Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Kas'im


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Kas'im

 * Nominated by: Darth Xadún ( Consult the Holocron ) 15:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Nomination comments: Enter the Blademaster. You can keep your Cin Dralligs and your Raskta Lsus for all I care! My first contribution from WP:NSW.

(6 Inqs/0 Users/6 Total)
Support
 * 1)  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) ''I am satisfied.  —Tommy9281  [[Image:Red lightsaber.png|20px]] ( Peace is a lie ) 16:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Very cool character.  Chack Jadson  (Talk)  12:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) -  Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 14:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) If that is all that can is available for the BtS, than I'm ok with it :) I'm sure if anything comes up, then Xadun will add any info as necessary.  Greyman ( Talk ) 16:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose


 * 1) The Anvil:
 * 2) * Eliminate any overlinking. One in the intro, one in the article body.
 * 3) **I believe no links are replicated now.
 * 4) * I changed this for you, but Kaan's Sith were dignified as Dark Lords, as opposed to just "Sith Lords/Masters".
 * 5) **I didn't recall seeing this. I remember all 'Masters' were granted the title of 'Lord' but didn't realize it was 'Dark Lord'. Thank's for altering it.
 * 6) * The "Brotherhood of Darkness" section is nine paragraphs long. You may want to combine a few, or create a new section under which some can fall. Your call.
 * 7) **I've pulled a few together - Kas'im's recruitment to the Brotherhood and how he trained apprentices, Bane's approach and training, and the events that occured during Kas'im's brief time on Ruusan.
 * 8) *** Good job on the condensation, but I would still break it into two sections. It just looks abnormally long as it is.
 * 9) * In the "Brotherhood of Darkness" section, you say, "The students were each given training sabers that secreted a non-fatal venom when they struck an opponent, resulting in the wielder feeling extreme pain but would recover." The weapon didn't secrete the poison&hellip;
 * 10) **Damn. I meant to alter the references to the training sabers before placing my edit. It should read much better now.
 * 11) * With that said, there is more to be described about the effects of the Sith training saber, such as the sensation caused by the "venom" was supposed to simulate what?
 * 12) **see above ;)
 * 13) * Same section/paragraph, you use non-fatal twice consecutively.
 * 14) **Thanks to the ealier edit for the training sabers, this is now removed.
 * 15) * Same section/paragraph, you introduce Sirak, but only as the apprentice allowed to use the double-bladed saber. Give a little more context as to who Sirak was, with regards to the school.
 * 16) **Didn't want to go off on too much of a tangent about someone other than Kas'im. Expanded per request.
 * 17) ***You got that.
 * 18) * Same section, next paragraph, you say, "Bane, sensing this lack of favor, challenged the strongest apprentice at the Academy, Sirak, in a bid to regain his standing. His rapid and abrupt defeat only confirmed Qordis' views to Kas'im." The bit about Sirak being the strongest apprentice should be made at his first mention.
 * 19) **Changed.
 * 20) * For the objection above, you go from talking about Bane challenging Sirak immediately to his "rapid and abrupt" defeat. Just a sentence is necessary in between those, regarding how Bane was rapidly defeated.
 * 21) **Added.
 * 22) ***Very good.
 * 23) * Also, I think that "Dark Lord" should be used in place of "Sith Lord", especially since the book referred to them specifically as Dark Lords most often. (Minor)
 * 24) **'Dark Lord' is referenced to many Sith when used by Kas'im, not just those in the Brotherhood of Darkness.
 * 25) ***I changed this already, no worries.
 * 26) * You reference the "Army of Light" in the seventh paragraph of the "Brotherhood of Darkness" section, yet you offer no explanation as to whose command they were under.
 * 27) **I've expanded this part. Please see if you think it need more.
 * 28) ***I cleaned it up a bit, so it should read better now.
 * 29) * On that note, I think that the "Army of Light" should be first referenced when you first speak of Lord Hoth. This is who the Brotherhood was fighting with, after all.
 * 30) **I though it was there. I only mention Hoth at the above point and in the intro.
 * 31) ***My fault.
 * 32) * Early in the "Death" section, you say, "But Bane now held no respect for Kaan or the Brotherhood, believing his Rule of Two would restore the Sith to glory through secrecy and cunning." This needs to be first reworded, so that it doesn't begin with "but", and Bane's idea of the Rule of Two should be touched on a tad more.
 * 33) **Sentence adapted to include a brief description of the RoT.
 * 34) * "Death" section needs a new heading. Something less lackluster.
 * 35) ** It's now entitled "The Final Duel". I felt that was more appropriate.
 * 36) * Last sentence of "Death" section, you say, "However, he was unable to shield the stone arch surrounding him, and Kas'im was crushed beneath the stone." What happened to the stone that caused it to fall on Kas'im?
 * 37) **Altered to read: However, the power Bane unleashed covered so great an area that it shook the entire temple and smashed the archway surrounding Kas'im, who was crushed beneath the stone.
 * 38) * Finish with these, and we will go through more. Very good, Xadún. Kinda reminds me of the beginning of this comic. Lets see how you do;) —Tommy9281 [[Image:Red lightsaber.png|20px]] ( Peace is a lie ) 14:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 39) **Thanks for reviewing! Darth Xadún ( Consult the Holocron ) 19:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 40) From the desk of Atarumaster88
 * 41) * Is "Leader of the Brotherhood" a proper noun? (Intro)
 * 42) **Hmm. not how I left that. Altered.
 * 43) ***Still there, actually.  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 44) ****Bah. missed it. is definately gone now.
 * 45) * "led by the Jedi Master and Lord: Hoth." Reword this. (Intro)
 * 46) **And that's different too. Altered.
 * 47) * the Master and student fought a vicious duel, in which Kas'im was subsequently killed." Reword this as well; also, check your capitalization of "Master". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sith Master is capitalized . . . ."master" is not. Also, check on canonical use of Blademaster. I'm pretty sure Blademaster Kas'im would be capitalized but not Blademaster by itself.
 * 48) **Capitalized Blademaster is canon as it is a title. I have been told that Master is likewise.
 * 49) ***Fair enough; but the wording is still a little off on the sentence. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 50) ****Now reads "After an intense confrontation where Bane bluntly refused to rejoin the Brotherhood, the Master and student fought a vicious duel that resulted in the death of Kas'im."
 * 51) * "The Twi'lek set about training every apprentice with the lightsaber," Reword this please.
 * 52) ** Now reads "The Twi'lek undertook the task of training every apprentice with the lightsaber".
 * 53) * Context on Githany.
 * 54) **Added.
 * 55) ***I've noticed this is unstruck - would you like more?
 * 56) ****No, it's fine. I just missed striking it. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 57) * "Bane became enraged, thrusting out with the Force, repelling his opponent mid-leap, and proceeded to throttle the Makurth with the Force, until he died." Restructure this please. The multiple clauses don't read well-the wording is fine, but the structure isn't.
 * 58) **I've broken this sentence down.
 * 59) * "knowing that Qordis would not allow the failed apprentice into favor again. " Same here; this isn't very clear.
 * 60) **Now reads "The Twi'lek was highly sceptical of Bane's intentions, but used the excuse of Qordis’ orders to initially refuse the plea.".
 * 61) ***Much better, but expect someone to go back over this and change all the Anglo spellings (i.e. sceptical --> skeptical and duelling --> dueling).
 * 62) ****Curses. Every time I adapt to one American spelling, I discover new ones! Thank you for alterering these.
 * 63) * "His warrior nature and hunter's instincts, that had been controllable while far from the war, began to take over Kas'im's senses, and training and sparring with the other Sith did little to curb his aggression. Kaan began to feel that Kas'im's nature made him unpredictable, and could inspire others to act on their discontent, resulting in an insurgence against him." Reword these two. In particular, "that had been controllable" needs some touch-up, and "insurgence" is not a great word choice.
 * 64) **Has become "Kaan began to fear that the agitation Kas'im was feeling could spread, causing a rebellion within the Sith and the Brotherhood would dissolve through the in-fighting that would ensue."
 * 65) * I think the article before the duel could be touched up; I seem to recall Kas'im having more dialogue with Bane than what's depicted in the article.
 * 66) **The pair actually say very little before fighting - Kas'im knows Bane's stubbornness means he will not be swayed to rejoin the Brotherhood. But I've expanded it a little more, such as i could.
 * 67) * " the power Bane unleashed covered so great an area that it shook the entire temple and smashed the archway surrounding Kas'im, who was crushed beneath the stone." Some flowery prose here.
 * 68) **Simplified.
 * 69) * "Kas'im had trained Bane, the apprentice who would proclaim himself Darth Bane and eradicate the Brotherhood of Darkness and re-model the Sith under the Rule of Two." Reword this please; the tense is awkward and Bane had already proclaimed himself "Darth Bane" as this point.
 * 70) **Altered.
 * 71) * "sparring with others did little to slake his bloodlust, such was his desire to feel real challenges to his skill." Some flowery prose here.
 * 72) **Simplified.
 * 73) * "convinced in the hierarchal structure of the Brotherhood," This is somewhat contradictory with the equality principle. Please clarify.
 * 74) **Poor description on my part. Now reads "He was convinced in the “united” structure of the Brotherhood, but recognised the necessity of leaders within the Academy, saying it "avoided complications" if the other masters on Korriban deferred to Qordis, who in turn responded to Kaan."
 * 75) * "Kas'im's greatest skill was his unparalleled swordsmanship." POV/OR.
 * 76) ** Now reads "Kas'im's strongest skill was his swordsmanship with the lightsaber."
 * 77) * "but because of the unfamiliar nature it possessed against an opponent as he once" Reword; doesn't read well.
 * 78) ** Sentence ended at "opponent" and cut rest of sentence.
 * 79) * "Kas'im's level of proficiency in lightsaber combat so high that he is often considered the greatest swordsman of his age, and possibly one of the greatest ever to have lived." Number of issues with this; tense, awkward wording, POV
 * 80) *Tense and wording corrected. But he is canonically described in Path of Destruction as being "possibly the greatest swordesman ever".
 * 81) * Second sentence in BtS is OR unless sourced. I mean, did Karpyshyn say that was his purpose in introducing Kas'im? Ditto with the third sentence, which also has tense problems.
 * 82) **Both sentences removed.
 * 83) * "His lightsaber itself was a unique construction like all lightsabers, but was able to be disconnected in the centre, changing a formally double-bladed lightsaber into a pair of single blades." Wording issues, and it's center in American English.
 * 84) **Altered and Americanized for your reading pleasure!!
 * 85) *Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 14:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 86) From a Bane fan:
 * 87) * "...who had assumed the antiquated Darth title." I wouldn't say this is necessary. If you want to keep it, it needs context onw hy it's antiquated, which just gets unwieldy IMO.
 * 88) **Recommissioned to the Bio battalion.
 * 89) * "but the Blademaster thought that Bane, although powerful in the Force, was now refusing to embrace the dark side" I believe you've already established that he was scared of its power and backed away from the dark side.
 * 90) **Now marches to the sound of "but the Blademaster thought that Bane had lost his strength and will to fight."
 * 91) *Good article.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 12:54, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 92) **The inspection has been reviewed, Commander. Thanks for reviewing! Darth Xadún ( Consult the Holocron ) 20:05, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 93) From the squadron briefing of Cavalier One:
 * 94) * Any chance of some images for the article? I know there are none of Kas'im, but what about images of Bane, or Korriban, or the temple on Lehon, etc, just to give the article some colour? - Cavalier One ( Squadron channel ) 14:18, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 95) **I've shalotted images of the Korriban Academy, Bane and the Temple of the Ancients... Although there is a lasting annoyance at the absence of a Kas'im pic. Bah. Still, Thanks for looking, Cav. Darth Xadún ( Consult the Holocron ) 20:42, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 96) Toprawa:
 * 97) * A few preliminaries I notice: I'd like to see the "Known apprentices" infobox field listed by alphabetical order, unless this is presented in chronological succession
 * 98) **Now reads A-Z.
 * 99) * It seems to me that your succession box should be sourced, assuming that not all of that information comes from the one source in which this guy appears. If they are all in this source, please disregard. Toprawa and Ralltiir 02:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 100) **All of this succession box is from the timeline assumed by Darth Bane: Path of Destruction - Kas'im is not present in Jedi vs Sith.
 * 101) ***Even though Kas'im himself is not present in JvS, it would still be pertinent to source any information that may come from other sources, which seems to be the case here.
 * 102) ****The box is now sourced, and as there is now 2 sources, the whole article has been sourced.
 * 103) *****That would have been my next objection. ;) Toprawa and Ralltiir 16:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 104) * There really should be a specific article for this duel, in accordance with all of our other duel articles. If yuo can't link something, please create an article, since we don't allow red links in the intro: "Kas'im killed his Master in a duel."
 * 105) * Ditto, please link that article here: "Kas'im engaged him in a duel"
 * 106) ** The problem with these two objections is the location of the duel is never given. So unless you want "Duel in the Unknown Location" cropping up, I can't create this article.
 * 107) ***I've created the article for you. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 108) * When you are referring to the Rakatan Temple at the end of the article, you begin alternating between "Temple" and "temple." I don't care which you use, but stick with one for consistency.
 * 109) **All now conformed to "Temple".
 * 110) * This doesn't tell me anything without an understanding of what JarKai is: "and utilized Jar'Kai against his unsuspecting opponent."
 * 111) **Clarified.
 * 112) * Can't we link anything to this? "a huge shockwave of dark side energy"
 * 113) **Linked to Force Wave.
 * 114) * Given the way this is capitalized, it seems like something should appropriately link here: "Bane embraced this for his New Order"
 * 115) **Gah - meant to do that. linked to Order of the Sith Lords.
 * 116) * I would like to see this expounded on. Can we describe what they looked like, etc? "Kas'im also sported several tattoos across his chest."
 * 117) **Frankly, Toprawa, so would I. That's the only description PoD gives, and as far as I am aware, Kas'im appears in no other works at present.
 * 118) * Please see what you can do to add to this in any way, shape or form, if only to avoid the one-sentence paragraph: "Kas'im could shield himself using the Force to protect from Force Powers, and was able to utilize telekinesis."
 * 119) **This paragraph has been re-worded and expanded.
 * 120) **Not an objection, but please refrain from ending your quote attribution lines in full stops. Toprawa and Ralltiir 15:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 121) ***Any particular reason?
 * 122) ****Quote attribution lines are not sentences, and shouldn't be punctuated as such. Image captions really shouldn't either, per Wikia style, though we typically do with that. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 123) *****Alright. The quote attribution lines are now altered.
 * 124) *Thanks for reviewing Toprawa. I'll be getting ready for round 2. And 3. and 4.... ;) Darth Xadún ( Consult the Holocron ) 20:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 125) **Sure. :) Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 126) Grae's preliminaries:
 * 127) * The succession box contains information not provided by Path of Destruction, and therefore needs to be sourced.
 * 128) **Info now sourced - The whole article is now sourced also due to sourcing guidelines.
 * 129) * Per Manual of Style, "master" should not be capitalized except when used as a rank or title, and not thus: "his Master." Please change such instances.
 * 130) **Incorrect instances have be de-capitalized.
 * 131) * The BtS is so extremely bare-bones, I cannot believe there is not more than can be added. Scour the internet!
 * 132) * Graestan ( Talk ) 01:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 133) Per Grae, with regards to the BtS. Wasn't it mentioned in the book Path of Destruction that Kas'im was a master of Vaapad, which makes that a continuity error? If so, then that would be prime real estate for the BtS. If I'm mistaken, since it's been a while since I've read it, then just disregard that :P  Greyman ( Talk ) 07:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 134) *Interestingly, no. Sirak is mentioned to use Vaapad (instead of Juyo) and since since he was trained by Kas'im it could be taken thusly, but all refences to Kas'im just say he's mastered all 7 styles. Darth Xadún ( Consult the Holocron ) 16:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments


 * Nice use of the word "throttle". —Tommy9281 [[Image:Red lightsaber.png|20px]] ( Peace is a lie ) 14:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)