Talk:Lumiya

Copyright
This article looks to be almost entirely (if not completely) copied from (Databank article). And according to the 'terms of use ' of the site,
 * Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited.

Certainly doesn't sound like it allows the material to be submitted to a wiki. --Maru


 * Added copyvio tag, but I don't know how to make the URL pretty. --Eion 18:44, 29 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, so I noticed the copyright problem when I was researching Lumiya to write a wikipedia article- I'm gonna copy it over to the tem page; there are no copyright issues with that version, since all my contributions are public domain, and it includes no quotes or pics. --Maru

Naming
This should be at Shira Brie, shouldn't it? QuentinGeorge 22:14, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I thought that when faced with two semi-equal names, the convention was to go with the one the character used last, similar to using the last held rank/title. She began as Shira Brie, but became Lumiya. Is that incorrect? --SparqMan 00:05, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Correct, but "Lumiya" is technically a Sith name, like Darth Tyranus. The Ep3 Novel and VD state that  Dooku thought of himself solely as "Darth Tyranus" for the entire Clone Wars, yet we still have his page at Dooku. (Also, check out Revan and Malak). QuentinGeorge 00:20, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * As an added note, I think we make an exception if their birth name is considered quite obscure (as in Padmé Naberrie or Mith'what'ever'it'is for Thrawn) --Fade 00:31, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I realize the Dooku situation, but I guess the difference was that she completely abandoned Shira Brie when she became Lumiya, as Vader did with Anakin (except that he came back in the end). --SparqMan 00:35, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lumiya states in Marvel Star Wars #96 that her full name is Shira Elan Colla Brie. Jan 31, 2006

Not Darth
Excuse me for my complete unfamiliarity with the post-Endor era. (Actually, I have reasons for it, but never mind.) The quesion is: if Lumiya indeed followed the tradition of having a Sith alias, why isn't she a Darth? - Sikon 12:34, 29 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Not all Sith have the Darth title/name. QuentinGeorge 21:57, 29 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen her ever call herself Darth Lumiya or be called that by anyone else. --SparqMan 00:41, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Lumiya isn't a Sith
Lumiya is no Sith Lady. She is a Dark Jedi. She may be a Sith underling like the ones the Sith used before the Rule of Two, but she definitely doesn't belong to the "Dark Lord" category. The Databank says nothing about Lumiya being a Sith. Her being a Sith Lady is merely a theory, it isn't canon. Her only canon connection to the Sith is the title she took without asking anyone and the few Sith tricks Vader showed her that he wasn't supposed to. Please do not mire the Wiki with theories that are not canon...T (unsigned comment by User:Starkeiller) --194.30.198.104 20:11, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)Leland Chee has stated that she is some kind of Sith. But not a Dark Lady of the Sith. The kind of underlings from before the Rule of Two. Like the guys training in the Sith Academy in K.o.t.O.R.. These were Sith, but not Dark Lords. The Dark Lords are always two, at certain times one, at others three, at others a couple. But their underlings were trained in some of the Sith arts. The Rule of Two was broken after the Emperor's death, but the Sith were extinct. The Sith that were always two; no more, no less, the full Sith, the Dark Lords. Not the "quasi-Sith" underlings, though. --194.30.198.109 01:00, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)Okay, but all this is just theories. Officially, there is no new Sith Order founded by Lumiya. She took the title without having been properly trained in the ways of the Sith. Officialy, she is not a real Dark Lady. That is all that matters. If she officialy becomes one, it can be added to the Wiki. Until then, no.
 * Well, the Databank entry does call her "Dark Lady", but the word Sith isn't used. Perhaps you have a point here. - Sikon 15:53, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Star Wars Gamer called her "Dark Lady of the Sith", hell, that was what she was labelled in her first appearance, in Marvel Star Wars. QuentinGeorge 21:14, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * PS, there is no Dark Jedi category here, so please don't put her in one. (That's why it's red, see?) QuentinGeorge 21:15, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Regardless, Lumiya wasn't a) A member of Bane's order and B) In Bane's order, sometimes the rules were circumvented: ie see Darth Millennial, and note that Sidious began training Maul BEFORE Plagueis died. QuentinGeorge 21:27, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * What, since when did you need permission to name yourself Dark Lord of the Sith? Both Darth Revan and Darth Ruin refounded the order without any specific "permission". If she claimed the title, and no one disputed it, what's the difference? QuentinGeorge 06:04, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Officially, there is no new Sith Order founded by Lumiya. - incorrect, Star Wars Gamer says there is. QuentinGeorge 06:33, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * First of all, there is a Category:Dark Jedi characters. Also, for succession boxes, I've always assumed it was a pretty loose system. Lumiya was the main carrier of the Sith banner post-ROTJ, so that's why I thought she belonged in the box. It wouldn't imply official "passing of the torch" between her and Vader, it'd be more like on Nero. But I haven't read anything she's in, and we should certainly explain this in the Behind the Scenes section. We should also put asteriks in Palpatine and Vader's succession boxes-LtNOWIS 07:42, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Lumiya is a sith. Granted not a fully trained one, but a sith nontheless. She proclaimed herself to be, just like Exar Kun, Darth Revan, Darth Ruin, Darth Bane, and Kyp Durron. Sith apprentices might have began training their own disciple when they surpassed their masters or, they had learned all they could and needed an apprentice stronger than their master. Obviously Vader saw something in her, if he thought she could help him assassinate Sidious. She was also probably the most powerful of the emperors hands. she established a new order.


 * If you simply look at their history, you will notice that the many different dispensations of the Sith Order do have their smilarities; but these are far out-weighed by their differences. Lumiya is just as valid a Sith as any other Sith in the history of the Galaxy. The simple fact that she was outside of Bane's specific dogma is of little to no consequence - as it was only one of the many different Sith Orders to exist throughout time, and ended with the death of Sidious and redemption of Anakin.--Master Dakari 03:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

If Lumiya isn't a Sith, why should we call Luke Skywalker a Jedi? He probably received even less official training than she, and he did not adhere to the tenets of the Old Jedi Order, either. By the way, was Kyp Durron really ever a Sith? Not only wasn't he formally trained, he also never identified himself as such. Evir Daal 09:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, Kyp did call himself a Sith--hell, he called himself Dark Lord of the Sith--during his visit to Endor. Thanos6 10:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I meant publicly. But I see your point, too. Evir Daal 13:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Kaiburr Crystal?
Where did say Lumiya got her hands on it? I thought Luke had it and used it to enhance his blade...Thanos6 01:14, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC) TalonCard 04:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's in her databank article, though that might have come from another source. &mdash; Silly Dan  01:45, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Huh. So...what, did she filch it from Luke somehow?Thanos6 01:54, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the original source for that is Abel's Emperor's Pawns article. Lumiya's Kaiburr crystal is a shard from the one Luke had--Vader was left with the shard at the end of Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

Eh...?

 * Someone keeps changing the succesion box from 11 ABY to 11 BBY. whoever is doing that, stop!-user:remoh

Pictures

 * I think we should include at least one picture of Shira Brie before her cybernetic surgery to this article. Does anyone still has these old comics? I know that I had the one where Shira gets shot down by Luke and later rescued by Vader to be put in a bacta tank ... unfortunately I cannot remember where I might have put that one. Tulon 20:20, 25 Jan 2006 (UTC)
 * I added an image of Shira from the New Essential Guide to Characters. I hope this helps. Narbflick
 * I think it would be interesting if the article had pictures of the entire progression of her costume during the Marvel run. It already has the metal suit she wore in her first appearance as Lumiya and the black and grey armor she wore when she fought Luke. I seem to recall at least two other costumes: one where she had this kind of transparent veil or something (she was in a spaceship at the time, that's all I remember) and one in the very last issue where she looked like she was wearing a lampshade on her head. I don't have these images and they're not needed, but I thought they might enhance the article somehow. Lieutenant Gerard 02:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Bloodlines
Are we just speculating that she is in Bloodlines? I havent seen anything saying she is.. --2Guns 05:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's been confirmation she's in Bloodlines specifically, but the LFL continuity guys have confirmed she's in the LotF series - Kwenn 12:39, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Karen Traviss did say that she's in Bloodlines. Kuralyov 19:06, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * And we know now she's in Betrayal as well. QuentinGeorge 11:40, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Quote
This quote sounds like it's from LotF. Should we remove it as a spoiler?--Commander Jake 15:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * A) If you'd looked at the source of the quote, you'd have seen that it is indeed from LotF and B) Why remove it, when it spoils absolutely nothing except 2 or 3 sentences she spoke to Alema in Sacrifice?!?

Speculation?
"Azur-Jamin was rescued by Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade soon after the end of the war, and it remains unknown who had trained the Force-strong Yuuzhan Vong: it can only be assumed that it was Lumiya." Isn't this a little too speculative? "It can only be assumed" makes it sound too definitive. There's been no official acknowledgement of this, as far as I know. That may be better for a behind the scenes section, since mostly fans have guessed this.--JMM 16:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Just noticed the change. That's better. :) --JMM 15:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Rogue Squadron Listing
I see she is listed a part of the "Rogue Squadron Personnel" category, but on the page she is listed as "Lumiya". Really, shouldn't she be listed as "Shira Brie", the name she held while in the squadron? I tried to change it, but using the |Brie, Shira designator in the category doohickey just put her as "Lumiya" under the Bs. Is there any way to make that work? Havac 03:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there's not...it's an issue that's been brought up in the past, but I'm afraid there's no way to change it that we know of. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 03:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Contact With Vergere
"Sometime before the Battle of Ebaq 9 (or possibly before the Yuuzhan Vong War itself), Lumiya had somehow entered into contact with Vergere, a former Jedi Knight and Sith apprentice who had been captured by the Yuuzhan Vong prior to the Clone Wars. After this contact was established, Vergere passed on her view of Sith teachings (influenced by Darth Vectivus and the Potentium) to Lumiya. From these lessons, Lumiya accepted that she was incapable of realizing her full Sith abilities due to her cybernetic additions, but also felt that Palpatine and Vader had not been true Sith either." I was wondering what the source of this info is, since she didn't mention a meet up with Vergere in Betrayal --ThrawnRocks 04:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * No, but that book did tell you about Lumiya meeting Vergere. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 05:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * When was that? I don't recall... --ThrawnRocks 15:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Quite near the end of the book, when Lumiya revealed her true identity to Jacen and was explaining how Vergere had been trained by Darth Sidious, had tried to kill him, then ran away with the Vong. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 15:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, so we're just taking it out of that scene. I thought that that part was takne from an explicit statement somewhere that "Vergere met with Lumiya" rather than inferrence from that scene that they had met (I'm assuming it's such, since I can't find any quote there where Lumiya says she met with Vergere).  Thanks! --ThrawnRocks 16:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's implied in the new article that she met Vergere thanks to contact she had with Nom Anor shortly after Carnor Jax died. --Sauron18 17:30 23 June 2006 (CDT)

No she believes that they misused the teachings of the sith, in actuality they lived it to the letter, and lumiya is the same as they were, which you will see in upcoming books. I do see a parallel with Luke and Jacen with Yoda and Dooku. 24.158.73.178 17:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's fair to lump Jacen and Dooku into the same mold. They share certain philisophical views, but as far as sheer power and skill, Jacen far out matches Dooku. Also, there will be no room for Lumiya to betray Jacen as Dooku was betrayed...Jacen is supposedly predestined to be HER master...a fact that she seems startlingly content with, for a Sith. This willing surrender of power is a testament to her dedication to something....it is not clear yet if this is galactic peace or simple revenge on Luke. Surprisingly, Boba Fett seemed to think that the very fact that Jacen was about to be a Sith Lord revenge enough...this may be a foreshadowing of Lumiya's own thoughts on the subject...or the beginnings of them. DawnStrike 20:31 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I meant that Dooku was once a promising and great jedi, turned to the darkside, thought he was stronger than yoda, was proven dead wrong. Jacen is much like this. He thinks he will become stronger than Luke, but he won't.

Lumiya and Vergere were both working together and the more I read the more I'm thinking that Lumiya is using Jacen to get to Ben. I love how they were considering Leia, Kyp, and Jaina to be the one they wanted. The also seems to be involved with the creation of Darth Krayt's order. I suppose they want a leader for the Sith and Jacen definately seems to have the power and influence to be that.

Azrakel
With the new added info on Azrakels page and the Prophets of the Dark Side, shouldn't something be added to her page about her aiding in their demise. RushinSundaws 06:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"former lover"
I don't think you can really call her this. I don't think her and Luke's relationship went beyond a single kiss. That's at least all we know for certain. It's possible their LOTF meeting will mention more. --JMM 12:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It did, Bloodlines confirmed they were lovers. Thanos6 00:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

But Tempest says that they never consummated their relationship. Something like 'former flame' or something might be better. -- SingAurraSing 22:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Death
Someone should put about her dual with luke in this article and mention her posible death, 69.26.85.156 23:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I was reading the Exile teaser and Jacen says that "Lumiya would like to know this" or the like. Apparently she probably survived........... 69.22.60.44 02:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Can we even be sure she's dead after Sacrifice? No way even a cyborg could survive decapitation, but Lumiya was unusually gifted with projecting Force phantoms... Didn't Dooku pull a similar doppelganger move when he was apparently killed by Anakin BEFORE Episode III?

Outfit
So is she really still wearing that ridiculous outfit? I mean now that she's moved from the weirdo comic-world to be a more mainstream villain, they really ought to have some artist redraw her - lalala_la

Image
Argh! Who put in this horrible image? It's low-quality and it looks more like a painting than an actual EU image. Can someone change it to something better? Would appreciate it. Unit 8311 17:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There are 8 images in the article. Care to be more specific? --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming he means the main image, which is from the NEC and is probably the best image we have of her - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 17:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do mean the main image. And if it's the best we have, then I'd hate to see the worst! Unit 8311 18:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

"Posing" as a cyborg?
In the "Dark Lady of the Sith" -part of the article, it says that she posed as a cyborg. I haven't read that part of the mythos, but with numerous cybernetic implants, just what kind of posing are we talking about here? Is it supposed to say droid? DarthMRN 12:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Quote change
Hey there, I just wanted to tell you that I changed the quote to something that seems to speak a little bit more to her personality than to her views on things. I figured it was more appropriate and all. It's from Sacrifice (fyi), and if we decide it doesn't work we can change it back and I'll be fine with that.--Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 11:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Shira in Marvel 55?
Hey all,

Does anyone else own Issue 55 of the Marvel Star Wars, or the equivalent "A Long Time Ago" Trade Paperback? I've always thought that this was the first appearance of Shira Brie, but I can't be completely sure. Near the beginning of the issue, when the Rebels awake to find the Hoojibs draining their power, a girl whom I believe is Shira emerges from a tent and says "It's the Hoojibs! They're energy eaters! We've got to-- Blast! They've even drained the power packs on our weapons!"

It takes place at night, so the girl is completely blue --- no way to know if she has red hair. Does anyone know if this is Shira, who only goes on to be identified by name in the following issue? Menkooroo 20:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

No other Sith at the Time
I was just thinking that in Sacrifice, the Sith Meditation Sphere specifically says that there are five dark ones in the galaxy. The first is Lumiya herslf, the second is the Lord-to-be (Jacen), the third is the Broken One (Alema), and the fourth and fifth are the ones with the ship's flame, Mara and Ben. If these are the galaxie's dark ones, doesn't that rule out other Sith operating in the galaxy. In Tempest all Lumiya said was that a plan was in place to ensure that Jacen would become a Sith Lord. It was Alema who assumed that there were other Sith at the time, which there arn't.--Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 3:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * See Darth Krayt. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 11:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What am I supposed to be seeing there? 130 ABY?  I was saying this because this article includes speculation regaurding Lumiya's words.  If your talking about 100 years before 130 ABY the key word there is CIRCA, meaning around.  That could easily mean 40aby, 45aby...anytime around there really.  Please specify what you are asking me to "see".--Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) [[Image:Oldsith.png|30px]]23:46, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't really trust a ship on this, even a half-sentient one. Its definition of "dark ones" is strange from the beginning, and it only talks about the people it have met. Charlii 09:22, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Charlii on this one, cause really, the ship can't be that smart if it thinks Ben is dark. Didn't Lumiya herself say that he wasn't Sith material? Darth Cronus 02:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

List of Prosthetics
I was wondering if maybe we should include a list of prosthetics, or at least mention it in the BTS section. I think it's interesting if not important to know what was left of Lumiya by LOTF, since her pictures don't reveal that much....--Sauron18 13:22, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Dead?
So, we have proof positive that she's dead this time? I mean, she has this nasty habit of getting Not Dead when you least expect it, so... Rodtheanimegod4ever 04:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well she was beheaded...and while some people might be able to come back from that...I doubt she will. &mdash;Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 04:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Whoa, when was this? PitchBrick 22:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe she's just "| mostly dead"

Age and Birth sources?
Can we get a source on Lumiya's age and birthplace? I think we know that she grew up on Coruscant or was raised there, but that doesn't mean she was born there. Luke was raised on a different planet than he was born on, for example. --JMM 14:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I found the source for her birth on Coruscant and updated the reference. The age is still uncertain. --JMM 15:18, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The New Essential Guide to Characters says her homeworld was unknown, but "Lumiya: Dark Star of the Empire" claims "Born Shira Elan Colla Brie, she was a native of the beautiful planet Coruscant, and was raised on an estate belonging to Senator Palpatine." Use of the word "native," so close to the word "born" in the same sentence, leads me to think she was indeed born there.  jSarek 15:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The Marvel issue I've cited actually says "Born in Empire capitol." The term Coruscant, of course, had not been invented at that time. --JMM 15:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't get much clearer than that. I wonder why the NEGtC calls her homeworld "unknown"? jSarek 20:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sloppy research, prob'ly. Darth Cronus 03:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Shira Brie image replaced?
I've uploaded a different version of the Shira Brie image from the NEGC twice, and it keeps getting reverted back to the original. I even cited the source and license, etc, for the picture. All I did was remove some of the unnecessary white space around the image so it can be zoomed in on without taking up too much space and take up less memory. Just curious why I can't upload what I think is a better image. --JMM 02:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The image you keep uploading is of extremely poor quality. Smaller then the original image that I replaced in the first place. Stick with the high-rez version. If you need it to stand out more in the article then just raise the pixels on the thumbnail. -- Redemption [[Image:Redemptionusersymbol.png|20px]] Talk 03:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. I gotta say I messed something up there. When I cropped the image and re-saved, I didn't realize there was a much lower resolution for a default than I normally have set. Not sure how that happened... D'oh! --JMM 03:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)