20:52] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Grae. [20:52] <+DC> and Grae [20:52] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae [20:52] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Xwing. No to encoded exception. [20:52] <@Graestan> Strongly per Xwing. [20:52] <+The4dotelipsis_> It is. Because it's not applicable to every article. [20:52] * DarthDragon (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-ec379d26c9f9f3f7) has joined #wookieepedia [20:52] <+Tommy9281> I dont think this is a good idea. [20:52] <@Ozzel> Don't make it an official exception then. [20:52] <+AdmirableAckbar> It's worked till now, with all sorts of minor characters having P&Ts. [20:52] <+Fiolli> I say: put it up for FAN and let the Inqs discuss it on that page if there is a need. [20:52] <@Ozzel> Let the Inq veto it when needed. [20:53] <+The4dotelipsis_> Atha Prime, for all intents and purposes, doesn't need one. [20:53] <+JorrelFraajic> I can see it used as an unofficial, but don't advertise it. [20:53] <+StarNeptune> Isn't P& T just pretty much recapping what has already been stated elsewhere in the article anyway? [20:53] <+DC> And even so, this is an Inq thing anyway that they should discuss in their own meetings [20:53] <+AdmirableAckbar> Star: no. [20:53] <@Ataru> This is an internal Inq matter. [20:53] <+AdmirableAckbar> Not a good P&T, anyway. [20:53] <+JorrelFraajic> No, Star. [20:53] <@Graestan> Per Acky. [20:53] <@Graestan> And I read a lot of articles. [20:53] <+The4dotelipsis_> It's not an internal Inq matter. It's an FA matter. [20:53] <+Fiolli> Per Acky. [20:53] <+The4dotelipsis_> And no, it's not a recap, but sometimes that's all it can be. [20:53] <+AdmirableAckbar> So? [20:53] <+JorrelFraajic> It's still substance. [20:53] <+Fiolli> So? Then include it again! [20:54] <@Ataru> Then, so be it. But let's not allow it slip by. [20:54] <+The4dotelipsis_> That's P/T for P/T's sake. [20:54] <@Ataru> It's consistency, darnit. [20:54] <@Ozzel> If you're having to force it, is it really worth having merely to meet a requirement? [20:54] <+JorrelFraajic> It's still a P&T. [20:54] <+The4dotelipsis_> Redundant. Pointless. [20:54] <+Fiolli> No. Not so. [20:54] <@Ataru> Ozzel: Some things need forced. [20:54] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [20:54] <@Ozzel> I'm not sure this does though. [20:54] <+JorrelFraajic> And if someone just wants to see if someone has a personality without reading the entire article? [20:54] <+DC> per Ataru, strong [20:54] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Jorrel. [20:54] <@Graestan> So, we should probably vote on this. A CT would be optimal for future similar proposals, though, IMO. [20:54] <@Graestan> I'd say no. [20:54] <+AdmirableAckbar> No CT, please. [20:54] <+Tommy9281> Nope. [20:54] <+Fiolli> Stay off the CT. [20:54] <+GrandMoffTranner> No [20:54] <@Ataru> No CT. [20:55] <+Fiolli> I vote... no. [20:55] <@Ataru> And No. [20:55] <+DC> Keep it out of this [20:55] <+DC> No. [20:55] <+The4dotelipsis_> What if someone wants to see how Mace Windu dispatches a bunch of hoons without reading the whole article? Should we make a "Hoon Dispatchment" subsection? [20:55] <+Chack> Meh, I've missed much of this, but I'm leaning towards requiring P&T. [20:55] <@Ataru> This is a vote, 4dot. [20:55] <+JorrelFraajic> No, because that's relevant to a character's *history* [20:55] * Tommy9281 is now known as Tommy_MotoQ [20:55] * DarthDragon (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-ec379d26c9f9f3f7) Quit (Client Quit) [20:55] <+AdmirableAckbar> I vote to mandate P&T for all character articles. [20:55] <+The4dotelipsis_> This isn't the right atmosphere to discuss this, anywhoo. [20:55] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Acky, even if it's a rehash. [20:55] * DarthDragon (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-eb3988f208ebb996) has joined #wookieepedia [20:55] <+DC> Per Acky [20:55] <@Ozzel> I say there needs to be wiggle room for what's best for the article. [20:55] <+The4dotelipsis_> Since it requires organized discussion. [20:56] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Acky [20:56] <+AdmirableAckbar> If it really doesn't have a personality, which I found rather unlikely, it shouldn't be an FA. [20:56] <+Chack> Per Acky [20:56] <+JorrelFraajic> I would like a CT. [20:56] <+AdmirableAckbar> Simple. [20:56] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Per Ackbar. [20:56] <+The4dotelipsis_> That's ridiculous. [20:56] <@Ozzel> Anything can be an FA. [20:56] * Graestan sets mode: +v DarthDragon [20:56] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [20:56] <+JorrelFraajic> Easier to organize, less clutter or rushed. Move to CT. [20:56] * The4dotelipsis_ was kicked by Ataru (Ataru) [20:56] * The4dotelipsis_ (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [20:56] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v The4dotelipsis_ [20:56] <+AdmirableAckbar> Characters, I mean. [20:56] <+AdmirableAckbar> CT...please no. [20:56] <+The4dotelipsis_> We can't feature a character because they have no personality? Really? [20:56] <+Fiolli> No. [20:56] <@Graestan> Alright, this certainly didn't pass, at least here. [20:56] <@Graestan> NEXT! [20:56] * Ataru sets mode: -v The4dotelipsis_ [20:56] <@Graestan> We've got lots of TV episodes in our future. Time to go to collapsible appearances (perhaps in place of scrollboxes)? See Example 1 & Example 2. -- Ozzel 01:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC) [20:56] <@Ataru> He was warned. [20:56] <@Graestan> Good one, Oz. [20:56] * Graestan sets mode: +v The4dotelipsis_ [20:56] <+JorrelFraajic> I say yes to next point. [20:57] <@Graestan> New topic, everyone. [20:57] <+Fiolli> I like this idea. [20:57] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yes, but only for like 10+ appearances. [20:57] <+JorrelFraajic> With Scrollboxes, too. [20:57] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Acky [20:57] <@Ozzel> This could also be used for comments. [20:57] <+JorrelFraajic> Since it'll still be a beast. [20:57] * Ataru changes topic to 'Collapsible appearances? - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [20:57] <+AdmirableAckbar> Wait. [20:57] <+Fiolli> Per Acky, but I'd say 5. [20:57] <+IFYLOFD> Per Acky. [20:57] <+AdmirableAckbar> Scrollboxes? [20:57] <@Ozzel> The only downside I see is when the timeline gets screwy. [20:57] <@Ataru> I hate scrollboxes. :-| [20:57] <+The4dotelipsis_> Eh. I don't like this. [20:57] <+DarthDragon> Per Ataru [20:57] <+IFYLOFD> 10 is a good number for that sort of thing. [20:57] <@Ataru> Anyway, the collapsible stuff could work, but not w/ scrollboxes added IMO. [20:57] <+The4dotelipsis_> Scrollboxes...I don't see the problem. [20:57] <@LtNOWIS> I'm worried about what we'll do for actor articles. [20:57] * SoresuMakashi (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [20:57] <@Ozzel> Example: http://memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/Guinan#Appearances [20:57] <@Ataru> One or the other, if you ask me. [20:58] <@Graestan> Ten isn't a lot, IMO. [20:58] <+DC> meh. I say nay to this. [20:58] <+Tommy_MotoQ> I like scroll boxes when necessary. [20:58] <@Graestan> Scrollboxes ain't bad. [20:58] <+JorrelFraajic> Per 4dot. [20:58] <@Ataru> I'm with Grae. More like 50 appearances. [20:58] <@Ozzel> I'm say this could be prefereable in place of scrollboxes. [20:58] <@Ataru> That's a lot. [20:58] <@Xwing328> I hate scrollboxes...but i'm not sure we're ready for collapsing stuff [20:58] <@Darth_Culator> I've been happy with scroll boxes. [20:58] <@Havac> I don't mind scrollboxes. [20:58] <+Chack> I'd prefer scrollboxes [20:58] <@Havac> I like them better than the idea of collapsing appearances. [20:58] <+JorrelFraajic> I still prefer both. [20:58] <@Ozzel> This doesn't /have/ to be in place of them though. [20:58] <+IFYLOFD> I guess scrollboxes. [20:58] <@Havac> I'd rather scroll than click-click-click to see everything. [20:58] <@LtNOWIS> I'm ok with either [20:58] <+GrandMoffTranner> Yeah, scrollboxes are good [20:59] <+JorrelFraajic> Hold it: Who thinks that this means collapse *all* appearances? [20:59] <@Ozzel> Ok, forget scrollboxes for a sec. [20:59] <@LtNOWIS> It doesn't. [20:59] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Per Havac [20:59] <+DC> im not ok with this [20:59] <@LtNOWIS> It's just for TV episodes. [20:59] <@Ozzel> No, this is just collapsble for things like episodes from a show. [20:59] <+JorrelFraajic> I want to see who does, because it seems like there's a lot. [20:59] <@Havac> I don't even want to collapse TV appearances. [20:59] * +JorrelFraajic knows its for TV episodes. [20:59] <@Graestan> Just for episodes, I suppose I'd not take exception to. [20:59] <@Havac> Just list all appearances. [20:59] <@Ozzel> It could also be issues from a comic though. [20:59] <@Havac> If it's long, it's long. [20:59] <@Ataru> Nah, just list 'em all. [20:59] <+DC> per Havac, strongly [20:59] <@Xwing328> if you JUST put it for TV episodes, soon people will be collapsing entire comic arcs and movie trilogies too [20:59] <@Ozzel> We list them all anyway. [20:59] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Havac [20:59] <@Ataru> I'm fine with that. [20:59] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yeah, that's probably easiest. Per Havac. [21:00] <@Havac> "Appears in this series, click to see more" is far too general. [21:00] <+The4dotelipsis_> Eh. List it all. [21:00] <@Ataru> Per Havac. [21:00] <+Jedimca0|Busy> I need some sleep [21:00] <@Ozzel> TCW could end up with 100 episodes. I think this could be good for that. [21:00] <@Graestan> Oz is going somewhere. It would also give us more room to demand that people list appearances by comic issue. [21:00] <+Jedimca0|Busy> bye everyone [21:00] <@Havac> Appearances +Star Wars [21:00] <+IFYLOFD> Do what we did with Star Wars [21:00] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ozz. [21:00] <+The4dotelipsis_> Not bloody likely. [21:00] <+Fiolli> Bye, Jedimca0. [21:00] <@Havac> Click to see more details. [21:00] <+IFYLOFD> Star Wars Droids, I mean. [21:00] <@LtNOWIS> Agree with Ozzel. [21:00] <@Ozzel> Right, per Grae; This could satisfy people on both sides of the comic issue/arc thing. [21:00] <+Chack> Gotta go [21:00] <+Fiolli> I like this idea a lot. [21:00] <+The4dotelipsis_> If TCW becomes a smash hit, I'd reconsider it. :P [21:00] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Nite Jedi [21:00] <+Fiolli> It would also be good for FFs. [21:00] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ozz, again. [21:00] * +Jedimca0|Busy (n=chatzill@REDACTED) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.16/2008070205]") [21:00] <+DC> Per, Ozzel [21:01] <@Havac> Look, when we have 100 episodes, worry about it then. [21:01] <@Havac> Until then, I don't like it. [21:01] <@Ataru> Per Havac. [21:01] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yeah. [21:01] <@Ozzel> Take Ewoks, then, where we have 35 episodes. [21:01] <+DC> yes. [21:01] <@Ataru> This is a non-issue until it actually comes up. [21:01] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Ditto. [21:01] <+Fiolli> I think it has come up! [21:01] <+JorrelFraajic> Even 35 episodes is a lot. [21:01] <+AdmirableAckbar> The Ewoks system we have works for me. [21:01] <+Fiolli> Ewoks, Droids, etc. [21:01] <@Ozzel> No, because we can use it right now. [21:01] <+DC> we dont even know how long this show is going to run [21:01] <@Graestan> Ozzel makes another good point. [21:01] <+IFYLOFD> Ewoks and Droids, [21:01] <+DC> so worry about it later [21:01] <@Ataru> That sounds like a lot of work for no really great reason, though. [21:01] <+IFYLOFD> Per Acky. [21:01] <@Ataru> A *lot* of reformatting. [21:01] <@Havac> It won't even work anyway if there's anything in-between those appearances. [21:02] <@Havac> We list chronologically, not by series. [21:02] <@Ozzel> Right, and that is the only downside I see. [21:02] <+JorrelFraajic> In the Source field, I thought. [21:02] <@Ataru> Hmm. Good point. [21:02] <@Havac> So I think that sinks it right there. [21:02] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yeah. This is a decent idea, but I can't see it working. With refinement, it could make a CT, I guess. [21:02] <@Xwing328> right, and SW people like to stick stuff in the middle of other stories [21:02] <@Ozzel> Here we go with the send it to CT... :-p [21:02] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Per Havac again. [21:02] <@LtNOWIS> Good point, Hav. [21:02] <@Ozzel> But I'd be willing to write it up. [21:02] <@Havac> Don't bother with a CT right now. [21:02] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Hav [21:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Hav's got a point. [21:02] <@Havac> There's just no system to make it work. [21:02] <@Ataru> I'm just in favor of killing this idea now. [21:02] <@Graestan> We need to vote first. [21:03] <@Ozzel> It's not dependent on TCW though. [21:03] <+JorrelFraajic> No for now, if it becomes an issue, CT. [21:03] <@Havac> Unless you list the series twice. [21:03] <+Fiolli> I say CT. [21:03] <+AdmirableAckbar> I meant CT in a few months or so. [21:03] <+DC> wait until its a probelm [21:03] <@Graestan> In favor of having the option? [21:03] <+The4dotelipsis_> Actually, with regards to Hav's point, perhaps we should reformat TV appearances... [21:03] <@Graestan> Aye. [21:03] <+The4dotelipsis_> CT. [21:03] * +Nebulax makes train noises [21:03] <@Havac> Any why are we listing a series anyway? [21:03] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Acky. [21:03] <@Ozzel> I was just saying, TCW would be another good reason. [21:03] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v SoresuMakashi [21:03] <@Xwing328> now if somebody wanted to get really creative and do two separate appearance sections, one by story and one by timeline, i could see it working for the former [21:03] <+Fiolli> As soon as one season is done we have 20 episodes! [21:03] <+Fiolli> Keep this in mind. [21:03] <@Havac> We don't list *X-wing series **Rogue Squadron ** Wedge's Gamble, etc, etc. [21:03] <@LtNOWIS> Havac is right. [21:03] <+DC> Neither LOTF... [21:03] <+IFYLOFD> I really like Acky's idea. [21:03] <@Havac> Why do it just for TV? [21:03] <+AdmirableAckbar> We used to do that for the Tales from books, but Borsk axed them too. [21:03] <+JorrelFraajic> TV has more. LOTS more. [21:03] <@Graestan> Eesh, Hav's right on that. [21:04] <@Ataru> I'm still with Havac on this. [21:04] <+Fiolli> I like the idea of more specific sources such as TV episodes. [21:04] <@Ataru> ;-) [21:04] <+Fiolli> This is a benefit to our encyclopaedic citations. [21:04] <+JorrelFraajic> Series of 9 books =/= 20 episode season. [21:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> I don't think this is going to work, now anyway, so can we move on? [21:04] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Lotsa work. [21:04] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yeah, I'm with Havac here. TV episodes are the only inconsistent things in appearance lists... [21:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> Jorrel: what about a series of 90 comic issues which all feature humans? [21:04] <@Ozzel> It's still done for other things though. [21:05] <+JorrelFraajic> Poont. [21:05] <@Ozzel> I like the idea of using it for comic issues. [21:05] <@Graestan> I don't think this will pass now. I think a refined CT would be very helpful so everyone can list and read all the pros/cons and options. [21:05] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [21:05] <@Havac> When someone can make a proposal that will deal with the fifty problems here, then bring it up then. Until there is a workable proposal, it's a complete waste of time to talk about it. [21:05] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Grae. [21:05] <@Ataru> Per Grae. Let's move on. [21:05] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Who's gonna check all this for chronological accuracy & shit like that? [21:05] <+IFYLOFD> Per Grae. [21:05] <+Fiolli> Per Grae. [21:05] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae [21:05] <+Fiolli> Ozzel: Let me know before you CT it. [21:05] <+AdmirableAckbar> Next topic. [21:05] <@Ozzel> Tommy: It's no different than now. [21:05] <@Ataru> NEXT! [21:05] <+DC> per Havac [21:05] <+JorrelFraajic> Tommy: I'm assuming us, the editors. [21:05] <@Ozzel> Fiolli: Will do. [21:05] <@Graestan> Thoughts on publicizing Wookieepedia:Interviews. Do we want to wait until we have more success? Should we go ahead and interview a couple of "safe" people just to get some notice around the internet? What's our next step with this? Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 19:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC) [21:05] <+JorrelFraajic> Me too, Ozz. ;) [21:05] <+Fiolli> I have some thoughts we might want in there. [21:05] * Ataru changes topic to 'Promoting our new Wookieepedia interviews - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:05] <@Graestan> I'd say wait. [21:05] <@Ozzel> Ok. [21:05] * +Chack (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-69191f6d7e3ec4c0) Quit ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") [21:06] <+The4dotelipsis_> Why don't we wait until they actually happen? [21:06] <@Ataru> Mostly, I just want to find some places to link this to. [21:06] <+IFYLOFD> Per Grae. [21:06] <+JorrelFraajic> I say hold off until we see what's going on with them. [21:06] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yeah. [21:06] <@Graestan> I don't want our interviews drawing trolls in right away. [21:06] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [21:06] <@Graestan> These interviews are for our articles ATM [21:06] <@Ozzel> BTW, I'm not sure I like the link on the main page. [21:06] <@Ataru> I know Greyman's got some, and I'm still waiting to hear from Allston. [21:06] <+SoresuMakashi> per grae [21:06] <+DC> Wait till it works [21:06] <@Graestan> Not for publicity [21:06] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae [21:06] <+JorrelFraajic> No need to unnecessarily create a bugzapper. [21:06] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Grae and 4dot. [21:06] <@Ataru> Fair enough, I suppose. I [21:06] * NaruHina (i=REDACTED@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-435e9d2ba081d5bd) has joined #wookieepedia [21:06] <@Ozzel> I think we should keep it more internal for the time being. [21:06] <@Havac> No need to report until we have something to report. [21:06] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Per Grae & Ozzel. [21:06] <+JorrelFraajic> Especially since those who need to know probably do already. [21:06] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v NaruHina [21:06] <@Ataru> I was thinking more long-term, but that reasoning makes sense. [21:07] <@LtNOWIS> We're not really a site that "creates" news. [21:07] <@Graestan> Later on, sure, but not yet. [21:07] <@LtNOWIS> OR, and all that [21:07] <@Ataru> No sense in counting chickens before eggs. [21:07] <@Graestan> We can glean a lot even from the two interviews up there. [21:07] <+DC> We shouldnt be anyway.. [21:07] <@Havac> Yeah, honestly, I think it's not really an emphasis we need to have. [21:07] <+IFYLOFD> Per Grae [21:07] <@Xwing328> bah, I should have asked Filoni for an interview when i talked to him last week [21:07] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav. [21:07] <@Havac> But that's not hte current topic. [21:07] <+SoresuMakashi> The interviews are still a pretty small project at the moment [21:07] <+AdmirableAckbar> Next topic? [21:07] <+Fiolli> Next. [21:07] <+JorrelFraajic> No promotion, until success. [21:07] <@Ataru> Yeah, next. [21:07] <+DC> NEXT [21:07] <+JorrelFraajic> Next. [21:07] <+IFYLOFD> NEXT! [21:07] <+DarthDragon> Next [21:07] <+NaruHina> next [21:07] <+SoresuMakashi> hurry up [21:08] <+Fiolli> Let's keep it moving, Grae. [21:08] <+Fiolli> ;) [21:08] <@Ozzel> Patience. [21:08] <@Graestan> This is a brainstorming one: I'll pick from the ideas: [21:08] <+SoresuMakashi> type faster [21:08] <@LtNOWIS> Not sure what the rush is... [21:08] <@Graestan> # I'd like to toss around the idea of another random contest vote like Coolest Thing Ever or Lamest Thing Ever. I imagine having this sort of thing more than once a year (Mister/Miss) would be beneficial to our growth as a site. Graestan(Talk) 15:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC) [21:08] * Ataru changes topic to 'More random contests. - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:08] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yes, this is good for fostering more communityness. [21:08] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Again! [21:08] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [21:08] <@Graestan> Yes. [21:08] <@LtNOWIS> We need something better than "coolest thing ever" [21:08] <+JorrelFraajic> Not the same kind, but yes. [21:08] <+GrandMoffTranner> Yes [21:08] <@Ozzel> Maybe. [21:08] <+AdmirableAckbar> I never really liked those contests, so I'll vote neutral. [21:08] <+The4dotelipsis_> I suggest "Most badass alien" and "Most awesomesest planet" [21:08] <@Graestan> I never got to vote on those two. [21:08] <+SoresuMakashi> Yay! [21:08] <+NaruHina> sure [21:08] <+IFYLOFD> I absolutly love that idea. [21:08] <@Graestan> Per Fourdot. [21:08] <+JorrelFraajic> Per 4dot. [21:08] <@Graestan> Very silly ones. [21:08] <+Fiolli> My current vote is: o_O [21:08] <+The4dotelipsis_> And perhaps "Sexiest executive." [21:08] <+Fiolli> I can be convinced. [21:08] <@Ozzel> I like coolest a lot more than I like lamest, BTW. [21:08] <@Graestan> We get lots of users. [21:08] <@LtNOWIS> "thing" is too vague. [21:08] <+DC> I dont know yet... [21:08] <+IFYLOFD> May I suggest, coolest bounty hunter? [21:08] <+DarthDragon> Sure, why not [21:08] <@Ozzel> I like keeping it positive. [21:08] <+AdmirableAckbar> But are these productive users? [21:09] <@Graestan> "MOST PAAARFUL JEDI" [21:09] <@Xwing328> How about a collect TCW thing with the new series coming out [21:09] <@Ataru> I dunno. . . this smacks of something Halopedia or other MyWikiSpaces would do. [21:09] <@LtNOWIS> Miss and Mr. Star Wars is a part of our heritage now. [21:09] <@Xwing328> *coolest [21:09] <+The4dotelipsis_> Productive users get into it. [21:09] <@Ataru> I'm incredibly skeptical on that. [21:09] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Ataru. [21:09] <+NaruHina> Ugliest dictator? [21:09] <+Tommy_MotoQ> I think it is silly also. [21:09] <+The4dotelipsis_> We need a little more community activity. [21:09] <@Graestan> Acky: Who knows? At least they're not usually trolls. [21:09] <+Fiolli> Per Ataru. [21:09] <+IFYLOFD> Fattest Warlord. [21:09] <+The4dotelipsis_> At the moment, we're like an abbey. [21:09] <+DC> I dont like the idea of drawing in users by contests [21:09] <@Havac> The contests are stupid. [21:09] <@Ataru> I'm not opposed fully, just deeply skeptical. [21:09] <@Graestan> Our community can use the friendly "who can think of something cooler" contest. [21:09] <@Havac> If people only come here to vote on contests, we don't want them. [21:09] <+Fiolli> Per Ataru. [21:09] <+AdmirableAckbar> If people want community involvement, why not have contests based on editing or something? [21:09] <@Ozzel> If we do it, which I'm still iffy about, I'd like to see it be something different than waht we did for the 30th. [21:09] <+DarthDragon> I think some sort of contests, not exactly sure what... [21:09] <+StarNeptune> per Havac [21:09] <+IFYLOFD> It fosters communityness. [21:09] <+DC> It just draws in users who will just vote for stuff [21:10] <+DC> like QOTD [21:10] <@Graestan> This one would be more for us than for newbies, I guess. [21:10] <+AdmirableAckbar> Like, "FA challenge" or some such. [21:10] <@Graestan> We could backoff on advertising. [21:10] <+The4dotelipsis_> Perhaps an FA contest like I had with the WC. But better thought out. [21:10] <@Ataru> LOL @ Acky. :-P [21:10] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [21:10] * +Fiolli smacks Graestan. [21:10] <@Graestan> -_- [21:10] <@LtNOWIS> yeah, we're fine as we are. [21:10] <@Havac> We don't need "community". [21:10] * @Graestan will pull this Moffship over! [21:10] <@LtNOWIS> Interested people come in anyways. [21:10] <+Tommy_MotoQ> It becomes then like a blog. [21:10] <+Fiolli> I disagree, Havac, but I am skeptical of the current proposal. [21:10] <@Havac> People should be here to write, not to socialize. [21:10] <@Ataru> Meh. Community isn't necessarily bad. I just don't want this becoming a permanent fixture. [21:11] <+DC> If people are actually interested in editing a Star Wars Wiki, theyll look for one [21:11] <@LtNOWIS> If we were smart, we'd find out how our best users got here. [21:11] <@Havac> Socializing is a side benefit. It should not be a focus. [21:11] <@Ataru> Havac: Sounds like someone needs a hug. :-P [21:11] <+Fiolli> XD [21:11] <@Graestan> Does anyone know how many users become active and productive because they /make friends/ on the site? [21:11] <+The4dotelipsis_> Who said focus? [21:11] <@Graestan> I did. [21:11] <+JorrelFraajic> I did. [21:11] <+Fiolli> Me too. [21:11] <+DC> but advertising users here is asking for trouble [21:11] <@Ozzel> Nowis: My first edit was for Miss SW. [21:11] <+NaruHina> It would probably be best as a once a year deal [21:11] <@Ozzel> So. [21:11] <+AdmirableAckbar> Community isn't bad, but it's not essential. Someone community-ish which involves writing would work well, imo. [21:11] <@Graestan> There you go. Community stuff ain't so bad. [21:11] <@Havac> OK, it shouldn't be catered to. [21:11] <+Tommy_MotoQ> I agree with Havac & Graestan. [21:11] <+Fiolli> Per Acky. [21:11] <@Ataru> If the community stuff could be mixed with "seriousness", that would be good. [21:11] <+JorrelFraajic> Writing? Then it just turns into a competition between users. [21:11] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Purpose & circumstance. [21:12] <@Havac> We need to focus on upping the writing before we start upping the community. [21:12] <@Ataru> If it had a proactive ends to its means. [21:12] <+JorrelFraajic> Like "Oooo, I have 5,000 edits! OOOOOO" [21:12] <+AdmirableAckbar> Jorrel: not necessarily. [21:12] <+Fiolli> If we are going to do these things, tie in some serious things as well so that we can be productive at the same time. [21:12] <@Ozzel> I guess I might be for something like this, just something a little different that before. [21:12] <+AdmirableAckbar> I said writing, not editing. [21:12] <+DC> Competition is healthy [21:12] <+The4dotelipsis_> "Article of your candidate for this poll must at least be a GA. So let it be written, so let it be done." [21:12] <+JorrelFraajic> And? [21:12] <@Ataru> 4dot: That's not bad. And Mount Sorrow can enter. :-P [21:12] <+JorrelFraajic> Let's put you and me together, and base FAs to our name. [21:12] <@LtNOWIS> hmm. [21:12] <+JorrelFraajic> We know you win, so what's the point? [21:12] <+AdmirableAckbar> Not like that. [21:12] <+AdmirableAckbar> It's not a "who's better" [21:13] <+JorrelFraajic> What is it, then? [21:13] <@Graestan> So, I see no real harm in a few users making contest pages. [21:13] <@Ataru> No, no. Like a coolest "whatever" contest but all contestants have to be GA. [21:13] <+IFYLOFD> A healthy competition. [21:13] <@Ataru> Right, 4dot [21:13] <+AdmirableAckbar> But things like 4dot's WC thing, etc. [21:13] <+AdmirableAckbar> Or something. I don't have any really specific ideas, tbh. [21:13] <+JorrelFraajic> Like that Blog idea? [21:13] <+The4dotelipsis_> The problem with my WC idea is that no one really wanted to host it anyway. :P [21:13] <@Ozzel> I also like this idea of contests involving beefing up articles. [21:13] <+SoresuMakashi> could work, but what about prizes for winning? [21:13] <@LtNOWIS> We don't want to get too creative here. [21:13] <+AdmirableAckbar> Hmmm. [21:13] <+Tommy_MotoQ> I actiely look for users to help. Both to better the site by working somewhat on their articles (if I have knowedge), and to show noobs that we are cool too. [21:13] <@Xwing328> no design competitions like "new logo" or "new banner images" please [21:14] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Xwing. [21:14] <@Ataru> No image contests. Please. [21:14] <+NaruHina> Maybe we let them have an infobox [21:14] <@Graestan> Also per Xwing. [21:14] <+AdmirableAckbar> If people are only GAing things for coolest thing ever, that might detract from the quality. [21:14] <+SoresuMakashi> special userboxes? [21:14] <+GrandMoffTranner> I'd have to see what sort of contests would be held before I can decide [21:14] <@Ataru> AdmirableAckbar: Not if our GAN patrollers are vigilant. [21:14] <+The4dotelipsis_> How about this: Entrants in a contest must have been a stub when the contest opened, but must be expanded for entry. [21:14] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ataru. [21:14] <@LtNOWIS> Stubness is subjective. [21:14] <+IFYLOFD> Per 4dot. [21:14] <@Ozzel> I was going to say per Ataru, but GA has its shortcomings. But that's another topic. [21:14] <@Ataru> You can't just GA crap anymore. That doesn't work. [21:14] <+JorrelFraajic> What about total rewrites? [21:14] <+AdmirableAckbar> We have GAN patrollers? o_O [21:14] <+NaruHina> Yeah like for Wokkieepedian of the mont but different [21:14] <+IFYLOFD> I like that idea. [21:15] <+AdmirableAckbar> I think a senate hall-type page for suggestions would be prudent. [21:15] <+JorrelFraajic> How long ago did the article have to be a stub? [21:15] <+Fiolli> The more I read, the more I don't like this. [21:15] <@Graestan> So, this spirit of friendly competition makes me proud of everyone. [21:15] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Fiolli, on the article editing front. [21:15] <@Ataru> I'm still kinda skeptical, but it might work. If it has proactive means, I'll probably be for it. [21:15] <@Graestan> Per Acky. [21:15] <+Fiolli> I mean, Jorrel, in general. [21:15] <+The4dotelipsis_> Eh...why...it could have been just created recently! Yeah! [21:15] <+JorrelFraajic> Well, that's why I clarified. [21:15] <@Graestan> And I'll make an SH thread about other contests. [21:15] <+AdmirableAckbar> Can we move on? [21:15] <+The4dotelipsis_> Actually "Coolest redlink" contest. [21:15] <+Fiolli> I like the idea of building community, but I don't like what's being bantered about. (Bantha-ed about?) [21:15] <+The4dotelipsis_> That would be good. [21:15] <+JorrelFraajic> What's recently? [21:15] <@Havac> Honestly, I don't even think we need WOTM. [21:15] <+JorrelFraajic> How long ago was the redlink posted? [21:16] <+The4dotelipsis_> Last few days...? [21:16] <@LtNOWIS> We have redlinks? [21:16] <@Ataru> Havac: Stay on-topic. [21:16] <@Havac> Contests are kind of sketchy. [21:16] <+DC> Havac: what? [21:16] <+JorrelFraajic> What's last few days? [21:16] <+DC> why>? [21:16] <+AdmirableAckbar> Anyway, can we please move on? [21:16] <+Fiolli> Bah. [21:16] <@Graestan> NEXT [21:16] <@Graestan> Family fields in the infoboxes: It can work, damnit. I will hopefully be able to provide an example in the meeting, to show that it really won't get messy, even if all the fields are full(ish). Thefourdotelipsis 23:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC) [21:16] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Topic [21:16] <+The4dotelipsis_> Oh, right. [21:16] <@Ozzel> Yes. [21:16] <@Havac> We don't need users facing off on things, just like I don't think we need users voting on crap. [21:16] <@Graestan> Fourdot, care to elaborate? [21:16] <@Havac> Wait, next topic. [21:16] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yes. [21:16] <+NaruHina> next [21:16] <+JorrelFraajic> I said yes the first time, I say yes again. [21:16] * Ataru changes topic to 'Family fields in infoboxes - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:16] <+AdmirableAckbar> I don't really see the necessity. [21:16] <@Havac> Absolute no. [21:16] <+The4dotelipsis_> Now, keep in mind that this example is the most extreme I could think of, and I even had to make up a few fields. [21:16] <@Graestan> Do we have an example? [21:16] <@Ataru> Let the Aussie speak. [21:16] <+The4dotelipsis_> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Thefourdotelipsis/Workbench [21:16] <+JorrelFraajic> Immediate family only. [21:17] <+The4dotelipsis_> That's about as big as it'll ever get. [21:17] <+NaruHina> No,no,no [21:17] <+AdmirableAckbar> My main reason for not liking it is because it makes the infobox longer and thus more non-intro text in line with it, which is very bad. [21:17] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Jorrel [21:17] <+The4dotelipsis_> In 75% of cases, it'll be much smaller. [21:17] <@LtNOWIS> Wiki has nuclear family in their infoboxes [21:17] <+NaruHina> we have family articles they're so conoluted [21:17] <@LtNOWIS> And it works fine [21:17] <+IFYLOFD> I don't like this idea. [21:17] <+AdmirableAckbar> If it can be somehow collapsed or something, I would tentatively support. [21:17] <@Ataru> I have a bad feeling about this. . [21:17] <@Darth_Culator> I like it. [21:17] <@LtNOWIS> I kinda like it actually. [21:17] <+The4dotelipsis_> You can hide the infobox if you want. [21:17] <@Graestan> The more I look at this, the less I actually like the Master and Apprentice fields. [21:17] <+SoresuMakashi> But wook isn't just for compiling info about SW, it's also about sharing that info with the world [21:17] <+JorrelFraajic> I like, even without collapsing. [21:17] <+NaruHina> Luke's would span a large portion of the page [21:17] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Per Jorrel. [21:18] <+The4dotelipsis_> Would it? [21:18] <+JorrelFraajic> Why, Naru? [21:18] <@LtNOWIS> Luke's page is giant. [21:18] <+SoresuMakashi> I think..... [21:18] <+NaruHina> probably [21:18] <@Ataru> NaruHina: That's only b/c Luke's article sucks, but not really. I digress. [21:18] <@LtNOWIS> And Luke only has 1 kid. [21:18] <+Fiolli> Shouldn't it be under Bio rather than chrono? [21:18] <+The4dotelipsis_> Luke has 2 parents, 1 spouse, 1 sibling, and 1 kid. [21:18] <+JorrelFraajic> There's mother, father, sister, wife, son. [21:18] <+NaruHina> no,not the whole page [21:18] <+AdmirableAckbar> I think it's okay but only for articles like Syal or Soontir. [21:18] <+AdmirableAckbar> I don't want to see a single brother in there. [21:18] <+JorrelFraajic> Leia would be even smaller. [21:18] <@Ozzel> Why? [21:18] <+NaruHina> I meant proportionally [21:18] <+AdmirableAckbar> And "spouse" is really iffy. [21:18] <@Havac> Honestly, I don't like it. [21:18] <+JorrelFraajic> Well, no, bigger. Whoops. [21:18] <@Havac> It just seems. . . extraneous. [21:18] <@LtNOWIS> Spouse is not iffy.. [21:18] <+The4dotelipsis_> I think it's far more useful than say, your master/apprentice fields. [21:18] <@Xwing328> I kinda like the family fields [21:18] <@Xwing328> *immediate* family fields that is :P [21:18] <@Ataru> Ozzel: We get into half-brothers and speculation then. [21:18] <@Ozzel> I think spouse is a must. [21:18] <@Graestan> Spouse can be iffy. [21:18] <+JorrelFraajic> How? [21:19] <@Havac> I wouldn't mind if we lost the master/apprentice fields. [21:19] <+DarthDragon> Would we include adoptive family (EG Leia) [21:19] <@Ataru> Spouse = married, right? :-P [21:19] <+Fiolli> I would support one field with *Name Name (relation) [21:19] <+IFYLOFD> If we must, then just have immediate family. [21:19] <+NaruHina> maybe spouse [21:19] <+The4dotelipsis_> No adoptive families if wecan avoid it. [21:19] <@Xwing328> just do: Offspring: *Leia (adopted) [21:19] <@LtNOWIS> Remarriage is rare here. [21:19] <@Graestan> If we know who the mom and dad of someone are, but not the parents' relationship, what do we put in the parents' fields? [21:19] <+The4dotelipsis_> *we can [21:19] <+StarNeptune> Spouse could be iffy, if you get into things like Tenel Ka and Quinlan Vos [21:19] <+SoresuMakashi> just immediate [21:19] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Grae. [21:19] <@LtNOWIS> Master/apprentice might not work all the time. [21:19] <+NaruHina> thats what I was talking about Fiolli [21:19] <+JorrelFraajic> Grae: "Parents" [21:20] <+The4dotelipsis_> Well, parents doesn't immediately indicate that they were married. [21:20] <@Xwing328> Sounds like a bunch of stuff to work out in a CT if everyone approves of the general idea [21:20] <@Graestan> Jorrel: No, in their articles. [21:20] <@Havac> It's just too iffy. It's not really the purpose of the infobox. [21:20] <@Graestan> Would we list the other parents as "spouse?" [21:20] <@Havac> It's too tangential to the characters themselves. [21:20] <@Graestan> Ostensibly, no. [21:20] <+DC> This whole thing would fall because of speculation on whether theyre married hhave kids, or what [21:20] <+NaruHina> parents is deffinately extronneous [21:20] <@Ataru> This was already shot down anyway, fwiw. [21:20] <+SoresuMakashi> CT again? [21:20] <@Graestan> But the fanon element would creep in. [21:20] <+The4dotelipsis_> The purpose of the infobox is to provide essential information at a glance. In many cases, this is essential. [21:20] <+AdmirableAckbar> We can't re-CT it. [21:20] <@Ozzel> See a Wikipedia example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Burton [21:20] <+AdmirableAckbar> It already failed. [21:20] <@Ozzel> "Partners" [21:20] <+NaruHina> Graes right [21:20] <+SoresuMakashi> Grae: please no [21:20] <@LtNOWIS> We cite our infobox. [21:20] <@Ataru> We're *not* re-CTing it. [21:20] <@Havac> What is it essential to? [21:21] <@Graestan> We can re-CT it, there's lots of precedent for re-CTing. [21:21] <@LtNOWIS> It's useful info. [21:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Easy reference. [21:21] <+GrandMoffTranner> I could go either way, regarding master/apprentice and family [21:21] <@LtNOWIS> Like affiliation [21:21] <@Ataru> But 2 months after it was shot-down? [21:21] <@Ozzel> I don't see how fanon will be any more a problem than it is for anything else. [21:21] <@Ataru> w/e. [21:21] <+The4dotelipsis_> It's just as essential as DOB or DOD, or whatever. [21:21] <@Havac> It's useful, but not central to the character. [21:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Accessible information. [21:21] <@Graestan> I'm just thinking there are quite a few opportunities. [21:21] <@LtNOWIS> And birthyear, etc. [21:21] <@Havac> Date of birth is about the character. [21:21] <+NaruHina> Maaster/app. I like family, no [21:21] <@Havac> Who their brother is isn't about the character. [21:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Who he came from isn't? [21:21] <+Fiolli> It is useful, but is it needed in such an expanded format? [21:21] <@Graestan> Master/Apprentice is just as shady, imo. [21:21] <@LtNOWIS> Family is basic biographical info. [21:21] <+JorrelFraajic> Who he begat isn't? [21:21] <+IFYLOFD> What about Allana? Hers would be too long. [21:21] <+NaruHina> Birthdays are important family gatherings [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> A character's parents isn't relevant to the character? I beg to differ. [21:22] <+IFYLOFD> Way too long. [21:22] <@Ozzel> Mother and father is long? [21:22] <+Fiolli> Master/Apprentice is bunk, if you ask me. [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> Alanna? [21:22] <+Fiolli> I'd rather have family. [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> OK, lemme see...parents... [21:22] <+JorrelFraajic> Per 4dot. [21:22] <@Ataru> Topic is family fields. [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> And that's it. [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> Jacen, and Tenel Ka. [21:22] <@Ataru> Not Master and Apprentice. [21:22] <+StarNeptune> Cade's character is based in part on who is family is [21:22] <+Fiolli> I would support one field with *Name Name (relation) [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> That's all Alanna would have. [21:22] <@Ozzel> Immediate family *only* [21:22] <@Ozzel> Not every known relative. [21:22] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Ozz. [21:22] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Ozzel [21:22] <@LtNOWIS> Master/apprentice has more potential for diciness. [21:22] <+AdmirableAckbar> I'm sort of on the wall on this. [21:22] <@Xwing328> This isn't about Master/Apprentice [21:22] <+JorrelFraajic> Though I don't think that was the meaning at all. [21:22] <+DC> per Ozzel [21:22] <+IFYLOFD> Then would you put Han and Leia (adopted)? [21:22] <+SoresuMakashi> Maybe on people with famalies that have actual articles. for example with Han, family: (See Solo family) [21:22] <@LtNOWIS> you know, we could even throw out siblings if need be. [21:22] <+NaruHina> Narutopedia has that. [21:22] <@Xwing328> Per Ozzel [21:22] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per NOWIS. [21:22] <+The4dotelipsis_> No. We have her real parents. [21:23] <@Havac> We just had the CT. It failed. [21:23] <@Havac> CT it again after a while. [21:23] <@LtNOWIS> I'd prefer adopted and real parents [21:23] <+GrandMoffTranner> No adoptive parents, just biological parents [21:23] <@Havac> There's no need to end-run around the CT failure with a mofference. [21:23] <+JorrelFraajic> I would prefer both. [21:23] <+NaruHina> http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page/wiki/Naruto Uzumaki [21:23] <@Havac> This would just go to CT anyway, with the way we're heading. [21:23] <@Havac> I vote we move on. [21:23] <+JorrelFraajic> But bio > adopt [21:23] <+SoresuMakashi> Just biiological [21:23] <+DarthDragon> Would we do adopted children? [21:23] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Havac. [21:23] <@Ataru> Ugh. [21:23] <+DC> per havac [21:23] <+AdmirableAckbar> Not really going anywhere. [21:23] <+SoresuMakashi> no [21:23] <+The4dotelipsis_> No. [21:23] <@Ataru> Move on, so we can forget this existed. [21:24] <@Graestan> I'd say per Havac. It's too controversial to pass here, too many things to work out, and the CT could have been retooled and put forth instead. [21:24] <+The4dotelipsis_> No adopted anythings. [21:24] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav, but my stance is still yes. [21:24] <+GrandMoffTranner> Grae's right [21:24] <@Ataru> This'll never pass in here. [21:24] <+JorrelFraajic> Next. [21:24] <+NaruHina> move on [21:24] <@Xwing328> do any object to at least having JUST biological for now? [21:24] <@LtNOWIS> we could vote on the basic idea [21:24] <@LtNOWIS> Minimum stuff [21:24] <@Havac> Punt to CT, if we do anything with it at all. [21:24] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yes. [21:24] <+AdmirableAckbar> Next. [21:24] <@Havac> We're not getting anywhere here. [21:24] <+IFYLOFD> CT [21:24] <+SoresuMakashi> needs refinement first [21:24] <+DarthDragon> Move along, move along [21:24] <@Havac> It's too controversial. [21:24] <@Ozzel> I think it's fine. [21:24] <@Havac> Next topic. [21:25] <@Graestan> THERE IS NO NEXT. :S [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> It's refined, just not the right place. [21:25] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yes, let's see who can say the most in a given amount of time. Are we going to vote? [21:25] <+AdmirableAckbar> There is. [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes there is. [21:25] <+AdmirableAckbar> Refresh, Grae. [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> "Era tagsâ€”when should they be used? It used to be, I believe, that era tags were for what eras works featuring the character were set in, not when they existed; so, for example, K'Kruhk wouldn't get a NJO era tag despite living through the era. However, it's inconsistent throughout the site, with some users wanting Rise of the Empire era tags for adult characters appearing in the Rebellion... [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> ...era, etc, so I think we should cement it somewhere." [21:25] * Ataru changes topic to 'Era tag usage- Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:25] <@Graestan> Ah, I have an older version of the page loaded. [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> "AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 23:33, 23 August 2008 (UTC)" [21:25] <@Ozzel> We do need to decide this. [21:25] * +The4dotelipsis_ golf claps. [21:25] <@Graestan> Thank you, Aide Jorrel. :P [21:25] <+AdmirableAckbar> Okay, this is pretty plain cut. [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> :DD [21:25] <+JorrelFraajic> I say, if we know the age, then yes. [21:25] <+The4dotelipsis_> Or is it? [21:25] <@Ataru> I say that, for things like K'Kruhk, no NJO tag. [21:25] <+AdmirableAckbar> Should we use eras for when the character existed or what era works they appear in? [21:25] <@Xwing328> It was decided [21:25] <@Havac> Tag anywhere we know they exist. Anything else is too nebulous. [21:25] <+IFYLOFD> Per Havac. [21:25] <@Ozzel> I say eras appeared in only. [21:25] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Havac [21:25] <@Graestan> Per Acky and Hav [21:25] <@Ataru> Eras tags should be decided by appearance/source IMO. [21:26] <+The4dotelipsis_> Era tags should include flashbacks. [21:26] <@Graestan> It's where in the sources they appear. [21:26] <+NaruHina> Per Ozzel [21:26] <+Fiolli> Per 4dot. [21:26] <@Havac> I'd absolutely oppose appearance eras in the infobox, which is supposed to be IU. [21:26] <@LtNOWIS> But isn't it speculatory to say an adult in the Rebellion was alive a few years prior? [21:26] <+The4dotelipsis_> A'Sharad would get a New and a NJO... [21:26] <@Xwing328> only the ones the appear in, not the ones they lived in. Pretty sure this has gone down at least twice [21:26] <+AdmirableAckbar> What about when someone appears in the Rebellion era as an adult? Should they get Rise of the Empire era? [21:26] <@LtNOWIS> Where do you draw the line on that? [21:26] <@Ozzel> Acky: I don't think so. [21:26] <+NaruHina> Per 4dot [21:26] <@Ataru> Acky: I'd say no. [21:26] <@LtNOWIS> "Oh, he looks at least 15..." [21:26] <+JorrelFraajic> If something appears in RotE, and then disappears until LotF, who is to say they "disappeared"? [21:26] <+JorrelFraajic> Acky: Only if an age is provided. [21:26] <@Ataru> That's why I like direct appearance only. Less speculation. [21:26] <@Havac> If they appear as an adult during that era, then they prima facie have to have been alive in ROE. [21:26] <+NaruHina> only appeared in eras [21:26] <+The4dotelipsis_> What if that person says "When I was a boy, during the Clone Wars, I was banged by Admiral Yularen savagely"? [21:26] <@Ozzel> Think of it from the standpoint of the publishing eras that they are. [21:26] <@Graestan> Conjecture. [21:26] <+SoresuMakashi> Depends if a specific age was presented [21:26] <+The4dotelipsis_> That would count as ROE. [21:27] * @Xwing328 disappears to track down the past decisions (in which all of these arguments have already been made) [21:27] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per 4dot. [21:27] <+Fiolli> Celeste Morne existed through many years but wasn't published in many years. [21:27] <@Ozzel> "This [whatever] appears in materials from these publishing eras." [21:27] <@Graestan> I am against conjecture, for using the era tags to point to sources, which is what the eras pages list. [21:27] <@Havac> If they're an alien species where we don't know their lifespan, then don't tag. [21:27] <@LtNOWIS> Publishing eras are inherently OOU, right? [21:27] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav. [21:27] <@Ozzel> Yes. [21:27] <+Fiolli> Yes. [21:27] <+NaruHina> Star Wars is Sci-Fi someone could waltz into a time warp at anytime [21:27] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yes. [21:27] <@Ataru> LtNOWIS: Yes [21:27] <@Havac> But this is no different from seeing a character only visually and saying, "He looks Human." [21:27] <+NaruHina> yes [21:27] <@Ozzel> I don't like 'em. But they're here, so... [21:27] <+Fiolli> I say only where they appear. [21:27] <@Havac> Obviously Basso is human. I don't think we've ever been told that, though. [21:28] <+Fiolli> This should be the only OOU thing above the BtS in an article, in my opinion. [21:28] <@LtNOWIS> What of we see am adult human in 16 ABY? Do we tag for RoE era? [21:28] <+AdmirableAckbar> I think the whole "only if we definitely definitely know they were alive then" angle. [21:28] <@Havac> But we can do that, because it's glaringly obvious just from reading and thinking. [21:28] <+AdmirableAckbar> Or if they were alive either end of the era. [21:28] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Acky. [21:28] <@Ataru> Per Acky. [21:28] <@LtNOWIS> Havac, he could be an HRD... [21:28] <+JorrelFraajic> Definite ages, etc. [21:28] <+IFYLOFD> Per Acky. [21:28] <@Ataru> But emphasize that *definitely definitely* some more. :-P [21:28] <@Graestan> Man, you guys added a lot since I loaded the page right before the Mofference. [21:28] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Acky [21:28] <@Havac> Theoretically, anything could be anything. [21:28] * JM76 (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/jm76) has joined #wookieepedia [21:28] * Revolutionary is now known as Glaug-Eldare [21:28] <+NaruHina> Timewarps [21:28] <+AdmirableAckbar> Though part of me wants to go with Havac here. [21:28] * Graestan sets mode: +v JM76 [21:28] * Ataru sets mode: +v JM76 [21:29] * NaruHina was kicked by Ataru (Stay on topic) [21:29] <@Xwing328> urg...only thing I could find so far... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:SH_Archive/Too_many_era_tags%3F [21:29] <@LtNOWIS> Where would we draw the line for adult humans being from the Rise of the Empire era? [21:29] <@LtNOWIS> What year? [21:29] <@Havac> We'd draw the line at self-evident. [21:29] <@LtNOWIS> Would it be 15, 16, 18 ABY? [21:29] <@Ataru> Havac: Sounds a little OR to me.. [21:29] <+IFYLOFD> Say 990 BBY. [21:29] <@Havac> If he's got gray hair in 10 ABY, then he was in it. [21:29] * NaruHina (i=REDACTED@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-435e9d2ba081d5bd) has joined #wookieepedia [21:29] <+JorrelFraajic> I wouldn't do it unless we are explicitly given an age. [21:29] * R_F (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [21:29] <+SoresuMakashi> Only if a specific age is given [21:29] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Jorrel [21:29] <@Ataru> Ugh. Only if explicitly given the age. [21:29] <+DC> Per Jorrel here. [21:30] <@Havac> If he looks like he might be ten, or eleven, or twelve, or we don't know, then don't do it. [21:30] <@Ataru> Or else it's Original Research. [21:30] <+The4dotelipsis_> Eh. Your hair can gray like, real quick. [21:30] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +vv NaruHina R_F [21:30] <+JorrelFraajic> Or a "He was in RotE, and gone until LotF" [21:30] <@Ataru> I don't care what they say; that's OR. [21:30] <+JorrelFraajic> "Therefore, Reb, NJO, etc. are givens" [21:30] <@LtNOWIS> That stupid padawan in Jedi:Yoda had white hair [21:30] <+Nebulax> still? [21:30] <+SoresuMakashi> if it says he's 20 in 18 ABY, then we do it [21:30] <@Graestan> Voting time, people. [21:30] <@Ataru> Jorrel: I don't like those, b/c those are supposed to be OOU> [21:30] <@Ozzel> If we're gonna vote, let's say "appeared in" or "existed in". [21:30] <@Graestan> Appeared/Existed? [21:30] <+AdmirableAckbar> I go with my definitely definitely thing. [21:30] <+JorrelFraajic> Ooo, Ozz makes a clearer point. [21:30] <+IFYLOFD> Existed. [21:30] <@Havac> I'm being general here. [21:30] <+The4dotelipsis_> Existed in. [21:31] <+JorrelFraajic> Existed. [21:31] <+Fiolli> Appeared. [21:31] <@Ozzel> Sure. And I say appeared. [21:31] <+GrandMoffTranner> Existed [21:31] <@Graestan> Appeared. [21:31] <+DC> appeared. [21:31] <@Havac> The thing is, if there's doubt, don't do it. [21:31] <+NaruHina> appeared [21:31] <@Ataru> Appeared. [21:31] <+SoresuMakashi> Existed [21:31] <@Havac> Existed. [21:31] <+SoresuMakashi> CT [21:31] <+R_F> Existed. [21:31] <@Ataru> lol [21:31] <+AdmirableAckbar> I'm neutral, actually. [21:31] <+JorrelFraajic> Existed is *far* more helpful than Appeared. [21:31] <+JorrelFraajic> Because that's what the Source field is for. [21:31] <@Xwing328> Don't do it. Only OOU sources they appear in [21:31] <+DarthDragon> Appeared [21:31] <+R_F> Also, Appeared implies an Appearance [21:31] <@Graestan> This needs to go to CT or something. No consensus here. [21:32] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [21:32] <+DC> Yes, this is Ct'able [21:32] <+NaruHina> per Grae [21:32] <@LtNOWIS> No consensus. [21:32] * Ataru changes topic to 'Hair and eyes in infobox Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:32] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae [21:32] <+IFYLOFD> CT [21:32] <+AdmirableAckbar> Okay. [21:32] <+JorrelFraajic> Another new one? [21:32] <@Graestan> # Eye and hair colour in infoboxesâ€”these seem quite unnecessary. People have a tendency to add speculatory-ish eye colours and "none" to the hair colour field. Also, if these should stay, then we should add skin colour. I understand they can be useful for imageless articles, particularly since most people seem loath to add physical description in FAs. Perhaps, with the addition of a skin... [21:32] <@Graestan> ...colour field, a sort of collapsible appearance portion of the infobox or something? -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 00:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC) [21:32] <+JorrelFraajic> Holy damn. [21:32] <+AdmirableAckbar> Eye colour seems really unncessary. [21:32] <@Ataru> Meh. [21:32] <+DC> I'm against this. [21:32] <+SoresuMakashi> Unnessesary [21:32] <@Ozzel> Keep the fields, but crack down on the conjecture. [21:32] <@Ataru> I think it's a good reference. [21:32] <+The4dotelipsis_> Vehement oppose to this. [21:32] <@Ataru> Per Ozzel. [21:32] <@LtNOWIS> Historical note: Eye and hair color may date back to the character boxes in the old Essential Guide to Characters [21:32] <+JorrelFraajic> Eye color go bye-bye. [21:32] <+DC> Hair and Eyes are needed. [21:32] <+IFYLOFD> Unneccessary. [21:32] <+StarNeptune> Doesn;t this have to be sourced anyway? [21:32] <@Ozzel> "None" is NOT a hair color. [21:32] <+NaruHina> Per Ozzel [21:33] <@Ataru> NEGTC does it IIRC. [21:33] <@Graestan> Per Ozzel [21:33] <+IFYLOFD> There is no reason for it. [21:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> Star: right, but people base it off images [21:33] <@Graestan> on the FAN I crack down already [21:33] <+JorrelFraajic> Because of the use of false eye coloring. [21:33] <+SoresuMakashi> This never occurs in anything but the large articles [21:33] <+DC> If you don't know, just leave it blank [21:33] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yeah, no "None"s. [21:33] <+JorrelFraajic> Which has happened IU [21:33] <+SoresuMakashi> But the problem is [21:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> Okay, what about adding "skin colored"? [21:33] <@Xwing328> I tend to be against this because cover art/comic art isn't always canonical, and that's what some people base it on [21:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> *skin color [21:33] <@LtNOWIS> I based it off a scan one time. [21:33] <+JorrelFraajic> I say just get rid of them both. [21:33] <+StarNeptune> Some iages clearly show eye and hair color though [21:33] <+Fiolli> I say none. [21:33] <@Ataru> I'm opposed to that skin color thing. [21:33] <@Ataru> Too speculative. [21:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> Why? [21:33] <+DC> I as well. [21:33] <+The4dotelipsis_> Eh. No skin colour thing. [21:33] <+AdmirableAckbar> It's the same as the others. [21:33] <@LtNOWIS> I zoomed in and took the color-reading tool on a guy's eyes [21:33] <@Havac> This is far more of an infobox topic than family. Keep it. [21:33] <+NaruHina> dont we already have skin color [21:33] <+SoresuMakashi> without it, we'd have no idea, what colour Luke Skywalker's hair was [21:33] <@Ataru> At least NEGTC and others had definite eye/hair. [21:33] <+The4dotelipsis_> Because the Ketos are yellow. :P [21:33] <+GrandMoffTranner> No skin color [21:33] <+JorrelFraajic> Star: And who is to say what color is which? [21:33] <@Xwing328> but if it's written out in canon, i see no prob. with it [21:34] <@Graestan> Velveeta. [21:34] <+JorrelFraajic> I say no colors whatsoever. [21:34] <+R_F> Get rid of both. If its necessary, it'll be in the "Physical Description" section. [21:34] <+AdmirableAckbar> I'm going to go with Jorrel. [21:34] <@LtNOWIS> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dix_(Imperial) Gray-green indeed [21:34] <@Ataru> R_F: That section doesn't exist. We banned those. [21:34] <+JorrelFraajic> Because perception is different person to person. [21:34] <+R_F> Fuck [21:34] * +R_F is behind the times [21:34] <@Havac> I'm for color if someone can figure out what color caucasians are. [21:34] <+R_F> :p [21:34] <@Ataru> Or at least, we strongly discourage. [21:34] <+SoresuMakashi> per R_F [21:34] <@Ataru> *There is no physical description section* [21:34] <@Havac> But color isn't that subjective. [21:34] <@Graestan> per Ataru [21:34] <+The4dotelipsis_> I suppose saying "Flesh-coloured" is racist now. [21:34] <+JorrelFraajic> It is too. You know how many colors exist? [21:34] <+DC> Put it in P&T [21:35] <+AdmirableAckbar> We can still have physical descriptions in the bio or P&T, though. [21:35] <@Graestan> And not enough people use the P&T for appearance like they should. [21:35] <@LtNOWIS> "Fair-skinned" [21:35] <+StarNeptune> Barring coloring mistakes, most characters in comics are pretty consistent as to their eye and hair color [21:35] <@Graestan> It's a Trait. [21:35] <@Ataru> Feh. The skin color is just too much conjecture. [21:35] <@Graestan> Eh, speak not for TOTJ. [21:35] <+The4dotelipsis_> Eh. Physical descriptions can go hang if we have pictures. [21:35] <@Havac> It's not conjecture. [21:35] <@Ataru> There are a decent number of sources for hair and eye. [21:35] <@Havac> How is color a conjecture? [21:35] <+DC> Merili is an excellent example on how P&T should be used for appearance as well [21:35] <@Xwing328> No skin color for characters, yes hair/eye color. Yes skin color for species [21:35] <+R_F> Use hex color, from the images. :p [21:35] <@Ataru> Not so much with skin. [21:35] <@Graestan> Hair and eye color vary in a lot of TOTJ. [21:35] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Is that necessary? [21:35] <+JorrelFraajic> Colorblindness? [21:35] <@LtNOWIS> "brown or black??" [21:35] <+DarthDragon> What skin color would you put for a Togruta [21:35] <@Graestan> I'd say nix it all on characters. [21:35] <@Havac> Red and white. [21:35] <@Ataru> "Togruta reddish-orange" [21:35] <+AdmirableAckbar> I'm curious, though, why people want to keep eye color but not skin color? [21:35] <+R_F> Corral-red [21:36] <@Ataru> "Twi'lek Green" [21:36] <+IFYLOFD> Per Grae. [21:36] <@Havac> We don't need to be specific. [21:36] <@Ataru> Acky: Eyes are in some sources/books. [21:36] <@Ozzel> You don't see "skin color" in NEGTC [21:36] <@LtNOWIS> Get one of those paint matchers [21:36] <@Havac> We're not talking paint samples. [21:36] <@Ataru> Per Ozzel. [21:36] <+R_F> Oh! Oh! Didn't that Death Star Designer have IU color names? :p [21:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> Ataru: so is skin. [21:36] <@Havac> Brown. [21:36] <+IFYLOFD> It's too complicated. Kill it. [21:36] <@Havac> White. [21:36] <@Havac> Yellow. [21:36] <@Havac> Red. [21:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> Example: that Intelligence woman from BFC. [21:36] <@Havac> Purple. [21:36] <@Ataru> Feh. [21:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> Belindi Kalenda. [21:36] <@Ataru> Too complicated. [21:36] <@Graestan> Kalenda. [21:36] <@Havac> Color is not complicated. [21:36] <@Ataru> I'm familiar with Kalenda, thank you. [21:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> I don't understand how it's more complicated than eye color? [21:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> * - ? [21:36] <+The4dotelipsis_> She's from the Corellian Trilogy, actually. [21:36] <@Havac> Preschoolers can manage color. [21:36] <+The4dotelipsis_> I think. :P [21:36] <+AdmirableAckbar> That. [21:37] <@LtNOWIS> Humans aren't primary colored. [21:37] <@Graestan> "Hazel" in eye color means something different than "hazel" the color. [21:37] <+Fiolli> Hair color: Brown (3 BBY - 2ABY) Purple (2.5 ABY to 2.6 ABY), etc. [21:37] <@LtNOWIS> And the primary colors for humans don't match up with real primary colors [21:37] <+Fiolli> That is how obnoxious it could get. [21:37] <@Graestan> Per fiolli. Goofy [21:37] <+NaruHina> How would we color Zaerdra? [21:37] <+Tommy_MotoQ> its just complicated. nothing more. [21:37] <@Ataru> What's the difference between "Tan" and "Beige"? [21:37] <@Ataru> Anyone want to tell me? [21:37] <+DC> There is none. [21:37] <+IFYLOFD> What about Gadon Thek? [21:37] <@Graestan> Sheesh, we need this topic back on its tracks. [21:37] <+The4dotelipsis_> Tan is brownish, beige is yellowish. [21:37] <+The4dotelipsis_> I suppose. [21:38] <+JorrelFraajic> There's 3 letters in Tan, 5 in Beige. [21:38] <@Havac> Ataru, if anyone wants to be Jack Nebulax and bitc habout one shade, we shut them down. [21:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> Let's vote, then. [21:38] <@LtNOWIS> White humans are not as white as white aliens, black people are not as black as black aliens... [21:38] <@Ozzel> Keep as is. [21:38] <@Xwing328> !lame tan [21:38] <+JorrelFraajic> Remove all color. [21:38] <@Graestan> For Acky's proposal? [21:38] <@Ataru> Oppose. [21:38] <@Xwing328> bah, wrong command I guess [21:38] <+The4dotelipsis_> Opposed. [21:38] <+IFYLOFD> Per Jorrel. [21:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> Please say what you mean. [21:38] <+DarthDragon> Leave as is [21:38] <+DC> Opposed [21:38] <@Havac> What are we voting on? [21:38] <+DC> Levae as it is [21:38] * Ataru changes topic to 'Skin color in infoboxWookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> Not "oppose", since there were multiple suggestions. [21:38] <@Ozzel> But be more vigilant about "none". [21:38] * Ataru changes topic to 'Skin color in infobox. Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:38] <@Graestan> His proposal, that I pasted. [21:38] <+The4dotelipsis_> Oppose to everything. [21:38] <@Xwing328> Oppose [21:38] <+GrandMoffTranner> Leave as is [21:38] <+AdmirableAckbar> :| [21:38] <@Ataru> Oppose to everything; leave as is. [21:38] <+JorrelFraajic> Remove all. [21:39] <@Darth_Culator> Keep eye and hair, add skin. [21:39] * +Madclaw (n=chatzill@REDACTED) Quit ("Who's that riding in the sun? Who's the man with the itchy gun? Who's the man who kills for fun? Psycho Dad, Psycho Dad, Psyc) [21:39] <+AdmirableAckbar> Remove all. [21:39] <@Havac> On the proposal to ditch eye and hair color, or to add skin color? [21:39] <+NaruHina> As is [21:39] <+IFYLOFD> Per Jorrel. [21:39] <@Ataru> Havac: All of the above, apparently. [21:39] <+AdmirableAckbar> Havac: just say what you want to do. [21:39] <@LtNOWIS> No to skin color [21:39] <@Havac> This is a mess. [21:39] <+JorrelFraajic> Sigh. CT? [21:39] <+AdmirableAckbar> Meh. [21:39] <+DC> It's be even messier there [21:39] <@Havac> VOTE ON REMOVING EYE AND HAIR, AND THAT ONLY. NOW. [21:39] <@Graestan> CT if we want to go after the fields themselves. [21:39] <@Havac> I vote no. [21:39] <@Ozzel> Removing? Nay. [21:39] <@Xwing328> No CT please [21:39] <+GrandMoffTranner> No [21:39] <@Graestan> No. [21:39] <+NaruHina> no [21:40] <@Ataru> Keep hair and eye. [21:40] <+AdmirableAckbar> Remove. [21:40] <+The4dotelipsis_> No removal. [21:40] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [21:40] <+DarthDragon> Nope [21:40] <+DC> no removal [21:40] <+IFYLOFD> Yes. [21:40] <+Fiolli> Remove. [21:40] <+The4dotelipsis_> That smells like consensus. [21:40] <+Tommy_MotoQ> as is. [21:40] <@Graestan> Stays the same, for now. [21:40] <+JorrelFraajic> Fine. [21:40] <@Havac> Yeah, smells like keep consensus. [21:40] <@Havac> OK. [21:40] <@Xwing328> No removal [21:40] <@Havac> VOTE ON INCLUDING SKIN COLOR AND THAT ONLY. NOW. [21:40] <@Ataru> Heck no. [21:40] <+GrandMoffTranner> No [21:40] <+NaruHina> no [21:40] <+The4dotelipsis_> Oppose. [21:40] <@Havac> Include. [21:40] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes, based on keeping the others. [21:40] <+StarNeptune> no. faull of fail. [21:40] <+AdmirableAckbar> If we're going with what we have, then Include. [21:40] <@Ozzel> No [21:40] <+DarthDragon> Nay [21:40] <+DC> no way. [21:40] <+StarNeptune> full* [21:40] <@Graestan> Include, if the others are there. [21:41] <@LtNOWIS> For skin, "dark" and "light" can work. [21:41] <+IFYLOFD> Include. [21:41] <@LtNOWIS> And all that [21:41] <@Graestan> No consensus. [21:41] <@Graestan> Thanks, Hav. ;) [21:41] <+AdmirableAckbar> Sigh. [21:41] <+NaruHina> Then we get into shades [21:41] <@Graestan> NEXT! [21:41] <@Ataru> Revert to policy! [21:41] <+JorrelFraajic> If we're going to have color, we're going to have *all* forms. [21:41] <@Graestan> # Sidebar links. I'd like to change some of the interaction ones, because some of them get much less traffic. Atarumaster88  (Talk page) 00:25, 24 August 2008 (UTC) [21:41] <+AdmirableAckbar> Per Jorrel. This is ridiculous. [21:41] <@Ataru> Ah, yes. [21:41] <@Ozzel> Grae, could you copy my comment please? [21:41] <@LtNOWIS> About is pretty stupid. [21:41] <@Ataru> I hate to invoke SWF here, but they've got CT and their other forums in the interaction box. [21:41] <@Havac> Acky, Jorrel, I suggest CTing it then and bringing it before everyone. [21:42] * Graestan changes topic to 'Sidebar links. Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:42] <@Xwing328> No include [21:42] <@Havac> But lets [21:42] <+SoresuMakashi> How about only if it says in a source what their skin, eye, or hair colour is [21:42] <@Havac> s move on now. [21:42] <@Ataru> I'd kind of like to see those there. [21:42] <@Graestan> Beat me to it. Particularly, I'd like us to do something different with the FAs. -- Ozzel 00:27, 24 August 2008 (UTC) [21:42] <@Ozzel> Thanks. [21:42] <+IFYLOFD> Lets just CT it. [21:42] <@Ataru> I'm not sure what else Ozzel wants, but I'd like to see CT and KB along with SH in the interaction box. [21:42] <+Tommy_MotoQ> So touchy this is, & for no reason. its all a matter of POV. Not everyone has the same eyes. [21:42] <+AdmirableAckbar> Topic. [21:42] <@Ataru> NEW TOPIC. [21:42] <+JorrelFraajic> Next topic, Tommy. [21:42] <@Ozzel> The FAs stay the same. I'd like to change them up somehow. [21:42] <+DC> WERE MOVING ON [21:42] <+IFYLOFD> NEXT! [21:42] <+NaruHina> move on [21:42] <@Havac> I stand by what I said earlier. [21:42] <@LtNOWIS> Random article must stay. [21:42] <+JorrelFraajic> We'd need a list to properly vote on this topic. [21:43] <+JorrelFraajic> Otherwise it'll be a mess. [21:43] <@Havac> Pimp CP as the location of all links, rather than pimping every single link on CP individually. [21:43] <+NaruHina> Randon article stays [21:43] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Phone lag [21:43] <@Xwing328> I would REALLY like to add CT under the Senate Hall link (as I said before) [21:43] <+The4dotelipsis_> I'm on Monobook, so I don't know what the hell this is. Unless you're talking about the standard sidebars as well. [21:43] <@Ataru> The only 2 I want thus far are CT and KB. [21:43] <@Ozzel> Mind you, I'm talking about the Monaco sidebar here. [21:43] <@Ataru> 4dot: Yes, the monobook sidebar. [21:43] <@Graestan> Idon't want CT up there for newbies. [21:43] <@Graestan> Voting policy and such. [21:43] <@Ataru> I'm talking about Monobook. [21:43] <@Graestan> Ah, Monobook? [21:43] <@Ataru> Which mostly experienced users use. [21:43] <@Graestan> All for it. [21:43] <@Ozzel> Ok. Ataru first then. [21:43] <@Ataru> Newbies don't use Monobook. Some of us do. [21:43] <@Havac> I'd rather take off SH and direct people to CP for everything. [21:44] <@Ataru> As such, I think adding CT and KB would be good, since it's an editor-only skin as of now. [21:44] <+JorrelFraajic> But that involves keeping up to date with CP. [21:44] <+IFYLOFD> Per Ataru. [21:44] <+The4dotelipsis_> I'd like a CT link. It'd be useful. [21:44] <+JorrelFraajic> If it could be done, and properly advertised, then yes, CP. [21:44] <@Xwing328> Maybe a Policies link on both monaco and monobook [21:44] <@Havac> CP doesn't change. [21:44] <@LtNOWIS> What's wrong with CP? [21:44] <+DC> It would be. [21:44] <@Ataru> KB, I could care less about, but CT is a must. [21:44] <@Havac> It's just a list of al lthe important links. [21:44] <@LtNOWIS> All the stuff on their is golden. [21:44] <@LtNOWIS> MOS, welcome page, etc. [21:44] <@Havac> So point people there in one link, rather than duplicating all those links and cluttering the hell out of everything else. [21:45] <+JorrelFraajic> Hmm. Well, then I say it needs some serious pimping. [21:45] <@Xwing328> are you volunteering to revamp CP while you're at it? [21:45] <+JorrelFraajic> Since tonight is the first night I've *ever* learned of it. [21:45] <@Ozzel> CP could use a facelift. [21:45] <@LtNOWIS> It could use some changes, yes. [21:45] <+JorrelFraajic> *Ever* [21:45] <@LtNOWIS> But it doesn't need to be prettier. [21:45] <@Havac> I don't think it needs a total facelift. [21:45] <@Havac> The main thing is getting the name out there that this is the place with all the links you need. [21:45] <@Graestan> I don't think we'd even need a vote on improving the CP. [21:45] <+DC> Yes. [21:45] <@Havac> Brag it up a little harder in the welcome template, etc. [21:45] <+DC> per Grae [21:45] <@Ataru> CP is not on topic. [21:46] <@Ataru> We're talking about sidebar links, darnit. [21:46] <+JorrelFraajic> We could change the name, too. To match CT, KB, TC, etc. [21:46] <+JorrelFraajic> Anyway, sidebar links. [21:46] <@Xwing328> Per Grae [21:46] <@Havac> Ataru, we're talking about this as an alternative to sidebar links. [21:46] <@LtNOWIS> About Wookieepedia is the only worthless sidebar link I see. [21:46] <@Havac> I'd think we would rather be productive than be strictly on-topic. [21:46] <@LtNOWIS> Since we already link to Wookieepedia a lot of places [21:46] <+JorrelFraajic> I say CT, because, as we all see, the conversation somewhat devolved. [21:46] <@LtNOWIS> Main page, and such [21:46] <@Ataru> Meh. I wanted to add CT to the monobook sidebar. [21:46] <@Ataru> Maybe KB. [21:46] <@Xwing328> whether or not CP is a good place for links, I'd like to have a few more on the side to lessen the number of clicks it takes to get to the right places [21:46] <+DC> So do I [21:47] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Xwing. [21:47] <@Havac> I don't want CT. [21:47] <+DC> I say no to KB [21:47] <@Havac> Noobs don't need to see it. [21:47] <+NaruHina> no CT [21:47] <@Havac> We've got problems enough from uninformed idiots voting on policy. [21:47] <@Ozzel> As mentioned, most people will see Monaco. [21:47] <+IFYLOFD> Per Xwing328 [21:47] <+NaruHina> KB might work [21:47] <@Ataru> This is *MONOBOOK* [21:47] <+DC> KB would get a flood of n00bs there [21:47] <@Ataru> Newbs will not see Monobook. [21:47] <+Fiolli> I'd prefer no Forum links. [21:47] <@Ozzel> I think you can feel free to gear Monobook to the old folks. [21:47] <@Graestan> If it's monobook, then good. [21:47] <@Ataru> Newbs see *MONACO* [21:47] <@Graestan> Per Ozzel. No need for voting, IMO. [21:48] <+DC> per Ozzel [21:48] <@Graestan> I imagine Greyman or Imp's have just added the links. [21:48] <+DarthDragon> I think if we're going to put Forum links on it, we should put them all. [21:48] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Ozzel [21:48] <@Graestan> Since it's just Monobook. [21:48] <@Ataru> Okay. :-) [21:48] <+JorrelFraajic> Monobook: Yes to CT, yes to KB. [21:48] <@LtNOWIS> It doesn't need to be cluttered [21:48] <+Fiolli> Lame. [21:48] <+NaruHina> a'righ [21:48] <+Fiolli> I use Monaco. [21:48] <@Graestan> Vote! [21:48] <@Havac> Yeah, I don't think we need to make the sidebar more cluttered. [21:48] <+Fiolli> Why does it matter which we use. [21:48] <@Havac> I'd sooner streamline than clutter it. [21:48] <@Graestan> Monobook gets CT added? [21:48] <@Graestan> Yay. [21:49] <@Havac> Nay. [21:49] <+DC> YAY!!!! [21:49] <@LtNOWIS> Just bookmark all that if you care about it. [21:49] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [21:49] <@LtNOWIS> Nay. [21:49] <@Ataru> Yes to adding CT to Monobook interaction sidebar. [21:49] <+Fiolli> Or learn shortcuts. F:CT isn't hard to remember. [21:49] <@Xwing328> Yay [21:49] <+GrandMoffTranner> Yes, though it really doesn't matter to me [21:49] <+IFYLOFD> Yay [21:49] <@LtNOWIS> We should just link to Forum:Index [21:49] <@Ozzel> Abstain. [21:49] <@LtNOWIS> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Index Great page, guys [21:50] <+Tommy_MotoQ> I use whichever one is the Coruscant skyline. [21:50] <@Ataru> Tommy: Topic warning. [21:50] <+NaruHina> abstain [21:50] <@Graestan> Remove the C4 thing and adding that would be nice, NOWIS [21:50] <+JorrelFraajic> Extra click. [21:50] <+GrandMoffTranner> Per Grae [21:50] <+JorrelFraajic> Horrible when the site is grinding. [21:50] <+Tommy_MotoQ> Phone lags my responses. [21:51] <@Xwing328> 7 for, 2 against, 2 abstaining so far [21:51] <+Fiolli> Against. [21:51] <@Ataru> Still sounds like consensus. [21:51] <+DarthDragon> Abstain [21:51] <@Darth_Culator> I'm fine with it. Just move on. [21:51] <@Graestan> Yes, CT will be added to Monobook. [21:51] <@Havac> Punt to CT. [21:51] <@Ataru> It's just adding 1 link to the monobook sidebar, sheesh. [21:51] <@Ozzel> I did want to address the Monaco sidebar though, if I may. [21:51] <+JorrelFraajic> Next? [21:52] * +JorrelFraajic wants to see the next one. [21:52] <@Graestan> Firefox as the Official Browser of Wookieepedia. Darthipedia did it. Everyone should do it. Makes it easier to tell people how to block ads. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 00:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC) [21:52] <+JorrelFraajic> YES [21:52] <@Graestan> Yes. [21:52] * Ataru changes topic to 'Official browswer. Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:52] <@Darth_Culator> Per me. [21:52] <@Graestan> We don't force anything, justencourage. [21:52] * Ataru changes topic to 'Official browser. Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:52] <+JorrelFraajic> Resounding yes. [21:52] <@LtNOWIS> Eh... [21:52] <+DC> I dont use Firefox, so.... [21:52] <@Ozzel> Sure, why not. [21:52] <+AdmirableAckbar> I'm not really sure what this would achieve, but support. [21:52] <+DC> epic meh. [21:52] <+DC> abstaining [21:52] <+NaruHina> I dont use firefox [21:52] <+JorrelFraajic> Most sites do this. [21:52] <+IFYLOFD> Ehhhhhh.... [21:52] <@Ataru> Epic meh, but I suppose support. [21:52] <@Havac> I support an official browswer. [21:52] <@Darth_Culator> We'll decide where to pimp it later. [21:52] <@LtNOWIS> Can we officially crush ads and be cool with Wikia? [21:52] <+JorrelFraajic> "BEst viewed through Firefox" [21:52] <@Havac> Not sure about browsers. [21:52] <@Darth_Culator> For now, just yea or nay. [21:52] <+IFYLOFD> I don't use fireox. [21:53] <@Ozzel> Yay [21:53] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [21:53] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yay [21:53] <+GrandMoffTranner> No Firefox for me, but as long as I'm not forced to use it, why not [21:53] * IFYLOFD was kicked by Ataru (off-topic) [21:53] <@Havac> Yes. [21:53] <@Graestan> DC: This isn't by any means a forced measure. We just encourage it for those who want to circumvent Wikia's bullshit. [21:53] <@Ozzel> But I don't think we can encourage adblocking. [21:53] <+StarNeptune> I use Firefox, so I abstain from this [21:53] <@Havac> Because it's best viewed through Firefox anyway. [21:53] <@Havac> Might as well let people know it. [21:53] <+Tommy_MotoQ> I *rarely* have access to firefox. [21:53] <+DC> Im still abstaining. [21:53] <+The4dotelipsis_> Hmm. I support this [21:53] <@Xwing328> How do you plan on "encouraging" this. It could affect my vote [21:53] <+DarthDragon> Will we do anything that will help firefox users but hurt IE users [21:53] <+NaruHina> If I'm not forced, I support [21:53] <@Ozzel> Just saying "Hey, we reccommend this one." [21:53] <@Ataru> This ain't about who has FF. This is about whether or not to support the measure. Please remember that. [21:53] <@Xwing328> just a firefox link at the bottom or something? [21:53] <@Graestan> Yeah. [21:53] <+JorrelFraajic> Perhaps something on the bottom of the main page? "Best viewed using Firefox 3.0" or something like that? [21:53] <@Havac> Yeah, I don't think we need to phase out support for IE. [21:54] <@Havac> Just point out that we're better in FF. [21:54] <@LtNOWIS> Are we? [21:54] * IFYLOFD (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-d46e2f31eeaea799) has joined #wookieepedia [21:54] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [21:54] <@Graestan> We are. [21:54] <+JorrelFraajic> We are. [21:54] <@Ataru> I'm fine with suggesting people use Firefox. [21:54] <+JorrelFraajic> Much better. [21:54] <@Havac> We ought to be. [21:54] <+Fiolli> Against. (Yes, I use FF) [21:54] <@Xwing328> Yeah Jorrel, sounds good to me [21:54] * Ataru sets mode: +v IFYLOFD [21:54] <+JorrelFraajic> Faster, better templatewise... [21:54] <+JorrelFraajic> Formatting works better... [21:54] <@Ozzel> If I may speak on Sikon's behalf without his knowledge, yes. :-p [21:54] <+DarthDragon> I thought we're been having formatting issues with FF? [21:54] <@Graestan> Nah. [21:54] <+JorrelFraajic> Highly doubtful. [21:54] <@Graestan> I never did. [21:55] <+JorrelFraajic> I had issues in IE6, though. [21:55] <+JorrelFraajic> Recently. [21:55] <+JorrelFraajic> So, anyway, yes to recommendation. [21:55] <+DarthDragon> Ok, I don't know where I heard that then... [21:55] <@Ataru> Meh, I think we more or less agree with this idea. [21:55] <+DarthDragon> Sure, why not [21:55] * Three-Atesee (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [21:55] <@Darth_Culator> Looks pretty consensus-y to me. I'll write up some proposals for how to pimp it later. [21:55] * Darth_Culator sets mode: +v Three-Atesee [21:55] * Ozzel sets mode: +v Three-Atesee [21:55] <@Ataru> I'm fine with that. [21:55] <@Ataru> NEXT! [21:55] <+JorrelFraajic> Next? [21:55] <+DC> NEXT [21:55] <@Graestan> I'd say feel free to make the changes, Culator. [21:55] * +Tommy_MotoQ (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-d79b89405ca25c41) Quit ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") [21:55] <+NaruHina> next [21:55] <@Graestan> De-GAing. How and by who this would be achieved can be discussed another time if necessary, but this has to happen to keep the integrity of GA. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 00:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC) [21:56] * Ataru changes topic to 'De-GAing. Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org' [21:56] <+AdmirableAckbar> Right. As Ataru mentioned above, GAN is going quite well atm, and most newly passed GAs are up to scratch. But this is pretty meaningless since we have hordes of crap, old GAs. I want us to enable de-GAing, in some shape, way or form. I have a few ideas on it, though how exactly we'd do it can be decided another time. [21:56] <@Ozzel> Answer: Article assessment. [21:56] <@Darth_Culator> Yes to de-good-ing. [21:56] <+AdmirableAckbar> I can say my idea now if you want, though it hasn't been given much thought. [21:56] <@Ataru> I'm in favor of this idea, in general. [21:56] <+JorrelFraajic> I say yes. It's possible for a GA to fall into subpar-ness. [21:56] <+DC> Strong support [21:56] <+GrandMoffTranner> Support [21:56] <@Ataru> As long as there's a workable proposal that doesn't involve me doing tons of work, I'm for it. :-P [21:56] <@Ozzel> But I'm for working on GA regardless. [21:56] <+The4dotelipsis_> I think GA is too broken for this to be worthwhile. [21:56] <@Ozzel> Perhaps bring the Inq into it. [21:57] <@Ataru> A lot of my old GAs are subpar anyway, and need removed. [21:57] <+AdmirableAckbar> Here's my idea: [21:57] <@Ataru> NO! [21:57] <+JorrelFraajic> NO [21:57] <@Darth_Culator> No. [21:57] <@Ataru> The Inq needs out of htis. [21:57] * @Graestan shrinks from the work [21:57] <@Ataru> *this [21:57] * +IFYLOFD (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-d46e2f31eeaea799) Quit (Client Quit) [21:57] <+NaruHina> It'll just be more werk for Inqs....100% YESS!!!!! [21:57] <@Havac> Enable de-GAing. [21:57] <@Darth_Culator> Quiet, you. [21:57] <@Xwing328> Support de-GAing [21:57] <+DarthDragon> Support [21:57] <@Ataru> Support de-GAing, not by Inqs. [21:57] <+DC> this article is a complete GA joke [21:57] <+The4dotelipsis_> Enable it, but by God, I hope that one day we decide to actually fundamentally fix GA. [21:57] <+GrandMoffTranner> Again, support [21:57] <@Graestan> Support de-GAing, and I plan to de-GA one I have my eye on unilaterally, anyhow. [21:57] <+DC> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cade_Skywalker [21:57] <@Ozzel> I'm not saying 5 Inqs. But at least one perhaps. [21:57] <+DC> it needs to be de-GA'd [21:57] <@Graestan> I put the template up, it didn't get fixed, it goes/ [21:58] <@Ataru> Ozzel: The Inqs don't want that job. [21:58] <+AdmirableAckbar> as per now, anyone can add the badGA template, and if it's still bad after one month, the Inq -- ergo, me -- can remove the check and the article from the list. [21:58] <+Nebulax> "Don't be a dick" [21:58] <+Nebulax> wdf? [21:58] <+AdmirableAckbar> Topic. [21:58] * Nebulax was kicked by Ataru (Off-topic) [21:58] <@Xwing328> I'd probably be more likely to work on GA's as an Inq than FA's, simply since they're shorter and it's so hard to find time [21:58] <@Ozzel> I'd like to see one Inq or two Inqs be able to de-GA. [21:58] <+AdmirableAckbar> It would basically require someone to check the category each month and cull the obviously crap ones. [21:58] <+DC> i say two or 3 inqs do this. [21:58] <+AdmirableAckbar> And I volunteer. [21:58] <+The4dotelipsis_> That doesn't sound too hard. [21:59] <+The4dotelipsis_> I'd do it. [21:59] * Kathkira (n=chatzill@REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia [21:59] * Tommy9281 (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-996b12b30f4bc506) has joined #wookieepedia [21:59] * Graestan sets mode: +vv Kathkira Tommy9281 [21:59] * Ataru sets mode: +v Kathkira [21:59] <+AdmirableAckbar> That sound okay? [21:59] <+DC> they need to have some agreement in order to de-GA [21:59] <+JorrelFraajic> I say yes to De-GAing, yes to Inq support in GA. [21:59] <@Havac> That's a little too informal for me. [21:59] <+The4dotelipsis_> Although holding these articles to the wimpish existing GA rules is a bit of a joke. [21:59] <@Ataru> Yes to De-GAing, no to Inq involvement officially. [21:59] <+NaruHina> yes still [21:59] <@Xwing328> i'd say 3 [21:59] <@Ataru> It's outside our mandate. [21:59] <@Ozzel> I'd also say require one of the 5 votes for GA to be Inq. [22:00] <@Graestan> de-GA is a great idea, and I invite someone to work out the details in CT [22:00] <+AdmirableAckbar> That's another issue, Ozz. [22:00] <+SoresuMakashi> GA's often aren't very high quality. I think we forget that a GA is just a shorter version of an FA. It should be the same quality. So yes, we need un-GA-ing [22:00] <+JorrelFraajic> Then expand the mandate. [22:00] <@Ataru> And then we'll have people complaining that some Inqs aren't doing stuff. [22:00] <@Havac> CT this. [22:00] <+JorrelFraajic> But that's offtopic anyway. [22:00] <@Graestan> So, I think it's time to say [22:00] <@Xwing328> Per Graestan [22:00] <@Graestan> *NEXT!* [22:00] <+AdmirableAckbar> Okay, I'll make a CT. [22:00] <@Ataru> CT! [22:00] <+The4dotelipsis_> Hah hah hah... [22:00] <@Graestan> This sort of goes along with Ackbar's thing, but yes. We need a set voting system for the GAN page. First off, I'd like the same thing we do on the FAN page: the nominator doesnt get a vote. It needs five votes to pass. I'm not saying we use the Inq here to set up five reviews like the FAN page. That destroys the integrity of GA's. But what we need is a set system for GA, better than the one... [22:00] <@Graestan> ...we have npow. I'll elaborate on this later if needed. DC 01:28, 24 August 2008 (UTC) [22:00] <@Graestan> DC? [22:00] <+AdmirableAckbar> I think it's fine as is. [22:00] <+JorrelFraajic> Fixing the GA? In a Mofference? [22:00] <+JorrelFraajic> O_o [22:00] <+JorrelFraajic> GA system* [22:00] * Charitwo (n=Charitwo@wikia/pdpc.silver.Charitwo) has joined #wookieepedia [22:00] <@Graestan> I'd say remove nominator vote. [22:00] * Nuku-Nuku sets mode: +v Charitwo [22:00] <+DC> I still think the nominating vote needs to go. [22:00] <+Fiolli> Per Grae. [22:01] <@Ataru> I could see that, but nothing more. [22:01] <@Ozzel> Eh... I don't know. [22:01] <@Havac> I'm all for making GA Mini-FA. [22:01] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yes, remove nominator vote. That's a step in the right direction. [22:01] <@Havac> All. For. [22:01] <+GrandMoffTranner> Removed nominator vote [22:01] <+NaruHina> nominating votes arent fair [22:01] <+GrandMoffTranner> *Remove [22:01] <@Xwing328> rmv nominating vote [22:01] <@Havac> Anything to make it more like FA gets my vote. [22:01] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yeah, I can go with that. Remove nominator vote. [22:01] <+Tommy9281> for [22:01] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Hav. [22:01] <+NaruHina> they delay the enevitable [22:01] <@Graestan> Nominator nominates. Others decide if nominator is on crack. [22:01] <+JorrelFraajic> Per Grae. [22:01] <@Ataru> Lol, and per Grae. [22:01] <+Fiolli> Per Grae. [22:02] <@Graestan> Vote? [22:02] <@Graestan> Remove nominator votes on GA: [22:02] <+NaruHina> Per grae [22:02] <+Fiolli> Let's vote. [22:02] <@Graestan> Yay. [22:02] <+AdmirableAckbar> Yay. [22:02] <@Ataru> Aye. [22:02] <+GrandMoffTranner> Yes [22:02] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yay. [22:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [22:02] <+DarthDragon> Yes [22:02] <+Tommy9281> aye. [22:02] <+DC> per me, of course [22:02] <+NaruHina> Yea [22:02] <+Fiolli> Kill. . . . er... remove... er... yes. [22:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Retroactive on current GA noms? [22:02] <@Ozzel> Meh. [22:02] <@Graestan> Swift consensus. [22:02] <+DC> no. [22:02] <@Ataru> Jorrel: No, grandfather, probably. [22:02] <+Fiolli> Absolutely retroactive! [22:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Gotcha. [22:02] <@Graestan> Jorrel: Henceforth etc. [22:02] <+Tommy9281> Yes Jorrel [22:02] <@Xwing328> Yes [22:02] <@Ataru> Fiolli: Henceforth. [22:02] <+Fiolli> All current noms. [22:02] <+Fiolli> I propose *all current* noms. [22:02] <+JorrelFraajic> Wow, lots of conflicting answers. [22:03] <@Graestan> Would current nominators take offense? [22:03] <@Ozzel> Well, which is it? [22:03] <@Graestan> There are a few in the room/ [22:03] <+JorrelFraajic> Probably. [22:03] <@Graestan> ? [22:03] <+DC> I wont [22:03] <@Ataru> W/e. I don't care about GA all that much. :-P [22:03] <+AdmirableAckbar> Cav is the main nominator. [22:03] * IFYLOFD (n=REDACTED@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-69bb0d0906eeff57) has joined #wookieepedia [22:03] * Ataru sets mode: +v IFYLOFD [22:03] <@Graestan> Retroactive for current GANS? Vote. [22:03] <@Ataru> No. [22:03] <@Graestan> Yay. [22:03] <@Darth_Culator> Yes. [22:03] <+Fiolli> Yes. [22:03] <@Ozzel> Nay. [22:03] <+GrandMoffTranner> Yes [22:03] <+DarthDragon> Yup [22:03] <+JorrelFraajic> Yes. [22:03] <+DC> suree [22:03] <@Ataru> Looks like consensus for "yes" [22:03] <+The4dotelipsis_> Yes. [22:03] <+Tommy9281> Yes [22:03] <+DC> yes [22:03] <+AdmirableAckbar> yes [22:03] <@Graestan> Okay, we can do this. [22:03] <+JorrelFraajic> I'd say so. [22:03] <@Xwing328> i guess [22:03] <+NaruHina> yes [22:04] <+Fiolli> Only two "no" votes. [22:04] <+Tommy9281> Cav can handle an extra vote. [22:04] <@Graestan> *I'd like to congratulate everyone who took part in what has to be the most productive Mofference in years.* [22:04] <@Graestan> *DARK FAREWELLS!* [22:04] * @Ataru golf claps. [22:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> I'll make my two CTs in the morning. [22:04] <+SoresuMakashi> per fourdot [22:04] <@Ataru> HOORAY! [22:04] <+DC> whoopee. [22:04] <+IFYLOFD> YAAAAAAY [22:04] <+AdmirableAckbar> I look forward to it 9_9 [22:04] <+Fiolli> Heh. [22:04] * Ataru changes topic to 'THIS IS AFTER TEH MOFOFEFERENCE! Wookieepedia, the Star Wars wiki - http://starwars.wikia.com - Site status: Recovering. - Please respect the IRC rules. Off-topic chat is welcome in #wookieepedia-social - Quotes: http://qdb.lucidfox.org