Talk:Anakin Skywalker/Archive12

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Birthplace
Anakin was born on Tatooine. The New Essential Chronology says so. Does the first part of the article have this in mind? - Milo Fett [Comlink] 02:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC) p.32 "On Tatooine, the slave Shmi Skywalker had given birth to a child more powerful in the Force than any other in history..." What sources are these, and do they predate the NEC? - Milo Fett [Comlink] 01:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC) True, but when Padmé and Anakin say "here", they could easily be referring to Watto's shop. Saying that they belonged to Gardulla the Hutt before that doesn't rule this out because Gardulla lives on Tatooine. If it's ambiguous in the movie, and a recent source says that he was born on Tatooine, then nothing really conflicts. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 14:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Just because a source is inconsistent in parts doesn't mean that other parts should be disregarded. In the screenplay, I don't see anything about "here" refering to Mos Eisley (or Mos Espa, for that matter), but it could be true. However, since we don't know for sure given the information from the film, and since a definite answer is given in another, C-canon source, albeit a partially incorrect source, I think that the best think for it is to go with the NEC. If you disagree, I'll just give up and work on more important things. Thanks for your time, - Milo Fett [Comlink] 00:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Citation of these sources would be welcome. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 20:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If the NEC said such a thing, i'm sure the article would have been edited as such by now. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 15:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been discussed, and the majority of sources say otherwise. As of now, Anakin has no known birthplace. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 19:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * For one, The Phantom Menace. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And to movies are a higher canon than anything. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Anakin says they moved to Mos Eisley when he was "three, I think". They were sold to Gardulla the Hutt when he was three. It doesn't say he was born on Tatooine, just that he had lived there since he was three. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Milo Fett, for one thing, The New Essential Chronology has screwed up already. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This has already been discussed. Anakin was not born on Tatooine. This discussion is over. Kindly don't restart it again. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hang on...does the NEC state clearly that he was born on Tatooine? Becuase if it does, he was, since TPM does not state otherwise...does it? .  .  .  .  07:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that other sources also say he wasn't born on Tatooine. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What, the movie's not good enough for you? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As an impartial observer, nowhere in the movie or the novelization (I just checked) does it explicitly say he was not from Tatooine. I know of no source that says so, but then again I haven't read a lot of the books set during and around 32 BBY. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  20:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, it may not be stated exactly, but that's what Anakin implies. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess what this all comes down to is implication in the film vs. statement in the NEC. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 01:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Implication of a 9 year old, and, for that matter, an implication that I can't recall, vs a cold, hard statement in the NEC. I'll back the latter for the time being. .  .  .  .  08:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for interrupting, but this all seems a little pointless. What's the problem here? If the NEC says Tatooine and there's no hard evidence for anything else, why can't we trust it? Evir Daal 08:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Because Jack thinks that the film alludes to him not being born there. .  .  .  .  08:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Anakin's statement overrides the NEC - which is presented as an in-universe document written by a fallible author. It can be wrong, quite easily, it certainly is with things such as the dates of the Battle of Galidraan and the Battle of Cathar. QuentinGeorge 08:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly... If he had stated explicitly that he wasn't born on Tatooine, which he didn't. As of now, the NEC must take precedence. Author may have intended it to be he was born there (or not), but that doesn't matter here. Only canon does. Evir Daal 08:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's...a bizzare mentality from some one like you, George. Are you saying that we can't be sure that Bane was originally called Dessel, since the last half of the book is so error-ridden? .  .  .  .  08:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The New Essential Guide to Characters also says he didn't arrive on Tatooine until he was 3. Prior to that, Shmi and Anakin belonged to Pi-Lippa, who did not live on Tatooine. QuentinGeorge 08:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Fourdot, the NEC is and always has been presented as an in-universe document. The novel Path of Destruction is not. There is a difference. QuentinGeorge 08:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That still fails to rule out that he was born on Tatooine, NEC being more recent than NEGTC. And Anakin is IU, I believe....eh, it's not worth it. .  .  .  .  09:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right: It's not worth it. Anakin was not born on Tatooine. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You keep saying that, but thus far you have failed to prove it, if you'll pardon me for being frank. Evir Daal 12:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hold on here. The NEGTC doesn't say that he arrived on Tatooine when he was 3, it says that he was "purchased by Gardulla the Hutt of Tatooine when Anakin was approximately three years old." That neither states nor implies that he wasn't on Tatooine before that. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 14:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Do us a favor, Milo: Provide us the exact quote from The New Essential Chronology. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 16:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * From Episode 1: "How long have you been here?" "Since I was very little. Three, I think."

- Padmé Naberrie and Annie

I transcripted it straight from the film, so the punctuation might be a little wrong, but this it what they actually said. As previously stated, "here" could be the planet, but it could just as easily be the city, or even Watto's shop, as it isn't defined in the film. So would everyone please stop using this source, at least, in their not-born-on-Tatooine-claims. And Nebulax, please don't revert the article again. Until we know for certain, we shouldn't make assumptions. Evir Daal 18:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC) -"How long have you been here?" "Since I was very little, 3, I think. My mom & I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us betting on the pod races."-Lines taken from The Phantom Menace. The movies should ALWAYS take precedence when determining what is/isn't canon. End of story. Granted, the databanks on starwars.com refer to Tatooine as Anakin's homeworld, so I suppose that will suffice for now, but his specific birthplace is never explicitly referred to as Tatooine. I'm becoming irritated by this though. "The NEC (forgive me but is it even canon? to the extent that it takes precedence over the movies?) says so." is not sufficient proof to mess with the article. Brad2 20:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) I didn't ask for a quote from Episode I. 2) I'm reverting it, because the version I keep adding in still leaves the possibility of Anakin's homeworld being Tatooine. Besides, your version is grammatically poor. You want to keep an edit war going, be my guest. We'll both get blocked for it. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. The movie does say that he has been "here" meaning it could be Espa or anywhere on Tatooine. Very vague. But the guide seems to be makes it crystal clear that he was born on Tatooine. Because the movie was so vague, the book really isn't contradicting anything...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would just like to see a quote from The New Essential Chronology already. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 22:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) I know you didn't, but since that seems to be what you're using for a source, I brought that up just to try and clear things up, in short: The movie isn't clear on it, and you can't claim it is before evidence to the contrary. 2) But it isn't a possibility, the NEC clearly says he was born there. If you know something the rest of us don't, kindly share it. If you haven't got a source, then don't bother. 3) My version is poor? "This planet..." what planet? It isn't even mentioned in your version. 4) You want a war? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but that doesn't seem to be working. If we can't resolve this peacefully, I don't see any other option than bringing this before the admins. Evir Daal 22:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm the one asking you for a simple quote. Just provide it already. If it says what you claim, I'll drop it. However, let me handle changing it in the article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 22:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, "here", could mean anywhere, but just think about it. It just makes sense that it's Tatooine. Besides, I'm pretty sure other canon sources say he wasn't born on Tatooine. Milo, until you can give us a quote, put it in BTS. Chack Jadson 22:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nebulax, didn't Milo Fett give it up at the start of this topic? And, sure, if you want that badly to rewrite it, that's fine with me (my last edit was before I read this). But stick to canon, will you? Look, it's getting real late were I'm writing from, so would you mind if I logged out and we continued this discussion tomorrow? Evir Daal 22:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Right... I got so caught up in this discussion that I forgot about that. But, Evir, canon says two things in this case: That he was born on Tatooine, and that he wasn't. So, the only way to have it in the article is to leave it ambiguous. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How about we hear more about these other sources that say he wasn't born on Tatooine...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 23:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll need some time to look through the sources I do have. But, let me ask you this: Would a source saying Anakin wasn't born on Tatooine change anyone's mind? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It would depend on the source...like, for example, if it was something like a trading card or promotional comic book, the NEC would override, but another C-canon source would probably take precedence, rather than having the "score" set to 1-1, due to the in-universe quality of the NEC. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 01:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * When dealing with c-canon, shouldn't the most recent source take precedence? But I see your point too, Milo. I guess it's a tough question. Nebulax, if you can find a more reliable source contradicting the NEC, I'm with you all the way. Canon is what's important here, not personal opinions. Evir Daal 09:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, here's the thing: I'll need other people to help me. I have a lot of books with Anakin in them, but I don't have all of them. In addition, I don't have a lot of spare time today. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 13:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 'Fraid I can't help you there, as I haven't got very many sourcebooks and stuff, I mainly collect novels and comics. But if I come up with something, I'll let you know. Evir Daal 15:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Does anyone have Tatooine Ghost? I think they read Shmi's holo-diary or something; it might solve this dispute. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 15:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have the book, but unfortunately not the time. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just bought a copy of Tatooine Ghost, and I'm reading it next weekend. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 03:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Has this crisis been averted? I mean, come on, this is a large arguement over a simple thing. One person says GEC says he was born on Tatooine, one person says he isn't. Nebulax, as stated before, you keep disapproving this, but you haven't provided proof. Inevitably, we're going to agree with Milo and GEC. Unless you come up with something, this arguement should be over. TheNewDarthMalevlent ( The Sith shall rise to power!) |undefined 00:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I said, but I didn't want to look like a jerk. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 15:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'v been looking through the source books that I have, but so far no mention of Anakin's birthplace other than NEC and TPM. I was thinking that it may be in the Vader: The Ultimate Guide, or something if anyone owns that, untill then the neutral statment made about his birthplace will do. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) [[Image:Oldsith.png|20px]] 19:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I finished reading Tatooine Ghost. Nothin'. Great read, though. - Milo Fett [Comlink] 04:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hero Cycle
The "crucifixion" part would be far better fitted by the arena scene in AOTC where Anakin is tied to a pole with a person either side of him Also sections with an extra number added to it are related to each other (2,5,6,7,11,15 and 17) Example - section 2: Assassination attempt by a family member -> since Anakin's real family never really wanted to kill him ( even Luke who was only tempted) it could be reasonable to assume it's someone of either his Jedi or Sith 'families'. In relation with the other two sub-sections: 'Hero wounded' and 'But escapes'. I believe his first duel with Dooku fits best. Dooku tries to kill him, the hero is wounded, but escapes through the timely intervention of Yoda. There's more, but I told myself not to write a whole essay ;) If anyone(who has the power to edit) agrees with what I brought up and wants hear the rest, I'll post it here.
 * Well, I suppose that could be added, provided the current part isn't removed. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 02:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd better listen to Nebulax, he is to be taken VERY SERIOUSLY. He can get the admins to actually come to your house and kill you with a real lightsaber if you write a single word he doesn't like anywhere on this website. Why, yes, he does have the time to read every word on this entire website every day.  Hey, that IS NOT incredibly lame, how dare you talk about Nebulax like that?  He is a real Admiral and will Force Choke you faster than you can say "Hayden Christiansen sucks".  -"Prophet"
 * Real funny. Chack Jadson 22:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like to state a few things. A lot of the sections in the 'Hero Cycle' are symbolic, whoever wrote this article is way too literal in the meaning of certain things. For example the 'crucifixion' mentioned above is a clear reference to Jezus' crucifixion, in the 'Hero Cycle' it symbolizes the loss of faith in the 'hero'. In Anakin's case it's the mistrust the Jedi Council shows him.
 * Wow, Prophet, you just proved yourself to be an idiot. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 19:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Heil Nebulax!!!
 * Please keep all pointless comments off of talk pages. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 14:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Lightsaber style
There is a thing that hurts my nose: in almost every lightsaber form article we have, Darth Vader is stated to have implemented elements of all other forms into his Form V technique. The Makashi page for example states that he implemented Makashi moves into his Form V, which obviously cannot be true since he couldn't have been trained in it. What's the source? - TopAce 21:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I assume it's the fact that Vader uses a single handed style in Empire. Bahlete on grounds of shameless fanwankery, I say. .  .  .  .  22:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In case of Makashi, yes. But he appears as a practitioner of other forms like Soresu or Ataru. - TopAce 22:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

A image that should be added to appearence.


This one. Mostly on the grounds that in the article we have an image of Jedi Ani, Dark Side Ani, Cooked Ani, but no Old Ani, which shows what he looks like in his final minutes. Something to help the description given. I would add it but the page as been protected for a while (as I have seen.).
 * What about Image:Fatherson.jpg? It's located in the correct spot for this picture to be placed. 12:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

sorry
I didn't notice that the articles were merged, not too too long ago they were separate articles, my mistake.  You Lose Talk to me! 02:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's an interesting proposal: I think the darth vader and anakin skywalker articles should be separated. The article is simply too long for the casual reader. I think it would be to the reader's benifit to break the long article into bite-sized portions. Of course, it would still be fine to include info about Darth Vader in the Skywalker article and vice versa. The article is definitely too long as it is. Wookieisawesome 11:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you read Palpatine? In any case, we just had a vote a few motnhs ago, and it was decided to combine them. Leave 'em as is. Chack Jadson 19:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know about the vote. Too bad. Wookieisawesome 11:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry Wookieisawesome. I think that we should start a new vote. You can vote below. LukeSkywalker 11:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The Ultimate Vote
Hi, LukeSkywalker here. I think that there should be two articles, one for Anakin and one for Vader. Anakin was part of the light side, while Darth Vader was part of the dark side. Although they're the same person, they just don't mix! As Obi-Wan said, Darth Vader "killed" Anakin, so Anakin was always good. Anyway, I say that we have a vote to see whether Darth Vader should be made into a separate article or not. Voice your choice, and May the Force be with you! LukeSkywalker 11:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No. This vote has been had. It's been decided to keep it as one. Chack Jadson 00:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * ... What Chack said. LukeSkywalker, don't start votes on an issue that had been solved by a vote not too long ago. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As much as I would like to see them as separate articles, like Jack and Chack said, it's been decided already to keep them as one. - JMAS 01:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: Do not vote for any of the options. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)