Talk:Valkorion/Archive1

 This page is an archive of the discussion of an article. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's current talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.

Intro
(User:Suzina 00:06, 10 November 2011 (UTC)) The picture used in this entry to depict the Emperor, as a pale white skinned male from Blood of the Empire is incorrect. The Emperor is only speaking "through" this body from a remote location. This is established later in the comic and indicated by the black-and-red outline of the chat bubble. . (Sith my ride&#39;s Return 00:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC))I thought sadow was killed by Freedon Nadd. Actually, Naga Sadow's death by Freedon Nadd is only mentioned, but it was never depicted, so anything could happen. However, I hope it isn't Sadow. To me, he's the idiot that got the Sith Empire destroyed in the first place. -- Michaeldsuarez  ( Activate Holocron ) 18:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC) EDIT: Apparantly, the book mentions different sources saying different things about Nadd's learning of the Dark Side. One of which is an apprenticeship to the spirit of Sadow. Hmm, if Sadow somehow continued his existence past this, could he have done a Palpatine, and resurrected into new bodies? VT-16 21:05, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * He was. And I saw nothing in the source leading me to believe it's Naga Sadow. I think I'll removed that bit soon.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 00:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's obviously Ludo Kressh. Who was the reigning Dark Lord when Sadow returned from Republic space? Kressh. Who fled from Korriban with his entire army at the conclusion of the battle? Kressh. 71.61.97.8 02:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * http://pc.ign.com/articles/922/922656p1.html seems to pretty much confirm that it is Naga Sadow. Especially "Sadow and many other Dark Lords went into hiding beyond the boundaries of known space.", and later, "With his fleets ready and his fifth columnists in place in the Outer Rim, Sadow finally launched his attack." 07:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The article does say that Sadow is the emperor. I don't understand how this will fit, since Freedon Nadd did kill him. It seems that there's a doppleganger involved. My guess is that Nadd killed Sadow, and a leading Dark Lord of the True Sith took the title of emperor and used Sadow's name to scare the Jedi and the Republic. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 11:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It says even more clearly that the Sith Emperor is indeed Sadow here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6199706&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;1 Jediphile 01:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This info appears only in IGN's article. On the official site there is no indication of him being Naga Sadow. I think that IGN messed up things a bit. QuiGonJinn  (Comlink)Quigonheadshot.jpg
 * To Grand Moff Tranner: there are a number of ways he could have eluded death, Palpatine's body-swapping and old-fashioned cyborgism are two alternatives that come to mind. If he did indeed die, perhaps a clone? Still, my guess is as good as yours. We'll just have to see whether this was a mistake by IGN or indeed the truth. Would be really cool if it really was Sadow, though. 14:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparantly Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force now all but severs any connection Nadd had to Sadow himself, furthering the "maybe he did live" hints from the NEC. I guess since the game was being worked on from 2005 and that book was made in late 2007, it was a hint at his continued existence.

Does Naga Sadow's tomb on Korriban actually have a sarcophagus anywhere (KOTOR I)? I've never thought about it till now, so I don't know, but I can't remember one. All I remember being in the final chamber is the star map and the statue with the ceremonial sabre, and you'd expect it to be there. Even if there is no sarcophagus it wouldn't be proof, but it could have been a hint left by the game designers. If I'm right, then Naga Sadow's tomb is the only one in both games without an actual body. Jon Ralen 02:19, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Checked the actual Naga Sadow page, and it says he survived, went to Yavin IV hoping to form a new base, and eventually put himself in hibernation. So nothing to stop him having one last crack at the galaxy before retreating to Yavin IV, but nothing to confirm it yet either. Jon Ralen 02:31, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Your dates are mixed up. He survives the Great Sith War, and flees to Yavin. Not the one in this game, which takes place 1,400 years later. VT-16 08:31, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

You're right, I did get a timeline wrong, but not the which war timeline. I forgot about Freedon Nadd killing him/his spirit well before KOTOR I, let alone SWTOR, even though that was only mentioned 3 or 4 times in the discussion. Bad day for me, never mind :) Jon Ralen 08:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

"The emperor of the old Sith from the Hyperspace War that the jedi thought they had killed off" - http://gameinformer.com/games/star_wars_the_old_republic/m/star_wars_the_old_republic_media/108340.aspx - given that the Sith attacking the Republic during the Great Hyperspace War were led by Naga Sadow and the Republic and the Jedi thus never fought against Ludo Kressh, I'd consider this further circumstantial evidence that the Sith Emperor is Naga Sadow. Jediphile 12:01, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * The Essential Atlas says that Shar Dakhan is the last acting Dark Lord. There is also a map from it i bleive which shows them to go their separate ways with the Emperor going to the unknown regions and sadow to Yavin--194.176.105.43 12:12, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

darth andeddu
can he be darth andeddu??

andeddu lived in an unknown era and it is speculated that he may can be the first darth: who means in rakata triumph over the death

DARK LORD IN THE SITH
should he really have his name over every sith between his downfall and rise again, if he was in exile then he wasnt the dark lord of the sith, it should be removed untill more is revealed. Here's why it could be Naga Sadow: the ancient Sith culture is similar to ancient Egypt in many ways. Who says the Sith don't make tombs to themselves before they die, just like the Egyptians do! Also, Kressh can't be the Sith Emperor because his corpse is found in the Secret Tomb on Korriban in KOTOR II! Anyway. This Sith Emperor is supposed to be survivor from the Old Sith Empire and thus it is impossible for him to give up only titile which he and every sith before and after him wanted most of all. Hope that now I am clear an appologize for long text.--ScorpiO 05:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There wasn't any downfall, he just went into hiding with his loyal Sith, so he was their leader as stated in the sucession box. QuiGonJinn Always remember, your focus determines your reality.Qui-Gon negtc.jpg 18:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * SO there was a downfull, if he went into hiding he went into exile with the end of the sith empire. Alex1991 15:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and by the way, sign your posts with four tildes. QuiGonJinn Always remember, your focus determines your reality.Qui-Gon negtc.jpg 18:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to burst your bubble, but Naga Sadow was killed by Freedon Nadd on Yavin IV. Therefore Lord Sadow cannot be the Sith Emperor. It seems the Sith Emperor was Lord Sadow's contemporary, who took over after Naga Sadow was forced to flee from the Republic onslaught.Gorthuar 12:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't understand why everyone wants Naga Sadow to live for. He's dead. D-E-D. Dead :). -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 14:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. The more recent sources both downplay his fate as well as any direct connection he may have had with Nadd's tutoring. It's even unclear whether Nadd ever killed him or not, according to the JvS:TEGTTF and I think the NEC also doesn't say that Nadd actually killed him. Since the game has been in development for many years, it's possible these retcons were put in place to decrease the continuity problems if Sadow was to return as this Emperor figure. VT-16 15:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do you think that Emperor must be somebody known? There were lot of Sith lords in the Council in the end of the old empire. Is not it more likely that one from them survived and fled the known space where he silently prepared a revange?--ScorpiO 15:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but if the IGN article was correct, it was Sadow himself. I'm just hoping this wasn't a mistake on their part. VT-16 15:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * With the "quality" of IGN's articles, your hopes equate to hoping for a miracle, I'm afraid. I actually expect they made an error. Gorthuar 19:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I just read the IGN article and OH MY GOD. I hope it is an error, not only for Sadow as emperor but for his dark council as well. 12 dark lords? WTF another mess in this title?--ScorpiO 20:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the TOR website is responsible for that last thing. In the Sith Empire's description here http://www.swtor.com/info/story/sith-empire there is a link labeled "Dark Lords". It leads to an article on *Sith* Lords, rather then on Dark Lords of the Sith. Currently I fervently hope it's an error on part of the game developer, which will be corrected in the final product. Gorthuar 20:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Having more than one Dark Lord of the Sith here won't be much of a continuity problem, since the Brotherhood of Darkness had more than one person with the title. -MPK 21:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No it would be a very big problem. It is cleary stated that it was a sole title, an unic one. Until the JvS:tEGttF there was only one dark lord at the time until Kaan. JvS:tEGttF stated that both ulic and exar and revan with malak were both DLotS. But JvS:tEGttF is very hmm unclear in it because it calls DLotS even Bandon Traya and Sion. I Think that 12 DLOTS is a big ERROR because emperor is from the old sith empire and there was only one dark lord, only one emperor and not many. If it is correct it will be very big MESS and we would have source whith oposite info. --ScorpiO 21:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Really, do you have to abbreviate everything? It's getting harder and harder to understand you. -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 21:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I guess you are right so I am sorry. Here is "Extended Edition". So, in my opinion the issue with more than one Dark Lord at the same time would be a very very big problem. The title of Dark Lord of the Sith was only for the ruler of the sith, true enbodiment of the dark side and thus there could be only one dark lord at the time. When ruler grows weak, another must succed him. This is the way of the Sith. And it was that way until the fool Kaan gave this unic title to all of his Sith Lords. But until this pervertion there allways was only one dark lord. (of course we have a problem with Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force. In this book there is stated (and not once) that Kun and Qel-Droma were both Dark Lords at the same time (the same with Revan and Malak). Alright, we can argue that this book is very unclear in the naming of Dark Lords because there is also stated that Darth Bandon,Traya and Sion were all Dark Lords as well.
 * Sorry, but the Rule of Two began its practice with Darth Bane, although it was originally convinced by Darth Revan. -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 22:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but I missed your point. It is true that Bane used Revan philosophy for creation of his Rule of Two but why is it important? My point has nothing to do with Rule of Two. Revan himself wrote that sith must be ruled by one individual not by many. Anyway Revan was not even the part of the original Empire and was enemy of this Sith emperor.--ScorpiO 05:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Revan wasnt an enamy of this sith emeror when he was dark lord of the sith, this only happened after he was reddemed and went to hunt them down or what ever he went to do, i agree, the sith empror cant of been the dark lord of the sith as during his exile many other held the title, maybe there should be another succsession 'leader of the sith empire in exile, dark lord of the sith in exile, leader of the sith empire, head of the 'true sith', during this time scale he ruled the exiled with but he wasnt actually the dark lord of the sith. Alexsau1991 22:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Except the Emperor was the 'real' Dark Lord, Revan and all the others were pretenders branching off from Freedon. 72.90.125.29 10:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean branching off of Naga Sadow. Sadow was waiting his time on Yavin, while this guy was getting things done. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Image?
I was looking to see if there was any new information on TOR through the internet and I happened upon a website called "Star Wars- TOR- Temple". I went to their "concept art" section and I found a few pieces of artwork that I had not seen anywhere previously (which were very interesting). Amongst them was this:

Now, this is very similar to a much smaller cropped version of the same room with some of the same characters but with a different view and the Dark Council in it. This image appears to be official, yet I cannot find where they got it from? Anyone know? Because in that case it provides a decent shot of the "Sith Emperor", or at least the being implied to be him. Whether we decide to put it up or not, it's still worth knowing, no? --Sauron18 05:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

You cant be sure that this image is the 'sith emperor' it could just be a sith lord of his order/empire. Alexsau1991 21:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

the sith emperor is really Darth malgus he is the dark lord of the sith he brought down the Jedi temple I found this information on a star wars golden member page.
 * He is not. BioWare confirmed that they did not intend to say he is the Emporer when say used the Term "Dark Lord of the Sith". See the Developer Tracker of the swtor-forum for comfirmation. Gulomi Jomesh 08:36, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Naga Sadow Sucks!
Does anyone else find the prospect of this "Sith Emperor" being Saga Sadow a little disappointing? When I read The Golded Age of the Sith and Fall of the Sith Empire, I couldn't help thinking what a shabby Dark Lord Sadow was. Nothing about him struck me as Sith, let alone Dark Lord. He was almost... gentle.

Does anyone else agree that Sadow as the game's antagonist is a very poor choice? 71.61.97.8 18:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I do, though for an entirelly different reason. Truth be told, I find Lord Sadow the very essence of the Sith. After all, Darth Sidious was gentle too. However keeping Naga Sadow alive retcons the whole line of Dark Lords established by Freedon Nadd as little more then misguided usurpers. Not something I'm overly fond of. Do keep in mind, however, that there was no official source claiming that the Sith Emperor is Lord Sadow. Gorthuar 18:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree whith what you have said, again for different reasons, some where at the point in this history they must have returned to revans sith as what happened to the rule of two was based on that and more humanised, bringing back Sadow is just a theory, its not likely to be him any way really, there are others, but they need someone new, almost unknown a sith who surved under sadow maby, but this aint a talk page, the artical shouldnt express any fellings about sadow being this empror. btw watch the fottage on there web site, if you aint already. Alexsau1991 23:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be very disappointed if it was him. Sadow caused the Sith Empire to collapse in the first place; it would be silly if Bioware wants to make him the person who rebuilds it. In addition, I dislike how Star Wars writers believe that twists and bringing back people believed to be dead would make books or video games better. I find many of these so-called "twists" utterly predictable (and if it's not predicable, they bring them in an utterly silly way). People who you thought were dead and come back has become cliche over the years, and it doesn't feel original any more. -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 19:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

If you're referring to the IGN article, it could simply be a mistaken identity, though why would they specify him in the first place? VT-16 18:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC) I find Sadow a horrible character,plus his flagship crashed on yavin IV, not escaped into deep space, I'm wondering why people haven't thought it could be ludo kressh, I wouldn't put it past him to fake his death, again.--ArchemporerRamis 06:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
 * Although unfortantly it isnt Bioware's choice who the sith emperor, its lucas arts, althouh it still hasnt been confered that is is Naga Sadow, nore has it actually been hinted, fans have been interpting what Bioware have said into Naga Sadow being the Sith Emperor, all it is so far is speculation. Alexsau1991 17:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No one/where has actually said that it is Naga Sadow so far it is just speculation, even though Sadow never had a confermed death and it says the final leader of the sith, there is still a chance it could be someone else, its something that will be revealed in the future. Alexsau1991 18:37, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

DARK LORD OF THE SITH
As has already been said but went off the subject, sources indicate that during these other sith reigns he has above his name he wasnt actaully the 'dark lord of the sith' as his empire had colapsed he was in exile and his order of the sith wasnt the reigning order of the sith, so at that time he was leader of the sith who went into exile and not 'Dark lord of the Sith' and the other sith were. Alex1991 15:35, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Except he was the leader of the Sith... the others were appointed after him anyway Calithlin 06:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Depends on how how you would define "Sith". -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 04:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

He was leader of the sith in exile, even if he was ruler of the sith at the same time as sith like Freedon Nadd, revan malak etc, he cant have been at the same time as Naga Sadow as they both ruled the same empire, so i have removed his name from the sucsession box. Alexsau1991 14:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Both Sadow and this guy ruled the factions of the Sith formed after the collapse of the Sith Empire. They didn't know of each other's existance, nor did the Sith that were loyal to them. QuiGonJinn There's always a bigger fish. 15:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

the old republic: deceived
This is largely speculation, but could the main character in the new The Old Republic trailer (which depicts the Sacking of Coruscant) be the Sith Emperor? Or is it someone else, like Lord Angral?

Etan O'Hara 10:58, 2 June 2009

I reckon you could be right. the guy did look old, with his breather system, but he could move well for 1500. he also looked like Grand Moff Tratcha from the Betrayal comics User:1705jallen

Sourcing for dismissing Sadow as Emperor where?
I'm rather disappointed that Wookieepedia has chosen to simply overrule the possibility of Naga Sadow being the Sith emperor without any source to back it up. As I understand it, Wookieepedia is meant to be an informative encyclopedia on Star Wars that is as factually correct as possible. I may not like the idea of Naga Sadow being the Sith emperor (because it would be woefully unoriginal), but it is still what it says on IGN.

But because someone doesn't like that idea, Wookieepedia just goes on to presume that IGN was mistaken? The IGN article is a published news article, and as such presumably factual until officially corrected. There is a published source that says Sadow is the Sith emperor. Whether people - including myself, I might add - like it or not is immaterial.

And the reference to the official website making a distinction between Sadow and the emperor is indicative of similarly poor sourcing and speculation. Here's what it actually says:

"Dark Lord of the Sith Naga Sadow led his armies in an aggressive campaign to destroy the Galactic Republic. Though the Sith were successful at first, the Jedi Order rallied back to defeat their dark counterparts, systematically destroying the Sith civilization on Korriban. Unbeknownst to the Jedi however, the last Emperor of the Sith managed to escape the carnage and fled into Deep Space with his most trusted Dark Lords."

Does the official site say Sadow is the emperor? No. But IGN does. Does the official site say Sadow is not the emperor? No. It mentions Sadow as the dark lord, then proceeds to talk about the last Emperor escaping and calls him that from then on. That doesn't preclude the possibility that it's one and the same person. I've revised the "behind the scenes" bit to reflect this, because it seems wrong to just say that IGN is mistaken, when there is no source that says so or even refutes their claim. Jediphile 09:25, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there are more then enough sources in the article on Naga Sadow which state that Freedon Nadd destroyed his spirit on Yavin IV some one thousand years before TOR's timeline Gorthuar 17:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And those sources are old, while newer sources are vague on Sadow's fate. Doesn't that suggest retcon to you? I mean, look at what Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force says on the subject before dismissing it out of hand. Jediphile 12:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What the Essential Guide to the Force says, while brief, on page 163 is that Sadow traveled to Yavin after his defeat and "There, Sadow would die". It is possible he would again travel to Yavin after he is defeated as this new Sith Emperor, but don't you think that's a huge stretch? This may be a brief quote, but I don't feel that it leaves his fate very ambiguous, particularly considering all the other sources that say that he did indeed die well before 3,653 BBY, whether by Nadd's hands or not. Vangardt 21:32, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * He may die there, but that doesn't tell us when. Since there are sources telling us that he is the Sith Emperor, that provides no basis for dismissing the possibility. Whether you or I or anyone thinks that is a stretch is immaterial. Jediphile 18:53, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Are there sources saying that Sadow was this new emperor, other than the IGN article? To date that's the only one I've heard of, and the only one that doesn't leave the Emperor's identity very deliberately ambiguous. Also, as stated elsewhere on the Discussion page as well as this article itself, the Essential Atlas does depict the retreat routes following the end of the Great Hyperspace War and it has one line tracing Sadow to Yavin and a separate one for another Sith Lord retreating into the Unknown regions (page 127, Essential Atlas). The exact quote regarding it is, "Naga Sadow flees to Yavin; other Sith flee to Thule and Vjun. One Sith Lord regroups in the Unknown Regions to plot revenge." I feel an Essential guide is a more reliable source than an IGN article, particularly since the Essential Atlas was published after the IGN article. To me this clearly says Sadow and the Emperor are two different Lords. Vangardt 19:19, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * As now stated in the article, the seventh timeline video confirms that the Emperor and Sadow are two different Lords as well as the fact that Sadow was dead (while his spirit apparently remained) at least 100-or-so years before the events of Treaty or Coruscant. It is also suggested that the Emperor might see Sadow as a particular enemy, but I don't think this is stated clearly enough to be considered a solid fact at this time. Vangardt 22:24, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Take down the Naga Sadow reference!
IGN isn’t considered canon, leave it ambiguous until it’s actually sourced in the game or by someone like Leland Chee.
 * I agree. Considering that the only possible retcon that could function in the canon would be that Sadow had a clone on Yavin, Sadow as the Sith Emperor is completely impossible. The history of the Sith depends on Freedon Nadd slaying Sadow and establishing the False Sith/Usurper Line that changed the Sith from species to ideal. 63.207.224.249 23:39, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Who is he and what's his connection to Revan
In my eyes, there are many options as to who he is. Remember the end of the great hyperspace war as seen in the comics was Sadow fleeing after his spies massacred the remaining Sith Lords so he wasn't a Lord under Sadow, Kressh or Ragnos. What seems to be forgotten in this matter is the fate of Ziost (where Sadow led the republic in his retreat). Some sources state that the republic bombarded Ziost from space untill only rubble remained (explanation as to why the Sith as race died out (genocide by jedi and republic)). After that, the Republic/tetan fleet retreated and the Sith world coordinates were removed from their databanks in hope to prevent anyone from trying to bring them back (is why in my opinion Kun went to Korriban (Daragon hyperspace route led there) but not to Ziost (where the leaders of the sith during the Great Hyperspace war gathered). But what if some survived the Ziost massacre? Could be Sith children, could even be a descendant of Kressh, Ragnos, etc. (since they seemed so pre-occupied with keeping the bloodlines clean, going as far as thinking less of Sadow for his mixed breeding). Hell, in my eyes, we'll get alot of Ziost material and references to the Hyperspace war from this but to state that this elusive Emperor was one of the main leaders back then is quite ludicrous since the lower sith lords were assassinated on Sadow's orders, and sadow actually did die on Yavin (he didn't leave since his one remaining ship remained there and Exar Kun met his spirit there). Ood--81.242.101.72 12:34, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Food of thought
This is just an idea off the top of my head, but is it possible that this Sith Emperor and Emperor Palpatine might be one and the same? I was looking him up earlier, and it indicated that virtually nothing was known about his early life, and what records may have existed could've been forged in the first place. This makes me wonder just how old the Cold War Sith Emperor could live with those life prolonging rituals of his... long enough to build two separate empires maybe?
 * We do have a picture of a teenage Palpatine being trained by Plagueis. Plus, official word from LucasFilm is that Palpatine discovered that body jumping ability of his only after establishing the Galactic Empire. So no, not really. Gorthuar 16:28, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not to mention, Plagueis isn't even born yet. So no, the Sith Emperor in TOR isn't going to be Palpatine nor will it be Plagueis.Altyrell 19:43, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is possible that the Sith Emperor simply jumped bodies once again and entered Palpatine. Palpatine could have just been another host. In tying the EU to the films, it would solidify the prophecy of the chosen one if Vader defeated the ultimate evil in the galaxy. I like this theory, quite a bit.

Darth Malgus
according to the official website (http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100430_001) Darth Malgus is the Dark Lord of the Sith.Sorciri 22:02, April 30, 2010 (UTC)Sorciri
 * They sayed that this was a misundersanding and Malgus is not the Emporer. Gulomi Jomesh 22:10, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

We have a picture of what the Sith Emperor look like
On this page, we see the Sith Emperor: http://swtor.com/media/webcomics/blood-of-the-empire/act1?comicpage=15.Altyrell 14:30, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Image
Quickly added in a (pretty low quality) image of the Sith Emperor from Blood of the Empire Issue #3. I hope I did that right. ; ) --Darth Dreadwar 15:15, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I knew it, Gav Daragon, The Return !!! Maxattac 16:47, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Human?
Nothing actually says he is human, this is disputable further especally now since Rattataki has just been announced as a playable species. Here, if you look at the eyes of the Emperor and compare him with the image on that link they are pretty similar so human is by no means certain. ░▒▓ Alex | Talk  ▓▒░ 18:06, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Human is speculation. --Imperialles 18:08, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally I think we should hold off on an image, I have a feeling that this is a decoy. 65.160.192.101 21:20, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's easy enough to change if that proves to be the case. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 21:21, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think keeping it is best, also. Seems more likely that the Emperor transfers his spirit to a new host when a previous one becomes too old The Commissar 13:51, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thinking it is a decoy is not a good enough reason to hold off on an image, its obvious that allot of people are disappointed with what he looks like, but so far as canon goes this image was revealed to be the Sith Emperor so it is the Sith Emperor. Removing it because of a "feeling" is nothing more than speculation. As fodigg is is easy enough to change and it will be if we are told different. ░▒▓ Alex | Talk  ▓▒░ 18:19, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that ultimately I would bet that this is not his true self, for one I think they went to great effort in the comic to make this portrayal of the Emperor seem young, and the glow of the eyes makes me wonder if possession is at work. As much as I may think things may change, this is by far the most definite representation of the Emperor we have at this time. If or when they change it, this can be updated appropriately.Vangardt 01:48, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good that other people think the same as me :D. He must be a decoy, Bioware wouldn't be stupid enough to reveal the Emperor so soon. But anyway, will this image still be kept in the article when his true form (or another form of some kind) is released to the public? Darth Tyranitar 11:13, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * If they do change his appearance or reveal another form, this won't stop being relevant information. I don't think we'd still have it be his primary representation, but I think (depending on exactly what the deal with this human is) it would still be important to keep somewhere in the article. We'll have to wait and see what happens though. Vangardt 21:24, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Behind the scenes theories
I have heard many good theories about this character. It could be that he used 'transfer essence', to go through several bodies, or perhaps the man in the image is merely someone the emperor is controlling remotely, while his real self sits in that life support apparatus we normally see him in? It makes more sense putting these things in the Behind The Scenes than what is already there, because what is there now was proven wrong, but the two things I mentioned could be true. Look at the Kreia article, these theories are no less valid:

"Others fans believed that Traya was instead Krynda Draay"

At least note that he is away from his apparatus in the comic scene. (- -) 02:33, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Simply stated, we do not put fan theories in BTS's, and the one you cited really shouldn't be there. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 02:48, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Life support apparatus? You mean his fancy throne? Darth Tyranitar 09:34, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "He hollowed me and filled me with his strength"... "The Emperor's secret, the one the dark council doesn't know". These are canon statements. It is obvious that the emperor cannot be taken at face value. (- -) 22:12, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Realtion to Naga Sadow

 * Surely, if the Sith Emperor was a Sith during the Great Hyperspace War, Naga Sadow would have been his master. Therefore, in his infobox, it should say that Sadow was his master. --Thenorthernman 09:17, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't be sure if Sadow personely was his master or if the emporer was just a high-ranging Sith from Sadow's empire, but trained by someone else. Gulomi Jomesh 09:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * We cannot be sure of who taught the Sith Emperor. Simus taught Naga Sadow, but Marka Ragnos was the Dark Lord of the Sith at the time. Not all Sith Lords in the Sith Empire were trained by the Dark Lord of the Sith. Therefore, until more information is released, we cannot say who was the Sith Emperor's master, as there is no canon source. Naga Sadow may not have even been his Dark Lord anyway, it might have been Ludo Kressh. In fact, the fact that we do not know what happened to Ludo Kressh's armada after he was killed, while we know most of Sadow's armada was destroyed during and after the Great Hyperspace War, points towards the armada that the Sith Emperor was part of when they re-discovered Dromund Kaas being the remnants of Ludo kressh's armada. And therefore, it would seem more likely that the Dark Emperor of the Sith was a supporter of Ludo Kressh, and not Naga Sadow. However, no matter how many things point towards it, it is still speculation, and has not been confirmed in any canon. So we cannot include anything in the article until more information is released. —Obi–wan Jacobi  Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG ( Talk ) 10:33, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Immortality or hereditary title?
Is it certain that the Sith Emperor is the same individual all those millennia and not just a title? For example, how to we know that the Sith Emperor of the war was the same Sith Emperor who met Revan and Malak 300 years earlier and not his predecessor. MoffRebusMy Talk 10:30, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's been indicated repeatedly that it is the same individual. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 10:36, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt its immortality, more likely something along the lines of stasis, like Darth KraytSorciri 14:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC)Sorciri

That would be a long time to live in stasis Darth Tyranitar 14:42, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * But not without precedent. Dangerdan97 15:21, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

They didn't have an empire to run. Darth Tyranitar 15:35, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * As seen in Legacy, that's not a huge impediment. Dangerdan97 18:31, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * That was for fairly brief amounts of time. The Empire on Dromund Kaas was active for a lot longer than Krayt's order. Darth Tyranitar 18:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The point is, the evil empires presented in the past have proven to be fairly self-managing, so long as the leader doesn't set himself up as a load-bearing linchpin a la Palpatine. And at this point, how is this discussion related to changes to the article? Dangerdan97 20:11, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

We are trying to decide whether or not to note immortality, or change the title to Sith Emperor(Great War) or somethingSorciri 22:08, June 17, 2010 (UTC)Sorciri It has been well documented that the current Sith Emperor is the same one that was alive during the Great Hyperspace War. From the official site's description of the Sith Empire, "The last Emperor of the Sith managed to escape the carnage and fled into Deep Space with his most trusted Dark Lords...and undertook dark rituals which prolonged his life and his undisputed rule."Exactly what those rituals were is not stated, but may be connected to part of the description of Drommund Kaas: "Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm."
 * We don't get to make that decision, we simply document what official sources say. If the sources don't say anything on the subject, neither do we.  Dangerdan97 03:59, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I know there are other explicit statements about him being the same person, perhaps in the Timeline or the Developer Diaries, but I do not recall specifically and do not have time to flip through them at the moment. Vangardt 04:07, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Why does people think the sith emperor jumps bodies, he's immortal and he controls other people and speaks through them.

Exal Kressh is his child?
According to the leaked Blood of the Empire issue #8 (translated from German), Exal Kressh states that she is the first and only of the Emperor's children.

Source: http://www.mycomics.de/content/star-wars-old-republic-ii-kapitel-8.html
 * That's lovely, but ultimately useless&mdash;we can't use that information until the official comic is released on the official site. Also, please keep talk page discussions limited to commentary regarding the article, not the subject of the article. Thank you. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 10:05, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that it has been officially released, I think we can say she doesn't exactly mean his true child. What we see is a vision (within a vision, even) of a multitude of species that seem to be the ones she refers to as his (future) children,with species ranging from Human to Bith (ruling out clones being what she means). But, particularly since this all is revealed during a vision/hallucination, I think no meaningful conclusions can be made confidently at this time. Vangardt 03:39, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

We know how he has lived so long
Transfer essence. Look at issue 10 of Blood of the Empire http://www.swtor.com/media/webcomics/blood-of-the-empire/act3?comicpage=8

While this is talked about vaguely in earlier parts of this comic series, on the sixth page of part 10, it is very explicit.

"He wants to pour is ESSENCE into their little MINDS."... "The machines, the rituals to prepare them as VESSELS are ready."

So he's a body surfer. This article should indicate that the image of him from Blood of the Empire is just one of his host bodies. (- -) 15:55, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Essence transfer involves the takeover of a vessel's entire body, not just their mind. I'm still not convinced that these are one in the same, and won't be until it is specifically stated to be essence transfer. —Tommy 9281 18:52, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? A mind transfer implies control of body. If I poured my essence into someone's mind, would I be paralyzed from the neck down or something? This comic is explaining how he has lived for 1000+ years. He has been stated to have extended his lifespan with "Dark rituals". This is a ritual, and destroying someone's mind while body snatching them certainly dark... And it's not just brainwashing either, because she says VESSEL. (- -) 22:02, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am serious. Here on Wookieepedia, we don't go on implications, especially ones that leave a considerable amount of room for doubt. The Emperor poured his mind into Exal Kressh, and she is still in control of her own body and faculties, just as the Emperor is in control of his own body and faculties. —Tommy 9281 22:07, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Tommy. It is implied that the Emperor is using a similar technique to essence transfer to control others minds since the encounter with the Ortolans in issue #8. Then again, it could be something more similar to what Exar Kun used at the Republic senate chambers. Whatever it is, it is not explicitly stated how he does it or what it is. —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG ( Talk ) 22:49, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Kressh
Annedu (forgive me if spelled incorrectly) just seems to paranoid to be this calm, calculating Sith Emperor. He was terrified someone would learn his secret, so why would he risk it, given his very nature?

Ludo Kressh seemed to have been "castrated" too much by Naga Sadow to be a credible Emperor, but he did have some admirable qualities. I believe his son, who I wish they would name Leto Kressh (hear me bioware??), seems to be the most likely candidate. He has the same tendencies and careful approach towards the Republic.

Something in the Blood of the Empire comic, which may be nothing at all, was where Exal Kressh said that he had her searching for tribal legends, shamans who had escaped death, and "Patriarchs that lived on through their descendants."

Maybe a hint that its a family member? Why was she his apprentice? Makes sense that it is the son of Ludo, and thus a patriarch of the Kressh line. He needed her for something. And he was desperate for these legends, even though he was at this time, 1500 years old.

I may be reading in to much to the words, but I wanted to share my thoughts with you guys.

Yet it seems he is very smart. After learning these legends, he had her destroy them. Clever. And I like Leto Kressh. I vote for them to use that name!
 * Don't try to act like you're two separate people by using your IP address for your first post and your username for your second. You're not fooling anyone. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 00:00, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

I am not, but am I not allowed to vote for my own name? lol. At any rate, I now have a username, so this will be much easier.

I should have created the username before the post, but oh well. No one is trying to fool anyone. I am having a great time reading your theories and such. Keep em coming.

Another key piece of evidence in the weblogs of Jedi Master Gnost-Dural, is how those two traitorous Jedi went to Yavin IV, to seal the tomb of Naga Sadow, and make sure the Dark Lords spirit was no threat to him. If the SE was Naga Sadow, this makes no sense, but if it is the son of Ludo Kressh, then he would have a very healthy and cautious regard for the Sith who destroyed his father, and, before he did anything, make sure his #1 enemy was eliminated once and for all.
 * But there are other reasons the Sith Emperor could want to make sure Sadow's out of the way. Regardless of who he is, he was alive during the Great Hyperspace War and would likely consider Sadow a problem. Meanwhile, Sadow would possibly be hoping to find a way to continue influencing the Galaxy and interfere with the Emperor's plans. For the first time in a long time, I'm not prepared to rule out Sadow as the Emperor either. I don't think it's likely (see just about everything above on this Talk page), but clearly the Emperor operates by possessing vessels (though he could still be alive and doing this) and they set a precedent of Sadow doing that after the Jedi go to Yavin. I think it's not impossible that the Emperor could arrange their trip to Yavin as a ruse.


 * However, I think I should mention that both the Sadow and Kressh theories are speculation with very little evidence to go on, and Wookieepedia, even on Talk pages, is really not the best venue for discussing theories that are at this time irrelevant to the article without being able to provide sources. Sometime down the road when we do have more evidence that will allow us to make meaningful changes to his entry, we'll have plenty to discuss I'm sure. Vangardt 17:30, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Revan 'failed'=fan speculation?
I have a real problem with this sentence at the end of the section on Revan: "About 300 years later it was presumed that they failed when the "True" Sith finally returned and started the Great Galactic War and they were never seen again." So far as I can tell, the claim that Revan 'failed' is a presumption by fans, not by any in-universe source. Timeline 8 mentions only that Revan went out to search for the True Sith Empire, not that the Jedi expected him to single-handedly destroy it. Secondly, the claim that they were never seen again violates the SWTOR Project guideline of not putting "fate unknown" in articles, and is contradicted by the Mysteries of KOTOR video by Bioware, strongly hinting that we will find out what happened to Revan through in-game quests. JediHistorian 08:26, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Can The Sith Emperor be Gav Dargon?
Can The Sith Emperor be Gav Dargon? From the comics of the golden age of the sith

I have been reading those old comics about the hyperspace war...and you never see Gav die. Maybe he can be the sith emperor for the sith empire in Star wars: The Old republic.

It's true that he seems to help the republic in the end but maybe he had another evil plan that no one knew yet.

One more thing: In one of the timelines Naga Sadow seek revenge on the imperial angent Jedi/sith guy in the body of his old padowan. So I think it can be Gav who seended his spy to investigate the old tombs of his old master.

Anybody think the same?
 * No, because this isn't the place to discuss ideas and speculation. This talkpage is to discuss the article in question. Alexsau1991 (talk page) StupidSithEmblem-Traced-TORkit.svg 19:11, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

I think he is Gav Daragon. Nearly every influential sith figure from 5000BBY was true sith, and this emperor is supposed to be human. furthermore, he was supposedly killed within naga sadow's sith meditation sphere in solar flares, but if he happened to survive, then that could also explain the only other appearance of a meditation sphere of this design; Ship (as in Legacy/FotJ), which is quite possibly the very ship of Sadow's.

Remember, until 5000bby, the sith had been nearly completely isolated. Far removed from their ancient dark jedi visitors, they hadn't had any interaction with humans or the rest of the galaxy outside their space in millenia. There was very little opportunity to bring other humans into their fold during the Great Hyperspace war. At the end of this conflic, there really could only be one non-sith (species) who would have retreated into the unknown regions along with them.

is this guy Asian?
He has Chinese features in pic. Eddo36 23:16, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * No. There is no Asia in Star Wars.  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 23:19, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Actual Species
Why hasn't his actual species been updated yet? It is very clear that he is a part of the Sith Species. It is stated in the Revan book. The actual quote is "The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy."
 * Addressed. —Obi–wan Jacobi  Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG ( Talk ) 21:24, November 17, 2011 (UTC)