Does anyone else have a tier list?
This tier list was just to show what I personally like vs what I don't. When I think of Star Wars, the things in the first four tiers are mainly what come to mind, more specifically the S and A tiers. It is essentially a list of my favorites (S) to least favs (C) and the projects I am annoyed by/dislike/don't think were executed well. Like I said, it is harsh, but it's my opinion. I do have another list, though, where I try to rate each project by its quality and a little less on my personal preference. I can show y'all that one if y'all want.
Here's my new tier list. It's pretty harsh...I made a whole separate tier for projects I would like to consider non canonical in my head. I have another list rating each project from A to F, but I wanted to make this one different. Also, for The Mandalorian, I'd put the first two seasons in A and the third in Does Not Exist.
And I cannot understand the mind wipe thing. It makes no sense whatsoever. That scene was so ridiculous.
The show may not out right say that the Sith are good, but it doesn't really say they're bad either. When Osha turned to the dark side, it makes sense that the people with her wouldn't be like "you're making a bad choice" because like you said, they are dark siders themselves. But I still think the perspective of the show makes it seem more morally gray than it should be. Take Anakin for example. While he was descending to the dark side, it is made clear to the audience that it is bad, that he's making the wrong choice, and that there will be eventual consciences. I'm not saying that I want Osha's story to be the same as Anakins, just that there should have been a clear perspective. Instead, we got no specific pov, where there is no clear good or bad.
I also don't know what the show was trying to say. I thought it was that the Jedi are bad/wrong/corrupt, but if that was the point, they didn't even do a good job at it. I like the idea of the story being told from the Sith pov. If that was the point of view, It would have made more sense to show the Jedi in a bad way I guess. But they didn't even do that. The Obi Wan visible confusion meme is honestly the best way to describe me right now. I'm trying to understand. I'm trying to make it make sense, But I just don't get it.
The Acolyte can’t expect the audience to agree to a certain narrative while simultaneously not giving any concrete answers about the situation that incited said narrative. Exactly. Totally agree.
I was not trying to shame people for liking the show. If you got that impression from my comment then I'm very sorry. I'm totally fine with people enjoying it, I was just trying to explain why I don't like it. I only asked those questions to encourage further discussion, not to try to change people's minds.
I really appreciate you taking the time to dive into the wants and needs of the characters. I enjoyed reading your explanations and I think you did a great job. I agree with a lot of what you said about their wants and needs, but I still have to criticize the show for, in my opinion, handling the characters poorly. It seemed to me that their motivations and beliefs changed all the time without proper explanation. I think the show could have been much better if the characters, specifically the twins, had clear motives and personalities. But again, thanks for thoroughly analyzing the wants/needs. It gave me some things to think about.
I agree that good people are flawed, (who isn't,) and of course everyone has their own reasons/motivations for their actions, and they may think it's good or bad. But there is a definite good and bad. There is a right and wrong. Yes, people and conflicts are nuanced, but that doesn't change the fact that there is good and there is bad. This is my biggest problem with The Acolyte. It tries to make the Jedi bad and the Dark Side sympathetic and almost justified. Yeah, a Jedi can be flawed and make mistakes. The Jedi order is flawed. But the Jedi as a whole are the embodiment of light, and the sith have fallen from that light, into darkness. I believe nuanced stories can exist while still staying true to fundamental truths.
I can't say I was emotionally connected with any of the characters...but Sol came close, until they ruined him in the final episode. Qimir was kind of interesting, especially towards the end of the series, but it wasn't enough. Mae and Osha, who should have been the driving emotional force of the show, were completely flat to me.
Anyway, I really appreciate you comment! I'm not trying to make you or anyone change your opinions, I just wanted to share mine.
This show is honestly the most nonsensical, illogical, and unintelligent thing I have ever watched. It expects you to go along with the story even when it doesn't make sense or contradicts itself. It expects you to care about the characters when none of them have any strong or believable motive to root for or against and their entire personalities and characters change all the time. It expects you to care about the characters' lives, choices, and deaths when no attachment was built up between the audience and the characters, and it expects you to be excited for a second season to answer questions that should have been answered in season one. The Acolyte is the perfect example of bad writing. And many other things too, (like bad pacing, structure, dialog, acting, etc.) but most of all bad, no, awful writing.
Despite my concerns for the show in the beginning, I decided to give it a try and try my best to go in with an open mind. I stuck it out even when I personally hated it because I wanted to give it the chance to redeem itself. Did it? No, it did not. It just got worse.
If there was any doubt that this show was bad, this final episode was the last confirming nail in the coffin. Although it was not the worst episode in the season, it continued all the flaws and stupidity of the previous episodes and combined them into this mess of an ending that condemns the Jedi, praises the dark side, and preaches that you should be who you were meant to be, embrace your true evil self, do what you want because what you want is all that matters.
What happened to the Want vs Need? I thought that was a common thing in storytelling. The character's main "want" or "desire" is established in the beginning of the story, and by the end the character realizes what he/she truly "needs." The point is that the character starts off thinking he/she knows what he/she needs but it's actually just a want, then he/she discovers the actual need. It's about change, character growth, something The Acolyte doesn't have.
I took some notes while I watched this episode, but I'll spare you more of my complaints. There are so many ridiculous things and inconsistencies and outright idiotic writing in the episode and show that I could yell about, but I'll leave that to someone else. The main thing I want to talk about is the fact that this show seems to completely disregard what Star Wars is, and has always been, about: good vs evil, right vs wrong, selfless vs selfish. The Acolyte says "actually, there is no definite good or bad. The Jedi are bad because they won't let the sith do what they want. Sith aren't really bad, it's just a point of view. Sol is bad because he killed a creepy witch in what he thought was self defense and in defense of a child. It's good to be who you want to be even if that's evil, because there is no evil."
Also, do they really think that showing me Plagueis and Yoda will make me go "yay!" and get excited? The only reason they are there is to make fans think that there are connections to the rest of Star Wars and to try to get them to ignore the stupidness of it all. I'm sure many think the green lady was going to lie to Yoda, but I'm pretty sure they were implying that Yoda will be in on the secret too. Way to go, Disney, ruining another character.
I am not trying to hate on the show just for the sake of hating. Anyone here who knows me at all knows that I love Star Wars and always want it to succeed. If you like the show, more power to ya, but it was a big blow for me. I will always love Star Wars, but The Acolyte is not Star Wars to me.
To those of you who enjoyed it, (and everyone else, too) here are some questions I'd like you to consider, not to change your opinions, just to think some more about the show form a storytelling standpoint. But whatever you think, don't attack other people's options, okay? Everyone has the right to watch this show and say what they think about it.
What were the characters' wants and needs?
What was the moral of the story? Or, what was the story trying to say?
How do you think the show's themes and messages compare to those in other Star Wars projects?
Were you emotionally connected to any of the characters?
What did you think the main conflict of the show was, and how effectively was it resolved?
Here are my final rankings for each episode and the show as a whole.
Night 4/10
Lost/Found 3/10
Teach/Corrupt 2/10
Revenge/Justice 2/10
The Acolyte 1.5/10
Day 1/10
Destiny 1/10
Choice 1/10
Total 2/10
How I feel about The Acolyte:
(Please don't be offended. It's just a joke.)
I'll elaborate on my thoughts later.
I still feel like there was a smarter way to kill Sol than trying to kill all the Jedi, especially since he wanted to stay secret. It’s hard to take him seriously as a villain when he doesn’t seem smart. But I guess he had to show himself to give his monologue about “I just want to be free to do what I want, which is to be evil and kill people. The Jedi are evil because they won’t let me. Blah blah blah.”
I’ve been thinking…
If Darth Smiles didn’t want the Jedi or anyone to know his identity, why did he attack the Jedi? Why didn’t he just go kill the wookiee master then wait for Mea to show up? He could’ve killed her and gotten rid of the body, then the Jedi would’ve just thought Mea killed him and already left. They would’ve kept looking for her, and Darth Smiles would have stayed secret.
@Dark Lord of the Pith Haha. Never! Am I even making any sense? Lol😅
Oh boy...
I'm honestly laughing at how bad this show is right now. Now, I will give credit where credit is due: the fight scenes were actually quite good for the most part. The episode had some good tension and managed to keep me slightly interested. Also, I'm glad they killed off some main characters. It makes it feel more real and like there are actually STAKES. (It would have been more impactful if these characters had actually been likable/good characters. I was honestly happy to see them go so I wouldn't have to deal with their annoyingness.) This is definitely the best episode so far, which, granted, isn't saying much, but progress is progress!
I still hate the idea behind this show, but at least this episode was something. The other episodes were just...Boring? Nothing? Dull?
Okay, okay, I said something kinda positive, so now I'll complain.
The writing. THE WRITING. OH MY GOSH. And the pacing and transitions. They had the good action. they had the cool bad guy and the lightsabers, and what do they do? THEY MESS IS ALL UP WITH BAD WRITING AND PACING. Mae makes no sense. Osha is boring.
Why would Mae care if Osha is alive when last time she saw her, she told her she hates her and locked her in a room and (possibly) tried to kill her?
Why would she tell what's-his-face her intentions, even if those intentions made since? (which they don't.)
When she realized that her master had killed master what's-his-name, why didn't she still turn herself in? I'd feel safer with a bunch of Jedi than with Evil Emo Smile Guy?
How didn't she realize that what's-his-face was Evil Emo Smile Guy? Especially after she found the dead master? That was the most obvious thing ever.
What was Mae doing while the first part of the battle took place? she just stayed in the house, right? why didn't Evil Emo Smile Guy just go straight into the house? he just could have video-game forced pushed everyone out of his way.
When Jecki found Mae, why didn't Mae just surrender?
If the bugs are attracted to light, then why didn't they attack Osha and annoying guy in the woods?
First annoying guy says he will force Osha back to the ship if her has to, then she says "he'll kill them all" or something and he's like "okay. let's go back I guess." THIS IS NOT NEW INFORMATION. why did he just let her go back?
So Mae made her "change of heart" because of Osha, but when Osha refuses to accept her or whatever, she decides to LEAVE HER? Like she knows her master will either kill her or torture her or try to turn her evil right?
And how could she pretend to be Osha when she has that witch face mark thingy? And Sol couldn't feel that it was Mae?
Sol just left all those bodies there? the lightsabers too? So uncivilized.
In conclusion: Mae is dumb. Sol is dumb. Annoying guy is dumb. Why? BECAUSE THE WRITERS ARE DUMB.
I'm not even mad or depressed or annoyed right now, like I have been about this series. I am just in awe of how ridiculous and inconsistent it all is. I know there are people out there who have good stories to tell, and have the talent to tell those stories in a good way. We need those people. The world needs those people. Without them, we get stuff like this. What happened to the art of storytelling?
No worries. Thank you for such a thought-out reply.
I agree that evil centers around selfishness. In fact, I view Star Wars as the fight between selfishness and selflessness. That’s why I don’t like head-honcho lady’s quote. (Nice name btw.) I guess it could be explained in context because the witches don’t seem to believe in good or evil, but I still think it’s the wrong thing to put into star wars. If it was said by a pure villain, that could make sense, (it seems like something a villain would say,) but the show is trying to frame the witches as good, or “not bad.” Funnily enough, that line in the trailer is one of the first things that made me really skeptical of the show.
I’m all for something new and different. Like you mentioned, Andor was very different, so different that many thought it didn’t feel like Star Wars. Although I don’t like this new show, there are lots of ideas that I find interesting, like it being set in the High Republic, it being a mystery, and the one good, one bad twin idea. The actual exaction isn’t doing it for me though. But you’re right about story tellers needing to take chances, so I’ll try to be more forgiving, snd maybe eventually we’ll get the Revenge of the Sith of Disney Star Wars.
The creation of the twins is definitely one of the worst things about the show. Another reason why I hated episode 3….I don’t like using the word hate, but I think I do truly hate it. I really like the Plagueis novel too, and it seems so stupid that this lady could just create life.
Even though I don’t like the show, I’m glad to see so many people enjoying it and having fun with it. I’ll still try to go into each new episode with an open mind. I think the old saying “hope for the best and prepare for the worst” is my motto for the show going forward.
^Me too.
Andor. I do love the first two seasons of The Mandalorian though.
Wait…Andor came out in 2022?!?! That feels so long ago.
I do not like The Acolyte
There are many reasons for this. I think the dialogue is terrible, the acting is bland, and the plot is poorly written. This is not to say that all the dialogue is bad, or that every actor falls short, or even that every aspect of the plot is poor. However, from these first three episodes, the majority of it is, in my opinion, bad. I don’t only mean that it’s a bad Star Wars story, but just a bad story. Take it out of Star Wars, and I don’t believe it stands as a good, intriguing, narrative. There are so many contradictories, especially in what the characters say, and some of the plot makes me think think it was a first draft that nobody proof read.
This is just scratching the surface of why I think this show isn’t good, but none of this is the main cause for my utter dislike for this newest series.
For me, the acolyte is missing the one thing that is required for a Star Wars project: the core theme of Star Wars.
What is the core theme? Or themes? That depends on who you ask. But my interpretation of Star Wars has always been about the battle of light vs dark; good vs evil. This is certainly not the only theme, but I believe it is the core of Star Wars. Or, at least, it is for me.
Look at the core of the original trilogy. It’s the classic hero’s journey, with a boy becoming a hero and good rising above evil, and the prequels show the downfall of a hero and the consequences of his actions. Even the sequels, which I am not a huge fan of, consist of heroes and villains, light and dark.
The good guys don’t always have to win; happy endings shouldn’t be the only endings. But the core needs to be there. There is good and there is bad, and Star Wars is the story of hope, of light. I don’t mean that Star Wars can’t have stories about villains, (I love a good villain origin story,) but there still needs to be clear, for the most part, right and wrong.
I don’t like The Acolyte because it doesn’t have this core, the core that, to me, is Star Wars. Yes, this show has Jedi, who are good, and the main antagonist as well as the secret villain who are bad, but it seems so muddled and bland that every character is just kind of there. There is no hero’s journey, the are no compelling characters, whether good or bad, and the plot seems so far away from what a story of hope, light, redemption, and selflessness should look like.
Andor got a lot of criticism for “not feeling like Star Wars.” I actually love Andor, and I believe it expertly captures the core of Star Wars. The Acolyte is the complete opposite. In it, I see nothing of the Star Wars I love.
These are some of my thoughts. This is my interpretation, and why I don’t like this show. I’m glad so many of you are liking it, and I’ll continue to read your comments to see your perspectives. I think I will finish this show, partly because I like knowing what’s going on with Star Wars, in the SW universe and in our world, even when I don’t like it, and partly because I think it’d be unfair to the show to say all this bad stuff about it then not give it the chance to get better although I don’t think it will. Sorry for all the rambling. I could keep going, discussing each specific thing that I dislike or that I think is just plain dumb, (and trust me, there are a lot,) but this is too long already. Maybe later…
Also, @Infantry31st I won’t defend Ahsoka or say that it’s any better than The Acolyte, because honestly, it’s probably not. As you know, I was very excited for that show, and very positive about it. When it was all over, though, my opinions on it changed drastically…so much that I try to pretend it doesn’t exist. In the moment, it was fun to be excited. But that has all faded now, and I’m left with feelings of intense disappointment.
This. Is. Spectacular.