Forum:SH:Main Page Revamp Crusade

The Main Page has looked more or less the same since I first became an active member&mdash;that goes back to 2007. This has got to change. I think it's time a community-wide discussion is held concerning what can be done to make this site more presentable to the internet at large. In the past, petty arguments between groups of users of differing mentalities have stalled any actual change or improvement for the Main Page, just minor additions that look the same as the content that was already there. Fear of change, as well, and charming hipster mentality that we don't need to be cool has stifled movement toward self-improvement. After a year-long absence that I thought at the time would be permanent, I return to a very different Wookieepedia, one that seems to be dying in terms of interest from the established users. As well, there are about half as people editing per month as we had back at our peak in 2008. Although there are many new users, most of them very positive and enthusiastic about using the site as it already is, but I wonder how many more could be attracted if the Main Page was revamped. It is in this spirit that I would like to engage on a Crusade to make sure something happens as far as the Main Page is concerned. This is not an admin establishment or old guard movement, but one driven by a user who has spent more time as a reader than an editor in recent years and sees a site that is actually less accessible than it was five years ago.

Please discuss this with me and feel free to add any new sections or make arguments. I am not out to have my way or the highway, but I am sure plenty will agree that some action needs to be taken. Promoting discussion is the entire point of this thread, looking forward to CTs or Mofference items that will change the most viewed page on the site. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Header

 * "Click the text link" is getting really old. This looks like Internet 1995. We've got to come up with something more presentable; virtually every other website on the internet has a better header. Even just logo images would be better. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * What exactly are you referring to here? The "The Star Wars encyclopedia that anyone can edit." part, or the general saturation of text links in the main page? I agree that the former should be changed, but there isn't much that could be done about the latter. Some of the links could be excised (such as the redundant interlang links below the article count), but a lot of them are useful to have on a main page.  &mdash;NA YAYEN  01:18, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

click for article navigation

 * When I used to come to the site simply to read, this was extremely useful. It would be better to have it visible on the Main Page like Jedipedia does than to reduce it to another case of "click the text link." graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this is, without a doubt, the most important thing on the main page by a long way (the only thing that comes close is the FA). Having this converted to something more interactive that doesn't waste space, and that makes use of the images, would be great. Possibly have two versions of it, one by era and the other by medium (comic, video game, reference book etc) could work. I'll try to get a Photoshop mockup of my idea for this soon, as promised on IRC.  &mdash;NA YAYEN  01:18, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that Graestan is referring to the bit that displays this. --Eyrezer 20:58, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I mean. While it's a useful page, it used to be, in smaller form, on the Main Page back when all I did was read Wookieepedia. It is a very useful tool for readers. Makes the site more user-friendly. With a hundred blue text links on the Main Page, this is not prominent whatsoever. graestan ( talk ) 21:24, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, I was referring to that bit too :P Doesn't it expand down on the main page when you click the "Click here for article navigation" link? That's what it does for me.  &mdash;NA YAYEN  23:23, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Quote of the Day

 * I actually don't have any improvements to suggest on this section. I think it's awesome. But I want this to be open to suggestion, too. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Possibly add a link to the calendar-format archive? Not much needs changing with this.  &mdash;NA YAYEN  01:18, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Featured article

 * Seeing the same image and article every time you open the Main Page for days on end is a bit of a bore, and I realize we can't make it to one FA per day again anytime soon, so I was thinking something along the lines of all four FAs for a two-week period going in a slow slideshow or loading randomly during each two-week period. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming that you want us to discuss each topic under each header? If so, here goes. For this one, I would like to see something done with the Featured articles on the Main Page. The idea of bringing people back everyday is a good idea. The part I don't like is the slideshow idea. I've seen different slideshows on various wikis, and, while not a slam to those wikis, I don't like it. The text is very difficult to read for most of the time. It overall looks cumbersome and annoying. Like I said, while I would like to see something new on the Main Page everyday, perhaps even doing something with the Good Article of the Day thing that is being discussed at the Mofference, but I don't believe a slideshow is the way to do it.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 22:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Did you know&hellip;

 * Again, a great section. I have no suggestions. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * This isn't really changing the look, but how about we talk about allowing more than just brand new articles onto the list? There are plenty of fun preexisting articles buried in the Wook, but they don't get any attention because, like most small articles before the CAN, we made them and stopped thinking of them. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 00:01, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * We could do like Wikipedia and allow significant expansions as well. Allowing new CAs could be done also. Master Jonathan (Jedi Council Chambers) Thursday, February 2, 2012, 16:44 UTC
 * I'm not a fan of the idea of an anything-goes DYK. If anything could be added at any time, I could see new entries being buried pretty quickly. Reserving it for new articles is, IMO, something that's not broken and doesn't need fixing, save for maybe a "from Wookieepedia's newest articles" appearing after "Did you know..." just so that readers are aware that new content is being shown off. Menkooroo 20:54, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Keeping it the same, that would be a good addition. Especially because if the rule it should be new is actually written somewhere it's hard to find. However, the few times I've added things to that list I've personally honored a bit of a grace period between them so the list doesn't just scroll. I think common-sense on that front will prevail, but we've misjudged things over that in the past. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 21:06, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * The German Star Wars wiki has "Did You Know..." for Featured and Good articles (See Main Page here), judging by the icons. This is another option. --Eyrezer 02:24, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Official friends of Wookieepedia

 * This could be given a facelift. A scrolling bar of logos for the sites would be cool, or perhaps having little sister wiki icons at bottom like they do over at Wikimedia beneath the independent Official friends. Maybe a little of both? graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * While it sounds like a good idea at first, I think leaving them as text links is perfectly acceptable given that I couldn't actually find an OFOW which used anything other than text to link to us.  &mdash;NA YAYEN  01:18, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Random articles

 * Lots of room for improvement. We have enough "click the text link" on the Main Page already without these. I had originally envisioned a slideshow of Good article intros or quotes with images where possible. The Good article intros would make for less space taken up than Featured intros usually demand. The argument at the time was that Good articles aren't as good as Featured articles and therefore don't deserve to be on the Main Page. I find this elitist and dated, especially because Good articles have basically become Featured articles of shorter length. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, I think that there could be some improvement there. I think a slideshow would not be good here either, however. Thinking off the top of my head, perhaps a self-refreshing thing could be done with that there. Perhaps something like how the Recent Changes is set up. Users would have the option to have the "Random Articles" section self-refresh so that the user could just sit there and every couple of minutes (seconds?) it would change to display a different GA or FA article name.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 22:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

In the news

 * Also a great section already, by my book. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Wookieepedia Newsnet

 * Just bring the dang thing back to life. Really. Volunteers would be most appreciated, I am sure. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I just want to echo the sentiment here. I think it's a great idea for the established users and the new users. It just needs someone who can keep it up to date and on track.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 22:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * And echoed again; this would be great for keeping current users interested in the community and the site, as well as pulling in new users. (I would love to help with the Newsnet myself, but as one of those users whose time is getting increasingly consumed by school, I barely have enough time to attempt to keep up with my current duties here as is.) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 00:12, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * The last time I ever submitted something in our Newsnet was back in 2009, I believe. I could submit canon updates again.  JangFett  (Talk) 00:23, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Call of Duty wiki has a group of a few admins who release a news blog every Saturday/Sunday, containing not only news related to Call of Duty, but also the wiki. I think this could be something to consider. 1358  (Talk)  12:46, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * That might be good, but the main thing that I think the Wookieepeida Newsnet would be good for is the interviews and interaction with the users. If we're looking to show users that there are actually human people (or near-human anyway :P) working behind the usernames, then I think this would be one of the best ways to do it. I wouldn't mind helping out with it, but I'll admit that I'm a bit in the dark since the Newsnet kind of died out before I really got involved too much on the Wook.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 15:34, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Interviews are the main thing that the Newsnet had. As for how to contribute, there's a WookieeProject and basically create an account on the newsnet site then ping me with the email you used to register and I can set you up so can post something. So you can interview a user and create a new post with an intro and the content of the interview. Then just ping me again (or a few others who have appropriate access such as Toprawa and Cavalier One) and I can publish it. :) Cheers, grunny &#64; wookieepedia :&#126;$ 15:40, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Canon Updates that I started were also massively popular, with generally over 1,000 hits per entry. It takes a lot of time and commitment though, which is why I stopped about almost 6 months of almost weekly updates. --Eyrezer 21:06, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Another idea could be to allow for blog entries that offer commentary on Star Wars by established users. E.g., when researching an FA, I often find random occurrences/neat connections between disparate sources. It would be reasonably easy to write a "Random nuggets of Star Wars information" blog. --Eyrezer 21:14, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

On this day&hellip;

 * A good section, not really much that can be done as far as I am concerned. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Wookieepedian of the Month

 * This should be more prominent than the very bottom corner, I think. Maybe a little blurb like they have at wikiHow on their "Meet a Community Member" sidebar item that appears on articles. It would promote the idea that accessible human beings are actually working on the site. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the need to raise it up higher. However, some improvement here would be good. Perhaps putting the user's profile image (if they had one) along side the WotM announcement. Something similar to what was done with Wookieepedia NewsNet when they interviewed the WotM as can be seen here. They would place their profile image next to the interview. We could just place their user image down there in miniature.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 22:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Tying this in to a desire to revive the NewsNet, maybe have the intro part of the NewsNet's WOTM interviews included here each month?  &mdash;NA YAYEN  01:18, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I really like that idea. "June's Wookieepedian of the month: Miguel Sanchez. Read an interview with him here!" Menkooroo 04:16, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Featured image

 * The argument most relied upon before was that this would put our Fair Use status on shaky ground. Well, it's pretty sad, really, because most other wikis of our type manage this without being sued or prosecuted, and LFL has very likely been using images lifted from this very site. At the very least this would be something people would come back to look at every day. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, I've seen this on various wikis, and I've never like it. People can see images in the Featured article on the main page, or Good article if we start that. IMO, that's enough.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 22:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of cool images, but I don't see reason in having another nomination process to select the best ones. Whole sections of Star Wars media would be pretty-much left out of the running because, frankly, the drawing can be subpar. TCW comics comes to mind. Further, the majority of works are prose and since Star Wars poplarity has dwindled in Japan, we've been getting less-than-spectacular covers lately. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 00:08, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * We can do this. Imagine the fair use arguments against image use like a big stone monolith. LFL themselves took a jackhammer to the monolith when they used our own original 3D renderings in the CSWE, then whittled them away further when they used them in the Databank, Starships and Vehicles Collection, and Wizards.com, and then the little pile of rubble that was left got NUKED when they linked to us in the new Encyclopedia and came right out and admitted they need us. I will still fight galleries to my last breath because they suck and are stupid, but a featured picture would be nice. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 00:20, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, voting for a featured image seems rather pointless for us.  JangFett  (Talk) 00:22, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Culator about being able to do this, but I always found the idea of a featured image to be kind of tacky. There's not much of a point... you can hit the random article button and get directed to any page with any number of images on it. You can find all kinds of images all over the site. Why shove one on the front page just to say "here's a picture of a thing that some people liked"? Unlike quotes, which aren't always easy to find and can be funny, poignant, or insightful, images are very simple to find on our site, with or without galleries. The whole idea always seemed too overtly gimmicky to me. Plus, we all already know what the first image will be... no surprises there. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 00:29, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see this as being any harder to vote or maintain than the QOTD system. SinisterSamurai 04:19, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Layout
I don't have much specific to suggest, only that a change in layout is desperately overdue. I realize that this is something that will probably have to be figured out after other changes have been made, but again I seek suggestions. graestan ( talk ) 17:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * A start on this could be variable-width columns, like what's seen at User:Master Jonathan/meh. This should work with the ads; the fanon wiki uses a similar setup on their Main Page (which is where I took the idea from). Thoughts? Master Jon (Jedi Council Chambers) Thursday, February 2, 2012, 17:01 UTC
 * I have to say that I don't really care for the example that you've provided right now. I don't think that widening the columns would help anything. It just makes it look out of place and leaves too much obvious spare room up at the top.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 01:27, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Per Cal.  JangFett  (Talk) 01:48, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Portals

 * There was discussion some time about about introducing portals to the Main Page, with one idea being to link/promote WookieeProjects. I have done a little bit of work on an alternate WookieeProject:Aliens cover page, which uses randomised, linked images (that can be refreshed) to show off various featured articles. I took some of this coding from other wikis' Main Pages, and I think with some more creative thinking, something to this effect could be introduced to the Main Page. --Eyrezer 02:16, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I don't see any reason why we should reshuffle what's obviously working. And presumably if we were to change the cosmetic appearance of it, that would likely be part of a broader, site-wide revision. Sounds like an awful lot of make-work to me. -- DigiFluid 17:39, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not obviously working, it's obviously working less. In my introduction I mention that the site has long since peaked in terms of users editing per month. It is currently around 50% of that peak. New users, which are the lifeblood of a wiki, are fewer and further between than ever. Only a small percentage of new users become productive, regular users. Meanwhile, the established users are falling to attrition. College, life changes, indifference, being bored with Star Wars&mdash;these all contribute to the thinning of our ranks. graestan ( talk ) 19:32, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've left comments for what I think about all this off the top of my head. I know that I've showed in the past that I've been against radical changes on Wookieepedia. Users can tell you that I'm a traditionalist, and I like to stick with what is working right now. However, I see some room for improvement on the Main Page, provided we don't forget our main focus: to deliver a complete, comprehensive, accurate collection of Star Wars information. Many, many Star Wars authors and other workers use Wookieepedia as their databank of information. StarWars.com links to us as the best source of Star Wars information on the web. I don't mind changes being made to improve the Main Page. I just plead that we do not forget what our main point is. We're not here to have the most substantial user base. It would be nice to have new users. However, we need new users who will work hard, stay dedicated, and become established, good users. We don't want to try and lower our standards just to get new users. Most times, when a new user comes here, if they intend on working hard and becoming a good established user, they won't really care what the Main Page looks like. To summarize, the Main Page could probably use some work, but please just don't forget why Wookieepedia is here.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 22:51, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * That hasn't got anything to do with page design. That's the nature of community-based websites. You see the exact same pattern on any given wiki, wikia, or message board. People come and people go, and new people come and new people go. There are peaks and valleys. That's not a crisis, that's just how community traffic is.


 * To be clear, I'll happily help out with any work if it's decided that this is going to happen. But until and unless that decision is reached, I still think this is a needless make-work project when there's already plenty to do what with some of the more notable recent releases (TOR, Darth Plagueis, Dawn of the Jedi, etc.) -- DigiFluid 17:08, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is worrying that editor count has sunk from the peak in August 2008 with 1,229 editors (users who made at least one edit in that month) down to 832 in January 2012. In August 2008 we had around 54,000 visitors on the site with over 1,100,000 pageviews. Yesterday, we had 108,955 visitors but only 968,959 pageviews. This means that people clearly use less time on the site&mdash;maybe a better Main Page with better article navigation could help? 1358  (Talk)  17:13, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * There's really any number of reasons for that--maybe it's just that the job market has turned to crap and everyone's too busy trying to find jobs or actually working at work instead of dicking around on Wikis (as I am currently doing lol) so that they don't have to go on the dole while it's still so hard to work. Or, perhaps more likely, maybe that peak has something to do with that August 2008 was when Star Wars was last in movie theaters, driving a ton more casual traffic our way and making numbers appear larger than they do on average. Not for nothing, more traffic is always a good thing. I just find it a bit disingenuous to look at numbers as the be-all end-all of our demographics, without looking to influencing factors. –DigiFluid 17:26, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Digi on the aspect that the Main Page will not bring in good, quality editors. Like I said before, I think that good, quality, hard working users will not care what the Main Page looks like. They'll only care about how the Wiki looks on the "inside." Without trying to sound prideful or against new users, I think changes to the Main Page will not bring in new, quality users. Nor do I think that the look of the Main Page is the reason that we're losing good, quality users. Like Digi and others have said, many of the good, established users have left because of college and real-life activities. Most of the time, it had nothing to do with the way the Wook looked. The reason I would support any change to the Main Page is because it would be all right to have a good change. I just do not think that this is a way to "revitalize" the Wook. And, also like Digi said, our main concern with Wookieepedia should be working on the articles since so many people, official Star Wars workers included, depend on our work. Thus, our main focus should stay on that.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 01:52, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just to note, there were a couple of ideas discussed in this earlier SH thread which may be good to expand on.  &mdash;NA YAYEN  23:24, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * While I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with the current layout and appearance, I'm always open to the possibility of improvement. One thing I would like to bring up is the rounded corners that are present throughout the site, as well as on the main page. While I don't hate them, I think that squaring everything off to be more in line with the war chronology templates would go a long way to improving our overall appearance of professionalism. For example, I think a template like Great Galactic War looks far more presentable than a template like K2char or History Sith. Culator brought up the issue in a no-consensus CT a while ago, but I think it's time to discuss it again. Rounded corners really are so 2005, and I think our main page (and the rest of the site) would really be improved by some regular ol' 90 degree angles. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 00:19, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Grae, I can't speak for you, but I know you've been pretty much inactive for a while. I think you coming back and starting this thread is a great thing, actually. I feel those of us who have been extremely active for a while have simply grown accustomed to the Main Page. Grae's view (as I see it, at least) more closely resembles that of most of the people visiting the site, and I give that view quite a bit of credit. We are here to serve the readers. Why else would we write articles? Sure our main focus should be writing, but it does no good if the readers can't find the articles or lose interest at first sight. MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg(Whatever) 20:02, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's good to have new readers. However, as stated above, from my point of view our main purpose is to be the most comprehensive databank of Star Wars information. Our primary goal should be to have a great databank for Star Wars workers, and fans, to read. While it's nice to have new users and readers, I believe we should stay focused on what I believe to be our main focus.&mdash; Cal Jedi Infinite Empire.svg (Personal Comm Channel) 03:19, February 6, 2012 (UTC)