Talk:Lightsaber/Legends

Forms of Lightsaber combat
Firstly, I think that this article should concentrate more on the lightsaber itself, and seperate its information on lightsaber content from it, moving that content to another article. I'm the author of the Wikipedia page on Lightsaber combat; if you guys agree, I would like to send the lightsaber combat stuff over to a Wookiepedia article probably just called Lightsaber combat. I can then copy any other additional information from my original Wikipedia page to that page, such as the "Marks of combat." Lastly, the wording of the information on the seven forms of lightsaber combat in this article looks familiar; could it have been just copied and pasted from somewhere else? I'm against that; I would like to rephrase it if it indeed was copied/pasted.
 * I support the copy of any articles related to Star Wars to this Wiki. I can copy your Lightsaber combat article and you could reword it how you want. -- Riffsyphon1024 18:28, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * I actually don't feel that a complete rewording is necessary if my original article were to be copied from Wikipedia, since I'm the author of it. I only suggested a rewording in the situation that other Wookiepedians wished not delete the lightsaber combat forms from this article.  I feel that my Wikipedia article is good enough for Wookiepedia (though I plan later to add even more); so I guess it should just be moved and we can leave it that way.  Anyone to second the vote to make a Lightsaber combat page based on my Wikipedia article?
 * I have already copied it. -- Riffsyphon1024 19:51, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Where does the Name Lus-Ma come from? As far as I know, the Form is called Niman (at least it is in the KoTOR2)

Whole or Part of this Article is from Wikipedia!
This article has been partially copied from Wikipedia! Is this allowed????? KFan II


 * Wikipedia’s text operates under a GNU Free Documentation License. Hundreds, if not thousands of websites copy Wikipedia essentially word for word (Answers.com for instance), so it is perfectly allowable.--Eion 12:00, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe KFan II is munging the issue here (not to say that he has malicious intent). He's asking this question because Darth Fisto and I asked that he not replace existing SWW articles with Wikipedia articles. I believe some of the articles in question were the articles about some of the films, but Darth Fisto has appropriately reverted at least some of these edits. Some of this dispute can be seen on KFan's talk page, as well as my own. -- Aidje 04:08, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How Lightsabers Work
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber3.htm Funny stuff, and some useful info too. --SparqMan 19:55, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Ceremony quotation
The construction ceremony mantra is a nice piece of fluff, but is there a way that we can integrate it into the article? It pushes the start of the text pretty far down. --SparqMan 21:24, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Quote is said by Lumimara Undui --Dylankidwell

Better version....
In my opinion the lightsaber article on the main Wikipedia website is better than the one here in Star Wars wiki. I tried to put it in here but the pictures do not show up. Could someone move here? - Maphisto86
 * First off, we do not replace entire articles with "better versions on Wikipedia". However you can take sections that we do not have here and blend them in. Images have to be saved and reuploaded. -- Riffsyphon1024 19:03, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh Im sorry...I was unaware that we cannot take articles from wikipedia and use them here. I geuss this site is unaffiliated for some odd reason. It's just that the article on lightsabers on wikipedia is far superior to this one. It even says right now that the article on this wiki needs "cleaning up". The one of wikipedia features more pictures, information and is more fluid than this one - Maphisto86 6 Aug 2005
 * In cases where we don't have an article at all, then we will use the Wikipedia one, but if there is an existing version that has already undergone wookification, then it's not a good idea to discard the work that's already been done. If you wish to incorporate some of Wikipedia's improvements to the article, feel free to merge them in, but make sure that you do so smoothly, in a way that will not throw out any work that we've done. Also, make sure that you wookify any new additions. – Aidje talk 06:01, 6 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Bad Info
I agree that this is not high quality (i have seen bad grammar and many sentences that didn't make sense). However, there are also some basic problems, the largest being A LIGHTSABER IS NOT SUPER-HEATED PLASMA. I want you all to repeat that to yourselves. The proof is in the many, many books and sections of the movies where it is mentioned that 1) A crystal is used in lightsaber construction (a crystal would only be used if it is a laser varient, which it is), 2) A light source is always included (why the hell would you have a light source if it's plasma!), 3) There is no plasma container ever mentioned in creation, 4) How does plasma block a blaster (mostly concentrated light) and 5) A lightsaber works pretty much equally in all environments, including space (if it was plasma, changing air pressure in the environment would alter a ton of things about the blade. -- Mirage
 * We are trying to create the most accurate article here with the most accurate sources, but many times sources will tend to conflict with each other, and another thing is, does anyone really know how these things work? If that was the case, then we should have them everywhere. -- Riffsyphon1024 03:07, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, in response to number 4, not all sources say blaster bolts are light. Sometime's they're also listed as plasma.-LtNOWIS 03:03, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Bolts are supposed to be super charged gas, coated in an electron field, which the lightsaber aims to deflect. And no, noone knows how these work because it is fiction, the pure energy cell needed is impossible. And yes, the lightsaber is in no way plasma, this needs to be changed. --Xhysa 23:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Quite frankly, lighsabers and blaster bolts match the description of a slow-charged-linac in a faux-elastic magnetic field much more than a laser, but it doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if it fit the description of a GLOWSTICK. What matters is that there is no canon explanation. And the current version is fine, I just put this up because the "Plasma/Laser/Other" debate got on my nerves.--Erl 03:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the jargonese in the above post. It's a f***ed-up retcon I've come up with to describe the lightsaber, and by now I just sorta rattle it off.--Erl 03:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The history has been corrected to show the most recent C-canon info, that it is based off of ancient technology that "freezes" a laser (rather than super-heating plasma), and describes a little about how the high energy beam is wrapped back to the output source to create the perception of an energy "blade". SonofNils 05:02, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finally fixing that frozen plasma thing. I have another question. Can Grievous really be considered non-Force-sensitive, considering that he had Sifo-Dyas's blood transplanted into him? Or is that occurrence even considered canon?--Benkenobi84 17:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Good question. I thought I might take a crack at the intro to make it flow a little better.  I'd have to check and see if the Visionaries comic is part of canon or part of the Infinities lines. - SonofNils 17:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Cauterization
From what I've seen in the movies, it appears lightsabers cauterize wounds. Yet in Episode IV, there were drops of blood around Pondo Baba's severed arm. Am I missing something? User:SFH
 * Well, it is an inconsistency, but I guess it might be different for some non-humans. That's what they cite in Star Wars inconsistencies. Also, sometimes clothing blocks the blade enough for their to be minor bleeding.-LtNOWIS 03:00, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Today is your lucky day. Cauterization only occurs in some species. Skind density and blood make up make a difference in whether or not the blade will cauterize the wound. Also, if a cut is particuarly fast (as Obi-Wan's was in episode 4) it may not remain on organic tissue long enough to cauterize.

156.63.87.28 14:55, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Individual Lightsabers
Should we begin creating articles for the individual weapons wielded by the various Jedi Knights and Sith Lords? Each weapon is unique, and many have a history behind them. Multiple versions of the same user's weapon could be grouped into a single article (for example, Obi-Wan had at least four lightsabers during his life). We have pages on many named starships, so perhaps individual weapons, too? - Kwenn
 * I don't have a problem with that, but we know very little about most of the lightsabers. We would end up with even more stub articles. TopAce 17:41 18(?) Oct 2005 GMT +1
 * We know a fair bit about the lightsabers of the major characters (and some minor ones). Seeing as this Wiki is supposed to be evolving into the definitive Star Wars guide, I suggest we eventually add entries like this, to make it totally comprehensive - Kwenn
 * Yup. If we can get a decent picture and a history for an individual lightsaber - should be easy for some of the movie ones - then I say go for it. But: I'd say that if a character has had several lightsabers then all of theirs should be on the same article. --beeurd 19:25, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Doomed?
Is the 'We're doomed!' still actual? TopAce 17:42 18(?) Oct 2005 GMT +1

Bending the Light
In Clone Wars, Kit Fisto's Lightsaber seems to bend underwater. Light bends in water and a laser is nothing but light. The reason his saber bended, was the light around the saber bended or was the lightsader its self bended? Double D 19:02, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Could be some kind of optical effect created by the water KEJ 19:06, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * the thin about light bendin in water is true, but it only bends if it goes from water to air(or glass, or whatever) and vice-versa. The reason for the bending is that Kit Fisto constructed a light whip (wich bends)

Lightsaber vs. Lightsabre

 * The section is now updated. Opinions are welcome. TopAce 18:38, 21 Oct 2005, (GMT +1)

Really! Is this section necessary at all? I mean who cares if it's 'lightsaber' or 'lightsabre'? This is a linguistic question regarding varieties of English and is kind of irrelevant. I mean if the american way of spelling it is the correct one because Star Wars was developed by an american, then it implies that everything written in English about Star Wars should be in American English spelling.


 * That's downright incorrect. You can write ANYTHING in British English about Star Wars. Things like grey-coloured lightsaber are correct. Why shouldn't they be? If you are observant you can noticed that two out of three words are purely British and the lightsaber must be used in both British and American English. Lightsaber is a proper name, colour and grey(which is an adjective) are not. TopAce 1 Nov 2005, GMT +1


 * I was actually trying to argue that you can write Star Wars stuff in British English, but probably didn't formulate it clearly enough. I wanted to point out that the argument that 'lightsaber' has to be in American spelling because Star Wars was created by an American is a bit silly, and if that was really the case, then everything would have to be written in american English (since this implication is so bizarre, I figured I wouldn't have to elaborate on it in order to get the point through - I see now that maybe I should have). I don't really care which variety of English is the more correct one, and I think that the 'lightsaber'-vs-'lightsabre' debate is quite pointless (but then again I'm not a native speaker of English, so I don't have any emotional attachment to either of the varieties). KEJ 00:16, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Just wanted to add my two cents. A wise man on wikipedia once said: "If only the British would accept American writing, and the Americans would accept the metric system of the British, the world be a better place." Adamwankenobi 00:35, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * So, it'd be a bit like Canada, then? 8) Back on the topic at hand -- the "sabre vs. saber" section seems to me to be too long.  It could be replaced by something short like The word "saber" is usually spelled "sabre" in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries, though "saber" is more common in the United States.  As most Star Wars materials, including the film novelizations and the published screenplays, are first published in the United States, the spelling "lightsaber" is used in almost all canonical sources.  Thus, this wiki uses "lightsaber" for consistency.  &mdash; Silly Dan  00:45, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * That's good KEJ 11:36, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)

You guys should do like the Harry Potter wiki (British spellings) and Memory Alpha (American spellings) and standardise it with the "proper" spellings used in the country of origin... In this case, American English. It will simplify things not to mention look a LOT better consistency-wise And that's coming from a proud Brit.
 * That is what we do (see Manual of Style). It's just that lightsaber, being the most popular article on this wiki which could be spelled differently in UK or many Commonwealth Englishes, may need a note explaining the spelling.  &mdash; Silly Dan  01:24, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Is this section too long to you? :wtf: It seems okay to me. - TopAce 15:10, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, you're the one who wrote it, of course it seems OK to you. I think all the information needed is in the two sentences I wrote above.  (But of course I'd think that, I wrote it!  8) ) &mdash; Silly Dan  01:31, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I was thinking of going ahead and shortening it. Anyone else object?  &mdash; Silly Dan  00:44, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Shorten it down? For my sake you can eliminate it completely KEJ 14:41, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * No, don't eliminate. Just shorten. --Master Starkeiller 17:37, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Needless to say, I still think this section is totally irrelevant. There must be more interesting behind-the-scenes-stuff than how to spell 'lightsaber' correctly. But yeah, shorten it down (as much as possible) KEJ 17:53, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, how does it look now? I think it contains all the information the old version did, but in fewer words.  &mdash; Silly Dan  18:10, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks good KEJ 10:29, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Pictures
We need to stop putting so many pictures in this article. It just isn't long enough to handle so many (although the length itself is indicitive of how many problems the article has). -- SFH 01:52, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC) The main picture entitled "An Ignited Lightsaber" is a computer generated image and a bad one at that. Someone find a picture from a movie or a Force FX lightsaber. And before you start, I know all lightsabers are computer generated.
 * Problems? Lightsabers are a central part of the Star Wars; therefore the length of the article, I think, is understandable. But, yeah, I agree that there shouldn't be more pictures in the article KEJ 00:12, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * However, the first image needs to be replaced, since it's fan art - Kwenn
 * The ignited lightsaber one? Are you sure? Darn, I liked that one. Could we find another picture of an ignited saber not being held by someone? -- SFH 19:24, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Definately fanmade: it's from Nebulous Designs, an online graphic art site. How about this image? I could remove the labels, or perhaps just use one of the sabres; Anakin's is the most famous - Kwenn
 * Those will do, but you should remove the labels. And go with Anakin's. -- SFH 19:41, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Cutaway View
I was doing some Google image searches and found some websites that have cutaway views of inside a lightsaber. But I have never uploaded images on to wiki, and i'm not sure if the pictures I found can be used (copyright and all) but here are a couple websites that have cutaway views... Maybe someone could add one of the cutaway views to the article (I think it would be good to see the inside of a lightsaber shown in the article). These websites show cutaway views of inside a lightsaber: http://thelightsaber.com/anatomy.htm#, http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber3.htm, http://groups.msn.com/StarWarsTheJediCouncil/lightsabers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=132, and, http://www.ast.leeds.ac.uk/haverah/lsaber.shtml 70.109.238.5 04:36, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)

141.154.161.92 17:38, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a cross-section of a lightsaber in the article, it would be a great addition to the "Construction details" section. I'm not sure if those images are protected by copyright or not, and I'm not sure how to upload images. But maybe someone else can put a cross-section image into the article...
 * I think all of the images linked to above except for the 2nd one are from the Star Wars Visual Dictionary. The first site uses HTML trickery to get the green highlights, which isn't feasible on the wiki. I'm also not sure they use all of the same captions as the book. The 2nd and 3rd sites use correct captions. I can scan a better image on Friday, but I'm not sure how the captions will turn out.-LtNOWIS 00:39, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Here it is: Image:Lightsaber-cutaway.jpg. I can shrink it down, but I wanted to preserve all the detail.-LtNOWIS 03:11, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks good. I think it would be cool to see that in the Construction Details section, so people can see what's inside a lightsaber, rather than just reading about it. 151.203.153.84 03:25, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Water and lightsabers/lightwhip
I wanted to know what was the source that said Kit Fisto used a lightwhip. He problably just used a waterproof lightsaber. I've seen somewhere a discussion about lightsabers being or not waterproof that concluded that it was probably dependant on the way the lightsabers were built, as sometimes they broke underwater, but sometimes they didn't.--Lyon-Ard the Skywalker 01:27, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * He briefly used a light whip in the book Cestus Deception, pretending to be one of Dooku's Dark Cadre. And he uses a special lightsaber that can be used underwater. Razzy1319 02:59, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok. Thanks for the help.--Lyon-Ard the Skywalker 20:28, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Lightsaber Building
When do jedi build their first lightsaber? It says they use training ones, but, for Example: when does Obi-wan build his first lightsaber? is it when they are accepted as apprentices? or before then? --Eon Kaaz 20:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Building a lightsaber was one of the final steps of Padawanship, it was a long process and normally only completed nearing their trials. --Xhysa 23:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Sith Red Sabers
I read this elsewhere, and can't remember where(it was a website, so I don't even know if it's canon), but due to the crystals the Sith use to make their lightsabers, their lightsabers have a chance of "breaking" the blades of other lightsabers. Is this canon? I know it didn't happen in any of the movies, but I've read only a very few Star Wars books..--Vercalos 05:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Right here. Synth-crystal Thanos6 07:52, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Here we delve into the shadow-world of fanon. No sith lightsaber has ever broken the blade of another lightsaber, this is completely false. However, sith blades may indeed be marginally stronger, cutting through other materials more quickly, etc.--Erl 03:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Colors
OK, one, that section is very repetitive. Two, I thought we agreed that Consulars/Guardians/etc. were just game mechanics and not "real" titles. Thanos6 07:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber Variants
ERM. wat the ...all thisn new stuff....the new types lightaxe light spear etc this cannot all be canon. seriosuly? JediDude

No way it can. It needs a serious re write. I'll get to work on it. Also, for future reference, new topics should be started at the bottom. -- SFH 19:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Improvement Drive
Sure, there's three days to go, but I'm pretty sure that its going to win this sunday, and if it doesn't it probably will in the near future. So I'm getting in early, what needs to be done precisely? I would personally like the whole plasma thing re-written, there are plenty of resources stating that it has nothing to do with plasma, but yet its on the article. It also seems rather sloppely made and editted, not neat at all. Any other ideas? -- Xhysa 20:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Blaster-Lightsaber Inconsistencies
The article states in the introduction that early jedi created metal blades which they sharpened and imbued with the power to block blaster bolts, but after the section explaining how lightsabers were invented it states that the blaster was invented following the lightsaber.


 * The "Jedi Forge" technique and the invention of blasters seem to have occurred at about the same time (about 25,000 BBY). Nathan's Timeline Gold puts the introduction of blasters at 25-15,000 BBY.  By most accounts, though, lightsabers weren't invented until 9000 BBY at the earliest. Also, I don't think it's a good idea to delve too deeply into the concept of the Jedi Forge, or previous weapons used by the Jedi, in this article. Would it be better to edit that part of the history to read something more simplistic, like:
 * "Since the formation of the Tython Jedi around 25,000 BBY, ceremonial weapons have been an integral part of the Jedi. Although the first Knights used swords imbued with the Force through the Jedi Forge ritual, the invention of the first lightsabers paved the way for what would become not only the weapon of choice among Knights, but the very symbol of the Jedi Order." SonofNils 21:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Historical Corrections and tidying
The History of the saber needs to be tightened up. For example, since the first lightsabers weren't invented until much later, the long intro about the dawn of the Jedi c. 25,000 BBY is really not needed. A brief 1-sentence summary pertaining to the Jedi Knights can lead into the invention of the first lightsabers. Also, the dates need to be corrected. Here, the article says that the lightsaber was created 6-5k BBY, but other information suggests it was first created in 9000 BBY. If nothing else, the noted text here should be qualified to read as "modern lightsabers", or something of the like, so as to differentiate the "archaic" seige sabers from the elegant weapons that do not require belt or back-mounted powerpacks. SonofNils 19:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I've had a chance to go back through the New Essential Chronology, and these dates for lightsabers areway off! Does anyone know where the 9,000 BBY and 9,990 BBY "invention" dates came from?  I also saw a note in the discussion for Tulak Hord that says the New Chronology locked in the date of invention as 10,000 BBY, but that's not what I've read.  I have an article in the works that has all the dates and coinciding events as described in the most recent canon.  I'll have it plosted in the next day or two after a solid proof-reading. SonofNils 16:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Resources for Date Changes to History
SonofNils 20:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * 25 to 15,000 BBY - Invention of "freezing" laser beam (refers to the use of the Jedi forges): New Essential Chronology, pg 5.
 * 15,500 BBY - 1st lightsabers unstable, power-hungry (coincides with the Duinuogwuin Contention): New Essential Chronology, pg 6.
 * 7,000 BBY - lightsabers are "more robust", better designed: New Essential Chronology, pg 7.
 * 4,800 BBY - modern lightsabers introduced (mentions "after the Great Hyperspace War and "around the time of the Gank Massacres"): New Essential Chronology, pg 12.

Revisiting Methods of Use
To better organize the article and to prevent duplication of information, I think the list of lightsaber forms should be taken out and replaced with a brief explanation of the lightsaber as an elegant weapon and symbol of justice. Within that description should be the link to lightsaber combat, which more appropriately goes on to detail the various forms and maneuvers. - SonofNils 15:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * As there were no posted objections to the idea, I have editted the Methods of Use Section to streamline the article and eliminate duplicate info between this article and the linked lightsaber combat article. Seems much more appropriate to take out the list of saber forms and keep them in 1 place. SonofNils 18:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber Cutting Power
Ok, maybe i missed this somewhere in the article, but is there any metal that can permantantly withstand a lightsaber? The article lists a few that are "notable exceptions", but can any of those permanantly resist a lightsaber's cutting power? Eon Kaaz 20:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think anything can really be considered "permanently withstandable", especially when it comes to lightsabers. The closest I think that comes to indestructable vs. lightsaber blades is refined cortosis with all the impurities removed.  Wizards of the Coast describes this in Gamer  and then clarifies inJedi Counseling  for the roleplaying game, and says that cortosis shields made with the refined ore do not have the weaker metals for the lightsaber to damage, and so are not damaged before the lightsaber shorts out. SonofNils 20:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, but when they say they say that a metal, for example, mandalorian iron, is a notable exception, then is there any place which tells how long it can withstand the blade? -Eon Kaaz 20:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Not to my knowledge. It only describes such materials as countering the usual unstoppability of lightsabers.  I would imagine that the particulars would rely heavily on the individual circumstances (how thick the armor, the intent of the saber wielder, etc etc).  SonofNils 20:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

short lightsabers
can you get more informations on short lightsabers?(this is my first post so please b nice):} Hicups0002 17:41,20 March 2006


 * What else is there to a short lightsaber, save to say that it is like other lightsabers in all but one aspect: it's...well... short?  Seriously, what kind of info are you looking for in particular? SonofNils 22:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

(p.s. Welcome!)

Hicups0002 13:52,21 March 2006
 * well r there any people(of like normal size) who weild them for starters and do they have a particular style all there own or do jedi just integrate them intootherstyles?
 * Several. Usually they are used in a double-bladed style together with a normal length, and are usually incorporated into the original style of the Jedi--Erl 22:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * what original style would that be and is there a style not using any other lightsaber types? Hicups0002 22:41 28,March 2006
 * I believe by "original style of the Jedi", Erl is referring to the established forms and styles detailed in lightsaber combat. -SonofNils 13:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)