Talk:Providence-class carrier/destroyer

Is there any source for the stats of a regular Providence-class carrier/destroyer? All of these stats come from the Invisible Hand, which is supposed to be a heavily-modified ship. JimRaynor55 08:16, 21 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Number at the battle of Coruscant
Why do people keep changing it? Are there different sources as to the number that fought there? Kuralyov 23:41, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * That was in the Clone Wars mirco-series. There is no proof that there was thirty-forty Providences at the battle. That's why I put the Behind the Scenes section in. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 19:14, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, here's the reasons why there WERE NOT thirty to forty Providences at the battle. First of all: Why is ONLY ONE seen in the movie? Twenty-nine to thirty-nine cruisers of this class could not have all been destroyed prior to the battle seen in the movie. Second of all, why would the Confederacy send their first wave with only those ships? Why would they waste them? Therefore, there is no proof that there were thirty-forty Providences at the battle. Just because you saw it in the mirco-series DOES NOT mean that that is the truth. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 18:46, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, we never saw the full extent of the battle in the movie or the tv series, so there's room for there being more either off-screen in the movie, or destroyed/retreating towards the end. Battlefront II also shows many Providences alongside other Confederacy ships in the background. Either way, I put the speculation under BTS, with all available facts. :) VT-16 19:38, 27 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the reason why we see only Providences in the Clone Wars microseries: It's all animated. Why make an entire fleet of different ships when you can only use one model, the model that is the most important Separatist warship in the battle. Battlefront II reason: Almost the same for the mircoseries reason. Why bother putting all of the Separatist cruisers into the game to be boarded? Well, for one thing, no one has ever seen the inside of any other CIS cruiser. Those are the only reasons those two sources made the Separatist invasion fleet mainly Providences. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:13, 27 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * True, but the BFII game also has two other models freatured besides the Providences, as well as Acclamator or Acclamator-IIs on the Republic side. I don't see how several examples of visual evidence can be discarded due to the argument "It's cheaper to do less models". What's proposed in the BTS section seems reasonable enough based on the visuals. :) VT-16 12:20, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but until an actual hard-core source shows itself, it's only in the "Behind the Scenes" section. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 20:18, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Now we have at least one other named Providence-class destroyer in the battle, the Prosperous which was conquered by Saasee-Tiin in SW:CW. Not exactly "dozens" but it's still more than one. ;P VT-16 13:48, 9 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe there were more than the Invisible Hand. I don't know. Up until the naming of the Prosperous, it was doubtful, but now it's possible. Admiral J. Nebulax 14:49, 9 Dec 2005 (UTC)


 * In the Revenge of the Sith Novel it mentioned when Anakin and Obi-Wan were looking for the Invisible Hand Obi-Wan said there are dozens of cruisers. Anakin then said it is the one crawling with Vulture Droids.User:Lucky
 * He was probably referring to all of the Recusant-class light destroyers and Munificent-class star frigates. Plus, we know of at least one other Providence. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 20:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Providence-class carrier/destroyer is the only CIS Capital Ship classified as a cruiser and Anakin would probably not get confused about the ships class and it the only class of capital ship with internal hangers to dock with besides a Trade Federation Battleship witch is not the class of the Invisible Hand and the reason they did not put a lot of Providence-class carrier/destroyer is not to confuse the people watching same they didn't put in the Dreadnaught and Carrack Cruisers User:Lucky (talk)
 * Okay, slow down. They could have very well referred to all of the other CIS captial ships as cruisers. Obi-Wan's probably not going to say that there are dozens of cruisers, destroyers, and frigates when he could sum it all up and say "cruisers". Plus, we only know of two Providences at the battle, and you can clearly see in the movie that the majority are all Recusants and Munificents. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 12:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess that should cover it.User:Lucky (talk)
 * Exactly. We only know of four Providences, and we only know that two of them were at Coruscant. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 18:24, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There's at least 5 at Boz Pity, and that's just the one panel I counted. Yrfeloran 19:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, nine total Providences so far, two of which were at the Second Battle of Coruscant and five of which were at the Battle of Boz Pity. I might just make a user subpage to account for all of this... Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there's some overlap, One of them's almost certainly the Hand, given both Grievous and Dooku were there. Yrfeloran 15:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there is, too, but there's no source for it. So, there's around nine Providences so far. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 15:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Three of the Providences are modified with longer hangars, so they aren't exactly the same type anymore. I'm also a bit hesitant about cutting out their numbers, just because most of them were seen in the SW:CW cartoon. The battle of Coruscant went on for a long time and numerous ships fell into the atmosphere, killing millions, so I see no reason to cut them out simply because we only see one intact at the end. VT-16 20:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Still, I doubt that out of all of the Providences that might have been there, only one survived to be seen during the movie. There's no way only one remained out of thousands. This was most likely a mistake made by those who made the series. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 20:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That is true. Judging from their over-use of some units (AT-RTs, the Providences etc.) the CW team probably had access to only a few concepts, which they could use to "preview" what would be used in the film (like Boba Fett and Admiral Ackbar, back in the day). I agree with the oversaturation of Providences in this battle, but I don't think it should be used for all the other occurances. (There's several other battles where multiple Providences are seen in the series). VT-16 22:56, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. That's the thing. There are no Munificents or Recusants anywhere to be seen, but there are a hell of a lot of Providences. It doesn't add up. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 00:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the big zoom-in shot could always be explained with having all the cylinder-shaped blobs be a mix of warships, since we only see a small part of the early battle clearly, after zooming in on Saasee-Tiin's ship and surrounding area. VT-16 01:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Still, there's only Providences as far as I can tell. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 02:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, we can't just pick and choose what visuals we believe. If taken at face value, how about having the battle start out with a massive assault by Providences, with all the other ship-types being further away from the main action? (At least the portion of which we see.) As the battle goes on for hours, they might supplant damaged or destroyed Providences until we reach the point of ROTS, where only one can be discerned clearly. (Since there was a lot going on, we don't know if some of the faraway ships were Providences or not.) VT-16 07:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because we don't see them on screen does not mean they aren't there - look at Return of the Jedi, for example - it's established that there were over forty Imperial Star Destroyers, and over twenty Mon Cal Cruisers... yet we don't see anything near forty ISDs, or anything close to 20 Mon Cal Cruisers. Far less, in fact. The battlefield in space is very, very large - too large for the camera to fit. So just because we don't see them, does not mean they aren't there :P --Danik Kreldin 07:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * However, the Battle of Endor situation is different. Those numbers are sourced, right? The point is, I extremely doubt that Munificents and Recusants were shown in the cartoon. Why? There's no source. And while the battle did last for a while, I doubt that thousands of Providences were reduced to the one shown in the movie. This is what I believe. I might not be right, but from what I've seen, what I'm saying seems logical, at least to me. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, look at it from a strategic point of view - if you were General Grevious, mastermind behind the Confederate war effort, would you send only one Providence-class carrier to the most heavily defended planet in the Republic - Coruscant itself? :P --Danik Kreldin 21:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * If I were Grievous, I wouldn't send thousands of Providences in the first wave and have light destroyers and frigates come in later. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There must have been more ships on the other side of the planet or deeper in space you need Lucrehulk-class battleships to drop the C-9979 landing craft seen desending to Coruscant. User:Lucky
 * Uh, there were plenty of Lucrehulks seen in the movie. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about in the micro series. User:Lucky
 * I know, but we were discussing Providences, not Lucrehulks, anyway. But I understand your point. Yet another way the mirco-series screws something up. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 22:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Although this doesn't say what came first, the ROTS:ICS says that due to millions of CIS vessels being locked in battle in the Outer Rim Sieges, Grievous could only afford to amass a few dozen battleships supported by thousands of destroyers and frigates. Since space is big, we shouldn't expect to be able to see the entire incoming CIS fleet. All those Providences we see in SW:CW, would only be part of the escort, diverting Republic fire to themselves, while the battleships send away their landing craft. VT-16 15:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But it doesn't specify on what type of battleships, though. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I like SWBF2, in fact I came here to pick a name for the Providence to put in my maps description, but I detest it when people try and use it as canon. When you think about it, its clear that only the 501st story was even intended to somewhat canonical. Just because the Pandemic level designers decided to set the 256x256 providence icons as the sky ships in the .sky file, doesn't mean that anyone there intended it to be canon that several Providences were circling harmlessly around two Venators and a two Providences firing .tga's at each other! And for crying out loud, the Rebels and Imperials never fought a full scale battle over holographic flags on Mustafar!

Also, I believe the Recusant was the main source of Sep firepower over Coruscant.

As for the mini series, good luck with Retconning that, lol
 * Battlefront II gameplay isn't canon, so there's no problem. And please don't restart old topics. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Deck Cannons
In ROTS, the Invisible Hand fires deck cannon at a venator. The ROTS:ICS states that these are ion cannons, but the visual dictionary it indicates that there are mass drivers under the ion cannons. are they part of the ion cannon or a different weapon all together. QX100 14:09, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the Episode III Visual Dictionary shows that there is a small ion cannon attach to the larger cannon. Cmdr. J. Nebulax 23:42, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * If you go over the image in the ROTS ICS carefully, you see that the ion cannons it refers to are seperate from the mass drivers. Suppossedly some new editor chopped the manuscript all to heck; any statements related to the mass drivers probably got cut. A pity.--Lowkey
 * Well, when it comes to mistakes like that, we cannot use it. But at least the Visual Dictionary provide a much better source. Admiral J. Nebulax 14:21, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Dac 5?
Any source for this supposed ship? Or is this just another rpg fanon creation posted by an anon with horrible grammar? JimRaynor55 07:43, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks suss. I've tagged it. QuentinGeorge 07:48, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * There's no source for "Dac 5", and therefore that page should automatically be deleted. Admiral J. Nebulax 22:08, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Move
This article should be moved to "Providence-class carrier/destroyer." It's only a small change, but that's the way it's written in all the official sources. JimRaynor55 18:41, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Funny, I've always had it as "Providence-class carrier/destroyer" in the articles. Admiral J. Nebulax 20:37, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Could the Mon Calamari ship plans that were stolen have helped build these?
Source: Republic HoloNet News Core Edition 15:01:03

Only the CIS modified them.--Rune Haako 22:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I read somewhere that after the plans were stolen, the Quarren made changes and produced the Providences. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Providence fleet in SW:Clone Wars
I noticed the planet on which the Providence-fleet is closing in in Clone Wars is pretty similiar to Fondor. Does anyone know if it is Fondor or not ? thx in advance
 * Someone suggested it was Orto, but it was never stated what planet it was. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Relation to the Rendilli Dreadnaught or Shipbuilding era of the time?
I agree with one of the posts that the ship probably has relations to Mon Calamari cruiser, but what about the Rendilli Dreadnaught cruiser. The first time I saw Episode III I thought they looked similar to them, after all the Dreadnaught did exist during the Clone Wars. Could the ships be related, or could they be of a shipbuilding design era of the time. Both the Providence and the Dreadnaught Cruiser have an extended upper portion of their bow, with a round section protuding underneath the bow. They also both have a long middle-hull section. Does anyone know about this?
 * I doubt that. During the Clone Wars, the CIS stole Mon Calamari cruiser plans, which they most likely modified to become Providences. Also, the fact that the Quarren built these ships makes me think they were just related to Mon Calamari cruisers, not Dreadnaughts. Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I have another question, do all the Providence ships have spires which connect to an observation room, or is this for flagships, is the observation room used for other purposes?
 * Well, they all have the spires with observation rooms, but I don't know if there are other purposes for it. Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The only reason I ask is because the room appears to be one of Palpatine's taste, i.e. the large throne chair with an overhead extension. Of course, it could be assumed that all the Providence ships have these observation rooms for their leader Count Dooku much like all major Imperial capital ships have a throne room aboard for Emperor Palpatine.
 * Well, I think Episode III Incredible Cross-Sections had something about the Wizard's Tower. Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The Rendili Dreadnaught has no relaition to the Providence-class. They are built by completely different companies on different sides.  In addition, as of the Clone Wars the Rendili Dreadnaught is already several decades old, having been used in the Katana Fleet in 46 BBY, more than twenty years earlier.  The Providence is a design from the Trade Federation and the Quarren.--Sharkey 00:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Having just re-checked HoloNet News, I can also safely conclude that the Providence-class is not a stolen Mon Calamari design. The date for the issue detailing the steal is 15:01:03, meaning 21 months after the Battle of Geonosis.  We know based on the databank and ROTS Visual Dictionary that the Invisible Hand was built before the onset of the Clone Wars, to be used by Nute Gunray, and then handed over to Grievous when he took command of the droid armies.  By 21 months ABG, the Invisible Hand has already been serving the CIS Navy for some time, and thus it could not have been a stolen Mon Calamari design, but instead a purely Trade Federation  and Quarren design.--Sharkey 00:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That's correct. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's been a while, but I read this and wondered which design it might have been. Looking at the Munificent-class's history, the IGBC seem to have had those before the CW, so it can't be it. That leaves the Recusant-class, which makes sense, as they were mass-produced during the CW and they're directly taken from old Mon Cal cruiser concept art from ROTJ. I think that's the match. VT-16 10:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It sounds like a match. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:56, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Carrier/destroyer; Isn't this an Oxymoron?
Seriously. How could this be a Destroyer/Carrier. Destroyers are escort ships incapable of independent operation, originally built for regular escort duties, but later on are used to escort Carriers. Carriers are capital ships with aircraft that are, I think, capable of independent operation. I know Curtis Saxton said so, but, he doesn't actually know everything about Star Wars. So, IMHO, this would be either Dreadnought/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser and Dreadnought. NeoExelor 21:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No. "Carrier/destroyer" is canon, and Curtis Saxton speaks for canon. You don't. Disputing canon will not get you anywhere. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * But that is an oxymoron. I don't care if it's the words of Jesus Christ, if it doesn't make sense, why not argue it? &mdash;Neo M. Exelor (New Republic Holonet)[[Image:NewRepublic.png |20px]]