Talk:Grievous/Legends

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Coughing
Is it ever stated explicitly why he coughs? From what I've read elsewhere, it seems to me that it is merely assumed that he got the cough thanks to Mace's force-crush at the end of Clone Wars. Granted, I haven't read Labyrinth of Evil, so maybe it's explained there. Kuralyov 00:48, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * He didn't wheeze or cough before Mace crushed his chest plate in, so I imagine its safe to assume that as the cause. --65.96.185.195 01:32, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * He didn't cought before the crushing, and he started coughing a lot as soon as it did happen, even for the brief time in the cartoon after it happened. – Aidje talk 05:09, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Somebody decided he should cough in the movie to prove to dumb movie audiences that he's not a robot. --24.141.193.190 02:28, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * In Deep Forest (one of the Visionaries stories) Greivous does indeed have a hacking cough. Rob Coleman says that the coughing is due to his organic body not taking well to the cyborg shell. Mace's "crush" simply aggravated an existing problem. Tam 14:19, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)

his chest plates were force pushed by mace
 * In the Audio commentary of Revenge of the Sith, it is said that Grievous coughing was explained in the cartoon Clone Wars. Does this make of it the canon explanation despite the other sources ?--Petiflo 16:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * First: Don't post in the middle of a discussion. Second: Windu's Force crush was the cause. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Then I am confused, how was he able to survive total vacuum after he smashed out the viewport of the Invisible Hand?--Quidon88 03:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe he just held his breath... Petiflo 09:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * No. He was a cyborg; he probably had modifications to his lungs that allowed him to breathe in vacuum. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Breathe in vaccuum" ??? Excuse me if I'm wrong, but even with tweaked lungs, it don't think that's possible to breathe in vacuum, the very definition of vacuum is that there is nothing to breathe... Petiflo 21:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, he survived, didn't he? He was a cyborg. He definitely used the fusion of technology with his organs to survive being in a vaccuum. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * He was cyborg yes, but he still had organic lungs, which no source indicate were tweaked, and organic lungs inhale oxygen, which you don't find in space. On the other hand, this fusion of technology certainly protected him against the coldness of space.Petiflo 12:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Take Vader as an example, EP3 novel stated that his armor pump oxygen directly into his blood; maybe Grievous used his organic lungs to breath in normal state, and his cyber part would automatically kick in to work like Vader in vacuum. Darth Kevinmhk 13:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's definetely possible yes.Petiflo 16:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yet you yourself just said "which no source indicate were tweaked". I'd call the Vader thing having tweaked lungs. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd call it an "improvement add-on", but I guess it's all a matter of point of view ;) Petiflo 09:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Improvement add-on" would be "tweaked". ;) Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * hate to restart a dead thread but does this mean the clone wars cartoon is canon? Ugluk 00:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * He didn't need to breathe. His vocoder and organs were damaged. - Milo Fett Comlink 03:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah but in LoE that never happened, which is a higher canon source.--Herbsewell 12:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But it did happen, whether or not LoE showed it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 15:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * LoE isn't higher canon. They're both equally canon, and discrepancies are handled on a case-by-case basis.  In this case, the chest-crushing of the cartoon did in fact happen. jSarek 17:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 18:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How is that so exactly?--Herbsewell 21:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm, they're both C-canon sources? jSarek 22:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well yes but which one is closer to the movies in canonnocity?--Herbsewell 22:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * They both are. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What's to say that one of them is more canon then the other?--Herbsewell 00:31, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What What. One canon source says one thing, another says another, which one do we use?--Herbsewell 00:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Both, unless something contradicts something in the other source. In that case, we should probably ask Leland Chee. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack that's what I mean in the first place. We have to start actually asking these questions and getting answers.--Herbsewell 01:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then we ask Chee. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Problem is, Chee can be annoyingly ambiguous. .  .  .  .  01:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yet he can solve this kind of disputes. Someone should ask him. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hang on...what's the problem? What am I asking? .  .  .  .  01:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem is that Clone Wars and LoE are the same level of canon and are conflicting. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I need a question. .  .  .  .  01:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How about something like this: How can the differences in Labyrinth of Evil and Star Wars: Clone Wars be reconciled? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * He'll just answer it like that?--Herbsewell 11:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There's only one way to find out, now isn't there? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:08, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't ask me...--Herbsewell 21:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You can put your money on a useless and ambigious answer. .  .  .  .  22:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Knock it off, Thefourdot. Leland Chee can help us out. Besides, you're not contributing anything to this discussion by saying stuff like that. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Any news? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 15:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm hesitating to give it to someone with such a terse attitude, but he said he reconciled it in this thread. .  .  .  .  21:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Any idea on which page? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No. .  .  .  .  23:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Because I think there's about 30 something pages there. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True. And just at the moment, I don't have the stamina. Maybe next week I'll sift through it. .  .  .  .  21:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I might look through it, but it would definitely take a long time. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Since I dug this up for Talk:Star Wars canon, I figured I might as well post this here, too: "It looks like his answers in that thread start here, with a timeline of events here and further clarifications here." jSarek 23:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Since I dug this up for Talk:Star Wars canon, I figured I might as well post this here, too: "It looks like his answers in that thread start here, with a timeline of events here and further clarifications here." jSarek 23:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Heart Stunning Device or Sith Lightning?

 * In Visionaries - The Eyes of Revolution P.121, it appeared that Dooku took a hand held device from his belt and used it to blast Grievous. The bolts produced were orange instead of Sith Lightning's skyblue. Dooku then said "The heart stun will wear off shortly." I believe it was a heart stunning device, instead of Sith Lightning currenly mentioned in the article. Any thoughts? Darth Kevinmhk 16:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Visionaries is not canon. It was Sith lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 17:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There was another source (but I forget which exactly it is) that I read that mentions that Dooku 'uses his power' to keep Grievous alive, with a small picture of the zapping. That may be a mistake by them, though. I haven't read Visionaries, only the secondary source. Yrfeloran 17:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This second source would be correct, then. What is it, by the way? Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 17:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide, here. Definitely says he 'used his power'. Yrfeloran 18:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC) [[Image:Ultimate4.jpg]]
 * Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous says he uses Sith Lightning as well.--Rune Haako 18:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There you go. Sith lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 19:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, i know Ultimate Visual Guide + Unknown Soldier together outrank Visionaries... but the ironic part is that the picture attached in the Ultimate Visual Guide comes from Visionaries. But I know better than argue against Insider article, so it's settle then (Although I am not convinced). Darth Kevinmhk 04:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? It's Sith lightning, and it's been backed up. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 13:46, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Because the Ultimate Visual Guide used the pic of Visionaries, in which not only the bolts were orange, Dooku seemed to have a device in his palm. Anyway, was The Eyes of Revolution considered as retconned to C-canon after the Insider Grievous articles published? Darth Kevinmhk 15:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said above, Visionaries is not canon. All canon sources say lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 15:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, Visionaries are not totally non-canon, and The Eyes of Revolution seems fit into continulity according to our Holocron Keeper. Check this out: http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Talk:Star_Wars_Visionaries Darth Kevinmhk 16:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Still, it's lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 16:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I know, I had already said that "I know better than argue against Insider article." Darth Kevinmhk 16:49, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, then, it's settled. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 16:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It is a small device. I have the story. It is a stunning device. DarthMalus 15:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * More canonical sources disagree. It's lightning. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * nope. it is a device as it is in dooku's hand and thus overides any other source because of artist intention. insider made an error. it happens sometimes. we will just have to point out their mistake by writing them a letter.
 * No, it is Force lightning. Insider and The Ultimate Visual Guide both say so. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

But that is not what is illustrated. That means Insider and TUVG made a mistake. It's no big deal. A simply letter will clear it up and canonize what IS actually depicted, and that is Dooku using a stunning device.
 * No, because the later sources say it was Force lightning and not something else. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * But that is not what is illustrated. maybe we should just said heart stun because its obvious you want Dooku to have used Force Lightning, but what is illustrated was deemed canon. If it were in fact lightning it would have been illustrated. A pic of it woulodnt hurt either where the device is clearly visible. It is an error that needs correction. Dooku was laso not that skilled with force lightning.
 * No. Sources clearly say it was Force lightning. And Dooku could still use Force lightning, anon. Enough with this already. The majority of canon says lightning, not heart-stunning device. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Grievous' lightsaber trophies on the Trenchant?
Are those ment to be some of his Jedi lightsaber trophies?--Rune Haako 22:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7529/grievoustrophies6ql.jpg
 * I suppose so. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 00:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Err... but i doubt those Jedi Robes are also Grievous' trophies... Darth Kevinmhk 02:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * They could be. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think he was talking about the lightsabers in the glass in front of Ventress. As for the robes, they do look pretty torn up, so they probably came from slain Jedi. -- SFH 20:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * "I think he was talking about the lightsabers in the glass in front of Ventress". Just wondering, who's "he" and who was that directed at? Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack, I think SFH is referring to User:Rune Haako by saying "he" --DannyBoy7783 14:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Where does this picture come from?? It looks like CLONE WARS but it doesn´t appeare in CLONE WARS I or II.--commander-rob 9:44 August 2006
 * It's in one of the Clone Wars Adventures. But please try to avoid restarting discussions in the future. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

His "gunship" in Clone Wars chapter 25?

 * Can anyone identify the type of vessel Grievous uses to narrowly escape Mace Windu on Coruscant? It appears to have more than one weapons turret capable of firing to the rear, and a hyperspace drive (or possibly a stealth system) capable of engaging at relatively low altitude.
 * It probably is some sort of MAF or a Gunboat, but no one really knows what it is. Demolitions Expert RC-1187 Helmet Comlink [[Image:Galactic_Republic.JPG|20px]]
 * He uses a "tri-winged shuttle" to escort Palpatine to Invisible Hand in Labyrinth of Evil - Kwenn 11:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected,Demolitions Expert RC-1187 Helmet Comlink [[Image:Galactic_Republic.JPG|20px]]
 * The ship in the cartoon is definitely not a Theta-class shuttle, but perhaps the Seps used a tri-winged shuttle of their own design?
 * Yes they did, though no actual designation other than "tri-wing shuttle" is given. He also uses a "Separatist gunboat" earlier in the book, apparently similar to a LAAT/i - Kwenn 12:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not surprised that the book and the cartoon would have him using two separate vehicles. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * They're not neccessarily two separate vehicles. The cartoon features a tri-wing shuttle, right? I think they're supposed to be the same - Kwenn 12:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's one good thing about books that contradict/are contradicted by other sources&mdash;no pictures. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The shuttle-sized ship in the cartoon does not appear to have three wings, but two. However, I could be wrong, of course.  And certainly it could feasibly be the "same" vehicle referred to in Labyrinth.  More likely, though, is discrepancy between the two sources, which are different in many ways.
 * The third "wing" is the main body. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, though that doesn't seem very plausible. Why call a vehicle with a fuselage and two wings a 'tri-wing shuttle'?
 * Because the fuselage appears very thin and looks like a third wing. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And it's better than having them as two separate vessels, which would only cause contradictions - Kwenn 20:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Which is something we don't need. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't they call it a Gunship? And there's already a Separatist Gunship? The disk like thing? I know it's droid operated, but I always thought they'd just modified one for passenger carrying. --Sauron18 16:02 29 June 2006 (CDT)
 * No. He uses a gunboat, which I think is also referred to as a gunship, to chase the mag-lev train, then later a tri-wing shuttle to reach his flagship - Kwenn 21:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Why not just use the same vehicle? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Because the gunboat was an atmospheric infantry transport while the shuttle was an orbital personnel transport - Kwenn 21:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh. Got it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Grievous uses the gunboat first after seizing Palpatine, but this is then chased by Clones after Mace thinks Grievous fell. It turns out that the gunboat has been leading them on, and that a specially-prepared LAAT was used to reacquire Grievous, who hung onto the rail.  This LAAT is destroyed, but not before delivering him to the bunker, where he retakes Palpatine and makes his getaway in a tri-winged shuttle with "meager" weaponry.  This shuttle must surely be a Republic shuttle, which was always just sat there at the bunker, such as the Theta-class!  I think the vessel used in Chapter 25 is making its one and only appearance there, in yet another discrepancy between Clone Wars and Labyrinth of Evil.  It is certainly heavily armed. By the way, I'm the guy who first started this discussion, in case you're wondering.  I don't know what I was thinking with the hyperdrive comment, as he is obviously headed for orbit.  But then why the flash as it suddenly disappears from Mace's view?  Is it just igniting its basic engines?
 * Please don't post in the middle of a discussion. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry! I thought that was the whole point of using the asterisks to indent. I was responding to your post "Which is something we don't need", not your post "Oh. Got it." :)
 * Yeah, it's just that when some people are looking for the latest edit, they might not find it because it could be in the middle of a discussion. And don't worry about it. It's just a small accident. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being cool about it. Look, I got an account now!--Kev-La Ttolya 11:41, 4 July 2006
 * No problem. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * So, anyway, surely the tri-winged shuttle in Labyrinth must be a Republic shuttle, probably Theta-class? Kev-La Ttolya 16:40 12 July 2006 (GMT)
 * Why? It could easily have been landed on that platform by his droids - his gunboat managed to get past aerial defenses, and the shuttle is able to reach orbit without being destroyed, so it's not as if it's impossible for a CIS shuttle to make it to that point. Also, there's no point in making these ships different, as the description loosely fits the depiction. And finally, the shuttle couldn't have used a hyperdrive to escape Mace, as it was in the atmosphere, and hyperdrives can't be used within a gravity well. It likely had a booster or similar - Kwenn 16:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The tri-winged shuttle is waiting on a landing pad at the Supreme Chancellor's bunker. I believe that Grievous needed codes (supplied by Tyranus, via Sidious) to get to (and, I think, into) the shuttle (which is obviously undamaged to begin with and becomes heavily damaged during the escape).  If it was a Sep vessel, why did noone know that it was next to the Chancellor's emergency bunker, and where is the transport vehicle that would surely be posted there?  These factors lead me to assume that, since the shuttle in Labyrinth was obviously never intended by the author to bear any relation to the vehicle in Clone Wars (the two are full of contradictions), it is likely it was not only different, but not a CIS vessel at all.  Also, the only tri-winged shuttle I've seen is the Theta-class. So, to conclude:  I believe the 'tri-winged shuttle' referred to in Labyrinth of Evil is a Republic shuttle (possibly Theta-class), and that the shuttle Grievous uses in Clone Wars is an unidentified Separatist vessel.  Just because it makes it 'easier' or 'neater' for us fans if we can somehow tie-up contradictory sources, does not mean that it makes more sense that way, or better reflects the intentions of the author(s). Kev-La Ttolya 18:00 12 july 2006 (GMT)
 * The fact is, Clone Wars and LoE contradict each other, so we either just pick one to use here, or make it confusing by using both. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can appreciate that. I actually started off wondering about Grievous' craft in the cartoon, and then got to thinking about the tri-winged shuttle from Labyrinth. I'll take a look at the Theta-class discussion as that would be a better place for any possible mention of Grievous possibly using one, I guess. Thanks! Kev-La Ttolya 09.14 13 july 2006 (GMT)
 * Actually, we might never know if he used one. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree entirely. However, I would point out that there may also come a day when we do find out what the author's intention was.  And while discussion here could not feasibly hinder any approach of the latter, I can imagine it might speed it. Kev-La Ttolya 01:30 14 july 2006 (GMT)
 * We could get an answer some day, yes, but it's pointless to just wait for it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I say the author of LOE ought to rewrite the book to acomidate the Clone Wars. Anyone agree? user:Darth Vatrir
 * Well, the novel possesses the higher canonicity of the two, and personally, I prefer the novel to the cartoon anyway. Sorry, but you don't get my vote. -Kev-La Ttolya 09:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus, authors just don't rewrite their books to solve disputes. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually I believe Leland Chee said that the canon event was depicted in the Clone Wars cartoon.
 * Provide a link to where he said it, then, because I find that hard to believe. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sceptical about that too. Why would they bypass their own rules of canonocity? --beeurd 23:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the anon is just trying to get the Clone Wars cartoon more canon than LoE. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe it was a custom design like his wheel bike
 * Well, Grievous had more than one wheel bike. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Shaak Ti
Didn't Grevious kill Shaak Ti aboard the invisible hand? She is not listed in the Jedi Kills section. (Deleted scene of EPIII on the DVD) 24.162.85.5 17:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

But in another Deleted Scene of ROTS it shows Anakin and Obi Wan entering the Invisibel Hand and Grievous stabbing his saber through her throat
 * Since that scene was deleted, it is superceded by the ROTS novel, which states that Anakin killed her in the Jedi Temple. - Angel Blue 451 17:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Which is wrong..again. Shaak Ti is not dead, numerous sources say so, she escaped! No one knows how she dies yet, the relevant info is on her talk page which is where this question should of been really! Jedi Dude 17:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. One of the more-recent Insider issues confirmed that, since neither death of Ti was in the movie, Shaak Ti actually survived. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Also note Shaak appears in hologram form on the Jedi Council during the Battle of Kashyyyk, thus proving in G-canon she at least survived Invisible Hand. She's apparently going to appear in Force Unleashed judging by concept art released on the OS - Kwenn 19:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent points. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:52, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Neither of those deleted scenes are canon. Shaak Ti survived the events of Episode III. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Spinning torso
Is his ability to spin his torso completely around canon? I first saw it in the RotS video game and dismissed it as a game mechanic, but then I saw that episode of Clone Wars where he fights the Jedi on Hypori and noticed he did it in that as well.--Darth OblivionComlink 18:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC) SPINNING BUZZSAW OF DOOM!I know your not supposed to put personal opinions on Wookiepedia, but I just had to voice that regarding Grievous's spinning torso. user:Darth Vatrir
 * While I doubt it after looking over images of him, it probably is canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Main Pic
For the main pic on Grievous's profile, I think we should use this pic instead of the current one. I find its a more dynamic pose and he actually looks like a warlord, instead of just an advancing droid with lightsabers. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Of cource I won't mind if anyone suggests another pic. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Uh, that doesn't show a lot of him like the current one does. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The old one is somewhat... old, worn, and doesn't show him up close. If we could get a portrait that would be great.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 11:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, a portrait would be good.... .  .  .  .  11:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll try and find one.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 11:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, we should really get a gallery of options here and vote. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Grievous ready for battle.JPG|thumb|right]] Here's one. It shows plenty of him, its a portrait, its intimidating, and he actually looks like a warlord. user:Darth Vatrir
 * One more thing, in favor of the first pic. A lot of you said it doesn't show much of him, but I think thats a good thing. It leaves so much up to the imagination, besides, we already know what he looks like. user:Darth Vatrir
 * That's the thing. We know what he looks like. We should show that in the main image. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * OK then. What about the second image I suggested? user:Darth Vatrir
 * And what about that one? Since I have this pic, I've always though it was the best reference photo of Grievous. The four arms holding lightsabers, the cape, his posture, all that make him really intimidating. We quickly indentify him as a droid (or cyborg), and as a villain. What do you think of it? Kaal 12:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Number three, definitely. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Number three isn't all that different from the current one. My vote is up for number two. It is very dramatic. Remember upper body images are preferred to full view images.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 02:11, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I also vote for number 2, although number 3 isn't that bad, either. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Where is image number two from, anyway? It looks like it has a fan-modified background. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Number 2 is from the Gallery of Grievous images. Its a promotional pic. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Right, number two is really a beautiful picture of Grievous (it's my favourite from the three), but IMO, reference photos should be prefered for an encyclopedic purpose, no? Kaal 14:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I just want a source for image number two. I think number one is out now, wouldn't you think? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. We should definately use it now.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 20:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Its done (maniacal laugh). user:Darth Vatrir
 * I just want to say, this looks really bad. Plus, the backround is from a poster and not at all uniform with the other main pics of major film characters.  Besides, this is an encyclopedia, and we should be using images for informative quality, not coolness. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 22:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I don't think it looks that bad. And I find its very...sending. We see he's a villain, we see he's a cyborg, and possibly a jedi killer. (Of cource we all know he is those things, but look at it from the point of view that you don't know.) user:Darth Vatrir
 * [[Image:GrievousEscapePod.jpg|left|thumb]] OK, for those who don't like the new pic, what do you say of this one? I find its imformative, encyclopedia style, and the white cape helps him match better with the comics of him. user:Darth Vatrir
 * God no. Give us a portrait. That's encyclopedia style. .  .  .  .  23:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Full body images are also encyclopedic, Thefourdot. Our choices aren't only portraits. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Very true. I do have to object to using a poster for the main image though. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 03:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I was also thinking that it didn't match other images for main characters as well, for example Dooku's image. However it is better than any of the others that have been presented. If not the second one, then I should like number one, though my prefered image support goes to the second image, poster or not.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 11:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * For our purposes, it isn't the best. It is dark and leaves most of the character hidden.  The main image should be chosen on the grounds of informativeness, not coolness or how dramatic it is. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 17:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Then my vote goes to number 3. user:Darth Vatrir
 * My vote goes to number one, simply because it is different from the current one.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 23:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * What about this?[[Image:Grievous.JPG|250px]]-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 00:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Its been pretty well established that informative, not dramatic, pics are wanted, though the fact saddens me. My vote still goes to number 3. user:Darth Vatrir
 * It's not dramatic.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 01:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But its not exactly informative or encyclopedia style, either. Darth Vatrir
 * I guess not. Either we use number one, or keep the one we have. Three isn't much different from the current one.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 22:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Full body shots are about as encyclopedic as rhetorical questions and conclusion sections, Jack. .  .  .  .  00:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no need to bring that debate into this one. What if I were to work on some compromises, and post them here for you to see? -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be fine, seeing how this seems to be going no where.-- IG-Prime (Sentience Core)[[Image:Arakyd Industries.jpg|17px]] 00:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm going to need some help though. Anyone have any big, high res promo pics? -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you can get a portrait, you will have my wholehearted support. .  .  .  .  00:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Skimmed through OfficialPix and the only one that we don't have available is this one. . Make a decision. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 01:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Beautiful. That one is almost tailor made for the infobox. .  .  .  .  01:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * [[Image:General Grievous NEC.jpg|thumb|right]] Wow, the OfficialPix Grievous photo is just great for an encyclopedia. If we'd had it "clean", I would vote for it right away. Anyway, I don't know if characters from the movies can have an illustration as a main pic, but I found the Grievous' one from The New Essential Chronology just beautiful, the pose is nice, and it's a portrait. What do you think of it? -- Kaal 02:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's great, and if we can't get the OfficialPix version, it will have to do, since Grievous isn't exactly "live-action". .  .  .  .  02:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thefourdot, enough with this. Why do you hate full-body images so much? They're just as good, and sometimes even better, than portrait shots. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 15:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The NEC one makes him look pink. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 19:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True. Not exactly a good main image if his metal body looks pink. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I found this pic amongst my old files from before episode 3 came out (sigh..). It's medium size, but it is of good quality and I think it might be up for it. What do you think?--Sauron18 21:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that was put in the article before, but it was never voted on. I'm pretty sure it's a picture of a Grievous cardboard cut-out, but it does have a good quality. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like the cape was painted on the body with Photoshop...-- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 23:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think so. I remember the cardboard cut-out, and it had that cape. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That picture is indeed from the cardboard cut-out, I think that's were I found it quite some time ago. Nothing is edited btw, there's a version of it at "OfficialPix" if you wish to check it out, but this is larger and watermarkless.--Sauron18 23:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it was. It just looks that way. We can do better then that. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 23:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's the same as all the other finished Grievous Promo pics, and I prefer it to the current picture since the model is closer to the movie one. --Sauron18 23:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And we can still do better then that and those. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 23:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Either way, it's the same model for all of them, a model which is noticeable more complete than the one released in the early promos, so let's call this Number 7. And I vote for it as main. --Sauron18 23:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, this is getting a little hard to read with all the pictures so close. Perhaps it should be moved to a forum for the vote. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Good Idea. --Sauron18 23:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And make sure the current main image is included in the choices. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As well as the OfficialPic proposal (I'm not spending any money unless it's a guaranteed thing). -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 00:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I did it. It's my first time doing a thing like this so I did something wrong I'm sorry. Anyways, it's here.--Sauron18 00:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Great. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Two conflicting sources
Are there there are two conflicting canon sources for this article?
 * For what? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What happened at the second battle of coruscant acording to Clone Wars chapter 25, as opposed to Labyrinth of Evil's take of what happened.--Herbsewell 20:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * LoE is the more canon source. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Is the compromise made on the second battle of coruscant page canon?--Herbsewell 21:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's canon only because it's a combination of two canon sources. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes but was this combination was made by "fans", or by an cannon source of some sort?--Herbsewell 00:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, we had to do it because of the two different depictions of the battle. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So this interpretation is not necessarily canon?--Herbsewell 00:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's canon because two canon sources have been combined. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ...into a messy mush. Do you think we should use the "twoconflicting" template? .  .  .  .  00:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No. And "messy mush" is your opinion. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Do have a source for the claim that LoE is more canon that CW? Adamwankenobi 01:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * None of it's canon because the two stories cannot coexist, and because we made it, not a canon source.--Herbsewell 01:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Apart from the fact that LOE came first, no. The "twoconflicting" template really should be used here, since Lucasfilm haven't yet come up with a concrete timeline for that event. We've taken the liberty here of making up our own timeline, and that's not wise. .  .  .  .  01:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Shall the same be done for the Second battle of Coruscant?--Herbsewell 01:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. .  .  .  .  01:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "None of it's canon because the two stories cannot coexist, and because we made it, not a canon source". Wrong. Two stories can very well co-exist. Besides, since we combined two canon sources to make up for a dispute between sources, the result is still canon. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack, you lost, the combination is not canon.--Herbsewell 18:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Notice how I specifically say that these stories cannot coexist. I simply mean to say that they both say different interpretations which cannot both be true at the same time, ergo they contradict each other.


 * Herbsewell, I did not lose. Combined, it's just as canon as each source is individually. Therefore, it is still canon. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No...combined it contradicts both canon interpretations at the same time. And that which contradicts canon is non-canon--Herbsewell 21:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wrong. Combined, it reconciles the two conflicting sources. It's still canon. Stop disputing it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Until officials make their own repairs to the continuity...we are in no position to do any "reconciling". .  .  .  .  00:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Others obviously disagree. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, if we're happy with supplanting fanon amongst our articles, I'm fine with that. .  .  .  .  00:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not fanon if it's the combination of two canon sources. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I know, but timeline wise...aren't we taking just a few too many liberties? .  .  .  .  00:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That may be, but it's better than having two disputing sources on the same event. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. But I still think it would be wise to keep the tag at the top of the page. .  .  .  .  00:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If I didn't remove it by now, that shows I won't until it isn't needed. ;) Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Has this kind of template ever been removed?--Herbsewell 02:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't think so. I only just created it recently. .  .  .  .  05:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought it was new... Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it means that unless some official source straightens this out, it never will be.--Herbsewell 15:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then we make do with what we have. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Which is not cannon. Don't argue because the majority agree with me.--Herbsewell 20:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because you have "the majority" does not mean you are right. By combining two canon sources, the result is still canon. It may not be as high as each source separately, yes, but it's still canon. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sigh. LOE is of a higher canon status than Clone Wars. Clone Wars is a stylized version of events. It's already been noted Mace didn't actually destroy all those droids on Dantooine. So any discrepancies (and I do mean full discrepancies, not things that can be worked around) defer to LOE - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 20:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, LoE is higher canon. I'd prefer that the Second Battle of Coruscant would just use the events in LoE and nothing from Clone Wars, but we can't just disregard every bit of information in the cartoon, hence the combination of information. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack, the combination you support does disregard some information from the Cartoon.--Herbsewell 20:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, because it's contradicted by higher canon. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok then, but the combination also disregards LoE's interpretation.--Herbsewell 20:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How so? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have to admit, the combination is pretty much aligned with the book, but Grievous's chest was never crushed.--Herbsewell 21:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I won't say this because it's been at least a year since I read the book.


 * Hyperspace Members, take a look at old Reversal of Fortune. It clears up a few of the discrepancies. .  .  .  .  21:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you email it to me somehow?--Herbsewell 01:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I don't think a comic can be emailed. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And it's Hyperspace exclusive content. No-no. .  .  .  .  04:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Until George stops trying to make a buck off everything to do with star wars, and I stop being cheap, could you describe what happened?--Herbsewell 16:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it shows the bunker where Corobb is killed by Grievous, and Shaak is shown tied up in the bunker where Grievous took Palpatine when Windu and Allie arrive. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't that just the comic version of LoE?--Herbsewell 20:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, because Shaak being tied up in that bunker appeared in Clone Wars only, I believe. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So that goes against the book?--Herbsewell 20:40, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No. It's resolving the conflicting sources. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well the book says something different.--Herbsewell 20:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, which is why it was meant to try to resolve the issue. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:47, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not what the Template says.--Herbsewell 20:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The template isn't canon, now is it? Stop it already. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:59, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Did I even hint that, (maybe in your mind)? If the argument is settled then it should be taken off.--Herbsewell 21:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You're the one who said these sources were conflicting in the first place. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Notice how I say if Jack. Since it's not, we don't.--Herbsewell 21:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then why'd you even bother saying that? Now, since this has contributed nothing, let this post end it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I tried to say that the comic did not resolve the issue. Jack if you want the last word it would be wise to not ask questions.--Herbsewell 21:13, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then let this post end this completely pointless debate. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack it's pointless in your opinion. The point of this debate was to come to the conclusion that there were two conflicting sources.  If it were pointless the template would not have been added, and we would have not come to that conclusion.--Herbsewell 21:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Will you two please stop arguing? The debate itself isn't pointless, but you aren't being productive. Yes, there are discrepancies (though I believe only minor ones). Why don't we list what we think are conflicting elements of each source, and work from there? - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:19, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think they're all minor. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then list them, Jack - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't read the book in a while but I specifically remember Mace Windu not crushing Grievous' chest in LoE.  Sorry about the arguing.--Herbsewell 21:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you were apologizing to me as well, then I'm sorry as well. As for the discrepancies, I haven't read LoE or seen Clone Wars lately, but I do remember someone talking about a big issue on conflicting information a while ago. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've got LoE here, and Mace learns from Shaak Ti that the shuttle is already heading for Invisible Hand. He's nowhere near it when it lifts off. However, I believe in this case, Mace crushing Grievous' chest has been referenced elsewhere - on the RotS DVD commentary, for one, so perhaps here, the cartoon takes precedence? - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you fit Mace and Yoda fighting droids in LoE?--Herbsewell 21:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there's nothing conflicting with that. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it can fit...just about. Mace arrives at the Temple after learning of the attack in LoE, and I think there's a period between that and LoE's maglev train fight in which his cartoon fight could fit - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, Mace mentions during the opening stages of the Coruscant invasion that Obi-Wan and Anakin are currently on Tythe, so that confirms those two plot threads are happening at the same time - meaning Nelvaan occurs before. I think there may be space at some point in the middle of the book, where the Jedi are trying to track the maker of Gunray's mechno-chair - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How bout Grievous breaking in and killing the guards?--Herbsewell 21:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * He smashes into Palpatine's apartment in LoE, but his office in CW. He still captures Palpatine in the bunker, and Mace notes many dead bodies in LoE - so I think that matches up OK. We follow Mace at this point, so we don't see Shaak's fight with the MagnaGuards, but there's room for it - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How bout the Jedi that accompany her, Roron Corobb, Foul Moudama, and Roth-Del Masona?--Herbsewell 21:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Corobb and Moudama are present, and both die in the bunker. And I think Masona was killed in the Hand's hangar according to Unknown Soldier, not down on the ground - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:48, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't Clone Wars and LoE have diffrent interpretations on that?--Herbsewell 21:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, just checked Unknown Soldier, which says Masona was decapitated in the bunker. That fits, since LoE has an unnamed male Human fighting with Corobb and Moudama - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah but he's not even in the Cartoon.--Herbsewell 21:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True, so LoE takes precedence there. The bunker fight itself isn't shown in LoE, though, so we could take CW's depiction of Corobb and Moudama's deaths from that - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But it is shown, only that the three Jedi aren't there.--Herbsewell 21:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wasn't Clone Wars based off an original version of LoE? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, why don't we just write a Labyrinth of Evil section, and a Clone Wars cartoon section and let the readers decide whatever they want to believe. I think the fact that Lucas even allowed this to happen shows that he honestly doesn't care that much about continuity outside of the movies. - lalala_la
 * Bad idea. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You obviously do not understand wookieepedia.--Herbsewell 19:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The wise, and practical thing to do would be to extract that whole part of the bio into BTS and explain the discrepancy. .  .  .  .  20:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Herbsewell, I've been here longer than you have, so don't think you can treat me like a new user. Having a Clone Wars and LoE section for that is OOU, and therefore not allowed in the main section of the article. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * See jack this is why I should have posted my comment right after lalala. I've done that before only to get your harsh criticism and correction.  Doing that would make it much easier for people to know when other people are responding to them.--Herbsewell 21:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nebulax, could you leave the page for a bit to let things cool down? -- Riffsyphon1024 21:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why me? And Herbsewell, you could have posted something like "Lalala la:" before your comment to avoid confusion. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine Jack, I apologize.--Herbsewell 21:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And I apologize as well. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Has a decision been made?--Herbsewell 00:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I don't think so. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there any other possibility besides rewriting all sections from articles that come in conflict with LoE, or a higher canon source?--Herbsewell 03:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The only options I see are either have these sections tell the majority of the info from LoE with some Clone Wars info not contradicted by LoE, or we try to merge the information again. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by merge?--Herbsewell 12:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Making another combinition of the information from both sources. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah but the last one contradicted some canon.--Herbsewell 02:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Then we make a new one that doesn't. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes but in cases where they contradict will we use the LoE interpretation?--Herbsewell 21:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It depends upon what is being contradicted. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * May you give me an example?--Herbsewell 16:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't read LoE or watched Clone Wars lately, so I can't. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Who has?--Herbsewell 00:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I can say that the Grievous having his chest Force-crushed by Mace Windu would still have happened, even if LoE doesn't show it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 03:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No I specifically remember that not happening, as in Grievous left in a way that would not have permitted him to have his chest crushed in LoE.--Herbsewell 03:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem is, it happened in Clone Wars, meaning it did happen. LoE and Clone Wars are the same place on the canon level, so even if one thing happened in one but not in the other, it automatically happened. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 03:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack something that happened and something that did not happen is the same thing. So technically it happened and did not happen which is why we have this template.--Herbsewell 03:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The fact that one sources says it happened overrides the other source that says it doesn't happen. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 03:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * From what source?--Herbsewell 03:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Clone Wars shows it happened. Therefore, it did. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 03:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * LoE says it didn't happen, therefore they contradict, therefore the topic is unresolved.--Herbsewell 03:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently you haven't been listening to me. Because one source said it did happen, it did happen. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh I have. Because one source said it did'nt happen there's a contradiction.  Get someone who's better at debating who sides with you and I'll say something.  And jack if you're so sure what happened, remove the templates and type the canon interpretation according to you.--Herbsewell 14:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's bad enough you said something like that on Talk:Asajj Ventress. Don't start it here as well. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well most people, (all except you actually) side with me and that's why the template is still up there. You don't like it, complain on a forum.--Herbsewell 14:37, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * All except me? Sorry, it's only been us two lately. How about this: Neither of us post until there's a good reason to. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Who put the template up jack?--Herbsewell 14:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Stop trying to get the last word. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Some ego you have jack. Here I am, trying to answer your questions that advertise your ignorance and then you accuse me of this?  I could care less about the last word.--Herbsewell 14:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Trying to answer my questions? What questions? And you're the one who's becoming one step closer to personal attacks. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right not questions, just settling somethings. You're just upset at how the disscusion is going.--Herbsewell 14:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I'm upset over the fact that the discussion turned out to be a debate between you and me. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And you can always stop posting comments.--Herbsewell 14:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll say one more thing, and then I'm done: You could stop posting, too. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:59, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah but I'm not making such a big deal about it.--Herbsewell 15:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hows about you both stop. .  .  .  .  21:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's been two days. Don't you think we already have?--Herbsewell 21:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Elaboration: Hows about you both stop arguing like a coupla kids, and, hey, stop me if I'm repeating myself, but actually try and back up your petty squabbles with something resembling evidence. Take this, for example: check out the RotS DVD commentry, which I'm fairly sure confirms the source of Grievous' cough is Clone Wars, thus making the event canon. M'kay? And yeah, two days, right, except I was under the impression this discussion ended ages ago...y'know, the last time I tried to get you guys to clam up about it - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh, whose elaboration was that meant to be? Yours, Kwenn? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Clarification: Yup, because I said it. Elaboration of Fourdot's post - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 21:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess I should have worded "Yours, Kwenn?" a little differently. That post was just... Odd. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why did you even bring it up. That was more than two days ago?--Herbsewell 21:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it looked unresolved. And your question marks have gone awry. .  .  .  .  21:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Unresolved? Can't you assume that if an issue has been left alone for more than 48 hours that it's been resolved?--Herbsewell 21:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not in this neighbourhood. .  .  .  .  22:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the fact that discussion turned into something not suited for this talk page (which, surprisingly, is happening again, although Herbsewell and I are on the same side now) is the reason the topic was ended. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 02:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be ended, just set on a course where we aren't squabbling on some insignificant issue totally unrelated to the original one.--Herbsewell 13:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, do we have anything to discussion about this topic right now? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Endgame quote change
Personally think the following quote from the Endgame section should be removed:

"General Grievous, you're shorter than I expected."

- Anakin Skywalker

Anakin's comments on Grievous's height have nothing to do with what that section covers. I've already tried persistently replacing this quote, but for some reason people keep changing it back. I for one think it is irrelevant and a poor choice. I just want to know why people think it's so good so I can save myself a lot of editing hassle. If someone can give me a good reason why it should stay, I won't remove it. Thanks. Unit 8311 19:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't. Which quote are you going to replace it with?--Herbsewell 19:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem is, those other quotes that were placed in Anakin's quote's place are only quotes that Grievous said. This one talks about Grievous. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really. It's just a comeback by Anakin because Grievous called him young.--Herbsewell 19:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How about these two:

"We have a job to do Anakin, try not to upset him."

- Obi-Wan Kenobi

"And this time, you won't escape."

- Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I think they're better than the current quote and they aren't spoken by Grievous.Unit 8311 20:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I just added the second one, does anyone disagree?--Herbsewell 21:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm changing it to "And this time, you won't escape" because it's better. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what I meant to put. I accidentally copied the wrong text.--Herbsewell 21:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I have to agree that that's better, after thinking over it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't someone else put a third quote in that space before? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? Unit 8311 18:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I remember someone else having changed it to another quote before. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The Jedi knew of Grievous before the battle of Hypori?
The New Essential Chronology says they did since Republic Commandos fought him at the Battle of Geonosis, everything else says they didn't know though. So what is it?--Rune Haako 08:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The Commandos didn't actually fight him at Geonosis; in Republic Commando, they only see his ship fleeing, and are unable to identify it. Grievous was active on Geonosis, but no Jedi survived an encounter with him to report back on his existence. EDIT: Hmm, just read that passage in the NEC, and it does seem to contradict the game itself... - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 08:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * What should we do, then? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Article name

 * After reading the big Anakin/Vader article name dispute, I came to wonder: Why is this article named Grievous when all other dual identities have their birth identity as article name (Dooku, Anakin, Palpatine)? We are contradicting ourselves on account of which name is best known. If that was the case, Anakins article would be named Darth Vader. It isn't, yet Greevie gets his fame name on his article.DarthMRN 15:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No, article titles go with latest name. So, this would stay at Grievous. As for Anakin/Vader, he was last known as Anakin when he return to the light for that short time before he died. As for Palpatine/Sidious, he was last known as Palpatine. Same thing for Dooku. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 16:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually the reason we don't use those names is because they are bestowed names and titles.--Herbsewell 17:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about, Neb? How do we determine which name they were known by last? Is fan perception grounds for how we do anything around here all of a sudden? But let's assumme you are right. That would make the Grievous article named K-Necrosis. Vader was still known as Vader after his death, except by his respectful children who didn't want to call him by that name. It doesn't add up either way.

If Herbsewell is right, then naming the article Grievous most certainly is wrong.DarthMRN 19:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Necrosis is a different character, and ,as such, has his own article.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 19:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I am right but we won't use it. It's the same reason the article for Darth Maul is titled 'Darth Maul'.--Herbsewell 19:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * DarthMRN: They're called sources. They have the character's name in them. And Anakin and Vader were the same person. Once he returned to the light side, he was no longer Vader. He was Anakin, regardless of what some people called him. And Grievous became his real name after he changed it from Qymaen jai Sheelal. N-K Necrosis was a droid made from Grievous's robotic skeleton, and therefore not actually Grievous. Herbsewell: No, that's not the reason. It's been decided that a character's name at their time of death is the title of the article. Therefore, it would be Dooku over Darth Tyranus, Palpatine over Darth Sidious, and Anakin Skywalker over Darth Vader. However, even if Darth Maul's real name was given, the article would still probably be at "Darth Maul" simply because Darth Maul was his latest name at the time of his death. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No since it's a title, we would use his real name.--Herbsewell 20:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No. "Darth", although a title, is a different situation. Upon the adoption of a Sith name, "Darth" becomes a title and a name. Therefore, "Darth" would be in the article's title. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No Darth is a tile as far as articles go. It's a matter of opinion, so don't try to change mine just because it's not yours.--Herbsewell 20:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Then let's stop going off-topic. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "Darth is a title" are the first four words in the article of Darth.--Herbsewell 20:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Stop going off-topic. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying exactly what the articles here say about the title Darth. I take it back.  It's not a matter of opinion, it's right here in words.--Herbsewell 20:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's enough, Herbsewell. You're continually going off-topic. Stop it. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)