Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Black Vulkars


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Black Vulkars

 * Nominated by: Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me 22:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments:My first GAN, hopefully I've managed it.

(3 ACs/2 Users/5 Total)
Support
 * 1) -  Cavalier One [[Image:FarStar Logo.jpg|20px]]( Squadron channel ) 10:35, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) I trust that any further objections will be satisfied. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Cylka  -talk- 18:14, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, history. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 19:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Very nice. 23:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) From the Moffship of Grand Moff Tranner:
 * 2) * Remove the ref from the intro. Refs are to be used everywhere but the introduction.
 * 3) **Adressed.
 * 4) * Is 3,956 BBY as the date of dissolution specifically stated as such in a source? If not, remove it.
 * 5) **Removed.
 * 6) * "It is quite likely that the remaining Vulkars were killed during Darth Malak's orbital bombardment of the city." - Same thing with my previous objection. There should be no speculation in the article.
 * 7) **Removed.
 * 8) * Remove the links in the quote under "Viewpoint;" instead, explain who is being spoken of after Brejik's name.
 * 9) **Adressed.
 * 10) * List of known members should be sourced, and all names should be linked.
 * 11) **Adressed.
 * 12) * Nothing from the KOTOR handbook, or Labor Pains?
 * 13) **I have the former and there is only a brief mention. I don't have the latter so I don't know. Would it best to put the appearances (KotOR 3, 22 & game) in as sources also?
 * 14) ***If they're already listed as an appearance, there's no need to put them in again as sources. You should probably find someone who has access to Labor Pains and ask them if there is any new information there. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 15) ****The information from Labor Pains is minimal and redundant with what is already in the article.
 * 16) *****Very well; I'll support once the others' objections are satisfied. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 21:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 17) *I'll read through it once these objections are taken care of. Overall, it looks pretty good for your first GAN; keep up the good work. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 18) Cylka:
 * 19) * The infobox needs to be sourced correctly. I've done a couple to show you how it needs to be done. Also you can look here for more sourcing information.
 * 20) **Attempted to correct and have now wrecked the info-box without quite knowing how. I can't find why nor do I have enough time right now to fix it. If someone could at least tell me what I've done wrong it would be immensely helpful.
 * 21) ***It seems that you simply forgot to add a "}}" at the end. The infobox is a template and I'm really not good at explaining them but just check for either this problem or you may have accidentally done " ." I make the second mistake all the time, myself. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 05:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 22) ****OK, the infobox was fixed by Jaymach and/or NH. I redid the correct format using Benno in the infoxbox as an example, but I'll add it here as well: Notice the    at the end of the reference. This is done only in the infobox.
 * 23) *****All done now I think.
 * 24) * There are too many redundant ref tags in the article and the Bts needs to be sourced. See above link. If you need more help, let me know.
 * 25) **Done
 * 26) ***The Bts was done, but there are still some redundant ref notes. Please check the article again. And please make sure that the url address you are using as a reference, ends up as part of the ref list.
 * 27) ****I've taken out all the redundant refs that I could see. Have I done the url ref properly?
 * 28) *****The first paragraph of the Bts is self sourcing so no ref tag is rerquired. And yes you have. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 23:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 29) * You might want to include something about Mission saying how she swiped the card to the base from a drunk Vulkar - it further reinforces their incompetency.
 * 30) **Done
 * 31) * Also include something about that Twi'lek that used to be a Vulkar before Brejik took over. Revan meets him when they break in. He just gives more support to how the Vulkars changed.
 * 32) **Done
 * 33) * When the Mandalorians invaded the Vulkars were more into looting than anything else, according to Gadon. You should include that.
 * 34) **I had, the second paragraph in 'History'.
 * 35) ***Erk. Sorry missed that.
 * 36) * When you mentioned slavery, maybe put something in about that waitress that Revan meets in their base.
 * 37) **Got it.
 * 38) * There seem to be some linking missing, for example: Bastila's destroyed ship should link to the Endar Spire, mercenaries that Davik hired should be linked. Just check through. You'd be surprised at how many things you can link to on the Wook.
 * 39) **Done.
 * 40) ***A bit was done, but still mercenary remains and some more links having to do with swoop bike, swoop racing, swoop gangs, etc. Cylka  -talk- 22:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 41) ****Added more.
 * 42) * Add in something to the effect that Davik hired Canderous Ordo and he was good at keeping the Vulkars in line. They were scared of him, as seen during the first time Revan meets/sees Canderous in the Lower city.
 * 43) **Done.
 * 44) *Its looking good. There's not a lot of info out there about the Vulkars so you really need to put in as much detail as possible. Cylka  -talk- 02:24, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 45) The Death Note
 * 46) * The intro could use some expansion.
 * 47) **Expanded.
 * 48) ***You haven't touched it. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 17:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 49) ****It should be better now.
 * 50) *****Now it has many short, finite sentences. Try and link the thoughts together. Context is also needed for Revan and Bastila in the intro. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 23:35, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 51) ******Kindly, Goodwood has taken care of that before I even saw this and I'm happy with what they've done.
 * 52) * Key Members should include Kandon Ark and Benno.
 * 53) **Done
 * 54) * Members section needs to be sourced.
 * 55) **Done as mentioned by Moff Tranner.
 * 56) * "Many of the Vulkars were Kadas'sa'Nikto, although there were also Twi'leks, Humans, Duros, Aqualish, Rodians, Gamorreans, Ithorians and Drovians among their ranks." Should not be part of the History section. Relegate it to the Bts or the Members section.
 * 57) **Done.
 * 58) ***Moved back to main article as per Cavalier One seeing that he is AC.
 * 59) ****Alright, it can work in the Members section as well.
 * 60) * Battle of Taris needs to be linked to in the article. Link to it through orbital bombardment.
 * 61) **Done.
 * 62) * I'm sure there is cut content relating to the Vulkars.
 * 63) **The only cut content I could find is an extra level of their base which I wouldn't think should be in this article, just the base.
 * 64) ***It is relative to the Vulkars therefore you should add it to the Bts in a Cut Content subsection. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 23:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 65) ****And so it is added.
 * 66) *****And needs to be greatly expanded. As far as I know, you need to steal an engineer's uniform (Saying that initially the Vulkars had uniforms for their engineers), negotiate several robotic guards. Just dig a little deeper into the topic. NaruHina Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 17:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 67) ******I've expanded it although I couldn't find any reference to the engineer's uniform during my trawls on Google, Holowan and Filefront. The latter had a comprehensive description of what the modules cut contained.
 * 68) *******I'm not sure if you can list the file name as it should continue to be writtin from an in-universe perspective. Mention that the door to the elevator is iin the game leading to the armory and the same two droiids are guarding it, as well I know you had to get a uniform and I'll try and find the site again. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 15:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 69) ********Removed the file name part and added in the elevator.
 * 70) *********Its OK now and I'll add the source for the uniform when I find it again. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 22:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 71) * It should mention that many Vulkars fled the Skirmish at the Opener, it could be used to show their incompetence/cowardice, etc.
 * 72) **Done.
 * 73) * In the Key Members section, each character should have a self reflective quote at the head. See Kotor and TotJ Main Character sections to see good examples of this. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 05:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 74) **Done.
 * 75) ***Don't worry about a quote for Benno. He never speaks or appears. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 17:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty good, a nostalgic read. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 05:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) * The picture of Brejik is from his time as a Bek. Replace it with one from KotOR. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 14:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) **Changed.
 * 3) * In the Cut Content section: "The player had to retrieve the keycard from a Vulkar who would trade the card in return for some spice instead of from one of the members in the barracks by killing them." This makes no sense, please rephrase. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 14:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) **Rephrased.
 * 5) *You need context on why Bastila was not attacking back, how she was being kept. (The Neural disruptor)
 * 6) **Done
 * 7) *** "Bastila stated afterwards to Revan that she could have freed herself despite being restrained by a neural disruptor placed on her by the Vulkars." That she was restrained should be at the beginning of the scene, there is no mention that she was restrained at all as I can see until that point.
 * 8) ****Reordered and reworded.
 * 9) * The History needs subsections for the history befroe Revan, during Revan, and the swoop race.
 * 10) **Split appropriately.
 * 11) * "Furious at losing her, Brejik reported that Revan cheated in using a prototype accelerator in his swoop, but the head of the swoop race refused to acknowledge the move and said that the tradition was, once something was anted up it could not be returned once the race was over and that the decision could not be changed. The Vulkars then attacked Revan, but were killed by him and Shan after the latter had managed to break free of her restraint." So...Bastila killed them while restrained by a neural disruptor? Contextify her escape. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 15:10, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 12) **"...and Shan after the latter had managed to break free of her restraint." This clearly states that Bastila (the "latter" of the two [her and Revan]) killed the Vulkars after she had broken free of her restraint. I've put in an explanation of her actual 'breaking free of the restraint' if that is what you were trying to get at. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me  20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 13) ***Oh, sorry, I didn't see that in the quote. In that case, how did she help Revan with her bear hands? Expand her escape more. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]]
 * 14) ****Mmm, vibroswords...Done Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk  21:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 15) *****She killed the guard in the game, I don't remember how or I would fix it myself but that should be extrapolated. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 22:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 16) ******According to this YT video (at ~2.50, game unmodified) she escaped after freeing herself from the restraint by Force pulling the guard into her cage hence opening it then kicking the guard to the ground and stealing his vibrosword. That info has been added in. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 10:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 17) ********Good, I'll do my final review in the coming days. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 04:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 18) From the squadron briefing of Cavalier One:
 * 19) * Context is needed of who Benno, Brejik and the Hidden Beks are in the intro.
 * 20) **Done
 * 21) * One known gang incident involved some Vulkars, including Wargo and Frazznik, apprehending Zayne Carrick and Marn "Gryph" Hierogryph in 3,964 BBY, in hopes of claiming the bounty for the two fugitives, but Gryph proved able to outsmart the Vulkars and escape while the Vulkars tried to rob nearby Wookiees after believing Hierogryph's claim that the Wookiees had stashes of spice. - Context is needed on who Zayne and Gryph are, and why they have a bounty on their heads in the first place.
 * 22) **Done
 * 23) * You mention the Sith occupation, but give no mention of the end of the Mandalorian occupation, or the reasons for the Sith occupation.
 * 24) **Added info about the end of the Mandalorian occupation. Sith to come.
 * 25) ***And in go the Sith.
 * 26) * Context is needed on who Bastila Shan is.
 * 27) **Done
 * 28) * And Calo Nord.
 * 29) **And done
 * 30) * No mention of Revan breaking into the Vulkar base and retrieving the prototype? Or the fact that the Vulkar's intended to use it themselves in the race? Or that they offered Revan a deal to kill Thek?
 * 31) **Done
 * 32) * In fact, information is needed on the Vulkar Base itself - location, usage, etc.
 * 33) **Information supplied.
 * 34) * The Known Members section should be changed from a bulleted list to prose.
 * 35) ** You sure? Most organization articles I've seen have it as a list.
 * 36) ***Made into prose.
 * 37) * The information in the BTS regarding the species in the gang should be placed in the main article.
 * 38) **Moved back.
 * 39) * should be used in the article when dealing with the Kotor game storyline. -  Cavalier One [[Image:FarStar Logo.jpg|20px]]( Squadron channel ) 11:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 40) **Done
 * 41) Toprawa's Merciless Hammer:
 * 42) * The list of members is not so good. Please turn it into prose. The section immediately following it is a nice example.
 * 43) **Now prose.
 * 44) * Secondly, if you're going to put this up for review, I'd recommend removing the In-use tag to avoid any confusion. Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 45) **Sorry, forgot I left it in.
 * 46) Cylka's second look:
 * 47) * One known gang incident involved some Vulkars, including Wargo and Frazznik, apprehending the Jedi Padawan, Zayne Carrick and his Snivvian companion Marn "Gryph" Hierogryph in 3,964 BBY in hopes of claiming the bounty on the two fugitives for their alledged involvement in the Padawan Massacre of Taris, but Gryph proved able to outsmart the Vulkars and escape while the Vulkars tried to rob nearby Wookiees after believing Hierogryph's claim that the Wookiees had stashes of spice. - This sentence is a bit long. Please break it up.
 * 48) **Goodwood has already done that it would seem. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me  20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 49) * When the Mandalorian occupation ended at the Second Battle of Taris the Black Vulkars had a changing of leadership when a former member of the Hidden Beks, Brejik, joined the opposing gang. - This sentence implies that Brejik took over the Vulkars as a result of and right after the Mandalorian occupation. We really don't know exactly when he took over and I'm not sure he took over right away. Please rewrite this sentence to reflect that.
 * 50) **Again it would seem Goodwood has done that. Apparently Brejik took over in 3,961 BBY so I've included that. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me  20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 51) ***I check the source for the 3,961 BBY date and it didn't support this date, so I took it out of the article and changed the article for the date as well. There are times when you may find misleading sourcing on the Wook, so it's always a good idea to check any references yourself or ask another member if you don't have access to the material. Cylka  <font color=#00A693>-talk- 18:14, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 52) * It was the Vulkars who captured Bastila Shan after her ship was destroyed over Taris by the Sith during the Battle of Taris. This was one of the main reasons for the Sith occupation and quarantine, to prevent Shan from escaping. The Sith occupation had been enacted earlier so that the Sith could gain the upper hand in the Outer Rim against the Republic. - From what I understand, the Sith quarantine was enacted because of Shan, not earlier. I may be wrong, but please look this paragraph over and make any necessary changes.
 * 53) **And again, Goodwood has sorted this. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me 20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 54) * In the Known Members section I would like to see each of the species referenced and I think a bit more information about Frazznik and Wargo should be added. I know that they are mentioned in the History section, but maybe something more could be done to flesh them out.
 * 55) **The members have all been sourced (mostly to KotOR) with a rewrite of that sub-section. Gammoreans and Ithorians were removed because I have all the appearances (minus Labor Pains with its very minor mention) and they don't appear. Personally I think there is enough info on Wargo and Frazznik earlier in the article to warrant not needing to repeat it again in the Known Members section.
 * 56) ***Well, they were shanghaied by the Mandalorians and ended up on Jebble. Maybe you could fit that in somewhere, just to give them some closure in the articles. Or you could mention in general that some Vulkars were taken by the Mandalorians.
 * 57) ****(I swear I put this in when I edited the article...) Added in mention of their recruitment into Mandalorians. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 17:04, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 58) * And please double check the linking issues again. As I understand it, in articles each linkable subject should have one link each in the intro, main body, image caption, and infobox. I am seeing double linkage again throughout the article.
 * 59) **Okay, they are sorted properly now. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me 20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 60) * In the Bts, the first paragraph is in present tense and the cut content in past. Please change one or the other so that both will be in the same tense.
 * 61) **Though generally all text should be past tense, the tone of the first paragraph, fleshing out the results of choices the player can make, can be written in present tense. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 02:48, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 62) ***Yes, that is correct. However, my point is that I feel that the Bts would benefit from having both paragraphs written in the same tense, past or present. <span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-family: times, cursive; font-size: 16px"><font color=#008080>Cylka  <span style="font-family: times, cursive; font-size: 13px"><font color=#00A693>-talk- 19:05, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 63) ****Very well, I suggest writing the first paragraph in past tense because the second actually has to be written in past tense because the coices cannot be made in-game therefore it cannot be written in present tense. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 04:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 64) *****I agree that the second must be in past tense but it makes logical sense to leave the first one in present for those choices can still be made by a player when they reach that point in the game. To be grammatically correct (in proper, British English at least) the paragraph need be written in the past tense when it is no longer possible to make those choices at all. The cut content that would have been included was not and it is not possible for the game released in 2001 to have the content in it without modifying it from its original, shipped state so it is put in past tense. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me  20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 65) ******Since this is not a policy issue, but one of preference, I'm not going to push the issue. With a bit of effort it is possible to rewrite the statements to make sense in either past or present tense. However, I do want to point out, for future reference, that on Wookieepedia, we use American english.
 * 66) *******After looking at other non-canon choices in other KotOR articles it seems that most are in present tense so I shall leave it so in this. I am aware of the standard use of American English here but thank you for reminding. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Transmit words at me 09:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 67) *Please address these issues and I will look the article over again. I would also like to make a suggestion. Many members here on Wookieepedia ask other members for copy-editing and other opinions/help with their articles. I think that it would be to your benefit to do so as well since you are a fairly new member and this is your first GAN. It is what I did not that long ago and I found it to be tremendously helpful. <span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-family: times, cursive; font-size: 16px"><font color=#008080>Cylka  <span style="font-family: times, cursive; font-size: 13px"><font color=#00A693>-talk- 02:32, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 68) Death Note: The Second Coming
 * 69) * "When the reprogrammed former Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan, who had been trapped on Taris by the Sith quarantine, arrived in the Lower City, he sided with the Hidden Beks, believing that they could help him to find and free the Jedi Padawan Bastila Shan, who was captured by the Vulkars after crash landing in the Undercity of Taris." This is a long run-on sentence. Break it up.
 * 70) **Broken up. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 71) * "The gang was, for all intents and purposes, dismantled..." This is a bit choppy and awkward. Reword.
 * 72) **Reworded, it was a bit speculative before too. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 73) * "Gryph convinced the Vulkars to attempt to rob a nearby group of Wookiees, claiming that they had stashes of spice." And... what happened because of it?
 * 74) ** Addressed. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 75) ***So, what happens to those Vulkars later is not in the comic? NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:17, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 76) ****Nope Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 20:56, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 77) * What is the Invasion of Taris? Clairify.
 * 78) **Clarified. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 79) * "Brejik, along with numerous disgruntled Beks," I believe Brejik acted alone in leaving the Beks.
 * 80) **According to the dialog.tlk file, we have this: A lot of the younger gang members followed him, and soon he and his followers had taken control of the Vulkar gang. Brejik in StrRef 26775. I've changed it accordingly. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] Talk 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 81) * "Revan and his fellow crewman and survivor, Carth Onasi,..." Clairify who these two are. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:17, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 82) **Clarified.
 * 83) **Have fun. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 08:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

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