Forum:CT Archive/Sources and social media

Recently, Lucas Online has been increasing its presence in various social media outlets, such as Facebook and Twitter. That's even what led to the creation of FacebookCite and Twitter. Particularly for The Clone Wars TV series, there have been more promotional material released through these sites that should be considered canon. Examples include:
 * (also reposted on Facebook)

There have also been noteworthy Tweets and Facebook comments from Lucasfilm officials like Leland Chee that have been used for citations in articles, including:

We've been using all of these as citation references so far, but we haven't been very consistent about what to do when it comes to compiling Sources lists. Both WP:CANON and the Layout Guide would need to be updated to reflect any changes we decide on, because in their current form we don't have a specific method of handling them. Out of the above list, we only have a policy for how to treat the second list of Tweets (the comments from Chee), as they would fall under "All comments from Leland Chee or other VIPs regarding the content of the Holocron continuity database or official Lucasfilm decrees."

As of right now, the above list of Facebook posts and Tweets&mdash;with a few exceptions&mdash;would be the only things affected by this proposal, since they're the only promotional material released so far. Please see below.

Although it's not really social media, the Official Star Wars Blog has been seeing more activity recently as well; see Forum:SH:Recategorizing the Official Blog. Chee's Chronicling The Clone Wars series on the Official Blog is the main concern. Currently, the Layout Guide categorizes all Star Wars: Blogs posts as External links, yet Chee's series doesn't really fit that category. If anything, it's closer to the articles we used to get on the old StarWars.com before its revamp in September 2011, which we categorize as Sources&mdash;such as Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties, The Written Word, Xim Week: The History of Xim and the Tion Cluster, and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji.

In addition to the proposals about Facebook and Twitter, I'm also introducing updates, mainly to the Layout Guide, about recategorizing the Official Blog in light of these blog entries from Chee. See below as well.

Any suggestions for rewording the proposals are welcome. Please make sure to introduce them in the respective "Discussion" sections.  CC7567  (talk) 17:56, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Updating WP:CANON for Facebook/Twitter
This vote is to add another bullet point to the Canon policy about treating Facebook posts and Tweets as citable resources. We're already using them as such by citing them in articles, so it makes sense to adopt this practice into policy for clarification.

The following bullet point would be added as the second from the bottom of What is considered a valid resource? (right before, "Officially licensed toys and any descriptions on their packaging"):
 * All promotional material released by Lucas Online and its licensees through social media outlets such as Facebook and Twitter, as well as posts that contain unique canonical information

Adopt proposal

 *  CC7567  (talk) 17:56, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  Stake black   msg 18:17, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) &mdash;MJ&mdash; Jedi Council Chambers 21:26, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * I'd word it as "All promotional material released by Lucas Online and its licensees".  Stake black   msg 18:13, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's been adjusted.  CC7567  (talk) 18:15, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Updating LG Sources for Facebook/Twitter
This vote is to add another bullet point to the Layout Guide about listing Facebook posts and Tweets&mdash;from the official Twitter/Facebook accounts, as well as from Chee and other VIPs&mdash;in Sources lists.

The following would be added as the second bullet point on the Sources list, right before "For Databank and Encyclopedia entries&hellip;''":
 * Facebook posts and Tweets containing official promotional material, as well as comments published through those sites from Leland Chee or other VIPs regarding the content of the Holocron continuity database or official Lucasfilm decrees

Adopt proposal

 *  CC7567  (talk) 17:56, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * It seems these posts and tweets are in a gray area between external links and sources. They don't fit very well in neither category. What if we introduced a new section, like for instance, "External sources"?  Stake black   msg 18:16, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think treating them as Sources is that much of a problem. We already categorize a lot of off-site material as Sources, and the promotional material released through social medial is meant to be treated as canon, too. The "Treaty of Iziz" and "Reformation of Jedi military command" posts are intended as in-universe material, in the same vein as The Jedi Path and Book of Sith.  CC7567  (talk) 18:20, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point, but The Jedi Path and the Book of Sith aren't links. I agree, this is not much of a problem, but in terms of aesthetics, I think it'd do well to have a separate section for these hybrid sources (what's the point of having an External links section if links are being placed in the Sources section?)  Stake black   msg 18:26, February 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * If we start listing every promotional post, our Sources lists will probably get very bloated very quick. I'd prefer to restrict the Sources list to only those posts that provide unique canonical information. &mdash;MJ&mdash; Jedi Council Chambers 21:26, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Updating LG Sources for Official Blog
This vote is to allow Official Blog entries like Chee's Chronicling The Clone Wars series to be listed in Sources lists.

The update would modify the first bullet point of "Sources" on the Layout Guide, which currently reads:
 * Bulleted list of reference books, including sourcebooks from West End Games and Wizards of the Coast, Databank entries, pages on the WotC website, StarWars.com articles, LucasArts websites, game strategy guides, Insider articles, and any other official non-fiction sources.

To:
 * Bulleted list of reference books, including sourcebooks from West End Games and Wizards of the Coast, Databank entries, pages on the WotC website, StarWars.com articles, LucasArts websites, game strategy guides, Insider articles, Star Wars Blog entries with unique canonical information, and any other official non-fiction sources.

Adopt proposal

 * 1) &mdash;MJ&mdash; Jedi Council Chambers 21:26, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Updating LG External links for Official Blog
This vote is to clarify in the "External links" section of the Layout Guide that some Blog entries should be considered as sources.

The following would be added as a sub-bullet on the External links lists, right after "For Wikipedia articles&hellip;"
 * Note that some entries on the Star Wars Blog, such as the Chronicling The Clone Wars series, have unique canonical information and should be treated as Sources.
 * → See Forum:CT Archive/ <--Link to wherever this CT ends up after archiving, assuming its passage-->

Adopt proposal

 *  CC7567  (talk) 17:56, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) &mdash;MJ&mdash; Jedi Council Chambers 21:26, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

General discussion
Don't forget Youtube, which also deserves its own template. Channels from official SW licensees should also be included. Just to mention a few, SW.com, RovioMobile (Angry Birds), Fantasy Flight Games etc.  Stake black   msg 18:04, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think in regards to YouTube, we've been less reliant on using YouTube videos as sources or citable resources. Most of the videos have been appearing on the official Star Wars site, so we don't use YouTube as much now. Not to sound dismissive, but it would be a separate topic that should be pursued outside of this CT because it has a lot of different issues.  CC7567  (talk) 18:08, February 3, 2013 (UTC)