Talk:Mara Jade Skywalker/Archive1

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Move to "Mara Jade Skywalker"?
Move to "Mara Jade Skywalker"? --SparqMan 14:17, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it should be moved back to just Mara Jade, since it applies to all parts of her life, whereas "Mara Jade Skywalker" only applies to her life after marrying Luke. --Andrettin
 * The policy here is that the title for a character page goes by whatever they were called latest in their life; for example, Lumpawarrump changed his name to Lumpawaroo, Leia married Han Solo and thus became Leia Organa Solo, and if Darth Maul's real name really is Khameir Sarin (which the jury is still out on) that applies as well, and so on. MarcK 17:28, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, Grevious goes under his earlier name--The Erl

Picture
The Picture shows Mara Jade (with Sith/Dark Jedi cloak and robe) aboard the Death Star II. -- Eddyward Telerionus 21:44, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * That could be any number of Imperial vessels or facilities. IIRC, Mara was nowhere near the second Death Star. --SparqMan 07:43, 31 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that the current picture should be replaced with it's predecessor. That is more of the 'Official Mara picture', and it looks better. What do you all think? Zinnos

Date of Birth
Are we sure she was born in 17 BBY? I had also seen it as 21 BBY. -- SFH 03:11, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * It floats around in the EU, but according to Leland Chee, 17 BBY is now being treated as Mara's "official" birthdate. QuentinGeorge 06:42, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * The latest official date is now 18 BBY, per Leland Chee's blog from a few weeks ago. Kuralyov 22:23, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems like she would have been born before 18 BBY. If "Extinction" is cannon, then she is 17 in that story. She seemed a little older.
 * Perhaps. But "officially", she's eighteen as of 0 BBY QuentinGeorge 11:04, 8 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Parentage
Who says that she's the child of any known characters? Plus, Allegiance, the Zahn novel of '07 may help clear this up--Erl I think the Quin/Khaleen theory can be erased. In the latest Republic #83, Quin says he can sense his unborn child through the force and specifically refers to it as "him."
 * Nothing, really -- but putting fan speculation in a clearly marked "Behind the Scenes" section helps stop people from thinking it's canon. (See also Palpatine's first name, Jar Jar Binks's alleged death, etc.)  &mdash; Silly Dan  17:05, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)
 * Removed it, the new issue confirms this. Lonnyd 01:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll just add to it. Lonnyd 05:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Homeworld
Should we put Raised on Coruscant as her homeworld? -- SFH 00:08, 27 Sep 2005 (UTC) Okay, if that's what you think. Also, I wasn't going to actually put it in without some other voices. I just thought that it would be a good way to get some consensus on the issue. I hate it when nobody answers after two weeks. -- SFH 23:11, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC) Is ((Chandrila]] Maras real homeworld? if it isnt then why it does state so? Dark Lord
 * Okay, I have a policy on discussions. If I do not recieve a response on a controversial question in a certain amount of time, I assume no one objects, or no one is watching. So, if I do not recieve an answer for Raised on Coruscant in 3 days, I'm going to put it up. -- SFH 21:41, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I object. It's not known that she was raised on Coruscant; her first appearance is just before ANH, and we have no idea where she was rained/raised for the previous 18 years. In fact, the best argument for a possible 'home' would be "Recruitment," and even there it shows Palpatine's dark side converts being trained on Byss, not Coruscant. Kuralyov 22:23, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think we know if she grew up on Coruscant or not. Do we? --Master Starkeiller 18:57, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope. We do know that Lumiya was though, and that's probably were the confusion comes from. QuentinGeorge 03:30, 16 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was aware that Lumiya was a Coruscanti. I just believed that Coruscant was the most likely place for Mara to have been trianed. I didn't know that Palpatine had located Byss that far back. So maybe we should put raised on Byss. -- SFH 03:39, 16 Oct 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that in the Thrawn trilogy, she describes being taken by Palpatine to Coruscant when she's first found, and raised in the Imperial Palace. --McEwok 00:41, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I read there wasn't any source, so until there is. I should also point out that at wikipedia someone managed to slip "Chandrila" as her homeworld. --Sauron18 01:07, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Shannon as Mara
Just curious, what is Shannon Baksa/McRandle's status in SW? Is she still the "official" Mara Jade? Since the cards are now produced by a different company my guess is that she's not. Also the cover for Survivor's Quest had a different model on it. Jed-eye 00:07, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * Wizards also used her. jSarek 02:39, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * The SQ cover seems to be a photomanip of a picture of Angie Everhart. --McEwok 00:41, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
 * I always kinda wondered why they used her in the first place. Her hair is the wrong color. Zahn describes it as red-gold while Shannon's hair color is definitely auburn&hellip; Whatever.– 20:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * She's Lucasfilm-approved, and would probably be the first one put forth to model for any new cards. If anything, for continuity's sake.Tocneppil 17:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Shannon McRandle had her body scanned for the recent Gentle Giant mini-bust of Mara Jade that was available at Gen Con. So I think she's most definitely still the "official" Mara. - Breathesgelatin 19:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

NJO Info
I added some NJO info in her bio. It's detailed up until the second to the last paragraph. Feel free to expand the last paragraph. Jed-eye 22:14, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Dark Nest/Swarm War?
The sections in this article for The Dark Nest Crisis and The Swarm War seem to have less to do with Mara Jade then they do with the respective events. Perhaps the information in them should be seperated out into the respective topics?--Anon80
 * I agree, those two sections need some serious trimming. we got to keep the focus on Mara herself, not the conflict at large. unfortunately, i don't have time to go thru and trim all unnecessary stuff out, can someone please help us out here? Wstonefi 03:37, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Improvement Drive
Okay - inspired by the improvement drive, I'm starting reworking on this: initially, I thought it was just a few quirks, but I seem to have drawn myself into a thorough going over of the pre-NJO sections and adding a seperate personality/personal section. Look for it to be posted in a day or two. If no-one picks up on the rest, I'll do that too. --McEwok 18:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed there's no mention of the part she played (however small) in the Corellian Trilogy, as an independent trader in the Jade's Fire, delivering Thrackan's message to Han & Leia. Enochf 04:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Image
Can we add the pic from the new essential chrono because its a good pic, maybe even better than the main image? it needs to be in somewhere. Jedi Dude

Lando
Someone who knows about this subject should definitely add in the details of Lando and Mara's relationship. Kuralyov 21:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC) User:JainaSolo32
 * I did recall reading somewhere that Mara may have had a crush on Lando
 * There's some talk between Luke & Mara in the Hand of Thrawn duology -Zahn straightening up the Lando stuff from other writers, I think- where she tells Luke that the Lando stuff was some kind of cover she was using. Tocneppil 19:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Lando pretty aggressively hits on Mara in the Jedi Academy trilogy... - Breathesgelatin 19:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In Children of the Jedi, by Barbara Hambly, there's a part when Leia and Han call Mara Jade in the middle of the night and it says that she is wearing "a shirt Leia recognized as belonging to Lando Calrissian" & later in the book Han calls her again after Leia goes missing and is says that Lando appears behind her "dressed in his best purple satin for an evening out." I know it's not much, but for me it always said that they at least had some sort of relationship going on. ILOVEnerfherders 05:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That same scene is also discussed in the Hand of Thrawn. It was also part of the cover - Mara was expecting a call from someone that she and Lando were conning, and got the call from the Solos instead. jSarek 06:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Lightsaber
She took on young Jedi Jaina Solo as her apprentice and constructed a new lightsaber modelled after Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn's. Where was this mentioned? Thanos6 03:21, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The part about her taking on Jaina as an apprentice is from 'Vector Prime.' As for the new lightsaber, I've been wondering about that myself. Can someone tell me exactly what source this comes from? --Benkenobi84 06:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I brought it up in the Qui-Gon talk page. It smells like fanon to me. - Angel Blue 451 22:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed it until a source is found. Angel Blue 451 03:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Legacy of the Force
Isn't there more info on Mara in Betrayal? And aren't there better quotes for her? JainaSolo32

What do you people think if I write in the behind the scenes that she probably died along with Luke Skywalker around the Legacy eras (130 ABY? No human has ever lived 150 years! Not even in star wars).
 * Most people would guess that I think. Stating it won't really add anything and it'd just be spectulation. -Fnlayson 04:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless she died first and he out-lived her by a number of years.Tocneppil 20:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I remeber reading somewhere that like Master Fay lived for like 199 years.

Main Image
Who supports putting the previous, better quality main image back? - Angel Blue 451 00:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not to be biased, but the previous pic has better composition, which works better in the larger size.Tocneppil 02:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I prefer the old one as well. -- Ozzel 05:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * ditto. 06:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Right. I'll replace it. - Angel Blue 451 16:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
The pics in this article need to be sorted out. There are way too many in the first part and poorly spaced out. Further down there are not so many pictures. With a gallery dedicated to Mara, I don't think all these need to be up there. --Eyrezer 05:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it is rather image-heavy. -- Ozzel 05:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * My first vote for which image should go is for the one with the caption that says "Mara is affected by coomb spores...". Not only does the pic have nothing to do with the caption, but we have tons of pics just like it. - Angel Blue 451 17:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well my image of her with Jaina is gone which i thought was rather significant personally...Jedi Dude 17:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The fan art pic? -- Ozzel 17:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Its fanart? O i thought it was from a cover from the earlier books sorry! Jedi Dude 17:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This one? The Mara is from a real cover, but the rest is all fake. -- Ozzel 18:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, some of the pics are improperly labeled. For example, there was a picture of Mara that was clearly from the NJO era that was labeled as being from the Swarm War (I don't think we even have any post-NJO images of Mara yet). Don't know if that's still the case, but the captions should definitely be double-checked. - Breathesgelatin 19:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Talents? Personality?
Shoud Mara get one? Jedi Dude 17:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes Mara should get one. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) [[Image:Jainasolosig.gif |25px]] 21:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Voice
Despite her being a huge figure in the EU, a lot of people have never heard her voice. A sound file, like this guy has, would be enlightening. -LtNOWIS 20:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The Daxar Ies info
I removed the following passage, because i think the Gorog Nest became the Dark Nest when Lomi Plo, Welk and Raynar Thul arrived there. But the daughter and wife of Daxar had something to do with revenge on Mara, but I can't remember. Can anyone help with this:

''The Gorog wanted Mara dead, because the Gorog Nest became the Dark Nest when the wife and daughter of Daxar Ies traveled to the Unknown Regions after Daxar's death. They became Gorog Joiners and the idea of revenge against Mara created the Dark Nest.''

--Azizlight 01:40, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just flipping through Unseen Queen. Raynar actually told Han, Leia and Mara that the Ies women became Joiners and created the Dark Nest. But he was lying, or at least, that was what he believed himself. --Azizlight 02:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Main Image
Should Mara's main image be changed to reflect her most recent appearance because the current one shows Mara during her time as a Hand. Jaina Solo ( Goddess Stuff ) 01:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's the best quality shot of her actress as Mara Jade. So, in this case, no. -- Redemption Talk [[Image:Oldrepublic.jpg|15px]] 01:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

What about this one:

That one is even better in my mind. --Bender235 13:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm all for sticking with a photograph. For what it's worth. HavetStorm 15:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm for any image that is not based on Shannon McRandle. I know that she was the official model for Mara for a while, but she does not actually fit Mara's discription. Mara Jade had red-gold hair, not auburn. That has always bugged me&hellip; – 19:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * That just seems like a question of 'light red' vs 'dark red' to me -like it was up to the individual author to use whatever descriptive term they wanted (not to mention that Mara could have died her hair 'off-screen'). We could always 'tweak' it with Photoshop, though.Tocneppil 21:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Factual correction Apprentice Quote
Just would like to point out something. Mara's quote under Apprenticeship. It's actually from I Jedi. Page 284 lines 9 and 10. They were actually said to Corran Horn after his confrontation with Exar Kun's ghost on Yavin IV during his training at the academy.
 * Thank you very much! Good catch. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Audience Chamber ) 04:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Expansion areas
Looks like this article could use more details in places. A couple sentences about what she did in these works would really help fill out the article.


 * Short stories:
 * Sleight of Hand: The Tale of Mara Jade
 * Mara Jade: A Night on the Town
 * Handoff
 * First Contact
 * Jade Solitaire


 * Children of the Jedi
 * Darksaber
 * The New Rebellion


 * Ambush at Corellia
 * Assault at Selonia
 * Showdown at Centerpoint


 * Specter of the Past
 * Vision of the Future

Earlier, I added a bit about her running a trading business from Ambush at Corellia and all. I'll see what I can add from Jade Solitaire. Thanks for any help. -Fnlayson 02:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Name
Star Wars: Allegiance apparently reveals Mara's full name: Mara Jade Claria, as found in the Publisher's Weekly review here. She's also royalty, apparently... - \\Captain Kwenn// &mdash; Ahoy! 19:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't it possible, however, that this information is a false tease? I'm not totally sure it should be in the intro yet.  - breathesgelatin Talk 09:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Technically a "Countess" is nobility, not royalty. ;) QuentinGeorge 09:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Won't this be a spoiler until after the book is published, reguardless, I don't think we can say it's her canon name untill we know for sure. It could simply be an alias that she uses for some time. HavetStorm 17:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. It's actually a spoiler until a month after the book is released. -Fnlayson 18:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't By the Emperor's Hand have her set up with an alias in the Imperial court? this could be an expansion of that.Tocneppil 01:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I think we should have Mara's maiden name included in the entry title. Jedi Wolf 7:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

"Countess"

 * Publisher Reviews have been wildly inaccurate before. Hence, to be safe, every reference to "Countess Mara Jade Claria should be removed until Allegiance is released. QuentinGeorge 00:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Should the mention of her being a Countess be removed too or is that covered in By the Emperor's Hand?  - Fnlayson 02:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed Countess from the first sentence (Intro). -Fnlayson 04:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Her appearance in the Imperial Court was part of her cover, so it was probably an alias. Something to the effect of her being 'arm candy' for the Emperor to tote around, yet with a comprehensive enough background that could fool Ysanne Isard's security checks. I can't recall the name, though.Tocneppil 23:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Yea acting as a countess is not the same as being one.  We'll find out for sure when Allegiance comes out in a few weeks. - Fnlayson 03:02, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Now that Allegiance is out, would anyone be able to confirm whether this is Mara's real name and title? (in an extract on the official website, Mara is addressed as Countess Claria, though this may have been a cover name). - N ighthawk L eader    05:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh yea, Countess Claria is described as an alias in the Allegiance article. -Fnlayson 06:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Name pronunciation
How are we suppose to pronounce it? Something like "Jade" (like in "are"), "Jade" (like in "male"), or "Djaddé" (like in "Padmé") ? Thanks for answering. Klow 13:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Um... It's pronounced the same as it's spelt... Mar-uh Jade... HavetStorm 19:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Padmé has an accent mark, Mara Jade does not. Should be a good hint they are pronounced differently. --OuroborosCobra 20:00, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your answers, but I'm French speaking, so if you could be more precise... So it's like in "male"?... Klow 07:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's pronounced exactly as the mineral Jade. To rhyme with "lemonade", or "live aid" or "get paid". QuentinGeorge 07:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Her last name is pronounced like the precious stone jade, which also rhymes with the English words "made," "stayed," and "raid." (Edit conflicts! Always the edit conflicts! ;-) ) jSarek 07:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, my appologies for the sarcasm then. HavetStorm 19:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks thanks thanks! Your examples were damn useful. It's crystal clear, now. ;-) (although I really liked "Djaddé") Klow 07:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Criticism section
I tend to think there's probably more people who criticize Mara for allegedly having "Mary Sue" traits than for her portrayal supposedly being sexist. At least, that's what I saw back when I spent more time on Star Wars message boards and such. Red XIV 07:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Cover Picture of Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice
Ever noticed that Mara is supposed to be about 58 years old on that Picture? But she actually looks more like being about 30 years old... I know that Jedis are supposed to live longer than normal beings of their species, but this is quite strange...


 * There must be some force power that causes you to look younger.Ultimate Mandalore 00:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No it is a clear mistake on all of the Legacy books. Just look at Luke on the covers of Vector Prime and later in Inferno, if it is some Jedi power it should be mentioned in the books as to when they used it. Actually it is a book problem as Han also de-ages look at Dark Nest I: The Joiner King and Exile. Chris 04:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

last name?
was Jade Mara's last name before she got married? Anzati02 19:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Its what she went by, but as she knows nothing about her family history her 'real' name could be anything. At this point in her life its become irrelavent though.--Master Shan 15:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Mara Jade = Mary Jane?
Does anyone notice the resemblance between Mara Jade and Mary Jane from Spiderman in name and appearance? Could make something for the trivia section.
 * That's pure speculation unless there's some source to back it up, like an interview with Zahn or a LucasFilm person. -Fnlayson 02:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, in a Star Wars Insider interview (number 47, I think), Zahn says the name comes from the Hebrew name Mara (which means "bitter") and the word jade, in the sense of a jaded individual. So the similarity is coincidence. jSarek 06:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Images
Far too many. And, like our other articles, a head and shoulders shot should be in the infobox, not that full stance. QuentinGeorge 06:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't there once a criticism section?
And shouldn't it be there? It's not like the character is universally loved. I can think of at least two major criticisms that are constantly brought up: A. That she suffers from Mary Sue-ism, and B. That she's way too Dark Side to be Mrs. Skywalker. I'd put one back in, but I'd like to know why it was removed first so as to avoid unnecessary edit-wars and controversey. Chrisstansfield 23:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for bringing it to the talk page first. The Inquisitorius had them removed when they reviewed her article. IIRC, the criticism section is POV, and without some serious sourcing and patrolling, it's also a target for people to come and add their slant on things, which is great on a board at TF.N, but really bad here. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 14:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I'm new to the Wookiepedia somewhat. On the subject of criticism, has there been any verifiable fan reaction to the events of Sacrifice that can be inserted into the article? Thanks... LordNyax113, 2:30 P.M., July 07.
 * In general, we try to avoid such sections on fan opinions wherever possible, because they don't pertain to the character and somewhat broach WP:NPA. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 05:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Should MAJOR spoilers be listed in the intro paragraph?
So I'm cruising through, catching up on the stories of major characters during time period of some of the books that I skipped. I try to be careful to stop reading when I get up to where I am at in the books. This practice is useless, however when major spoilers are released in the intro paragragh such as in the case of Mara Jade. Come on, the book was just released a few weeks ago, its not this is common knowledge.

I propose removing spoiler info from the intro paragraph and instead placing it in the body in the proper time period so that people like me can stop reading when they come to a time period that they don't want to know about.

Agree or disagree?

-TJ
 * The big black banner at the top is supposed to warn off spoiler-adverse people. There's a reason it says "major spoilers". QuentinGeorge 07:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That is completely besides the point that I am trying to make. I knew there were spoilers contained within the article, however my point is that they should be placed in the appopriate place so that someone can view a page and still avoid spoilers.  To list a major new revealation about a character in the intro paragraph seems ill advised to me.  You can still have the info in the body of work, however it should be in with the other legacy information so someone can still lookup information about a character without being told right up front whats just happened to her in a book just released. -TJ


 * I'd say the spoiler in question need not be there, for example it doesn't say that Darth Vader killed Obi-Wan on Obi-Wan's intro paragraph
 * Spoilers may be present in intros, especially on FAs. If the Inqs. say an article needs to have that info in the intro, that's what will happen. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 04:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Quality wise, I'd say the spoiler in question is NEEDED, and that's why article spoiler banners exist. I hadn't read the book either and was quite shocked to see it, but from a quality perspective, omission would make the intro incomplete. --206.75.46.254 17:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Do we know that Jacen killed Mara? In the page on Inferno, it states that the starwars.com synopsis says that Mara lies dead at the hands of an unknown assassin.  This implies that in Sacrifice, Jacen was not revealed to be the assassin (I don't know myself - not having read any of the NJO books)  But this does appear to be a conflict - somewhere.. -Jim 216.9.143.185
 * No, it was Jacen. However, Luke and the galaxy at large, doesn't know the identity of Mara's killer, hence the term "unknown assassin." Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.jpg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 20:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure we know. Except for Jacen, they don't know in-universe yet.  -Fnlayson 20:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)