Talk:Battle of Scarif

Rogue One SPOILERS
'''Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. SPOILERS'''.

So Rogue One established that the battle on Scarif was in fact just the theft of the Death Star plans. I think it would be wise to get rid of this page and move whatever we can to the theft article. -- Dr. Porter ( Talk | Contribs ) 01:04, December 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, it should be the other way around since this is the actual name of the battle. -- Dr. Porter Resistance starbird.svg ( Talk | Contribs ) 01:06, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

I vote yes. Jkirk8907 (talk) 05:52, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Theft of the Death Star plans should definitely be merged into Battle of Scarif (the official name according to TUVG). -  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 07:28, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

I vote no. granted yes it is part of the theft but i feel the battle gave them the means to actually do the theft. without the fleet to support them it would have been next to impossible. therefore i think the battle needs its own page.

Beamonde 09:24, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, it's all been sorted out. If you see the second comment I made, I realized that it's the theft article that should be merged with this page and deleted, which it has been for a few days now. -- Dr. Porter Resistance starbird.svg ( Talk | Contribs ) 09:46, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

Green Squadron
According to the Star Wars: Rogue One The Ultimate Visual Guide, Green Squadron was one of the squadrons at the battle. This squadron, made of X-Wings, assisted Red and Gold Squadrons in the space battle. What is the policy on this, if a squadron is identified as being in an event, yet there is no mention made of it in the movie? Should there be a mention made to it in the entry? The information on this squadron comes from pp. 168-170 & 172-173.--Memphis77 (talk) 05:59, December 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * If its mentioned in the Star Wars: Rogue One The Ultimate Visual Guide then its official, just as the Ghost is in the battle but its never mentioned. If the guide says that Green squadron was present in the battle it should be added--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 06:29, December 19, 2016 (UTC)

Unidentified Frigate?
You all know you saw it....there was this weird looking warship with the same color as the Hammerhead Corvette. Only it was bigger, probably 50 meters longer? there are three scenes. one is already on the page. you can see it in the lower right hand side. the other is i guess in the middle of the battle where its on the left hand side of the screen, you can see it firing at an enemy ship, and a third during the escape the unknown ship cuts left to avoid colliding with the incoming star destroyer. if you know what this thing is or can and are willing to get BETTER screenshots...that would be nice. help bring this thing into the light.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Whatthehekisthisthing.png

Beamonde 12:46, December 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe a Dornean gunship? -- Lelal Mekha  Old Republic military symbol.svg(Audience Room) 12:52, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

http://parsec.wikia.com/wiki/File:Pic3308070.png
 * Perhaps....and if it is can we should get cleaner pictures of it at the battle. would be good for the ships page. ive been trying to but not wise to take pictures at a theatre. ive been scouring the depths of youtube, google and other sites but to very little avail. i found a very bad picture someone took from the movie but its grainy and SUPER close.

Beamonde 13:12, December 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * It was confirmed by Pablo a few days ago that they are indeed Dornean gunships. -- Dr. Porter Resistance starbird.svg ( Talk | Contribs ) 23:42, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

Expansion?
Should this article be expanded to cover the battle in greater detail? As in having sections detailing the Ground Assault, Theft of the plans and the Space battle in greater detail. T-888 (talk) 22:47, December 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe so. You're welcome to add whatever you feel is necessary. -- Dr. Porter Resistance starbird.svg ( Talk | Contribs ) 23:33, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

-Okay, added some more info. If anyone has any more to added or fix, just do so. I am sure I made one or two mistakes lol. T-888 (talk) 03:30, December 23, 2016 (UTC)

Ion bombardment
It was clearly Gold Squadron that launched the ion attack on the star destroyer. Gold leader says "hit that opening" but then it cuts to who I believe is Gold 9.

The article suggests that Gold leader led the attack on the destroyer. How do we know whether or not Gold leader participated directly in the ion attack or whether he was elsewhere in the battle giving the order?

Source
What is the source for Jon Vander being one of the 5 y-wings leading the assault on the ISD? he gives the order, but we don't know if he is actually one of the Y-wings launching the torpedoes.

Outcome
Stealing the plans was both the Alliance's tactical objective and was a strategic victory for them, meaning they just had a straight up victory. The Empire failed to stop the Rebels getting away with the plans, and so was a tactical and strategic defeat. They did, however, manage to destroy a portion of the fleet, including the Profundity, and kill the ~30 soldiers comprising Rogue One, giving them some strategic advantage. -- Dr. Porter ( Talk | Contribs ) 06:03, January 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * Wrong. The alliance forces were forced to flee because of the Death Star. That alone makes Scariff a tactical loss for them and a tactical victory for the empire. On the other hand, the battle was an strategic victory for the alliance and a strategic loss for the empire because the plans were stolen, an objective that enabled the alliance to be victorious in the later battle of Yavin, a decisive victory that greatly contributed to the success of the alliance's entire war effort against the empire. A real life analogy or example of this type of situation would be The Battle of the Coral Sea from WW2, which allowed the USA to be victorious in Midway. -- Kronnang Dunn (talk) 17:44, February 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * The Alliance were not forced to flee because of the Death Star, they left because they successfully retrieved the plans, which was their tactical objective. They completed their tactical objective, and so it was a tactical victory. The Empire failed in stopping them, and so was a tactical defeat. The Alliance also had a strategic victory because stealing the plans gave them the means to deal a major blow to the Empire, like you said. On the other hand, the Empire had a minor strategic victory, the destruction of a portion of the Alliance fleet, including the Profundity, as well as the deaths of all the members of Rogue One gave them somewhat of an advantage in the long run, which is the definition of strategic victory. So, let me reiterate, the Rebels were not defeated in any capacity. They may have sustained damaging losses, but they completed their tactical objective, giving them a major strategic advantage against the Empire. -- Dr. Porter Resistance starbird.svg ( Talk | Contribs ) 22:02, February 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * It is a Rebel Alliance victory, no question, no ifs or buts. How do we know? "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire." Some of the first words of the saga. - Sir Cavalier of One FarStar.svg( Squadron channel ) 22:08, February 9, 2017 (UTC)

Casualties
Are we sure that 4 CR90 corvettes, were destroyed, saw it a couple of days ago and didnt saw it, could be wrong but I only saw the GR and Nebulons being destroyed --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:04, March 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * We need to discuss and actually find out how many ships escaped because there are many edits, undos, and misconceptions about how many escaped the battle. We need to agree on this because there have been several edits recently where people have been changing the casualty numbers.--Vitus Infinitus (talk) 21:50, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * I am currently replaying their escape and the ships that do escape before Vader arrives are 2 CR90s, a Hammerhead, a GR75, and some fighters. After that Vader arrives and it's impossible to tell what happened to the others (JohnWilliamsMovies (talk) 14:10, April 26, 2017 (UTC))
 * Just replayed it. It's three CR90s, two GR75s, a Hammerhead, and some fighters that escape. -- Dr. Porter Resistance starbird.svg ( Talk | Contribs ) 21:59, April 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is correct. Casualty wise, two GR-75 medium transports and one Nebulon-B frigate were explicitly seen being destroyed, the Profundity was disabled (and possibly destroyed afterwards) and the rest probably escaped off-screen, as there wasn't any debris nor did that lieutenant mention their fate, just the fact that the flagship was disabled. -- User:JediMasterSam
 * So do you know how many rebel ships survived the battle?--Vitus Infinitus (talk) 00:30, April 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah i checked again, 3 CR90s did escape before Vader instead of 2, but personally I imagine that the fleet was destroyed or heavily damaged since the major point of the battle was that the fleet was heavily damaged but as of now canon-wise I suppose the most of them escaped (JohnWilliamsMovies (talk) 05:35, April 27, 2017 (UTC))
 * We will never know the exact amount of ships that were destroyed, but we add the ships that we actually see being destroyed and the ones that escaped. We don't need to be to specific with information that we don't know and we're speculating --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 06:11, April 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed.--Vitus Infinitus (talk) 14:57, April 27, 2017 (UTC)

Named ships
I was looked at some paused frames and have identified at least 2 CR90 corvettes that have identical colour schemes to CR90s that appeared in Rebels. One of them is the Liberator. Photos: http://imgur.com/a/uG97F atlas_er (talk) 18:40, June 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I would say that this tweet from Matt probably means we can't say for sure yet --Lewisr (talk) 18:46, June 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I was going to say the same, I asked that to Matt and he said that it hasn't been confirmed. See Talk:Liberator (CR90 corvette), could be a new CR90 with same paint job. Maybe the Liberator is destroyed in Season 4 of Rebels--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 18:48, June 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, if it survives season 4 they'll probably answer whether or not its in Rogue One --Lewisr (talk) 18:51, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Nebulon
I changed the effectif of frigate nébulon b because with have one frigate on the right ( but she disappears in the others scene), also after with have one scene wiht 3 fregate and an others scene with one frigate that exit to hyperespace. I'm french, sorry for the mistake...

I changed the effectif of frigate nébulon b because with have one frigate on the right ( but she disappears in the others scene), also after with have one scene wiht 3 fregate and an others scene with one frigate that exit to hyperespace. I'm french, sorry for the mistake...

Hello, is for the effectif of frigate nebulon b, we have one frigate on the right of profundity and also we have one scene with 3 fregate and just after one frigate exit to hyperespace
 * That's why I added the at least, its going to be impossible to see how many Nebulons were in the battle--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 21:07, June 17, 2017 (UTC)

Second VCX-100 at Scarif
In the scene showing the x-wing exiting light speed a VCX can be seen in the top left corner. Also note the position of the x-wings and y-wings below it. In the scene immediately following it another VCX can be seen exiting lightspeed. The X-wings and y-wings seem to be the same ones with more x-wings arriving leading me to thing the scenes are not simply misordered and would place each VCX in seperate places.
 * Unlike the EF76 Nebulon-B escort frigate or the CR90 corvettes we don't see multiple VCX at the same time to confirm or deny that there were two. Its CGI and it can be a mistake from the movie just like in the Rebels episode Zero Hour the Phantom is gone during the final act but its going to be in S4. If you can get a confirmation that there's two in the battle that could help. For the moment we know the Ghost was there meaning that at least 1 VCX was present in the battle--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 08:32, July 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * While we don't see them at the same time, we have to assume that the scenes take place linearly. The fact we see one already there and then one arriving after we've already seen one implies there are at least 2.
 * That's pure speculation of our part. That's my opinion, I would love to hear what others think about this--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 08:47, July 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * I hardly see how me assuming two scenes happen in the order they're shown is speculation. It seems to me your opinion is that I should prove the movie is right and not that it's on you to confirm it's an error. I'll leave it to other people to decide. Edit: Scene I'm citing is at 1:37:48 on my copy and Netflix and the one immediately following it.

2.2 Updated with new information
Hello ! I have new information for the battle of Scarif, for the death or the troops. The information come to the book rogue one a star wars story. for the 108 TIE fighters in the pages 348 raddus speaks " 9 scadrons of TIE" for the Braha'tok gunship waas destroed is in the page 363 for the second hammerhead was destroyed is in the pages 366 For the 3 GR 75, we have two destroyed in the movies and one in the book, and it's an anothers, I'm sure.
 * The other Hammerhead being destroyed is on page 225/226 in the novel --Lewisr (talk) 14:27, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * In which chapter of the novel?--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 14:49, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * 19 --Lewisr (talk) 14:51, August 28, 2017 (UTC)