Talk:Canon

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The Talkheader template at the top of this page says it all, and this debate ends here. If you want to talk amongst yourselves, use your individual talk pages for discussion. Please do not perpetuate this discussion further. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Confusion
I would just like to point out that there is a slight contradiction within this page. As I am an avid Star Wars fan, I would like to know the canon of certain events and subjects, however, I have noticed that the term "deleted scenes" are found in the G-Canon and N/Non-Canon sections, which is rather confusing. If a kind soul could straighten this out, I would greatly appreciate it as I doubt I am qualified to edit such an unstable and hotly debated page.

Move the Infinities Logo?
I find it slightly confusing to have the Infinties logo on the top of a page about canon. Maybe we should move it. 69.88.211.46 15:14, January 19, 2011 (UTC)

Who fogged up the window?
This article contains a quote from Chris Cerasi using the analogy of a "foggy window" into the Star Wars universe. A couple paragraphs later, the article text contains the phrase "Sansweet's 'foggy window'". Sansweet's name is mentioned nowhere else in the article (in fact, his first name is never mentioned) so it is unclear (dare I say "foggy"?) what his connection is to the "foggy window" analogy. Did he in fact invent it, and Cerasi was just referring to Sansweet's concept in his quote? Or is this an attribution error, in one case or the other? (Interestingly, a source is given for almost every quote in this article except the Cerasi one -- which is the longest quote in this article.) Asithol 10:24, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Absent any clarification, I've tagged the Cerasi quote as unsourced and removed Sansweet's name. Asithol 00:24, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * The source is "Ask the Lucasfilm Jedi Council" from August 17, 2001, archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20011006064339/http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20010817.html --91.56.217.171 19:24, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

George Lucas
George Lucas said the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married so should we deem the Emperor's clone and Mara Jade as Non-Canon?KitFisto19BBY 21:19, March 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * George Lucas has said a lot of things, and not always the same things. I think Leland Chee says it best: "The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving." Wookieepedia adheres to the inclusive continuity indicated in the second view, where the clone of the Emperor and Mara Jade Skywalker are both quite canon. jSarek 20:55, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * So Darth Maul surviving is non-canon?;)KitFisto19BBY 21:00, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Did it happen in "the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron"? Since the Clone Wars cartoon is in the Holocron, then yes, it's canon. jSarek 08:51, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Darth Maul's survival is canon as introduced by Dark Horse comics. George Lucas has chosen to acknowledge that insertion of EU lore into his own TCW continuity. This is much the same as when he accepted into film canon the name of the Galactic Republic capital planet as Coruscant, a name invented by Timothy Zahn for the EU Thrawn trilogy.  Gethralkin  Hyperwave 05:48, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only Dark Horse comic in which the original Darth Maul (not the clone/doppelganger/whatever of "Resurrection") appeared was Star Wars: Visionaries, in a story acknowledged as non-canon by Lucasfilm. It wasn't until the Savage Opress storyline that we were given any hint that Maul was indeed alive, and there is no evidence Lucas based that decision on the non-canon Visonaries story. (There is also no evidence that the Visonairies story is now canon; Maul's final fate may yet be met in the TV series.) jSarek 06:45, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I forgot that Resurrection was Infinities, I guess because the return of Maul has been promoted so much for TCW. Thanks for the clarification, JSarek. In any case, Kit, the answer to your question is that there are degrees of canonicity, and that is what the Canon article discusses if you will but read it carefully. The films are G-canon. The cloned Emperor and Mara Jade story arcs are C-canon, and Darth Maul surviving is T-canon now that it is presented in TCW&mdash;although, as JSsarek so kindly pointed out, the details may not be the same and the post-EI comics about Maul will likely continue to be N-canon. You can be a film purist if you like, but trying to mold this wiki to that philosophy by changing articles and arguing over canonicity will only get you banned.  Gethralkin  Hyperwave 15:21, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if he says a lot of things the point still stands that his statements are still considered canon and he does have the final say. You have to look at what his most recent decisions is because as we all know he changes his mind alot. I mean just look at all the special editions. Leeland Chee explained this on the old Starwars.com forums.DarthJon

S-Level Canon
About how old does something need to be to be considered S-Level Canon? --Mgrozo 22:01, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I think those released before the Prequel Trilogy. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 22:58, August 1, 2012 (UTC) Unless it's tales, pre-Thrawn Trilogy. They were the ones to start connecting continuity.

Two questions
"Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon"

Reference Books & other sources... Which ones & where can I find those, please? And also, are the deleted scenes of Episodes IV-VI G-Canon? Patsoumas1995 (talk) 22:57, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, for example, Rothana was included in Attack of the Clones: Incredible Cross-Sections after Lucas mentioned it to one of the creators. Keep in mind we're discussing elements here, not entire works; so while Rothana (and anything else from Lucas) would be G-canon, the rest of the book wouldn't be. As for the deleted scenes, when asked "Are deleted scenes considered G-level," Leland Chee answered "Yes, unless they conflict with something else seen in the films or if the reasoning behind deleting the scene keeps it from being continuity." In 2011, he changed his tune a bit, saying that "Potentially yes, but not always, unless its specifically reinserted into the film like Jabba in ANH and the extended Podracer scenes in the TPM DVD." jSarek (talk) 07:01, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Star Wars: Clone Wars
In the article "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" is mentioned being one of the only two television show to be included in T-canon, but what about "Star Wars: Clone Wars"?

--85.24.183.8 01:56, November 4, 2012 (UTC)Alexander
 * From what I can tell, the original Clone Wars TV series is C-canon. 98.209.237.240 20:02, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Leland clarified this to me on twitter, but he also said that Rebels would be T-Canon (which is, along with almost everything else, made ambiguous by the story group including Pablo, who said "Those letters mean nothing to me ;)" on twitter about levels), of which no note seems to have been taken. Conner itsatrap (talk) 20:23, January 15, 2014 (UTC)conner_itsatrap

Regarding the Sequel Trilogy
How do we define G-canon after the Disney sale? Since Lucas is no loner the head of the company, do we still accept his final say on the matter? For example, would we accept any more "Stewjon's" or "Conan Motti's," as being canon? Doctor Kermit ( Complain. ) 04:36, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's hard to tell. On the one hand we have the G-canon Empire Strikes Back, which Lucas wrote the story and payed for, but otherwise had the least amount of involvement in amongst the films. But on the other hand we have the C-canon Caravan of Courage, for which Lucas also wrote the story and payed for, but also personally took part in directing scenes and was on set for much of the time. Adamwankenobi (talk) 15:28, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

What seems likely given recent comments about VII, VIII, IX completely disregarding the EU is that almost all of C level canon is about to get demoted to S level. This happened to Star Trek in the late 1980s. 71.57.88.173 03:56, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't that polarize the fans against Disney and George Lucas?Nostalgia of Iran (talk) 02:53, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

I think, given that the story group alone controls what is canon, George can no longer say.Conner itsatrap (talk) 20:26, January 15, 2014 (UTC)Conner_ItsATrap

On January of 2014, Leland Chee announced the following, in response to a question regarding whether the fans would be seeing Mara Jade and the Solo twins and other characters from the EU in episodes VII, VIII, and IX:


 * "This can not be made clearer, the post "Return of the Jedi" Expanded Universe, launched in 1991 with the publication of "Outbound Flight", is dead. No story from that point forward counts. The Story Group is going to use the basic descriptions of EU characters as inspiration for new characters, but these new characters will not be the same characters and will not have the same histories.  Luke's wife might come to superficially resemble Mara Jade, but she will not be Mara Jade. Similarly, fans should not expect to see Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn, Cilghal or any of the other EU characters, but rather characters who might resemble them in some ways. That's why Bob Iger said they would use the 17,000 character for inspiration for new characters. But they are only being used for inspiration."

And of course, Bob Iger is CEO of Disney. This statement just about shuts the door on the canon tier system entirely. Not only is everything below C-Canon now non-canon, but so is everything in T-Canon. And the entire idea of differing levels of canon is now scrapped.72.188.178.14 23:31, February 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not that I think you're lying, but can you please post the link that stated this? It's one thing to claim he said it, but as a wiki, we need proof. Well, I guess when Episode VII is inevitably released, we'll move the pre-Sequel trilogy post-ROTJ expanded universe to another wiki if its true that they've been made non-canon. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 23:43, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

"This can not be made clearer, the post "Return of the Jedi" Expanded Universe, launched in 1991 with the publication of "Outbound Flight", is dead." Now that's funny, Outbound Flight was published in 2006. —Super Saiyan 7 Somebody | talk | edits 00:08, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * That can mean only one of two things in that case: Either Leland Chee is growing senile, or the user's trolling. Either way, I'll wait for the anon to post the link, assuming the anon's being honest, anyways. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:20, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

--Roguestar (talk) 03:55, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I vote trolling, anyone who knows anything about the EU would know that Heir to the Empire launched the post ROTJ EU.

Star Wars: Rebels.
I recently asked Leland on twitter about the levels of Droids, Clone Wars, and Ewoks. He said "Currently, the only T-Canon sources are The Clone Wars series by Lucasfilm animation and the upcoming Rebels series." I assume he was talking about TCW as opposed to the mini-series because the "The" was capital, but the tweet also implies two new things. 1: Rebels is T- not C- canon. 2: either the long-since-shelved Underworld is being reduced to C-canon, if so, probably because Lucas' involvement is overruled by Disney, or it has been unofficial officially canned, which is much more likely. The point in sharing this is the page needs to be updated.--Conner itsatrap (talk) 19:36, December 17, 2013 (UTC)conner_itsatrap

New canon policy
Looks like this is going to need a huge update now... (as is the whole wiki). See: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lucasfilm-unveils-new-plans-star-698973 JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 22:04, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah... Anyone have any ideas on how to approach this?

They're talking about it in the Senate Hall. Ps. sign your posts. --Conner itsatrap (talk) 21:08, April 26, 2014 (UTC)Conner_itsatrap

Yes, it's a horrible change (in my opinion), but it's a necessary one. If only Lucasfilm had monitored the EU from the beginning so there would be no conflicts. Wookieepedia said it would simply label any newly non-canonical objects as being Legendary, just as it has on any infinities material. I learned of this on Wookieepedia's instagram. We need an administrator to edit this page. Please see the starwars.com article here: http://starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page.html I don't have an account; that's why I'm not signing.
 * We're aware of this but no changes will be made just yet. Right now we're debating and very soon we'll have formal proposals about the radical changes that the Wiki will be subjected to. I say, give it a few days. Winterz (talk) 19:22, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Divide the wiki in 2
Considering the latest news, and in order to better separacte what is canon and what is not, i think that it would be for the best by the wikia was separated into 2, one would be the Star Wars Legends wiki, containing knowledge of past canon and pretty much what this one already had, and another would be the Star Wars wiki, focusing on what is officially canon in the new Disney SW universe.

85.240.43.215 14:32, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * The idea has been suggested and denied already.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:38, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

People there are afraid of this wikia disappearing, but what i'm suggesting is putting Legends in a new wiki, while this one focuses on canon, this one wouldn't lose viewers at all because it's focusing on canon.

As it is, it's only going to get painfully confusing to have Canon and Legends together, there already are characters with information from both sources, either divide the character pages too or the entire wiki.

Those that don't know the difference will have a hard time getting into the wikia, and start confusing canon with legends.

85.240.43.215 14:49, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * The option to move legends to a new wiki was an option in the vote I linked. It got no support. And we are working on separating Legends and Canon material to different tabs. But it is going to take some time. You are most welcome to help!--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:51, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Movie scripts/screenplays
Has anything official been said about the canonicity of the movie scripts/screenplays? -- Lelal Mekha  (Audience Room) 19:11, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:22, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

New Canon Listing
Shouldn't there be a list of the material that is still canon? Including the new Darth maul comic and Star Wars UK magazine story that aparently are part of the new canon.

85.247.179.5 20:02, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

Anyone wants to give their 2 cents on the subject?

85.246.222.47 17:41, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * We do have a timeline of canon media. -- Lelal Mekha  Old Republic military symbol.svg(Audience Room) 17:54, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * I know that I didn't start this topic, but, if I may add, that is a very nice and helpful list. Roger Murtaugh (talk) 00:28, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Starwars.com Encyclopedia and Databank
Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for including these as canon? I can understand the Databank since it's newly on the official site, but has anybody in the Story Group commented on its status? The citations currently up for the Encyclopedia note that it is obsolete, and it looks like not all information has been carried over (and even if the info had been carried over to the current Databank, shouldn't we cite that instead since it's not a dead link?). For example, references to Bail Organa's wife as the "Queen of Alderaan" cite the Encyclopedia entry for Bail, but this info is not present in the current version of the site, which makes it seem like this has been intentionally deleted as non-canon. What's going on? Thanks! Gonkgonkgonk (talk) 16:09, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Canon rebooted, again, in the future?
Is there any guarantee that the canon won't be restarted, ever again? It'd be a shame to invest in characters and stories, again, if they won't last. Roger Murtaugh (talk) 00:27, October 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * No guarantee, but if it ever happens, it'll be FAAAAAAR in the future. Not really worth worrying about right now.  IFYLOFD  ( Enter the Floydome ) 00:44, October 10, 2014 (UTC)