Forum:CT:TOR and video game canon

With the game on shelves for a couple of weeks now, I think it's about time we have this discussion. How are we going to treat the player stories of Star Wars: The Old Republic? In the past it was easier. Whether Jedi Knight or Knights of the Old Republic, it was quite simple to identify the major plot points and operate on the thus-far universally true assumption that the light-side options are always the canonical choices and outcome of the game as a whole. TOR is a more complicated animal. Bioware has crafted a story-driven MMO where it appears that light side choices for Jedi/Republic as well as dark side choices for Sith/Empire are correct. Since this--particularly the Imperial side of the coin--is in direct contravention of how EU gaming canon has been treated in the past, how are we to proceed? Are all the Jedi/Republic plots and victories canon, while the Sith/Empire plots are relegated to the dustbin of BTS? Or should we be treating all character story plot points, both Republic and Empire, as correct canon? -- DigiFluid 19:17, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Republic only
Only Jedi and Republic quests should be considered canon.

Both sides
Both Republic and Empire quests should be considered
 * 1) For a game with this many hours of gameplay and quests to be considered, I think it would be an absolute shame to throw out half the game based on a principle that was designed around a single-player game experience rather than a multiplay-centric one. Further to that, the only indication we've had so far about the resolution of the Cold War and the Republic/Empire divide is that the time period of the game is when the peace is broken. We have no indication so far as to how it will be resolved; if it's just a matter of the peace being broken and neither side 'winning', then we can't possibly justify one side's plot being more correct than the other. -- DigiFluid 19:17, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) All quests need to be treated as canon, regardless of the player's alignment. The real question should be the assumed outcome. Please see my note below. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 19:27, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Main vote
I feel like the wrong question is being asked in this CT. We are obviously going to treat all available quests as canon unless given official word that this is not the case&mdash;that means that both Republic and Imperial missions are legitimate Star Wars lore. The real question is the outcome of these missions. Traditionally, this wiki has assumed that player characters in RPG games have taken the light-sided path; this has been the case with Jedi Academy and KotOR I and II. However, in all of these instances, the PC's primary story was that of a Jedi, and the game had a clear ending. This is not the case with TOR. In The Old Republic, Imperial characters, particularly the Sith, are intended to be dark-siders. All promotional material and developer releases indicate that these classes were made so that the character could embrace the dark side. Furthermore, the game doesn't have a clear dark-side ending that ruins other canon&mdash;Kyle Katarn doesn't displace Emperor Palpatine, the Sith don't destroy the Republic, and Jaden Korr doesn't fly off in a Star Destroyer. The war just keeps going.

So I think the real question is this: do we assume that all Imperial characters take the dark-side options in Imperial quests, or do we continue the tradition and assume light-sidedness for all characters? I would advocate that we assume dark-sided options for Imperial quests and light-sided options for Republic quests, but a third option would be to avoid posting quest conclusions at all and instead put both options in the BTS as possible outcomes. I don't like that, however, as it leaves the body of the article incomplete and therefore non-comprehensive. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 19:40, January 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * A great addition, and a great question. It crossed my mind as well, when writing the original question, but I thought it would be preferred/necessary to establish how we're treating class stories broadly before delving into the specifics of how they're resolved.


 * I'm of like mind with you on this in that we ought to assume light/dark as per the side that the class belongs to.


 * Maybe we should add a second vote to this thread concerning how quests are resolved. Ie: "IF all class stories are considered canon, THEN we should treat the end results of said quests such that Jedi/Republic pick light side options and Sith/Empire pick dark side resolutions. Agree/Disagree." Or maybe the question should be posed separately, I don't know. -- DigiFluid 19:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree that Republic/Jedi-sided characters should have assume light-side choices, and the opposite for Sith/Empire-sided ones. I'd say another vote is in order.  MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg(Whatever) 23:13, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Side quests
Something else I think we should open to discussion is the status of TOR side/non-main-story quests with regards to canon. While some are certainly frivolous and just exercises in...whatever Bioware felt like making us do at that particular time, there are others which add a great deal of depth and texture to the EU at large. But since these are considered side quests and not part of the main story, I think we should discuss how we're going to treat them. I would love to treat them as canon, but I also hesitate at the thought. Since they're player driven, and by their very nature can't be easily slotted into the main class quests, it'll be pretty much impossible to add these into class character pages without either a separate section (say, "other adventures") or sheer guesswork. There is enough to them, though, that it'd be a terrible loss to ignore their content outright. Definitely looking for thoughts and opinions on this one. -- DigiFluid 19:17, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * All quests are going to be treated as canon regardless of whether or not they are "main" or "side". The only thing that is questionable is the outcome. As far as the class character articles are concerned, they should only contain information on the primary story path and any additional class-specific quests. All other missions should be covered in separate articles, whether they be an event article for the actions taken, or a biographical article for the quest-giver and involved NPCs. In those articles, the player character should only be referred to as "an agent of the Sith Empire" or "an operative working on behalf of the Republic" or somesuch. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 19:26, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Vote Round 2: Light vs. Dark
Consensus above seems to be that the original issue was a foregone conclusion--that all class story quests should be considered canon regardless of whether they're for Republic or Sith Empire. If this changes, we can continue to discuss.

The other prevailing opinion in the opening of this discussion is how we ought to consider the resolution of class quests in SWTOR. To that end:

By side
The presumed canon resolution for Jedi/Smuggler/Trooper quests is the light side dialogue option, while the presumed canon resolution for Sith/Bounty Hunter/Agent quests is the dark side dialogue option.
 * 1) This is the best path, IMO. It both makes sense in the context of the game's storytelling, and it's the most workable option for the purposes of writing. -- DigiFluid 21:35, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) I like it because it finally gives the empire/sith some video game continuity and seems the most reasonably. Darth Needham 02:10, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Light side only
In keeping with how video game canon has been up to this point, all class quests should be assumed to have ended with the light side option.

Case-by-case
Every single plot-related article should be discussed to death before we can write parts of articles.