Forum:CT:Foreign language link issues

Forums > Consensus track > CT:Foreign language link issues

Issue 1

Recently, the German Star Wars wiki, Jedipedia, was moved to Wikia by its founder in violation of their site consensus (and would have been a violation of our own consensus rules as well). A large group of users from Jedipedia formed a new site at jedipedia.net to house the community that had been forcibly displaced. This new site still controls the Twitter account and interlanguage bot from the original Jedipedia.

Basically, all they've lost is a .de domain name and some idiots who were clueless enough to move to Wikia. The situation seems fairly straightforward, but I wanted to have something to point to when Wikia gets pissed at us for fixing it. So, without further ado:

• Additional issue added per IRC chat. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 20:45, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Change German links to Jedipedia.net

1. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 19:31, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
2. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 19:36, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
3. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:36, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
4. Korsa3 19:38, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
5. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 19:41, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
6. Gulomi Jomesh 19:46, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
7. —Tommy 9281 Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 19:49 UTC
8. Nahdar Vebb 19:52, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
9. ARC-Captain Fordo 19:59, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

   GAR 20:00, June 29, 2011 (UTC) (Vote struck per policy: Less than 50 main namespace edits; also technically a sig policy violation. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 21:23, June 29, 2011 (UTC))

10. C-3P0 20:03, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
11. Master Jonathan — ^{Jedi Council Chambers} _{Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 20:04 UTC}
12. Darth Pandora^{Tell me more...} 20:07, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

    Savage Oppress 20:14, June 29, 2011 (UTC) (Vote struck per policy: Less than 50 main namespace edits. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 21:23, June 29, 2011 (UTC))

13. Kilson^{(Let's have a chat)} 20:16, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
14. As a matter of fact, naturally. Tyber ^{J. Kenobi's Droid} 20:19, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
15. Definitely. Corellian Premier^{All along the watchtower} 21:06, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
16. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 01:23, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
17. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:37, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
18. Way to go, dear German webmaster. 1358 ^(Talk) 10:17, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
19. Ofcourse. –Tm_T ^(Talk) 14:14, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
20. NAYAYEN 16:21, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
21. Karohalva 18:02, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

    Boba Fett123 19:49, June 30, 2011 (UTC) (Vote struck as per WP:SIV. 1358 ^(Talk) 20:05, June 30, 2011 (UTC))

22. CC7567 ^(talk) 20:06, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
23. Jedi-Meister ^»!?« 08:49, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Issue 2

This leaves the question of how to fix these links. Wikia has told us in no uncertain terms that they do not respect our community's freedom of association. They invoked a nebulous interpretation of their terms of use in reverting an easy fix for this issue. Consequently, this decision remains unfulfilled as well.

There are two obvious fixes for this problem:

1. Remove the [[de:articlename]] and [[fr:articlename]] strings from the bottom of every article and replace them with an ==In other languages== section below ==External links== specifically for the French and German links. Prohibit linking to the Wikia-based sites for these languages.
   • Pros: Removes all links to wikis we have not chosen to associate with. Works with or without Javascript. In no way violates the Wikia terms of use.
   • Cons: Not as pretty as a sidebar link.
2. Add a second French and German link to the sidebar via Javascript.
   • Pros: Prettier than an external link section.
   • Cons: Still provides attention to the sites we have explicitly chosen not associate with. Effectively surrenders to Wikia tyranny. Links could be broken if one of the competing languages moves a page. Won't work if someone has Javascript turned off or if Wikia caching is acting up like it does about 30% of the time. Wikia claims we're allowed to do this now but could easily decide to interpret the exact same terms of use in a completely different way if they don't like the result. Wikia could add javascript code to deliberately break this fix.

So, another vote:

Replace interlanguage links to wrong wikis with external links to right wikis

1. Darth Culator ^(Talk) 19:31, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
2. Gulomi Jomesh 19:46, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
3. By putting all the interwiki links inside a template, it's easy to improve their design so that they look (at least in the Wikia skin) better than at the moment where there are just plain text links; eg. by adding a background color and border. Furthermore, all users with the monobook skin are still free to change their personal javascript to add the interwiki link to the sidebar; I don't see a violation of the TOS in that. And of course, the HotCat bot can be easily be updated so it automatically changes the interwiki links to the new format. --C-3P0 20:03, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
4. Per C-3P0. GT has a point below, but the paragraph-long list of cons above is enough to turn me off from that option. Master Jonathan — ^{Jedi Council Chambers} _{Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 20:06 UTC}
5. althought its the technically less elegant version, i think it is the more sucessfull version. Darth Pandora^{Tell me more...} 20:07, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
6. Nahdar Vebb 20:10, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
7. Kilson^{(Let's have a chat)} 20:19, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
8. Agreed. Corellian Premier^{All along the watchtower} 21:06, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
9. Korsa3 23:54, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
10. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 01:23, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
11. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:37, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

    Neos1999 15:44, June 30, 2011 (UTC) (Vote struck per policy: User has less than 50 mainspace edits -- —TK-999 ^{(Rise of the Empire)} 15:56, June 30, 2011 (UTC))

12. NAYAYEN 16:21, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
13. CC7567 ^(talk) 20:08, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Add secondary sidebar links

1. Having one section for German and French and another for other languages seems unnecessarily confusing. This method at least keeps them all together. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 19:36, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
2. Per GT and whatever I have said previously elsewhere. Huh, option descriptions are heavily biased. –Tm_T ^(Talk) 14:14, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

I'll support any sufficient decision on this matter. Tyber ^{J. Kenobi's Droid} 20:19, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Issue 2.1. Or something like that.

Just to clarify, the above vote was actually for moving only the French and German links to a new section in the article. Some of the votes seem to be suggesting moving them all. That would give all the advantages from above, plus it would keep all the interwiki links in one place and avoid confusion. So if we add the new section, do we do it only for French and German links or all languages? Note that this does not affect the vote for issue 2.

Move all other language links to new section

1. Green Tentacle ^(Talk) 20:45, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
2. Gulomi Jomesh 20:48, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
3. Nahdar Vebb 20:48, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
4. Agreed. Corellian Premier^{All along the watchtower} 21:06, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
5. Now that I think of it, this might actually be easier to do with a bot than just the two languages. It would also let us get rid of the interwiki {{FA}} template and associated javascript hacks. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk) 22:18, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
6. Master Jonathan — ^{Jedi Council Chambers} _{Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 23:51 UTC}
7. Korsa3 23:54, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
8. Aye. Jonjedigrandmaster ^(Talk) 01:23, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
9. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:37, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
10. Thought that was obvious. Kilson^{(Let's have a chat)} 02:31, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
11. It's definitely better to have all interwiki links in the same place. --C-3P0 13:05, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
12. My vote is separate from the issue 2, and is depending on the results of said vote. IF we go this way, then let's do it properly. –Tm_T ^(Talk) 14:14, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
13. NAYAYEN 16:21, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
14. CC7567 ^(talk) 20:08, June 30, 2011 (UTC)