Talk:Galen Marek

Number of sections
I think we should dramatically reduce the number of sections in this article, it makes it look kinda messy. We don't need a section for each level of the game, and the game takes place over only a nine month time period. We should merge them into each other and name them so that the name covers a larger period. DjMack 17:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you think simply removing some of the headings would work? I think the content is fine.--Anonyhm 01:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah thats what I meant, I just worded it really badly. DjMack 03:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone added more material. It seems to have stretched out the headings in a couple of places. With some work, the same could probably be done where it wasn't so effective, or applied. What do you think?--Anonyhm 02:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Quote
I believe that the quote at the top of the page is not a good one to open this article with... it should have stayed as "Rise, my apprentice".
 * I thought that was stupid when the quote was that. You need something that describes the character. And that quote was too cliche. DjMack 16:05, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay... I just thought that since the quote at the top of the page only represents part of his life, it would make more sense to use that quote somewhere else and to use another one that describes his full character at the top. But it's OK with me. Kgrimes2 19:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the quote defines his character very well. He's in general a very conflicted character. After all, everything he's ever been taught turns out to be a lie. 21:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC-8)

I've changed the quote to one that represents both his path life as a Sith apprentice and assisting in the founding of the Rebellion. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Infobox image
The current image represents him only as Vader's apprentice, has been there months before the game was released, and desparetely needs to be changed. I propose one of these four images, which are of Galen in Jedi robes on the Death Star.

Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:31, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Option 1 - This looks to be the best, but probably isn't right for the infobox since part of his head is covered by a hood.
 * Option 2 - Looking towards the camera, but not a neutral expression.
 * Option 3 - Looking slightly towards the camera, with a neutral expression. This is probably the best.
 * Option 4 - Meh.
 * Not a fan of any of them to be perfectly honest. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 17:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I was previously unaware that he used the same costume on Corellia and immediately before Corellia in the cutscenes, so here's another option, which I think is the best for the infobox. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 18:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm all for it. Though that's just me. Others might be less willing to change the infobox image. Black backgrounds are always covering up for sloppy cropping. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 03:43, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I heartily agree with you, Drewton old chap! The current picture shows Galen as a slave. I say we show him as a free man! DarthWill3 00:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Since there is no objection, I've replaced the infobox image with the last one suggested now. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * After seeing it, I feel I should object to the new one, because he looks like a kid who's just about to try to whistle for the first time. -MPK 04:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Finally! Good job. I hated that old infobox image. --Victortalk 04:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

The image used is not any of these and is too close up, pixily, and poor quality. The original was fine, as it appears the site refers promo images as they show full body and stuff. We should change it back or vote and notify. --SuperFlash101 20:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Infobox images are always close-ups, never full-body. Some don't even show the entire head, as in Cade Skywalker. The original was way too dark and just wasn't suitable for an infobox image. The angle was awkward, in addition. It's also important to show characters in the latest known parts of their life. Obi-Wan Kenobi's image is terrible with an ugly yellow background, but because it shows the latest part of his life, it has to be there, no matter the quality. The same with Darth Caedus. The current image is the best quality one I could find in the cutscenes of that time of his life. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 23:58, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Drewton, is there a rule somewhere saying that infobox images must always be close-ups and must show the person as she or he was in the last part of her or his life, and also that image quality is irrelevant? I ask this because it looks to me like you just fixed something that wasn't broken in order to conform to an unwritten rule. Also, according to this rule, shouldn't the main image for the Anakin Skywalker article be one of Vader at the end of Episode 6, rather than Anakin as seen in Episode 3? -MPK 00:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

No, but it's a tradition that's been done for years, and a good one. If I recall previous discussion regarding Anakin's image correctly, it was because his Force Ghost was of the young Anakin, unlike Kenobi's. IMO, there are no major quality problems in the new image, but feel free to start another vote. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:02, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, so who wants to use the old one? (Me, for one) And I understand, Drewton, you use the latest image of the person. But it should also be noticed that it should 1) Look nice, 2) Be recognizable, 3) Be good quality, and 4) Represent the character and it's personality. Therefore, Anakin's image is perfect, since for about half of his entire life he was evil and dark hearted. I still don't understand why Anakin has a Jedi template instead of a Sith one. He was just redeemed for, like, ten minutes, and I don't think he was considered a Jedi still. --SuperFlash101 05:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Policy dictates that it's whatever looks best for the infobox. Typically, the general consensus has been that headshots (almost mug shots) are, by the community, liked the best. Obi-Wan, it was decided that the majority wanted to have Alec Guiness in the infobox rather then Ewan and that's the best we've got of Alec, unfortunately. If it were bigger, I'd just crop it out myself and slap it against white. Anakin's was one that has been discussed in length numerous times and that's the result especially since Vader/Anakin were once separate articles. Cade was just something I did and did not discuss it at all with anyone. I'm actually surprised nobody brought the subject up. Now for this article. The former looks awful in an infobox. The crop is bad and the black sucks. If it were bigger, I'd vouch to crop it at the neck. But it can't be so the one Drewton suggests is the best option. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 05:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Redemtion, I don't agree with you on the last part. I loved the previous one, as it supllied exactly what people think of when they think either "The Secret Apprentice," "Starkiller," or "Galen Marek." The black worked perfectly, and the aim was fine. It wasn't a horrible closeup like Ashoka's or Obi-Wan's, and it was cropped perfectly at the beginning of his leg. It was like, "He's ready to fight." This, this is like just an odd expression as he's wearing those horrible bulky white clothes and his face is very hard to make out. The old one was just about the best quality I could think of, and it was really unneeded to change something that wasn't broken. And I thought Vader and Anakin were separate pages once; how ridiculous. Two pages on the same guy. --SuperFlash101 15:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely disagree about the cropping and the face being hard to make out. In the old one, the face was completely shadowed, and the black made it even worse. And, this is just me personally, but the image only made me think of "The Secret Apprentice" and "Starkiller", not "Galen Marek". Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 16:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Look, I've looked over that image a hundred times. It looks fine, just as good as Anakin's and everybody else's. I say, let's put a new vote: --SuperFlash101 00:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Votes

Image 1 Image 2 Image 3 Image 4 Image 5
 * 1) SuperFlash101 00:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) MPK 02:44, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) I think this one looks best --Anonyhm 16:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 4)  Chack Jadson  (Talk)  02:21, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 1)  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:45, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 2)  Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 17:40, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Options 1 and 2 are both good in quality and focus, but as Redemption said, the infobox image is meant to represent character's last appearance, hence why option 2. QuiGonJinn Be mindful of the Living Force...[[Image:Quigonheadshot.jpg|16px]] 18:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) Gravy666 21:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 02:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

To comment on Image 5, that would be completely unsuitable for the infobox. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And option 3 has half of his face covered with hood, which is not good for the infobox as well. QuiGonJinn Be mindful of the Living Force... 18:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it's been forever. Guess it's the second one by a landslide. --Excelsior, The Flash - (Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!) 15:23, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you know what a "landslide" is?
 * It means it one barely. 4 to 5. And who are you, sign your posts, please. ~Excelsior, The Flash - (Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!) 03:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Umm, a "landslide" is when it wins by a large margin. NaruHina  Talk [[Image:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 12:43, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

About the Jedi Trials...
I noticed that someone put the part about the Jedi Trials onto the page. For those who may not have heard, in TFU there is a downloadable level/campaign which Galen goes to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant to learn more about his father.


 * The information that the article has is mostly wrong.

It says that Vader send Galen there to complete the Jedi Trials, but at the very beginning of the level, PROXY makes it apparent that Galen is not supposed to be at the Temple. Right after that, Galen states that he wants to learn more about his father. When Galen finds what he is looking for, the hologram of his father tells Galen that he must complete the Jedi Trials. As far as we know, Vader doesn't even know about Galen's trip to the Jedi Temple.


 * Also, the section in the wrong place.

The article has the Jedi Temple segment right after the part that states that Galen defeated Rahm Kota, yet in the level, Kota is guiding Galen through the Jedi Temple. Galen is even wearing Jedi robes- the in-game description states that they used to belong to Kota. After the Kota duel, Kota is not seen for a few levels later. There is just about no way that Galen could have obtained those Jedi robes from Kota. Also, after Galen defeated Kota, Galen was still very loyal to Vader until Vader betrayed Galen, so it seems logical that Galen would never willingly wear Jedi robes.

Considering that the level was not included on the game's disk (it's considered a 'deleted scene'), should we even mention the Jedi Temple level as if it's canon? LucasArts decided that the level was not necessary in the game, which is why it became downloadable content.

EDIT: Why does the article have information from the Wii version of the game when the pictures are from the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of Force Unleashed? Just because we're a Star Wars website doesn't mean we need to be as inconsistent as the movies (sorry for the bad joke)... --Gravy666 18:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Because people like mii (bad pun; sorry!) haven't figured out how to get screenshots from the Wii game; I'm terribly sorry!--Anonyhm 00:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Downloadable content falls into the realm of expansion pack so it's in the same category as Empire at War: Forces of Corruption and Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 18:55, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The information in the article is from the Wii version of TFU anyway, not the downloadable stuff. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 18:55, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I second that: it's definitely in the Wii gameplay, more or less the way the article describes it. In truth I don't know if Vader tells him to participate in the Jedi trials specifically(I'd have to play through it again), but Vader does definitely send him there twice. The trials are also not in the novel. Unless there's better guidelines about constructing a composite story, I recommend we leave those sections virtually as is (anyone can edit, right?). --Anonyhm 22:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Request
Would it be possible to get a screenshot from the XBOX 360/PS3 version of the video game where Marek is impaled by Vader? I think the graphic novel's depiction is really weak and just looks terrible, when the alternative is far superior, especially if available in HD. I say XBOX/PS3 since the Wii graphics were simply terrible. If instead the graphic novel image must remain for a balance between the video game/graphic novel images, then I will object, but since I can't take screenies myself I suppose it doesn't matter. But here's to hoping someone else can take a screenshot of this. Thanks. :) – Victor talk 20:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

How Are We Going About This?
Sorry to ask this, but how are we making sense of the story? What I mean is, there is so much extra content added on to this story that it's very hard to make sense of. There are many extra Wii levels that in many ways contradict what the other versions of the game (and the book) say, and it also includes things those two versions don't have. However, Krome Studios, and not Lucasarts, made that version, so can we even call it canon when they take Star Wars into their own hands when they weren't even the people who came up with the story in the first place?

And how about this new downloadable level for the 360 and PS3 versions? How do we fit that into the already questionable Jedi Temple levels?

And how do we tell whether the book's details are more correct in certain situations than any version of the games' is?

And most importantly of all, can anyone even get in touch with Lucasarts to ask what is canon and what is not?

I'm sorry to ask all of this, but right now the state of this article and the story in general is (IMO) messed up by the Wii version of the game and by this new downloadable level (and by the fact that we have no lead on whether one version of the game or the book is right over the other).


 * Considering what you say, I re-watched the webdocs on Lucasarts.com and it looks like Krome Studios was very much working with Lucasarts to create what they did. I didn't get the impression that anything in any versions created were extra or outside of anything Lucasarts had in mind. Consulting Lucasarts isn't uncalled for, but be sure to publish their response if you do. Furthermore, another aspect I have learned about Wookieepedia is the information presented is more of a composite of all sources, even those whose canon features are questionable or not "recognized" as canon as long as they are marked as such. That makes all versions of the game, novel and comic fair game for information. I haven't read anything stating that one version of the story or another wasn't really what happens or was more true to form than the other versions. You have to be careful of copyright also. If I am wrong, someone please address this better.  The bottom line is you have to be careful that you don't get locked into one single version of a story simply because that's the one you personally are exposed to. For example, someone keeps saying Galen yells, "NOOO!" after Shaak Ti drops into the sarlacc, but I never saw it anywhere until I finally read the illustrated novelization. Unless I am wrong, what needs to be done is finding a seamless way to morph all of the information together. We're open to suggestion and discussion, or just make changes yourself. Did you have ideas in mind in particular?--Anonyhm 17:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen anything to really support one version over another either, but I have read the book and played the 360/PS3 and Wii versions of the game, and I felt that overall the book agrees far more with the 360/PS3 version. And as the rough hierarchy of 'story-line' generally goes books take precedence over games and graphic novels/comics, and personally I feel that the Wii version is a bit ridiculous in some of its approaches to the story, such as Galen’s return to the Jedi temple multiple times. My vote would be that until we can contact Lucasarts we go with the Book and 360/PS3 versions of the story line since they are, as I said before, the most consistent.  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )[[Image:JaingHead.svg|20px]] 02:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

The biggest problem with the Wii version changes is that the third level is, basically, exactly like the Kento cutscene in the second Kashyyyk level on Xbox360/PS3/the novel. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 13:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * When its comes to what is considered to be "more" canon, I would generally tend to go with the novelization over the game, and have any inconsistencies noted in a behind the scenes section. - Cavalier One [[Image:FarStar Logo.jpg|20px]]( Squadron channel ) 15:15, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * But what about the fact that the novel is based on the game, rather than the other way around? -MPK 19:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not to mention, the article would need a significant overhaul, and such a "behind the scenes" section would be massive. The suggestion to contact Lucasarts may work, but I don't know how much affiliation they have/share with the wikia. If someone would do it, the confusion could be cleared. Until then, unless someone has a compelling desire to fix everything, I suggest we leave the composite that's in place, barring normal expected wikia editing.--Anonyhm 22:05, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

When does the Starkiller vs Sith Stalker dual take place?
If starkiller's dual with the Sith Stalker is canon, then when does it take place? Is this his fourth trip to the Jedi Temple? --Bron Hañda 02:12, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It has to take place after the second Kashyyyk level (if the novel, Xbox360, and PS3 versions are considered higher canon), or, in the Wii/PS2 case, after the third Jedi Temple level. Otherwise, Marek wouldn't know anything or care much about learning about his father, and learning about Kento was the point of the downloadable Jedi Temple visit. Bah, with him apparently going to that place four times, it must have been a nightmare position for stormtroopers. :P Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:25, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

What Jedi Trials did Starkiller overcome?
Different parts of wookiepedia disagree on Galen's four Jedi Trials. All have agreed that the dual against Darth Desolous was his Trail of Skill. His Trail of Insight was Starkiller's dual with Darth Phobos. There is a discrepancy about his Trail of Spirt. Some say the Trail of Spirt is the dual with the Sith Stalker, while others say it is the dual against his father. Some disagree that the dual against Kento Marek is the Trail of Spirt and claim that it is the Trail of Flesh instead. There are claims that defeating Jedi General Rahm Kota, defeating Jedi outcast Kazdan Paratus, and defeating Council member Shaak Ti is his Trail of Courage. Will anyone establish what his Jedi Trails are? ––Bron Hañda 05:06, 20 February 2009 (UTC)