Talk:Satele Shan

Origin Speculation
Looking over the recent edits and reverts, I wonder whether the article should not have some text regarding Satele's origin. I can understand the need to have only confirmed information and fighting against possible fanon. However should we not introduce the possibility of speculation? PointGiven 19:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Is it confirmed anywhere that Satele is a direct descendant of Bastila? I've seen nothing to that point as of yet. On the topic of speculation, though, it's compelling to wonder about who Bastila has children with, especially with Revan canonically male...Blackhawk003 06:25, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We generally discourage speculation here.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 20:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, no one has claimed that Satele is a direct descendant, just that she is a descendant. In the web comic, Zym says "Regardless of her heritage..." and Dar'nala says "She does have the gift Master Zym, just like Bastila did." I think this is enough for us to be able to say that she is descended from Bastila Shan. Cylka  -talk- 08:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Is it confirmed her surname is Shan? Being a descendant of Bastila doesn't mean that... in fact it kind of makes it less likely since usually the child of Bastila will hold the surname of the father.124.169.62.192 05:18, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * She's called it in the comic, yes. - Lord Hydronium 05:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not enough evidence to say that she was directly descended from Bastila. Who says Bastila never had siblings? No one. We can say she is a descendant but not directly. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 00:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no such thing as an "indirect descendant". Descent is by definition a direct thing. - Lord Hydronium 03:28, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It would appear as you were right through a quick definition search of "descendant". Damn. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 03:41, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not definite that Shan would only come from a male sibling. If the father left the family or died early, Bastila could have decided to change the child's last name to Shan PointGiven 00:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How did they keep the last name Shan in the family for 300 years? I mean it is possible, but very unlikely. TrandoshanMan01 14:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you think Revan was responsible for this? There's no other way Bastila could've had a great-great-great-great-great etc. granddaughter. Or could it be that Bastila had a brother or cousin with the same surname? 68.9.34.132 13:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I honestly think that the fact that she needs to be noted as a relative of some kind to Bastila, if not a direct descendant, although I am more inclined to believe the second, but not necessarily put it into the article.. If she were the great-great-great-great-great niece of Bastila or something, it would perhaps be noted but not emphasized as it is. Anyways, I think the father could be Carth, as she was not pregnant or didn't have a kid (as far as we know) in KotOR II, but it's possible that this is a new concept and they will just say that she hid the kid or something. Revan is still possible as Bastila is a woman and Revan has no confirmed surname, so Bastila's surname of Shan name would still be used for the child. This is further supported by the fact that Baras remarked that Angral's actions against the Supreme Chancellor nearly got him killed, and the only person in the room making any effort to destroy the Sith was Satele. Bastila and Satele also have very similar phenotypical features. At this point, I would write that she is a relative in of Bastila in the main article, as that is almost certainly undeniable, but I would not say for 100% certain that, at this point of time, we can conclude that she is a direct descendant. I would only say about 90%, and we need absolute certainty. 18:31, 5 June 2009 (UTC)Cjh37

I know that it needs to be confirmed, but if you were a developer would you make her descended from Bastila or say Billy Bob Shan?--Beleron 03:49, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * All I know is that if Satele is a descendant of Bastila, the creators of TOR better make it so she is Revan's descendant as well. If Bastila had a kid with anyone else, I think a lot of fans would be pretty upset.

Why does there have to be a father? Its not like we havnt seen that kind of birth in the star wars universe before... Jlryan 08:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

She has not been confirmed to be the descendant of Bastila yet. It must be explicitly stated before we can say that and all that has been released is that she's a descendant of one of the main characters of KotOR and that her last name is Shan. She could just as likely be the descendant of Canderous, Jolee, Saul, Malak, Revan, or any of the other main characters. Just because her last name is Shan does not auotmatically make her a descendant, it's the same with Deena Shan. NaruHina Talk  01:50, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Except in case with Deena Shan fans have asked Randy Stradley if she's related to Bastila and he said she's not. Here, we have Satele's surname being mentioned in context of "heritage to Bastila" and even game developers have said that we've met a descendant of a KOTOR main character in a comic. They said is not as a hint "hey, some of those guys is related to somebody from KOTOR!", they say it as given because any fan with one brain cell will make obvious connection from Satele to Bastila. And frankly, having a descendant of Ordo, Karath or Malak having a second name Bastila and being a member of the Jedi Order is a little strange, no? Especially given the line "Satele has a gift... just like Bastila did". We should really stop ignore the obvious.  Mauser  Comlink 02:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless of Deena being confirmed as not a descendant, the point is that she couldn't be confirmed as one just because of her name. Saying that she has a talent for Battle meditation like Bastila did can simply be her comparing Satele to a famous Jedi Knight with the same circumstances. To be blunt, one of them having a descendant with the same surname is no stranger than the "Shan" name staying with the family for 300 years straight. Until it is blatantly stated that "Satele Shan is the descendant of Bastila Shan," we really shouldn't even post the bit about the speculative connection between the two. As well, it is not stated in that interview that she is Bastila's descendant either so you can't keep sourcing it to that. They may have said that Satele is the descendant of a KotOR main character, but nowehere does it say that it was Bastila in the article. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 06:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You keep denying a fact that is obvious to everyone else, you realize that?  Mauser  Comlink 07:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not "obvious" to everyone else. It's deemed "likely" by everyone else, actually including me, but until it is definitely confirmed, it's still speculation and therefore against the rules. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 07:57, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Peeps were guessing who the father was and how it couldnt be revan and that they would be mad if it was someone else. Was giving another option. Wasnt screaming "change the article" just was tossing in some food for nerd banter. Jlryan 08:02, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This page is for discussing changes or improvements to the article, not for speculating about who's the father. Your discussion is and was off-topic so please stop. Also, I started a new conversation, separate from yours, the bullet is only there out of habit. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 08:14, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

dont be so anal Jlryan 09:19, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be off-topic. Also, civility is a policy and you just broke that one too. Continued rule breaking can result in a ban from editing. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 09:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to argue with NaruHina here, that the speculation that Satele is related to Bastila is just academic for now. I know that Deena Shan is not related to Bastila so why should Satele be. Just because they have the same surname is not a good enough argument, look at all the Star Wars movies. The surname Antilles is used three time for three different men who are not related and one of them (Wedge) isn't even from the same planet as the other two. Satele having the ability of battle meditation doesn't prove her relation to Bastila either, in 300 years there could easily be someone else with the ability. Granted with in 300 years two females with the same surname with said ability is unlikely but not impossible. I personally believe that she is kin to Bastila and that the child Bastila had was with Revan. I mean the message Bastila lift with T3-M4 didn't say when she recorded it and for all we know Revan left to fight the True Sith before Bastila found out she was carrying his child. She may have had the child by the time she meet with Carth after the Battle of Telos IV. Again I agree with NaruHina that we need all the facts before the article can say that Satele is Bastila's descendent. --JMasterWor 23:01, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * We now got a 100% sure proof for her beeing a direct descendant of Bastila Shan: here. Gulomi Jomesh 13:53, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

More Speculation...
As far as speculation goes, has it ever been mentioned in the comic that this "gift" is battle meditation? I know it would make sense for it to be so, but it hasn't ever been seen in use or mentioned further then the initial comment by her master.Bvdrunner 22:16, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Bvdrunner is absolutley right, there is no mention of battle meditation in the webcomics it is only refered to as a "gift" and only once is it refered to at all. It does say that her "gift" is like Bastila's but it never gets specific as to what that "gift" is. --JMasterWor 13:27, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Even More Speculation

 * This is just some more of the seemingly endless specualtion. Could it be possible that she is a decendent of both Bastila and Revan? It's stated that it was a long time before Revan went looking for the "true sith" so could it be possible that Revan may have gotten Bastila pregnant in that time? After all at the end of the game they were madly in love with each other. jedi_master425 November 21, 2009

Yet MORE "speculation"
Okay guys, let's settle this here and stop reverting each other. This case is quickly getting really absurd. First we get a character Shan with the mention of Bastila regarding her heritage. Yet somehow we claim that her being Bastila's descendant is not confirmed, even though the developers mention the comic featuring a descendant of a KOTOR character. They probably think we should have at least half of a brain cell and be able to put two lines together. But now we have a direct line saying that she has the blood of Dath Revan and you still tell me it is not confirmed? Seriously, what the hell? It's a narrative after all, the character know things they talk about - what other confirmation do you need?  Mauser  Comlink 17:03, February 12, 2010 (UTC) The line by baras kind of confirms the bastilla --> satele part. Hes just not sure who the father was, with Raven being a strong possibility, that kind of implies bastilla as the other. Didnt malak "rape" bastilla? who knows what really happened between them when she turned. Jlryan 19:01, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. To me, to add that she was a descendant of Revan is speculation. Baras says "If Darth Revan's blood flows through your veins, you belong with us. To me, that says the Sith are not sure whether or not she actually is a descendant of Revan.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:10, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely agree that your reasoning that she is Bastila's decendant. However, Kasra is completely correct. Baras says "if" she is. Meaning even IU, it isn't confirmed. -  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 17:17, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, to me it's clearly the scene reads "If you are who you are, then you have a destiny blah-blah-blah". Look at Satele's reaction - she doesn't sound a bit surprised by the statement (where is NOOOOOO!, anybody?), the fact is clearly known to her. You know, some day we'll get even more direct confirmation that we need, but until then I feel it is very stupid of us to ignore the clues the writer is deliberately getting us and pretend that nothing said in the comic actually matters.  Mauser  Comlink 17:19, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm with JMAS on this. We can easily connect based on VIP statements that she is Shan's descendant. We cannot connect her directly to Revan, however. IU, the Sith don't know, and going by "she doesn't respond" a certain way means nothing. Assuming that is speculation. She says nothing on the matter, and that is really all we have to go by. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 17:21, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it completely unlikely that the writers could be leading the readers on, or out of the realm of possibility that the Sith could be lying to get Satele to succumb to their plans? -  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 17:25, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, let's imagine that TESB just came out. We just saw the "I am your father" scene and the entire Internet is thorn between "Wow, didn't see that coming!" and "No way, can't you see he's lying?". And we know that the next movie will only come out in 3 years, so no "direct" confirmation ("Your father he is") until then. So, what should we as the Encyclopedia do, accept the revealed information and use it or just assumed that the character was lying and declare that "Until we get a direct confirmation, saying that Vader is Luke's father is speculation"? If we do the latter, then how can we be sure none of the other characters is lying? How can we know anybody is saying the truth In-Universe? This is similar to another discussion currently in the SH regarding the duck test: sometimes we have to assume what we see is what it appears to be, just as we have to assume what the character is saying is true, unless there is an evidence of the contrary.  Mauser  Comlink 17:41, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see your point. And going on that, we have to go with the "if factor" that the Sith did not know for certain if she was Revan's descendant. -  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 17:54, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Luke was told straight-out, truth or not. Satele is told "if" not something as a fact that we can take straightway. It is presented as speculation IU, and it should remain that way on the wiki until we have proof to the contrary. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:08, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's blackmail/temptation/expectation-setting. If you are indeed who everyone says you are, you'll do this, just because you are that individual. What do they have to do, explicitly state that she in fact is so? 2+2=4. DAWUSS 01:20, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

To Jiryan Bastilla was tortured by Malak, not raped. Now for the rest, we have to take what Baras said with a grain of salt. His statement has one lie in it that is confirmed and that is that Satele has 'Darth' Revan's blood in her veins. Revan and for that matter Bastilla would have both been redeemed by the end of the Jedi Civil War which would have been before they could have had a child. So IF she is their descendant then she comes from two Jedi. --JMasterWor 21:29, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Satele's heritage
It seems highly likely Satele is a descendent of Revan and Bastilla. As made in a previous point, Satele was not suprised when Baras tries to convince Satele to join the Sith by saying "If you are of Darth Revan's blood..." Further, the context of the quote is more of an "If you are this, then you will do this" type of arguement. Since she is Revan's descendent, it is very likely that she is a descendent of Bastilla since the only confirmed canon relationship Revan had was with Bastilla and given that Satele's surname is Shan. Also since TOR is being made by Bioware, it wouldn't make sense for them to give Satele the surname of Shan if she wasn't related in some way to Bastilla.Josh33333110 03:13, February 16, 2010 (UTC)Josh33333110
 * It is not importend if it makes sense, it is importend if there is a source that proofs this to 100% to put it in the article. Gulomi Jomesh 08:46, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is getting kind of riddicolious taste. Considering that what we have here is encyclopedia about fictional universe nothing, absolutely nothing can be prooved hundred percent. Fe how do we know that Vader is really Luke´s father? I mean everyone could lie and now proove me that I´m wrong. You can´t. No one can, the connection between Satele and Revan is obvious but as of now only in term of speculation, I take that but saying that Satele is not Bastila´s descendant despite everything that writers said and what was written in comics stinks of doublethink. --Kalerab 16:41, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

We already knew that Satele was descended from Bastila from the beginning of Act 1 when Grand Master Zym and Dar'Nala referred to the former's heritage. However, in the case of Revan, it isn't a hundred percent like Gulomi Jomesh said. User:Master Shannara February 28,2010 (UTC)

I believe she may indeed be Shans and Revan's descendant. Her being a Force User with the last name Shan, and second being able to use battle meditation. If she is Revan's descendant then she has potential of being a powerful Jedi or Sith which ever she chooses. User:Darth Rorac March 21,2010 (UTC)

The only problem is it is never stated that Satele can use Battle Meditation all it says is that she has Bastila's 'gift'. This could mean her Battle Meditation or her skill with a lightsaber or one of a hundred things she did after the two KOTOR games we just don't know and though I believe that the comic creators were trying to imply that the 'gift' is Battle Meditation it is never said as such so we just don't know if its true or not. --JMasterWor 19:56, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Aurebresh in the Holonet
If you deciper the Aurebesh in the Holonet here, it says "Jedi exiled her mother", "blood of Revans" and "a secret son". Gulomi Jomesh 15:06, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You should add that to the Behind the Scenes section. &mdash;fodigg  BlackRebelStarbird.png (talk) | 22:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just wasn't sure if, so I asked. Gulomi Jomesh 09:38, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I noticed "Blood of Revan" (middle vertical text), "A secret son" (text to the right), and just "Jedi exile" (text on the left), is there an image that I have missed somewhere?--Seleucus Enlil Trebor 16:30, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can see the "Jedi exiled her mother" clearly on the background I linked and even on the original page. Maybe there is something wrong with your screen settings. Gulomi Jomesh 16:48, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can think Firefox and it's most recent update (at the time) for that problem.--Seleucus Enlil Trebor 00:03, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi. I've been a follower of wookieepedia for a long time, and despite not being a user, I just wanted to chime in and say that find is really, really cool. Pretty much is an 'unofficial' subtle hint that Revan was involved. Props. ---X

So.....
So is she a decendant of Revan and Bastilla or just Bastilla?
 * It's confirmed on her Holonet entry that she's a descendant of Shan. And please sign your comments.-- 02:06, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Evidence also seems to point towards Revan, but it has yet to be confirmed.
 * Baras said "If Darth Revan's blood runs through your vains then you belong with us", the word 'if' means that it can not be cast as fact.
 * You should also sign your comments. (Four Tildes ~ ) ░▒▓ Alex | Talk  ▓▒░ 19:29, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

okay lets just get it over with. in all these arguments there's something not taken into account. IT'S STARWARS! it would make a fantastic plot for that character if she was a descendant of both bastila and revan. use god given logic and you should be able to see. HOWEVER i do agree that it could possibly be just speculation and nothing more. and with this i do realize that speculation is not allowed on wookie. so why dont we just nod to ourselves and just handle this in an immature way saying i told u so when it is confirmed but just leave it be at the present. that would be the most logical course of action in my mind.DarthDerkomai 19:01, June 7, 2010 (UTC)darth derkomai

As my fellow Sith and I have discovered and the info provided by Darth Derkomai, it would seem most likely that she is indeed descendant of Lord Revan. It has already been proven she's indeed the descendant of Bastila, but since KOTOR and KOTOR2 are canon including the LOVE relationship between them along with the several phrases in Aurebesh. When translated, they read "Jedi exiled her mother," "Blood of Revan," and "a secret son." Now with all that info (and the word IF does not apply cause in light of recent evidence shown) I would have to say she is in fact the descendant of Lord Revan and Bastila Shan. Of course that's my view on the subject. I think I speak for some who are tired of arguing about this with everyone else am I right? comment. Darth Rorac June 8th 2010

Malgus Masher?
The new Hope cinematic trailer shows a woman who looks similar to Satele. She also displays incredible power by actually absorbing a lightsaber stab directed at her chest, something only a powerful master, maybe grand master, could do. Anybody else think it's her? Apart from the black hair, she is very similar. Darth Tyranitar 22:46, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please take note of the notice at the top of the this page - the one in the blue box. Thank you. -  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 22:51, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

If it is her then it's relevant to the article Darth Tyranitar 22:54, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * But speculation is not relevant to the article. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 23:04, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ah I guess so. Guess we're waiting on official confirmation again :( Darth Tyranitar 23:08, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

It was confirmed that it was not her. Gulomi Jomesh 17:14, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. I really wanna know who she is now, she has to be a master, they wouldn't have shown her doing that lightsaber catching thing if she wasn't important, and powerful. Good find on that link. Darth Tyranitar 17:18, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Young Jedi Knight to graying Grand Master in 3 Years?
Any explanation?
 * It's closer to 10 years- while Fatal Alliance is listed on the timeline on the cover as 3,650 BBY, it was only an approximation of the date. The events actually took place in approximately 3,643 BBY, due to the fact that in the epilogue Jet Nebula says ... Has the Republic recovered from the near-beating you gave them a decade ago?, the near beating obviously referring to what happened in 3,653 BBY. 08:49, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Satele Shan = Unidentified Jedi (Battle of Alderaan)
It had been confirmed in an interview dat this female Jedi is indeed Satele Shan.--Darth Stefan (Talk) 11:47, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Can't argue with that, she's clearly not in the first trailer so it must be her in the second (love it when my speculations turn out to be right :P). Someone should change the pages accordingly. Darth Tyranitar 12:06, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you go to the discussion page for the Unidentified Jedi (Battle of Alderaan), in the item "Robert Chestney never said it was the Hope Trailer", it talks about this source and how it does not necessarily confirm that she and Satele Shan are the same person. Personally, given how they look nothing alike, I would strongly prefer a definitive statement from Bioware about who it is. JediHistorian 12:39, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

There are no other female Jedi in either trailer though. By default, it has to be her. Darth Tyranitar 16:02, October 4, 2010 (UTC)