Talk:Clone Wars/Legends

An idea to shorten the article.
As it stands, this article is unquestionably way too long. The reason, in effect, is it attempts to disseminate nearly every single campaign, siege, local conflict, battle, skirmish, and dramatic rescue in a three-year period of galaxywide war. Here's my proposal: why not move the timeline from Timeline of the Clone Wars here, create a new article called Detailed timeline of the Clone Wars or something to that effect, and paste all the information we have now into that? An article on a war doesn't need to detail every single explosion in the entire conflict, look at any articles on wars on Wikipedia for proof. What we have now is basically a timeline anyway, so why not move the ocean of extraneous information to its own article? --Thetoastman 23:54, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think this article should be set more like the article on the Yuuzhan Vong War were it contains a list of the major battles instead of explaining every detail in the battles like this one does. It could also be more set so that it would show the tide of the war instead of once again showing every detail. If people want more details, they can go to the timelines of battles for the clone wars. If no one minds, I'll start drawing up a plan for the new article.


 * I agree (not sure who you are, however, you didn't sign...), the Yuuzhan Vong article is set up much better than this one. What we need is an overview of the tides of conflict, not a month-by-month recap of what every single Jedi was doing.  --Thetoastman 03:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

CompassionateGeneral?
What is the source for the first image on this page? It has a little resemblance to the image farther down the page with the Dark Jedi (which was stated below as from a WotC sourcebook). I absolutely love this painting, and I'd love to know the artist, and ideally be able to get a print of it!
 * Answering my own question. It is in fact from a WotC book, the Galactic Campaign Guide, and the artist is Marc Sasso.  Here is a link to his gallery with the image. - r0bman

Galactic Civil War
Does the Galactic Civil War really start as soon as the Clone Wars end? Our page here even says the Galactic Civil War starts roughly around 0BBY. I think this should be amended. --SeanR 11:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, it's hard to say. I agree that the Galactic Civil War, as formally declared by the Rebel Alliance, did not start until several years after, although resistance groups (like the Talz) began fighting almost immediately after the installation of the New Order. It would probably be a safe bet to have it begin with the formal declaration, but the exact date on that is unclear. --SparqMan 14:28, 30 May 2005 (UTC)


 * The article states that the Galactic Civil War started at the start of the Jedi Purge/end of Revenge of the Sith. It is understood that people were beginning to have rebellious ideas (i.e. the doings of Bail Organa, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Yoda), but is this truly the beginning of the rebellion against the Empire?  Wouldn't the formal date of the rebellion be some time shortly after Revenge of the Sith, but quite some time before A New Hope?--SOCL 02:25, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Some people are inaccurately lumping together the Galactic Civil War (ie Rebels vs. Empire) with the Great Jedi Purge (Empire vs. Jedi) and the Clone Wars. (Republic vs. CIS). For simplicity sakes, I say we have the Clone Wars as 22 - 19 BBY, the Purge 19 BBY - 0 BBY, and the GCW as 0 BBY - 19 ABY. This what most EU publications have, anyway. QuentinGeorge 11:35, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The game Star Wars: X-Wing has small scale engagements which occur between the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance which occur before 0BBY. -- Falmarin 00:53, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The Galactic Civil War definitely began before 0BBY. In ANH the bases on Dantooine Leia refers to "have been abandoned for some time". Also the recovery of the X-Wing prototypes, the numerous defections.... I highly doubt it occurred in a single year. But, I would also doubt that the war would begin immediately/shortly after the Jedi Purge. I guess I'm not an expert but you would think, given the size of the Alliance to Restore the Republic during it's formation, it could not have possibly survived open rebellion even hiding in the shadows. I believe it would have been crushed immediately due to the huge nationalistic burst at the end of the war. Just my opinion. OompaLoompa of DOOM 02:35, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the actual formation of the Alliance (Corellian Treaty) would signify the official rebellion against the Empire, and thus the start of the war. But I don't think there's really an official date - Kwenn 20:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

A resource
Just wanted to point out this site [] as an extremely handy resource for Clone Wars stuff- including a timeline. --Fade 10:47, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Or just copy what I pulled out of that site and put on the List of battles page, and put it here. -- Riffsyphon1024 17:14, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * There's also info on the Clone Wars in general, including in depth details about battles and characters --Fade 18:08, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

First Galactic Civil War?
Could the Clone Wars be considered the First Galactic Civil War? I'm not advocating a name change here, but it does meet the criteria for a civil war. And the names Confederacy of Independent Systems and Grand Army of the Republic seem to imply that the American Civil War influenced Lucas. -- SFH 00:54, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * The American Civil War is known by that name because the United States of America won the war, and from their perspective, the Confederate States of America was not a legal body, thus the conflict was internal. Perhaps if the Galactic Republic had not collapsed into the Galactic Empire, the Clones Wars would have been known as the Galactic Civil War. --SparqMan 06:14, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * If the CIS won it would have been the War of Independence, or perhaps, "The War of Republican Aggression". :) QuentinGeorge 06:43, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that was "Operation Iraqi Freedom". ;-) --SparqMan 09:25, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)

New Essential Chronology
Anyone who has that should go through and make sure that all of the battles/events of the Clone Wars are included on this page. I'll try to do some of that later, maybe put up events here for more in-depth coverage--Erl

picture
What is the source of the picture near the top with the warrior with two sabers? And is it really meant to represent an event in the Clone Wars? Looks suspicious to me. - Angel Blue 451 00:03, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * It's from one of the WotC sourcebooks, so it's legit. QuentinGeorge 04:17, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Just making sure. - Angel Blue 451 20:20, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Revert?
May we please revert to the longer content list to fit the pictures? --Razzy1319 05:36, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Picture
Is the Sith character in the third picture wielding two lightsabers suppose to be Darth Sidious? -Stoll7234
 * Of course not. Just some Dark Jedi. --Master Starkeiller 11:54, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Assaj Ventress? --Anon80

Too long?
I have tried reading this article, and it's so long and complex it's mind boggling. I say more summarisation is needed, and perhaps the sections on the ORS, Coruscant, Utapau and Kashyyyk could be expanded. It's a daunting task to make this article even better, but I think it's needs to be done.

Begun construction. Any help would be appreciated. My edit went slightly wrong and...deleted...half the page.


 * Seriously. I think the problem is that people focus too little on the big picture and too much on the individuals.  Sure, Anakin chased Ventress to Yavin 8 and fought her one-on-one.  But does that matter even an inkling in the big scheme of the war?  No.  Just because there's a story about it and that story takes place during the same era as the Clone Wars doesn't mean that it's necessarily a major conflict or even that it should be mentioned at all.  --Thetoastman 00:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Number of Clones

 * In the movie Attack of the Clones Lama Su says that 200000 are ready with a million more well on the way and if you need more you will need to order them they take time to grow. the war lasted three years not enough time to grow new batches so how could the Republic fight the war when the droids have supperier numbers like the 3690 million droids that escaped from Geonosis and the droids built after that? User:Lucky (talk)
 * You have to remember, ounce for ounce, bone is 5 times stronger than steel. Droids could be shot down quickly and in massive numbers, while clones could take a few hit before they went down. Lord vader1414 20:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)]]
 * Yeah, but unfortunately all the important parts aren't made of bone. ;)  The clone troopers relied more on their creativity to fight a superior droid force rather than just ability to take damage.  Sentient beings, as the clones were, are far more intelligent than any mechanical ones.  --Thetoastman 00:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You have to remember, Sidious created the war, and Sidious controlled it. So it's highly likely that he manipulated it to even it out for both sides. And I take issue with this whole 'clones are creative blah blah blah' thing. In the battlefield, there isn't much chance for creativity. You just have to survive. And anyway, it says in Shatterpoint that droids can react faster than any organic.-Unit 8311 10:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but droids had to be programed to take any action whatsoever. At least, in general they did. I mean, come on! How creative is YOUR computer? Not very. Without pressing keys and clicking links it dosent do much, am i right? And i realize that the important parts arent made of bone, i was just making a point. :) -Lord vader1414 19:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * My computer can process information millions of times faster than I ever could, and it can do thousands of calculations at once, for one. Unit 8311 10:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but humans have emotions, creativity. Just because a compy can process info fast, dosnt make it better. Who do you think PUT the info there in the first place? HUMANS! Over all, sentient beings are better. Besides, we shouldnt be talking about this here. This is something for a user talk section, not the clone wars. If you want to keep arguing, head over to my talk section. -Lord vader1414 21:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This has gone off topic, and this is a Wiki talk page, not a forum to discuss the effectiveness of droids or clones. --Sauron18 17:18 23 June 2006
 * THANK YOU Sauron18! At long last! Someone who agrees! I owe you one! -Lord vader1414 22:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Odd image
I noticed that in the JediStrikeForce.JPEG image, there is a jedi with a tiger's head. The head looks like it was photoshopped or something. Is there any aliens in the GFFA that looks like him, or is this a genuine case of vandalism?
 * Cathar --Razzy1319 01:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep, it's canon. It's a Cathar.  The head looks a little odd in contrast, but the claws prove it.  --Thetoastman 00:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Dark Jedi Survivors
In the section involving Dooku's attempts to train several dark-siders it mentions that the only two in the list to survive were Quinlan Vos and Assajj Ventress. But wasn't Ventress killed by Anakin on Yavin IV during the cartoon. I could very well be wrong since the cartoons and the books don't agree with each other on several points.OompaLoompa of DOOM 02:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Ventress wasn't killed at Yavin. She appears in several comics and books later, with her last confirmed appearance in Obsession. - Lord Hydronium 02:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I really don't think this new infobox thing is very necessary. It just clogs up the article and anyway it's not been fully established just how many casaulties and strength both sides possesed. I want to get rid of it; anyone with me? -Unit 8311 12:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * i agree, i really don't like this, its not as streamlined as the old one, and also the image intro has gone, which really did improve the article. Jedi Dude


 * The War Template is standard for all conflicts now and basically every war has been revised to include it. There was a vote held a few weeks ago over whether to replace the image intro with the template, and the template won.  Therefore, I'm oretty sure it's going to stay.  --Thetoastman 23:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Civilian perception
Since the section I added makes some pretty broad claims about civilian mentalities on both sides of the war, I'm just going to say right now that everything in there is directly from canon, most notably the first chapter of the ROTS novelization and Shatterpoint. --Thetoastman 23:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Casaulties
What do you estimate the ammount of casaulties in the Clone Wars is? --24.247.126.44 05:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Niko?
Who in black holes is Niko? This appears to be some vandalism... Commander Darc 01:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Correct. Fleet Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) [[Image:Implogo.jpg|20px]] 01:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Can I fix it? Or do you need it to "track" the guy? Commander Darc 01:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Six thousand?
I just want to know if there's a source for this comment in the Battle of Coruscant section:

The Jedi working with the clones fought bravely and about six thousand droids were lost in the battles that ensued

If 6000 droids really were lost, then the CIS must have had miniscule casualties given that Lord of War states the Seps had a hundred million droids on Coruscant. Can someone please tell me where this is from? Thanks. Unit 8311 16:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The original Clone War
This article is supporting the movie storyline... Has there been any thought as to posting an article about the "extended universe" Clone War? Because it is very different from this one.

In the extended universe storyline there were no grand armies of clones clashing against droids or such. Chouncelor Palpetine used clones to replace key members of the senate with clones that were programed to support him in his may legislative changes. By the time the Jedi found out about it, it was too late for them to do anything because they had already been declared traitors and manipulators of the people, made out to be the bad guys.

Garml Bel Ibles uncovered the cloning plot by bringing the dead body of the clone sent to kill him, to the senate chamber durring session. He was cast out as a the Clone, and hunted as a traitor. He escaped and shows up in "I Jedi" (I believe, though could be wrong"

I know there are people out there who know more about this than I do... but is is possible to include this infomation in the database?
 * Erm...what are you talking about? And could you sign your comments? Thanks. Unit 8311 16:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

SAGroup/Republic Youth Brigade
I have a question about SAGroup. According to 'Bassadro massacre' part it was formed by Republic. Is it correct? May be it was Republic Youth Brigade at first? --Darth Igel 15:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Main Pic
ok, so I know the main pic has been there forever and all, but I was thinking that maye we should have a picture that is a little more rounded. For instance, in the GCW pic, there is a stormtrooper front and center, but you can still see rebles in the background as well as X-Wings and TIEs. We should at least attempt to find a pic that shows both faction combatants in the war. I might suggest the cover art of Battlefront II. You can see the Jedi Generals on one side and Vader and the clones on the other, showing the war and its results in a nutshell. Id be fine if it wasn't the BFII cover, but if there is a better picture out there, let it be known (a picture incorperating Palpy in one way or another would work as well, seeing how this whole war was his little chess match with himself) Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy)  22:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Conflicting information...
In LOE, it says that the Republic was winning towards the end of the war. And in the ROTS novel, the characters and the intro clearly say that the Republic was loosing. Quote from the ROTS novel by Obi-Wan: ''No wonder we're losing. They're getting smarter''. Unit 8311 13:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that in the books. All other sources say that the Republic was winning though, and that the battle seemed to be a desperate strike by Grievous in an attempt to gain some ground. I always assumed the Republic was winning (and then the ROTS novel is wrong) because the CIS had lost all the Outer Rim worlds, although it was by design. Chack Jadson 18:55, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, one source says the CIS had prolonged the war only through sheer numbers, so I thought the Republic had gained control. Chack Jadson 18:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I also think that the ROTS ICS also implied heavily that the CIS was doing well...Unit 8311 20:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that Kenobi was simply referring to the Battle of Coruscant? That was when he made that quote, correct?  I understand that the Republic was owning the last section of the battle, but Skywalker and Kenobi had only just arrived on scene.  With the message they recieved from Windu saying that the Chancellor has been captured, I too would asume that meant we were loosing the battle...Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) [[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]] 17:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Er, I made a mistake with the quote. It's no wonder we're losing the war. Check the book if you don't believe me.Unit 8311 14:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats ok, I believe you, I too read the book. I also believe the Visual dictionary implied that the Republic was headed downwards as well.

After considering the contradicions, the reason may just be a difference in opinion as to what the term "losing" means. A galactic stalemate may be what Kenobi considers a loss...Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 20:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Kamino

 * Should we have a picture from the Battle of Kamino taken from a screenshot of Battlefront II?
 * AFAIK, no. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 16:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)