Talk:Obi-Wan Kenobi/Archive2

Obi-Wan's Masterhood
I am confused on when Obi-Wan Kenobi was promoted to the rank of Jedi Master. I have always thought he was a knight right before the Clone Wars, yet I couldn't help but noticed that in Episode II, Taun We addresses him as "Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi". Could someone clear this up?


 * Taun We assumed he was a Jedi Master, as Sifo-Dyas was of this rank. --Shon Kon Ray 17:12, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * and people refer to the Jedi as Masters often (and often the Jedi say im only a padawan etc), just like how the whole order is often called Jedi Knights Jedi Dude 17:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Obi-Wan's Potential
At the absolute maximum, how powerful does anyone think Obi-Wan could have become, at the absolute maximum?


 * it doesn't matter, discussion pages are not for this kind of topic, it would be better to go to a discussion board. Jedi Dude 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Removal of Quotes?!?!
There seems to be a lack of quotes where there used to be, at the head of topic headings, i swear Legacy used to have a quote and Geonosis Jedi Dude 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

"I have a bad fell about this."
In TPM, what was Obi-Wan sencing in the beginning, Qui-Gon's future death? Double D 12:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm fairly sure he was referring to the Trade Federation trying to assassinate them in the beginning of the film, but you may be right. Totema1 20:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

But he said, it was something esle-where, plus before Qui-Gon was stabbed in the chest, Obi-Wan's mouth began to oper more and more, like he knew it was coming. Just before it happened, his mouth widely opened. 75.4.81.22 12:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC) (Double D)


 * i think he was simply just saying, he has a bad feeling, no visions about Qui's death, just a feeling. Jedi Dude 12:37, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

You could be right, but i doubt that is true, cause some things forshadow other things, plus I don't think Obi-Wan would had said it if it had no real meaning to it. Double D 21:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Something elsewhere, elusive...sounds an awful lot like...Darth Sidious, no? He's got a bad feeling about the plot behind the more obvious matter of the blockade. Qui-Gon, in tune with the here-and-now, sees only the trade dispute, and not the bigger picture. As to Obi-Wan's precognition at Qui-Gon's death, yes, he does appear to realize Qui-Gon is about to die, but I assume he gets that premonition at that moment; a sudden feeling of dread, perhaps. Certainly not something he's thought about from the start, otherwise he would no doubt have been more protective of his master - Kwenn 21:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * it wasn't a vision though, he had feelings. He knew something was up, the dark side covers everything but i don't think he knew anythin pacific. Jedi Dude 22:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Why should Kenobi's cruelty to Anakin NOT be mentioned here?
One of the most disturbing parts of ROTS for me was when Anakin was literally burning alive and all Obi-Wan did was stand there and watch dispassionately instead of using the Force to levitate him away from the lava flow. This is supposed to be one of the good guys? It doesn't matter if Anakin's crazy or even downright evil, anybody with any sense of decency would have DONE SOMETHING!

So here's what I wrote:

"As Vader cried out his everlasting hatred for Kenobi, Obi-Wan took his former Padawan's blue lightsaber and left Vader to die painfully from his burns (as opposed to ther other options of bringing the now-helpless Anakin along for medical and psychological treatment or simply putting him out of his misery). This decision would later come back to haunt Obi-Wan upon his discovery that Vader had survived; he wondered if his abandonment of Vader on Mustafar had in fact made Vader feel even more angry and betrayed, resulting in his further immersion in the dark side."

But all that got wiped out by somebody named Petiflo.

I think that Kenobi's cruelty here deserves to be mentioned, and the part about him having second thoughts about abandoning Vader comes right out of the last pages of Dark Lord by James Luceno.

In most fiction, the difference between good guys and bad is that the good guys display mercy, often to the point of saving the lives of evil people. In my not-so-humble opinion, NOBODY deserves to suffer the way Anakin did on Mustafar, no matter what they've done. There is only one person I would wish death by burning on: Palpatine, and only because he slowly killed one of Bevel Lemelisk's clones that way.

Finally, I'd like to point out that Obi-Wan left Anakin behind because he thought it would be impossible to redeem him. Obi-Wan obviously didn't know anything, because decades later Luke succeeded in bringing Anakin back from the dark side in less than 48 hours. This means that Obi-Wan and Yoda were dead WRONG when they kept saying there was no more good left inside Anakin. And if Luke was able to bring his father around in only a day or two, imagine what Obi-Wan, Yoda, Padme, and whomever else they got to help could have done to make him see reason if he were confined to a prison cell and they had as much time as they needed to talk to him and make him see the error of his ways? If they had sone so, the Darth Vader we know today never would have come to exist and the galaxy would have been better for it.

Instead, Obi-Wan decided Anakin was damaged goods. That he not only wasn't worth saving, but he wasn't even deserving of a quick and merciful death. He left Anakin to burn slowly, die slowly, like people did to witches in the middle ages. Anakin, understandably, hated him for it. That hatred made him into the creature we see in Episodes IV, V and most of VI. So...way to go, Kenobi.
 * Obi-Wan knew Anakin had turned to the dark side, and Anakin refused to return to the light. Had Obi-Wan saved Anakin, Anakin would have likely killed Obi-Wan for what he had done to him. Obi-Wan did what he had to. Plus, Obi-Wan thought Anakin was dead, until Dark Lord. That's why Obi-Wan had second thoughts about leaving him on Mustafar, because he knew that Anakin wouldn't have been recovered and transformed into the armor-wearing Darth Vader. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You're rationalizing because you seem to think Obi-Wan is some kind of saint. He's not. You saw Anakin, you saw how helpless he was after losing his legs and lone arm. He was burned all over. If you really think he still had the power, in that condition, to pose any kind of threat to Kenobi, why the hell didn't he strike at Kenobi with the Force instead of merely yelling how much he hated him? Plus, if you look at the novel by Luceno, Kenobi wonders if it was wrong to leave Anakin BEFORE HE FINDS OUT ANAKIN IS STILL ALIVE! This is ridiculous, have you got no sympathy for Anakin at all? Is this all black and white to you? Anakin was bad so anything that happens to him, no matter how agonizing, is something he deserves? COME ON!

Oh yeah, Obi-Wan made only a token effort to try to get Anakin to return to the light side. He argued with him for a couple minutes and that was it. He just gave up and said "You made your bed pal, now burn in it. Cause that's how we old-school Jedi roll; we don't display any mercy to our enemies and don't care how much they suffer. That's what makes us so virtuous." To Obi-Wan's credit, he did warn Anakin against trying to make that leap, but afterwards he did NOTHING. Nothing but rant and rave about how Anakin had disappointed him...and while he was ranting and raving, Anakin was sliding toward the lava flow. I'm having a very hard time watching my language here because I'm so angry at the character, who shows none of the kindliness or likeability of the old man we see in ANH, and I'm angry at Lucas for turning Kenobi into such a (insert expletive here).

With somebody like Anakin you have to have something akin to an intervention. You have to imprison him, you have to keep on talking to him with Yoda and Padme (if she can be persuaded to live by the hope that she might be able to redeem Anakin), you have to do this night and day in shifts and if you spend a week or two at this and he's still completely insane and evil, then you kill him quickly and painlessly. That would have been the right thing to do.

Finally, those Jedi were hypocrites. The willingness of Windu to abandon "the Jedi way" just because it was expedient illustrates that either there was something wrong with "the Jedi way" or there was something wrong with Windu himself. Either way, there was something wrong with the Jedi and they were most certainly not infallible and they were most certainly not always a force for good.


 * this conversation is getting off the point, this talk page is for article discussions not points of view :) Jedi Dude 23:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And opinions are not allowed on articles, anon. Keep your opinions and hate against Kenobi to yourself. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * So where am I allowed to express my opinions then? Not in the article, I understand that, but according to Jedi Dude not even on the discussion page?


 * By the way, when I write something like "Obi-Wan made no attempt to save him" that is not opinion, that is fact, and as a fact is has a place in the article. If I write that he left Vader to die painfully, that is also a fact, albeit a tough one for Obi-Wan fanboys to accept.

Obi-Wan was not feeling merciful. --Milo fett 15:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Now if I were to add something to the article like "Obi-Wan treated Anakin more like a slave than a friend, telling him to be quiet and know his place instead of joining in a discussion of strategy with his 'betters'," or if I were to write that "Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi forbade Anakin to check on his mother even when he had known for months that she was in trouble, with the unfortunate result that when he finally did get to her she was dying. If they had let him go sooner then she could have been saved," or if I wrote "Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi lived hollow, empty lives devoid of pleasure or fun and expected Anakin to do the same. When he was taken into the order nobody told him what he would be giving up, that he would be giving up the right to fall in love, to raise a family, to enjoy himself, all of the things we take for granted as normal people. Anakin had wanted to escape slavery to Watto and thought that becoming a Jedi would be cool and fun, but instead he became a slave to the Jedi Order, becoming the servant boy of all the Knights and Masters," then you're right, that would have no place in the article. But on the discussion page? Why not? Give me one good reason why not. --HanShotFirst 04:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Because all of those statement or about the characters, not the article. When you said "why shouldn't I mention this in the article" then yes that was alright, because you refered to the article. But those talkpages are not to debate about how a character was treated by the others. --Petiflo 15:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In the ROTS novel, it says that it would be a mercy to just kill Anakin right then and there.

Obi-Wan in all six films?

 * I was wondering if it should state under the trivia section that aside from the droids R2-D2, and C3PO, Obi-Wan Kenobi is the only Star Wars character to appear in all six films. For those of you who are thinking it, yes, Anakin appears in all six films, as the movies are his story. However he was Darth Vader in the suit for the latter half of the saga, and doesn't redeem himself as Anakin Skywalker until ROTJ. So it can be argued that Anakin wasn't in all six films, "from a certain point of view". (Just had to say that!) - Impassioned Jedi 11:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus, all that is seen of Vader in ANH is his armor, whereas in TESB and ROTJ his head is seen. - Milo Fett Comlink 15:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Image deletion?

 * The Knighthood section looks a little cluttered with images, I was wondering if it would be all right to remove this image:

I'm asking because this is a "Featured Article", and don't want to compromise it. - Impassioned Jedi 11:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest the removal of more than one image. The article is far too image-heavy. Don't worry about Featured status - most of the article's pictures seem to have been added SINCE then. QuentinGeorge 11:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Guinness hated being Kenobi

 * I noticed this further up on the page. I heard he was unhappy that his character was being killed off in the first film. This, of course, was before Lucas decided to bring him back as a spirit. He must have liked the part enough to want to play Kenobi in two more films.--Darth Oblivion 18:31, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think it's more to do with the fact that he became best-known for playing Obi-Wan over all his other classic films. Kinda like how Patrick Stewart, a classical actor, is mostly known only for Picard, or Sir Ian McKellen only for Gandalf or Magneto - Kwenn 18:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, he hated the film and the dialogue. In several sources, he claims that it was his idea to die halfway, not Lucas' .  .  .  .  22:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In the commentary of A New Hope, Lucas claims that Guinness wasn't happy about the script re-write in which Obi-Wan is killed. So, it would seem one of them is lying. Either Guinness didn't really hate the films, or Lucas just doesn't want people to know that he did.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 21:49, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Guinness! all body, a promotional image. Hope you like it. -- Jabbathehuttgartogg   20:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Like it but it's in black and white and I think that some users will like the old one better.  Jaina Solo  Goddess Stuff [[Image:Jbig3.JPG |20px]] 20:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It just isn't a very good image, in my opinion. - Angel Blue 451 20:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it matters if its B/W. Now, sorry. I forgot to talk about it here. Sp people don't get confused on what image it's this:

-- Jabbathehuttgartogg   20:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's blurry, and it looks like he's leaning on a lightsaber prop, which kind of goes against the in-universe grain. Plus, being black and white, it doesn't fit well with the other main pics in other articles (besides Jaden Korr, and there is a good reason that that has little color). It just isn't a very good pic for the article, in my opinion. - Angel Blue 451 20:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * How about this:
 * We already had that picture uploaded. QuentinGeorge 20:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I actually think that was the main pic for a while, though I was on haitus when it was removed, I think, so I'm not sure why it was removed. I don't know that I would object, if we can find a higher-res version (anybody want to make a screencap?) and a suitable replacement for the Exile section where the image currently is. - Angel Blue 451 20:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Obi-Wan & OB1
I would argue that "Wan" sounds like "Juan" not "one."--Etapelba 08:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Untidy
The article is in a bit of a mess. I've noticed some grammatical errors and this:

"Together, Obi-Wan and his master would foil the schemes of Qui-Gon's second Padawan, Xanatos, catching up with the Dark Jedi on Telos. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon then watched as Xanatos jumped in a pool of acid, rather than surrender. It would be while foiling Xanatos Obi-Wan was forced to fight his long time rival Bruck Chun, Obi-Wan triumphed when Bruck fell off a ledge and died, however the guilt would haunt Obi-Wan for many years.

the Battle of Naboo and both of them participated in the colonization of Alaris Prime, where they faced the Trade Federation for control of the moon."

Where it jumps from one paragraph to one that starts off a bit confusingly.
 * Tagged for cleanup. QuentinGeorge 05:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

C'mon guys, it sould not be Duel on the Death Star, it should be post-Battle of Yavin.BobafettH23 23:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but that is why I put POST-Battle of Yavin.BobafettH23 23:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC) Ah, I see, I forgot what the difference beetween post and pre, thanks, but I still disagree, but if it makes wikipedia better it's good with me.BobafettH23 23:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC) Well, I would settle for Kenobi's last standBobafettH23 00:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC) If we could do that I would really like it. Everybody winsBobafettH23 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But it took place before the Battle of Yavin. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 23:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Post means after while pre means before. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 23:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Post = After. You probably meant Pre-Battle of Yavin.  That, however, would be much to general for a section header, in my opinion. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 23:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd like to understand why you disagree. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 23:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The section is about Obi-Wan's final confrontation with his former apprentice on the Death Star. I don't know any other title that would fit. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 23:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That could work. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 00:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't see how "Kenobi's last stand" is any more appropriate than "Duel on the Death Star". In fact, I'd say it's less so, since "Duel on the Death Star" is more informative. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, then we need a Battle of the Deathstar, because if you remember, Luke Han and Leia, and chewy fought stormtroopers on the deathstarBobafettH23 00:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The event is covered in their respective articles also. Remember, this article is about Kenobi, and therefore should cover his side of things. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I still think it's better because it highlights his death, and.....the fight.BobafettH23 00:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

.................BobafettH23 00:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see how "Duel on the Death Star" is less descriptive. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, mine idea states that he dies and fights.BobafettH23

Not from my point of viewBobafettH23 00:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Why note? -  Angel Blue (Holonet) 00:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Because kenobi's last stand is stating that he fought, died, it's more straight foreword.BobafettH23 00:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Any of these sound good? -  Angel Blue (Holonet) 00:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but "Duel on the Death Star" is much more straightforward and encyclopedic. -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How about some alternatives:
 * Last stand on the Death Star
 * Sacrifice on the Death Star
 * Final duel on the Death Star

Last stand on the deathstar is good with me. By the way, you put up a good debate, do you mind if I add you too my friend list?BobafettH23 00:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Thanks.BobafettH23 01:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not at all. Feel free to sign my guestbook too (just remember to put comments in the comments subsection of the guestbook). -  Angel Blue [[Image:Holocron negwt.jpg|20px]](Holonet) 00:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Source

 * Can anyone give the source for the sandpeople confrontation whilst in exile? Thanks! Purpilia 00:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that story is from the Legacy of the Jedi/Secrets of the Jedi omnibus. --Etapelba 22:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is Obi-Wan still called a Knight after he became a Master?
I've noticed the Obi-Wan has often been called a Jedi Knight after becoming a Master, even in post-ROTS publications.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron 01:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC) "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace, and justice in the Old Republic"
 * I think all Masters are Knights, but not all Knights are Masters. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 01:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "Knight" is a generic term, as well as a rank. The Jedi are often collectively called "The Jedi Knights", despite the internal ranks.

- Obi-Wan Kenobi...himself!


 * That's what I thought. In the Behind the scenes section it says he was incorrectly called a Jed Knight. If nobody minds, I'll be removing it.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 04:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

In the picture of Anakin and Obi Wan from the clone wars Cartoons......
The caption reads " famed Jedi Generals Obi wan Kenobi and Anakain Skywalker. Anakin was never a Jedi General and the caption needs to not indicate this, if you have proof that he was a general please post it, if not do not revert my edits please thanlks
 * Yes, Anakin was a general. After he became a knight and Obi-Wan became a master, they were promoted in the army command hierarchy. Anakin became a general and Obi-Wan became a high general. Darth Vatrir

"Obi Wan through the years"
That image looks like fanon to me. Can you source that, uploader? (This one: Image:Obiwan.JPG) Maclimes Zero''' (talk) 22:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the image from the article, and reposted it here. Can anyone provide a canon source for this image before we put it back in the article? Maclimes Zero''' (talk) [[Image:Infinite_Empire.png|10px]] 22:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)