Talk:Darth Caedus

Dark Lord of the Sith
Anybody have any idea why it says "Unkown, eventually succeeded by Darth Krayt" in this spot on the page? Krayt was already the Dark Lord/ Dread Lord of the New Sith Order by the time Jacen became Darth Caedus.Darth Nikolai 04:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I know why it's phrased like that. If the Rule of Two continues post-LotF, then there will be other Dark Lords before Krayt takes over and actually replaces the Rule of Two with the Rule of One. You're right in saying that Krayt is Dark Lord since c. 30 ABY, but he may not be the Dark Lord until 130 ABY. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 11:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So because Lumiya's Sith was a continuation of Bane's Order, until it dies out, Krayt can't be considered the Dark Lord? Well, okay I'll buy that I guess. But with Caedus' death and Tahiri's defection, Lumiya's (and therefore Bane's) Sith died. Unless we get a story that says Lumiya broke the Rule of Two and secretly had another apprentice the One Sith are the preeminent Sith faction in the galaxy making Krayt the Dark Lord. Hence, based on the information we have now, it shouldn't say "unknown, eventually..."Darth Nikolai 04:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose we'll find out. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 12:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember that we don't have any source were he proclaims himself the Dark Lord of the Sith in the LOTF. But he does eventually, hence eventually succeeded by Darth Krayt Steves490 20:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry for being off topic, but I've always wondered what exactly is the source for Krayt being the "Dread Lord"?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Its in Star Wars Legacy 1: Broken, Part 1 Steves490 20:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Pic of Caedus and Jaina dueling
Caedus has both arms in the pic, could this be the duel on Nickel One? He only had one arm when she dueled him the second and final time--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It'd have to be the duel on Nickel One. It's already used here. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 17:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. Just wanted to make sure.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Behind the Threat: The Sith
It should be mentioned somewhere on this article that Jaecn Solo is mistakenly called "Jacen Skywalker" in the Wizards of the Coast article. Also, the article says that Lumiya resurrected the Rule of Two, wouldn't this make Lumiya's Sith nothing more than a sect, and not a different organization, than the Rule of Two? Should the Lumiya's Sith article be merged with the Rule of Two article?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC) 12.179.11.22 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Lumiya's Sith has always been referred to as a continuation of Bane's order, but it was never actually given the blessing of member of the rule of two. It is her own seperate order. Lumiya just followed the same rules that worked so well for Darth Vader and his sith ancestors. Steves490 20:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Lumiya was trained in the ways of the Sith, at least to some degree, by Darth Vader, who was indeed a member of Bane's Order, and maybe she also received some training and knowledge from Darth Sidious, and from Vergere, who, while not a full fledged apprentice in the Order of the Sith Lords, was still a candidate or potential candidate for apprenticeship.--DarthKenny 09:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Still nothing official. It was always her own thing. Steves490 10:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Name of the Article
I think that the main name of the article should be "Jacen Solo," rather than "Darth Caedus." Darth Vader's page is "Anakin Skywalker"; based on the quick-redemption-before-death parallel, I feel that the title of the main page should be changed.
 * Look at Anakin's talk page to see why the name of the article is Anakin Skywalker. At the moment it's never actually said that Caedus was redeemed, only that Jania thinks he was. Oh, and please sign your comments with four tidles ( ~ ) - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 16:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Initially I was against the thought that he was redeemed right at the end. But after thinking about it for a while, I think that since Jaina thought he was redeemed then maybe that's how it should go. She was, after all, the one closest to him for his whole life, and she was present right when he died. Also, the argument could be used that the page should be named Jacen Solo for reasons other than that. I know that many won't like this idea, but it makes sense to me: Anakin Skywalker was known as Anakin Skywalker, not Darth Vader for a large portion of his life, even if many remember the man Darth Vader was more than Anakin Skywalker. The same argument could be made for Jacen. He did, in fact, spend the majority of his life as Jacen Solo, a "good guy". He was only Darth Caedus for a short time. So, it could also be concluded that even though he will be remembered by many as Darth Caedus IU, maybe for our OU references Jacen Solo would be more appropriate.I don't know. I'm betting everyone's gonna hate on me for that argument, but I'm entitled to my opinion, and technically, its never been stated one way or the other if he was redeemed. I don't really care either way, I just had an idea. -- Zadi ( Yack Track ) 16:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see why I should hate you for that, I want to make Wookieepedia as good as possible and please everyone in the process. But the reason Anakin's name is Anakin is because the book narration referred to him as Anakin (saying things such Anakin moved, Anakin drew a breath etc. etc.), and, I haven't actually read the book, but the impression I get is that the narration never referred to Caedus, only said that Jaina thought he was. Hopefully the next book will settle this properly. - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 17:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This was already discussed many times, look in the archives Steves490 17:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Look, Jaina said that he died as Jacen Solo. I don't know about you guys, but I think Jaina Solo is a pretty reliable source. Change it back to Jacen Solo.71.106.50.65 00:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC) The page should stay as Darth Caedus, but I think the author wrote the scene so you could interpret his actions as redemption if you wanted to. From the book, not exact: "The only attempt he made to save himself was to step back into the light." Drewton   ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, because it's only Jaina's POV on the matter. She might have said that she thought he died as Jacen only because that's what she wanted to happen. I read the book; I see no indication that he was redeemed. Thus, he died as Darth Caedus. This issue has been debated a couple times already, and the page hasn't been moved (nor will it be). Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 00:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We should not clutter up the talk page when the same exact argument has been made before, read the archives. Steves490 15:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but he might appear again and say he has returned while being a Force ghost. Jacen didn't die as a bad guy as we all know, so why condemn him to Heck? 12.179.11.22 23:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That may be the case. However, that is not the case right now. According to the last official source, Invincible, Jacen died as Caedus. See above discussion (as well as all of the archived discussion) for more. 02:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If he does return as a Force ghost and says he was redeemed, then the name of the article will be changed then, but for now it will stay as Darth Caedus  Jaina Leia Mara Jedi Knight
 * Frankly, even if he returns as a "redeemed" Force ghost, I don't think the article's name should change. He died as Darth Caedus - that's a fact. Becoming a Force ghost doesn't mean he was redeemed, unless he would say something along the lines of "I returned to the light before I died." Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 16:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, on that topic, what about Ajunta Pall then? He was a Sith Lord who died, and then was moved to the light as a ghost... though that in and of itself is confusing. 02:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Very thoughtful, man. I was thinking just the same way. Then we'd know he was truly Jacen again. Also, the book said that Jaina was holding Jacen's body when he died, not Caedus'. Remember? That would be a very important piece of info. What do you think? 12.179.11.22 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I quote from the book, page 264: "Then the blade reached Caedus's heart, and he dropped at her feet, and Jaina felt nothing at all." So no, that quote you provided is not an important piece of information. My quote proves he died as Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 22:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What I meant to say was that Jaina held her brother's body, which the book now moved to Jacen now instead of Caedus after he died. Remember? 12.179.11.22 06:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Having just read the ending of the book a few hours previously (Damned lousy Australian bookstores), they do refer to what happened as Jacen being "killed" by the Vong, and Caedus being what moved into the shell. The shift to "Jacens body" is a natural follow on from that: Caedus is dead and the shell, the body of Jacen, is what they were referring to. Given my reading of the events leading up to the final duel with Caedus, and his actions in that duel, my opinion is that his actions were not inconsistent with him still being Caedus at the end. He repeatedly justifies what he is doing to himself as him doing it for his daughter and others, and his last act, attempting to warn his daughter and lover, follows right on from that, especially given the urgency of the situation and the fact that Jaina had crippled him by that point. He knew he had lost, and instead of doing something inspired by simple revenge and hatred (Killing her back) he used the time to try and protect the reason he went dark. That just isn't redemption, merely a continuation of his original motives to go dark. It was not a happy ending. Wonderful :D --121.44.48.172 08:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You...sleemos! You vicious, heartless sleemos! Look what you've done to him! His last act was to save his daughter, and you come here with your petty, feeble pessimism and criticism, and you draw his name through the mud, this fine, honorable Jedi, whose boots you are not worthy to kiss. He gets betrayed by the Moff Council, goes to warn his wife and kid, and then shows Jaina and the rest of the Jedi that he truly came back by showing the end of their twin bond. Yet you still say he died as a Sith Lord!?!?! You dumb, half-wit numskulls! Oh, it makes me mad... mad! And that's what I bring for a fact. Thank you. 131.109.225.39 19:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope you're just joking. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Just get off the wiki if you're not going to be serious about this. State proof of redemption or shutup. Steves490 20:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm dead serious! about this, all right! Han might've said Jacen would've killed Jaina if he let him live, but Jacen chose not to! He must've been sick of killing family members and Isolder's death wasn't his fault. He just snapped, that's all. Gone mad! If he remained a Sith Lord, how come he warned Tenel Ka and Allana? HUH?!?!? He killed two family members, like Vader killed Owen and Beru, then returned to the light to save his offspring, like grandpa Anakin saved Luke from Sidious. Guess what, Lumiya? When you said Jacen would be the Sith his grandpa wasn't, you didn't actually expect him to remain dark, did you? HA HA!!! How's that for proof, Mr. Smarty-Pants? 198.7.229.2 15:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Its hard to take you seriously when you're acting so childish. And as for your "proof", Caedus joined the sith in the first place to protect Tenel Ka and Allana so how is protecting them before death a symbol of change, and also he never rejected the dark side. If you would actually read the archives instead of cluttering up the talk page you would have seen the exact same useless arguments being made by users like you who haven't read the book closely enough or not at all. Steves490 19:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Discuss the topic all you want, but the next person who disrupts the page or makes a personal attack in my or another admin's opinion is getting a block. I've warned two people about the importance of not insulting others already, and it's getting a bit out of hand. Please be civil. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 19:28, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What about Palpatine? Or Dooku? They were never redeeemed. Why shouldn't they be called Darth Sidious / Tyranus? This should be moved to Jacen Solo. This has been discussed many times, but it doesn't mean we can't discuss it again. 16:24, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Palpatine and Dooku were never ever known by their Sith names publicly. The only ones who ever knew anything were these two guys themselves. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 16:55, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * By the end of his life He was known publicly as Caedus which matched his Sith status, The people, military and jedi including Luke Skywalker called him Caedus, His own parents stated that the man who was Jacen was dead and didn't agree with what Jaina said about him after his death. He is called Caedus not Jacen in his most up to date appearances Millennium Falcon (novel) and Star Wars Legacy 18: Claws of the Dragon, Part 5 Steves490 00:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Dudes  Vader  was  never   reedemed,he  oly  did  that  for  his  son,So  if  he is  anakin  he  is  Jacen
 * It's been decided that Vader was indeed redeemed at the end by several, several, several sources, so the first part of your argument is moot. Furthermore, it has been decided several times before that the page stays at Caedus. Get over it. 16:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, early copies of Millenium Falcon contain numerous references to Jacen Solo, and none to Caedus. I think it's time for this to get changed.
 * from what I've read so far they don't say he's redeemed. Steves490 22:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The main argument I would put against it is that as the majority of his life he was Jacen Solo then that should take precedence over his name when he died. Rayn3000 03:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)Rayn3000
 * Please read the archives. I say this even though I know you Jacen people will never ever be happy, if the name is ever changed the Sith infobox should remain, it seems to be made clear so far in the book that he never turned back to the light, he died a SITH. But that reinforces the argument of keep his name Caedus, THE ARGUMENT CONTINUES!! Steves490 18:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The issue isn't redemption--in Millenium Falcon, it's implied that it's still somewhat up in the air. The issue is, in-universe sources refer to the character as Jacen Solo, not Darth Caedus. So when Millenium Falcon is put into general release, this needs to be changed.
 * Everybody in universe knows he was a Sith and died as one. His friends and family call him Jacen because its like Harry Osbourn calling his Dad Green Goblin, It's just not comfortable. What is Jadak told about the war by the common people? A Jedi Knight took up the teachings of the Sith and had a short reign of terror before he was killed. That's what the galaxy sees him as. Also how am I supposed to take your argument seriously if you don't even use the wiki correctly, SIGN YOUR POSTS Steves490 18:50, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

-He did spend more time as Jacen than as Caedus. Perhaps, if as the statements of "Jacen died with the Vong" and "Caedus died by Jaina's hand" are true, then there should be one article for each entity linked to each other. ~Anon.
 * My issue with the name of the article has to do for pretty much a spoiler reason. I understand Wookieepedia's policy of when warnings about spoilers should be removed.  However, I'm of the opinion that Jacen Solo's transformation into Darth Caedus is one of the biggest events happening to a specific character in the EU.  More importantly, we aren't given any hints of this transformation until at least halfway through the New Jedi Order series.  Prior to that, we all thought that Jacen would just be another one of those pure "guiding-light" Jedi based on his track record, and the EU sources portraying him as such far outweigh his sources where he is becoming Darth Caedus.  Many people are still making their way though the plethora of EU material that takes place after RotJ, despite how many of us on Wookieepedia have read everything already.  I even have a few friends in this situation.  They are steadily reading many of the big novels in chronological order (X-Wing, Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy, etc..), and know Jacen Solo as the good boy he used to be.  Now, when they visit Wookieepedia out of curiosity, they see the Jacen Solo described in big letters as "Darth Caedus".  This pretty much ruins any surprises and interesting discoveries in the future as they read the later EU novels. I realize that is the nature of the encyclopedia, and they are warned that all the information contained on the Wiki is essentially a spoiler.  But, like I said before, the Jacen Solo -> Darth Caedus situation is phenomenally huge and important, and in my opinion, the biggest spoiler of the entire Post-RotJ Expanded Universe.  As such, I think the title of the article should be 'Jacen Solo' as a courteous gesture to the fans out there who have not experienced his story yet.  Yes, this breaks the rules.  But I don't think the rules should be so black-and-white all the time, especially when the author leaves his light/dark status at the end purposely ambiguous (as evidenced by the pages of discussion on this already, which I will not get into).  Nothing else in the article should be changed, even the the short summary at the top of the page.  Just the title.  --Xarathion 17:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * According to that logic, we should also have flashing warnings for the Luke/Vader revelation. And don't forget Luke/Leia. Why not throw a bunch of flashing lights on Revan's and Bastila's page while we're at it? There's a spoiler warning on the front page. That's more then enough. If someone is honestly that stupid to go to an online encyclopedia without fulling reading the material upon which that encyclopedia is based, then they shouldn't be complaining. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 17:20, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * May I add that as a first-time visitor in the Wook, I remember the first thing I noticed was the spoiler alert. It's just impossible to miss, and that's good. Nanook 21:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think because he was born Jacen Solo, that's what the article should say. How he died is of no concern in my opinion.  Maybe put "as Darth Caedus" in the "Death" spot.  Oh, and I do believe he never officially changed his name, he just asked people to call him Darth Caedus instead, so wouldn't his name sill "officially" be Jacen Solo?  I'll put Irek Ismaren as example of someone who died dark as Lord Nyax but the article is Irek Ismaren, his birth name.  At least as I'm writing this, for all I know someone could go change it, I will tell you that I did not.  We could always compromise--you know, that thing where no one is happy--and call the article "Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus", Or "Jacen (Darth Caedus) Solo."  This is a HUGE argument, and--as of this writing--there is no hard evidence to support either side.  Hopefully something will come into canon to sort it out.  Sorry to add to the mess, but I had to express my opinion with my evidence as flimsy as it may be. Sincerely, Allana Solo 04:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Oops! I was just reading the Manual of Style where it says a later name is prefered over a previous name.  That would mean it does matter who he died as.  That would mean that as it is ambiguous as of now, it should probably stay Darth Caedus unless it is revealed canonically that he died as Jacen.  I still don't like it, but as this is a fact, I can't do anything about it.  My honest mistake! Allana Solo 05:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Now im really confused. I mean the reason why is becaue, Darth Sidious was never reedemed hell he was never even good! Yet his article is still named Palpatine Should his be changed since he died as Darth Sidious? if not then why should Jacen have Darth Caedus as his article name?-- 23:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Palpatine is called Palpatine because everyone in the Empire knew him as Palpatine. The name he was known as last is the name used and he was using Caedus as his name at the end of his life. Therefore, the name should stay Darth Ceadus. Also, this discussion has been closed for 2 months. Please do not ressurect it again. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 00:09, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I realize I'm responding to a post from over three months ago, but I have to say something. I disagree with your reasoning. First of all, hardly any of the normal citizens of the Empire knew him as Palpatine. He was called The Emperor by everyone, even to the point that his original name is not mentioned in the movies, and it wasn't even declared until after the Trilogy was made (I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't decided that his name was Palpatine until Timothy Zahn wrote Heir to the Empire, but I can't find it). Second, Palpatine's name, by Sith tradition, is Darth Sidious, not Palpatine. Palpatine was simply what he went by for public reasons, since, as far as I know, being a Sith was still illegal in the Galactic Republic. So your argument for calling him Palpatine is flawed. And as for the Manual of Style reasoning, here is the whole line from that page: "The titles of articles about individual characters should be the name by which the character was most commonly known in the the Star Wars universe, with later names preferred to earlier names, and full names preferred to partial names or nicknames. Titles, such as military ranks or titles of nobility, should be omitted." I personally think we should call the article Jacen Solo, simply because that has to be how the public thought of him, considering he really only had the name of Caedus for three months at the most. It really doesn't matter what his friends and close family called him, his legal name, and the name he is most well known as, is Jacen Solo. (For the record, I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just stating my opinion.) Joshuaingram 18:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

not trying to start the arguement over again but what makes him attempting to warn his daughter and lover any different from Anakin saving luke from being killed. Anakin became a sith to save his wife and unborn child and Jacen did so to protect his daughter and lover? not taking any sides just wondering.Darthwin 21:32, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Because Vader renounced the dark side, Caedus didn't. Also if you read the book you know that he would have had Tenel Ka killed if Allana wasn't onboard the Dragon Queen. Steves490 00:20, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ultimately, it comes down to which side the wiki-nazis are on. 129.107.81.12 01:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * To be fair to those arguing it should be changed to Jacen; to those who only read the Wiki we do appear to be pretty inconsistent with our Darth articles. It always seems to come down to an excuse for why someone shouldn't follow the rules, eg: Tyranus is Dooku, Sidious is Palpatine, Vader is Anakin Skywalker... It seems inconsistent in my mind too, so I don't blame anyone for arguing the point; I just don't argue the point myself because I know the current consensus on the issue. &mdash;  beeurd  talk 05:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * We should have a different naming convention. For all Sith Lords whose real names are known, that real name should be the article name. So Palpatine's character page is "Palpatine" and not "Darth Sidious", and Malak's page should be "Malak" (which was his actual name) rather than "Darth Malak". However, for someone like Darth Plagueis whom we don't know the real name to, it should just be "Darth Plagueis". This wiki is not made for an in-universe audience, so I think it only makes sense that important central characters not be relegated to a mere "Darth status" --Lalala la 03:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly certain that, in the case of Anakin, Lucas says he was redeemed and in that case it doesn't matter what anyone (in-universe or out) thinks. Further evidence of him being Anakin is Lucas inserting Hayden Christensen into ROTJ explaining that a person reverts to their true self when they become one with the Force. I also recall something saying a dark sider wouldn't have the required self-less love to become a Force-ghost.
 * I think the article should be called 'Jacen Solo' because of spoiling reasons. If anyobdy has not read the LoTF books and is just browsing the website they will probably land here, looking for Leia's kids maybe. And just the title alone would spoil Jacens whole story.
 * This has been discussed already. Just scroll up for a few seconds. Also if you would read the notice at the top of the page, you would see that this topic is not up for discussion at this time. Steves490 03:05, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I really think it's totally inconsistent... Sidious died as Sidious, but his page is Palpatine because that's how he was better known, but Vader's page is title Anakin despite being better known as Vader (especially considering most people didn't know they were the same individual). Tyranus is Dooku because he was best known as Dooku, but he died as Tyranus. I dunno. It's confusing. I could care less, just be consistent. 98.245.249.137 17:17, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Why does everyone say Jacen died a Sith? he spent his last moments saving Tenel Ka and his daughter rather than using it to defend against Jaina. Jaina even says that he was Jacen again when she killed him. The article name obviously isn't going to be changed, but it really should be.
 * Read the statement at the top of the page, and if you want to be taken seriously then sign your posts. Steves490 20:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Novel
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/a/ac/JacenOnimi.jpg

What novel does this appear in? (not the image, the event)Thanks JediNTT307 19:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC) ThanksJediNTT307 01:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force Steves490 00:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The event occurs in The Unifying Force of the NJO series -- Zadi ( Yack Track ) 15:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

"despite being one of the more powerful Knights of the New Jedi Order" change to "most"

Abilities
Under abilities, it references the end of the Unifying Force, saying: "...achieving perfect balance between the light and dark sides. The result was possibly the most powerful use of Force Light ever known..." This is obviously wrong, since Force Light is a manifestation of the Light Side of the Force. I think the line about Force Light should be removed, because it is clearly conjecture (and wrong at that).

I wanted to change something, but, in the interest of respect, I will put it here first. Under Abilities, the article says this in reference to his empathic ability: After being implanted by a slave seed by Vergere and later having it removed, Jacen learned to modify his existing empathic ability (which appeared to exist outside the Force) to sense and influence the previously Force invisible Yuuzhan Vong and their biological constructs. According to Traitor, pg. 70-71, Jacen, speaking to himself, says: "The Yuuzhan Vong aren't the only ones who participate in a part of the Force that is outside the range of Jedi senses. I do, too." Then the author says, "What if his empathy came from a part of the Force that he could still touch?" I want to remove the (which appeared to exist outside the force) line to (which appears to have only been felt by those Jedi that the Yuuzhan Vong had tortured or tampered with), seeing as how Tahiri also had a "Vongsense" in The Unifying Force. Joshuaingram 19:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Quote for Dark Lord section
I'm going back through older Star Wars stories and I'm currently reading Dark Tide II. There's a line in it that Jacen thinks to himself that seems extremely reflective of his future. "Responsibility for others could blind me to my responsibility within the Force." Page 156 if anyone wants to double check me. I think that would be a great lead-in quote for one of the of the sections. Anyone agree? --Rubiksphere 08:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that would be a fantastic quote for the personality section. The one we have now is an insult. But that quote explains why/how he fell Steves490 19:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Why he turned dark
I'm a little confused. Did Lumiya took advantage of Jacen or something to turn him to the dark side like Palpatine? Like when she showed him his grandpa's reasons for becoming Vader? Why couldn't he just put his family history behind him and stay light? Can anyone tell me!?!?! DarthWill3 20:42, 28 September 2008 (UTC) A. read the article B. read the LOTF series C. go to theforce.net fourms Steves490 21:19, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * you can

Jacen saving the galaxy?
So at the end of LotF series it said Jaina realized that Jacen had accomplished his mission by brining the galaxy peace. My question is how? From what I got from reading the series all he did was destroy planets and caused others to join the rebellion. At the end it just seemed like he failed and that in the final battle he didn't accomplish any thing but led to the moffs getting captured which up into the last two books didn't really play a part in the galatic war. Can someone please explain? 1. Stopped terrorism on Coruscant 2. Saved Coruscant from another bombardment see Mission to Vulpter 3. United the Galaxy against him, when he died, that simply leaves a united Galaxy (Jaina's Main Thought) 4. Saved Allana and Tenel Ka's life during Battle of Shedu Maad 5. Scored many victories vs. Confederation who nobody liked.
 * Well lets look at the few good things that Darth Caedus did

among others. But I think #3 is what Jaina really meant. Steves490 20:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

- One thing that really confuses me is that..like...what troopers/ships are they using? is he using stormtroopers and death stars, or something else? this who "after the battle of endor" starwars is confusing... 92:52 PM, October 25


 * First, sign all of your comments. Second, the answer to your questions are in the Darth Caedus and Second Galactic Civil War articles. I now it's a huge galaxy to keep up with but after reading this wiki constantly you will eventually get it. If you have any more questions go to my talk page instead of using up space on a disussion page that doesn't really have much to do with your question. Steves490 01:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

--202.164.202.79 12:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)Even though in the end, Jacen didn't fix the galaxy at all...The Confederation was still there. The galaxy was still in turmoil. The series didn't clean up the lose endings which started it. In the end the series was just an excuse to get Jacen to turn to the dark side. --202.164.202.79 12:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

The only turmoil in the galaxy after Jacen's death was the Force Psychosis and the rift between the Jedi and Daala Tyranitar 11:10, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Jedi Consular?
I know that after the Jedi Purge the definitions of Guardians and Consulars became more-or-less moot, but my own categorical brain can't help but try to place every Jedi under a single category. So from what I've read of Jacen, I wonder whether he is a Consular as opposed to a Guardian. He certainly exhibits all of the trademarks of a Force specialist. Is there any source to confirm his Jedi class? Darth Raivon 17:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hes given the category of Gurdian on the page but it's difficult to say. He could be a consular with amazing lightsaber skills like yoda or he could be a gurdian with amazing force power like anakin. But if I remember correctly a Sith Lord is the Sith version of a Jedi Consular according to KOTOR right? Steves490 17:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that "Sith Lord" is a generic title for all Sith apprentices and masters. I believe that Jacen was a Consular because of his inclination towards learning and expanding his Force abilities, which is the goal of all Consulars. Anakin was more into lightsaber combat, even though he possessed more power than most. Like Yoda though, Jacen was an extremely skilled duelist, which is no surprise when you consider his lineage. Oh yeah; he also carries a green lightsaber, which is another nod to my theory (although Jedi of that era had no care for class conformity and chose whatever colour they desired). Darth Raivon 20:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right. One piece of evidence for a consular is his five year journey of force exploration. Evidence of being a guardian is that he trained Jedi in the arts of lightsaber combat such as Nelani Dinn. But I'm leaning toward Consular. Caedus was known by most Jedi as being someone extremely talented in force powers which I believe was said by Jaina in Invincible. I would like to know what is the source for him going under the category of a guardian though. Steves490 02:34, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

There isn't any evidence of him being a Guardian. Everything points towards him being a Consular, IMO. I also think he was an Ataru practitioner, given that his lightsaber form incorporated a lot of spins and force acrobatics. Darth Raivon 22:34, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He is a Jedi Guardian according to the New Jedi Order Sourcebook. Look on the Guardian article.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:05, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry for continuing this discussion (though it's not *that* old), but wouldn't he be a Sentinel since he displays a very good balance? Plus, he's immune to pain, etc. which are characteristics of KotOR Sentinels, anyway (immunity to fear, insanity, and stuff like that, as opposed to the force jump or higher force powers thing). I don't know. He displays really high in both categories, but he seems to use force powers more than his lightsaber, but is a bit more brash like a guardian, yet is 'immune' to a lot of things like a Sentinel... Not that I'm an expert. Xanofar 21:52, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Consular seems more true to Jacen than Guardian. He was obsessed with developing his force powers (hence his 5 year odyssey to learn new powers) and it was picked up on by many- notably his brother- during the Vong War. But obviously, if the New Jedi Order Sourcebook says that's wrong then it is. Seems strange though. Tyranitar 11:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Actual pronunciation
Can anyone post the actual pronunciation of "Caedus" in IPA? I assume the current [kie-duss] means rhyming with "pie" and "puss", in other words, similar to real-life reconstructed Latin with an American accent but I want some clarification on that. The current form seems to misleadingly suggest itself to be legitimate IPA, which I very much doubt unless there's some official confirmation; if it really were, the orthography is rather odd.--Miguelprado 19:48, 25 December 2008 (UTC) 65.24.144.77 18:23, 31 August 2009 (UTC) According to Leland Chee's blog, it's pronounced kie-duss, rhyming with 'hide us.' In IPA, this would be written as /'kajdəs/ or /'kaidəs/. It does in fact rhyme with "hide us." The name is derived from the latin word caedo, caedere, meaning "to cut, kill, or slaughter." Also, it is pronounced this way in the CDs. --Lord Darth Caedus 20:59, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * By my understanding it's pronounced [kay-duss]. Caedo, from which the name is derived, is pronounced [cay-do], so I go by that. Darth Raivon 01:32, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is pronounced just as the opening paragraphs say it's pronounced: "Kie'duss". I myself found the source for it.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 17:07, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * when you put to vowels side by side in a word the first one says its name and cancels out the second making it silent making the pronuciation (kay-dus) jedi_master425
 * then someone needs to go retake english class. ive asked mutliple english teachers at my school and they all say its pronounced "kay-duss"
 * Lelend Chee's word on the issue is canon. Your english teachers' are not. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 22:13, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's pronounced (kie'duss) because it's derived fromn a latin word. I was a strong believer in the (kay'duss) pronunciation until I did some research on latin.

Caedus or Jacen?
I was wondering whether its fair to name the title page for the character: Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo, Darth Caedus because in the book doesn't it clearly state that he reunited with the light in order to save Tenel Ka? And with other Star Wars characters like, Anakin Skywalker, The name of the title page is the name of the character depending on whether they died in the light or dark.

BenKenobi 93 23:42, 19 February 2009 (UTC) BenKenobi_93
 * I believe that was decided above. Mecenarylord 23:46, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Does anybody read these talk pages? This happens at least once every few months like clockwork Steves490 00:16, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably not. Mecenarylord 13:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it make sense to simply end these issues by including both for all Sith with known original names? Like "Jacen Solo (Darth Caedus)"...? Just a suggestion. Xanofar 21:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then people would have a never ending fight over what name would be listed first. (argument continues) Steves490 23:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Jacens final moments.
I think that in the opening paragraph where it states: “giving his life in order to warn Tenel Ka through the Force to take care of their daughter, Allana.” I should be worded to reflect that he was reaching out to warn them of the nanovirus rather than “to take care of their daughter”

Death in 41 ABY?
I thought that the LOTF series spanned the year of 40 ABY. Wasn't Caedue killed in 40 ABY?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 16:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, according to Sue Rostoni, 41 ABY first takes place in Revelation, so the date of death on the page is correct. Steves490 19:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Naming of article?
Is naming this article 'Darth Caedus' appropriate? I mean, nothing to do with spoilers, but 'Caedus' isn't the name he's best known by - he's only known as Caedus for 5 books, whereas he's known as Jacen Solo for well over 40 books. That, combined with the fact that it's very debatable what name Darth Vader is best known by (Anakin or Vader, obviously) makes me think that this isn't a very consistant rule. I imagine that it's about 50/50 when it comes to what name Vader is best known by - and his article is called "Anakin Skywalker" - whereas Caedus (in my humble opinion) is far better known as 'Jacen Solo'. Opinions? The Haunted Angel 18:40, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The article is at Darth Caedus because he died Darth Caedus, not Jacen Solo.  IFYLOFD  ( Come with me if you want to live. ) 18:41, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You have GOT to be kidding me. Can someone tell me why NOBODY seems to read the page before starting up the SAME argument over and over again? with the SAME TITLE!?!?! Steves490 22:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Apologies - it appears that I missed the earlier discussions - don't get too worked up. The Haunted Angel 19:18, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the caps, they are meant to emphasize the words not to give the appearance of yelling :) Steves490 19:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem :) The Haunted Angel 21:02, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

How to say his real name?
Is it pronounced [Jay-kin] or [Jason]?


 * [Jay-sin] Steves490 00:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Survival?
I haven't read all of the LotF series yet, but I know that Caedus dies at the hands of his sister Jaina, and manages to save his daughter and wife(or is it lover?)

Anyway, is there any possible chance that Caedus is still alive? Maybe put into a life support suit of armour?(so ironic). And what was that with a guy called Seth feeling the same to Allana of her father? Is it Jacen/Caedus? Please help.--DK743 10:40, September 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * No he did die Jaina's saber pierced his heart, and Seff Helin felt like Jacen in the force to Allana because she felt the darkside in him like Jacen. after you finish the LotF read the M.Falcon and then the FotJ series and it'll all be clear.

Name of article-Caedus or Jacen
I know this has been discussed but hear me out. You say that this article is called Caedus, not Jacen because he died as Caedus, while Vader died as Anakin, that's why his article is called Anakin. But, didn't Jaina say she felt Jacen not Caedus when he died? Personally I prefer it as Caedus but I'm just addressing a point.--DK743 13:59, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * You're addressing a point that has been addressed over and over again, like you yourself said. And if you're not arguing to move this to Jacen Solo, why exactly are you bringing this up again? Just so others can start up this debate again? Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:54, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh... Steves490 03:43, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

I think Abyss has sort of settled this issue.ShiftyPoolton 16:37, October 2, 2009 (GMT)
 * I disagree. And just as soon as I hear back from Toprawa and Ralltiir, and, hopefully, he has cleared what I want to say, I will make that argument. Joshuaingram 01:45, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Jacen's lightsaber hilt
Could someone please add a picture of Jacen's second lightsaber (green) to the lightsaber section. If not could someone please provide a link to an image below this message? thanks
 * There is it's in the devastating accident section jedi_master425

Lightsaber Section
Why was the lightsaber section removed from the article?

Jacen Solo / Darth Caedus
I know, I have read the template on the top and yes, I know he died as Darth Caedus. But why is the Palpatine article named "Palpatine" and not "Darth Sidious". He died as Darth Sidious, so why did they not change that too? --Jawaman No, I did NOT steal your droid! 12:31, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

The larger part of the article calls him Jacen, so the page should really be moved to that. Darth Dumbo 09:08, December 30, 2009 (UTC)Darth DumboDarth Dumbo 09:08, December 30, 2009 (UTC) 12/30/09


 * Yes palpatine was Darth Sidious when he died but only a few people knew he was Darth Sidious. The galaxy at large only knew him as palpatine even in the empire days. And everyone pretty much knew that Jacen was Caedus since he had everyone calling him Lord Caedus. jedi_master425
 * Everyone really? Like 95% of the galaxy's citizens or just everyone under his command? According to the manual of style, the name of the article should be "the name under which the subject was known during the later time period, or, for characters, at the moment of the character's death". Well when it comes to Jacen/Caedus, he may have been known as Darth Caedus by the main protagonists of the story but to the rest of the galaxy, as far as I recall from my reading of the books, he was still Colonel Jacen Solo, wasn't he? --Petiflo 01:25, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * This debate is never going to end. I'm surprised the naming controversy doesn't qualify for it's own Wookieepedia article. :P &mdash;  beeurd  talk 23:40, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting idea, i'd be amused by that page. But to Petiflo, and just about everyone whose kept this argument going, just read the read of the talk page and you will see your exact argument repeated many times. Steves490 07:13, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not really interested of keeping the debate going, I was just asking what the manual of style meant by "the name under which the subject was known [...] the moment of the character's death". From your answer I guess it means it has to be the name by which the character was known by the main protagonists of the story. Perhaps it might be better to add that to the manual of style. --Petiflo 18:10, January 7, 2010 (UTC)