Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Saul Karath


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Saul Karath

 * Nominated by: Jedi Kasra (talk) 12:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: Perhaps I should have called the successive noms of Bandon, Malak, Nord, and now Karath, "Project: Bad Guys of KotOR". Guess now is better than never, hence here is Part 4 of the project, Saul Karath. Let 'em rip.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 12:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

(0 Inqs/1 Users/1 Total)
Support
 * 1) My first supported FAN! Good work, Kasra. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 13:55, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Looking at the length of the intro compared to the article, I can say without checking the content that the intro is much too long.  Graestan ( Talk ) 17:36, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) *I shortened it a little, see what you think. I understood the shortening of the Nord and Bandon intros, but I think Karath has enough background to justify three paragraphs.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) You asked for a review. Please note that I did not look too much at the KOTOR game sections, as I'm not done the game.  My focus was on the comics section. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 19:14, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) * Some work to be done in the Vindication section. Some of the facts in the last paragraph aren't quite right.  Haazen didn't slice the Vanjervalis Chain, he always had control since he owned the companies.  His command of the ships came from the Gauntlet of Kressh the Younger, not from his cybernetics.
 * 5) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:49, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * 6) * A few terminology issues, mostly in the Vindication section. He was given command of Swiftsure, not commissioned it.  And the Veltraa wasn't a flagship.
 * 7) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:49, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * 8) * Because of the revelations in Demon #1, you should review the Adasca Affair section's references to Rohlan.
 * 9) **Try it now.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:49, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * 10) * I may not be understanding this correctly, but I was taught that every fact needed a reference, and that multiple facts coming from the same source needed multiple references. I could be wrong on this though.  If I'm right, then a lot of refs need to be added, especially in the Early Life section.
 * 11) **For multiple facts coming from the same reference, only one is needed at the end of the passage. It's rather unsightly and unbecoming to cite five sentences in a row to the same source.  CC7567  (talk) 19:19, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * 12) ***There you go. Thank you, CC. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 20:55, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * 13) * The article may benefit from a Spoiler tag, especially since now there's a Demagol reference in there and he will be appearing in other issues of Demon. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 14:40, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * 14) **Added.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 14:05, November 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 15) **Thanks for the review, Taral.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:49, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * 16) Floyd:
 * 17) *Intro: A little context on the Adasca affair.
 * 18) **Done.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 19) * "Malak ordered Karath to destroy the planet Telos IV." This sentence just sticks out in the paragraph and kinda messes up the flow. Either merge it with another sentence, or expand it a little by telling why Malak would order Karath to do such a thing.
 * 20) **Please try it--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 21) * "For every success Karath gained, a setback followed." Such as...?
 * 22) **This was in the KotOR CG, nothing is said explicitly as to what this was.--Jedi Kasra (comlink)
 * 23) * "When Karath was promoted to the Inexpugnable-class tactical command ship Courageous, he invited Onasi to serve with him aboard the warship, bestowing the nickname "Fleet" on the pilot." Any particular reason he gave Carth this nickname?
 * 24) **This was in the 14th issue, and there has been no explanation as to why this particular name was given.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 25) * In Battle of Vanquo, give some context on the outbreak of the Mandalorian Wars.
 * 26) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 27) * If I recall correctly, the Little Bivoli was not a restaurant.
 * 28) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 29) * "Karath told Carrick that while he could not turn Carrick in to the custody of his former Jedi Master Lucien Draay," Why not? Clarify.
 * 30) *Context on Adascorp.
 * 31) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 20:19, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 32) * Context on Adasca's "scheming". You mention it in the second paragraph of The Adasca affair before you actually explain what he's scheming about.
 * 33) **Since I removed the part where Jarael attempts to inform Carrick of this, this is taken care of as well, I believe.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 34) * "As Carrick was disembarking the Deadweight with Onasi and Morvis, Jarael, the female Arkanian offshoot who helped Carrick elude the Jedi Masters on Taris, noticed Carrick and kissed him. In actuality, Jarael was attempting to tell Carrick about Adasca's scheming." Eh? How does this work?
 * 35) **What Jarael is trying to do isn't relevant to Karath, so I removed the second sentence.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 36) *"Karath asked Adasca what exactly he wanted; when the Mandalorians arrived, Karath told Adasca that he had gone too far. " What? When did Mandalorians become involved in this? You need to clarify what is going on here.
 * 37) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 38) * The third paragraph of The Adasca affair starts off way too abruptly, as Mandalore the Ultimate had not even been mentioned as being there. I think that the fact that Mandalore himself was personally commanding the Mandalorians in the Adasca affair is worthy of note in the previous paragraph.
 * 39) **Added.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 40) *I don't really think the fact that Rohlan Dyre is Demagol is really pertinent.
 * 41) **I'll remove for now, but since Karath is part of the 49th issue, I might have to add it in again.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 42) * Context on the Jedi Covenant.
 * 43) **Added.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 44) * "Onasi let Carrick escape," Why would Onasi disobey a direct order? Clarify.
 * 45) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 46) *Context on the Swiftsure.
 * 47) **Added.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 48) * Context on the defense of Coruscant and the Jedi Covenant's actions; mention of these is given in the first paragraph of "Vindication" but with no explanation.
 * 49) **The context is there, reworded it a little. Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 50) *In some cases, you capitalize the Vanjervalis Chain, but in other cases its written as the Vanjervalis chain. Which is it?
 * 51) **The first one.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 52) *"After the Mandalorian's final defeat at Malachor V, Karath was not among the Republic forces who followed Revan and Malak into the Unknown Regions to search for an ancient Rakatan space station called the Star Forge." If I recall correctly, they did not say they were looking for the Star Forge; the told the galaxy they were hunting down the remains of the Mandalorian fleet.
 * 53) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 54) * The second paragraph of "Jedi Civil War" could definitely be expanded, with more info on the events mentioned.
 * 55) **Except that's pretty much all the info there. I added a little more info, but I don't see how I could expand on this when there's no new info avaliable.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 56) * I think that Bastila's importance to the Republic warrants a mention.
 * 57) **Done, in the BoT section.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 58) * "However, Malak reminded Karath what happened to his predecessor" Well, what did happen do his predecessor? Clarify.
 * 59) **Not stated explicitly. It's implied that Malak killed him, but without any actual proof, we just don't know.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 60) * "Sometime before Revan located that Star Map, Malak attacked the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine." What was his reason for doing this? Clarify.
 * 61) **To my knowledge, no source says why Malak attacked Dantooine, just that he did. What he did while there is irrelevant to Karath's history.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 62) * The image of Karath torturing Bastila, Revan, and Carth should not be in the Battle of Taris section, as those events are not recounted in that section. Replace it with something more pertinent, possibly of when Malak orders Karath to destroy Taris.
 * 63) **Please try the image arrangement.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 17:40, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * 64) *That's all. I'm not gonna lie, Kasra; I'm kinda disappointed. You're a good writer, you can do better.  IFYLOFD  ( Floyd's crib ) 03:06, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * 65) Nayayen has yet to think of some name for his reviews
 * 66) * In the intro, is there a reason that "affair" is not capitalized for Adasca but is for Vindication?
 * 67) **Taken care of.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 68) * "After Malak betrayed Revan during the Jedi and Republic's attempt to capture them, Karath continued to serve the Sith forces under the new Dark Lord's command." Which of them is the new Dark Lord? Please clarify that Revan was captured, hence making it Malak.
 * 69) **Clarified.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 70) * The Little Bivoli didn't change to being a restaurant on Serroco, it was already configured like that beforehand.
 * 71) **I took out the dashes and inserted an "and" in between carrier and restaurant.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 72) * The conversation between Carrick and Onasi here reveals some things about Karath that should go in the P&T; mainly the line about Karath being unlikely to run a defense like on Serroco.
 * 73) **I added something along this line at the end of the 1st paragraph of the P&T. Is this what you're looking for?--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 74) ***Sort of. My understanding of what Onasi said was that Karath wouldn't set up a defense that potentially endangered civilians, as Serroco did ("Aren't you guys setting up awfully close to the cities?"), rather than from a tactical, military point of view.  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  16:57, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 75) ****I think I know what you're getting at. Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 19:17, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 76) * Why did Carrick cry when the bombs hit? Or rather, for whom?
 * 77) **Please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 78) ***"As Carrick wept over the planet's destruction deaths on the Courageous bridge..." Hold on, I don't know what you're trying to say here...  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  16:57, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 79) ****Can't believe I missed the "deaths". Omitted.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 19:17, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 80) * "However, Malak reminded Karath what happened to his predecessor..." What did happen to his predecessor?
 * 81) **Floyd also asks this in his objections above. While it's implied ingame that Malak killed, I don't believe we can say for sure that Malak killed this dude. For all we know, Malak tortured him severly, cut off a limb ot two, and demoted him to private. We just don't know, which is why it's worded like it is.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 82) * "However, Nord was killed on the desert world Tatooine by Revan, now a retrained Jedi searching for the Star Forge, which was now under Malak's control." Can you reword this so that it doesn't sound as if Revan was now under Malak's control?
 * 83) **Reworded it a little, please try it.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 84) * At the end of the P&T, a sentence ends and another starts with "during his service". Please alter one of these.
 * 85) **Done.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 86) *Like with Malak, I'll wait until the TOR timelines and the last two issues of Demon are out before supporting. Not bad otherwise.  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  12:02, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 87) **Thanks for your review, Nayayen.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 15:55, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Comments
 * I'm waiting for the results of this, then the article will have a few more links, such as a link to Nord's ambush of Revan, and such. Also, full credit goes to Nayayen for uploading these three images. Finally, this article will be updated as new info, such as from the comics, is released.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I will of course add new information from the upcoming Demon story arc.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 22:15, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Floyd, I'll take care of your objections within the next few days.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 06:00, December 27, 2009 (UTC)