Talk:Clone Wars/Legends

Confederate Victory?
Where did someone get the idea that the Confederacy won the war? In every canon source I've seen, the Republic had driven the CIS to the Outer Rim, and it was only a matter of time until they were completely defeated. In fact, in RotS, Palpatine was going to be forced to stand down his emergency powers as the war was effectively over. Why does it say that the Confederacy had complete temporary victory?--Reinfire 20:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

An idea to shorten the article.
As it stands, this article is unquestionably way too long. The reason, in effect, is it attempts to disseminate nearly every single campaign, siege, local conflict, battle, skirmish, and dramatic rescue in a three-year period of galaxywide war. Here's my proposal: why not move the timeline from Timeline of the Clone Wars here, create a new article called Detailed timeline of the Clone Wars or something to that effect, and paste all the information we have now into that? An article on a war doesn't need to detail every single explosion in the entire conflict, look at any articles on wars on Wikipedia for proof. What we have now is basically a timeline anyway, so why not move the ocean of extraneous information to its own article? --Thetoastman 23:54, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think this article should be set more like the article on the Yuuzhan Vong War were it contains a list of the major battles instead of explaining every detail in the battles like this one does. It could also be more set so that it would show the tide of the war instead of once again showing every detail. If people want more details, they can go to the timelines of battles for the clone wars. If no one minds, I'll start drawing up a plan for the new article.


 * I agree (not sure who you are, however, you didn't sign...), the Yuuzhan Vong article is set up much better than this one. What we need is an overview of the tides of conflict, not a month-by-month recap of what every single Jedi was doing.  --Thetoastman 03:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

CompassionateGeneral?
What is the source for the first image on this page? It has a little resemblance to the image farther down the page with the Dark Jedi (which was stated below as from a WotC sourcebook). I absolutely love this painting, and I'd love to know the artist, and ideally be able to get a print of it!
 * Answering my own question. It is in fact from a WotC book, the Galactic Campaign Guide, and the artist is Marc Sasso.  Here is a link to his gallery with the image. - r0bman

Galactic Civil War
Does the Galactic Civil War really start as soon as the Clone Wars end? Our page here even says the Galactic Civil War starts roughly around 0BBY. I think this should be amended. --SeanR 11:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it's hard to say. I agree that the Galactic Civil War, as formally declared by the Rebel Alliance, did not start until several years after, although resistance groups (like the Talz) began fighting almost immediately after the installation of the New Order. It would probably be a safe bet to have it begin with the formal declaration, but the exact date on that is unclear. --SparqMan 14:28, 30 May 2005 (UTC)


 * The article states that the Galactic Civil War started at the start of the Jedi Purge/end of Revenge of the Sith. It is understood that people were beginning to have rebellious ideas (i.e. the doings of Bail Organa, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Yoda), but is this truly the beginning of the rebellion against the Empire?  Wouldn't the formal date of the rebellion be some time shortly after Revenge of the Sith, but quite some time before A New Hope?--SOCL 02:25, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Some people are inaccurately lumping together the Galactic Civil War (ie Rebels vs. Empire) with the Great Jedi Purge (Empire vs. Jedi) and the Clone Wars. (Republic vs. CIS). For simplicity sakes, I say we have the Clone Wars as 22 - 19 BBY, the Purge 19 BBY - 0 BBY, and the GCW as 0 BBY - 19 ABY. This what most EU publications have, anyway. QuentinGeorge 11:35, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The game Star Wars: X-Wing has small scale engagements which occur between the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance which occur before 0BBY. -- Falmarin 00:53, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The Galactic Civil War definitely began before 0BBY. In ANH the bases on Dantooine Leia refers to "have been abandoned for some time". Also the recovery of the X-Wing prototypes, the numerous defections.... I highly doubt it occurred in a single year. But, I would also doubt that the war would begin immediately/shortly after the Jedi Purge. I guess I'm not an expert but you would think, given the size of the Alliance to Restore the Republic during it's formation, it could not have possibly survived open rebellion even hiding in the shadows. I believe it would have been crushed immediately due to the huge nationalistic burst at the end of the war. Just my opinion. OompaLoompa of DOOM 02:35, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the actual formation of the Alliance (Corellian Treaty) would signify the official rebellion against the Empire, and thus the start of the war. But I don't think there's really an official date - Kwenn 20:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

A resource
Just wanted to point out this site [] as an extremely handy resource for Clone Wars stuff- including a timeline. --Fade 10:47, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Or just copy what I pulled out of that site and put on the List of battles page, and put it here. -- Riffsyphon1024 17:14, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * There's also info on the Clone Wars in general, including in depth details about battles and characters --Fade 18:08, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

First Galactic Civil War?
Could the Clone Wars be considered the First Galactic Civil War? I'm not advocating a name change here, but it does meet the criteria for a civil war. And the names Confederacy of Independent Systems and Grand Army of the Republic seem to imply that the American Civil War influenced Lucas. -- SFH 00:54, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * The American Civil War is known by that name because the United States of America won the war, and from their perspective, the Confederate States of America was not a legal body, thus the conflict was internal. Perhaps if the Galactic Republic had not collapsed into the Galactic Empire, the Clones Wars would have been known as the Galactic Civil War. --SparqMan 06:14, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * If the CIS won it would have been the War of Independence, or perhaps, "The War of Republican Aggression". :) QuentinGeorge 06:43, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that was "Operation Iraqi Freedom". ;-) --SparqMan 09:25, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Any way the Clone War and the Galactic Civil War were influenced on World War 1 and World War 2 not the american civil war. Alexsau1991 19:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

New Essential Chronology
Anyone who has that should go through and make sure that all of the battles/events of the Clone Wars are included on this page. I'll try to do some of that later, maybe put up events here for more in-depth coverage--Erl

picture
What is the source of the picture near the top with the warrior with two sabers? And is it really meant to represent an event in the Clone Wars? Looks suspicious to me. - Angel Blue 451 00:03, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * It's from one of the WotC sourcebooks, so it's legit. QuentinGeorge 04:17, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Just making sure. - Angel Blue 451 20:20, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Revert?
May we please revert to the longer content list to fit the pictures? --Razzy1319 05:36, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Picture
Is the Sith character in the third picture wielding two lightsabers suppose to be Darth Sidious? -Stoll7234
 * Of course not. Just some Dark Jedi. --Master Starkeiller 11:54, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Assaj Ventress? --Anon80

Too long?
I have tried reading this article, and it's so long and complex it's mind boggling. I say more summarisation is needed, and perhaps the sections on the ORS, Coruscant, Utapau and Kashyyyk could be expanded. It's a daunting task to make this article even better, but I think it's needs to be done.

Begun construction. Any help would be appreciated. My edit went slightly wrong and...deleted...half the page.


 * Seriously. I think the problem is that people focus too little on the big picture and too much on the individuals.  Sure, Anakin chased Ventress to Yavin 8 and fought her one-on-one.  But does that matter even an inkling in the big scheme of the war?  No.  Just because there's a story about it and that story takes place during the same era as the Clone Wars doesn't mean that it's necessarily a major conflict or even that it should be mentioned at all.  --Thetoastman 00:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Number of Clones

 * In the movie Attack of the Clones Lama Su says that 200000 are ready with a million more well on the way and if you need more you will need to order them they take time to grow. the war lasted three years not enough time to grow new batches so how could the Republic fight the war when the droids have supperier numbers like the 3690 million droids that escaped from Geonosis and the droids built after that? User:Lucky (talk)
 * You have to remember, ounce for ounce, bone is 5 times stronger than steel. Droids could be shot down quickly and in massive numbers, while clones could take a few hit before they went down. Lord vader1414 20:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)]]
 * Yeah, but unfortunately all the important parts aren't made of bone. ;)  The clone troopers relied more on their creativity to fight a superior droid force rather than just ability to take damage.  Sentient beings, as the clones were, are far more intelligent than any mechanical ones.  --Thetoastman 00:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You have to remember, Sidious created the war, and Sidious controlled it. So it's highly likely that he manipulated it to even it out for both sides. And I take issue with this whole 'clones are creative blah blah blah' thing. In the battlefield, there isn't much chance for creativity. You just have to survive. And anyway, it says in Shatterpoint that droids can react faster than any organic.-Unit 8311 10:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but droids had to be programed to take any action whatsoever. At least, in general they did. I mean, come on! How creative is YOUR computer? Not very. Without pressing keys and clicking links it dosent do much, am i right? And i realize that the important parts arent made of bone, i was just making a point. :) -Lord vader1414 19:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * My computer can process information millions of times faster than I ever could, and it can do thousands of calculations at once, for one. Unit 8311 10:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but humans have emotions, creativity. Just because a compy can process info fast, dosnt make it better. Who do you think PUT the info there in the first place? HUMANS! Over all, sentient beings are better. Besides, we shouldnt be talking about this here. This is something for a user talk section, not the clone wars. If you want to keep arguing, head over to my talk section. -Lord vader1414 21:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This has gone off topic, and this is a Wiki talk page, not a forum to discuss the effectiveness of droids or clones. --Sauron18 17:18 23 June 2006
 * THANK YOU Sauron18! At long last! Someone who agrees! I owe you one! -Lord vader1414 22:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Lord vader1414, I think he was talking about the clones being creative, of course droids aren't. --[[User:Russ3ll|Russ3ll]
 * I definitiely think that much of the numbers given are erroneous. Granted, the droids relied on superior numbers, and the clones relied on superior creativity, but by some of these ratios, the clones were outnumbered by several million to one.  There is absolutely NO WAY someone could win a war against those odds. 75.67.142.56 05:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Karen Traviss has said that the Clone Wars were more like the conflicts seen in the mid to late 20th century than a huge World War II style war of movement. In these conflicts, numerically inferior forces were known to beat technically and numerically superior forces. Look at the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 14:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Odd image
I noticed that in the JediStrikeForce.JPEG image, there is a jedi with a tiger's head. The head looks like it was photoshopped or something. Is there any aliens in the GFFA that looks like him, or is this a genuine case of vandalism?
 * Cathar --Razzy1319 01:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, it's canon. It's a Cathar.  The head looks a little odd in contrast, but the claws prove it.  --Thetoastman 00:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Dark Jedi Survivors
In the section involving Dooku's attempts to train several dark-siders it mentions that the only two in the list to survive were Quinlan Vos and Assajj Ventress. But wasn't Ventress killed by Anakin on Yavin IV during the cartoon. I could very well be wrong since the cartoons and the books don't agree with each other on several points.OompaLoompa of DOOM 02:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Ventress wasn't killed at Yavin. She appears in several comics and books later, with her last confirmed appearance in Obsession. - Lord Hydronium 02:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I really don't think this new infobox thing is very necessary. It just clogs up the article and anyway it's not been fully established just how many casaulties and strength both sides possesed. I want to get rid of it; anyone with me? -Unit 8311 12:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * i agree, i really don't like this, its not as streamlined as the old one, and also the image intro has gone, which really did improve the article. Jedi Dude


 * The War Template is standard for all conflicts now and basically every war has been revised to include it. There was a vote held a few weeks ago over whether to replace the image intro with the template, and the template won.  Therefore, I'm oretty sure it's going to stay.  --Thetoastman 23:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Civilian perception
Since the section I added makes some pretty broad claims about civilian mentalities on both sides of the war, I'm just going to say right now that everything in there is directly from canon, most notably the first chapter of the ROTS novelization and Shatterpoint. --Thetoastman 23:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Casaulties
What do you estimate the ammount of casaulties in the Clone Wars is? --24.247.126.44 05:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Niko?
Who in black holes is Niko? This appears to be some vandalism... Commander Darc 01:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 01:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Can I fix it? Or do you need it to "track" the guy? Commander Darc 01:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Six thousand?
I just want to know if there's a source for this comment in the Battle of Coruscant section:

The Jedi working with the clones fought bravely and about six thousand droids were lost in the battles that ensued

If 6000 droids really were lost, then the CIS must have had miniscule casualties given that Lord of War states the Seps had a hundred million droids on Coruscant. Can someone please tell me where this is from? Thanks. Unit 8311 16:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The original Clone War
This article is supporting the movie storyline... Has there been any thought as to posting an article about the "extended universe" Clone War? Because it is very different from this one.

In the extended universe storyline there were no grand armies of clones clashing against droids or such. Chouncelor Palpetine used clones to replace key members of the senate with clones that were programed to support him in his may legislative changes. By the time the Jedi found out about it, it was too late for them to do anything because they had already been declared traitors and manipulators of the people, made out to be the bad guys.

Garml Bel Ibles uncovered the cloning plot by bringing the dead body of the clone sent to kill him, to the senate chamber durring session. He was cast out as a the Clone, and hunted as a traitor. He escaped and shows up in "I Jedi" (I believe, though could be wrong"

I know there are people out there who know more about this than I do... but is is possible to include this infomation in the database?
 * Erm...what are you talking about? And could you sign your comments? Thanks. Unit 8311 16:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

SAGroup/Republic Youth Brigade
I have a question about SAGroup. According to 'Bassadro massacre' part it was formed by Republic. Is it correct? May be it was Republic Youth Brigade at first? --Darth Igel 15:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Main Pic
ok, so I know the main pic has been there forever and all, but I was thinking that maye we should have a picture that is a little more rounded. For instance, in the GCW pic, there is a stormtrooper front and center, but you can still see rebles in the background as well as X-Wings and TIEs. We should at least attempt to find a pic that shows both faction combatants in the war. I might suggest the cover art of Battlefront II. You can see the Jedi Generals on one side and Vader and the clones on the other, showing the war and its results in a nutshell. Id be fine if it wasn't the BFII cover, but if there is a better picture out there, let it be known (a picture incorperating Palpy in one way or another would work as well, seeing how this whole war was his little chess match with himself) Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy)  22:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Conflicting information...
In LOE, it says that the Republic was winning towards the end of the war. And in the ROTS novel, the characters and the intro clearly say that the Republic was loosing. Quote from the ROTS novel by Obi-Wan: ''No wonder we're losing. They're getting smarter''. Unit 8311 13:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that in the books. All other sources say that the Republic was winning though, and that the battle seemed to be a desperate strike by Grievous in an attempt to gain some ground. I always assumed the Republic was winning (and then the ROTS novel is wrong) because the CIS had lost all the Outer Rim worlds, although it was by design. Chack Jadson 18:55, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, one source says the CIS had prolonged the war only through sheer numbers, so I thought the Republic had gained control. Chack Jadson 18:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I also think that the ROTS ICS also implied heavily that the CIS was doing well...Unit 8311 20:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that Kenobi was simply referring to the Battle of Coruscant? That was when he made that quote, correct?  I understand that the Republic was owning the last section of the battle, but Skywalker and Kenobi had only just arrived on scene.  With the message they recieved from Windu saying that the Chancellor has been captured, I too would asume that meant we were loosing the battle...Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) [[Image:Sith_Emblem.svg|30px]] 17:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Er, I made a mistake with the quote. It's no wonder we're losing the war. Check the book if you don't believe me.Unit 8311 14:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats ok, I believe you, I too read the book. I also believe the Visual dictionary implied that the Republic was headed downwards as well.

After considering the contradicions, the reason may just be a difference in opinion as to what the term "losing" means. A galactic stalemate may be what Kenobi considers a loss...Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 20:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Kamino

 * Should we have a picture from the Battle of Kamino taken from a screenshot of Battlefront II?
 * AFAIK, no. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The Battle of Kamino was after the Clone Wars. That's why it wouldn't be very appropiate here. Unit 8311 16:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Um that was a screenshot from the Battle of Kamino in Battlefont I, which was during the Clone Wars. -LtNOWIS 14:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Sourcing?
Does anyone think that the sourcing template at the top is still necessary? Unit 8311 12:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

5.2 Factual correction
The article states that Shaak Ti survived the Clone Wars. Indeed that isn't so. In the deleted scenes from Episode III Grievous executes her in front of Skywalker and Kenobi.
 * Key word being 'deleted'. Shaak Ti is confirmed as surviving in the Force Unleashed game. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 12:59, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sarapin a major battle?
Should Sarapin be added to the list of major battles? I've always been under the impression that Sarapin was the one of the first major battles after Geonosis, and that the Republic could have lost the war, had Sarapin remained in CIS hands. 75.67.142.56 05:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds appropriate to me. -MPK 19:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Clone Wars fans and timeline experts, finish my work!
Trash compactor/List of Clone Wars appearances resulted in my making the old appearance list into a link to this article. I only added some of the appearances: I leave it to you to work out how to interweave the sources into chronological order. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 01:46, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Similarities
If we are going to compare starwars (god bless it) to real world events should we consider the clone wars to be like world war 1. After all WW1 was really in the longterm just a prelude to World war 2. Thanks. I cant get the tildes thing right so ill just put my name- King Maakel

Clone Wars Jedi casualties
Someone knows how many Jedi died in the Clone Wars ? If one wants to make a list, should it be included in this page or in a new page ? Dreossk | 21:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That already exists here. If you want casualties pertaining specifically to the Clone Wars, well, aside from numbers, which I'm sure don't exist, that would be rather useless and unhelpful, at least in my opinion. There were plenty of deaths in the Clone Wars of important figures, and to list only Jedi would not fit the spirit of the article, which does not focus solely on Jedi.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 22:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it would be great to have a list, with pictures of their death. [[Image:DreosskBlanc.jpg|20px]] Dreossk  | 00:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Once again, a list of Jedi only casualties does not belong on this article. And to list all major deaths would be impractical and confusing. A gallery of Jedi deaths is an even worse idea.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 22:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see that you edited your first post to provide a link to an existing link, thanks. [[Image:DreosskBlanc.jpg|20px]] Dreossk  | 22:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but most people are against such a thing.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 22:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

humanist picture
the picture in the civilian perspective section is a bit like empire propaganda putting the aliens on the separatist side and the human children on the republic soon to be empier

Movie?????????
Where does the Clone Wars movie fit into all this? From what I hear, we actually have no idea.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 13:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be your answer right there. As for now, the exact dates of the battles are unknown, though it can be assumed it occured just after the Battle of Rendili, where Asajj gave him the scar over his right eye. // ~mikah~  16:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Clone Wars or Clone War

 * this artical is called Clone wars, haveing the 's' at the end of it inplyes that it was multiple wars?, even though in sources such as the TV series 'called the Clone Wars' where it is actually named, when it is mentioned by yoda at the end of of 'Attack of the clones' Begun the Clone War has. Just thought id bring it up.

On some special features I heard Lucas calling a battle a "Clone War", and not a battle. Think about it, we call World War II a war, and it happened on 1 planet. So he thought that each battle should be called a war, because it engulfs the entire planet, and he couldn't call them battles because there were multiple fights on each planet. That's somewhat confusing. -RandomBattleDroid

wat happened to the droids
ok after the war there were alot of defective droids left over. Since Palpatine is even shrewder than hitler and obama combined did he use the left over droids to fill the imperial army? or a secrret police er something?

again just a theory is there anything to back this up?

Entire Rimward leg of the Rimma Trade Route
I've changed the bit that claimed that the entire rimward leg of the Rimma Trade Route was under Confederacy control. The sources tell us that Skor II remained loyal to the Republic, and despite losing its spaceport to CIS battledroids, was a staunchly Republic-allied world. I can add references for all this if people think it's necessary. ~ SavageBob 05:03, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Update.
Someone should update the page of the new Clone Wars episode cause it no one has done that since "Lair of grievous".--Butters4115 02:14, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

TCW
Takes place in 22 BBY, not 20-19 BBY, per Shipyards of Doom. Someone needs to change that. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 14:03, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Please note that the official site classified the show as an anthology jumping about the timeline. For example, in Mystery of a Thousand Moons Jaybo Hood undirectly states that the CIS has left Iego 9 months ago. That brings as almost to the point of 21 BBY, so I'd say it's true to view the series as spanning the entire conflict from now on. 14:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

TCW movie would probably take place right after the Battle of Hypori then. Considering after the battle Anakin was made a knight--Power courage wisdom and time 00:32, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Pre-Ahsoka

 * Should we consider the episodes that don't have Ahsoka in them as being before the battle of Teth. The only exceptions I can think of, would be the episodes that don't have Anakin, Obi-Wan, or Ahsoka at all. And I'm not sure about Rookiees. WILDEYE N-25 23:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Rookies and Ambush are the only ones without the slightest appearance of Ahsoka, however I think she is in those short comics that are before the show.--Power courage wisdom and time 23:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC)