the 1st paragraph seems a little redundantJustinGann 05:48, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Should there not be a massive spoiler warning above the Dun Moch page? I've spent the whole night casually cruising Wookieepedia, avoiding all pages with the spoiler warning since I'm only halfway through Sacrifice, and then this unmarked page slaps me in the face with what I'm assuming to be the huge climax of this book. C'mon people, that sucks. Edit: There, I did it myself. Sheesh.
D.M in Empire Strikes Back[]
This might be too esoteric an issue, but hey, this *is* the Internet.
In the Boomerang Effect section of the Dun Moch page, it says Vader's usage of Dun Moch against Luke backfired because it made him (Luke) so angry. The only two apparantly relevant things Vader says (according to some random copy of the script I found online) are "Obi Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear... now release your anger." and later, after the hand amputation, when he tells Luke, "No. I am your father." (do I need Spoiler warning for that?)
The first one is ambiguous to me; did it make Luke angry, or did it calm him down? Is it even a Dun Moch taunt? It isn't very clever or emotional. The script goes on to say Luke immediately reigned his anger in. However...
I just noticed in Shadows of the Empire it says Darth Vader believed that Luke would have defeated him at Cloud City, had Vader not taunted Luke with his true parentage, which replaced Luke's anger at Ben's death with confusion and grief. This suggests that the initial taunt did make Luke more angry, and the second taunt saved Vader's life. But that isn't quite what the movie shows, is it?
Interpretation 1) Vader's motivation was to make Luke give into his anger. (He presumably didn't care if Luke ended up killing him as a result.) So the first Dun Moch instance ("release your anger") actually caused Luke to control his anger (if my assessment that Luke calmed down is correct). The second instance ("I am your father") caused Luke to leap down the shaft. Presumably both Dun Moch attacks were intended to win Luke over to the Dark Side, and both were a failure. So this article should reflect that the Dun Moch failed not because it made Luke so angry he started beating Vader, but because Luke saw through the taunts and chose the Light Side. But this interpretation disagrees with SotE.
Interpretation 2) Vader intended to defeat Luke in order to subdue him. The first Dun Moch instance was a failure because it made Luke angry and put Vader in danger (if the SotE account that Luke got angry and was about to win is correct). Then the second Dun Moch instance had the intended effect of subduing Luke, and saving Vader. In this case the article would show two different outcomes of Dun Moch, and even how well Vader was able to adapt his usage of Dun Moch. But this interpretation disagrees with how (I view) Luke reacted in the movie (although I admit I need to see it again with this question in mind.) Also, while Vader ultimately intended to freeze Luke in carbonite, I don't think the Dun Moch can be considered a failure, because it did cause Luke to give up the fight completely.
I'm mixed about which interpretation I like better. I originally liked #1, but now I think there's more evidence for #2. Is there evidence that Vader tried to corrupt Luke rather than just subdue and freeze him? And I'm pretty sure we're suppose to view this particular battle as a defeat for Luke, not for Vader--I think I've heard that it's one of his trials, but not his final trial. Anybody have another interpretation?
Going forward, I think we need to reconcile ESB with SotE in terms of Vader's intention and what effect "release your anger" had on Luke. Then we can figure out exactly how many Dun Moch taunts there were and how successful each one was. --Jdimpson 05:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Does D.M. really include Objects throwing?[]
- As far as i know, Insider 62 is the only source of the ability D. M. But does it really include Objects throwing?
- Main article in Insider 62, in "The Empire Strikes Back" section of "Through the Saga" part: "His technique lacks the advanced polish of study with lifelong masters, but he wields his Form V power with utter confidence against Luke Skywalker, masterfully taunting Skywalker as he seeks to dominate his spirit in the evil Sith tradition of dun möch."
- An Image Caption in Insider 62: "Vader bludgeons Luke Skywalker with heavy machinery during their duel, a graphic demonstration of Form V’s focus on raw power in the hands of the Sith."
- So, it looks like object throwing has nothing to do with D.M. Please kindly comment. Darth Kevinmhk 14:35, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Monkey Island[]
Could this be a reference to Insult Swordfighting? .... 07:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Pretty obvious reference! —Unsigned comment by 80.224.150.33 (talk • contribs).
how to write it in Aurabesh[]
Aurabesh doesn't have a letter representing the sound "Ö"... Gustafar 16:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- It probably wasn't written originally in standard Aurbesh, and besides, the latin alphabet does exist in universe as the High Galactic Alphabet. What I find odd is that this term sounds very Vietnamese, I wonder if it means anything in Vietnamese, by coincidence.--99.141.198.99 23:05, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
Smack Talk[]
Is this essentially the Star Wars variant of smack talk? DAWUSS 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, though Dun Möch includes more than just talking.
The name[]
Which source first gives this the name Dun Möch? I believe that the New Hope doesn't give it...--Kreivi Wolter 16:20, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Jedi usage[]
I believe luminara unduli made liberal use of this technique during her duel with Asajj Ventress. "Your version is unrefined, ameteurish, sloppy." Was she being a bad girl doing that, or is it also used by Jedi?Gnost-Dural 16:40, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
I read that one part of the article more closely... but would the aforementioned circumstance be worth mentioning?Gnost-Dural 16:45, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
inverse Dun Mönch[]
This Picture http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/330/8/8/inverse_dun_moch_by_steveargyle-d33n9pp.jpg by Steve Argyle (made for Star Wars Galaxies.) Should be added under the last part but i don't know how.