Talk:Revan/Legends

Revan's canon face
Right the action figure has been realesed and the hood is removable, and shows revan to be bald and white, so does this establish a canon face I wonder well here are two images to look at.--\\Captain KAJ// 10:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean anything, though. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 14:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are we sure? I am not completely sure about the canon status of the action figures. I remember Finis Valorum's figure holding a scepter with the Supreme Chancellor emblem. The scepter had not been seen in the movie, but the seal was. Curtis Saxton mentioned it in his Tech Comments, so I guess he considers the scepter to be canon. Hmmm... --Skippy Farlstendoiro 14:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Regardless, as of now, Revan has no canonical face. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 14:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Being that this is Sith Lord Revan, all it establishes is that Revan had light skin being that there is a year difference and for all we know his hair could have grown back. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 14:48, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I seem to recall an off comment made in the Kotor Comics about like "unless we start shaving our heads and talking about the darkside" or something to that effect may be in fact the canon representation of Sith Revan. Note that all the other male Sith Lords of this era were also bald: Malak, Bandon, Nihilus (maybe), and Sion. We can be sure to some degree that Revan, as a Sith Lord, was bald, but the face, we just dont know. Darth Byss 17:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Where did the second image come from? It wasnt in the game was it? 67.72.98.118 20:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Its from the dark side ending of the game, also how long was there between his capture by the council and serving on the endarspire, because I dont think its long enough for a full head of hair to regrow, at the very least it establishes him to be canocialy white and canocialy bald during his time as sith lord, seeing as there is only one white bald face in the game it fairly certain to be canon.--\\Captain KAJ// 20:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to apologize - I edited the page to "Unknown" before I had the time to check that it wasn't simple fanon. I've altered it back now.--\\Jerroc Sinn// 17:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, that face is not "fairly certain to be canon". As of now, he had no canon face. In addition, we cannot say his hair color was "Bald", as everyone has hair at one point in their life. The only thing regarding Revan that was made known by the figure is that he was white. For all we know, Hasbro didn't put hair on the figure because he has yet to receive a canon face. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 21:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Then why does Malak and Bandon have their hair color as bald, Hasbro intention's are unknown but the action figure is official and establishes an aspect of revans character that was previously unknown.--\\Captain KAJ// 22:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The only thing it establishes is that at some point in Revan's time as a Dark Lord, he was bald. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 23:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I would like to say that since it's a model, they likly just didn't detail any of his flesh in order to spend less time making it. Destroyer Droid 20:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe, but if that were true they wouldnt have made the hood removable at all. The facts are that the action figure establishes Revan to be canonical white and canonical bald, there was not enough time between his capture by the council and him serving aboard the endar spire for a full head of hair to regrow (Vader's didnt regrow at all remember).--\\Captain KAJ// 08:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My humble opinion about this: The figure will establish the canon face for Revan, when the figure is released (Prototypes are not canon, same way as Ramón Bach's drafts for Tomcat are not canon but the final release in the published comic is). Currently we know that Revan canonically had no hair at some point when he was a Dark Lord. This does not mean that jedi Revan had no hair. Conjecture: Revan was not bald, but he simply shaved his head periodically; once he awoke as a jedi, his hair had began to grow again. Thus, we still don't know that. By the way, Hasbro's 1999 Nute Gunray figure suggested that his hairpiece covered the top of his head, while the movie shows that it does not - Thus, the canonicity of that figure is contradicted by a higher-level source. Let's be careful with this subject.--Skippy Farlstendoiro 09:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * untill a canon source comes out and says that a certain face is canon then he won't have a canon face so just deal with it and move on. there are more important things than what he looks like under his mask -- Dark Lord Xander  ( Embrace The Dark Side! )[[Image:MandalorianSymbol.jpg|20px]] 09:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * KAJ: Revan has no established canon face yet. In fact, since that figure is apparently a prototype, we can't even say that Revan was bald (or, to be more precise, had a shaved head). And FYI, Vader's hair didn't grow back because his entire body was mutilated, which would have prevented any hair from growing back. Skippy: Is the mask going to be removable? I don't remember hearing about that. &mdash;Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Imperial Emblem.png|20px]] 11:04, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didnt know it was a prototype, I thought it was the finished product, secondly Skippy if the figure does have a certain face it wont recieve any contradiction from the game becasuse revans face is selected by the player, thirdly Xander fans have been debating on revans true apprerence for nearly four years I think that establashing a canon face is fairly important.--\\Captain KAJ// 16:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Considering that the image is coming from a fan site and from their "personal" galleries, this is without a doubt, the finished product. The item was just released this month I believe so... -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 16:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought the "removable mask" was a confirmed feature of the action figure, but I cannot find any absolute reference to it. Maybe I simply got confused and mistook that feature with the (confirmed) "removable hood". We can simply wait to see the final product and confirm if it is. --Skippy Farlstendoiro 15:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I've often thought Darth Manchu looked the most "I used to be a head of state and top military leader"ish. Giving Revan a removable hood was a horrid idea, but it beckons back to this NPC model image of the NPC Revan's hood removed showing a weird, bald head, regardless of the face picked. However, during the Revelation in-game sequence, the nonbald Revans show hair. So if this is just a prototype and they change the hood to nonremovable, we can call it off. If it's the final product, then we should probably cautiously proceed and maybe contact Leeland Chee for info on Revan's possible canon face/colour/hair or lack of. Lord Patrick 03:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What the fuck are you talking about, there is no character called Darth Manchu.--\\Captain KAJ// 12:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Try and keep it civil, KAJ. --  AdmirableAckbar  [Talk] 12:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1996finnishvidrelease.jpg
 * Well, I'd be satisfied if Malak was estabilished to be bald, 'cause I played him as the bald Asian guy with the goatee. He looked badass when he took the mask off. --Master Starkeiller 16:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you mean Revan. Malak is canonically bald (although, due to the fact he is almost certainly Alek due to his clothes, appearance, talk of painting and shaving his head and babbling about the dark side, apprentice to a hooded, unseen leader of a Jedi Revanchism and military commander, he wasn't always bald). And KAJ, the reason I called that particular Revan head Darth Manchu is because of the uncanny resemblance between that Revan and the literary villain Fu Manchu;

However, there is a more likely inspiration. George Lucas based Star Wars heavily upon the beloved Flash Gordon serials of his childhood, and the villain Ming the Merciless, who himself was probably based on Fu Manchu, looked like this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ming.gif

On a final, more modern note, if this Revan is confirmed as canonical, he will also resemble Sao Feng; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sao_Feng_Pirate_China.jpg, Church of Satan founder Anton LaVey and Kane from Command and Conquer (who founded a religious cult and believed himself the saviour of humanity). So, there are a variety of possible inspirations. I just picked the most obvious and the oldest. Lord Patrick 03:19, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Funnily enough, the figure directly contradicts information from the game. Revan's mask was part of a *helmet*.
 * "Revan was known for wearing full helmet and cape", so sayeth Yuthura.


 * Basically, Hasbro didn't do their research when it came to sculpting the figure, which isn't exactly surprising. Really though, I don't think we're meant to read anything into the canonicity of "white and bald" just because his action figure is that way. I mean, his mask isn't even right if we go by the game, are we to assume that that's what it "really" looked like? Still, the Ming the Merciless head was one of my favourites... just not for light side games ;) (Ulicus 16:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC))
 * Seeing as both the suit, and the mask are wrong; we can't put much faith in Hasbro following canon. So, until another source says so, Revan was not bald at any point in his life.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 18:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, Lord Patrick, I did mean Revan. All the baldness confused me... Well, I for one, am a big supporter of Darth Manchu, seeing how I'm emotionally connected to him. That bald guy with the goatee and epicanthal fold will always be Revan to me. I just need to remember what I had called him. I remember having named the Jedi Exile Domus Esterhazy, but Revan...?
 * And, concerning the discussion, seeing as how he's bald, if the figure has a removable mask, I see Darth Manchu becoming canonical... Toys are canonical when they show us something we haven't seen (like the back of an alien's head, a character's underwear, what some Jedi's boot looks like from behind etc), and if it shows Darth Manchu, mesa bein' mooie-mooie happy. Tis be bombad! --Master Starkeiller 22:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually we can only say that "Revan may or may not have been bald at any point of his life", due to the possibility of bald Revan being canon from the selectable heads. And it is strange. Revan, Malak, Bandon. If they were all bald, are we looking at some kind of freaky, heights out of order Mini-Me thing? Adding Nihilus and Sion to the mix just makes things even worse. Lord Patrick 05:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC) Lord Patrick 10:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC) "Also just to poin out firstly that the action figure is not inacurate as there are two versions of the suit, also the mask was not part of a helmet as seen if you do play as the bald asian guy, when he takes it off you can see the brow of his skull, and there is no other attachment there."
 * Well, clearly, having gone bald at an early age, Revan forced everyone who joined the Sith to shave off their hair out of vanity. (Ulicus 10:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC))
 * Or.. Revan decided to do "Heil Myself" and started a proto-Nazi cult billions of years before humans came to Earth. Anyhoo, can anyone who actually has the action figure confirm the authenticity (or lack of) of these images?
 * Well as Jack Nebulax has said above every human is born with hair, Revan had hair at some point in his life, however the action figure establishes that he was bald during his tenure as sith lord (which means we can add it to the infobox, as is the case with Malak). Also just to poin out firstly that the action figure is not inacurate as there are two versions of the suit, also the mask was not part of a helmet as seen if you do play as the bald asian guy, when he takes it off you can see the brow of his skull, and there is no other attachment there.--\\Captain KAJ// 09:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * All we know is that Revan is male. Until LucasArts decide to discuss the hair color, then we should label this action figure as a "Possible Revan appearence. Darthan the destroyer 20:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Dude, it's called "limited graphics". No Jedi in KotOR wore lightsabers on their belts - is this because they didn't wear them on their belts canonically, or because the graphics engine was limited? Dozens of people througout the galaxy looked *absolutely identical*. Is this becuase they actually looked identical, or because the graphics were limited? Nearly every human in the game was the same height. Is this because everyone actually WAS the same height, or because the graphics were limited? Text > Graphics. Revan wore a helmet and the mask was but the front portion of this. I have absolutely NO problem with the Revan action figure being listed as "Hasbro's interpretation of Revan", but to say that it is flat out 100% canon seems a bit silly when it's contradicting information directly from the game.(Ulicus 00:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC))
 * Any of the facial models from the character generation screen in the first game are possibly Revan, toys don't mean ANYTHING, because unlike the actual Revan, Revan's figure does not have a design on the figure's cape and unlike the actual Malak, Malak's figure has a full cape, the actual Malak has a full one. It's just a figure, and should not be taken as canon, otherwise, we should also say that Darth Vader has a pink lightsaber.--Jedi Kasra 22:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I might disagree with Kasra. As far as I understand the canon in figures, the differences between the figures and other sources are canon. My understanding (remember, IMHO): Darth Vader might have two lightsabers (notice that he lost his hand a few times) or perhaps he could change the color of its blade from red to pink. Nute Gunray had two similar headpieces: one of them covered the top of his head (TPM figure) and the other one did not (as in the movie). Finis Valorum had a scepter with the Chancellor symbol, he simply did not use it in TPM. About Revan, he might have two different capes. Nevertheless, apparently the figure does not show Revan's face (only his bald/shaven head top). This debate has turned to something of a certain importance if defining the politics of Wookieepedia: What's the canon value of the action figures?
 * "every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others."' (Steve Sansweet & Chris Cerasi, Ask the Jedi Council'').
 * --Skippy Farlstendoiro 07:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * But we can't say, "Oh, Revan is either the bald Asian guy or the bald Black guy", just because some figure has him bald. Like I said before, any of the faces from the Character Generation screen are potentially Revan. However it is worth noting that, excluding the blond white guy, all of the white facial models appear in the game. The white guy with the red goatee appears on Tatooine in the bar with Helena Shan, if you play Mullet white guy, Jedi with the 5th white guy's face appeare, if you play as the 5th white guy, vice versa. And lastly the 2nd weird looking white guy appears as a member of the Jedi Council when Vandar re-establishes your character's rank of Jedi Knight. Just something to think about.--Jedi Kasra 19:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. Jaden Korr's existence is canon; Korr's sex and species are unknown. Potentially, Korr can choose either the light or dark side ending of the game (and he could even not end the game). A further source, in this case The Dark Forces Saga, provides further information about some of the details: Sex and species still unknown, but the light side ending is now canon - The dark side ending never happened. To me, this is similar: A further source, in this case an action figure, might provide further information about Vader's lightsaber properties, or about which of the potentially valid options in a game really happened (Kyle Katarn chosing the light in JK:DF2; Korr chosing the light in JK:JA). I never said that Revan was the bald Asian guy or anything; I care little about Revan's true face. I simply think that any new information provided by an action figure is as valid as Pablo Hidalgo's published articles: IMHO, action figures are canon, specially if they provide new information.
 * I personally don't the action figure provides any information about a different character such as the guy with Helena Shan. This character will have his own canon face when a new source solves his discrepancy. Although the programming of the game is obviously related to the discrepancy, the continuity isn't.
 * Nevertheless, Kasra, I am probably not convincing enough to make you change your mind. I am personally convinced myself, and I will keep an eye on this talk page in the future. Always a pleasure,--Skippy Farlstendoiro 08:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Or the top and back of the could helmet happen to be European Skin Tone. Haha. Darth Zaktius 01:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Non-Canon Stuff
I think that we should remove the non-canon stuff from the article, I mean, if it's non-canon, I don't know why we keep it here. Even if it's a possibility in the game, we should just keep what is canon. For example, does Carth really felt in love with Revan? No, he doesn't. But in the game it's an alternate possibility!! ---> Yes it is, but it's not canon, so it does not have any value. I think that it remove credibility to the article, and it should be remove. Even if it's an alternate possibility. 70.81.224.148 20:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)A-D.

It is supposed to be there. Aybfreak 22:03, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's Behind the Scenes. If it's a possibility in the game, then that's where it goes. As long as it stays out of the main article body, then it's fine. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 22:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's actually completely out of universe because it purposely goes against the continuum that it's in and is meant to be set in a separate universe.--User:Wiilover Nintendo Wii 23:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Length of time as Dark Lord
The reference to Revan being Dark Lord for "two years" should be changed to "at least two years" or removed completely. We do not know when he laid claim to the title. For example, if it was when he discovered Malachor, then he was the Dark Lord in secret for at least a portion of the Mandalorian Wars. (Ulicus 15:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC))

I've never heard that he was a dark lord in secret. Please, do tell where you heard that fascinating statement. Darthan the destroyer 20:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair enough.


 * First, the point is that we cannot rule out his perhaps having been the Dark Lord in secret. We DO NOT KNOW when he assumed the mantle, therefore we cannot state with canonical certainty that he held the post for "2 years" (and it was 2 1/2 years anyway if we're talking about the time from the start of the JCW and Revan's capture).


 * Secondly, the games themselves infer that Revan was a Sith Lord for at least the latter stages of the Mandalorian Wars... and the KotOR Chronicles (which, to be fair, are riddled with errors) flat out tell us that he was a Sith Lord for the majority of them.


 * Evidence #1: Immediately after Malachor, the Sith teachings spread through the ranks of Revan's fleet. We're told this by Atton. Would this be possible if Revan only became the Dark Lord after the war? No. It would only be possible if it was something planned for a fair bit of time.


 * Evidence #2: Kreia tells us that the Mandalorian Wars were, in truth, a war of "conversion", acting as the foundation for Revan's army. Revan's SITH army. This wouldn't be true if Revan was not a Sith Lord for at least a fair portion of the war.


 * Evidence #3: We're told that Revan learned the location of Korriban from Malachor. We're also told that Revan embraced the Sith cause on Malachor. Since the Star Map on Dantooine had Korriban's location in it, this means Revan MUST have been to Malachor before he searched for the Star Maps. Since Dantooine was the *first* star map he found, Kashyyyk's map must have been found afterwards. KotOR 1 tells us that Revan last accessed Kashyyyk's Star Map "no less than five standard years" before 3956 BBY - that would be in 3961 BBY, a whole YEAR before the end of the Mandalorian Wars. The smart money is on the post-Malachor Revan being a Sith at this point. (Ulicus 00:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC))

Good call. I agree with you, now that you have a significant amount of proof. Darthan the destroyer 01:07, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, Revan could have just been a Dark Jedi when he found the Star Maps the first time.--Jedi Kasra 13:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Revan as an Author
I think we should add the fact that Revan was an author to his "Abilities" section. In Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, it says that Revan wrote a book called The Rakata and the Unknown World, and I think it also mentions that Revan wrote other books. Anyone else agree?--Jedi Kasra 06:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

TFU Miniature
Should we mention somewhere that he will have his own miniature in the "Force Unleashed" miniature set coming in November? --Sith Alchemy 101 15:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/FUpreview3 --Sith Alchemy 101 10:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you have a source for this information? Because I find it hard to believe that Revan would have a minature in a TFU set, especially considering he lived 4,000 years beforehand.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 22:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * He's being made for the Sith faction.

Possible appearances?
I see that there is a list of 'possible' appearances among the appearances. I think it deserves some mentioning in the 'Behind the scenes' section that there are several occasions in the KOTOR comics which are suspected appearances of him. (Not to mention including those certain pictures with the 'suspicious' figures). As far as I remember there was a section for this purpose in this article or in one of the KOTOR comics' articles, but they all disappeared. Domlith 16:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wookieepedia articles are not for fan speculation. --Imperialles 17:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)