Forum:CT Archive/Official Wookieepedia Skin: Monobook

So, now that we've had some time to get used to hating the new skin, I have a proposal.

We can't set our skin default to anything other than the Wikiabomination, the insult to the Gallagher family (and I don't even like Oasis), the "new look" (said with the same degree of respect as the phrase "new Coke"). But as far as I can tell, there's no rule saying we can't make Monobook the official recommendation of the Wookieepedia community. And if there is one I didn't find, fuck 'em. Wikia brought rebellion upon themselves.

I propose the following:


 * 1) To the layout guide under the images heading, add the bullet point:
 * 2) *The formatting of a page under any skin other than Monobook is not a concern in the placement of images and may not be objected to on article status nominations.
 * 3) To the W template add the sentence:
 * 4) *For an optimal viewing experience, Wookieepedia recommends using the Monobook skin. For help changing your skin preferences, see Help:Skin.
 * 5) Placing similar recommendations on any appropriate help or policy page, as discussed below.
 * 6) Add a disclaimer on the main page to match item 2. (Item added 11/15/10 for separate vote.)
 * 7) Add a notice visible only on the new skin to match item 2. The implementation of this will be based on technical feasibility once the community approves the concept. (Item added 11/15/10 for separate vote.)

Any further ideas for eschewing the "new look" are welcome. -- Darth Culator  (Talk) 19:35, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Adopt

 * Darth Culator (Talk) 19:35, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  OLIOSTER  (talk) 19:37, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) 1358  (Talk) 19:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 *  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 19:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:48, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 *  Master Jonathan New Jedi Order.svg ( Jedi Council Chambers ) 19:58, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:05, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 20:05, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 20:18, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 20:27, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Xicer9 atgar.svg( Combadge) 20:38, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Could not agree more strongly.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:04, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Go consensus! NAYA   YEN   10:19, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 17:08, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * To counter JSarek's objection, we could just state on the main page or in the sitenotice (or by any other means) that the site is best viewed in the MonoBook skin, and that an account is required to view this. Tell 'em it's free and easy to make. If they really care about viewing the site, they'll make an account. MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg(Whatever) 17:30, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  QuiGonJinn  Senate seal.svg(Talk) 21:21, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 *  CC7567  (talk) 07:12, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  DarthRage Leave a message after the beep
 * 2) Frankly I preferred Monaco, but with its removal, this is the best alternative. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:32, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  Darth Karika  will destroy your planet! 16:48, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) This is my way at getting back at Sony for the NGE... a wholly inappropriate way.  DD97 Which bear is best? 22:06, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5)  JangFett  (Talk) 05:26, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) They're going to keep coming up with new models and screwing things up for us over and over and over again ad nauseam. We should remain solid, not spending time and energy changing things to make it look good with their endless progression of revamps until they take Monobook away and we are out of options. Until then it's just as simple to inform our audience. Graestan ( Talk ) 06:16, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) I was undecided until reading Graestan's comment. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 10:42, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)  Holocron Greatholocron.jpg (Complain) 06:01, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) It's just not worth trying to scramble to adapt to Wikia's latest mess. We can make tweaks if we like, but the fact that Wikia's inflicted a shitty default skin on us should not be determinative of what we're allowed to do. Havac 09:54, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10) Objecting that images are placed weird, by and large, is a silly objection anyway because it's heavily contingent on monitor resolution as well as the skin. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 17:30, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Do not adopt

 * 1) We need to make at least some effort to be appealing to unregistered users, or else they'll never be given reason to register and see how much better we are when a decent skin is in use. jSarek 02:18, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) While I hate the new skin and use Monobook myself, I think it would be unwise to completely disregard those who view this site as a quick reading material and source of quick background information. If we can find a way to at least make the Wikia standard layout look decent I say we should take the extra time and do it.  Agent Cards <> 10:26, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) *The problem here is that the image placement depends on content area width, which we are not allowed to adjust. We might be able to make the overall look decent, but expanding content width is a no-no according to Wikia's terms of use. 1358  (Talk) 13:20, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) **And all who has screen small enough faces the same thing with Monobook too, so pointing fingers at the new skin only isn't all-saving. But yes the new skin forces all anons to have narrow content space, which makes it valid point to be taken into account, if not highly weighted. –Tm_T (Talk) 13:36, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) I agree 100% with the proposal in principle, but we do need to be cognizant of anon or new users who haven't switched. Right now it reads that we're just not going to care at all, instead of simply optimizing for Monobook. This also precludes any other changes that Wikia might make, such as adding a new skin that is actually decent. Also, keep the wikilawyering elsewhere. That's why we have a discussion area. &mdash; Fiolli  14:31, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) After rethinking this, jSarek, Agent Cards, and Fiolli have a valid point that can't be overlooked. We do need to consider the casual reader who, without an account, doesn't have the option to use Monobook.  Master Jonathan New Jedi Order.svg ( Jedi Council Chambers ) 16:47, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Jinzler 17:12, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8) I have been convinced that it's worth the time and effort to make this site look good in both skins. It may make things a little more difficult, but we can blame Wikia for that. MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg(Whatever) 17:21, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) I have to side with the noobs here. There are MANY more people that visit Wookieepedia instead of edit it. I leave this to the majority of actual readers, not us few editors. I will say however that the Wikia skin is a piece of shit. :) --  Riffsyphon  1024 08:21, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10) Per my points of not supporting just certain screen (and/or content view) sizes without proper and thorough community discussion, and all above, we ought to do our best with what we got. (: –Tm_T (Talk) 18:42, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11) We're here to cater for readers, not just ourselves. To me, "not a concern" just sounds too much like "we don't care what you think." Ironically, that's what Wikia says to its users. :P SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 07:33, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 12) Wookieepedia's audience isn't just other editors. &mdash;Silly Dan (talk) 12:37, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13) When it gets right down to it, utilizing item 1 would essentially be blackmailing people onto Monobook. We should be able to persuade people to switch to it anyway. Plus, this avoids the trolls (unregistered or otherwise) from saying "OMGGG WAI DOSENT IT LOOK RITE!!!11!! YOUR SUCH ASSES!!! I HATE WIKIA LOOOOL" because they will never be able to see that box in the corner saying "Switch to Monobook to view the wiki properly". NAYA   YEN   13:20, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 14) Having thought long and hard about this point, I have to agree. -  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 13:27, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15)  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:32, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 16) We do what we do for everyone, not for just ourselves. Menkooroo 06:11, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17) I've been swayed. Yes, Wikia will keep coming up with new, dumb ideas, and we can hate these ideas, but we can't act like they don't exist. Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 07:31, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Adopt

 * Darth Culator (Talk) 19:35, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  OLIOSTER  (talk) 19:37, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) 1358  (Talk) 19:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 19:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:48, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Though I should note that Step 3 on Help:Skin needs to be updated, as skin choices are now on the user profile tab under that avatar section instead of on their own skin tab in preferences. And don't forget MediaWiki:Welcome-message-user also; the last five edits to W haven't been put on MediaWiki:Welcome-message-user.  Master Jonathan New Jedi Order.svg ( Jedi Council Chambers ) 19:58, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:05, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 20:05, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8) Darth Trayus ( Trayus Academy ) 20:18, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 20:27, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10) Xicer9 atgar.svg( Combadge) 20:38, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11) Wikia has negative common sense.  Chack Jadson  (Talk) 21:04, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 12) Absolutely. jSarek 02:18, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13) —Xwing328 (Talk) 04:34, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 14) NAYA   YEN   10:19, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 17:08, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 16) –Tm_T (Talk) 17:16, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17)  MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg(Whatever) 17:30, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 18) Put it in BOLD. QuiGonJinn  Senate seal.svg(Talk) 21:21, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 *  CC7567  (talk) 07:12, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  Agent Cards <> 10:26, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Absolutely! &mdash; Fiolli  14:31, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  DarthRage Leave a message after the beep
 * 4) Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith  -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:32, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) Harrumph!  DD97 Which bear is best? 22:07, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6)  JangFett  (Talk) 05:26, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Graestan ( Talk ) 06:16, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8) Well, duh! --  Riffsyphon  1024 08:21, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 10:42, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10) --Loneshark1138 Incom.svg (Talk) 13:17, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11) SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 07:33, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 12) Why make it a mere suggestion? Like using one's turn signal, Monobook should be required by law.   Trak Nar  Ramble on 07:39, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13)  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 13:32, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 14) * Xicer9 atgar.svg( Combadge) 14:58, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15)  Holocron Greatholocron.jpg <font color="#208090">(Complain) 06:01, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 16) I see this is a critical vote. Havac 09:54, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17) Wikia keeps coming up with crappy skin ideas and implementing them, so here's a massive "screw you" right back. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 17:30, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Adopt

 * Darth Culator (Talk) 14:54, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) <font face="Verdana">NAYA   <font face="Verdana">YEN   16:08, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) 1358  (Talk) 16:46, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) I don't have a problem with a Main Page disclaimer saying that the site has been optimized for Monobook, using what we have in item 2. &mdash; Fiolli  16:58, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)  Master Jonathan New Jedi Order.svg ( Jedi Council Chambers ) 03:39, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) jSarek 03:55, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6)  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 04:22, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg<sup style="color:green">(Whatever) 04:54, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 *  CC7567  (talk) 06:16, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:18, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Xicer9 atgar.svg( Combadge) 15:29, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) As long as it's not distruptive. –Tm_T (Talk) 16:56, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:27, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 03:24, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 16:18, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Havac 09:54, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)  QuiGonJinn  Senate seal.svg(Talk) 15:08, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) <font color="#208090"> Holocron Greatholocron.jpg <font color="#208090">(Complain) 04:44, November 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10)  DarthRage Leave a message after the beep17:40, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11) Providing it's done in the form of "This website is best viewed in [browser]/[resolution]/[skin]". --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:56, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 12) Per INAN. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 17:31, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Adopt

 * Darth Culator (Talk) 14:54, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) This is probably more important than the main page one as most views will likely come from people googling the subject matter and having us come up as the first hit so that they go straight to the article. <font face="Verdana">NAYA   <font face="Verdana">YEN   16:08, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) 1358  (Talk) 16:46, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Per Nayayen.  Master Jonathan New Jedi Order.svg ( Jedi Council Chambers ) 03:40, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, seriously, we're not kidding. You're not viewing properly. Sign in, change skin, or miss out. jSarek 03:55, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  JMAS  Jolly Trooper.png Hey, it's me! 04:22, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) MasterFred Commerce Guild.svg<sup style="color:green">(Whatever) 04:52, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 *  CC7567  (talk) 06:16, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Xicer9 atgar.svg( Combadge) 14:58, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Jonjedigrandmaster  ( Talk ) 15:18, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:27, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) <font color="#208090"> Holocron Greatholocron.jpg <font color="#208090">(Complain) 06:01, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) As long as it isn't so prominent that it damages the experience of people who consciously choose to use the new skin. SoresuMakashi ( Everything I tell you is a lie  the truth  ) 03:26, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) They deserve to know that they're missing out. Havac 09:54, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7)  QuiGonJinn  Senate seal.svg(Talk) 15:09, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)  DD97 Which bear is best? 22:47, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9) Wikia keeps coming up with crappy skin ideas and implementing them, so here's a massive "screw you" right back. We should be able to point users to the best viewing experience and if they're hopping over on a Google search or whatever, they're not necessarily going to hit the main page. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 17:32, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Do not adopt

 * 1) I absolutely do not like this, however. A sitenotice, which from what I've been told is not dismissible, for a particular skin is badgering and basically screams of "you're not viewing properly, sign in, change skin, or miss out." If a main page disclaimer and welcome message remark encouraging people to switch isn't enough, then maybe they would want to use the new skin. Having this perpetual thing at the top of each page that cannot be eliminated, as Darthipedia did, as long as the 'new skin' is employed is ridiculous. &mdash; Fiolli  16:58, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) *If you're thinking of the community corner notification thing that has officially replaced the sitenotice in Oasis then you have been misinformed. It disappears after 24 hours have passed since the edit to the "Community Corner" or when the user dismisses it for themselves. A method of a permanent, but dismissable, message (more akin in function to the regular sitenotice) that would only appear on the new skin is what is proposed, I believe. Something in a less jarring color, as well including as the aforementioned dismissability (it's a word really :P), than the current Oasis preview warning would be suitable in my opinion. I don't think it would be of the same scale as what Darthipedia had at any rate. <font face="Verdana">NAYA   <font face="Verdana">YEN   19:57, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) **My point stands. And, please stop wiki-lawyering in the voting area. &mdash; Fiolli  22:33, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Per Fiolli, I have to say no unless we have clear decision to make it dismissable and undistruptive. We are supposed to encourage people instead of doing new skin user witch-hunt. –Tm_T (Talk) 16:56, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh, too far. A message on the main page should be enough. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 16:20, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Sorry guys. I have to disagree on adding this per Fiolli, NaruHina, and Tm_T.  DarthRage Leave a message after the beep17:40, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Voting against this until someone gives an example of what it would look like. Otherwise, it could be used to justify having the words "SWITCH TO MONOBOOK!" flashing in huge, red letters everywhere. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 17:56, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Regarding point 3, we really should have that warning (in a more abbreviated form, if possible) right on the Main Page, too. Possibly on *every* page, if we still have the power to do that in New Coke Look. jSarek 02:18, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * In overall, we should aim in page formatting and layouting to a style that works with wide and narrow views. I'm having 240px ... 1240 px range for content view depending on which device I'm on, and rarely seen any problems thus far, wouldn't mind having this written as recommendation. This is one reason why I'm not sure if point 1 in its current form is something I would support rightaway, as it suggests that only users with screens wide enough are "supported". (: –Tm_T (Talk) 17:15, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Regarding point 3, placing a disclaimer on the main page sounds too extreme to me. Where on the page do you propose this disclaimer should go? And how large will it be? <font color="#208090"> Holocron Greatholocron.jpg <font color="#208090">(Complain) 06:01, November 18, 2010 (UTC)