Talk:Phoenix Cell

/Canon tag
I think in this case the /Canon postscript isn't needed, since it isn't the Canon version of Phoenix Squadron. So this should probably be moved to Phoenix Squadron (A-wings or Rebel network). Corellian Premier The Force will be with you always 15:00, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * We could just leave it at /Canon and remove the link to the Legends Phoenix Squadron, and remove the canon page link from the Legends page. Cevan (talk) 17:31, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that's why we have the /Canon tags. To quote the Eras template usage: "page name of the Canon article for the subject". They're not the same subject. Corellian Premier Jedi symbol.svg Force will be with you always 17:53, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just checking up with this. Are we leaving the title as is? Corellian Premier Jedi symbol.svg Force will be with you always 00:43, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * It is a very similar subject, though. Both happen to be rebel squadrons, though one is the rebel network, and the other is the Alliance. The other difference is the ships. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 10:18, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

Appearances
The appearance section seems rather small. I'd figure that any appearance of Phoenix A-Wings would warrant an appearance for the Squadron at large? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 10:18, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

Season 3
Phoenix Squadron will appear in Season 3121.45.224.75 09:52, September 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I did see a pilot like Phoenix Leader being killed by TIE Interceptors in Enter Thrawn. JS-4422 10:30, September 6, 2016 (UTC)

Merge with Phoenix rebel cell
Are we sure that the Phoenix rebel cell is a separate thing from Phoenix Squadron? The entire cell is collectively called Phoenix Squadron in Rebels itself; the Databank's entry on the group hasn't really been updated since the Season 2 premier, while Phoenix rebel cell on appears in Jun Sato's entry, with Phoenix Squadron nowhere to be found. In my opinion, all content from Phoenix rebel cell should be merged into Phoenix Squadron, while the former can remain as a redirect. -  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 01:57, January 10, 2017 (UTC) That feels like a reach. If the show is constantly saying one thing, trust the show. Let's merge the pages. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 01:15, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * I wasn't too sure about merging them before, but I agree that they should be merged now. Like you said, the entire cell has been referred to in Rebels as just "Phoenix Squadron" multiple times now. I think the main reason the Phoenix rebel cell page existed for a while because it mainly served as the rebel fleet page, but we now have a separate page for that, making the Phoenix cell page rather redundant. Cevan  IMPpress.svg  (talk)  02:11, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure they are referring to the a-wing squadrons. --JS-4422 02:15, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * That was the original context from the Databank entry, yes, but the term has, for a while, been applied to the entire collective. -  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 02:19, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that Phoenix rebel cell is for the whole cell including the military, the ships (because even though there's a rebel fleet page, not all of them are from Phoenix) and commanders. The squadron is just for the specific unit inside the cell. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:39, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe, too, that they should be merged now. Only makes since now that the cells are starting to merge. And they really appear to be the same exact unit in every way. – Nivlacanator (talk) 02:41, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * http://www.starwars.com/databank/phoenix-squadron, Phoenix Squadron is the A-Wing group, the cell is the whole including the squadron and the ships --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:45, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * That source hasn't been updated since the S2 opener, and more sources than not say PS is the entire cell, not just the A-wings. -  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 03:12, January 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that they should be merged, the Specters identify themselves as "from the Phoenix Squadron" throughout the entire show. And at the time that Databank entry released (Siege of Lothal), the Specters had not joined the Phoenix Squadron. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg  AnilSerifoglu  (talk) 03:19, January 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Here goes what I said on the Phoenix rebel cell talk "As I stated before, we should wait for an official confirmation. Although we hear that is commonly called Phoenix Squadron we dont have the certainty of the name. Yes I know the Databank hasnt been updated but there's a reason why both of them are mentioned. Is just like talking about a squadron and the organization if I say I'm a blue angels pilot that doesnt mean that the Navy is calle Blue Angels, if someone says there go the Blue Angels fighters not the Navy fighter. I know is possible that I'm wrong but we should wait a little bit longer." Thanks --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 08:45, January 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * In "Secret Cargo," one of the Gold Squadron pilots indentifies the entire Ghost crew as members of Phoenix Squadron, a statement that would be incorrect if they were only an A-wing squadron, as only Hera flies as part of it. - Pyke syndicate.svg  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 23:57, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Because is the common name that they heard, Gold Squadron is Dodonna's unit and they dont introduce themselves as Dodonna's cell name --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:11, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * We can now add "Double Agent Droid" to the list of sources that refer to the entire Phoenix cell (Spectres included) as "Phoenix Squadron," per the preview at the end of the "Secret Cargo" Rebels Recon. Cevan  IMPpress.svg  (talk)  00:31, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * There's still no confirmation that's the case, Fenn Rau call the Journeyman Protector as just Protectors, so its the same. I'll go and wait for the official confirmation, since a Squadron generally is just fighters not the ships.--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:54, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * You're saying that the Journeyman Protectors and the Protectors are the same, right? You would be correct about that, but by that logic aren't you saying that the Phoenix cell and Phoenix Squadron are the same, thus supporting your opposition? Cevan  IMPpress.svg  (talk)  01:00, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didnt explained myself and fully wrote what I was thinking. I meant that just because someone just call the cell as Phoenix Squadron doesnt mean that they know they full name or even if they are correct. Fenn Rau calls the Journeymans as only Protectors, people called the Spectres as Ghost crew, I know that those cases are the same thing but the point is we waited until a official confirmation to add Journeymans to the name or change from Lothal rebels to Spectres, same goes to this. Until the databank still indicates The squadron as the A-wings it should stay like that, until a new source indicates that Phoenix Squadron is the real name of the cell. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:07, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't be the right move to do. Until a more concrete answer. I think that would be the smartest thing to do --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:24, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The show has referred to the entire cell as "Phoenix Squadron" numerous times now, and the only source calling them the "Phoenix rebel cell" is from a Databank entry written a couple months short of two years ago. Cevan  IMPpress.svg  (talk)  01:27, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * This idea of waiting for concrete answers to easily answerable questions is unnecessary. This is not the type of thing that creators talk about or write down. It's so straight-forward that it doesn't need to be addressed. If the show is using Phoenix Squadron to describe the cell, that's what we should do too. "Wait for a more concrete answer" is unnecessarily and, to be honest, obsessive-compulsively difficult. The consensus here is to merge them, so I'm going to go ahead and do that. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 01:28, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, go ahead and do it. Already save both articles in case of future references.--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:32, March 6, 2017 (UTC)

Y-wings
So, in Zero Hour, we see both green and red Y-wings. Red ones are clearly seen exiting the Carrier, and are seen again later, when one is shot down. In the Mid-season trailer, we see red y-wings and one gets shot down. However in zero hour, these y-wings are green instead (where the female pilot dies). My issue is, we still see red y-wings exiting the PHOENIX carrier. So is this an error, are they red squadron, or are they Phoenix squadron y-wings. Cheers Blitzbugz (talk) 22:21, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

Reference/Existence in A New Hope?
Hi! I was watching a YouTube video and one eagle-eared viewer mentioned a quick audio reference to "Phoenix Squadron" in A New Hope, just as Luke, Han, and Leia enter the Massassi Temple Base. (It's like the first or second interior shot of the base. In my edition of the film, it happens at around 1:38:31)

Does this mean Phoenix Squadron recollects itself after the attack from Thrawn? Or is this a completely separate Phoenix Squad? I didn't just wanna edit the main page without consulting the Star Wars community first. It seems a lot of people haven't noticed this line of dialogue.

Thanks for reading! JC Michaels (talk) 19:33, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

Rename to Phoenix Fleet

 * Can create a new page called Phoenix Fleet because I think they are referring to the squadron of A-wings itself. Or Phoenix Squadron fleet. JS-4422 (talk) 08:10, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Front Lines
The book mentions Phoenix Squadron but I don't think it refers to this Phoenix Squadron but to the A-Wing squadron--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 23:52, July 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * Yeah so? JS-4422 (talk) 00:09, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Its because the article says "Date reorganized c. 5 ABY", as I would undestand it is that the Cell was back for that time and not the A-wing squadron--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:17, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's speculation to say it's the same squadron, unless its stated elsewhere that they're the same squadron --Lewisr (talk) 01:04, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it should be like the Blue Squadron and Blue Squadron (Vrogas Vas) situation with two different articles--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:06, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. JS-4422 (talk) 01:08, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

The reference book Star Wars: Complete Locations says RZ-1 A-wing interceptors of the Phoenix Squadron are housed in the Great Temple of Massassi. --178.220.63.84 03:00, July 22, 2017 (UTC) That seems the most appropriate thing to do --Lewisr (talk) 03:43, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * This brings up a debate as to whether they ever disbanded (and therefore contradicting the episode guide) --Lewisr (talk) 03:04, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * When we merged the articles Phoenix rebel cell and Phoenix Squadron, my main objection was that, I think that the cell and squadron are separate, and I think that the cell was destroyed but the A-wing squadron continued their service as a separate unit, but its pure speculation of my part. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:08, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think the cell is separate from the squadron, it was always refereed to Phoenix Squadron in the show, if they were separate they could have easily made it clear, but that isn't relevant here. It seems that the remaining personnel of the cell could have joined the Massassi group and like Red/Gold/Green squadrons they operate as individual squadrons within the overall group --Lewisr (talk) 03:19, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Not what I was saying, I mean the Squadron is a stand-alone thing like Gold/Corona/Red/Blue.... that's why its possible that the Phoenix Squadron (Unit not cell) could be in the Massasi Temple and in the Battle of Jakku. (By Unit I refer the actual A-Wing squadron)--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:24, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think I see what you mean, so like we originally said about having a separate page for it? --Lewisr (talk) 03:28, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yup, that's what I'm saying. Phoenix Squadron can be the name for both a cell and a actual A-wing squadron. Creating a new page for the A-Wing squadron--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:31, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * IIRC, Complete Locations only said that the A-wing bore the Phoenix insignia, not that the unit was still active. Some Rebel pilots kept the defunct Tierfon Yellow Aces' emblem on their helmets after they were transferred to Red and Blue Squadrons. - Imperial Information Office.svg  AV-6R7  Crew Pit 03:33, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's true, although I think the Front Lines says that Phoenix Squadron was there, not sure since I'm still missing my copy of the book--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:36, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Then it's likely a new squadron under the name Phoenix Squadron was present at Jakku --Lewisr (talk) 03:38, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we should do the same we did for the Blue Squadron, maybe Phoenix Squadron (Jakku)--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:40, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

Phoenix Squadron lives In the Name of the Rebellion. --178.220.21.166 04:52, October 30, 2017 (UTC)

Phoenix Squadron arising from the ashes
Well we know from On the front Lines, that Phoenix Squadron makes a comeback, as in Phoenix Squadron (Jakku), but couldn't it make an appearance in Rebel Assault, as some of the squadron used Phoenix callsigns, Mart Mattin was Phoenix Two, Cleat was Phoenix Four and Duke (pilot) was Phoenix Five.Jkirk8907 (talk) 20:43, November 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * Cleat's databank says she's known as Phoenix Four in the rebellion's vaunted Phoenix Squadron --Lewisr (talk) 06:00, November 14, 2017 (UTC)
 * So is that a yes on Phoenix Squadron appearing in this episode?Jkirk8907 (talk) 16:55, November 14, 2017 (UTC)
 * Asked this question to Matt Martin last week on twitter. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/927964637743714304 Seems like a no unfortunately--Vitus Infinitus (talk) 16:58, November 14, 2017 (UTC)
 * Since we're not taking tweets into consideration, how are we handling Phoenix being active past the Battle of Atollon?-- Vitus Infinitus  Talk 01:59, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * Phoenix Squadron as a cell is no more, but the actual squadron or at least the name is still active after Atollon. Also the Phienix Squadron from Jakku is a NR unit, we don't know if its related to this Phoenix Squadron, just like Blue Squadron (Vrogas Vas). --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:24, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * In In the Name of the Rebellion, Kanan mentions Phoenix Group, although that's the only time it's been mentioned and every other time the unit was referred to as a whole was still Phoenix Squadron-- Vitus Infinitus  Talk 03:15, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * This was one objection I had when Phoenix rebel cell and Phoenix Squadron were merged, I think that both of them exist or at least existed and the continuation of seeing Phoenix Squadron as a military unit after the destruction of their cell is prove enough that there's a squadron on the Rebel Alliance that carries on the rebel cell name--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:28, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * Matt stated on twitter before that the Phoenix callsigns could just be on a mission by mission basis, and not an actual unit, but as discussed in the CT, he could be wrong and so we need to decide how to handle this. My issue with Phoenix Group and Phoenix Squadron being two separate units, although it makes sense, is contradictory as the rebel cell as a whole was called Phoenix Squadron in multiple episode, sources, etc. Sato in Star Wars: The Rebel Files refers to his unit as Phoenix Squadron, and I haven't seen any mention of Phoenix Group anywhere else except Kanan's one or two lines about it in In the Name of the Rebellion-- Vitus Infinitus  Talk 03:39, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
 * Doesn't mean that both cell and squadron can't be called the same. (Pure speculation) Maybe they started as a squadron and that became cell after more ships joined them, but they kept the same name. There's a lot possibilities, but I think there should be two pages or at least note as I did that the cell was just destory, but the name Phoenix Squadron was kept during the Alliance--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:55, January 26, 2018 (UTC)

So far throughout Season Four, Phoenix callsigns appear during Hera's supply mission in "In the Name of the Rebellion" (Leader) and the attack on Lothal in "Rebel Assault" (Leader, Two, Four and Five). Unrelated to starfighter combat, Ezra uses a Phoenix callsign during the theft of the TIE Defender Elite in "Flight of the Defender" (Six). --05:33, January 26, 2018 (UTC)