Talk:Grievous/Legends

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Coughing
Is it ever stated explicitly why he coughs? From what I've read elsewhere, it seems to me that it is merely assumed that he got the cough thanks to Mace's force-crush at the end of Clone Wars. Granted, I haven't read Labyrinth of Evil, so maybe it's explained there. Kuralyov 00:48, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * He didn't wheeze or cough before Mace crushed his chest plate in, so I imagine its safe to assume that as the cause. --65.96.185.195 01:32, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * He didn't cought before the crushing, and he started coughing a lot as soon as it did happen, even for the brief time in the cartoon after it happened. – Aidje talk 05:09, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Somebody decided he should cough in the movie to prove to dumb movie audiences that he's not a robot. --24.141.193.190 02:28, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * In Deep Forest (one of the Visionaries stories) Greivous does indeed have a hacking cough. Rob Coleman says that the coughing is due to his organic body not taking well to the cyborg shell. Mace's "crush" simply aggravated an existing problem. Tam 14:19, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)

his chest plates were force pushed by mace
 * In the Audio commentary of Revenge of the Sith, it is said that Grievous coughing was explained in the cartoon Clone Wars. Does this make of it the canon explanation despite the other sources ?--Petiflo 16:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * First: Don't post in the middle of a discussion. Second: Windu's Force crush was the cause. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Then I am confused, how was he able to survive total vacuum after he smashed out the viewport of the Invisible Hand?--Quidon88 03:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe he just held his breath... Petiflo 09:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * No. He was a cyborg; he probably had modifications to his lungs that allowed him to breathe in vacuum. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Breathe in vaccuum" ??? Excuse me if I'm wrong, but even with tweaked lungs, it don't think that's possible to breathe in vacuum, the very definition of vacuum is that there is nothing to breathe... Petiflo 21:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, he survived, didn't he? He was a cyborg. He definitely used the fusion of technology with his organs to survive being in a vaccuum. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * He was cyborg yes, but he still had organic lungs, which no source indicate were tweaked, and organic lungs inhale oxygen, which you don't find in space. On the other hand, this fusion of technology certainly protected him against the coldness of space.Petiflo 12:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Take Vader as an example, EP3 novel stated that his armor pump oxygen directly into his blood; maybe Grievous used his organic lungs to breath in normal state, and his cyber part would automatically kick in to work like Vader in vacuum. Darth Kevinmhk 13:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's definetely possible yes.Petiflo 16:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yet you yourself just said "which no source indicate were tweaked". I'd call the Vader thing having tweaked lungs. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd call it an "improvement add-on", but I guess it's all a matter of point of view ;) Petiflo 09:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Improvement add-on" would be "tweaked". ;) Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * hate to restart a dead thread but does this mean the clone wars cartoon is canon? Ugluk 00:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 00:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Heart Stunning Device or Sith Lightning?

 * In Visionaries - The Eyes of Revolution P.121, it appeared that Dooku took a hand held device from his belt and used it to blast Grievous. The bolts produced were orange instead of Sith Lightning's skyblue. Dooku then said "The heart stun will wear off shortly." I believe it was a heart stunning device, instead of Sith Lightning currenly mentioned in the article. Any thoughts? Darth Kevinmhk 16:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Visionaries is not canon. It was Sith lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 17:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There was another source (but I forget which exactly it is) that I read that mentions that Dooku 'uses his power' to keep Grievous alive, with a small picture of the zapping. That may be a mistake by them, though. I haven't read Visionaries, only the secondary source. Yrfeloran 17:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This second source would be correct, then. What is it, by the way? Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 17:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide, here. Definitely says he 'used his power'. Yrfeloran 18:47, 18 March 2006 (UTC) [[Image:Ultimate4.jpg]]
 * Unknown Soldier: The Story of General Grievous says he uses Sith Lightning as well.--Rune Haako 18:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There you go. Sith lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 19:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, i know Ultimate Visual Guide + Unknown Soldier together outrank Visionaries... but the ironic part is that the picture attached in the Ultimate Visual Guide comes from Visionaries. But I know better than argue against Insider article, so it's settle then (Although I am not convinced). Darth Kevinmhk 04:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? It's Sith lightning, and it's been backed up. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 13:46, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Because the Ultimate Visual Guide used the pic of Visionaries, in which not only the bolts were orange, Dooku seemed to have a device in his palm. Anyway, was The Eyes of Revolution considered as retconned to C-canon after the Insider Grievous articles published? Darth Kevinmhk 15:12, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said above, Visionaries is not canon. All canon sources say lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 15:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, Visionaries are not totally non-canon, and The Eyes of Revolution seems fit into continulity according to our Holocron Keeper. Check this out: http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Talk:Star_Wars_Visionaries Darth Kevinmhk 16:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Still, it's lightning. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 16:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I know, I had already said that "I know better than argue against Insider article." Darth Kevinmhk 16:49, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, then, it's settled. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 16:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It is a small device. I have the story. It is a stunning device. DarthMalus 15:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * More canonical sources disagree. It's lightning. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * nope. it is a device as it is in dooku's hand and thus overides any other source because of artist intention. insider made an error. it happens sometimes. we will just have to point out their mistake by writing them a letter.
 * No, it is Force lightning. Insider and The Ultimate Visual Guide both say so. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 23:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

But that is not what is illustrated. That means Insider and TUVG made a mistake. It's no big deal. A simply letter will clear it up and canonize what IS actually depicted, and that is Dooku using a stunning device.
 * No, because the later sources say it was Force lightning and not something else. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 22:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * But that is not what is illustrated. maybe we should just said heart stun because its obvious you want Dooku to have used Force Lightning, but what is illustrated was deemed canon. If it were in fact lightning it would have been illustrated. A pic of it woulodnt hurt either where the device is clearly visible. It is an error that needs correction. Dooku was laso not that skilled with force lightning.
 * No. Sources clearly say it was Force lightning. And Dooku could still use Force lightning, anon. Enough with this already. The majority of canon says lightning, not heart-stunning device. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Grievous' lightsaber trophies on the Trenchant?
Are those ment to be some of his Jedi lightsaber trophies?--Rune Haako 22:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7529/grievoustrophies6ql.jpg
 * I suppose so. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 00:36, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Err... but i doubt those Jedi Robes are also Grievous' trophies... Darth Kevinmhk 02:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * They could be. Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) 21:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think he was talking about the lightsabers in the glass in front of Ventress. As for the robes, they do look pretty torn up, so they probably came from slain Jedi. -- SFH 20:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * "I think he was talking about the lightsabers in the glass in front of Ventress". Just wondering, who's "he" and who was that directed at? Admiral J. Nebulax (talk) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack, I think SFH is referring to User:Rune Haako by saying "he" --DannyBoy7783 14:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Where does this picture come from?? It looks like CLONE WARS but it doesn´t appeare in CLONE WARS I or II.--commander-rob 9:44 August 2006
 * It's in one of the Clone Wars Adventures. But please try to avoid restarting discussions in the future. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

His "gunship" in Clone Wars chapter 25?

 * Can anyone identify the type of vessel Grievous uses to narrowly escape Mace Windu on Coruscant? It appears to have more than one weapons turret capable of firing to the rear, and a hyperspace drive (or possibly a stealth system) capable of engaging at relatively low altitude.
 * It probably is some sort of MAF or a Gunboat, but no one really knows what it is. Demolitions Expert RC-1187 Helmet Comlink [[Image:Galactic_Republic.JPG|20px]]
 * He uses a "tri-winged shuttle" to escort Palpatine to Invisible Hand in Labyrinth of Evil - Kwenn 11:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected,Demolitions Expert RC-1187 Helmet Comlink [[Image:Galactic_Republic.JPG|20px]]
 * The ship in the cartoon is definitely not a Theta-class shuttle, but perhaps the Seps used a tri-winged shuttle of their own design?
 * Yes they did, though no actual designation other than "tri-wing shuttle" is given. He also uses a "Separatist gunboat" earlier in the book, apparently similar to a LAAT/i - Kwenn 12:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not surprised that the book and the cartoon would have him using two separate vehicles. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * They're not neccessarily two separate vehicles. The cartoon features a tri-wing shuttle, right? I think they're supposed to be the same - Kwenn 12:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's one good thing about books that contradict/are contradicted by other sources&mdash;no pictures. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The shuttle-sized ship in the cartoon does not appear to have three wings, but two. However, I could be wrong, of course.  And certainly it could feasibly be the "same" vehicle referred to in Labyrinth.  More likely, though, is discrepancy between the two sources, which are different in many ways.
 * The third "wing" is the main body. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, though that doesn't seem very plausible. Why call a vehicle with a fuselage and two wings a 'tri-wing shuttle'?
 * Because the fuselage appears very thin and looks like a third wing. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And it's better than having them as two separate vessels, which would only cause contradictions - Kwenn 20:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Which is something we don't need. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't they call it a Gunship? And there's already a Separatist Gunship? The disk like thing? I know it's droid operated, but I always thought they'd just modified one for passenger carrying. --Sauron18 16:02 29 June 2006 (CDT)
 * No. He uses a gunboat, which I think is also referred to as a gunship, to chase the mag-lev train, then later a tri-wing shuttle to reach his flagship - Kwenn 21:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Why not just use the same vehicle? Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Because the gunboat was an atmospheric infantry transport while the shuttle was an orbital personnel transport - Kwenn 21:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh. Got it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 21:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Grievous uses the gunboat first after seizing Palpatine, but this is then chased by Clones after Mace thinks Grievous fell. It turns out that the gunboat has been leading them on, and that a specially-prepared LAAT was used to reacquire Grievous, who hung onto the rail.  This LAAT is destroyed, but not before delivering him to the bunker, where he retakes Palpatine and makes his getaway in a tri-winged shuttle with "meager" weaponry.  This shuttle must surely be a Republic shuttle, which was always just sat there at the bunker, such as the Theta-class!  I think the vessel used in Chapter 25 is making its one and only appearance there, in yet another discrepancy between Clone Wars and Labyrinth of Evil.  It is certainly heavily armed. By the way, I'm the guy who first started this discussion, in case you're wondering.  I don't know what I was thinking with the hyperdrive comment, as he is obviously headed for orbit.  But then why the flash as it suddenly disappears from Mace's view?  Is it just igniting its basic engines?
 * Please don't post in the middle of a discussion. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry! I thought that was the whole point of using the asterisks to indent. I was responding to your post "Which is something we don't need", not your post "Oh. Got it." :)
 * Yeah, it's just that when some people are looking for the latest edit, they might not find it because it could be in the middle of a discussion. And don't worry about it. It's just a small accident. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 17:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being cool about it. Look, I got an account now!--Kev-La Ttolya 11:41, 4 July 2006
 * No problem. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 13:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * So, anyway, surely the tri-winged shuttle in Labyrinth must be a Republic shuttle, probably Theta-class? Kev-La Ttolya 16:40 12 July 2006 (GMT)
 * Why? It could easily have been landed on that platform by his droids - his gunboat managed to get past aerial defenses, and the shuttle is able to reach orbit without being destroyed, so it's not as if it's impossible for a CIS shuttle to make it to that point. Also, there's no point in making these ships different, as the description loosely fits the depiction. And finally, the shuttle couldn't have used a hyperdrive to escape Mace, as it was in the atmosphere, and hyperdrives can't be used within a gravity well. It likely had a booster or similar - Kwenn 16:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The tri-winged shuttle is waiting on a landing pad at the Supreme Chancellor's bunker. I believe that Grievous needed codes (supplied by Tyranus, via Sidious) to get to (and, I think, into) the shuttle (which is obviously undamaged to begin with and becomes heavily damaged during the escape).  If it was a Sep vessel, why did noone know that it was next to the Chancellor's emergency bunker, and where is the transport vehicle that would surely be posted there?  These factors lead me to assume that, since the shuttle in Labyrinth was obviously never intended by the author to bear any relation to the vehicle in Clone Wars (the two are full of contradictions), it is likely it was not only different, but not a CIS vessel at all.  Also, the only tri-winged shuttle I've seen is the Theta-class. So, to conclude:  I believe the 'tri-winged shuttle' referred to in Labyrinth of Evil is a Republic shuttle (possibly Theta-class), and that the shuttle Grievous uses in Clone Wars is an unidentified Separatist vessel.  Just because it makes it 'easier' or 'neater' for us fans if we can somehow tie-up contradictory sources, does not mean that it makes more sense that way, or better reflects the intentions of the author(s). Kev-La Ttolya 18:00 12 july 2006 (GMT)
 * The fact is, Clone Wars and LoE contradict each other, so we either just pick one to use here, or make it confusing by using both. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can appreciate that. I actually started off wondering about Grievous' craft in the cartoon, and then got to thinking about the tri-winged shuttle from Labyrinth. I'll take a look at the Theta-class discussion as that would be a better place for any possible mention of Grievous possibly using one, I guess. Thanks! Kev-La Ttolya 09.14 13 july 2006 (GMT)
 * Actually, we might never know if he used one. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree entirely. However, I would point out that there may also come a day when we do find out what the author's intention was.  And while discussion here could not feasibly hinder any approach of the latter, I can imagine it might speed it. Kev-La Ttolya 01:30 14 july 2006 (GMT)
 * We could get an answer some day, yes, but it's pointless to just wait for it. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 14:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I say the author of LOE ought to rewrite the book to acomidate the Clone Wars. Anyone agree? user:Darth Vatrir
 * Well, the novel possesses the higher canonicity of the two, and personally, I prefer the novel to the cartoon anyway. Sorry, but you don't get my vote. -Kev-La Ttolya 09:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus, authors just don't rewrite their books to solve disputes. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 12:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually I believe Leland Chee said that the canon event was depicted in the Clone Wars cartoon.
 * Provide a link to where he said it, then, because I find that hard to believe. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sceptical about that too. Why would they bypass their own rules of canonocity? --beeurd 23:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the anon is just trying to get the Clone Wars cartoon more canon than LoE. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Shaak Ti
Didn't Grevious kill Shaak Ti aboard the invisible hand? She is not listed in the Jedi Kills section. (Deleted scene of EPIII on the DVD) 24.162.85.5 17:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Since that scene was deleted, it is superceded by the ROTS novel, which states that Anakin killed her in the Jedi Temple. - Angel Blue 451 17:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Which is wrong..again. Shaak Ti is not dead, numerous sources say so, she escaped! No one knows how she dies yet, the relevant info is on her talk page which is where this question should of been really! Jedi Dude 17:53, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah. One of the more-recent Insider issues confirmed that, since neither death of Ti was in the movie, Shaak Ti actually survived. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Also note Shaak appears in hologram form on the Jedi Council during the Battle of Kashyyyk, thus proving in G-canon she at least survived Invisible Hand. She's apparently going to appear in Force Unleashed judging by concept art released on the OS - Kwenn 19:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent points. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 19:52, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Spinning torso
Is his ability to spin his torso completely around canon? I first saw it in the RotS video game and dismissed it as a game mechanic, but then I saw that episode of Clone Wars where he fights the Jedi on Hypori and noticed he did it in that as well.--Darth OblivionComlink 18:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * While I doubt it after looking over images of him, it probably is canon. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 20:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Main Pic
For the main pic on Grievous's profile, I think we should use this pic instead of the current one. I find its a more dynamic pose and he actually looks like a warlord, instead of just an advancing droid with lightsabers. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Of cource I won't mind if anyone suggests another pic. user:Darth Vatrir
 * Uh, that doesn't show a lot of him like the current one does. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 11:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)