User talk:SavageBob

 '''I really dislike fragmented discussions, so if you post something here, I will reply here. Likewise, if I post something to your talk page, please reply there; I will be watching.'''

Archived talk: 1234567

Dathomirian vs Dathomiri
Hey, Savage. I don't suppose you remember our discussion about "Dathomirian vs Dathomiri" we had on this talk page, but I've finally found evidence that "Dathomiri" is indeed a demonym and not a racial term.
 * 1) In Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Darth Maul is referred to as "a male Zabrak, but not of the Iridonian sort; rather, a Dathomirian". Later in the book, Palpatine says: "I found such a one on Dathomir not a year ago. A male Dathomiri Zabrak infant." While the first occurrence is clearly a mention of species (a Dathomirian), the second one states Maul's origin.
 * 2) In Nightsaber, the word Dathomiri is used to qualify both the "Dathomiri Force witches" and the "Dathomiri underground."
 * 3) Much more conclusive, Backlash uses expressions such as "Dathomiri spaceport", "Dathomiri clans", "Dathomiri knife", "Dathomiri orbit" and "Dathomiri rain forest."

However, it should be noted that "Dathomirian" has been used inappropriately to qualifiy Humans living on Dathomir:
 * 1) Charal's old Databank entry listed her as a Human and a member of the "Dathomirian Nightsisters"
 * 2) I cannot check just now, but I believe Gethzerion too has been called a Dathomirian in some RPG sourcebooks, despite being established as Human in The Essential Guide to Characters.

This raises a specific problem on the identification of species when it comes to Dathomiri characters. For example, Tribeless Sha's article has her as a member of the Dathomirian species. However, Backlash simply says she is "a Dathomiri woman."

Now that we have more evidence, I'd like to hear your thought about this. --LelalMekha (talk) 15:27, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I wonder if we can simply cite The Essential Reader's Companion as evidence that the Singing Mountain Clan, at least, are Human. They're listed as such on the entry for The Courtship of Princess Leia. However, Gethzerion seems to have been retconned as a Dathomirian, since that's listed as her species on the same page. So, yes, I think the burden of proof would be on establishing a character as being of the Dathomirian species rather than simply being a Human from Dathomir (and hence a Dathomiri). ~ Savage BOB sig.png 15:32, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Moreover, The Essential Atlas states that Dathomir hosted only about 5,200 inhabitants, 97% of which were Human. That means the percentage of Dathomirians is definitely negligible, especially since most of them were massacred by Grievous. However, I wonder wheter Gethzerion was actually retconned as a Dathomirian of blood or if it's just another use of the term "Dathomirian" as a demonym&mdash;just like Charal. Asking Pablo Hidalgo would probably solve the mystery. --LelalMekha (talk) 15:38, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * That shouldn't be necessary; each book entry lists the principal characters with species in parentheses, so it's evident he intends her to be a Dathomirian by species. I'm away from the book at the moment, but I'll double check tonight just to make sure. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 16:03, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's exactly how the book writes their species in the "main characters" list for The Courtship of Princess Leia: "Teneniel Djo, Witch of Dathomir (human female); Gethzerion, Nightsister (Dathomirian female)" (p. 296). However, in the caption for the image on the next page, we get, "Aboard the ruins of the Chu'unthor, Luke Skywalker defends himself from attack by the Dathomirian warrior Teneniel Djo." So, I suppose, Dathomiri and Dathomirian are both demonyms, but Dathomirian is more likely to be a species identity, and Dathomiri is never a species name. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 12:48, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. But why, oh why? Why on Earth did Pablo Hidlago feel compelled to make Gethzerion a Dathomirian? Darned Clone Wars steamroller... --LelalMekha (talk) 10:32, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Nho'Apakk
Hello Bob, on Yodapedia Sompeetalay recently changed the Nho'Apakk article showing an image of him loading rocks onto a catapult, though I'm not sure if it's a film shot, or a production still. You can check the information here, and see if that can indeed be proven as Nho'Apakk. By the way, were you aware of that Blue Harvest behind the scenes photo where he was holding the movie slate? Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 17:27, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Thanks for alerting me! I've dropped a line on Sompeetalay's talk page to ask him about the identification. I'm a bit skeptical, since the Ewok in those pictures has striped fur, but the Nho'Apakk toy has fur that's all the same color. But maybe Som has some info I don't know about. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 21:00, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

CT
Hey, Bob. I noticed you were getting ready to propose a CT for how we handle unidentified species. Would it be ok if I made a suggestion for a possible addition to the proposal? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:28, November 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, Tope, absolutely! I meant to ask you for input, but I was rushed and only had time to ping Menkooroo. I'd appreciate any feedback. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 01:57, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

Homeworld Security FA objection
Hey, I'm not sure if you know or not, I just noticed myself actually, but you still have an open objection at the end of your review for the Homeworld Security Command. If you could please take a look and make sure it got addressed, thanks! Cheers, Coruscantfan (Talk) 05:33, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

User 12
Thank you--12.71.5.221 17:38, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Concept art
Thanks for pointing those articles out. The issue that I noticed with the Zilkin article specifically (it doesn't seem to apply to the other articles) is that the sources that I removed were concept art of something that became the Zilkin species design, not concept art of Zilkins. I would agree that the sources should be listed in the glurrg article, as they were concept art of that subject, but it's different for the Zilkin&mdash;the original design was created years before The Clone Wars created the Zilkin species, so anything that preceded its conception shouldn't be treated as a depiction of the species. A Bts note would be appropriate, I think, but I don't find that the concept art depictions should be listed in the Sources list unless they specifically depict Zilkins. Hope I'm being clear.  CC7567  (talk) 21:32, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

Unverified article
Hey. An article that you created back in August (Unidentified Rebel Alliance base (Datar)) was tagged Verify today by, who claims that the appearance given was invalid. If you can figure out what's going on, you might wanna save it. &mdash;MJ&mdash; Council Chambers 22:48, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Snoova
Hey Savagebob. I happened to be looking at the original barn burner page and saw the discussion related to Snoova apearing in Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds and I thought I'd help out even though its already an FA. The bounty hunter unit for the Wookiees is Snoova's sprite, and he is a unit that can be placed in the games level editor. This will need to be put in the appearances list (With an nc template next to it) and maybe a small Bts mention.  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 01:07, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up! From what I remember from that discussion, the Wookiee bounty hunter unit is really a "generic" unit and is not supposed to represent Snoova as an individual, though. The ambiguity of the appearance is already discussed in the BTS of the article, but since it's not "really" him, we decided not to include it in the Appearances list. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 15:53, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well there's still his appearance in the level editor which is really Snoova, and that is a real appearance of him, but its just non-canon.  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 02:15, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? I haven't played the game, so what distinguishes the Snoova version of the sprite from the Snoova look-a-like version? ~ Savage BOB sig.png 06:26, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * The look-a-like version is just the sprite used for the bounty hunter created by the player in normal gameplay when using the Wookiees, but in the level editor, the player can put specific characters in their own levels that they can't use in normal gameplay, and Snoova is one of those characters. Both of these appearances are non-canon, as the scenario editor is non-canon and bounty hunters are not required to be created by the player in any of the canon Wookiee campaigns. Hope that clears it up.  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 07:21, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, that does help; thanks. However, the article currently says that Star Wars Battlefront: Renegade Squadron and Star Wars Battlefront: Elite Squadron are the games that have the Wookiee bounty hunter sprite. So is he in Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds too? ~ Savage BOB sig.png 15:33, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't played either of those Battlefront games, so I can't help you with those, but yes, he is in Galactic Battlegrounds.  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 22:07, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * So do you want to add this info to the article, or would it be easier if I did?  Commander Code-8  To say hi, press 42 09:05, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, Commander! Sorry for the delayed response on this. I've been away for the holidays and haven't had consistent Internet access. Feel free to add the information if you wish. If not, I should be able to get to it in the next day or two. And Happy New Year! :) ~ Savage BOB sig.png 15:59, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Good things come to those who wait...
... or don't they? I may be two days late, but it sure won't stop me from wishing you a merry Christmas! I guess I'll have more luck with the New Year's wishes! Thank you for your help on the Wook in 2012. --LelalMekha (talk) 23:49, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Merry Christmas to you, too! It's been a pleasure working with you over the past year. Here's to more to come! ~ Savage BOB sig.png 00:38, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Guineo question
Hello, I'm finally going to finish the Guineo article and would like to ask you a quick question. In your Draag article you mention the they had both male and female sexes. Can the same be said for the Guineo species? I know that the game said that the individuals in the game were male, but is that enough to establish that there were females as well? If so, can you give me the page number I can source it to? Thank you for your time.-- Exiled Jedi   (Greetings)  23:13, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm. As the dictionary definition of male requires the existence of female, I think it's probably safe to assume they have females even if no source explicitly mentions as such. Of course, you could always say something like, "The Guineo had at least one sex, male" or something like that if you don't think the female assumption is warranted. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 16:02, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year
Hi, I wanna wish you a happy new year! :) --XXLVenom998 (talk) 15:37, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! And Happy New Year to you, as well! ~ Savage BOB sig.png 15:52, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Cite template
Hey SavageBob. I changed it because short stories aren't usually italicized, unlike Insider articles. Cheers.  Stake black   msg 00:03, January 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, Slake. Actually, there are two separate issues here. The first is italics versus quotes. In 99% of style guides, neither magazine articles nor short stories are italicized. However, there have been Senate Hall threads on this for the Wook, and people have not come to consensus about whether we should italicize or use quotes here. That's why the InsiderCite template both italicizes and puts the article titles in quotes. The second issue is about the sub-content of the Clone Wars UK magazine. We use the template not only for the short comic included in each issue, but also for the (non-story) articles. In this regard, it's very much similar to the Insider. For that reason, the templates should match as well as possible. If you think that one should not have italics for the articles/stories, I'd argue that none of them should have italics for the articles/stories. In other words, I don't really mind one way or the other, but the two templates should match. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 00:12, January 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see. Well, I don't feel strongly about this either, either way is fine. Cheers.  Stake black   msg 00:19, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Dandelion warriors
Hey Savage. Today, I've decided to give the Dandelion warriors article some love, on a whim. I intend to expand and source it some more before nominating it some time in the future. However, I'm having two little problems that you may help resolve. First things first: when I started working on the article, the name "fftssfft" was written everywhere without capital letter. That seems fair enough, since the name was written like that in Castaways of Endor; however, I'm wondering whether a sentence may begin with a lower-case letter in proper, encyclopedic English. In French, it is an absolute rule that a sentence must begin with a cap, and I thought it was also the case in English. What say you?

And yet another thing: while the dandelion warriors from the TV episode To Save Deej seem to have blue stems (per the screenshot included in the dandelion article), the children book adaptation shows them as green. However, in the low-quality videos of the episode I've seen on Youtube, the dandelions' bodies look somewhat greenish. Is it possible that the colors of the DVD edition are somehow messed up? What do you think? --LelalMekha (talk) 22:20, January 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, Lelal! That's great; I can't wait to read your expansion of the fftssfft article. To answer your questions: 1) Yes, there are very rare cases where a word can always be in lower case in English. The examples I have in mind are things that are normally treated as proper nouns, but which the entity in question has stated an explicit preference against capitalization. There is a writer named bell hooks, for example, who insists her name be written without capitals. This is decidedly not the case with the dandelion warriors! The second case would maybe be for transliteration of a language into English using a system in which capital and lowercase letters have some bearing on pronunciation. I can't think of any examples of this in the real world, but it could be a possibility. In the case of ffssfft, though, there are no capitals, so I doubt that's the situation. Rather, I'd just treat the word as a common noun, much like dog or duck, and capitalize it when it comes at the beginning of a sentence. Or does "Castaways of Endor" leave it uncapitalized even when it begins a sentence? If it does, we should follow its precedent...


 * As for the coloration of the warriors, I just checked the VHS version of the episode, and it, too, depicts them as blue-stemmed. What you can do is say they were blue in the article, but indicate the children's book disparity in the BTS, or else (my preferred solution), say that some were blue and some were green and assume that both sources are perfectly canonical depictions of dandelion warriors. Have fun with the article, and let me know if you have any more questions! ~ Savage BOB sig.png 22:46, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Narrowing down the dating of "Star Tours: The Adventures Continue"
Hey Savage. Thanks to one of Weedle McHairybug's recent edits, I have new information on the exact dating of Star Tours: The Adventures Continue. As you can hear on 1:45 of this video, the droid G2-9T says "Uh, is anyone here travelling to Yavin 4? Home of the secret Rebel base? Oops! Home of the previously secret rebel base..." Since the Rebels recovered the key to the Great Temple in the Yavin Vassilika in 1 BBY, then it means that the events of Star Tours II must take place between 1 and 0 BBY. I thought you might find that interesting. Cheers. --LelalMekha (talk) 22:28, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, interesting find! I think RX-24 may need a minor update. Thanks! ~ Savage BOB sig.png 13:21, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * However, I see that the dating of 1 BBY for the events pf Underworld: The Yavin Vassilika is currently unsourced, so we may have to take it with a grain of salt. Do you know where that dating comes from? --LelalMekha (talk) 13:25, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I had an edit conflict asking you that same thing! The New Essential Chronology is silent on the date of the founding. It may be speculation. Maybe I can start a KB thread about it. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 13:26, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, done: Forum:KB:Establishing the Rebel base on Yavin 4. ~ Savage BOB sig.png 13:31, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good. On my part, I shall read Star Wars: Underworld again and see if I can dig up any clues. I do remember the comic book original introduction saying that "Star Wars: Underworld takes place shortly before Episode IV." However, "shortly before" does not help much... --LelalMekha (talk) 13:32, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I was following this page and didn't know it... For the record, since Star Tours 2 was narrowed down to 2 BBY-0 BBY, I have noted that since Ackbar appears as a Rebel agent, the ride must take place after his rescue, which has been dated at 1 BBY. Granted, there are other anachronisms in the ride -- battles involving lots of separatist ships, TF droid ships over Naboo, and an earlier battle on Hoth -- but Ackbar's inclusion is something to consider. But I'll also say that I thought Underworld was even closer to ANH, in 0 BBY. --JMM (talk) 13:53, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I just found out that has Underworld happening in 1 BBY. --LelalMekha (talk) 13:56, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!
Hiya Savage, thanks for the kind words you left on my talk page regarding the Gree article. I have been trying quite hard with my recent work to source my stuff as much as I can. Out of curiousity though, which parts need more sourcing on the Gree article? Always on the lookout for new info or ways to better some of the pages I have been working on like Gree or Hutts so would appreciate any words on what needs to be done more :) Darth Batrus (talk) 17:28, January 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries mate :) I hadn't updated in a while so kind of forgot some of the stuff I put so was worried I had left something unsourced heh. Kind of wish I had some screenshots but alas no. The only one I saw is the hologram of Operator IX AI :-/ But thanks again for the praise man, appreciate it. Darth Batrus (talk) 19:06, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Ob Khaddor in "Chronicles"
Hi SavageBob. If I remember correctly, you own a copy of Star Wars Chronicles: The Prequels, right? I'm currently expanding Sheltay Retrac as much as I can, and I'd like to know in what respect' and through which words'' the book "hints" that Ob Khaddor may have been her husband? I'm puzzled as to how a reference book may just "hint" rather than state. Additionally, Khaddor only died with the destruction of Alderaan. Therefore, if he was her father, Winter definitely was not an orphan. --LelalMekha (talk) 00:29, January 18, 2013 (UTC)