Forum:CT Archive/"The" in front of ship names - another vote

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I bring this topic up again for the purpose of changing what the Manual of Style says on using "the" in front of ship names. Now, I have an English textbook on proper American English grammar that says otherwise&mdash;"the" is not to be used in front of ship names. So, for the case of Han Solo's freighter, it would appear like this:

"Millennium Falcon was the freighter owned by Han Solo," and not this:

"The Millennium Falcon was the freighter owned by Han Solo."

However, there is one case in which "the" can be used in front of ship names, and that is when part of the ship name has been removed. For example:

"The Falcon was owned by Han Solo."

Now, I ask all Wookieepedians to vote to ammend the Manual of Style to reflect proper American English grammar, which we use here. And please don't make your vote based off what sounds right to you, because that's not what proper grammar is about. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 21:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Do not have "the" in front of ship names

 * 1) &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:19, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) As funny as I think it looks, gonna go with proper english grammer on this one. - JMAS 21:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) I could settle for both, but if the alternative is one or the other, then... VT-16 23:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Have "the" in front of ship names

 * 1) If that's proper American Grammar, then that's just another reason not to use it. American English is bullshit. It's not even English - it's a similair dialect, but dumbed down. You people can't even say "Autumn". You have to settle for "Fall". .  .  .  .  21:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Hardly any official source omits the definite article (as noted in previous discussions.) When I have time, I'll add links to the previous discussions and possibly to some style guides which are either ambiguous or specifically allow "the" (if I can find them, and I'm fairly confident I will.) &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 21:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) As much as Fourdots comments were bigoted and inaccurate, I'd have to go with user "The". Doesn't sound right without it. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Enochf 21:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) I don't even object to the massive work it would take to correct this wiki-wide, just the fact that, as Silly Dan stated, nobody else follows the rule either. I think this is one of those things that won't last but one or two editions more of the MLA publication anyway, because it's different than common usage. Wildyoda 21:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Im with Redemption  Mandofett Wrist Holoprojector[[Image:Mandskull.jpg|20px]] 22:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) I thought 'the' in front of ship names was normal in standard English. KEJ 23:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) It's both normal in almost every textbook I've read over here, and used a lot in the Star Wars universe, both IU and OOU. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 00:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) How many times are we going to vote on things like this? 00:37, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Comments
"Ho-ho!"
 * Fourdot, we use American English, whether you like it or not. And your criticism of American English and Americans in general won't do you any good. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Bad Fourdot.  (wags finger)  I'd be surprised it this turns out to be an American English/Commonwealth English divide, though. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 21:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Despite my comments, I'm not even sure if what you are proposing is proper grammar, even in your butchered dialect. And if it is...that's just a disgrace. But why have you taken to grammar all of a sudden, Jack? .  .  .  .  21:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Fourdot: Because I'm trying to fix what is wrong. Silly Dan: Star Wars books are not English textbooks, as I've said before. Using them as a reason to use "the" in front of ship names is very weak. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Redemption: What sounds right and what should be are two entirely different things. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Like images, the articles should be of what sounds best. Thankfully, proper grammar, almost always, sounds best. A ship is not a person. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * But as a proper noun, "the" is not to be used in front of the ship name. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I hate to break it to you but with a little research, you'd know that "The" is proper for ships and is allowed. A special case. Like "the Smiths" or "the Rocky Mountains". -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe this. Everyone is more concerned with what sounds best rather than what is correct. Hell, we should might as well just start using incorrect grammar on more things. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * KEJ: Not in American English. And I don't even know why I bothered to start a vote; I had proof that "the" wasn't to be used in front of ship names. That alone is enough to fix the MoS. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Everywhere I looked for reference says that ships, surnames, mountain ranges, etc. were the exception to the rule. No indication that there was a difference in Britain. Maybe you should brush up on your grammar skills. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 23:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Watch it. My English book says ship names are no different than a person's name, and that "the" is not to be used in front of either. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Watch what? Watch you? Sorry, Jack. You aren't an admin and with that attitude, your not going to be one since we all know of your high ambitions. I looked at several resources. Even some ESL references. And whether you like it or not, America is teaching the little Mexicans that "the" can be used with certain proper nouns. Your book is probably outdated or simply wrong. Or maybe you just aren't looking hard enough for the exception to the rule. Wouldn't hurt to turn the page. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 23:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Enough with your atitude, Redemption. And my book is not out of date; it was made within the last two years. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My attitude has no bearing on anything that occurs around here since I have no desire to be more then what I am. And the book is wrong. Everywhere I went for information says that there are exceptions to the rule of using "the" with a proper noun. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 00:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * How can a recently-published English book be "wrong"? If anything, it shows that "the" in front of ship names is optional. In addition, I have no desire to be an administrator anymore. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe this. Everyone is more concerned with what sounds best rather than what is correct.

- George Costanza

This is exactly the same as the italics in book titles case. . .  .  .  00:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Might as well end it. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 01:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Patience. I'd like to see some specific citations, even if they disagree with what I think is the case, or with how 95% of the population speaks... &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 01:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Previous discussions
For reference, previous discussions can be found at Forum:CT Archive/"the" ship names, Wookieepedia talk:Manual of Style, and User talk:Jack Nebulax. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 00:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)