Talk:Revan/Legends

More than one apprentice?
I just started a new game of KotOR about an hour ago, and I noticed in the opening crawl that Darth Malak is referred to as the "last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan." To me, it seems that Revan trained other Sith apprentices along with Malak, but Malak was Revan's chief apprentice. Grand Moff Tranner (Comlink) 14:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It cannot be. If you read the Darth Bane novels, you would see that Bane's concept for the "Rule of Two" was based on Revan's teachings: "Every Sith to take more than one apprentice is a fool". That's probably because this era was quite undeveloped at the time, so the concept probably changed... I believe it was written that way so it would seem there were a lot of Sith, which was true. Nanook 01:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that quote doesn't say that Revan only had one apprentice. It could be interpreted that he said that, having failed teaching numerous apprentices. Besides, the opening crawl's "last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan" could also explain that. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 12:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to offend anyone here, but you seem to be under the impression that the only time a Sith kills another is to become a Master, that is not the case. It's entirely possible that Alek wasn't Revan's original Sith apprentice, despite their relationship during the Mandalorian Wars, and that Malak eliminated all his competitors to become Darth Revans' apprentice.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 13:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, no, I'm not under that impression. Frankly, I think Malak was the main apprentice, and due to the lack of the Rule of Two, Revan likely trained lesser apprentices (perhaps the Sith Masters found through the game?) as well. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 16:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * All the sources after the first game came out indicate that Malak was his only apprentice, so no, I don't think he personally trained anyone other than Malak. Til a source come sout saying that he trained other apprentices, we should not add that to the article.--Jedi Kasra 21:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What, so the opening crawl means nothing? Am I missing something here? Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 22:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know, man. Like I said, let's not do anything until another source comes out, it's won't be long before the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide is released.--Jedi Kasra 22:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, why should we wait when the opening crawl specifically calls Malak Revan's last surviving apprentice? Something needs to be put in the article about that. I'd do it, but it's likely someone would jump down my throat because of it. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 22:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just put it in the BTS section, since nothing is confirmed yet. Like I said, every source calls Malak his only apprentice, and doesn't even give any hint that he had other Sith apprentices.--Jedi Kasra 23:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is entirely possible at the onset of the Mandalorian Wars that Revan had an actual Padawan who became a Sith after the war...but to have another Sith apprentice seems to go against Revan's holocron in PoD...but then again, Karpshyn most likely never knew he would be delving in the EU in an era other than Revan's. Rushin Sundaws 00:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible, but it can't go in th earticle until proven by a credible source.--Jedi Kasra 00:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, perhaps we could just say that he may have had another Sith apprentice or Padawan at sometime before the events of KoTOR. Rushin Sundaws 00:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah...--Jedi Kasra (talk) 01:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, Jedi Kasra, KotOR is a credible source. Why are you so against putting that fact into the article? The opening crawl specifically calls Malak Revan's last surviving apprentice. That needs to be in the article. While whether the other apprentices were Jedi or Sith is unknown, Revan did have at least one other apprentice. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 13:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Until we actually get to see another apprentice of Revan which is not Malak, we can't put that fact without mentioning it's just a speculation based on the opening crawl. The opening crawl is not a proof. Nanook 14:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Err, are you serous? Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually we can assume the opening crawl is indeed correct because of the wording of PoD and the opening crawl it does not say "Last surviving Sith apprentice" it says "Last surviving apprentice", therefore it is wrong to 'read in' the word "Sith" as Jedi were also reffered to as apprentices many times. This simply means that all his other apprentices that he ever had are dead, it does not mean that he trained more Sith it in no way says that. I believe that Grand Moff Tranner is 'reading in' more than there really is here.  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )JaingHead.svg 15:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but the fact remains that Revan had other apprentices, and the opening crawl is proof of that. This is not speculation; this is cold, hard fact. This needs to be mentioned in the article. I'm glad I brought up the issue here before putting it into the article. I didn't realize this would become such a controversy. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 15:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Put it in, then. But it has to be clarified that those apprentices were probably not Sith. I don't see it fitting per current status-quo for Revan to have another Sith apprentices. Nanook 15:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )JaingHead.svg 15:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added the information to a section of the article. It should probably also be mentioned in the introduction.  Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 16:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nanook, are you aware that it's very likely Revan had more than one Sith apprentice at a time? The Rule of Two wouldn't be in existence for two thousand years. Yes, Revan used a form of the Rule of Two at least at the end of his reign, but it's not impossible for him to have trained someone else alongside Malak at the beginning of his reign. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 16:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmphh. I believe we'll just have to live and see, I guess that the answer will be revealed in the comics. I'd like to see another source confirming the theory. Nanook 19:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the same source as most of this article uses. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course. I meant something more of an example. I get the feeling that whatever intentions the author had in mind more than 5 years ago, it has already changed since. How is it no other source claimed similarly in that time? Of course, this is just a feeling. Nanook 13:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe he had other apprentices the same way Darth Tyrannus and Vader had Dark Jedi apprentices. Its also possible he added the info about never having more than 1 student in his holocron because some of the apprentices other than Malak tried to gang up on him and he learned from his mistakes. Steves490 19:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is possible that Revan might of trained a replacement for Malak when he reactivated to Sith Academies on Malachor V and Korriban. This would make sense seeing that Revan and Malak did not see eye to eye on tactics during the Jedi Civil War, the former wanting to strengthen the Republic by skipping heavily fortified worlds and the latter wishing to crush it with all his might. User:Unknown 19:00, 12 June 2008 EST
 * Again this is too much specualting we are getting away from the point. If he had other "Dark Jedi"/"Sith" apprentices or merely other "Jedi" who had been apprentices in the past it doesn't matter as they are all dead before KOTOR (which is the only evidence that he had any other than Malak), the fact that we have established that he did have others should be enough. We will have to wait for more sources to be released before we can acuratley plot anything.  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )JaingHead.svg 18:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Revelation?
How was Revan indirectly mentioned in the book?--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Revan slicing off Malak's jaw
It should be mentioned that he did so, while they were dueling, somewhere in the article, perhaps in the "Jedi Civil War" section. See the "Darth Malak" section for the approrpiate sources.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm, ho do you know that?  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 19:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Insider 100 and/or the databank. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 21:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please put up a picture of revan slicing off malak's jaw.--Darth Judicar 1998 09:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)Darth Judicar 1998
 * Sorry, there isn't an image of that event. All we know is that it happened. Cylka  -talk- 12:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Hasbro cardback picture


I removed the package elements from a scan of Revan's Hasbro cardback. If it's not considered fanon, could it be used, and if so, for the infobox? It looks live-action. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 13:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I like it personally. It's not fanon as its from an official product. I think the main reaction here will be that its too dark though. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 14:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC) I looked on another site, and the back of the card has a better/brighter version. I can try scanning it. Drewton   ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Too dark and the quality isn't good enough for infobox. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 15:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I like it, alot. Good for the infobox, but a deff for the article whole.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 15:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say it's good for the infobox, but, if there's space, it might be okay for somewhere else. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 15:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comparing it with in-game shots is like comparing night and day, IMO. The only details that really need to be seen in an infobox are of the head, which you can see clearly and is bright enough. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

That would be a fantastic main image. Can it be done? - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 18:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I remembered that I have the Canadian packaging, which has the picture in just a small sheet. Even if I tried scanning it, my scanner's not that great. I'll see if I can get anyone else who has the regular packaging to do it. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 19:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just attempted a rescan...utter crap. Unless the artist has a website with hi-res versions, we're stuck with this one. Just don't even try to put into the infobox. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 03:42, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Stop trying to be King of Wookieepedia again Redemption.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's try and keep pointless, aggravating comments to the minimum, shall we? I think it's fairly obvious that the image isn't suitable for the infobox, but if you do want it there, please start a vote. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 12:04, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't planning to put it in the infobox unless it was agreed upon, and even if I was I wouldn't because of the banning warning. If I do a scan/camera picture of thr brighter one and it's still not right, it could be used for the Mandalorian Wars section. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's a brighter version taken by one of the administrators of YakFace.com. There's some cardboard lines in it, but it looks fine in the infobox.

Another option is to ask Hasbro for the original picture in their bi-weekly Q&A on one of the collecting forums. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 14:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Er... the problem with that picture is that it isn't even an accurate representation of Revan's helmet. Compare it with an in-game screenshot or with File:DarthRevan DarthMalak EGF.jpg. The helmet is too large, it is colored incorrectly, and it is not nearly as detailed as Revan's real mask. If you want to put this somewhere, put it in the Bts section.--172.190.129.205 15:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Unlike the toy, it is accurate, except for the silver which is likely because of the lighting. Even if they looked very different, it would still be canon because it's an official picture. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. Revan's helmet/mask is a combination of a dull, reddish brown mixed with a dark, slate colored metal. The cheapo plastic mask in that picture looks almost nothing like it. Anyway, who says that the picture is canon? It is just silly. The helmet has a defined appearance and that picture does not match it. As such, why bother putting it in the article? It is ugly.--172.190.129.205 15:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay...that was a really unnecessary comment, Jasca. I have a suggestion for you too. Stop trying to bait people into an argument. Anyway...ignoring that obviously trolling comment, Yakfaces has nasty scan lines on it anyway. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 15:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Before asking Hasbro for a high-res original picture I'll start a vote. This isn't a vote for either pictures that have been uploaded, it's for whether even a high-res original picture would be worth asking for or not. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:28, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This vote is premature. Ask and then we'll see where it goes. If Hasbro denies the request then the vote would have been worthless anyway. A hi-res quality image is also preferable even if it doesn't go in the infobox. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 15:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point about needing a high-res picture anyway, I've removed the vote. In Hasbro's Q&A, though, where I'll be asking them, they'll almost certainly give the picture, escpecially if told that it's for Wookieepedia, unless if they don't have it at the time. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, if we can find a hi-res picture without cardboard lines and whatnot, I'd support its insertion into the infobox. Nice find. :D --Kessel 15:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

As would I. If you preiview either image in the infobox they dont look that bad. As for it being inacurate who says Revan didnt have two helmets,or maybe he had removable stickers on it. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 17:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a good picture, but rather dark, if it were lightened up, I wouldn't be against its use as an infobox image.RushinSundaws 17:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Removable stickers?! K.A.J., you've just made my day. XD --Kessel 17:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Youre welcome Kessel. He may have been a Dark Lord of the Sith, but that doesnt mean he didnt have an inner child - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 17:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Seeing as it's a canon source, the helmet discrepancy shouldn't matter. Did Hasbro end up getting you the image, Drewton?  I'd definitely support it being added to the article. --Brukhar 02:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * But seeing as Hasbro toys and pictures have been declaired non-cannon in the past and the fact that this picture directly contradicts everything else with Revan, how can it be considered cannon? if you look in the arcived chat for this page it was determined that Hasbro was not a cannon source for such things (or at least thats what the other users said I really dont know) Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )JaingHead.svg 16:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The toys (or whatever you want to call them) themselves are not canon, since it would cause a lot of trouble, but box art and descriptions are. Charlii 17:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not exactly accurate either. Instead of pure non-canon, it's often grouped in the "ambiguous canon" department. Anyway, I'd say that the discrepancies are either artistic license and liberties, or he has more than one mask. Both of which are entirely plausible. 18:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

All Choices Were Light-Sided??
How can it be Cannon that ALL of Revan's choices throughout the whole game are Light-Sided? Even after he discovers his true identity. Then story wise, there's no sense of conflict or character development in Revan. He's just a one-sided person who does good deeds. Without the personal and emotional conflict of characters like Anakin Skywalker or Jacen Solo (when he was becoming Darth Caedus), Revan's a boring character (at least in the game, not counting his back story before the events in KOTOR 1). It's a shame too. This character had a lot of potential. But according to Cannon, Revan's a predictable "do-gooder" (for lack of a better term) as opposed to, for example, Darth Vader and Darth Caedus, just to name a few. (JordanRevin08 16:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * I fail to see why this is a problem. He becomes a Jedi, and he stays to that path, meaning he does good. So? Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 16:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Even if you do all of the light side acts in the game, Revan says that he almost turned on Lehon before dueling Bastila. I agree with you, however; actually, we don't know for certain whether all of his actions in KOTOR were light-sided. Wookieepedia assumes that he did because he "followed the path the Jedi/lightside".  Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So he was already a Jedi before the events in KOTOR 1 took place, and he still became a Sith Lord after the Mandalorian Wars, but at least then his character was interesting and more believable. After being brainwashed by the Council, he's been watered down to an absolutely ONE-sided character, leaving no room for important aspects like emotional and moral conflict - things which make characters like Vader, Caedus, or even Krayt and Cade Skywalker interesting to learn about. The idea of Revan still staying true to the Light Side all the way, even after discovering that he was "reprogrammed" (as Carth states) with a false identity by the Jedi Council, is unbelievable and lacking in character development. (JordanRevin08 17:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * I know it's Cannon that Revan chose the Jedi/Light Side path by the end of the game, but I can't believe that EVERY CHOICE he made in the game was Light Sided. That's like saying "let's just pick one side for a potentially great character, then toss him on the shelf without putting any depth or moral conflict into his character". (JordanRevin08 17:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * So you're saying that Revan may have made some dark side choices throughout the game? I doubt it, considering he was a Republic soldier and then a Jedi. No room for the dark side there. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 17:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't be so close-minded. That's how you make tedious characters. Anakin Skywalker was a light-sider when he cut down all those Tusken Raiders (women and children included), yet what he did was excellent for inserting moral conflict and regret into his character. Luke Skywalker joined Palpatine in Dark Empire, even after everything he went through with Vader and Palpatine in Episode VI. Jacen Solo started out much like the Cannon Version of KOTOR's Revan: a total lightsider with little to no interesting aspects, character-wise. Then he transitioned into Darth Caedus. So Revan was a Jedi and a Republic soldier, therefore "no room for Dark Side choices." Wrong. You'd have to do better than that if you want to get your point across. What point are you trying to make anyway - justifying why Revan should be an uninteresting character? (JordanRevin08 17:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * And so was Bastila, minus a Republic soldier. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 17:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Um, excuse me? I wasn't the one who developed the game; there's no reason to call me close-minded. I'm simply stating my opinion on this matter. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 18:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean you are close-minded. Your statement was close-minded. "Revan was a Republic soldier and then a Jedi. No room for the Dark Side there." He was already part of the Jedi and the Republic military before KOTOR 1 took place, and he convinced a third of both to switch loyalties to him. Seems like there's plenty of room for the Dark Side there. (JordanRevin08 18:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * First, you didn't hurt my feelings. I saw that as rather rude, considering I did nothing to provoke it. The fact is that, following his capture, Revan received a new memory. If he used the light-side option for everything after that, there was no room for the dark side since he had no memory of being a Sith (until Malak tells him, but by that time, you're eight light or dark). Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 18:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And when he does figure out who he really is and what the Jedi did to him, Revan's still willing to do their bidding and remain the "happy-go-lucky lightsider/Jedi puppet". That's where Revan's character falls to nothing short of unbelievable, with zero psychological and emotional conflict, thus ultimately making a disappointing character. (JordanRevin08 18:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * With the light-side ending as canonical, it's obvious that Revan remains a Jedi throughout the story post-Malak's revelation. Undoubtedly Revan had a major psychological and emotional conflict, but that's not enough to cause him to commit some dark side deeds and still end up with the light-side ending. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research.svg (Comlink) 19:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's why Anakin Skywalker committed a few Dark Side deeds, and many more during his time as Darth Vader, and yet he still ended up with a Light Side ending. Revan canonically chose the Jedi in the end, but that does not prove that every single light side choice in the game is canonical. He could kill Bendak, work with the Genoharadan, and still end up as the hero of the Republic. If it was indeed all light sided, then that just makes for a pretty straightforward story, with no real drama or emotional struggle within the character. (JordanRevin08 19:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * The format we have is fine, I think. There's no reason to completely discount the wealth in storyline that comes if Revan is a little dark (e.g. dueling Bendak Starkiller, confronting the Genoharadan). -BaronGrackle 19:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In general, listing all of Revan's actions as purely light side and assuming full completion of the game with most side-quests fulfilled are two key Wookieepedia conventions. They're not meant to imply canonicity&mdash;they are stipulations we make and have made in the past so we can write an article without the speculative "Revan might or mightn't have duelled Bendak Starkiller". In a fully completed article, an extensive segment of his Behind the scenes section would be devoted to discussing his dark side and/or alterate actions. Again, we're not implying that Revan's actions were only light-side&mdash;it's a stylistic assumption until we get a canonical update from LFL. Thanks. Atarumaster88  Jedi_Order.svg ( Talk page ) 19:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Pic of Karath's torture of Revan, Carth, and Bastila
The pic depicts Revan as a white-skinned male. I feel that we should take this pic off the article, since one who has not played the game and reads this article would probably assume that Revan is white, like that whole business with his action figure. It's still unknown whether Revan was white, dark-skinned, or what, so we should take it off Agree? Disagree?.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC) I don't agree with removing the Star Forge image, but I won't argue it further. Perhaps this image would work in its place? Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 21:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC) I'd like to discuss keeping the duel image again. There's even less details on the cloak in this picture. It's just a black cloak and it has the brown gloves that look like vambraces, like on the Droma robes. Or I can take a screenshot with the actual Droma game robes and hide the head. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 18:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Same goes for the ingame Star Forge duel screenshot. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 18:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I assumed it would be alright because it's used in the Force cage article. As for the Star Forge duel image, it was discussed and agreed upon previously. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 18:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with the in-game Star Forge duel photo. So Revan is seen wearing his armored robs - that's how he's depicted in Duron Qel-Droma's vision, so said "in-game Star Forge duel picture" should be allowed to remain. (JordanRevin08 20:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * Except he's not. It's specifically stated in Shadows and Light that he's wearing the Qel-Droma robes, which is the hooded cape. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 20:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * However, the only thing you can see clearly is the hood cape in the picture. There's no Revan mask. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 20:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Same Mask, same Gauntlets, do the math and it adds up to the same armor (most likely recreated by the Star Forge). The only difference is he's wearing a different cloak. (JordanRevin08 13:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)JordanRevin08)
 * No, no, and I would if the first 2 assumptions were actually founded. But the fact that he's wearing a different cloak is enough to warrant removal of the image anyway. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 14:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks nearly exactly the same, just with a dark cloak. Anakin's appearance in The Clone Wars isn't how it's supposed to be but it's canon. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 15:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The differences in appearance for Anakin in the Clone Wars is called artistic license. The differences between the cloaks are called them not being the same cloak. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 15:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The main problem that I see with the Star Forge duel picture does not lie with the color of the cloak. Instead, equipping that particular outfit, with the hood up like that, is not possible without either a mod or a cheat. I'd say that puts that picture firmly in the category of fanart, regardless of its accuracy. Unless it's explained how that can be achieved with an unmodded version of KotOR and without cheating, I think it's best that the Star Forge image be removed from this article until then. Muuuuuurgh 20:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Or not. If we go on that decision, then we'll have to remove half the images from the article, including the infobox image; and I for one would be against that whole-heartedly. I suggest it remains there until another miage of the duel can be found.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 11:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What on Earth do the other images have to do with this? And since we're starting to get sidetracked, we're all in agreement that the Karath/Revan/Carth/Bastila torture picture should go, right? --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 11:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you can barely see who's who through the fields on the Force Cages, and removing it will just leave that space empty and blank, so I think it should stay.  Jasca Ducato Sith Council 12:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should stay as well. Also as the skin thing came up again, if we can't take Revan's skin color as white we can't take Nihilus's hair color as black. - –K.A.J•T•C•E• 12:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "you can barely see who's who through the fields on the Force Cages" Barely seeing still means you can see them. You shouldn't be able to at all, therefore it goes. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 12:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It can be interpreted that the colour of his skin is being hidden by the electric shock. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 14:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Jasca, on your first point, if you are aware of any other images of that nature on this page, I heartily encourage you to remove them. On your second point, I respectfully disagree with the idea that it is all right to include a fanon image in one of our articles in the absence of a canonical image. Muuuuuurgh 16:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no problems with the image of Revan dueling Malak, ut's the one with the force cages.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the only canon way we can do it from the game. No matter how you spin the Revan's robe deal, it's still Revans robes. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 03:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Planets
The events during the second search are barely even touched on. If it's because the order of the planets aren't specified, then leave a note. I would suggest using the order on the game's page so it won't cause confusion. NaruHina ''' Talk 07:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Relationship Audio Files
In the "Relationships" section, it struck me as odd that we have audio files for the Jolee Bindo quote and the Carth Onasi quote, but not for the other two. Can someone who has the PC game slice the audio files out for the Bastila quote at the very least, and possibly for the Juhani quote? Seeing as the Bastila relationship is the one that is canon, would it not make sense to have audio for that quote, if we're going to have it for the Carth Onasi relationship? Hopefully this isn't too nitpicky. :P

--Brukhar 00:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Male or Female
How do we know that Revan is male. In Kotor II: The Sith Lords, Revan's former master, Kreia, refers Revan as a female numerous times. Mastermooro 21:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )JaingHead.svg 15:12, 24 July 2008 (UTC) Just to note: KOTOR came out before the Darth Bane: Path of Destruction book. The game allows Revan to be either male or female meaning he could be either male or female. Best to be more precise. Sure the author of the book, may have been Revan's creator, but a book can be merely a perspective, an article should strive to be as technically correct as possible. Hence, I'd suggest Revan is referred to as "Revan" or "they" Poyntz 08:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC) This is proof revan is in fact the sith'ari:(Kessel: Rickroll removed.) Revan Acolyte88 00:37, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Only if you say that Revan is female in the game :P . Revan's gender was confirmed by Leland Chee and in the The New Essential Chronology. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 21:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Furthermore if you read Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Revan is referred to as Male by Karpyshyn, who is the creator of Revan, you cant get much more cannon than that.
 * CANNON GO BOOM! You're right, though. Nanook 19:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, canon doesn't work like that. Ignoring later sources is like suggesting we ignore the events of ESB or KoTOR 2. It's nonsensical. --  I need a name  ( Complain here ) 11:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point. However two different sources have conflicting opinions. one specifies male; the other specifies male or female. Which is therefore technically correct?Poyntz 02:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The simplest rule is this: the latest source to something that was ambiguous is the most accurate. This applies only to things that are ambiguous, i.e. gender of Revan and the Exile being established by later products. Even if the author had originally intended an event or detail, it is the final product that's judged in light of later products. Thus even if Karpyshyn HAD intended Revan to be a woman, the canon gender was set as male by the later products such as the NEC. Leeland Chee and others word diligently to make sure canon is maintained once established. Vryce 07:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * DO NOT FOLLOW THE LINK BELOW AS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INDICATED TOPIC  Ryan Fett  ( For Mandalore! )JaingHead.svg 02:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fascinating evidence. However, you've now posted this here and in Anakin's talk page. Obviously you don't believe what you say. - Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 01:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com refers to Revan as a male. ––Bron Hañda 05:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

5.3 Factual correction
I just noticed that the Darth Revan article says that he turns to the light side at the Star Forge and that that is the canonical events. However, if you go to the "Post Jedi Civil War" section of the jedi exile's article, it says that the exile appeared after Revan left to go to the unexplored regions and all the jedi had been hunted down and killed. If Revan turned to the good and the Star Forge was destroyed, who killed the Jedi? Was it Nihilus or Kreia and the Shadow War? If so, this section needs a reference on that. Thanks!
 * Err, it already has been sourced. And Sion and Nihilus hunted down the Jedi. Drewton  Era-old.png ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Summary
The summary at the page is kind of long isn't it? DracosTheBlack 16:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Good Wookieepedia articles are of a very high level of detail, and length isn't an issue if there's enough material. If this had FA-level detail, it would be much longer, and there are far longer FA nominations at present. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Etymology
The word revenant seems like a likely source to me. Look at its definition:

from Wiktionary

revenant (plural revenants)

1. Someone who returns from a long absence. 2. A supernatural being that returns from the dead; a zombie or ghost.

Doesn't definition 1 seem suiting for Revan, given his background? It even works for both the light side and dark side endings!

Light side - Revan was a hero of the Mandalorian Wars and a renowned Jedi Knight. He falls to the Sith, is killed, and returns from a long absence to the Jedi and his hero status.

Dark side - Revan is 'killed' by Malak (remember that Malak ordered the destruction of Revan's flagship), and after killing Malak on the Star Forge, returns from a long absence to his former title of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Makes sense to me.
 * The source of what the word means is not what goes in the Bts, it is the source that the word was what inspired the name, ergo, it makes the definition moot until it is confirmed. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 13:28, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Revan's Name
What was his real name? Was it just Revan or was that his Sith name? And what does the Sith name mean if that is just his Sith name?

It is currently unkown if that was his real name or not. My theory is that, because the Jedi Council order the arrests of the Jedi Crusaders, he changed his name to Revan, like Alek changed his to Malak in Turnabout. Then, when they fell to the dark side they became Darth Revan and Darth Malak. We know from the corpses of dead Republic soldiers on Dxun that he was called Revan during the late stages of the Mandalorian wars. And we also know that "The Revanchist" was a nickname given to him by the media, so it seems a bit to convienant for Revan to be his real name. At any rate the name Revan is inspired by the word Revanchism, which means to take revenge, to fight back, and to reclaim lost grounds. Which describes him perfectly. Jayce Carver 20:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Known Masters
Um, what about Bastila? User:AHS0KA
 * I've decided to ad Bastila as one of his masters, because you can't deny that she was. User:AHS0KA
 * Removed. By no means she was his master. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 17:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

was malak redeemed
When you beat Malak on the Forge his word choice and tone make him sound regretfull. could we consider this like half redemption? could we compare him to lets say judas? Im putting this question on this page cause this page is much more popular than malaks

There's no such thing as "more popular". We would see the edit on either page. G B 57 04:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Revan Turning to the Dark Side
I thought that Revan turned to the dark side to save the galaxy from a greater threat. But in the Revan's Sith Empire article it says that: Towards the end of the Mandalorian Wars, the Republic's Jedi commander Revan visited the ancient Trayus Academy on the Sith world of Malachor V. There, he fell under the influence of the dark side. So which one is true?LordDeathRay 22:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Revan as a Jedi Master?
Hey all I've been reading your discussions and your articles for some time. I just noticed that in the article on Revan the first line says he was a jedi master. I've never seen a source that says this so I was curious where you got that info. Are you using the Revanchist for that?(Jdubbz 17:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC))
 * Thanks for catching that. I've changed to Jedi Knight, since he wasn't a Jedi Master. Cylka  <font color=#00A693>-talk- 18:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It says he was a Jedi Master in the KotORCG, I believe. But it is canon that he was a master. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 20:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Can you please provide a link to where that statement is confimered. Also can you say what your acronyms stand for please. Are you talking about the KOTOR Campaign Guide? If so I have it right in front of me and it says absolutely nothing about Revan being a Jedi Master.(Jdubbz 21:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC))
 * Several weeks ago, we mounted a search in the IRC for this. I don't remember which source said it but it said he was a Master. And even if he wasn't it never says he was a Knight in the Mando Wars either. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 22:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Well if you ever come across the source again I would love it if you would post a link for us to see it. If not maybe just the place you started at so we can have a general area to search ourselves. Thanks.(Jdubbz 22:15, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

Are you talking about the Chronicles of the Old Republic saying he was a master? If so that article is plagued with errors in continuity. It says datooine was overseen by Master Vodo-Siosk Baas during the Mandalorian Wars which is impossible since Exar Kun killed him. It also says that Bastila's strike team tried to do the mind wipe on the Leviathan when his body was broken but was only partially successful. It also says Jolee Bindo was a Master even though he said himself that he never passed Padawan. It also says the Exile was a padawan when she rebelled and joined Revan but after the war she is called a Jedi Knight. It also says that Revan constructed Trayus Academy prior to the Malachor V battle but in TSL it says that it was constructed by the true sith thousands of years ago. So can we really take their statements that seriously?(Jdubbz 15:47, 22 February 2009 (UTC))
 * Revan is referred to as a Jedi Master in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. "The redeemed Jedi Master Revan". I imagine it was a rank he gained after his redemption. (86.1.172.195 10:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC))

Possible canon for Revan's class
Hey again. I bought and read the new campaign guide for Kotor link and found something interesting. It lists one of Revan's powers as force focus. Does this mean he is a consular? That is the inherent power of that class.

Garrr I wish they would just come out and say it for crying out loud.(Jdubbz 20:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)) Aren't the games considered C-canon as well. Also Mace Windu knew Force Crush. He always walked a fine line using the vapaad form which chanelled his darkness into a weapon of the light. This could explain why he could use force crush without being a "sith lord".(Jdubbz 20:37, 21 February 2009 (UTC))
 * Well, the inherint ability learning of the classes may just be game mechanics. To take an example from KotOR2 You have to be a specific class to learn Force Crush but any Dark Jedi can learn it in canon. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 20:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes the games are C-canon, but there are things in them called "Game Mechanics" in them. For example, Vulture droids are self piloting but in SW: Battlefront 2 they need a droid pilot. That only a certain class can learn a Force Power is also a game mechanic in that, as you said, even Jedi can learn dark side powers and Mace Windu, a Jedi Master, learned an ability only available to a Sith Lord in KotOR so even if he canon learned this power, it does not confirm his class. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 20:52, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

So noone thinks it is even worth mentioning? I mean the book is a canon source and this is the KOTOR era and not the era you speak of where they can learn any power. Even the book says it is based on the KOTOR era.You would think those "game mechanics" would apply in the era.(Jdubbz 21:00, 21 February 2009 (UTC))
 * No, I think it should totally be mentioned that he knew the power but game mechanics are non-canon. Mention that he knew Force Focus but do not add speculation that he was a Consular because any Jedi can learn the power, at least until it is specificly stated in a novel or sourcebook that only consulars could learn the power. NaruHina  Talk Anakinsolo.png 21:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe George Lucas and his posse can come out and say what class he is...grumble grumble. (Jdubbz 22:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC))

Thon's robe, a usable item in TSL, grants Force Focus to the wearer, as well as Force Jump and immunity to fear effects, which are normally all class-restricted features for Consulars, Guardians and Sentinels. Force training becomes individual at some point, the fact that Revan learned Force Focus doesn't say anything about the standard training for his original class.--Jinger 12:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Revan, Malachor and the Star Maps
Hey folks, just a quick couple of points to make. :)

First off, there should be some mention in the article that Dantooine is - at least as far as Malak knows - the first Star Map Revan found. Maybe Malak didn't know about Kashyyyk - it's irrelevant - we should at least point out that Revan may have found Dantooine's Star Map first.

Second: despite the fact that the CG (or was it EGttF?) holds that Revan found the Star Map on Kashyyyk and then went to Malachor (well, actually, it just lists him as finding them both in the same year, there's no concrete reference to it being one then the other), this cannot be the case when we are told, in KotOR II, that Revan learnt of Korriban's location from Malachor. Since Korriban's location is on the Kashyyyk Star Map, his discovery of it before Malachor is precluded. Sometimes sourcebooks are just wrong... and it doesn't help when the authors use incomplete Wook pages (like this one) as part of their research, either. (86.1.172.195 10:49, 25 March 2009 (UTC))

please sign your postsJdubbz 19:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory claims?
In the section of the article that covers Revan's fall to the dark side, it is suggested by Kreia that 'perhaps Revan never fell', and at the end of the article it is written that 'Revan eventually embraced the dark side'. Doesn't that invalidate Kreia's claims from Kotor 2? Besides, I don't think that Kreia was trying to say that Revan never became a true dark sider. On the contrary, I think she was trying to emphasize that he did not unintentionally fall to the dark side like Ulic Qel-Droma, but rather chose the dark side with full understanding of what he was doing.--Sentry 05:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it pretty much invalidates her claims. When I wrote that section, I was only presenting facts. I was trying to avoid making any commentary that could be construed as original research. A lot of people would get annoyed if the article flatly stated that Kreia was wrong.

Revan's Skin Color
Can someone explain where it's stated that Revan has light skin? What's the source behind that claim? Why should we automatically take everything about some miscellaneous toy to be canon? Even if it were to be taken as canon wouldn't it simply in reference to Darth Revan? The Dark Side makes the skin pale so maybe that could be the explanation. Yamagashi21 02:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The action figures are canon. We take Nihilus's black dreads as canon, so we must take Revan's light skin as canon. In the game a black persons skin is turned dark gray by the dark side, not white. Jayce Carver

First of all black people are not the only people with dark skin and in general dark skin is seen to become very pale when heavily influenced by the dark side. Second what source says that anything and everything about SW/KOTOR related toys are automatically canon despite the fact that it's not unheard of for toys to contradict canon at times? Based on what authority do you make that claim? Yamagashi21 15:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Toys are C-canon and this doesn't contradict anything. I'm unsure what the problem is. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 15:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying this particular situation is a contradiction but it's not unusual for toys to incorrectly portray their source material at times. Are we simply to assume that every detail about any toy is canon? The real question here is what authority figure has approved and declared this to the canon appearance of Revan? Yamagashi21 16:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All the toys go by Lucasfilms and they're the ones who approve each and every toy released with the copyright on it. So Lucasfilms approved this figure. Whether they know or not that it would mean Revan now has an official skin tone is another question but is irrelevant. And like I said before, there is no contradiction.-- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 17:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well I really don't buy that explanation. There is a variety of possible Revan faces that have been scene including the KOTOR commercial mentioned in the article. Who's to say that this toy isn't merely the representation of a possible Darth Revan? If Revan had a canonical skin tone it's logical to assume someone of authority would have confirmed this is in fact the true representation of Darth Revan and not a possible representation. Yamagashi21 20:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant. And who says it's not the true representation of Revan? Works both ways. We have to take what we're given. Same goes for the Jedi Exile, who in fact, has just been given a canon face based upon the WOTC miniature. -- Redemption Redemptionusersymbol.png (Talk) 03:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, what face was chosen, do you know? –<font color="#000">Victor  Sienar.svg (<font color="#000">talk page ) 04:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

As Redemption said, everything goes through Lucasfilm. If they didn't want to establish Revan's canon skin tone they wouldn't have approved the figure. They did, however, and so it is canon. Jayce Carver

Even if every detail about the toy were to be officially announced as canon it would only be a canon representation of Darth Revan. Since the Dark Side makes the skin pale for all we know Light Side Revan can still be any skin tone and have any hair style. If it’s to be left in the article I think it makes sense to note the light skin is only a characteristic of Dark Side Revan as seen in the toy. Yamagashi21 14:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)