Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Rhondi Tremaine


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Rhondi Tremaine

 * Nominated by:--Darth Niffoc 21:47, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nomination comments:Some new Abyss stuff

(1 ACs/0 Users/1 Total)
Support
 * 1)  CC7567  (talk) 21:50, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Object
 * 1) Attack of the Clone
 * 2) * Is this the Maw Irregular Fleet, Maw fleet, or something else entirely that we're talking about here? Please link it properly instead of to redirects.
 * 3) **Addressed
 * 4) * Please link the destruction of Centerpoint Station.
 * 5) **I'm sorry but I couldn't find an article on the destruction of Centerpoint, and the Station is already linked so.....
 * 6) ***If it doesn't have an article, it should. I'm not asking you to create an article for it (though ideally, you should at least create a stub for it), just to link it. That means if you don't create the article, it will remain a redlink.  CC7567  (talk) 06:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 7) ****I'm sure this will make me sound like some half asleep coffeephobic lunatic, but as far as I know there are no redlinks in this article.
 * 8) *****I mean for you to add a link in the article to Battle of Centerpoint Station or Destruction of Centerpoint Station or something.  CC7567  (talk) 16:27, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 9) ******I have done this, but I would like to point out that the Battle of Centerpoint Station isn't the same as its destruction they're about five or ten years apart.....Yeah I'm a geek.
 * 10) *******...........I did write a stub, but somebody must have erased it. I'm sorry but it appears I can't really do this.........
 * 11) ********It would appear that Battle of Centerpoint Station (Second Galactic Civil War) is what you are looking for. Nayayen [[Image:Old Republic military symbol.png|18px]] talk  17:38, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 12) *********"That's it!!"--Charlie Brown Christmas....Hey thanks Nayayen, that would be exactly what I was looking for. Anyway, now this is finally Addressed.
 * 13) * "Rhondi was killed while one of the Sith sliced open a sealed door." Please check this; the sentence should clarify how she died, not what was happening "while" she died.
 * 14) **Technically, if you read the end of the Bio, you see I actually do say how she dies. The Sith slices through the door and pierces Rhondi.  Anyway I rewrote to clarify a little more.
 * 15) * Please somehow combine the first two Bio subsections. They don't balance with the longer third.
 * 16) **Addressed
 * 17) * "had terrible aches to return to their homes": "longings" or something else would be a better word choice here, if I'm understanding the context correctly.
 * 18) **Addressed
 * 19) * "After Luke had gone Beyond Shadows": first, please vary the sentences that start with "after", and second, the "gone Beyond Shadows" is rather awkward wording.
 * 20) **Addressed
 * 21) * "Rhondi rushed to the sealed door and began pounding on it, contrary to the Skywalkers' warnings." How so? You don't state their "warnings", so I can't tell if she acted on the contrary to them or not.
 * 22) **Addressed
 * 23) *"Though it is unknown if they were twins": next time, please do not state what is "unknown" for an IU character or article. I've removed it, but all of your future nominations should not have anything like it.
 * 24) * "Contrary to the Mind Walkers' belief that nothing mattered except the Force, not even death." Please check this sentence; it's choppy, and I can't tell which sentence it's supposed to be linked to.  CC7567  (talk) 02:51, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 25) **Addressed
 * 26) ***You still haven't merged the two sentence clauses, and it's still extremely choppy. Please take note of this; I saw a lot of these errors when I was copyediting. Here's what it should read as: "Eventually, she struck a deal with Ben to save Rolund's life, even though the Mind Walkers believed that nothing mattered except the Force, not even death." I'll leave it up to you to tweak it further if you so wish.  CC7567  (talk) 06:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 27) ****I have changed it to the above sentence. The only reason I had a lot of sentences like that was the last time I did this I was told I had too many run-ons so those errors were only precautions.
 * 28) *****If you're trying to be cautions, please don't do it to the point where you create other problems. Make sure you know what a run-on sentence is; merging them as you did is not a run-on. If you left the two sentences the way they were, they would not have been run-ons, but they would still be grammatically incorrect.  CC7567  (talk) 16:27, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 29) * In the intro, please clarify how she suddenly came to be in a sealed room. It jumps out of nowhere with no explanation.  CC7567  (talk) 06:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 30) **Addressed
 * 31) ***You still need to get in how Rhondi was killed in the intro; it jumps right from her mind-walking to her death, and as far as we know at the point of her death, she's still "Beyond Shadows."  CC7567  (talk) 16:27, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 32) ****Addressed
 * 33) * "To insure their safety": whose safety? The Mind Walkers'? The Skywalkers'?  CC7567  (talk) 16:27, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * 34) **Addressed
 * 35) The Grand Master
 * 36) * I see nothing in the book that indicates that she and Rolund were "almost identical".
 * 37) **I got that from page 170 "An IV?", Rolund asked, his frown mirroring Rhondi's so precisely that it unsettled Ben. He still hadn't established whether they were twins or just regular siblings, but sometimes they seemed as close as Killiks.
 * 38) ***Just because she frowned in the same way as her brother does not mean they were "nearly identical".
 * 39) ****Addressed
 * 40) * Please add that she was born in the Maw colony.
 * 41) **Addressed
 * 42) ***Please check grammar for the two places you added this.
 * 43) ****Addressed
 * 44) *****Better in the bio, but please check the intro again. It says that Rhondi "was a Human female who was born on the Maw colony and a member of the Maw Irregular Fleet in the Maw."
 * 45) ******Addressed
 * 46) * There is nothing in the novel to indicate that the Tremaines were born "between 10 and 25 ABY".
 * 47) **That was my best estimate for a few reasons. It says  Daala established the colony at the end of the warlord era, sometime between 10 and 25 ABY.  And if the Tremaines were going to serve in a highly efficient spy network they had to be at least in their twenties.  Then a decade goes by so they are at least in their thirties by the time they go to Sinkhole station in 42 ABY.  so I figured through logic that they had to be born in this time frame.  But it doesn't actually give us the date in the book, just the logic.  So I will remove this if you want.
 * 48) ***Everything you just said is complete speculation; for example, people don't have to be in their twenties to serve as spies, talented kids could do that, too. Please don't add anything to articles based on "your best estimate"; only facts from the sources. And the only thing the novel says about their age is that they were the youngest Mind Walkers. Seeing as none of the other Mind Walkers are given an exact age, nothing can be determined about their age without speculating on the matter.
 * 49) ****I'm sorry...I'm just one of those people who uses logic way too often for their own good..And I've fixed this.
 * 50) *In the intro: what sealed door?
 * 51) **Addressed
 * 52) ***Now you imply she ran to the door behind which Ben put the detonator, which is incorrect. She ran to a different door.
 * 53) ****Adressed
 * 54) *****You still don't correctly specify whih door. You imply that this was the door behind which Ben trapped Rolund, which is incorrect. Please check again.
 * 55) ******I'm having problems with this whole bit right before her death. The way I understood it while reading was this:Rhondi hears the detonator go off from a different door in Rolund's room, presumably Sith entering that way, then when she bangs on the other, sealed, door the Sith slice through that one.  So am I viewing this all wrong?  Was there just on door(where did the Sith come from?), or was she just trying to run away since she thought Rolund was dead, and was pounding to alert other Mind Walkers to get her out?
 * 56) *******You have it mostly right, here's what happened: Ben has put Rolund in a room, leaving a detonator at the door. Later, the Sith break in, setting off the detonator. In the control room, Rhondi and the Skywalkers hear the explosion, and Rhondi, assuming the worst, rushes to the control room entryway and begins banging on the door. The Sith then begin to slice through the door, and one of their lightsabers impales her head.
 * 57) * Please paraphrase "assignments varying from gathering information to subverting security on vessels for appropriation", "so efficient", "expose them", "deserting en masse", as these are almost the exact wordings used in the novel.
 * 58) **Addressed
 * 59) * Please add context on Mind Walkers for their first mention in the bio.
 * 60) **Addressed
 * 61) ***Still not seeing any context. Please check again.
 * 62) ****I don't really see anything else to say, what exactly are you referring to?
 * 63) *****People who are reading these articles might not know who the Mind Walkers are, so you should supply them with context. (i.e., for Qui-Gon, you might say Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn when introducing him in an article, where "Jedi Master" is the context.) Please give such readers a general idea of who the Mind Walkers are.
 * 64) ******Addressed
 * 65) * "On one of their visits, the siblings learned from Ben that Luke's hydration tube kept falling from his mouth and that Ben was going to put Luke on an IV. When he caught a worried glance between Rhondi and Rolund, Ben realized someone was removing it. Rhondi explained that the Force would sustain Luke, and he didn't need food. When Ben pressed further, Rhondi admitted that they were eating his food only to help him realize he didn't need it, only the Force." This seems to be largely written from Ben's point of view, as opposed to Rhondi's.
 * 66) **Addressed
 * 67) ***Better, but please check grammar, and is the "worried glance" really necessary?
 * 68) ****Addressed, and yes otherwise it's Rhondi and Rolund knew that it wasn't falling out... to me, that with the sentence before it makes it too choppy.
 * 69) *****The "worried glance" is insignificant to the character and the storyline and should be removed; if it makes it choppy, then you should reword the sentence.
 * 70) ******Addressed
 * 71) * IIRC, Rhondi and Rolund stole food from the Jade Shadow to prove to Ben that he didn't need food to survive, not because they were malnourished.
 * 72) **I didn't write that..Addressed
 * 73) ***Okay, but you still need to say why they stole the food.
 * 74) ****I clarify that later in the Bio. so adding it there would be somewhat redundant
 * 75) *****But the way you have it now makes it sound like they would come in and sit down with Ben and eat with him, and that he was okay with it, which wasn't the case at all. Remember, this is from Rhondi's point of view, and she knew that she was stealing it from the beginning, so you should say so from the beginning.
 * 76) ******Addressed
 * 77) * It wasn't really a "deal" in the sense that you seem to imply; Ben forced Rhondi to protect him as they went beyond shadows to ensure that he didn't die there, because, if he did, then Rolund would die. Please correct this.
 * 78) **Addressed hopefully
 * 79) ***Better, but please make it a little less colloquial.
 * 80) ****Addressed
 * 81) * Why did Ben shackle Rhondi with stun cuffs?
 * 82) **Addressed
 * 83) ***Not seeing any changes here.
 * 84) ****Addressed
 * 85) *"Across the lake in the mists, they could see a woman who was trying to draw them to her. Luke decided to talk to the woman, and Rhondi guided the Skywalkers toward the figure, warning them to stay immediately behind her lest they fall into the depths, where they couldn't be saved. Along the way, Rhondi watched as the Skywalkers talked to Anakin Solo, Mara Jade Skywalker, and Jacen Solo. When the three returned to their physical bodies..." Why didn't they continue on their way to see the woman? Why did they decide to return to their bodies?
 * 86) **Addressed
 * 87) ***Much better, but please check grammar.
 * 88) *You say Beyond Shadow, or even "Beyond Shadows" often; in the novel, it is written as beyond shadows, with no quotation marks or capitals. I believe I have fixed these, but be careful of this in the future.
 * 89) *Please add context (just a bit) for Anakin Solo, Mara Jade, and the Lake of Apparitions in the bio.
 * 90) **Addressed
 * 91) ***This is too much, it now breaks up the flow. It would be enough to say they were Jedi, and for Jacen: Jedi-turned-Sith
 * 92) * You have no mention of Seek Ryontarr or Feryl, both of whom were with the Skywalkers and Rhondi beyond shadows, and both of whom interacted with Rhondi. (i.e. Ryontarr was upset that she had made the bargain with Ben)
 * 93) **Addressed
 * 94) ***You haven't added anything about how Ryontarr was upset that Rhondi had promised she'd get Ben back quickly and safely, or any other interactions she had with Seek and Feryl.
 * 95) *The novel doesn't say anything to indicate that Rhondi told the Skywalkers that they had seen Force ghosts. Also, there is some information missing in the article about her talk with the Skywalkers after returning from beyond shadows. Please review this section of the novel and add the missing info.
 * 96) **There was a lot of meaningless conversation in that bit so if I missed something I'll put it in, otherwise addressed
 * 97) ***You've added the necessary info from the conversation, but I'm still seeing several mentions of Force Ghosts. I repeat, the novel doesn't say anything to indicate that Rhondi told the Skywalkers that the people they'd seen in the lake were Force ghosts. Calling them such is speculation.
 * 98) *Why did Rhondi rush to and begin pounding on the door?
 * 99) **Addressed, if not already obvious
 * 100) ***Not seeing any changes, and no, it's not obvious: what did she hope to accomplish by pounding on the door? Also, why did the Skywalkers try and stop her? The way you've phrased it makes it sound like they knew something bad was going to happen to her, which they didn't. Also, how was the detonator set off? (i.e. it didn't just randomly explode)
 * 101) *In the P&t: Ben wasn't going to kill Rolund, just use him as leverage; Rhondi didn't strike a deal with Ben to save Rolund's life. Ben forced her to ensure that he survived beyond shadows by locking Rolund in a room, so that if they stayed beyond shadows too long or if he died beyond shadows then Rolund would also eventually die.
 * 102) **Addressed
 * 103) ***Please explain better, it's rather unclear as is. Also, check grammar/spelling.
 * 104) *Something should be added about her appearance in the P&t.
 * 105) **Do you want her hair color, or some sort of Before and After when going to beyond shadows?
 * 106) ***Her physical appearance; she was described extensively upon her first appearance in the novel.
 * 107) * Jonjedigrandmaster ( Jedi Beacon ) 17:50, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Comments
 * This had some junk in it. But I cleaned it out, so if it wasn't actually ready before, it is now.--Darth Niffoc 20:21, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless you're asked to otherwise, please put all quotes outside of punctuation.  CC7567  (talk) 21:50, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry Jonjedigrandmaster but I will start cracking on your objections tomorrow or the next day as I am slightly busy...--Darth Niffoc 18:19, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Remove nomination (AgriCorps vote only)
 * 1) Idle outstanding objections three weeks old. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:59, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Indeed.  Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Jedi Beacon ) 21:03, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Eh.  CC7567  (talk) 23:41, September 23, 2009 (UTC)