Talk:Darth Nihilus

Species
Just what was/is Nihilus, species wise? Also, does he remind anybody else of the Ringwraiths from the Lord of the Rings? (Beings consumed by darkness so greatly that they have nearly lost physical form)

Lord Patrick 05:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * His species is never revealed. And yes, I suspect that's where Obsidian got their inspiration... they just added a clown mask. --Imperialles 10:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, there's clearly a human face under the mask on the intro picture of Sion, Nihilus and Visas. Although it's more brown and wrinkly than a normal human face, it appears. - Sikon 13:07, 5 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm just going to make it clear that Nihilus was HUMAN. Kreia says that he is no longer human. Which clearly means, he was at some point in his life, HUMAN. Redemption 02:13, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But what does 'no longer' mean? how can someone change their species?? :) In any case i added the "dark Side" category to define this, since he became a 'Forcial' entity. MoffRebus 13:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Redemption, Kreia never says he was no longer a human. She said he was no longer a man. Although you can "assume" man = male human, it may not. So, his race/species is still an unknown. Matadore 09:03, 20 May 2006 (EST)
 * Maybe he's not even a being anymore but the full embodiment of darkside evilstuff. -- Riffsyphon1024 11:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * So, if he's never said to be human, why does it say so in the article? Charlii 11:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good question. -- Riffsyphon1024 13:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe he's a human. Whenever you ask Visas what she saw when she looked upon him, depending on what you say, she replies with ,'I saw a man, nothing more.' If he was of another species, wouldn't she have gotten more specific? Just a thought. Warhobbe 01:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. "I saw a Duros, nothing more," really kind of interrupts the flow of the moment.SithPower 03:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I actually thought he was a Zabrak because of the horns it looks like he has.
 * Maybe it's just me, but his mask is reminiscent of a Kaleesh mask.IAmANerd 03:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Anyone think that Nhilius could be a Sith? (I know he's part of the faction but i'm talking the species) if you listne to Atris' Sith Holocrons and then listne to how he sounds they sound alike Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 14:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Dark Lord?
Darth Nihilus is listed in the Sith Masters category. Should Darth Nihilus be counted as the Dark Lord of the Sith? --User:SFH
 * I'm going to ditch the silly over-categorisation of the Sith anyway, so it doesn't matter. QuentinGeorge 22:29, 6 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, but is he counted among the Dark Lords? --User:SFH
 * I would say no, mainly because, no acutally i would say yes. mainly because, following canon Revan returned to the Jedi and so naturally Darth Traya would become DLS, but when Nihilus and Sion betrayed her one of them would have taken the title for themselves. Most likely being Nihilus! Jasca Ducato 10:00, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Is it why there is not a succession box at the end of the article? MoffRebus 02:01, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * After a long argument, it was determined that neither Darth Traya, Darth Sion nor Darth Nihilus were ever Dark Lord of the Sith. QuentinGeorge 02:07, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Then why the hell is KotOR II subtitled "The Sith Lords"????
 * Read the article on Sith Lord. It means a lot of things. -- SFH 02:31, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Well both of you would be wrong, they are Dark Lords, or at least Nihilus at most. They should be included, and it is also not up to either of you since it seems like instead of canon or reliable sources, you have posted opinions. Put them back in.
 * Well show me some Canon information that they were classed as Dark Lords. Nihilus's goals don't fit with the standard Dark Lord goals. Visas does refer to him as "milord" though. Phillowe88 14:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Kreia: "He is one of the Dark Lords that follows you" Pretty specific. They use Sith Lord and Dark Lord pretty interchangably in the KotOR games. Maybe after casting down Kreia, he and Sion granted both of themselves the title. I dunno, it doesn't really bother me. (Ulicus 16:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC))


 * I added a box for Kreia, Nihilus and Sion that says "Leader of the Sith." Until we get more info, that should be sufficient. Thoughts?SithPower 22:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed the info in the box, which make it (i guess) less possibly to be reverted by others. Darth Kevinmhk 03:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * In "Evil Never Dies" he is refered to as a Dark Lord of the Sith, though slightly indirect. Will anybody try to kill me if I change the article to reflect this? Charlii 13:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you kindly quote the relevant sentences? Darth Kevinmhk 12:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Many times the title of "the last Dark Lord" has been erroneously applied. First the Dark Lord Naga Sadow, vanquished by the Galactic Republic in the Great Hyperspace War 5,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, was thought to be the last. Then a thousand years later, the fallen Jedi Exar Kun was considered the last of these dark siders' twisted kind. Then Darth Nihilus... then Lord Kaan... then Darth Vader." So, basicly it could be read as he was erroneously called Dark Lord, but that is if you really hate the thought. Charlii 13:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I am open to suggestions, let more people voice their opinion :) ! Darth Kevinmhk 00:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If it actually says that, then put it. I don't have Hyperspace so I have to trust the rest of you.SithPower 02:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The Sith Triumvirate was a loose affiliation made up of three sects of what remained of the Sith Empire. It consisted of not only former Sith soldiers, Dark Jedi, Sith Apprentices, and Sith Masters, but even Sith Lords. All of these sects came under the influence of the three strongest Sith Lords. They, becoming the three leaders of the now combined forces, would be recognized as somewhat co-Dark Lords of the Sith. After Nihilus and Sion banished Traya, then the two of them became co-equals together... but only for a short time. Their ideals not matching each other, they soon went their seperate ways. After this, the Triumvirate no longer existed and the underlings followed who they wished. In this sense, they then became the Dark Lord of the Sith over their followers.--Master Dakari 02:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Mandalorian prisoner?
Where did it say he was a prisoner of the Mandalorians? I thought he wasn't heard of until after Malachor V... (I guess I need a little light shed into this backstory for further clarification, help sort out other bits of rumors about his backstory) DAWUSS 13:53, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't get this prisoner reference either. Someone care to explain? --Fade 19:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It is never mentioned that he is a prisoner of the Mandalorians, Kriea, while talking to the Exile describes how Darth Nihilus fled his prison (the planet Malachor V itself). Chances are he was a Jedi that fought with Revan & Malak during the Jedi Civil War but got left behind on Malachor V after the battle for some reason, maybe to look after the Trayus Academy. Being a Sith he betrayed his order and left the planet. Jasca Ducato 17:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Kreia tells the Exile that Nihilus "is of that place" (Malachor V). That doesn't mean he was some Mandalorian prisioner. All of that is pure speculation, and I think it should be taken out of the Wiki "bio" until more valid information is available on the origins of Darth Nihilus. Unless you like giving out false information. Matadore 09:13, 20 May 2006 (EST)

Force Consuming?
What does it mean when he "Consumes the Force"? I don't get it. Cato Neimoidia 02:51, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it means he drains the midi-chlorians from a living thing, but I'm not sure. -- SFH 02:52, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

How did he get into this situation where he has to Feed of people though, he started as a human, why the change?
 * He is a "wound" in the Force, like Kreia and the Exile. He consumes the Force and living things so that he can "sustain" his existance. He is drawn to Force-sensatives, according to Visas Marr. But he can feed off life itself, as Colonel Tobin explains when you encounter him on the Ravenger. It has nothing to do with midi-chlorians. Matadore 09:22, 20 May 2006 (EST)
 * Well what does it mean to "consume"? Does it mean to put into mouth and swallow or what? -- Cato Neimoidia 19:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He is a "wound" in the Force, like Kreia and the Exile. Don't generalize. Not to Kreia, at least. - Sikon [ Talk ] 00:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He "consumes" it like one consumes energy or fuel. If you set wood on fire, the fire will "consume" the wood and eventually there'll only be ash left. Nihilus has to use the Force in a similar fashion to keep himself 'alive', except when he's done, not even ashes remain - the Force he consumed is just *gone*. There's nothing left and if he had been allowed to continue on uninterrupted, he'd eventually have consumed the entirety of life and the Force leaving himself until last. Then there would be nothing at all. Hence 'Nihilus'.(Ulicus 16:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC))

I like the points you made, Ulicus. I always pictured him as like a "black hole" in the Force; consuming it so completely similar to the way a black hole consumes light. Also, Kreia tells you that he, similar to Sion, is already dead. It is only a matter of time until he, too, falls. He consumes the Force in order to sustain his existence. He learned to technique of of Hunger (Force consumtion), but did not master it. Instead, it mastered him. He is no longer the person he once was. The living being he used to be is long gone. All that exists now is the dead physical body and the insatiable, animal appetite that is driven by the Dark Side. I'm not even sure Nihilus even knows what he is doing most of the time. Like Kreia says, "I kow of them, yes. And how much like beasts they have become." And I think that fits perfectly to describe Nihilus.--Master Dakari 02:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber Form

 * Forgive me, i have not yet played KOTOR2... But i got the impression that the seven forms of lightsaber combat was introduced and usable in KOTOR2. So I assume player can determine Nihilus' combat form by observing his in-game style. Then why there is no reference in the article despite he used Malak's style? Thx! Darth Kevinmhk 02:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The seven styles are only implemented as gameplay mechanics and have no visual differences. - Sikon [ Talk ] 14:25, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 06:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The statement in the "Behind the Scenes" section of Nihilus's bio that says that he uses the same lightsaber form as Darth Malak is 100% speculation. The 7 lightsaber forms are presented in KOTOR II, and some do offer a few different animations (also your level and improved power attack, flurry, and critical hit offer new animations as well), but Nihilus's lightsaber form is just the basic attacks. That's why it looks similar to Malak's form... because in KOTOR, the only form was the basic form. Matadore 09:30, 20 May 2006 (EST)
 * Actually because Nihilus and Malak use the same base model and animations, they use the same saber form. :P --Redemption 00:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity is it possible to get the animations of Nihilus's lightsaber form to use for your character? Also, is it just me, or does his lightsaber style slightly modified from malak's style to the point where it looks like a lot like sidious's lightsaber style from the film as both styles incorporate fancy lightsaber handling similiar to Makashi and acrobatics sometimes?-Darth Necros

Profile Pic

 * Alright, in order to avoid further edit wars, let's settle it here: The Awesome Promo or The Ingame Cap Screen? I like the Promo much more. Darth Kevinmhk 07:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I prefer the promo, and I think headshots are better for profile pictures anyway. - Lord Hydronium 08:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The "Ingame" image is way too dark, and a PNG. - Sikon [ Talk ] 08:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Which can always be fixed. Anyway, I didn't change the image to the in-game shot (despite that I uploaded it) so can't blame me for this one. Doesn't really make a difference in my opinion which one. --Redemption 20:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This is it? The response is much poor than I expected! Darth Kevinmhk 02:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Promo. It is far more professional.--Sentry 03:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * How about this one?

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3817/tehsith2if.jpg

It's a good screenshot IMO, and it's more physically descriptive. --Sauron18 19:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC) --Redemption 20:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * God no. Telos is probably the worst place to be to take screenshots (shaders are awful there). Too much contrast also in that one. Best to keep him on the Ravager in an appropiate setting. Which is why I always station Visas at her meditation chamber, Mira on Nar Shaddaa, Kreia on Malachor, and Sion on Korriban. Besides, promotional gets first dibs on infoboxes. --Redemption 19:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's the best lighted screenshot, and it's more physically descriptive than the promos. That's all I'm saying. --Sauron18 20:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, its horribly lighted. There is such thing as too much light. Nevertheless, promo stays. (unless an overwhelming majority wants this one instead) --Redemption 20:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I just feel like the promo is too confining, claustrophobic, only a picture of their face, and I feel the whole upper body always makes for a better picture, like Traya and Sion. --Sauron18 20:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There isn't any need to show more of Nihilus' upperbody. It's all just black robe.
 * On the contrary, despite his clothes being all black, they are not just a robe that covers arms, legs and everything, which is how he is most commonly portrayed in various art pieces. An in-game screen capture really shows his features more prominently as well as his attire. --Sauron18 20:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * My vote stays on the Promo. Darth Kevinmhk 03:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We have Traya's upper body for the reason that we never see her face and shes pretty small. We look at Sion's upper body because it "looks like he slept with a bunch of vibroblades".  Whats the first thing you look at when you see Nihilus?  His face.  We dont say "OOOOOOO, look at that cool black robe, like all the other Sith have!"  Also, he is pretty big.
 * How about this or this ? --Sauron18 23:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I myself prefer the second btw, but I wanted to know what you think. --Sauron18 00:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that from the startup screen? It looks like the current one but without the lightsaber. I vote to keep the one we have. Charlii 11:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Both of them are great pictures, but I prefer the current one too. If the article is long enough, maybe we could add more pics into it. Darth Kevinmhk 15:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Death
i do not think the fact that he didnt dissapear is a glitch. It is probably a last minute change because a sith dont deserve to dissapear. And the fact that you can tell visas to take his mask if he dissapeared i dont think you could take his mask. Ralok 20:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC) Dev Notes: {There is a final death rattle sound in Nihilus' voice, then it dissolves into a black cloud.}
 * No, it's a glitch. One I've never gotten. Visas takes the mask before he disappears.

Speculation
Just how much speculation should be allowed into the BTS section? Can't people use forum boards for that? Charlii 09:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Consensus track or Senate Hall suits to house your question better. Darth Kevinmhk 11:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think he's talking specifically about this page. There does seem to be too much in the BtS section - it looks about as big as the article itself - Kwenn 11:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, because we know next to nothing about the truth of the canonical Nihilus... so I think a little more bts in this case is acceptable. Darth Kevinmhk 02:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Darth Nihilus Master
According the the Star Wars New Essential Chronology Guide and the Star Wars Ultimate Visual Dictionary, Darth Nihilus is considered to be the Master over Darth Sion after they overthrow Kreia. So shouldnt that be put in both Nihilus' and Sion's articles? Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but I am new to wikia stuff so I am just making sure the true Canon is put in the articles. Scyrone
 * Exact quote, please? - Sikon [ Talk ] 19:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The NEC doesn't even say that they overthrew Traya, and it would give a casual reader the (incorrect) idea that Sion was the one in charge, as he is the only one that's mentioned twice and has a picture in the book. Charlii 20:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, my mistake, it says DIRECTLY from the Star Wars Ultimate Visual Guide, "Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, is the Sith apprentice to Darth Nihilus. His body parts are held together by sheer will and hatred."  There.  Thats exactly what it says, in italics, under a round edged picture of his face in the SWUVG.  You might not think its true, but to prove it you can go to your local library or Barnes and Noble and check it out for yourself (page 27).
 * Of course, right besides the picture of Atris which is labelled "Handmaiden" :P--Sauron18 02:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're trying to say, but canon is canon. If the above qoute is correct, then that fact should be in the article. Charlii 05:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes I know, I'm just saying that this particular source isn't always sparkly and perfect, and if there are other canon sources which contradict them, then we should go with them. I'm just saying, since that Atris thing.....well it's slightly preocupying. Oh and it does say that btw.--Sauron18 06:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am just trying to fight for true canon, I hate it when people come and make all these assumptions about Star Wars even though true canon is right in front of them (happens in a few websites I have joined excluding this one)
 * Was there ever anything in other sources against them being master and apprentice in some way?--Sauron18 00:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really, people might make that asumtion based on the scene in KotoRII when they throw out Traya (he is the only one to talk, well Nihilus doesn't talk at all...) and the NEC when he is the only one with a picture and a description of his career, but no facts. There is nothing to override the statement in the Ultimate Visual Guide. Charlii 14:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Great, then we're good to go with it.:)--Sauron18 20:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if this overrides that statement, but here is a line that Kreia says if you ask her about Visas. "She serves one of the greatest of the Sith, she is the most trusted... and only apprentice. Yet you spare her. Why?" Now, from this it looks like the rule of two is indeed in place, and Visas is Nihilus's apprentice, not Sion. Another possible explanation for the book calling Sion Nihilus's apprentice is that maybe its a typo. Typos happen, just like in the picture of Atris, next to Sion's picture, which says she is the Handmaiden. Is it possible that the line was meant to read: "Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, is the Sith apprentice to Darth Traya. His body parts are held together by sheer will and hatred." ?I have no intention of sparking an argument, but the statement of Sion being Nihilus's apprentice just seems to conflict with all of the evidence in the game that says he isn't.

Too Many Quotes
Am I the only one who feels like he has too many quotes in the first part of the article? --Sauron18 15:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Sith Assassin?
Was Nihilus an assassin before becoming a Sith Lord? We know Sion was, and in Chronicles of the Old Republic it says Kreia trained Sith Assassins, so unless there is evidecne against it I'd say that's implying that Nihilus was one of these guys who got "promoted" or something. --Sauron18 15:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We know Sion was? - Sikon [ Talk ] 15:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it says on his entry. --Sauron18 15:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Which, sadly, doesnt really mean he is one. Darth Kevinmhk 02:52, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably. He ,appareantly, trained Visas in the ways of the Sith assassin, seeing as she carefully disabled the crew of the Ebon Hawk, without the Exile being alerted. She'd have to pick it up from somewhere - and I doubt they had any 'Assassin/Sith training centers' on Katarr. Warhobbe 04:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well Traya trained Sith Assassins, so this is very probably what Nihilus was. --Sauron18 05:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * SPECULATIOOON!!! - Sikon [ Talk ] 05:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Sith Assassin" is a in-game title that I woudn't place too much weight in anyhow... Charlii 07:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's not so much speculation as it is conjecture, but it is known that Traya trained Sith Assasins after going to Malachor. Sion was an assassin, and it would seem Nihilus would have to be one to be considered as trained by Traya.--Sauron18 08:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

How do you say his name?
I have always wondered how to say it? Bis6 22:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC}
 * I believe it would be pronounced "Ni'hil·is" -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 03:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Species
Anyone think he may be a Sith (species) due to the way he talks sounding Just like the Holocorn dialogue. And that perhaps the diologue is not translated beaus the Sith Language is not a known language in the galaxy. Just like the girl in KOTOR I who spoke Gibberish or the Rakata Droid on Dantooine? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 21:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Speculations about anyone being a Sith are usually frowned upon. The little girl who stowawayed the Ebon Hawk spoke an incorrect version of Mandalorian which you, as the player, cannot understand. Not understanding the Rakatan droid on Dantooine is related to gameplay. Notice that later, on Rakata Prime, you understand Rakatan which is the same language the droid used. - TopAce 20:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't that latent empathy, or something like that? You can understand aliens with a Force presence, but not automatons? (The utility droid's warbling isn't exactly translated either, though you can guess fairly accurately at its meaning.) Custodes 09:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Master during KOTOR 2
I'm going to add a statement that says that he and sion went their separate ways before the shadow war in KOTOR 2. It seems pretty evident to me, from comments by Visas and Kreia, that they were both separate during this time. says in the NEC that Sion was apprentice under Nihilus, it's quite possible that Sion recieved tutoring under Nihilus for a time, but without any hard proof to back up this statement, at least during the shadow war they were not working together. if you have a problem with this, tell me, please. I'll revert it is you have proof i am wrong.Gotoisevil

Beneath the Mask
Although I found it somewhat frustrating that Nihilus' physical face was not shown in the game, I find even more frustrating that a clear verbal description wasn't given. Does anybody have a clear description about any of his physical qualities (Besides Visas' vauge answer to what she saw behind Nihilus' mask on the Ravager)?-Nickbuffington 7:9 AM 9/23/06