Talk:Home One/Legends

Saxton's >3 km length is not "fan conjecture." It's a measurement taken from the canon movies, which override the length from WEG. If it's fan conjecture, then so is the Executor being more than 8 km long all these years until recently, with that made-up 12.8 km stuff, and the real length being allowed in Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars Trilogy. JimRaynor55 09:29, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * agree--Eion 14:38, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Saxton is no more than a fan when he is not writing Star Wars books. He can make as many measurements as he wants, but until his measurements are supported by a published material, it is fanon. How can we employ Earth measurements in the Star Wars galaxy? Maybe light bends differently. Maybe light is reflected differently. It doesn't matter. How do you know he measured the depth of the shot correctly to tell the proper scale of other ships? The point is, if LFL supported his view, it would do so in sources. His views of Executor's size have been supported in ItW, but that doesn't automatically confirm every other conjecture he has put forth. --SparqMan 15:20, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * He measured it by comparing Star Destroyers and the like, too. As I've said before, if an 'official' source had Vader's height as 4 feet tall, yet all other measurements in the films proved otherwise, what are you going to go by? It's direct observation of the film (which is G-canon), and no more speculative than saying that Endor's moon has lots of trees, even if a canon source said it was desert. --Fade 16:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it's a lot more speculative. Saxton has no means of precisely measuring the depth of a shot, and so he casually guesses at the depth and then uses the Corellian Corvette as a measuring stick. And the Vader example is not the same: it is easy to assess his height given his surroundings. Curtis' comparisons of the ship against other items in the shot using his technique. I don't hold that the WEG length is correct, but his measurements are simply his own assessment, and nothing more than that. LFL has, and continues to have, ample opportunities to correct WEG through WOTC, EG books, ITW prints, novels, comics, etc., but it has not. So until then, there is no reason to assume Saxton's accuracy. --SparqMan 20:50, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Let's not bring this argument here. Yes, the official measurements seem wacky. Yes, Saxton's may be better. Yes, they will probably make it into canon publications. For now, since we made a decision to use canon sources, we have to use the *current* official figure. If it is ever changed (or correct, depending on your view) we can change this page. The magic of wikis! QuentinGeorge 22:14, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Retirement
Do we know for a fact that Home One was retired? Or maybe it was destroyed when the New Republic was driven off Coruscant? -- SFH 04:06, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I was thinking that too -SWF
 * One must also ask the question: Could they afford to decomission ships at the time? The New Republic had just been driven from Coruscant, and vital shipyard worlds such as Duro and Mon Calamari were under threat (though I imagine that Kuat and the Tapani Sector went back to the Empire of their own free will). Also, Home One was working just fine during the Thrawn campaign, but then they decide to retire it? Does anyone else find some sort of flaws in this logic? -- SFH 19:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Home One was still active following the defeat of reborn Palpy, 11 ABY. It is in the book I, Jedi. It was no longer Ackbar's flagship but it still saw service at that point. AdmiralNick22 02:07, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

New entry/Behind the scences
I have completed a major edit to this article. I feel that it was fair to mention both camps of the argument in rgards to Home One and its size. I would like to note that while the stats at the top are those found in WEG, the new behind the scenes section gives fair mention to both camps, in particular to the work of Dr. Curtis Saxton.

While I am inclined to support Saxton's theory on the length, it has yet to be put into canon, despite whatever the films themselves show. In an effort to make the Wookieepedia a site that shows only canon information in its articles, I have removed the stats that came from the Warships of the Mon Calamari page.

Please note that this is in no way a snub to Dr. Saxton. Again, I stress that while I myself personally agree with his size estimate for Home One, the Wookieepedia is only a good source of info for fans if it includes info from canon sources. Should Dr. Saxton ever get his work on Ackbar's cruiser published in a EU sourcebook, like he did for the SSD, I will happily edit this article. But, until then, it is most prudent to include those original WEG stats. AdmiralNick22 18:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

A Possible way to judge the correct canon length from the ROTJ
I was reading this and I think there may be a way to judge the actual lenght of Home One. There is a scene where the stolen Imperial Shuttle Tyderium leaves the hanger bay of Home One with it's wings folded. we just have to measure the width of Tyderium with folded wings, compare it to the width of the large starboard hanger and then use that number to get the actual length of Home one from both ROTJ, the actual model and ANY pic showing the right outboard profile of Home one. I'll see if I can figure it out but I'll upload the pic so you all can see it. I took a screen capture direct from the DVD. Enjoy --Lord Tyranneix 00:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That is what Dr. Saxton has done, IIRC. While this is evidence to some, we cannot officially state the larger length until it becomes part of printed canon. Fans debate the scale of ships in the movies just as strongly. Hopefully one day someone at LFL will settle this debate, but until then it is fair to mention both viewpoints. AdmiralNick22 15:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If the movies show something to be a certain size, then that size is canon. The Executor would still be 11-12 miles long even if WEG's 5 mile length had never been officially corrected. If the movies show Home One to be 3.8km long, then 3.8km is the canon length. -Vermilion 20:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't diagree with you in principle, but the fact remains that the Wiki is only good if it shows the stats that are "official" for each vessel. Even if the movies show Home One to be bigger, the stats that LFL still work with are the smaller set. That is why I compromised- show the small stats, while making a huge behind the scences section that details the debate and tells viewers the two viewpoints.

Afterall, the SSD size debate has died off considerably thanks to LFL finally choosing a official length. Hopefully they will do this for Home One as well. AdmiralNick22 15:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * You seem to have missed the point. Stats known to be wrong should have no place on the Wiki outside a 'Behind the scenes' section. Repeating mistakes only makes it harder to get them officially fixed. -Vermilion 08:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess I view it differently. The movies may in fact show Home One to be larger, which I do not dispute, but LFL still holds to its old length. I do not dispute the fact that the moviews themselves are the ultimate canon, but for whatever reason LFL does nto change the length of Ackbar's flagship. Regardless of how accurate Dr. Saxton's measurements are (which they do appear to be very accurate), the powers at be at LFL have yet to weigh in on the Home One debate. I chose to edit the article into line with their current policy- which has the vessel still at 1200 meters. I did not do this in an attempt to disregard the work of Dr. Saxton, but in an effort to make this article as much in line with official policy as possible. Afterall, the Wookieepedia is only a good resource if we all strive to include what is accepted as canon at the time. I will not edit this again to avoid a edit war, but I do feel that my reason for including the old length was justified. AdmiralNick22 02:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Keeping any wrong number or statement around when the opposite is shown in the movies or other high canon source, is plain and simply wrong and should be noted as such in the article. Whether you "feel" differently is not good enough for evidence. If we followed your logic, Luke's yellow lightsabre from the old toyset would be noted in the actual article rather than as a 'goof' in a "behind the scenes"-section. After all, no-one acknowledges it as green in the film, so the possibility is there, right?
 * I also noted that another complaint made about the measurements (that the dimensions of the doorway in the internal mattepainting and the exterior model were too dissimilar), was wrong. The only inconsistency in the two scenes, is the lights on the hangarbay walls, and since they have no bearing on any dimensional measurements, this was a false assumption.
 * There is also another size-indicator in ROTJ. It's alot more rough and imprecise, but it shows how absurd the "1200m" notion is. When the camera first opens up on the fleet in formation, and the starfighters move away from the camera, the Mon Cal cruiser to the right is being overtaken by the camera. Meanwhile, the Home One (or a sister-ship) is in the background throughout the scene, barely budging an inch. Now, whenever we see something like this in real life, it means that if the object of a seemingly same size is not moving (relative to us, the observers), it is further away and much bigger than the one rapidly "moving towards us" (in comparison).
 * A third option is presuming that the engines on the Home One are the same size as the Liberty type's (presuming they were all of the same type, according to some). Even if that was the case, the Home One would still be above 2km in length. VT-16 22:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, we can agree to disagree. I still feel that using the current official length (at least according to LFL- personally I agree with the larger) is the best bet, while putting alot of info into the Behind the Scenes section detailing Dr. Saxton's work and showing how the current LFL policy is in fact incorrect. That way we tell it "how it is" while maintaining the article in close standard to the one currently held by LFL. AdmiralNick22 04:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I really don't want to emphasise Curtis Saxton any more than that he first put forward the notion in an article (unless of course, someone else mentioned the discrepancy even earlier). This isn't an article about him, and I've noticed a tendency of some wookipedians to write somewhat slanted BTS-info whenever Saxton's name is mentioned. The less this article focuses on him, the better.
 * As for the length, well, if you take the 1200m mark, you'd basically forgo a higher source (the movies) for lower ones (secondary factbooks and RPGs). It's like writing that Yoda's skin is blue (an actual fan injoke from around the premiere of AOTC, because of the Dooku lightning scene), when people watching the films clearly see its green. Or writing that the A-wing is bigger than the X-wing. You're not going to get alot of people subscribing to that theory, but the reason it's happened here (and with the Executor) is because of the time involved (decades of the same stats) and because of the overt focus on the people behind the fansites taking precedence.
 * To further complicate things, some of the secondary sources don't always agree. I've seen comics that have the Home One eclipse a Dreadnaught cruiser by at least four times (had it been 1200m, it would only be twice as long). Most comics simply show the Home One dominating the scene anyway (like in ROTJ), so you'd be hard-pressed to find an actual scene where it's shrunk down to the size of the other cruisers. VT-16 09:46, 19 March 2006 (UTC)