Wookieepedia:Meetings/Log/2006 August 19

[19:14] StarNeptune: I BID YOU ALL DARK GREETINGS [19:14] Petiflo: expected... [19:14] Jaymach: laaaame :P [19:14] Jaymach: but anyway :) [19:14] StarNeptune: :P [19:14] Jaymach: what's the first item on the agenda? [19:14] StarNeptune: You're the Grand Moff...you should know this stuff :P [19:14] SillyDan: Consensus track: when to close discussions, what to do with inactive

ones. - Sikon [Talk] 08:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC) [19:15] StarNeptune: Oh joy [19:15] Petiflo: discussions in the senate hall? [19:15] LtNOWIS: A lot of CT discussions just die [19:15] StarNeptune: Those things do seem to drag [19:15] StarNeptune: How about we close them after a week? [19:15] Jaymach: it really depends on the severity of the CT, in my opinion [19:15] Petiflo: I believe discussions close themsleves, some however need help [19:15] Petiflo: CT? [19:15] Jaymach: minor ones we could probably do in a week [19:16] Jaymach: but there are others which are much more important [19:16] LtNOWIS: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Consensus_track)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Consensus_track [19:16] Petiflo: ok [19:16] LtNOWIS: For example, I don't think we ever reached a real conclusion on our

spoilers policy. [19:16] Petiflo: that's a tricky one [19:16] StarNeptune: We haven't really reached a conclusion on a lot of things [19:16] StarNeptune: like fan sites [19:16] Jaymach: and Karen Traviss :P lol [19:17] StarNeptune: lol [19:17] Redemption: Be easier to kill the woman... [19:17] Whopper: hehe [19:17] Petiflo: here they go again [19:17] SillyDan: no death threats, people [19:17] Petiflo: what did she ever do to you? [19:17] SillyDan: that's just not on [19:17] Jaymach: I wasn't looking to bring the discussions in here :) [19:17] * LtNOWIS is in the Pro-Traviss camp [19:17] Redemption: I'm just saying. Easier to kill Karen then reach a decision. [19:17] *** Gem_ has joined #wookieepedia. [19:18] Gem_: Hi [19:18] Jaymach: greetings [19:18] Petiflo: hi [19:18] StarNeptune: 'lo [19:18] nex|vdr: Hello [19:18] Redemption: I never said anything about actually killing her with a sharp objec [19:18] Redemption: t [19:18] SillyDan: Redemption, seriously, enough with that [19:18] StarNeptune: Back on topic, plz [19:18] Gem_: Damned, someones using my nick on this irc server :( [19:18] Whopper: you can recover it [19:18] Gem_: What's the topic atm? [19:18] Redemption: It's probably you. IRC servers like to create clones [19:19] Jaymach: so should we set a specific amount of time for all CT's or two seperate

ones depending on the severity? [19:19] Petiflo: seriously, sometimes it's just impossible to define a clear policy [19:19] Gem_: Redemption: its not me, icheckes allready [19:20] SithLord1206: How about we close them after 24-48 hours of no response? [19:20] StarNeptune: fair [19:20] SillyDan: I think it should be longer than that [19:20] Petiflo: yep [19:20] LtNOWIS: yeah [19:20] Jaymach: much longer than that [19:20] Redemption: Try a week [19:20] StarNeptune: a week [19:20] Petiflo: a week [19:20] SillyDan: maybe a week without response [19:20] Petiflo: ok [19:20] SithLord1206: A week, yes [19:20] Whopper: week. [19:20] Petiflo: we agree for a week [19:21] Jaymach: a week -without a response- seems okay [19:21] LtNOWIS: well, some things are pretty vote-oriented, less discussion-oriented [19:21] SithLord1206: Final comment: but it might give people too long a time to

respond, topic might not get closed for a while [19:21] Jaymach: but the problem is that people may drag them out [19:21] SillyDan: some CT issues are confusing [19:21] Petiflo: you could just refuse to reopen it [19:21] Petiflo: close it definetely [19:21] Petiflo: unless more people wan to reconsider it [19:22] nex|vdr: with the option to re open it if topic comes back up? [19:22] SithLord1206: You mean, just give each topic one solid week for response? [19:22] LtNOWIS: I'll be right back; Need to catch dinner [19:22] Petiflo: lets say if everybody agrees that a policy is not applicable anymore,

you reopen the debate [19:22] Whopper: or bigger topics a bit longer? [19:22] SillyDan: no, I think we're saying a topic can be closed if the discussion isn't

touched for a week [19:23] Whopper: ah [19:23] Whopper: ok [19:23] Petiflo: SithLord1206 we mean if nobody replies for a week, debate closed [19:23] Jaymach: and what happens if someone keeps a topic going and going if they're

losing? [19:23] Gem_: sounds good to me too [19:23] Petiflo: Jaymach, that's called harassment [19:23] SithLord1206: I think that the problem is that a week is a lot of time to

respond, so it could drag on for a while, but it sounds far better than the short amount

of time I gave it [19:23] Gem_: close if only one people ois talking during a weel [19:23] Jaymach: not when it's a CT it's not [19:24] Gem_: count the week from the second last discusser [19:24] *** wswordsmen has signed off IRC. [19:24] Petiflo: well if someone looses and keep bringing it back, it's because he can't

accept that his point was not taken, which is a silly attitude [19:24] Jaymach: you've obviously not met a lot of our contributors [19:25] Petiflo: hey I'm a newcomer ;) [19:25] SillyDan: we could allow an admin to close a thread if consensus has been

reached by all but a minority of editors [19:25] SillyDan: problem is, how to define consensus? [19:25] Petiflo: good one [19:25] Gem_: thats a reasonable thing to do [19:25] Jaymach: yeah we really shoulda done that long ago :P [19:25] SillyDan: or minority, for that matter [19:25] StarNeptune: That's a point of contention on our next topic [19:25] Jaymach: indeed [19:26] Petiflo: let's keep on this one for now [19:26] SillyDan: a majority of one editor isn't really consensus [19:26] Petiflo: how can one editor be a majority? [19:27] StarNeptune: They can;t [19:27] SillyDan: that's exactly what I'm saying, Petiflo [19:27] Petiflo: oh sorry I misunderstood [19:27] StarNeptune: Unless you're Jaymach :P [19:27] LtNOWIS: back [19:27] SithLord1206: Maybe there should be a minimum number of people per discussion?

That is, assuming each discussion will have a few people. [19:27] Jaymach: not every discussion gets a lot of people [19:28] SithLord1206: thats the flaw that i see [19:28] SillyDan: why not: if a CT thread attracts only three editors, clearly not many

of us care [19:28] Petiflo: or like, 75% of editors must agree to reach a consensus [19:28] LtNOWIS: that's a pretty high proportion [19:28] SithLord1206: I was thinking along the lines of that too, or 2/3 [19:28] Petiflo: can be changed [19:28] SillyDan: of editors involved in that discussion, you mean [19:28] Petiflo: yep [19:29] Gem_: 2/3 or 75% is awfully lot in any wiki [19:29] SillyDan: I'd say 2/3rds is sufficient [19:29] LtNOWIS: yeah [19:29] Gem_: must be 2/3 from active editors then [19:29] Jaymach: even if only 6 people vote? [19:29] Petiflo: yeah as you want [19:29] Gem_: 1/3 would be a lot better thou [19:29] Petiflo: no that's too few [19:29] StarNeptune: no [19:29] SillyDan: (Sikon closed the 2nd Traviss quote deletion thread with a 2/3

majority) [19:29] Jaymach: so what do we do for those ones? :P [19:29] Whopper: maybe 2/3 of votors. [19:29] Whopper: ers [19:29] Petiflo: Jaymach, we ask more people to participate in the main page? [19:30] SillyDan: if it's 4-2, that's not really consensus [19:30] Jaymach: no [19:30] Jaymach: I dislike us putting up anything of that sort on the Main Page, tbh [19:30] SithLord1206: A tough topic this is. Meditate on it, we must. [19:30] Gem_: but if we ask people to participate, those will vote who don't care or

understand about it [19:30] Jaymach: even SiteNotice's would be too much for a lot of our CT's [19:30] Petiflo: alright then [19:30] SillyDan: the Main page is for people who don't care how we make this stuff,

they just want to see the articles [19:30] StarNeptune: I use sitenotices over on the fanon wiki [19:30] *** Master76 has joined #wookieepedia. [19:31] LtNOWIS: We could always say "Hey look at this" on TFN and such. [19:31] StarNeptune: I seems to work [19:31] StarNeptune: it* [19:31] Jaymach: we're not meant to though :P lol [19:31] Petiflo: how about a notice in the senate hall? or the consensus track page? [19:31] * Jaymach points out that we're not actually part of TF.N despite how it looks


 * P lol

[19:31] SithLord1206: I disagree with you Silly Dan, while I only visit the CT

occasionally, I do care how everything runs, which is why I would like to get more

involved. [19:31] Jaymach: we don't let people who don't contribute vote anyway [19:32] SillyDan: yes, but the Main Page is primarily a gateway for everyone [19:32] SillyDan: including people who aren't planning on editing, joining discussions,

or anything like that [19:33] Petiflo: then we would a gateway for people who do get involved [19:33] SithLord1206: I understand, but it's also for hopefuls who do wish to get

involved and help the site [19:33] *** JustinGann has joined #wookieepedia. [19:33] Jaymach: hey Justin [19:33] LtNOWIS: hey [19:33] StarNeptune: 'lo [19:33] SillyDan: anyway: for CT discussions, our ideas seem to be that we can end

threads if they've been inactive for a week [19:33] JustinGann: hey [19:33] Petiflo: hi [19:33] Whopper: welcome master76 and justin [19:33] SillyDan: or if consensus has been reached [19:33] nex|vdr: Hello [19:33] JustinGann: how late am i [19:33] Petiflo: SillyDan I think that's a point [19:33] Jaymach: not late [19:33] Whopper: about 15 min [19:33] SillyDan: but we can't work out consensus [19:33] JustinGann: what are we discussing [19:34] SillyDan: JustinGann: 20 min or so [19:34] Petiflo: 34 minutes [19:34] SillyDan: we're talking about when we can consider CT threads closed [19:34] LtNOWIS: Consensus track: when to close discussions, what to do with inactive

ones. - Sikon [Talk] 08:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC) [19:34] LtNOWIS: What if it's inactive, but there's no consensus? [19:34] Petiflo: then it's closed [19:35] SillyDan: if it's a "we need this policy" thread, it would default to "I guess

we don't for now" [19:35] Petiflo: good sum up [19:35] Gem_: no consesus = no change [19:35] SillyDan: if it's a "change this policy" thread, it defaults to "let's not for

now" [19:35] *** Master76 has left #wookieepedia. [19:35] SillyDan: etc. [19:36] LtNOWIS: Well, if it's something where there's two levels of agreement, than

default to the one that's the least change. [19:36] Petiflo: example? [19:36] SillyDan: the user signature thread maybe? [19:36] *** Master76 has joined #wookieepedia. [19:36] SillyDan: we seem to have agreed that we should have restrictions [19:36] LtNOWIS: For example: On the Dac/Mon Calamari one, there's "Change all

references to Mon Calamari" and "Change the article to Mon Calamari (planet) [19:36] SillyDan: but we're divided on what they are [19:37] SillyDan: LtNOWIS's example is also good [19:37] Jaymach: actually we don't have a Dac/Mon Calamari one [19:37] SillyDan: it's a Senate Hall thread [19:37] Jaymach: that's an example of how we rely on TF.N too much [19:37] Jaymach: the main argument for it is on the TF.N boards :P [19:37] LtNOWIS: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Mon_Calamari_%

28planet%29_or_Dac%3F&t=20060819223350)http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?

title=Forum:Mon_Calamari_%28planet%29_or_Dac%3F&t=20060819223350 [19:37] Jaymach: Justin and I were discussing it the other day actually...among other

articles [19:38] JustinGann: aw my main opinion [19:38] JustinGann: is that i dont care which way we go [19:38] LtNOWIS: I mean, all of the "Change the article name" people would prefer the

less extreme option to nothing at all. [19:38] JustinGann: but we should be consistent for all articles [19:39] JustinGann: if we go with Dac, we should have all articles under the indig names [19:39] JustinGann: if with Mon Calamari, all articles under the Standard names [19:39] Petiflo: the problem is : some may not no what Dac is, but do know what Mon

Calamari is... [19:39] LtNOWIS: well, nobody ever uses the phrase "Battle of Dac" [19:39] LtNOWIS: ever [19:39] Petiflo: and vice versa [19:39] Redemption: Same can be said for Thrawn or Tusken Raider [19:39] Jaymach: well that's the whole point in a Wiki :P [19:40] Jaymach: to educate people [19:40] SithLord1206: I agree with LtNOWIS though, the options that would have least

change should be the ones used [19:40] Petiflo: good point [19:40] Jaymach: I'm sure people will argue that Ghorfa should be at Sandpeople [19:40] SillyDan: yeah, but it helps if people can easily find the info [19:40] JustinGann: I personally think Basic names make more sense for a supposedly IU

work written by a group of scholars united in Basic to an audience united by Basic [19:40] Jaymach: they can easily find it [19:40] * Jaymach points at redirects [19:40] StarNeptune: I didn't even know the Sand People were called Ghorfa [19:40] Petiflo: good point JustinGann [19:40] Jaymach: how do we know what's Basic and what's a nickname though? [19:41] JustinGann: we know for certain that Dac is indig name and Calamari is universal [19:41] LtNOWIS: yeah, case-by-case, I guess [19:41] JustinGann: as has been pointed out, historians say "Battle of Calamari" [19:41] SillyDan: yeah, but what if people come across an article mentioning Dac? They

wouldn't connect it with Mon Calamari if they're new. [19:41] Gem_: same goes for tuskens [19:41] Petiflo: SillyDan then we would have to change that [19:41] SillyDan: that's what I'm saying [19:41] Jaymach: my example is Mandalorian iron....not the best one since people will

argue that it's other name is in Mandalorian...but do you really think that beskar

translates into Mandalorian iron or that Mandalorian iron is just the name given to it

because it's an iron used by Mandalorians? [19:42] Jaymach: I'm fine with us using Mon Calamari links :P [19:42] JustinGann: beskar is definitely the indig name [19:42] Petiflo: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeer [19:42] Jaymach: yes it's the indig name [19:42] Jaymach: but is a true translation going to be Mandalorian iron? [19:42] LtNOWIS: yeah [19:42] Petiflo: redirect seems the best solution to me [19:42] LtNOWIS: going by the language [19:42] Jaymach: are you sure though? [19:42] JustinGann: ok, that's the point [19:42] SithLord1206: I'm not sure if mofferences jump from topic to topic, this being

my first, but weren't we talking about whta to do with CT discussions? [19:42] Petiflo: when I read an article and find something I don't understand I just

check the article$ [19:42] JustinGann: IU, only Mandalorians will call it beskar, most people call it

Mandalorian iron [19:42] Jaymach: I mean I'd think the direct translation would just be "iron" [19:43] JustinGann: possibly [19:43] LtNOWIS: yeah, I think so [19:43] Jaymach: and people have just added Mandalorian onto it because it's Mandalorian [19:43] LtNOWIS: Hence beskar'gam = iron skin [19:43] Jaymach: indeed [19:43] SillyDan: anyway, we wanted to talk about CT in general, not specific title

questions [19:43] Jaymach: so should the article actually be at Iron? [19:43] Petiflo: SithLord1206, good point, but we need examples [19:43] Jaymach: seeing as that would be the direct translation? [19:43] LtNOWIS: But if foolish in-universe people use it enough, it's becomes a part of

their language. [19:43] Jaymach: Mandalorian iron would be a sorta nickname [19:44] LtNOWIS: So Mandalorian iron, after enough time, would be the technically

correct name, in-univerese [19:44] JustinGann: I wouldnt call a Basic designation a nickname [19:44] SillyDan: who says they're foolish? Am I foolish because I say Germany instead

of Deutschland? [19:44] JustinGann: yes ;) [19:44] SillyDan: it's the proper Basic word, so that's where it should go [19:44] JustinGann: no, you are not really [19:44] LtNOWIS: well, they wouldn't have to be foolish [19:44] Jaymach: I say Deutschland purely because my gran's German and calls it that :P [19:44] Whopper: hehe [19:45] LtNOWIS: I'm saying if a name has incorrect origins, it doesn't make it invalid. [19:45] JustinGann: the thing is, Basic is the IU universal language, and unless this

work is written specifically for one culture, we should have Basic titles [19:45] SillyDan: more to the point, who says a casual fan is foolish because he hasn't

read the obscure refs calling Mon Calamari Dac? [19:45] JustinGann: me? [19:45] LtNOWIS: not I [19:45] JustinGann: no, wait, I am native [19:45] Petiflo: I think we should stick to basic [19:45] JustinGann: me too [19:46] Master76: agreed [19:46] LtNOWIS: yeah [19:46] Jaymach: so should we move sc'rath to Scimitar (Togorian)? [19:46] SillyDan: sure, why not [19:46] JustinGann: Togorian scimitar rather [19:46] Petiflo: eeeeer, if Scimitar is basic then yeah [19:46] JustinGann: I've seen it called Togorian scimitar [19:46] SillyDan: Scimitar is a perfectly good English word [19:46] Redemption: Also, move Mi'thew (whatever his name is) to Thrawn. [19:46] SithLord1206: When I first found WP, I read about subjects such as

Mitthrawnuruodo and Ghorfas myself, not realizing for a while who or what they were [19:46] Jaymach: Redemption: don't even try to bring that up [19:46] Jaymach: Thrawn stays as is [19:46] SithLord1206: we should appeal to casual fans and to their basic understanding

if the SW universe [19:46] LtNOWIS: Or just Scimitar (weapon) [19:46] Petiflo: Redemption that's different, it's a core name [19:47] Redemption: Why not? [19:47] JustinGann: but Thrawn isn't Basic, that is simply his Core Name [19:47] Jaymach: Thrawn stays [19:47] Redemption: It's the "english" version [19:47] Petiflo: nothing to do with basic [19:47] Jaymach: end of [19:47] LtNOWIS: didn't Thrawn officially change his name? [19:47] Jaymach: if you'd like to bring up the discussion again then feel free to do so

in a CT and watch yourself be banned :) [19:47] LtNOWIS: I thought I heard that somewhere. [19:47] SillyDan: we wouldn't ban him for that [19:47] Jaymach: I'm more than happy to abuse my powers over that issue [19:47] JustinGann: a Togorian scimitar is a specific type or style of scimitar [19:47] Petiflo: Jaymach I get the feeling this was a very hard debate lol [19:47] SillyDan: and we'd unban him, Jaymach [19:47] Jaymach: yes and one I can't be bothered with :) [19:48] JustinGann: are we still discussing names? [19:48] SithLord1206: Umm, are you guys talking about banning me?! [19:48] SillyDan: no [19:48] Redemption: No, banning me [19:48] SithLord1206: Oh [19:48] Petiflo: they are joking [19:48] SithLord1206: phew [19:48] Jaymach: it's already been decided on 3 seperate occasions, so if it comes up

again then I'm likely to lose it [19:48] Petiflo: I guess... [19:48] JustinGann: as a Senator, I have diplomatic immunity from being banned [19:48] Gem_: ok, new topic? [19:48] SillyDan: we seem to have gone in circles with this one. [19:48] Petiflo: what was this topic again? [19:48] Petiflo: CT alright [19:49] Petiflo: about inactive discussions [19:49] SillyDan: it got onto names again. (Wikipedia has this same problem: see

Gdansk) [19:49] JustinGann: so we are voting on whether we should dismiss votes? [19:49] StarNeptune: Verdict:After a week of inactivity, they get archived [19:49] Petiflo: and when we can't reach an agreement? [19:49] LtNOWIS: yeah, my fault for mentioning Mon Calamari [19:49] Gem_: week of inactivity or activity of only one person [19:50] Petiflo: and when is an agreement reached anyway? [19:50] JustinGann: if there is that much disinterest, that indicates it should be

dropped [19:50] Petiflo: agreed [19:50] JustinGann: agreement is reached when the mods get sick of the argument and just

do what they want [19:50] Jaymach: tbh, that sounds about right :P [19:50] SithLord1206: lol, nice way to sum it up for us [19:50] StarNeptune: lol [19:50] Petiflo: convenient [19:50] LtNOWIS: And if we can't agree on the level of change, default to the "least

change" option [19:50] Jaymach: we don't even always mean to do that [19:50] SillyDan: they can also be closed if consensus is reached, but we haven't been

able to reach consensus on what is a consensus [19:50] Jaymach: people just get way too annoying [19:51] Petiflo: lol [19:51] SillyDan: so, new topic? [19:51] StarNeptune: Consencsus is a part of our next topic [19:51] Petiflo: but we made another verdict : stick to basic [19:51] SillyDan: VfDs: Should we propose a set period of time for them to remain open

(i.e. one week, 5 days, etc), and what percentage (if any) is required for consensus.

StarNeptuneTalk to me! 09:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC) [19:51] StarNeptune: So let's do it [19:51] JustinGann: concensus=majority rules+approval of one mod? [19:51] SillyDan: Petiflo: no we didn't, yet. 8) [19:51] Petiflo: SillyDan to be continued [19:51] SithLord1206: "Also, should we require some sort of edit count threshold for

voting, such as 50+ edits?" [19:52] StarNeptune: Some VfDs close after a day, some after a few weeks [19:52] Gem_: edit count limitation might be ok [19:52] Whopper: but what if they are all userspace? [19:52] Gem_: but VfDs which are clear cases should end soon [19:52] SillyDan: 50+ is a bit high: and I might prefer time as registered user to edit

count [19:52] StarNeptune: Then they don;t get to vote [19:52] Whopper: ah, ok [19:53] SillyDan: if we do use edit count, should be main article space edit count [19:53] JustinGann: some people might have a few edits, but high quality and long

length, and contribute more than someone whos added 50 edits [19:53] SithLord1206: I believe we should, once again, set a minimum concensus within a

set period of time. Problem is, some articles are likely to be more noticed than others. [19:53] Jaymach: yeah there's people like Justin who have thousands of meaningless edits


 * P lol j/k

[19:53] SillyDan: which is why I wanted a combined criteria [19:53] JustinGann: yep [19:54] Gem_: I would like to vote too, being a wiki veteran, but a new user to this

wiki. The policy stuff and such are things which I still cn participate in [19:54] Gem_: these kind of people shoul be taken into account [19:54] LtNOWIS: Edit counts are tricky. [19:54] JustinGann: arent people who take the time to vote usually people who

participate anyhow? [19:54] StarNeptune: Not always [19:54] LtNOWIS: Not always [19:54] Jaymach: depends on the topic [19:54] SithLord1206: I'd like to vote because I use the site and I know what's good for

it, but I don't have all that many edits. [19:54] SillyDan: or sockpuppets of those who do [19:54] JustinGann: ie, on VFD pages, most of the names I usually recognize [19:54] StarNeptune: Some votestuff because they have an interest in the article content [19:55] StarNeptune: (i.e. fan sites) [19:55] JustinGann: hmmm [19:55] JustinGann: we could have a voter registration [19:55] Petiflo: it's easy to see if a user really contributes to the wiki [19:55] JustinGann: yeah [19:55] SillyDan: we'd lost some of that behaviour on VFDs if we had clear criteria for

fansites [19:55] Petiflo: so no worry about those who don't [19:55] JustinGann: clear criteria for fansites? [19:56] JustinGann: you referring to the Galaxies stuff? [19:56] StarNeptune: Another inactive Ct thread :P [19:56] SillyDan: like types of fansites we would delete articles on [19:56] SithLord1206: I'll be truthful though, I lurk around and I don't contribute very

much, I don't usually have the time. What about users like me that clearly have been

around, know the site, but just dont edit? [19:56] JustinGann: oh [19:56] LtNOWIS: We could have "Notability criteria" discussions, like on Wikipedia. [19:56] StarNeptune: We did [19:56] Petiflo: SithLord1206 well if you do edit sometimes, it means you contribute I

think [19:56] StarNeptune: But like I said, it was a CT thread that went inactive [19:57] Master76: I'm like SithLord 1206 as well, but I do edit [19:57] Master76: every so often [19:57] JustinGann: Empire Database, RPG Network, jedinet.com, TFN, nav computer, sw

atlas...those are the notable ones [19:57] Petiflo: is a revert considered a contribution? [19:57] LtNOWIS: One time, I saw a guy vote who had like 5 edits, all on talk pages. [19:58] JustinGann: reverts show someone responsibly cares about canon and the wikia,

and deserve a vote [19:58] Petiflo: ok [19:58] Jaymach: as long as the revert is valid [19:58] LtNOWIS: yeah, reverts are valuable [19:58] Petiflo: because I'm mostly a reverter^^ [19:58] Gem_: I think that we only ned to check user contributions in inclear cases [19:58] Petiflo: would need a userbox for that [19:58] Jaymach: there's certain people...who I won't mention...who just revert if they

don't think things sound right [19:58] Gem_: It's not worthile to do that all the time [19:59] Petiflo: Jaymach or if they don't like their stuff to be wiped ? [19:59] Jaymach: indeed [19:59] JustinGann: well, Jaymach has a point, but I know I'm not the only person who

keeps a sharp eye on the Jedi list for fanon "Jedi" [19:59] LtNOWIS: Well, this guy voted: (Link:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/SithRebel1206)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/SithRebel1206 [19:59] Jaymach: I wasn't actually referring to you :P lol [19:59] LtNOWIS: oh wait, is that you... [19:59] JustinGann: i didnt think you were;) [20:00] StarNeptune: I think most of us know who he's referring to [20:00] SithLord1206: I would say, the main reason I dont edit, is because I have very

little to contribute. I wouldnt know how to start a new article, or what to start it on.

It seems to me that when I search for most topics, they already have an article. [20:00] Petiflo: not me [20:00] Jaymach: more than one person really :P [20:00] Petiflo: I mean I don't know [20:00] Petiflo: and I don't want to [20:00] JustinGann: I think I know who StarNeptune thinks Jaymach is referring to [20:00] Jaymach: lol [20:00] JustinGann: anyhow [20:01] JustinGann: do we have a policy for annoying people yet [20:01] Petiflo: SithLord1206 but if you come across something you know to be fanon, or

against policies, and clean it, then you contribute [20:01] StarNeptune: lol [20:01] SillyDan: or even correct spelling SithLord1206 [20:01] Redemption: SithLord: There are alot of other ways to contribute. I've been at

this for over a year and I've only created about 3 articles. If that... [20:01] Jaymach: no, but I wish we did :P [20:01] LtNOWIS: yeah, sometimes I just spell-check random articles with Word. [20:01] SillyDan: back on topic: how long should we keep VFDs open for? [20:01] JustinGann: can we create a special shadow wikia for the annoying people to have

and leave us alone [20:01] Petiflo: SithLord1206 see, if you just correct the grammarmistakesI make then

you contribute lol [20:01] Redemption: Then it wouldn't be fun for them [20:02] JustinGann: VFDs, I would say about 2 weeks [20:02] LtNOWIS: I'm ok with the ad hoc system we have now for VfD closing. [20:02] Petiflo: JustinGann they would just come back to the real one [20:02] SillyDan: I say, minimum of one day [20:02] JustinGann: we dont let them know [20:02] SillyDan: maximum of two weeks [20:02] Petiflo: how do we make the difference? [20:02] SithLord1206: Sorry ot be off topic for a minute but, does it really count as

contributing, going around fixing grammer and spelling? [20:02] Petiflo: SithLord1206 it does [20:02] Gem_: 1day to 2 weeks, depending on how clear case it is [20:02] SillyDan: damn straight it does [20:02] JustinGann: over 1 week at least, bc people might be on vacation [20:02] Redemption: Definitly [20:02] Petiflo: it's necessary even [20:02] JustinGann: grammar is part of our academic appearance [20:02] Gem_: 1 day is okay for very clear cases, no need to wait for a week [20:03] *** Aiddat has joined #wookieepedia. [20:03] JustinGann: well, yeah [20:03] Aiddat: Hello, sorry if I'm late. [20:03] Petiflo: anyhow, many consensus and VfD are considered case by case I think... [20:03] Master76: Hey Aiddat [20:03] Petiflo: hello Aiddat [20:03] SillyDan: admins can undelete pages: we could have a requests for undeletion

page if we're concerned about too many speedy deletions [20:03] JustinGann: we will forgive you...this time [20:03] Petiflo: brb [20:03] Aiddat: Hey M76, I saw your message. [20:03] StarNeptune: Ok, so what about consensus on VfDs? [20:03] JustinGann: speedy deletes are usually for clearcut fanon [20:03] SillyDan: fast VFDs, I meant [20:04] StarNeptune: 75% for them, as well? [20:04] JustinGann: is that different from speedy delete? [20:04] SillyDan: 2/3rds, I'd say [20:04] Gem_: speedy deletes shouldn't really have a lot of people disagreeing [20:04] JustinGann: i dont think you can hope to get more than 2/3 often [20:04] JustinGann: no they shouldnt [20:04] SithLord1206: VfDs, Star Wars Wikia or not, seem pretty closely formatted. Cant

we take up some version of Wikipedias policy? [20:04] Gem_: if they have disagreements, its not a clear case [20:04] SillyDan: JustinGann: I'm talking about articles that get submitted to VFD and

deleted very quickly [20:04] JustinGann: oh [20:04] SillyDan: 1206: closely formatted? [20:05] SithLord1206: I'm sorry, I guess I said that wrong. It just seems that they work

pretty much the same, dont they? [20:05] LtNOWIS: Wikipedia closes there's in about a week, but they renominate if only

like 3 people contribute [20:05] JustinGann: do mods' votes count double? [20:05] SillyDan: no [20:05] StarNeptune: no [20:06] StarNeptune: That wouldn't be fair [20:06] Jaymach: technically, no [20:06] SillyDan: but at least admin has to develop an opinion in order to close a VFD.

8) [20:06] JustinGann: then why be a mod? [20:06] SillyDan: at least one [20:06] JustinGann: ;) [20:06] Jaymach: but when a lot of mods vote one way then it're more likely to go that

way, tbh [20:06] Petiflo: JustinGann to pretend you have power ^^ [20:06] JustinGann: how much does it cost to buy a vote from a mod [20:06] Jaymach: £40 [20:06] StarNeptune: 1000 buck [20:06] Aiddat: You aren't an admin to get what you want. You're to improve the

community. [20:06] Gem_: Admin != status thing. Admin = bunch of tools [20:06] SillyDan: JustinGann: to revert vandalism, help set policy, and get called gay

by random idiots [20:06] Aiddat: lol [20:06] Petiflo: 500 euros [20:07] StarNeptune: lol [20:07] StarNeptune: Poor Dan [20:07] JustinGann: Jaymach's the cheapest to buy [20:07] Petiflo: SillyDan : you just found the perfect definition [20:07] StarNeptune: Is that guy still bugging you? [20:07] Jaymach: I get more money that way [20:07] Aiddat: I have 2000 Republic dataries... [20:07] Aiddat: Back on track? [20:07] JustinGann: what are we discussing [20:07] Master76: umm [20:07] Petiflo: VfDs [20:07] JustinGann: oh VFDs [20:07] StarNeptune: Consensus on VfDs [20:07] Aiddat: Sounds like deletion policies. [20:07] Jaymach: Republic dataries? heh...the Republic doesn't exist out here [20:07] SillyDan: Star: no, I enjoy calling them idiots, so it's all OK. 8) [20:08] JustinGann: Republis dont have Mofferences [20:08] Petiflo: Jaymach we all know where this goes so... [20:08] Aiddat: Okay, back on topic guys? Heheh. [20:08] JustinGann: RepubliCs [20:08] JustinGann: 2/3 sounded good to me [20:08] LtNOWIS: yeah [20:08] Petiflo: wikipedia is a mofference anyway [20:08] JustinGann: and approval of one mod at least [20:08] StarNeptune: 2/3rds [20:08] Petiflo: I vote for 2/3 [20:08] Gem_: 2/3 would have lot of disagreeers [20:08] SithLord1206: i also agree [20:08] Jaymach: but is that 2/3 of any vote? [20:08] SillyDan: I think 2/3rds is a decent threshold for determining consensus in

cases where a VFD is being closed due to length [20:08] JustinGann: 2/3+1Mod [20:08] Aiddat: What is the current policy? I haven't paid much attention to them, and

how well it works now. [20:08] Gem_: thats not a clear case for removal, I think [20:09] StarNeptune: We don;t have a current policy [20:09] Aiddat: Oh... [20:09] Master76: oh [20:09] JustinGann: i think a mods approval at least indicates someoen intelligent has

looked over the evidence [20:09] Petiflo: that's why we're here [20:09] LtNOWIS: If there's very few people, than we should just sit on it until more

people vote. [20:09] Petiflo: JustinGann are you saying you are intelligent? [20:09] JustinGann: im not a mod [20:09] Petiflo: I'm joking, don't ban me [20:09] Petiflo: oh sorry [20:09] JustinGann: its ok [20:09] Aiddat: 2/3 sounds good. LOL 76. And Justin, if a moderator had to agree, that

would be like giving them... too much power. [20:09] JustinGann: i appreciate your exhaultation of my importance [20:09] nex|vdr: sounds good to me as well [20:10] Master76: yep [20:10] Jaymach: we're more than happy to take that power :) [20:10] Aiddat: Brb [20:10] Petiflo: JustinGann drop it ^^ [20:10] nex|vdr: 2/3 with 1 mod [20:10] Petiflo: hey mods, don't get cocky [20:10] JustinGann: i second my nomination [20:10] StarNeptune: You called us tools [20:10] StarNeptune: :P [20:10] JustinGann: tools are very powerful...consider the humble vibrosaw [20:11] Aiddat: Back [20:11] Gem_: if a mod disagrees with the majority, he shouldnt do what he wants [20:11] Petiflo: but a tool is like a puppet, who is the puppeteer? [20:11] Aiddat: I agree, Gem [20:11] StarNeptune: Where I come from, tool is an insult :P [20:11] Gem_: so the +1mod is not needed really [20:11] Petiflo: me too [20:11] JustinGann: a mod is supposed to MODerate, so what do they moderate if not votes [20:11] StarNeptune: vandalism [20:11] Petiflo: well they can moderate vote, but not say "I disagree with the vote,

it's cancelled" [20:11] Aiddat: Is mod a seperate rank/privelege/power, like beaurocrat? [20:12] SillyDan: we're unlikely to have a situation where all of the admins want to

keep an article but twice as many regular users want it gone [20:12] StarNeptune: mod = Admin [20:12] SillyDan: mod = admin = sysop [20:12] JustinGann: most mods have a strong pro-canon leaning [20:12] Aiddat: Okay. But beaurocrat is different, right? Aren't there three types? [20:12] JustinGann: so there votes should reflect canon policy [20:12] Aiddat: Sysop, bearucrat, ...? [20:12] JustinGann: we have a hierarchy? [20:12] StarNeptune: Bureaucrats are the ones who create mods [20:12] Aiddat: Yeah. [20:13] Aiddat: Thought so. [20:13] JustinGann: are there only 2 of those [20:13] SillyDan: bureaucrats are Riff and WhiteBoy, they can make people mods [20:13] SillyDan: there are also wikia staffers [20:13] Aiddat: They're the founders aren't they? [20:13] SillyDan: yes [20:13] Gem_: okay, thats a new topic: what is the adminship really? [20:13] Aiddat: Sorry. [20:13] JustinGann: does WhiteBoy still create mods [20:13] Gem_: adminship = tools, respect and responsibility. imho [20:13] LtNOWIS: not recently [20:13] Jaymach: WhiteBoy does when I remind him [20:13] Petiflo: little question : why was wikia created? there's wikipedia already [20:13] StarNeptune: Riffs has done it lately [20:13] Gem_: but not power to do what y ouwis hand others dont like [20:13] Jaymach: I just usually need to tell him over IM :P [20:13] *** tagar has joined #wookieepedia. [20:14] Aiddat: For more specific-topic Wikis. [20:14] * Jaymach shakes his fist at the absent founders [20:14] SillyDan: hello tagar [20:14] Petiflo: ok [20:14] *** tagar has signed off IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [20:14] JustinGann: well, thats my point...responsibility, I'm just saying we need mods

to approve a deletion to make sure we dont have mob rule [20:14] Aiddat: Hi Tagar. [20:14] Petiflo: SillyDan you scared him [20:14] Petiflo: or her [20:14] Master76: lol [20:14] * SillyDan is scary [20:14] Petiflo: not to me [20:14] Redemption: Doesn't have to try very hard [20:14] JustinGann: thats bc hes a mod and can BAN people [20:14] Aiddat: lol [20:14] *** tagar has joined #wookieepedia. [20:14] JustinGann: thats getting redundant [20:15] Gem_: responsibiliy != power. it means you are responsible for mistake s you

make. You shouldnt do any of htem as you are shown trust by giving the powers [20:15] StarNeptune: Which is ironic, since he's one of the less ban happy one [20:15] SillyDan: well, an admin is needed to delete an article. [20:15] *** tagar has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [20:15] Aiddat: 2/3 sounds good to me. [20:15] JustinGann: come back, Tagar, Im sorry! [20:15] SillyDan: no matter what criteria we come up with for deletion [20:15] Master76: lol [20:15] JustinGann: yeah 2/3 sounds ok [20:15] Master76: yeah 2/3 [20:15] Petiflo: JustinGann just say "hello" next time [20:15] Petiflo: 2/3 [20:15] Gem_: k [20:15] JustinGann: be quiet Petiflo or ill ban you [20:15] StarNeptune: lol [20:15] Petiflo: you can't :p [20:16] Master76: lol [20:16] *** tagar has joined #wookieepedia. [20:16] JustinGann: but you thought i could [20:16] StarNeptune: 'lo [20:16] SillyDan: ok, so: 2/3rds probably constitutes consensus on VFDs [20:16] JustinGann: HELLO! [20:16] Gem_: tagar: hi :D [20:16] Aiddat: Heh. [20:16] Petiflo: JustinGann but you told me you can't [20:16] Aiddat: Welcome back. [20:16] JustinGann: I was lying [20:16] Petiflo: hi tagar [20:16] Master76: hey [20:16] Petiflo: JustinGann I don't believe you ^^ [20:16] JustinGann: nuts [20:16] SillyDan: and timewise: I suggested min. 1 day, max 2 weeks. Make sense to

people? [20:16] StarNeptune: yes [20:16] Gem_: StarNeptune: yup [20:16] tagar: Hello [20:16] JustinGann: i suggest over a day [20:16] Aiddat: Hmm... yeah. [20:16] Petiflo: agreed [20:16] Aiddat: Hi Tagar. [20:16] JustinGann: 1.5-2 weeks sounds ok [20:17] Master76: yup [20:17] JustinGann: Tagar, you have truly troubled my conscience [20:17] SillyDan: and we could add a "request for undeletion" to the admin's noticeboard [20:17] SillyDan: though I suspect it mightn't be used a lot [20:17] JustinGann: undeletion sounds good [20:17] Aiddat: That sounds good. [20:17] Master76: yes [20:17] Redemption: I think you have more to worry about then just your conscience [20:17] SillyDan: much like our requests for unblock, which are often denied with

reason. [20:17] Petiflo: go for undeletion if needed [20:18] *** tagar has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [20:18] JustinGann: i did it again [20:18] Master76: noooo come back :P [20:18] Petiflo: yeah, we have to give ilusion of democracy don't we? [20:18] *** Jaymach has invited you to #wookieepedia-cabal. [20:18] SillyDan: so next topic? [20:18] Petiflo: JustinGann just don't talk to him/her [20:18] JustinGann: dispute resolution [20:18] JustinGann: those are big words [20:19] JustinGann: Is the Mediation Cabal like the Trade Federation? [20:19] Aiddat: Maybe undeletion requests with a... Tagar!... with a promise to improve

would be accepted more. [20:19] Aiddat: What's the medita... Mediation Cabal? [20:19] JustinGann: they suggested we have one in the Agenda [20:19] Aiddat: Oh. [20:19] JustinGann: the "real world" Wikia has one [20:19] StarNeptune: I don;t think we're big enough for that [20:19] Jaymach: nah we're really not [20:20] Aiddat: The agenda? Like, just what you guys are planning? [20:20] Aiddat: Hmm... [20:20] JustinGann: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Mofferences)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Mofferences [20:20] JustinGann: thats the Agenda [20:20] JustinGann: im reading it as we go along to see what we are doing [20:20] SillyDan: I think Sikon meant it as a means for settling disputes where admins

are possibly not being neutral [20:20] Aiddat: Oooh sorry I didn't read the page much. [20:20] Petiflo: so, dispute resolution... [20:20] StarNeptune: Admin's noticeboard\ [20:20] JustinGann: so its a cabal made of non-admins? [20:20] Jaymach: yeah that's kinda what the admin noticeboard is for [20:20] *** NKSCF has joined #wookieepedia. [20:21] LtNOWIS: hello [20:21] Jaymach: if you need admin help, even against another admin, then you go there [20:21] JustinGann: and it has a nice picture [20:21] Master76: Hey [20:21] Master76: your late NKSCF [20:21] JustinGann: thats Jaymach in the front, the guy with three eyes [20:21] NKSCF: Hi, I was curious to see what was happening. Hey JM! [20:21] Petiflo: hi NKSCF [20:21] Aiddat: Oh, I missed the consensus track discussion - hi NK! - how did that turn

out? [20:21] JustinGann: i dont know and i was here [20:21] Aiddat: I'm a Gran! I have three eyes! :P [20:21] StarNeptune: CTs are now closed after a week [20:22] StarNeptune: er, of inactivity [20:22] Petiflo: of inactivity [20:22] Aiddat: Those are policy forums, right? [20:22] StarNeptune: yes [20:22] Petiflo: CT policy [20:22] JustinGann: yeah basically [20:22] Petiflo: as of now [20:22] Aiddat: Okay. [20:22] JustinGann: "concensus track" [20:22] *** danwall88 has joined #wookieepedia. [20:22] NKSCF: Hi [20:22] StarNeptune: omg [20:22] Jaymach: hey Dan [20:22] Petiflo: and a agreement is reach when 2/3 of participants agree [20:22] JustinGann: is that the real Dan Wallace? [20:22] StarNeptune: Are you really Dan Wallace [20:22] Aiddat: What? [20:23] NKSCF: Huh, is he a vandal? [20:23] Jaymach: it's certainly the alias he uses on AIM [20:23] StarNeptune: No [20:23] JustinGann: wow [20:23] NKSCF: or something [20:23] StarNeptune: He's a SW writer [20:23] SillyDan: for heaven's sake people [20:23] Jaymach: though he's not on AIM atm [20:23] danwall88: Hey guys, heard you were having a Mofference. And nobody loves GODV

more than me [20:23] SillyDan: Hi Dan Wallace! [20:23] Aiddat: lol [20:23] StarNeptune: lo,l [20:23] NKSCF: whoa [20:23] danwall88: It's me, really. [20:23] danwall88: Just saying hi [20:23] StarNeptune: Nice to meet you [20:23] JustinGann: ill take your word [20:23] *** danwall88 is i=443e14ef@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/unlabeled ([c-68-

62-20-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] __utmc=251085) [20:23] *** danwall88 is on: #wookieepedia [20:23] *** danwall88 is using irc.freenode.net (Link: http://freenode.net/)

http://freenode.net/ [20:23] *** End of /WHOIS. [20:23] JustinGann: im gullible [20:23] Petiflo: nice to meet you [20:23] JustinGann: hey dan thx for posting your neat map [20:23] Aiddat: Oh, cool. [20:24] JustinGann: (Link: http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/danwall88/map2.jpg)

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/danwall88/map2.jpg [20:24] Redemption: Gee, maybe if I come in as georgeluc77 then people will get ecstatic

about me... [20:24] Master76: cool, nice to meet you [20:24] LtNOWIS: :0 [20:24] Gem_: Hi! [20:24] danwall88: No prob! Keep up the good work. I'm excited about the concept

behind Wikis, and think they can really promote the "wisdom of crowds" concept. [20:24] JustinGann: for those who have not seen it, this is the proto map all official

NJO/post NJO maps are based off of, drawn by Dan, with Ukio in the CORRECT location [20:24] NKSCF: Ah [20:25] * Jaymach shakes his fist and demands ambiguously canon planets be added to it

lol [20:25] Petiflo: it's good to know wiki is not only frequented by fans [20:25] JustinGann: i put them on my map;) [20:25] danwall88: Well, "correct" being a matter of degree, since my map is technically

unofficial (because it wasn't published intact) [20:25] JustinGann: but your placement makes sense with the Thrawn Trilogy [20:25] NKSCF: lol, looks good, btw [20:25] Aiddat: Oh, a Galaxy Map? Cool. [20:25] danwall88: Thanks [20:25] NKSCF: You're welcome [20:26] *** JustinGann has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [20:26] Jaymach: so...uh...shall we get back on topic? :) [20:26] Redemption: Ah, I love how ot this can get just because Mr. Wallace decides to

pop in. [20:26] *** JustinGann has joined #wookieepedia. [20:26] StarNeptune: lol [20:26] danwall88: Anyway, thanks -- was just visiting the Wiki to get links for

"Mrisst" and "Mrlsst" and saw the mofference notice. Take care! [20:26] SillyDan: thanks! [20:26] Aiddat: Lol [20:26] JustinGann: k [20:26] Redemption: Guess he looked in the mirror.. [20:26] Petiflo: CU [20:26] Master76: cya [20:26] NKSCF: Bye [20:26] SillyDan: hey, does this mean we'll get an explanation for that? [20:26] Aiddat: Cool. Be nice if you came by again. [20:26] Gem_: HAve fun :) [20:26] danwall88: Bye [20:26] SillyDan: because I was wondering [20:26] Aiddat: Uh, I have to go too. [20:26] Aiddat: Cya guys. [20:27] *** danwall88 has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [20:27] JustinGann: for those not in the know, Dan made his original Essential Guide to

Planets and Moons as a fan work online [20:27] Petiflo: cya [20:27] Aiddat: I'll be back in a while. [20:27] NKSCF: See ya, Aiddat! [20:27] Petiflo: JustinGann what did he wrote? [20:27] SillyDan: yeah, I have the text file somewhere [20:27] Aiddat: See ya soon NK, JM. [20:27] NKSCF: lol, he did [20:27] Master76: ya [20:27] * Jaymach coughs [20:27] *** Aiddat has signed off IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [20:27] Jaymach: topic, no? [20:27] Master76: yes [20:27] Petiflo: yeah sorry [20:27] JustinGann: he wrote Essential Guide to Planets and Moons, Essential Chronology,

and Jaymach is coughing [20:27] SillyDan: right, so the mediation cabal discussion was a bust [20:27] Petiflo: what was it again [20:27] Master76: where were we [20:27] JustinGann: [hands Jaymach coughdrop] [20:27] Master76: oh ya [20:27] StarNeptune: Mediation cabal = The suck [20:27] JustinGann: I think it sounds scary [20:28] SillyDan: let's save that for when we have more admins? [20:28] JustinGann: can we have a famous person visit the next Mofference? [20:28] Petiflo: how many admins is there btw? [20:28] StarNeptune: We have the admin's noticebaord, and that's all we need for now [20:28] Jaymach: 13, I believe [20:28] LtNOWIS: So, did we decide to stop making more admins? [20:28] JustinGann: does that inc the Bur.s? [20:28] SillyDan: 16 admins [20:28] JustinGann: 16! [20:28] Jaymach: we have 16? ah well [20:28] SillyDan: counting Riff and Whiteboy [20:28] JustinGann: at least thats not unlucky # [20:28] Jaymach: but we didn't so much decide to stop making them as one admin did :P [20:29] JustinGann: Riffs I guess [20:29] Jaymach: uh...no [20:29] StarNeptune: It was Sparq [20:29] SillyDan: only because we were in the midst of a divisive discussion [20:29] StarNeptune: And i kind of agree with him [20:29] JustinGann: well dont you need 17 for tiebreakers? [20:29] StarNeptune: 2 of them are inactive [20:29] JustinGann: 14 is still an even # [20:29] StarNeptune: adn haven't posted in months [20:29] Master76: which ones? [20:30] JustinGann: who is adn [20:30] StarNeptune: MarcK shows up once in a blue moon [20:30] Jaymach: *and :P [20:30] *** SithLord1206 has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [20:30] SillyDan: well, to be fair, they might come back [20:30] JustinGann: ohhhh [20:30] Jaymach: Imp's work is deep sea fishing [20:30] Jaymach: so he leaves for loooong periods of time [20:30] StarNeptune: Aidje I haven't seen in months [20:30] SillyDan: and I'd hate to have my status stripped from me when I disappear for a

few weeks for work [20:30] JustinGann: I think Rifs is busy with school [20:30] NKSCF: Understandable [20:30] StarNeptune: WhiteBoy is addicted to WoW [20:31] JustinGann: Warcraft? [20:31] StarNeptune: yeah [20:31] JustinGann: isnt that treason? [20:31] Petiflo: StarNeptune so we'll probably never see hm again [20:31] Jaymach: I've not contributed much in a while because of the Stargate wiki...I'm

trying to garner interest in it [20:31] JustinGann: that IS treason [20:31] Jaymach: but I'm always in here if admin's are ever needed [20:31] StarNeptune: I'm over at the fanon wiki [20:31] Master76: lol [20:31] JustinGann: although I did watch the Stargate marathon yesterday [20:31] SillyDan: anyway: new topic: Speaking of the consensus track: we should close

out the discussions on blocking policy, user images, signatures, and sockpuppetry. —

Silly Dan (talk) 00:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC) [20:31] NKSCF: One admin's better than none, SN! [20:31] StarNeptune: true [20:32] SillyDan: (blocking policy has been made policy already, so never mind about

that) [20:32] Petiflo: I have to participate to those [20:32] JustinGann: user images [20:32] Gem_: user images policy seems to be ok to everyone [20:32] JustinGann: whats wrong with user images [20:32] StarNeptune: too many [20:32] Redemption: Alot of uploaded crap [20:32] SillyDan: we just don't want too many [20:32] Jaymach: far too many [20:32] Gem_: 3 images, each max 100kb [20:32] JustinGann: as in images of them [20:32] JustinGann: or images on their page [20:32] SillyDan: though I'm wondering if that's too harsh [20:32] Jaymach: images used solely on their page [20:32] Gem_: ma use more images if they are used elsewhere in the wiki [20:33] Jaymach: you can have as many images as you want if they're used on other pages

though [20:33] Redemption: Bah. [20:33] Gem_: Btw: How do we prevent people from putting images into use in other places

too to get more images on their userpage? [20:33] Jaymach: as long as they enhance the article then it'd fine [20:33] Jaymach: *it's [20:33] Gem_: Ie I could upload 10 images for my user page and add them to other

articles first as cover [20:33] SillyDan: well, if they're not useful to the wiki (say, pictures of their cat)

then they'd be removed from articles [20:33] Gem_: ok, so someone needs to monitor his :) [20:33] JustinGann: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Placene.jpg)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Placene.jpg [20:34] JustinGann: that can be deleted, as i have the entire map up now [20:34] NKSCF: Ok [20:34] JustinGann: just doing my bit there [20:34] SillyDan: you sure? [20:34] JustinGann: yeah [20:34] LtNOWIS: you can but a tag if you're the uploader and it's on your

page. [20:35] * SillyDan blasts it [20:35] JustinGann: stink you can delete the pic of me if you want [20:35] JustinGann: i wont cry (much) [20:35] SillyDan: no no, that's fine [20:35] Gem_: so user image policy is ok? no one disagrees? [20:35] SillyDan: if you have three small images, you're OK [20:35] SillyDan: actually, I think it could be adapted [20:35] NKSCF: no disagreements here [20:35] Redemption: Besides the policy on how many images can be used at all on your

page, no problem with it [20:35] SillyDan: some may want it slightly expanded [20:35] Gem_: maby change 100kb pre image to a total of 500kb? [20:36] SillyDan: that I actually like better [20:36] StarNeptune: Didn't Culator suggest that? [20:36] Gem_: but stil la limit of 3 images, just to prevent spamming millionsof small

ones [20:36] Jaymach: Culator did indeed [20:36] Jaymach: not seen him lately though [20:36] JustinGann: most of my pics are SW related, and used in articles [20:36] Gem_: *typos ftw* [20:36] JustinGann: ok i have an idea [20:37] SillyDan: which is prefectly good [20:37] JustinGann: Jaymach brought up the point that Modi and Carty's maps are not,

technically, canon [20:37] JustinGann: could we just have a link on the galaxy page to a special

cartography page to highlight these fan maps and theoretical placements? [20:38] SillyDan: I don't know -- that's another topic in itself [20:38] JustinGann: k [20:38] JustinGann: well we can discuss that next time? [20:38] * Jaymach wanted that all along but didn't have anyone agreeing with him [20:38] JustinGann: bc Jaymach had a valid point [20:38] Gem_: so upd to 3 images, up to 500kb total? that ok? [20:38] NKSCF: Or make a forum? [20:38] StarNeptune: Custom sigs [20:38] StarNeptune: Have we decided yet on how to proceed? [20:38] JustinGann: Jaymach, I am trying to work with you on this;) [20:38] SillyDan: we're still talking user images: any objections to (a) changing the

policy from 3 images all under 100 k to 3 images under 500 k in total [20:38] JustinGann: no [20:38] LtNOWIS: I think we had a huge discussion on fan-made maps. [20:39] JustinGann: k [20:39] NKSCF: nope [20:39] Master76: nope [20:39] LtNOWIS: no [20:39] SillyDan: and (b) making it official policy as of now? [20:39] JustinGann: if people want personal pics, they can get myspace [20:39] Gem_: no objections :) [20:39] LtNOWIS: just so we're clear, images from articles are ok, right? [20:39] SillyDan: yes, yes, yes [20:39] nex|vdr: no objections here either [20:39] Redemption: Can we put a limit on how many though? [20:39] SillyDan: this is only restricting pictures of your cat or whatnot [20:39] Petiflo: I'm OK with that [20:39] JustinGann: i dont have a cat [20:39] NKSCF: sounds good [20:40] JustinGann: thats discrimination [20:40] SillyDan: (why is it never pictures of your dog? it's always cats) [20:40] JustinGann: i dont have a dog either [20:40] Petiflo: off topic [20:40] NKSCF: lol [20:40] Master76: i do [20:40] StarNeptune: I can put up a pic of my guinea pig [20:40] JustinGann: curse you all [20:40] Master76: lol [20:40] Gem_: ok, then user page policy [20:40] LtNOWIS: I have cats. [20:40] SillyDan: right, I'm making the change and declaring it policy [20:41] Petiflo: we should havea policy against those pages containing tons of userboxes [20:41] SillyDan: we can quibble over size later [20:41] JustinGann: userboxes? [20:41] Jaymach: sounds good enough [20:41] Redemption: And a policy to prevent...this mess.. [20:41] JustinGann: you mean, I speak English? [20:41] Redemption: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Mas1%40)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Mas1%40 [20:41] SillyDan: this will restrict them: the userpages with lots of userboxes have too

many images [20:41] Jaymach: Userboxes have to be submitted for approval now anyway [20:41] Petiflo: yeah "this user is a fan of mandalorians" [20:41] Jaymach: but officially accepted userboxes don't count towards the images [20:41] NKSCF: Sweet Jesus! That' [20:41] Jaymach: unofficial ones would [20:41] Gem_: Redemption: there is the gallery format [20:42] Jaymach: but not official [20:42] NKSCF: s alot of pics! [20:42] Master76: brb guys [20:42] *** JackNebulax has joined #wookieepedia. [20:42] SillyDan: hey Jack [20:42] LtNOWIS: Hey Jack [20:42] NKSCF: yo [20:42] Redemption: It's not my page. It's an example of what should not be made of a

userpage [20:42] Gem_: Redemption: the policy says that the gallery should e used for more than 5

images [20:42] JackNebulax: Hey guys. [20:42] Gem_: I now it's not yours [20:42] JustinGann: thats not a userpage at all [20:42] SillyDan: it says "should" [20:42] Redemption: It's a junkyard... [20:42] SillyDan: not must [20:42] SillyDan: ok, changing it now [20:43] Gem_: SillyDan: dont put must. or change 5 to a bit larger number [20:43] Petiflo: hi jack [20:43] Jaymach: I don't think they must be in the Gallery format [20:43] Petiflo: and about userboxes? [20:44] Jaymach: for example, the people with fanon bio's (boo hiss btw) usually use

them as they would in an actual article [20:44] SillyDan: approved userboxes are without limit [20:44] Gem_: preferably just say "should" [20:44] SillyDan: yes, I'm not changing that bit [20:44] Petiflo: SillyDan and non-approved? that's my point [20:44] StarNeptune: Some of those unappoved userboxes are ridicoulous [20:44] JustinGann: should is a transparent word [20:44] Gem_: SillyDan: ah, ok [20:44] StarNeptune: I mean in terms of having 50 and their content [20:44] SillyDan: transparent word? [20:44] JustinGann: people dont even see it there;) [20:45] Redemption: Should basically gives people the option [20:45] JustinGann: yep [20:45] NKSCF: on the fanon bio's that's what the SWFanon is for [20:45] JustinGann: so you might as well not say anything [20:45] JustinGann: [rushes to change UserPage...nah] [20:45] SillyDan: what should I say then? [20:45] JustinGann: must! [20:45] SillyDan: no [20:46] Gem_: user images = done with. now lets talk about user page policy [20:46] StarNeptune: Which includes ridiculous amounts of userboxes, I hope? [20:46] Petiflo: we already know they must not be the user primary contribution [20:46] SillyDan: only if they have images [20:46] Redemption: And idiotic ones with crude colors [20:47] Gem_: no illegal/inappropriate material/links [20:47] NKSCF: all right [20:47] Petiflo: let's jsut say "non-approved userboxes" [20:47] JustinGann: crude colors? [20:47] Gem_: thats's mising from the policy suggestion [20:47] Whopper: yep [20:47] JustinGann: whats a crude color? [20:47] StarNeptune: Bright fushia [20:47] NKSCF: lol [20:47] Jaymach: purple and green [20:47] Redemption: Basically colors that stand out too much like the "Padme is hot"

userbox. [20:48] Jaymach: when used together, that is [20:48] StarNeptune: lime green [20:48] JustinGann: that sounds like a celestial phenomenon [20:48] Petiflo: and muticolor ones of course [20:48] SillyDan: so any objections to making (Link:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:User_page_policy)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:User_page_policy policy? [20:48] Gem_: limiting colors seems a bit... harsh.... [20:49] Gem_: SillyDan: add the suggested illegal/inappropriate thing :) [20:49] Redemption: It's for our own good [20:49] NKSCF: sounds good to me [20:49] JustinGann: what is this, fashion police? [20:49] Redemption: You can call it that. [20:49] Redemption: I call it prevention of eye sores [20:49] Whopper: lol [20:49] Petiflo: no objections [20:49] JustinGann: purple and green dont please you, Jaymach? Dont let HIM hear you: [20:49] JustinGann: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Prince_Xizor_NEGTC.jpg)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Prince_Xizor_NEGTC.jpg [20:50] NKSCF: ol [20:50] SillyDan: besides, if people have to stay w/in our user image and user box

policy, there will be less of that [20:50] nex|vdr: looks good [20:50] Gem_: well, user page != main contribution, means that user page colors !=

important [20:50] SillyDan: exactly! [20:50] nex|vdr: the policydoes [20:50] JustinGann: SW-3 is official and its an ugly color [20:50] JustinGann: it looks like "fur of camel" [20:50] Redemption: But it's not a bright pink [20:51] JustinGann: but its a camel [20:51] Petiflo: what do you have against camels? [20:51] NKSCF: Their color, apparently [20:51] JustinGann: they arent a pretty color [20:51] SillyDan: the addition to the policy suggested by Gem is as follows: [20:51] Master76: Im back [20:51] SillyDan: * User pages and images within must be "safe for work": no content

which is unsuitable for a family audience or would be likely to disturb or offend other

users. Any illegal or inappropriate content or links to such material is forbidden. [20:51] JustinGann: and they swat you in the forehead when you ride them [20:51] SillyDan: sound ok to add? [20:51] Petiflo: ok for me [20:51] StarNeptune: yes [20:51] LtNOWIS: yeah [20:51] NKSCF: ok! [20:51] nex|vdr: yes [20:51] Master76: ya [20:51] Gem_: :) yay! [20:52] SillyDan: right, it's policy [20:52] JustinGann: hurray [20:52] Petiflo: up until now we've agreed easily on everything... let's hope it keeps

that way [20:52] SillyDan: caveat: if a lot of people who were not at the meeting object to these

policies, they may go back to "proposed" status [20:52] JustinGann: they should have been here [20:52] NKSCF: all righty [20:52] JustinGann: sockpuppetry [20:53] Petiflo: SillyDan they may go in hell [20:53] NKSCF: that's a little harsh [20:53] Gem_: sockpuppets aren't a big problem for this wiki, or am I wrong? [20:53] SillyDan: sockpuppets: [20:53] SillyDan: minor problem, really [20:53] Petiflo: what's a suckpuppet? [20:53] StarNeptune: We're lucky [20:53] StarNeptune: rofl [20:53] Master76: rofl [20:53] StarNeptune: tehy do suck [20:53] NKSCF: lol [20:53] Petiflo: what? [20:54] Redemption: A sock with little buttons that you put shows on with. [20:54] Gem_: If a user is caught, I suggest banning all but one of his user names [20:54] Redemption: All but ONE? [20:54] Master76: yes [20:54] Gem_: then allow him to use only one user name [20:54] JustinGann: have we caught any sockpuppets [20:54] Gem_: if he is making good contribs, don't block all [20:54] Gem_: if he is vandlising, treat the same as vandals [20:54] JustinGann: sockpuppet=Jekyll and Hyde [20:54] SillyDan: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Sock_puppetry)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Sock_puppetry [20:54] StarNeptune: The fanon wiki is plagued with them, so we are pretty lucky [20:54] Petiflo: StarNeptune : how do you say sockpuppet in french? [20:54] SillyDan: any objections to making this policy? [20:54] JustinGann: "sockpuppet in french" [20:55] StarNeptune: lol [20:55] NKSCF: one [20:55] Petiflo: lol [20:55] Petiflo: very funny [20:55] NKSCF: none, my bad [20:55] Gem_: I object, if I remember it all correctly [20:55] JustinGann: "le puppet de sock" [20:55] Petiflo: ok thx SillyDan [20:55] SillyDan: we have a few admitted sockpuppets [20:55] Petiflo: "marionnette de chaussette" [20:55] JustinGann: send them to Sockpuppets Anonymous [20:55] Gem_: Let a sockpuppeteer keep one user name [20:55] StarNeptune: yeah [20:55] Gem_: ...if he does goood contribs [20:55] NKSCF: all right [20:55] Petiflo: makes no sense lol [20:55] SillyDan: and some established via CheckUser (finding they have the same IPs) [20:55] Gem_: if not, he should be banned anyways [20:56] LtNOWIS: no objections [20:56] Petiflo: none either [20:56] SillyDan: wait Gem: I'm sorry, don't understand the objection? [20:56] Gem_: aah, the policy page already says what Iwant :) [20:56] SillyDan: yay! [20:56] Gem_: SillyDan: sorry, my bad [20:56] Master76: chaussette marionnette is sockpuppet in French :P [20:56] Gem_: I remembered tat it was different [20:57] JustinGann: sockpuppets are only bad if used for vandalism or to throw votes [20:57] JustinGann: a sock is a chausette? [20:57] Master76: i guess [20:57] StarNeptune: yep [20:57] Petiflo: in french yes [20:57] SillyDan: yes, I have two alt. accounts myself: only edit as SillyDan though [20:57] Gem_: JustinGann: or to cause fighting and disagreements between sockpupets [20:57] Petiflo: does it mean something else in english? [20:57] NKSCF: a big word for a small one, lol [20:57] Master76: ya [20:57] SillyDan: ok, that's policy too [20:58] Petiflo: what's that? [20:58] JustinGann: I can think of valid reasons for more than one account [20:58] SillyDan: yes. Which is why our policy doesn't forbid it [20:58] StarNeptune: To run a bot [20:58] SillyDan: unless it's to get around a ban, to stack votes, or whatnot [20:58] StarNeptune: to change your username [20:58] Gem_: SillyDan: read the page, its there allready [20:58] JustinGann: whered Jaymach go [20:59] SillyDan: I know! I wrote it. 8) [20:59] Gem_: woops, damn tab [20:59] Gem_: I menat to talk to StarNeptune [20:59] JustinGann: Jaymach DIED [20:59] StarNeptune: I've read the page too [20:59] Gem_: I think it's a bit too late for me. :) 04:00 [20:59] SillyDan: ok, custom sigs? [20:59] JustinGann: so why was it on the agenda? [20:59] StarNeptune: I also also propsed a stricter version of this policy over at the

fanon wiki [20:59] NKSCF: don't see a problem with them [20:59] SillyDan: because it was only proposed policy [20:59] Master76: i agree [21:00] SillyDan: wanted more input before declaring it to be "the rules" [21:00] Gem_: Another wikis policy for sigs: [21:00] JustinGann: custom sigs for talk pages? [21:00] SillyDan: yes [21:00] Gem_: limit of 100 characters of code [21:00] JustinGann: wow [21:00] Gem_: I support that [21:00] JustinGann: i have trouble even remembering to sign [21:00] StarNeptune: lol [21:00] Gem_: excluding user page name and link to it [21:00] JustinGann: again, people want fancy quotes, they can go to myspace [21:00] Gem_: so 100 + user page link [21:00] NKSCF: sounds ok [21:00] StarNeptune: Who's going to count how many characters they have in their sig? [21:00] SillyDan: for those coming in late: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?

title=Forum:Restrictions_on_custom_user_signatures&t=20060819003256)

http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?

title=Forum:Restrictions_on_custom_user_signatures&t=20060819003256 [21:01] Petiflo: ok to me [21:01] nex|vdr: i agree [21:01] Master76: ok tome [21:01] Master76: to me [21:01] Gem_: for me that would be 100 + user:Gem [21:01] JustinGann: i think 100 is too many even [21:01] *** Gorblax has joined #wookieepedia. [21:01] NKSCF: Hi [21:01] Petiflo: I didn't even know you could have a custom signature [21:01] Gem_: maby 50? [21:01] SillyDan: clear case of no consensus on the CT thread [21:01] Master76: hey Gorblax [21:01] Gorblax: Hello, everyone! First time in the channel. [21:01] Petiflo: welcome then [21:01] SillyDan: Hello Gorblax! [21:02] JustinGann: well im saying farewell, so prepare yourselves [21:02] JustinGann: "Farewell!" [21:02] Gem_: with the character limit we also need image height limit of 20 pixels [21:02] SillyDan: bye Justin! [21:02] JustinGann: ok, that was exciting [21:02] NKSCF: see ya [21:02] nex|vdr: later justin [21:02] Gem_: cu [21:02] Petiflo: cy JustinGann [21:02] JackNebulax: Bye, Justin. [21:02] JustinGann: and in advance, I vote tolerance on QOTDs [21:02] *** Mode change "+v LtNOWIS" for channel #wookieepedia by ChanServ. [21:02] *** JustinGann has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [21:02] Master76: cya [21:03] Master76: anyway, about the signatures [21:03] SillyDan: if we're going by rules where we let the least restrictive option

prevail with stalled CT threads [21:03] Gem_: So do people support 50 characters + user page/talk page link? [21:03] Gem_: and max 20 pixel high images? [21:03] Petiflo: yep [21:03] SillyDan: Small (appropriate)[1] pictures, one font color, optional link to talk

page seems to be winning [21:04] NKSCF: ok [21:04] Gorblax: 50 characters? That seems a little low. [21:04] Petiflo: sounds well enough for a talk page [21:04] JackNebulax: Can we also have a link to our contributions like I have? [21:04] SillyDan: not under those rules.... [21:04] Gem_: Gorblax: remember that the user page or talk page link comes on top of

that [21:04] SillyDan: but probably under Gem's rules it's OK [21:04] Gem_: there is plenty of room for links and images in 50 chars [21:05] JackNebulax: So, I take it mine is fine. [21:05] StarNeptune: My only complaint is who is going to stop and count how many

characters a person has in their sig? [21:05] Gem_: the char limit makes talk pages easier to read/edit when looking at

source. It also limits too much eye candy [21:05] Petiflo: well you're signature doesn't allow it, put it on your userpage and

link your signature to it [21:06] Gem_: should we put this suggestion on the wiki and have a revote with the new

option? [21:07] SillyDan: perhaps we should restart the thread with Gem's suggestion? [21:07] SillyDan: Yes, I support this idea [21:07] JackNebulax: I might as well just remove the contributions link and keep it with

a link to my userpage, talk page, and the Imperial logo. [21:07] nex|vdr: yeah that seems fitting [21:07] NKSCF: ok [21:07] SillyDan: though I think I'll still vote for the option I went for last time [21:07] Gem_: SillyDan: what's wrong with my option? :) [21:08] SillyDan: I don't know yet, but I may think of something. 8) [21:08] Gem_: my option doesn't really allow anything disturbing, but makes code easier

t orad [21:08] Gem_: images are limited i nsize (and ofcourse content), so should be no

problems [21:08] SillyDan: ok, start a new thread, we'll vote on it, and we'll make something or

other policy within two weeks. [21:09] Gem_: and multicolors aren't possible in 50 chars :) [21:09] SillyDan: aha! [21:09] Gem_: or maby 2 colors :) but it's not too bad [21:10] *** DarthOblivion has joined #wookieepedia. [21:10] StarNeptune: Next topic? [21:10] LtNOWIS: hello [21:10] NKSCF: Hey [21:10] SillyDan: Real-world quotes policy. Sapienti sat. - Sikon [Talk] 14:40, 12

August 2006 (UTC) [21:11] Gem_: Oh damn it's late. I'll go to bed now [21:11] NKSCF: see ya [21:11] Master76: cya [21:11] SillyDan: now that we've closed the 2nd Traviss quote VFD [21:11] nex|vdr: later [21:11] SillyDan: goodnight! [21:11] *** Aiddat has joined #wookieepedia. [21:11] Petiflo: ++ Gem_ [21:11] Gorblax: I came here to talk about an issue that really bugs me. There are a ton

of articles in the wiki that give you no more than a sentence of vague information.

Shouldn't there be some sort of character minimum for each entry? [21:11] Aiddat: Is it still on? [21:11] SillyDan: Gorblax: no [21:11] Gem_: Cu all around. :) I got to discuss all hte matters I wanted to [21:11] NKSCF: hey. buddy [21:11] Aiddat: Did I miss it? [21:11] Master76: nope [21:11] Aiddat: Hi again NK. [21:11] Aiddat: Okay, what topic are we on now? [21:11] SillyDan: many items only have one sentence of info avail. [21:11] NKSCF: quotes [21:12] SillyDan: Real World Wookieequote [21:12] Master76: Real-world quotes policy [21:12] Aiddat: Like "Super battle droid..." oh [21:12] Gem_: *I have IRC on 24/7, so not leaving channel* bye! [21:12] Petiflo: I think I'll go too [21:12] Aiddat: Bye gem. [21:12] Aiddat: By Petiflo. [21:12] NKSCF: cya [21:12] Aiddat: Bye^ [21:12] Master76: cya [21:12] Gorblax: So, maybe they shouldn't get their own page, Dan. [21:12] Petiflo: bye all [21:12] JackNebulax: Bye to the both of you. [21:12] Aiddat: Hi Jack. [21:12] LtNOWIS: That's how we do it here, with small pages. [21:12] Gorblax: Perhaps the little-known elements should be grouped into bigger

categories. [21:13] SillyDan: Gorblax: yes they should. You never know when a new source will

expand on an offhand mention [21:13] LtNOWIS: Every individual, species, star, or planet gets an article, even if we

only know a sentence. [21:13] *** Petiflo has signed off IRC. [21:13] SillyDan: I agree one-sentence stubs aren't always helpful [21:13] Gorblax: Then, when enough information is readily available, only THEN should

the topic get its own page. [21:13] SillyDan: but sometimes that's all we have [21:13] NKSCF: yes they are, I've written a lot of them [21:13] Gorblax: Until then, it should be grouped with something else. [21:13] SillyDan: how do we decide when there's enough info? [21:13] Aiddat: Well I think that small articles should stand alone. [21:13] StarNeptune: Okay, I;ve got to go [21:14] SillyDan: bye Star! [21:14] LtNOWIS: bye [21:14] Aiddat: Bye Star [21:14] NKSCF: cya, SN! [21:14] Master76: cya [21:14] Gorblax: Well, Dan, if the article is only a sentence long, it's probably not

enough information. [21:14] StarNeptune: but in advance, I'd just like to say that Wookiepedian QOTDs should

be baned [21:14] NKSCF: Silly Dan: when they have an appearance or source [21:14] JackNebulax: Bye Star. [21:14] SillyDan: yes! [21:14] Redemption: Usually there is enough info [21:14] Master76: yah, but sometimes thats all we have from canon sources [21:14] Aiddat: Hmm. I like QOTDs from our users. [21:14] Redemption: It's just that alot of people don't write alot [21:14] Redemption: And alot of people aren't so precise [21:14] Gorblax: It should be, say, longer than the introduction paragraph for the

Emperor Palpatine entry. [21:15] Aiddat: I get tired of redirects. [21:15] JackNebulax: I agree that Wookieepedian QOTDs should be banned. [21:15] StarNeptune: I might be back later. Bye. [21:15] SillyDan: true: if they're sourced, and categorized, that's almost like three

sentences right there [21:15] Gorblax: I agree with Jack on that. [21:15] *** StarNeptune is now known as Star|Away. [21:15] SillyDan: anyway, the current subject is realworld Wookieequotes: let's get back

on that, shall we? [21:15] NKSCF: sounds good to me [21:15] LtNOWIS: ok [21:15] JackNebulax: Fine by me. [21:15] Aiddat: Mmm... My 2 opinions: Stubs: Keep them as individual pages|Wookieepedian

QOTDs: Keep [21:16] Gorblax: I, for one, am for real-world wookiequotes by non-Wookiepedians. [21:16] SillyDan: (i.e. Quote: Tim Zahn, Mark Hamill, etc., not QOTD) [21:16] SillyDan: ANYWAY, [21:16] Aiddat: Yes? [21:16] SillyDan: as I noted, we closed the 2nd VFD debate on Quote:Karen Traviss [21:16] NKSCF: I enjoy them, that Gammorean/turbolaser quote was good [21:16] Gorblax: Argh. I always forget the extra "e" in "wookiee." [21:16] Master76: ya [21:16] Aiddat: Yeah. [21:16] Gorblax: It's just so counter-intuitive. [21:17] SillyDan: with the caveat that we should decide on a policy about quoting real

people [21:17] SillyDan: I think the vote to keep and restrict has a start on good guidelines [21:17] SillyDan: so who wants to use that as a starter for a CT thread? [21:17] Gorblax: Quotes from real people somehow involved with the SW Universe, such as

actors, directors, and authors, should be allowed. [21:17] NKSCF: yes [21:17] Aiddat: Yes. I agree. [21:17] JackNebulax: Agreed, but they should be restricted. [21:18] DarthOblivion: agree [21:18] Gorblax: Restricted to what? [21:18] SillyDan: because this is an issue which I don't think can be resolved on a one

-hour IRC [21:18] Aiddat: LOL. I just discovered "Moffrence" was a canon term. I thought we just

made it up. [21:18] JackNebulax: No, I mean by the "keep and restrict" option. [21:18] NKSCF: In-universe quotes more than out-universe [21:18] LtNOWIS: They should be restricted to ones that can be verified. [21:18] SillyDan: Gorblax: they need to be sourced, in context, and related to Star Wars [21:18] * SillyDan reminds everyone we're not talking about QOTD yet [21:18] LtNOWIS: "In context" is pretty vague. [21:18] Gorblax: Tell you what: If you're in the credits for a SW movie or on the jacket

of a book, you're allowed to be quoted. [21:19] Gorblax: Or in the credit box at the start of a comic. [21:19] SillyDan: yes, that's what we got out of the Traviss quote debate, that's not

being questioned [21:19] Aiddat: So I see Karen Traviss's quote page got deleted. [21:19] Gorblax: There's the limit. [21:19] Redemption: But nobody really cares if "one day you spilled coffee on the cat

while you were writing a Star Wars" book [21:19] Aiddat: Lol [21:19] LtNOWIS: no, Karen's quote page is still here. [21:20] Gorblax: Okay. The quote has to be specifically addressing the SW Universe. [21:20] NKSCF: Agreed [21:20] SillyDan: what do you mean, Aiddat? [21:20] Aiddat: Uh... well it doesn't seem to be categorized then... let me double

check. [21:20] Aiddat: What do I mean by what? [21:20] Gorblax: Or an element contained therein. [21:20] SillyDan: it's not been deleted [21:20] LtNOWIS: So I guess "And nobody has the right to judge a soldier from the warmth

and safety of their armchair." doesn't fly? [21:20] Aiddat: Oh, I guess I missed it. [21:20] JackNebulax: I agree that the quotes should be about Star Wars and only

Star Wars. [21:20] Gorblax: That would be a taboo QOTD, NOWIS. [21:20] *** Master76 has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [21:21] Aiddat: Oh the subcategory. Sorry, I wasn't in the in-universe category. [21:21] SillyDan: that quote is OK because it adds context: "which is why I feel it's my

duty to portray soldiers honestly and accurately in fiction." [21:21] LtNOWIS: we're not talking about QOTD yet. [21:21] *** Master76 has joined #wookieepedia. [21:21] Gorblax: After all, this is a Star Wars Wiki. Let's not lose sight of that. [21:21] NKSCF: what happened, JM? [21:21] Master76: comp problems [21:21] Aiddat: Yeah. SW-related quotes would be good. [21:21] LtNOWIS: but, it's a Traviss page, and Traviss is all about soldiers. [21:21] NKSCF: feel your pain [21:21] Master76: yup [21:21] LtNOWIS: and how she writes them [21:21] Redemption: The bye bye Traviss [21:21] Redemption: *Ten [21:21] Redemption: **Then [21:22] Gorblax: But, Dan, that talks more about the authorative process than the

Universe itself, which doesn't fly. [21:22] Redemption: Until she says something actually connected to SW, keep her out [21:22] LtNOWIS: (Link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Quote:Karen_Traviss)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Quote:Karen_Traviss [21:22] SillyDan: it's about her Star Wars writing [21:22] SillyDan: and therefore kosher [21:22] JackNebulax: Which is Star Wars-related. [21:23] Gorblax: Writing quotes should be allowed on the quote page, but not the QOTD. [21:23] Gorblax: It's not significant enough. [21:23] Redemption: But quotes like this one: [21:23] Redemption: My tie-ins are aimed at an adult audience, but they still have to be

suitable for young adult readers, so I couldn’t fall back on my usual soldierly dialogue

of profanity. But I maintained a lot of solid science, and dealt with issues like rape,

atrocities, shooting prisoners, and all the other ugly areas of war." [21:23] Redemption: Doesn't belong. [21:23] LtNOWIS: I added that one... [21:23] DarthOblivion: Nope. [21:23] Gorblax: Agreed. [21:24] JackNebulax: Ditto. [21:24] Aiddat: Hmm... well it's kinda related to Republic Commando: HC [21:24] SillyDan: what tie-ins do you think she's talking about? [21:24] LtNOWIS: or, I found it at least. [21:24] NKSCF: ditto (x3) :p [21:24] Redemption: It's too vague,. [21:24] LtNOWIS: Yeah, it's directly related to her philosophy of writing SW novels. [21:24] Gorblax: But not tied cosely enough, Aiddat. [21:25] Gorblax: But the page is not about philosophy. It's about Star Wars. [21:25] JackNebulax: Exactly. [21:25] LtNOWIS: It's about a lady who writes SW books. The quote is about how she

writes SW books. [21:25] Redemption: Its like the cat and coffee, you may have spilled it on her while

you were writing Star Wars, doesn't make it connected [21:25] DarthOblivion: Okay if she is talking about the contents of the book. [21:25] NKSCF: yes [21:25] SillyDan: she is, though [21:25] Gorblax: Hold on- we seem to be arguing about agreeing. What, exactly, is the

disputed issue! [21:25] Aiddat: Okay. [21:25] Gorblax: ? [21:25] Aiddat: lol [21:26] DarthOblivion: She's talking about her writing not the story. [21:26] SillyDan: the issue: shall we make a CT thread page on real-world quote

policies? [21:26] LtNOWIS: It's at least as relevant as the soldiers one. [21:26] Gorblax: All in favor? [21:26] DarthOblivion: Here [21:26] Aiddat: Aye. [21:26] LtNOWIS: She's talking about her tie-in writings; she only writes tie-ins for

SW. [21:26] NKSCF: yep [21:26] LtNOWIS: ok [21:26] Master76: ye [21:26] JackNebulax: I. [21:26] Gorblax: I, [21:26] Gorblax: All opposed? [21:26] SillyDan: ok, someone make the CT track thread [21:26] Gorblax: Then, it's settled. [21:26] Gorblax: Issue closed. [21:26] LtNOWIS: I shouldn't start it, I'm a pro-Traviss partisan. [21:27] SillyDan: and the discussion goes there. [21:27] DarthOblivion: Finally [21:27] SillyDan: fine, I'll start it [21:27] Gorblax: Seriously, you people have to take a step back. [21:27] SillyDan: next topic: # Go over how we deal with the huge backlog of quotes of

the day, specifically get a policy for clearing it out. Kuralyov 14:44, 12 August 2006

(UTC) [21:27] *** RoronCorobb has joined #wookieepedia. [21:28] SillyDan: coupled with: Also regarding QOTD, setting up some rules in regards to

which quotes to allow (i.e. Do we still want to allow Wookieepedian quotes and if so,

can they nominate their own, etc.) StarNeptuneTalk to me! 15:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC) [21:28] LtNOWIS: I'm gonna go away for awhile, eating my 2nd dinner [21:28] Aiddat: Didn't Grievous kill you!? Heh, welcome. [21:28] Aiddat: And by Lt [21:28] Aiddat: bye^ [21:28] NKSCF: gb [21:28] JackNebulax: Bye. [21:28] DarthOblivion: bye [21:28] RoronCorobb: bye [21:28] Gorblax: Backlog meaning the amount of potential QOTDs in the nomination page? [21:29] SillyDan: yes [21:29] RoronCorobb: i dont think we should allow wookieepedians to nominate their own

quotes [21:29] DarthOblivion: Way too many. [21:29] Gorblax: I disagree. [21:29] Redemption: Definitly. [21:29] SillyDan: only thing I wanted to say on this is vote against any wookieepedian

quotes on the front page [21:29] NKSCF: How's about only thirty at a time, both Wookieequotes and in-universe? [21:29] SillyDan: it's just vanity [21:29] RoronCorobb: true [21:29] Gorblax: Wait, hold on. [21:29] Gorblax: I agree. [21:29] Aiddat: I agree, Roron and SD. [21:29] Gorblax: Changed my mind. [21:30] RoronCorobb: a quote should have to truely represent Star Wars [21:30] JackNebulax: Agreed. [21:30] RoronCorobb: like i am your father, thats a classic [21:30] Gorblax: There should be an addtional restriction, NKSCF. [21:30] Redemption: But a quote isn't something someone made up just so it can be "Quote

of the day [21:30] DarthOblivion: Sounds goo. [21:30] NKSCF: Such as? [21:30] Aiddat: What about Wookieepedia? Like the beating a rancor with 20 Gamorreans

one? [21:30] RoronCorobb: not some random quote some guy put on a talk page [21:30] Gorblax: Only 30 at a time, and when a potential quote gets a month old, it gets

removed. [21:30] NKSCF: Sounds good [21:31] RoronCorobb: yep [21:31] Redemption: Which means dates need to be put ont the quote nominations [21:31] JackNebulax: Yeah, that would help. [21:31] Gorblax: Which will be a welcomed standard, Redemption. [21:31] SillyDan: well, votes will have dates on the signatures [21:31] SillyDan: or should, anyway [21:31] JackNebulax: True, but having a start and end date would be helpful. [21:31] Gorblax: I say, clear the database and start over with the new obligatory time

stamps. [21:31] Aiddat: Well I say Wookieepedian quotes are allowed, even ones about

Wookieepedia itself, and other SW websites. [21:31] Redemption: But some quotes go without ANY nominations [21:32] Gorblax: I totally disagree, Aiddat. [21:32] NKSCF: We need to inform people that they can vote for ones they nominate [21:32] Aiddat: But no nominating your own quotes and no quotes created just for the

vain purpose of being QOTD. [21:32] Gorblax: This wiki should focus more on the universe than self-reference. [21:32] RoronCorobb: good idea [21:32] Aiddat: Hmm... [21:32] Gorblax: The latter is just vanity. [21:32] RoronCorobb: yeah [21:33] Gorblax: Counterpoint, Aiddat? [21:33] Aiddat: Uh. [21:33] Aiddat: Well, I just said my opinion, didn't I? [21:33] LtNOWIS: back [21:33] RoronCorobb: i also think users should get banned if a person checks out their

contribs list and all they find is a bunch of edits on their userpage [21:34] Aiddat: WB [21:34] JackNebulax: No, that's too harsh. [21:34] Aiddat: Yeah. [21:34] Gorblax: I disagree, Roron. [21:34] NKSCF: yeah [21:34] Aiddat: Me too. (I disagree) [21:34] Gorblax: There are people here who shouldn't be trusted with making pages, but

can be with edits. [21:34] NKSCF: Disagree, my bad [21:35] RoronCorobb: well at leest they should be warned to start doing something cause

you have a ton of websites for that [21:35] Gorblax: I, myself, admit to all my contributions being edits. There are so many

standards coming with making your own page that I'm afraid to do something

controversial. [21:35] JackNebulax: What are we going to say? We can't threaten them. [21:35] JackNebulax: I mean threatening to ban them. [21:36] Gorblax: Why should there be any disciplinary action? [21:36] JackNebulax: I better be going now. [21:36] RoronCorobb: we could tell them that they should start contributing something

useful and we could give them a link to the fanon wiki [21:36] Gorblax: It shouldn't be discouraged. What harm does it cause? [21:36] Aiddat: By Jack [21:36] NKSCF: cya [21:36] *** JackNebulax has left #wookieepedia. [21:36] RoronCorobb: bye [21:36] Aiddat: Bye^ again! [21:37] LtNOWIS: Wait, Roron, do you mean only editing their User pages, and not making

any other contributions? [21:37] Aiddat: I like customized userpages. [21:37] Gorblax: Userpages- that's a concept I'm COMPLETELY against. [21:37] Redemption: But if that's all your contributing, then your like wasted space [21:37] RoronCorobb: like peeple that all they do is flood recent changes with like 50

edits to their userpage [21:37] Gorblax: But so many people support it, so I'm not going to fight. [21:37] NKSCF: If that's all you are doing, refer that person to Myspace [21:38] RoronCorobb: totally [21:38] RoronCorobb: see my point [21:38] RoronCorobb: ? [21:38] NKSCF: that's what it's for, not here [21:38] Aiddat: Well, you should tell them to start contributing and customize their

pages later. [21:38] LtNOWIS: yeah, I think we agreed on that earlier. [21:38] Gorblax: Well, in that case, Roron, I agree. [21:38] NKSCF: Sorry, that was a little harsh [21:38] LtNOWIS: Any admins still here? [21:38] RoronCorobb: dont think so [21:39] NKSCF: SillyDan's gone? [21:39] SillyDan: We came up with a userpage policy earlier tonight [21:39] DarthOblivion: Most people don't spend a lot of time looking at others'

userpages anyway. [21:39] Gorblax: Apparently not. [21:39] Aiddat: Let's see... Star said she's away and SD and JM just aren't responding. [21:39] RoronCorobb: i think we should honestly have more admins [21:39] SillyDan: I'm right here! [21:39] SillyDan: hello [21:39] Aiddat: Heh, I look at it sometimes. [21:39] NKSCF: 16 not enough for you? [21:39] SillyDan: anyway: we came up with the userpage policy already [21:39] DarthOblivion: What? [21:39] SillyDan: no one is getting banned for only having user space edits [21:40] SillyDan: you missed it [21:40] SillyDan: it was earlier this evening [21:40] DarthOblivion: Yeah [21:40] RoronCorobb: we just need more to deal with stuff only one admin is taking care

of [21:40] Gorblax: If I may go off-topic for a moment: Does Wookieepedia have an IRC

channel to talk about the Star Wars Universe rather than the wiki? [21:40] SillyDan: no [21:40] Master76: Sorry I was gone for a moment, what I miss?? [21:40] Master76: I was editing stuff [21:40] NKSCF: nothing really [21:40] Master76: ok [21:40] Aiddat: But we should remind them to - scroll up, M76 :P - [21:40] Gorblax: Well, seeing how it's a common interest, Dan, it probably should. [21:40] Master76: k [21:40] Aiddat: We should remind them to make some real edits, but not threaten/punish

them. [21:41] NKSCF: yes [21:41] SillyDan: you want to start a channel, be my guest [21:41] Master76: yes [21:41] Gorblax: Would there be any interest in starting that up? [21:41] RoronCorobb: we need more peeple like skion who know how to make bots and

complicated stuff like that [21:41] Gorblax: I can make a channel on mIRC, I guess. [21:41] NKSCF: JM: You forgot to bold :p [21:41] Aiddat: I had an idea before, that reminds me. [21:41] SillyDan: I'm sure there are other IRC channels for Star Wars already [21:41] *** Gabe_Benson has joined #wookieepedia. [21:41] DarthOblivion: Shouldn't be Wookieepedians if they don't contribute. [21:41] NKSCF: Hey [21:41] SillyDan: people are allowed to lurk [21:41] RoronCorobb: yeah [21:41] Gorblax: I agree with that, Dan. [21:42] Aiddat: There should be a way to hide forum edits in recent changes. That way

you can have a casual talk forum. [21:42] *** Gabe_Benson is now known as Gabe_Alkorda. [21:42] Master76: bold? [21:42] RoronCorobb: wookieepedia is for everyone to enjoy [21:42] NKSCF: Your page you created [21:42] Master76: oh [21:42] Master76: silly me [21:42] *** Gabe_Alkorda has signed off IRC (Client Quit). [21:42] SillyDan: ok, we seem to have lost the thread [21:42] Gorblax: Ooh, gotta go. [21:42] Gorblax: See you. [21:42] Master76: cya [21:42] RoronCorobb: i noticd that [21:42] NKSCF: cya [21:42] Aiddat: And nobody'd get annoyed at a silly conversation clogging recent changes

instead of encyclopediac edits. [21:42] RoronCorobb: bye [21:42] DarthOblivion: see ya [21:42] Aiddat: Cya Gorb [21:43] Gorblax: When is the next mofference? [21:43] SillyDan: We don'y know [21:43] RoronCorobb: idk [21:43] LtNOWIS: not scheduled yet [21:43] Gorblax: Alright, then. [21:43] *** Gorblax has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [21:43] SillyDan: do we want to carry the QOTD discussion over to a CT thread?

Specifically, the length of time quotes are allowed to spend in the nomination queue [21:44] SillyDan: and if we're allowing wookieepedian quotes [21:44] NKSCF: A month [21:44] Aiddat: A CT thread sounds good to me. [21:44] Aiddat: Didn't we already all agree on that ^ ? [21:44] RoronCorobb: i think we should make it QOTM [21:44] NKSCF: ? [21:44] RoronCorobb: wuote of the month [21:44] RoronCorobb: quote [21:45] NKSCF: I knew that, but month? [21:45] RoronCorobb: yeah [21:45] SillyDan: of the week, maybe? [21:45] LtNOWIS: maybe [21:45] RoronCorobb: or a week if thats how u and everyone else would like it [21:45] NKSCF: Sounds better than month [21:45] nex|vdr: week i think [21:45] Master76: week's good [21:46] DarthOblivion: like the featured article [21:46] Aiddat: If it's a QOTD, it should have a smaller time on the voting page. A week

sounds good to me. [21:46] SillyDan: So, three questions: weekly rather than daily, allow or disallow

wookieepedian quotes, and how long to keep old quotes in the nomination list? [21:47] NKSCF: 1:week [21:47] RoronCorobb: disallow wookieepedian quotes [21:47] DarthOblivion: I agree [21:47] NKSCF: 2:Keep, 3:Month [21:47] Aiddat: Hmm. Daily quote sounds good to me if we can keep up. [21:47] Jaymach: hmm...sorry I had to disappear for quite a while :) [21:47] SillyDan: as we've lost admins, and I'm starting on that realworld Wookieequote

thread, shall we declare this meeting over, and that the QOTD discussion to CT? [21:47] Aiddat: Keep them on the list for a week, and allow Wkpedian quotes. [21:47] NKSCF: Yes [21:48] SillyDan: Jaymach: objections? [21:48] Aiddat: Okay. Moffrence ajourned? [21:48] Jaymach: objections to ending it? [21:48] RoronCorobb: AND COULD SOMEBODY PLEASE STOP ALL THE HK-47 QUOTES! there getting

really annoying [21:48] SillyDan: yes [21:48] NKSCF: HK is funny!!!! [21:48] Jaymach: nah I have no objections [21:48] Master76: but their funny :P [21:48] * SillyDan bangs his space gavel