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Name, again but with new information from Episode IX[edit source]

The title of this page has been controversial since the reaction to his first name got us amending the naming policy so that we call him Darth Sidious because he "self-identifies" as that apparently in his fall in Return of the Jedi. But the movie never called him Sidious, just the Emperor. And now, he returned in The Rise of Skywalker and everyone called him Palpatine, including himself. Well, he wanted to possess Rey to become "Empress Palpatine." Now that he's returned and that self-identifying thing was made about his death in Episode VI, can we re-evaluate the whole Sidious vs. Palpatine debate? SeanWheeler (talk) 05:30, December 23, 2019 (UTC)

Please point to one time he referred to himself as "Palpatine." I'll wait. GokūBlack10 (Talk) 07:59, December 23, 2019 (UTC)

"I am all the Sith!"
Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Sidious

He recognises that both he and Rey are Palpatines. He identifies himself as Galactic Emperor of the Final Order, and "all the Sith." He heads the Sith Eternal as a Dark Lord of the Sith. Sith Eternal>Final Order.
Therefore, The article on the human male born Sheev Palpatine, [who was (to himself): the Sith Lord Darth Sidious, Galactic Emperor of the Final Order and leader of the Sith Eternal, the Sith Order of the time], should be named "Darth Sidious". - - -CIS roundel.svg OOM 224 ༼༽{talk}༼༽ 10:32, December 23, 2019 (UTC)

Luke identifies him as Darth Sidious in the Last Jedi, and he made it clear in the Rise of Skywalker and in his mysterious message (while in fortnite, still considered canon) that he isn't in the same position that he was in during the Imperial era. The Final Order and the Sith Eternal are openly Sith Organizations with it being clear that the Palpatine Persona or any other charades aren't being used.--Vohki (talk) 05:01, December 25, 2019 (UTC)

Do we actually know if the Emperor is permanently dead?[edit source]

Reading the page, it says he was finally killed, destroyed once and for all, permanently destroyed, and so forth, yet is he truly dead? Is there any source confirming this is his absolute final death? He was thought to be permanently dead before and yet here we are with him reborn and alive. So until we have solid confirmation he isn't coming back, I suggest removing any mentions of permanent death from the page. LesterR2-D2 (talk) 07:51, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

That's not how death is handled on this wiki. If it was, we wouldn't list anyone as truly dead because there is always the possibility they can return in some fashion. For now, Darth Sidious is dead once and for all. If, in the unlikely event he is revived again, the information can be edited to reflect that. But we shouldn't be editing pages to account for potential future what-ifs. GokūBlack10 (Talk) 07:54, December 26, 2019 (UTC)
We don't say Han Solo is permanently dead once and for all. He is just dead. Why is there a necessity to add permanency to the second death of the Emperor. It is far more accurate to say he is dead than he is dead once and for all unless you have a source saying, exactly, that he is dead once and for all. Saying he is dead once and for all is essentially a lie without a source, while saying he is dead is more true and accurate. LesterR2-D2 (talk) 08:01, December 26, 2019 (UTC)
I bet you can find a source that says he was dead once and for all the first time with his ROTJ death and yet here we are, essentially proving that saying once and for all doesn't mean anything. The best thing we can do is just simply say he is dead, there's no need for dramatics or permanency, just state the facts --Lewisr (talk) 14:21, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

“In secret”??[edit source]

The article says Palpy was initiating a Sith ritual IN SECRET, as he was trying to convince Rey to kill him. The thing is, how could that be argued as secret? Sure, he didn't explain there was a ritual, but he clearly tells Rey that her killing him is all he needs to enter her body and keep ruling the Galaxy. In my opinion, it was kind of dumb to tell her since it would have been much simpler to let her kill him, but since he tells her, there's no SECRET anymore. Shouldn't we change that? Unsigned comment by 2A01:E34:ED17:2D30:6126:DC3F:C858:FCB0 (talk • contribs).

  • I've removed it --Lewisr (talk) 17:31, December 28, 2019 (UTC)

Full Plan?[edit source]

So, what exactly was Palpatine's plan for using Snoke to corrupt Ben Solo if he ultimately wanted Rey to inherit the Sith throne? Is that ever addressed in the visual dictionary or something? What was his plan for Kylo Ren? 22:49, December 28, 2019 (UTC)

  • The visual guide says that Snoke's existence was used as a test (the final part of said test being his killing of Snoke) for Ren, Snoke tested his worthiness and capacity to inherit the Sith legacy. It says the Sith Eternal designed Snoke to act as a final crucible, to groom and mold Ren into a master of attack and cunning --Lewisr (talk) 22:59, December 28, 2019 (UTC)
    • Yeah I got that, but I'm curious as to why that was the plan when Palpatine wanted Rey to inherit the Sith legacy, not Ben. He told Kylo he would give him the fleet if he killed Rey, but he always intended for Rey to be led to him and take over. Do we ever find out what the endgame for Ren was? Riptide240 (talk) 23:09, December 28, 2019 (UTC)
      • I imagine it would come down to either serving Rey or be disposed of, unless he went through with what Rey wouldn't and kill Palpatine --Lewisr (talk) 23:16, December 28, 2019 (UTC)
        • OK yeah cus I was really confused as to why he would go through all of that to corrupt Ben and train him as a worthy Sith only to have Rey be the Empress. So I'd agree with you: either it was all a revenge jab at the Skywalker line for killing him (turn their descendent to the dark side and then kill him), or he intended for Kylo Ren to be a powerful Sith Lord alongside Empress Rey. Riptide240 (talk) 20:55, December 29, 2019 (UTC)
          • It is a bit confusing, but who knows how the mind of a twisted practically dead Dark Lord of the Sith works! I see those are the most likely options for Kylo at the end. Hopefully something, maybe even the novelization, will go into it a bit more, or if they plan to explore how Palpatine did come back then we can hopefully get the answers --Lewisr (talk) 00:12, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
            • YEah, thanks for helping me out on that one! Riptide240 (talk) 01:11, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
              • No worries, glad to help! --Lewisr (talk) 01:17, December 30, 2019 (UTC)

New image of Palpatine from TROS[edit source]

Found it here: https:// www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/fbmdf6/still_of_palpatine_in_tros_more_confirmation_hes/

I'm unfamiliar with the source, but it's recent and the highest quality image of Palpatine in TROS I've seen yet. I would upload it myself (with the necessary size alterations for use in the infobox), but my account doesn't have the permissions to do so. Cheers. Phazon Xenomorph (talk) 11:20, March 5, 2020 (UTC)

It has already been uploaded in two forms. It was used in this article's infobox for a short while but naturally, someone objected to it. --Potsk (talk) 22:18, March 5, 2020 (UTC)

Main Image[edit source]

Why are we using an OT picture for the infobox when we have perfectly good ST images that are suitable? It's better if we use the latest images of him since they're more representative of his most recent appearance. Unsigned comment by MyNamesFurii (talk • contribs).

  • I agree. The current image doesn't seem proper, now that we have one of Darth Sidious from his latest appearance in canon. JRT2010 (talk) 03:03, March 8, 2020 (UTC)
  • I also agree. We use an image of Luke from the sequels in his Canon page, Sidious rates the same treatment. Phazon Xenomorph (talk) 01:35, March 18, 2020 (UTC)
  • Is there a reason we don't have Anakin's face just before his death in Return of the Jedi as a main image in that case? I don't know, it seems a little different given that this photo is actually post-mortem and technically depicting a different body to all his other appearances. (User:JediStranger92)
    • Anakin Skywalker effectively "died" in Episode III when he became Darth Vader, hence why his spirit reflects his appearance from III instead of VI, according to George Lucas or Dave Filoni. JRT2010 (talk) 16:07, July 1, 2020 (UTC)
      • That's just it- if we aren't using pictures after Anakin metaphorically died, does it not break precedent to use a main image of Sidious after he literally died? His appearance in TROS is in a different body to all prior appearances. JediStranger92
        • Well, given that Anakin actually reverted to his pre-fall EPIII form as a Force ghost, it can be said, that "consistency" didn't broke: both Sidious and Anakin have, in a sense, photos of their final appearances. Bests, --Seryo93 (talk) 14:59, July 6, 2020 (UTC)

I suggest a temporary full protection lockdown[edit source]

Since leaked info keeps getting added to this article, I suggest that we put a temporary full protection lockdown until the novelization is officially released on March 17th as we have done with Rey's father to prevent further edits adding in leaked information. --Benjay2345 (talk) 09:49, March 8, 2020 (UTC)

There is no "leaked information". The novelization had a limited release. --Potsk (talk) 01:35, March 9, 2020 (UTC)
There is. The novel hasn't been released, doesn't matter if it had a limited release. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:38, March 9, 2020 (UTC)

How about keep the article’s name as Sheev Palpatine[edit source]

I strongly suggest that article’s name should the original canon article because, despite his fall to the dark side and name change, he was still known as “Sheev Palpatine” across the entire galaxy, unless you believe this name was an alias. Unsigned comment by Ryker11 (talk • contribs).

  • Please see item 2 of this section of our Naming policy. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes, like this ~~~~. Thank you. Imperators II(Talk) 20:47, March 13, 2020 (UTC)

2.2 Updated with new information[edit source]

On page 26 of the novelization of the The Rise of Skywalker, Kylo Ren mentions that he knows that Palpatine "built the First Order". Should Sidious be listed as affiliated with the FO in the Chronological and political information section?

I would suggest putting First Order in affiliations with (mastermind, secretly) or similar qualifier. "Supreme Leader" Snoke (whom Kylo Ren overthrew in TLJ), indeed, was, in fact, "not the apex of the First Order's dark side pyramid" and was "subservient to the darker force" (that was Sidious). Still, the First Order (with some exceptions, which came to suspect that Snoke was leader only in name, but not a de-facto leader) "was unaware of Snoke's true origins and their ultimate purpose in the form of the Contingency". This is comparable to CIS (of which Sidious' ultimate leadership is marked as (secretly) in an article about CIS) and contrasted with the Galactic Empire (in which everyone knew, that their leader was Emperor Palpatine, even if not all knew his Sith identity or full name). BUT: secret leadership of CIS is shown here without any qualifiers, which makes it difficult to add qualifier to a possible First Order affiliation (and BTW, his affiliation with the Sith Order was also a secret, not only in the Fall of the Republic era - for obvious, at least prior to the Great Jedi Purge, reasons -, but even in the Imperial era, as he "took great pains to hide his capabilities"). Any thoughts? --Seryo93 (talk)

-I agree! Any objections? ABroOfPlo Unsigned comment by ABroOfPlo (talk • contribs).

  • There is no need for (secretly) or anything of that sort in the affiliations field of a character infobox. I suppose a note such as that on Armitage Hux's affiliation with the Resistance is acceptable for individuals with a short list of affiliations, but with people like Darth Nox and Anakin Skywalker, there are simply too many affiliations that only selected ones are listed. Adding qualifiers would clutter the infobox and not enhance the article. In the case of Sidious, simply listing the First Order should suffice. - - -CIS roundel.svg OOM 224 ༼༽{talk}༼༽ 21:34, March 19, 2020 (UTC)

The True Purpose Behind Palpatine's "Ritual"[edit source]

The TROS novelization mentions on several occasions that Palpatine's true aim is to take Rey's body for himself, not merge their spirits. The relevant passages are on pages 211, 219, and 230. It goes into detail about how Palpatine is about to use the same essence transfer power he learned from Plagueis on Rey; Rey was always considered a "perfect" vessel; Palpatine's thoughts regarding Rey are possessive; and finally, Rey contrasts Palpatine's desire to use her body as a host with the ability to open herself up to the Force and let the Jedi act through her. I believe this information should be reflected in the article. --ElokQuintly (talk) 03:50, April 24, 2020 (UTC)

  • Feel free to correct this, just remember to source it to the novelization! --Lewisr (talk) 03:53, April 24, 2020 (UTC)
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