User talk:Hobbie911

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Welcome Hobbie911!
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wookieepedian! If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the Senate Hall, visit our official IRC channel, or ask me on my talk page. May the Force be with you! &mdash; SFH 19:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
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Eras template
Hey, Hobbie! Thanks for adding those era tags to all those articles! I must ask one thing, though: that you use the correct template. It's, not. Thanks in advance! --Imp 15:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

10-4. I'll do it. Hobbie911 18:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Categories
Hey. How come you're putting Category:Alliance Military members under Category:Rebel Alliance members? I thought they generally just got listed under the subset. I reverted a couple, but I'll change them back if I'm wrong. Either way, can you put categories into alphabetical order and, for characters with two names, it should go. Thanks. Green Tentacle (Talk) 16:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, it seems that those who are Category:Alliance Military members are by rote also Category:Rebel Alliance members. Whereas the vice-verse isn't necessarily true. As far as the alphabetical order and names, I'll be sure to do that. Thanks. Hobbie911 16:13, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's true: which means there's no need to put characters in "Alliance Military members" and in "Rebel Alliance members", since all the characters in the Alliance Military subcategory are in the Rebel Alliance main category. (Similarly, anyone in Category:Rogue Squadron personnel doesn't get put into the Alliance Military category, because they were all by definition in the Alliance Military.)  I'm going to rollback several of your last edits to avoid redundant categories.  Cheers, &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 13:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, now that I think about it, some Rogue Squadron people were Alliance but not NR, and others were NR but not Alliance. Hmm.  Perhaps in that situation, there should be redundant categorization.  I won't get rid of those for if they overlap, then. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 13:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yea, Rogue Squadron spans four eras, so differentiation is probably necessary there. Hobbie911 17:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Question
How is Lando considered "Nobility"? --Imp 17:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, he was a Baron-Administrator. That's like a noble title, even if he did win it in a card game. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, if it's ever referred to as a noble title, fine. But I don't think the inclusion of "Baron" in the title makes it noble. =) --Imp 17:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Additionally, due to Lando's social status and his reputation as a venture capitalist by the New Jedi Order, I would argue he qualifies as someone among the "nobility." Much like Donald Trump would. The D20 RPG considers Lando both a "Noble" and a "Scoundrel" for this very reason. Hobbie911 17:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Trump has high socio-economic status, but he's not a nobleman. Additionally, RPG classes are game mechanics (i.e. non-canon). --Imp 17:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Explain to me how Donald Trump isn't considered nobility. Nobility is NOT something purely relegated to birthright. It is a status that can be earned and more often than not, IS earned. Presidents Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, many Hollywood actors/actresses, self-made billionaires and philanthropists like Bill Gates, political appointees like John Bolton, etc. all qualify as individuals among the "nobility." The elite. The wealthy. The influential. The successful. All qualities of the nobility--all qualities of Lando Calrissian as well. Hobbie911 17:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nobility: "Although the United States, like almost every society, has a privileged 'upper class' with great wealth and power, this does not entail a separate legal status, or different forms of address. The U.S. Constitution expressly forbids the U.S. government to grant titles of nobility, and for U.S. officials to accept them from foreign governments." --Imp 17:59, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The reference to nobility in the Constitution is dealing explicitly with nobility with regard to "royalty" (i.e. lords, ladies, dukes, duchesses, and kings). As has been noted, someone among the nobility is NOT by rote relegated to that status by birthright. Nobility can mean: "the state or quality of being noble." Nobility can mean: "nobleness in mind, character, or spirit." Nobility can mean: "grandeur or magnificence." You're using nobility in the strictest and most possible narrow sense--the 18th Century British NOUN definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nobility and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Noble should be useful for you. In the latter link, notice definitions 6-8; particularly 8. Hobbie911 18:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I am aware that there are more liberal definitions. But let's not turn this into a debate about the definition of nobility in our world. Back to Lando: the category description of "Nobility" is "holders of noble titles"&mdash;mr. Calrissian doesn't hold one. And to apply the liberal definition of nobility to him would be POV&mdash;he's not considered to be society's elite by everyone. --Imp 18:18, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it seems to me that there is an intrinsic necessity to discuss the definition of "noble." Is Baron-Administrator considered a "noble" title? If not, then why not? You're arguing that casting Lando as nobility is POV. Yet, it would seem to me that you're basically doing the same thing by claiming he's "not considered to be society's elite by everyone." I imagine Bail Organa or Soontir Fel wouldn't be considered to be society's elite by everyone either--but that doesn't change the objective fact that THEY ARE. Same applies for Lando. Yes, he was a scoundrel and gambler and smuggler and many see him as ONLY that. But he was also a Baron-Administrator, a venture capitalist, a war hero, a husband, an entrepreneur, a pilot, etc. If I were to use your argument, then I wouldn't be able to apply these titles BECAUSE he wouldn't be considered some or all of these things "by everyone." It's a poor argument IMHO. Cheers. Hobbie911 18:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)