Talk:Darth Caedus/Archive4

Jedi guardian
why jacen is listed as a guardian, is fanon or what? Camar skywalker 22:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently it is cannon, from what I saw in the Jedi Guardian article. And guys please sign your comments and questions. --Petiflo 13:10, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Cannon go boom!  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 20:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Tenal Ka
What year did they get married?

They didn't. And please sign your name on talk pages. Firebird 04:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

SorryMeesa yoda 19:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i was wondering that same thing? Well i guess ishouldn't have started with the legacy of the Force series!!! I was reading it and I am like who the heck is she? oops:^)<**>ewokmenace

Wasn't Caedus in disguise when he was kidnapping Allana?
 * Yes he was.Darth Balls 08:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Inferno Spoilers
Not sure where else to put this, but there's a ton of stuff that has to be from Inferno after the end of the "Sacrifice" part of the article. I'm not sure how to tag it as spoiler, so hopefully someone who can do it sees this. --64.246.248.32 14:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * R those pages from sacrifice or inferno mabey u just got a bad copy no offense i got a book one time missin 4 pages alltogether<**>

Sith Saber
It's stated in the spoilers that Jacen ended up creating a new saber with the traditional red sith crystal. I've just finished Inferno and nowhere in the book, or the preview for the next one does it state that he was building a new saber. As has been seen in the alternate ending of the Episode III Game, and a few other places I can't think of off the top of my head. Not all Sith build their sabers, some are gifted them from their Masters. So I would say at this point that is conjecture, unless there is a verifiable source of this statement.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink 21:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummmmmm clearly one cannon source is verifiable and present, Jacen's Profile Picture, which is from the upcoming book Revelations, and though you can't really state he went on to make one, you can state he'd go on to use one, so yeah.. DawnStrike 21:30 3 September (UTC)
 * Even more, if you bothered to read the sentence at all you would have noticed that it says Jacen would eventually acquire a new lightsaber and use a traditional red Sith crystal... so yeah.... congrats?Darth Balls 20:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It actually does mention that Caedus is making a Sith saber. When Leia, Han and the rest of the strike team board the Anakin Solo, the infiltrate the secert workshop of Caedus to get to Alanna, Leia notices a new lightsaber near completeion but thinks its for Ben, when he supposedly would have returned to Caedus and the GAG.

Wait a second, if Jacen lost his lightsaber during the duel with Luke, what did he stab Kyle Katarn with? He probably has a backup saber I guess, but I thought I'd point that out. 21:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC-8)
 * Did Luke Take Jacen's Saber? hmm ill have to do some re-reading. Hey does any one know who's on the cover of Fury because it looks like Jacen but does Jacen have a blue saber i thought it was green. (mabey i should finish the book) i can't wait for Revelation or Invincible*<:) <**>
 * That's Ben on the cover of Fury, and yes Jacen does have a green lightsaber, but he lost it at the end of Inferno. Jaina Leia Mara 21:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * finally someone whos actually responded to any of my messagesoh <**> thanks [ewokmenace]

Infobox image
Okay. Lets face it. Darth Caedus' image is a piece of shit. It is. It looks like the boy is chewing on gum after smoking some really bad pot as a 14 year old. Needs to be changed. I know there are many who say "it's the most recent!". The only thing I have to say in response to that is that I don't give a damn. Previous consensus on this matter is whatever looks best. So just hope the community feels the same way. -- Redemption  Talk 01:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Image #2

 * 1) Image 4 is overrated (come to think of it, with the exception of Jaina, the JP Joiner King cover is not to my taste). Firebird 14:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Image #4

 * 1) Doesn't look like a child. Looks old enough to actually be able to father children. Expression has "cheery" disposition.  Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 01:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Graestan concurs. - Graestan  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( This party's over ) 01:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) This one also concurs.--Goodwood 01:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) This is the only picture of Jacen I've seen in which he looks like an adult. Plus, isn't the Revelation image inaccurate now that Inferno's been released? Didn't Jacen get part of his face sliced off? Israi 15:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) He does look like an adult here. --Petiflo 17:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) I concur Meesa yoda 17:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) I agree as well DarthPraxus 12:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) In favor, for now. Hopefully, we'll get something good from the Japanese covers. DarthSanctimonious 15:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) This is probably the only good image of him that exist, the legacy one makes him look like some skinny wrist cutting emo.--\\Captain KAJ// 20:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Jaina Leia Mara 16:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * umm well isnt that a image that "takes place" in the Joiner King? So yeah he is like 26years old<**>--ewokmenace Single issue voter, and he voted for both.  Hobbes ( Tiger's Lair ) 16:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Image #5

 * 1) I personally like this picture. Maybe it's because Betrayal was the first book I read with Jacen in it....  DarthDragon164 [[Image:Black dragon.JPG|20px]]talk![[Image:Black dragon.JPG|20px]]164 06:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Current

 * 1) Darth Vatrir-I like this one because its both the most up to date, and its stylish and intimidating, quite appropriate for the newest addition to the roster of psychotic, power-crazed maniacs.
 * 2) Darth Balls-Since this is the most up-to-date (though the book's not out yet) and captures what Jacen has become. Though 4 is a close second.Darth Balls 05:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) DawnStrike-I'm for this one. It's not bad, and it's the most accurate, official, and current potrayal of him.--DawnStrike 03:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) QuentinGeorge 12:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC) It's an official picture. It's the latest official picture. Take your "it sucks" complaints elsewhere. QuentinGeorge 12:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) *I'm not sure if that was a shot at my expense but either way. If it sucks...it doesn't belong in the infobox. I believe we had a consensus on this. And I apologize if I at least try to make the article look better...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 19:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Oyam5000 16:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) The current is the best image. It is the most up-to-date, and alot better than the lame ones that have been in his profile pic for FAR TOO LONG. Darth Byss 13:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) As abominable as it is, he's just undergone a major change. Keep the Sith image, I say, and let's hope the Japanese rendition gets here on a wing and a prayer. Thefourdotelipsis 14:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) As the most recent canonical rendition, I have to default to this one. Even though he does look like he's chewing tobacco. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 14:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) I have to agree with KAJ, who voted for Image #4...this is the only image that makes him look like the wrist curring emo that he is. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 14:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) If he currently looks like a tobacco chewing emo kid then his article should reflect that he looks like a tobacco chewing emo kid. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 15:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This one is easily the best --ShadowEdgeX 08:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ha he looks like hes gona puke no offenseewokmenace See comment on Image 4.  Hobbes ( Tiger's Lair ) 16:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Def. keep this one. Shows off his Sithy~ness. Tam 20:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) havalynii-I think this one looks dumb, but it IS canon and it's the only one where he looks decidedly evil (or Dark Side-like, depending on whether you consider that evil). I like #5 the best personally, but he looks too nice, and in #4 he looks like Daniel from Stargate.  So I (regrettably) vote for this one. Havalynii 17:54, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments
Regarding infobox images it should be a case of wether an image is good or not and the legacy one is pathetic.--\\Captain KAJ// 18:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Name on his page
SINCE JACEN HAS CEASED TO BE JACEN SOLO, THE PAGE SHOULD BE TITLED DARTH CAEDUS. AM I RIGHT? YES I AM. PLEASE REPLY, SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * Alright first : no need to use caps, we can read you just fine without them. Second : could you please sign your comments. Third : hmm I think you're right, since Lumiya's page is titled "Lumiya" and not "Shira Brie", just as Darth Krayt's page isn't titled "A'Sharad Hett", maybe the page should be renamed "Darth Caedus" for the sake of uniformity. Either that either rename the two others I mentionned. Petiflo 17:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Throughout Inferno he refers to himself as Caedus not Jacen Solo and so I think the title of this article should reflect this. Grunny (Talk) 09:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Jacen Solo is dead...There is only Darth Caedus. Darth Byss 03:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not only does every other character's POV refer to him as Jacen, but the Dramatis Personae (OFFICIAL, and not from a POV) refers to him as such. We leave the page where it is. Firebird 06:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe we can not go by any definite standard. Even people at LFL are referring to Jacen as Darth Caedus. Plus nobody IU knows that Jacen is a Sith Lord, much less know his name. Darth Caedus believes Jacen is dead. Take Palpatine for example...what was his true name...Darth Sidious, but we keep it at Palpatine because it was the name he was first called by and the name mostly known. Darth Tyranus we call Count Dooku because that is what he was known by IU and OOU. However, IU both of Caedus's parents consider Jacen dead, so does Luke, and Darth Caedus himself believes his old self is dead, and regardless of any standard or what not, the issue has always been what people WANT to call a character. Darth Bane was known as Darth Bane. He left his old identity behind. We do not call him by his birth name because he remade and renamed himself. This is why we shouldn'y call Darth Bane anything else but DARTH BANE. Darth Vader died when he turned back to the light and became Anakin Skywalker once more. Now how was he most known OOU? He is known mostly as Darth Vader. My point is this, we can not give an absolute standard and definition for this issue because it is subjective to a number of facts. You must use discernment. I believe this page should be moved to Darth Caedus because of IU reasons and author intent. Also you can not say that a Dramatis Personae over rides everything else we know. You will run into many problems if you hold that as standard. The issue should have been settled by this statement alone:

"Caedus...my name is Darth Caedus"

and by rights both IU and OOU, a person has a right to change there name and identitfy themselves with a new name, regardless of what other people knew them by before. Darth Caedus's rise has been along time coming. You can see it even from the beginning. He always had a sort of attitude that basically said that he was right and that his view was the only view. You can see it in his arguements with Anakin Solo and his disagreements with his uncle and sister. He thinks himself greater than he truly is, believes his way is best and that he knows what is best for everyone. You can even observe Darth Caedus trying to deny what he knew in his heart to be true all along when he was captured by Vergere. She made him acknowledge his darkness. You saw the cognitive dissonance he suffered in his denial but he finally accepted it, not because it was objectively true, but because deep down he wanted it to be true. Why? Freedom. No longer would he have to worry about good and bad, right and wrong, and other such issues. He would do what was right in his own eyes. It gave him what he wanted...power and control over his own life and destiny, or at least, the illusion of it. Even a quick read between the loving Jacen Solo and the ruthless Darth Caedus, you can observed the shift in identity, and it is significant enough that it appears that a new character entirely has been created. The personalities between Jacen and Caedus differ enough, IMO, to justify the move from the article being under Jacen Solo, to it's appropriate title of Darth Caedus. Darth Byss 15:14, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

LFL may have chosen his Sith name, but the only time he's referred to as such is from his POV. And yes, I do generally take the DP as standard. Leave the page where it is until such a time when any DP refers to him via his Sith name.  Firebird  Phoenix Rising 17:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No matter what the DP says, he is gone. He acknowledge it himself as well as his parents. The only reason why only himself refers to him as Darth Caedus is because no one else knows him by this name. Petiflo 12:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That is POV though. The DP is not, and more accurate in general.  Firebird  Phoenix Rising [[Image:Era-njo.png|20px]] 12:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It seems that our trend here is to call a Sith by the name that the galaxy knows them best as. At this time, the galaxy thinks it's Jacen, and therefore I think we should keep it as Jacen unless Caedus comes into more common use.131.229.185.43 21:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

wow!! powerfull speach<**>ewokmenace
 * Jacen is a Sith and there is a good chance that he will stay a Sith. Not just Jacen but all Sith should be refered to on wookieepedia by their Sith name unless they were redeemed. Jacen Solo is dead there is only Darth Caedus. Darth Nezzera ( In umbris potestas est )[[Image:Sith_Emblem.svg|30px]] 15:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not only that but you have yet demonstrated how POV is incorrect and DP is not. The DP once labled Lumiya as a Dark Jedi, when she was specifically refered to as being a Sith. Besides, if this is a majority decission, then you really can't stop it (no offense). So please demonstrate for us why the DP is reliable and not POV. DarthMalus 14:13, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine, I'll state it in simple words: WE DO NOT MOVE THE PAGE UNTIL AN ADMIN APPROVES. You're also ignoring the fact that my above post is over two months old.  Firebird  [[Image:Moltresheadsig.PNG]] Phoenix Rising 14:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * TOTALY FACE IT PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISHED IT WOULD NOT COME TO THIS IT HAS JACEN IS DEAD TO ALL REPLACED BY A MONSTER OF EVIL, DARTH CADEUS


 * Unless Jacen is redeemed, the article should be labeled "Darth Caedeus". Kraytt has his Sith name as the head title. Anakin's article isn't named "Darth Vader" because he was redeemed. Jedi Striker 14:22, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Would everyone PLEASE read this EVERYONE IN-UNIVERSE KNOWS HIM AS Jacen Solo AND SINCE THE ARTICLE IS WRITTEN FROM AN IN-UNIVERSE PERSPECTIVE THEY WOULD STILL LABEL HIM AS SUCH. Thank You.Darth Balls 20:33, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * So, now that Revelation is out, will we change this? Charlii 09:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Darth Caedus revealed himself AS Darth Caedus to Shevu. Everyone knows he's Darth Caedus now. The name needs to be changed. 128.205.223.120 21:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)RevanCaedus
 * Yes, he explicitly asked Shevu and Tahiri to use his new name, which means that other people in the GAG and the higher command will hear it shortly (I think the bridge crew on the Anakin already did?). Also, his family (and by that the Jedi order) and Boba Fett all heard the recording and know his true identity by now. Charlii 22:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that it should stay "Jacen Solo" for now, because the Legacy of the Force series hasn't yet been completed, so who's to say he won't go back to the light, or reject Caedus as his name before the series ends? Maybe it is best to just wait and see what happens with the character before cementing a label on him, since his life and storyline in-universe is still ongoing. (Zadi 22:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)) (Zadi)

It should be Caedus. If you read the excerpt for Invincible even JAINA refers to and thinks of him as Caedus. His own twin sister. Everyone in the Universe now knows him as Caedus. If this were actually IN-Universe he would demand it be titled Darth Caedus. This needs to be changed now.128.205.223.120 06:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)Darth Nikolai

I think this page must be renamed in Jacen Solo, Jaina said that in his lasts seconds before his death he wasn't Caedus but Jacen, Tenel Ka confirmed this. --81.69.239.209 15:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but he died as Caedus. This issue has been decided; there was no indication that he died as Jacen. Jaina only thought that he died as Jacen, and until that is proven (which I doubt it will be), the article remains at Darth Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 18:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, unless one of the authors specifically says that he was redeemed and went back to being Jacen, the article should stay Darth Caedus  Jaina Leia Mara Jedi Knight

Redemption
Will Jacen be redeemed by his family or will he simply stay a Sith and be killed by Krayt for being worthless in his order? Revan became a Sith Master and he was redeemed (though only because Malak destroyed parts of his mind). Perhaps Jacen could be redeemed as well. I know Invincible is 6 months away, but I just want to be sure. - Will Karner 9:42 A.M., 21 November 2007

Here are a few reasons why you should put the Jedi info-box back in, along with adding the "Redeemed Jedi" category as well:


 * Knowing the Skywalker family, Jacen would have to follow the family tradition and turn back to the light someday.


 * It's not Jacen's fault he turned to the dark side. Vergere and Lumiya twisted his mind in the first place, just like Sidious did grandpa Anakin.-Fault? Why do you need to find fault at all? That exactly what Gotab seemed to have a problem with in Revelation.The moral blame game.Its as much his "fault" as it was Lumiya's,and not nearly so much Vergere's.


 * The love for his offspring can redeem Jacen, knowing little Allana's age and innocence.

I hope this is "sourceful" enough for this, guys. - Will Karner 13:01 P.M., 24 November 2007

Sorry, no not really.Meesa yoda 20:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It would be interesting to see Jacen actually end up differently from his grandfather or uncle and remain lost to the Dark Side forever. That would seem more original and refreshing but that's only my opinion. Of course no other main character is supposed to die in the series so If he did stay evil he would have to be imprisoned or go into exile which seems unlikely. - Weyd 3:45 P.M., November 27, 2007


 * hey no offense i think Ben needs to put a vibrodagger through his heart and get it over with.....yet mabey i don't<**>ewokmenace

I honestly think that Jaina will not kill him. I don't think that the Star Wars universe has it in "it" to have one sibling kill another. But then again, who would have thought they would have him kill Mara? I think Jaina will bring him back to the light, then maybe he will go into exile. Also, something must happen with Allana, she seems to be a strong motivating factor for Jacen. I also think it would be extremely lame to kill Jacen and have him turn back to the light side just like Darth Vader before his death. We have seen that too many times. I think it would be even cooler to have him be a "good sith", and leave his position of power, but still be a Sith Lord, just not an evil one. This would follow with his thoughts on the force from NJO, where there is no light or dark, just the Force itself. That would be interesting...(Zadi 22:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)) (Zadi)

Death
I think Jaina is gonna kill him, or Han. - Revan rocks Caedus sucks December 2 2007

What about Krayt? He despises Jacen for being a cheap imitation of a Dark Lord. Perhaps when Caedus does meet the New Sith Order for the first time, his death would probably be like this:

Caedus: (relieved) Oh, my fellow Sith...

Dician: "Fellow Sith?" (laughs) I thought our master said he was the enemy, Lord Wyyrlok.

Wyyrlok I: Yes, my dear. That was what I heard from him

Caedus: (shocked) "Master?"

Wyyrlok: Release the Sith hounds.

''Cage opens. A pack of Sith hounds slowly prowls on Caedus. Caedus begins to reach for his lightsaber, but the belt was weaponless. A shadow of Caedus' demise is shown on the cliffs of Korriban.''

How's that for a death scene? Well you gotta admit, Wyyrlok I would need a first appearance. - Will Karner 8:57 P.M., 4 December 2007
 * Both of these posts are fannon and opinion. Please stop with the fannon and take opinions to the Senate Hall.Darth Balls 02:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, don't take opinions to the Senate Hall. Take them to a forum away from Wookieepedia, where they belong. Hobbes ( Tiger's Lair ) 02:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Please don't get overly negative and answer my opinions, will you? I'm only a sophomore, you know. - Will Karner 11:22 P.M., 4 November 2007
 * Age is no excuse to disregard rules and what you have been ordered to do. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 04:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank You for the support but I don't have the authority to order, I try to remind people that the talk pages is for article-betterment discussion and none of this <^>. Again PLEASE leave fannon out of Wookiepeedia and opinion on the Forum.Darth Balls 19:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The forum is not for opinion either&mdash; it's for questions about the wiki. Save the speculation for a "real" forum, not an encyclopedia. Hobbes ( Tiger's Lair ) 02:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * hey doesn't Jaina track down Boba and she wants him to train her?ewokmenace

Name Change
I really think we should change the title to Darth Caedus. As Caedus states himself: "Caedus. My name is Caedus." Maxi6 00:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * We already have this discussion on this talk page, but here's it again. Everyone else In-Universe knows him as Jacen, so we leave it Jacen. Everyone In-Universe (and out for that matter) knows Palpatine as Palpatine, not Darth Sidious, so the page is Palpatine. Same goes for Count Dooku, though Anakin Skywalker is known as Darth Vader by most everyone he has been redeemed and is mainly referred to as Anakin by major characters, so it's Anakin. By-the-by please search the talk page for a topic before creating a new one. Thank You.Darth Balls 00:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I still say we change it to Darth Caedus. I understand why you want to keep the name at Jacen Solo, but technically Jacen Solo is dead.Maxi6 00:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * Technically Jacen is dead, but literally everyone knows him as Jacen, sorry.Darth Balls 05:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

So he's going to be known by who people think he is, not who he is?Maxi6 20:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * Everyone KNOWS him as Jacen so that's what the page is, notice that all articles are past tense? That's because this happened A Long Time Ago... and that's IN-UNIVERSE not here out-of-universe. Everyone IN-UNIVERSE knows him as Jacen, so this database chronicles (read: reports the past) this accordingly.Darth Balls 22:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * uhh you people we went through this already did we notewokmenace

How about a compromise...something like "Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus" or "Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo". It seems so trivial to argue about it ...sheesh. Zadi 21:13, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

New Sith Order?
How can we put the New Sith Order as one of his affiliations when he hasn't even met these Sith yet? He's probably going to die or get redeemed anyway, and Alema Rar died, so she couldn't warn Caedus about these Sith or give Caedus their "gift" for him. Besides, it is obvious he believes strongly in the Rule of Two as indicated in Inferno. Any thoughts?--Zhran 03:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's bogus, and if there's no source for it, it should be deleted. Darth Bassan94 15:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course Jacen's in the New Sith Order, but he doesn't know that yet. The Rule of Two was dissolved years ago by Krayt and that means it would be bad luck for Jacen when or if he ever finds out. Besides, the New Sith don't want him to join them because he's a cheap imitation of a Dark Lord and an idiot. What do you think? - Will Karner 5:29 P.M, 22 December 2007
 * I don't think that Jacen's in the New Sith Order, he believes he's in Darth Bane's Order and the New Sith don't want him. So there's my 2 cents.Darth Balls 00:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

another thing whats with all the "hey i thought only two sith at a time","no we are one" i mean come onewokmenace
 * Alema dies????? hu imagine that i never would have guessed


 * Well, Caedus definitely isn't in Krayt's Sith order,which is the 'New Sith Order'. Really at this time we have two different Sith Orders. Caedus's and Krayt's.  DarthDragon164 [[Image:Black dragon.JPG|20px]]talk![[Image:Black dragon.JPG|20px]]164 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Error
This first part doesn't make any sense, the second needs to be clarified.

"Jacen pretended to plan to offer up Ganner as a gift to the True Gods, killing him within the Well of the World Brain. But Jacen had something else in mind entirely.

"Jacen gave Ganner Anakin's lightsaber, giving him the choice of exactly how to use it."

I also corrected a section under Galactic Alliance Guard to specify that it was Jacen who killed Vel, previously it said Solo, then mentioned Ben being shocked by his action, not specifed, leading people to believe it was Ben who killed her. Sephiroth Kali 18:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Caedus
Is it pronounced Say-dus or Kay-dus? Cos I'm not sure. Jaina Leia Mara 21:49, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * technically its(kay-dus) so yes didn't u even check out the darth who contest?<**>? ewokmenace oris it? this is where my honors classes should com in handy lets see but i thin it should be kay because then it sounds different from sidius (yes thats probrably spelt wrong


 * I believe it is "Ki-dus", as that's how it would be pronounced in Latin. Bozeas The C isn't pronounced as an S. That much I know.


 * Actually "Caedus" in Latin would be pronounced "Kee-dus", as in the original spelling of "encyclopedia", "encyclopaedia". But I do believe that "Kay-dus" is correct, albeit this isn't typical for Latin (of course, I'm not sure how much weight is given to Latin phonetics in Star Wars).
 * Please sign your comments with four tildes (~) Havalynii and Bozeas. The same goes for 71.197.13.15, because although you're an anonymous user, it's still good for peopl to know that it's an anonymous user posting. Marco Lam  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]]( Contact ) 03:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Audio Excerpt 72.76.158.156 02:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The dipthong ae is prononced as an 'eye' in latin. Going by that It would be Ki-dus.  The Random House audio also pronounces it Ki-dus


 * That's /kaɪdəs/ in IPA. 62.34.35.193 14:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Turning into his old grandpapy?
Is Jacen really becoming more like grandpa Anakin when he keeps getting step by step into the dark side or just a lot less? That's what I'd like to know. 68.228.149.192 03:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay... Doesn't anyone have an idea when the Jedi are going to tell him that Jacen was acting like grandpa Anakin? Not even half as good or better than the Sith Lord? If so, then Jacen would feel really insulted. When they would say something like that? I don't know... 68.228.149.192 00:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He knows he's acting like Anakin, he knows he looks like Vader with his Black Fatigues and his Black Cloak. He's purposefully making that parallel to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. No one needs to tell him he's like Anakin because that's his goal. By the way, no one in the Jedi Order knows he's a Sith, they just think he's turned Dark, more specifically only Jacen knows he's a Sith. And to answer your questions, Yes he's becoming more like Anakin. I think they'll confront him in Revelation, seeing as the title is Revelation and they may have one about his turn to the Dark Side of the Force. He's not really better or worse, seeing he's only a few months into his Sith reign. Again, Revelation.Darth Balls 08:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but when Jaina will finally confront her evil twin in Invincible, she might tell him that "if he'd have half the good Grandfather had inside, he'd never let the Sith control his mind forever." And let me guess: Caedus would get more angry and shout, "he has 20 times the good Grandfather had inside!" Only a duel between twins would decide his fate: Redemption or die in darkness.

Sorry if you think this worthless, but it's my best shot of having Caedus be like Scar. So we had better "Be Prepared..." 68.228.149.192 12:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The picture of Caedus fighting Jaina
Where does this come from?
 * The cover of Invincible. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 20:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

OK 2 things about this guy
1. I pesonaly think their trying to milk the Vader story. Like Anakin, Jacen is an insecure, obnoxious, emo kid with issues who becomes a sith to satisfy his hunger for power who will either die a terrible firey death :) or be redeemed, forgiven and every1 will play happy and nice. Your problem with people who actually struggle over moral issues speaks of insecurity."Hunger for power"-way to go making things up to make you feel better for condemning him

2. How does a worthless monkey like him kill Mara Jade?-Yes because of course characters you think are awesome are immune to being killed by characters you dont like.


 * First of all, this is the talk page, for talking about the Article not the actual(lol) person. Secondly, of course they're milking his Skywalker lineage everyone up to and including Jacen acknowledge and say that he's turning into his grandfather. He may be insecure and obnoxious but he's not an emo kid, give me proof he's a cutter etc. For your second point, don't call people monkeys that's racist, and no one's invincible in Star Wars-save for Luke, cause Lucas said so-they've been trying to instill that in all of the EU readers since Vector Prime when they offed the Walking Carpet. So Jacen fully had the power to kill Mara as does he have the potential to kill his parents, cousin, sister, lover or any and all of his friends. To conclude don't talk about the person, talk about the Article.Darth Balls 15:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * First off what he said, secondly, yes, and they're not doing a good job of it because so far he's been almost killed by Luke, Mara, and Carid. Maybe they should think about having him win a fight for once. (Luckyluke37 20:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC))

Tahiri Veila
Does Caedus really take her on as a Sith apprentice? Doe she tell her that he is the Dark Lord? Because in her article, it says that she is a Dark Jedi and a potential Sith.--Jedi Kasra 02:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * First please mark spoilers shomehow, second let's wait until the book releases or someone to elaborate that actually has the book.Darth Balls 04:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Name change, Rnd. 2
All right, now that the Invincible summary is saying that he's using his Sith name publicly, do we at least consider moving the page? I myself am trying to stay neutral on the issue now, so I'm not taking the initiative. On a related note, could someone please post the consensus track (I think) on naming conventions? Thanks.  Firebird  Phoenix Rising 10:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This is written from an in-galaxy POV right? in this story arch people are still referring to Jacen and Jacen, though i will concede that Luke (if memory serves) said something along the lines of "...or Darth Caedus as he refers to himself...", he and everyone else (even in the preview to Invincible) referred to him as Jacen. As always, I vote for the no-name-change until in the histories in-galaxy cite him as Darth Caedus.Darth Balls 09:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The "as Jacen called himself now" was Jaina recognizing that Darth Caedus is not a separate entity but is her brother. As it is surrounded by commas, the sentace could stand alone without what's inside them and hence it would read "Darth Caedus had to be stopped." Jaina has recognized her brother as Darth Caedus. Caedus demands to be referred to by his sith name, the galaxy knows him as Caedus now. It doesn't matter whether everyone wants to think of him as Jacen still. Like I said, if this were actually in-universe, Caedus would demand that it read Darth Caedus. It needs to be changed.Darth Nikolai 22:17, 2 March 2008 (UTC)Darth Nikolai
 * I agree with Darth Nikolai Jacen Solo needs to be changed to Darth Caedus. He announced himself as that new name, and that is how he is known.--Darth Revanon 5:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's my two cents. Until the book Legacy of the Force: Invincible comes out and we find out the final fate of Caedus, we shouldn't change the name. I think it's supposed to come out on May 13th, so we can wait a little while longer. Oh, by the way, Darth Nikolai, you don't have to put sign your name after you use the four tildes.--Jedi Kasra 22:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea that is true. So your saying that when the Dramatis Personae of Invincible comes out which sould be in the beginning of may, if it Just states Darth Caedus and no Jacen, we change it??--Darth Revanon 5:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No. We need to know what happens to Darth Caedus, whether he lives or dies as Jacen Solo or Darth Caedus, redeemed or not redeemed, since there is a chance he might go in exile as a Sith, but who knows? Anything can happen. Still, we shouldn't switch it untl we find out whether he goes back to being called Jacen Solo or not.--Jedi Kasra 23:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, if you guys don't mind I'll be changing the name of this subject to "Name Change, Rnd. 2", since, if you look a few sections above, there is already a section called "Name Change".--Jedi Kasra 23:07, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the thing though, he is best known NOW as Caedus. It's what he demands to be referred to as. The most up to date information is him sharing his Sith name, not just with his apprentice or in musings to himself, but with his underlings and asking that he be known as Caedus and addressed as My Lord, (when not on duty of course). Therefore for the article to be up to date it must read Darth Caedus. (Oh and thanks Kasra)Darth Nikolai 23:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, problem, Darth Nikolai. The thing is, even though he is known as Caedus now, what will he be known by as soon as this series is over? Say he is redeemed. I highly doubt he, Luke, or the Jedi would want anyone else still calling him "Darth Caedus". I think that's why Wookieepedia merged the Darth Vader article into Anakin Skywalker's article, even though most people in the universe know him better as Darth Vader, the galaxy eventually did find out that Anakin was Vader. Suppose we move the article to "Darth Caedus", then we find out in May that he becomes redeemed? Then, in my opinion, the move will have been a waste, since it would be moved back to his current name.--Jedi Kasra 23:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with what ure saying Kasra, but if we change his name to Darth Caedus now for the time being, it wudnt be that hard 2 change his name back to Jacen again if he was redeemed. so that is probably why we should just keep it as Darth Caedus for a little while like until may, then if there is for example a spoiler that says what will happen to Caedus (which im sure there will be) then we change it back to Jacen if we need to, or keep it as Caedus if thats the way it is supposed to be. But right now, as we know in the end of Revelation and the sneak peek of Invincible hes refered to Caedus by everyone and in the summary that we have of Invincible he is now known openly as Caedus and also there is the fact that the Imperials are on Caedus's side and, just like in episodes 4, 5, and 6 and the books that are with the actual Darth Vader, he is referred to as My Lord or Lord Vader, just like I bet that Caedus will be as we saw in Revelation with the conversation with him and Lon Shevu saying that he would now like to be called My Lord or somthing along those lines.--Darth Revanon 8:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly, the way I see it, there's no need to MOVE the article. Darth Caedus WAS Jacen Solo. He isn't any longer, but that is his history. Change the name for now at least because that is what's current IN-UNIVERSE. if come may, he becomes Jacen again, well then change it back, it's not that difficult and it gives those of us who love Caedus as Caedus a chance to sleep at night ;-) Plus, let's be logical, if Caedus was going to be redeemed, Traviss would've been writing the last book. The other two others make him seem like a crazed monster. Denning's not likely to redeem Caedus. Darth Nikolai 06:43, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And since when do we wait for the next part to be published before we update an article? Isn't one goal of this 'pedia to be as up-to-date as possible? Charlii 16:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not opposed changing the name of the article now, but I think it would probably be best to wait until Invincible is out, and besides, his family will always refer to him as Jacen.Tank 17:10, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do the Galactic Alliance citznes as a whole call Jacen "Darth Caedus"? Or do the soldiers with whom he serves call him Caedus? The citizens know him better as Jacen Solo and would attribute his demands to be called "Darth Caedus" as the rantings of a madman, not a legitimate demand from a Sith Lord. Excluding the Jedi, those that previously served with Jacen (such as Cha Niathal) and those in the Galactic Alliance Guard, ony a few people know he's Sith. He's better known as Jacen Solo. For 31 years he was known as Jacen Solo, not Caedus. In the S.W. universe, no one save for Darth Sidious, Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and a very few others knew Darth Vader was previously Anakin Skywalker. Yes, Jacen Solo (for the time being) is dead. I just don't want us to go on a limb by changing the title of the article, only to have us (perhaps) be wrong the day Invincible comes out. Maybe setting up a poll wouldn't be a bad idea. But it would have to be in the Senate Hall, where everyone can have access to it.--Jedi Kasra 19:50, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with what Darth Nikolai said about Denning not being likely to have Caedus redeemed 2 Jacen again. Because denning killed anakin solo, who says that he cant kill another solo kid?? Jacen is gone completly for the time being, so we need 2 update his page by having it say Darth Caedus. And it doesnt matter that the GAG and the GA citizens dont know his real name. its only important that the main characters know. Oh and Jedi Kasra wats a senate poll cuz im still learning things in wookieepedia?? and I also agree with Chaarlii at the part were he said that This site should always be updated and it would if Jacen Solo was changed 2 Darth Caedus.--Darth Revanon 8:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * However, we don't deal in speculation on Wookieepedia, whether Denning will kill Caedus or not. We can't change it just on specualtion on what we think Troy Denning will do or not do. And to answer your question, Revanon, the Senate Hall is "a site-wide discussion area meant for topics concerning Wookieepedia." You could have a discussion on whether or not we should change this article's name or not, and everybody will have access to it. I 'll put up the forum on there so everyone can have access to it.--Jedi Kasra 22:43, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * O.K. I put up the forum called Forum:Name change for Jacen Solo at the Senate Hall. You can go there if you like.--Jedi Kasra 23:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The True Sacrifice?
In the book Revelation it says that his slaying of Mara Skywalker and the loss of Ben's adulation was not his real sacrifice. On Pg. 71 it says this:

"While he was still Jacen Solo, Caedus had been warned that command—rule—was lonely, but now he knew what Tenel Ka meant when she told him it was the price of being a leader. He was utterly alone now, rejected even by his daughter, Allana. That...that was my sacrifice. He had convinced himself that it was Mara Skywalker. Then he had convinced himself that it was Ben's adulation he'd sacrificed by killing her. Now he knew that whatever the ancient Sith tassels had prophesied in their arcane language of knots and colors, his sacrifice was an ordinary man's precious connection to other beings—love, trust, and intimacy . He could never recover any of it. Allana was gone from him forever. His only comfort was that the galaxy would be safer for her."

- Excerpt from Legacy of the Force: Revelation

The article should reflect this new belief of his.--Jedi Kasra 00:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Saber Skills
"Caedus considered himself the best lightsaber duelist of his time, second only to Luke Skywalker." So then he considered himself second best, right? The quoted sentence is totally contradictory. You don't consider yourself to be the best at anything if you consider yourself to be second to anyone! You consider yourself second best. The line should be changed to read "Caedus considered himself the second best lightsaber duelist of his time, second only to Luke Skywalker." or something like that, or else it should be deleted entirely, and I for one know which option I favor. SpartHawg948 12:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the point is that Caedus thinks Luke was the best, but now his skill has declined with age. Darth Bassan94 15:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * the phrase "of HIS time" means Jacen's generation not luke's. and i believe that the "second only to luke..." bit means that he's second overall.Darth Balls 06:31, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * My point is that Jacen considers himself the best of his time, but not as good as Luke was in times past. Darth Bassan94 14:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

"Bring peace to the galaxy"
What does Jacen mean by what he said about making the galaxy peaceful again? Have the Sith die along with him and Tahiri? That'll be suicide!! But I don't know. Anyone got a clue? 131.109.225.3 20:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember that Palpatine wanted to bring peace to the galaxy as well. I think it's all point of view. The Jedi think that when the Sith are gone, the galaxy will be peaceful, and the Sith think that when the Jedi are gone and the Sith themselves rule the galaxy, it will be peaceful (more accurately, stable). Grand Moff Tranner 21:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The Jedi maintain the balance between good and evil (becuase peace cannot exist without conflict), while the Sith belive that if they destroy freedom than that will bring preace to the galaxy! ~ Awar 15:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC).

Stat Card Image
I really think that the card image should be moved to another section, perhaps in the behind the scenes section. If no one has any objection, I'll go ahead and do it.--Jedi Kasra 02:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Jacen Solo on Wheels
Why is this article now called "Jacen Solo on Wheels"? Is it vandalism or is it something left over from April Fools Day? --Tom rules 11:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Vandalism. If you ever see something with "On Wheels" in the title, inform the admins right away. jSarek 11:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The jerk
Is it worth mentioning in BtS that Jacen is referred to as 'a jerk' in the fan community (and even official "sources" have allegedly referred to him as a jerk)? KEJ 11:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Wanna-be Sith Lord
Who else thinks that Jacen is a wanna-be Sith Lord? I mean, Darth Sidious was a better a Sith Lord, and that's coming from a guy who hates him.

 Drgns007 Sith Lord 21:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I tire of saying this, but alas, it must be said. If it doesn't directly involve the improvement of the article, don't put it here. Put that stuff on your userpage, or the forums, or Darthipedia, or anywhere else that accepts fan opinions as SW fact. Thank you, and good night. Darth Bassan94 23:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's like Darth Krayt saying that Caedus is the cheap imitation of his grandpa or even impersonating the role of Dark Lord while doesn't know that the New Sith Order existed yet. Who's the true Dark Lord during 40 ABY? Caedus or Krayt? 72.82.9.127 23:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically, both are. Caedus is the true Dark Lord according to the Rule of Two; Krayt, the Rule of One. I suppose Cadeus would be considered "more true" over Krayt, since the Rule of One is Krayt's invention. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say Caedus only, since he is the heir to the major Sith cult and doesn't know about Krayt's new one. Krayt, on the other hand, knows about Caedus but doesn't challange him. Without challenging the current holder of the title he can hardly claim it for himself. No source claims he did, either. And this is probably getting a bit off topic... Charlii 10:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Page move
Based on the quote from Tahiri Veila, shouldn't this be moved to Darth Caedus, finally? --Squishy Vic (discussion) (contributions) 06:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes it should. The current stance that we should wait for Invincible to be realsed is ridiculous. Right now this second he is Darth Caedus and noboady else, everyboady now knows him as Caedus and its what he demands to be known as, to use his own words his true name. Should we move Darth Krayt to Asharad Hett and wait until the end of the Legacy Comics in case he is redeemed, I think not. - KAJ – Talk 13:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, agreed. --Squishy Vic (discussion) (contributions) 22:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Drewton  22:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree as well. It needs to be Darth Caedus.--Darth Revanon 6:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, too. Besides, if Caedus gets redeemed (doubt it, but who knows), the page can always be moved back to Jacen Solo. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 13:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly regardless of what he may or may not be called by the end of Invincible right now he is Darth Caedus, and in order for us to be an accurate and up to date encyclopedia we need to call him that as well. - KAJ – Talk 19:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This has already been discussed before. Take a look here. Everybody does not know Jacen as Caedus.--Jedi Kasra 21:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They do now, remember? 131.109.225.3 19:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There are always spoilers on Wookieepedia. Darth Caedus is a more up-to-date/accurate title for the page.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 20:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * First all the solos and skywalker saw the hologram where he tells GAG Captain Lon Shevu to call him Darth Caedus so his family and the Jedi know him by that name. Also what I just said made it obvious that the military now no him as Darth Caedus. Finally the following quote "You may call me Darth Caedus. I shall be known only by my true name from now on" states that EVERYBODY will be calling him that. Also i'm sure he will not tolerate having to hear his old name again remember him wincing and getting aggravated everytime somone called him jacen after sacrifice? Steves490 20:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean everybody in real life, I meant everybody in universe, the GFFA, the One Sith, the Empire. He only told Shevu that he was Caedus, and Shevu in turn told the Solos and Skywalkers. Look, we only have a couple weeks until the book is released, can't we just wait and see what happens?--Jedi Kasra 02:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think Steves490 meant "everybody in real life." IMO, we have plenty of evidence to move this to Darth Caedus. Like I said before, it's not like we can't move this back if he gets redeemed. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was talking about people in universe, if this was about people in real life knowing his name the page would have been changed months ago. Steves490 06:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jedi Kasra, not everyone knows him as Darth Caedus yet, so we should wait for Invincible to come out  Jaina Leia Mara Jedi Knight
 * It seems to me quite obvious it should stay Jacen Solo. First reason is that he hasn't been a Sith Lord for a long enough time. Let him actually do something amazingly gruesome and horrid before we say that Jacen is theoretically dead. Second reason is, like mentioned before, that most still know Jacen as Jacen, and think about their surprise when they are redirected to a page titled "Darth". Nanook 15:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Caedus burned Kashyyyk, threatened to kill Allana, and tortured Ben. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 16:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Torture and threatening to kill is a daily record of a Sith, but also for other kinds of utilitarians. The burning of Kashyyyk is surely horrible, but I doubt that's enough. You might see it differently. All in all, it's an argument that will surely be settled in two weeks time. Nanook 11:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Grand Moff Tranner, I was adressing 131.109.225.3.'s comment above.--Jedi Kasra 20:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The page should say his name is Darth Caedus and the proof that we have that there is no more Jacen Solo is this: He killed Mara, which to me seems to be very horrid as she was his own aunt and that they were close. 2nd reason is Kashyyyk, and my third and probably most strongest arguement that his this page should be redirected to Darth Caedus is when hes says on page 154 in Revelation is Caedus' thoughts which are- Jacen Solo. Gone, now; not concealed. Gone, and never coming back--Darth Revanon 4:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I tend to disagree in this case. I'm a firm believer in keeping articles under the name which they're most prevalently called. To me, changing this to "Darth Caedus" now would be spitting on a dozen Bantam novels, all those torrid YJK books, the entire shebang of NJO, half a dozen sourcebooks and who knows what else based on three books. To make an analogy, that's why the creepy old witch is at "Kreia" instead of "Darth Traya". Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 22:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But all those books were made before Jacen became Darth Caedus. Going by what he's called in most books isn't accurate any longer. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Vader and Caedus
Two serious questions I have to ask: First, what did Vader have that Caedus doesn't have? And then, what does Caedus have that Vader didn't have? 131.109.225.3 19:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't really get your question but Caedus has all of his limbs which Lumiya says will make him a stronger and true Sith Lord Steves490 20:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * How about what Vader had that Caedus didn't have to be a great leader? Who was the better of the two? 72.82.9.127 00:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Invincible spoilers out now
Someone on TFN has Invincible now and says he'll post spoilers today. Jacen's fate will be revealed! Drewton  18:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Spoilers: Jacen is killed by Jaina! Drewton   17:21, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * And there was much celebration.... TIEPilot051999 03:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Change to Darth Caedus
I know we have had this discussion before but since he died as Darth Caedus and was not redeemed the article should be renamed Darth Caedus. Darth Solus 19:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC) While I agree we should rename the page, I don't think this is definitive as far as spoilers go. Granted Caedus will probably die at the end of the series, but is this source reliable enough to post something up based on it? Could be just wishful thinking on the part of the person who posted the spoilers. Katarn1989 19:58 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. And this is off topic, but it's a poor ending for LOTF.   Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 19:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, with the Sith Empire dominating the galaxy in Star Wars Legacy, did you really expect a happy ending? I don't have the book yet, but judging from the spoilers, Mr. Denning did a good job of connecting each Legacy series. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 19:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It didn't have to be happy, but it seems like a lot of potentional, and the series, are wasted with his death. Daala should never have become chief of state.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 19:56, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There's been more than one person who's read it, and probably at least three or four people who have now in the TFN thread. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 20:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a post in the main TFN site, so it's reliable. It's also one of the administrator's here. I'm also feeling very uncomfortable with the ending, for that you have the TFN boards. BTW, the change is correct. I objected, but sadly, it has to be done. Nanook 20:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if the source is good, then I'm all for using it to change the name. Jacen Solo just doesn't fit the character anymore. Katarn1989 20:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it fine if I move the page to Darth Caedus now? Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 20:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please put a spoiler warning or whatever you would do for talk pages. I mean I knew that he would die but now I'm gonna read the whole book knowing for certain. Steves490 20:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know who decides it but I think that you should move it. I would do it but I don't know how.Darth Solus 20:32, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried to move it, but I can't because there's already a page for Darth Caedus, the redirect. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 20:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In response to an above post, the spoilers appear to be correct. User:StarNeptune, an administator here, provided them. I doubt an admin would make up "spoilers" and spread them around the Internet. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 21:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt an administrator would too, but I didn't know he/she was an administrator here as well. I'm more than convinced the spoilers are valid now. Katarn1989 22:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As was said in one of the earlier sections about the name, it should be whatever more people call him. As I've skimmed this page, I've seen more people call him Jacen. I think the article should stay Jacen unless something happens in Invincible to change that. DarthDragon164 [[Image:Black dragon.JPG|20px]]talk![[Image:Black dragon.JPG|20px]]164 06:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

He died as Caedus so thats what the article will be called. - KAJ – Talk 08:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What about Sith such as Dooku and Palpatine? They both died, theoretically, as Sith, but are known best by said names, not "Darth Tyranus" and "Darth Sidious".--Jedi Kasra 09:11, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We go by their public name. If Jacen is known as Caedus in public as of Invincible, a move might be made. If he's still widely known as Jacen in the book, he will stay at the current name. Thefourdotelipsis 09:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Dooku and Palpatine went by those names publically, and exceptionally few individuals knew they were sith. Caedus on the other hand opleny proclaims himself the dark lord and demands to be known by his Darth name, and as I have already said he dies under that name. - KAJ – Talk 10:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It won't get moved for over a month, either way, until the spoiler period is over. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 10:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, so far, he "told" only one man, Lon Shevu. Shevu then told Ben, who told the rest of the family. He did not order anyone else, save Tahiri Veila, to call him Darth Caedus. Darth Krayt's article is known as such because only four people know that he was A'Sharad Hett, and none of them during his time as a Jedi. And Drath Malak was more commonly known as such, not as "Alek Squinquargesimus". Jacen Solo is more commonly known as Jacen Solo. It is Jacen Solo who was a hero of the Vong War, not Darth Caedus. Unless the book indicates otherwise, the article should stay at its current name.--Jedi Kasra 11:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

He is not Jacen Solo anymore, so calling him that is completely inaccuate, and for an encyclopedia unprofesional.- KAJ – Talk 11:52, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

In the book, his crew members refer to him as "Lord Caedus", Fett and Mirta call him Caedus, The Moffs call him Caedus, and he corrects Isolder when Isolder referred to him as "Jacen". Those all are the people I can remember off the top of hy head that aren;t family or his apprentice that refer to him that way (there are probably others).  StarNeptune Talk to me! 15:51, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Does he regret his actions? I haven't seen anything about that yet. -- SFH 19:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

His last act was telling Tenel Ka to protect their dughter, but seeing as making the Galaxy safer for her was his reasing for becoming a Sith in the first place I dont think that counts. -KAJ – Talk 19:29, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We still don't know the author's notion and intention (for that we have to read the book), but, according to TFN forums, most understand that Jacen wasn't redeemed, even though it was made to look like that. I find it quite saddening, but that's really off-topic. Nanook 21:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So when are we moving this to "Darth Caedus"? Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No time like the present. I tried moving it but the other page already exists so we need an administrators help.Darth Solus 00:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Can't someone just copy the whole article and paste it on the Darth Caedus page, and then make a redirect on this page? Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Names in Infobox
Why do we have both Darth Caedus and Jacen Solo in the infobox? If th official decision was to change the article to "Darth Caedus", then he shouldn;t have the Jacen Solo name with it. Should we start putting a Sith's former name in every Sith infobox, such as Alek Squinquargesimus under Darth Malak? Or Phanius under Darth Ruin? I don't think so.--Jedi Kasra 16:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But how many people know who Phanius is? How many people know how to say Squinquarrrgg (I know I can copy...)? Caedus, in the eyes of many, is still Jacen Solo. Nanook 18:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably not a good idea to put a Sith's former name in the userbox as well. If that were the case, then we'd probably have to make the article title "Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus." Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 19:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? There in the infobox we have a way of acknowledging the two major names of this character. What's in the infobox doesn't have to reflect the pagename. Thefourdotelipsis 08:29, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, to be honest, I think it'd be unnecessary. Both names are acknowledged in the first paragraph. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 10:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But then you could argue that anything in the infobox mentioned in the opening paragraph is superfluous, couldn't you? :P Thefourdotelipsis 11:56, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Question
From the "Death" section of the article:

"After his death Jaina reflected that Jacen had been himself again during his final moments and that he had succedded in his goal, he had brought peace to the galaxy."

- Quote from article

Does this mean that he redeemed himself, or what? Of course, none of us except StarNeptune have the actual book, so.--Jedi Kasra 06:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is supposed to be ambiguous. Darth Solus 14:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, even Malak was less of a prick at the end of KOTOR. He wasn't redeemed though. Same with Caedus. BTW- I know I stand amongst very few with this, but it sucks that Caedus had to die. I liked him. But at least the page is now titled Darth Caedus. :-DDarth Nikolai 19:05, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

End of the Solo family name?
So...with Jacen dying in Invincible...there's no one to carry on the Solo family name...This makes total sense as to why in the Legacy series there aren't any Solo's around. I kind of agree that Jaina and Jag must start the fel dynasty. It makes sense to me. But it sorta sucks that there aren't going to be any actual main characters bearing the Solo name... I mean, after Han and Leia go caput...they can't live forever!Zadi 12:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * And that has anything to do with the article on Darth Caedus how? That should be in the solo family article, or rather, no where. It has nothing to do with the articles. Darth Nikolai 06:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Redemption
On the TFN boards they're saying that Caedus is redeemed right before he dies. Drewton  17:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC) I looked through it again, and the scene which I thought had Jacen's Force ghost, or a dream of Jacen, was only a flashback. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh and you think he should be put in the "redeemed" categories since that's what TFN thinks? Hate to break it to you but TFN is made up of fans not the people who write the damn book. Unless a post by someone who is a writer, then it's worthless. Crap. They decide jack when it comes to this sort of thing. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 17:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Jaina feels her twin's Force bond after he dies, and I don't think she would if he had stayed dark. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 17:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So what? The Jedi Exile and Kreia/Traya still had a bond when the latter returned to being a Sith. And like Redemption said, the people at TFN don't get to decide if he was redeemed or not. I've removed your recent edit. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 19:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but he 'had been himself again during his final moments', and years after their bond had been broken, Jaina could suddenly feel it again after he died. The Exile and Kreia's bond was different, one that they didn't know how to break, and Kreia could use it to kill the Exile.  I'm not using any opinions of TFN members, I'm using facts/spoilers that have been posted.  Anyways, let's wait until the book is out.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 20:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I could be wrong but I think the purpose was to leave Jacen as being neither good or evil. He is just someone who did what he felt he had to.Darth Solus 20:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * StarNeptune already has the book, and she's made it clear that he isn't redeemed. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Though many people have now read the book, he's not really redeemed, although they kind of leave it up in the air. Personally, I think he wasn't, it's all just wishful thinking on Jaina's part.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 20:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just because he called out to Tenel Ka before he died doesn't mean he was redeemed. That was part of the reason he became a Sith in the first place, to keep them safe Steves490 20:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you guys are overlooking a few details about the redemption issue. Let's not forget what his grandpa gone back to the light to save Luke and died doing it, so Solo did the same thing for Tenal Ka and especially Allana. Nobody's on the path of redemption. It's all in their blood, you know, and I really implore to redirect Caedus to Jacen and put in the "Redeemed Jedi" category. PLEEEEEEASE!!!!!!72.82.25.224 23:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm in the process of reading the book (getting close to the final chapters), but everyone in the story seems to agree that Jacen is dead, and no trace of him is present in Caedus. I suspect they would have a better view on the matter than us, after all. ;) Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone said that Anakin was dead also. I skimmed over the end of Invincible at the book store quickly and Jacen's Force ghost appears to Jaina after he dies.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 00:17, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * wait wait I do not remember reading that caedus's force ghost appeared to Jaina and I actually read the book, not just looking through it. Steves490 01:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It was either a Force ghost or something like a dream; I don't remember exactly. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 02:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I even have the book myself and complete faith in Jacen. But I suppose there would have to be more to the redemption story once we get to the next book or so, right? A Jedi spirit of himself would be fine by me, if that's you were suggesting. 72.82.25.224 15:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Drewton, I just finished the book and there is no Force ghost or dream like you claim. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It was probably my mistake then. I only looked through it quickly.  If it was in the book, it was almost immediately after the duel.  Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 22:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Prosphetic Arm?
Just wondering, when Jaina cut off Caedus's arm did he get a prosphetic replacement? Darth Raivon 16:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

No, he didn't. - '''Colonel Solo Galactic Alliance Gaurd 20:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

So, did he have his arm reattached or did he fight Jaina one-handed? Darth Raivon 11:58, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He fought her one-handed. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 13:03, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He mentioned while interrogating Mirta Gev that he could have had it retattached but he would have had to stay in the infirmary for a few months so he just made do with a stub arm. Steves490 18:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

So that's how he lost. I honestly thought that he would win, but then it wouldn't fit with Lucas's good-guy-always-wins style would it? Regardless, he must have been one hell of a fighter to duel Jaina with one arm and a hole through his stomach. Skywalker eat your heart out. Darth Raivon 15:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Name
Why is it that Vader's page is Anakin Skywalker, yet Solo's page is Darth Cadeus? Wouldn't the rules for one character apply to the other? --Doop 02:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know this has been discussed many times before, and I don't know quite where I should be filing my complaint, but I agree--this page should be moved back to Jacen Solo. Jacen was Jacen for the vast majority of his life; viewing it from start to (sniff) finish, the Caedus thing only came right at the end. And especially because he, like Anakin, appeared to be redeemed in his final moments, I think it's only appropriate that his article bears the name of the noble young Jedi we all knew and loved. :) GeneralTarfful 04:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Since most people know Anakin as Vader, I think his article should be there. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people who visit this site will type in Darth Vader and get redirected to Anakin's page, as opposed to typing in Anakin's name.
 * If Cadeus was known as Jacen for the most of his appearances, his article should be there, imo. --Doop 10:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It really has nothing to do with that. Their articles are at their current names because that is the name they last used: Anakin Skywalker, Darth Caedus, Palpatine, Dooku, etc. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Jacen died as Caedus and Vader died as Anakin. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 12:18, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He became Jacen again right before he died though.Fireball93 22:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, he didn't. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * EVERYBODY knew him as Caedus before his death. He died a Dark Lord of the Sith, calling out to the people he joined the sith to protect before his death does not make him redeemed. Steves490 19:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If the one person with the strongest force bond with Jacen felt Jacen and not Caedus die should Caedus's name not be changed back to Jacen Solo? He may or may not have been redeemed, but the person who died was known as "Jacen Solo" to one of "Caedus's" staunchest opponants. Jaina probably had a better idea of who he was than anyone else. Entreri86 14:03, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Entreri86
 * He wasn't redeemed. He died as Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He was not redeemed, but Jaina felt Jacen die not Caedus. She felt him turn back to Jacen Solo for a split second to send a message to Tenel Ka and Allana, he died as Jacen Solo while still sending his message. The Secret Apprentice  [[Image:Secretapprenticefull.jpg|20px]] ( Personal Comm ) 15:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just because he sent a message to Tenel Ka does not mean he died as Jacen. Remember, he still loved Tenel and Allana and did not want them to be harmed. He was still Caedus when he died. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 15:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you even read the book? Jaina said she thought it was Jacen who died not Caedus. If you still beg to differ read her page. Jaina Solo The Secret Apprentice  [[Image:Secretapprenticefull.jpg|20px]] ( Personal Comm ) 16:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh and on this very article: Right before the Abilities section: "Moments before his death Jacens last thoughts were of his family; his sister Jaina believed that Jacen was himself for the last few seconds of his life." The first sentence in the Legacy section: "After his death, Jaina reflected that Jacen had been himself again during his final moments, and that he had succeeded in his goal: he had brought peace to the galaxy, sacrificing his name and life to do so." And right above that in the section marked Death: "Afterwards she said that she felt Jacen, not Caedus, die through her twin bond and believed that he was himself for the last moments of his life." The Secret Apprentice  [[Image:Secretapprenticefull.jpg|20px]] ( Personal Comm ) 16:16, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure he did read the book and in the part of the article you pointed out pay close attention to the word believed. There is a large possibility that this is Jaina's wishful thinking. Earlier in the book she thought he turned back to being Jacen as well and she was wrong. Darth Krayt calls him Caedus and not Jacen decades later. Also in the preview for Millennium Falcon (novel) he is called Darth Caedus which is the most up to date reference of him. Until that novel is released, I don't believe there is proper grounds to change the name of the article. If Jaina said for example "remember that time I killed Jacen?" then changing the article back would be fine. Steves490 16:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

The act of redemption is defined as completely renouncing the Dark Side, Caedus never did this. Vader, on the other hand, did. Just because Caedus called out to Tenel Ka in his last moments, it does not mean that he was redeemed. A Sith Lord is capable of love and, if you'll remember, Caedus wasn't exactly a stereotypical Sith. Besides, he Force Screamed his message, a Dark Side skill in itself. His name is Caedus, Jacen Solo is dead. Darth Raivon 18:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC) Ummmm, ok, not much of an explaining, but I get it. - '''Colonel Solo Galactic Alliance Gaurd 21:58, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do indeed have the book. Everything I've said (which can be summed up as "Caedus wasn't redeemed") comes straight from the book itself. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 21:45, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought he was redeemed since it said that jaina thought that he was redeemed at the last moment right? Or something like that. I'm not typing out of the book. - '''Colonel Solo [[Image:GA Roundel.svg|20px]]Galactic Alliance Gaurd 21:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, no, no. He wasn't redeemed. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 21:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So how was he redeemed, can you tell me, it's kinda confusing.....- '''Colonel Solo [[Image:GA Roundel.svg|20px]]Galactic Alliance Gaurd 21:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For the last time, he was not redeemed. He died as Darth Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 21:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But that's not fair!!! He had to have some good still in him, just like his grandfather. Good-evil-good again is all a part of Skywalker blood. I just know it! Maybe we can wait for other pieces of information in future essential guides, novels, or such. Who knows? 72.82.25.224 22:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, he didn't. Nothing is going to change the fact that he died as Caedus. Your "good-evil-good again" situation does not work for Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Colonel Solo, if you need explaining there is plenty of it above, and I'd like to say since we are talking from an in universe point of view, if you told the wookiees on Kashyyyk or the bothans or the people on Oridin or Mara Jade Skywalker that he was redeemed because Jaina had an inkling that he did right before she sliced up his heart they would laugh then probably cry. Steves490 22:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Revan was redeemed while he was a Sith Master, so why not Jacen? More importantly, he redeemed himself because he had to save Allana, like Grandpa Anakin did for Luke!!!! He probably didn't have time or never wanted to face Jaina again, anyway! "Parent-saving-offspring?" Get it??? Tell me, Tranner, have you always had too much negatory in your family? HAVE YOU?!!?! 72.82.25.224 23:59, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1. Malak took the title of Sith Master from Revans after his capture. 2 Caedus became a Sith to protect his family so protecting them before death doesn't prove anything 3. he did not reject the dark side before death 4. I'm sure Tranner has a fine family :) Steves490 00:09, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I have to say, I love how everyone is saying that he wasn't Jacen Solo anymore, yet they don't seem to eager to remove the information from the article that says otherwise. -- SFH 00:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * SFH, why would I remove/change the areas that says what Jaina believed? She can believe or think whatever she wants, im arguing about the proof of Caedus's affiliations and intentions. I'm making sure his name on the page reflects his true self. Otherwise on the top it just says Caedus died on the Anakin it doesn't mention him being truly redeemed or rejecting the dark side and he isn't in the category of redeemed Jedi so I see nothing to change now. Steves490 00:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, I think we should reword it. I'll take care of it. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe it doesn't say that Jacen was redeemed, but it does seem to be confusing people. -- SFH 01:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea you're right. I like how Tranner reworded it, but I'm sure the debate will continue forever. What an infamous name. Steves490 01:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sadly, you are true. It will. Now, this sentence:
 * After his death Jaina realized that Caedus had succeeded; he had brought peace to the galaxy, sacrificing his own life to do so. 
 * is somewhat absurd. It implies that there was a Jedi Knight who believed that a Sith Lord has brought peace, while the Jedi referred to the Sith in his own original name (as we know Jaina believes him to be redeemed). Now, I agree that Darth Caedus should stay the title, but in this specific sentence using the Darth title is not in place. Nanook 01:20, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It should remain "Caedus" because if "Jacen" is used, people will think he was redeemed. This is to avoid any confusion. And it's not like it's wrong, since he died as Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 01:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nanook, I agree with your statement and changed that sentence to realized that her brother had suceeded nobody in either galaxy can argue they were relatives :) Steves490 01:30, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Nice to see some agreement here =) Nanook 02:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, let's just hope there'll be signs of Jacen's redemption in the next book or so. He's gotta come back to the light, like his grandpa and show up as a ghost. Like grandfather, like grandson. "Join the family business," that's what they always say. 72.82.25.224 22:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 72.82.25.224, he wasn't redeemed. He's not returning to the light (not that he had to in the first place). You're just going to have to get used to it. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The line "After his death, Jaina claimed that Caedus had been himself again during his final moments" is absurd again. What happened to "her brother"? --Seth danny 23:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Caedus being himself sounds like him being like Caedus, not Jacen.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * BZZZZ!! ERRRRR!!! Wrong! Caedus may be dead, but Jacen... He's alive!!! Jaina has broken her brother's shackles with a single stab of her lightsaber and set him free. He has been reborn. Remember the old saying: "He lives in you..." 72.92.248.252 23:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Dude... shut up already, please. He wasn't redeemed. You have no evidence to support your claim. Believe whatever you want, but don't post it here. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 00:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do these people that just joined Wookieepedia come here and claim hes redeemed with no proof just o come on hes totally Jacen again thats what star wars is all about. And also in the book i didn't see anything about shackles being broken and freeing a redeemed Jedi by killing him. Steves490 21:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I swear they do it just to argue. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh really? Well, I've got some advice for you mates. Look back in the other books and you'll find that Jacen desired the path of his redemption, just like his grandfather. Then, it's back to plain old "Jacen" again. One more negative comment, Tranner, and you're strictly demoted to Moff!!! Got it? 72.92.248.252 23:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for proving our point, just some general statement with no proof. Even if it's true it doesn't change anything. What he desired has nothing to do with what he actually physically did. He desired to rule his New Sith Empire after Sacrifice, but we don't put on wookieepedia that he is an emperor because he never did it. So how do I say this...BZZZZ!! ERRRRR!!! Wrong! Steves490 03:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the guy has no proof to back up his claim, so I'm just going to ignore him. Everyone else knows he died as Caedus. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 11:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember in Revelation when Jacen told Luke that he didn't need to be redeemed? The book says that he was really lyind. Seriously!! And on the next book, Jaina still called her brother her real name when they met. Besides, he was still called "Jacen" through his whole life, while being called "Caedus" by other people for only two books. HA HA!! And while having Jaina's lightsaber in his chest, he must have redeemed himself in his thoughts, seconds before joining his grandpa and little bro. Plus, I'm agreeing with Jaina's theory and you should respect her wisdom. 12.179.11.22 22:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, you've become the first person on my list of people to ignore. Give it up already. You're not convincing anyone here. And your "And while having Jaina's lightsaber in his chest, he must have redeemed himself in his thoughts, seconds before joining his grandpa and little bro" comment is pure bullshit, because he wasn't redeemed. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's it, Tranner! You're getting demoted for that comment and I mean it! I'm only saying this because he's like his grandfather!!!! And they're all alike! It's in their blood. They can't help themselves. I read the books, didn't I? And by the way, use "bullcrud" instead. I hate your profanity. 12.179.11.22 23:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess what? I don't care. Now, grow up, because it's obvious to me that you're a little kid. Caedus did not get redeemed, no matter how many times you falsely claim he did. He was not like his grandfather. It was not in his blood. Get over it. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 23:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, I'm 16, you idiot! And second, I'm not trying to be false here. Jeez, who do you think you are? Adolf Hitler or somebody else like him? All right. You win. Here's the truth: I just don't like Jacen dying as a Sith, that's all. It doesn't feel right. I mean, that's just against family tradition, don't you think? 12.179.11.22 00:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One man becoming a Sith and then being redeemed is not a family tradition. And frankly, what you "feel" has no impact on Star Wars at all. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 01:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * While I think that it should stay Caedus, remember that Luke was a Sith, as well. He apprenticed himself to Darth Sidious, albeit by that time he was a clone. Othewr family members have struggled with the dark side, Jaina, Ben, Mara Jade, Cade, and others that we have yet to find out about.--Jedi Kasra 02:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * With the exception of Luke (who I forgot), none of the others ever became Sith. They merely struggled with the dark side, which apparently most Jedi do in their lives. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, we don't know for sure if he was or was not redeemed. That was Dennings intention. That being said I think we should have the article as ambiguous to his being redeemed as possible, at least until it is confirmed wether he was redeemed or not. Darth Solus 21:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Investigation
I have a few shrill guesses of what caused Jacen's fall into Darth Caedus:

1. The death of his little brother ("mad with grief" that is)

2. The Embrace of Pain

3. Seeing his grandfather's selfishness for Padme

Which do either of you think is the best answer? 72.82.25.224 02:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

None of them. Your an idiot (Will Karner I'm guesing). - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 08:58, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yea this isn't neccesary, don't make a poll or whatever this is on a talk page just read the LOTF series. And if you havent read it you shouldn't be arguing for or against any LOTF topics like the one above. Steves490 18:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Prosthetic Kneecap
On page 186 of Invincible it says "Caedus intentionally slammed his prosthetic kneecap into the bedframe", as such shouldn't his prosthetic kneecap be mentioned in his infobox? LordChewie52 23:54, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Well since you had an obvious source to back it you could have put that in yourself with any confirmation but I put it in. Steves490 03:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Lightsaber
According to recent edit by Jedi Kasra, Caedus had 4 lightsaber, yet I managed to recognize three: The first green saber, the Sith saber, and the "another" saber. What is the fourth? Nanook 14:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The Dark Jedi one he got from the Shadow Academy. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 14:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed. -- RedHotMetal   (The Furnace) 14:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)