Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Derek Klivian


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Derek Klivian

 * Nomination by: - Havac 16:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: My other summer nom. Image replacement by Red is ongoing. Havac 16:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

(5 Inqs/1 users/6 total)
Support
 * 1) Thefourdotelipsis 00:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Hugetastic. --  Darth Culator  (Talk) 01:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3)  Chack Jadson  (Talk)  13:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) Witty message here. Cull Tremayne 15:30, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) User:Camodroid11 16:42, 2nd january 2008 9(utc)
 * 6)  Jaina Solo ( Talk ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 21:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) The SOTE section doesn't seem to mention Klivian specifically at all. Does something specifically say he was present there? There seems to be a few areas where you mention the Rogues as a group and not Klivian as an individual, and the same question applies. If he's not, then I think it might be just a bit too much of a stretch, especially when you're committing that level of detail. "Organa" is rather abruptly re-introduced in the Mission to Mrlsst section - this should probably be tweaked. And I'm counting 5 redlinks. Thefourdotelipsis 02:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) *Redlinks reduced within acceptable limits. Leia reintroduced. The Rogues thing is a general "We know he was in the squadron at this time, we know the full squadron was here, ergo he was here, though we'll keep it fairly generic." Havac 04:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) **Right. I get what you're saying, but since nothing is explicitly stating that he was there, I think that at least the SOTE section could but cut down. Thefourdotelipsis 23:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) Stuff
 * 5) * "Klivian's fears proved unfounded as Antilles and Calrissian made their way through the Death Star to its main reactor and destroyed it, killing Darth Vader and Galactic Emperor Palpatine." If you're going to source this to RotJ, then I'm not sure that I can agree with this sentence. The film doesn't really show either of them dying as the result of the Death Star's destruction.
 * 6) * Under Victory at Endor: "By that time, Klivian had built a reputation for frequent crashes, and his friends joked about his supposed affection for bacta treatments." Can you choose a different lead-in? Only because you mentioned his reputation earlier under Rogue: "He quickly developed a joking reputation for enjoying bacta due to his numerous crashes and injuries". Obviously both statements are sourced to different books/times, but in the article he already had that reputation, and him building it up even further is kinda confusing, especially with no further crashes really specified.
 * 7) **I agree that they are in two different contexts, but I'd still recommend a reword of the second mention, since "By that time" implies that he didn't have that reputation before, which obviously isn't true in the context of the article. Cull Tremayne 01:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) * Under Mission to Mrlsst: "Antilles prepared a strike on the Imperial base while Loro led a commando mission to rescue Leia Organa, whose presence on-world and capture one of Loro's fighters, Vance Rego, had reported." What does the last part of this sentence mean? Rego captured "Organa" or something? Obviously confused by Rego's double-cross, but still no idea what's going on in this sentence.
 * 9) *I'm about halfway through, just hampered by other stuff. Cull Tremayne 16:14, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) * Under Kidnapping on Corellia, last section: "Their ship was underarmed for dealing with the attackers, but Horn intervened in his X-wing, shooting down the attackers." Can we get a synonym for one of those "the attackers"?
 * 11) * Under Extracting the Emperor: "Klivian had been enjoying some downtime, attempting to pick up women at the base pool with Janson, but Pestage had fled the manipulations of Director of Imperial Intelligence Ysanne Isard on Coruscant and been imprisoned" Can this be reworded somewhat? I realize that the sentence is trying to tell us how Klivian's romantic pursuits were interrupted by the Pestage mission, but as is, it sort of reads that Pestage's conflict with Isard is somehow related to Hobbie's poolside activities.
 * 12) * Per your response to objections on the 181st FAN, would you object to creating a redlink for the false 181st? In the same vein, a link to the false Harran might be appropriate as well, even though the current article combined both characters.
 * 13) *No prostitute link or a pic of Klivian with a Bothan escort? I am shocked, sir, shocked. Cull Tremayne 05:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 14) AdmirableAckbar:
 * 15) *" longtime friend...good friend" in the intro is a tad repetitive; see if you can replace one of them with something else.
 * 16) **Revocabulariated. Havac 04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 17) * "but felt it wise to remain silent on the matter..." - we don't know why, do we? It just sort of reads oddly at the minute, like the reader's supposed to know why.
 * 18) **I've broadened the statement a little to suggest his motivation better. Havac 04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 19) * Could we get an actual picture of the mutiny itself in the "Mutiny..." section, if there is one? Or something more illustrative than Biggs and Hobbie standing facing each other? A crop of Image:SWEMP9-FC.jpg might be good.
 * 20) **That cover doesn't depict anything that actually happened, and there isn't any art of Klivian in the mutiny itself. Havac 04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 21) ***Fair enough. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 22) * The reflist looks a bit messy at the minute. I think you should go with either a double column or a scrollbox, or neither, but not both.
 * 23) **Yeah, I don't see the point in both, either. The double columns were put in by some guy named Yk. Havac 04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 24) * "received facial wounds, but received medical treatment for both injuries" - repetitive. Please find a way to reword it in a way that you find satisfactory.
 * 25) **Changed up. Havac 04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 26) * "Klivian later had a Death Star II kill silhouette painted on his fighter, suggesting that he was part of the attack run against the Death Star as well" - speculation. Just state the facts and let the readers draw their own conclusions.
 * 27) **I reworded it. Havac 22:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 28) ***It's better, but I'm not really sure about it. How do we know it was the Death Star II? Maybe it was a joke, or something. I wouldn't say the presence of a Death Star kill silhouette definitely attested to his participation, even if it is probable. Can't we just say "Klivian later had a Death Star II kill silhouette painted on his fighter" and leave it at that? -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:02, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 29) * "Afterward, the Rogues captured Grand Moff Nivers at Tandankin." Is there really nothing more that could be said about that? It's understandable that you're trying not to get too detailed into the stuff which Hobbie isn't mentioned directly in, but I think a few sentences more info would be good.
 * 30) **It's about six pages, really, all of some guy getting shot down by an AT-AT and Wedge shooting up a pillar to take out their fighters. I've expanded just a little, but I really can't go beyond that. Havac 22:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 31) ***Fair enough. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:02, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 32) * "They were taken into town" reads a little funny, like she's taking them for a night out or something. "the town" or somesuch might work better.
 * 33) **Changed. Havac 22:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 34) * "Approximately six months after the mission to Ciutric IV" - this should read with a date after Mindor, if available, since it's the last event covered.
 * 35) **Good stuff. I'm up to Endor, and I should get a significant amount more read later this evening/tomorrow. Up to Pirates and Pestage Defeating Zsinj, though I'll need to get back to the Mindor section.. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 19:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 36) Preliminary: There are quite a few redlinks.  Graestan ( Talk ) 19:48, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 37) *Redlinks are down within limits. Havac 18:54, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 38) Graestan the Merciless:
 * 39) * I don't think the extra sourcing is necessary on most of the points in the P&T. Maybe if you were making a contradicting statement or something, but not what you've got. Please remove.
 * 40) **All the double sourcing is because I'm either citing a trend, which requires at least two instances of it occurring, or (most of the time) I'm combining statements from two sources. Havac 22:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 41) ***Could you not cite the parts of the statements to their sources? Graestan ( Talk ) 22:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 42) ****I haven't done that for any other article, and I prefer not to get into "Klivian was cynical[3] and dour[2], as well as occasionally irritable in the morning,[5] much to the displeasure of his colleagues.[2]" For general statements, it's not always that easy to do, and for more specific statements, it ends up looking really messy and intrusive. I've never gone with mid-sentence citations, and I don't think there's a requirement to do so. Havac 00:15, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 43) * It's speculation to say that Klivian spoke to prostitutes "possibly as a result" of his romantic lack thereof, and certainly a stretch to say that his exchange with one on Corellia was "engaging" prostitutes.
 * 44) **Speculation-type language removed, and I didn't say he engaged a prostitute -- just that he was willing to engage them. Which we see -- she comes on to him, and he says, "I'm busy. Be around later?" Unless he's randomly lying to her and leading her on for no particular reason, he's willing to engage prostitutes. Havac 22:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 45) * Having just read the Darklighter comics, I believe it is imperative that at least in the BtS you describe Biggs' feelings concerning Hobbie in the comics, which are very far from friendly. It's one of those barely concealed loathings.
 * 46) **Expanded on. Havac 22:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 47) *That's all for now. Graestan ( Talk ) 20:09, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments


 * Just a suggestion: Couldn't you get some better images for the Darklighter section? At the moment, it's just various headshots of him, or him lying in bed...I think that panels of him actually doing something would illustrate the article much better. Thefourdotelipsis 02:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What's the deal with the Klivian surviving Hoth? I thought that the only source that addressed it was the NEGtC, but in that section you've sourced it to "Who's Who". Is that right? I only ask because Kesin Ommis doesn't source that pilot's survival to "Who's Who", instead it sort of infers that Ommis survives based on Klivian's survival in the NEGtC. What exactly does "Who's Who" say about Klivian in the BoH? Cull Tremayne 16:14, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Jamming in more NEGTC citations is all I really wanted to see. :P Cull Tremayne 01:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)