Forum:SH Archive/FAN/GAN subpage discussion

Note: This discussion was moved from Forum:CT:Tweaking the FAN/GAN pages as it had moved too far off of the original topic. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 21:15, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

I've often wondered if setting up the FAN and GAN pages as forums (like we've done with the Trash compactor) would be a good idea. That way, each nomination would get its own page, and it would be easy to see which had been recently updated. When a nom passes, there wouldn't need to be a copy/paste of the successful nom into a new page, just a page move and possibly a template change. I haven't given it enough thought to think of any possible downsides or decide if it was an idea worth pursuing, though. jSarek 23:33, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * That actually sounds like a much better idea to me and, aside from the benefits JSarek mentioned, it would allow me to edit the FAN page from my phone, something I can't do practically because of the page's KB size. —Tommy 9281 23:38, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't had any experience with them personally, but as a note, nomination sub-pages have been experimented with before on the GAN, but were eventually decided to be discontinued. Jonjedigrandmaster  Jedi symbol.svg ( We seed the stars ) 23:40, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * To clarify, both the ACs and the Inqs have had this discussion and have deemed such an implementation to be supremely ineffective&mdash;test runs have proved that they get nominations looked at even less than they already are.  CC7567  (talk) 23:44, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong, but after looking through the logs of those meetings, it appears the primary reason for rejecting subpages was "out of sight, out of mind". A solution to that might be to put all nominations on their own subpages (I'm talking the whole thing from the article name header to the end of the comments section, not just the objections as was trialed on GAN) from the beginning, and then transclude each subpage on the main FAN or GAN page. The FAN and GAN pages would look similar, if not exactly identical, to before, but the wikitext of the page would look [ something like this], and clicking section edit links would edit the transcluded page as seen here. This would keep all noms visible in one place but make editing easier. It would also allow extra section headers on subpages to break up big noms (possibly even a separate section for each objector if necessary), while the size of the TOC on the main page can be controlled with TOClimit. Would this be an idea worth considering, or am I way out in left field here? &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 00:59, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm comprehending this incorrectly, but if one nomination subpage yields no results, I fail to see why multiple ones would.  CC7567  (talk) 01:02, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * What I saw when this was trialed on GAN is that the objections were moved to a subpage, and then linked to from the main page. Most likely, what happened was that people browsed the GAN page for an article to review but ignored the ones on subpages that they couldn't immediately see in favor of the ones still on the main page that they could see. I was actively reviewing GANs at that time, and I know that was the case with me. With this idea, after putting noms on subpages, those pages are then rather than linked . The result is that the noms are not "out of sight/out of mind"; they are displayed on the main page in full exactly as they are now, but via transcluding subpages rather than 200+ KB of text on the main page. Not that I like to cite Wikipedia, but their AFD log pages show a good example of what I'm talking about. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 01:20, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely agree. In order for a real trial to be done, everything would need to be converted. This might be impractical, but that would be the best say to do it. Also, I've always felt that the reason it wasn't don was general laziness anyway. That said, there is one inherent problem that I've acknowledged before: keeping a count updated on the main FAN/GAN page of the appropriate votes. If only subpages are updated, it becomes a difficult task knowing how many votes a nom has, unless there is some line of code that can relay that information via template, html, or javascript. But, Jonathan's idea, if it works, would be an excellent idea to remedy this. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 02:30, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vote counts would not be an issue, as they would be transcluded from the subpage along with the rest of the nom, and as long as the counts remain headers, they will appear in the TOC of the main page. Also, so far I've only given a Wikipedia page and a rough idea in my userspace as examples; tomorrow I'll put a better example using an abridged version of the GAN page in my userspace. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 02:38, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * If I understood this sub-page system correctly we have been using it in Finnish Jedipedia something like a year now and it works quite well for us. There isn't that many FA/GA noms than here (for obvious reasons, it being so much smaller) but sub-pages make things easier if there is a one particular nom you want to read about.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 09:51, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I read it, another advantage of Jonathan's solution would be that watching would be easier. You only watch the noms that you're interested in (probably your own ones and where you objected) and your watchlist doesn't get cluttered with other nominations.  Pranay Sobusk  ~  Talk  15:17, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be correct. I actually overlooked that one earlier. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 15:47, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Subpage demonstration
OK, here is my promised demonstration. I took the first ten noms on GAN, copied then to my userspace, and transitioned the whole thing to the subpage idea. The sample GAN page is here, and list of the individual subpages can be found here. In making the transition, the abridged GAN page went from approx. 184 KB to 7.5 KB, a reduction of approximately 96%. Each subpage now utilizes multiple section headers for ease of editing. The issue that prompted the original proposal for this CT is no longer a problem, as the name of the subpage itself identifies the article in question. TOClimit is used on the main page to control the size of the TOC. Users can browse the main page to pick an article to review, then click on any section edit link to jump directly to the subpage. Any thoughts, suggestions, etc. would be welcome. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 15:47, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like it! It solves my concerns, anyways, and it looks like it solves the others too.  I will vote for this, if and when it becomes a choice (or is this now what "Accept Proposal" refers to?) Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:41, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the voting options above only refer to the minor reformatting described at the top of this page. As the subpage idea is totally different, it would probably be handled in a separate CT thread. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 16:48, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * This was tried on the GAN page before, in this very same fashion, and it was rejected after my Darth Nihilus GAN and another that they tried it with were finished. I'd suggest researching why by asking any ACs that were involved and tweaking it accordingly. Overall on this issue I express a strong indifference however. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 19:59, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * As stated above where I initially proposed this idea, I read through the chat logs of the AC and Inq meetings in which the idea was rejected, and it appears that the problem was that people ignored them because they weren't visible on the main page. My proposal fixes that by transcluding the subpages on the main page, rather than linking them as was done in last years trial. &mdash;Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 20:13, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jonathan, now you're starting to encroach on the respective territories of the AgriCorps and Inquisitorius. This is not something for you or this forum to decide. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 20:25, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, Tranner, if the community decided to overhaul the pages, they have the right. The FAN and GAN pages are community pages, not just project pages like WP:INQ and WP:AC. That said, this discussion should be elsewhere as it has grown to far away from the parent topic. &mdash; Fiolli  {Alpheridies University ComNet} 20:37, April 6, 2010 (UTC)