Talk:Vitiate

Intro
(Sith my ride&#39;s Return 00:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC))I thought sadow was killed by Freedon Nadd. Actually, Naga Sadow's death by Freedon Nadd is only mentioned, but it was never depicted, so anything could happen. However, I hope it isn't Sadow. To me, he's the idiot that got the Sith Empire destroyed in the first place. -- Michaeldsuarez  ( Activate Holocron ) 18:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC) EDIT: Apparantly, the book mentions different sources saying different things about Nadd's learning of the Dark Side. One of which is an apprenticeship to the spirit of Sadow. Hmm, if Sadow somehow continued his existence past this, could he have done a Palpatine, and resurrected into new bodies? VT-16 21:05, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * He was. And I saw nothing in the source leading me to believe it's Naga Sadow. I think I'll removed that bit soon.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 00:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's obviously Ludo Kressh. Who was the reigning Dark Lord when Sadow returned from Republic space? Kressh. Who fled from Korriban with his entire army at the conclusion of the battle? Kressh. 71.61.97.8 02:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * http://pc.ign.com/articles/922/922656p1.html seems to pretty much confirm that it is Naga Sadow. Especially "Sadow and many other Dark Lords went into hiding beyond the boundaries of known space.", and later, "With his fleets ready and his fifth columnists in place in the Outer Rim, Sadow finally launched his attack." 07:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The article does say that Sadow is the emperor. I don't understand how this will fit, since Freedon Nadd did kill him. It seems that there's a doppleganger involved. My guess is that Nadd killed Sadow, and a leading Dark Lord of the True Sith took the title of emperor and used Sadow's name to scare the Jedi and the Republic. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 11:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It says even more clearly that the Sith Emperor is indeed Sadow here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6199706&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;1 Jediphile 01:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This info appears only in IGN's article. On the official site there is no indication of him being Naga Sadow. I think that IGN messed up things a bit. QuiGonJinn  (Comlink)Quigonheadshot.jpg
 * To Grand Moff Tranner: there are a number of ways he could have eluded death, Palpatine's body-swapping and old-fashioned cyborgism are two alternatives that come to mind. If he did indeed die, perhaps a clone? Still, my guess is as good as yours. We'll just have to see whether this was a mistake by IGN or indeed the truth. Would be really cool if it really was Sadow, though. 14:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparantly Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force now all but severs any connection Nadd had to Sadow himself, furthering the "maybe he did live" hints from the NEC. I guess since the game was being worked on from 2005 and that book was made in late 2007, it was a hint at his continued existence.

Does Naga Sadow's tomb on Korriban actually have a sarcophagus anywhere (KOTOR I)? I've never thought about it till now, so I don't know, but I can't remember one. All I remember being in the final chamber is the star map and the statue with the ceremonial sabre, and you'd expect it to be there. Even if there is no sarcophagus it wouldn't be proof, but it could have been a hint left by the game designers. If I'm right, then Naga Sadow's tomb is the only one in both games without an actual body. Jon Ralen 02:19, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Checked the actual Naga Sadow page, and it says he survived, went to Yavin IV hoping to form a new base, and eventually put himself in hibernation. So nothing to stop him having one last crack at the galaxy before retreating to Yavin IV, but nothing to confirm it yet either. Jon Ralen 02:31, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Your dates are mixed up. He survives the Great Sith War, and flees to Yavin. Not the one in this game, which takes place 1,400 years later. VT-16 08:31, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

You're right, I did get a timeline wrong, but not the which war timeline. I forgot about Freedon Nadd killing him/his spirit well before KOTOR I, let alone SWTOR, even though that was only mentioned 3 or 4 times in the discussion. Bad day for me, never mind :) Jon Ralen 08:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

darth andeddu
can he be darth andeddu??

andeddu lived in an unknown era and it is speculated that he may can be the first darth: who means in rakata triumph over the death

DARK LORD IN THE SITH
should he really have his name over every sith between his downfall and rise again, if he was in exile then he wasnt the dark lord of the sith, it should be removed untill more is revealed. Here's why it could be Naga Sadow: the ancient Sith culture is similar to ancient Egypt in many ways. Who says the Sith don't make tombs to themselves before they die, just like the Egyptians do! Also, Kressh can't be the Sith Emperor because his corpse is found in the Secret Tomb on Korriban in KOTOR II! Anyway. This Sith Emperor is supposed to be survivor from the Old Sith Empire and thus it is impossible for him to give up only titile which he and every sith before and after him wanted most of all. Hope that now I am clear an appologize for long text.--ScorpiO 05:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There wasn't any downfall, he just went into hiding with his loyal Sith, so he was their leader as stated in the sucession box. QuiGonJinn Always remember, your focus determines your reality.Qui-Gon negtc.jpg 18:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * SO there was a downfull, if he went into hiding he went into exile with the end of the sith empire. Alex1991 15:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and by the way, sign your posts with four tildes. QuiGonJinn Always remember, your focus determines your reality.Qui-Gon negtc.jpg 18:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to burst your bubble, but Naga Sadow was killed by Freedon Nadd on Yavin IV. Therefore Lord Sadow cannot be the Sith Emperor. It seems the Sith Emperor was Lord Sadow's contemporary, who took over after Naga Sadow was forced to flee from the Republic onslaught.Gorthuar 12:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't understand why everyone wants Naga Sadow to live for. He's dead. D-E-D. Dead :). -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 14:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. The more recent sources both downplay his fate as well as any direct connection he may have had with Nadd's tutoring. It's even unclear whether Nadd ever killed him or not, according to the JvS:TEGTTF and I think the NEC also doesn't say that Nadd actually killed him. Since the game has been in development for many years, it's possible these retcons were put in place to decrease the continuity problems if Sadow was to return as this Emperor figure. VT-16 15:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do you think that Emperor must be somebody known? There were lot of Sith lords in the Council in the end of the old empire. Is not it more likely that one from them survived and fled the known space where he silently prepared a revange?--ScorpiO 15:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but if the IGN article was correct, it was Sadow himself. I'm just hoping this wasn't a mistake on their part. VT-16 15:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * With the "quality" of IGN's articles, your hopes equate to hoping for a miracle, I'm afraid. I actually expect they made an error. Gorthuar 19:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I just read the IGN article and OH MY GOD. I hope it is an error, not only for Sadow as emperor but for his dark council as well. 12 dark lords? WTF another mess in this title?--ScorpiO 20:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the TOR website is responsible for that last thing. In the Sith Empire's description here http://www.swtor.com/info/story/sith-empire there is a link labeled "Dark Lords". It leads to an article on *Sith* Lords, rather then on Dark Lords of the Sith. Currently I fervently hope it's an error on part of the game developer, which will be corrected in the final product. Gorthuar 20:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Having more than one Dark Lord of the Sith here won't be much of a continuity problem, since the Brotherhood of Darkness had more than one person with the title. -MPK 21:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No it would be a very big problem. It is cleary stated that it was a sole title, an unic one. Until the JvS:tEGttF there was only one dark lord at the time until Kaan. JvS:tEGttF stated that both ulic and exar and revan with malak were both DLotS. But JvS:tEGttF is very hmm unclear in it because it calls DLotS even Bandon Traya and Sion. I Think that 12 DLOTS is a big ERROR because emperor is from the old sith empire and there was only one dark lord, only one emperor and not many. If it is correct it will be very big MESS and we would have source whith oposite info. --ScorpiO 21:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Really, do you have to abbreviate everything? It's getting harder and harder to understand you. -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 21:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I guess you are right so I am sorry. Here is "Extended Edition". So, in my opinion the issue with more than one Dark Lord at the same time would be a very very big problem. The title of Dark Lord of the Sith was only for the ruler of the sith, true enbodiment of the dark side and thus there could be only one dark lord at the time. When ruler grows weak, another must succed him. This is the way of the Sith. And it was that way until the fool Kaan gave this unic title to all of his Sith Lords. But until this pervertion there allways was only one dark lord. (of course we have a problem with Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force. In this book there is stated (and not once) that Kun and Qel-Droma were both Dark Lords at the same time (the same with Revan and Malak). Alright, we can argue that this book is very unclear in the naming of Dark Lords because there is also stated that Darth Bandon,Traya and Sion were all Dark Lords as well.
 * Sorry, but the Rule of Two began its practice with Darth Bane, although it was originally convinced by Darth Revan. -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 22:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but I missed your point. It is true that Bane used Revan philosophy for creation of his Rule of Two but why is it important? My point has nothing to do with Rule of Two. Revan himself wrote that sith must be ruled by one individual not by many. Anyway Revan was not even the part of the original Empire and was enemy of this Sith emperor.--ScorpiO 05:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Revan wasnt an enamy of this sith emeror when he was dark lord of the sith, this only happened after he was reddemed and went to hunt them down or what ever he went to do, i agree, the sith empror cant of been the dark lord of the sith as during his exile many other held the title, maybe there should be another succsession 'leader of the sith empire in exile, dark lord of the sith in exile, leader of the sith empire, head of the 'true sith', during this time scale he ruled the exiled with but he wasnt actually the dark lord of the sith. Alexsau1991 22:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Except the Emperor was the 'real' Dark Lord, Revan and all the others were pretenders branching off from Freedon. 72.90.125.29 10:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean branching off of Naga Sadow. Sadow was waiting his time on Yavin, while this guy was getting things done. --Michaeldsuarez (Talk) (Deeds) 00:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Image?
I was looking to see if there was any new information on TOR through the internet and I happened upon a website called "Star Wars- TOR- Temple". I went to their "concept art" section and I found a few pieces of artwork that I had not seen anywhere previously (which were very interesting). Amongst them was this:

Now, this is very similar to a much smaller cropped version of the same room with some of the same characters but with a different view and the Dark Council in it. This image appears to be official, yet I cannot find where they got it from? Anyone know? Because in that case it provides a decent shot of the "Sith Emperor", or at least the being implied to be him. Whether we decide to put it up or not, it's still worth knowing, no? --Sauron18 05:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

You cant be sure that this image is the 'sith emperor' it could just be a sith lord of his order/empire. Alexsau1991 21:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Naga Sadow Sucks!
Does anyone else find the prospect of this "Sith Emperor" being Saga Sadow a little disappointing? When I read The Golded Age of the Sith and Fall of the Sith Empire, I couldn't help thinking what a shabby Dark Lord Sadow was. Nothing about him struck me as Sith, let alone Dark Lord. He was almost... gentle.

Does anyone else agree that Sadow as the game's antagonist is a very poor choice? 71.61.97.8 18:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I do, though for an entirelly different reason. Truth be told, I find Lord Sadow the very essence of the Sith. After all, Darth Sidious was gentle too. However keeping Naga Sadow alive retcons the whole line of Dark Lords established by Freedon Nadd as little more then misguided usurpers. Not something I'm overly fond of. Do keep in mind, however, that there was no official source claiming that the Sith Emperor is Lord Sadow. Gorthuar 18:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree whith what you have said, again for different reasons, some where at the point in this history they must have returned to revans sith as what happened to the rule of two was based on that and more humanised, bringing back Sadow is just a theory, its not likely to be him any way really, there are others, but they need someone new, almost unknown a sith who surved under sadow maby, but this aint a talk page, the artical shouldnt express any fellings about sadow being this empror. btw watch the fottage on there web site, if you aint already. Alexsau1991 23:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be very disappointed if it was him. Sadow caused the Sith Empire to collapse in the first place; it would be silly if Bioware wants to make him the person who rebuilds it. In addition, I dislike how Star Wars writers believe that twists and bringing back people believed to be dead would make books or video games better. I find many of these so-called "twists" utterly predictable (and if it's not predicable, they bring them in an utterly silly way). People who you thought were dead and come back has become cliche over the years, and it doesn't feel original any more. -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 19:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

If you're referring to the IGN article, it could simply be a mistaken identity, though why would they specify him in the first place? VT-16 18:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Although unfortantly it isnt Bioware's choice who the sith emperor, its lucas arts, althouh it still hasnt been confered that is is Naga Sadow, nore has it actually been hinted, fans have been interpting what Bioware have said into Naga Sadow being the Sith Emperor, all it is so far is speculation. Alexsau1991 17:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No one/where has actually said that it is Naga Sadow so far it is just speculation, even though Sadow never had a confermed death and it says the final leader of the sith, there is still a chance it could be someone else, its something that will be revealed in the future. Alexsau1991 18:37, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

DARK LORD OF THE SITH
As has already been said but went off the subject, sources indicate that during these other sith reigns he has above his name he wasnt actaully the 'dark lord of the sith' as his empire had colapsed he was in exile and his order of the sith wasnt the reigning order of the sith, so at that time he was leader of the sith who went into exile and not 'Dark lord of the Sith' and the other sith were. Alex1991 15:35, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Except he was the leader of the Sith... the others were appointed after him anyway Calithlin 06:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Depends on how how you would define "Sith". -- Michaeldsuarez  Infinite_Empire.svg ( Activate Holocron ) 04:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

He was leader of the sith in exile, even if he was ruler of the sith at the same time as sith like Freedon Nadd, revan malak etc, he cant have been at the same time as Naga Sadow as they both ruled the same empire, so i have removed his name from the sucsession box. Alexsau1991 14:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Both Sadow and this guy ruled the factions of the Sith formed after the collapse of the Sith Empire. They didn't know of each other's existance, nor did the Sith that were loyal to them. QuiGonJinn There's always a bigger fish. 15:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

the old republic: deceived
This is largely speculation, but could the main character in the new The Old Republic trailer (which depicts the Sacking of Coruscant) be the Sith Emperor? Or is it someone else, like Lord Angral?

Etan O'Hara 10:58, 2 June 2009

I reckon you could be right. the guy did look old, with his breather system, but he could move well for 1500. he also looked like Grand Moff Tratcha from the Betrayal comics User:1705jallen

Sourcing for dismissing Sadow as Emperor where?
I'm rather disappointed that Wookieepedia has chosen to simply overrule the possibility of Naga Sadow being the Sith emperor without any source to back it up. As I understand it, Wookieepedia is meant to be an informative encyclopedia on Star Wars that is as factually correct as possible. I may not like the idea of Naga Sadow being the Sith emperor (because it would be woefully unoriginal), but it is still what it says on IGN.

But because someone doesn't like that idea, Wookieepedia just goes on to presume that IGN was mistaken? The IGN article is a published news article, and as such presumably factual until officially corrected. There is a published source that says Sadow is the Sith emperor. Whether people - including myself, I might add - like it or not is immaterial.

And the reference to the official website making a distinction between Sadow and the emperor is indicative of similarly poor sourcing and speculation. Here's what it actually says:

"Dark Lord of the Sith Naga Sadow led his armies in an aggressive campaign to destroy the Galactic Republic. Though the Sith were successful at first, the Jedi Order rallied back to defeat their dark counterparts, systematically destroying the Sith civilization on Korriban. Unbeknownst to the Jedi however, the last Emperor of the Sith managed to escape the carnage and fled into Deep Space with his most trusted Dark Lords."

Does the official site say Sadow is the emperor? No. But IGN does. Does the official site say Sadow is not the emperor? No. It mentions Sadow as the dark lord, then proceeds to talk about the last Emperor escaping and calls him that from then on. That doesn't preclude the possibility that it's one and the same person. I've revised the "behind the scenes" bit to reflect this, because it seems wrong to just say that IGN is mistaken, when there is no source that says so or even refutes their claim. Jediphile 09:25, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there are more then enough sources in the article on Naga Sadow which state that Freedon Nadd destroyed his spirit on Yavin IV some one thousand years before TOR's timeline Gorthuar 17:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And those sources are old, while newer sources are vague on Sadow's fate. Doesn't that suggest retcon to you? I mean, look at what Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force says on the subject before dismissing it out of hand. Jediphile 12:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)