Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Confrontation in the Caverns of the Hidden One


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Confrontation in the Caverns of the Hidden One

 * Nominated by: Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 01:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: My WP:LE nom number 3

(3 ACs/3 Users/6 Total)
Support
 * 1) Nice. Keep up the good work! SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 11:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  17:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Assuming that the article will be renamed soon.  CC7567  (talk) 18:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 11:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 5)  IFYLOFD  ( You will pay the price for your lack of vision! ) 16:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 6)  Grunny  ( Talk ) 05:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Objections time.
 * 2) * First off, I don't like the way you use, in the introduction: "the duel was". Please change "the duel" to "the Duel in the Caverns of the Hidden One. The article's title should be the first mentioned name of the article.
 * 3) **It's conjecturally titled, so until it is specifically named in a source&mdash;and it was not named in Outcast&mdash;I can't put the name in the intro or body.
 * 4) * Context on the Baran Do.
 * 5) **Added.
 * 6) * "decided that it was time for him to die" - It's not immediately obvious who "him" is.
 * 7) **Addressed.
 * 8) * "Ziil struck Luke and Ben as paranoid and corrupt," - It'd be better if you could change "struck" to something else, to make it more clear.
 * 9) **Addressed.
 * 10) * More context on Ithia in the second entitled "Ben and Saal", please.
 * 11) **Addressed.
 * 12) * "Luke gathered all of the Hidden Ones into the throne chamber" - What throne chamber? Specify, please.
 * 13) **Addressed.
 * 14) * "Luke, of course, had no intention of doing so. Instead, he explained his theory to the Hidden Ones, and went on to suggest that Ben, who was barely a Jedi Knight, should duel the Hidden Ones' best fighter and newest addition, the senior combat instructor Charsae Saal, now known as Chara" - Break down into two sentences, please. Currently, it's a run on.
 * 15) **I couldn't find a good place to break this up, so I removed superfluous information that had been stated earlier.
 * 16) * "But then Ben got a blow in on Chara's head," - Could this be reworded? It doesn't sound particularly good as it is.
 * 17) **Addressed.
 * 18) * "and the Kel Dor went down." - "Went down" sounds rather colloquial. Fell down or something, perhaps?
 * 19) **Addressed.
 * 20) * "Finally pushed over the edge" - Whoa, whoa whoa. So we go from Ziil condemning them to be left without oxygen to die to him being incensed and attacking them? What caused this? Elaborate, please.
 * 21) **Addressed.
 * 22) * What happened to Ziil in the end? Please add in.
 * 23) **What happened to Ziil after the duel is unknown.
 * 24) *Not too bad so far. :) -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  20:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 25) **Thanks! Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 21:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 26) Soresu
 * 27) * You say multiple times that the Hidden Ones were "freed". This is not really the case since they were there by voluntary choice. Try using something else. Other than that, you've done a great job with this article. SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 08:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 28) **Addressed. Thanks! Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 11:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 29) Soresu again
 * 30) * Graestan made a similar objection for your Raid GA. You need to source the "Previous" section of the infobox, and hence everything else as well.
 * 31) **But this time the event is from the same source: Outcast. Do I still have to source it? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 16:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 32) ***Ah, I see. SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 23:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 33) Attack of the Clone
 * 34) *Not an objection, but a note for the future: try to avoid getting too dash-happy. Sometimes dashes just break up the sentence flow more (even though they're intended to do the opposite), and commas will suffice in their place.
 * 35) **Noted, thanks for the advice.
 * 36) * I'm unsure if this is the best thing to do, but since there seem to be two duels, can the subsection of "The duel" be renamed? I know the "stick fight" between Ben and Saal wasn't really a duel persay, but it seems to have equal value. Also, could the article itself be renamed? It's already conjecturally titled, and I don't think brainstorming a better name (that encompasses both duels) will hurt.
 * 37) **Ok, I have a couple ideas, and I wanted to get your input before I actually move the page. "Battle in the Caverns of the Hidden One", "Confrontation in the Caverns of the Hidden One", "Skirmish in the Caverns of the Hidden One". Do you have any further ideas?
 * 38) ***Battle is too major; I think "confrontation" might work. However, you might want to get others' opinions before going ahead with this, especially that of an AC or such.  CC7567  (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 39) ****Jon, just to let you know, I'm casting my vote right now. This is the only one remaining, and I'll strike it when it is fixed.  CC7567  (talk) 18:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 40) *****Sure thing. I've contacted an AC, and I'm waiting to hear back. I'll change it once I have. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 18:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 41) ******Ok, it's been changed. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 01:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 42) * In the intro, instead of stating that the duel took place in the throne room of the Caverns of the Hidden One, can it just be mentioned where it chronologically takes place in the intro?
 * 43) **Addressed.
 * 44) * "where they were allowed to speak with Ziil, who was now known only as the Hidden One": Ziil was never mentioned before except as a participant of the duel, so using "now" isn't appropriate; please clear this up.
 * 45) **Addressed.
 * 46) *** Still remains; please check again. It needs to be chronologically structured instead of being mentioned out of the blue; right now there isn't a reason why Ziil was now known as the Hidden One. Both the intro and the body need a slight mention of Ziil's recent ascent to the Hidden One.  CC7567  (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 47) ****I changed around the order a little bit, is this better? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 15:34, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 48) * Context needed for Coruscant.
 * 49) **Added.
 * 50) * "They hoped to talk with Koro Ziil&mdash;the Master of the Order who had briefly trained former Jedi Knight Jacen Solo during Solo's travels after the Yuuzhan Vong War&mdash;in order to find out why Solo had fallen to the dark side of the Force and become a Sith Lord." Dashes break up the sentence flow and should be removed, and the sentence will need rewording. Maybe say, "They hoped to talk with Koro Ziil, the Master of the Order; Ziil had briefly trained former Jedi Knight Jacen Solo...in order to find out why Solo had fallen to the dark side of the force."
 * 51) **Better?
 * 52) * In the body, it's unclear why the Skywalkers went to the Sages; the organization needs to be mentioned in relation to Ziil.
 * 53) **Better?
 * 54) * Since it's mentioned that Luke was not convinced that Saal died, can you briefly say why?
 * 55) **Addressed.
 * 56) * "Luke decided to prove to them that every minute they stayed down in the caverns their power was weakening." First of all, I changed the "he" to "Luke." Second, can you make this clearer? I get the gist of what you're saying, but rather than being an embellishment, the mention of the Sages' time in the caves sounds like it was the cause of their weakening power.
 * 57) **Is this better?
 * 58) * "When his former apprentice, Chara, admitted that he believed that the Skywalkers could be right" I edited the sentence a little bit, but this is the first time that Chara is mentioned as Ziil's former apprentice. Can this be moved up?
 * 59) **Addressed.
 * 60) * "and Ithia told Ziil that maybe the Hidden Ones&mdash;the "experiment"&mdash;had failed.": "maybe" can be changed to something less colloquial, and this part of the sentence needs rewording to make it clearer overall.
 * 61) **Addressed.
 * 62) * "As Luke got up and began moving slowly towards Ziil, holding back the flow of lightning, the other Hidden Ones were evacuating the throne chamber with Ben, who was directing them out a blast door." The way "evacuating" is used makes it sound as if the Hidden Ones were evacuating others, not themselves. Also, it's unclear if Luke continued to deflect the Force lightning even when he hit the pillar, or if he was forced to let it go.
 * 63) **Better?
 * 64) *** Actually, can it be stated why they were fleeing?  CC7567  (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 65) ****Good idea. Added. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 15:34, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 66) ***** Please check again; this looks like it still remains.  CC7567  (talk) 17:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 67) ******Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush and missed the "why". Is this better? Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 18:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 68) * "broke free" doesn't seem to be appropriate for the situation; please change.
 * 69) **Changed.
 * 70) * "as well" seems unclear where it is used; it sounds like they turned against him here and didn't earlier when they were trying to escape. If it is already stated how it is, please make it clearer.
 * 71) **Removed.
 * 72) * When the Hidden Ones return to the surface, it's unclear as to whether Ziil went with them or remained.
 * 73) **That's unknown as of now.
 * 74) *Keep up the good work from Outcast.  CC7567  (talk) 04:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 75) **Thanks! Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 11:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 76) Sorry for the post-vote objection, but could you rename the sections "The duels", "Ben and Saal" and "Luke and Ziil"? I've already changed "The duels" to "History", but you could try incorporating the purpose of what they were trying to do, respectively; i.e. "Obtaining proof" or something for "Ben and Saal", and a different creative title for "Luke and Ziil".  CC7567  (talk) 04:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 77) *Addressed; feel free to change them as you see fit. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 11:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 78) Bumrushin' the Show with IFYLOFD:
 * 79) * Give a little more context on Luke's exile.
 * 80) **Addressed.
 * 81) *...That's it. Well done.  IFYLOFD  ( You will pay the price for your lack of vision! ) 01:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 82) **Thanks. Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi beacon ) 03:52, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments