Talk:Meetra Surik/Archive5

HEY UNPROTECT ARCHIVE 4
HOW CAN WE DICUSS IF THE PAGE IS LOCKED!!!
 * http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/archive --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There is nothing to discuss. The issues of the Exile's gender have been discussed over and over again. There is no point in restarting the discussion. -- SFH 16:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And don't remove people's comments. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Brianna
Two questions: If the Exile is female, then what is the fate of Brianna? If she's one of the lost jedi, then did she die with the rest of her sisters at the Telos Academy, or did she slip away from or survive the Exile's slaughter? Jedi Wolf 3:46, 22 Octbober 2006 (UTC) That's true I suppose; I thought the murder was implied, but considering how much content is missing it's probably not a good idea to make any assumptions. For all we know Atris just wanted to tell them they had the rest of the day off. XD Master Kavar 02:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Unknown. Completely and utterly unknown as to what happens to the Handmaiden Sisters. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 19:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe in the female Exile scenario that Atris murders the handmaidens herself, to prevent them from discovering her fall to the dark side. I can't say if this happens to Brianna is well, she's not shown at all. Master Kavar 00:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The game makes no indication of this, does it? Kreia tells the handmaidens that Atris wishes to see them, and we never see the handmaidens again... however, in the male version, Kreia gives the same line and we DO see the handmaidens again. So I'd attribute it more to a lack of content, than to an implication that they were killed. -BaronGrackle 02:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Malachor
Can someone post a quote from an official source confirming that Malachor was destroyed, please.
 * What do you mean? The planet disintegrated in one of the final cinematic videos in KotOR:TSL.– 20:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

There is more than one ending. I'm trying to find out if its destruction was confirmed in an official source, for a theory I am developing.
 * In the canonical ending Malachor was destroyed. So yes, it was. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 07:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There's only two endings: Light or Dark. And since the Light Side ending is canonical, Malachor V was disintigrated as the Exile left it. It's gone. As for a quote, look here on the talk page, at the top. She is listed specifically in the New Essential as a "heroine." I don't much think "heroine" constitutes the Dark Side ending. --Scy Storm 07:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Irony
As stated by Kreia in KOTOR II, Revan and the Jedi Exile are ironically described being total opposites, namely; Revan being called "The Heart of the Force", while The Exile was called "The Death of the Force".

How is this ironic? Kreia doesn't "ironically" describe them as total opposites she flat out and plainly describes them as total opposites.(Ulicus 12:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC))
 * You're right, that bugs the hell out of me. I would change it myself if I could. Master Kavar 16:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * All an administrator has to do is take out the words "described being"..."being called"... and "was called", and then fill in the grammatical holes. -BaronGrackle 20:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think they should just remove "ironically." I don't recall Kreia ever mentioning it as being ironic, though you can correct me if I'm wrong. It's plain to see that it is NOT ironic, so if Kreia DID say it was, then we'll go with your idea, Baron. --Scy Storm 07:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think she ever called it ironic, but "Heart of the Force" and "Death of the Force" are nearly direct opposites. As Revan and Exile were major controllers of Galactic events, one after the other, it could qualify as irony&mdash;it's just that Kreia's description was not ironic. Kreia was not being ironic; they were. Grammar structure. But removing the word "ironicallly" also fixes the sentence. -BaronGrackle 15:51, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, um...I wrote that triva. I didn't know she purposely stated it as such, I thought it was coincidental. I didn't think it'd cause so much irritation, either. Sorry. --_-- Xepeyon 02:44, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Miscategorization maybe?

 * For once, this is not about the gender of the Exile. I was just wondering why the non-canon romances are placed in a non-BTS section. And personally, I think the section on Sion is stretching it, but there may be some more knowledgeable people out there than me. I played the game through as LS Female to get a perspective on canon. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 17:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the non-canon romances were in the bts section already? Oh and trust me, the Sion blurb there is completely accurate. I've checked and compared the male/female scripts myself. The female Exile even has the option of returning his feelings (or lieing that she does) just prior to their final battle. Master Kavar 21:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the "Romance" heading is at the same level as the "Behind the Scenes" heading, so I treated them as if they were separate section. Atris, Brianna, and Visas are all in that Romances section as opposed to BTS. I believe you on the Sion thing . . . but that's just about as wrong as Palpatine and Isard. Nyaaggghh. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 15:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well the Behind the Scenes section is above the Romances section, so it's inside it. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 19:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 19:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. (Sorry if i sounded rude, i was being rushed). Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 20:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No offense taken. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 01:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

New image proposal
Well, since inserting any image into the article without discussion is likely to generate a lot of heat, I'm putting the image here for your consideration. This is not meant to be used as the main infobox image, but rather as a thumb within the article text.

As I see it, Force Sight is perfect here because it obscures details away, while retaining the general idea. - Sikon 19:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC) It doesn't look too bad to me; where do you propose placing it within the article? Master Kavar 23:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC) ''Exile: During our fight, Visas did something to my eyes. ''Kreia: She did nothing to your eyes that was not already there. .I'm not sure how this would fit into canon or continuity exactly. Master Kavar 06:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC) If the picture isn't going to show detail about the character in the article, then It shouldn't be there. MPK 13:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, tbh, i don't really see the point. It doesn't igve any detail at all, and it's better of not being in the article IMHO. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like a blue blob. Bleh...-- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 20:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Should I also note that it is not canon at all? Visas casting force sight during their duel is cut content, making it non-canon. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 23:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure it is cut content exactly Redemption; the scene where Visas attacks the Exile with Force sight itself was cut, but afterwards you can talk to Kreia and the Exile acts like this scene did take place:
 * or the article for that matter. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 08:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Harbinger to Onderon?
"The Harbinger, a Republic cruiser bound to Onderon"

I thought it was going to Telos? If I remember correctly, on the logs on the Harniger, didn't carth say that the Exile must reach Telos?
 * The Harbinger was originally headed for Onderon, but it was redirected in order to pick up the Exile and bring her to Telos.– 02:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Swoop Racer
Since it is suggested that Revan participated in Swoop racing on Tatooine and Manaan (other than Taris of course); facutal evidence for this being that on Onderon, one of the citizins (NPCs, have you) will call the Exile a swoop racer and say she should go pro, so shouldn't we add that to her list of accomplishments.RushinSundaws 06:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe, I'm not sure. We could say for sure that Revan was a swoop racer because there was some mention of his exploits in TSL's, but with the Exile it's not so clear. That Onderonian may be a glitch, because I've had them say that even when I didn't race at all. Just because the player can swoop race, doesn't mean the Exile did, or even do well for that matter. Space Ball 11:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Jedi Exile/temp
Ok ok I had this idea. since we don't have a Canon ending for the game yet we should have temp pages made for certain articals reguarding there darkside endings of Kotor II. like the Exile, Hanharr etc etc Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 16:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, that's not really needed. The article kinda covers both endings as it is. Jasca Ducato 16:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the ending was canonized? The Jedi Exile was described as a heroine, and I believe there's some mention of Malachor V being destroyed, which only happened in the light-side ending. Master Kavar 05:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason it's being queried is because Leeland Chee recently said that the ending had not been canonised. (Ulicus 17:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC))
 * It is. The New Essential Guide to Droids established that. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 00:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We do actually have some interesting topics in the 'Senate Hall'- there's a good one on spelling. Find one on punctuation, and then you'll be set! Darth Maddolis 09:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Homeworld
A while ago when playing as a female, when I first went to Dantooine and spoke with Dillan (I didn't have a lightsaber at the time so she didn't refuse to speak to me), and when she asked me why I came to Dantooine, I believe an option was that she used to live there. Bao-Dur asked me if this was true, and I belive I said something like, 'Yes, but I only tended the farms' or something along those lines. I don't know if this will contribute to the article or not, but I thought I'd share it incase :).
 * I had forgotten about that; the Exile wasn't a farmer, but she did grow up on Dantooine as a child. Shouldn't Dantooine be listed as the Exile's homeworld? Master Kavar 18:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * She was trained on Dantooine, but I don't think that we have enough information to state it was her home world.– 21:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, it is very possible since the order of the planets the Exile visited aren't exactly set in stone. If Mira comes with the Exile, she asks the Exile if she was a Farmer and the Exile says yes. At one point or another, Dantooine was the Exiles homeworld. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Right, especially since we call Tatooine Luke's homeworld and Alderaan Leia's, though neither were born there. -BaronGrackle 22:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've changed the infobox to reflect this. - Sikon 07:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool. I'm glad to see this info was useful.

Cut Off from the Force
Wanted to reopen this category temporarily. I saw the discussion of this previously in Archive 4 for this page, in case anyone wanted to see where this was coming from.

Have not played KOTOR series, but article discusses the Jedi Exile cutting herself off from the force. I wanted to link this to Sever Force. Though she may not have been severed in the way Ulic-Qel Droma was, she certainly was cut off from it. Kyle Katarn also cut himself off temporarily, (says the Wook'pedia article, but I can track down source if need be). There are a number of sources for people temporarly cutting themselves off from the force. This ability should be noted on the Sever Force page, and linked to from the pages of characters who have performed it or had it performed on them. Serendipitousus 08:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC) "When you stood before us in the council chamber on Couruscant, we felt something from you, we'd never felt before &mdash; it was as if the Force had died within you, leaving you hollow. We had suspicions about why this was, but nothing definite."
 * no, we mentioned previously somewhere that Sever Force was different to the Force power used on the Eixle. I shall try to find the relevant discussion. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, it makes sense that this is not Sever Force. But it is something, which might ought to be named, and perhaps described as a weaker version of Sever Force. Kyle Katarn cut himself off temporarily, and seems very similar to the exile. What do you think about an article for a power used by those two? Serendipitousus 20:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There already is one, i've been trying to find it. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 20:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps y'all are referring to Cut Off from the Force? There is currently a vote on merging them, as some (including myself) believe the different examples are just different levels of the same power. -BaronGrackle 20:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We'll if that is the canonical name for the power, then it has reached that name purely by chance. I believe that that article was a dupe of Sever Force, and the information on the page currently reflects that. It could well be that an article by that name is needed for the Jedi Exile and Kyle Katarn. Someone with more resources than I would do well to check and see if that is the case Serendipitousus 04:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait,wait, wait. The Exile was never actually cut off from the Force. She only lost the ability to feel it. I think that the following quotes will provide ample proof:

- Kavar


 * Vrook: We did not cut you off from the Force. You were merely deafened to it, because of that last battle of the Mandalorian Wars.
 * Zez-kai Ell: The screams of countless thousands, Jedi and Mandalorians, crushed by the planet's gravity, annihilated.
 * Kavar: Their lives scream across the surface of the deat planet &mdash; and within you. To hear the Force over such pain&hellip; it is not possible. It was too much for any Jedi to endure&hellip; and it is a wonder that you did not die there where thousands perished, all those you had fought and struggled with. You cut yourself off, because you had to if you were to survive. You had hints of it on the war on Dxun. Malachor was simply the final blow.
 * Vrook: You were deafened.
 * Kreia: At last, you could hear.
 * Kavar: You were broken.
 * Kreia: You were whole.
 * Zez-kai Ell: You were blinded.
 * Kreia: And at last, you saw.
 * Vrook: When you returned to us, we saw what had happened&hellip;
 * Kavar: In you, we saw a wound in the Force.
 * Zez-kai Ell: In you, we saw the end of the Force.


 * Vrook: Yes&hellip; you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their will and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force. Within you we see something worse than the teachings of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force&hellip; and the death of the Jedi.


 * Vrook: It is not the strenght of a Jedi that you feel.
 * Zez-kai Ell: He's right. Its&hellip; all the death you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor&hellip; it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds &mdash; only to become more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?

"You are an echo in the Force, a hollow space where it has been wounded. It takes a great act of destruction to create such emptiness, but it can be done. It creates places where the Force is difficult to hear, and difficult to find one's way. And you carry it with you, always."

- Atris

– 21:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC) By the way, when was Kyle cut off from the Force? As far as I can remember, he simply stopped using it after falling to the dark side and his abilities atrophied.– 22:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC) "He repeatedly denied the ways of the Force, at one time going so far as to completely sever his own connection to it....It was after the Dromund Kaas incident that he severed the bonds with the Force completely. His motivation for reconnecting with the Force was ultimately also motivated by revenge, as he sought to avenge Ors, whom he thought killed. But even in his darkest hours there would always be some light inside him and he would spare the lives of his worst enemies more often than not."
 * So basically, the Exile did a Kyle Katarn. They both effectively "cut themselves off", but still retained their core Force abilites. And both eventually reclaimed them aswell. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, yes&hellip; basically. Although it should be noted that the Exile was only deafened to the Force and that she did not do it to herself intentionally (which explains why she remained ignorant about how, when, and why she had lost her powers).
 * In as best an answer to the Kyle question as I have, from TFA on Kyle Katarn.

Also, some dude by the handle of WildYoda mentioned that Jacen Solo was temporarly impaired in his use of the force by something Vergere did to him? If that's true, where does that fit in? Serendipitousus 00:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Who/what's TFA? As far as I know, Sentry, you're right in regards to Kyle. He *never* cut himself off. He simply stopped using it. Wookieepedia seems to be making stuff up in that regard. As for the Exile... the game is somewhat contradictory regarding what's happened to her. Part of the whole "Obsidian rushing it out of the door" thing most likely. (Ulicus 17:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC))
 * I mean, for example, in the quotes you provided, Kavar goes on to say that the Exile *did* cut herself off from the Force. So I'm guessing it went, "Death, violence, crushing destruction > Deafened to the Force > Extreme Pain > Cut herself off from it subconsciously" (Ulicus 17:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Homeworld
Why is the exile's homeworld listed as Dantooine? I don't think they ever say she was born there. Jedi master Rimsek 01:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't say she was born there. But see this talk page, above. - Sikon 01:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, ok, I remember getting that too, but she was probably talking about her time in the enclave, and didn't want to elaborate further to Dillan, because the people of dantooine hated jedi. Jedi master Rimsek 01:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Severing Kreia's other hand
Where did that come from? I remember in the game that you defeat her the first time, and she goes into her typical "I'm a videogame boss" telekenetic combat. But during that, you can bypass the sabres, and attack her directly, only to have her produce her own sabre again, and fight you again. I may be wrong, but I do not remember her losing her other hand. . .  .  .  00:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Me neither, and the first time I played I actually bypassed the 3 flying sabers to attack her directly, but she didn't draw her saber, she fought with her bare hand, so she still had it.--Petiflo 13:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If you have a game saved there, watch it again. After the first round, we don't see the Exile actually sever Kreia's hand, but we see Kreia nursing her newly emptied limb in the following dialogue. If you attack Kreia directly, she won't draw her own red lightsaber (unless this is some glitch that Elipsis found, or an XBox thing), and she doesn't fight with her bare "hand" so much as her bare limbs. It's like at any point in the game when she uses a Force power, and she extends that left stump of hers; hilarious. But at the end, they're two stumps. -BaronGrackle 21:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In-game, towards the end of the combat, the Exile servers her other hand. Play the game how it should be played and you'll see. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)