Talk:Revan/Legends

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Jar'Kai Concept Art
Sorry for being a bother. Is there any source that proves that the picture of Revan wielding two lightsabers is concept art? I was almost *certain* that I'd come across it before as fanart on another website, though I might be imagining things. Cheers.(Ulicus 15:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC))

- I can vouch for that as I saw that picture at fanart site. KOTORfanMedia.com or something like that. Incedently I should be probably register...

End scenes of Forces of Corruption (SPOILERS)
On the Petroglyph Fan Forums, someone posted several screens from the end scenes of the historical campaign in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption. Now this contains some spoilers, so read on on your own incentive:

Apparently, Silri (Tyber Zann's henchman) uses a Sith Holocron (stolen by Zann from Jabba before the game even begins) to summon a map, showing the location of what appears to be Revan's final resting place. She goes there and there's thousands of Sith troopers encased in carbonite, with what appears to be a statue of Revan in the middle of the hall. Anyone with the game able to elaborate what's going on? :P VT-16 16:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ooooh... --Imp 17:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed VT-16 18:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Can we be sure it's Revan? =) --Imp 18:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The players there appear to think so. At least the person has Sith troopers lined up like Terracotta soldiers.
 * EDIT: Appears someone on TFN has played the game and said there's nothing to indicate it's Revan. Apparently, the place is one of the Emperor's storehouses. VT-16 18:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Would this not indicate that, ultimately, Revan's life ended as a darksider? Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 19:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really. --Imp 19:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * (1) Those look nothing like Sith troopers and (2) that's a statue of someone wearing hooded robes with a sword, which means it could be absolutely anyone. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed that actually, it honestl could be anyone. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 14:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you look at the helmet it does look like the Sith Troopers. But it could be another Sith Lord who knows.Shifter 10:27, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, wasn't TESB when they first started testing carbonite on humans. Now, let's assume that it is Revan's tomb. One, does that mean even after sending the Star Forge sky high he rejoined the Sith, as Sith soldiers are standing there like in that one Chinese Emperor's tomb (I have no idea which one but it was one of the first one)? And second, (going back to the first sentence) if they were doing this in the 3950's-3940's, then why the heck would Darth Vader and the boys be experimenting with the EXACT SAME SUBSTANCE way in the future???? Now, I know, Star Wars history can be as inconsistent as the Carolina Panthers, but still... Oh and BTW, I hope Revan doesn't make a mortal appearance in the GCW era. HK-47 is one thing, being a well-maintained droid and all, but a human being some 4000 years later? Totally different story. Now, seeing a descendant of Revan of would be cool, however, but not a mortal Revan himself. (I was going to rant a little more but I'll shut up now...) DAWUSS 02:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The big thing in ESB was that Han survived the process and could be reawakened. If I remember correctly, Lord Keto was frozen in carbonite just before the Sith Wars, so that in itself is not new. Charlii 11:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

A grey jedi?
Would anyone clasify Revan as a grey jedi? Just something to think about?

Master Nikolce 04:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, a grey Jedi is classified as a Jedi who is no longer part of the Order, but hasn't fallen to the dark side. I don't think this term would apply to Revan, since he most definatly fell to the dark side first, and then returned to the Order later. Master Kavar 06:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think of him as a Grey Jedi after the events of KOTOR 1, where he left to the Unknown Regions. Besides, he would probably get kicked out of the Jedi if/when the council found out about him and Bastila. MPK 13:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Revan wore Qel-Droma's Robes?
Right now, the article dealing with Revan's robes states at the end: ''Although the light side ending was canon, whether Revan obtained the different style "Star Forge Robe" remains unknown. If Duron Qel-Droma's vision was accurate, then Revan wore the Qel-Droma Robe that were lost on Korriban after the death of Duron. However according to the vision, Revan would still wear his hallmark, the impressive mask.'' Now I've studied that picture pretty closely, and I have to say that isn't Qel-Droma's robes, they're Revan's original robe, complete with cloak and helmet. Where did this idea of Qel-Droma's robes come from? Master Kavar 07:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC) Actually, with my modded game I can get everything to work out perfectly with Shadows and Light :P (Ulicus 01:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
 * Shadows and Light. It says that Revan will wear the Quel Droma robes. By the appearance of the robe, it looks like Revan will wear his helmet, the Quel-Droma  robe (looks more like a cloak). But it's possible that he could be wearing the Star Forge robes under it. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 07:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm...I still can't see it, it just looks like Revan's regular robes and cloak to me. But if that's what it actually says in Shadows and Light that's good enough for me. Master Kavar 07:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's just a case of seperating the GAME appearance from the actual appearance. The Qel-Droma robes were, more or less, just a cloak with a hood in reality, whilst in the game they were the same as all the other Jedi robes. Whilst game mechanics prevent Revan from wearing the Star Forge robes AND the Qel-Droma robes, there's nothing stopping him canonically from having done both. The mask he's wearing clearly isn't his "Sith" mask either, as it's got the "T-visor", which the mask he's most associated with lacks. (Ulicus 17:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC))
 * I still call it "book mechanics". The comic illustration lacked the ability to let the reader select his/her favourite version of Revan, so it chose to keep the mask in its interpretation of his confrontation with Malak. Forget that it is impossible for that to have happened in the game, and forget that the game is the only reason anyone cares about Revan. -BaronGrackle 17:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably not necessary. I've discovered in the original X-Box KOTOR, it is possible without glitching to get the Light Side ending as a Dark Side character, which therefore means getting the canon ending WITH Darth Revan's robe as typically depicted. (It involves making all Dark Side choices except for the ONE comment that decides the ending, then proceeding Dark Side until the robe is aquired). (~ SotiCoto)
 * Ah, but no mask. Not the right mask, anyway. -BaronGrackle 15:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * As I recall, the hood is drawn back on Revan's Robe too. Given that, its entirely possible that the mask is stored away inside the robe and simply not worn. As such, it would simply be a matter of game mechanics that it was unable to be worn during the final battle when perhaps it should have been. . . As it stands though, when the game was made, the mask was intended simply to hide the "identity" of Revan during the cutscenes, but since then it has essentially BECOME Revan's identity (as while the body and face under the mask is variable, the outward appearance with the mask is not). Its purpose has become inverted, thus its no surprise that it would be unseen at the end of the game but used to represent Revan in other media. As such, given what is supposed to have happened to Revan after the end events of KotOR, and given that scene depicted standing over Malak, I consider Revan's Light Side ending (standard) AS a Dark Side character (thus enabling him to wear his robe for the last battle) to be most canon (i.e. I certainly wouldn't put it past Revan to pretend redemption in order to better achieve own goals, and it would be entirely possible given that he/she managed to fool the masters on Dantooine earlier in the game).  (~ SotiCoto)

Exile Meets Revan?
Why is there a tag for Exile Meets Revan by the Mandalorian Wars section? Does it belong there, and if it's fanon and doesn't then why is it still there? --Veneficus 18:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe it's gone now. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 19:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Talents
I expanded the section on Swoop racing into a full on talents section. It could probably use some work but the basics are pretty much mapped out.(Ulicus 02:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
 * Any mistakes spotted are down to it being 3am here. Now I'm going to sleep. Later guys. (Ulicus 03:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
 * Looks good to me, makes a nice improvement. The only thing I would add is that while Revan couldn't understand the Rakatan Droid on Dantooine, he can easily understand any real Rakatan speech. I would guess that Revan can read the speakers meaning through the Force rather than the words, the reason why he couldn't do the same with the Sand People is because their extreme xenophobia purposefully hides their thoughts from Revan. Master Kavar 03:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Great section! Just one thing:

"What can I say? I’m a talented individual."

- Revan (possibly)

I know it sais possibly, but this is conjectural, nonetheless. Isn't their another quote we could use? - Yoshi626 04:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

There should be a talents section of his force powers and lightsaber combat here are some of revens powers
 * thought bomb
 * force fire
 * caneliing poison
 * force drain
 * force lighting
 * Drain Knowledge
 * battle precognition
 * Force bonding

I think revan was a jedi Consular being that Form VI or Niman is popular with consular and his interest in sith magic 74.129.45.167 05:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)Tonyman1989
 * A section for Revan's force powers is a good idea, but Revan didn't know the thought-bomb, and I'm pretty sure Revan couldn't just create Force bonds spontaniously like the Exile. Hope you don't mind, I edited your post so that the Force powers were in list form. Yoshi - I think the quote listed is fine, it matches with the cocky personality that Bioware writers gave him. Master Kavar 05:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

thank you but from reading Darth Bane Path of Destruction that he learned it from revan and is there any powers that i missed that we know revan had? 74.129.45.167 05:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989

And Mical talked about revans study on force bonds. 74.129.45.167 05:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * Could you cite that for me, an exact quote from the book or something? It sounds believable enough, but I'd like to make sure. Master Kavar 06:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

-on page 229 it talks about the powerful rituals from revans helocron and since the thought bomb is a ritural it is morew then likly on there

-page 281 they talk about the force storm he said he leaned from revan and said it is simlar to the thought bomb but weaker.

- he also so sends the info on the thought bomb to kaan form lehon on the same kind of paper he was writing the info from revans helocron on right after learning everything on the holocron

So it never says he leanrned it from Revan in words but it is very big give in.74.129.45.167 07:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)tonyman1989

With the Force bonds and comparison to the Exile, Kavar, I've just put it in because it is speculated often during KotOR 2 that Revan was using such a technique. I mean, the fact that he goes in depth into studying Force bonds *just* before he leads a massive faction of the jedi to war seems kinda fishy to me and it is commented on by K2 characters. It's not the same thing as the Exile is doing in KotOR 2 - where she is actively 'hearing the Force' through her companions, and ciphoning the power of those she kills - it's just the "influence" bit that they might share. Oh, and Kavar, those were some good ideas on why Revan can't understand the rakatan speech from the droid... but he has no problem understanding the selkath droid language from the machine..

@ Yoshi, yeah, I'm aware the opening quote is conjectural, which is why I had "possibly" there. I liked it purely because it directly mentioned talents and most other quotes deal with Revan's force senstitivity exclusively. If it continues to be a problem for a lot of people however, I'm sure that there's another quote we can use.

@ With Revan's "force powers", I am very reluctant to give off a "list" as it comes across looking silly. Instead, would it not be better to have a new subsection in the talents box called "Thirst for Knowledge" or whathaveyou, explaining Revan's drive to learn more about the Force constantly? We could talk about the Sith rituals that Revan uncovered, such as the thought bomb, in this section. (Ulicus 11:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
 * I can see where you're coming from on the Force bond thing, but since even in K2 they only say Revan studied force bonds, it might be a better idea to just state that Revan was well versed on the subject and then draw parralels with his supposed natural charisma, leadership, and maybe his bond to Bastila. About that droid; I completly forgot that Revan could understand the Selkath language spoken by the droid, so that blows my theory out of the water. But it's strange that Revan couldn't understand the Rakatan spoken by the droid, but can understand the Rakatan trapped in the obelisk, and that can take place before the revelation scene. The droid spoke a different Rakatan dialect maybe? Master Kavar 17:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * All I have done is draw parallels on the Force bonding issue. I've not said "this is definitely what he was doing", just that it has been suggested that he was. It seems to have been heavily implied in KotoR 2 however, especially since Kreia all but tells us that Revan was doing the same thing as the Jedi Exile in terms of influence. As for the languages. Yeah, I thought at first that Revan had learnt a more "Modern" Rakatan, and therefore couldn't understand the "ancient" rakatan - but as you said, he could speak to the rakata in the obelisk and he was more than capable of communicating with the ancient rakatan computer inside the Temple of the Ancients. It's weird. (Ulicus 19:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
 * Regarding the matter of droids and languages, and how Revan could understand the Selkath droid, I suspect it is due to having considerably more experience dealing with the Selkath. If a Jedi can read the raw thoughts coming from a living being's mind for long enough WHILE also hearing them speak, it is safe to assume that they would become familiar with the language itself after a while. In turn therefore, Revan may well have learnt the Selkath language through overexposure, which could not be said of the Rakatan language (due to considerably less time spent among them). I can only assume that had he spent longer socialising with the Selkath, he would have learnt to understand their language itself and thence understood the droid. Alternatively, as part of his reprogramming by the Jedi, they may have given him back understanding of the Selkath language, but not done the same with the Rakatan language. Either way, I believe Revan could actually speak Selkath with or without the force. (~ SotiCoto)

-- For reference


 * Exile: I have noticed their behaviour changing. Atton especially.
 * Kreia: The fool dances in your shadow for your favor. The disciple... he worships you quietly. The alien obeys you. Even within the machines, there are echoes. Watch them carefully, see their patterns, and recognize the strength in it. Influence can be a weapon, one that you may need before your journey is done.
 * Exile: You have a point. I will reflect upon this.
 * Kreia: Good - and then act upon it. It is a powerful tool to motivate others. That was Revan’s way, I believe. It was a strength.
 * Exile: What do you mean?
 * Kreia: [Influence: Success] Have you never asked yourself how Revan took the Republic and Jedi beneath him, how he made them his?
 * Exile: (Any response)
 * Kreia: Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts... strong influence, indeed.

Revan manipulating his followers through the Force is pretty heavily implied there. (Ulicus 19:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)) Cocky indeed. Master Kavar 05:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Or that he had the gift of the gab. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 20:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ("it matches with the cocky personality that Bioware writers gave him." - Master Kavar) Could you show me an example of him being cocky? - Yoshi626 03:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we both know the real reason you've been watching me.
 * I would've harnessed that power sooner. - To Canderous
 * So Malak was the original meat bag? I like that.
 * You thought it was luck Calo? Let's go again!
 * You're Malak's apprentice? Can't say I'm impressed.
 * Is your lightsaber compensating for something Malak?
 * Yeah, you can play cocky, but that's only ONE of the "personalities" offered by BioWare. There's nothing to say that you have to play Revan as a cocky guy. Though I tend to. (Ulicus 11:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC))

Revan didn't creat HK-47, HK was created by Czerker Corp. according to NEGD New Essential Guide to Droids, and was simply given to Revan by them in their allinace, HK is a line of droids (hunter killer) why would Revan give his droid the name of an already established line and making him the 47th not the 1st. All kotor said was that Revan was his orignial master, and Revan knew how to operate on him.
 * HK stands for Hunter-Killer and has nothiong to do with who made the droid. HK was made by Revan, not given too him. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 19:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If the Essential Guide to Droids actually states that, it's probably nothing more than a mistake, probably because HK's profile on Bioware's site states that he was rumored to have been constructed by Czerka. After HK recovers his memories he says "Statement: Yes, master. You created me shortly after you and your apprentice began your war to conquer the galaxy.". Space Ball 01:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because HK says Revan "made" him doesn't necessarily mean Revan put him together from scratch using spare parts. Perhaps he implied that Revan gave him his personality, made him unique and otherwise customised him into a distinct individual rather than just another HK droid (which of course wouldn't negate his being the 47th build originally). Don't suppose for a moment that Revan tried and failed to build 46 other droids, do you?  (~ SotiCoto)

Revan in KOTOR #9
Going from KOTOR #10, the hooded Jedi that appeared before the Jedi Council in KOTOR issue 9 is actually the master of Squint. That would mean that it can't be Revan. Kuralyov 21:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why is that? A Jedi Knight can have a Padawan. Of course, if Alek turns out to be Malak, we will have a continuity problem&hellip; – 22:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? As far as the name is concerned, "Alek" could be to "Malak" what "Jim" is to "James". Likewise "Big Breakaway" of Malak and Revan hasn't occured yet, so Malak would is still allowed to be a padawan at this point. It's also not impossible for Revan to have been knighted and Malak to have switched masters and studied beneath him. Master hopping isn't unheard of in this era after all...(Ulicus 15:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC))
 * (see Image:MalakRecruiter.jpg) The Exile's vision on Korriban establishes that Malak was a great deal taller than Alek and that he already had tattoos on his head at that point in time (ie. when the Mandalorians invaded). Apart from that, Malak has brown eyes while Alek has light blue eyes. Lastly, every source refers to Revan and Malak as equals before they became Sith, but the mysterious hooded Jedi in the comics (who I think everyone knows is Revan) is known to be Alek's master. At first, I thought that Alek could be Malak, but it just isn't making sense&hellip; – 19:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, the only thoroughly convicing point (for me) is the issue of eye colour. I'm inclined to believe that the height thing is because of graphics - I don't think we're supposed to believe that every single person who's not a main character in the galaxy is the same height as a scout for instance (just as I don't believe we're meant to think that so many people are wearing the same face). The tattoos are a non-issue at this point, since that recruitment scene has yet to occur - Revan has yet to properly break away from the Jedi Council and it almost certainly seems to be set after that period.


 * Additionally, it's untrue to say that every source refers to Revan and Malak as equals before their Sith days. The Mandalorians, in almost every instance, talk purely about Revan. The Jedi Masters tell us that Revan was "always the leader, the more powerful of the pair" and that the call to war was Revan's, with Malak simply being the first to join (though they play up his role in the Republic victories more than the Mandalorians do). Atton speaks of Revan alone being the one who saved them, yada yada.


 * So, ultimately, I think that think Malak=Alek could be quite easily reconciled. It doesn't have to be the case of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.(Ulicus 22:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC))
 * I wouldn't be too surprised either and, in fact, I am rather hoping that he does turn out to be Malak. By the way, when I stated that "every source refers to Revan and Malak as equals", I was referring to Jedi rank, not power or notoriety. When the Jedi Masters talk about Revan and Malak's training, they almost always lump them together which would seem to imply that they were of equal status. A loading screen also states that Malak accepted his role as Revan's Sith apprentice only grudgingly, which doesn't seem to make very much sense if they had had such a relationship before. For reference, this is what Malak tells the Exile:"'Do not head the words of the Jedi Council. The Republic will fall if we do not act now. Already the Mandalorians have taken three systems along the Outer Rim. They will only grow stronger with time. Come stand with me. We will use our might to help the Republic in its time of need. Join Revan and I. Together, we will battle this menace.'"His statement, "Already the Mandalorians have taken three systems along the Outer Rim.", would seem to place the recruitment of the Exile very soon after the events of Flashpoint, Part 3.– 23:21, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough comments Sentry- your reasoning is sound. Though I'm usually a huge continuity nut and hate little inconsistances, I think that Alek=Malak has such good dramatic potential that I'm willing to let it slide. Regardless of "who he is", it now seems certain that Alek is destined to be a Sith, especially with the attention that JJM drew to the fact that he was wearing a red spacesuit. I'm also willing to let stuff like Revan being the "master" referred to so often slide if it makes for a better story. Actually, on that note, it seems that the current party line is that Revan *was* a Jedi Master (Path of Destruction refers to him as a "Redeemed Jedi Master" for example)... so maybe... ah, whatever. We'll see. I'm sure it'll be good whatever happens. (Ulicus 01:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Which means he time to get some tattoos. The comic seems to be going heavy on the forshadowing with the red suit and what he says about painting tattoos on their heads. But all this is really pointless speculation. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 00:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe there is already a reason why he can't be Malak. As stated on Alek's article: "Some fans theorize that Alek may be Revan or Malak. However, this is impossible as Revan led the Jedi into the Mandalorian Wars and Malak was the first to join his cause—Squint was just one of many that followed."-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 00:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that KotOR #9 is crying out that the cloaked Jedi in the council chamber is Revan. Just consider that it's just after the hooded guy leaves that master Vrook tells Lucien "If we're going to have a Jedi Council at all, then somebody, somewhere must do what it tells them!". I mean isn't that likely referring to Revan considering the background of the story? And additionally, all of a sudden, Lucien speaks of "revanchism", a possible word from which "Revan" stems. Consider also that Alek, the hooded guy's apprentice, is wearing a red spacesuit, much like the one in the covenant's dream. And Malak, Revan's apprentice is the one that destroys the council on Dantooine and puts the whole Jedi Order in peril. If you look past the fact that Malak is taller than Alek and the eye colour issue, it is VERY possible that those dudes are Revan and Malak.
 * Small note / query: Can't corruption from the Dark Side change eye-colour? I always tended to think of Malak as the more corrupt of the two. If not that then there is always the possibility of contact lenses or some sorta high-tech surgery we don't know about! For that matter, even height can be changed to some extent. I can't say for sure that Malak hasn't got platformed boots as I've never paid attention to his feet! =P (~ SotiCoto)

Revan's possible lightsaber...
Dear sir, creater of the "Revan" Wookiepedia article, I beleive that I have a possible answer for question about Revan's origanal lightsaber color, and why he has two lightsabers.

Perhaps it is because when he was part of the order, his lightsaber was a violet color, like Master Zez-Kai Ell's lightsaber. Once he had left the order, and became Lord Revan, he created a Sith lightsaber, but perhaps he never dropped his old lightsaber. Perhaps that is the idea that when the Jedi Exile sees Revan in her vision, she sees him with his two lightsabers, the one he had when he was a part of the Jedi Order, and his Sith lightsaber.

However, I am not sure at all if this is the case, but perhaps this is a possible answer...

(Contributed by Wookieepedia Member Marko14126)

Revan = male?
sorry to bother, but i'm pretty much positive that revan can be female, too, depending on which gender you choose to play... Revan may be "canonically" male, but the issue is still a bone of contention among the fan base (Just type in "Revan + gender" on a KOTOR fanboard and clear your schedule). There's also the matter that, despite the canon declaration, female Revan outnumbers her "brother" by a three-to-one margin in fanfiction and fanart. While Wookieepedia does give greater weight to the canon of SW, it also includes articles on other fanon concepts and controversial issues. Would it be permissible to add mention of this controversey, or would a separate article be more appropriate? - Allronix  I know just who to ask for help with that, gents. Cheers!
 * While you can choose Revan's gender in the game, Revan is canonically male. And Wookieepedia follows canon information. -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 01:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * And please don't start a "Exile = female?" topic in the Jedi Exile's talk page.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 03:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We can't really argue against what has been canonically decided, but since its essentially fantasy anyway, there is nothing to say we cannot imagine our own fanon "alternate timelines" that make more sense to us. I personally like to believe that the canon situation with both Revan and the Exile is backwards: that Revan was female (and Dark Side at that) and the Exile male... as that just makes more sense to me (mostly down to narrative causality: I picked the choices that seemed most entertaining, particularly for bittersweet tragedies for Carth and Kreia respectively. There is also the matter of Revan being more cunning and calculating while the Exile seemed brash and direct)... but I don't believe for an instant that my beliefs invalidate what has been decided by other people. (I am however slightly bugged that the person who wrote that Droid book just happened to like the idea of a female Exile more). (~ SotiCoto)
 * Do you mean create an article on the controversy, or on the female Revan? (I'm opposed to both, to be honest.) -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 03:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * An article on the controversey, mostly, with special attention paid to KOTOR fanfic and some of the gender-conditional features in the game. Honestly, the game itself seemed to lean female, since 75% of the largest dialogue tree, the second romance, and a third ending (you have to cheat a bit to get it, but it's there) were only present for female avatars. And if someone can present a better argument for a male Revan other than "Leland Chee said so, and therefore it's canon," great.
 * Well, there already is a significant section in BTS. And, like it or not, Leland Chee determines canon, and Revan is canonical male. Maybe an article covering all the gender controversies such as the Exile, Jaden Korr, and Revan could be made, but just an article on Revan's gender is not worthwhile. We at Wookieepedia document canon, not speculation. While the controversy exists, it's really not our problem except for people who try and mess up our articles. Any article made on the controversy would likely be very opinionated, which is the opposite of what we try and do here. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 15:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thought so. Frankly, male Exile played better as well. Brianna has a fuller backstory and better-defined character arc than Mical, going from the weakest and shunned one of her sisters to someone who can take pride and strength in herself. Atris's hostility takes on some interesting angles, too, and the sheer rancor she holds towards Exile makes a bit more sense. As a bonus, you get Kreia's creepiest line ever. Jaden Korr is probably the only one that truly favors neither.
 * I think our Sexes page is the best spot for that, and it already touches on it a bit. As for the Jaden situation... well, it's the "laziest" game difference, in that the only character change whatsoever between male and female is the voice. No difference at all between species. -BaronGrackle 20:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Honestly, the game itself seemed to lean female,[...]Frankly, male Exile played better as well. Both of these statements are opinion. Not fact. -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 06:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, it's speculation and opinion that Exile works better male. I'll grant that. The game's such a mess that it makes my head ache just trying to piece together the loose ends on the plot (not to mention rebooting my deck when the game's bugs crash it) no matter how it plays. As for the question about the controversey, Yoshi answered it adequately.
 * I agree with Atarumaster88. If an article has to be created on the controversy, it should be for every gender customizable character, not just Revan. -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 20:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone ever tried clicking on I do not wish to discuss Revan in KOTOR 2 and saw the results.
 * From the article: -- Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 08:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

If you have bastila as a party member, it only makes sence for Revan to be a male.
 * How so? Bastila is the female Revans party member also. I'm not argueing the damn canon (as much as I despise it) but what's your basis on that theory? -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 02:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Legendary Jedi Knight
Would it be fair to have Revan introduced as a "legendary Jedi Knight", ala Anakin Skywalker and Ben Kenobi? He and Malak were quite clearly the "Kenobi and Skywalker" of the day and I'm planning on doing the same for Malak's introduction. (Ulicus 19:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Legendary sounds kind of POV to me. --Imp 22:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but in that case, should it not be removed from Anakin and Obi's articles? (128.243.220.22 03:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC))
 * ^^^ = (Ulicus 03:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Isn't it IU POV?-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 23:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, Ulicus, it should be removed from those articles as well. --Imp 23:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Image
I guess I'll find one, then. Bredd13 02:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The image for the Mandalorian Wars is the image of Malak betraying Revan (in the Jedi Civil War). Anyone have another to fit it more acurately? In the meantime, I'll move this Image to another section. Bredd13 22:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

"Darth"
I posted a similar issue on the Darth Malak page (emphasis on Darth). This article (as you can see) is entitled "Revan", while Malak's article is entitled "Darth Malak". I suggest that that it be changed to "Malak", with a redirect for any search entry for 'Darth Malak'. Bredd13 02:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Revan died no longer "Darth". Malak died as a "Darth". Normally we go by how they were known when they died, with a few exceptions. --Sauron18 02:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said on the other page, Malak was "redeemed" in the end, realizing he had himself to blame for his actions. Bredd13 04:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought he died just realizing he was nothing compared to Revan.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 04:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Malak wasn't redeemed. he just died admitting his failure. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 11:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I can see that point; however, Malak was his given name, unlike Darth Bane which was an assumed name. Malak never took on an alias. Also, Darth Malak was commonly called "Malak" even as a Sith Lord. Others were always refered to "Lord" or "Darth", with the exception of Vader (although this matter has not been settled, and the Darth Vader article at this time does not exist).
 * I always figured that following the Light Side ending, that given the appropriate choices in the ending dialogue, that Malak did seem genuinely remorseful. Whether or not this indicates his having been redeemed though, I couldn't say for sure. Then again, I have my own few theories on Malak's psyche that won't be mentioned here. (~ SotiCoto)

Prodigal Knight and Hero Cycle
On another matter, I think Revan should be at mentioned as "the Prodigal Knight" at least somewhere in the article. I placed it at the beginning, where alternate names usually go, but someone deleted it. I can understand why, as it was only mentioned once, but the title should be mentioned somewhere, especially since (like Anakin Skywalker/ Darth Vader--whatever it turns out to be) Revan was written to be somewhat of a messiah character. The Skywalker article has a section called "Adherence to the Hero Cycle" that shows many biblical/mythical allusions to other great heroes (these qualities are what are considered to define a hero). If no one objects, I suggest adding a similar list for the Revan article (there are many on this list that he too can be associated with). Bredd13 22:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I reverted your changes for two reasons:


 * 1) "The Prodigal Knight" was not an alias Revan ever went by, it was a way in which Vandar summed up his departure the Jedi Order.
 * 2) The fanon "appeared to turn to the dark side of the Force" rubbish. Revan turned. You can argue about whether or not he "fell", but that is a semantic debate, nothing more. We used the terminology "turned" precisely to avoid it being questioned, as "fell" might have been.


 * As it happens, I don't think a reference to the phrase would be a bad idea, I just don't think it should be done within the main text or be alluded to as a "title" of Revan's. What I *would* do, is support the changing of the "Discovery of the Star Forge" subtitle to "The Prodigal Knight" (or just "Prodigal", or "Prodigal Knight"). That accurately sums up what Revan's doing at the time (leaving the Jedi Order properly), is a direct reference to his character and isn't really as boring as the current one...


 * As for the Hero Cycle/Monomyth thing... I'm against it. Those sections haven't been particularly well maintained on the other articles and they have far too many mistakes, so I'm not a fan of seeing them here.

(Ulicus 23:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC))
 * 1) A hero doesn't keep repeating the same step, so why Luke has about a million different events listed for each step is beyond me.
 * 2) What the steps represent has often been misunderstood, for example the "Belly of the Whale" (on Luke's page) is taken to mean his being placed inside the tauntaun. It is, in fact, his journey into the Death Star.


 * "Prodigal". I've been grating my teeth ever since I heard Tavion call Kyle Katarn a "Prodigal Jedi" (before KOTOR 1 came out). It bugs me because prodigal means spendthrift, as in the the Biblical parable character who blew all his money before returning home. It does *not* mean someone who leaves for a while and then comes back... at least, it doesn't mean that now; it probably will when enough people start misusing it like we have with "alternate" or "moot", and then they'll add another number to the definitions in the dictionary. Until then, I'd be against including it as a section title, even if Tavion and Vandar canonically throw it around incorrectly. -BaronGrackle 00:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Haha, fair enough - now you've brought that to my attention it's going to be one of the things that irritates me as well. Though you could argue that that's exactly what Vandar meant, Revan went off, recklessly wasted his talents on darkness and evil then came back into the Jedi fold where he, uh, put his talents to good use once more.(Ulicus 02:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Actually, prodigal is another form of the word Prodigy

Possible Soresu user?
I've been looking into Revan's lightsaber style and I have a good speculation. It seems like he is utilizing Soresu when he is confronted on his flagship. Here's a comparison between him and Obi-Wan, a utilizer of Soresu which proves my point.Darth Shadow3000 00:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)




 * It doesn't prove your point. For one, Revan's lightsaber is at head level, meaning that his legs could easily be taken out for beneath him. Obi-Wan's on the otherhand is in the centre of his body, meaning he has a higher defence-arc. It is possible that Revan knew some aspects of Soresu, but i doubt he trained in it especially. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 16:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I dont know about lightsaber forms, but that posture reminds me of palpatine. Could it be juyo? - 201.222.237.38 16:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler Warning
Could somebody at a spoiler warning for KOTOR to the top of this page? I'm newly registered so I can't edit it. That or I'm an idiot and can't edit it. --Vindexus 22:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I brought up this topic like twice already, both my attempts were turned down. saying that KotOR is old enough not to have spoiler tags in it. - TopAce 11:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Locked
Hasn't this page been locked from Anons and New users for a bit long now? (It's been locked since September.) -- Yoshi  626  01:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Recent mask edits
Compare the final image with the other two. Divided into four areas&mdash;center, top, left, and right&mdash;with strange emblems (writings?) on each. No T visor at all, much less a glowing one. In fact, there doesn't even appear to be any opening for the user's eyes. All this considered, I don't think we have to be idiots to presume that the Shadows and Light mask more closely resembles Revan's trademark than the game-available alternative. If the folk in charge want to retcon it as Uthar's Sith mask to make it aesthetically compatibble with the game, then that's their business. I personally think it was a mistake of the game designers to not make the mask part of Revan's robes (ala the Sith Armor, Sand People Clothing, and Mandalorian Assault Armor), but that's my business. -BaronGrackle 20:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Arkanian Binders (or Force Binders - both use same model) was the mask I was referring to. Exactly like what was seen in Shadows and Light (just tinted blue). -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 20:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, that does make more sense, and it explains why the comic's image did look vaguely familiar to me. But I don't think any image model for those appears in the original KOTOR...? -BaronGrackle 21:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Everything in that panel is possible to be. Only differences are lightsaber hilt and the hooded robe - which are game mechanics. Game couldn't create robes that flow properly like in K2. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 21:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * BaronGrackle, it's possible to get that yellowed visored mask in the first KoTOR. I remember wearing it on the Star Forge. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 22:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it hidden somewhere? I've looked through every item on this page here, and while it doesn't have images, I think I remember the models for everything listed. -BaronGrackle 04:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My bad. It's called a Vacuum mask. How odd that the player could only obtain it if the PC chooses the Dark Side...game mechanic or conflicting sources? -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 20:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
This article seems to assume that the Jedi Council outright removed Revan's previous memories, rather than simply inserting new ones into a dead mind. Bastila says that Revan's mind was destroyed shortly after the Revelation scene, and as such this would indicate that they simply inserted new things into a nearly blank slate. Also, terms like brainwashing are highly charged and POV, and we don't use such charged terms on articles like Galactic Empire, slavery, Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker, or even Rancor. Therefore, I'm slapping the NPOV tag on this until it is edited for a more objective analysis of the subjects life. Lord Patrick 22:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There. I can find no more reference to brain washing, or to the Council's intentional mind-wiping. Let me know if you see anything else. Maclimes Zero''' (talk) [[Image:Infinite_Empire.png|10px]] 23:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

quotes
there should be a wiki quotes section there was alot of talk about his skill and how much poeple respected him.

Done Lord Patrick 21:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Good job, Patrick. :) -- Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 06:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

force talents
I thjink we should put together section that talks about how strong he was I know there is little info but ther eise some. I have been reading about revan past and have played both games and we could have a section mybe not a long one but we could have one. So anyone who know anything of revans force powers please add it here.74.138.90.121 22:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * It wouldn't work. Thanks to game mechanics there are just too many varibles for us to consider. It's best just leaving the section out entirely because it would spark an endless debate. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

But we do have some confirmed force talents74.138.90.121 23:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)tonyman1989
 * Not really. Only real powers we have are the ones he would use in the vision in the tomb and that wouldn't be considered all that accurate since it was a vision. Though here is what he is capable of throwing at the player if it's any consolation:


 * Throw Lightsaber
 * Mind Trick (can't use it on player but oh well)
 * Force Speed
 * Life Drain
 * Destroy Droid
 * Force Shield (protect from all Force attacks)
 * Force Push
 * Heal
 * Force Lightening
 * Energy Resistence (protect from all basic attacks)

-- Redemption  Talk 23:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Revan could also use Force Choke, it's the only actual Force power we see pre-amnesia Revan use when Bastila's strike team confronted him. Master Kavar 04:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If we say anything about that, though, it would have to be said that he once knew Force Choke. After his amnesia, he forgot absolutely every Force power and had to learn them all over again.Darth Ceratis 23:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

"Comparison with Anakin Skywalker"
This HAS to go. Blatant original research. "Many have noticed..." - who are those "many"? Where are the sources? - Sikon 18:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to "Comparisons have been made between...". I think some of the section is a bit silly; their attire as dark lords isn't really that similar at all, but the rest is perfectly fine. It was a lot worse at one point.(Ulicus 15:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC))

The beginning of the article.
I think the beginning of the article is quite dull,and doesn't resemble Revans true power.He was not just a jedi knight that turned to the dark side during Mandalorian Wars,but he was the strongest force user of his time,and maybe in the whole Star Wars history.I think it must be complitely changed.
 * Ugh. This is an encyclopedia, not a gusher's fan site. We're meant to be objective here, and there's no canonical evidence to suggest Revan is the most powerful Force user ever. The intro's fine as it is - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 19:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Omg,he may not be the strongest in the whole history,but he was at his time.If it is encyclopedia,why then Anakins page begins with "Anakin Skywalker was a legendary male Human Jedi Knight in the waning days of the Jedi Order who was believed to be the Chosen One.Bla Bal Bal."I think it is not fair,cos Revan just like Anakin was "The Chosen One" of his era!
 * No, it's different. Anakin fulfilled the "Chosen One" prophecy, thus earning him the title of "Chosen One". 22:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Kwenn is right. I'd go as far to say that Anakin shouldn't be referred to as a "legendary" Jedi Knight on his page either, as it's completely POV. Besides, Revan's great aptitude for the Force is already covered in the "Comparison with Anakin Skywalker" section and his other abilities are gone over in the talents section. Revan was the most naturally gifted Force pracitioner of his era - not of all time - and he may not have been the most powerful of his era. Both the Exile and Nihilus, with their karked up natures, are challengers for this title. (Ulicus 14:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC))

Action Figure
According to the Wilrow Hood article, Revan won the Hasbro action figure poll and will therefore be made an action figure. I couldn't verify this for certain, but if they do make a figure mightn't that shed some light on some of these issues that haven't been resolved? Just a thought.Darth Ceratis 23:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC) There is a much, much greater chance that the figure will simply be "Darth Revan", and be clad in the customary robes with a non-removable mask. I wouldn't get excited. (Ulicus 19:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC))
 * And what issues would that be? -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 03:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't know. It'll depend on exactly how they make the action figure. Maybe it'll have a removable mask. Might come with a second lightsaber that isn't his Sith one. There's so many not-quite-resolved issues about canon elements of Revan's appearance it just seems likely that something might be addressed.Darth Ceratis 03:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm... those are pretty valid points. It could finally show a canon model of Revan's face, and maybe even show an accurate version of his lightsaber, Sith or not. But, until then, it's all conjecture. 03:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Chances are that they won't come up with a canon face so don't count on that. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 03:58, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if they include a removable mask, then they have to make a face. And, since we don't have any canon face pics, that face would be considered canon. Unless I'm mistaken... 04:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * IF they do. There is no guarantee that they will. I really doubt it since Hasbro is more concerned about satisfying fans with various "play options" rather then staying in what has been declared canon. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 04:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand your point. I wasn't implying that "OMG their finally going to reveal Revans face OMGOMGOMGOMG!!1!1!" like that, but instead in the form of "Well, we'll see what happens. If they do follow canon and show a face, etc." 05:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I think that, because of the very nature of what Revan is (ie, a customizable character who can be light or dark) then it's likely they would make an action figure that can be either as well, which would involve the ability to remove the mask and to have Jedi and Sith lightsabers.Darth Ceratis 20:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're probably right, but one can still hope. I guess we'll find out in a few months.Darth Ceratis 21:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)