Talk:Sith/Legends

Structural Revision
I hate the way the Dark Lords and generic Sith are organised on this page... does anyone care if I do a major reorganisation, dumping, among other things, the chronological listings? QuentinGeorge 06:46, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It might be good to do it on a temp page first, and then post a link for the community to see, rather than making a massive, one time change. --SparqMan 06:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Move to Sith Order
Should we move this over to Sith Order to better distinguish it from the Sith race? -- SFH 17:44, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, howver this would mean that Jedi should be moved to Jedi Order. Jasca Ducato 18:54, 23 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * No, there is no Jedi race, so it doesn't matter. - Alpha Fire 21:22, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Move History to separate page?
It seems as though this article is one big history lesson, with no mention of the Sith's practices, beliefs, or any other information (other than the Code at the top). How would everyone feel about moving the history to a separate page? The main Sith page could then hold more information on who the Sith were and what they did. This would also be consistent with the Jedi History page, which remains a separate page from the Jedi Order. --Culix 04:07, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Both this and the Jedi page as severely lacking on actual 'examinations of the order. QuentinGeorge 06:51, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. Now we can begin refining the history page separately. --Culix 19:54, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Post-NJO Sith source?

 * "Following the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, however, Jedi Knight Kyle Katarn encountered a Force-strong Yuuzhan Vong female in the mysterious Cloak of the Sith region of the galaxy, where it was rumored that post-Palpatine Sith still lived. Powerful though she was, Kyle sensed an even darker hand behind her training. Apparently, this Yuuzhan Vong had a Master . . ."
 * From this article. Is there a source for this? 'Cause it smells like fanon. --Imp 02:07, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)


 * That's from the Wizard's of the Coast website. The Dark Forces articles. -- 63.245.159.27
 * By golly, it is. --Imp 02:29, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Code
Is the last line of the Sith Code "The Force shall free me", ot is it "The Force shall set me Free"? User:SFH

Do we have any sources for where the Code actually originated from? Was it invented by Xendor or perhaps compiled over time? --Culix 06:23, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's "free me". --Master Starkeiller 01:42, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * In KOTOR it's "Set me free". User:Darthnemesis555
 * Definately not Xendor, as he was never a Sith Lord. QuentinGeorge 08:24, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean he couldn't have invented the code. It might have originally been a Dark Jedi code that was slowly absolved by the Sith. I think the chances of it being created by Xendor are pretty high. Jasca Ducato 15:36, 1 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jasca. While he may not have formed it, it may have been partially based on his meditations. As for the source, this code comes from KOTOR. -- SFH 06:43, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, maybe I didn't phrase my question correctly. I realize that the code showed up in KOTOR IRL, but I meant to ask if we had any in universe mention of who thought it up. Perhaps nothing official has ever been said? --Culix 06:16, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh. No, nothing in universe has been said. -- SFH 15:10, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Err, not that i know off. Sorry. Jasca Ducato 19:54, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC)


 * Um, there's a different Sith Code out there.

There is no fear, there is power. There is no death, there is immortality. There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness. I know no fear, But rather I instill it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds. I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate. All the Universe bows before me. I pledge myself to the Darkness. For I have found true life, In the death of the light.

Shouldn't this be included? I mean, it is the code from Darth Bane on. -Hitokiri Akins I'm fairly certain that KOTOR is the source. - Angel Blue 451 21:36, 8 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Provide a source before this is added, please. QuentinGeorge 05:00, 8 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it's not. I've played through both KOTOR games countless times, and the only Sith Code mentioned in them is the one that's already in this article.

Ancient Sith
How can Tulak Hord have lived in the same era as Ajunta Pall if Hord was a lightsaber duelist? Not only had the lightsaber not been invented yet, but the Sith wouldn't come to use it until after the Great Hyperspace War. I don't see how Hord could have reigned anytime but after Ludo Kressh.


 * Since we can only assume when he lived at this point, I moved him to "Others". --Master Starkeiller 16:31, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Also, shouldn't King Adas be on the list somewhere? Lieutenant Gerard 16:22, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * If he lived 16.000 BBY, he should be under the "Ancient Sith" section. I put him there. --Master Starkeiller 16:32, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Main Picture
Anyone opposed to me adding this image as the main picture?--Knightfall


 * Yeah, me. It's awful. We have a pic showing the same thing where Sidious and Vader look much better. No, absolutely not. Without the tweaking to make Hayden taller, Vader looks LAME. --Master Starkeiller 18:56, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem. Just figured I'd ask. Thanks for the reply. --Knightfall 19:34, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * If it weren't for Vader's height, it would be fine... --Master Starkeiller 20:12, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I always thought that pic would be better for this page. I mean, when you say "Sith", what do you first think about?TIEPilot051999 01:48, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * This may be beating a dead horse, but in regards to what Starkeiller said, doesn't this picture properly represent Vader's height? The tweaking to make Hayden taller was actually IN the suit he wore, it wasn't edited in later...well, at least as far as I know. If thats true, then that would make Vader's height in this picture accurate.--Knightfall 00:54, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * It's because its actually Ryan Kaufman in the suit for the promos, I've heard. QuentinGeorge 02:58, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I prefer this picture, not the current one which is in the article. The only thing I do not like in that pic is that Vader has a blue lightsaber, which does not really represent the tradition of a red blade. - TopAce 11:50, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with TopAce... the current main picture isin't good enough. I really don't see a problem with the picture presented by Knightfall. I always thought that represented Vader's height in comparision to Palpatine. Geuss I have to watch Return of the Jedi again! -- Maphisto86 13:12, 4 Feb 2006 (UTC)

Ranks?
Where do the ranks for the pre-Bane Sith come from? Lieutenant Gerard 18:40, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * The Dark Side Sourcebook. -- SFH 20:15, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)

First landing
We need to gain some consensus on where the Dark Jedi first discovered the Sith race. Ziost may have been the homeworld, but I think that they first discovered them on Korriban. Any thoughts? -- SFH 20:15, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that the KOTOR loading screens say the Dark Jedi landed on Korriban. Lieutenant Gerard 23:26, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Insignia
I noticed that in KOTOR II, Ludo Kressh's tomb has the star forge-esque symbol that was the insignia for Revan's Sith. Given that Ajunta Pall apparently knew of the star forge, and it's stated that Revan and Malak took as many symbols and relics as possible from the old Sith, could this mean that this was the symbol of the Sith from prior to Revan? Kuralyov 19:29, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's distinctly possible, even likely. Personally i don't believe it to be true myself but i know when i'm wrong. All i know for sure is that the Mandalorian banner on Dxun (KOTOR II) is based on what Canderous Ordo saw during the final battle of the Jedi Civil War (i.e. the Star Forge). Jasca Ducato 19:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Philosophy
Can we get a source for that Philosophy section? Sounds fanony to me, but I think I'll give it a chance. -- SFH 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Only result from Google is...us. --Fade 18:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Sith Organisations
Should we move the list of Sith Orginisations (ie the Naddists, the Brotherhood) to a seperate article making acsess easier. It would also tidy the page up a bit! Jasca Ducato 16:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I only added it becuase this article was far too broad and chaotic. I mean, the term 'Sith' refers to numerous disparate organizations that rose and fell over thousands of years of galactic history. Without a list of them, the article becomes far to generalized. I agree that the new section makes for an overlong contents block, but the list improves navigation and it seems more important than the list of RPG classes... --Sentry 23:45, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand that but under a new article, say Sith Orginisations/Orginizations it would mean we could add more detail. Jasca Ducato 08:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

THE MOST POWERFUL SITH LORD OF ALL TIME
WHO DO ALL OF YOU THINK IS THE MOST POWERFUL SITH LORD OF ALL TIME?
 * When I said to put it here, I didn't think you actually would. But I guess it can be here. Admiral J. Nebulax 21:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

A Thought on Ajunta Pall
Is it possible the unknown power he was speaking of to Revan wasn't the Star Forge, but the Trayus Academy. its just a thought on the matter being the Trayus Academy was an ancient Sith academy. User:RushinSundaws

I believe Ajunta was talking about the Trayus academy since he says somthing like "you will find this power and you will regret it" then he says "Or have you? Or will you? So many images"

That and it's mentioned that the academy almost killed Reven when he went to it hence the regret. Phillowe88 14:29, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * He is conflicted over Revan having found or not because Revan is off to the Star Forge for the second time in Kotor, even though, as far as he's aware, he never has visited it. Ajunta doesn't know the chronological facts for what he's talking about, so the regret could be a view of Revan's first visit. Or, as a pessimistic Sith Lord, his vision of Revan's future may have been the dark side ending. As for the Academy...we don't even know Revan visited it after his mind wipe. And I'm not sure how the 'power' of Trayus stands up to a dark-side-leeching, Sith-lord-strengthening, fleet-spawning spacestation. --Fade 14:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Phillowe88 20:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Some good points there. I don't think Revan visits Trayus after the wipe but he does remember it eventually along with the old Sith empire. I believe that Ajunta was part of that old Sith empire and that is what he was refering to. The old Sith had no knowledge of the Star Forge. As for the "power" part the Trayus academy has the power to turn even the most light side Jedi to the dark side and corrupt them. Wonder if the Academy predates the Forge or vice versa?
 * Bear in mind the author's intent, as well. The fact that it was mentioned in Kotor I heavily supports the Star Forge idea; that is, the Kotor I writers obviously wanted to make a connection between the ancient Sith and Star Forge, as Trayus hadn't been invented yet. Obviously there was no evidence prior to this; the Forge was, after all, invented by Kotor. And the Forge, assuming Trayus was built by the Sith, far outdates the academy. --Fade 14:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * But Revan found or refound the Trayus Academy before the Star Forge in the Star Wars continuity...seeing how the academy led him to Korriban and the Star Map on Korriban helped him find the Star Forge. And the Trayus Academy is said by Kreia to be something of the ancient Sith. User:RushinSundaws 11:23, 16 February 2006


 * Revan found the Star Forge before finding any of the Star Maps. (With the exception of the Dantooine possibly) Bastila SHan cleary states that Revan and Malak were seen on several words while they were meant to have been looking for the remnant of Mandalorian forces. Jasca Ducato 08:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Umm... No. In KOTOR, you are retracing Revan's path to the Star Forge. He and Malak did not just stumble on it out of the blue. They hunted for it in secret after their supposed 'disappearance'. As to when they discovered the Dantooine Star Map, I would guess that it was early, probably before the Mandalorian Wars. Vrook seems to support this in his conversation options. If you want to know about how Revan discovered Malachor V and how it fits into the story, read the Chronicles of the Old Republic. Its not the best source in the world, but its the only one, so beggars can't be choosers...--Sentry 10:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Right; the reason they were seen on several worlds is because they were looking for the maps. --Fade 11:16, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i meant that. IT was a typo. I meant to say they hadn't found any maps (with the exception of Dantooine) before they found the Trayus Academy. SO the Trayus Academy and the Star Forge and completely unrelated. Jasca Ducato 12:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Um, thats not entirely true, the Trayus academy led Revan to Korriban and one of the Star Maps, so they do a small connection. RushinSundaws 9:18, 19 February 2006

Empathy quote

 * What is the source for the lead in quote about empathy? -- SFH 16:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * From The Apprentice (comic) in Star Wars Tales. So it's legit, but of unknown canonicity. --Fade 17:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, idiot move. Hadn't heard of Legacy yet.