Forum:CT:Placement of Cyborg and similar links in Appearances

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Placement of Cyborg and similar links in Appearances

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The result of the debate was Oppose. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:24, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

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I recently started this Senate Hall thread concerning the placement of certain links in the Appearances section. My proposal is based on my own idea and advice received there.

The problem is that it is currently unclear as to where "cyborg" and similar subjects should be listed in the Appearances sections of media articles. It has been common practice to list "cyborg" in particular under sentient species, but this is inaccurate as cyborgs are not a sentient species. I propose adding the following to the Layout Guide section regarding Appearances to clarify the placement of "cyborg" and similar links:

Cyborg, Force-sensitive, and similar links relating to the classification of certain individuals shall be listed under the "Miscellaneous" header of Appearances.

Support

1. SilverSunbird (talk) 01:53, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

   I don't think a CT was necessarily needed here, but I guess it doesn't hurt Lewisr (talk) 01:58, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

2. YakovChaimTzvi (he/him/his) (talk) 02:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
3. Immi Thrax (she/her) (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'm not convinced this needs to be policy. It would belong more in the template's own documentation. MasterFred(talk) 00:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
2. With Fred here. JediMasterMacaroni^(Talk) 02:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
3. I also do not feel that this needs to be codified in this way. Feels like instruction creep to me. VergenceScatter (talk) 03:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
4. Supreme Emperor ^Holocomm 03:49, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
5. Per above. - JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 03:50, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
6. We can add this to the template's documentation or just start doing it. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:54, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
7. Per above, and especially Ruiz, it can be just be done without the need to codify now we have an agreement where it fits best Lewisr (talk) 04:04, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
8. Imperators II^(Talk) 07:44, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
9. OOM 224 17:48, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
10. Happy to agree that it goes in misc, but this should be documented somewhere other than policy. Ayrehead02 (talk) 11:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
11. Fred's reasoning takes the cake. Dentface (talk) 22:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
12. Great idea to bring consistency, but the Layout Guide update isn't the right place per above. So it's a kinda-sorta-oppose on a technicality ;) Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 11:46, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

• What exactly is going on here? The proposal, which talks about the contents of the Appearances section of OOU media pages, must be proposing that some wording be added to the Appearances section of the IU Layout Guide (a section which doesn't have anything to do with in-universe concepts like cyborgs or Force-sensitives) — because the OOU Layout Guide doesn't even have an "Appearances" section! For the record, and I do believe this would actually be the most appropriate solution here, not every community decision vote has to result in a policy wording change. Imperators II^(Talk) 08:19, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I thought a CT might be useful given the fact that no one seemed to know where this link should go. If it was the wrong decision, well, then it was the wrong decision, and if the admins see fit to end it, that's okay. SilverSunbird (talk) 00:52, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
• I don't even know why this needs to be done in practice. If you have a sentient Cyborg, then it goes under Sentient species. Beilert Valance is a sentient cyborg. So under Sentient species, we list *Human and **Cyborg under that. If it happened to be a cyborg creature, then it falls under Creatures. For example *Nek, then **Cyborg under that. - JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 04:59, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I think I like this option best, to be honest. MasterFred(talk) 08:37, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    • I don't think this approach makes a lot sense. Someone being Force-sensitive is similar to someone being a cyborg with respect to how it's a way to classify their biological traits, yet we wouldn't list "Force-sensitive" in conjunction with an individual's species in their infobox or in the Appearances section of an OOU media article, for example. Imperators II^(Talk) 09:08, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
      • I see a difference. Listing cyborg this way gives the reader additional information. A Kaleesh appears in this media? Oh, it's a Kaleesh cyborg. That's a physical difference. Their body has been altered from their species' natural appearance. This can also help readers identify if the cybernetics make the species unclear from a visual standpoint. None of this really applies to being Force-sensitive. MasterFred(talk) 09:16, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
        • But how would you handle there being multiple species of cyborgs in the same source? I've always put it in technology under cybernetics since it isn't itself a species, but that or misc make more sense to me. Ayrehead02 (talk) 11:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
          • Extremely per Ayre, actually. It's not like a situation where cyborgs of multiple different species appear in the same source is that hard to imagine - we wouldn't list "cyborg" under Rodian AND Twi'lek AND Zabrak in the App template, would we? Imperators II^(Talk) 11:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
            • I'm also wary to place anything that's not a sentient species in the sentient species section. At the end of the day, cyborgs are not a sentient species. JediMasterMacaroni^(Talk) 02:51, 24 November 2021 (UTC)