Talk:Meetra Surik

See also Talk:Jedi Exile/Archive.

Why the crap is the Jedi Exile a female
Seriously, what were they thinking when making the Jedi Exile canon.
 * I could ask "Why shouldn't she be female?", but the talk page is not meant for that kind of discussion. Charlii 20:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * talk pages aren't meant for this kind of thing, and to be honest your sexist crap isn't needed anywhere, talk page or discussion boards. Jedi Dude 20:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't even bother asking why. Not only do most people here think it was a good change (myself NOT included), but they aren't going to change it back, unfortunately enough. So there's no reason to complain here. (To answer your question, no I do not know what they were thinking) MPK 02:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * According to LFL, the Exile is female. Get over it already.  StarNeptune Talk to me! 02:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * JediDude, do not call me a sexist! I'm serious! I hate it when some kid over the net acuses you of being something.
 * Please, this is not a forum, whether you get it/like it or not is irrelevant to the article. If you want to voice your opinion that's what a forum is for. --Sauron18 01:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Dude, you just repeated what everyone else said.
 * Yes, because you hadn't listened. --Sauron18 01:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Obscured by a lightsaber (2)

 * 1) Ozzel 06:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) BaronGrackle 09:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) QuentinGeorge 09:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 4) As long as it's not a pic of her in her undies...  StarNeptune Talk to me! 10:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 5) Conceals her skin color, eye color, hair color etc. which have not been canonically established yet... and it's a damn nice image full of action, just the way we like it. KEJ 10:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 6) &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 12:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 7) Shinin 12:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 8) Though I woulda been fine with the first lightsaber obscuring also. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 12:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) 70.71.202.54 00:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Obscured by a Force power

 * 1) Sikon [ Talk ] 06:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) I take it we're assuming that the Exile wore these robes as well now. Jasca Ducato 08:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) Snoop 18:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Underwear 1

 * 1) I'd vote for either of these, or even for a picture of her in any clothes from the face down. I just don't like having her face clouded by some Force bubble or whatever. Kuralyov 06:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * yep, agree, but this one is better ]:-> SkywalkerPL 10:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Underwear 2

 * 1) Though I think we should remove some color. Master Starkeiller 08:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

If female Exile is canoned...
Will this article start refering to her as the canon female, like the Revan article does with the canon male preferance? And what art work will be used in the photo?


 * Sure, why not. Jasca Ducato 18:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes it will (I'll take care of that :)). However, Obsidian's promotional picture will probably be left, as it's the only known image of the Exile. - Sikon 17:01, 8 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sure someone can donate a photo (or in our case, a screenshot) (maybe myself, if no one else wants to) of a possible female Exile, and then we can edit any other article that mentions the Jedi Exile accordingly. - DAWUSS 7:19 PM 30 Jan 2005
 * If the female gender is canonized, then I'd suggest using the female face that they show in the little booklet you get with the game. Whenever they show the user in example screenshots, the face is that of a blond woman.Cull Tremayne 02:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

If that's the case, perhaps they should use the name of the female character they use in the booklet: Lysira Naris.

I like lightside male better.
 * Erm, ok. Jasca Ducato 19:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I kinda like the light side male story also cuz the story line with the Handmaiden and Atris is very interesting. User:24.209.197.137 20:45, 5July 2006 (UTC)

"Can't we just pick light side male by default until it's decided by an official source?" -MPK


 * well, apparently its confiermed as canon, hes a female :P we need to sort the article and pic out. Jedi Dude 20:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Jedi Dude: where at? Randy Starkiller 20:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Look at the bottem of this page, apparently its in the New Droids guide. Jedi Dude 20:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd like confirmation from someone besides an anon before we change anything. - Lord Hydronium 20:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * well, it looks like hes defoo a she. Jedi Dude 11:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, in the opening, Sion says that the Exile is "one last Jedi who has yet to choose HIS true role in the galaxy." Jedi Striker 22:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC) (actually added by User:24.209.197.137)
 * What opening? - Sikon [ Talk ] 08:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, dude, the opening of the game, where Sion tells, "We have all but destroyed the Jedi Knights. The Old Republic is crippled..." That opening, remember? --User:24.209.197.137, 20:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sion never ever says that. The correct line is "And now you run in search of the Jedi. They are all dead. Save one. And one broken Jedi cannot stop the horror that is to come." If Sion did say that, please give me the location and I'll look it up. Though it will prove fruitless since it might either be that you aren't setting Exile to female or the devs forgot to an extra line where he says "her". They did the samething with Revan. If you set Revan to female, the council scene will still refer to her as a male (though the holograms say different). And take the word "him" lightly, male terms are typically used when a gender isn't specified. Sion isn't going to say "him/her"... --Redemption 00:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe the user is referring to the trailer, which does indeed refer to the Exile as a male. Here is the video:


 * http://youtube.com/watch?v=A_ejqgr-7JE&search=KOTOR


 * Nevertheless, this trailer, like most erroneous promotional material for KOTOR2, is not canon.--Sauron18 01:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Not only that, but it's full of inconsistenties. The heads are all KOTOR I, M4-78 can be seen...and that isn't even Sion's voice. --Redemption 01:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The trailor also shows men as the exile almost all the time. And when u pic a character the first choice is a man. I personally think that it should remain anonomous. But If it is canonized I think we should listen to what the GAME says, not the opinion of some idiot who wrote a book.
 * Hey, guess what? Exile is female. Books are more canonical than game mechanics. Newer sources override older ones. And I really should give you a cool-off ban for calling Dan Wallace an idiot. -- Darth Culator 01:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Newer sources override older ones? So what if a book was wrote and they said luke skywalker was a Female and fell to the darkside?? Then that is what is cannon? I don't think so. Flint-007 01:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course it wouldn't override that, because movies override all things. And the Exile is canonized as female, so we have to except it. One cannot pick and chose their canon, that's movie purism. -- SFH 01:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Now you're just being obtuse. Look at the article on Star Wars canon and come back once you understand the difference between C-canon and G-canon. Within the realm of C-canon newer sources generally override older ones, but nothing overrides the movies. And player selectability is a "game mechanic," which isn't canon. Also, cannon go "boom!" -- Darth Culator 01:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * So instead of listening to the source that originaly created the damn character, we listen to what some writer wants it to be. It's the same damn thing as what I wrote above. Flint-007 01:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not the same thing. If anyone thinks that Obsidian Entertainment or any of its employees are 1/1000th as important as George Lucas, then they have serious delusions of grandeur. Hence the difference between G-canon and C-canon. C-canon gets rewritten on a regular basis, the movies do not. If Obsidian or their fans don't like the Exile being female, that's just too bad. That's the danger of working for Lucasfilm. Game developers don't write the canon, Lucasfilm/Lucas Licensing does. If they wanted the character male, they should have forced the player to be male. As far as Wookieepedia is concerned, The New Essential Guide to Droids has set the policy for us. Any attempts to change the Exile's gender to anything other than female on any article will be considered vandalism and the editor will be banned for up to a week. Attempting to argue the point will be the same as arguing with a brick wall. -- Darth Culator 02:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * First of all that ratio is incorrect because George Lucas didn't write the book. Second, it would be the same thing if bigshot Dan Wallace wrote that Kyle Katarn was a shemale. So would we all beleive that?? No. Flint-007 16:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I was using George Lucas as an example of the difference in scale between C-canon and G-canon to illustrate why your first example was dead wrong. I'm not surprised you didn't understand that. Your second example is also wrong because Katarn's gender is cemented in canon by the game storyline, which the Exile's gender wasn't. If the developers wanted the Exile to be male, then that was a pretty stupid decision on their part. The Exile's gender was canonically fixed by the NEGD. No other explanation or justification is required. -- Darth Culator 17:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * She's a she! Thatis it and that's that. And that how it is and the way it is. KEJ 16:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No, the developers didn't want the exile to have a certain gender. SO WHY DO WE GIVE IT ONE?!?!
 * It's easier to implement in novels in comics that way DAWUSS 21:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And we didn't give it one. Look, I'm not happy about giving Jaden/Revan/Exile a canon gender but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. If we just ignored that the book says "heroine" then it'd be like sticking our fingers in our ears and going "LA LA LA LA". Unless another book says that the Exile was male (and it'd need to do so very specifically considering how he is used when gender is unspecified) For now, deal with it. --Redemption 21:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Because, and that's the point people constantly miss, it's not the KOTOR II developers who run Star Wars. - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:11, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, what book are all of you talking about? The instruction booklet? If so, then that's rediculous 'cause in case you didn't notice, the book for KotOR I had the player as a female named Juhani. Yeah, not very reliable. If you're not, please tell me what you're talking about, 'cause I could've missed something... 168.103.70.82 06:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, nevermind. I see. 168.103.70.82 06:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok I was playing KOTOR II TSL and came here to see what was canon. I personally do not care what gender but I found this. Taken From: http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-2/534268p1.html as well as KOTOR II TSL

As KOTOR II TSL begins, music begins to play as the LucasArts and Obsidian logos appear, then fade into black. An ominous voice starts a voiceover, "We have all but destroyed the Jedi Knights,"

"The Old Republic is crippled, they can do nothing to stop us now."

"But there is one thing standing in our way,"

"One last Jedi, who has yet to choose "HIS" true role in the galaxy."

"If "HE" joins us, on the path to darkness,"

"Those who fight alongside "HIM", will follow,"

"But if "HE" takes the path of the Jedi,"

"those that join "HIM" will feel the vengeance of the Dark Side." Darth Aeonz 00:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Too bad that doesn't hold much considering thats two years old while NED is only a couple of weeks old. The latest one decides it. Just accept it and get on with your lives. --Redemption 00:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Easter egg?

 * An easter egg exists when using the random name generator where the name Lann Darth is available.

Could anyone explain why this is an easter egg? "Darth" as a last name may be peculiar, but I'd hardly go so far as to call that an easter egg. Is the name supposed to resemble a better known one? 82.92.119.11 14:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

lawn dart? 202.137.25.70 07:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Canon Male
Who keeps changing the whole article up to a female? Lightside male is the canon for the jedi exile jeez. Someone should clean the thread up later.
 * You really haven't been paying attention to the "thread" up there, haven't you? -- SFH 04:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Dude, have you not been following the events of the last few days? Or are you just being obtuse? Look a little ways up the talk page, or buy a copy of The New Essential Guide to Droids. They changed the Exile from a hero to a heroine. There was a note embedded in the page source which explained this, and you deliberately ignored it. I am required by the terms of that warning to ban you for a week. I've reverted your edits and I suggest you be a little more attentive when you come back. -- Darth Culator 04:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm confused, could someone explane to me what is going on? Darth Xarcon 12:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * To put it simply. The Exile is feamle. Jasca Ducato 17:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Realy? Thats strange (at least to me!), because in the game the gender of the Jedi Exile may very. And last time I checked, the game came out before The New Essential Guide to Droids. Darth Xarcon 1:10, 5 July
 * True. But canon is usually the most recent and NEGTD is the more recent one. Unless a comic, book or otherwise declares Exile male, then it's sticking to female. --Redemption 18:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Excately, think about it. We don't obey laws set out 5,00 years ago before those set out 5 years ago, do we? Because the NEGD came out after the game, the NEGD sets the canon. As for the game having mutiple choices, thats just game mechanics. In canon, there has to be a set continuity that is followed, otherwise the galaxy will blow up! Jasca Ducato 18:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point. Darth Xarcon 1:34, 5 July 2006

Female!
This news made my day DarthMalus 04:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Meh. We don't need a female PC for TSL just because the first one was male. Too bad the lack of need doesn't change anything. -MPK

Well, MPK can you start signing your posts right. if you do ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces it does it for you. and having a female chracter helps to bring more balance to the canon community + more females may be entiched to start playing games if they know women are having there share of parts to. Jedi Dude 16:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The vast majority of people who play this game are males, that leaves many people ver angry. It's all because of this "women's rights" stuff. What do they want next? The right to vote? Ignoring the trollish comment above, I'm just going to say that people should just deal with it, you don't have a problem with Mara being a female do you? Or Leia? It's no different, except you didn't know what it was in the beginning. --Sauron18 00:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Vast majority? Do you have statistics? Most KOTOR fan fiction writers are female, for all I know. And why do you oppose the women's rights movement? Alert! Alert! We have a sexist here! - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you live, but women have had the right to vote in North America (don't want to speak for other countries) since the early 20th century. o_O  StarNeptune Talk to me! 05:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally, I thought that Revan was far more interesting as a woman and the Exile's story made more sense as a man, but unfortunately none of us own those characters and Lucas Licensing has the last word on the subject. I'm just happy that one of them is officially female. There just are't enough strong women in Star Wars...-- Sentry &#91;Talk&#93; 06:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Bah, the Exile was male, they just wanted to keep someone happy. Everyone knows it, I don't care what the Essential Droid Guide states, the Exile is male. Some of us wish for a black or asian main character and it doesn't happen.--Lark
 * Apparently the idiot who made the New Essential Guide to Droids thought that we need a female main character just because the KOTOR 1 one was male. MPK 02:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what did you just call Dan Wallace? I didn't quite hear. And if you assume that it was his sole decision, you're fundamentally wrong. - Sikon [ Talk ] 06:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Last time someone did that (a little bit back up this page), I said I should have banned him. We need an explicit policy on that. Insulting authors=bad. Questioning authors or disagreeing with authors=good, but insulting is bad. -- Darth Culator 11:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I apologize for saying something you don't agree with. Perhaps I will keep opinions of mine that are not popular with others to myself in the future. -MPK 18:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It is LFL's decision, not just one person's, and it's official, whether you like it or not. Criticizing it on a talk page is both useless and inappropriate. And Remember:


 * "Freedom of the press is not a license to slander." --Sauron18 19:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

why bother about the Picture so much?
Just state that "in the course of time a lot of confusion around the true look of the knight known as "Jedi Exile" has been created, so the approvedly female Jedi often is shown in variying skin colors, looks and even - genders".

Thats meeting the "facts" nearly correctly and even covers the promotional pictures, package design etc... --18:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see a reason why we need a picture at all if it won't show the Exile's face. A picture is supposed to show what a character looks like. By hiding the face, the picture does NOT show what the character looks like, which is what the picture is supposed to do. -MPK
 * I have to agree. I get just as much information about this character by looking at a picture of a faceless female body in jedi robes as I would from reading that she is a female jedi.  It just doesn't seem necessary; especially considering how much it's being changed and argued over.  If the image is illustrating something else relating to the exile, such as a notable encounter, then I'm all for a picture that shows that while obscuring the exile, but the profile picture seems like it's only feeding disputes without providing me any new information. the Ash lad 17:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I would suggest either no picture at all or a picture showing varied possible appearances for the Exile - male and female. 11:44, June 29 2006

I don't think we need to bother with worrying what the Exile's class is, since it's just a game element. -MPK 18:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * well, your first comment anon with 'genders' is wrong, the exile is female, thats now a fact. A picture is needed, not a picture with several different parts, a normal profle shot, but to do this we need to hide the customised part of the character, in this case the face. (We use the blue lightsaber and robes because of flashback)Jedi Dude 16:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * What flashback shows that she wore these robes and used this lightsaber while fighting Darth Traya in the Trayus Core? 'Cause if there is such a thing, I might change my vote. [[Image:Animated Sith.gif]]  Master Starkeiller talk
 * Well, we know she fought in the Trayus Core. We know at some point she wore Jedi Robes (Jedi Trials flashback) and the lightsaber is just the default lightsaber if you do not answer Attons questions on your lightsaber. --Redemption 20:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there no part in the game when she's just wearing a face masking hood like Sidious? This would be best IMO --Sauron18 16:40 30 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, my objection is that we don't know about what she wore while on Malachor and the picture shows her wearing Jedi robes on Malachor while for all we know she could be wearing a kimono and gym shoes. That's why I voted for a Peragus underwear picture. [[Image:Animated Sith.gif]]  Master Starkeiller talk
 * as redemption said, there are circumstances in the game where we see perhaps, a big perhaps what the exiles robes/saber color is. thats what we need, i know its a big perhaps but its better than having a strange pic...or a underwear pic. not agreeing with ppl saying its wrong and stuff, i just don't think for an article this importent its enuff. tis all Jedi Dude 23:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well these pages have sported Modded pictures before,usually attributed as such, just find a mod that give you a face conceling robe, not unlike the one Kreia wears for most of the game. As for Saber colour Such things will be solved in time, eventually a canon class and colour were found for Revan so this will be dealt with as well. I prefer Yellow (Sentinel). It's a good short term choice to settle on since they have the greatest amount of skills, and thus ability to exploit some of the game's deeper secrets. IMOHO.-- BHRamsay 11:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter. We can't just "assume" the Exile was a Jedi Sentinel. The Exile thats the main picture now is just the default Jedi Exile. --Redemption 11:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * While the CSG ranks are (now) canonical, their correspondence to lightsaber colors isn't. Exile's lightsaber color means nothing. - Sikon [ Talk ] 12:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What does the exact opposite of the model LFL used for publicity?? In other words, the promotional male exile is in the game, which is his opposite? The female version of that one? --Sauron18 15:12 01 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Male Promotional is skin PMHC01A. PFC01A is actually, the female head blocked off in the screens I took. Brown poneytail, funny looking face. Of course I don't think that holds much. --Redemption 22:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * True, but that would be the best guess we really have. --Sauron18 18:08 01 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Is this the one which is the counterpart of the promotional male?


 * http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5623/fexy5ma.jpg


 * If not, could you look here and show me which it is? --Sauron18 07:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, the manual uses three female heads, most of them this one (the only one used in an in-game closeup of the Exile). There's one instance of this and two of this. - Lord Hydronium 07:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * WARN about BMPs, for sanity's sake! Or save them in normal formats. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry; those aren't my images, but the ones linked above. I wasn't even paying attention to the format. - Lord Hydronium 09:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why don't we post all the faces here and have a vote, like we did with the faceless images? Worrying about covering the head is pointless IMO DAWUSS 23:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Because I already took care of covering the face. =P --Redemption 00:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

HOLD ON!!!
Everyone is going on about how the Exile is now female. But if i remember correctly we previously had an arguement on this page regarding whether or not we sould add Sith to the infobox. Part of the evidence to support this was a link to a post on the starwars.com forums by Leland Chee;

 ''"...Holo-cron and crew hadn't made the decision on which ending/gender was canonly correct. I just wanted to know Vips, do we know yet? 

Not yet.

While an Exile gender determination is imminent, there hasn't yet been a call to determine which ending is to be considered canon."

This was posted on the 21st February 2006. Now my question is, was the New Essential to Droids printed before, or after the 21st? Because if it was printed before then i'm sorry, but we can't consider the Exile female! Jasca Ducato 09:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * We've known that the official gender chosen would be female since around April (I think Chee said it), but until it was canonized on print we wouldn't do it. Either way, the NEGD was released June 27, Tuesday. --Sauron18 04:34 02 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Does it matter? Only the release date does. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What? Anyways, it's official, that was the point, so this point has essentially been adressed.--Sauron18 04:40 02 July 2006 (CDT)
 * The point is Sauron that, if it had been printed before 21 February then we would still have to consider the Exile male. Jasca Ducato 17:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And my point is, February was a very long time ago, both the book and the decision to make it female were "recent" in comparisson, that's all I was saying. --Sauron18 12:15 02 July 2006 (CDT)
 * No, Jasca Ducato, we wouldn't. Because Leland Chee's comment is just that, a comment, and the NEGD is an official source. Also there's no way Exile's gender would sneak in without Lucasfilm's approval. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you even pay attention to what other people say? Jasca Ducato 18:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter anyway, since NEGD was released AFTER that statement. So said statement is now nullified. Besides, I believe whichever VIP it was who was campaigning for the Female Exile thing noted, a coupla months ago, that the gender would be set in a forthcoming publication - Kwenn 18:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Alignment
The Exile is described as a heroine in the NEGTD. Malachor is said to have been destroyed; this only occurs in the light side ending. The canonical ending is, therefore, light side. - Lord Hydronium 09:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC) "..Holo-cron and crew hadn't made the decision on which ending/gender was canonly correct. I just wanted to know Vips, do we know yet?" "Not yet." "While an Exile gender determination is imminent, there hasn't yet been a call to determine which ending is to be considered canon."
 * Yea, but the Exile was described as a hero in previous books and look how that turned eout. Look at the archived history of this talk page and you'll see. Jasca Ducato 09:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it turned out that it was confirmed in this book. I fail to see how that negates it.  And that doesn't address the Malachor point. - Lord Hydronium 09:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hero can also be used for female beings, and thus causes no problems. The Exile is female and was a light sider. If you attempt to revert the page a further time then you will be breaking the three revert rule and I will be forced to ban you. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, no i will not be breaking the three revert rule, because my reverts are correct. It doesn't decide whether the Exile was light side or dark side because, as Chee has said, it has yet to be decided and "will not be decided in the near future" (i think that's it). As for Malachor, i don't have a clue what your talking about! Jasca Ducato 09:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Jasca, I'm afraid you're incorrect. This clearly establishes the Exile as LS. QuentinGeorge 09:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

- Leland Chee

While I want to see an LS Exile, I think the word "heroine" isn't sufficient. I previously thought that the NEGD proved that Exile was LS by confirming that Malachor V was destroyed - something that only occurs in the LS ending - but now it seems that there's nothing in the book said about its fate, except that it was the place where the HKs destroyed G0-T0. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC) Can someone clear up EXACTLY what is said in the NEGtD in regards to information that could indicate alignment? anon 05:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There you have it, the Exiles alignment has not been determined. No i would revert it again but seeing as you'd proably ban me for illegal reasons i will not, unless it isn't done soon. Jasca Ducato 09:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It was to be decided in the future, as it has now in the New Essential Guide to Droids. You will be breaking the three revert rule and I will ban you, as your edits are based on old, false information. Additionally, the NEGtD states that Malachor V was destroyed...this happens only in the light side ending, as the planet survives in the dark side ending. More proof that the light side ending is correct. As I have said...change it again, and I will ban you. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Show me a quote saying it was to be decided and i'll relent. But until then... Jasca Ducato 09:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The VIP's at that time said "not yet" and that there "hasn't been a call yet". That statement, however, was several months ago, before the New Essential Guide to Droids was published. As it has now been published, and the Exile is called a heroine, she is now a light sider. Try asking the question to the VIP's again, and I guarantee you that they'll say she was light side now. And once more, you have failed to address the Malachor V issue. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 09:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As for the Malachor V issue, if the book supports a LS ending (which doesn't make it canon, seeing as they called the Exile a male in previous books) it would say that. They're not stupid enough to put contradicting infomation in their workings. They're not gointg to call the Exile a hero of the Republic and then say that she wen't on to become DLOS! are they? Jasca Ducato 09:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And if what Sikon just said is anything to go by then we cannot hold the book in any contempt whatsoever. Since, if i remember correctly, the HK's engaging G0T0 was removed from the final game, and thus not canon. Jasca Ducato 09:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's in the book, it's canon. The book itself establishes canon. - Sikon [ Talk ] 09:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Romance
Since this has been canonized should we add a section on her love life like Revan's page. "Already you presume much."
 * Love with whom? Atton or Mical? Or maybe neither?

- Kreia

- Sikon [ Talk ] 11:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We don't have enough info to determine what is canon but i bet we will when kotor 3 comes out --Dumac 18:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it should have the romance side of when your a male, too. - 70.71.202.54 01:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Then go for it. I wrote the Carth romance in the Revan article. Should be fine as long as you state that it's not canon. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 01:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Categories
Where did the article categories go?? MoffRebus 15:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? They're still there. - Sikon [ Talk ] 15:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Companions
Now that the Exile's gender and alignment has (finally) been canonized, who are her real companions? We know that Hanharr is definitely not, but what about Brianna/Mical? Does this mean that the Handmaiden simply didn't go with the Exile? This is really only an in-game device, but still...maybe the Companions Templete should be changed.
 * I wouldn't be surprised if the storyline is retconned in the future in order to make Brianna a member of the Ebon Hawk's crew since her presence does not actually cause any continuity problems and she is rather popular. But for now, I guess that she officially played no significant role in the Exile's campaign...-- Sentry &#91;Talk&#93; 22:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I still treat her as that same somewhat interesting, mostly useless until you Jedi-ize her, lovestruck ho she always was.SithPower 01:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Canon Ending
Has Leeland Chee determined anything about a Canon ending for KOTOR II. just wondering
 * Nope. Though NETD suggests LS. Considering Malachor V is destroyed and the Exile is referred to as a heroine. --Redemption 21:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it'll be LS, plus it'll be easier to explain places like Dantooine which are supposed to remain dead in DS ending, not to mention the state of Telos the time we see it after K2 DAWUSS 21:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Quote?
OK, before I even get to the point, I want to say that I do not want to cause a 10,000 line debate about something small like this. I PROMISE this has nothing to do with the gender of the exile because we have seen that 9.9*10^37 times already.

What does anyone think of the quote (from Kreia)

"They look at you and see the death of the Force. I look at you and see the hope for the Force."

Apologies if this quote is slightly incorrect. I don't have the game screen in front of me and am relying on my less than perfect handwriting. I'll update in a day or so with the *perfect* version.

Atarumaster88 18:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC) "When I look at you, it is like staring at the death of the Force."
 * Whoa...way wrong.

- Kreia

--Redemption 00:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Gosh darn it! This is not what I am looking for- but I'm going to have to find the exact quote from the game- which means more talking to that old hag. Thanks anyway redemption.

Atarumaster88 14:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the quote you're looking for is from Disciple, and it reads: "And where they look at you and see the death of the Force, I look at you and see hope for all life." - Sikon [ Talk ] 14:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

That's it! Thank you Sikon. Now that that's settled, does anyone think it's a decent quote?

Atarumaster88 16:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I certainly do. Please don't put your signature on a separate line. - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem. Atarumaster88 17:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * So . . . what should we do now? Do we change the quote? Do we do nothing? What is the will of the community? Atarumaster88 14:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's been a few days- I think I shall the change the quote and someone can change it back if the community does not like it. I am taking responsibility for this one. Atarumaster88 15:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Well, the quote was removed by Redemption. I understand three quotes is too many, but I still think Mical's quote is better than either of the two quotes. I don't seem to get much response from the talk page though. Atarumaster88 14:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * For a general "catch all", summing up the character, your quote is better as it cuts to the core of what makes the Exile "unique in the GFFA". So what if someone removed it? Just put it up again. Having two quotes at the top just looks ugly, much like with the Revan page.


 * Having said that, just a quick correction, the actual quote is: "and where they look at you and see the death of the Force, I look at you and see the hope for all life."


 * Though it could be "Whereas they...", I only remember the last sentence properly... I think. (Ulicus 04:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC))
 * It's definitely "and they", I'll look at dialog.tlk to see if "the" is present. - Sikon [ Talk ] 06:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The quote is in place- there might be a word or two off. My previous mistake was leaving the original two quotes. That problem has been dealt with. Atarumaster88 14:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, just read through this entire section properly - looks like Sikon had already corrected the quote. Oops! Sorry guys. I just get a bit over zealous sometimes :) (Ulicus 14:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC))
 * No big deal. We all make mistakes. Atarumaster88 14:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Having finally played through the game, I must say I agree this quote fits the best. When I played as a male, though, Visas had this line. Does the Disciple say it if the Exile is female? -BaronGrackle 09:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The quote was my idea. Yes, Disciple says it if the Exile is female. Whenever you get that final "romance" scene toward the end of the game, for a female, Mical says it to the Exile. I played female, but I saw the male version also at that scene and Visas said it to the male Exile. As the female Exile is canon, the quote is attributed to Mical. Atarumaster88 12:59, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Exile as Knight
On Wikipedia, it says the Exile is a Jedi Knight now, not a padawan. Not a big deal, but I thought it could be a quick change. User:24.209.197.137 23:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * she was a padawan...Jedi Dude 17:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, my friend, I have played the game numerous times and not once does it say anything about the Exile being a Padwan before, during, and after (KOTOR II) the Wars. If you show me specfically in the game where she is a padawan, I'll agree, but for now, Wikipedia says she's a Knight.  User:24.209.197.137 22:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Amazing
Its amazing how much time you all waste discussing the sex of one character, does it really matter what sex the character is? I mean it all depends on the player. Thats just my thoughts on it. Jobe457 17:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't believe you wasted precious seconds of your life to tell us that. -- SM-716 [[Image:716chiss.gif]] talk? 17:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it DOES matter what a character's gender is. There has to be a specific canon status, no matter what.MPK 01:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it does matter. Some want the Exile to be Male and others want to be female. Realize that I am not the fool Larkin above, please, and thank you. I don't care but the beginning in KOTOR II is specific but this new book makes such a big deal of it... General Larkin 8:16, 19 July 2006 (EST)
 * Actually, it's almost impossible to discern the gender of a character when someone says "him/he/his". True, they could say "Him or her" but that just doesn't sound good or proper. When the gender isn't specified, properly, him/he/his is used in place. The book doesn't "make a big deal" about it. If anyone is making a big deal, it's the people who want Exile to be male. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 03:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Atarumaster88 14:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Geez. Can we say beating a dead horse? If you need to see every possible angle of the Exile gender discussion, there is plenty of it to go around on this talk page and on the archive. The issue has been pretty much resolved by different users and admins.


 * What Atarumaster88 said. LA said Exile is canonically female. The books say she's female. If you wanna go and write a story where the Exile is male, go for it. No one's stopping you. Just, for god's sake, shut up and deal with the fact that no one cares. K2 wasn't the best game in the first place...
 * If you don't care, it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. - Sikon [ Talk ] 02:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Protect this page from ALL users?
Apparently just blocking unregistered or new users isn't doing much to stop the vandalism done to this page. Just shield this article for awhile and save the trouble of having to revert it several hundred times whenever there is a vandal. -- Redemption Talk 22:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's tempting, but there are other people who edit this page for good reason. -- SFH 22:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Give it a two day warning before closure for people to make finalizations on the article and then shield it then. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * FWIW, this last stretch of vandalism seemed to be a single person using an open proxy (which I blocked), so it was probably a repeat vandal obsessed with wiki disruption rather than a fanatical belief that the Exile was a guy. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk)
 * And an open page which is controversial among fans is like dangling a piece of meat in front of a starving lion. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But if we locked this page, he'd just go on to other pages. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 22:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not just to protect it from vandals. It's a combination of people who honestly think the Exile was a guy and idiotic vandals. We know that the Exile is a prime target. Might as well secure it. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * i think to face the truth protecting one page won't help, the vandal will hit elsewhere, the exile page is one of those pages constently being improved, we just have to overlook the negative edits Jedi Dude 22:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC) 22:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But really, how much more information are we going to get on the Exile? Perhaps a little something from the comics (once a month) but that's unlikley. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * but theres ways to improve an article, no matter what, specially an article revolving around an importent chracter, Jedi Dude 22:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That's why I say give a day or two forewarning before actually shielding it. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * it doesn't work like that, if people right now knew what they wanted to do to improve it they hopefully would, ideas come over time so you can't just expect people to be done with an article already. Plus any new users could be frightened of if they see articles like this blocked, it simply isn't worth the hassle. Jedi Dude 22:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If someone dares to protect this article, I will spam the talkpage with goatse links. (Okay, not really...) - Sikon [ Talk ] 17:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * so the article got protected? its kinda of weird how the person who did it didn't take our views into account... Jedi Dude 14:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's just the anon-protection that has been active for some time. Charlii 15:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)