Talk:Darth Sion

I've just read a post on a forum saying it's possible to leave Sion alive on Malachor V. Can someone confirm it? - Sikon 07:46, 23 Jul 2005 (UTC) If so, I don't know about it... DAWUSS 01:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Either fanon or cut content. Either way, should not be added or trusted. 168.103.70.82 05:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion/Draay Connection
I know it's supposition, and there is no official word or hint, but just play along if you want. ;P I was pondering over the events of the new KOTOR comics, and the possible meanings being Darth Sion's chosen Sith name. I have come to hypothesize that Darth Sion and Master Lucien Draay might be one-and-the-same. Here's why:


 * We know that Master Draay is "the scion" of a rich and powerful family.
 * We know that the name "Sion" can be derived from "scion" = meaning decendant or heir.
 * Though it's personal opinion, I find their features and build strikingly similar to one another.
 * It's clear that the lengths the masters are willing to go to in order to stop a possible Sith resurgence has driven them to the Dark Side. It is hinted that Draay finally realizes this in issue #9.
 * It is possible that the prophecy of the four Consular Masters might be fulfilled in Lucien (if he becomes Sion) because counless Jedi fall to the Dark Lord's blade.
 * If the Jedi Associate on Coruscant is indeed Kreia, then that would better explain Kreia and Sion's connection and how they came to be Master and Apprentice under the Sith Order.
 * Also interesting to point out would be that his name was spelled "Lusion" in the transcript of the original unveiling of the new KoTOR comic book line (IIRC, at Celebration III).

Again, I know completely well that this is just circumstantial, congectural, and a matter of opinion. I am not holding this as canon or fact, but I did think it might be worth a good mental walk-through. Even if it turns out to be completely false, it's always healthy to think about different things and see how they play out.--Master Dakari 03:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Sion is not Lucian Draay, lets examine why. Lucian has blonde hair and blue eyes, and different facial features. Sion has black eyebrows indicating dark hair, and his eye, that is still in tact is clearly dark brown. This debate of Sion being Lucian, or Alek, or Zayne or Haazen, or any other character from sources othe than TSL is silly, he like Nihilus is none of them, he is his own person, Sion is his only identity, his background which hasn't been revealed to date most likely will get explored in some future reference, be it a web strip, comic, or novel. Darthsion101

He is a Dark Lord. Sorry if you don't agree with canon.
The term "Dark Lord" is used correctly in TSL. All three were "Dark Lords of the Sith". Kreia herself says so "He is one of the Dark Lords", and so does Atris: "She is one of the Lords of the Sith." I have changed both Kreia's and Sion's articles to state this fact from the game. To keep deleting it is to deny canon and what has been established in the game. Regardless of your personal thoughts on the matter, fanon has no place here. Leave the issue alone.--Master Dakari 02:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Marauder?
What's the source for this? If it can't be verified, it's going to be deleted.--Master Dakari 19:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Deleted.--Master Dakari 06:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Teräs Käsi
His description says he knows Teräs Käsi. Is there any factual basis for this comment? If not, it should be removed. If there is, a note on the Teräs Käsi page should be added pointing out how long the fighting style has been around. --DannyBoy7783 06:26, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't believe there is a source. And being that Sion only fought with a lightsaber, its impossible to tell. Sounds like fanon. Redemption 06:49, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Fighting with just a lightsaber doesn't mean that he didn't use Teräs Käsi in his battles. Go check the description for the fighting style and you'll know what I mean. I agree though, it does sound like a bit of reaching is going on here in this article. I haven't played the game so I know next to nothing about the character but I do know that Teräs Käsi is rarely mentioned.
 * The game doesn't mention Teräs Käsi. Kill it. If it turns out to be in the NEC, it's never too late to insert it back. - Sikon [ Talk ] 08:12, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Indeed there is no mention that he was a master of Teras Kasi. He did throw some kicks and basic martial arts movements during duels in game, but there is no official evidence stating he mastered Teras Kasi. So I agree, it should be taken out, unless there is a viable source. It could always be re-entered at a later date. Darthsion101

Name
Apparently there is a suffix "-sion" meaning "break" or "crack" or something to that effect. I think that makes a lot more sense than "heir" for his name... Rod

Makashi + Dun Möch + Djem So?

 * Can someone please source this? Especially Djem So, it does not appear in any product until ROTS Novel. So how can Sion mastered it? Or it was intented to mean the classic Form V known as Shien? Plus, i don't believe Dun Möch was in the game. Thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 09:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It probably comes from KotOR II's Combat Feedback page. It's the page where the system shows how it calculates, damage taken, inflicted, and anything else related to the gaming system. Djem So is of course impossible, it's Shien at best. - TopAce 13:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Changed Djem So to Shien. Darth Kevinmhk 14:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Nihilus is Sion's Master?
Can anyone confirm what is said here-

Sion is listed here for the reason that he was a Dark Lord of the Sith, under Darth Nihilus, but he died before he actually succeeded to the mantle. He did not have the status of an apprentice, nor that of a complete equal; he was fully trained, but wasn't strong enough to take complete control from Nihilus, nor did he intend to; all that mattered to Sion was the total death of the Jedi Knights.

I was under the impression that the "Rule of Two" was not in effect at this point, and that the Lords Nihilus and Sion were at one point equals under the command of Darth Traya.

I've played K2, and when you view the cutscene where Traya is unsurped, Sion is the major unsurper. Nihilus just watched. I don't remember anything talking about Nihilus taking control, and Sion becoming the apprentice.

-Admiral Chamrajngar 14:13, 20 April 2006


 * Hm. Pure fanon. Truth is that we know next to nothing about Sion and how he came to be. Sion and Nihlius were both equals under Traya. Sion has never served Nihilus. --Redemption 18:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Chances are, it is a typo. Remember, Darth Traya and Darth Kreia were once stated as being two seperate people, but the corrections to remedy this mistake came too late; for the book was already published. Never in the game does the idea of Sion being Nihilus's apprentice come about. They were both the leaders of their own independent sects. With both being Sith Lords, all 3 were co-equal Dark Lords of the Sith, according to Kreia - and with Bane's "Rule-of-Two" not in effect until about 3,000 years to come - then all other canon outside of this one source says neither was the other's apprentice. Also, read what Visas tells the Jedi Exile: "I am not familiar with the planet you speak of - my Master has not entered Republic space for some time. [...] But there are others, who may move freely, who may have been responsible for such an act of destruction. [...] There are many factions within the Sith, all seeking to take what little remains in the wake of the Jedi Civil War. [...] Where one moves, it is not always known by the others. But their purpose is the same - the death of all Jedi, everywhere." Nothing that she says suggests that the two are linked in any way, other than they are both Sith and they both seek the utter destruction of the Jedi Order. We only know that they were both apprentices to Traya because of what we see in the "Kreia's Fall" cutscene where she describes her banishment from the Sith Order, and by what Kreia tells us personally. So again, I agree and say that what is found in the Visual "Guide" is either a typo or mis-informantion on the writer's part. Plus, considering how they put Atris's portrait above the bio of Brianna, then this isn't too far off of a guess. I have found quite a few things wrong in that book, and this is just another added to the pile. P.S. Also remember that some of the writers of these books have never even played some of the games they write about. That alone can lead to many errors that are often overlooked by editors, etc.--Master Dakari 00:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's fanon, then perhaps that information should be taken out of the article....
 * Okay, first, those three were the Sith Triumverate before Traya was cast out. None of them had complete control over the other. After she was cast out, it was the same thing. It was a sect, not an Empire. Nihilus basically went where he wanted to. Also, when asking Visas about her master and asking "Was he the one who destroyed Peragus?", she replies "My Master did not cause the death of the planet you speak of." If Nihilus sent Sion there, she probably would've known about it. 168.103.70.82 05:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Its not fanon. Quote EXACTLY and DIRECTLY from Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide, page 27, under the round-edge picture of Sion, "Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, is the Sith apprentice to Darth Nihilus.  His body parts are held to gether by sheer will and hatred."  You want me to prove it?  GO and read the book at Barnes and Nobles or at the Library (remember, page 27).
 * Ok, then it should be in the article. Traya --> Nihilus --> Sion Charlii 05:41, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't know if this counts, but when you're talking to Kreia about Visas in the game, she says exactly this: "She serves one of the greatest Sith, she is the most trusted... AND ONLY APPRENTICE. Yet you spare her. Why?" (I wasn't yelling, just wanted to make those words stand out) Is this enough to disprove that statement? I might be wrong, but I thought the game took preference over books about the game. And I know someone will point out the fact that Kreia lies a lot, which sounds like a suitable argument to me. I just wanted to see if this changes things. And the line about Sion in the book could be a typo that was meant to read Darth Traya instead of Nihilus, it's probably happened before. speculate away.
 * Actually I think it would be hard to make a typo between the differences of Sion and Traya. Also, the NEC writers not only had to write hundreds of pages of text, but they are not the same writers as the writers of the Ultimate Visual Dictionary.  The Writers of the UVD had to not only write the whole canon of Star Wars from the first era to the last happening, but they had to expand on other stories and similiar events.  I prefer to look at a Book that was written by intelligent authors rather than a game that had many screw-ups, that had an RP that could go anywhere, and was confusing canon wise.  It left more questions than answers.  Obviously, the Rule of Two was not in place because of the Triumvirate (sp?).  The Rule of Two was put into place by Darth Bane.  Although Revan had used the Rule of Two to train Malak, Nihilus did not use it himself. P.S. Also remember that some of the writers of these books have never even played some of the games they write about, remember, it could go both ways.  Maybe the creators of the game have never even looked at another Star Wars book, movie, or game.  The UVD is also interwined with all the other movies, books, and games, and this makes it more valuable.  I think it should be changed back.

Religious Background
I thought that "Sion" was a character in The Bible, is there any relation between Darth Sion and Sion? --Clone Paratrooper 20:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I dunno. Don't read the thing. I do know that his nae is derived from what I think is a latin name, scion, meaning "heir". That's all I know. 168.103.70.82 05:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually that would be Zion and it describes a location, not a person.– 22:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion a Reborn Jedi?
I was wondering because since his skin is cracked pale and blind in one eye. could Darth Traya have found a Jedi and reconstructed his body? --[IP # 24.215.175.227]

NO, Sion was a sith student before he even met Traya. As he states at one point to the exile before he duels him at Trayus, I believe the exact quote was "I was there on Korriban, when the sith turned on one another like beasts." He was one of the few to escape into the unknown. His flesh is cracked and scarred from years of battle, and wounds that should have been fatal, but because of his power, were not. DarthSion101

Box
I added a succession box that says "Leader of the Sith" since everyone seems to think that the triumvirate didn't count as Dark Lords.SithPower 22:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Edit its info just like the others. Darth Kevinmhk 03:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Image
Any special reason for not using this pic? If you ask me it's much better than the screencap we currently have. Charlii 20:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I can't stand that image. The image is really not the best represenation of Sion. Colors are weird, his face is hidden in some places...The only thing I can think of that could possibly come from that image is his lightsaber design. -Redemption 20:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, well I guess I can agree, it's just that I prefer drawn images to screencaps. Maybe I could add/replace it somewhere else in the article? That fuzzy meditation pic for example. Charlii 06:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The face doesn't look like the real Sion... Too small anyway... 168.103.70.82 05:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Revision
I tried to polish up some of the phrasing in the article, changing a few words and phrases, hopefully making them a little easier to read. DAWUSS 01:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion's race?
The article currently lists Sion as a human, but throughout KotOR II, I don't think he ever says what race he is. Have I missed something, or is that an assumption? From his appearance, he looks like he could be any humanoid.

He's human. His facial features can only mean human. He can't be Chiss, he'd have to have Red Eyes. And he can't be one of those beautiful people ( I forget what they're called). They never venture outside their borders... 168.103.70.82 05:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The only species, other than human, that I can think of as possible for him to be is Kiffar, Ubese, Mirialan or Tof. He clearly isn't a Chiss, Nagai, Arkanian, Miraluka, Zeltron, "Elf", Chev, Hapan or Dantari. Still, five options is a bit too much, we shouldn't assume anything. Charlii 18:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you people totally soft? Hes clearly a human being. Debating about his species is pointless, given hes a bit tattered, but he is every bit as human as Malak, or Revan.
 * There is no reason to be rude. If you look around the Wooki on near-human species, for example the ones I mentioned, you'll see that they differ very little from ordinary humans, and that the mutilated appearance of Sion makes it impossible to tell if he is human or not. Charlii 21:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "He looks human but he's fractured in several places..." Never leave an arguement open ended like that. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 22:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * hes humanoid, leave it at that, theres no point speculating further Jedi Dude 22:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion preferring Malak's leadership
This is an assumption. Sion respects Malak more than Revan with hindsight, because Revan chose to abandon the Sith Empire (both canonically as a light-sider and in the dark side ending) as such they fractured. It's nothing to do with which leadership style he 'prefers', or which he thinks is the more powerful - it's just a case of "Revan turned his back on the Sith, Malak didn't". (Ulicus 20:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Full name?
In the new trailer for Team Gizka's TSL Restoration Mod, it sounds like Kreia is referring to Darth Sion by another name in the scene where she says "So, (sounds like a name), can it be you still have feelings for the (illegible)?"
 * Turn your volume up a bit more. (Odd how whenever I view it I can hear everything perfectly) She says. "How touching. Can it be you still have feelings within that shell?" -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 01:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Why do fans like Sion
Why do fans like Sion, is a question that I find myself pondering on. How can anyone like him the Exile broke a sith lords mind. A SITH LORD'S MIND WAS BROKEN. Without much persaunsion. That is like Mara Jade breaken Darth vader's mind. How is that even possible. He was so powerful, but yet fail to words instead of a blade
 * The only people I've ever encountered that actually said they like him was because of the accent (like the Bao-Dur fangirls). To most, he is just another character. No real like or dislike for him. BUT, this is all beside the point here. Doesn't matter if any of us like him or not. He is a Star Wars character. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 03:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought he was an interesting character, but this really isn't the place to discuss this.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Oldsith.png|20px]] 14:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Darth Sion is one of the most powerful sith in the fact that he wouldn't have died had the exile not used dun monch to break his will. the reason being that he used his pain to get dark side, which kept him alive, making him more powerful, which caused him to have more pain, which kept him alive, and contined on in an endless cycle -Darth Sion

Quotes
Where are these quotes coming from? I don't remember Sion even mentioning Malak, or offering the Exile power. And I know his final line is "I'm glad to leave this place" rather than "I'm glad to finally have peace." Is there a source outside of the game that provide these quotes? Mistrx75 02:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it depends on your character. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 14:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Kreia and Sion
Why did Sion join Kreia after he slash off her hand. I thought that they were eneimes.

Right Arm?
Is it just me or does Sions right arm look Mechanicle? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 12:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a glove. And no, he's not Haazen - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 13:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I never said anything about that! and what's the point of the glove? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 20:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably raw flesh underneath it. Sort of like a layer of skin. Nasty stuff like that. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 20:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "It's a glove. And no, he's not Haazen" I was actually about to say the same thing. As to its purpose... maybe he just wanted to wear a glove on one arm, and nothing on the other. Who knows?--Master Dakari 04:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Cut Comtent
KOTOR 2 planned to have Atton face Sion instead of the Exile. Why did they change it. This seems to be better move
 * No, Obsidian always intended for Sion to face both - just at different times. They remove Atton and Sions face off for the same reason they removed everything else: lack of time. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Darth Sion
Has anyone else besides me just beat KOTOR 2. Because I did and Sion was pitiful. Why would they do that to him. He was tight and they mess him up. Please tell me that was mistake or something

Main image
Quick vote on the main image to avert a potentially pointless edit war. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Image 1

 * 1)  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e5/ATATatarismall.png 17:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) The second image has always seemed somehow weird to me. It looks as if Sion had a beard. TopAce 18:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) As if another vote was needed...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 20:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Image 2

 * 1) It might lack in detail, but it wins on art quality. That screencap is ugly. Charlii 20:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The second image has more depth and is more profilic for the infobox, the sreencap is definately not right.User:Darth Sacrus
 * 1) Definately the second image its more visually pleasing and the sreen cap is boring.User:Darth Vindictus
 * 2) I dont like either of them but if it has to be one id say the second one,it says sith lord more to me rather than with his hands dangling at his side looking unimpressive. User:KickAssJedi

Comments
Second image is much more descriptive
 * Personally I dont think either of them are great, the second one definately belongs in the info-box more than the first one though, what we need is a head and shoulders profile screencap of sion with his lightsaber ignited but on Malachor V instead of korriban as the sandy yellow brown colour means he doesnt stand out much Malachor was also his final apperance-User:KickAssJedi
 * 3 things. Firstly, sign in when voting, so we can confirm votes are from who you say you are. Secondly, you are not 2 people. Don't vote more than once with 2 different names. Thirdly, that image is hardly more descriptive. You can't even see his mouth, despite the fact it's a picture of his face. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 18:02, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Power
In the game Kreia says he is not able to be killed, so wouldn't that make him invincible? If so, that would mean that he would be the most powerful Sith Lord, but in Star wars Episode III, it says that Darth Plagueis was the most powerful, but also in Episode III it says Vader is the most powerful. So who would be more Powerful?
 * If you played the game, you will notice that he was killed, so Kreia lied. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 13:51, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * My guess is that the "eroding his will" thing HK comes up with never would have occurred to Kreia. Not to ultimately kill him, anyway.  Mistrx75

Sion and vader
ok i was thinkin and darth vader was never able to atchive his full power because of the burns he recived on mustifar George lucas said because of this vader was only able to achive his full power and he posesed 8 tenths of palpatine's power however getting to my point sion seemed to be even more messed up than vader so would this mean sion is also unable to reach his full power. User:Kami-Sama