Talk:Midi-chlorian/Archive1

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midi-chlorian removal
I am wondering about what might happen if MC's were removed form a host. Qui-Gonn says all living things have them and could not live without them. So if a technique or procedure occured to kinda suck dry a being of all the MC's, what might the reaction be. I have yet to encounter any canon source that touches on that idea, but I've not read everything out there. Does anyone know if such a topic has ever be even discussed before? Medleystudios72 07:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Common Sense and knowledge of what midichlorians are dictate that at the very least, removing midichlorians from a sentients body would cut them off from the force permanently, which in my opinion would be akin to being a breathing corpse. Most likely it would kill them, since life in the galaxy is given by the force. To my knowledge, the Vong are the only creatures that should not have midichlorians. 72.235.131.7 01:01, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

inherent contradiction
In the original movie Obi-Wan says that the Force is an energy field generated by all the living things. In the fourth movie, Episode I, we are told that midi-chlorians comes from the Force, communicate the Force, and are neccessary for Life. 71.138.190.43 00:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Your point being?--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 14:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Force is like light. the Midi-chlorians are like eyes. --86.135.179.78 17:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If we're going to talk about contradictions, Look at "your father's lightsaber" in Episode IV. Now how would Obi-Wan ever get that? I thought it fell in the lava at Mustafar and he never picks it up. Star Wars is full of contradictions because of the length of time between trilogies and the thousands of "established" facts. Besides, midi-chlorians seem like a throw away line. They aren't in any of the other episodes.
 * Obi-wan did pick up Anakins lightsaber. you can see him bend over and pick it up after the fight. 151.203.164.221 02:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, midi-chlorians are mentioned in Episode III too. Light or not, the force is an energy, the midi-chlorians provide insight into the force.

Qui-Gon is a hippy
Doesn't Dark Apprentice explain that Qui-Gon was a champion of using midi-chlorians, while few other Jedi believed their usefulness? I might be confusing it with some other source. --SparqMan 04:02, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Qui-Gon is such a hippy. Lonnyd 07:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Non-organics
It doesn't seem contradictory to midi-chlorians at all, to me. Qui-Gon explains that we perceive the Force thanks to the midi-chlorians, not that they generate the Force. Suggesting that non-organics should logically need midi-chlorians is like suggesting that bright objects should need eyes, is it not? --Fade 11:24, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Good job clearing the confusion. – Aidje talk 01:11, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Organs?
I don't think that midichlorians should be compared to sensory organs. Instead of light and sound example, I'd prefer to compare to how a person 'feels' temperature or other conditions. Of course skin is an organ by itself, but I'd like to give a more abstract sense. 62.74.4.179 13:58, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but it pretty much says the same thing. That and the light comparison sets up a nice clear comparison with Force objects. Replace sound if need be, but keep the light one there. --Fade 14:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Saying that midi-chlorians are like eyes is inherently inaccurate; eyes are a wholly dependent organ of a complete being's body whereas midi-chlorians are described as microscopic organisms that live inside of the body. The relationship between Force-sensitive individuals is in reality symbiotic, and therefore nothing like the relationship between people and their eyes.  Midi-chlorians are closer to lice than they are to eyes.  Also, the development of midi-chlorians within the body isn't defined in any biological process and cannot be blanketed as just like the development of eyes. Also, people are aware of their eyes without outside instruction; midi-chlorians are complex and their existence is only learned of through either tutelage or some personal experience.  Eyes are nothing at all like midi-chlorians.

A philosophical evolution?
What about the notion that the philosophy about the nature of the Force evolved over time? In the time of Episode I, the midi-chlorian approach to understanding the Force is what is presented in the movies--a "hard science" approach. Yet in Episode V, Yoda distances himself from this view of the Force, as does Obi-Wan to Luke on Tatooine in Episode IV: "it an energy field," "luminous beings are we," etc. Could it be that, through their meditation in exile, Obi-Wan and Yoda come to have a more metaphysical understanding of the Force? Could it be that the way the Jedi (mis)viewed the Force in Episodes I, II, and III was in part misguided? Does the EU touch on this philosophical evolution? Ulic 05:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Why can't people accept that it's merely two ways of looking at the same thing? Nothing Yoda says in Episode V contradicts Jinn's statement in Episode I, and vice versa. QuentinGeorge 05:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well actually that's kind of my point: aren't these two different ways perhaps an evolution, i.e. they are complementary and not mutually exclusive? If you look at the history of any philosophy (be it a religion, a school of thought, etc.), there have historically been differents approaches that emphasize different things. For instance, the distinction between Sunni and Shiite Islam, Protestantism and Catholicism, etc. The midi-chlorian-counting approach used by Qui-Gon in Episode I is one approach that emphasizes a certain empiricism. The metaphysical approach used by Yoda in Episode V is another approach that emphasizes something much more akin to qi. Perhaps there is a yin-yang-like interplay between these two approaches, etc. Consider also that, while in Exile, Yoda and Obi-Wan have time on their hands and access to Qui-Gon to contemplate the nature(s) of the Force, perhaps also to reflect on errors or shortcomings of the Jedi past that allowed the Sith to reemerge. It's unreasonable to think that Yoda and Obi-Wan would spend their exiles not doing precisely that. I'm curious if anyone has any clues from the EU that might point to some kind of process of evolution or philosophical development along these lines. (Incidentally, I'm not at all anti-midi-chlorian--I'm comfortable with accepting it as a part of George Lucas's conception of the Star Wars universe. I'm just very interested in how the EU does or does not look at the issue in a saga-wide way. It's obviously an issue ripe for exploration.) Ulic 17:25, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

If midi-chlorians are symbiots perhaps they evolved seperatly.

 * I remember learning in Biology that there is a theory stating that a mitochondria was eaten by a single celled organisms and from then on most multi-celled organisms have mitochondria because they can produce vast amounts of energy.--Dumac 23:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Anyways, I was thinking perhaps the same thing happened with midi-clorians. Not only can it make sense but the prefixs midi and mito sound alike.--Dumac 23:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Or if the force is indeed intelligent perhaps it created the midi-clorians in cell's--Dumac 23:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Vader and Lumiya's decreased midi-chlorian count
I might be wrong, but wasn't there some mention (in some interview with Lucas) that Anakin became less powerful as Darth Vader due to the loss of so many midi-chlorians? Thus Palpatine wanted Luke and so on. Also Lumiya seems to mention this in Betrayal, that she is much less powerful as a cyborg.

So, could someone with a firmer grasp on this add it to the article?

Greedo 06:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it was caused by blood loss or replacing so many cells with machine parts.--The All-knowing Sith&#39;ari 14:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe that was right. For example, Vader couldn't use lightning because he did not have real hands.--Shadowphobia 21:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Vader couldn't use lightning because it would kill him. The suit would malfunction with electricity flowing through it.--Shadowphobia 21:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think that Vader's midi-chlorian count decreased after Mustafar. Midi-chlorians are in the cells, I think. The reason why Palpatine wanted a new apprentice is not because Vader became useless, but because Vader will no longer fulfill his previous potential. Vader remained powerful even though he became half-droid but Palpatine wanted a "perfect apprentice" and he found that in Vader's own son, Luke, who has (according to George Lucas) the same force potential Anakin had. Questorminator 04:26, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Midichlorian Count List for the major Star Wars characters
According the site http://www.jedipurge.com, the Midichlorian count list in the Star Wars characters is: User_talk:Starkiller1996
 * Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
 * Luke Skywalker = 27,700
 * Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500
 * Yoda = 17,700
 * Darth Revan = 16,200 (Knights of the Old Republic video game)
 * Leia Organa Solo = 14,500
 * Aenon Jurtis (Most powerful Jedi Master prior to Yoda) = 14,200
 * Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 13,900
 * Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 13,700
 * Ben (Jhon) Skywalker = 13,700
 * Anakin Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 13,700
 * Darth Plagueis (Darth Sidious' master) = 13,600
 * Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500
 * Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400
 * Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250
 * Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic video game) = 12,800
 * Kyle Katarn = 12,200
 * Mace Windu = 12,000
 * Darth Maul = 12,000
 * General Grievous (New Episode 3 Villain) = 11,900
 * Kit Fisto = 11,800
 * Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War) = 11,700
 * Shindor = 11,500 (Dark Jedi from Episode 7)
 * Yaddle = 11,300
 * Xanatos' (Qui-Gon Jinn's former apprentice) = 11,300
 * Darth Seer (Founder of the modern Sith Order) = 11,200
 * Plo Koon = 11,100
 * Mara Jade = 11,000
 * Jedi Master Corran Horn (from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700
 * Ki Adi Mundu = 10,600
 * Darth Bane = 10,500
 * Nebar Foxis (Jedi Knight played by SuperShadow in Episode 3) = 10,400
 * Joruus C'baoth = 10,350
 * Darth Imperius = 10,300
 * Shaak Ti = 10,300
 * Tahari Vehlia (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,300
 * Echuu-Shen Jon = 10,200
 * Jedi Master Kam Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,100
 * Aalya Secura = 10,000
 * Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000
 * Average Jedi = 10,000
 * Assajj Ventress = 9,600
 * Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400
 * Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300
 * Jacen Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
 * Jaina Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
 * Jedi Master Cihgal (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
 * Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000
 * Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 8,500
 * Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi) = 8,400
 * Xio Jade = 7,400
 * Chewbacca = 7,200
 * Tylus Liv = 7,100
 * Aurra Sing = 7,000
 * Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi = 7,000
 * Padme Amidala = 4,700
 * Lodon Skywalker = 4,500
 * Danni Quee (New Jedi Order Jedi Scientist)= 4,500
 * Beru Lars = 3,700
 * Shmi = 3,300
 * Lando Calrissian = 3,300
 * Boba Fett= 1,500
 * Han Solo = 1,500
 * Jango Fett = 1,500
 * Owen Lars = 1,500
 * --Sigh---. SuperShadow is 100% fake. QuentinGeorge 06:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

-I think this is all ridiculous, what has Star Wars turned into? Dragon Ball Z, where everyone is ranked by power levels? So silly.
 * They aren't really. This is SuperShadow fanon. And as far as I know Midi-chlorian count isn't directly related to how powerful a being is.-- Lord Oblivion Sith holocronSith_Emblem.svg 20:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Theres a few prblems on that list:
 * 1) What is Sidious count without the crystal (since it's not part of him)?
 * 2) Vader had organs & body parts replaced with cybernetics which means he has less cells thos less midi-clorins (force power). thus Vaders & Anakins should be differant.
 * 3) Grivous was not force sensitive as it states on his and Dooku's pages, ect - Awar 06:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC).
 * There are some other problems with this list:
 * 1) There is no way Kyle Katarn is more powerful than Exar Kun, Revan, etc.
 * 2) Anakin Solo's count should be the same as the other Solo children's counts.
 * 3) Luke and Leia's counts should be the same.
 * 4) In Kotor it's clear Revan is more powerful than Malak.

A question about Midi-chlorian count. Are we sure that refers to a total amount of MC's in a host body or a concentration per cell? If it refers to the concentration, would that not make the loss of tissue no longer a determining factor in a decrease in sensitivity/ability? Sure, Vader couldn't use lightning because his hands were cybernetic, but I took that to mean he needed a biological component to his limbs as conduit, not necessarily generation. He still was so very extremely powerful after being imolated. Medleystudios72 07:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Most likely it means concentration. As in, when you measure your white blood cell count, there should be 4500-10,000 per microliter, so it's per something, whether cell or a specific volume. Since Qui-Gon measures Anakin with a simple blood test, I'm gonna say per a volume unit. So, since episode 1 Anakin has had several body parts replaced artificially, then theoretically there would be less blood in his system in the original trilogy and thus fewer midichlorians overall. His suit is probably why he never did anything more than force choke, since lightning would fry it. Episode VI proves this, since he knows he'll die ("nothing can stop that now") from the few seconds of lightning the Emperor hit him with as opposed to Luke walking away from a sustained attack. His wounds on Mustafar were so grave that he needed the suit for life support. Also that list is complete BS, SuperShadow is well-known for making things up. 24.255.144.188 09:58, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Skippy the Jedi Droid
...says that Skippy's oil was "rife with Midi-Chloroxians". Should that go under "Appearances"? I'm not sure how to qualify it. 68.44.13.236 03:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

A Wind in the Door
Madeleine L'Engle's novel, A Wind in the Door (1973) features a race of beings known as Farandolae that live inside mitochondria and seem to have a very powerful connection with the universe, in much the same way that the midi-chlorians do. Could this possibly have inspired the midi-chlorians?

Research
Souldnt something be mentioned about ko sai in true colours researching midiclorians from the baby

Detector paragraph
"The Force Detector was one of the tools developed to measure midi-chlorian counts ...the control pack would read out a list of statistics, including midi-chlorian count...though this correlated to Force-sensitivity, it was not a direct measurement of the subject's midi-chlorian concentration." (emphasis mine) That seems a little contradictory, is that how the article originally described it? As giving an MC count, but also stating it didn't directly measure it? Dangerdan97 15:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

So, wait...
Beginning of the article: "When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force. "

"A misconception exists that rather than being indicators, midi-chlorians actually are the Force or create it; there is no canonical basis for this belief"

So wait, are they "just indicators", or do they they "allow" access to the Force? Can both these things be true?
 * It doesn't say they're "just" indicators. They allow access, and can be used as indicators. - Lord Hydronium 04:25, March 22, 2010 (UTC)