Talk:Revan/Legends

More than one apprentice?
I just started a new game of KotOR about an hour ago, and I noticed in the opening crawl that Darth Malak is referred to as the "last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan." To me, it seems that Revan trained other Sith apprentices along with Malak, but Malak was Revan's chief apprentice. Grand Moff Tranner (Comlink) 14:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It cannot be. If you read the Darth Bane novels, you would see that Bane's concept for the "Rule of Two" was based on Revan's teachings: "Every Sith to take more than one apprentice is a fool". That's probably because this era was quite undeveloped at the time, so the concept probably changed... I believe it was written that way so it would seem there were a lot of Sith, which was true. Nanook 01:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that quote doesn't say that Revan only had one apprentice. It could be interpreted that he said that, having failed teaching numerous apprentices. Besides, the opening crawl's "last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan" could also explain that. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 12:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to offend anyone here, but you seem to be under the impression that the only time a Sith kills another is to become a Master, that is not the case. It's entirely possible that Alek wasn't Revan's original Sith apprentice, despite their relationship during the Mandalorian Wars, and that Malak eliminated all his competitors to become Darth Revans' apprentice.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 13:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, no, I'm not under that impression. Frankly, I think Malak was the main apprentice, and due to the lack of the Rule of Two, Revan likely trained lesser apprentices (perhaps the Sith Masters found through the game?) as well. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 16:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * All the sources after the first game came out indicate that Malak was his only apprentice, so no, I don't think he personally trained anyone other than Malak. Til a source come sout saying that he trained other apprentices, we should not add that to the article.--Jedi Kasra 21:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What, so the opening crawl means nothing? Am I missing something here? Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know, man. Like I said, let's not do anything until another source comes out, it's won't be long before the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide is released.--Jedi Kasra 22:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, why should we wait when the opening crawl specifically calls Malak Revan's last surviving apprentice? Something needs to be put in the article about that. I'd do it, but it's likely someone would jump down my throat because of it. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 22:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just put it in the BTS section, since nothing is confirmed yet. Like I said, every source calls Malak his only apprentice, and doesn't even give any hint that he had other Sith apprentices.--Jedi Kasra 23:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is entirely possible at the onset of the Mandalorian Wars that Revan had an actual Padawan who became a Sith after the war...but to have another Sith apprentice seems to go against Revan's holocron in PoD...but then again, Karpshyn most likely never knew he would be delving in the EU in an era other than Revan's. Rushin Sundaws 00:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible, but it can't go in th earticle until proven by a credible source.--Jedi Kasra 00:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, perhaps we could just say that he may have had another Sith apprentice or Padawan at sometime before the events of KoTOR. Rushin Sundaws 00:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah...--Jedi Kasra (talk) 01:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, Jedi Kasra, KotOR is a credible source. Why are you so against putting that fact into the article? The opening crawl specifically calls Malak Revan's last surviving apprentice. That needs to be in the article. While whether the other apprentices were Jedi or Sith is unknown, Revan did have at least one other apprentice. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 13:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Until we actually get to see another apprentice of Revan which is not Malak, we can't put that fact without mentioning it's just a speculation based on the opening crawl. The opening crawl is not a proof. Nanook 14:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Err, are you serous? Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually we can assume the opening crawl is indeed correct because of the wording of PoD and the opening crawl it does not say "Last surviving Sith apprentice" it says "Last surviving apprentice", therefore it is wrong to 'read in' the word "Sith" as Jedi were also reffered to as apprentices many times. This simply means that all his other apprentices that he ever had are dead, it does not mean that he trained more Sith it in no way says that. I believe that Grand Moff Tranner is 'reading in' more than there really is here.  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )[[Image:JaingHead.svg|20px]] 15:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but the fact remains that Revan had other apprentices, and the opening crawl is proof of that. This is not speculation; this is cold, hard fact. This needs to be mentioned in the article. I'm glad I brought up the issue here before putting it into the article. I didn't realize this would become such a controversy. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 15:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Put it in, then. But it has to be clarified that those apprentices were probably not Sith. I don't see it fitting per current status-quo for Revan to have another Sith apprentices. Nanook 15:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )[[Image:JaingHead.svg|20px]] 15:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added the information to a section of the article. It should probably also be mentioned in the introduction.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 16:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nanook, are you aware that it's very likely Revan had more than one Sith apprentice at a time? The Rule of Two wouldn't be in existence for two thousand years. Yes, Revan used a form of the Rule of Two at least at the end of his reign, but it's not impossible for him to have trained someone else alongside Malak at the beginning of his reign. Grand Moff Tranner [[Image:Imperial Department of Military Research.svg|20px]] (Comlink) 16:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmphh. I believe we'll just have to live and see, I guess that the answer will be revealed in the comics. I'd like to see another source confirming the theory. Nanook 19:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the same source as most of this article uses. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course. I meant something more of an example. I get the feeling that whatever intentions the author had in mind more than 5 years ago, it has already changed since. How is it no other source claimed similarly in that time? Of course, this is just a feeling. Nanook 13:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe he had other apprentices the same way Darth Tyrannus and Vader had Dark Jedi apprentices. Its also possible he added the info about never having more than 1 student in his holocron because some of the apprentices other than Malak tried to gang up on him and he learned from his mistakes. Steves490 19:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is possible that Revan might of trained a replacement for Malak when he reactivated to Sith Academies on Malachor V and Korriban. This would make sense seeing that Revan and Malak did not see eye to eye on tactics during the Jedi Civil War, the former wanting to strengthen the Republic by skipping heavily fortified worlds and the latter wishing to crush it with all his might. User:Unknown 19:00, 12 June 2008 EST
 * Again this is too much specualting we are getting away from the point. If he had other "Dark Jedi"/"Sith" apprentices or merely other "Jedi" who had been apprentices in the past it doesn't matter as they are all dead before KOTOR (which is the only evidence that he had any other than Malak), the fact that we have established that he did have others should be enough. We will have to wait for more sources to be released before we can acuratley plot anything.  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )[[Image:JaingHead.svg|20px]] 18:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Revelation?
How was Revan indirectly mentioned in the book?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Revan slicing off Malak's jaw
It should be mentioned that he did so, while they were dueling, somewhere in the article, perhaps in the "Jedi Civil War" section. See the "Darth Malak" section for the approrpiate sources.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm, ho do you know that?  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 19:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Insider 100 and/or the databank. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 21:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Hasbro cardback picture


I removed the package elements from a scan of Revan's Hasbro cardback. If it's not considered fanon, could it be used, and if so, for the infobox? It looks live-action. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 13:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I like it personally. It's not fanon as its from an official product. I think the main reaction here will be that its too dark though. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 14:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC) I looked on another site, and the back of the card has a better/brighter version. I can try scanning it. Drewton   ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Too dark and the quality isn't good enough for infobox. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 15:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I like it, alot. Good for the infobox, but a deff for the article whole.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 15:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say it's good for the infobox, but, if there's space, it might be okay for somewhere else. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 15:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comparing it with in-game shots is like comparing night and day, IMO. The only details that really need to be seen in an infobox are of the head, which you can see clearly and is bright enough. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

That would be a fantastic main image. Can it be done? - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 18:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I remembered that I have the Canadian packaging, which has the picture in just a small sheet. Even if I tried scanning it, my scanner's not that great. I'll see if I can get anyone else who has the regular packaging to do it. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 19:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just attempted a rescan...utter crap. Unless the artist has a website with hi-res versions, we're stuck with this one. Just don't even try to put into the infobox. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|25px]] (Talk) 03:42, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Stop trying to be King of Wookieepedia again Redemption.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's try and keep pointless, aggravating comments to the minimum, shall we? I think it's fairly obvious that the image isn't suitable for the infobox, but if you do want it there, please start a vote. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 12:04, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't planning to put it in the infobox unless it was agreed upon, and even if I was I wouldn't because of the banning warning. If I do a scan/camera picture of thr brighter one and it's still not right, it could be used for the Mandalorian Wars section. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's a brighter version taken by one of the administrators of YakFace.com. There's some cardboard lines in it, but it looks fine in the infobox.

Another option is to ask Hasbro for the original picture in their bi-weekly Q&A on one of the collecting forums. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 14:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)