Talk:Darth Traya

What ever happened to her army?
Being in the triumitave that would mean she had some troops from the sith empire. What happened to them? Did she disband it or give it 2 the other guys I know she had to keep a low profile but some extra soldiers or bodyguards wouldnt have hurt.
 * Doesn't the notion of being exiled mean anything to you?  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 07:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Arren Kae?
I think this can't be true because Kae was handmaidens mother and she says her mother is death. By the way is there a posibility that she won't notice her mother? --


 * I disagree with both your points, though not because I support the theory regarding Arren Kae. First of all, people can very easily fake their own death. Judging from Kreia's appearance in the morgue, it seems that she can go even further and appear dead to advanced medical equipment. Therefore, until evidence of Kae's death is presented we cannot entirely be certain that she is truly dead (nevertheless, I personally believe this is so). Also, you raise the point of "noticing": Kreia uses an advanced technique called Art of the Small and numerous other methods of mind manipulation. If the Sith Lord of Betrayal, a mistress of manipulation doesn't want an untrained force-sensitive like Brianna to find something out; then she won't.
 * My personal belief is that the Knights of the Old Republic comics is setting up the great manipulator of the Padawan Massacre, Krynda Draay, to be the Kreia we know and love (or hate ^^). Such a strong and unique character bearing numerous similarities to Kreia is hard to disguise. --Kessel 22:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Someone vandalized this article.
Kreias quote at the top says Im a g im a g yessir!

Last name
I've been thinking about this for a few months and to be honest, I can't seem to speak it out just yet. Do any of you guys have a clue what her last name could be? 72.82.9.127 00:04, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 00:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 01:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Darth Traya to Kreia
Was moving Darth Traya to Kreia discussed? Drewton  01:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It has, and it can't be much of a spoiler, she was revealed to be a sith fairly early in the game (First conversation onboard the Ebon hawk if the exile had a decent intelligence level) --Dixieboy 23:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Kreia and Arren Kae
Even though Kreia being Arren Kae is speculation, this cut dialouge implies that they are the same person and should be put in Behind the scenes.

Handmaiden: I cannot dishonor the Exile anymore then I can dishonor the memory of my mother.

''Kreia: Foolish words. Perhaps I could simply marr your face to show how foolish your clinging to a memory of her is. Or perhaps the truth would leave a greater wound.''

''Handmaiden: Your words are hollow, Traya. Your lies will end here today. If not by my hand, then by the Exile's.''

''Kreia: Hollow? Then know the truth and suffer for it. Arren Kae did not die at Malachor, or at least not in the way you believe. Look into your feelings...'' Drewton   16:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a piece of fanon that was made up to look like cut content. It's phony. No where in the dialog.tlk is anything that remotely resembles that, besides her actual lines of "Think before you throw away your life for him. Lust unfulfilled. Dance unfinished. Love requited..." It stays out. Nice try in getting your speculation bullshit into the article. It's not happening. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 18:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I thought it was real. I should have checked the dlg file first. It's not my fanon, I found it in the archives.  If I saw fanon about Kreia and Arren Kae in the article I would remove it.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 21:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Lord of the Sith?
Is Kreia not considered a Dark Lord of the Sith? And if not, why not? It was said in the game that both Sion and Nihilus were here apprentices before they betrayed her. Shouldn't the fact that she was considered the leader and likely founder make her a Dark Lord for the time before the other two overthrew her? Mistrx75 06:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * She was the leader, yes, but I haven't seen any lore which actually names her as Dark Lord of the Sith, only as a standard "Sith Lord". In any case, I don't believe "Traya" was the kind of Sith who would really feel she needed the title. She shows scorn towards the Sith of Revan's empire, and her little speeches on Atris's fall and the True Sith indicate that she may not have really considered herself much of a Sith either: "'Sith' is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe."
 * To her, the Sith were just a means to an end, and I wouldn't be surprised if she just skipped over the pretence and just stuck to being "Lord of Betrayal". --Kessel 17:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Kreia/Darth Traya

 * There are perfectly valid reasons for moving the Kreia page to Darth Traya. This is the previous decision:

"This was one of those weird exceptions to the rule that we had a consensus about. While the preference was to keep her at Kreia, her infobox remains Darth Traya as it was technically her final persona."

- Redemption

I believe this matter should be opened for discussion again - not just for Kreia, but for all Sith characters.
 * So we're really going to need to sort the Kreia name and picture thing out, as it's getting damn confusing and everyone keeps changing things. What I don't understand is why Anakin Skywalker, though having died under the name "Darth Vader" (I don't recall him stating before his death that he wished to be called "Anakin" again, though I suppose this must also be a hotly debated point), has his younger picture and birth name in the infobox, whilst Kreia has an infobox name inconsistent with the page title and an infobox image of her only briefly seen dark side persona. I suggest a compromise: that the page remain "Kreia" and include her better known brown-robed appearance, and that the infobox name be "Kreia / Darth Traya" in accordance with my suggestion for the renaming of Sith characters --Kessel 11:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Anakin's infobox picture is of younger Anakin because his Force ghost was of younger Anakin, unlike Obi-Wan. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is what I'm talking about: there are too many variables, and current policy is confusing. Anakin spent most of his life as Darth Vader, which he is known best as, yet there is no mention of the sort in his infobox. Furthermore, how do we decide on the standard for infobox image? Is it their best known appearance (as with Ulic Qel-Droma) or their final appearance (as with Anakin)? Furthermore, what about infobox style? Should identity as a Sith character be indicated over and above identity as a Jedi character? Should ex-darksiders get a new infobox style to indicate that they died good men and women, but were not good, clean Jedi all the way? Whatever the decision, we need a stronger, clearer and more objective system than the current one. --Kessel 13:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think this issue would need to be solved on a case-by-case basis. As for this article, I say leave it at Kreia. She rejected both the light and the dark sides and took the name Kreia (if that wasn't her original name to begin with). Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * However, she died as Darth Traya. I agree this issue needs to be solved case-by-case, but I think the best way is who do they consider themselves to be at the moment of their death (or their latest moment if they're not yet dead). Kreia was Darth Traya in game when you kill her, she retook that name in the end.Jedi-Sith 14:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia appears to be a unique case. While she may have retaken the name "Darth Traya" at the end, I don't know if she became a Sith again. But that's just my opinion. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Did Kreia even call herself Traya? The name 'Darth Traya' that appeared above her semeed to be more of a game mechanic.  She seemed to be more of a Vergere at the end; neither Sith nor Jedi, just with the purpose of destroying the Force.  She gave the title of Darth Traya to Atris.  And, as she said, Those are titles, words you cling to as the darkness falls around you. "Sith" is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, she does at least once. "Know that there was once a Darth Traya. And that she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. Who has been betrayed in their heart, and will betray in turn." --Brukhar 03:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Notice the phrasing. She's acknowledging that she once was Darth Traya, but there is a new Traya (i.e., Atris and not her). Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's a valid interpretation, although I had always taken it to mean that Kreia still held the knowledge of betrayal and could re-assume her title as Darth Traya when the time was right. However, I do see what you're saying and it's possible (especially given the original plans by ObsidianEnt (where Atris, not Kreia, was Darth Traya).  Though if that's the case I don't see how that helps us resolve the Jedi/Sith infobox issue. --Brukhar 14:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * After playing through the game a few times, and taking note of Kreia's dialogue, I believe that she didn't become a Sith again at the end. Perhaps Obsidian made the change from Atris to Kreia as Traya relatively late into development, so they just put Kreia in without changing the "Darth Traya" tag. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 19:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's put it this way: "Darth Traya" was only really a title she used, not an alternative persona - anyone who's played the game should agree that Kreia never stopped being Kreia; at least not in her time with the Exile.
 * Anyway, I disagree with naming on a case-by-case basis: I suggest that all names used by the character be appropriately represented in the infobox. I believe it is a more encyclopaedic way of representing the information, and leaves less room for personal opinion. --Kessel 21:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The current pic looks good. Flashfire212, this is. "Here, on Dantooine, Masters Zez-Kai Ell, Kavar, and Vrook Lamar all fell to Darth Traya."
 * And if Kreia destroyed the Force, as she wanted to, there would be no Sith or Jedi. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Putting all the names for a character in the infobox would, frankly, look horrible. I could just see "Alek Squinquargesimus/Darth Malak." Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, what about doing one per line or something similar? Because quite frankly, the alternative of picking just one title creates bias towards a character. (IE, Darth Traya being inherently evil, as opposed to Kreia, which doesn't imply an alignment).  Also, the lack of listing various titles might create confusion, especially used with characters whose identities are not revealed until later into the game or book. (IE, the Jedi Exile meets Kreia, and therefore a Wookiepedia user looks up "Kreia" on the site, only to be redirected to "Darth Traya", which confuses him.)  An important thing to keep in mind is that not all Wookiepedia users are experts on the topic. Additionally, something to keep in mind is *IF* Kreia's true identity is revealed in the future (ie, Arren Kae or Krynda Draay), what would you then list her title as?  Would you make it the new identity, or Kreia, or Darth Traya? --Brukhar 00:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Grand Moff Traner. Doing it because not all Wookieepedia users are experts is not encyclopedic.  If Kreia is Arren Kae or Krynda Draay, it would be best in my opinion for the page to remain Kreia, because everyone later called her Kreia.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 00:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the infobox should be Kreia, but as of right now, it's Darth Traya. That's why I said the above, not because I believe it shouldn't be Kreia. Since everyone knows her as Kreia, I think the page name and infobox should both list her as Kreia, and it should remain that way regardless of what future name changes/identities emerge.  If you're going to list Darth Traya in the infobox, shouldn't Kreia be there too?--Brukhar 01:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My vote goes for putting Kreia, and only Kreia, in the infobox. It looks good with Drewton's latest edit. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I feel as though we should change her to Darth Traya. While the Exile never calls her such, she according to the targeting reticule, or whatever, is Darth Traya, not Kreia. And thi squote from Jedi vs. Sith: Essential Guide to the Force shows that after the destruction of Malachor V, she was referred to as Traya:

- Recording of Deesra Luur Jada

Thst's why I think the article name should be changed.--Jedi Kasra 00:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering that Deesra wasn't present and didn't know about what Kreia said to the Exile during her travels, I don't think that's an adequate reason for moving the article. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 01:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Timeline Issue
On the article page, it states the following:

"It came the time when Revan was apprehended, stripped of his identity, and sent after his former apprentice. With Malak's defeat, however, memories of his former self came back to haunt him, and he remembered the academy on Malachor.[6] He made for the shattered remains of Malachor V and found Kreia, who completed his training and made him ready to leave the Jedi Order once and for all."

However, I was always under the impression that Kreia teaching Revan how to leave the Order once and for all took place just Before the Mandalorian Wars. Revan did return to Malachor V, and thus rediscovered knowledge of the True Sith, and went off to the Unknown Regions. I don't think he met Kreia at Malachor V, as I was always under the impression she arrived to Malachor V later, along with Sion and Nihilus, after fleeing Korriban. (As per the "Several dark lords were suspected to have fled to the corners of the galaxy" loading screen message on Korriban). Was it explicitly stated that Revan found Kreia on Malachor V again? Or was this an assumption made by whoever wrote this article? If it was stated, can you please provide a source for the "finding Kreia" part.

--Brukhar 01:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's all bollocks, so I removed it.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 08:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Kreia says Revan came to her both before and after his amnesia, and by that time she was already thought to be dead and nowhere to be found, so...--Jinger 10:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)