Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Zaalbar


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Zaalbar

 * Nominated by: -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  18:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: GROOOOARGH

(6 Inqs/2 Users/8 Total/INQCON 5)
Support
 * 1) One of my favourite party members. QuiGonJinn There's always a bigger fish. 17:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Thefourdotelipsis 07:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Good job.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 4)  Grunny  ( Talk ) 10:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 14:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 6)  Chack Jadson  (Talk)  14:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 7) Assuming Tommy's objections are fixed.  Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 16:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 8) Assuming correctly. —Tommy9281  Dark side Master SWGTCG.jpg ( No quarter given, all exits sealed ) 23:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Couple of things I noticed after a quick scan:
 * 2) * Early bio doesn't establish a timeframe.
 * 3) * First paragraph of "Revan" section could be altered to be more from Zaalbar's POV as opposed to Revan's, and some of the extraneous info could be cut out. Also, "Zaalbar found Zaalbar scaring off..." :-P
 * 4) * Speculation at the end of the bio.
 * 5) * BtS needs expansion. There's concept art there, so his conception should be mentioned, as should where he appeared. "An alternate dark side choice" means nothing to someone who's not familiar with the game.
 * 6) **-- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:26, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 7) Some other things from QuiGon
 * 8) * Context on Revan in the intro.
 * 9) * With one of the Star Maps being located on Zaalbar's homeworld of Kashyyyk, Zaalbar returned to his homeworld with Revan. Could one "homeworld" be changed to something else?
 * 10) * Early life. ...came under the attention span of numerous slaving organizations across the galaxy, such as the galaxy spanning wide organization Czerka Corporation. Same here with "spans"
 * 11) * After discovering that his brother, Chuundar, was making deals with slavers to sell Wookiees to them, Zaalbar went mad with rage and attacked his brother. And again. "His brother" is used twice in the same sentence.
 * 12) * "Charging one of the Black Vulkars, one of them knocked Mission down, by striking her". Awkward.
 * 13) **Nevermind, I rephrased it myself. QuiGonJinn There's always a bigger fish. 09:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 14) * "After that, the pair became inseparable from one another". What pair? The previous sentence was about the Vulcars.
 * 15) * Beware of colloquial language like the short forms "who’d" and "hadn't". They are unencyclopedic and should be changed to full forms "who would" and "had not"
 * 16) * "abilities to break open locks, as taught to her by her brother Grif, were able to assist Zaalbar". Abilities were able to assist? This needs some rephrasing.
 * 17) * The GameLS should be used in the article, methinks.
 * 18) * Several articles are not linked in the main body. These include Carth, Bastila, etc. Each article should linked once in the intro and once in the main body.
 * 19) * Zaalbar was a dedicated warrior and fighter, able to wield a number of weapons including melee weapons, such as vibroblades, to the weapon of the Bowcaster, well favored by Wookiee’s, Zaalbar owning his own Bowcaster The last part reads really awkwardly. I suggest splitting the sentence.
 * 20) * Talents and abilities. "Bacca's Ceremonial Blade, given to him by his father, Wookiee chieftain Freyyr". You've already stated at least twice in the bio that Freyyr was his father. And while it reads okay there, it seems unnecessary in this section.
 * 21) * You mention his usage of vibroblades and the bowcaster twice in this section.
 * 22) * "Zaalbar's strength was also evident from his ability to easily pick up foes, as he did with those who were attacking him when he first met Mission and on Tattooine, where he was able to pick up Tusken Raiders" I suggest rephrasing this as well.
 * 23) * "Zaalbar is similar to Chewbacca from four of the "Star Wars" films. Like Chewbacca, he is Wookiee royalty and has sworn a life debt to a Human." I think these films should be listed instead of the current KotoR ref. As does the source that states that Chewbacca was royalty.
 * 24) *Other than that, and a few other minor things I've corrected, the article looks fine. QuiGonJinn There's always a bigger fish. 17:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 25) **Alright, done but for the BtS part, which I'm working on. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  19:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 26) *Acky's complaints have been addressed, as we discussed via the IRC. QuiGonn, the uncrossed objections: the contractions aren't there, and the Chewbacca point isn't there either. :) -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  16:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 27) Four Dot:
 * 28) * "Zaalbar (pronounced /'zɑlbɑɹ/), also nicknamed "Big Z", was a male Wookiee who aided former Sith Lord Revan in his quest throughout the galaxy." - Which quest is this?
 * 29) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 30) * "Originating from the Mid Rim Wookiee homeworld of Kashyyyk, Zaalbar was the son of Wookiee Chieftain Freyyr, but had been exiled from Kashyyyk. Zaalbar had been exiled from Kashyyyk as a madclaw, as he had turned on another Wookiee with his bare hands and violated a Wookiee code of conduct by doing this, causing him to be exiled." - Repetitive.
 * 31) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 32) ***Could do with a bit more. Maybe tweak that sentence transition there. Thefourdotelipsis 11:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 33) * "Zaalbar and Vao traveled everywhere on Taris together, protecting one another in the absence of family members, forging a close bond between the two of them." - In the absence of family members? Perhaps in the absence of any other companions, or something like that, would do better.
 * 34) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 35) * Try to refrain from using first names. Replace them with family names, eg, change "Mission" to "Vao."
 * 36) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 37) * "When the amnesiac Revan traveled to the planet alongside Republic soldier Carth Onasi in their search for the Jedi Knight Bastila Shan, they encountered Mission and Zaalbar when they were affiliated with the Hidden Beks, the Tarisian undercity swoop gang." - Perhaps you should establish this affiliation earlier in the bio.
 * 38) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 39) * "Although Zaalbar did not go for it, a young Twi’lek orphan, Mission Vao, was looking on and felt Zaalbar was threatened by the gang members." - Go for what?
 * 40) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 41) * "When the amnesiac Jedi Knight and former Sith Lord Revan served on the Republic ship Endar Spire, the ship came under attack by the Sith forces of Sith Lord Darth Malak. After the Sith forces overpowered the Endar Spire, and the Republic were forced to call an evacuation order, a multitude of Republic escape pods fled to the planet's surface. On arrival on the planet's surface, Republic soldier Carth Onasi and Revan encountered both swoop gangs, the Hidden Beks and the Black Vulkars and, through them, Revan first saw Zaalbar and Mission in Javyar's Cantina. In the Cantina, Revan found Zaalbar scaring off a group of Black Vulkars who were harassing Mission." - This is told entirely from Revan's perspective. Rewrite it so it's Zaalbar's story.
 * 42) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 43) ***"Zaalbar encountered Revan and his companion, Republic soldier Carth Onasi, as part of the Hidden Beks, Zaalbar and Vao first seeing Revan in Javyar's Cantina." - This part still reads oddly, though. Thefourdotelipsis 11:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 44) ****Alright, done. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  16:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 45) * "Revan, not joining with the pair at that moment in time, allowed them to go on their way." - This is another example of the wrong perspective. Remember, you're writing Zaalbar's biography, not a summary of how he appears in KOTOR.
 * 46) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 47) ***You still mention them not joining his party, though. Why would they, at that point? :P Thefourdotelipsis 11:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 48) ****Dammit, whoops. Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  16:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 49) * There's a quite a bit of detail you've sourced to the DB in the second paragraph of "Revan," that isn't in his DB entry at all.
 * 50) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 51) * "After reaching the uncharted planet Lehon, Carth Onasi was able to give the location of the Star Forge to Republic Admiral Forn Dodonna, who brought her ships to Lehon triggering the Battle of Rakata Prime." - Why would they go there? You need to give greater context to the journey to Lehon, mention the other planets they travelled to, the Star Maps, etc.
 * 52) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg (Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 53) * The picture of him attacking the Tuskens is totally out of place, and not illustrative at all. I recommend putting it in the Talents and abilities section, and moving the Personality and traits image up to the first part of his bio.
 * 54) **Addressed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  10:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 55) *If you can just fix those problems, I think you'll be on your way. Thefourdotelipsis 08:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 56) Grunny:
 * 57) * "Revan traveled to the planet alongside Republic soldier Carth Onasi in their search for the Jedi Knight Bastila Shan" This reason for Revan traveling to the planet is currently intro-exclusive. Including it in the bio would also help set up Shan's later mention in the last paragraph too.
 * 58) * Bio - Return to Kashyyyk: "Revan, having seen in a vision the location of the Star Map being on the forest floor" This is the first mention of the Star Map in the body, without any previous mention of what Revan is searching for. Explain what Revan's quest is here: "Zaalbar became a member of Revan's crew and joined him in his quest across the galaxy." to provide context for the Star Maps and the Star Forge.
 * 59) * Bio - Return to Kashyyyk: "the planet to which the Maps that would lead to the Star Forge had so far led them" I think this could be worded better.
 * 60) * The Bts should include an introductory line, stating that Zaalbar first appeared in KotOR, and explaining that their are there are light and dark side option through the game for those who haven't played it, rather than jumping straight into the alternate options.
 * 61) *Good work.  Grunny  ( Talk ) 11:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 62) From the Moffship of Grand Moff Tranner:
 * 63) * Mention in the intro that it was Chuundar he attacked, and give a brief explanation as to why.
 * 64) * "...they encountered Vao and Zaalbar when they were affiliated with the Hidden Beks." Zaalbar's and Vao's affiliation with the Hidden Beks should probably be mentioned at the end of the first paragraph of the intro. Right now, the wording is a bit awkward.
 * 65) * "Zaalbar is frequently referred to as "young" by the other Wookiees when Revan's party visits Kashyyyk. This, coupled with his friendship with Vao and reactions to her teasing, may mean that Zaalbar is only an adolescent himself." - original research.
 * 66) *Well done. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 14:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 67) From the Desk of Atarumaster88
 * 68) * The madclaw bit in the intro is unclear/incorrect. It's the fact that he used his climbing claws in combat, not his hands, that got him that title IIRC.
 * 69) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 70) * ". Despite his reasons for turning on the Wookiee, who was in fact his brother Chuundar, being as revenge for Chuundar's deals with slavers, his father didn't believe his claims." Awkward wording/spliced clauses.
 * 71) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 72) * "protecting one another in the absence of any other companions, forging a close bond between the two of them" Run-on.
 * 73) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 74) * Needs a link to the Tarisian undercity sewers in intro. We have some pretty good articles on those.
 * 75) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 76) * Needs a link to destruction of Taris.
 * 77) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 78) * "With one of the Star Maps located on Kashyyyk, Zaalbar returned to his homeworld with Revan. With Revan's help he cleared his name and liberated Kashyyyk " Needs syntax variety.
 * 79) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 80) * "being inherently strong and powerful as a" POV
 * 81) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 82) * "while Freyyr returned to the planet's capital," Freyyr was present at the fight? What about Chuundar? An explanation of his fate would be good.
 * 83) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 84) * "Zaalbar encountered Revan and his companion when he was part of the Hidden Beks" Who is "he"?
 * 85) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 86) *" During the battle, Forn Dodonna and Jedi Master Vandar Tokare commanded the Republic forces." Doesn't fit well in its current location in the article.
 * 87) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 88) * "most likely a result of his exile and the shame of being a madclaw" That either is the reason, or it needs to be stated as someone's opinion if that's what it is, or it's OR and needs to be removed.
 * 89) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 90) * Also, Zaalbar's reaction to learning Revan's identity is relevant and should be included in the P&T.
 * 91) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 92) * You talk about his strength in the T&A in two separate places. Please consolidate them.
 * 93) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 94) * For future reference, I don't know how they do it on SWF, but linking is once 1) in the intro 2) in the infobox, 3) image caption, 4) in the main body. 5) References. I cleaned up multiple links to the same thing in the main body and I'm sure there's more. Try and cut down on the redundant linking in the future.
 * 95) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 96) * Needs a ref for Attichituk in succession box.
 * 97) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 98) ***No, CUSWE doesn't count. Canonical sources only, please. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 16:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 99) ****Fixed it myself per request from nominator in IRC. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 16:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 100) *Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 15:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 101) Blacklist:
 * 102) * Intro: "When the amnesiac Revan traveled to the planet alongside Republic soldier Carth Onasi and began a search for the Jedi Knight Bastila Shan, whom they needed to find to aid the Republic war effort," What Republic war effort?
 * 103) **Fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  15:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 104) *More in a bit. —Tommy9281 Dark side Master SWGTCG.jpg ( No quarter given, all exits sealed ) 23:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 105) * In the second paragraph of Early Life, you must say "Zaalbar" a thousand times. See if you can substitute a few with more creative pronouns.
 * 106) **Yep. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  17:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 107) * "Upon landing, they searched the planet for Jedi Knight Bastila Shan, for another refugee from the Endar Spire, as Shan was considered an important asset for the Republic in battles." Why was Shan considered so important?
 * 108) **Yep. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  17:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 109) * "Upon landing, they searched the planet for Jedi Knight Bastila Shan, for another refugee from the Endar Spire, as Shan was considered an important asset for the Republic in battles." These three sentences are rather choppy, and don't mesh well with what is immediately before it. Please rework.
 * 110) **Yep. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  17:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 111) * Sometimes you capitalize Undercity, sometimes you don't. Choose one please.
 * 112) **Yep. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  17:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 113) * "Revan's party eventually reached Shan and redeemed her. Subsequently, Revan defeated and killed Malak, destroying the Star Forge." Was Malak's death the direct cause of the Star Forge's destruction?
 * 114) **Yep, fixed. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  17:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Comments
 * Leaving my vote until feedback, as always. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  18:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Self-votes aren't allowed, at any rate. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:26, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's true. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  19:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's true. -- Darth tom Imperial Emblem.svg <span title="(Imperial Intelligence)" style="color:Black">(Imperial Intelligence)  19:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)