Talk:Revan/Legends

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End scenes of Forces of Corruption (SPOILERS)
On the Petroglyph Fan Forums, someone posted several screens from the end scenes of the historical campaign in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption. Now this contains some spoilers, so read on on your own incentive:

Apparently, Silri (Tyber Zann's henchman) uses a Sith Holocron (stolen by Zann from Jabba before the game even begins) to summon a map, showing the location of what appears to be Revan's final resting place. She goes there and there's thousands of Sith troopers encased in carbonite, with what appears to be a statue of Revan in the middle of the hall. Anyone with the game able to elaborate what's going on? :P VT-16 16:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ooooh... --Imp 17:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed VT-16 18:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Can we be sure it's Revan? =) --Imp 18:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The players there appear to think so. At least the person has Sith troopers lined up like Terracotta soldiers.
 * EDIT: Appears someone on TFN has played the game and said there's nothing to indicate it's Revan. Apparently, the place is one of the Emperor's storehouses. VT-16 18:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Would this not indicate that, ultimately, Revan's life ended as a darksider? Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 19:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really. --Imp 19:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * (1) Those look nothing like Sith troopers and (2) that's a statue of someone wearing hooded robes with a sword, which means it could be absolutely anyone. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed that actually, it honestl could be anyone. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 14:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you look at the helmet it does look like the Sith Troopers. But it could be another Sith Lord who knows.Shifter 10:27, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, wasn't TESB when they first started testing carbonite on humans. Now, let's assume that it is Revan's tomb. One, does that mean even after sending the Star Forge sky high he rejoined the Sith, as Sith soldiers are standing there like in that one Chinese Emperor's tomb (I have no idea which one but it was one of the first one)? And second, (going back to the first sentence) if they were doing this in the 3950's-3940's, then why the heck would Darth Vader and the boys be experimenting with the EXACT SAME SUBSTANCE way in the future???? Now, I know, Star Wars history can be as inconsistent as the Carolina Panthers, but still... Oh and BTW, I hope Revan doesn't make a mortal appearance in the GCW era. HK-47 is one thing, being a well-maintained droid and all, but a human being some 4000 years later? Totally different story. Now, seeing a descendant of Revan of would be cool, however, but not a mortal Revan himself. (I was going to rant a little more but I'll shut up now...) DAWUSS 02:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The big thing in ESB was that Han survived the process and could be reawakened. If I remember correctly, Lord Keto was frozen in carbonite just before the Sith Wars, so that in itself is not new. Charlii 11:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If it was Revan, why would there be Sith troopers all around him? He was supposed to be a lightside man. Besides, those "Sith troopers" could very well just be stormtroopers. Darthan the destroyer 16:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Plus, it doesnt say its Revan. So, we should not put that in the arcticle.

Possible Soresu user?
I've been looking into Revan's lightsaber style and I have a good speculation. It seems like he is utilizing Soresu when he is confronted on his flagship. Here's a comparison between him and Obi-Wan, a utilizer of Soresu which proves my point.Darth Shadow3000 00:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)




 * It doesn't prove your point. For one, Revan's lightsaber is at head level, meaning that his legs could easily be taken out for beneath him. Obi-Wan's on the otherhand is in the centre of his body, meaning he has a higher defence-arc. It is possible that Revan knew some aspects of Soresu, but i doubt he trained in it especially. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 16:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I dont know about lightsaber forms, but that posture reminds me of palpatine. Could it be juyo? - 201.222.237.38 16:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you have a fascinating point with the resemblance between revan and Palpatine However in a vision given to the exile he is using two blades as well as in many concepts, also in the first picture below he is holding two lightsabers so Have to say the Nima/Jar'Kia stance is quite promising--Revanreborne 21:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * There are extreme Similaritys Between Revens' Style and Juyo. The Reven Picture reminds me of the stance Luke has Just before he almost kills Vader on the Second Death star By Hk-47


 * Stop, this please. There is absolutely no canonical information whatsoever regarding what forms KOTOR characters used, save for the three TSL Masters. - Sikon 17:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * So who cares its kinda fun to sit here and think about what stance revan used or any other characters its just entertaining--Revanreborne 20:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I care, and so would most other users. This wikia is not a general forum, it is for conversation about the article in question, not the subject of the article. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And I'm with Jasca on that. Speculation, specially if based on some canonic source, has place here, but not specualation for speculation's sake -- Skippy Farlstendoiro 08:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

He probably was taught all of the lightsaber moves. Look, just dont put in the article that he is a Soresu user. You dont have any proof. Darthan the destroyer 16:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Revan is using Juyo. Need proof? Refer to the Episode Three Video Game where Mace Windu utilizes his stance at the beggining of a multiplayer duel. His stance and Revan's are identical. And no offense to the originator of this article, but you can plainly see the physical difference between Obi-Wan's Soresu Stance and Revan's Juyo Stance.'''

Erm, to the user who didn't bother to sign their comment. That's wrong. It doesn't matter what stance either used, even if Revan's stance was identical to Juyo, unless it is printed that he used Juyo, it remains speculation. Sith Council Sith Campaign 18:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC) even if Revan's stance was identical to Juyo, unless it is printed that he used Juyo, it remains speculation.

To that user I have this to say, If it looks like Sh*t and smells like Sh*t, ...Guess what it is??? No, but your close. I could see the gears in your head spinning until smoke came out. :) It means, If it looks like Juyo, and not Soresu, then what is it...?
 * User fanon pretending it's canon? - Lord Hydronium 00:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Duh, Juyo.

This is your lesson in the obvious for today. :)

Wow, your wisdom is amazing. Darthan the destroyer 14:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Mechanic Section
''It should be noted, however, that despite these claims by the HK-47 unit encountered in KotOR, there was already a model of Hunter-Killers created in the galaxy, as supported by two Sith officers discussing finding HK-47 once the party is captured by the Leviathan. This heavily suggests that while Revan may have designed HK-47's mind-set and possible additions to the basic model, that he was not the creator of the Hunter-Killer series themselves.''

Why should it be noted? The first paragraph doesn't claim that Revan invented the HK series of models, nor does it infer it. It simply states that he built HK-47, which is - as far as we know - true. (Ulicus 17:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC))
 * Oh, sorry, I just remembered why it might be noted, as HK-47 claimed to be "unique" - until the HK-50s and 51s came along. I'll just rejig it a bit to mesh a bit better. (Ulicus 17:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC))
 * Ok, it's not excellent, but it has been Wookified now. The reference to "KotOR" has been removed, as this isn't a behind the scenes section. Since we don't know whether or not the Sith officer discussion is canon either (you don't have to choose to have HK-47 rescue you), the reference to it has been removed as well. I've made note of HK-24 as proof of a HK-47 precursor instead... even so, I recall GO-TO referring to HK-47 as "the original", or something... so I might make a note of that when I find the relevant dialog. Of course, he ISN'T the original, but it seems notable that other characters think he is. (Ulicus 17:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC))
 * Nope, can't find it... I guess I imagined it. It seems to me that the HK-50s were based off HK-47s model specifically though, so they may have made use of whatever modifications/extras that Revan put into his own take on the HK-series... who knows? That's me done.(Ulicus 17:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC))
 * Maybe Revan found HK? No one will know for certain. All that we know is that HK thinks of Revan as his creator. Darthan the destroyer 01:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Revan vs Darth Revan, round infinity
I was thinking about this, and I'm starting to think this page might work better as "Darth Revan" (contrary to one of my previous posts). Yes it's true that Revan abandoned the Darth title when he went back to the light side, but he also abandoned the name Revan altogether. You have multiple instances of the light-side player going "I'm not Revan anymore, I'm not Revan anymore". Therefore, the guy's name isn't Revan, but whatever character name you gave him. As the character names are variable and non-canon, we're forced to fall back to to his previous name, Darth Revan. Furthermore, having it as Darth Revan somewhat drives home the point that he was best known as the Sith Lord, rather than the Jedi, especially as that wass the most distinguishing aspect of his life. - Lalala la 03:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. He is last addressed as Revan (and he doesn't stop him either) as "Revan, the prodigal knight." by Vandar. By that point, it can be assumed that Revan accepted that he is Revan - a redeemed Revan. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 04:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeedy. The fact the NEC, Vandar, everyone who knew him in KOTOR II, and his own actions in going to the Outer Rim kind of show he was referred to as Revan and accepted it, which seems a lot more Jedi-like (accepting one's mistakes) than trying to brush it off and deny they are the same person. Lord Patrick 05:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Redemption and Patrick. It's also important to note that a lot of (if not all) Revan's memories eventually returned, which could lead to his acceptance of the name once again. He only denied being Revan at all when "Revan" was just another word for "Evil Revan", and when he didn't remember his previous existance.(Ulicus 20:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC))
 * Revan was the name he was last known by, so it stays at Revan. [[Image:DarthAbeonisSig2.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Its not gonna work on wikipedia, and it wont work here. Revan is not the same as Darth Revan. Remember that. Revan is his name, and he will be forever known as Revan. Darthan the destroyer 16:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Pruning
I am pruning several sections of the article. Lets not revert until we see what the inquisition thinks first aye? (Ulicus 10:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Stuff that I've been over


 * Introduction
 * Early Life
 * Jedi training
 * Mandalorian Wars
 * Discovery of the Star Forge
 * Behind the Scenes (still plenty of room for improvement)

I'll probably do some work on the Jedi Civil War, KotOR and Into the Unknown sections later today.(Ulicus 05:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Ok, I ended up adding a new section: "The Star Forge", which is basically the beginning of the old Jedi Civil War stuff expanded. I also added a couple of new pictures, though their sizing/placement probably isn't perfect. I'm working in a pretty high resolution, so if they're messing anything up in the lower resis, let me know. (Ulicus 14:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

Introduction
I rewrote the intro... how's it look?  Sarendipity  ( Talk to me ) 06:42, 6 March 2007 (UTC) Right, here's the 'blend' - it's pretty much the bastard offspring of both intros and I've tried to do them justice:
 * Hmmm. Honestly? It's not bad but Sentry's intro wasn't bad to begin with, seemed to possess more of an encyclopaedic tone and had been revised several times already. I don't think it needed rewriting really, though there were a couple of super long sentences in there. That said, let's leave it for now and see what others make of it.(Ulicus 08:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Ok, so no-one's made any comments at all :S. Well, my stance is that it should be reverted. The previous introduction wasn't perfect (especially since, having checked over it, it isn't actually as I remember and there's a lot of stuff that interrupts the flow) but I think it was better than the new one. There are things wrong with the article, but nothing in the main stuff (that is, the non-BTS stuff) needs to be completely rewritten. Touched up, sure. Flowery language toned down in some cases? I guess. But a complete rewrite seems unneccessary. Sorry.(Ulicus 17:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC))
 * I know it wasn't specifically called for by the Inquisitorius, but I saw a few things wrong with it and set about fixing it. The intention wasn't originally to completely rewrite it, but once I began fixing things it looked less and less like the original. There are still some elements of other people's work in there. It's the nature of a wiki; nothing on a page is ever truly "done," as it can always be improved on. That's true of my rewrite as well, as I've seen a few minor corrections to it so far. I posted on this talk page in the hope of getting feedback to make it better. It's the most important part of the article in that it should be able to accurately describe Revan to someone who doesn't know who he was at all. I didn't feel that the previous version accurately portrayed the ambiguities in his story, and I also wanted to separate the unique phases of his life a little more. Obviously I'd like to see the new one stick, but if you do go back to the other one, don't just revert and leave it as it was, please.  Sarendipity  ( Talk to me ) 19:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Though I think the previous intro was fine in summing up what Revan did, which is all it's there to do, I wouldn't intend on doing a straight revert. I think I might experiment in blending the two together - then post on the discussion page for criticism - as you're right on the ambigious front, it's just that the previous one seemed more succint (I'm not certain if it *actually* was or not, but that's the impression I get). I disagree, however, in your analysis that nothing on a page can ever be truly "done". There simply must reach a point where something can't be improved anymore. I'm not saying that the previous intro was "done", or couldn't be improved at all (far from it), just arguing a general point :P (Ulicus 04:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

Rip apart at your leisure :) (Ulicus 04:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Very nice, good work :)  Sarendipity  ( Talk to me ) 04:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, in that case it's in... uh, until any hugely glaring errors are pointed out. (Ulicus 05:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC))
 * I removed "male Human" from the introduction as it looked silly and is already covered in the infobox. --Imp 22:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree (Ulicus 05:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Though it seems someone has put it back...(Ulicus 05:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * If you don't mind, I'm removing the last sentence; it sounds too much like the thesis of an essay rather than an encyclopedia entry. - Lord Hydronium 05:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's cool. (Ulicus 07:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

Now Don't Anyone Lash Out At Me For Not Knowing This
But where exactly is it stated that Revan was Darth Revan's real name? Xepeyon 20:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it is not explicitly stated that it is his real name, but, because it's the only canonical name given, it's used. 20:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Where exactly does it say in the article that Revan was his real name? :P It says that Revan and Malak "used the names they were already known by rather than new Sith monkiers". "Revan" could have been an alias he adopted at a very young age for all we know - but it was the name he was known by throughout the Mandalorian Wars for certain. It's also what all the masters called him. (Ulicus 20:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC))
 * oh, sorry. But I could have sworn that the article, at least at one time, said that Revan was his real name...Xepeyon 20:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm, why would he have taken an alias when he was being trained as a Jedi? Wouldn't he just use his real name? [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Revan is his real name. He was referred to as such before he took the Darth title. - Sikon 21:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Revan was his real name. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 21:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, because Jedi have never taken alias. Never. *cough*Dark Woman*cough*. Revan probably was his real name. All we can state with certainty was that it was the name he was *known* by. :P (Ulicus 05:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Wow, you should take something for that cough. wouldn't Revan be his name? It says so everywhere. But, I cant Lash out at Xepeyon Darthan the destroyer 03:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Dark Women was an alias taken to defend herself against the Empire. Revan didn't have that problem. Revan was his birth name. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 11:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

New Image
I posted an image for consideration as the main image similar to this once before, only back then my PC was turd. This time the graphical settings are all at maximum (though I must admit that it doesn't translate as well into a screenshot as I had hoped, it's certainly no worse than the current main image in quality). It's a head and shoulders shot and I think it's a better picture than the one currently up, which is - for lack of a better word - boring. It's also a shot of a vision and implies that the real Revan used two lightsabers, when we don't know this for a fact. Revan's a great character, and he deserves a decent first impression :P. Well, discuss at your convinience.(Ulicus 05:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)). Wow, you're right about the quality Redemption. I can't believe I didn't notice the huge difference between the two (embarrassed). Anyhow, an image cropped something like this is what I would suggest: I might stick the "RevanDLotS" image in the Legacy of a Dark Lord bit though. Still... if someone's willing to take the same screenshot I already posted with a higher resolution... I maintain that the "arms crossed pose" is the best.(Ulicus 07:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)) Oh and I really like this cropped version (the third one). Head, shoulders, no knees and toes. *thumbs up* (Ulicus 08:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Not as good quality. Kinda smudged and not quite as sharp...shaders aren't that great either. Red tints are never a good thing. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 05:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The tint is what kind of throws me off. We can always crop the current one if you really don't like the two lightsabers thing-a-ma-bob. Cull Tremayne 05:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Or even simply make quick and simple alterations to the game so that he isn't wielding twin lightsabers. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 05:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If we do crop the current one, I suggest getting just an upper torso and head/shoulders shot. As for the tint, well... yeah, he's standing on top of the rakatan temple in the full glare of the sun (Ulicus 07:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

Expansion Template
Does anyone know why the expansion template is there in the "Forbidden relationships" section? The Bastila part does look a bit short, but I always play as female so I don't know if anything is missing. Also, I think perhaps the Bastila romance should be moved up above Behind the scenes to the canon section, and the other two non-canon romances should be moved into Behind the scenes (scratching the "Forbidden relationships" heading altogether).  Sarendipity  ( Talk to me ) 06:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't really see the need for a section of Bastila's romance at all really. I think it could quite easily be incorporated into Revan's main biography.(Ulicus 07:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * How about we keep the Romance he had in the Romance Section? Darthan the destroyer 17:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Mind-wiped or amnesiac
Just for the record. Revan was not amnesiac, he had had his memory wiped. Any edit to the contary will be reverted. Sith Council Sith Campaign 08:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC) Lord Patrick 09:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC) What are you talking about? Bastila clearly and unambigiously states his mind was d-e-s-t-r-o-y-e-d after the revelation scene in context of her preserving his life after he got betrayed by Malak. You could potentially pull up Mission quotes, but let's face it, who's more reliable, a woman who has had personal intimate witness to these events and a force bond with the man she's discussing or a 14 year old Twi'lek street urchin who was barely leaving childhood when Revan was attacked by Malak. As for the amnesia thing, even if he wasn't amnesiac, this is not a two option situation. Just because X isn't true doesn't mean Y is true. Z could be, or A, or B, C, or J for that matter. Lord Patrick 09:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC) See my point above. Just because X might not be true DOES NOT mean that Y is. It's completely possible, by the way to live in a mentally destroyed state (See:Persistant Vegetative State). Fragments of digital memory can hang around a computer system even if it becomes busted and is replaced with a new one. In Revan's case, they programmed memories onto what was effectively a virtually blank state, and the memories resurfaced. I know he eventually recovered his memories, but truly that's more a case of the fragments(old memories) resurrecting the true Revan from his fragmented subconscious rather than his memories breaking out under a Council placed wall of neurological tar. Lord Patrick 09:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Malak's aim in attacking Revan was to kill him, not wipe his mind. He lost his memory as a side effect of Malak's attacks. Bastila says that his mind was destroyed and she used the Force to preserve the flicker of life in his body and the Council gave him a new identity almost immediately after the revelation scene, much like putting in a new CD in a player with some fragments in it. My source is KOTOR I. Yours?
 * The Jedi wiped Revan's mind, not Malak. The Jedi could have easily rebuilt Revan's mind, they gave him a new identity remember. KotOR I clearly states that his mind was wiped, not that he was amnesiac. So your "source" supports me. And, once again, I must point out, being amnesiac is different to being mind-wiped (like Revan was) and having one's mind destroyed. In order for someone to be amnesiac, their mind must be intact. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not disputing that Revan's mind was destroyed. But Bastila clearly, and unambigiously states that enough of his his mind survived, for him to survive. The difinition of amnesic is Partial or total loss of memory, usually resulting from shock, psychological disturbance, brain injury, or illness.] We have no source that he lost his memory during the attack, just that all connection to the memories were lost. The Jedi council totally wiped his memory of his life and implanted a new set, thus, he had been mind wiped. He was not amnesiac, he was mind-wiped. I'm sure if he had been amnesiac, someone would have mentioned it. Bastila would have said, "oh, you were amnesiac and couldn't remember a single thing, but we thought we'd wipe your mind of the memories you have no chance of remembering and give you new one, just because we like to be difficult." [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 09:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Patrick is correct. Revan's mind was destroyed by Malak's attack.


 * Information in-game is somewhat contradictory. Personally I don't believe that all the game designers were entirely certain on what happened. That said, we have to go with the most reliable sources in-game.


 * Malak states that the Jedi Council wiped Revan's mind as does Carth (having heard it from Malak) - but it is Bastila who is the most reliable of the three, and it is she who, one presumes, gives us the closest thing to the truth. She states that Revan's mind was destroyed and that the Jedi Council inserted their puppet identity at that point. Not that they retrieved a badly damaged Revan - who was still Revan - erased what was left of his mind, then built him a new one.(Ulicus 10:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * As an aside, The Chronicles of the Old Republic directly refer to Revan as an amnesiac. There are mistakes contained within them, that's true, but whenever they don't contradict game information then they're taken to be canon (Ulicus 10:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC))

Lets, shall we? Darthan the destroyer 14:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The jedi council did not mind wipe revan, they healed what was left of his already broken mind and implanted new memories into it, the memory loss happend when he struck his head against the bridge of the flagship when malak attaked.-User:KickAssJedi
 * Revan is definatly amnesiac. If he had his mind wiped, he wouldn't be able to remember that he was once a dark lord of the Sith. He wouldn't have the dreams of his fight with the Jedi on the Star Forge. The Jedi gave him knew memories, and told Bastilla to watch him. Thats it. Darthan the destroyer 17:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, apparently the NEC refers to the Council "scouring" Revan's mind and refers to him regaining memories the Council had "erased". Should we put this down to shoddy research/inaccurate fanboy Banthaosik being Goebelled into the NEC as it contradicts the most reliable in game info, or take the "mindwipe meme" as a given? Lord Patrick 00:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Main pic
Secondly(after reading comments section) I didnt realise the dl image was from the non canon ending i thought it was the flash back were he takes his mask off(i take it all back)i still think the coffe stained one in the info box is awful though maybe a new one altogether is needed.-User:KickAssJedi
 * Can we pleasssssse change the main image the current one is horrible, the most obvious point is that its not even revan its just an apparition the purple couloration is crap, he is holding two lightsaber which as far as im aware is non-canon the dark lord one on the rakata temple is much more imposing.-User:KickAssJedi
 * I'm all for making RevanDloTS the main image, ESPECIALLY now User:Redemption has uploaded a much, much, much prettier version of it (at least I think he has). It's what I've been pushing for on and off for months though, so I'm very biased...(Ulicus 17:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Someone please change the image to either the darklord one or get a new one,the current one is just dire it is NOT revan it is an apparition conjured by the dark side energy of the tomb.-User:KickAssJedi
 * Whether you noticed it or not, I've fixed the problems you had with the image. No more purple tint or second lightsaber. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 18:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I know im being picky but thats even worse it looks like someones spilt a cupa tea on the image, the dark lord one is perfect its imposing,dramatic, its on lehon which revan probably considered the most important place in the galaxy its perfect.-User:KickAssJedi
 * It's not. It's red and ugly. And stop logging in and out when changing the image. We know it's you. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 19:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What is the attraction to that damn image its hidoeus, and its not me its my brother(he hasnt got an account)-User:KickAssJedi
 * First off, there is no attachment. Just a matter of good judgement. And secondly, never play the "it was my brother!" card. It never works. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 19:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Firstly im not interestead in if you beleve me, i thought it was nesecery to explain what happend because i didnt want people thinking i was a vandal.
 * Well these are the only canon images your going to get so deal with it or (famous trademark!) get the hell out if you don't like it. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Those cant be the only canon image's available the second one is non canon so fair play(looks like it wont win anyway)But im sure we can do better than the apparition one(also there's no need to be rude)-User:KickAssJedi
 * Well, they are the only ones. The only other times Revan appears are in the movie but those aren't the greatest quality. I'm just giving it to you straight. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

maybe an ingame screen cap of him in jedi robes with a blue lightsaber ignited but with his face obscured by something(like the Jedi exile) that at least wont contradict canon.-User:KickAssJedi I think the main image needs cropping. Head/shoulders/torso preferably. The lightsaber shouldn't be edited out really, since the "vision" was carrying two lightsabers - that said, I don't think the main image should imply that Revan favours any particular form or fighting style... cropping would be preferable. (Ulicus 09:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Fair enough i guess but youve got to admit that picture is below average quality,
 * No. It's just easier (and more recognizable) to do him in his sith robes. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 21:32, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok I just hate that image with avengence it really does look like someones spilt take away coffe on it, anyways never mind but i am going to strive to find a better picture even if it kills me.-User:KickAssJedi

Infobox Image - Vote
Just to end this edit war nonsense...

Revan in Ludo's Tomb

 * 1)  Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 19:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) They look essentially the same to me, so even if #1 is a dark side apparition, it's an accurate enough apparition for our purposes. Gonk 19:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e5/ATATatarismall.png 19:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 20:11, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) This one is better and "more canon." By the way, is that really Ludo Kreesh's tomb? I thought it was the Ancient Rakatan Temple. - TopAce 21:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Probably not needed but.... Chack Jadson 21:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) Lord Hydronium 21:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) More canon than dark side ending. KEJ 21:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Better image, canon image, and without any glare. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 12:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Revan Dark Sided Ending

 * 1) I'll be the lone voice crying out, ;) (Ulicus 09:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC))
 * 2) I'll join you I know the second one is the dark side ending but I really cant stand that pic.-User:KickAssJedi

Comments
I hope not, otherwise I missed that memo. Darthan the destroyer 03:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If the second image is from the dark side ending then it's not really canon, is it? --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 19:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * He still looks the same as he does in the canon ending, in terms of armour. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 20:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we need a diffrent image altogether maybe a close up of him on the bridge of his flagship.-User:kickAssJedi
 * We know that, regardless of the ending, Revan was at that temple in that get-up at one point (see the Revelation scene). Moving on, I don't care if the Ludo Tomb image remains the main one, but it HAS to be cropped. Head and shoulder shot ideally. (Ulicus 09:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC))
 * I never imagined I'd cause so much ruckus when I uploaded the original version of that image XD I can't believe people are still debating this. (Fade) 77.99.28.91 02:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Er, why exactly should it be cropped? Have headshots become the precedent when wasn't looking? Lord Patrick 21:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we pretty much decided to go professional. Sorry. .  .  .  .  11:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Eye colour(dark side)
White should be in the infobox as well as yellow, as on one of the faces when you fall completely to the dark side his eyes go completely white all over.-User:KickAssJedi
 * Revan's re-falling to the darkside isn't canon. Therefore, any information from his dark side appearance is not canon, and can't be added. 13:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm with Jorrel in that. But, if anything in the "alternative endings" is important enough, could it be added in a Behind the Scenes section? I'm just asking. - Skippy Farlstendoiro 13:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not. Trivial as it may seem, it is info. 13:56, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I know the dark side ending is non canon what im talking about is when he WAS ont the dark side(after the mandalorian wars) we dont know which of the possible faces is canon therfore we dont know wether his eye colour(dark Side) was white or yellow both are possible so both should be added.-User:KickAssJedi
 * I vote we leave out eye color altogether, rather than list every possible one.  Sarendipity  Talk [[Image:Atrissig.jpg|20px]] 17:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There are only two possible dark side ones white or yellow they both should be in the info box.-User:KickAssJedi
 * Regardless of what face the player picks (or even gender or alignment, although we don't have to be neutral there) Revan always has yellow eyes in the Revelation cutscene, as Darth Revan. Lord Patrick 21:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, then yellow is fine. White is non-canon, however.  Sarendipity  Talk [[Image:Atrissig.jpg|20px]] 21:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ive just replayed it, if you play as the guy with the short brown hair gotee and scar near his eye, then his dark side eye colour is white even in the revalation cutscene white should be in the info box as well.-User:KickAssJedi
 * All dark side faces have yellow eyes. Some are a paler shade of yellow but they are all yellow. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Im looking at him right now im in tulak hords tomb talking to jorak uln and his eyes and my characters eyes are identical there definately white.
 * It's the module ambient colors playing tricks. You have to look at the textures without any module interference. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Is that PC speak im an xboxer.-User:KickAssJedi
 * PC. PC, I believe, outweighs Xbox since it was released later. Though in this case it shouldn't make a difference since the textures are exactly the same. Though your television screen may also be contributing to the eye whiteness. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 00:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Lightsaber
I'm sure this has been discussed before but...surely the two saber vs. one saber thing is fairly obvious. Revan had a purple lightsaber before/after being a sith lord. As a sith lord, he had a red lightsaber. end of story. the vision allows for Revan to be Lightside or Darkside without changing lightsabers.


 * there is no basis in canon for that, all we know for sure is that he had a red lightsaber during his time as a sith lord his saber colour before and after that is unkwon(and sighn your posts in the future).-User:KickAssJedi

Why is this here? Darthan the destroyer 02:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Revan Fanboys
Just asking but, is it time they get their own page? I think there's a large enough crowd of them to at least consider it. DAWUSS 23:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Revan fanboys, idiotic and stupid though they are, are not nearly as acknowledged, well defined, or legion as Saxtonites, Fandalorians, or Fleet Junkies. They are probably about on the level of cosplayers in number. Lord Patrick 09:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Lord Patrick 11:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Would have been fun to do though ;) DAWUSS 00:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Believe me, if I could write just one article on Wookieepedia, it would be that. But it's not Wookieeish. But if I did it would probably go like this
 * Characteristics of dumbass Revan fanwankers;
 * Believing that Revan is *the* most powerful Sith Lord of all time, despite canonical evidence to the contrary and inflating a single statement from Kreia about KOTOR era Jedi compared to TOTJ era Jedi, along with Lucas statements about older versus newer Jedi, extrapolating this, and applying it to the Sith, despite indisputable G-canon evidence that the Dark Side was stronger during the prequels, and thus, logically, the Sith would be.
 * Using asinine arguments like "Even Sith apprentices in Revan's day knew force lightning and used it on a wider scale than Palpatine." to "prove" that Revan would curbstomp anybody from the movie era, despite the fact that under this "logic", I can use the Clone Wars cartoons to prove that Yoda, Mace, or Grievous could wipe their asses with everybody from KOTOR.
 * Believing that Revan never really fell, which as Sikon has pointed out, also requires one to trust Kreia as saying Exile>Revan, and/or believing that Revan's fall/turn was the fault of the evil meanie Council/True Sith/Senate/Republic/Malak and that he was perfectly moral in manipulating his own soldiers, devising techniques to torture innocent people, implementing these techniques, turning people into mindless zombies, likely killing quadrillions, and murdering political officials.
 * Believing that Revan was "mindwiped" by the Jedi Council, despite clear and indisputable canonical evidence otherwise by the woman who was bloody well present when he was betrayed by Malak stating that Revan's mind was destroyed, and that the Council healed his mind. Also, believing that the Council's reprogramming or alleged mindwiping was evil and immoral, yet murdering quadrillions of innocent people isn't.
 * Believing Malak was the true evil one, when the game itself shows him as the more innocent one who was corrupted after Revan, and when Revan himself apologizes for leading him down the path of darkness. Also believing that Malak was simultaneously an idiot based on a couple of big dialogue blunders and also a manipulator of Revan.
 * Considering it an indisputable fact that Revan was in his early twenties by KOTOR, despite the fact that this would make him, at the oldest, barely a year past adolescence by the time of the Mandalorian Wars.
 * Saying that Revan *MUST* have married and had kids with Bastila, rules of the Order, commitment to the Order, consequences, historical logic, and the possibility of the KOTOR relationship being one-way or temporary be damned!

Well, that sums them more perfectly than I ever hoped to, although I would add a couple of points myself. - Sikon 14:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Insisting that Kreia was of higher opinion of Revan than of the Exile, despite Kreia herself calling the Exile her greatest student during the final showdown on Malachor, and despite Chris Avellone saying that part of the game design was to have the Exile as the only person Kreia actually cared about while viewing everyone else as expendable.
 * Insisting that Revan's gender is unknown, or that Revan is canonically female. (For that matter, saying that the Exile's gender is unknown, or that the Exile is canonically male.) Also applies to virtually all Revan and Exile fangirls on kotorfanmedia.com and, by extension, #kotorfm.
 * Creating "versus" threads on forums, like "Revan vs Vader" or "Revan vs Palpatine".
 * Misspelling Revan's name as Reven, or making even more inane misspellings.


 * I don't see anything wrong with #3, but #2 irritates me to no end. And though Kotorfanmedia is okay, the gender whiners are basically a huge bunch of crybabies falling back on movie purism, accusations of fascism or sexism, and weird conspiracy theories. What I also hate is people assuming that because Revan is male, he is white skinned. What the hell kind of logic is that? I could also say "LOLZ MALIK MUST BE GAY COZ HE GETZ KILLED LOLZ!". Revan could just as easily be black skinned, brown skinned, tan skinned, or multitoned. He has *no* canonical depictions, and as such any of the selectable male faces could of been his. Just because highly ambigious advertising depicts him as such doesn't mean he is white skinned. After all, promotional art showed the Exile as male, but she isn't canonically. And I also get annoyed with people who bash the Council/GO-TO/Selkath. Just because they are cautious and a bit harsh (and for bloody good reasons) doesn't mean they are evil.

A major trait of Revan fanboys seems to be membership at Obsidian Forums (ironically, where there are more Revan fanboys than Bioware Forums, probably because Obsidian decided to deify Revan with levels of wankitude that would make Dragon Ball Z writers blush, whereas Bioware presented him as a flawed, interesting person.). Even the VIPS there, like Dark Raven, are fanboys. About the only sane people are yourself, Nur Ab Sal, Jediphile, and The Architect. Well, and there probably are sane anons laughing their asses off. Lord Patrick 18:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe someone should delete this. We are kind of violating the huge ass message at the top of the page. Lord Patrick 03:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Revan Strengthening the Republic
Hello, I'm sorry if this has been suggested before, I'm new here.

Could someone please add a bit onto the Revan page about Kreia's (and possibly other people's) theory about Revan not wanting to destroy the Republic but to unite it (there is something about this on www.wikipedia.org - if you search for revan and read the part titled "Revan's Legacy"). I think it is a valid point about Revan's actions.

Sorry, but thats a theory. Most people believed, i think, that Revan was gonna rule the universe with the site empire. Kreia was stubborn. Revan was her best student, and she probably didn't wanna think that he was real evil. Darthan the destroyer 22:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Appearences in KotoR comics
I was reading the 15th issue of the Knights of the old Republic. There was that scene, where the mandalorians nuked the surface of Serroco, All over the Galaxy jedi felt the destruction, like at the Order 66, or the destruction of Alderaan. There was a caped figure at forest enviroment, with a young man in red armor who looked like Malak. This guy told his master that he felt the destruction of the planet, while his master was having a great pain, but we couldn't see the masters face. Could it be, that this caped man was Revan? Alpha 1286 19:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Likely, but it's just speculation at this point. [[Image:DarthAb.gif|Jasca Ducato]] Sith Council Sith Campaign 19:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * We have an article on that person: Unknown hooded Jedi. - Sikon 03:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Can we get rid of the "possible Revan" yet?
The guy from the TV commercial is wearing Dooku's cape over normal Jedi robes. Unless you want to claim that Revan hailed from Serenno and that they never changed their fashion statements for four millenia, that is seriously not him Lalala la 08:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No. We can't say those are Dooku robes. It's a brown piece of cloth with a chain attached. That doesn't make it "Serenno robes". -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 18:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Brown robe with chain attached is exactly what Dooku wore. But more to the point, it's pretty obvious it was intended to be a publicity thing with Jedi/Sith apparel borrowed from the most recent Star Wars movie at the time, namely AOTC Lalala la 06:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * How is it obvious. It was on an advertisement for KotOR. Jasca Ducato 11:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Advertisements cater to real world people. You're making a trailer emphasizing the light/dark duality. You have a character wearing Jedi and Sith robes to emphasize that duality. You grab the closest Jedi and Sith robes you can find, from the Episode II set Lalala la 23:02, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's canon for ya. Jasca Ducato 08:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well advertisements aren't exactly canon to begin with IIRC. But even if they were, there's nothing to say that this one example seeks to depict the main character. The portrayal of good versus evil is symbolic of the choice every Jedi must make, not just Revan. That, along with the Dooku/Obi-Wan robes leads me to conclude that he's a made-up character that somewhat represents each and every Jedi, not any one particular individual Lalala la 21:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * And that is all valid reason to keep it as a "possible apparance" in the BTS section. Charlii 22:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)