Talk:Naga Sadow/Archive1

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Larger pic
Can we get a better and larger pic for the infobox? --Imp 16:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Would this be better? File:Naga.JPG --User:Odintheking

Lightsaber
Were Naga Sadow possess a lightsaber? No a sith poisen blade was the choice of Naga --Dr.Pepper&#39;s Krayt Dragon 02:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, he used a Sith Sword. Darth Kevinmhk 02:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Naga Sadow not full blood sith
According to timetales, he is a hybrid human and sith. --UVnet 20:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * And in the comics, Naga Sadow said himself that he had "Jedi blood" --Mr. Perfection 12:56, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * But in Dark Lord of the Sith #1, Vodo's holocron claimed Naga as full blood Sith, and Naga was rebelling against Jedi blood Sith. Darth Kevinmhk 04:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, this is an old confusing conundrum. Basically, sources are confused as to Sadow's lineage. The DLOTS said he was full-blooded Sith, yet later sources, incl the NEGTC, portray him as predominantly human (ie "Jedi" blood). That's why he's depicted in a variety of ways - from the human of the NEGTC and TOTJ covers, to the red-skinned Sith of the interior artwork. QuentinGeorge 07:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going with the original source and leaving his racial status as hybrid then. The whole point of the comic is he's selected because of pure Jedi blood.Charlemagne19 06:43, 26 October 2006 (EST)
 * In that case, should it really say that he is a "native member of the Sith species" as it does? Various sources has been confused on his heritage, but while he doesn't look entirely human, he certainly looks a lot more human than Ludo Kressh. So I would suggest the "native member of the Sith species" reference be removed. The Sith species was pretty much extinct by Sadow's time from inbreeding as far as I know. Yes, he certainly descendented from the Sith species, but he still looks more human than Kressh did. Jediphile 14:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

death
Which source stated that Nadd really killed Naga? I thought he was only presumed dead. NEC's work? Darth Kevinmhk 03:49, 6 May 2006 (UTC) Kevin J. Anderson screwed up the story after Tom Veitch left and took credit for creating the background on the early Sith. It's amazing they published anything after DLOTS, since even it is filled with incomplete information and everything that followed it is a complete contradiction. Star Wars is mediocre when it comes to coherency.
 * Freedon Nadd leaves Yavin 4 soon afterwards, intent on becoming the king of ONDERON, a primitive world outside of the Old Republic's boundaries. The fate of Sadow remained a mystery. Quoted from KOTOR2 Chronicles, and I cant find Nadd killed Sadow in TOTJ comics. Darth Kevinmhk 05:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I got the ans from Nadd's talk page. Darth Kevinmhk 06:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It was alluded in The New Essential Guide to Characters in Sadow's entry. -- SFH 18:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Darth Kevinmhk 02:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, I once joked that the new Legacy comics would have something to do with a revived Sadow leading the nu-Sith or something. Since they're keeping his fate in limbo, that might actually be a possibility now. lol VT-16 12:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm led to believe that Naga Sadow was pure Sith blood. Secondly, all that stuff about Revan using his poison blade can't be stated as it is not historical. As a player of KOTOR, one can choose whether to use the blade or not. Also, one can choose whether to save Yuthura or not. Be extremely careful when determining a character's history which is derived from how you play a computer game.Poyntz 17:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * According to the new Star Wars MMO in development (Star Wars: The Old Republic)Naga Sadow never died and is the Emperor of the Sith in the game.
 * You're right. Naga Sadow is definatly the new sith emporer in 3,600 BBY!
 * Well, we already know that Sadow taught Nadd 600 years after the Great Hyperspace War, and the official site of the new MMO says, "Unbeknownst to the Jedi however, the last Emperor of the Sith managed to escape the carnage and fled into Deep Space with his most trusted Dark Lords." It then goes on to establish this "last emperor" as the Sith emperor of the game and mentions that he "undertook dark rituals which prolonged his life and his undisputed rule". So it seems obvious to me it must be either Sadow or Kressh. Sadow makes more sense to me than Kressh does, because destroying the jedi was his ultimate goal, while Kressh was more concerned about preserving the Sith Empire. Jediphile 11:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Although this information points toward sadow being the sith emperor, sadow has not been named, it says the last emperor of the sith managed to escape, Sadow was already in exile so he wasnt necercery the last sith emperor who escaped and rebuilt the empire, it could have been many others. Nothing should be written as all facts about sadow being the sith emperor is just speculation, Alex1991 10:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the description of Sadow's fate be more vague? I realize that the original Tales of the Jedi comic books say that Nadd killed him, but Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force is very vague on the matter and avoids saying Nadd killed Sadow (it merely says he killed his master, which need not mean Sadow). It also suggests the possibility that Nadd learned from a holocron rather than from a living Naga Sadow. And according to an IGN article, Sadow is the Sith Emperor in the upcoming Old Republic MMO. I'm not suggesting the articles should be merged, but it all makes Sadow's death at Nadd's hands seem doubtful and possibly retconned. Jediphile 17:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note to myself - the original Tales of the Jedi do NOT say that Nadd killed Sadow. It sort of suggests by saying Nadd killed his master, but it also contradicts it by saying Nadd could not be the dark lord while his master lived, and so he conquered and ruled Onderon instead. So in that sense, Nadd killing Sadow doesn't make sense, and I assume the reference to Nadd killing his master refers to his master as a jedi before he fell and turned to the dark side. Jediphile 14:37, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Return
There should be something on Naga Sadows confirmed return in The Old Republic video game. What is this nonscence about another sith lord coming back 100 years later. That sith lord is Nga Sadow. Who changed it back!

Alive or Spirit?
When Nadd waked Sadow up, Sadow was a spirit or with physical body which put to sleep for years with trance? I dont have NEC with me, but The Dark Side Sourcebook is with me and it states Sadow was a spirit when he taught Nadd. Please help me clarify, thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 13:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Plus, KOTOR2 has an item named "Freedon Nadd's short lightsaber" which said Nadd destroyed Sadow's spirit. Darth Kevinmhk 16:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The Complete Encyclopedia confirms this.--86.16.181.235 19:34, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force also confirms this. —Obi-wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 20:49, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * So now this has been confirmed in three of the most recent sources that mention his death can we finally make the change? His death has been rectonned into Nadd destroying his spirit, i feel the article should reflect this instead of the it is unknwon nonsense. --194.176.105.43 12:24, December 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * I would support a change, I also think there is certainly enough evidence to say Nadd killed his spirit. —Obi-wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 00:39, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Done, it has been changed. If you have any disagreements with what I wrote, I would prefer it that you didn't instantly "undo" it, but talk about it here, so we can discuss it and then change it, or this may result in Edit wars--which I would really like to avoid. Thanks. —Obi-wan Jacobi  Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 00:53, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone keeps changing it back... Calithlin 10:06, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Main Picture
His current main picture is plain ugly. Can't we change it to that from Yavin?
 * Ah, much better now. Still not what I was hoping for, but definitely better than the previous one.

Sith'arri
Is Naga Sadow a candidate for Sith'arri? It seems like he meets the description. Graal 15:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Fate of Yuthura Ban
It might seem like an odd thing to query here, but I was led to believe from other articles here that the canon fate for Yuthura Ban was her redemption and return to Dantooine. This article however contains the implication of both fates (her death in the tomb and her redemption), does it not? (~ SotiCoto)
 * I cleaned it up some- does that look better? Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Audience Chamber ) 16:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It makes more sense now. Thanks. (~ SotiCoto)

Homeworld
What's the source for his homeworld being Ziost? I know it's the adopted homeworld of the Sith species, but not necesserily of each and every individual. Khar Delba seems to have been his private world... Gorthuar 12:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Since no one cared to provide the source, I'm removing it.Gorthuar 20:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Naga's name
I was looking at the wiki dictionary for the word Dragon, and in Indonesian, Naga's name appeared. Should we add that Naga means dragon in Indonesian?
 * Seems reasonable. In the "Behind the Scenes" section, of course. Or it could be this kind of Naga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_%28mythology%29Gorthuar 21:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The Holocron of Naga Sadow
Good Morning, Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to EGTF, Tionne Solusar reads a rather detailed excerpt from a Sith holocron that she leads one to believe was made by Naga Sadow. I would like to create the article based on that, but I would also like someone to confirm what I believe to be true first. To reference what I'm talking about, go to pages 173 & 174 in the Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force starting at the bottom right where it says "Sith Alchemy". Thoughts, anyone? Tommy 10:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)User:Tommy9281, 5:30am 12/26/2007
 * It does indeed mention a Sith Holocron, it says: "...Naga Sadow, who left detailed records of his work within in a Sith Holocron I cam across some years ago...", but the holocron is not "named". So, if you create the article I think the title would be conjectural. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 10:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Good enough for me...Thanks! >(Now, you will experience the full power of the dark side) 5:43am, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Main Image strikes back
So what's wrong with the one from "Jedi vs Sith: the Essential Guide to the Force"? It's far better than the one from the New Essential Guide to Characters, so why the revert? Gorthuar 17:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, since there seems to be a disagreement as to what's the best picture:

Option 1
--Dr.Pepper&#39;s Krayt Dragon 02:20, October 25, 2009 (UTC) Option 2 is sorta misleading and makes him seem powerful like some one on world of warcraft dosent seem like the star wars kinda guy, but true it does look awesome though not for a information post
 * 1) JMAS 19:30, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) I wouldn't go so far as to call option 2 "crappy", but it is quite inappropriate for an infobox. Darth Culator  (Talk) 19:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Option 2: long, inappropiate for an infobox, no details, colorization is false...the list goes on really...-- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 04:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Option 2 is a nice picture but just doesn't work for the infobox. Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:54, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Volemlock 20:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Option 2

 * 1) I think it's great, has much more character than the current one, and really doesn't do the infobox any harm. Gorthuar 19:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Comments
We all know the current one here, which I personally find... lacking. There is also the new one here: which has been described as "crappy" with "no details" and "not appropriate for infobox". Suffice to say I don't agree with that review at all. So which one shall it be? Gorthuar 19:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead made this vote presentable. - JMAS 19:30, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good call. But it doesn't really scale the new picture the way it'd be scaled in the infobox ;) Admittedly, the way I posted it, it was much larger and more impressive then the current one, but I didn't really know how to do it better. Gorthuar 19:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Out of pure curiosity - how is option 2 inappropriate for an infobox? Is it the Meditation Sphere? The fact that Lord Sadow's face is partially covered by his sword? Anything? Gorthuar 19:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You got one reason right. His face is covered and it is too long. - JMAS 20:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It was way to long when the rest of the star was visible, belive me. Would it be any better if I made it even shorter, by ditching the Meditation Sphere? Gorthuar 20:15, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In eply to Redemption: I can't help but notice that Option 1's colorisation is also false. Quite terribly. Option 2 at least has some light effects to explain that away. Oh, and stop using "inappropriate for infobox" as an argument. Rather *explain*how is it inappropriate. Gorthuar 14:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems to me, looking at the numbers, that nobody needs to explain anything. You just need to figure it out and accept it. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 21:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm already accepting it. A vote is a vote, after all. But it would be polite to enlighten me what other reasons than the ones I've already figured out are there. Gorthuar 22:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Death mention retconned
Didn't the more recent sources retcon away Nadd killing Sadow, or even meeting him in person (JvS:TEGTTF)? If true, then his death section should be reworked. VT-16 08:15, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, not really. It doesn't say that Nadd killed Sadow, but mentions Nadd learning from Sadow as well as pointing to the possibility that Nadd learned from a holocron. It says Nadd killed his master, apprenticed himself himself to a dark lord of the Sith and made himself king of Onderon when he couldn't become a sith lord while his master lived. However, the entry is written in character by Arca Jeth, while the addendum by Tionne Solusar says that according to a sith researcher, Nadd learned not from direct apprenticeship to a living sith lord, but from a holocron. But since it's all written in character and conflicts, it's doubtful if anything definite can be concluded from it. Jediphile 19:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia under Freedon Nadds entry does indeed mention that he Destroyed Sadows spirit. here is what the entry says "When he felt he was strong enough, Nadd destroyed Sadow's spirit and set out to become the next Sith Lord" --86.16.181.235 19:25, December 3, 2009 (UTC).

Skin Color?
I am a little confused upon how his skin color was selected. I have been assuming TotJ:tGAotS has been the main source of his physical descriptions. What characterization is the light skinned version based upon?

I agree... the best sources indicate his skin was red. 72.90.125.29 05:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I've seen yellow,peach,pink and red for his skin tone.Mythosaur 12:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where yellow comes from the atrocious main picture. Which is a part of a larger picture of the 5000-4000 BBY Dark Lords. Every single person on that picture has yellow skin - Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma and everything else on that picture is suspiciously yellowish too. I'd discard yellow from the list of possible colours, and the current main picture along with it. Red, I think, is the most appropriate colour. Gorthuar 08:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Age of Sadow
Shouldn't it be noted somewhere in the article that Naga Sadow witnessed the battle between Marka Ragnos and Simus that resulted in Simus loosing his body? As stated here:

"I remember when he lost his duel with Marka Ragnos...But he never gave up, never failed us..."—Naga Sadow, from: Tales of the Jedi: The Golden Age of Sith: The Fabric of an Empire

Since that duel happened a century before the Great Hyperspace War, it gives a bit more of an indication of Sadow's age. Therefore, by the time of the Great Hyperspace War, Sadow was at least 100 years old.--Obi-wan Jacobi 22:13, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Sadow is in trance on a unnamed planet.His body was never found and he was in spirit form when nadd encountered him on yavin 4.When nadd cast down the sith lord it was his spirit not in physical form.Naga sadows poision blade was said to be recovered by revan,WRONG.It was bane that came across the weapon first.Try not to listen to the books so much they are a wealth of info but stray from the facts.
 * What?! Naga Sadow fled after the Great Hyperspace War to Yavin IV. There he died (confirmed by JvS:TEGttF). Freedon Nadd then learnt from Sadow's spirit on Yavin IV and after he had gained all he could from Sadow's knowledge and posessions etc on the moon, he destroyed Sadow's spirit and left to rule over Onderon. Revan lived before Darth Bane. The facts mostly come from the books in this case. And most importantly what has this got to do with Sadow's age by the time of the Great Hyperspace War? —Obi-wan Jacobi  Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 07:56, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. I mean no offense, just a correction. —Obi-wan Jacobi  Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 08:11, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

destroyed?
How did Sadow possess Eison Gynt if his spirit was destroyed by Freedon Nadd? 71.181.235.53 02:34, April 17, 2010 (UTC) I know this topic is a few months old, but I recently reread Darth Bane: Rule of Two, and it says that Naga Sadow was in fact alive when Nadd met him. This makes a lot of sense vis-a-vis The Old Republic, especially given that TOR is written partly by the author of Rule of Two. --DarthEinstein 02:35, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking SW:TOR has made a retcon that Sadow's spirit was fully destroyed, I think now "destroyed" can be viewed as a bad choice of words, maybe a better word would be "defeated". It seems Nadd defeated Sadow's spirit then trapped it in Sadow's tomb or something, a bit like Jaden Korr defeating Marka Ragnos and locking him in his tomb. —Obi-wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 02:42, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * ^Maybe, but maybe not. Maybe Sadow gave Nadd the illusion that he destroyed his spirit. And Obi-wan Jacobi, why would Nadd only defeat him and lock him in his tomb? Isn't that, like, sparing him or something? Sith, especially ancient Sith, don't do that. LordDeathRay  (The Sith Archives)  02:45, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe Nadd had no choice, maybe it was the only way he could defeat him and take his place as the new Dark Lord of the Sith (perhaps another reason why he went to Onderon and didn't stay on Yavin IV)? It's also possible that Sadow gave Nadd the illusion that he had died like you said, but why would Sadow do that, it does not fit Sadow's character at all to do something like that, even if Nadd happened to be stronger than Sadow. —Obi-wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 02:57, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe you're right. To be honest, I don't know much about Sadow, at all. I'll just stick to the Nadd defeated Sadow's spirit then trapped it in Sadow's tomb thing, like you said. LordDeathRay  (The Sith Archives)  05:25, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I meant no offence, don't feel I was forcing you to believe my opinion, after all it is all just speculation until Bioware brings out more information on the subject. :) The only thing we know for sure is that Naga Sadow's spirit was not fully destroyed.... —Obi-wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG 06:31, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * What page is that from? Also, keep in mind that it was probably Bane's understanding and view on the matter, which is not necessarily correct (for example in Dynasty of Evil he says the Sith species went extinct thousands of years before his time&mdash;which is incorrect). Also, many other sources have said that Sadow was a spirit when he met Nadd. —Obi–wan Jacobi  Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG ( Talk ) 02:49, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Page 102: "Sadow's power had been so great, it had allowed him to survive for six centuries, fueled by the energies of the dark side. As his apprentice, Nadd had absorbed all his knowledge and teachings, transferring them into the Holocron before murdering Sadow and taking his place." This happens when he is looking at Nadd's holocron, and it seems that he's getting this information from the holocron, so I'm not sure that it's just his understanding. But if all the other canon sources point in the opposite direction, then fine. --DarthEinstein 13:19, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (2008), The Dark Side Sourcebook (2001), Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force (2007), and Knights of the Old Republic II (2004) all say he was in spirit form. You would think that it would be correct information when you get it from Freedon Nadd's Holocron. I mean, he was Sadow's student. I guess that "survived" could be interpreted as his spirit surviving? Or Bane simply got his facts wrong. —Obi–wan Jacobi Jedi_Symbol_Dark_Chrome.JPG ( Talk ) 20:32, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I say we wait and see if any further information is in The Old Republic. The page can stay as it is for now. --DarthEinstein 01:43, August 4, 2010 (UTC)