Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Winter Celchu


 * ''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

(10 Inqs/8 Users/18 total)
Support
 * 1)  - breathesgelatin Talk 00:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 2)  Greyman ( Paratus ) 04:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Jediknight19bby 14:17, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Mir  len  16:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Great article. Darthchristian   ( Hey! ) 18:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Chack Jadson 00:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) (copied from old Inq page) It's just now getting nommed?  —Xwing328(Talk) 18:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) Ozzel 04:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) Wonderful article. Jedi Master Fiolli 15:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) --Goodwood 23:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 11) Jorrel [[Image:Wiki-shrinkable.png|20px]] Fraajic 03:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 12)  Jaina Solo ( Talk ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 11:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 13)  Gonk  ( Gonk! ) 20:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 14) Green Tentacle (Talk) 22:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 15) --Eyrezer 02:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 16) --  Darth Culator  (Talk) 23:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 17) Thefourdotelipsis 02:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 18) Impressive.  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 14:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Oppose breathesgelatin ]]Talk 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like just a bit more detail from X-wing: Mandatory Retirement. IIRC, Winter doesn't just help plan the assault and extraction- she participates in it. I could be wrong, though. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:33, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll talk to Xwing328 about this. First, I don't have that comic (I'm waiting for Omnibus 3 to arrive, which it hasn't yet, from Amazon), and second, I'm in France and away from my comics. I'll contact Xwing because he wrote the original text and see if he's willing to help out.  - breathesgelatin Talk 11:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey! I just responded and will try to help out tonight, but I don't know how much more time I will have. *EDIT* That is, unless Ataru already did what he wanted. —Xwing328 (Talk) 03:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I took care of it. ;-) I figure that since I had the comics, I'd just go ahead and do the expansion. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 21:47, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Only had a quick glance but Image:Tychowinter6.jpg isn't sourced and can we lose the bullets in BtS? Green Tentacle (Talk) 11:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sourced the pic and fixed the Bts. —Xwing328 (Talk) 03:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the stuff from Rebel Dawn needs expanding. Specifically, it mentions her and Leia receiving training, how she once met Palpy and that she promised to try and persuade Bail Organa to sign Alderaan up for the Alliance. Also, shouldn't this come before the part about her being Targeter, since the Alliance doesn't exist at this point? Green Tentacle (Talk) 09:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Bah, this is an excellent point but another it's another book I don't have (and again I'm in France). Perhaps someone could help me out? Or does Rebel Dawn happen to be on the Russian site?  - breathesgelatin Talk 20:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I now have a copy of Rebel Dawn and I have expanded the section in question quite a bit, as well as reordered that section to put it into chronological order.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a great article and I'm sure I'll be supporting it shortly. However, a couple of small things:
 * "Her time under the alias "Targeter" was cut short, however, when Imperial spies discovered and eliminated the Rebel cell on Averam." Was Winter stationed there? Can this be stated?
 * " Around 0.5 ABY, she was helping coordinate arms shipments on Drunost" Anymore information? There may not be.
 * "Also at Tycho Celchu left a memorial for his fiancée Nyiestra" There is something missing here.
 * "Winter provided assistance by using her perfect recall to provide Luke with a physical description and other pertinent information about C'Boath" Had Winter encountered C'Boath before?
 * In the paragraph on Ackbar's decline, care/caring are used twice in the same sentence and aiding twice in close proximity. Can this be reworded? --Eyrezer 06:35, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The next few comments will be my reply to Eyrezer. First, the Tycho memorial grammar is fixed.
 * Winter's time under the name Targeter and its use on Averam is discussed in The Last Command very explicitly. She discusses with Leia after being disturbed that Mara knew of "Targeter." As noted in the BTS, this seems to be somewhat in conflict with subsequent sources but without it that whole plotline in TLC wouldn't make sense. I can't cite pages now b/c I'm in France away from my books. It's probably something that deserves a retcon considering Mike Stackpole's X-Wing books and comics but doubt that will ever happen. I admit it's a questionable situation but I structured the article around the best information we have and tried to clarify in the BTS.
 * The arms shipment on Drunost was added by someone else from a brief mention in Allegiance, which I haven't finished. I do however have the book in France and will try to get through it ASAP to see if there's any more to add.
 * Eliminated some of the wordiness in the Ackbar section. See what you think.
 * I'd have to check the books (again, I'm in a double bind being abroad), but I believe she not see C'Boath in person, but had seen holovids of him. It's explicitly discusses when she is talking to Luke abou C'Boath in Dark force Rising.  - breathesgelatin Talk 20:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am about 2/3 of the way through Allegiance now. I don't think much more can be added on Winter except the blurb about Drunost, but I am going to add some clarification and a bit of expansion to the article regarding her role in that regard. Furthermore, on the "Targeter" issue, I have slightly altered the wording in the "Early Missions" section to clarify the point... It's still confusing but I don't know how to fix it since sources conflict....  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Source the birthdate. QuentinGeorge 07:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC) (Strike all subsequent objections based on this too)
 * That's actually been there forever and I don't know what the source is, unless it's Star Wars chronicles or something. Or possibly... I should check the source books. Let me get back to you on that one.  - breathesgelatin Talk 20:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, the Chronicles books says that Sheltay has "recently returned from maternity leave" when she's serving Bail in ROTS. Now, I'm not sure how long she took for maternity leave. It could have been anywhere from six months to 2 years. QuentinGeorge 21:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Winter's age is stated as being 28 in her stat block in the Dark Force Rising Sourcebook, the same as Leia; though, since they now disregard Pellaeon's age of "70+" from that same book, take it or leave it with a grain of salt. jSarek 10:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Per Rebel Dawn, Chapter 2, "Winter smiled. "I'm a year and a few months older than the princess. I just turned seventeen. That's the age of responsibility on Alderaan."
 * I think it could use a brief mention of Tycho's capture by the Imps just to explain why Corran would distrust him. Green Tentacle (Talk) 15:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added this.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hate to be a pain, but doesn't the Rebel Dawn novel date from a period when the EU assumption for Leia's birthyear was 18 BBY? When is the book set? If it's set in 3 BBY, then Winter would be born in 20 BBY (and perhaps mistaken about Leia's birthdate). QuentinGeorge 03:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I see the relevance of an OOU assumption. If Winter stated IU that she was a year older, I don't see how she could also have an OOU assumption. --Eyrezer 03:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's how. Rebel Dawn is set 2 BBY. If Winter claims to have "just turned 17", then she was born 19 BBY, which is the same year as Leia, not a year and a few months before hand. Winter is either 17 in 2 BBY, or "a year and a few months before Leia" (20 or 21 BBY). She can't be born in both year. So, keeping in mind such a contradiction (which, as I've stated, comes from EU assumptions about Leia's age in ANH), we have to decide whether Winter is stating her age accurately, but not its relation to Leia's age, or states the difference of the ages correctly and gets her own age wrong (or rounds up, or exaggerates, or lies, etc). Either way, the age issue needs an extensive footnote itself. QuentinGeorge 04:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see the light. Not sure how to fix but a footnote will have to do I guess. --Eyrezer 04:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've added a footnote. Would people like to look it over, critique, change etc, particularly those more knowledgeable than me on this particular character? My main inclination is that there are more sources that point to Winter being born a few months prior to Leia, and that perhaps Winter simply doesn't know Leia's exact age. QuentinGeorge 06:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * From the desk of Ataru
 * 1.2.1- "meting"-->"meeting"
 * 1.2.1, Para 2, shouldn't there be a comma before the "but" in line 2
 * 1.2.1, Para 2, First line of the sentence doesn't read well, especially the first part.
 * 1.2.1, Para 3, I'm pretty sure there's a comma error or two in the second sentence.
 * 1.2.2, Para 1, capitalize "rebel"- it's a faction name, not a general adjective.
 * 1.2.2, Para 1, needs a comma after "Soon thereafter"
 * 1.2.2, Could use some more explanation of why the city/moff came under attack.
 * Don't have the source for that.
 * I noticed this was struck out but I didn't think it had actually been addressed. So I addressed it. Is what I added enough? [[User:Breathesgelatin| -
 * I actually clarified it a little bit, so the strike was intentional, but it looks even better with the bit more info. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 14:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1.2.3, Para 1, needs a comma after the "Together"
 * 1.2.3, Para 1, "took chase" doesn't sound right- reword, please.
 * 1.2.3, Para 1, "failing"-->"failed"
 * 1.3, Para 1, remove comma after Dlarit.
 * 1.3, Para 3, remove comma after imprisoned
 * 1.3, Para 4, first few sentences don't read well. Let's have the part about the Rogue's resignations go first to lay the foundation for what Winter did.
 * 1.3, Para 4, in some senses-->, in some senses, a
 * Actually it's just better without "in some senses" at all. Too wordy on my part.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1.3, Para 4, move the comma to after the "and"
 * Where?
 * 1.3, Para 4, needs more context for return to the New Republic.
 * Couldn't find the book in my collection.
 * Do you consider this addressed?  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1.4, Para 1: Factual correction: Han and Leia weren't threatened by assassination. Noghri kidnapping of Leia and her unborn twins was the danger. Nowhere did Thrawn ever order their deaths.
 * 1.4 Para 5, remove comma after children
 * 1.4 Para 6, "was likely to be the site" could be reworded to read better
 * 1.5- could use some explanation of who Terpfen was. You could just make it "Ackbar's brainwashed aide" or something similar.
 * 1.6- seeing "old age" twice in the same sentence says poor diction to me.
 * P&T- "many" commented on her namesake? I thought it was just Tycho. I could be wrong here though.
 * Well many made similar comments, eg that she is a cold person. It's fine though.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * P&T- end of first paragraph is not fully referenced.
 * Same as before.
 * Before what? Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 21:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Reason as before. Darthchristian   ( Hey! ) 21:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm in France, but if you want to source that (her being a composed and rational nanny), I believe you can do it from the Jedi Academy trilogy or possibly the Jedi Academy sourcebook.  - breathesgelatin Talk 08:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Addressed/clarified.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating Day. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 16:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed everything but the ones I noted. Darthchristian   ( Hey! ) 21:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments

'''Approved by Inquisitorius 15:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have worked on this extensively with the assistance of a few other users. It is sourced and contains every reference to Winter that I know of, although I have not finished Sacrifice to see if she is mentioned in there.  - breathesgelatin Talk 00:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good, Breathes. Nice job.  Greyman ( Paratus ) 04:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice article. I'd like to see a bit more inline citations in the Personality and traits section, but that's just a personal preference. &mdash;Mir  len  16:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * A question: If Leia and Winter are both adopted, why don't they both hold the title "Princess"? Is this due to Leia being believed to be a biological child? If possible, I think a note on this in the first paragraph would be useful. --Eyrezer 05:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This seems to be a rational explanation, but I've never seen any mention of it in EU, so I would not feel comfortable putting it in the article.  - breathesgelatin Talk 20:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a footnote which I hope will be acceptable. --Eyrezer 00:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Was it confirmed anywhere that she was actually *adopted* by the Organas? I was always under the impression she just grew up in the Organa household (much as Neena did), which would also be why sources call her things like "Leia's close friend and confidant," rather than "Leia's adoptive sister". jSarek 10:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Breathesgelatin will have to answer that q. --Eyrezer 00:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You know? Honestly that isn't 100% clear to me. The word "adoption" is sometimes used and sometimes not. For example I'm just reading Rebel Dawn and Winter doesn't mention adoption. If she is adopted, it could be in a loose, non-legal kind of sense. And who knows what Alderaanian traditions surrounding adoption are? It's clear, at least, that Leia was presented as the Organas' biological child and that Winter wasn't. But whether that equals Winter not being a princess or not I don't know. Again I think there's just not enough explicit sources to tell.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, it was Star Wars Chronicles: The Prequels which introduced the Winter adopted by the Organas tidbit. I don't have the book, so I don't know in what terms its stated. QuentinGeorge 04:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way everyone, I submitted three questions to Leland Chee at the official site boards regarding Winter's birthdate, adoption status, and her use of the name "Targeter": Click here for link. Hopefully he'll reply and we'll get some sort of definitive answer. Right now I think the footnote solution is the best we can come up with.  - breathesgelatin Talk 10:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing as we have footnoted both this point, I think we can move this to the queue. Leland doesn't seem to be in any rush to answer the question. --Eyrezer 00:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Can't be moved to the queue with remaining objections. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 21:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I finished everything out.  - breathesgelatin Talk 21:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)