Talk: Even Piell/Legends

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Article milestones Date Process Result June 29, 2008 Article status not specified Success July 18, 2008 Featured article
Current status: Featured article

Death

whoa! When did Grievous kill Piell —Unsigned comment by JustinGann (talk • contribs).

• No published material has yet revealed Piell's fate. I believe some fans assumed Piell died on Boz Pity in Obsession, and ran with the idea - Kwenn

Since when did Dave Filoni have the permission to kill of Even Piell?? I'm fuming! I guess that means that a large chunk of Piell's story should now be deleted...bringing back Eeth Koth, fair enough, we didn't really see him die...but killing off someone like him, when he's already been killed off on Coruscant? Not looking forward to seeing people slowly take things off his profile :/ JimminyTi 03:40, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

• In light of the large chunk of canon that TCW is attempting to deem non-canon, the earlier material must take precedence, which means that in this case, we cannot adhere to the newer TCW material by stating that Piell died—he appears in Jedi Twilight, which correctly portrays his death in 19 BBY. It's disappointing that so big a part of continuity was so blatantly ignored in "Citadel Rescue," but that's the unfortunate case here. CC7567 ^(talk) 03:42, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm sure Leland Chee will do something about this in the near future. Somehow, it will be "explained," or "retconned." Until then, I agree with CC7567 in that we cannot adhere to this bogus attempt to destroy canon. —Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 03:46, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
    • But isn't T-canon higher than C-canon? So what happened on TCW would be more 'correct', wouldn't it? Korsa3 03:58, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • Technically, yes. But this wouldn't be the first time T-canon has contradicted C-canon. Leland Chee has retconned a number of the inconsistencies so far, which is why I'm thinking he'll provide a somewhat reasonable explanation for this as well.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 04:00, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
        • Hopefully it will be explained, I cannot believe its canon, I just don't understand the justification, if any, in killing him off, it just didn't need to happen. You'd think someone like Filoni would understand that in this huge star wars universe, he can't just change things to fit this one series, you have to respect already established canon. (I realise that its not just Filoni, but I'd rather blame him) JimminyTi 04:11, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
          • According to the Star Wars OS in the "secrets revealed" section of the episode guide, this is in fact Piell's true fact.

As wriiten on in the ep guide: •The Expanded Universe of Star Wars novels originally had Even Piell survive the Clone Wars only to be killed while as a fugitive in the early days of the Empire. Piell's death in the Citadel Mission is the character's true fate.

• • • • • • You guys all understand that this is George Lucas' doing, not just Dave Filoni. The books and the events in them are irrelevant compared to The Clone Wars. If it's on TCW, it happened.
            • Everyone here understands the canon system. What we don't understand is why George Lucas, Dave Filoni, Leland Chee, etc., continually ignore preexisting canon in order to substitute their own. Also, please remember to sign your comments with four tildes (~). —Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 21:35, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

I think we can safely say this is his canon death, at least for now. MasterJedi15

• Please, let's have patience. A conflict of this scale cannot be cleared up by a few lines from an episode guide that provides no alternative solution to the Jedi Twilight info. I do understand that the episode guides are canonical, but let's wait and see if this issue can be cleared up in a better way than outright deleting all of the Jedi Twilight information. CC7567 ^(talk) 05:57, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

• • Fair enough, but we should at least make a mention of the death in the article, if not in the main body, at the very least in the "Behind the Scenes" section. Canon or not at this point, it did happen and should be mentioned in the article somewhere. If it is later confirmed we can ammend the article as such. —Unsigned comment by MasterJedi15 (talk • contribs).
    • The information will be added when the article is updated. CC7567 ^(talk) 06:06, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • Is that a hint for me to do it? :p MasterJedi15
• blogs(dot)starwars(dot)com/holocron/54 82.32.105.111 12:51, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
  • I know this is a place to discuss changes to the article, but this is just ridiculous. Isn't it Leland Chee's job to keep the continuity intact? When this came up for discussion, Leland Chee didn't say "Hey, wait a minute, Even Piell's confirmed alive well after this episode takes place. This isn't going to work, Dave/George/whoever." No, instead he lets them do what they want and then tells us, "Don't worry, the rest of the continuity is intact!" Yeah, until the next episode comes out, that is...—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 13:04, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
• I believe we should keep the other information but say it is non-cannon because, according to the episode guide on StarWars.com, that's what it is. PreVizla 12:56, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

• No, I think we should change. Leland Chee confirmated that his death in CW is the canon, right? So we change and mention the conflict between both sources on BTS. Lele Mj ^{(Holoprojector)} 14:03, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

• • I agree with those saying we should change it. I know it's upsetting for some that Peill's death was retconned, but facts are facts, like it or not. New canon places him being killed on Lola Sayu. Waiting for an explaination of some sort is just wasting time when it could be used to bring the article up to date to the best of our wookieepedians' abilities. Korsa3 14:09, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

• • • Well, this isn't the first time in 34 years a contradiction of this magnatude has happened. And being the genre Star Wars is, we all know there are hundreds of ways the original fate can be worked out. Won't be perfect; won't satisfy everyone, but there will be an explanation we can use here, eventually. I think the easiest current fix is to acknowledge the Citadel death as the canonical death and then insert a sentance into the character history that confirms that the rest of the information somehow happened and the mysterious appearance has simply not been explained. Medleystudios72 15:16, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • In the holocron continuity thread of the StarWars.com forums, Leland Chee and Nathan Butler seem to suggest an interpretation whereby Piell's actions in Jedi Twilight relate to a different, as yet unidentified, Jedi. --144.173.5.196 20:39, March 12, 2011 (UTC)
      • Also, look at the StarWars.com Episode Guide of Citadel Rescue. It says: "The Expanded Universe of Star Wars novels originally had Even Piell survive the Clone Wars only to be killed while as a fugitive in the early days of the Empire. Piell's death in the Citadel Mission is the character's true fate."

--69.136.55.32 16:32, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

• • • • • The article will be changed. Please be patient. CC7567 ^(talk) 07:41, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

This is completely ridiculous. Canon should not be removed becuase of a cartoon that has been rejected by some Star Wars fans and has been known to make many major errors in the past. I say we remove the death on Lola Sayu thing until we can get a clearer idea of what happened. Even Piell could somehow survive and appear later, or some other thing. We must wait for now.—Unsigned comment by 66.153.229.129 (talk • contribs).

• Unfortunately, Leland Chee has confirmed this as his real death, whether we like it or not. Ridiculous, but true.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 22:30, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Using a TV show to eliminate existing canon should not be allowed. This causes a chain that eliminates further canon from later mentions or uses of the character. Without Piell, his message would not be delivired to Jax Pavan by means of Nick Rostu. Not to mention the entire section on Jedi Twilight will be removed. And it should not have been changed in the first place, we need to wait, like the others said. The episode guide said 'fate' not 'death'. It is possible for him to survive. —Unsigned comment by 66.153.160.150 (talk • contribs).

• "Using a TV show to eliminate existing canon should not be allowed." Unfortunately TV-canon overrides everything except G-canon (the movies and everything straight from Lucas). 1358 ^(Talk) 20:01, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
• Personal interpretations mean nothing in cases such as this. The fact of the matter is that Piell died during the mission to the Citadel; this is his canon fate. His appearance in the Coruscant Nights series will have to be retconned, a decision up to people like Chee, not us. Grand Moff Tranner ^(Comlink) 20:02, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
• Even's death was supposed to explain who Anakin replaced, because as it stood with Twilight, Piell was still alive in 19BBY at the time that Anakin joined the Council. So thats fine, we know that it is definitely Even Piell. What confuses me is why they killed him off so early in the war, because now they need to replace Even with someone else, and then kill them off, so Anakin can replace them, make sense? Anyone else bothered by this, or am I just being petty? JimminyTi 18:00, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Copyvio...almost

A bunch of copy in here sounds far too much like the DB entry. --SparqMan 07:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• I think it's different enough. For comparison sake, here's the DB entry:

The humorless and fierce Piell hails from Lannik, a planet long plagued by violence. Corellian diplomats attempted to help the struggling world, but were ambushed by Red Iaro terrorists in the heart of the Lannik High Court. Even Piell came to their rescue, and single-handedly defeated seven attackers, though he lost his left eye in the melee. The daughter of the diplomats, the Jedi Adi Gallia, had long felt indebted to Piell. Piell carried his scar as a badge of pride and symbol of his honor, bravery and persistence. QuentinGeorge 07:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Six or seven/qoute or article

In the article, it says that he killed seven intruders when he got his scar and that one escaped. In his quotation at the topp, he says that he fougt eight intruders and killed six, while the sventh walked out of there. Did he say it wrong or is it a typing error? Jacce 09:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Master of the seven lightsaber forms

Could anyone please confirm whether Jedi Twilight actually mentions him to be a master of all the seven lightsaber forms? The current article states this to be true. ~~grobiano~~

• Page 6 states that he used to practice the seven lightsabre forms before Order 66, but that doesn't necessarily make him a master of them. -- I need a name (Complain here) 14:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your quick reply! Well, if that's the only source, stating he mastered all the forms is kind of stretching things too much. Someone better at this than me should change it. ~~grobiano~~
    • Fixed. :-) -- AdmirableAckbar ^(Talk) 20:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I assume by all seven forms you mean, all six lightsaber forms? Unless we're keeping Juyo and Vaapad completely separate, it perhaps should be noted that he practiced all seven, excluding Vaapad. Considering only three jedi are known to have used Vaapad, it should be cleared up--82.45.40.125 21:07, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Multiple Lightsabers

I have seen him with red, blue, green, and i think i even saw an image of him with a yellow/orange one. did he use multiple lightsabers over the years or what?66.42.173.161 14:44, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

The Clone Wars Appearance

Yes, I've heard that he is going to appear sometime in Season 3, but you can't list that as an appearance. You need a specific episode. No where else on Wookieepedia is such an unspecified appearance listed. Stop trying to jump the gun, just wait for him to make his appearance.68.40.151.199 05:30, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Pointless information

I changed a sentence in the section about the battle of Geonosis which states "many of Piell's peers on the Jedi Council, including Coleman Trebor, perished", or something like that. Its been changed back...why is this? Coleman Trebor is the ONLY council member who dies in during the battle of Geonosis, so that sentance is false. JimminyTi 23:53, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

• That's a good point. It used to be canon that Eeth Koth died, but these days, I think it would probably be fair to change "peers on the Jedi Council" to "fellow Jedi" or something. Menkooroo 00:24, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

I HATE when they mess with Canon. I hated how they made Greedo alive YEARS before he was even born. I HATE every time they do this...other then THIS time. I was like, "WHAT!?!?" when they killed him off, but at the same time, I think it was a better death then him just getting booted off on Coruscant in Order 66. I mean, its TV show VS a book not very many people even know about, (Other then us nerds)...so sadly, I think TCW wins...for now. I mean, its a TV episode. It can't be undone. But the book can just be skipped over and forgotten because, and lets face it, nothing that great really happened in "Coruscant nights". At least nothing that would alter the fate of the Galaxy as we know it. Its like the crappy books about Ferus Olin. Nothing REALLY happened other then Jude got a chance to re-introduce an old character form one of her old book. In the long run, The TRUE death of Even Piell is up to the viewer. For me though, I say he was mauled by an Anooba.

• The article will be changed. Please see above. CC7567 ^(talk) 07:41, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

I once again deleted the bit that says 'many of Piell's peers on the Jedi Council perished however, including Coleman Trebor' because as I said before, Coleman is the ONLY council member that dies during the Battle of Geonosis. The sentance doesn't make sense JimminyTi 17:43, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

New Death Date

Shouldn't we give Even a new death date? Because he didn't die on Corusant, he died on the Citadel planet on Citadel Rescue. --Yo, yo, yo! THIS IS OG LOC IN THE PLACE, BABY! 03:39, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

• The article will be changed. CC7567 ^(talk) 07:41, March 13, 2011 (UTC)
  • So is the strategy to remove the Coruscant Nights info entirely, or just to, say, condense it and then relocate the information into Behind the scenes, with a note about the canon changes? Enochf 18:52, March 13, 2011 (UTC)
    • I say remove all post-Citadel info from his biography, add it to BTS, and pray that Leland Chee is still on our side. —Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:38, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
      • So is Coruscant Nights I: Jedi Twilight completely non-canon now? Darth Nordeck 04:04, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
        • According to Leland Chee, the storyline is still canon, basically just the usage of Even Piell is not. —Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 04:17, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
          • I see. This is the one big thing I dislike about TCW, when weird things like this happen. I am curious how they'll replace Piell in Jedi Twilight, though. How should we update the article on Jedi Twilight to reflect this new info? Or is this something we should wait for more information on? Darth Nordeck 05:56, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
            • For all we know, Coruscant Nights was given a fourth volume to deal with this issue. Until that's released, there's no point in doing anything but adding the TCW conflict template to all relevant articlesDD97^{Which bear is best?} 06:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
              • The plot summary should not be changed; when this fiasco is cleared up, whenever that will be, the canonicity/accuracy of the book should be explained in the BTS section. Interesting point, Dangerdan. It would be very interesting, and very relieving, to see a retcon attempt in CNIV, but I doubt that will happen.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 06:06, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
                • As I understand it, the new T-Canon level devised by Leland Chee, which covers the various TV series Lucas has more involvement with (such as TCW and the proposed live-action series) is a grade below G-canon (the 6 primary films) and a grade above C-canon (most current novels and comic series), placing Even's death in TCW canonically higher than the events in "Jedi Twilight." I haven't the read the book, so I can't comment on how serious this development is for the canonical-ness of the events of JT, but it seems Even's appearance in JT will need to be addressed specifically by LucasArts.—Unsigned comment by MadTheDJ‏ (talk • contribs).
                  • Yes, this is correct. However, the JTI plot summary should not change, since it has absolutely nothing to do with TCW. Even Piell's changed date of death makes that part of JT non-canon, but it doesn't change the events of the book itself. Also, remember to sign your comments with four tildes (~).—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 01:31, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
                    • Wouldnt this just mean there are two Even Piells? There are people who have the same name in the real world. --The Great and Grand Count Mall!^{(Bow down before me!)} 00:27, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
                      • Sure, there could be two Even Piells. But are they both Clone War-era Lannik Jedi with one missing eye? I doubt it.—Axinal ^{Convocation Chamber} 03:17, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
• For now, I believe that it is prudent to treat the Jedi Twilight information as non-canonical, which will mean that it can be moved into the Bts section as part of the article's "Non-canon history"—so that it will not have to be outright deleted from the article. I'll finish the adjustments soon. CC7567 ^(talk) 03:35, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Still considered Pavan's master

In the Bts, the article says that Even Piell is no longer considered Jax Pavan's master, but according to this post by Leland Chee (in reference to a statement in the April 2011 issue of the UK TCW magazine), they "still go by the assumption that Even Piell was, at least at one point, Jax Pavan's Master." —Milo Fett^[Comlink] 00:06, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks for bringing that up. I'll add it to the article. CC7567 ^(talk) 04:51, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
• Why would Pavan not be Piell's padawan just because he died a bit earlier? I was under the impression that Pavan is a Jedi Knight in the book? So there's no reason to say that just because Piell now died a couple of years prior that Pavan's past 20 odd years now have to be under the tutelage of someone completely different. Lets not go too overboard too soon. JimminyTi 17:51, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Jedi Twilight

Given the overturning of Jedi Twilight's canon status by "Citadel Rescue," I'm really at a roadblock about deciding what info is still salvageable from the novel, mainly Piell's early life. Because Leland Chee clarified that basically the entirety of Jedi Twilight didn't happen, we should try to rely on other sources to detail Piell's early life—the only info that currently still remains from the novel is the fact that his Padawan was Pavan, which was referenced in an issue of the UK TCW Comic. I'll get down to this soon if I can, but anyone else have thoughts on this? CC7567 ^(talk) 06:41, May 5, 2011 (UTC)