Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Jedi Tower

Jedi Tower

 * Nominated by:  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  09:28, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments: I make a return to the FAN after too long with this, the Jedi academy of Taris. It actually turned out to be quite an interesting article to write and hopefully it will be the same to read.

(0 Inqs/2 Users/2 Total)
Support
 * 1) Great work, Nayayen.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 13:28, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) We got there! Good stuff. Thefourdotelipsis 14:45, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

A few for you&hellip;

 * Intro: I would like to see the Neo-Crusaders mentioned in the intro.
 * Added, I've also mentioned them in main body.
 * Intro: Gadon Thek and context on him should be mentioned in the intro, where it says that Gryph arrived to evacuate Carrick and Jelavan.
 * Added, I haven't mentioned the Hidden Beks though, it doesn't seem necessary.
 * Early teaching: Now that John Jackson Miller has established for sure that Squinquargesimus was not a part of Malak's name, I feel you should take the surname out.
 * Removed.
 * Early teaching: For Revan, you might want to mention that he was Alek's "honorary" Master, since that is what the handbook says. Also, please capatalize "Master".
 * Done, I've checked all other instances of Master for capitalization.
 * In Mandalorian hands: I think you should mention that Griff Vao was Mission's older brother.
 * Done, I had to tweak those two sentences a bit so that it flows well.
 * Great job, Nayayen. When this passes, will this article be the first on building to pass the FAs?--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 00:43, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review Kasra. I can count at least 6 building FAs, one of which is a Jedi academy so this isn't even the first one of those FAd.  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  10:42, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 04:32, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

And one more thing&hellip;

 * You might want to source Alek's name to #10 or the Handbook, because in #0 he merely introduced himself as "Squint". I would think you only need to source the name to this on this one mention.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 04:32, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it.  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  08:45, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Attack of the Clone

 * "The atmosphere control complex was set away from the nearby residential buildings and other structures which meant that, to access the Tower, a skybridge was built." It's rather unclear what you're trying to say here. Do you mean that the control complex's isolation from the nearby buildings required a skybridge to be built to access it? If so, you might consider using that wording instead.
 * Fixed
 * Please watch your semi-colon usage. While I've fixed this issue for you, semi-colons are only used to join two standalone clauses together.  CC7567  (talk) 09:32, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "It was in this chamber that the Council executed their Padawans on the grounds that they were protecting the galaxy from the Sith." This historical reference is much more relevant to the History section than the Description section. Please try to keep the two isolated and distinct from each other.
 * Removed
 * I meant the entire reference, basically. I can see how it may be notable to say that the room was where the Padawan Massacre took place, but overall, the Description section should be primarily reserved for stuff relating to the actual structure of the building&mdash;anything else that takes place in it is what the History is used to list.  CC7567  (talk) 09:32, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed.  NAYAYEN : TALK 15:44, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Zayne Carrick, the only Padawan to survive, fled this room by diving down the turbolift tower and escaping through the storage room to the landing area." Same issue as above.
 * I assumed you meant the "only Padawan to survive" bit, the other part highlights a route from the room to the landing area.
 * First of all, no, that is context necessary to the article and shouldn't be removed, but let me clarify this part. Can you simply say that the tower had a turbolift? That seems to be the only part of the sentence that is specifically relevant to the structure of the tower, not its history.  CC7567  (talk) 09:32, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * In that case, the sentence is redundant. Removed.  NAYAYEN : TALK 15:44, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The image placement in "The Padawan Massacre" section is a bit strained, as ideally there should only be an image every few paragraphs or so or one per section, whichever comes first.
 * Removed the second of the two.
 * Please fix that Fact tag in the article.
 * Fixed
 * In the second paragraph of the "Padawan Massacre" section, please try to maintain a neutral perspective of the massacre rather than simply following Jelavan's POV. It's more proper to simply write it chronologically rather than as if it were through Jelavan's eyes.
 * I can't see any way to make it more neutral than it is now.
 * Can you simply say that the Masters planned to execute their Padawans in the Tower based on their vision and continue from there? That's how all non-character articles should essentially be written.  CC7567  (talk) 09:32, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've reworded it as much as possible. It is vital to note that Jelavan noticed Draay's lightsaber and spoke out because that is why the Masters had to strike prematurely and hence enabled Carrick to escape.  NAYAYEN : TALK 15:44, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I will continue with "In Mandalorian hands" once these are fixed. Overall, I'd like you to be a bit stricter on what is relevant to the Jedi Tower itself and what is not. While yes, context is necessary to understand the storyline, extraneous context is not&mdash;this article should be primarily about the tower and not anything else. Much of the Padawan Massacre section itself is affected by this problem. Please go through the article to make sure that every detail is directly relevant to the Jedi Tower and those that are not are absolutely necessary as context.  CC7567  (talk) 22:55, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for you review CC. I'll go through and see if anything can be trimmed out, probably with the second opinion of someone else as familiar with the comics.  NAYAYEN : TALK 08:58, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see virtually no mention at all of the Jedi Tower anywhere in the second and third paragraphs of "In Mandalorian hands" except in the latter paragraph, and that still doesn't show much. This should be a major indicator to irrelevant context. Please verify the necessity of all this extraneous information. As such, the next two objections depend on whether the parts including them are kept or not.
 * I've tried to compress the two issues' worth of context into a single paragraph so it still isn't mentioned much but this should be okay now.  NAYAYEN : TALK 14:20, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Fortunately for the Jedi": POV. It isn't up to us to decide what is "fortunate" for a group and what is not.
 * Neutralized.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Context on Del Moomo.
 * Added it on his first mention and moved the link to there as well.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please try to clean up the crowded image placement in "The Resistance strikes back."
 * One of the images has been removed.  NAYAYEN : TALK 14:20, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it possible for the context in the first paragraph of the same section to be shortened at all? I understand that context on the Tower operation is necessary, but if the Tower isn't actually used in the section, the amount of detail is questionable.
 * Trimmed as much as possible.  NAYAYEN : TALK 14:20, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * At a glance, the context seems fine to me, but at this point my Wookieepedia activity is temporarily dropping. Since this part of my review is mostly done, I'm going to let the others finish their reviews first before I go back and go through the article once more with you; this way, my objections won't hold up the nomination. You can expect another look from me once the others have finished, just so you know that I'm not abandoning this.  CC7567  (talk) 05:54, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up CC. I look forwards to your next review.  NAYAYEN : TALK 15:09, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * "that the Resistance had already managed to plant in the Tower's foundations in an earlier raid": link to the raid?
 * Stubtastic-length article created and linked.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * "These charges could not be used then as they did not have the remote detonator needed for a controlled explosion." When? The chronology isn't clear here because of the verb tense. Please clarify.
 * Clarified.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Insisting that Carrick was still dangerous": how so?
 * Reworded.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * "from the dark side in Carrick": can this be worded better at all? If not, please clarify how the "dark side" being in Carrick is different from basically every Jedi's temptation with it in some form or another.
 * Reworded.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * "which the patrol passed off as Carrick "recruiting"": please reword this awkward phrase somehow.
 * OS's Mandalorian euphemism, reworded.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I may be missing something here, but it really isn't clear how Carrick was able to avoid arising Gormer's and the Mandalorian patrol's suspicions. Please clarify.
 * Both should be clear now.  NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I again recommend that you try and go through the article to make sure that all the context in the article is absolutely necessary. While yes, context is needed to understand the storyline, this article is still about the Jedi Tower and nothing else. I will be going through the article one more time with you after all of these are fixed to make sure that everything is in good shape.  CC7567  (talk) 19:11, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've asked Cylka for her advice on the superfluous context. This objection and the first, fourth and fifth of your second batch of objections will be addressed when this is done. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 16:37, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't forgotten you objections CC. See my reply to 4dot's 09:02 timestamp. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 16:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole article has been trimmed. Sorry for the long wait. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 14:20, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ah-ha!

 * Does "Masters" need to be capitalized? I'd think it wouldn't, but I was just wondering if you had some sort of reasoning for this.
 * Never mind. Big mistakey. Thefourdotelipsis 09:02, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * The second paragraph of the intro should be tweaked, so that the Mandalorian invasion and Fett's occupation of the tower comes before Carrick's return.
 * Fixed. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 16:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * More to come later, I'm afraid I've run out of time a bit. ;) Thefourdotelipsis 01:44, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've looked a bit further into the issue of Alek's name, and although he was born under "Alek," and that was his true name, in the in-universe officialdom, he was listed and recognized as "Alek Squinquargesimus." I think that the article should reflect his full name, and use his surname accordingly. I don't mean this to conflict with any of the earlier objections, but the fact of the matter is that we should probably go with that the "official records" were. If anyone else wants to interject here and point out why we shouldn't be going with what was a character's official classification at a given time... feel free.
 * Removed below. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 16:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the detail about Alek saving Carrick and all that isn't relevant to the Tower's history. You should just give a brief overview saying that the students operating from the tower were crime-fighters or whatever, and cite a few brief examples.
 * Removed.<font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 16:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Far too detailed in your description of the Padawan Massacre. You shouldn't be giving detailed summaries of small events that happened to take place at the Jedi Tower without directly affecting the structure itself. This is true of much of the History section... you really need to cull through it and make sure that the information is about the tower, not about the things that might have happened in or around it. Let us know when you've done that and I'll take another shufti. Thefourdotelipsis 09:02, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It should be an appropriate level of detail now. I haven't had time to go past the third paragraph of "In Mandalorian hands" though. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 16:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is still a bit too much, on a cursory glance. "In the Council chambers above, Shad Jelavan was unusually late to the ceremony. After stowing his lightsaber in one of the racks, the Padawan noticed that all of the Masters had their lightsabers. This indicated that Carrick would also be Knighted and led to Jelavan and the Padawans asking why the Masters were planning to Knight Carrick, especially as he consistently failed assignments." - That kind of stuff is just way too specific. It should be more along the lines of "In such and such BBY, the covenant experienced a vision in which one of their Padawans would go gaga, and so they killed them during what was meant to be a knighting ceremony. Carrick, however, had been late, and witnessed the aftermath of the killings, before fleeing the Tower. The Covenant gave chase, and he was eventually brought back by Ying, and then one of his new companions, Jarael, burst in blah blah blah." That kind of level is what I'm looking for. Thefourdotelipsis 00:43, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've cut it down some more although I don't think that the intro-level summary you were suggesting would be beneficial. There are no more "detailed summaries of small events that happened to take place at the Jedi Tower", just summaries of important events in and affecting the Tower, with any unique details, as well as the context needed for those summaries/detail. I do realise that the final section seems to be more detailed but that's because there are a lot of small details that need mentioning. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 14:20, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * The earlier sections are markedly improved, good job. However, the later sections are still far too detailed. We don't need to go into the specifics of how the resistance is formed and who does what when they're not even near the tower. This needs to be made as concise as possible, and it's going to mean cutting a lot of the fat in these later sections. Thefourdotelipsis 14:37, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've cut the later sections to the level of the earlier ones, using them as a benchmark. They should all be good now. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 15:09, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * We're getting there, but we still need to lose a lot of flab. I realize it's difficult, as you've obviously put a lot of effort into this, but the thing is the LOD that we've got here is more suited to a character article, where the specifics of their actions had direct impact and reflect who they are as characters. But what we're dealing with his the overall history of a structure. The strokes have to be much, much broader. Essentially, what you've got in six paragraphs needs to be handled in... three, at most. First off, you don't need to cover every single movement of what goes on inside the tower. You don't need to explain every single twist in the confrontation between Jelevan, Tey, and Carrick. Also, you need to maintain an objective point of view with this, so you have to mention that the Mandalorians left the tower before the Resistance gets there. That sort of thing. I'm more than willing to make the cuts myself, and then you can take a look at it and work from there, but I understand fully if you don't want that. But do let me know if you want some help with this, as I realize it's going to be perhaps a tad painful. Thefourdotelipsis 23:46, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Chack Jadson
"Since 3,969 BBY, there were five students at the Tower, one to each of the Masters." This doesn't read right. Just "since" and "well" don't fit well together. Does that make sense?  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 00:21, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, after deciphering your typo :P. I've reworded that line, have a butcher's. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 15:09, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

 * I've changed the two quotes involving just two speakers from some form of to  per Tranner's comment below for Luuke.  Nayayen &mdash; TALK  22:36, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The links to the comics have been updated with the new, colon-included article title format. <font face="Agency FB" size="3"> NAYAYEN : TALK 14:20, May 25, 2010 (UTC)