Wookieepedia:Trash compactor/Breast

Breast
They have no more specific Star Wars relevance than any other body part. We don't have articles on arms, legs, hands, feet, fingers, toes, or anything else on the humanoid body. Why breasts? jSarek 07:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep

 * 1) Keep. Because of things like trees and reptiles and fish having boobs. It makes it notable. Havac 07:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) *So? They also have arms and legs.  There's nothing in the canon about why that should be notable. jSarek 07:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) **Arms and legs just don't have the same significance to fanboys as breasts have :-P KEJ 07:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) ***Reptiles normally have arms and legs. Fish have fins which can easily be believed to evolve into arms and legs. Sentient trees are humaniform because that's the way things get made in sci-fi. But there's absolutely no precedent for breasts on a fish. Or on a reptile. It's unusual and what's wrong with documenting that? We have articles on the Yevethan dew claw. Why not have an article on breasts? Havac 17:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Sikon 08:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Keep. http://www.cuswe.org/newdescr.asp?search=42045 -- add this info to the article and it is no longer subject to the deletion policy.  --School of Thrawn 101 08:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Keep. They are an important thing in many cultures. If lekku get a page, then so do breasts. If sugar and water and alcohol get pages, then so do breasts. Kaje 12:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep! Where else would you go to find out how many species have more than 2 breasts? I wouldn't object to having a head article that lists species with more than 1 head, and an arm article that lists species with more than 2. These types of articles could also list characters whose heads/limbs/lekku have been severed, and also link to their corresponding prosthetic replacements. Clothing specific to the respective body parts could also be mentioned. I've changed my mind. An anatomy article would suffice, and would cover everything. --Azizlight 01:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Darth Culator (Talk) 16:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Unit 8311 17:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Keep!! McEwok 17:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Per McEwok. - Jinko 17:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) I say this with the most heterosexuality I can possibly gather, "KEEP". supergeeky1 [[Image:BobaFett.jpg|20px]] The Cantina 17:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Per Azizlight. Adamwankenobi 20:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Just noticed all the dodgy pictures of Aayla Secura's chest have gone, so keep. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 15:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) If there are more referances to them than other body parts, why delete them? I happen to like the page. K-E-E-P!!! Anzati02 21:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) * meesa likes!!! 216.77.197.34 21:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) Yarna has six of them! --  Riffsyphon  1024 04:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) It should primarily mention SW-specific information, species physiology etc. I actually believe we can make something serious out of it if we can hold the vandals at bay. Evir Daal 07:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge

 * 1) Merge with Mammal. KEJ 07:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you mean redirect to mammal? I'm not sure merging it makes sense, since the two articles have entirely different purposes.  --School of Thrawn 101 07:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I mean "merge". I'll refrain from commenting on the purpose of the breast article. KEJ 07:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Merge/redirect with a new anatomy article. --Azizlight 01:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * How about just including an "Anatomy" section in species articles? -- Imp http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e5/ATATatarismall.png 01:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The species articles would probably benefit from that, but I still ask the question: Where else would you go to find out how many species have more than 2 breasts, or more than 4 arms, 2 heads, etc? Someone suggested a new branch of categories, but I think a simple anatomy article would solve everything by answering all these questions. --Azizlight 01:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Redirect

 * 1) Redirect to the Wikipedia article, as per the masturbation link on the Wank article
 * 2) A soft redirect would work, as there are issues about it regarding the Falleen. But then lock it immediately afterwards to prevent vandalism. -- SFH 20:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Delete

 * 1) Delete. jSarek 07:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Delete. I have to say that I don't envision an a category for body parts. Should this include kidney as well? Cull Tremayne 08:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. --School of Thrawn 101 08:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Penis? Oh, yeah. .  .  .  .  08:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Weak delete. See comment below. -- Ozzel 08:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Per jSarek. Green Tentacle (Talk) 08:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Delete. Darth Admony 12:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Remember, this week is Breast Awareness Week. Make sure to inform the women in your life that you're aware of their breasts and that you appreciate them very much. Enochf 12:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Do we really need an article on this? Delete.--Windu223 14:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Delete. General Layton 14:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) Delete. T8-13 14:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) Delete. ASAP. If this isn't deleted, I demand articles on fingernails, shirts, knuckles, vests, towels, navels, scalps, sweat, etc. All of which are mentioned in canon works, but none of which are particularly distinctive to SW. Atarumaster88  15:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Delete mainly on the basis of notability. When would this legitimately be linked to? Arms, hands, and hair are all a lot more notable, arguably. We do not need to even point out the Neti thing (we aren't a stand-up comedy routine), but even if we did, it would belong in the species' article.  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 16:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) Delete, along with its search icon.- Solus (Bird of Prey)  17:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Still trying to come up with an airtight rationale for deletion, but I say get rid of the damn search icon. Replace it with a picture showing Rasha Bex's face and chest if you must. I'd speedy it myself, but I don't want to break anything. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 17:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Fanboys. >:( - Dark Spork 19:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Unfortunately. Chack Jadson 19:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) JMAS 19:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) What the...?  Stake black   msg 20:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Still unable to come up with the airtight criteria, and my friend did say she thought it was "brilliant", but this is too far on the silly side of hyperinclusionist fanwankery. Distribute the canonical info in the Twi'lek, Dathomiri, Mammal, etc., articles, though. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 20:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) I see no reason to keep it--unless you want to have an article about the male organ and ITS uses in the same way. No?  Didn't think so.  Any unusual breast-related cultural attitudes or notable biological features can be covered in the article belonging to the relevant species--in context.  This article as it is is just certain men expressing their "desires" in a not-so-veiled manner. Teris Shae 21:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) *To be fair, I don't believe the male organ has ever been mentioned in canon. jSarek 21:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) *Find a canonical reference. Write an article. I'll vote to keep it. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 21:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) The Broox 21:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 10)  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 21:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) Imp http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e5/ATATatarismall.png 21:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 12) --Eyrezer 21:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 13) With Silly Dan. 18:21, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 14) Destroy it. There's absolutely no justification for it being here. The reasons that others have come up with aren't justifications, but backwards reasoning. --GrandAdmiralJello 00:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 15) *Oh? I beg to disagree. I'm no boob-drooling fanboy. I only defend it because I think it does have value of its own. Frankly, any fanboy edits would get reverted. Why should content be removed because some fanboys give everyone a bad name? Havac 05:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 16) Weak delete. See comment.--Valin Kenobi 04:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments

 * I think it's about time for us to make a policy in regards to what things with Earthian counterparts we will cover on the site and what we will not. -- Ozzel 07:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur, and the policy should be linking to Wikipedia in those cases. See also Entymal and chitin. If we keep Breasts, we need a Chitin article. And who will work on it? No one. Why? Because the breasts article is inherently immature. Sorry, but it's true.  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 16:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If this is kept, then I want an article on Facial hair! KEJ 13:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * To borrow from someone else, I'm so opposed to this article that my opposition could split from me and form a separate entity, giving two votes against this thing. Atarumaster88  16:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "Keep! Where else would you go to find out how many species have more than 2 breasts?" -- Um, how about that species' article? Didn't read that carefully enough. But in IRC we discussed the possibility of a "List of species by number of breasts." It would be a woefully short list, of course; one might as well just use the Search feature...  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 16:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Arms, hands, and hair are all a lot more notable, arguably. Depends on your "point of view" :-P [just kidding]. KEJ 16:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Obviously, this article is going to be a target of immaturity. But then again, so is Waru. And Wank. And Leia Organa Solo (bikini OMG LOLZ!!!!). But we have those anyway because they're canon and that's what we do. The first edit of Visas Marr was something about her being raped by Nihilus. We just turned it into a respectable article. I don't think we should allow the potential for vandalism -- or the idea that breasts are naughty and we can't have an article on them -- to keep us from making a respectable article. Furthermore, they have notability within the Star Wars universe, due to their appearance on species which should not have them, which should be covered. It's probably best off as a brief overview of what it is, a discussion of their SW significance, and a link to Wikipedia for more facts about them in general. It doesn't hurt anyone. Havac 17:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "I don't think we should allow the potential for vandalism -- or the idea that breasts are naughty and we can't have an article on them -- to keep us from making a respectable article." That's not my argument. I don't see how a respectable article can be made here, or is necessary. See also kidney; no content there couldn't be covered in some other, more relevant place. By your rationale, Havac, we should have an article on Hair and every mention of hair in every article will need to link to it. That includes infoboxes. Now if you're seriously advocating that, OK -- I could be persuaded to be that hyper-anatomically-inclusionist :) and change my vote here. But while I might agree that it's notable enough to mention Neti and Mon Cals having breasts, it belongs on the respective species' pages. Let someone sufficiently interested do a search for "breast" instead.  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 17:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there's no content in Luke Skywalker that couldn't be covered in the articles about the stories he's appeared in. It's about bringing the information together and presenting it cohesively. Breasts on a tree, breasts on a reptile, breasts on a fish, breasts on another reptile, sure, they all fit in their own articles. But bring them together, and you have an article about a phenomenon that spans canon sources. I don't see what the big deal is. Havac 17:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Breasts are canon. They appear, explicitly, in three seperate scenes in The Courtship of Princess Leia, which differentiates them from the spurious pages people have compared them to. And that's to say nothing of implicit toplessness in Tyrant's Test and elsewhere, widespread discussion of their significance in Falleen physiology, and the appearance of a bare-breasted Oola character-design in RotJ production art (The Art of Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi). I really think that we have the potential to create a great Wookieepedia page here, one that's amusing without being smutty or silly, and also mature and informative. Ultimately, Wookieepedia is about what appears in Star Wars canon: breasts are among the things that do, and subjective POVs shouldn't be allowed to interfere with that principle. There's vandalism at Palpatine, and Korlo Brightwater is a stub in need of serious expansion. These factors don't make those articles irrelevant. --McEwok 17:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * So they're canon. So they appear. So does sand. Doesn't make it notable. As far as the Courtship content and other implicit content, does it not belong here? (And to reiterate, I'm not objecting on the basis of POV definition of smut or vandalism probability.)  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 17:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "Or...they could all be summed up in a "mother" article that lists such things as various types of soil encountered in the Galaxy...or an article that describes clothing worn by different factions. Or create a bunch of stubs for things like shirts and sand and breasts and other aspects of the Galaxy that are relatively minor influences and contain them in categories that effectively describe them. Personally, I'm a fan of the "mother" article concept. A hefty, well-organized article that addresses clothing, for example, could be easily brought up to such a status as to be worthy of good article nomination. Such an effort would be well within our role as an encyclopedia" (My post on the Breast talk page.) --School of Thrawn 101 19:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't believe y'all are even trying to come up with justifications for this. Way to pander to stereotypes, boys. I'm so proud. -- Dark Spork 20:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * We could have Malakili as the main image :-) Hooray for manboobs! --Azizlight 23:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * /me grins and waves at snarky fangirl stereotype in the previous comment. In reply to Gonk, the content in CoPL is not "implicit", nor is it primarily "sexual": through Chapters 14-16 (pp. 177, 191, 210, etc.) we get a good insight into the cultural and semiotic context of the mammary on Dathomir, with some insights into how a Tatooine farmboy and a Princess of Alderaan react on the side. The same is true of the Falleen biology stuff. And, with respect to Gonk, jSarek, Ataru, etc. I can see equally clear justification for major, and interesting, pages on geology, limb, eye, clothing and reproductive biology, to which most of the other pages they've suggested would be obvious redirects. "We've not thought of these pages yet" is no excuse for VFD'ing this one&mdash;in fact, it seems to be serving as a catalyst for people to define areas the Wookiee needs to cover! --McEwok
 * I would support the creation of a geology article as it is a science. --  Riffsyphon  1024 04:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It is an indisputable fact that breasts, in the Star Wars Universe, are more notable than the average Pokémon. --School of Thrawn 101 09:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ahh, freedom of speech is a fickle mistress. You voice your opinion and soon |your self-confessed totalitarianist neighbors are throwing rocks through your windows. But back to the topic: McEwok, I don't have Courtship handy, but on the pages you cite, are breasts actually named? Because if it says "Hey look, she has breasts&mdash;mammary glands for use in feeding her young" or something comparably overt ("explicit" may have been the wrong word choice here), then that is indeed one legitimate reason to keep the article. Otherwise, we may well be assuming that something is there based only on our own physiology as non-SWU-humans. Furthermore, the fact that anyone who speaks English knows what breasts are would seem to be a good reason why we don't need this article. Same for hands, feet, etc. These are basic human concepts, not tied to any culture, common to even the least developed languages. Wikipedia has links to such things; we don't need them. We are, remember, a specialized encyclopedia. I doubt, for example, that The Penguin Encyclopedia of Horror and the Supernatural has an "anatomy" category, and they could more readily justify it than we could.  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 18:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, all of those are indeed explicit references (there are actually at least six references over those three chapters). As to your second argument, there are two good reasons why "basic human concepts" as you define them should have pages on Wookieepedia: their specific cultural context in Star Wars, and the comparative biology of the fictional nonhuman species. On both those points, this article is relevant! --McEwok 03:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I think the "keep" side has several good points, and a lot of the article content is useful. (But the Behind the Scenes on the canonicity of comics boobs is just sad.) However, keeping this article just plays to the worst sort of fanboy stereotype and I don't think it's worth the hassles. This content can be broken up and distributed to the articles for Falleen, Askajian, Neti, etc.--Valin Kenobi 04:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)