I'm not activated that much, but I noticed that Return of the Jedi was originally going to end with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin Skywalker comes back to life from their spectral existence in the Force.
I'm not activated that much, but I noticed that Return of the Jedi was originally going to end with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin Skywalker comes back to life from their spectral existence in the Force.
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Do you think Jacen's transition to the dark side was handled well?
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Good evening. I am a Darth Vader fan and I want to learn more about the character. I know that there are some comics with Darth Vader in it. What storylines or comics would you recommend for Darth Vader? (For a new fan)
How? Toilet paper rolls and paper. I had one toilet paper roll at the bottom and paper everywhere else. Coloring it hurt my finger SOOOO much.
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In A New Hope, Obi-Wan utters the iconic comeback to Vader, If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
For years, I thought that was just a cryptic reference to the fact that Obi-Wan would transcend the physical realm and become a Force Ghost. His self-sacrifice at the end of the duel seemed to confirm that fact. He could still guide Luke on his journey and, as Yoda and Luke demonstrated in The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker, could even interact with the physical plane to some degree.
I also thought it tracked with the larger irony that Palpatine sought the power to cheat death using the dark side, but that life—including everlasting life—is something attainable only through the light side. In The Clone Wars, Yoda’s journey to discover the power to retain his consciousness after death involved confronting and overcoming his fears and inner darkness, and reaching some degree of self-enlightenment.
In contrast, Palpatine’s own attempts to achieve immortality using “dark science and cloning” resulted in perilous results that left him corpse-like and dependent on others for his survival.
Basically, Obi-Wan’s line was a declaration of the power and self-actualization that comes with becoming a Force Ghost.
But, Obi-Wan utters a similar line to Maul years earlier on Mandalore: You can kill me, but you will never destroy me…those who oppose [the dark side] are more powerful than you’ll ever be.
This was long before Obi-Wan trained with Qui-Gon to discover the secret to retaining his consciousness after death. But the line carries the same tone, context, and I think the same intended meaning as the line Obi-Wan says to Vader in ANH. Which makes me question my original interpretation of the ANH dialogue.
I suppose one could say that the lines, although similar, mean different things. For example, the TCW line could be just a precursor to what Obi-Wan expressly says to Maul in Rebels: If you define yourself by your power to take life, the desire to possess, to dominate, then you have nothing.
But I think it’s more interesting if the lines have the same meaning, such that the message is just Obi-Wan’s constant refutation to the dark side’s strength. In figuring out what this common meaning is, I think it’s important to note that Luke also said something similar to Kylo Ren on Crait: Strike me down and I’ll always be with you. Just like your father.
In issue #25 of Star Wars (2020), Kylo vainly searches the galaxy for where Luke’s ghost might be but cannot make contact with Luke. And in TROS, Rey observes that Kylo Ren can’t stop thinking about how he killed Han and remains haunted by the act, which is pretty much confirmed when a memory of Han confronts Kylo at the moment of his redemption.
Both of those things demonstrate that Luke’s words to Kylo were true. By sacrificing himself to stall Kylo’s advance on the Resistance, Luke became a haunting presence to Kylo. Killing Han just shattered Kylo’s commitment to the dark side and made him more conflicted.
I think we see some of that same “haunting” of Vader throughout The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Whenever Vader confronts Luke, he’s as preoccupied with Obi-Wan as he is with Luke. He’s constantly bringing up to Luke that “Obi-Wan has taught you well,” “Now [Obi-Wan’s] failure is complete,” “Don’t let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did,” etc. It feels much like a continuation of the obsession Vader had with Obi-Wan in Rebels and the Obi-Wan Kenobi show.
Maul is in a similar case after enacting his revenge on Obi-Wan by killing Satine. He literally crafts a shrine to commemorate that “victory” and cannot stand the thought of Obi-Wan still living out in the galaxy once he discovers Obi-Wan’s survival through the holocrons.
In all three cases—Vader, Maul, and Kylo—it seems like the common thread isn’t that striking down Obi-Wan or Luke would make the Jedi more powerful because they would become Force Ghosts. Obi-Wan turns Luke’s training over to Yoda once he passes, and although he can occasionally intervene to guide Luke in key moments, he bluntly tells Luke in TESB that he’s on his own if he decides to confront Vader: I cannot interfere.
Rather, the common link seems to be the lack of peace that destroying the Jedi would bring to Vader, Maul, and Kylo. All three are still obsessed with Obi-Wan or Luke after the Jedi have died, and without a physical body to swing their lightsaber at, Vader, Maul, and Kylo remain impotently consumed by the legacy of their enemy. It sort of speaks to Maul‘s deranged line—which the Mortis Son also uttered—that the chains are the easy part. It’s what goes on in [the mind] that’s hard.
So, perhaps that’s what Obi-Wan means by I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. Not so much that “I shall become a Force Ghost and transcend death,” but something closer to “I shall haunt you the rest of your days.” Obi-Wan’s death would rob Vader of any kind of peace and become constant, unkillable enemy that Vader cannot help but see made manifest in Luke—his own son.
I’m not sure if any of this actually tracks, and probably wasn’t the original meaning of the dialogue, but I think it’s worth the reinterpretation in light of this idea being expanded upon since ANH.
What do you guys think? Was Obi-Wan alluding to Force Ghosts, or do you buy that Obi-Wan’s meaning had more to do with the lack of true peace that would come with killing him? Or do you think it has an entirely different meaning?