Talk:Meetra Surik

Archives: 1 2 3 4

HEY UNPROTECT ARCHIVE 4
HOW CAN WE DICUSS IF THE PAGE IS LOCKED!!!
 * http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/archive --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There is nothing to discuss. The issues of the Exile's gender have been discussed over and over again. There is no point in restarting the discussion. -- SFH 16:14, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * And don't remove people's comments. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Note
The lengthy discussions previously here have been put in the third archive. If you want to start a discussion, you may want to check one of the previous archives to see if your points have been raised already. If you want to start up a discussion complaining about the Exile being female: please do so on another site, unless you can find a genuinely new point and can do so without insulting other editors or the Lucasfilm people responsible for setting the female lightside Exile as canon. Thanks. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 15:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Brianna
Two questions: If the Exile is female, then what is the fate of Brianna? If she's one of the lost jedi, then did she die with the rest of her sisters at the Telos Academy, or did she slip away from or survive the Exile's slaughter? Jedi Wolf 3:46, 22 Octbober 2006 (UTC) That's true I suppose; I thought the murder was implied, but considering how much content is missing it's probably not a good idea to make any assumptions. For all we know Atris just wanted to tell them they had the rest of the day off. XD Master Kavar 02:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Unknown. Completely and utterly unknown as to what happens to the Handmaiden Sisters. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 19:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe in the female Exile scenario that Atris murders the handmaidens herself, to prevent them from discovering her fall to the dark side. I can't say if this happens to Brianna is well, she's not shown at all. Master Kavar 00:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The game makes no indication of this, does it? Kreia tells the handmaidens that Atris wishes to see them, and we never see the handmaidens again... however, in the male version, Kreia gives the same line and we DO see the handmaidens again. So I'd attribute it more to a lack of content, than to an implication that they were killed. -BaronGrackle 02:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Malachor
Can someone post a quote from an official source confirming that Malachor was destroyed, please.
 * What do you mean? The planet disintegrated in one of the final cinematic videos in KotOR:TSL.– 20:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

There is more than one ending. I'm trying to find out if its destruction was confirmed in an official source, for a theory I am developing.
 * In the canonical ending Malachor was destroyed. So yes, it was. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 07:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There's only two endings: Light or Dark. And since the Light Side ending is canonical, Malachor V was disintigrated as the Exile left it. It's gone. As for a quote, look here on the talk page, at the top. She is listed specifically in the New Essential as a "heroine." I don't much think "heroine" constitutes the Dark Side ending. --Scy Storm 07:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Irony
As stated by Kreia in KOTOR II, Revan and the Jedi Exile are ironically described being total opposites, namely; Revan being called "The Heart of the Force", while The Exile was called "The Death of the Force".

How is this ironic? Kreia doesn't "ironically" describe them as total opposites she flat out and plainly describes them as total opposites.(Ulicus 12:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC))
 * You're right, that bugs the hell out of me. I would change it myself if I could. Master Kavar 16:50, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * All an administrator has to do is take out the words "described being"..."being called"... and "was called", and then fill in the grammatical holes. -BaronGrackle 20:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think they should just remove "ironically." I don't recall Kreia ever mentioning it as being ironic, though you can correct me if I'm wrong. It's plain to see that it is NOT ironic, so if Kreia DID say it was, then we'll go with your idea, Baron. --Scy Storm 07:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think she ever called it ironic, but "Heart of the Force" and "Death of the Force" are nearly direct opposites. As Revan and Exile were major controllers of Galactic events, one after the other, it could qualify as irony&mdash;it's just that Kreia's description was not ironic. Kreia was not being ironic; they were. Grammar structure. But removing the word "ironicallly" also fixes the sentence. -BaronGrackle 15:51, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, um...I wrote that triva. I didn't know she purposely stated it as such, I thought it was coincidental. I didn't think it'd cause so much irritation, either. Sorry. --_-- Xepeyon 02:44, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber of the Jedi Exile
Although the player has the choice on what type and color the lightsaber is that Atris takes out during their conversation at the Telos Academy, if the player declines to talk about the lightsaber after Peragus, the default lightsaber is a single-bladed cyan-colored lightsaber.

I would like to know where this piece of information came from, as well as any instances in the game it is verified. In my experience, if the lightsaber discussion with Atton is dismissed, the default lightsaber of the Exile is single-bladed, and the colour depends on her class (yellow for the Sentinal class, blue for Guardian and green for Consular). This is shown during the Trial of the Exile cinematic, where she proceeds to stab her ignited lightsaber into the center stone.

Where did the idea of a cyan lightsaber come from? --Chaota 20:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That's bizzare Chaota; I've played that scene a dozen times myself, and if the question of the Exile's lightsaber was dismissed it is always set to single blade Cyan. And I've done that scene with all three starting classes. I'm not certain why it would be different for you. Master Kavar 21:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The Exile was a general in the Mandalorian Wars. She probably started out with a standard color, but changed it to something that suited her better. It should also be noted that cyan is halfway between green and blue, possibly implying a balance between Jedi Consular and Jedi Guardian.--Atlas503 05:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gaaahh! Not gameplay mechanics again. - Sikon 06:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that might be looking a little too deep into it Atlas, it's just a random color after all. It wouldn't really matter what the color was...except maybe red, that would probably raise a few eyebrows. Master Kavar 07:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well a few Jedi had red lightsabers, without falling, or haven fallen to the darkside. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 12:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * So I've heard, but those Jedi were all from the New Jedi Order of Luke Skywalker, correct? Master Kavar 23:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, Adi Galia is an example 81.76.30.151 23:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Adi Galia is, like, THE example. It may not have been law that red = evil, but it's the general impression that everyone gets. "Wait, you didn't go red, did you? [...] Great. After we're all dead, you and that Sith can have a party."

- Atton Rand (paraphrased)


 * NOTE: For whatever reason the Jedi Exile has a cyan lightsaber, cyan is in the middle of blue and green on the color spectrum. This could be an indicator that the Exile was a balance between a Jedi Consular and a Jedi Guardian, or it could be a complete and total coincidence.--Atlas503 07:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting take, but the game already presents a balance between Consular and Guardian: the Jedi Sentinel. -BaronGrackle 14:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if you hadn't noticed, the Sentinel - by the game stats - is not a thorough balance. It is the complete opposite of the Consular, and then there's the Guardian out there all by itself. If Atlas's hypothesis is accurate, then it may go to say that the Exile might have been a Sentinel, but sought a more balanced existence between the two extreme classes; other than that which we see in the game mechanics. But then again, other than the default cyan, all of this is just speculation.--Master Dakari 14:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Miscategorization maybe?

 * For once, this is not about the gender of the Exile. I was just wondering why the non-canon romances are placed in a non-BTS section. And personally, I think the section on Sion is stretching it, but there may be some more knowledgeable people out there than me. I played the game through as LS Female to get a perspective on canon. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 17:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the non-canon romances were in the bts section already? Oh and trust me, the Sion blurb there is completely accurate. I've checked and compared the male/female scripts myself. The female Exile even has the option of returning his feelings (or lieing that she does) just prior to their final battle. Master Kavar 21:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the "Romance" heading is at the same level as the "Behind the Scenes" heading, so I treated them as if they were separate section. Atris, Brianna, and Visas are all in that Romances section as opposed to BTS. I believe you on the Sion thing . . . but that's just about as wrong as Palpatine and Isard. Nyaaggghh. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 15:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well the Behind the Scenes section is above the Romances section, so it's inside it. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 19:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 19:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. (Sorry if i sounded rude, i was being rushed). Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 20:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No offense taken. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 01:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

New image proposal
Well, since inserting any image into the article without discussion is likely to generate a lot of heat, I'm putting the image here for your consideration. This is not meant to be used as the main infobox image, but rather as a thumb within the article text.

As I see it, Force Sight is perfect here because it obscures details away, while retaining the general idea. - Sikon 19:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC) It doesn't look too bad to me; where do you propose placing it within the article? Master Kavar 23:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC) ''Exile: During our fight, Visas did something to my eyes. ''Kreia: She did nothing to your eyes that was not already there. .I'm not sure how this would fit into canon or continuity exactly. Master Kavar 06:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC) If the picture isn't going to show detail about the character in the article, then It shouldn't be there. MPK 13:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, tbh, i don't really see the point. It doesn't igve any detail at all, and it's better of not being in the article IMHO. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like a blue blob. Bleh...-- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 20:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Should I also note that it is not canon at all? Visas casting force sight during their duel is cut content, making it non-canon. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 23:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure it is cut content exactly Redemption; the scene where Visas attacks the Exile with Force sight itself was cut, but afterwards you can talk to Kreia and the Exile acts like this scene did take place:
 * or the article for that matter. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 08:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Harbinger to Onderon?
"The Harbinger, a Republic cruiser bound to Onderon"

I thought it was going to Telos? If I remember correctly, on the logs on the Harniger, didn't carth say that the Exile must reach Telos?
 * The Harbinger was originally headed for Onderon, but it was redirected in order to pick up the Exile and bring her to Telos.– 02:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Swoop Racer
Since it is suggested that Revan participated in Swoop racing on Tatooine and Manaan (other than Taris of course); facutal evidence for this being that on Onderon, one of the citizins (NPCs, have you) will call the Exile a swoop racer and say she should go pro, so shouldn't we add that to her list of accomplishments.RushinSundaws 06:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe, I'm not sure. We could say for sure that Revan was a swoop racer because there was some mention of his exploits in TSL's, but with the Exile it's not so clear. That Onderonian may be a glitch, because I've had them say that even when I didn't race at all. Just because the player can swoop race, doesn't mean the Exile did, or even do well for that matter. Space Ball 11:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Gender
"This confirmation from the Keeper of the Holocron established that the Exile is indisputably female." - sadly, no, it confirms that there indisputably is a canonical gender for the character, but doesn't say (conclusively) what it is. While it is extremely unlikely that a later publication having to refer to the gender would be allowed to make the wrong call, it is possible. Presumably at some earlier point (before the game was launched) it seemed appropriate for the lead to be male; I doubt that the powers that be would have allowed that in the first place if there wasn't nominal agreement on the subject.

The fact that (assuming the gender being female is correct, which seems eminently reasonable) the decision was made to take the harder route and contradict earlier indications. I'd probably make the same decision, but solely for variety's sake.

Probably someone should ask why the Exile was chosen to be canonically female (two birds with one stone there), but at this point I have as little motivation to do so as the apparent reverting warriors here do. Why hasn't anybody asked for an actual explicit canonical decision (as of the current time)?

By the way, citing the source would have been extremely useful - I ended up finding it on the 68th page of the forum thread! -- 81.154.242.182 00:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC) call me "the infinite bobs"

I'd like to point out that the official trailer for the game refers to the Exile as a male. In light of this, I do not think that the Exile should necessarily be considered female yet.
 * This has been discussed a million times before. Check the archives linked at the top of the page. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 20:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Trailer pre-dates both game and the book. Exile is female. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 20:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Usually, the more recent release of a canonical source is the "most canon." Except for movies, of course. A game trailer is probably "outcanoned" by anthing, though. Trailers are made to ignite interest in a game (or movie). Since (I think) many would play with a male character, setting the player's character as male is better for merchandizing. - TopAce 20:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Given that Chris Avellone said the trailer has nothing to do with the actual game events and it was a conscious decision, it's non-canon. - Sikon 03:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Despite everything we've do, we can't seem to stop people from attempting to revive this argument. Anyone have any ideas on how to make it any clearer that the Exile is female, and it's not going to change unless officially retconned?-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 07:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We should just stop answering these questions and leave them as if they didn't exist. - TopAce 20:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The only way to know the gender of the Exile is to wait for the info from KOTOR 3
 * You mean like how KoTOR 2 told us Revan's gender? --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 22:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Not true, you can choose Revan's gender, having the game alter around it. Maybe KOTOR 3 will be like that. Jedi master Rimsek 22:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC) – 22:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC) Before this turns into a rant, I better get to the point. My main point is that it seems as though the Exile was only established as female because Leland Chee and the folks at Lucasfilm wanted to pacify the angry female fans and NOT because they were attempting to actually create a strong female character. Of course, that is only my opinion and I can't say that I really blame them since far more men play these games then women, but I still find it disappointing.– 01:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC) Whilst trying to see it from a woman's perspective in almost every star wars thing the main character is almost always Male, and a few companions are female. I will close be saying that even if the droid book says the exile is female kotor stats that only He can save the galaxy, I'm sure Kotor would be more canon that some droid book but it does seem that the exile is know canonicaly female By Hk-47
 * I believe there are a few select incidences where KOTOR II refers to Revan as male, regardless of the "Atton Inputs" at the opening of the game. .  .  .  .  22:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope. After you choose Revan's gender, no other comments are ever made to the contrary. Jedi master Rimsek 23:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Mmm? So sure are you? .  .  .  .  23:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure, but I could be wrong. Jedi master Rimsek 00:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Referring to Revan as a male despite you setting them as female would be considered a bug. Otherwise the Atton conversation would be like Atton: "What can you tell me about Revan?" Exile: "Well, Revan was a female and-" Atton: "WRONG!" --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 00:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't remember any such conversation.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 00:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Because he's saying it doesn't happen because it would be a bug. Duh. Jedi master Rimsek 02:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I misread his comment.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 02:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I can think of at least one instance of that "bug" appearing. When you get to Dantooine and repair the protocol droid in the hangar and see the hologram between Kavar and Vandar, they refer to the exile as male, even if you are female. There are other instances also, but I can't think of them. I do know, however, that there are never any bugs where a male Exile is called female.Darth Ceratis 01:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Uhh... we're talking about revan's "customizable" gender right now... Jedi master Rimsek 00:56, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that since the main/defualt gender of the exile in the game is male it should stay male on the page, or at least stay as unknown because there are sources that say the exile is male and there are some that say the exile is female.
 * Since when is the Jedi Exile's default gender male? -  Yoshi  626 [[Image:Yoshiegg.jpg|20px]] 07:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * What sources say the Exile is male?-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 09:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It would be interesting to know why the gender calls on both KOTORs were made the way they were. Frankly, it only bugged me as bad as it does because of the game files putting so much more material on the gender declared non-canon. (the alternate ending and romance for female Revans, additional motive for Atris's hostility, the Handmaiden's arc, the promo art, and the Obsidian's own trailer for male Exiles). It's also telling that the same guys who gut out the female Exile writing are usually the same bozos puffing out their chest and crowing about canon when it comes to Revan's debate.
 * I can understand how you feel. I also prefer the female Revan and the male Exile, but having said that, this topic has really run its course and we are all fairly tired of it. The following links should provide all the information that we know about Chee's decision:
 * http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=222689&start=615#12367041
 * http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=222689&start=01830#14548812
 * As a KOTOR gamer, I prefer male Revan and male Exile, because, since I'm a guy myself, it's easier to identify with male characters. As a Star Wars fan with respect for what's considered official canonical continuity, I'm fine with a female Exile - in fact, I think it's a great retcon as it erases some of the traditional gender patterns from our own world and it's kind of in line with the image of the strong female character we know from Leia and from Amidala (before she was reduced to a traditional housewife). The Exile's a girl - get over it. KEJ 23:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, and I know this is completely off-topic, I don't think the decision to make the Exile female does away with the "traditional gender patterns from our own world". Quite the contrary. You will notice that the truly important, strong, and powerful character, Revan, is male. Meanwhile, Revan's relatively unremarkable subordinate, the Exile, is female. I think that it could easily be argued that such an arrangement is fairly stereotypical and not terribly admirable.– 23:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * LOL, in some rhetorical twisty way, you got a point. Of course, on the other hand, if Revan was a female and the Exile was a male, this could be seen as an allegory of the Fall of Man, in which Eve tempts Adam to eat the apple and thus being exlied from Paradise as a result, which cause the oppression of women in many communities who took the Old Testament as their holy book in the following thousands of years. The female Revan would influence the male Exile into activating the Mass Shadow Generator, thus becoming exiled from the Jedi Order as a result. That's an equally stereotypical arrangement. KEJ 00:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong, I am glad that they chose to make one of the player characters female. I just think that it is rather lame that they chose the easiest solution rather than the controversial one. I mean, in many ways, the female Revan was a far more intriguing and original character, especially since there are absolutely no truly powerful female figures in the Star Wars universe. On the other hand, the male Revan is little more than a weird thrawn/palpatine amalgamation.
 * If not for Disciple replacing Handmaiden in the female story, I wouldn't mind the Exile being a girl. MPK 23:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The beggining of the game says only He can save the galaxy. P.h2 18:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It has been said by two sources that the Exile is a female, post-dating the game. Give it up (or get slapped with a ban-stick. Your call) -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 18:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't know... it does say at the beginning of the game that only "He" can save the galaxy. I think this is sufficient evidence to prove that the ability for a player to choose a female Exile character is nothing more than an elaborate BUG, that the game designers never meant for the female game to even be an option, and that any information from that campaign was never meant to make it into final production. Yup. I think that's what makes sense. The female option was a game bug. -BaronGrackle 02:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's right, they spent all that time programming in several female faces for the Exile, a romance option, and various other storyline changes appropriate for a female Exile by mistake. (In all seriousness, does that opening text change when you pick a female main character?  If not, that's a bug.  Which is what you're saying, right?  Sorry, my sarcasm detector overloaded last week.  8) ) &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 02:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Name
There has been some debate as to choosing a name for the Exile. I think fans should do what is being done for Jacen Solo as fans are helping choose his new Sith name. Fans should submit name ideas, the writers choose the top ones they like, and fans vote for them. Jedi Striker, 25 November 2006, 02:15 (UTC)
 * Unless there is an official contest, which I doubt will happen, we can't give the Exile a name.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 07:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well we can't have the Exile nameless forever. Jedi Striker, 25 November 2006, 13:38 (UTC)
 * Take it up with Leland Chee. -- SFH 19:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Jedi Exile/temp
Ok ok I had this idea. since we don't have a Canon ending for the game yet we should have temp pages made for certain articals reguarding there darkside endings of Kotor II. like the Exile, Hanharr etc etc Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 16:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, that's not really needed. The article kinda covers both endings as it is. Jasca Ducato 16:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the ending was canonized? The Jedi Exile was described as a heroine, and I believe there's some mention of Malachor V being destroyed, which only happened in the light-side ending. Master Kavar 05:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason it's being queried is because Leeland Chee recently said that the ending had not been canonised. (Ulicus 17:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC))
 * It is. The New Essential Guide to Droids established that. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 00:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We do actually have some interesting topics in the 'Senate Hall'- there's a good one on spelling. Find one on punctuation, and then you'll be set! Darth Maddolis 09:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Homeworld
A while ago when playing as a female, when I first went to Dantooine and spoke with Dillan (I didn't have a lightsaber at the time so she didn't refuse to speak to me), and when she asked me why I came to Dantooine, I believe an option was that she used to live there. Bao-Dur asked me if this was true, and I belive I said something like, 'Yes, but I only tended the farms' or something along those lines. I don't know if this will contribute to the article or not, but I thought I'd share it incase :).
 * I had forgotten about that; the Exile wasn't a farmer, but she did grow up on Dantooine as a child. Shouldn't Dantooine be listed as the Exile's homeworld? Master Kavar 18:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * She was trained on Dantooine, but I don't think that we have enough information to state it was her home world.– 21:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, it is very possible since the order of the planets the Exile visited aren't exactly set in stone. If Mira comes with the Exile, she asks the Exile if she was a Farmer and the Exile says yes. At one point or another, Dantooine was the Exiles homeworld. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Right, especially since we call Tatooine Luke's homeworld and Alderaan Leia's, though neither were born there. -BaronGrackle 22:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've changed the infobox to reflect this. - Sikon 07:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool. I'm glad to see this info was useful.

Cut Off from the Force
Wanted to reopen this category temporarily. I saw the discussion of this previously in Archive 4 for this page, in case anyone wanted to see where this was coming from.

Have not played KOTOR series, but article discusses the Jedi Exile cutting herself off from the force. I wanted to link this to Sever Force. Though she may not have been severed in the way Ulic-Qel Droma was, she certainly was cut off from it. Kyle Katarn also cut himself off temporarily, (says the Wook'pedia article, but I can track down source if need be). There are a number of sources for people temporarly cutting themselves off from the force. This ability should be noted on the Sever Force page, and linked to from the pages of characters who have performed it or had it performed on them. Serendipitousus 08:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC) "When you stood before us in the council chamber on Couruscant, we felt something from you, we'd never felt before &mdash; it was as if the Force had died within you, leaving you hollow. We had suspicions about why this was, but nothing definite."
 * no, we mentioned previously somewhere that Sever Force was different to the Force power used on the Eixle. I shall try to find the relevant discussion. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, it makes sense that this is not Sever Force. But it is something, which might ought to be named, and perhaps described as a weaker version of Sever Force. Kyle Katarn cut himself off temporarily, and seems very similar to the exile. What do you think about an article for a power used by those two? Serendipitousus 20:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There already is one, i've been trying to find it. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 20:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps y'all are referring to Cut Off from the Force? There is currently a vote on merging them, as some (including myself) believe the different examples are just different levels of the same power. -BaronGrackle 20:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We'll if that is the canonical name for the power, then it has reached that name purely by chance. I believe that that article was a dupe of Sever Force, and the information on the page currently reflects that. It could well be that an article by that name is needed for the Jedi Exile and Kyle Katarn. Someone with more resources than I would do well to check and see if that is the case Serendipitousus 04:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait,wait, wait. The Exile was never actually cut off from the Force. She only lost the ability to feel it. I think that the following quotes will provide ample proof:

- Kavar


 * Vrook: We did not cut you off from the Force. You were merely deafened to it, because of that last battle of the Mandalorian Wars.
 * Zez-kai Ell: The screams of countless thousands, Jedi and Mandalorians, crushed by the planet's gravity, annihilated.
 * Kavar: Their lives scream across the surface of the deat planet &mdash; and within you. To hear the Force over such pain&hellip; it is not possible. It was too much for any Jedi to endure&hellip; and it is a wonder that you did not die there where thousands perished, all those you had fought and struggled with. You cut yourself off, because you had to if you were to survive. You had hints of it on the war on Dxun. Malachor was simply the final blow.
 * Vrook: You were deafened.
 * Kreia: At last, you could hear.
 * Kavar: You were broken.
 * Kreia: You were whole.
 * Zez-kai Ell: You were blinded.
 * Kreia: And at last, you saw.
 * Vrook: When you returned to us, we saw what had happened&hellip;
 * Kavar: In you, we saw a wound in the Force.
 * Zez-kai Ell: In you, we saw the end of the Force.


 * Vrook: Yes&hellip; you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their will and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force. Within you we see something worse than the teachings of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force&hellip; and the death of the Jedi.


 * Vrook: It is not the strenght of a Jedi that you feel.
 * Zez-kai Ell: He's right. Its&hellip; all the death you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor&hellip; it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds &mdash; only to become more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?

"You are an echo in the Force, a hollow space where it has been wounded. It takes a great act of destruction to create such emptiness, but it can be done. It creates places where the Force is difficult to hear, and difficult to find one's way. And you carry it with you, always."

- Atris

– 21:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC) By the way, when was Kyle cut off from the Force? As far as I can remember, he simply stopped using it after falling to the dark side and his abilities atrophied.– 22:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC) "He repeatedly denied the ways of the Force, at one time going so far as to completely sever his own connection to it....It was after the Dromund Kaas incident that he severed the bonds with the Force completely. His motivation for reconnecting with the Force was ultimately also motivated by revenge, as he sought to avenge Ors, whom he thought killed. But even in his darkest hours there would always be some light inside him and he would spare the lives of his worst enemies more often than not."
 * So basically, the Exile did a Kyle Katarn. They both effectively "cut themselves off", but still retained their core Force abilites. And both eventually reclaimed them aswell. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, yes&hellip; basically. Although it should be noted that the Exile was only deafened to the Force and that she did not do it to herself intentionally (which explains why she remained ignorant about how, when, and why she had lost her powers).
 * In as best an answer to the Kyle question as I have, from TFA on Kyle Katarn.

Also, some dude by the handle of WildYoda mentioned that Jacen Solo was temporarly impaired in his use of the force by something Vergere did to him? If that's true, where does that fit in? Serendipitousus 00:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Who/what's TFA? As far as I know, Sentry, you're right in regards to Kyle. He *never* cut himself off. He simply stopped using it. Wookieepedia seems to be making stuff up in that regard. As for the Exile... the game is somewhat contradictory regarding what's happened to her. Part of the whole "Obsidian rushing it out of the door" thing most likely. (Ulicus 17:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC))
 * I mean, for example, in the quotes you provided, Kavar goes on to say that the Exile *did* cut herself off from the Force. So I'm guessing it went, "Death, violence, crushing destruction > Deafened to the Force > Extreme Pain > Cut herself off from it subconsciously" (Ulicus 17:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Homeworld
Why is the exile's homeworld listed as Dantooine? I don't think they ever say she was born there. Jedi master Rimsek 01:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't say she was born there. But see this talk page, above. - Sikon 01:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, ok, I remember getting that too, but she was probably talking about her time in the enclave, and didn't want to elaborate further to Dillan, because the people of dantooine hated jedi. Jedi master Rimsek 01:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Severing Kreia's other hand
Where did that come from? I remember in the game that you defeat her the first time, and she goes into her typical "I'm a videogame boss" telekenetic combat. But during that, you can bypass the sabres, and attack her directly, only to have her produce her own sabre again, and fight you again. I may be wrong, but I do not remember her losing her other hand. . .  .  .  00:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Me neither, and the first time I played I actually bypassed the 3 flying sabers to attack her directly, but she didn't draw her saber, she fought with her bare hand, so she still had it.--Petiflo 13:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If you have a game saved there, watch it again. After the first round, we don't see the Exile actually sever Kreia's hand, but we see Kreia nursing her newly emptied limb in the following dialogue. If you attack Kreia directly, she won't draw her own red lightsaber (unless this is some glitch that Elipsis found, or an XBox thing), and she doesn't fight with her bare "hand" so much as her bare limbs. It's like at any point in the game when she uses a Force power, and she extends that left stump of hers; hilarious. But at the end, they're two stumps. -BaronGrackle 21:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In-game, towards the end of the combat, the Exile servers her other hand. Play the game how it should be played and you'll see. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Is the Crew really dead?
I just have one question to ask: In the Light Side ending of KotOR II, have your companions (Besides T3-M4) really died? Because I'm not sure. Any helpful comments would be appreciated, as I'm completely confused. Exile Catherine 02:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Exile_Catherine
 * As I recall, at least some of them are supposed to have gone on to help rebuild the Jedi Order. That's what Kreia's prophecies say, anyway. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 02:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought too, but a lot of articles say that only T3 and the Exile survived, so that confused me. Exile Catherine 02:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Exile_Catherine
 * Which ones? -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 02:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Language proficiency
Whatever languages Exile understands, she understands because of her own skills. The player isn't even required to pick up the HK vocabulator. Of course, she doesn't speak Shyriiwook, as it's only possible for Wookiees, but she understands it. - Sikon 07:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Whether or not the player picks up the Sonic Imprint Sensor, the game assumes that the Exile has it. It's explained in a conversation with HK:

''HK-47: Query: Master, excuse me, one thing I have noticed as we travel the galaxy - you seem to possess the ability to understand a variety of alien languages. Forgive me, but that does not seem in keeping with my assessment of your talents.''

Exile: I picked up a sonic imprint sensor on Peragus - it doubles as a translator.

''HK-47: Answer: Because it seems to know all the languages I do, and I am feeling degrees of familiarity and inferiority both at once. ... Indeed, it seems to be modeled after my vocabulator, with some modifications, of course.''


 * From that conversation the game seems to imply that the Exile knows only a limited amount of languages, and surely not one as obscure as Shyriiwook. As far as I can tell, the only languages that the Exile has been confirmed as knowing on her own is galactic basic and droid speak. Master Kavar 08:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, the sensor. I get it now. - Sikon 08:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have an idea!
So I was reading the "arguments" over this very very stupid debate of male vs. female Exile. Some arguments I laughed at, some I cried for. This is just ridiculous. So here's an idea: we create two seperate articles! I know, I'm brilliant. Now, in order to avoid people getting their panties in a knot, we could name the article (gasp!) something not referencing sex! Now, fulfilling this feat is not for the weak of mind; it is something that only the brightest of this community can contemplate on. After all, the last thing we want is an article labeled, "MALE JEDI EXILE LOL!!!1" My suggestion for the name of this proposed article: "Substantial Alternate Plotlines for KOTOR2." With a title like this, we can talk about ALL of the alternate plotlines for the game, not just gender change. This way, the femi-nazis don't bitch about it, and the chauvinist pigs can shut face. Do the same for KOTOR1 and we've got two very full, very rich articles right there.

For those of you worried about canon issues, consider this: the game is considered canon. Therefore, all the plotlines are considered canon. After all, alternate timelines are considered as much canon as anything else. This is just an extension from that, really.

You all have to admit, if it weren't for the fact that this sparked a hot debate, the very idea of a Behind the Scenes section taking up half an article would be shunted to a seperate article in a heartbeat. Sirius Shadowflame 20:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I once felt the same way about creating two profiles to satisfy everyone, but after giving it some thought I know believe it works better the way it is now. Some people are unhappy about the canonizing of the Exile, but the character now transcends her video game origins, and the article should reflect the "official" character she is. The rest of the "alternative" data about the Exile from the video game works just fine as a BTS section. There's no reason why both sides can't be presented, but they're (unfortunately) not equal, and shouldn't be presented as such. Master Kavar 20:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It would only serve to satisfy the people who can't accept canon. A stupid idea. That's the problem with the world today. Everyone has to be satisfied. No such thing as "tough luck" anymore...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No separate articles. The alternate storyline is already covered in the BTS section of the main article. - Sikon 07:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)