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A New HopeEdit

I am puzzled by the listing of RoTJ as the first appearance of this, as I distinctly recall the mind probe being mentioned in A New Hope... Vader said "it will take some time for the mind probe to extract any information" Right? isnt that a thing that happened? Like seconds before Tarkin decided to blow up alderaan. IF this is not that, then why is this also called a mind probe... is that a different thing mentioned in ANH?

TL;DR this was mentioned in ANH before RoTjralok (talk) 06:13, January 27, 2016 (UTC)

This ability was used in The Phantom Menace and ROTJ. There should be mention of the technique's use in those movies in the history section, respectively.

--Darth Vyos (talk) 20:26, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

Possible conflation of topics?Edit

It seems rather odd to me that a number of other abilities are being included under the Mind Probe Force power name. We have two clear examples of Force based mind reading, Kylo Ren in TFA, and Maul in Rebels S3E2 (shown in the episode's trailer.) Both of those times, the Force user made the same gesture, placing their hand an inch or two away from the target's head, and were able to access the target's memories. The listed "use" in TPM isn't the same sort of mind reading, as the Jedi did not actually read Anakin's memories, merely his emotional state.

The Grand Inquisitor, upon reviewing the relevant scene, says that Jedi are trained to resist mind probes, referring to the interrogation droid Tarkin and Kallus had been using on Kanan immediately prior to his (the Inquisitor's) arrival, an interrogation droid that is clearly of the same type used by Vader on Princess Leia in ANH. The Grand Inquisitor then says that Jedi are not immune to pain, and proceeds to use the Force to cause Kanan pain while verbally questioning him, not pulling the memories directly from his mind as Maul and Kylo Ren did when using this Force power.

Moving on to ANH, the use of the interrogation droid, which is called a mind probe in the movie, is again identified as a Force power by this page.

The page also claims that Vader's use of the Force to detect Luke's emotions in RotJ, betraying the existence of his sister, was a use of this ability, when it was clearly the same sort of empathic sense that the Jedi Council used to sense Anakin's emotions in TPM, or Obi-Wan's sensing of the destruction of Alderaan. As I recall, Vader outright says "Your emotions betray you", indicating that Vader was reading Luke's emotions, not his memories.

If someone is willing to second this, I think this page should be rewritten, as it currently is very inaccurate, in my opinion. I'd just like confirmation that someone else thinks my understanding is correct before going and ripping out huge swaths of the page. Jorlem (talk) 10:42, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

  • Vader says 'your thoughts betray you', so he is reading Luke's thoughts. In terms of ANH there is nothing mentioned on the page about it so I don't know where it's identified? He is talking about an interrogator droid being unable to get info out of Leia so that isn't an instance of the force power being used.
    The Grand Inquisitor was still using mind probe as he was trying to sift through Kanan's mind to gather information about the rebels, Kanan is just able to hold out long enough to frustrate the inquisistor. --Lewisr (talk) 10:59, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
    • With regards to ANH, I initially had that as an argument against the other discussion above this, then intended to adjust it as a support for what the Grand Inquisitor does not being the sort of mind probe Maul and Kylo do when I decided to make this into a separate topic, but I appear to have copied improperly from my text editor to here. My bad. As for the RotJ thing, I must've misremembered the quote. Still, in that scene Vader was reading Luke's current thoughts and emotions, not his memories, so I'm still not sure if that is the same thing as what Maul and Kylo Ren did. Still, sorry for bothering you, and thanks for responding.Jorlem (talk) 11:19, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
      • Well I guess it's all mind probing but just done in a different way! But I can see your point on the Vader thing, although I always thought it was him probing through Luke's mind, but hey we all have our interpretation of things. No problem, you aren't bothering anyone, what you're bringing up is perfectly fine so no worries --Lewisr (talk) 11:28, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
        • Thanks. Still, would you agree that what the Jedi Council does with Anakin in TPM, sensing his fear, is not the same thing as the memory/mind reading techniques that we see the various Dark Siders use? At the very least, I think that should be nixed from this page. And come Saturday, Maul's use of mind reading on Hera can be added in its place, as then we will have the full picture, not just what was in the trailer. Jorlem (talk) 11:42, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
          • The TPM one I'm not too sure about, I see where you are coming from in what you say. My advice would be to look at the editing history of the page and see who was the one who added it and discuss it with them, but definitely on Saturday Maul's one on Hera should be added in --Lewisr (talk) 11:50, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
            • Hmm... Looking at the history, the person who added the Council's use of the ability was Darth Vyos, who also added the RotJ use by Vader on Luke. And it appears that that user's sole contributions were those, and a minor edit skirmish to keep them on the page. Is there a way to see if Vyos has logged on since February? Jorlem (talk) 12:04, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
              • The last time they made an edit was 4th Feb, probably means that they won't be back anytime soon, I would've suggested leaving a message on their talk page but they probably won't see it, the other thing I suggest then is too just be bold and take the information out yourself and if anyone puts it back in then discuss it with them why they readded it --Lewisr (talk) 12:08, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
                • Done. I left the RotJ use by Vader in there, as that is arguably a variant of this ability, and fully removed mention of the Jedi Council from the page. Jorlem (talk) 12:39, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
                  • This is Darth Vyos, the one questionable person in question who added the little bit on the Jedi Council using the ability. I added the section, and would like to re-add it if everyone could agree for a few reasons. Though not directly referred to in TPM namely as use of the specific "mind-probe ability" used by Ren or in Rebels, when the Jedi Council was observing Anakin in the Council chambers Ki-Adi-Mundi did state while they were I guess "searching" Anakin's thoughts- the line of dialogue: "Your thoughts dwell on your mother". It is at the least apparent from the scene that the Jedi Council were indeed capable of using the Force to the extent that they could read Anakin's surface thoughts, or sift through them to at least some varying degree, indicated by Ki-Mundi's choice of the word "thoughts" over general emotions. There hasn't been any distinction made thus far as to whether the mind probe ability used by the Jedi Council and Dark Side users like Ren in how they are alike, or disalike, but I felt the the force techniques used by the Jedi Council in TPM should be mentioned somewhere on the site, and that this could be a temporary place for it to stay until further word comes out as to some sort of light side variant of this ability. I might try adding again if no one gets back to me, but these are the reasons I wrote that segment of the article, thanks, Darth Vyos (talk) 20:36, March 21, 2017 (UTC)
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