Talk:Palpatine/Legends

Warning: Information overload!
There's too much info in this article! Waaaay too many tangents have been added, references to things that do not directly relate to Palpatine/Sidious, things that he only ever had marginal, if any, contact with, and it's all so flowery and overly-hyped. Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is way too much nonessential info crammed into this article, which has inflated it waaaaay past what it should be. I mean, do we really need all the stuff we have about Chandrilla's other Senator and the ballyhoo that surrounded the dissolving of the Imperial Senate?--Goodwood 21:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If it's relevant to Palpatine or Palpatine's actions, then yes. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * True to a point, but like I said, a lot of the article is pure fluff that is in desperate need of a trim.--Goodwood 21:45, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree, as I always have and always will when it comes to making major changes to this article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Something tells me that it wasn't just because of the lack of sourcing (per new guidelines) that saw this article stripped of its FA status. If you catch my drift, Jacky.--Goodwood 21:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There's two things you need to know: 1) There is no need for a cleanup tag. If you feel it needs to be trimmed, then by all means try to trim it. But a cleanup tag is not necessary under the circumstances. 2) In all likelihood, I might revert some of your changes if you don't discuss them first. It'd be best to discuss what you wanted "trimmed" here before you edit the article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 22:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think I see what you're saying (well, not really). You're claiming ownership of this page and that anything anyone does to it must meet with your express written consent, eh? That's complete and utter bollocks and you know it - no one "owns" an article, as it says right below the edit window. Sorry, but your excuse is as stupid as a certain person "sparing" you against being tagged with a 3RR violation.--Goodwood 22:48, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That comment, "I might revert some of your changes if you don't discuss them first," strikes me as highly inappropriate. Threatening to revert any changes made to articles that you seem to think belong to you, is if not a violation of our policies, then very close to it. Other users have merit, and I do not understand why you cannot accept this. I advise you develop a little faith in others; it'll do you a world of good. We're not bad people; we're not out to ruin you or your work. - Graestan  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( This party's over ) 22:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean for that comment to be taken negatively. I didn't intend it to sound like I was claiming ownership of the article; I was merely trying to express that I wanted to know what Goodwood had in mind before major changes were made. As I said above, I'm always opposed to major changes to this article, and I was actually hoping that Goodwood, others, and myself could discuss this before anything major was made. I apologize, but I still wish for this to be discussed before this "trimming" of the article starts. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to express my personal opposition to the trimming. The nature of this particular wiki, FMHO, tends to inclusionism, which would eventually lead to some entries being extensive, because those particular articles deal with subjects that are repeatedly used by the authors of the canon. This particular article includes information on the emperor's closests associates, for instance. It would not be reasonable to list all of his subordinates (or all the species representatives under Human), but the way this article touches most of the aspects of his life and works is, again FMHPOV, completely adequate, specially in this wiki. Palpatine's article in Wikipedia is obviously shorter, but this wiki is specifically a work on Star Wars. Similarly, Spanish author Rosalía de Castro is dealed in more detail in Spanish wiki than in wikipedia. I consider that the supposed problem Goodwood was pinpointing is not due to the article itself, but to the great amount of appearances of this particular character. With so many authors giving their own view of the fictional character, and creating more schemes and details on his acts (such as "the ballyhoo that surrounded the [his] dissolving of the Imperial Senate", which I consider one of his master moves, centralizing the political power of the galaxy in himself as he wanted to centralize the military power with the DS, and causing the predicted response), obviously the ogre develops more and more layers. This is not a description of all his appearances, but of all of his relevant moves - the question is what is revelant. As for myself, I'm saving the current state of the article in my hard drive, just in case it loses anything I consider worthy. - Skippy Farlstendoiro 12:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The article still needs massive cleanup. Unsourced text boxes that should be quotes, incompleteness, prose issues, formatting issues, the whole gamut. We must clean up this article!--Goodwood 01:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose I could put my workbench to use starting with this article... I'll have to start working on it later, though. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Palpatine and sidious are different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no proof that thet are the same!! The new essential guide to characters, a canon source, says that they are different!!

That is Yoda versus Palpatine from Episode III. And it clearly states Yoda vs. Sidious. If you haven't seen Episode III yet, you may want to rethink posting anything on this site as you would be highly uninformed... Livingston 18:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummm, did you see Star Wars Episode III? I couldn't believe people were naive enough to actually think they were different before Episode III came out, but to think so after it came out, you have to be off your rocker. Besides everything in Episode III proving that they are the same, check out the name on this unleshed box:
 * I have one thing to say to the person who doesn't realize that Palpatine and Sidious are the same: ... &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 19:18, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't shout...I mean, seriously, how could you not tell when Nute Gunrey contacted Darth Sidious on the Droid Control ship? My jaw dropped several meters when I saw Sidious. -- SFH 20:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

You assume that palpatine and sidious are the same because palpatine has a mastery of the dark side of the force and sidious is a sith lord. Give me proof not assumptions.


 * cough cough episode 3 cough cough!Meesa yoda 23:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)!
 * Anon, let me give you some advice: Stop posting, and go watch Revenge of the Sith. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The Databank entries for Darth Sidious and Palpatine explicitly state that they are one and the same. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 00:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty certain this guy is just joking around. You can't be that stupid. --24.185.48.239 05:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd be surprised about some of the people we get around here. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

10,000-year rule source
Moving back to standard talk page etiquette with a more serious tone than the previous charming declaration of maturity ( Palpatine and sidious are different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ), I have a question: What is the source of the information about Palpatine intending to rule the Empire himself for 10,000 years? --Master Starkeiller 17:55, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Revenge of the Sith. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 18:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * From the insider article Order 66: Destroy All Jedi.  Chack Jadson  Talk 20:11, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * See Declaration of a New Order. -LtNOWIS 23:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I mean apart from the "I assure you will last for ten thousand years" part in the declaration speech, what source states that he himself intended to rule all these years? --Master Starkeiller 08:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I doubt Palpatine would be willing to let someone take over for him before those 10,000 years were over. After all, Palpatine did have a ton of clones on Byss that his spirit could have inhabited if his present body failed him. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 14:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But isn't there a source that explicitly states Palpatine would rule for 10,000 years and then give the Empire over to a successor? Am I mistaken here? I may have confused a fan assumption for an official source, or maybe I have confused this with Dark Empire I, where it is stated that Palpatine did not intend to die. Anyway, is there anything else on the subject apart from that speech?--Master Starkeiller 15:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * For some reason, I think the version in the RotS novel says Palpatine intended to rule the Empire for 10,000 years&mdash;though I still think that's what he intended in the movie version of the speech. Can anyone confirm/deny this? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 20:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I never gave the "ten thousand" year thing any serious credence; to me, it's no different than Hitler claiming his Reich would last a "thousand" years. Hitler was attempting to connect with the Biblical idea of the Millennial Kingdom, that's all. And to the citizens of a Republic mired in chaos, warfare and instability, Palpatine's words invoked the promise of very-long-term-stability; they'll never have to live through another time like this, they believed. They certainly didn't expect Palpatine to be the one who ruled that whole time; they understood that the position of Emperor was a lifetime appointment, and that presumably, after that, another would succeed him as Emperor, and so on. And as for Palpatine himself, keep in mind that HE HAD NO MEANS TO LIVE THAT LONG YET. That came later. At the time of ROTS he was still just looking around for what Plagueis claimed to have discovered. It wasn't till later that he learned a.) how to transfer his consciousness from body to body and b.) to clone himself that he could ever hope to live that long. The idea that he would, at the time of ROTS, have a realistic intention to rule for ten thousand years himself, is, to me, ludicrous. The book Dark Lord indicates he WANTED to find a way to do it, but not that he had a real hope that he could. But the moment he was able to achieve immortality through his clones, you can damn well be ABSOLUTELY SURE that he would rule himself for the whole ten thousand years, and probably much longer, over an Empire holding away over not just the GFFA, but other galaxies as well. That's my $0.02. Erik Pflueger [[Image:Republican_Emblem.png|20px]] 22:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you sure he didn't have the clones and the knowledge on how to transfer his spirit into them during RotS? &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 00:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a reasonable conclusion to make. The Dark Empire Sourcebook says that Palpatine learned part of that knowledge from a Jedi holocron found in the possession of Master Ashka Boda, who was captured during the Purge, presumably AFTER Order 66, and then brought to the Emperor on Byss (which the online comics indicate was only established after ROTS) by the very first Imperial sentinels. Then, we have Star Wars Gamer 5 saying Palpatine learned another part (probably the last part) of the mystery from ancient Sith spirits on Korriban, and after the spirits assaulted him, his Hand Jeng Droga had to rescue him and get him back to Coruscant for bacta treatment, and that was just after the events of A New Hope (though the article confirms he DID have clones of himself by this time. This is presumably in a very tight time window between ANH and the point when Bevel Lemelisk was brought back from Hefi to be punished for screwing up with the Death Star, because by then, he knew enough to be able to transfer Lemelisk's essence to a clone of him (and he was carrying a holocron at the time, presumably Boda's). So yeah, I'm pretty sure. Erik Pflueger [[Image:Republican_Emblem.png|20px]] 06:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's curious that the Jedi would have known the secret when the Sith didn't. It doesn't seem like the Jedi to transfer their spirit into another body. Thanks, Erik. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, to the Jedi, that knowledge would have been just that: knowledge, arcane and obscure and forbidden and untested, not something they would attempt. In order to try applying it, they'd have to use extremely powerful dark side powers, which is something they wouldn't, and most of them couldn't, do. I don't suppose they even studied the secret. Anyway, since we got sources on Palpatine not being able to achieve immortality by RotS, I can suppose I was mistaken and there is no source stating that Palpatine intended to rule for 10,000 years himself? --Master Starkeiller 12:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My mistake, Order 66: Destroy All Jedi says that he intended to rule for a millennium (Sate Pestage says something like that at least).  Chack Jadson  Talk 00:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that you copy this excerpt from the article here, please? --Master Starkeiller 18:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, after a profile of a bunch of Jedi in a document to Palaptien from Sate Pestage, Sate says, "may your reign last for 1,000 years."  Chack Jadson  Talk 20:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "I trust that Your Majesty is pleased by the professionalism of the Empire's soldiers as evidenced by the thorough eradication of the Jedi rebellion. May your reign last for a thousand years!" Well, that's just Pestage kissing his butt. That's like when Italians toast you and say "Cent'anni" and wish that you live a hundred years. Like I'm actually gonna live a hundred years! I eat mostly junk food and my cholesterol's being held at bay only by medication! So much for THAT wish... I wouldn't bother giving what Pestage said any weight at all. It's purely ceremonial, like referring to a dead guy and saying "May he rest in peace." Forget about it, it's a dead end. Erik Pflueger [[Image:Republican_Emblem.png|20px]] 21:23, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's got nothing to do with Palpatine living forever, it's just a wish/compliment. So, the source I'm looking for actually is Dark Empire. It's the only source that states Palpatine intended to rule the Empire forever (and not for just 10,000 years). I shouldn't have looked this far from the obvious choice! Thanks anyway. --Master Starkeiller 22:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)