Talk:Anakin Skywalker/Archive14

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Sidious is not Anakin's father
To quote from Dark Lord, near the beginning of Chapter 21, p. 133 in the hardback:

"He recalled thinking: What if Anakin should die?

How many years would he have had to search for an apprentice even half as powerful in the Force, let alone one created by the Force itself to restore balance, by allowing the dark side to percolate fully to the surface after a millennium of being stifled?"

Two sentences later:

"Sidious would have had to discover a way to compel midichlorians to do his bidding, and bring into being one as powerful as Anakin."

It's very clear: Sidious neither knew how to do the midi trick, nor did he create Anakin, and he personally believed Anakin to have been made just by the Force. I'm removing the speculation that it could be Sidious, and I'll ask that no one re-adds it without addressing this. - Lord Hydronium 08:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sidius is not anikans father.it's stated in episode 1 that there was no father(shmi skywalker is the mother)Thire 4477 01:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * We know that Sidious wasn't Anakin's father. The father was likely Plagueis. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 12:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nor need Plagueis be his 'father' in the traditional sense of the world. To be clear, he almost certainly didn't have sex with Shmi Skywalker (unless we include mind-wiping or other such things, but that's taking fan speculation to the brink.)  Technically speaking, he'd no more be the father than the clinician who deals with in-vitro fertilization treatments, though his role in the creation would be greater. 68.228.89.148 02:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If Anakin was "The Chosen One", as defined by the Jedi Code,It can be proven the force works in mysterious ways. If he was the Chosen One he would have to be created somehow so maybe the force naturally created Anakin to fufill this prophecy. The other Masters did not deny that Anakin was the prophecy but felt he had come to late and already let his emotions control him. From this, if he is "The Chosen One" then he has no father and was naturally birthed by the Force itself.Darth Kannon 02:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Hair Color
Blonde ! Anybody with half a brain can see he has brown hair, who's with me ! screw you assca ducato In the movie his hair is brown, except for TPM, duh, but in the books he has sandy blond hair. In Bloodlines, when Jacen Solo walks back in time, he sees Anakin during the attack on the Jedi Temple. The book says this: He saw a young BLOND jedi with his lightsaber drawn, flanked by troops in white armor... Blond people! Not to mention, in the book AOTC, Padme takes notice of Anakin, and though I don't have the book with me, she sees his sandy BLOND hair. BLOND! LeiaOrganicSolo 14:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And anyone with two-halfs of a brain can see that his hair isn't brown in the eyes of the NEC. Jasca Ducato undefined 18:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's brown, not blonde. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 20:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You're getting banned for that one. Go to hell, you damn anon. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 11:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't feed the trolls. Atarumaster88  13:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You dudes are crazy KKR 20:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC) KKR
 * If you're talking to me, no. Sticking up for a friend is not being crazy. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 00:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Spending time under the sun -let alone two of them- can bleach the color out of most fine-haired types. That's where the term 'sun-bleached' comes from.Tocneppil 06:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Anakin had blond hair as a little kid and a teenager. Once he got a bit older, his hair got darker, but it should still be classified as blond.  Even though it looks brown. Revan211 16:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Um so what is canon then the Movies or the books? I thought the movies came first? Because if Lucas wanted a Blond then they would of died his hair. DracosTheBlack 02:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Clone Wars Pic
I just got this pic off a website. It is from the trailer for the upcoming Star Wars: The Clone Wars series and I was wondering if we should use it. Any Thoughts? Vezz801 18:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The image is a bit too dark. Besides, I don't think there's enough room for images during that time period in the article. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 22:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

height and age
Is it really needed to put the height of when he was 9 and when he was 20? Sappose we did that for Obi-wan and Mace Windu, It wouldn't look right. I think we should just put it at when he was done growing. 24.208.55.168 00:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'll remove it. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 15:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Lightsabers
Shouldn't we remove some lightsaber pics? Personally, I find some really plasticky-looking, no offense to anyone.

Sith
Has anyone but me noticed that Vader, although making frequent notes about the power of the dark side, never called himself a Sith?
 * Yeah. He does a lot in books though.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 19:52, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The term Sith is never actually used in the OT. It didn't appear until it was written on the back of a Darth Vader action figure package, naming him Dark Lord of the Sith. It certainly appears in the PT though

Redirected from Vader
Shouldn't "Vader" have a disambiguation page, rather than directing straight here? It could refer to Darth Vader, I'm certain there were posessions or perhaps even a starship named after him and, in terms of other characters, it is also a call-sign of Wedge Antilles. 67.101.248.246 03:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, what about 'lady vader', and 'the glove of darth vader'?
 * Who, searching "Vader," would be looking for the call-sign? There would be links to disambigs everywhere; don't make "Vader" a disambig. 16:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Subpage
OK, I'm working on getting this article to FA status, though I'm doing it on a subpage. Namely, User:Thefourdotelipsis/Anakin. I'm going to need some help in areas, though, so when I come to a trouble spot, I'm going to list the sources I need info from here. If anyone has any of the sources and is willing to help, please, don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page, or on IRC. Thefourdotelipsis 11:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Episode I Adventures 5: The Ghostling Children
 * Episode I Adventures 6: The Hunt for Anakin Skywalker
 * Episode I Adventures 7: Capture Arawynne
 * Episode I Adventures 8: Trouble on Tatooine
 * Episode I Adventures 14: Podrace to Freedom
 * Episode I Adventures 15: The Final Battle

For those, I think I need info from both the storybooks and the game books. Also, if there are any other books from that series that Anakin is either mentioned or appears in, it'd be a great help if...well, if someone told me about it. Thanks in advance to anyone that might decide to lend a brother...or at least an unliked cousin, a hand. Thefourdotelipsis 11:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The Birth of Anakin
I'm a Star Wars novice, relatively speaking, but here's a question - possibly a discussion question:

If Darth Plagus was able to influence the force to create life, and if Anakin Skywalker had no father, then is it assumed that Darth Plagus influenced the force to impregnate Shmi Skywalker with Anakin, making Plagus Anakin's defacto father? 71.198.62.92 14:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Er, not really. I'm also not an expert in Star Wars, but I don't really consider myself a novice, but there is no solid proof that I know of that shows that Darth Plagus is Anakin's father, de facto or de jure.

Anakin had no father. He was created by the Force, the Force itself (with no help from Plagus!) which is why he has so many mideclorians. Did I spell that right??? LeiaOrganicSolo 14:39, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

23:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC) I've always wondered-if one of the Sith Lords did create Anakin from the Force, why didn't they take him as an infant from Shmi so he (a) wouldn't develop attachments (b) wouldn't join the Jedi, and (c) could be raised into a honed killing machine like Maul?

ROTSfan

Expanded universe
I think the expanded universe portions of this article should be put under a seperate heading. I think the first part of the article should be about what is in the movies. Wondering if others will join me in putting expanded universe information in a seperate section after the information included in the movies. Things like Anakin's scar while fighting Ventress and Cato Neimodia and Quinlan Voss are all in the movies, so that should be included. The article needs serious editing. I don't think we should seperate EU information! That's what they do on StarWars.com. Here on Wookieepedia, we do stuff our own way! LeiaOrganicSolo 19:31, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that's not going to happen. Here at Wookieepedia, we don't differentiate between movie and EU information. But yeah, the article needs a good edit. A rewrite is currently being worked on by one of our most productive editors. --Imperialles 15:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I see. You are even pathetic enough (sorry) to include EU-stuff like Fosters Splinter of the Minds Eye although it is completely outdated for DECADES (at least since TESB). Yeah of course, vader fights against his known son with the clear intention to kill him. Don't care about canon just stuff anything in thats available. Why don't yur drop outdated sources which completely contradict the movies? I think it is time for a EU-crap-free alternative SW-wiki, this one became really annoying.
 * If we didn't care about canon, we'd be following your suggestion and dismissing valid sources solely because of personal dislike. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

To the OP and everyone else who doesn't like EU, last time I checked, Expanded Universe was cannon. Therefor totally valid. If George Lucas says EU is cannon, then it's cannon. Fans don't decide whats cannon, the creator does.

68.34.156.49 05:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Ryan


 * Cannon go boom!  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 12:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, yeah, sure, Splinter of the Mind's Eye is definitely outdated - Luke and Leia sexual tension, eeeeeeeeeew! - but it is definitely canon. Try actually reading the article on the book you want tossed out next time. Lucas and the book's author - Alan Dean Foster - worked together on the early books and Lucas himself stated that the plot elements in the book - the insipid crystal, the aforementioned-yet-still-icky incestuous sexual tension, Vader ready to take down his own son, et all - were plot elements that Lucas approved of. 65.161.0.75 15:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)Cybrarian 15:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

23:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)23:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)23:21, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I hope MW Stover's take on Splinter of the Mind's Eye fixes it into something more palatable. Windham's Rise and Fall shed some light on things (the crystal had a dark effect on Vader) but in no way went into psychological detail since it was geared towards kids.

Tao Part Canon?
I don't know about you, but this part with Tao doesn't seem canon. I mean, a tusken beating Vader? Vader upset about this kids death (he should be, but he's a sith)? Is there a source for this?Maxi6 01:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6

Anyone can be hurt bad if the element of suprise is against them, and the evershifting variables of the universe give them no resources.

Clone wars space station?
In the game Clone Wars, in a cutscene, the Jedi are on a space station snd Mace Windu mentions something to ani about Mergisheer. What is Mergisheer? And what is the space station they are on?67.72.98.109 22:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Galactic Republic space station.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 09:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

1 hand fighting style
"Vader developed a personalized version of Djem So[14][15], battling with one hand only while keeping the other slack at his side[16], a style that included elements of Ataru and Soresu[17]. It was resoundingly effective, both as a practical fighting style and a psychological weapon."

Is that really the case? It seems that Vader fought Luke with only 1 arm because Luke was so inexperienced. As soon as Luke started to improve his swordplay and became more aggressive, Vader began using 2 hands to counter him. Watch Empire Strikes Back again if you don't believe me. 68.34.156.49 02:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Ryan

Yar, true that, but does it mean that Vader fought Luke using both hands on the saber (funny phrase, that) because Luke had gained more experience as a swordsman, or because Luke's potential with the Force was beginning to approach or even match Vader's and Vader had to use a tad more concentration in duels with his son? Perhaps none of Vader's opponents who came before Luke even matched Luke's Force potential (which IMHO will affect your abilities with the lightsaber, experience regardless), thus Vader was able to use his "one hand tied behind my back" Ataru/Soresu hybrid style with little to zero difficulty. 65.161.0.75 16:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)Cybrarian

23:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)23:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)69.62.132.97 23:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I read that his injuries (sustained on Mustafar) had a lot to do with his revised fighting style. He had to make sure he was always fighting in a style that protected his chestplate, since that contained the controls for his life support. As for ESB, I think he was trying to get a reasonable "talk" in with an emotional Luke and only defensely parrying his blows.

The idea of keeping one hand slack as a psychological tactic is a good one though; it would lead the opponent to believe you're a cool cucumber and not using all of your strengths. I like that.

ROTSfan

Well, if you think about it, if someone's not all that great, you don't want to waste your breath! I guess Vader was cutting Luke some slack. But when Luke got better, was Vader gonna risk his forsaken just so he could seem cool, fighting with one arm and all? Come on people! This isn't rocket science! LeiaOrganicSolo 21:12, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Fighting style
Dear 68.34.156.49, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
 * Gee I don't know. Maybe I'm talking about the quote I took from Anakin/Vaders page under lightsaber training. Right under the pic of him and Luke dueling on the Death Star, is that quote. Why don't u read it before u make out like I don't know what **** I'm talking about, u asshole! 68.34.156.49 20:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)Love Ryan
 * Calm down or you guys will receive a short ban. No personal attacks.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 00:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Darth Vader
Why doesn't Darth Vader have his own article. I would have thought he would because he was a different character. Also, what's up at the top of the page?--UESPA 22:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Used to be on a different page but got merged after several arguments on the subject. And if you mean the funny blue URLs, they should be little icons but it isn't working at the moment. Green Tentacle (Talk) 22:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with UESPA, I reckon there should be a different page for Darth Vader. I mean, Anakin is a powerful Jedi, and the romance with Padme makes the character very sweet, and I don't think the horrors of Darth Vader should be on the same page, seriously. They are really two seperate characters. It would be much more sympathetic to Anakin.
 * No, they were the same person, which means there should be only one article on them. Sorry, but your opinions don't really mean much when it comes to this topic. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 16:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Then who's does? Just because Anakin and Darth Vader were the same person doesn't mean that they are the same character.
 * They were the same person, and that warrants only one article. Palpatine was obviously a different person before becoming a Sith; we don't have a separate article for his pre-Sith self, do we? Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 01:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, technically, they aren't the same people. Anakin was someone deep down inside Vader. Vise Versa. Besides, making them two articles means less clutter. LeiaOrganicSolo 14:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think there should be a separate article just because this one is so long.
 * It's not happening.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 11:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They are the same person, Anakin became Darth Vader. We've had this discussion before, and we decided that because they're the same person, he gets only one article. Also, splitting an article up because "it's too long" would mean we'd have to split up multiple other articles that should really not be split up either. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 12:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Who cares if the article is long? In my opinion, it makes it look better and more well-written. Anakin and Vader are the same person, and therefore, must be in the same article. 16:28, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

New main quote?
"I've accepted the truth that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."

- Luke Skywalker

How does this sound? Lalala la 10:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really tell us anything about the character. Nothing about his personality or talents. Still, the current one's not great, and we'd welcome a change if someone can find a good quote (though I doubt it, I'm sure people have already checked all the sources for quotes).  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 20:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Er, what about "Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he's still getting stronger", said by Mace Windu in Ep 2 or 3?
 * Mace never said that. He did say that "the boy has exceptional skills" but that's it. leandar 21:53, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * He did say it, in the Episode III novelization, but it doesn't really fit. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure he said it in a film, i think the third one, but let's not argue. perhaps it doesn't fit, maybe it does, but I'll leave it to you guys to decide. I've only been into star wars for just a bit over a year.
 * No, not in the movie. Probably in the novelization.  The dialogue is certainly different enough in the book.  leandar 12:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What about "He is impatient, strong willed, very opinionated, but truly gifted."? Said by Obi-wan in the RotS. - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 09:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not in the movie. Probably in the novelization.  leandar 12:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, Obi-wan does say that in the film, he says it when he's talking to Padme, I can't be bothered to find out exactly where at the mo but I can if I need to - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 15:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about the scene where he went to talk to Padme because he was worried about Anakin and he tells Padme that he knows that she and Anakin love each other but he won't tell the Council, that scene was deleted and is not in the movie. It is in the novelization and the script.  When he went to see her the second time, he was only interested in Anakin's location because he was going to confront Darth Vader. leandar 20:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't we use the Mace Windu quote even if it is just in the novelization? Does it have to be in a film?
 * Nope it doesn't have to be in the film, personally I like the "He is impatient, strong willed, very opinionated, but truly gifted." one, maybe a vote is in order? - Kingpin13Cantina Battle Ground 08:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, let's vote. I vote for the Mace Windu quote, "Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he's still getting stronger"

I still think it's in a film!

Ahsoka

 * Shouldn't there be a mention that Ahsoka Tano was his Padawan while Anakin was still a Jedi Knight? Possibly under "Knighthood"? 63.64.127.15 22:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That's what I was wondering. Ahsoka Tano was his Padawan, according to the Clone Wars 3D or whatever the hell it's called. Could someone add that? I haven't done enough research, and I don't think unregistered members are allowed to edit this article. I read the junior novel of Clone Wars, and she doesn't die in that. Maybe she dies after that. She isn't in Labyrinth of Evil. I'm going to see the movie today. I'll tell you how it ends. LeiaOrganicSolo 14:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC) SPOILER LeiaOrganicSolo 19:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC) again. Ahsoka doesn't die in the movie, although she may die in the TV series coming out. LeiaOrganicSolo 19:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC) SPOILER ENDS
 * I imagine that there probably wouldn't be much to tell until we get to the movie and the series and see how long she lasts with Anakin. Something tells me, and I have no idea what's happening in the movie beyond the trailer, that she won't be with him for too very long.  leandar 01:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes - WWII?
TO me, this sounds like one contributor's personal speculation and does not seem terribly well researched (there's no outside source on any of these ideas, and seems rather dubious to begin with) not to mention that his helmet is modelled after a japanese style, not a nazi helmet. I'm going to pull it off the page...if someone's very attached to it and can make a good case why this is so then by all means revert it back. Jett Windar 06:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC) Or maybe not. I guess the page is locked. SO much for working on those clean-up tags. Jett Windar 06:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a paragraph in the Behind the Scenes section that seems rather wildly speculative "Anakin also shows symmetry with several people in World War II..." etc.

Article too long
I don't want to incite a riot, but this article is really long. I think it should be split up into Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader articles because it is currently the second longest article on Wookiepedia. While the Palpatine and Luke articles may be harder to trim down, this one is a no-brainer (at least in my eyes). Sorry for opening old wounds, but this is probably the easiest way (but not the only way) of reducing the file size. BocoROTH 20:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC) I agree but it is too long--Ryal 17:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but it's not going to happen.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not too long! I like juicy articles.

Yes! Yes! I agree! The Anakin/Darth Vader article is to long. Plus, I hate the fact that it's "Darth Vader, redirected from Anakin Skywalker." He was Anakin in the end. LeiaOrganicSolo 14:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, me too! leandar 23:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The article was established this way by consensus track thread. Posting on old topics about how you dislike the article's length is not going to help things. And really, it's not long enough. It should be on an order of 600-700 KB, instead of its paltry 200. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 15:18, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

"Adherence to the Hero Cycle" section
Is it just me or this section is pure OR?  Stake black   msg 19:51, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is to a degree, but it's a well-known character model. The things mentioned are self-sourcing, and while I guess it depends on your interpretation, it's pretty obvious they fit that trait. I personally think it should stay. What do others think?  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 15:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Some parts aren't that obvious, and require interpretation, such as these:
 * 5.3. Crucifixion—Anakin's and Obi-Wan's lightsabers perfectly crossed above Anakin's chest during their duel on Mustafar.
 * 6.1. Imprisonment in whale's belly—Capture in the "belly" of Invisible Hand and in the "belly" of the Geonosian arena.
 * 6.3. Petrification—Anakin immolated on Mustafar; electrocuted by Palpatine aboard the second Death Star.  Stake black   msg 16:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * And...?  Stake black   msg 12:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your points make sense for those events. I think removing them would be okay. Anyone else have an opinion?  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 13:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I think it's kinda cool that George Lucas refers to that, it's not needed in the Anakin Skywalker page, infact I don't think it rally needs that much space because every one knows Anakin turns into a true hero in the end. Plus since it only contimplates to Anakin it shouldn't refer to Luke. Mecenarylord 18:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll give it a few days, if no one objects it, I'm removing it, all right?  Stake black   msg 21:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just those things, or all of it?  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 22:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking of removing it all.  Stake black   msg 13:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I recommend removing only the ones like those listed above. The non-obvious ones only should go.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 18:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Article Introduction
The introduction to this article really needs a rewrite. It seems to be more a list of anakin's decendents, than a summary of his life and there is almost nothing in it about the "Darth Vader" period of his life, which is like the most significant bit of his life. --Tom rules 16:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll rewrite it soon, unless someone else does.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 23:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Check it out.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 22:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ahsoka Tano
In the infobox about Anakin it says that Asoka Teno was his Jedi Apprentice, but its never mentioned anywhere else in the article as far as I could tell. I know the article's long already, but if there was information about that, it would certainly help me know who that was, as well as a bunch of other people probably. Or am I just totally stupid for not knowing who Ahsoka is. Aqua Unasi 19:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Its not that ur totally stupid its that you probably haven't seen the new clone wars trailer. You'll pretty much get everything after that -
 * Right. Ahsoka Tano is going to be a character in the upcoming Clone Wars TV show. Since the show hasn't come out yet, there isn't much info about the actual things she and Anakin do. -LtNOWIS 22:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

a call to seperation
darth vader and anikin are basicly two different also if you say want to look at darth vader info you have to scroll all the way down lets vote to return the page as it used to be--Ryal 03:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

please learn how to spell!

FWY, it's Anakin. Not anikin. Plus, it's easier to read when you use periods. LeiaOrganicSolo 14:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

a call to seperation
darth and anikin are seperate it is very inconveinient to scrool down almost an entire page lets bring this up and vote --Ryal 03:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC) IT'S ANAKIN! NOT ANIKIN! I'M SORRY, BUT LEARN TO SPELL DUDE!LeiaOrganicSolo 14:53, 15 August 2008 (UTC) "There was no Vader. There was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker."
 * I'm sorry, but people are not going to want to separate this. Even the possibility of a vote would be shot down quickly.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 13:28, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're saying the Anakin and Vader articles should be split, I disagree. Anakin was Vader, and he had turned to the dark side.  If it was really not just Anakin who turned to the dark side, Episode III was not tragic at all, but pointless and Anakin would be blameless.  It shouldn't be changed simply because it is inconvenient.

- Revenge of the Sith novelization

Drewton 01:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC) but the databank seperates them--Ryal 17:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But this isn't the Databank. This is Wookieepedia and we have a right to do things our own way instead of being a carbon copy of the Databank. Darth Anakin 17:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that there should be seperate articles for Anakin and Darth Vader. Anakin is a powerful Jedi, and the whole romance with Padme makes the character very sweet. It would be much more sympathetic to Anakin to make a separate page for Darth Vader.

I'm kind of repeating what I said at the top.

Anakin and Vader are two different people! Like Obi-Wan said, "He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker..." Or something like that! Also, sorry about yelling at the top...LeiaOrganicSolo 14:53, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Wookieepedia has NPOV; it's not sympathetic. As for Obi-Wan's quote: from a certain point of view. Saying that they're different people is absurd. The story isn't tragic at all, then. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

merchandise
On the merchandise wiki, i think we should merge Anakin and Vader together.I ask here as theres no one on the merchandise wiki.Please reply to User:Sgtcook, thanks.217.44.210.237 13:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have decided to merge them as you have on this wiki.If you just agree, just tell me.Sgtcook 20:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The Last of the Jedi Update Needed
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this article needs an update for The Last of the Jedi: Master of Deception. Would it be at all possible if somebody else would do it??--71.237.226.3 20:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Dark Lord: The rise of Darth vader
The timeline seems to be missing all of what happened during the Novel, "Dark Lord: The rise of Darth Vader" Which shows his transformation from a tragic hero to the Dark lord of the Sith. The book shows his change of attitudes for the remaining Jedi, his change of fighting style, and the beginning of his suspicions about whether or not Sidious truly was on his side. These events seem to be important to the overall character development of Vader. The lack of information about this time period should probably be fixed. I'd do it but I'm not registered and I cannot write in the various wiki standards that need to be upheld. 76.115.211.185 04:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have Rise of Darth Vader, so I will add content from it this week. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 12:25, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Updating and getting rid of that content tag!
For petes sake, that content tag has been there for months now! Someone update all the necessary parts already! 202.69.170.163 07:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Vector
Shouldn't Vader's part in Star Wars: Vector be added to the article? 72.141.203.84 19:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly my point. There is so much content out there right now with Vader, yet there doesn't seem to be updates... 210.4.126.119 01:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Editing and Revisions

 * I've started editing and revising this page where I can, but I am not all that familiar with the EU sections of Anakin's life, so it's hard to do any real revision and still keep the necessary information. I've been working on the movie sections, which I am familiar with (obviously), so I was wondering if anyone could work to bring the other sections into line? AngelQueen 15:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll hopefully have some time this week to add information from Rise of Darth Vader. Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 16:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Jedi Knight
The Databank now says that Anakin became a Jedi Knight and a general at the BEGINNING of the Clone Wars and not at the END. That retcons the previous Clone Wars series, most of the Republic series and the novel Jedi Trial ! Dreossk | 19:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's very, very silly (that they retconned that)... Drewton  [[Image:SWTFU_WP1_1280x1024.jpg|25px]] 21:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes and I'm sure they are doing this only to allow Anakin to have that padawan sooner... [[Image:DreosskBlanc.jpg|20px]] Dreossk  | 21:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I REALLY hope this doesn't come to pass.... it bodes ill for whats gonna happen when the Live Action Series starts (although granted theres less EU to tred on in that era, but still), I don't care if it IS Lucas running the show, have some respect for the stories that have come before hand, he DID let them write those stories after all.Jedi-Sith 15:39, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Move to Darth Vader?
There's been alot of talk on the site recently with regards to moving articles, and the general consensus is that articles should be named based on what name the characters were known most by. Most recently it has been about Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo, and there is currently a talk going on about whether the Kreia article should be moved to Darth Traya or not. That said, I think it is time we came to have a look at this article once again. Now, before anyone starts with the whole "we're not splitting the articles!!", that is not why I am writing. I am simply recommending that the article be shifted to Darth Vader. I am proposing this for a couple of reasons.
 * 1) He spent most of his life under the name Darth Vader (23 years as Vader compared to the 21 as Anakin Skywalker)
 * 2) He was known as Darth Vader to more people in the galaxy then he ever was as Skywalker, which is not surprise considering he effectively ruled an entire galaxy under the name of Vader.

So there you go, those are my reasons. Now, please; lets discuss this in a civil way.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 13:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Valid reasons, both, but if I'm remembering correctly, we go with the "final status" so to speak. Skywalker was unambiguously redeemed at the time of his death, and died as Anakin Skywalker, not as Darth Vader. It's like if a character suddenly turns Sith or suddenly turns Jedi or whatever...we immediately change the infobox. The same principle is applied here, but extended to the name. Traya...used that name in the same way that Dooku used Tyrannus, that is, in secret, so I wouldn't agree to that usage either. As for Solo, I haven't read Invincible, but apparently spoiler period isn't over, so I can't really say anything there. Thefourdotelipsis 13:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thefourdotelipsis has a point. He died Anakin Skywalker. In the end of ROTJ, the ghost is Anakin, not Vader. A-N-A-K-I-N! LeiaOrganicSolo 21:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think people need to decide which one to go with, the final status approach or the best known approach, because currently its really messy, in the final status approach Dooku should be Darth Tyranus and Kreia should be Darth Traya, Anakin should be Anakin Skywalker, Palpatine should be Darth Sidious and Jacen should be Darth Caedus, in the best known approach, Kriea and Dooku and Palpatine are appropriate, but goodness knows what you would argue for Anakin and Jacen's cases. Jedi-Sith 15:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Jacen should be Jacen, not Cadeus, just like Anakin! They died as their original selves!!!LeiaOrganicSolo 21:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Jedi-Sith, the last known names of those examples are (in order): Dooku, Kreia, Anakin, Palpatine, and Darth Caedus (which is why all those articles are where they are now). Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 15:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually the galaxy never knew Anakin lastly as Anakin, they knew him as Vader... however if you go by what Anakin considered himself in his final state then he is indeed Anakin (which is why I say final state for the others would be Tyranus, Traya, Sidious and Caedus). Even with your argument Traya is definately Traya... check the game put your cursor over her in the final battle - sure enough, says Darth Traya... not Kreia. Quite honestly I don't really mind what standard people choose, I'm just saying at the moment its not very clear, nor are people sticking to a standard properly Jedi-Sith 15:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But Dooku never really used his Sith name. When he died, he used Dooku. When Palpatine died, he used Palpatine (having not used Sidious since around 19 BBY). Caedus died as Caedus. As for Traya/Kreia, I'm leaving that debate to be handled on Talk:Kreia, where I'm involved in it. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 16:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Dooku only used Tyranus with a small group of people, not even his Dark Acolytes as I understand it. He was known by most of everyone as Dooku. As for Traya, well I don't know much about her, but weren't there two Trayas? Then Anakin, well I don't recall him saying "No, its Anakin now.", before he died. Maybe when he came back, but otherwise I only remember him saying "That name no longer has any meaning for me." And as I understand it, an article is named after a character or location's true given name, despite what they were known by (in the case of Thrawn and Mon Calamari), unless they give it up, as in the case with Grievous, Caedus, etc. This seems to be the case with Anakin.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 16:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're confusing me. Are you saying that this should be moved to Darth Vader? If you are, then no, because he died as Anakin. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 17:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I am saying that the move should be made to Darth Vader. Vader, like Grievous, forsook his real name for another. While his ghost might have gone back to Anakin, that would have only been after he died.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 18:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No. When he killed Palpatine, he ceased to be Vader. He was redeemed, and therefore died as Anakin Skywalker. You have seen Return of the Jedi, right? Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 18:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually Tranner, all those articles are titled by which name the character was most well known. You cold say that, as jaina believed Jacen had redeemed himself jst before he died, the article should be under the name Jacen Solo, but it's not. By that point he was known as Darth Caedus. It is the same for this article, the only person who knew Vader as Anakin was his son, even for years afterwards he was still called Vader by most people in the galaxy, including the vast majority of the New Jedi Order.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 18:57, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Regardless of how he was known, whether or not he could be considered Anakin, since he was redeemed and all, is irrelevent. He abandoned his old name in preference of Darth Vader, just because he turned at the last moment doesn't mean he accepted his name again. There is no proof of that, just your speculation. One could theorize that just prior to Dooku's death that he realized he had taken the wrong path, afterall his last thought was "Treachery is the way of the Sith." But does that mean that he wasn't a Sith at the moment of his death? No. The same goes for most Sith and other such "wrong doers". Ysanne Isard realized just before her death that she had failed the Empire, does that mean she ceased to be an Imperial? No. Vader was still a Sith Lord at the time of his death so his name is still that of the Sith when he dies.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 19:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ducato: And they are all under the name by which they were last known. Mitth'raw'nuruodo: A redeemed Sith does not still go by his Darth name. In killing Palpatine to save his son, Darth Vader rejected the way of the Sith and became Anakin Skywalker again. That is not speculation. I direct you to the Return of the Jedi novel, written by James Kahn and published in 1983, page 176: "With that, he closed his eyes, and Darth Vader - Anakin Skywalker - died." Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It still says Darth Vader, not just Anakin Skywalker. This may be a childish comment, but I might add that Darth Vader's name came first in that excerpt. Not much of a point but it was worth mentioning. Once again I feel I need to point out that a redeemed Sith is a Sith nonetheless. Besides, one could make a case that Darth Vader killed Palpatine out of revenge (I mean Palpatine did admit before Vader himself that he wanted Luke to replace his father, don't you think Vader could have had a "Treachery is the way of the Sith" moment?) But I'm not saying that this was definitely the case, just that we can't assume that Vader's actions were completely selfless. I mean Vader was a mass-murderer for 23 years and he's 100% good again in the blink of an eye? I don't think so.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 20:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me point out the flaws in your comment: Saying a "redeemed Sith is a Sith nonetheless" is 100% wrong. A redeemed Sith is a Jedi. He killed Palpatine to save his son, not out of revenge. And the fact that Anakin Skywalker is specifically mentioned in that quote shows that he was redeemed and became Anakin before he died. If it would have said "Darth Vader, once the man named Anakin Skywalker, died," then I would agree with you. But alas, it doesn't, so I don't. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A redeemed Sith is not automatically a Jedi. It could be one of many things. The Jedi and the Sith are not the only groups that comprise Force users. To assume that a redeemed Sith is automatically a Jedi is an incorrect and arrogant assumption. Besides while Vader almost certainly killed Palpatine to save Luke, there still remains the possibility that it was due to an additional reason, but "killed Palpatine" does not equate to "saved Luke so he must be a Jedi again". Also the presence of Darth Vader in the above excerpt prevents it from being used as evidence that Vader had totally become Anakin again. If it had said "Anakin, now redeemed, closed his eyes" then yes, sure, I'd agree with you. But it didn't, therefore we'll need better evidence that Vader accepted his old personna before he died.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 20:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, you're right in saying that a redeemed Sith isn't automatically a Jedi. However, a redeemed Sith would not go by his "Darth" name. Also, Anakin does say as he dies that Luke was right about him, assuming that's in reference to one of Luke's earlier comments about feeling the struggle inside of his father while on Endor. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 20:46, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That still doesn't mean that he gave up being Darth Vader. I'm still not quite convinced, though your argument has substance. I want to see what others think about this before making a descision.-- Mitth'raw'nuruodo (Imperial HoloNet)[[Image:Imperial_Emblem.svg|20px]] 21:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Luke believed that Vader was Anakin Skywalker once and could become Anakin Skywalker again. Before he dies, Anakin says that Luke was right about him; he did become Anakin Skywalker again. In conclusion, he dies as Anakin Skywalker and his page should reflect that. Darth Anakin 21:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Though as you said, if a Sith is redeemed he doesn't automatically become a Jedi, Vader definitely died as Anakin, and a redeemed Sith wouldn't call himself by his old Darth title. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:14, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm here to settle this at last. The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, page 207: "And in that moment of awareness, he was Darth Vader no more. He was Anakin Skywalker." Further on, the book mentions that Palpatine's lightning "electrified Anakin's organic remains;" "Anakin collapsed;" "Anakin knew;" "Anakin thought;" "Anakin said;" "Anakin's scarred features were exposed;" "Anakin smiled;" and "Anakin Skywalker had every reason to believe that he was finally about to embrace perpetual darkness. Not for the first time, he was wrong." Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 14:19, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, keep it as Anakin Skywalker! He was redeemed before he died, no longer a Sith Lord. 16:37, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

He is the chosen one
Acording to Lucas Anakni destroyed the sith by killing himslef(Since he became a sith lord) and the emmperor to save his son's life-207.241.247.30 16:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We all pretty much know that. And please learn how to spell. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 17:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Coruscant Nights
I have yet to read the book as it's not published yet in Australia or I would update this myself. I have only a vague idea of what Vader does in this book, but I know it involves Nick and Vader's speaking like in ESB. Please update someone! Katana Geldar  09:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Apprentice
In the upcoming game: The force unleashed is revealed that Darth vader had an apprentice.
 * We know that.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Imperial Spy
It is said that after Vader executed Rogor, Alliance once again began operating on Yavin.However in article about Rogor it is stated that his information led to Fifth Battle of Yavin after which Rebels abandoned Yavin Base.Which one is correct?

Fix up
I wish to register a complaint! There are quite a few major repairs we need to make such as TFU, Dark Times: Vector, and also adding the Clone Wars film info with Ahsoka. But how can we free users fix it if you don't relieve the protection that surrounds it. This is getting real serious for me. But if you won't let me fix this next time I come to Salve, do it yourselves because it's your mess after all. 198.7.229.2 15:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is semi-protected to stop anonymous users editing it because the majority of vandalism comes from anons. It is completely free to sign up and get an account, and doesn't require an email address or anything (though there is an option to include one). After you've signed up, it should take a day or two until you can edit semi-protected pages, but from then on, you can contribute to this and other articles as you please (assuming your edits are not vandalism and conform with the Manual of Style, etc). Hope that helps. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 15:43, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Look. I'd love to, but I'm being blocked for a year until March 11. Fortunately, I turned in a new loaf and I'll be moving to a new home soon. I'm sure to create an account there soon.

Anyway, I noticed some things we need to clear up. In section 8 of Serving the Emperor, you have to give two spaces on the commas between Shaak Ti. As for the rest of the section, we'll need to mention Vader's encounter with Kota on Kashyyyk, Starkiller's name, Rahm Kota and the other Jedi, and Vader betraying Starkiller resulting their duel on the Death Star. And in Vector, don't forget Celeste Morne and afterwards.

This time, try not to lazy on fixing... Admiral. 198.7.229.2 14:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

"Skyguy"
According to the Force-Cast, Ahsoka Tano calls Anakin "Skyguy" and he has a nickname for her but I Forget what it it is. "Sopes" or something like that. Wish I could link to it, but it was only on the Force-Cast. Katana Geldar  10:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

23:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)23:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)23:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Her nickname is "Snips". (as in "Don't be snippy with me!")

ROTSfan

Darth Vader's story in Soul Calibur 4
One of my friends in Singapore got the early "Limited Edition for the PS3" and this is Darth Vaders story:

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....

During a battle between the Galatic Empire and the Rebel Alliance, Darth Vader, Dark Lord and right-hand of Emperor

Palpatine, sensed a faint ripple of power. It was a very small sensation, but he did not dismiss it, and he began an investigation in secret. The ripple came from a disturbance that sporadically appeared in one specific region of space. As time passed, the frequency of the disturbance, as well as the strength of its effect, increased. It soon became a constant distortion and other began to realise that something strange was happening in the universe as well. However, because Darth Vader had been observing the phenomenon from the start, he already knew the cause of the distortion.

A being from a different dimension was attempting to open a portal into their universe. Various data indicated thatt a massive power lay at the core of the disturbance. Could that unknown power be utilized? With that possibility in mind, Darth Vader arranged from the securing of the area of space where the distortion existed, and received a report that a dimensional portal had opened.

After waiting for conditions to stabilize, Darth Vader proceeded forward into another galaxy. He searched for the origins of the wave of power and arrived at a planet.

The planet was in constant turmoil, the cause of which was two swords; two forces with opposite natures. The conflicting nature of the dissonant forces resonated off of one another and created massive waves of power. But swords wre not their true form, they were beings that best could be described as convergent energy forms.

Darth Vader had no doubt in his mind. He would be able to wield these forces-Soul Calibur and Soul Edge-as he wished. Once they were in his hands, these two contrasting swords would enable him to rule the galaxy. 210.4.126.16 07:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Rogor
I didn't deleted information about Rogor.I just moved it where it should be placed,in the Completion of the Executor You have to watch more closely before undo something.

"Skyguy"
Is that nickname relevant in the aticle's introduction? He must of been called lots of names by lots of individuals, but I don't think it should be there. Maybe behind the scenes or something...--Seth danny 15:37, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

New infobox image Vote
Anakin Skywalker's infobox image Vote. Sorry about image order. It's suppose to be 1#, 2#,3#, 4# not 2#, 1#, 4#,3#.


 * 1 or 4. Promotional's always better and 3's "outdated". Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 23:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1. 3 is old, and 4 stinks.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 23:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved the images into a gallery for better presentation. For what it's worth, I think they're all terrible, and we should go with one of Vader. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 23:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Stick with 1.  Aqua  Unasi  16:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why are we even having this vote? 1. Though I agree with Ackbar but that's only because of my extreme dislike for Hayden...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 16:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Either 2 or 4, number 1 looks like anakin is havin a bad hair day. Honestly I'm sure there are a lot better images of him than what we've got here Steves490 15:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Per Ackbar, i think we have a policy of using the latest picture possible in the Infobox, also this needs to be conducted probable with sections, — RC-1136 Hate Mail Here 16:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Anything but 4. And 2. Which leaves 1 and 3. Not 3 though, because that's outdated compared to the others. So 1. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * the first image reflects Anakin best overall IMO.  Madclaw Shyriiwook! 17:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1.  Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing  ( Oya Manda! ) 18:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Stick with 1, the others look terrible. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 18:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's going to be 1. I don't think this vote is necessary.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 19:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC)