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This is the talk page for the article "Battle of Muunilinst."

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ContradictionsEdit

There seems to be some contradictions within Star Wars wiki. This page lists the Battle of Dac as the Battle taking place after it. But Battle of Dac lists this as the battle after it. So if you keep clicking "battle after," you just go in circles. The pages list Dac as 22 BBY and this one as 21.7 BBY, but List of battles lists them both as 21.6. Anyone feel able to clear this out?-LtNOWIS 04:15, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Sounds like a victim of the ambiguity of the Battle after and Battle before format. I personally think that Previous battle and Next battle would make a lot more sense. – Aidje talk 04:36, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Sounds to me to be a consequence of having multiple battles shown simultaneously. --Death Regis 04:39, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
      • I didn't think of that, and I admit it is a possibility, but I still hold to my ambiguity theory. The current format always leaves me thinking "Wait... this is the battle after that one, or that's the battle after this one...?" – Aidje talk 04:42, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
        • Yes, alot of battles have been held simultaneously. Any who watched Ep III can see that there were 5 going on at the same time. A rewording to the format is still needed. -- Riffsyphon1024 07:51, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
          • Arrrgggghhh... this is becoming so annoying. What we need to do is make sure we know when each battle began as that is what we go by, not how they show them in the movie. For example in Ep III, we see the beginning of one battle and then the then end of another, so in that case, the second came first. So when we finally know the correct order, we should have that in the List of battles and then we can correct the Before and After problems, but then this won't work with all these going on at the same time. -- Riffsyphon1024 19:12, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
            • I say it's convoluted enough that it should be left out of the info boxes. A lot of battles were happening simultaneously, and sometimes the order of battles simply isn't clear. Besides, if we add a new battle, people don't always think to adjust the text of other battles to reflect it. For instance, when a Battle of Derra IV article comes up, both the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Hoth will need to be fixed - and that's one of the *better* known EU battles. Wait until we try to place things the Siege of Trasemene! JSarek 02:40, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Is the Neimoidian in the control room with San Hill supposed to be Gilramos Libkath? I've read that it's Nute Gunray but it's Gilramos' hat.

  • Gilramos is dead by then, Hyperspace avatars says it's Gunray, so I dunno.--Rune Haako 22:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Ventress as a commanderEdit

Ventress lead the confederacy forces in space. Seing as we included anakin as a commander in space, would it not make sense to also have Ventress?

Amount of AcclamatorsEdit

the amount of Acclamators that fought in this battle is in the hundreds, as said by the New Essential chronology -SWF

  • "Hundreds of assault ships" might suggest hundreds of Acclamator-class ships, but by no means requires such an interpretation. --McEwok 02:16, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
  • The FULL quote is this:
San Hill, the arrogant chairman of the InterGalactic Banking Clan, had worked to make his homeworld of Munnilinst an unassailable castle keep. The Republic countered with sheer numbers, sending hundreds of assault ships, each one groaning from the weight of troopers and war machines. Many vessels reached the surface only as smoldering hulks; others found themselves cut off from their drop zones, forced to make landings behind enemy lines.
If there were only about a dozen actual Acclamators, and most of these "assault ships" were small landers or gunships like you minimalists want to believe, then how could this attack have been one that made use of "sheer numbers?" Oh wait, I forgot, 3 million troops in a galaxy of several million planets is big to you people. JimRaynor55 15:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Some people have suggested they used non-cloned troops, the Imperial Army of the Clone Wars. -LtNOWIS 06:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Still, this doesn't take away from the fact that ITW:AOTC and SW:CL talks of "millions of divisions undergoing intense performance evaluations" at the start of the war in the Kaminoan clone program. And that's not even a fixed number, so you'd think the "only fiction" or "just fantasy" people would be more than happy about this. Then again, it looks like "goalpost-moving" has become as sport these days. VT-16 11:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • JimRaynor55 - if Muunilinst is a planet, how can it be an "unassailable castle keep"? Quite apart from anything else, it was successfully assailed during the Battle of Muunilinst. This is vague, rhetorical prose, giving a sense of the battle, not precise figures... but we do have precise figures, too: specific evidence that the GAR had 1.2 million clone troopers in the field at this stage in the war....
  • VT-16 - there's a quote saying "millions of divisions undergoing intense performance evaluations"? Seriously? I was under the impression there was just this line: "The first batch of clone divisions are ready for deployment; millions more are undergoing intensive performance evaluations"; and the meaning of "millions more" in this context is disputed - does it mean "clone divisions", or is "clones" silently understood? Other, more explicit, canon evidence, indicates that the Grand Army of the Republic had a muster strength only three million clones, or... um, eighty Corps and 320 brigade-analog Legions. The Division isn't a unit formation in the GAR at all, which means that "clone divisions" could mean something other than "multi-regiment troop formations".
  • I'm sorry if those replies seem frank. I'm entirely in favour of the page acknowledging the fact that some fans think Muunilinst should be really big; but it should also stress the highly inferential nature of the evidence they cite, and the opposing position. --McEwok 12:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

"JimRaynor55 - if Muunilinst is a planet, how can it be an "unassailable castle keep"

It's a forterss world, and the Republic sent a lot of forces to counter that -SWF

  • I remember a cut scene from ANH where Luke mentions to Han that there are worlds more heavily defended than the DS (he mentions Sullust as being one of them, this name would later be used in ROTJ). In other words, fortress-worlds built up by the Empire. They're also mentioned in the EU, most notably Bastion. VT-16 20:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

There are also CIS fortress worlds. Sullust and Sluis Van were CIS fortress worlds -SWF

What kind of assault ships? Edit

Please list the specific quote that claims assault ships other than Acclamators participated in the assault. Otherwise, I'm changing it back. VT-16 07:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC) "The Republic countered with sheer numbers, sending hundreds of assault ships, each one groaning from the weight of troopers and war machines. Many vessels reached the surface only a smouldering hulks; others found themselves cut off from their drop zones, forced to make landings behind enemy lines"The New Essential Chronology, p61. Not that it's definitive either way, though it does imply there was more to the battle than witnessed in the cartoon, which may mean other vessels on another part of the planet - Kwenn 15:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Perhaps 'assualt ships' also means LAATs and those freighter-things the ARC troopers had. Hundreds of Acclamators would be every single Acclamator the Republic had. Unit 8311 16:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
    • No it wouldn;t. The Republic had a minimum of 1012 at the time, plus fleets of Dreadnaughts and other transports. Kuralyov 19:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
      • How do you know they had 1012? Even if they did, they would be needed on other planets. Remember, there were at least several battles raging at the time of Muunilist. They would also leave some of those Acclamators at Coruscant, as to not leave it unguarded, so if you take all these variables into account it seems highly unlikely there were so many at Muunilist, and anyway at this early part of the war Acclamators were their main capital ship. At the max I'd say fifty. Unit 8311 07:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
        • They had 12 at Geonosis, and recieved 1000 more immediately after the battle, per the SWRPG. Even if there were 200 at Muunilinst, we only kniow of three other battles ongoing at the same time (Mon Cal, Hypori, Dantooine) where they were used, so it'd still be plenty to cover it. And Acclamators were transports, they wouldn't be used for guarding Coruscant. Kuralyov 22:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
          • Venator-class Star Destroyers were also transports, and they guarded Coruscant. Okay, I just think the Chronology just got it plain WRONG and the people who made it didn't watch the cartoon. The cartoon, although rubbish, is the definitive source for how many Acclamators there were. And the highest number shown was just twenty. If there really was such a large number, they wouldn't have bothered with an invasion; they would have just bombard the planet, reduced it to rubble, and go home. Unit 8311 07:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

"If there really was such a large number, they wouldn't have bothered with an invasion; they would have just bombard the planet, reduced it to rubble, and go home." Not true. They were still a republic, meaning there would be a large backlash to that kind of thing. That is like saying "America doesn't have so many nukes. If they did, they would have just nuked Iraq and be done with it."

  • just think the Chronology just got it plain WRONG and the people who made it didn't watch the cartoon. The cartoon, although rubbish, is the definitive source for how many Acclamators there were.
No, it isn't. The movies do not show everything that happens, and no-one objects when additional battle-info is added from books, when making articles like the Battle of Hoth or the battle of Endor. Not everything is shown on-screen. VT-16 21:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Not true. They were still a republic, meaning there would be a large backlash to that kind of thing. That is like saying "America doesn't have so many nukes. If they did, they would have just nuked Iraq and be done with it."

They did bombardment on other Separatist worlds, and anyway they caused much senseless destruction in the city. If they did do bombardment, Palpatine would have covered it up. And besides, the NEC is from an in-universe perspective, according to this wiki. Not all information from an in-universe source can be treated as solid gold fact. Look at all the stuff our own historical docuements get wrong sometimes. Unit 8311 13:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Amount of fightersEdit

by my calculations using this wiki, 200 Acc assualt cruisers would mean nearly 30,000 fighters? doesn't this seem a huge amount? Jedi Dude 15:52, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, in RL terms, the German Messerschmitt Bf 109 had 35,000 planes built in total. That was one model, for one nation, in WWII. The battle of Muunilinst was also a global affair, so it's not farfetched. VT-16 16:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • well i suppose so, yes, yes this makes sense. thank you. Jedi Dude 16:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
      • You're welcome. :) VT-16 18:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Besides the fact, Acc Is DON'T carry any fighters. Any fighters at Muunilinst must have come from Acc IIs or some other varient.--Jerry 14:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Unless they were modified Accs, and besides i still am yet to find a source saying Acc don't carry fighters so why speculate they don't unless there is a source you know of? Jedi Dude 18:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
      • What is an Acc II but a modified Acc I? The source is the the AotC ICS, ther is simply nowhere to put fighters aboard that craft unless it is heavily modified (i.e no longer an Acc I but an Acc II or some unknown variant thereof). I'm not suggesting changing the article because there's no canon sources naming this ship, but it is not an Acc I.--Jerry 04:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Looking at the screencaps I posted on the Acc-II talk page, there is a large hangar-opening under the vessels, with a possible smaller opening inside the cavity, where Anakin and his squadrons fly out of (conjecture since it's dark inside the main bay and the opening used by the fighters has dark surroundings). These ships could also be used exclusively as carriers, foregoing the storage of tanks and artillery. VT-16 16:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

CategoryEdit

Erm, seeing as the page is locked, and cant be edited, can a SysOps change the category from "battles" to Category:Battles of the Clone Wars. Many thanks. Darth Abeonis Sith Council (Sith Campaign) 21:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Question Edit

How would you (and everybody else) feel if I put links on the episode/chapter pages to watch the videos without downloading anything or buying anything. Please comment on this.

Good article Edit

I wanted to nominate this article for good article. What do you guys think? -Darthtyler

  • Anybody? -Darthtyler
    • Give it citations and it'll be fine. Unit 8311 18:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
      • I'll try. -Darthtyler
        • What exactly are citations? I thought they were those [1] things, but I'm not sure. -Darthtyler
          • Yeah, that's what I meant. They're also called references. Unit 8311 20:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Participants Edit

Should the participants section be got rid of? Unit 8311 19:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Kenobi a High General at this time Edit

I think Obi-Wan was a member of the Council by this time. I believe this because he was on the Council when Ki-Adi was making his report to them about General Grievous and the Battle of Hypori, which was concurrent with the Battle of Munnilinst. So unless Kenobi had just been promoted which I highly doubt I'm sure he was a High General.Councilor 'Rumilee 13:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

someone made a mistake Edit

if you look at concurrent, it says hypori happened at the same time. then click on hypori. this battle happened before it now.--70.253.83.195 00:30, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

ContinuityEdit

Wait so this happened 4 months into the war when Anakin was a Padawan. Yet 7 weeks into the war he's a Jedi and has a Padawan. Could someone explain. Wetrosky (talk) 03:57, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

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