Talk:Darth Sion/Archive1

Sion alive
I've just read a post on a forum saying it's possible to leave Sion alive on Malachor V. Can someone confirm it? - Sikon 07:46, 23 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * If so, I don't know about it... DAWUSS 01:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Either fanon or cut content. Either way, should not be added or trusted. 168.103.70.82 05:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion/Draay Connection
I know it's supposition, and there is no official word or hint, but just play along if you want. ;P I was pondering over the events of the new KOTOR comics, and the possible meanings being Darth Sion's chosen Sith name. I have come to hypothesize that Darth Sion and Master Lucien Draay might be one-and-the-same. Here's why:


 * We know that Master Draay is "the scion" of a rich and powerful family.
 * We know that the name "Sion" can be derived from "scion" = meaning decendant or heir.
 * Though it's personal opinion, I find their features and build strikingly similar to one another.
 * It's clear that the lengths the masters are willing to go to in order to stop a possible Sith resurgence has driven them to the Dark Side. It is hinted that Draay finally realizes this in issue #9.
 * It is possible that the prophecy of the four Consular Masters might be fulfilled in Lucien (if he becomes Sion) because countless Jedi fall to the Dark Lord's blade.
 * If the Jedi Associate on Coruscant is indeed Kreia, then that would better explain Kreia and Sion's connection and how they came to be Master and Apprentice under the Sith Order.
 * Also interesting to point out would be that his name was spelled "Lusion" in the transcript of the original unveiling of the new KoTOR comic book line (IIRC, at Celebration III).

Again, I know completely well that this is just circumstantial, congectural, and a matter of opinion. I am not holding this as canon or fact, but I did think it might be worth a good mental walk-through. Even if it turns out to be completely false, it's always healthy to think about different things and see how they play out.--Master Dakari 03:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Sion is not Lucian Draay, lets examine why. Lucian has blonde hair and blue eyes, and different facial features. Sion has black eyebrows indicating dark hair, and his eye, that is still in tact is clearly dark brown. This debate of Sion being Lucian, or Alek, or Zayne or Haazen, or any other character from sources othe than TSL is silly, he like Nihilus is none of them, he is his own person, Sion is his only identity, his background which hasn't been revealed to date most likely will get explored in some future reference, be it a web strip, comic, or novel. Darthsion101

@ Darthsion101: Those aren't very good reasons at all. First off, their faces aren't too dissimilar. It's not too much of a stretch for one to be the other. Second, judging off the EYEBROWS, of all things, is beyond amazing. We are in a universe where eye color, skin hue, and other things can be effected deeply by ones connection to the force. I'm sure his SKIN wasn't grey at the beginning, but it is now. And his eye color doesn't matter: Kreia's eye color goes from white to black in the middle of the game. Should I assume they are both different characters? - JusticeAndRule


 * After seeing Lucien Draay in KotOR 18 I've got a hunch that he IS indeed future Darth Sion. Also, their eyebrows are very same as well as their facial features...Darth Paulus 21:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

actually i personally think sion looks more like Haazen, who (like sion) has extreme body damage. also i think sion actually has a posthetic eye. it just shows up as white, like gadon bekks eyes. also isnt it weird that haazeens wounds and sion dark leather (i think thats what it is) covering are located in the exact same place? right arm, right eye, and legs. also th fact that sion goes arond bare chested and yet wears not two, but one glove! thats seem to connect. and as for the whole korriban thing. sion/haazen would have been training there when the original kotor events took place, or even shortly after.thats when the apprentices turned on each other. like you said, this is all just opinion, but i think its worth considering.

if you wish to continue discusing the lucien/ haazen / sion connection, go to my user talk page.HK-47 rebuilt 17:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Then there this quote that happens in KotOR 34: "You shall be…what? Something for the illusions under which you have lived. Darth Luzion, perhaps. Darth Sion?" ―Darth Hayze to Lucien Draay Emperor Time 21:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is the quote that made me believe Lucien was to become Darth Sion. I put something speculative in both of their articles but I guess it wasn't deemed necessary yet. If you ask me the evidence is very strong. Haazen can't be Darth Sion because he is, as he says, Darth Hayze. To my knowledge, no Sith Lord has every changed his/her name. Also, Haazen's lower half is completely mechanical with Grievous-like legs and claws for feet while Sion has legs and boots. With respect to Lucien, I think the fact that he is suffering so much pain at the moment (death of his mother, friends from covenant and the loss of Q'Anilia) that it makes sense he would become the Lord of Pain.
 * Sion's past is given in Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, and Lucien being him is entirely contradictory with it. - Lord Hydronium 01:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with that, but I'm beginning to wonder if that was a typo, and they meant to say the Jedi Civil War instead of the Sith War, as otherwise it makes no sense. Haazen fought in the Sith War. Would he know that Sion was on the Sith's side back then? It's possible, in which case it would be very odd indeed for him to suggest that name for Lucien. - Jediphile 18:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Regardless, it's important to note. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:31, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Haazen looks kinda like Sion, but there's as much proof for him being Sion as there is Lucien. I don't know why we need to include theories proven false. - Lord Hydronium 02:33, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Haazen looks nothing like Sion. Sure, they both have broken bodies, but Haazen has entire bodyparts missing and replaced all sorts of contraptions, while the rest of his body is more or less okay, whereas Sion's body is completely shattered all over and then restructured with no bodyparts missing. - Jediphile 18:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a big difference on that one. Haazen merely looks a bit like him him, while Lucien was given the possible title of Darth Sion. So, while it's probably not going to actually happen considering the Campaign Guide information, it still needs a mention in the BTS. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:36, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, one guy threw out possible names for him in a potential future. That's no more actual evidence of him being Sion than there is for Haazen. As a use of Sion's name, it has a mention in the in-universe section, but that's all it needs. - Lord Hydronium 02:39, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I admit, I hadn't seen it in the Biography before. That seems fine then. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 14:15, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How about in KotOR #35 where Lucien is speaking about his embracing his DESTINY as the Lord of Pain? Granted he didn't actually embrace it yet in that comic but the thought is still presented. Also he was blasted by the Republic fleet along with Haazen (Note Darth Hayze not Darth Sion-once and for all ruling him out) and Lucien is still alive but badly injured. He has also encountered much pain with the death of his mother, Q'anila, all his mother's covenant, etc. He has his own pool of Jedi to slay/apprentice (sith-wise) on his own private moon. and in regards to his face/eyes/eyebrows, his eyebrows are dark as seen in the comics, and his eyes are portrayed in a plethora of colors from blue, to red, to non descript dark. While I did notice that the info box for him said his eyes are blue, for one thing it originally said brown, and also since there have been so many artists for KotOR perhaps they just haven't collaborated and that is why he has so many different colors. Lucien seems to be the most logical choice as Darth Sion.--Anju Vena 01:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * How about the completely different histories and the fact that that passage is about turning away from that destiny? He's not Sion. Unless it's about the article itself—and we wouldn't merge anything unless there was canonical proof that they were the same—any more discussion on this is over. - Lord Hydronium 01:49, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Anju Vena and I are not trying to merge anything. We're simply arguing for the case of Lucien being Sion.  Chill out, bud.  It also says in that same issue that Lucien is going to build a new covenant, one both his mother and father would approve of.  And a lot can happen in as many years.  -- Ve-Sioux Ordo 02:00, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And this is not the place to do so. As the message at the top of this thread states, the talk page is for discussion about the article, not the subject. The only on-topic discussion on this matter would be related to merging. Blocks will be handed out to anyone who continues to carry the discussion off-topic. - Lord Hydronium 02:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For the record..."But you also always want to let your characters find their own fates — and Lucien here tells us what he thinks about being forced into a role created for someone else. The galaxy may get its Darth Sion, but not from him." &mdash; John Jackson Miller.

Case closed. -- Redemption  (Talk) 02:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

He is a Dark Lord. Sorry if you don't agree with canon.
The term "Dark Lord" is used correctly in TSL. All three were "Dark Lords of the Sith". Kreia herself says so "He is one of the Dark Lords", and so does Atris: "She is one of the Lords of the Sith." I have changed both Kreia's and Sion's articles to state this fact from the game. To keep deleting it is to deny canon and what has been established in the game. Regardless of your personal thoughts on the matter, fanon has no place here. Leave the issue alone.--Master Dakari 02:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because one character says it in one line of dialogue, doesn't mean it's canon. I believe "Evil Never Dies" says something to the effect of Darth Nihilus being the last Dark Lord for a long time, despite both Sion and Traya outliving him (I think this is stupid, as Nihilus clearly has no real authority over the other two, nor is his mental state sufficient to desire such a position, let alone to claim the title, but oh well). Are there not also sources which state that, until Kaan and the Brotherhood of Darkness, there was only one Dark Lord at a time? Lieutenant Gerard 22:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Master Dakari, the line "He is one of the Dark Lords" could easily refer to the fact that Nihilus was a Dark Lord, much like Revan and Malak before him. It has no bearing on Darth Sion. And a "Lord of the Sith" is different froma Dark Lord. Too Lieutenant Gerard, I do not believe that Nihilus was, well, to put it simply, a nutcase. He was in a perfect state of mind, it was just that his mind was twisted by the need to feed.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 09:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Marauder?
What's the source for this? If it can't be verified, it's going to be deleted.--Master Dakari 19:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC) actually i think hes an assasain, because all who folow him are. 1) Lucien was already a Jedi Guardian 2) I'm sure in the game Sion is referred to as "one of the Sith Lords" 3) When I played KOTOR 2 one of my characters was a Jedi Guardian who became a Sith Lord (he was still able to use Force Jump). My point being that Sion has more of a chance of being a Sith Lord than a Sith Marauder.
 * Deleted.--Master Dakari 06:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * He should be a Marauder, since he uses Force Jump, and only Jedi Guardians/Jedi Weaponmasters/Sith Marauders do in-game.--Jedabak 18:37, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If we are going to assume that Sion is/was Lucien, then he would not have to be a Sith Marauder to use Force Jump.

However this is all still speculation and no matter whatever the facts will be, will be. User:Makashi_Master 17:28, 09 May 2008 (UTC)

Teräs Käsi
His description says he knows Teräs Käsi. Is there any factual basis for this comment? If not, it should be removed. If there is, a note on the Teräs Käsi page should be added pointing out how long the fighting style has been around. --DannyBoy7783 06:26, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't believe there is a source. And being that Sion only fought with a lightsaber, its impossible to tell. Sounds like fanon. Redemption 06:49, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Fighting with just a lightsaber doesn't mean that he didn't use Teräs Käsi in his battles. Go check the description for the fighting style and you'll know what I mean. I agree though, it does sound like a bit of reaching is going on here in this article. I haven't played the game so I know next to nothing about the character but I do know that Teräs Käsi is rarely mentioned.
 * The game doesn't mention Teräs Käsi. Kill it. If it turns out to be in the NEC, it's never too late to insert it back. - Sikon [ Talk ] 08:12, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Indeed there is no mention that he was a master of Teras Kasi. He did throw some kicks and basic martial arts movements during duels in game, but there is no official evidence stating he mastered Teras Kasi. So I agree, it should be taken out, unless there is a viable source. It could always be re-entered at a later date. Darthsion101

Name
Apparently there is a suffix "-sion" meaning "break" or "crack" or something to that effect. I think that makes a lot more sense than "heir" for his name... Rod

Also, 'invaSION' could have some role. Just like Darth Vader- inVADER.

Makashi + Dun Möch + Djem So?

 * Can someone please source this? Especially Djem So, it does not appear in any product until ROTS Novel. So how can Sion mastered it? Or it was intented to mean the classic Form V known as Shien? Plus, i don't believe Dun Möch was in the game. Thanks. Darth Kevinmhk 09:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It probably comes from KotOR II's Combat Feedback page. It's the page where the system shows how it calculates, damage taken, inflicted, and anything else related to the gaming system. Djem So is of course impossible, it's Shien at best. - TopAce 13:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Changed Djem So to Shien. Darth Kevinmhk 14:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Nihilus is Sion's Master?
Can anyone confirm what is said here-

Sion is listed here for the reason that he was a Dark Lord of the Sith, under Darth Nihilus, but he died before he actually succeeded to the mantle. He did not have the status of an apprentice, nor that of a complete equal; he was fully trained, but wasn't strong enough to take complete control from Nihilus, nor did he intend to; all that mattered to Sion was the total death of the Jedi Knights.

I was under the impression that the "Rule of Two" was not in effect at this point, and that the Lords Nihilus and Sion were at one point equals under the command of Darth Traya.

I've played K2, and when you view the cutscene where Traya is unsurped, Sion is the major unsurper. Nihilus just watched. I don't remember anything talking about Nihilus taking control, and Sion becoming the apprentice.

-Admiral Chamrajngar 14:13, 20 April 2006


 * Hm. Pure fanon. Truth is that we know next to nothing about Sion and how he came to be. Sion and Nihlius were both equals under Traya. Sion has never served Nihilus. --Redemption 18:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Chances are, it is a typo. Remember, Darth Traya and Darth Kreia were once stated as being two seperate people, but the corrections to remedy this mistake came too late; for the book was already published. Never in the game does the idea of Sion being Nihilus's apprentice come about. They were both the leaders of their own independent sects. With both being Sith Lords, all 3 were co-equal Dark Lords of the Sith, according to Kreia - and with Bane's "Rule-of-Two" not in effect until about 3,000 years to come - then all other canon outside of this one source says neither was the other's apprentice. Also, read what Visas tells the Jedi Exile: "I am not familiar with the planet you speak of - my Master has not entered Republic space for some time. [...] But there are others, who may move freely, who may have been responsible for such an act of destruction. [...] There are many factions within the Sith, all seeking to take what little remains in the wake of the Jedi Civil War. [...] Where one moves, it is not always known by the others. But their purpose is the same - the death of all Jedi, everywhere." Nothing that she says suggests that the two are linked in any way, other than they are both Sith and they both seek the utter destruction of the Jedi Order. We only know that they were both apprentices to Traya because of what we see in the "Kreia's Fall" cutscene where she describes her banishment from the Sith Order, and by what Kreia tells us personally. So again, I agree and say that what is found in the Visual "Guide" is either a typo or mis-informantion on the writer's part. Plus, considering how they put Atris's portrait above the bio of Brianna, then this isn't too far off of a guess. I have found quite a few things wrong in that book, and this is just another added to the pile. P.S. Also remember that some of the writers of these books have never even played some of the games they write about. That alone can lead to many errors that are often overlooked by editors, etc.--Master Dakari 00:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC) If you look more closely it is Nihilus who casts Traya out. When he force pushes her it is assumed that he drains her of the force. Kreia regains her powers when she drains the three Jedi Masters of the force. If you listen when Kreia is cast out she says after Nihilus blasts her "They're are techniques in the force against which there is no defense. When she tries to use the force to grab her saber she cannot the force was drained from her. Councilor &#39;Rumilee 16:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's fanon, then perhaps that information should be taken out of the article....
 * Okay, first, those three were the Sith Triumverate before Traya was cast out. None of them had complete control over the other. After she was cast out, it was the same thing. It was a sect, not an Empire. Nihilus basically went where he wanted to. Also, when asking Visas about her master and asking "Was he the one who destroyed Peragus?", she replies "My Master did not cause the death of the planet you speak of." If Nihilus sent Sion there, she probably would've known about it. 168.103.70.82 05:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Its not fanon. Quote EXACTLY and DIRECTLY from Star Wars The Ultimate Visual Guide, page 27, under the round-edge picture of Sion, "Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, is the Sith apprentice to Darth Nihilus.  His body parts are held to gether by sheer will and hatred."  You want me to prove it?  GO and read the book at Barnes and Nobles or at the Library (remember, page 27).
 * Ok, then it should be in the article. Traya --> Nihilus --> Sion Charlii 05:41, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't know if this counts, but when you're talking to Kreia about Visas in the game, she says exactly this: "She serves one of the greatest Sith, she is the most trusted... AND ONLY APPRENTICE. Yet you spare her. Why?" (I wasn't yelling, just wanted to make those words stand out) Is this enough to disprove that statement? I might be wrong, but I thought the game took preference over books about the game. And I know someone will point out the fact that Kreia lies a lot, which sounds like a suitable argument to me. I just wanted to see if this changes things. And the line about Sion in the book could be a typo that was meant to read Darth Traya instead of Nihilus, it's probably happened before. speculate away.
 * Actually I think it would be hard to make a typo between the differences of Sion and Traya. Also, the NEC writers not only had to write hundreds of pages of text, but they are not the same writers as the writers of the Ultimate Visual Dictionary.  The Writers of the UVD had to not only write the whole canon of Star Wars from the first era to the last happening, but they had to expand on other stories and similiar events.  I prefer to look at a Book that was written by intelligent authors rather than a game that had many screw-ups, that had an RP that could go anywhere, and was confusing canon wise.  It left more questions than answers.  Obviously, the Rule of Two was not in place because of the Triumvirate (sp?).  The Rule of Two was put into place by Darth Bane.  Although Revan had used the Rule of Two to train Malak, Nihilus did not use it himself. P.S. Also remember that some of the writers of these books have never even played some of the games they write about, remember, it could go both ways.  Maybe the creators of the game have never even looked at another Star Wars book, movie, or game.  The UVD is also interwined with all the other movies, books, and games, and this makes it more valuable.  I think it should be changed back.
 * I think Sion's more of Nihilus' most trusted adviser or second-in-command than an apprentice. Krayt had an adviser, why not Nihilus? DarthWill3 04:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Religious Background
I thought that "Sion" was a character in The Bible, is there any relation between Darth Sion and Sion? --Clone Paratrooper 20:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I dunno. Don't read the thing. I do know that his nae is derived from what I think is a latin name, scion, meaning "heir". That's all I know. 168.103.70.82 05:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually that would be Zion and it describes a location, not a person.– 22:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Wrong. Actually Sion comes from Scion, as in "The Last Scion". --The truth hurts... 23:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Sion a Reborn Jedi?
I was wondering because since his skin is cracked pale and blind in one eye. could Darth Traya have found a Jedi and reconstructed his body? --[IP # 24.215.175.227]

NO, Sion was a sith student before he even met Traya. As he states at one point to the exile before he duels him at Trayus, I believe the exact quote was "I was there on Korriban, when the sith turned on one another like beasts." He was one of the few to escape into the unknown. His flesh is cracked and scarred from years of battle, and wounds that should have been fatal, but because of his power, were not. DarthSion101

Box
I added a succession box that says "Leader of the Sith" since everyone seems to think that the triumvirate didn't count as Dark Lords.SithPower 22:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Edit its info just like the others. Darth Kevinmhk 03:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Image
Any special reason for not using this pic? If you ask me it's much better than the screencap we currently have. Charlii 20:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I can't stand that image. The image is really not the best represenation of Sion. Colors are weird, his face is hidden in some places...The only thing I can think of that could possibly come from that image is his lightsaber design. -Redemption 20:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, well I guess I can agree, it's just that I prefer drawn images to screencaps. Maybe I could add/replace it somewhere else in the article? That fuzzy meditation pic for example. Charlii 06:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The face doesn't look like the real Sion... Too small anyway... 168.103.70.82 05:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Revision
I tried to polish up some of the phrasing in the article, changing a few words and phrases, hopefully making them a little easier to read. DAWUSS 01:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion's race?
The article currently lists Sion as a human, but throughout KotOR II, I don't think he ever says what race he is. Have I missed something, or is that an assumption? From his appearance, he looks like he could be any humanoid.

He's human. His facial features can only mean human. He can't be Chiss, he'd have to have Red Eyes. And he can't be one of those beautiful people ( I forget what they're called). They never venture outside their borders... 168.103.70.82 05:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The only species, other than human, that I can think of as possible for him to be is Kiffar, Ubese, Mirialan or Tof. He clearly isn't a Chiss, Nagai, Arkanian, Miraluka, Zeltron, "Elf", Chev, Hapan or Dantari. Still, five options is a bit too much, we shouldn't assume anything. Charlii 18:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you people totally soft? Hes clearly a human being. Debating about his species is pointless, given hes a bit tattered, but he is every bit as human as Malak, or Revan.
 * There is no reason to be rude. If you look around the Wooki on near-human species, for example the ones I mentioned, you'll see that they differ very little from ordinary humans, and that the mutilated appearance of Sion makes it impossible to tell if he is human or not. Charlii 21:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "He looks human but he's fractured in several places..." Never leave an arguement open ended like that. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Uglykotoricon.svg|15px]] 22:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * hes humanoid, leave it at that, theres no point speculating further Jedi Dude 22:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Sion preferring Malak's leadership
This is an assumption. Sion respects Malak more than Revan with hindsight, because Revan chose to abandon the Sith Empire (both canonically as a light-sider and in the dark side ending) as such they fractured. It's nothing to do with which leadership style he 'prefers', or which he thinks is the more powerful - it's just a case of "Revan turned his back on the Sith, Malak didn't". (Ulicus 20:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Full name?
In the new trailer for Team Gizka's TSL Restoration Mod, it sounds like Kreia is referring to Darth Sion by another name in the scene where she says "So, (sounds like a name), can it be you still have feelings for the (illegible)?" Yeah. I can still hear it perfectly with my speakers at a low volume. NihilusReborn 17:25, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Turn your volume up a bit more. (Odd how whenever I view it I can hear everything perfectly) She says. "How touching. Can it be you still have feelings within that shell?" -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] Talk 01:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Why do fans like Sion
Why do fans like Sion, is a question that I find myself pondering on. How can anyone like him the Exile broke a sith lords mind. A SITH LORD'S MIND WAS BROKEN. Without much persaunsion. That is like Mara Jade breaken Darth vader's mind. How is that even possible. He was so powerful, but yet fail to words instead of a blade
 * The only people I've ever encountered that actually said they like him was because of the accent (like the Bao-Dur fangirls). To most, he is just another character. No real like or dislike for him. BUT, this is all beside the point here. Doesn't matter if any of us like him or not. He is a Star Wars character. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 03:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought he was an interesting character, but this really isn't the place to discuss this.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocron[[Image:Sith_Emblem.svg|20px]] 14:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Darth Sion is one of the most powerful sith in the fact that he wouldn't have died had the exile not used dun monch to break his will. the reason being that he used his pain to get dark side, which kept him alive, making him more powerful, which caused him to have more pain, which kept him alive, and contined on in an endless cycle. -Darth Sion

Quotes
Where are these quotes coming from? I don't remember Sion even mentioning Malak, or offering the Exile power. And I know his final line is "I'm glad to leave this place" rather than "I'm glad to finally have peace." Is there a source outside of the game that provide these quotes? Mistrx75 02:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it depends on your character. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 14:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Kreia and Sion
Why did Sion join Kreia after he slash off her hand. I thought that they were eneimes.

Right Arm?
Is it just me or does Sions right arm look Mechanicle? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 12:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a glove. And no, he's not Haazen - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 13:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a glove. NihilusReborn 17:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I never said anything about that! and what's the point of the glove? Valin &quot;Tnu&quot; &quot;Shido&quot; Suul 20:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably raw flesh underneath it. Sort of like a layer of skin. Nasty stuff like that. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 20:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "It's a glove. And no, he's not Haazen" I was actually about to say the same thing. As to its purpose... maybe he just wanted to wear a glove on one arm, and nothing on the other. Who knows?--Master Dakari 04:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, he uses the Force to keep his body in one piece ... maybe his right arm is harder to keep together than his left. ;) Actually it seems that whenever someone has a mechanical arm, they prefer wearing gloves over it (Luke, Jan Ors), but no reason to think Sion has that. I thought it was just for protection anyway, kind of like a shield-arm. And yes, definitely a glove. It's just the same style as the boots. VictoryClassWoman 02:41, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It may just be an imitadation technique. Like "Look at my arm! You don't know whats under this glove do you!" I know it sounds stupid, but most Sith do like to manipulate and scare sentients. I can't remember the term for it, but I think I recall seeing it in the "Sith" section... _Kath.Hound 14:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Whats your source? how do you know its just a glove?HK-47 rebuilt 02:19, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because we have no reason to say otherwise. And speculation isn't reason. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 02:43, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Saying it's something other than a glove is like saying Revan's hood was not actually a hood. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Cut Comtent
KOTOR 2 planned to have Atton face Sion instead of the Exile. Why did they change it. This seems to be better move
 * No, Obsidian always intended for Sion to face both - just at different times. They remove Atton and Sions face off for the same reason they removed everything else: lack of time. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Darth Sion
Has anyone else besides me just beat KOTOR 2. Because I did and Sion was pitiful. Why would they do that to him. He was tight and they mess him up. Please tell me that was mistake or something

With TSL Restoration coming out, we will have all the restored material, and will be canon as long as there is no conflictions.
 * No it won't. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 22:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Main image
Quick vote on the main image to avert a potentially pointless edit war. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Image 1

 * 1)  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e5/ATATatarismall.png 17:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) The second image has always seemed somehow weird to me. It looks as if Sion had a beard. TopAce 18:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) As if another vote was needed...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 20:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Definitely. Evir Daal 11:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Image 2

 * 1) It might lack in detail, but it wins on art quality. That screencap is ugly. Charlii 20:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The second image has more depth and is more profilic for the infobox, the sreencap is definately not right.User:Darth Sacrus
 * 1) Definately the second image its more visually pleasing and the sreen cap is boring.User:Darth Vindictus
 * 2) I dont like either of them but if it has to be one id say the second one,it says sith lord more to me rather than with his hands dangling at his side looking unimpressive. User:KickAssJedi

Comments
Second image is much more descriptive
 * Personally I dont think either of them are great, the second one definately belongs in the info-box more than the first one though, what we need is a head and shoulders profile screencap of sion with his lightsaber ignited but on Malachor V instead of korriban as the sandy yellow brown colour means he doesnt stand out much Malachor was also his final apperance-User:KickAssJedi
 * 3 things. Firstly, sign in when voting, so we can confirm votes are from who you say you are. Secondly, you are not 2 people. Don't vote more than once with 2 different names. Thirdly, that image is hardly more descriptive. You can't even see his mouth, despite the fact it's a picture of his face. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 18:02, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Power
In the game Kreia says he is not able to be killed, so wouldn't that make him invincible? If so, that would mean that he would be the most powerful Sith Lord, but in Star wars Episode III, it says that Darth Plagueis was the most powerful, but also in Episode III it says Vader is the most powerful. So who would be more Powerful?
 * If you played the game, you will notice that he was killed, so Kreia lied. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 13:51, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * My guess is that the "eroding his will" thing HK comes up with never would have occurred to Kreia. Not to ultimately kill him, anyway.  Mistrx75
 * She probably knew or guessed that it *might* work, but then she would also know that the Exile was more suited to talking to Sion. Just another test for the Exile, as well as a way for Kreia to get rid of Sion. So, I don't know if Kreia lied or what, but for the original question, I don't think the article needs to say who is more powerful. VictoryClassWoman 02:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Sion and vader
ok i was thinkin and darth vader was never able to atchive his full power because of the burns he recived on mustifar George lucas said because of this vader was only able to achive his full power and he posesed 8 tenths of palpatine's power however getting to my point sion seemed to be even more messed up than vader so would this mean sion is also unable to reach his full power. User:Kami-Sama
 * Probable, likely even. But trust me, Vader was "more messed up" than Sion following his duel with Kenobi. Jasca Ducato 19:14, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks but i consider sion more messed up like in the medical logs it says all of his bones were splinter and fracherd several times and then put togevther plus all of his flesh was cracked and dameged werst vader just lost 4 limbs and sufferd burns across his intire body.
 * Difference is that Sion had learned to convert his pain into power and keep himself going. Vader needed the suit. VictoryClassWoman 04:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No, the difference is that Sion still had his arms and legs.  09:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry I mean other than the limbs, which were already mentioned. But yes, that's the biggest difference.VictoryClassWoman 15:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Vader also didn't have his lungs, so he needed his armour user:raltaran

Redeemed?
Was Sion redeemed by the Exile? the article says: "before vanishing into the light side of the Force". That statment implies that he was redeemed, since he "vanished into the light side". So is that the case? Was he was actually redeemed? If he was, then shouldn't he be added to the redeemed Jedi category? 70.17.153.31 03:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * We have no evidence he "vanished into the light side of the Force". That shouldn't be in the article. Jasca Ducato undefined 09:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Then what should be done with it? _Kath.Hound 14:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Remove it.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 20:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * He wasnt redeemed he simply let go of his pain, as that was the only thing that held him together he died.-TheDarkKnight 21:05, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Assuffixation
Sion is simply a transitive suffix,it is not a full word in and of itself,if it is meant to be breviate form of Corrosion,then the name should most properly be 'Sion,since both corrosion and erosion both stem from the Latin rodere to gnaw . Sochwa 23:51, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Sith Marauder?
Where is it stated that Sion is a Sith Marauder? Yeah, I know that his class is a Jedi Guardian, {game mechanicss, if you run far enough away from him in the Trayus Academy, he will use Force jump after you, and since only Guardians can do that, he is a Guardian.} He doesn't have to be a Sith Marauder, he could be a Sith Warrior. Also, I hate to be off subject, but where does it ever say in the game that Sion preferred Malak's leadership to Revan's? Is this only in the P.C. version or something? Because I've played the game a zillion times, and he NEVER says such a thing.--Jedi Kasra 03:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC) listen, the line is there, so either you have amnesia,or you havent beaten the game. as i have said before(on the exiles talk page) that if you dont know what your talking about, research it then speak. otherwise you look stupid. redemtion taught that to me on my first day editing wookieepedia,
 * Not only Jedi Guardians can perform Force Jump, so that is wrong. And he says it during their duel in the Trayus Academy.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 07:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, by looking at his UTC file, it classifies him as a Jedi guardian. Some food for thought. And as for his line about Malak...I can't seem to find it. I've searched through all the dlgs and it doesn't seem to come up. How odd as I could have sworn I heard it. Hm...-- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 08:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, according to the game mechanics, he is a Guardian, since they are the only ones who can do that feat in-game.--Jedi Kasra 09:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Shame he didn't teach you how to sign your comments.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Edits
In reading this article, I noticed some grammatical errors, and since I'm a stickler for that kind of thing, I was wondering if there might be some way for me to correct those errors. Can anyone give me any help? I'm only asking since the article is protected. Vorian Halcyon 03:30, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorted.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 19:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

New Main Image
In my opinion this image would be better for the main picture of Sion than the current one.



We should probably take a vote between the two.--Jedi Kasra 21:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * We already did. In-game wins out. Can't even see half of his face...shit. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 21:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not a fan of the NEC image. Game one is way better --  AdmirableAckbar  [Talk] 23:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Definetely the other image. This one barely looks like Sion.Maxi6 00:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6

Eye
Can someone tell me why his eye is brown? Does it have to do with the pain and the holding the body together?Maxi6 00:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6
 * Have you considered that he might have brown eyes naturally?  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 09:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

No, not really. It's possible, though.Maxi6 20:35, 15 December 2007 (UTC)Maxi6

Do you think he lost his right eye that he had to use a replacement from some dead Arkanian? Yuch!!! 72.209.10.107 23:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

If doesn't have to do with color but Kreia did say "He can't kill what he can't see and power blinded him long ago". Later she was able to walk around him easily... then he cut off her hand. He also battled the Exile very intensely (as any Sith Lord must) and he also looks directly at the Exile while speaking to her (possible laziness by programers or Force Sight). Here is my theory: He was blind at one point but sometime in between his last meeting with Kreia and his reappearance he regained sight. Maybe this is a result of the kolta tank.
 * Kreia's not to be taken literally many times. If she was, we could say the Jedi Council members were blind and deaf. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Sion
Why did Sion join Kriea the last time on Malchor 5. I thought he hated her.

Sith lord
He was a great sith lord in the first part of the game, then he lost to the exile, so why did he join Kriea? He said he hated her


 * (You sign your comments with four '~'s, not four '-'s) Firstly, Sion was never a Sith Lord despite what Kreia says in one line of dialogue. Second, Kreia was Sion's mentor and, despite his hatred, I think Kreia was able to 'manipulate' (for lack of a better word) him in to joining her, if someone can give a better explanation, please do 84.45.134.188 08:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Sion was a Sith Lord. He was the Sith Apprentice to Darth Traya along with Darth Nihilus, then they did exactly what Revan warned Bane not to do (sort of). They stripped the Force from her and cast her out of the Sith Order. "Any Master who trains more than one Apprentice in the dark side is a fool." Nihilu sthen became the Dark Lord of the Sith, and Sion and he went their seperate ways. It is said that Sion was one of the Sith Lords who escaped from Korriban after the Jedi Civil War, but whether he was a Sith Master or not is uncomfirmed.--Zhran 05:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Based on Rome
Could the alliance between Sion,Traya, and Nihlus be based on the real triumvirate between Pompey ceaser and Crassus in Rome ?

Darth Sion vs Zayne Carrick

 * "In 2008, Darth Sion was featured in a Dark Horse ad for the Knights of the Old Republic miniatures pack, fighting Zayne Carrick."
 * Can we get an image for this please? Pretty please? :) --Kessel 21:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It wasn't actually really dueling; if I remember correctly, they never crossed blades. There was a panel of Sion with a lightsaber ignited, and this closeup:


 * - Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Great. I think this would make a fairly good profile picture. --Kessel 15:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean for the infobox, then I disagree. The facial structure and emotions aren't even close to Sion. -  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Sion?
I was reading the article called "Behind the Threat: The Sith, Part 1: Portrayal" on the Wizards of the Coast website, and near the bottom of the article in the section entitled "Crafting the Sith" there is an image that is clearly meant to portray Darth Sion; his ruined body is visible and he has a prosthetic right eye. However, this eye is glowing red instead of being a milky white... exactly like Haazen's. To avoid being berated for speculating, I'm not even going to bring up the oft-used subject of Sion being Haazen. However, the image interested me and I was wondering if this could tell us anything. Feel free to share your thoughts.216.195.184.65 11:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * To be honest, I think the red glow was purely for dramatic effect (cue wails of "eeeeeviiiil!"). Very nice find though. I think it should replace DarthSion.jpg on the page. :) --Kessel 21:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I contest the decision to revert the image. This image is far more detailed, and I have not yet seen citation verifying that it is indeed concept art. --Kessel 15:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It's not concept art, it was done by Wizards of the Coast for their "Behind the Threat article. –K.A.J•T•C•E• 16:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I know. Drewton had stated that it was concept art. --Kessel 17:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That picture might be more detailed, but it doesn't look like Sion at all. The first time I saw it, I really wouldn't have guessed it was him if I hadn't seen the eye, which is red instead of white as it's supposed to be. It's more like Bane, actually. Sion's no where near that bulky. Look at the size of that hand; it's more than half the size of his head. The New Essential Chronology image, on the contrary, looks like the Sion model from TSL. We also have a much better image of him in a similar costume from the Campaign Guide. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 18:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It's called artistic licencse, you said the image from the minitures pack didnt look Sion either. That's what happens when a video game charcters is transfered to artwork. It's still a canocial representation of Sion. –K.A.J•T•C•E• 18:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean the campaign guide, where did I say that? That one and the Essential Chronology portrait both look like Sion, and they're paintings/art, so it's clearly not a matter of artistic license with the image suggested. Even if it's canonical, it's not very good. Would you rather have Scott Hepburn images for all of the main characters of the KOTOR comic series? Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 20:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Age

 * Well, since it has come to light that Sion was in the Brotherhood of the Sith, it would seem he is far older than originally thought: at least in his 70s, and with over 40 years more dark side experience than any of Revan's Sith. It may also mean that his body was broken long before he studied under that upstart whippersnapper (!) Darth Traya, since as an old-school Sith it's unlikely he was wounded in defense of the Republic at the Battle of Malachor V. So this opens up a whole new can of worms - if he didn't fall to the dark side with the Revanchists, what was he doing between 3,996 BBY and 3,951 BBY?
 * I also suppose this also knocks flat the speculation that Sion is Lucien Draay... --Kessel 10:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

That must've been when Exar Kun became the Dark Lord. Do you think Sion was a Jedi during that time and turned to the dark side? 72.209.10.107 23:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't have been anything else. I doubt he was a non-Jedi, anyway. --Kessel 21:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

So far the first known Darth?
Sions article says that he took his sith name in the Great Sith War. His Sith name was Darth Sion so Am I wrong when I say that this moves him far before Darth Revan and thus making him the first known Darth?--ScorpiO 11:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no basis for saying he took his sith name during the Great Sith War that I know of. I believe the KotOR campaign guide states he fought in the Sith War, which seems to suggest the Great Sith War (a.k.a. "The Exar Kun war"), but it might be ambiguous, since the conflict between the Sith of Revan and Malak and the Republic (the one you reach the end of in the KotOR1 computer game) is called The Jedi Civil War in the sequel (TSL), but "The Second Sith War" in Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force. So IIRC that the campaign guide says simply "Sith War", then it could actually be either conflict. Even if it is the Great Sith War, that doesn't mean he took a sith title then. He might have called himself Sion, but that doesn't mean he used the "darth" title. Even if he did, he would still be subordinate to both Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. But even if that is the case, I sincerely doubt he'd be first "Darth", since Haazen takes the name "Darth Hayze" in the KotOR comic book, issue 34. Now that's about 40 years after the Great Sith War, yet he takes the name saying "were I to take a name like the Sith of old," which means the title goes back long before that. Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force also suggests the title traces its origin back to the rakatan empire, which would make it ancient indeed. Some speculate the first Darth might have been Darth Andeddu, though that may only because we have no idea when he lived, I guess. Jediphile 02:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not say that he was the first one, I sad that he is probably so far the first recorded sith in history with darth title (it was of course before Darth Vitus character was created). I did not read the kotor campaign guide but in sions own article, there is written that he became darth sion in the great sith war. So I suggest that it makes him the firs darth at last in the old sith wars. (of course we have stil the issue with hazzen but for now I let it be)--ScorpiO 09:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Apperances
When did Sion appear in The Force Unleashed? I've played the game and I don't remember him being in it.Obiwan3000 02:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC) Oh. Thanks.Obiwan3000 16:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a skin for downloadable content. See here. - Lord Hydronium 04:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it ok to put this?
Is it ok to put that Sion told the Exile that Kreia would not just break her, but make her fall and die as well? He does say that and it gives more detail on Kreia's ultimate plan.