Wookieepedia:Mofferences/Log/2014 June 29

[00:01:21]  Welcome to the Mofference. [00:01:28]  I bid you Dark Greetings! [00:01:32]  We'll begin with the first agenda item. [00:01:38]  Which is Toprawa's. [00:01:44]  He's not here, so I'll present for him. [00:01:53] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:02:02] * Pascal (~deus@redacted) has joined [00:02:13]  The issue is whether to move Expanded Universe to Star Wars Legends [00:02:18] * Pascal is now known as Guest16032 [00:02:27]  If you haven't already, please read the proposal on the meeting page. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Mofferences#Agenda [00:02:33]  It's explained there in detail. [00:02:44]  I'll give everyone a few moments to read that, then we'll open it for discussion. [00:03:12]  Ok, ecks, please open for discussion. [00:03:16] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:03:19]  Makes sense to me. [00:03:20] the floor is open [00:03:26]  This seems like a no-brainer [00:03:33] yeah, go ahead and move it [00:03:45] agreed [00:03:46]  I agree. It's being called Star Wars Legends now in official releases, so that's what we should call it. [00:03:49] * grunny (~grunny@wikia/vstf/countervandalism.user.Grunny) has joined [00:03:49] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to grunny [00:03:51] * Darth_Culator has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:03:53] * Opferkobold has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:03:53]  Without a doubt [00:04:02] * Culator|Away is now known as Darth_Culator [00:04:03]  Obligatory railing at LFL and disney for the fuckery in the first place. [00:04:04]  All for it [00:04:08] <MasterJonathan> per Cav [00:04:11] <Darth_Culator> ^ [00:04:13] * Toprawa has quit (Disconnected by services) [00:04:20] * ecks has changed the topic to: Wookieepedia, the Star Wars legends wiki - http://wookieepedia.com - Channel/site status:MOREFEFEFEREENCE - Swanson wisdom of the day: "Put some alcohol in your mouth to block the words from coming out." - Quotes: http://wqdb.zervonn.net/quotes [00:04:22] <IFYLOFD> Rabble rabble rabble [00:04:32] * Cade|Skyrim has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:04:41] * Ralltiir is now known as Toprawa [00:04:42] <Toprawa> Ok, I think we're pretty much clear on it [00:04:45] * Jorrel|Mobile has quit (Quit: Bye) [00:04:46] * Nuku-Nuku has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:04:46] <Toprawa> I'll open this for voting now. [00:04:48] * Pichu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:04:49] <Toprawa> ~open [00:04:54] <MasterJonathan> ~support [00:04:55] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:04:55] ~support [00:04:56] *tumbleweed* [00:04:57] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [00:04:58] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:04:59] <Zuko> ~support [00:05:02] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:05:02] ~support [00:05:03] <Cade> ~support I guess [00:05:05] <Toprawa> ~support [00:05:12] ~support If we must... [00:05:13] <Darth_Culator> ~oppose on principle [00:05:13] I'm pretty sure PurpleTentacle is broken [00:05:17] <Toprawa> ugh, yeah [00:05:24] <IFYLOFD> Blarg [00:05:32] <Toprawa> Did he change commands possibly? [00:05:41] <MasterJonathan> ping GreenTentacle [00:05:43] <Toprawa> My connection crapped out right as I was explaining this, so I don't know what happened [00:05:55] <Cade> Yeah, a lot of peoples' connections just died [00:05:55] <GreenTentacle> Hmm. [00:05:59] <MasterJonathan> ~vote 1 [00:06:02] * Richterbelmont10 has quit (Quit: Leaving) [00:06:03] <MasterJonathan> ??? [00:06:04] <GreenTentacle> ~tally [00:06:17] <MasterJonathan> ~open 2 [00:06:18] welp, that's a clear consensus anyway [00:06:22] <MasterJonathan> ??? [00:06:38] have you tried turning it off and on again? ;) [00:06:41] * Richterbelmont10 (~Richterbe@redacted) has joined [00:06:42] * PurpleTentacle has quit (Disconnected by services) [00:06:46] <Toprawa> We can give you a few moments to reboot if you need to, GT [00:06:48] <MasterJonathan> per grunny [00:06:51] <Brandon_Rhea> Kick it and yell FUCK a couple of times. That usually works for me. [00:07:06] * PurpleTentacle (~bot@redacted) has joined [00:07:06] * PurpleTentacle has quit (Changing host) [00:07:06] * PurpleTentacle (~bot@wookieepedia/administrator/GreenTentacle) has joined [00:07:06] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to PurpleTentacle [00:07:12] <GreenTentacle> ~open [00:07:12] <PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Voting is open. [00:07:14] woo [00:07:15] ! [00:07:15] <IFYLOFD> yey [00:07:16] <Toprawa> Yay! [00:07:18] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:07:19] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:07:19] <Toprawa> ~close [00:07:19] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:07:20] ~support [00:07:20] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: There is no open vote on this channel. [00:07:21] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [00:07:21] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: There is no open vote on this channel. [00:07:23] <Cade> ~support I guess [00:07:23] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: There is no open vote on this channel. [00:07:23] <Toprawa> I'm restarting it. [00:07:23] bah! [00:07:25] alright [00:07:27] <IFYLOFD> I GOT MINE IN [00:07:29] <Toprawa> Get ready... [00:07:32] <Toprawa> ~open [00:07:32] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:07:34] <MasterJonathan> ~support [00:07:34] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [00:07:34] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [00:07:35] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:07:35] ~support [00:07:35] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [00:07:36] <Toprawa> ~support [00:07:36] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:07:36] ~support [00:07:36] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:07:37] ~support [00:07:37] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:07:37] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:07:37] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:07:38] <Zuko> ~support [00:07:38] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [00:07:38] <Cade> ~support I guess [00:07:38] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [00:07:40] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:07:41] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:07:42] <GreenTentacle> ~support [00:07:43] <PurpleTentacle> GreenTentacle: Support vote counted. [00:07:51] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:07:51] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:08:00] <Toprawa> I'll give about 10 seconds after the last vote is in, so vote quickly if you haven't on each topic. [00:08:10] <Toprawa> ~close [00:08:10] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:08:13] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:08:13] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12 [00:08:17] <Toprawa> Motion passed. [00:08:23] <Toprawa> On to agenda item 2. [00:08:31] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:08:31] * ecks gives voice to Cade [00:08:31] <Toprawa> Cade has the floor. [00:08:37] <Cade> Okay, one minute [00:09:17] <Cade> Okay, movie novelizations [00:09:36] <Cade> Del Rey's basically said the extra stuff in the novels that's not in the movies is non-canon. [00:09:49] <Cade> So, to reflect that, we shouldn't be using novel-exclusive info. [00:10:05] * JorrelFraajic (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [00:10:06] * JorrelFraajic has quit (Changing host) [00:10:06] * JorrelFraajic (~chatzilla@wikia/Jorrel-Fraajic) has joined [00:10:11] <Cade> I'm proposing this be added to the Canon policy: [00:10:21] <Cade> Del Rey states that film novelizations and junior film novelizations for the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy, and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars film "are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie." Therefore, Wookieepedia articles will not document information that is exclusive to these novelizations until such a time when the information is confirmed to be canon. However [00:10:22] <Cade>, movie novelizations must still be listed in articles' appearances lists where appropriate. [00:10:24] * invader has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:10:26] * synapt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:10:29] * Pichu (Pichu@svipul/wookieepedia.pichu) has joined [00:10:30] * ChanServ gives voice to Pichu [00:10:33] * invader (~invader@redacted) has joined [00:10:36] <Cade> That's it. [00:10:39] * ChanServ removes voice from Cade [00:10:45] * Darth_Culator removes voice from Pichu [00:10:49] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:10:53] floor is open [00:11:02] <Toprawa> This first sentence is already in the Canon policy, for the record. [00:11:11] <MasterJonathan> I remain convinced that the only reasonable interpretation of Del Rey's tweet is that everything that doesn't conflict with the films is canon. So oppose. [00:11:15] <Toprawa> Second bullet: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Canon_policy#What_about....3F [00:11:17] * Nuku-Nuku (~Nuku-Nuku@wookieepedia/bot/Nuku-Nuku) has joined [00:11:17] * ChanServ gives voice to Nuku-Nuku [00:11:17] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Nuku-Nuku [00:11:17] * ChanServ gives voice to Nuku-Nuku [00:11:27] * LO|Away (~chatzilla@wikia/LordOblivion) has joined [00:11:28] disagree with MJ [00:11:30] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to LO|Away [00:11:35] <Darth_Culator> They may as well have said that they're not canon at all. It's just more marketing doublespeak. [00:11:38] <Toprawa> It's obvious that nothing in the novels is canon, basically [00:11:39] <Cade> ^ [00:11:39] * Darth_Culator removes voice from LO|Away [00:11:42] all they said is that the intersecting scenes are canon [00:11:43] <SirCavalier> Per Culator [00:11:44] <CorellianPremier> Sowhat counts as exclusive information? [00:11:44] * synapt (NBishop@pdpc/supporter/monthlybronze/synapt) has joined [00:11:46] <Toprawa> They only said what they did to sell move novels [00:11:48] nothing about the novel-exclusive material [00:11:49] <Brandon_Rhea> I agree that we shouldn't be using novel-exclusive info in canon pages, but I would be considered that adding them into the appearances would cause confusion as to whether that info actually is canon. [00:11:50] <Toprawa> per Culator [00:11:54] <SirCavalier> I'd be tempted to declare them non-canon for article purposes [00:12:02] <Brandon_Rhea> *would be concerned [00:12:11] <Toprawa> I would be ok with declaring them non-canon entirely. I think this was Cade's effort at a compromise? [00:12:16] <Cade> Okay, one minute. [00:12:19] <Zuko> per tope [00:12:22] <Cade> I'd like to say split this into two votes. [00:12:31] <Toprawa> Sure, what's the first/ [00:12:33] <Toprawa> ? [00:12:35] <Brandon_Rhea> I think with the lack of clarity - designed, no doubt, for marketing as Culator said - we should just keep it out entirely until there's a clearer answer. [00:12:39] <Brandon_Rhea> (sorry, was typing when you said that) [00:12:41] <Cade> 1) Treat the novels as non-canon entirely, or keep them. [00:12:43] yeah, per Culator, that could be said about any novel, comic, whatever that shows any scene from the movies [00:12:51] <Cade> 2) If we keep them, list in Appearances. [00:13:04] <Cade> Since people seem to disagree on both topics. [00:13:04] <Brandon_Rhea> Splitting that vote makes sense. [00:13:06] <Toprawa> Ok, we're in general agreement here it seems on what the issue is, so let's open voting on Cade's first item there. [00:13:16] <Toprawa> Treat novels as canon = support. Keep them = oppose. [00:13:20] <Toprawa> ~open [00:13:20] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:13:23] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:13:24] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:13:25] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support Too unclear, but they seem to lean towards non-canon. [00:13:26] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:13:26] <Toprawa> WAit [00:13:27] <Toprawa> ~close [00:13:28] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:13:29] <Toprawa> Sorry. [00:13:36] <JorrelFraajic> Heh [00:13:37] <Toprawa> I typo-ed [00:13:37] <Richterbelmont10> am I in? [00:13:40] ;P [00:13:43] <Richterbelmont10> oh good [00:13:50] <Toprawa> Treat novels as NON-canon = support. Keep them as CANON = oppose [00:13:50] <JorrelFraajic> They are both saying the same thing! [00:13:53] ^ [00:13:54] <Toprawa> Sorry :P [00:13:57] <Brandon_Rhea> Oh right. [00:13:58] <Toprawa> ~open [00:13:58] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:14:00] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose [00:14:00] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted. [00:14:03] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [00:14:03] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:14:04] <Cade> ~support [00:14:04] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [00:14:04] <Toprawa> ~support [00:14:05] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:14:05] <Darth_Culator> ~support [00:14:05] <Zuko> ~oppose [00:14:05] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Oppose vote counted. [00:14:05] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [00:14:06] ~support [00:14:06] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:14:07] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:14:08] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:14:08] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:14:09] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:14:11] <JorrelFraajic> ~support Until we get further confirmation. [00:14:11] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [00:14:19] ~support [00:14:19] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:14:24] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose [00:14:25] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted. [00:14:28] ~support because everything they've said is so vague, I'd rather pick this [00:14:28] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [00:14:31] ~support [00:14:32] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [00:14:53] * Tommy9281 (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [00:14:54] * Tommy9281 has quit (Changing host) [00:14:54] * Tommy9281 (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/administrator/Tommy9281) has joined [00:14:54] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Tommy9281 [00:14:54] * Nuku-Nuku gives channel operator status to Tommy9281 [00:14:56] <Darth_Culator> Going once... [00:15:00] <Toprawa> ~close [00:15:00] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:15:02] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:15:02] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 3 [00:15:02] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11 [00:15:10] <Toprawa> Someone want to help me math? :P [00:15:14] <MasterJonathan> Consensus. [00:15:16] plurality vote, no? [00:15:19] <Cade> Almost 4-1. [00:15:22] <Darth_Culator> And another general 'screw you Disney' for good measure. [00:15:27] <Toprawa> Novels will be treated as non-canon, then. [00:15:35] <Toprawa> We won't do the second vote, then [00:15:39] <Cade> *novelizations & junior novelizations [00:15:46] * LO|Away has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [00:16:03] <JorrelFraajic> My internet's in the process of dying :| [00:16:04] 'screw you Disney' goes without saying [00:16:09] <Toprawa> Ok, moving on to Item 3. [00:16:11] per ecksd [00:16:13] <Darth_Culator> It should be said anyway. [00:16:14] <Toprawa> Cade still has the floor. [00:16:20] <Cade> Okay, once sec :P [00:16:21] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:16:21] * ecks gives voice to Cade [00:16:30] <Darth_Culator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lLYOGDsts [00:16:44] <Cade> My Mac & Cheese literally just finished. [00:16:47] <IFYLOFD> Hurry the fuck up, Cade [00:16:47] <Cade> So, my second item: [00:16:56] <Cade> Events. [00:17:24] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:17:25] * ChanServ gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:17:25] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:17:32] <Cade> A number of people have found issue with the notability policy's prevention of articles about events, as they're not canonically named. [00:17:36] <Cade> TCW battles, for example. [00:17:37] where do all these Cades keep coming from [00:17:45] <Cade> I don't know, boot him [00:17:53] * ecks has kicked Cade_Calrayn from #wookieepedia (Cade_Calrayn) [00:17:54] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:17:54] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:17:58] * ChanServ gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:17:58] *sigh* [00:18:00] <Darth_Culator> !boot Cade_Calrayn DIE [00:18:01] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has left (requested by Nuku-Nuku (DIE)) [00:18:01] <IFYLOFD> !boot Cade_Calrayn [00:18:02] <Nuku-Nuku> IFYLOFD: Error: Cade_Calrayn is not in #wookieepedia. [00:18:06] ANYWAY [00:18:07] <Cade> So, I'm proposing this be added to the end of the notability policy [00:18:14] <Cade> "An exception to this rule are battles and other events, as the vast majority of these have conjectural names." [00:18:17] <Cade> Done. [00:18:28] <Toprawa> Floor is open for discussion. [00:18:35] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:18:35] * ecks removes voice from Cade [00:18:38] <Richterbelmont10> where is notability policy? [00:18:39] <Brandon_Rhea> This is a no-brainer. As one of the few who documents canon pages, I can tell you that the inability to write conjectural event pages - and things like Obi-Wan vs. Anakin on Mustafar, and Vader vs Luke on Cloud City, are conjectural - harms documentation efforts. We can't be comprehensive without this. [00:18:48] <Toprawa> Wookieepedia:Notability policy [00:18:53] <MasterJonathan> !wiki Wookieepedia:Notability policy [00:18:53] <Nuku-Nuku> MasterJonathan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3ANotability_policy [00:19:05] <Darth_Culator> Feh. Half the conjectural Legends event pages suck too. [00:19:06] yeah [00:19:20] <MasterJonathan> Support, I guess. [00:19:22] * Calrayn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [00:19:32] <JorrelFraajic> Well, they *shouldn't* theoretically :P [00:19:38] <Zuko> i support [00:19:41] <MasterJonathan> per Jorrel [00:19:41] <Darth_Culator> The New Coke notability policy is too restrictive, but it's better than nothing. [00:19:55] <Darth_Culator> Blowing it wide open for events is too much. [00:19:57] <Toprawa> I think this at least a good first step toward eventually lifting that policy entirely once more new canon stuff hits. [00:20:04] <Richterbelmont10> battles and other events is kinda vague, isn;t it? [00:20:05] if any of you write Clone Wars or GCW (Legends of course), I promise to pay you $5 [00:20:11] <Toprawa> Once we get into September and October, we'll know a lot more [00:20:16] <Cade> This really only affects TCW battles [00:20:24] <Cade> And like half a dozen events from the movies [00:20:35] <Brandon_Rhea> Important events too, which is big. [00:20:37] <Darth_Culator> Maybe just if the event has a given name in Legends, or something that still restricts it somewhat. [00:20:37] <Toprawa> Yeah, there really isn't much from the films this affects outside of what Brandon said [00:20:41] <Zuko> true [00:20:44] <Toprawa> Most of everything here is TCW-related [00:20:52] <Cade> Though, please note that this does not allow the creation of a Duel on Death Star 2 article [00:20:59] <Cade> Which has been TC'd :P [00:21:01] <JorrelFraajic> Is "Battle of Hoth" even a canonical name? [00:21:02] <Toprawa> Indeed. [00:21:04] <Toprawa> Yes, Jorrel [00:21:12] <Richterbelmont10> like "Battle over Kamino?" [00:21:14] <Zuko> ow [00:21:22] * Tommy9281 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]) [00:21:24] <MasterJonathan> Meh. Can we just vote to fuck TCW and move on? [00:21:26] <Zuko> So Battle of Geonosis ? [00:21:29] <Brandon_Rhea> As long as standard naming conventions are followed, I don't think this will be an issue. [00:21:35] <CorellianPremier> Indeed [00:21:48] <Zuko> per Brandon [00:21:51] <Toprawa> Ok, I think we're all clear here. [00:22:01] <Cade> So, vote time? [00:22:05] <Darth_Culator> Gonna be a lot of craptastic articles. [00:22:12] <Zuko> mhm [00:22:14] <JorrelFraajic> Always are :P [00:22:26] <Toprawa> Opening voting... [00:22:27] <Toprawa> ~open [00:22:28] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:22:30] <Richterbelmont10> ~support [00:22:30] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Support vote counted. [00:22:30] ~support [00:22:30] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:22:32] <Darth_Culator> That don't need to exist. Thanks to Cade. [00:22:32] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support Obvious support is obvious. [00:22:32] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:22:34] <Zuko> ~support [00:22:35] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [00:22:36] ~support [00:22:36] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [00:22:37] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:22:37] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:22:37] <MasterJonathan> ~support with a side of "Fuck you, Disney" [00:22:37] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [00:22:39] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:22:39] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:22:40] <Toprawa> ~support [00:22:40] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:22:41] <Darth_Culator> ~oppose [00:22:41] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Oppose vote counted. [00:22:44] <Cade> Crap, my connection's dying [00:22:48] ~support [00:22:48] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:22:49] <JorrelFraajic> ~support It's more beneficial than not. [00:22:49] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [00:23:06] * Hands (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has joined [00:23:08] * Hands has quit (Changing host) [00:23:09] * Hands (redacted@wookieepedia/Hanzo-Hasashi) has joined [00:23:09] * ChanServ gives voice to Hands [00:23:10] <Toprawa> ~close [00:23:11] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:23:13] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:23:13] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 1 [00:23:13] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11 [00:23:16] * MasterJonathan removes voice from Hands [00:23:16] <Toprawa> Measure passed. [00:23:18] <Toprawa> Hi, Hands. [00:23:22] <Hands> Hi. [00:23:25] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:23:25] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:23:25] * ChanServ gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:23:27] <Hands> Late arrival for me. [00:23:28] <Toprawa> Just follow along and you'll pick it up [00:23:30] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has left (requested by ecks (bye)) [00:23:33] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:23:33] * ChanServ gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:23:33] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:23:37] <Cade_Calrayn> Ecks, don't kill me [00:23:39] <Toprawa> Moving on to Item 4. [00:23:40] <Cade_Calrayn> It's me [00:23:41] we need to ban Cade [00:23:42] <Brandon_Rhea> On behalf of the like 3 people who write canon pages, thank you! :p [00:23:42] <Toprawa> Toprawa has the floor. [00:23:43] <Cade_Calrayn> My laptop died. [00:23:46] * ChanServ removes voice from Cade_Calrayn [00:23:50] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:23:54] <Toprawa> Ok. [00:24:05] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has left (requested by grunny (Cade)) [00:24:10] * Cade (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:24:10] * ChanServ gives voice to Cade [00:24:10] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Cade [00:24:24] * MasterJonathan facepalms [00:24:29] bah [00:24:37] <Cade> Don't kick me. [00:24:41] <Cade> I'm here too. [00:24:46] <Toprawa> Why isn't he muted? [00:24:53] * Darth_Culator removes voice from Cade [00:24:54] <Toprawa> Shut up and let me talk. [00:24:55] <MasterJonathan> Because he has voice [00:24:56] * IFYLOFD removes voice from Cade [00:25:11] <Toprawa> Insider 150 announced that all new fiction in Insider beginning with issue 150 is part of the new canon. [00:25:32] <Toprawa> It's very clear reading through some of the articles in Insider 150 that that issue is the first issue to be part of the new canon. [00:25:44] <Toprawa> They make references to the new continuity, etc. [00:26:07] <Toprawa> So we're left with the issue of how to list non-fiction Insider article mentions in Canon and Legends articles. [00:26:13] <Toprawa> My proposal is simple: [00:26:55] <Toprawa> Beginning with Insider 150, for subjects that have been re-canonized in the new continuity and are mentioned in non-fiction Insider articles, add those Insider articles to Canon Sources lists. For EU subejcts that are mentioned and not recanonized yet, they go in Legends Sources lists. [00:27:07] <Toprawa> This is my officially worded proposal, which will be added to the Sources section of the Layout Guide: [00:27:20] <Toprawa> "Beginning with the short story "Blade Squadron" in Star Wars Insider 149-150, all Insider fiction is considered part of the new canon and must be documented only within Canon articles. Insider fiction prior to issues 149-150 will be documented in Legends articles. With regards to non-fiction Insider articles beginning with issue 150, for subjects that remain canon or have been re-canonized... [00:27:21] <Toprawa> ...in the new canon and are mentioned in Insider articles, those Insider articles will be documented within Canon articles' Sources lists. Likewise, subjects that are mentioned in Insider articles by their Legends names and have not been re-canonized will be documented within Legends articles' Sources lists until such a time that the subject is re-canonized, at which point all subsequent... [00:27:23] <Toprawa> ...Insider mentions will be documented within a subject's Canon article. Previous Insider mentions in a Legends Sources list will not be moved to a subject's Canon Sources list. " [00:27:54] <Toprawa> Floor is open for discussion. [00:28:13] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:28:17] <MasterJonathan> Is there any provision for listing an article in both, if the article clearly deals with both? [00:28:18] <IFYLOFD> Probably the only way to handle this [00:28:47] <Toprawa> What do you suggest, Jonathan? [00:28:49] <MasterJonathan> E.g., issue 153 might have an article on canon!Han that also mentions Legends aspects of him, for example. [00:29:09] * grunny_ (~grunny@redacted) has joined [00:29:13] <MasterJonathan> I'm not sure how to word it, honestly. [00:29:17] * PurpleTentacle_ (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [00:29:18] * grunny_ (~grunny@redacted) has left [00:29:24] * Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@redacted) has joined [00:29:24] * Calrayn has quit (Changing host) [00:29:24] * Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:29:24] * ChanServ gives voice to Calrayn [00:29:25] <Richterbelmont10> MJ makes a good point [00:29:26] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Calrayn [00:29:28] <Toprawa> I really don't even know, MJ. [00:29:29] * Brandon_Rhea_ (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [00:29:33] *cracks knuckles* [00:29:34] <Toprawa> I'd have to see an example of this [00:29:38] * ChanServ removes voice from Calrayn [00:29:40] <Toprawa> wtf is going on with connections? [00:29:47] <CorellianPremier> What about relevant information from previous articles, like how a scene was choreographed or something? [00:29:51] * Culator|Away (Culator@wookieepedia/bureaucrat/Darth-Culator) has joined [00:29:51] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Culator|Away [00:29:53] * Nuku-Nuku gives channel operator status to Culator|Away [00:29:58] * grunny has quit (Disconnected by services) [00:30:07] <MasterJonathan> Might be a case of "cross that bridge when we come to it"? Discuss it in CT if/when it occurs? [00:30:11] <Toprawa> I don't know what you're referring to, CP [00:30:15] * GreenTentacle has quit (Disconnected by services) [00:30:16] <Toprawa> MJ, that's what I'm thinking [00:30:23] <MasterJonathan> Fair enough. [00:30:25] CorellianPremier: That is BTS information. [00:30:28] * grunny (~grunny@wikia/vstf/countervandalism.user.Grunny) has joined [00:30:28] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to grunny [00:30:28] * Nuku-Nuku gives channel operator status to grunny [00:30:32] <MasterJonathan> Consider my question dropped. [00:30:33] <JorrelFraajic> My internet is barely alive. [00:30:33] * Brandon_Rhea has quit (Killed (verne.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))) [00:30:33] * Brandon_Rhea_ is now known as Brandon_Rhea [00:30:39] <Zuko> yes [00:30:40] * Brandon_Rhea has quit (Changing host) [00:30:40] * Brandon_Rhea (~chatzilla@wikia/Brandon-Rhea) has joined [00:30:41] * LtNOWIS (~Simon@redacted) has left ("Leaving") [00:30:48] <JorrelFraajic> Nothing is loading but IRC is still connected. [00:30:58] * Darth_Culator has quit (Disconnected by services) [00:30:59] <Zuko> what the... [00:31:01] <IFYLOFD> This is incredilol [00:31:02] <JorrelFraajic> We picked the worst time to have a Mofference :P [00:31:04] * Culator|Away is now known as Darth_Culator [00:31:09] <Brandon_Rhea> Come on Freenode! [00:31:12] so anyway, IRC problems aside [00:31:17] back to Tope's agenda [00:31:26] <Calrayn> Support [00:31:29] +1 [00:31:30] <Richterbelmont10> if a future issue tells a story about Legends Han, then would that us move that part of his story to Canon Han? [00:31:40] <Toprawa> what? [00:31:48] <IFYLOFD> That wouldn't happen [00:31:50] <Calrayn> That'll never happen [00:31:51] <IFYLOFD> To them, Legends is done [00:31:54] <Hands> ~support [00:31:55] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: There is no open vote on this channel. [00:32:07] ~damn you Disney [00:32:10] <Richterbelmont10> Legends could also just be "Canon in waiting" [00:32:13] <MasterJonathan> per dogma [00:32:15] <Toprawa> A lot of this seems like what MJ says: We'll deal with these potential oddities when we come across them [00:32:21] <Calrayn> No, Richter. [00:32:22] <MasterJonathan> per Tope [00:32:31] <JorrelFraajic> I'm inclined to agree with Tope [00:32:32] <Toprawa> It's possible we might not have to face any of this [00:32:38] <Hands> Support [00:32:43] <Zuko> okay then. Support [00:32:51] <Brandon_Rhea> Pretty straight-forward. [00:32:54] <JorrelFraajic> Case-by-case, and if it's shown that it's more frequent than anticipated, revisit then [00:32:59] <Toprawa> ^ [00:33:02] <MasterJonathan> Let's vote on the simple case now, and problems can be dealt with further down the road. [00:33:06] * PurpleTentacle has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [00:33:09] <Toprawa> NO [00:33:11] <Brandon_Rhea> Well then... [00:33:12] ... [00:33:12] <Toprawa> PURPLETENTACLE [00:33:13] <JorrelFraajic> ...that's problematic. [00:33:16] <Toprawa> SON OF A BITCH [00:33:17] <Zuko> oh shit. [00:33:26] <IFYLOFD> el [00:33:27] <JorrelFraajic> Freenode's doing this on purpose [00:33:27] <Darth_Culator> NOW WE HAVE TO MATH [00:33:27] <IFYLOFD> oh [00:33:29] <IFYLOFD> el [00:33:30] <Calrayn> Give it a minute [00:33:32] <Toprawa> I CAN'T MATH [00:33:36] <IFYLOFD> Support [00:33:40] <Zuko> me either [00:33:48] <MasterJonathan> This is the most unintentionally hilarious Mofference ever. [00:33:50] <IFYLOFD> Zuko. [00:33:51] * Jorrel (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [00:33:52] * PurpleTentacle (~bot@wookieepedia/administrator/GreenTentacle) has joined [00:33:52] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to PurpleTentacle [00:33:52] * Nuku-Nuku gives channel operator status to PurpleTentacle [00:33:52] * Jorrel has quit (Changing host) [00:33:52] * Jorrel (~chatzilla@wikia/Jorrel-Fraajic) has joined [00:33:54] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Jorrel [00:33:58] <Toprawa> Ok, I'm opening voting. [00:33:58] <IFYLOFD> I am appointing you Official Mofference Mathman [00:34:00] <Toprawa> Before he dies again :P [00:34:03] <Toprawa> ~open [00:34:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:34:04] ~support [00:34:04] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:34:06] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support Disney is great and so is the new canon. (had to bring some positivity here! ;) ) [00:34:06] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:34:06] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:34:07] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:34:07] <Zuko> ~support [00:34:07] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [00:34:08] <Toprawa> ~support [00:34:08] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:34:08] <MasterJonathan> ~support [00:34:08] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [00:34:10] <Jorrel> ~support [00:34:10] <PurpleTentacle> Jorrel: Support vote counted. [00:34:12] <Calrayn> ~support [00:34:12] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:34:12] <PurpleTentacle> Calrayn: Support vote counted. [00:34:12] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:34:13] <Darth_Culator> ~support [00:34:13] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [00:34:13] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:34:13] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:34:14] ~support [00:34:14] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [00:34:16] <Darth_Culator> http://edushyster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/barbie1.jpg [00:34:17] <Hands> ~support [00:34:17] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [00:34:17] * Ems (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has joined [00:34:17] ~support [00:34:17] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [00:34:28] ~support [00:34:28] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:34:30] * JorrelFraajic has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [00:34:31] * Toprawa removes voice from Jorrel [00:34:47] <Toprawa> ~close [00:34:47] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:34:49] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:34:50] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 [00:34:53] <Toprawa> Motion passed. [00:34:58] <IFYLOFD> I am the only person who hasn't had any connection problems. [00:35:02] <IFYLOFD> Grovel before me. [00:35:04] <Calrayn> Shush you [00:35:05] <MasterJonathan> I haven't either. [00:35:06] <Toprawa> Moving on to agenda 5. [00:35:07] <Zuko> no i :P [00:35:09] <Darth_Culator> WELL LA DEE DA [00:35:21] <Toprawa> ecks, if you'd plese [00:35:24] <Toprawa> please* [00:35:35] alright [00:35:43] Jangeth is gone, but I have his notes [00:35:45] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:35:53] Removing the Wookify policy [00:35:54] I'll keep this brief: I've been looking over Wookieepedia:Wookify for a few months now and I came to the conclusion that it should be scraped. Not only is it out dated, but there isn't any use for it. I propose that we remove the aged policy. [00:35:54]    Vote 1: The removal of Wookieepedia:Wookify [00:35:54]    Vote 2: The removal of Template:Wookify and let a bot move existing templates over to Template:Cleanup [00:35:57] We could also remove Template:Wookify. A bot could go through the articles that are currently tagged with and it could be changed to Template:Cleanup or something. [00:36:06] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:36:10] that's it, floor is open [00:36:12] <Toprawa> I assume he meant "scrapped" [00:36:25] Sounds good [00:36:28] <Toprawa> !Wookieepedia:Wookify [00:36:29] <Nuku-Nuku> Toprawa: Error: "Wookieepedia:Wookify" is not a valid command. [00:36:31] <Toprawa> what isi t? [00:36:33] <IFYLOFD> Yeah, it's a 2005 relic [00:36:39] <IFYLOFD> How to copy articles over from Wikipedia [00:36:39] <Brandon_Rhea> What is his thinking behind "it is outdated" and "there isn't any use for it"? I'm always all for less policies, but that'd be good to know. [00:36:40] <Jorrel> !wiki Wookieepedia:Wookify [00:36:41] <Calrayn> !wiki Wookieepedia:Wookify [00:36:42] <Nuku-Nuku> Jorrel: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3AWookify [00:36:42] <Nuku-Nuku> Calrayn: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia%3AWookify [00:36:46] <Toprawa> thanks [00:36:49] <Brandon_Rhea> Ah thanks FLOYD. [00:36:51] <Calrayn> Dammit, Jorrel. [00:36:54] <Jorrel> ;) [00:37:05] <Richterbelmont10> can some of the guidelines be copied to "Cleanup" [00:37:07] <Toprawa> "Wookify" just means follow all of our other policies. [00:37:19] <MasterJonathan> Which is handled by . [00:37:23] <Richterbelmont10> never mind [00:37:25] <Toprawa> yeah [00:37:31] <Brandon_Rhea> Makes sense. Totally agreed. [00:37:35] <MasterJonathan> So I support. [00:37:41] * Calrayn arms the RoboCade [00:37:46] <Jorrel> Definitely makes sense [00:37:52] * dogma ducks [00:37:57] * Cade_Calrayn has quit (Disconnected by services) [00:37:59] <Zuko> i'm for it [00:38:00] <Toprawa> Ok, vote 1, then, will be to DELETE Wookieepedia:Wookify. This will be a Mofference TC vote. [00:38:12] * Cade has quit (*.net *.split) [00:38:20] <Jorrel> OH GOD [00:38:20] <Toprawa> Support: Delete. Oppose: Keep [00:38:20] <Calrayn> ^_^ [00:38:20] <Richterbelmont10> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Wookify [00:38:25] <Darth_Culator> When was the last article copied from Wikipedia? Like, a few months after Wookieepedia was founded? [00:38:28] <Toprawa> ~open [00:38:28] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:38:29] <Calrayn> Shut up people and let Tope talk [00:38:30] <MasterJonathan> NOT A NETSPLIT! [00:38:32] <Calrayn> ~support [00:38:32] <PurpleTentacle> Calrayn: Support vote counted. [00:38:32] <Jorrel> ~support [00:38:32] <PurpleTentacle> Jorrel: Support vote counted. [00:38:33] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support Less policies are better policies. [00:38:34] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:38:34] <Toprawa> ~support [00:38:34] ~support pew pew pew [00:38:34] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:38:34] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:38:34] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:38:34] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:38:35] ~support [00:38:35] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [00:38:36] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:38:36] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:38:36] <Zuko> ~support [00:38:36] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [00:38:37] <Hands> ~support [00:38:37] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [00:38:37] <Darth_Culator> ~support [00:38:37] <Richterbelmont10> ~support [00:38:37] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [00:38:37] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Support vote counted. [00:38:37] ~support [00:38:37] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [00:38:40] ~support [00:38:40] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:38:42] <MasterJonathan> ~support [00:38:42] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [00:38:44] * Calrayn is now known as Cade [00:38:44] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:38:44] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@redacted) has joined [00:38:44] * Cade_Calrayn has quit (Changing host) [00:38:44] * Cade_Calrayn (~Cade_Calr@wookieepedia/Cade-Calrayn) has joined [00:38:44] * ChanServ gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:38:44] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:38:45] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Cade_Calrayn [00:38:52] * ChanServ removes voice from Cade_Calrayn [00:38:53] <Cade> -_- [00:39:00] <Toprawa> Get your votes in now. [00:39:02] banning Cade_Calrayn next time this happens [00:39:10] <Toprawa> ~close [00:39:11] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:39:12] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:39:13] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16 [00:39:17] * Cade_Calrayn has quit (Client Quit) [00:39:20] <Toprawa> Wookieepedia:Wookify will be deleted. [00:39:22] <Darth_Culator> Mofference TC. Awesome. [00:39:31] <Darth_Culator> Brings to mind pitchforks and torches. [00:39:32] <Toprawa> Ok, second vote. [00:39:35] <Toprawa> Vote 2: The removal of Template:Wookify and let a bot move existing templates over to Template:Cleanup [00:39:54] <Toprawa> I'm not sure we really need to vote on this, but what the hey [00:39:58] <Toprawa> ~open [00:39:58] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:39:59] ~support [00:39:59] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [00:40:00] <Cade> ~support [00:40:00] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [00:40:00] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support No brainer after the first vote. [00:40:00] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:40:01] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:40:02] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:40:02] <CorellianPremier> ~support [00:40:02] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:40:02] <MasterJonathan> ~support [00:40:02] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [00:40:03] <Toprawa> ~support [00:40:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:40:03] <Darth_Culator> ~support [00:40:03] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [00:40:04] ~support [00:40:04] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:40:04] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:40:04] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:40:05] <Hands> ~support [00:40:05] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [00:40:05] ~support [00:40:05] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:40:06] ~support [00:40:07] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [00:40:09] <Zuko> ~support [00:40:09] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [00:40:10] <Richterbelmont10> ~support [00:40:10] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Support vote counted. [00:40:10] <Jorrel> ~support [00:40:10] <PurpleTentacle> Jorrel: Support vote counted. [00:40:30] <Toprawa> ~close [00:40:30] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:40:31] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:40:32] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 16 [00:40:34] <Toprawa> Motion passed. [00:40:39] <Richterbelmont10> Template:Cleanup has a link to Wikipedia [00:40:42] <Jorrel> What a shocker [00:40:44] <Toprawa> Moving on to Item 6. Jang/ecks still has the floor. [00:40:47] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:40:55] New Articles [00:40:55] OK, I'm quite frankly getting tired of new members, noobs, or anon IPs creating articles that do not adhere to the MOS and LG. We often tag the articles with Wookify, which then links to the aged Wookify policy, I suggest a completely new template that could benefit not only the article's creator but for other editors as well. A category will be made for the template to highlight new articles that are tagged with the template. [00:40:55] http://jang.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Newarticle [00:41:03] floor is open [00:41:05] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:41:18] <Cade> Looks good [00:41:24] <Cade> Wookify, but more descriptive [00:41:27] <Toprawa> This is basically what we used Template:Wookify for [00:41:35] beautiful [00:41:36] <Darth_Culator> I hereby propose that we adopt this logo. [00:41:40] <MasterJonathan> Hurry up, Wikia... [00:41:45] Isn't this just cleanup? [00:41:47] <Cade> I oppose that, Culator [00:41:57] <Brandon_Rhea> Disagreed. That's not a good message to put in front of a reader. An editor, sure, but not the vast majority of people who visit Wookieepedia. If there's a poor quality article, be bold and fix this. [00:42:05] <Brandon_Rhea> *fix it [00:42:06] <IFYLOFD> I'd like to see a mock template, but the idea is a good one [00:42:11] and if it's really low quality, delete it [00:42:14] <MasterJonathan> I think is more than sufficient here. [00:42:19] <Cade> Floyd: that is a mockup :P [00:42:20] <Zuko> yes [00:42:26] not seeing the benefits with a separate template to be honest [00:42:28] <IFYLOFD> Blarg, I missed it [00:42:31] <MasterJonathan> And per Brandon [00:42:36] per MJ and Brandon [00:42:43] <Cade> Hmmm. Per ecks. [00:42:47] <Jorrel> More specific than Cleanup, and categorizes which articles need attention. That said, I think it could be significantly nicer in its approach. [00:43:05] <Zuko> but for what use ? [00:43:05] <Cade> How about we vote on the concept, and update the template later? [00:43:10] <CorellianPremier> Definitely, Jorrel [00:43:12] <Jorrel> need immediate*, since is such a wide net [00:43:13] <Brandon_Rhea> Why not add suggestions onto the talk page to go along with Template:Cleanup? [00:43:19] <Brandon_Rhea> Too much of a tendency to just tag something and walk away. [00:43:32] <MasterJonathan> I agree with Brandon here. [00:43:39] <Richterbelmont10> agree with Brandon [00:43:41] <Toprawa> Ok, to begin, we'll vote on whether we want to put Jang's proposed template into practice and go from there. [00:43:49] <Toprawa> ~open [00:43:50] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:43:52] <Richterbelmont10> ~oppose [00:43:53] <Brandon_Rhea> ~oppose [00:43:53] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose [00:43:53] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Oppose vote counted. [00:43:53] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Oppose vote counted. [00:43:53] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted. [00:43:54] ~oppose [00:43:54] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Oppose vote counted. [00:43:58] <Jorrel> The only problem I see with using WP:BOLD to fix it yourself is that no one ever learns. [00:43:59] <Darth_Culator> ~support [00:43:59] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [00:43:59] * Zuko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [00:44:00] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose [00:44:01] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted. [00:44:04] <Hands> ~support [00:44:05] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [00:44:09] ~oppose [00:44:10] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Oppose vote counted. [00:44:12] <Toprawa> ~support [00:44:13] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:44:15] <IFYLOFD> ~support [00:44:16] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [00:44:16] <Zuko> ~oppose [00:44:16] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Oppose vote counted. [00:44:16] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:44:16] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:44:16] <Cade> ~support [00:44:16] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [00:44:17] <Jorrel> ~oppose But I like the quote [00:44:17] <PurpleTentacle> Jorrel: Oppose vote counted. [00:44:29] ~support [00:44:30] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:44:33] ~support [00:44:33] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:44:45] <Toprawa> Closing in 5. [00:44:46] * JorrelFraajic (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [00:44:46] * JorrelFraajic has quit (Changing host) [00:44:46] * JorrelFraajic (~chatzilla@wikia/Jorrel-Fraajic) has joined [00:44:46] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to JorrelFraajic [00:44:52] <Toprawa> ~close [00:44:52] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:44:53] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:44:54] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 8 [00:44:54] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 8 [00:44:57] <Toprawa> No consensus. [00:44:59] <Toprawa> Alternative ideas? [00:45:02] <Richterbelmont10> we should update the cleanup template [00:45:06] <IFYLOFD> Let's all give Floyd money [00:45:14] <MasterJonathan> !wiki Template:Cleanup [00:45:14] <Nuku-Nuku> MasterJonathan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template%3ACleanup [00:45:14] <Jorrel> I agree with Richter on that. [00:45:19] * Jorrel has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]) [00:45:35] <Brandon_Rhea> Update Cleanup if need be, add suggestions to talk page, and just generally be more helpful than tagging and walking away. People won't learn from just slapping a template on a page either. If you want people to improve, sometimes you need to put in the time to help them out. [00:45:46] <IFYLOFD> Per Brandon [00:45:48] <Zuko> Update sound good [00:45:51] <CorellianPremier> Yep [00:45:55] <Toprawa> We can add parameters to Cleanup to designate specific issues, like Layout Guide failures, etc. [00:45:59] <Richterbelmont10> add link to Layout Guide to the template [00:45:59] <JorrelFraajic> Per Brandon [00:46:00] <Richterbelmont10> also [00:46:04] <Toprawa> We don't need to formally vote on all of this, though [00:46:09] * CorellianPremier has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [00:46:09] I wouldn't mind having a parameter for that [00:46:10] <MasterJonathan> I agree, but would prefer to wait until after the Mofference and discuss in the SH when we have time to put together proper mockups. [00:46:11] Jorrel: I don't think that's always true (re: never learning). You notice what people do to articles you created. And if not, leave them a message explaining what they can improve [00:46:12] <Brandon_Rhea> That's a good idea as well Tope (in conjunction with general helpfulness) [00:46:15] <JorrelFraajic> And yes, parameters are good. [00:46:17] also per MJ [00:46:32] <JorrelFraajic> I still like the quote though. [00:46:36] * CorellianPremier (redacted@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/session) has joined [00:46:43] * CorellianPremier has quit (Changing host) [00:46:43] * CorellianPremier (redacted@wookieepedia/CorellianPremier) has joined [00:46:43] * ChanServ gives voice to CorellianPremier [00:46:47] <Toprawa> Ok, if there are no other specific proposals for this, we can update Cleanup as needed without the need for a vote. [00:46:54] <Brandon_Rhea> Sounds like a plan. [00:46:58] <Toprawa> Moving on to Item 7. [00:47:06] <Toprawa> Toprawa has the floor. [00:47:20] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [00:47:25] * grunny removes voice from CorellianPremier [00:47:31] * grunny removes voice from JorrelFraajic [00:47:43] <Toprawa> There is a loophole in our voting policy that I feel strongly needs to be addressed. [00:48:06] <Toprawa> We approved the original policy here last Mofference but didn't address this because we were cranky and out of time. [00:48:28] <Toprawa> The current policy here reads: "Users must make 50 non-reverted, non-deleted edits within the previous 6 months prior to the start of a given forum to be eligible to vote. User page and talk page edits do not apply. Edit totals remain pursuant to the overall productivity requirement. " [00:49:20] <Toprawa> The problem is here is that someone who wants to troll a vote only needs to go spam QOTD 50 times or the SH 50 times and suddenly they have the ability to vote. [00:49:31] <Toprawa> That's wrong. [00:49:48] <Toprawa> The idea behind SIV has always been to require people to demonstrate a minimum level of productivity to the site. [00:50:11] <Toprawa> I'm proposing simply that we make this "50 non-reverted, non-deleted *mainspace* edits..." which isn't difficult to achieve at all. [00:50:24] <Toprawa> Floor is open. [00:50:29] <IFYLOFD> I think this is trying to address a problem that doesn't exist, though [00:50:31] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [00:50:32] <Richterbelmont10> did someone use this loophole? [00:50:32] <JorrelFraajic> They do? The productivity requirement seems to disagree with your take on the loophole. [00:50:40] <Cade> Note that this is the same thing we have for our user page policy [00:50:43] <IFYLOFD> I have never seen this happen before [00:50:47] per Floyd, basically [00:50:49] <Cade> I think? [00:50:55] <IFYLOFD> Someone just goes and spams on the QOTD (which I wholeheartedly support!) [00:51:02] <JorrelFraajic> You would [00:51:15] <JorrelFraajic> Oh, wait, QOTD is a Wookieepedia: namespace. [00:51:22] <Cade> Exactly [00:51:22] <Brandon_Rhea> On principle I think there should be fewer restrictions, not more, but if there's a loophole then it should be closed... but I'm not sure if this is really a loophole. [00:51:26] <Richterbelmont10> I don't even know how to spam QOTD [00:51:36] <Cade> The Wookieepedia namespace is essentially a Talk namespace [00:51:44] <Cade> There's no reason for that to count towards productivity [00:51:45] <Darth_Culator> It's not a difficult fix to implement, there's no reason not to implement it. [00:51:50] <Toprawa> The problem here is that Wookieepedia: mainspace applies to many non-essential things. [00:51:52] <JorrelFraajic> I disagree, Cade. [00:51:53] disagree with Cade there [00:51:55] <Toprawa> So that means nothing in terms of productivity [00:51:58] nomination pages? [00:52:01] <Zuko> Like what tope ? [00:52:04] <Cade> That's three out of 30 [00:52:05] <Richterbelmont10> there's nothing to fix [00:52:09] <JorrelFraajic> Tjat [00:52:14] <Cade> Better to prevent it than let it happen [00:52:20] <JorrelFraajic> That's the majority of many users' Wookieepedia: edits, Cade. [00:52:25] <Zuko> per cade [00:52:42] <Cade> Why should someone's questions on a SH thread allow them to vote on the site's inner workings? [00:52:49] <Toprawa> I think you guys are missing the point. [00:52:49] It's not that hard to get 50 mainspace edits. [00:52:53] <Toprawa> And maybe I didn't present this well enough. [00:52:59] <Cade> Why should someone's votes on the Miss/Mr. Star Wars pages? [00:53:04] <Brandon_Rhea> Someone could theoretically spam mainspace pages too. Say there were 50 uncategorized pages. 5 minutes and you're done. I think that loophole, if you want to call it that, is just a fact of life. [00:53:11] <Darth_Culator> Yeah, I'm not in favor of someone derping their way to voting eligibility. [00:53:13] <Zuko> ej, 50 edits not reverted may be hard at first [00:53:15] <Toprawa> The idea is that someone should have to make 50 substantial, productive edits to the wiki in the past 6 months to be able to vote on a policy. [00:53:24] <Zuko> oh [00:53:26] <Toprawa> They shouldn't be able to slip by with 50 non-mainspace edits [00:53:30] <Cade> ^ [00:53:44] <Toprawa> That's the problem. [00:53:53] <IFYLOFD> But how do you define "substantial and productive" [00:53:58] <Toprawa> It has less to do with whether someone has ever took advantage of this [00:53:59] <JorrelFraajic> ^ [00:53:59] <Richterbelmont10> but that's what the article says already [00:54:02] <Toprawa> It's that the loophole exists [00:54:02] <IFYLOFD> Like Brandon said, you could just spam in the mainspace [00:54:05] <Toprawa> No, Richter [00:54:07] <Toprawa> It doesn't [00:54:13] <Toprawa> Then spam the mainspace. [00:54:16] <JorrelFraajic> Yeah, I'm not seeing how the loophole exists. [00:54:18] <JorrelFraajic> "Votes by any users who have fewer than 50 valid (non-vandalism, non-fanon) Main namespace (article) edits will NOT be counted." [00:54:19] <Toprawa> That takes effort most people won't go through [00:54:31] <JorrelFraajic> It already /says/ "Main" [00:54:35] <Toprawa> No, Jorrel [00:54:38] <Toprawa> That's 50 edits in TOTAL [00:54:39] <IFYLOFD> And I think spamming in the SH, for example is the same kind of effort most people won't go through [00:54:46] <JorrelFraajic> "50 valid (non-vandalism, non-fanon) Main namespace (article) edits" [00:54:52] <JorrelFraajic> Oooh [00:54:54] <Darth_Culator> That's not the 6-month part. [00:54:55] <Cade> Okay, ignoring the idea of a loophole, why do you think that QOTD or SH thread contributions should equate in voting capability, people? [00:54:55] <Zuko> How can we check if the guy have done 50 good edits on 6 month ? [00:55:11] <IFYLOFD> Because the QOTD is cool and awesome, brah [00:55:12] <JorrelFraajic> Combing Special:Contributions, Zuko [00:55:17] <Cade> It's not about spamming [00:55:23] <Richterbelmont10> there should be less restrictions not more [00:55:24] <Toprawa> Someone could make 50 edits in 2007 and then show up in 2015 and troll a vote. [00:55:34] <Zuko> oh good point [00:55:38] <Toprawa> They should have to make 50 mainspace edits within the past 6 months to be able to vote. [00:55:44] <Cade> ^ [00:55:47] <Brandon_Rhea> Cade - because they're as much a part of the community, and productive, as main namespace. Mainspace may be the content, but why shouldn't giving your opinion or helping a quote pass be considered productive as well? I think that's the trouble with throwing around buzzwords like that - they mean a lot of different things to different people. It's not a set standard. [00:55:58] wouldn't someone reviewing a GAN on Wookieepedia: be productive? Just as someone reformatting things in a minor way in mainspace wouldn't really be productive [00:56:06] <MasterJonathan> I honestly don't understand how any namespace other than main can be blanketly declared productive or unproductive. Most contain both productive things and unproductive things. [00:56:13] <Brandon_Rhea> Agreed. [00:56:16] per MJ [00:56:23] QOTD and reveiws are productive [00:56:26] <Zuko> yeah as MJ said [00:56:26] <Darth_Culator> That's why only main can be reliably counted. [00:56:28] <Brandon_Rhea> Even mainspace could be unproductive if you're a vandal, so nothing is blanket productive. [00:56:31] <Richterbelmont10> if someone made 50 edits a year ago they should still be allowed to vote [00:56:36] <MasterJonathan> Even user talk can be productive by helping a new user or doing pre-nom reviews. [00:56:40] <JorrelFraajic> Yeah, Wookieepedia: at the least should be considered productive. [00:56:42] <Toprawa> Then someone goes and spams 50 FAN/GAN/CAN votes. [00:56:44] Culator: but it can't, mainspace edits can still be pointless [00:56:45] <Zuko> or fixing minor things like redirecting links or ect is [00:56:46] <Toprawa> That's easier to spam than making 50 mainspace edits. [00:56:58] <Cade> Brandon: Vandalized edits are reverted, so they don't count [00:56:58] Tope, remember Plaguies327? [00:56:59] <IFYLOFD> This doesn't happen, though. [00:57:03] He spammed forever :P [00:57:06] mainspace [00:57:09] <IFYLOFD> This has never happened. [00:57:09] <Richterbelmont10> Again Tope, has this ever happened before? [00:57:11] <Toprawa> Mainspace is the key. [00:57:14] <JorrelFraajic> The only pages a typical user edits are the FAN, GAN, CAN, and QOTD, and the issue with QOTD could be mitigated by moving it to a Forum namespace. [00:57:15] <Zuko> but i believe that, the guy is being ban before eh ? [00:57:16] and what about File: ? [00:57:16] <Brandon_Rhea> Cade - I know, I was going at the idea that the mainspace is blanket productive in general. [00:57:17] <SirCavalier> Pickle spammed the mainspace [00:57:34] <MasterJonathan> I agree is this specific case that the loophole should be closed to allow mainspace only. But I think the larger picture of productivity needs to be looked at later. [00:57:44] <MasterJonathan> I agree in* [00:57:46] <Zuko> how can he reach 50 edits witouth having warning or a block ? [00:57:48] <Toprawa> If you've already made up your minds here, there's no point in arguing this further. [00:57:55] <Toprawa> I'm opening voting. [00:57:55] <Zuko> if he spam [00:57:59] <Toprawa> ~open [00:57:59] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [00:58:02] <Richterbelmont10> ~oppose [00:58:02] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Oppose vote counted. [00:58:02] <MasterJonathan> ~support [00:58:03] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [00:58:03] <Toprawa> ~support [00:58:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [00:58:05] <Darth_Culator> ~support [00:58:06] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [00:58:06] <Cade> ~support [00:58:06] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [00:58:07] <Zuko> ~support [00:58:07] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [00:58:07] ~support [00:58:07] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [00:58:16] <Hands> ~support [00:58:17] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [00:58:19] <CorellianPremier> ~Support better to close a loophole [00:58:19] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [00:58:23] ~support [00:58:23] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [00:58:37] ~support 50 isn't a lot and mainspace is easier to monitor than project [00:58:38] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [00:58:38] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support I like MJ's idea of closing this now but revisiting the entire concept later. [00:58:38] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [00:58:41] <SirCavalier> ~support [00:58:41] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [00:58:49] <JorrelFraajic> ~support I do see the reasoning behind the closing of a loophole [00:58:49] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [00:58:54] <IFYLOFD> ~oppose [00:58:54] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted. [00:59:04] ~oppose [00:59:04] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Oppose vote counted. [00:59:11] * CorellianPremier has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [00:59:17] <Toprawa> Closing in 10. [00:59:32] <Toprawa> ~close [00:59:33] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [00:59:35] <Toprawa> ~tally [00:59:36] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 3 [00:59:36] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13 [00:59:42] * CorellianPremier (636eac21@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/session) has joined [00:59:48] * CorellianPremier has quit (Changing host) [00:59:48] * CorellianPremier (636eac21@wookieepedia/CorellianPremier) has joined [00:59:48] * ChanServ gives voice to CorellianPremier [00:59:49] <MasterJonathan> That's consensus. [00:59:50] <Toprawa> Measure passes, assuming my math is right? [00:59:55] <Toprawa> I don't math. :P [00:59:58] <MasterJonathan> 4.33 to 1 [00:59:59] it does [01:00:00] <Brandon_Rhea> It passes. [01:00:05] <Toprawa> Ok. [01:00:07] * grunny removes voice from CorellianPremier [01:00:08] http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Xd1358/test3 shameless self-promotion [01:00:16] <CorellianPremier> All computers have had calculators since like the 1970s, Tope [01:00:19] <Toprawa> Moving on to Item 8. [01:00:20] <JorrelFraajic> Impressive [01:00:23] <Toprawa> Toprawa still has the floor. [01:00:25] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:00:31] <Toprawa> A proposal for planet articles. [01:01:10] <Toprawa> We have a certain issue, for lack of a better word, regarding fluff in planet articles. [01:01:28] <Toprawa> Observe, as an example, and I don't even think this is the worst one: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/D%27ian [01:01:39] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [01:01:39] * Supreme_Emperor has quit (Changing host) [01:01:39] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/Supreme-Emperor) has joined [01:01:39] * ChanServ gives voice to Supreme_Emperor [01:01:40] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Supreme_Emperor [01:01:44] * ecks removes voice from Supreme_Emperor [01:02:14] <Toprawa> We have planet articles reaching GA status because the bulk of their content is about indirect information regarding territories [01:02:24] <Toprawa> That entire second History paragraph is fluff. [01:03:03] <Toprawa> This information comes from Atlas and Warfare maps where we know a planet falls in a general territory, so we just assume that the planet is part of that territory too without confirmation [01:03:12] <Toprawa> I'm sure our FA and GA regulars know what I'm talking about [01:03:37] * LO|Away (~chatzilla@wikia/LordOblivion) has joined [01:03:37] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to LO|Away [01:03:44] <Toprawa> I'm proposing we add the following to the Layout Guide for planets addressing this issue: [01:03:45] * MasterJonathan removes voice from LO|Away [01:04:03] <Toprawa> In the Planet LG, this will go under the "History" section: [01:04:05] <Toprawa> "       Note: Planet articles will not document chronological territorial affiliations unless the planet, moon, etc. is explicitly identified on a map as belonging to a given territory. For example, The Essential Atlas and The Essential Guide to Warfare document the many shifting territorial boundaries throughout Star Wars history on galactic maps. Unless a planet is explicitly identified... [01:04:07] <Toprawa> ...on one of these maps as belonging to a territory, such as the Imperial Remnant or Darth Krayt's Galactic Empire, do not list the territory among the planet's affiliations in the article's infobox or body. " [01:04:24] <Toprawa> Floor is open. [01:04:27] <IFYLOFD> Hallelujah [01:04:34] <Darth_Culator> Meeeehhh. [01:04:38] This has been needed a long time. [01:04:39] <IFYLOFD> One trillion percent support [01:04:44] * Supreme_Emperor_ (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [01:04:46] * Darth_Culator sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:04:48] <Toprawa> There's simply no confirmation for the /vast/ majority of our articles with this kind of fluff. [01:04:49] <Cade> Oh my god per Floyd [01:04:53] <Richterbelmont10> uh oh [01:05:01] <Toprawa> Entire articles are being written and nominated with this stuff. [01:05:02] <Richterbelmont10> I don't get it [01:05:04] <Toprawa> It's fairly ridiculous [01:05:06] <MasterJonathan> One googolplex support. [01:05:09] <Brandon_Rhea> Don't we already have policies regarding assumptions and sourcing like this? What's the need for a brand new addendum that only adds to an already-large policy? [01:05:12] <Cade> It's like the Dilonexa planets [01:05:12] <SirCavalier> Sounds fine. I tend to follow this anyway. If i can't specifically identify the planet on the map, or a position on the map, I don't add it [01:05:20] <IFYLOFD> !boot Supreme_Emperor [01:05:20] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/Supreme-Emperor) has left (requested by Nuku-Nuku (IFYLOFD)) [01:05:30] <Toprawa> Brandon> Yes, but people are interpreting this as being confirmed info. This is to codify for our understanding that it's not confirmed. [01:05:38] <Richterbelmont10> So does this mean this info should be removed from the article? [01:05:42] <Cade> Yes [01:05:44] <Toprawa> Yes [01:05:46] * fetus (uid32386@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) has joined [01:05:47] * fetus has quit (Changing host) [01:05:47] * fetus (uid32386@wikia/Iiii-I-I-I) has joined [01:05:47] Yes [01:05:49] <SirCavalier> if unconfirmed [01:05:51] <SirCavalier> yes [01:05:52] <Cade> There's really nothing to not understand here [01:05:58] <Brandon_Rhea> Can't the existing policies be interpreted to not allow those interpretations? I feel like we already have what we need here. [01:06:08] <Zuko> yes [01:06:19] <Toprawa> There's really nothing in our policies addressing this issue, though [01:06:23] <JorrelFraajic> I'm guessing they couldn't, since the article made status. [01:06:27] <Cade> If you support the idea, why on earth are you objecting? There's nothing wrong with having a policy about it [01:06:37] <MasterJonathan> Brandon: Better to be explicit, especially when this stuff has been previously interpreted as complying with those policies. [01:06:40] <Cade> Sorry, dragon attacks make me cranky. [01:06:41] <Toprawa> This is really a case-by-case intepretation of canon info, and this is to help people "interpret it correctly" [01:06:42] <IFYLOFD> Chill, Cade [01:06:45] per MJ [01:06:54] <Brandon_Rhea> Cade - you shouldn't add new policies if an old one already covers it. That's why I'm asking questions here. [01:07:01] <Brandon_Rhea> I have yet to vote. I'm asking questions. [01:07:05] <Richterbelmont10> why do we need a policy to remove unverified info? [01:07:13] <Zuko> because its unverified [01:07:19] lol [01:07:24] <Toprawa> It's not unverified in the sense that you understand the word. [01:07:25] <MasterJonathan> Because people have been thinking that it is verified. [01:07:25] This occurs in literally dozens of status articles. [01:07:29] <SirCavalier> Ah, I understand what Brandon is saying. This would technically fall under the OR rule in any case [01:07:37] <Cade> This is codifying a specific, rampant issue that's sort of ambiguous [01:07:47] <Toprawa> This is simply a note on the LG to clarify that this information shouldn't be added. [01:07:49] <MasterJonathan> Yes, per Cade [01:07:53] <MasterJonathan> And Tope [01:07:59] <Richterbelmont10> I wish stuff like this would be discussed in a CT where I could digest what everyone is saying [01:08:00] <Toprawa> Without such codifying this, we're left up to individual debates on every single planet nom [01:08:03] <Cade> If it wasn't ambiguous, we wouldn't need this. [01:08:09] <Darth_Culator> As much as I kinda don't care about planet articles, this is a valid point. Imaginary territory boundaries are meaningless unless enforced by blockades or interdiction or what have you. As the Hitchhiker's Guide says, "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is." You could concievably have a planet belonging to one empire in another [01:08:10] <Darth_Culator> empire's territory because the hyperlanes to it are so well hidden, and I think the Rebels did just that several times. [01:08:21] * Supreme_Emperor_ has quit (Client Quit) [01:08:24] <Brandon_Rhea> Tope - that last part, individual debates, that convinces me. [01:08:27] <Toprawa> per Culator [01:08:33] <Toprawa> Cool [01:08:40] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [01:08:40] * Supreme_Emperor has quit (Changing host) [01:08:40] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/Supreme-Emperor) has joined [01:08:40] * ChanServ gives voice to Supreme_Emperor [01:08:41] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Supreme_Emperor [01:08:42] <Cade> The Sith Empire hid in the edge of the Republic for centuries [01:08:45] * ChanServ removes voice from Supreme_Emperor [01:08:48] <Toprawa> Ok, I think our individual issues are clarified, then [01:08:49] <MasterJonathan> Entirely per Culator [01:08:51] <Toprawa> I'm opening the vote. [01:08:54] <Toprawa> ~open [01:08:54] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:08:56] <IFYLOFD> ~support [01:08:57] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:08:58] <Toprawa> ~support [01:08:58] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:08:58] <MasterJonathan> ~support [01:08:58] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [01:08:59] ~support [01:08:59] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [01:09:00] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [01:09:00] <Zuko> ~support [01:09:00] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:09:00] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [01:09:01] <CorellianPremier> ~support [01:09:01] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [01:09:01] ~support [01:09:01] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [01:09:02] ~support [01:09:03] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:09:06] <JorrelFraajic> ~support [01:09:06] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:09:06] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support [01:09:06] <Darth_Culator> ~support [01:09:06] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. [01:09:06] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [01:09:07] <Cade> ~support [01:09:08] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [01:09:09] ~support [01:09:09] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [01:09:16] <SirCavalier> ~support [01:09:16] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [01:09:34] <Toprawa> Closing in 5 [01:09:42] <Toprawa> ~close [01:09:42] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:09:43] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:09:44] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 15 [01:09:46] <Toprawa> Motion passed. [01:09:48] <SirCavalier> I think cross reffing it in the No OR policy would be a good idea too, not just in the LG [01:09:57] <Cade> ^ [01:09:59] <Toprawa> We can do that. [01:10:05] <Toprawa> Item 9 is back to Jang/ecks [01:10:09] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:10:22] <IFYLOFD> Jangus where u [01:10:27] WP:SIG [01:10:27] â†’ Vote 1 [01:10:27] I will keep this brief: There is simply no reason to dissect the timestamp and display it in an unconventional manner. In order to cover up the loophole in WP:SIG, item #6 needs to tweaked. I've gone ahead and added the word "default" in front of "timestamp." [01:10:27]    6. Your signature must include the default timestamp in all public usage. Additionally, the timestamp must include the following: [01:10:28] The second bullet will be changed to the following: [01:10:32] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:10:34]    The timestamp must be displayed in its default timestamp form with all information present. [01:10:36] floor is open [01:10:53] * MasterJonathan grumbles. [01:10:59] <Cade> heh [01:11:02] <JorrelFraajic> So basically you have to use ~, not just. Got it. [01:11:19] * JorrelFraajic grumbles too :P [01:11:26] <Supreme_Emperor> XD [01:11:28] <Cade> No, it's outlawing certain sigs that break up the timestamp, Jorrel :P [01:11:34] * dogma grumbles for the hell of it [01:11:38] <Toprawa> pizzaq [01:11:42] <Toprawa> Stay on topic! [01:11:43] <MasterJonathan> But I like having the weekday in the timestamp. :P [01:11:44] <Darth_Culator> You all owe me a batch of your special Grumblecakes. [01:11:44] <IFYLOFD> VHAT [01:11:45] <Toprawa> :P [01:11:52] <JorrelFraajic> That's what I mean, Cade. truncates the default Date. [01:11:53] no, ~ is fine. It's only if you format your own timestamps in your sig [01:11:59] [01:12:11] there you go [01:12:15] ^ [01:12:15] <Toprawa> ^ [01:12:15] <Richterbelmont10> are you talking about MJ's funky sig? [01:12:21] <MasterJonathan> Yes. He is. [01:12:25] <MasterJonathan> :P [01:12:31] <JorrelFraajic> My short-lived one too! [01:12:35] <Brandon_Rhea> So let me ask this, since I manually type my signature while editing. As long as it includes the time in UTC and the date, you're good? [01:12:44] <Brandon_Rhea> And as long as it's not weirdly formatted? [01:12:46] <Brandon_Rhea> Just standard text. [01:12:51] <Toprawa> Yes [01:12:53] <Darth_Culator> NO [01:12:53] <MasterJonathan> Why do you manually type it in the first place? [01:12:54] <Brandon_Rhea> Cool [01:12:54] <IFYLOFD> Yes [01:12:54] <Darth_Culator> Yes. [01:12:56] the timestamp should be in the form that is [01:13:05] <IFYLOFD> Because Brandon's got some fancy pants Wikia sig [01:13:06] <JorrelFraajic> That's an extra ~ ecks [01:13:10] <Brandon_Rhea> MJ - because my default sig is my Wikia sig, and I don't use that while editing as a user. [01:13:10] ie no 2014-06-29 4:12 EEST [01:13:23] JorrelFraajic, five tildes is timestamp-only [01:13:26] <JorrelFraajic> OH [01:13:27] Brandon: use a edit button for an alternate sig [01:13:32] <Richterbelmont10> I like MJ's sig. It's cool [01:13:36] <JorrelFraajic> I ALWAYS WONDERED [01:13:41] <MasterJonathan> So use a /sig subpage and an ifexist function in preferences to check for that [01:13:47] <MasterJonathan> I already do that. [01:13:55] so anyway [01:13:58] <Toprawa> Ok, I think we're in understanding [01:14:00] <Richterbelmont10> why is this a problem? [01:14:00] <Toprawa> Opening voting [01:14:07] <JorrelFraajic> I oppose and feel that everyone's signature should look like MJ's :P [01:14:11] <Toprawa> ~open [01:14:11] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:14:13] <IFYLOFD> Get in the Zone: AutoZone. [01:14:13] <JorrelFraajic> ~support [01:14:13] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:14:14] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [01:14:14] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:14:16] <Darth_Culator> ~support [01:14:17] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [01:14:17] <Toprawa> ~support [01:14:17] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:14:19] because custom formats make things harder to read [01:14:20] <Zuko> ~support [01:14:21] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [01:14:22] ~support [01:14:22] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [01:14:25] <IFYLOFD> ~support sucks to suck, Jorrel. [01:14:25] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:14:25] <SirCavalier> ~support [01:14:25] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [01:14:26] <MasterJonathan> ~protest [01:14:30] ~support [01:14:31] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [01:14:31] <MasterJonathan> ~sigh [01:14:33] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose [01:14:33] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted. [01:14:34] <Darth_Culator> THAT'S NOT A THING [01:14:35] <Toprawa> Protest is not recognized. Sorry :P [01:14:38] <MasterJonathan> ~support I guess [01:14:38] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [01:14:47] ~support [01:14:48] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:14:48] ~support [01:14:48] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [01:14:48] * Supreme_Emperor_ (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [01:14:57] <Toprawa> Closing in 10 [01:14:57] <Hands> ~support [01:14:58] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [01:15:06] <Toprawa> ~close [01:15:07] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:15:08] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:15:08] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 1 [01:15:08] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13 [01:15:11] <Toprawa> Measure passed. [01:15:15] but wait [01:15:17] THERES MORE [01:15:19] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:15:21] â†’ Vote 2 [01:15:21] I realize that signatures can be customized for personal preference, but customized signatures that disrupt the flow of messages (be it talk page, CT, et al) because of their coding should be dismissed. Through out the years, we've been reducing questionable signature coding that causes disruption among our editors. Similar to border colors, I propose to add the following under "The following are specifically prohibited: [01:15:21]    HTML tables and/or Wiki tables [01:15:24] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:15:27] floor is open [01:15:29] * Ems has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [01:15:40] * MasterJonathan grumbles louder. :P [01:15:43] <IFYLOFD> !boot Supreme_Emperor [01:15:44] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/Supreme-Emperor) has left (requested by Nuku-Nuku (IFYLOFD)) [01:15:53] <Richterbelmont10> what's  HTML tables? [01:15:53] <Zuko> HTML tables ? [01:15:55] <Toprawa> They do make the individual line on that sig larger than normal on some computers [01:15:57] * dogma eats pizzaq [01:16:00] <Brandon_Rhea> So because I'm a tech n00b, what does this prohibit in practice? [01:16:01] * Supreme_Emperor_ has quit (Client Quit) [01:16:04] <Toprawa> Which in, principle, violates WP:SIG [01:16:05] <MasterJonathan> Even though my existing sig was dead after the first vote. [01:16:06] <Cade> Basically, MJ's sig [01:16:08] <Richterbelmont10> Just answer this, is my signature ok? [01:16:09] as long as your custom formatting isn't causing more linebreaks, I don't mind it [01:16:17] <MasterJonathan> Tope: So does superscript and subscript [01:16:20] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@redacted) has joined [01:16:21] * Supreme_Emperor has quit (Changing host) [01:16:21] * Supreme_Emperor (~chatzilla@wookieepedia/Supreme-Emperor) has joined [01:16:21] * ChanServ gives voice to Supreme_Emperor [01:16:22] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to Supreme_Emperor [01:16:29] <Cade> PREEM GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER [01:16:30] <Toprawa> If you keep it small enough, though, it's not noticeable, MJ [01:16:34] <Toprawa> The tables make it very noticeable [01:16:37] <MasterJonathan> Brandon: It prohibits my signature. :P [01:16:43] * Darth_Culator removes voice from Supreme_Emperor [01:16:46] yeah, just make sure it doesn't cause excessive spacing [01:16:53] <Toprawa> Not to pick on you, MJ, but your sig does that specifically on one of my laptops [01:16:55] if the line height is still the same as normally, then it's fine, imo [01:16:56] <Toprawa> It is rather annoying :P [01:17:29] <Brandon_Rhea> So not to belabor the questions... [01:17:31] <JorrelFraajic> It's noticeable on the same screens that superscript and subscript are noticeable [01:17:33] <Brandon_Rhea> Is super/subscript allowed? [01:17:40] <Brandon_Rhea> I.e. - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Brandon_Rhea/sig [01:17:46] yes, it's not html/wiki table [01:17:49] <MasterJonathan> That's been allowed for like forever. [01:17:52] <Brandon_Rhea> Ok cool. [01:17:53] <JorrelFraajic> It has [01:17:56] <Richterbelmont10> is my sig ok? [01:18:02] <IFYLOFD> No. [01:18:07] <Richterbelmont10> WHAT?? [01:18:11] <Toprawa> Superscript or subscript nesting is disallowed [01:18:14] <MasterJonathan> Richter: Give me a link to it. [01:18:23] <Richterbelmont10> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:SH:Can_we_add_%22Military%22_to_the_Government_Infobox_template%3F?t=20140628222151 [01:18:31] <Richterbelmont10> sig at bottom [01:18:45] <Zuko> Rich [01:18:45] <Zuko> don you have a subpage ? [01:18:45] <Cade> Your sig is the same as many [01:18:49] <JorrelFraajic> Panic descends upon the Wookieepedians as cries of "is my sig okay" ring out through the night [01:18:49] <Darth_Culator> Also the image is too tall. 20 pixels maximum height, yours is 23. [01:18:52] <IFYLOFD> Banworthy, IMO [01:18:54] <MasterJonathan> Yeah, that's perfectly fine. [01:18:56] <Brandon_Rhea> Jorrel - XD [01:18:57] <Cade> Per Culator, though [01:19:01] <Toprawa> Ok, any other real questions? [01:19:09] <Toprawa> Opening the floor, then [01:19:12] <Toprawa> the voting, I mean [01:19:14] <Toprawa> ~open [01:19:14] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:19:19] <IFYLOFD> ~support [01:19:20] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:19:20] <Cade> ~support [01:19:20] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [01:19:21] <Toprawa> ~support [01:19:21] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:19:27] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [01:19:27] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:19:27] <MasterJonathan> ~protest [01:19:28] <Darth_Culator> ~support times a billion [01:19:29] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [01:19:29] <MasterJonathan> ~sigh [01:19:32] <MasterJonathan> ~support [01:19:32] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [01:19:34] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support [01:19:35] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. [01:19:37] <IFYLOFD> ~banrichter [01:19:40] <JorrelFraajic> ~support though I'm pretty sure mine breaks lines legally! [01:19:40] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:19:40] ~support [01:19:40] <PurpleTentacle> dogma: Support vote counted. [01:19:41] ~indifferent [01:19:50] ~support [01:19:50] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:19:55] <Hands> ~support [01:19:56] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [01:19:56] <JorrelFraajic> Is ~abstain a thing? [01:19:57] <Darth_Culator> ~MOARSIGRESTRICTIONSNAO [01:20:06] <Toprawa> Closing in 10 [01:20:08] JorrelFraajic, yes, it's called "don't hit enter" [01:20:12] <JorrelFraajic> Lame [01:20:18] <Toprawa> ~close [01:20:18] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:20:19] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:20:20] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11 [01:20:20] <JorrelFraajic> I wanna be on the record as abstaining [01:20:21] <JorrelFraajic> :P [01:20:22] <Toprawa> Measure passed [01:20:25] <Toprawa> Jorrel is on record. :P [01:20:38] <MasterJonathan> I'm on the record as protesting and sighing. :P [01:20:39] <JorrelFraajic> I am the record [01:20:44] <Toprawa> Culator has agreed to push his item to the end. [01:20:46] <Darth_Culator> Now I get to officially wait for my thing until the end. [01:20:48] <Darth_Culator> Yay. [01:20:49] <Toprawa> So we're on to Jorrel. [01:20:52] nooooooooo [01:20:53] <JorrelFraajic> Oh, wait, it's my thing now. [01:20:58] * qwebirc37101 (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has joined [01:21:09] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:21:09] * ecks gives voice to JorrelFraajic [01:21:16] * CorellianPremier has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [01:21:28] * qwebirc37101 (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has left [01:21:37] <JorrelFraajic> Now, first things first: I don't know a thing about what this does on the coding side of things, so it is very possibly something to oppose based on that. [01:21:42] * qwebirc37101 (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has joined [01:21:51] <JorrelFraajic> That said, compare http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperator_%28Imperial-class%29 and http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Jorrel_Fraajic/Test [01:22:38] <JorrelFraajic> In the second, I have used to shrink the descriptor so it's not as noticeable as the title, which is the main focus of the article. If we didn't need to disambiguate stuff, it wouldn't be there. [01:22:46] * dogma has quit (Quit: Page closed) [01:23:00] * Zuko has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [01:23:21] <JorrelFraajic> That's it. [01:23:28] <Toprawa> Floor is open. [01:23:29] <JorrelFraajic> I need a Xanax. [01:23:31] <MasterJonathan> For the record, there would be no coding issues that I'm aware of here. [01:23:33] <IFYLOFD> This is cool and I like it. [01:23:42] <SirCavalier> So do I [01:23:47] <Toprawa> Question: Is this applicable to /Canon and/or /Legends? [01:23:48] <MasterJonathan> unmute pls [01:23:52] proposal to have blinking neon colored titles [01:23:53] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:23:55] <Brandon_Rhea> Very nice! [01:23:56] * Zuko (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has joined [01:23:57] <Richterbelmont10> You want to shrink everything that's in parenthesis? [01:24:00] <SirCavalier> I'm sure there's a way to put the coding in the Title template to do it automatically [01:24:02] <JorrelFraajic> Yes. [01:24:09] <Cade> Don't use [01:24:15] <Toprawa> Could you mock one up right quick, Jorrel, for /Canon ? [01:24:17] <Brandon_Rhea> If you can do what Cav is saying, even better (and yeah, use ) [01:24:17] <Cade> Hmmm. I can look, Cav [01:24:20] <JorrelFraajic> Yeah, hang on [01:24:32] <SirCavalier> Look, everyone knows what i bloody mean [01:24:32] <Cade> Tope: Why? [01:24:37] <Cade> The /Canon thing is gone [01:24:37] <Toprawa> Just so I can see it. :P [01:24:39] <MasterJonathan> DISPLAYTITLE is far better than the hack. [01:24:41] <Toprawa> Or /Legends [01:24:44] <Toprawa> whatever it is [01:24:47] <Toprawa> Oh, that's right [01:24:48] <JorrelFraajic> Hmm [01:24:49] <Toprawa> We got rid of it [01:24:52] <Cade> ^ [01:24:55] <MasterJonathan> Yeah, we voted to get rid of those. :P [01:24:56] <Toprawa> Nevermind, then :P [01:25:01] * Zuko2 (redacted@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/session) has joined [01:25:06] <MasterJonathan> Although... [01:25:09] <Cade> Okay, here's the question [01:25:12] <JorrelFraajic> That's actually what made me think of it. [01:25:13] <Zuko2> ok dont boot me [01:25:21] <MasterJonathan> I would prefer this idea over killing /Canon altogether. [01:25:24] * Zuko has quit (Client Quit) [01:25:25] * Zuko2 is now known as Zuko [01:25:35] <Cade> Are there any titles that use parantheticals other than for disambig? [01:25:48] <MasterJonathan> Because it retains the ability to form links by copy and paste. [01:25:50] <Toprawa> hmmm [01:26:00] <Cade> I'd still say no. [01:26:04] <Toprawa> Cade> None that I can think of [01:26:14] <Toprawa> There might be one with brackets [01:26:16] <MasterJonathan> One that I know of [01:26:22] <MasterJonathan> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fizz-Pop_Cap_%28with_foil_cluster%29 [01:26:30] <Toprawa> heh [01:26:32] <Darth_Culator> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_Get_Banned_%28Have_a_Mind%29 [01:26:35] <Cade> Alright, then I can make something up with a few exceptions [01:26:42] <Toprawa> I like this idea [01:26:44] <Cade> If you find ones, leave it on my talk page. [01:26:47] <Toprawa> It looks snazzy [01:26:58] <Toprawa> Ok, we're voting [01:27:00] <Toprawa> ~open [01:27:01] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:27:02] <JorrelFraajic> To further the idea and the differentiation, we could bold titles as well [01:27:07] <Cade> ~support [01:27:07] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [01:27:09] <JorrelFraajic> That would have to be a global thing. [01:27:11] <Cade> We can tweak it later. [01:27:12] <JorrelFraajic> ~support [01:27:12] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:27:13] <Toprawa> ~support [01:27:13] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:27:13] <MasterJonathan> not necessary [01:27:14] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [01:27:14] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:27:16] <MasterJonathan> ~support [01:27:17] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [01:27:18] ~support [01:27:18] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:27:23] <IFYLOFD> ~support [01:27:24] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:27:24] * qwebirc37101 has quit (Quit: Page closed) [01:27:32] ~support [01:27:32] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [01:27:35] <SirCavalier> ~support [01:27:36] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [01:27:40] <Darth_Culator> ~support [01:27:40] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [01:27:44] * CorellianPremier (redacted@gateway/web/freenode/session) has joined [01:27:44] <Hands> ~support [01:27:44] <PurpleTentacle> Hands: Support vote counted. [01:27:59] <Supreme_Emperor> ~support [01:27:59] <PurpleTentacle> Supreme_Emperor: Support vote counted. [01:28:02] <Toprawa> CP, we're voting on Jorrel's thing. [01:28:07] * CorellianPremier has quit (Changing host) [01:28:07] * CorellianPremier (redacted@wookieepedia/CorellianPremier) has joined [01:28:07] * ChanServ gives voice to CorellianPremier [01:28:17] <CorellianPremier> ~support [01:28:17] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [01:28:25] <Toprawa> Closing in 5 [01:28:30] <Toprawa> ~close [01:28:31] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:28:32] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:28:33] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 13 [01:28:35] <Toprawa> Measure passes [01:28:42] <JorrelFraajic> I honestly wasn't expecting that. [01:28:43] * doctorpenguin (~doctorpen@redacted) has joined [01:28:44] <JorrelFraajic> :P [01:28:44] <Toprawa> Another Jang. [01:28:53] * Toprawa removes voice from CorellianPremier JorrelFraajic [01:29:04] ah [01:29:06] me again [01:29:07] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:29:22] tl;dr IRC QDB takeover [01:29:24] I am currently producing a brand new QDB database from scratch using MySQL and ColdFusion (I'm very proficient in both). The new database will be more reliant, more stable/secure, and trusted Wookieepedia administrators will have access to a new admin control panel which will complement the new qdb. Currently, the project entered its alpha stage of development: http://db.jangeth.com [01:29:24] The submitting of quotes works (test it yourself), but the system lacks what the current qdb has. For more information of what's being developed check out http://db.jangeth.com/tasks.cfm [01:29:24] As for the look and presentation: I've went with a monobook style look for the new qdb to match the Wook. [01:29:26] Zervonn, our current qdb host, should maintain the current qdb until the new one is ready for deployment. [01:29:57] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:30:04] I don't mind it [01:30:08] <Cade> This is for us IRC folk [01:30:11] <Toprawa> Will Jang's have a search function? [01:30:15] <JorrelFraajic> ^ [01:30:22] <Toprawa> We need to be able to find ourselves :P [01:30:28] "stretch goal" [01:30:39] <Darth_Culator> I think it's promising but too soon to commit. [01:30:41] <JorrelFraajic> I'm not paying. [01:30:57] <Cade> I honestly don't see why this is a Mofference thing [01:31:03] <JorrelFraajic> That too [01:31:05] <IFYLOFD> Yeah [01:31:13] <Cade> The QDB's not part of the actual site [01:31:16] <JorrelFraajic> I was expecting a QDB shutdown. [01:31:29] <MasterJonathan> This doesn't need a vote. [01:31:30] Per Cade. [01:31:37] <Supreme_Emperor> i feel like this could just be handled via normal IRC [01:31:39] <Brandon_Rhea> Per those guys ^ [01:31:43] <Zuko> per Mj [01:31:56] <MasterJonathan> Nothing to see here. Move along. :P [01:32:06] <CorellianPremier> as long as its kept [01:32:09] <Toprawa> Ok, we're not going to vote, then. Jang can just do what he wants with it and we can talk randomly on IRC about it. [01:32:19] <IFYLOFD> Sounds like a plan [01:32:19] yep [01:32:25] <Toprawa> Number 13. Back to Toprawa. [01:32:26] <JorrelFraajic> ~take it to CT [01:33:12] <Toprawa> Ok. [01:33:19] <Toprawa> ecks, if you'd please [01:33:30] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:33:38] 4:30AM slowness is getting to me [01:33:49] <Toprawa> I'd to propose standardizing some minor infobox formatting. [01:34:27] <Toprawa> The proposal is here. We would then add this to the Infobox section of the Layout Guide: http://domia-abr-wyrda.wikia.com/wiki/Toprawa [01:34:32] <Toprawa> Floor is open. [01:34:37] <Toprawa> I'd like to* [01:34:47] * MasterFred (~textual@wookieepedia/Master-Fredcerique) has joined [01:34:48] * ChanServ gives voice to MasterFred [01:34:49] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to MasterFred [01:34:55] * MasterJonathan removes voice from MasterFred [01:34:55] * ecks removes voice from MasterFred [01:34:58] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:35:00] <JorrelFraajic> That's how I always did it. The blank indenting was an alternative? [01:35:05] <Richterbelmont10> I was actually looking for that! [01:35:06] <Toprawa> It's basically left up to user choice. [01:35:09] <Toprawa> We mostly use the bullets, though [01:35:10] <MasterJonathan> No. [01:35:13] <Toprawa> This is by far the most common method [01:35:24] <Brandon_Rhea> Didn't even know this wasn't the set standard already. Pretty-straight forward. Agreed. [01:35:30] <MasterJonathan> I don't like the use of bullets on the first level. [01:35:30] <Richterbelmont10> I was looking all over for the rule for this [01:35:44] <Toprawa> MJ prefers the blanks, I know. :P [01:35:49] <Toprawa> He uses them in his talk page messages. :P [01:35:50] <MasterJonathan> It makes then not line up with single-item fields, which looks ugly. [01:35:50] <SirCavalier> I tend to use blank idention when there's only one main line followed by sub affiliations [01:35:57] <IFYLOFD> Per Cav [01:35:58] <CorellianPremier> Heh, its standard per GAN [01:35:59] <MasterJonathan> It's not about : vs. *. [01:36:03] <Toprawa> The bullets just offset everything much more nicely. [01:36:12] <Toprawa> They make things more readable. [01:36:13] <IFYLOFD> I'm fine with changing it [01:36:21] <MasterJonathan> It's about lining up with non-bulleted single-item fields. [01:36:37] <Toprawa> I don't think that's much of an issue, MJ [01:36:38] <MasterJonathan> I like the use of bullets for second and third levels and so on. [01:36:48] <MasterJonathan> It looks ugly to me. [01:37:03] <Toprawa> Well, this is pretty straightforward. [01:37:06] <Toprawa> So I'll open the voting. [01:37:10] <Toprawa> ~open [01:37:10] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:37:12] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose [01:37:12] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted. [01:37:14] <Toprawa> ~support [01:37:14] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:37:15] <CorellianPremier> ~support [01:37:15] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [01:37:15] <IFYLOFD> ~support [01:37:15] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:37:18] ~support [01:37:18] <Cade> ~support [01:37:18] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [01:37:18] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:37:19] <Richterbelmont10> ~support [01:37:19] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Support vote counted. [01:37:21] ~support [01:37:22] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [01:37:22] <JorrelFraajic> ~support [01:37:23] ~support bullets all the way [01:37:23] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:37:23] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [01:37:24] <SirCavalier> ~support [01:37:24] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [01:37:25] <Zuko> ~oppose [01:37:25] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Oppose vote counted. [01:37:26] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [01:37:26] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:37:56] <Toprawa> Closing in 5 [01:38:02] <Toprawa> ~close [01:38:02] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:38:04] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:38:05] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 2 [01:38:05] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 11 [01:38:09] <Toprawa> Measure passes. [01:38:18] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:38:26] <Toprawa> Item 14 is still Toprawa. [01:38:42] <Toprawa> Ok, I've noticed SFH, who is our regular default welcome guy, hasn't been welcoming people lately [01:38:55] * MasterFred has quit (Client Quit) [01:38:57] <Toprawa> I asked him about it, and he said his laptop died, and that he can't welcome people easily on his tablet. [01:39:02] <Toprawa> So that's his temporary issue [01:39:21] <Toprawa> He said he'd be fine with activating the Wikia Welcome Bot while he's done [01:39:22] * Supreme_Emperor has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]) [01:39:23] <Toprawa> down* [01:39:36] <Toprawa> Which I think he needs to be done, because people need to be welcomed and introduced to our policies, etc. [01:39:42] <Toprawa> And people aren't being welcomed. [01:39:48] <Toprawa> Floor's open. [01:39:54] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:39:55] <MasterJonathan> Do I need to repeat myself from a few years ago here? The stupid thing thanks vandals for their edits and creates useless talk pages. Human welcoming is infinitely better. [01:40:01] <Brandon_Rhea> Welcome Bot accomplishes the same end result, without someone having to put in the manual time. It makes no difference to the end user since a real person's name can still be auto-signed. This is a no-brainer. Agreed. [01:40:02] <IFYLOFD> I've said before that I like the point of contact [01:40:12] <Zuko> S-E does it often [01:40:12] <Brandon_Rhea> There is a point of contact on the welcome bot. [01:40:25] <Toprawa> SE only does it because I asked someone to pick up SFH's slack [01:40:28] <MasterJonathan> And I flatly refuse to let a bot that I have no control over sign my name to an edit that I didn't make. [01:40:29] <Toprawa> He doesn't do it otherwise, though [01:40:31] <Zuko> ow [01:40:32] <IFYLOFD> Where? From what I've seen it just puts the template on [01:40:40] <Zuko> well i do it sometime but.. [01:40:45] <Brandon_Rhea> Floyd, you can customize it to say that the last admin who edited has their name signed. [01:40:50] <Zuko> bot help would be great [01:40:51] <Toprawa> Everyone does it someitmes, but the vast majority go unwelcomed [01:40:53] <Toprawa> That's a problem [01:40:54] <MasterJonathan> And I don't want that. [01:41:01] <IFYLOFD> Yeah, I don't want that either [01:41:05] <Zuko> but thinking of it [01:41:17] <Toprawa> You can put my name on it, for all I care [01:41:17] <Zuko> whats the diffrence with the bot and the wikia automatic mw thing ? [01:41:19] <CorellianPremier> Will it put the regular template on or something plainer? [01:41:28] <Toprawa> Regular template, CP [01:41:30] <Brandon_Rhea> Zuko - those are the same thing. [01:41:36] <IFYLOFD> But I don't see any other way, really [01:41:37] <Brandon_Rhea> You can use whatever template you want, so the regular one. [01:41:50] <JorrelFraajic> It's a temporary thing. [01:41:53] <Zuko> k [01:42:04] <Toprawa> Yeah, the caveat is that SFH gets his job back when he's ready :P [01:42:12] <Zuko> there really is many people who doesn't get welcome ? [01:42:16] <Toprawa> Yes. [01:42:22] <Zuko> oouch [01:42:23] <MasterJonathan> Fine. Just DO NOT put any signature on the automatic welcomes that does not belong to the person that made the edit. [01:42:25] <Toprawa> I'd pull up the New User log, but I'm lazy [01:42:27] <JorrelFraajic> There are 2 in the RC right now. [01:42:28] <Toprawa> There are literally hundreds going unwelcomed [01:42:40] <Toprawa> SE got most of them recently [01:42:45] <Toprawa> But before that, it went back like three months [01:42:47] <Zuko> 0_0 [01:43:13] <Toprawa> Ok, we're opening voting. [01:43:15] <Toprawa> ~open [01:43:15] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:43:18] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support Personally I'd keep it on permanently, but I certainly won't begrudge someone who wants to do it manually if they so choose. So agreed on the temporary activation. [01:43:19] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:43:23] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose [01:43:23] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted. [01:43:23] ~support [01:43:23] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [01:43:26] <Toprawa> ~support [01:43:26] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:43:32] <Zuko> ~support [01:43:32] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [01:43:34] <IFYLOFD> ~support [01:43:34] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:43:40] <JorrelFraajic> ~support They tewk our jarbs! [01:43:40] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:43:41] ~support [01:43:42] <PurpleTentacle> grunny: Support vote counted. [01:43:46] ~support [01:43:46] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:43:52] <MasterJonathan> ~support ONLY IF my name is not forced onto the messages. Otherwise this is an ~oppose. [01:43:53] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [01:43:56] <Toprawa> per Jorrel :P [01:44:09] <Toprawa> We won't put your name on it, MJ :P [01:44:12] <SirCavalier> ~support [01:44:13] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [01:44:13] <JorrelFraajic> Wait, no, ~support only if RoboCade has to do it. [01:44:15] <JorrelFraajic> :P [01:44:16] <MasterJonathan> Good. [01:44:27] <Toprawa> Closing in 5 [01:44:34] <Toprawa> ~close [01:44:35] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:44:36] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:44:36] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 1 [01:44:36] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 10 [01:44:39] <Toprawa> Measure passes [01:44:40] <Brandon_Rhea> I THINK (don't quote me) you can use a specific person's name. [01:44:53] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:44:54] <Toprawa> Cav has the floor for Item 15. Or 14, technically. [01:45:00] <SirCavalier> Right [01:45:28] <SirCavalier> Basically an issue has arisen recently with regards to citing Twitter posts that have been deleted since their inclusion in articles [01:46:20] <SirCavalier> So I propose that any social media post used in referencing articles should be accompanied with an appropriate screenshot uploaded to the Wook and linked in the reference itself so that we never have to worry about deleted posts in the future [01:46:43] <SirCavalier> This would apply to all social media posts, including Twitter, Facebook, tumblr, etc [01:47:29] <SirCavalier> We would also porbably need to go back through all post already in place and upload stuff for them as well [01:47:40] <SirCavalier> And that's it in a nutshell [01:47:50] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:47:52] <JorrelFraajic> We do this with e-mail references, no? I think this is a given. [01:47:53] <MasterJonathan> How would this affect posts that have already been deleted? [01:47:55] <Brandon_Rhea> There needs to be an added detail on this: we need to be able to verify that, at the time the photo is uploaded, the status/tweet/whatever still exists. Otherwise, if someone uploads a photo and the status/tweet isn't there anymore, they could just as well be making it up. [01:47:56] <Cade> Per Jorrel [01:47:58] <IFYLOFD> No effing brainer [01:48:03] <Richterbelmont10> is it possible to retrieve a deleted tweets? [01:48:12] <Toprawa> No, Richter [01:48:13] <IFYLOFD> Nope [01:48:14] <Toprawa> And that's the whole problem here [01:48:19] <SirCavalier> Which is the reason for this [01:48:24] <JorrelFraajic> Brandon brings up a good point [01:48:28] <SirCavalier> it will also let us see which references are dead [01:48:46] <Toprawa> Brandon> Ideas for that? [01:48:50] <Richterbelmont10> this is a good idea. Will the screenshot be uploaded via Image Uploader? [01:49:02] <SirCavalier> Standard image upload to the Wook, yes [01:49:05] <JorrelFraajic> I'm guessing this only ever comes up on nominations, so it can be verified there, but in other applications it could go missed. [01:49:06] <SirCavalier> Like any other image [01:49:07] <Brandon_Rhea> Yes, I have an idea. [01:49:15] <MasterJonathan> Richter: Preferably Special:Upload [01:49:29] <Cade> Which is the only way you're allowed to [01:49:33] <Richterbelmont10> that's what I meant [01:49:39] <Brandon_Rhea> Have an admin-protected page for social media photos. The page serves as a means to take it off unused images. An admin looks at it, checks for the accompanying post, and - if it's there - then adds the image. [01:49:40] <SirCavalier> Well, the template can be modified to point out missing image field info, correct? [01:49:47] <Brandon_Rhea> A little extra work for an admin, but that's the best I can think of. [01:49:54] <MasterJonathan> [01:47:24] MasterJonathan: How would this affect posts that have already been deleted? [01:49:56] <Brandon_Rhea> Or someone just needs to make sure they're actively watching those uploads. [01:50:02] <SirCavalier> We have the notorphan cat for that [01:50:21] <Brandon_Rhea> Cav, even so, it makes sure someone else's eyes are on it to verify. [01:50:23] <JorrelFraajic> I see what Brandon means though. We need a way to verify at the reference's inclusion. [01:50:48] <Toprawa> I see a potential problem here, though [01:50:57] <Toprawa> Sometimes some of this information is obtained via private messaging with the SW VIP. [01:51:04] <Toprawa> It's impossible for anyone else to verify this [01:51:18] <Toprawa> Emails, for one [01:51:20] <Toprawa> FB PMs [01:51:22] <JorrelFraajic> We already have this issue with emails. [01:51:22] <Richterbelmont10> can't you take a picture of the tweet? [01:51:23] <Toprawa> Twitter PMs [01:51:27] <SirCavalier> But usually, any PMs with VIPs have to be cleared for public use in the first pplace. [01:51:32] <Brandon_Rhea> Unless an admin reaches out to that VIP as well to confirm. Double sourcing, basically. [01:51:38] <SirCavalier> Much like emails [01:51:47] <Toprawa> It doesn't really happen, though, Cade [01:51:52] <Cade> ? [01:51:54] <Toprawa> I use Lelal as an example, not to badmouth him at all. [01:51:57] <Toprawa> sorry, Cav* [01:52:13] <Toprawa> Lelal talked to one of the Episode I concept artists and got her to confirm something for BTS Info [01:52:27] <Toprawa> I don't think he went through any formal approval method -- nor do I think he should have to [01:52:40] <Toprawa> I trust Lelal, as one example [01:52:42] <Richterbelmont10> Are these tweets still around: [01:52:42] <Richterbelmont10> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Canon [01:52:50] <JorrelFraajic> I don't think you should need approval to communicate with VIPs for info [01:52:51] <Toprawa> Many of those tweets have been deleted, Richter [01:53:03] <JorrelFraajic> Just approval to use the info in sourcing. [01:53:07] <MasterJonathan> I think using our natural bullshit detector is fine here. [01:53:19] yeah [01:53:20] <Toprawa> I'm with MJ on this one, I think [01:53:22] <Brandon_Rhea> That's fair enough. [01:53:24] <JorrelFraajic> Which is what Cav looks like he's saying by "cleared for public use" [01:53:31] Per MJ [01:53:32] <MasterJonathan> If it sounds reasonable and the user is trusted, allow it. Otherwise, contact the VIP for confirmation. [01:53:39] <SirCavalier> Yeah. [01:53:41] <JorrelFraajic> Yeah [01:53:48] <IFYLOFD> Cade isn't allowed to do any of this [01:53:51] <SirCavalier> We generally smoke out bullshitters [01:53:52] <Cade> ^_^ [01:54:05] <JorrelFraajic> Some take longer than others :P [01:54:15] <SirCavalier> And heaven help any regular user who tries to make up stuff :P [01:54:26] <Toprawa> Their penalty shall be swift and just. [01:54:38] <JorrelFraajic> This is really only something that will ever see the light of day on the nom pages anyway [01:54:41] <Darth_Culator> And horrible. But that goes without saying. [01:54:53] <Toprawa> Ok, let's vote, then [01:54:57] <Toprawa> ~open [01:54:57] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [01:54:58] <JorrelFraajic> ~support [01:54:58] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [01:54:59] <Richterbelmont10> ~support [01:55:00] <PurpleTentacle> Richterbelmont10: Support vote counted. [01:55:02] <Darth_Culator> ~support [01:55:02] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [01:55:03] ~support [01:55:03] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [01:55:03] <Toprawa> ~support [01:55:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [01:55:03] <Cade> ~support [01:55:04] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [01:55:05] <SirCavalier> ~support [01:55:06] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [01:55:07] ~support [01:55:07] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [01:55:08] <MasterJonathan> ~support [01:55:08] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [01:55:10] <Brandon_Rhea> ~support [01:55:10] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Support vote counted. [01:55:20] <CorellianPremier> ~support [01:55:20] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Support vote counted. [01:55:26] <IFYLOFD> ~support [01:55:26] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [01:55:34] <Toprawa> Closing in 5 [01:55:41] <Toprawa> ~close [01:55:42] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [01:55:43] <Toprawa> ~tally [01:55:43] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 12 [01:55:46] <Toprawa> Motion passes. [01:55:50] <Toprawa> Last one goes to Culator. [01:55:53] <Toprawa> Then we're done [01:55:55] the much anticipated Culator item [01:55:56] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [01:55:59] <Darth_Culator> Super. [01:56:44] *drumroll* [01:56:49] <Darth_Culator> This is pretty simple, but I anticipated that there might be some resistance. It comes in two parts, which I think mostly speak for themselves. [01:57:08] <Darth_Culator> Part one, I have already posted for your perusal. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Darth_Culator/TEHMORFFRENCE [01:57:56] <Darth_Culator> It places in clearer terms some principles we have all lived by for the entire existence of the site. [01:58:38] <Darth_Culator> I'll open that for discussion and voting and then move on to the second half. [01:58:40] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [01:58:54] looks pretty straight forward [01:59:00] seems pretty harmless [01:59:03] <SirCavalier> Simple. clear. Bascically what we've been doing for years [01:59:05] <Brandon_Rhea> It's just adding an existing stance into another policy. Fair enough. [01:59:06] though "Failure to do so will result in immediate removal of all special user rights and privileges." should really be "Failure to do so is grounds for an immediate RFRA.", unilateral BC action is not OK on something potentially subjective [01:59:12] <Cade> ^ [01:59:14] <JorrelFraajic> ^ [01:59:16] the community always decides [01:59:17] <MasterJonathan> Per grunny [01:59:18] <SirCavalier> Per grunny [01:59:19] <Toprawa> Yeah, per grunny [01:59:23] <Toprawa> Just to keep it nice and legal. :P [01:59:30] <MasterJonathan> Otherwise seems reasonable. [01:59:32] <Toprawa> I imagine the RFRA would be a formality :P [01:59:43] <JorrelFraajic> Do we do RFRAs for banned users? [01:59:50] <Toprawa> Sort of [01:59:54] <Toprawa> Though the admin can unban themselves [02:00:01] they shouldn't though [02:00:03] <Toprawa> That's what happened with Kuralyov [02:00:10] <JorrelFraajic> OH I forgot about that. [02:00:16] that would break admin autonomy [02:00:19] <Toprawa> ^ [02:00:26] <Toprawa> Which also contributed to his RFRA :P [02:00:27] which enough is grounds for an RFRA itself :P [02:00:30] <Toprawa> XD [02:00:30] heh [02:00:37] <SirCavalier> Wheels within wheels [02:00:50] <Toprawa> Are you good with the proposed modification, Culator? [02:01:00] <Darth_Culator> Fair enough. One moment while I amend. [02:01:31] * MasterFred (~textual@wookieepedia/Master-Fredcerique) has joined [02:01:31] * ChanServ gives voice to MasterFred [02:01:33] * Nuku-Nuku gives voice to MasterFred [02:01:37] * MasterJonathan removes voice from MasterFred [02:02:20] <Darth_Culator> There we are, adjusted. http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User%3ADarth_Culator%2FTEHMORFFRENCE&diff=5084633&oldid=5084632 [02:03:00] <Richterbelmont10> does any of this actually stop Wikia from doing what they want? [02:03:11] <Toprawa> Not technically [02:03:12] <MasterJonathan> Unfortunately, no. [02:03:15] <Toprawa> We can't ban Staff members [02:03:24] <Toprawa> It's more of a symbolic thing [02:03:28] <Richterbelmont10> ah [02:03:34] <SirCavalier> Territorial marking [02:03:42] <Toprawa> Ok, we good? [02:03:46] <Toprawa> Opening voting [02:03:49] <Toprawa> ~open [02:03:50] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [02:03:52] ~support [02:03:52] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Support vote counted. [02:03:58] <Toprawa> ~support [02:03:59] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support vote counted. [02:03:59] <MasterJonathan> ~support [02:03:59] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Support vote counted. [02:04:04] ~support [02:04:04] <Zuko> ~support [02:04:04] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Support vote counted. [02:04:04] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Support vote counted. [02:04:08] <SirCavalier> ~support [02:04:09] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Support vote counted. [02:04:16] <IFYLOFD> ~support [02:04:16] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Support vote counted. [02:04:29] <Cade> ~support [02:04:30] <JorrelFraajic> ~support [02:04:30] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Support vote counted. [02:04:30] <PurpleTentacle> JorrelFraajic: Support vote counted. [02:04:44] <Toprawa> Closing in 5 [02:04:47] <Darth_Culator> ~support [02:04:48] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [02:04:50] <Darth_Culator> Duh. [02:04:58] <Toprawa> ~close [02:04:58] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [02:04:59] <Toprawa> ~tally [02:05:00] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 10 [02:05:03] <Toprawa> Motion passes. [02:05:13] <IFYLOFD> You said you had a... second part? [02:05:17] <Darth_Culator> Now, the second part. [02:05:22] * ecks sets mode +m on #wookieepedia [02:07:00] <Darth_Culator> As we have members of Wikia staff who are also users on the site, who are current administrators and we may concievably add more such admins in the future, the second part that I have just added to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Darth_Culator/TEHMORFFRENCE is intended to address conflicts of interest. [02:07:50] <Darth_Culator> Essentially, Wookieepedia policy takes precedence over Wikia policy when you're on Wookieepedia, no matter who you are. [02:08:09] <Toprawa> I'm ok with this, but I should point out that no one wants to commit suicide. [02:08:20] wouldn't it be easier to just say Wookieepedia admins who are also staff can not take staff actions on Wookieepedia? Or something [02:08:25] <Toprawa> Like when whoever that was stepped in and unilaterally changed our upload page. [02:08:35] (or say that in addition) [02:08:40] <Toprawa> ecks advised me not to revert them back, lest I be de-sysopped [02:08:58] <SirCavalier> I should point out that this would presumably not stand in cases of ToU violitions [02:09:01] * ecks sets mode -m on #wookieepedia [02:09:04] <Brandon_Rhea> No. That's unenforceable. Wikia's Terms of Use trump any and all local policy, on any community on Wikia. If you violate the Terms of Use, you are subject to reprimend. A better proposal would be "Don't use abuse filter to silence criticism, and don't use revision delete to hide your very public mistakes" - since this is clearly based on how I warned you about your abuse of admin rights in... [02:09:06] <Brandon_Rhea> ...April. I sympathize, and by no means does anyone intend to override a community decision, but if it happens then it happens. You're creating a policy you know can't be followed just so you can say "SEE?!?!?1 Wikia doesn't care about us." [02:09:21] <Darth_Culator> That's exactly what I'm doing. [02:09:30] <Darth_Culator> And you can bite me. [02:09:43] <Brandon_Rhea> Then it's a pointless policy. Don't create something you know can't be enforced, just out of spite. [02:09:46] <MasterJonathan> Give me a minute to pop a bag of popcorn. [02:10:30] <Brandon_Rhea> You're setting people up on a kamikaze run. If Wikia has to step in for a TOU violation, and someone undoes whatever Wikia did, you're telling them "violate the Terms of Use and get yourself into trouble." [02:10:40] <Brandon_Rhea> I get you have issues with Wikia. Fair enough. But this is just a waste of time. [02:11:04] * MasterFred has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ€¦) [02:11:19] <Darth_Culator> So what you're saying is that Wikia will eventually have to fight with us, and you're on Wikia [02:11:23] <Darth_Culator> 's side, not ours. [02:11:54] <Brandon_Rhea> I'm saying don't create a policy that can't be enforced, especially one where you're encouraging people to violate the Terms of Use. [02:12:08] <Brandon_Rhea> If you can only see that in terms of us vs them, then I can't help that. [02:12:10] <Cade> I don't see how that's encouraging TOU violations [02:12:12] <Darth_Culator> And I'm saying you've never really been a Wookieepedian. [02:12:23] <Zuko> mabye not as simple as that [02:12:25] <Darth_Culator> You're in it for Wikia, not for us. [02:12:29] <Zuko> culator [02:12:51] <MasterJonathan> Culator, I think you have good intention, but this is a step too far IMO. [02:12:54] <Brandon_Rhea> I think actively contributing is making me a Wookieepedian. I'm not editing for Wikia's benefit, I'm editing to contribute to Wookieepedia. But I can also tell you as a Wikia staff member, that this is an unenforcable policy. And you know that. [02:12:55] <MasterJonathan> intentions* [02:13:36] <Brandon_Rhea> Cade - if we have to step in for a TOU violation, like say we had to remove a TOU violating code or something. If someone added that back in, using the tools at their disposal as Culator wants, that's a TOU violation. Because you're re-adding the TOU violation. [02:13:41] <Brandon_Rhea> (we as in Wikia staff) [02:14:20] <Brandon_Rhea> It's time to strap on your big boy pants and realize that, whether you like it or not, there are policies on Wikia that aren't always going to align with what you want 100% of the time. [02:14:41] <Darth_Culator> Wikia's terms of use are and always have been bullshit. If you respect our site, your terms of use yould let us customize things so they don't suck. [02:14:57] <Brandon_Rhea> Irrelevant. They are what they are, and by editing on Wikia, you agree to follow them. [02:15:46] <Darth_Culator> And since you supported the first proposal, including the site feature policy, you're effectively being a hypocrite. We never voted on your garbage uploader. [02:15:50] <Brandon_Rhea> You're setting admins and users up to get in trouble out of spite. That is wrong. [02:15:55] <Brandon_Rhea> I didn't support the first one. Notice I never voted. [02:16:02] <Brandon_Rhea> I said fair enough. [02:16:11] <Darth_Culator> Ah. So you're really NOT a Wookieepedian. [02:16:30] uh, guys [02:16:34] this isn't going anywhere right now [02:16:36] <Brandon_Rhea> I don't give a shit what you want to label me as. I enjoy editing here, despite what you may think of me. If you're going to label me one way or another, I'm fine with that. [02:16:48] <Toprawa> All right. [02:16:50] let's bring it down a notch [02:17:02] <Toprawa> May I make a suggested amendment to the policy? [02:17:31] <Darth_Culator> Why bother? People are going to be pussies anyway. [02:17:38] <MasterJonathan> What we really need to do is hire a team of ninjas to infiltrate Wikia HQ, steal a copy of the database, and then talk Lucasfilm into issuing Wikia a DMCA takedown notice for the entire wiki and hosting Wookieepedia themselves. :P [02:17:51] <Zuko> :D [02:17:53] <Brandon_Rhea> XD [02:17:55] <Toprawa> Well, I do agree the policy is impractical, as it's telling admins to actively violate ToU and therefore jeopardize their user rights. [02:18:07] <Toprawa> I would suggest amending that part. [02:18:14] <Darth_Culator> No, that's the whole point. [02:18:16] grunny probably has backend access, doesn't he? [02:18:23] *hint hint nudge* [02:18:38] <IFYLOFD> Yeah, I ain't committing suicide for this [02:18:39] <Darth_Culator> Grunny wouldn't do anything against sugar daddy Wikia. [02:18:49] <Brandon_Rhea> If that's the whole point then I encourage you to oppose. The rest of what Culator has written is in other policies anyway, since it's "We hope Wikia will respect this and that" [02:18:50] <Darth_Culator> He's part of the problem. [02:18:55] on Wookieepedia I'm not staff, plain and simple, I'm just a user/admin [02:19:03] <Brandon_Rhea> (*encourage you, as in encourage everyone) [02:19:08] I don't do anything staff-related, and won't [02:19:43] <Zuko> Culator [02:19:54] <Darth_Culator> WHAT [02:20:07] <Cade> Alright, let's vote on this. [02:20:16] <Zuko> nnothing [02:20:55] <Toprawa> We're opening voting as procedure. [02:20:58] <Toprawa> ~open [02:20:58] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is open. [02:21:00] <MasterJonathan> ~oppose [02:21:01] <PurpleTentacle> MasterJonathan: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:02] <Brandon_Rhea> ~oppose Pointless, unenforceable, and kamikaze policy created (as admitted by its proposer) basically out of spite and to make a point. [02:21:02] <IFYLOFD> ~oppose [02:21:02] <PurpleTentacle> Brandon_Rhea: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:02] <PurpleTentacle> IFYLOFD: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:03] <Darth_Culator> ~support [02:21:03] <PurpleTentacle> Darth_Culator: Support vote counted. [02:21:08] <CorellianPremier> ~oppose [02:21:09] <PurpleTentacle> CorellianPremier: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:10] <SirCavalier> ~oppose [02:21:11] <PurpleTentacle> SirCavalier: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:11] <Zuko> ~oppose [02:21:11] <PurpleTentacle> Zuko: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:18] ~oppose [02:21:19] <PurpleTentacle> ecks: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:30] ~oppose [02:21:30] <PurpleTentacle> exiledjedi: Oppose vote counted. [02:21:39] <Cade> ~oppose [02:21:40] <PurpleTentacle> Cade: Oppose vote counted. [02:22:00] <Toprawa> ~close [02:22:00] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Voting is closed. [02:22:02] <Toprawa> ~tally [02:22:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Oppose: 9 [02:22:03] <PurpleTentacle> Toprawa: Support: 1 [02:22:06] <Toprawa> Motion is rejected. [02:22:14] <Toprawa> Mofference is concluded. [02:22:16] <Toprawa> Goodnight.