Talk:Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Deleted content
Are characters and locations from the deleted content canon? For example, can we assume that M4-78 the droid planet, the HK droid factory on Telos, and Lonna Vash's Padawan Kaah Ohtok actually existed? - Sikon 11:24, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so... If it wasn't officially released, it can't be canon. --200.165.193.133 03:31, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Quit deleting Dezanti Zhug, he is not fanon! Go to Dxun, he is the leader of the 3 Duros whose ship is shot down by Tobin, and he attacks you!JustinGann 21:34, 25 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * He's not fanon, but I see no reason to separate him from the other Zhugs. - Sikon [ Talk ] 03:16, 26 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Because, its a list of all New Characters, including every single named character in the game. Two of the Zhug brothers are given names.  Should all Mandalorians be listed just as "Mandalorians" under new characters, rather than their individual names?  "Zhug brothers" is not a new character, it is an organization--they are not all really brothers.

I agree... I would delete anything that has not been officially published in books, games, etc... Even thought there is cut content, they should not be treated as cannon. There concept at the end can change. There may be other reasons why the cut content was removed. You never know, their whole concept could change drasticaly before they are published; therefore they should not be cannon... 

M4-78 is considered canon because it was mentioned in Medstar: Intermezzo. However, the events on M4-78 that were cut from the game cannot be considered canon. Ace Venom 22:26, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

^^^^ I also believe that if M4-78 is not mentioned in the Star War's EU databank, they should not be considered canon. The Star Wars EU databank is monitored by Lucas, and he only recognizes very few stories as cannon. Therefore, any cut content is not cannon until Lucas recognizes them in his EU Databank... Until you read otherwise, I would not post anything that is not from the EU Databank...


 * The last I checked, the EU databank didn't have everything. Are you saying characters such as Zekk shouldn't be considered canon just because they aren't in the EU databank?  Sorry, but that's a poor argument.  I pretty much pointed out where M4-78 was referenced in canon. Ace Venom 22:40, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

At the moment, Zekk doesn't have any stories. He is only a supporting character. Plus Zekk was in the movies, so he is considered a Star Wars species. He doesn't need to be recognized by EU only by the main Star Wars Database.. M4-78 is EU, but it has not been recognized by the EU Database... 
 * There are a great many supporting characters in the Databank. And besides, Zekk is a major character in the Dark Nest Trilogy. Face facts, the Databank is woefully incomplete, but the info it does have on there is canon. That doesn't mean any info not yet on there is not canon. Before they added General Grievous, was he not canon, just because he hadn't been added at that point? No. - Kwenn 22:52, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I dissagree.... Until Lucas makes it official, by posting it up at the EU Databank, I would not consider it cannon. 
 * But that's a minor quibble only. Until we are actually told M4-78 is canon, it's best to assume it is. Ace Venom 22:56, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * In case you hadn't noticed, the Databank is not maintained by Lucas himself. He's not that devoted to his Saga - Kwenn 22:57, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

It is not edited by Lucas, but he has the final say about what goes up on the Databank. Mara Jade was not recognized for many years. Lucas decided to make Mara EU Cannon, for her popularity and stories grew. M4-78 has not been recognized. Second, assumptions are from nieve thinking. Assumptions will only get you into trouble, Facts are facts... Until Lucas places them in the EU Databank, or make some statement about them, I would not consider them canon. Even though there are books on extensive EU characters, I would not consider them canon until Lucas makes them cannon. He is very biased and protective about his Star Wars universe... Don't make assumptions... 
 * It's you who are making assumptions. Lucas does not regulate the Databank - it's added by the site webmasters, with content vetoed by Lucas Licensing - not the man himself. Trust me on this one; Lucas does not get that involved in the Saga. And have you noticed there are NO KotOR II entries on the Databank? Does that mean the entire game is non-canon? Or how about Rogue Squadron? And none of the film battles are on there either. Is the Battle of Yavin not canon now? - Kwenn 23:06, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Lucas does regulate the EU Databank. KotOR II has not been recognized, for there have been inside issues and politics about the series. There has been no official word as to the state of the KotOR Series. It is a well known factor that Lucas regulates what makes up Star Wars... Very well known... M4-78 is not in KotOR II. It was cut and remains on the cutting room floor. It is nothing! 
 * Lucas is a movie writer and director. He is NOT a webmaster, and he does not have to veto every element of the Saga. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. And yes, KotOR II has been recognised, because for one thing, it's in the New Essential Chronology. You're deluded - Kwenn 23:13, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I can see that this debat is going no where... I would be very careful to tread on this issue. M4-78 is not cannon... Period... Please Note: I have read several EU books, and I don't consider them as cannon. Until they are recognized, they are just simple Star Wars stories that hold no weight to Lucas's vision of Star Wars... Therefore, they are not cannon... Period..
 * They are not canon from your point of view. But I agree, this will get us nowhere. However, please abide by the view of canon taken by the majority while posting on this Wiki; which is, anything that doesn't contradict the movies is canon - Kwenn 23:19, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Anything that is not recognized by the creator of Star Wars is not cannon. I would not make assumptions it shows the lack of logic...
 * I'm not making assumptions; that's the official canon policy adopted by LucasFilm, and also adopted by this site. You may not agree, but again, please abide by it over your own biased opinions - Kwenn 23:23, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Get over it man! It is what it is... All the Cut Content in this game is not Cannon... 
 * Possibly. But wait a minute....information from cut scenes from all three prequel movies is in the Databank, so surely you must consider that canon? On second thoughts, don't answer that. Just leave it, kid, it's not worth it - Kwenn 23:26, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * Please scroll up. I really don't care about the cut material in the game in this case.  M4-78 is canon because it was mentioned in Medstar: Intermezzo.  I already mentioned this.  I figure any more debate here will yield nothing else. Ace Venom 23:41, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

At the moment, I am doing research on what Lucas Films considers cannon. I am looking up articles, statement, etc... Until we have a definitive answer, it would be unwise to consider any of the cut content as cannon... I will post my findings either way, and we will continue the debate.. I think we all need solid facts about what Lucas considers cannon...

Here is an intresting find, and I think it is connected to this site as well: http://www.answers.com/topic/star-wars-canon It would apear that games are considered N-Canon... Therefore, KotOR II is not Canon at all... It also states references, which I will hit the library and find. G-Canon is absolute cannon. Only the various forms of the movies are considered absolute cannon. If this is the case, and since the cut content has not been in movies or has been completed, it is all considered non-canon. It says game stats, and anything that contridicts the Star Wars films. 'True Sith' is a contridiction to the films and foundation of STar Wars... They are mentioned in the KotOR series... Therefore, they are not cannon...
 * Just a quick nitpick: answers.com is a mirror of Wikipedia. It is no more an official source than this wiki. Besides, that article refers to games as being generally C-canon, with the exception of gameplay mechanics -LtNOWIS 01:44, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * You want proof? Right: Holocron continuity database questions on the Official Site. Read the last two pages. For reference, 'Tasty Tate' is Leland Chee, Database Content Administrator, Lucas Licensing, and basically the authority on canon and continuity issues - Kwenn 09:55, 6 Jan 2006 (UTC)

What is intresting it that this debate is about "Cut Content'... I have to submit that games are considered C-Cannon... N-Connon covers game stats... Now, M4-78 is mentioned in a magazine. There is question about if it is cannon or not... After heavy debate, I can only say that it is inconclusive. However, it is very clear that the other 'Cut Content' is not cannon. Since the current state of the 'Cut Content' is on the cutting room floor, there can not be anything to support it as cannon. If the 'Cut Content' was built in game, and was apart of the final product, then it would be considered C-Cannon. Since this is not the case, the 'Cut Content' "can not" be considered cannon in it's current condition. In order for the 'Cut Content' to be considered cannon, it has to meet the following: "It must be a 'completed piece', which belongs to a type of media: Movies, Games, Books, etc. If the 'Cut Content' was apart of the game, and was not deleted, then it would be considered cannon. 


 * I just want to point out that the "cut content" in KotoR2 primarily isn't content left out due to a change of design. The vast majority of it was cut due to the fact that the game was rushed through development so that it could be finished in under a year. The wikipedia entry explains it in a bit more detail and there's hundreds of threads on the Obsidian Entertainment forum about it. Cut content should be put in articles as "potential canon" imho such as in the background sections of their specific character/world articles. Which it seems has been done on quite a few of the characters already. --Cory--

You said something that I do agree with... If the 'Cut Content' is put on the page, it should be put under a heading that says "Potential Cannon"... Yes, I can agree with this. However, I would put an explination about why it is considered 'Potential Cannon'. -Or, 'Unofficial (Fan) Cannon'... As long as it is not taken or labled as 'Absolute Cannon', I can see this as a resolution to this problem. When it becomes 'Official Cannon', the header can be removed... I would bot mention anything about the 'Restoration Teams', for they do not hold a licsence for this game. There could be legal matters involved...

Is it me, or is  a Supershadow freak or what? User:RushinSundaws 8:08, 27 February 2006


 * It's just you

Revan's Quest
Correct me if I'm wront, but as far as I know it has never been said that Revan disappeared to fight the Sith Empire. This would also be kind of strange, since if you choose to tell the game that it's predecessor ended with a Dark Side victory (which is possible with the dialogues at the beginning) this would make no sense at all. Above all: the stuff that Kreia was talking about, that "unknown threat" cannot be the Sith Empire, simply because everyone knows they are around. If you want my opinion, Revan set out to look for the Yuuzhan Vong. Several hints to the Yuuzhan Vong can be found in the game, Revan knows of these hints, and to me this is the most logical assumption. Any thoughts on this one? Tulon 16:45, 23 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Wasn't there an even older Sith Empire that was lost? also what hints? i didn't notice any Hopefuly the next game (are they making one?) will be about where Revan went, and you'll be able to play as both Revan and The Exile. Tyler [no account yet]


 * No, Revan went looking for the First Sith Empire (the one of Naga Sadow and Tulak Hord etc.) And it does still make sense if Revan fell to the dark-side. He'd want to remove the First Sith Empire as a threat to his Sith EMpire for a start. If you play the game through properly and pay attention it all makes sense. Jasca Ducato 14:46, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I like the Vong theory, as we may suppose that Canderous had a run-in with a Vong scout-ship, but Revan did go after the "Old Sith." He perceived it a great threat. That's actually the reason he attacked the Old Republic. He didn't see them as strong enough to ward off such an immense threat, and wanted to unite them under a strong Sith banner. He didn't want the destruction of the Republic, as evidenced by Malak giving the order to destroy Telos and Canderous convincing Carth that it was actually Malak instead of Revan.--PhilCarr 14:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Just a thought, I think that the video games listed here should be written in third person views of walkthroughs (canon version). Of course all second person (you kill a few sith and open a door) wouldn't be acceptable. This page would be written as a third person walkthrough of a male Jedi that follows the path to the light as a (insert canon Jedi type here, not sure if he was a guardian, consular, or sentinel). Sounds great to me.--PhilCarr 14:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Reven is canonicly Female not Male but I agree about the 3rd person views.--Master Plo Koon 14:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Revan is canonically male and canonically spelled "Revan". - Sikon [ Talk ] 18:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The Exile is female. That's probably what he meant.Darth Ceratis 02:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

New Version
I've been playing KOTOR II a lot, noticing bugs, and reading all this stuff about the deleted content, and an idea popped in mind. LucasArts is a little scared that there might not be a KOTOR III due to the bad reviews of KOTOR II because of everything that was deleted and bugged. My idea is: what if Obsidion went back, fixed the bugs, added the popular deleted content, and released a re-mastered and restored version of KOTOR II? It would definately boost sales and fans will grovel for a KOTOR III. Jedi Striker 16:57, 01 October 2006 (UTC)
 * LucasArts and Obsidian have both moved on from KOTOR II. I'd be in complete shock if anything else was done. And besides, Lucasarts had already turned down the idea of a Content patch. And LucasArts knows as well as anybody that releasing KOTOR III will be a hit no matter what they did or didn't do. Also, fans are groveling for KOTOR III anyway. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 21:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

How to refer to the Exile?
I read this article and noticed that in the "plot summary" section, the Exile is consistently referred to in third person plural. Shouldn't it be third person singular ("she", not "they"), being that the Exile is confirmed to canonically be female, or is it simply meant as a technical plot summary retelling the story of both the male and female storyline? I was just wondering; the article for Knights Of The Old Republic 1 refers to Revan as male, after all, following the canonical establishment. Mediatingmentor 13:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's cause no one has rewritten the plot summary to conform to the new information regarding the Exile's gender. --Imp 13:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Would it be okay for me to do so, then? --Mediatingmentor 13:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Why of course, this is a wiki after all! Welcome, by the way! I'll throw up some links that should prove informative on your talk page. --Imp 13:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The plot summaries were written by different people. This one was written by me, and frankly, I'd prefer it unchanged. It's an OOU article, and changing Exile's gender may give the person looking for game information the false impression that Exile's gender isn't customizable. I think the K1 plot summary should be changed to gender-neutral, too. - Sikon 14:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Exile and Handmaiden Training Scenes
Is it true that they practice with as little clothes as possible, or something to that effect? If so, can i have some pictures? I don't mean this as a pervert, this is the only thing keeping my mother from getting me this game.Thanks! Ciago92 16:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, you and Brianna basically fight in nothing but underwear. I don't have the game installed at the moment, though, so I can't post a picture. Try asking at WP:IR. - Sikon 05:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Image
I think the image of Peragus II should be brightened some. On my computer, it looks like a bunch of dark brown and black with some blue-green and a white box. Is there supposed to be more detail? Geekboy42 00:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

That's just your computer or internet connection. It looks fine to me. -Bredd13