Talk:Palpatine/Archive3

Merge
Merged it with Darth Sidious, finally. I haven't yet redirected Darth Sidious here and left it as it was, just in case. Removed doom, but added attention, because I believe the article is still quite raw - more info should be added to the Imperial section, and something should be said about the post-Endor era, if only two words. The previous debate related to the merge and the styles of address duscussion was moved to Talk:Palpatine/Archive. - Sikon 08:44, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)

DOB
Where is it revealed that Palpatine was born in 84 BBY? - Sikon 14:20, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The Star Wars Timeline Gold puts his birth at 82 BBY, based on conjecture from the Episode I: Insider's Guide--Eion 15:25, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The guides to Episode I have him as 52 during TPM. 59.167.63.94 06:18, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * So is it 84 BBY or 82 BBY? Becuase right now, he's listed as being born in both years.-LtNOWIS 20:31, 8 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * It's 84. QuentinGeorge 05:59, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Dates
I had a reason to extend the "Secret de facto leader of the Separatists" period to 32 BBY. Although the Separatist movement itself was not present at this point, he was the secret shadowy manipulator behind the Trade Federation - one of the main members of the later CIS. - Sikon 03:15, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Trade Federation does not = CIS. If you mean "Shadowy Manipulator behind the Trade Federation" than state that explicitly. The two are NOT equivalent - the Trade Federation and Commerce Guild were often in conflict against each other prior to the Clone Wars.
 * Plus, for the record, Sidious' influence in the Trade Federation extends long before the 32 BBY, so what you had was not strictly correct anyway. QuentinGeorge 06:04, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Secret leader?
The succession box for "Secret de facto leader of the Separatists" is useless as it doesn't point to anyone else. --SparqMan 13:17, 20 Jul 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
Clearly, Palpatine is the central villain of the Star Wars saga. It is understandable to use some terms, but "maniacal monstronsity" and its ilk are beyond the pall of NPOV. If you have the chance, try to clean those up here and there. --SparqMan 19:36, 22 Jul 2005 (UTC)

84 BBY birthdate
The 84 BBY birthdate must be changed. We have no info on Palpy's age. He could be older than Yoda as far as we know. The 84 BBY birthdate simply isn't canon. (Unsigned comment by User:Starkeiller)
 * We do. See the DOB section above. He cannot be older than Yoda anyway, Lucasfilms stated that he's no older than McDiarmid by the time of the prequels. - Sikon 15:48, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)

The Episode I Guide was referring to Senator Palpatine, the good man the Galaxy knew, not Darth Sidious, the Sith Lord behind the mask. The Galaxy thought he was 52 at the time, but in Ep. III, the mask fell and Sidious' true face was revealed. The 84 BBY birthdate was part of that mask. (Unsigned comment by User:Starkeiller)
 * First of all, please remember to sign your comments (see your talk page for more information). Also, please remember to indent your posts on Talk pages by placing asterisks in front of them. Thank you. As for the "Sith Lord behind his face" issue, apart from the fact that the "true face" theory is debatable POV and the guide is an official source, the fact that Palpatine and Darth Sidious are the same person was never meant to be hidden. Therefore, Darth Sidious, with his real name being Palpatine, was born on Naboo in 84 BBY. - Sikon 16:12, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * The Episode I Guide does not reveal that Palpatine is Sidious. So the Guide is talking about the guise.--Starkeiller 16:17, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should just leave it until someone else clears this up with a better source. -- Riffsyphon1024 16:34, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)
 * Uhm... whatever; the Palpatine-Sidious thing was supposed to be obvious after Episode I, and the editors of the Guide were aware of that. As long as the theory that "Palpatine is a mask" remains speculation and we have two canonical pieces of information: a) Palpatine and Darth Sidious are the same person and b) Palpatine was born in 84 BBY, it is assumed that c) Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, was born in 84 BBY. It seems to be a logical choice. Any other choice would mean valuing speculation over facts, which is unacceptable in an encyclopedia. If you do not believe that any information regarding Palpatine's image is factual, at least it can be stated somehow in the article that 84 BBY refers to this image, rather than completely omitting the date. It would cause nothing but more misunderstanding and speculation. - Sikon 16:37, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)

--Starkeiller 16:48, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)Then we'll have it as a possible date of birth, as a conjecture. Everyone would be happy that way until we have the canonical date of birth for Sidious, be ot 84 BBY or whatever BBY.
 * It's not conjecture&mdash;it's logic. To say otherwise is conjecture. – Aidje talk 16:53, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)