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Featured article nominations

View recent changes for this page and its subpages

Pelta-class frigate

(1 Inqs/3 Users/4 Total)

(Votes required: 2 Inqvote(s) required to reach minimum. Additional 1 user or 1 Inq vote required to pass.)

Support

  1. B32(Talk)I-find-this-atire-appealing 16:38, December 23, 2017 (UTC)
  2. Ben sc01t (Talk) 08:40, September 2, 2018 (UTC)
  3. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:07, September 6, 2018 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:38, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Object

Ecks-class objections
  • I think the article would benefit from a separate "Role" section. The "Starship and vehicle class articles" section of Wookieepedia:Layout Guide indeed recommends such a section. Just by glancing at the infobox, it seems there should be more than enough material for a Role section.
  • I don't suppose there's a reason why engagements is capitalized in the section heading "Early Engagements"?
  • Some of the paragraphs in the article are huge. Please split up some of them. I think the article could also benefit from one or even two more images in the history section.
  • The Behind the scenes section needs to be sourced.
    • Sourced--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:33, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
      • Release dates need separate sources.
        • Added! I was under the impression that they didn't, sorry about that--Vitus InfinitusTalk 02:53, March 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • The article is currently in Category:Pages with missing permanent archival links. Please go through all citation templates and supply backup links. Instructions can be found on the template pages.
  • Please go through all dates in the article and provide a valid source for them. None of the TCW episodes mention "22 BBY", for instance. 1358 (Talk) 00:20, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
  • Please read the instructions for the different fields of Template:Starship class. What you have right now in "role" and "model" is incorrect.
  • {{Imagecat}} should be placed somewhere in the article.
  • The Description section definitely needs to include information about the interior, which, if my memory serves me correctly, was quite prominently featured in "Brain Invaders". 1358 (Talk) 23:05, February 28, 2018 (UTC)
  • Are there no relevant quotes for the currently-quoteless sections? It's been a while since I saw "Brain Invaders", but I bet something applicable can be found there.
  • Please check your image caption punctuation. Full sentences get a full stop.
    • Fixed--Vitus InfinitusTalk 22:15, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
      • Please note that some of the captions you punctuated are actually not full sentences and do not get a full stop. I've fixed it for you. In these cases, the verbs are in present participle and work as modifiers for the nouns. This is a bit of a tricky case, but generally if you have a single verb that ends in -ing in your sentence, it's participle. Let me know if this is unclear. 1358 (Talk) 22:59, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
  • All applicable articles need to be linked within individual references.
  • There are definitely more fields that you can fill in your {{cite web}} references. Authors, release dates, etc. Please also note that the displayed title should match that of the pages you're linking.
  • I'm not convinced that listing different release dates in the Bts is really needed in this article. All you're doing is create a need for more references. Just stick with the release year. 1358 (Talk) 19:34, March 12, 2018 (UTC)
  • Reference 22 doesn't really work as is because "the events of this article" take place over a long period of time.
    • That's what's been used on all dates related to the first half of Rebels Season 2, should I still remove it?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:27, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
      • The logic behind the reference should be fine, but you can't say "The events of this article" because the article covers a large timeline. 1358 (Talk) 23:37, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
  • On a quick glance, I can spot at least two instances where the same reference is used consecutively within the same paragraph without any other references inbetween. Either one of those references is incorrect, or the first instance is unnecessary.
  • I don't think we can really assert that 900 was a standard crew size for Pelta-class vessels since the Databank instance explicitly refers to the Phoenix Home. However, we can include that Phoenix Home had a crew of 900.
    • Star Wars: The Rebel Files also states that it had a crew of 900, should I switch references?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:20, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
      • Does it say Phoenix Home had 900, or Pelta-class ships in general? 1358 (Talk) 23:21, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
        • Pelta's in general. It's in a section where the details of the frigate are listed like length and manufacturer--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:27, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
          • Yeah, switching to that sounds good. 1358 (Talk) 23:29, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
            • Done!--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:31, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
              • For consistency, you should probably use the same references for length and manufacturer etc in the infobox as in the body. 1358 (Talk) 23:37, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
                • Removed the reference all together as Rebel Files has all that info--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:42, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
  • I'm willing to bet at least some of the TCW quotes have audio files that can be added to the quotes. See Category:Audio files from Star Wars television series. 1358 (Talk) 22:59, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
    • Haven't found any relating to the quotes unfortunately--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:31, March 14, 2018 (UTC)
  • Reference 27 is throwing a citation error.
    • Oops, must have happened when I switched from the databank to Rebel Files, fixed--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:16, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
  • This just reads awkwardly due to the tense: "TB-73 arrives at the medical station; however, with no one at the controls, it is in danger of a collision." Go with something like "TB-73 arrives at the medical station with no one at the controls". 1358 (Talk) 16:00, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
  • You should definitely work blockade runner 0-9-9 into the prose instead of leaving it as a link in a quote.
  • The "Escape craft" field in the infobox has infobox-exclusive information.
  • I'd go with just "Frigate" in the "class" field seeing as the "assault ship" part is really for the variant only.
  • You're missing probably more than a few Databank entries from your Sources section. Barriss Offee's and Brain Worm's entries both mention a medical frigate. I'm willing to bet there are more Databank entries that contain at least a cursory mention of the medical frigate. 1358 (Talk) 23:17, March 20, 2018 (UTC)
    • In terms of databanks, I could only find those two, however, the episode guide for the Siege of Lothal has a ton of concept art and information, so I added that as a source as well, and I'm going to be adding the information tonight--Vitus InfinitusTalk 02:03, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
      • Added information and additional images to supplement expansion--Vitus InfinitusTalk 03:04, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
        • Please go through every single relevant TCW episode guide and check for mentions in not just the synopsis but also the trivia/episode/concept art galleries. The guide for "Brain Invaders" mentions the ship and currently you only have the "episode gallery" feature listed in the Sources. We've also been treating the old TCW episode guides as Canon seeing as the episode guides were all adapted directly from the (Canon) episode scripts (see Krix for precedent) so you'll want to go through those as well and see if anything can be added to the Sources. 1358 (Talk) 16:26, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
          • Okay, do I only add the episode guides or do I also add the corresponding concept, episode, and trivia galleries along with the guide?
            • Just the guides; only get that specific when you add references in the article. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 23:02, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
              • Done--Vitus InfinitusTalk 04:18, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
                • You're still missing the old episode guides. "Brain Invaders" and "Shadow of Malevolence", if not more, mention the frigate. {{SWArchive}} is the citation template you'll want to use. 1358 (Talk) 23:32, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
                  • Done--Vitus InfinitusTalk 18:29, March 26, 2018 (UTC)
                    • You should check the biography gallery sections on the databanks too, I just added the Ahsoka one but Kit Fisto's and Poggle the Lesser's also mentions medical frigates --Lewisr (talk) 18:41, March 26, 2018 (UTC)
  • Some notes in regards to citation templates. You can remove the unused parameters in {{cite web}}, just as you wouldn't include empty parameters in any other templates. You should use first and last only; author is just unnecessary if we know both the first and last names. Furthermore, authorlink is for internal, not external links, so it's not applicable here. date takes the form of YYYY-MM-DD in accordance with ISO 8601; you don't need to include year and month. 1358 (Talk) 18:49, March 27, 2018 (UTC)
    • Do I remove all of the unused parameters or just the ones you mentioned?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:36, March 27, 2018 (UTC)
  • The Brain worm incident aboard TB-73 is major enough to deserve a mention in the intro, imo.
    • Added--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:26, March 29, 2018 (UTC)
      • This reads a bit awkward, specifically the "Serving in the capacity of a supply ship" part as you talk about supply ships in the preceding sentence, so it feels a bit repetitive. Maybe you could establish a timeline instead? "In the second year of the war, the crew of aboard the frigate TB-73 was infected by Geonosian brain worms" or something similar would be more informative than what you have now.
  • "During the Imperial Era, the early rebellion, and later the Rebel Alliance, fought against the Galactic Empire and used Pelta-class frigates as medcenters" This just reads awkward. I would recommend you reword it something like this: "During the Imperial Era, Pelta-class frigates were used as medcenters by the early rebellion..."
  • "One notable example of the retrofitted Pelta frigates was Phoenix Home" Notable according to whom? Unless a source explicitly calls the Phoenix Home notable, it's your subjective interpretation and should be removed.
  • Darth Vader could use a title or something as context in the intro.
    • Added--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:26, March 29, 2018 (UTC)
      • Keep in mind that anything you add to the intro needs to be mentioned in the body as well, and if needed, separately referenced in the body.
  • I feel like you should make "War continues" a section dedicated only to the TB-73 incident and move the last paragraph to "Later campaigns". You could then rename "War continues" as something more appropriate. 1358 (Talk) 20:53, March 29, 2018 (UTC)
  • The "Sources" list is arranged in chronological order, by real world publication date. Please double-check your ordering here. I'm not sure if the new epguides have publication dates, but the old ones sure do, as do some of the other sw.com articles.
    • Done--Vitus InfinitusTalk 02:33, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
      • No, they're not ordered by publication date right now. All the old epguides (those that use {{SWArchive}}) were published prior to the starwars.com revamp so they go before the {{SW}} entries. Aside from the new epguides, there should be a publication date on the page itself. You can also use internet archive to find out when a page first appeared. 1358 (Talk) 21:31, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
  • You have quite a few duplicate links in the body. The good news here is that there's a gadget to weed these out. Simply go to your preferences and enable the tool in the "Gadgets" tab and you'll see what I mean. 1358 (Talk) 14:51, April 1, 2018 (UTC)
    • Looks like I need Java Script or something because I don't see the highlights--Vitus InfinitusTalk 02:25, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
      • You'll need to "Enable personal JavaScript" in the "Under the hood" tab. Any modern browser supports JS so it shouldn't be a problem. 1358 (Talk) 10:01, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
        • Okay, I checked the box for enabling JavaScript and have the check on the gadget for highlighting duplicate linkgs, but I don't notice any highlighting. How are the highlights displayed? Maybe I'm just overlooking it--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:40, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
        • It's in the My Tools section of the bottom toolbar. The duplicate body links are highlighted with red boxes. See this screenshot. 1358 (Talk) 21:53, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
          • Ohhhh got it now. This is cool, learn something new everyday :) Got a question, for example, if Darth Vader is linked in the intro and I link Darth Vader in let's say behind the scenes or somewhere else in the body, would the second instance still be highlighted? How does that work?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 22:01, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
            • I have no idea of how it actually works, but it ignores intro links. My guess is it starts searching for duplicates after the first heading. 1358 (Talk) 22:04, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
  • I think the Characteristics would benefit from a division into two subsections. How you'll name them is up to you, but the current second and third paragraphs could probably make up one of the potential subsections. 1358 (Talk) 00:52, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
    • Added, how's that?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:30, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
      • The reason why I suggested the second and third paragraphs was that they contained mostly stuff related to the interior, so you could simply name that section "Interior". "Trait", "appearance" and "characteristic" are virtually synonyms so the current naming seems a bit redundant.
        • Fixed--Vitus InfinitusTalk 19:55, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
          • I've taken the liberty of doing some rearranging here. Take a look. The "interior" quote is perfect, but the main Characteristics quote is kinda lame. Do you think something else could be found? Please also make sure to double-check my rearrangement for any weird referencing. 1358 (Talk) 21:25, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
            • Your edit looks good to me. I'm having difficulty finding a quote that relates to the characteristics of the vessel, I'll continue to look for another one--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:29, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
              • I haven't been able to find another quote of greater quality or importance--Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:46, April 12, 2018 (UTC)
                • Very well. 1358 (Talk) 19:45, April 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • With the addition of a new section, you should see if you can find a quote for it, as well.
  • I'd also like to see the intro just slightly expanded. You could probably put a paragraph break after "food rations" and add some more stuff about battles where they saw use during the Clone Wars. 1358 (Talk) 19:45, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • The B1 battle droid informing Grievous about the escaping frigates, as featured in the lead quote, is technically intro-exclusive right now. You should sneak that information into the body, allowing you to remove the quote caption link.
    • Added--Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:59, April 13, 2018 (UTC)
      • I was thinking about sneaking it into the body. You don't need to be that detailed in the intro. 1358 (Talk) 21:52, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
  • "...and a mercy mission to Aleen, which saw the use of Pelta-class frigates as blockade runners and supply ships." A cursory glance at the body seems to imply that the frigates weren't used as blockade runners at Aleen. Seeing as Ryloth, Christophsis, and Kaliida Shoals all occur in 22 BBY, you could probably move the Aleen mission to a later point in the intro.
  • "until it was destroyed by Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Vader." You could include here where it was destroyed and link the battle in question. 1358 (Talk) 19:45, April 13, 2018 (UTC)
    • Done. Also restructured the final body paragraph to include where--Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:59, April 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • You should note in the infobox engine field that the frigate is equipped with one engine unit.
  • "Ray shields were equipped in a passageway to reach the bridge, acting as a security countermeasure." A countermeasure against what exactly? Simply "measure" would probably suffice. 1358 (Talk) 23:05, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
    • Just noting that these objections are still unaddressed. They're a bit hidden so I thought I'd give you a heads-up. 1358 (Talk) 23:20, October 10, 2018 (UTC)
    • Done, thanks for the head's up--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:53, October 10, 2018 (UTC)
AV
Imperators-class frigate
  • Please get rid of the duplicate links. Imperators II(Talk) 19:44, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
  • Write out the dating reference for 4 BBY without relying on the Senate Hall thread. Imperators II(Talk) 19:44, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • Done--Vitus InfinitusTalk 17:38, May 6, 2018 (UTC)
      • Firstly, fix the grammar/sentence construction mistakes in the ref. Secondly, you're going to have to be more specific with your sourcing: "according to StarWars.com." Lastly, the ref should be rewritten to adopt the BBY/ABY system. Imperators II(Talk) 20:09, May 8, 2018 (UTC)
        • How do I cite a starwars.com article in the note itself? Same as I would for any other reference? Added BBY/ABY, and--Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:42, May 8, 2018 (UTC)
          • Sure, you just paste the appropriate template where necessary in the ref. And I'm still not seeing the BBY dates in the ref. Also, from what's currently in the ref, you're saying that The Siege of Lothal is set in 4 BBY just because it takes place between a 4 BBY source and a 3 BBY — but those restraints could just as easily allow the movie to be set in 3 BBY. Imperators II(Talk) 08:46, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
            • Can confirm that Galactic Atlas dates the events of Siege of Lothal to 4 BBY. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 08:52, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
              • Great, I'll remove the note and source it to Atlas--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:30, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
  • Why is the first sentence of the BTS sourced to Rotten Tomatoes?? Imperators II(Talk) 19:44, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • Removed. This was before I was told that I could just source it to the material itself.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:44, April 28, 2018 (UTC)
  • "The frigate also saw featured use" — what is this? Imperators II(Talk) 19:44, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
  • "one retrofitted Pelta-class frigate, Phoenix Home, served as the flagship of Phoenix Cell, which also consisted of the Spectres, under the leadership of Commander Jun Sato, until it was destroyed by the Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader during the Siege of Lothal in the Lothal sector" — the mention of the Spectres is unnecessary in this sentence and causes clutter, and it makes it unclear whom Jun Sato commanded. Also, is the mention of the Lothal sector really necessary here? It reads kind of redundant. Imperators II(Talk) 19:44, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
  • What has the huffingtonpost.com ref quote have to do with the Rebels movie's release date? Imperators II(Talk) 19:44, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • Removed for same reason as your third objection--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:44, April 28, 2018 (UTC)
  • How is the Rebels mention in the BTS notable? Imperators II(Talk) 20:09, May 8, 2018 (UTC)
  • Please provide release years for "Brain Invaders" and all the books mentioned in the BTS. Imperators II(Talk) 20:09, May 8, 2018 (UTC)
  • What has the last sentence of History got to do with the Pelta frigates? Imperators II(Talk) 08:46, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
  • Sorry, but ref 26 is just bloody confusing. Please fix the grammar, rewrite the ref for clarity, and don't forget that every fact you mention in the ref has to be sourced. Imperators II(Talk) 08:35, May 21, 2018 (UTC)
    • Couldn't definitively establish that the blockade was before 3 BBY, so I removed that part and fixed ref.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 19:30, May 30, 2018 (UTC)
      • But you should still establish a no-later-than boundary for Raddus sending the document. I mean, the guy died in 0 BBY, didn't he? Imperators II(Talk) 17:25, May 31, 2018 (UTC)
        • Added.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 13:45, June 19, 2018 (UTC)
          • You should specify which media exactly from Rebels's season two place the blockade of Ibaar after the Siege of Lothal. Imperators II(Talk) 16:14, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
            • I don't think I've seen a source that explicitly states that it follows chronological order, but I'll go try and find one. Will get back to you on this.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:58, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
              • Changed to Star Wars: The Rebel Files, since its contents are in chronological order--Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:48, July 18, 2018 (UTC)
                • Do The Rebel Files mention the Siege of Lothal, though? Imperators II(Talk) 09:31, July 31, 2018 (UTC)
                  • Just saw that it didn't. I further fixed up the ref but I'm not sure how much further I can explain it given that when watching Rebels, the events are in chronological order.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 13:28, July 31, 2018 (UTC)
                    • After taking a fresh look at it, it now looks to me like we can do without the earlier date, which I've taken the liberty of removing. Imperators II(Talk) 18:17, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • Duplicate links in the last paragraph of History. Imperators II(Talk) 16:14, June 20, 2018 (UTC)
Lewisr

Shouldn't Raddus' message to Mothma stating in a document assembled by his aides that the rebel fleet consisted largely of several starship classes including Peltas be mentioned? The message is placed between the Blockade of Ibaar and Mission to Ryloth (Phoenix Squadron) if that helps with placement --Lewisr (talk) 16:43, May 10, 2018 (UTC)

  • I wasn't aware of that. What does the passage say?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:47, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
    • You should be considering you already used info from the message haha, I've linked to a preview where you can see it --Lewisr (talk) 16:54, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
      • Oh I see, I only included stuff from the chart, thanks Lewis!--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:59, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
        • Don't know how I missed that. Added--Vitus InfinitusTalk 17:09, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
          • You should when the blockade happened so its gives a rough idea of when the message was sent --Lewisr (talk) 17:18, May 10, 2018 (UTC)
            • Added--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:10, May 14, 2018 (UTC)
              • You need to add a source that says she was 16 when she joined the rebellion and then one that says the mission take place in 3 BBY --Lewisr (talk) 16:15, May 14, 2018 (UTC)
                • Should be fixed now--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:19, May 14, 2018 (UTC)
                  • How do we know the blockade came after the Siege of Lothal and before the mission on Lothal? --Lewisr (talk) 16:25, May 14, 2018 (UTC)
SE
  • "for the passengers and crew of the frigates, including a barracks for escorting clone troopers, private quarters for other passengers such as Jedi padawans, and a mess hall for dining" I don't think you need to specifically note Jedi Padawans here. You can probably also reword the first part as well to read "including a barracks for escorting troops, as the barracks aren't specifically for clones.
  • "The Alliance to Restore the Republic would later use the bridge as a communications array, while another bridge at the bow was retrofitted." Did the ship have two bridges, or did the rebels retrofit another room into a second bridge? Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:40, May 17, 2018 (UTC)
  • Does the Star Wars Encyclopedia of Starfighters and Other Vehicles say anything about why some "honorable" Separatist generals refrained from attacking Peltas? Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:36, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
    • Since Vitus is on vacation for the better part of the month: The book merely says "The more honorable generals in the Separatist fleet usually don't attack it". - AV-6R7Crew Pit 04:55, June 1, 2018 (UTC)
      • Thanks AV. As AV states, unfortunately, the Star Wars Encyclopedia of Starfighters and Other Vehicles doesn't specify further.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 13:45, June 19, 2018 (UTC)
  • "At some point during the early rebellion against the Galactic Empire, Kaeden Larte enrolled in the medical program" What is the medical program? Supreme Emperor (talk) 05:11, August 9, 2018 (UTC)
    • Re-read and corrected the sentence. It was a medical program on Alderaan--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:12, August 12, 2018 (UTC)
Tommy
  • Please check your image caption punctuation. Full stops are only for full sentences.
  • Could you elaborate on the Pelta-class Assault Ship? In the image we see it winning in a broadside against a Raider-class corvette.
    • Added context in both history and description sections.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:37, August 8, 2018 (UTC)
  • A Pelta-class is briefly seen in Divide and Conquer from Star Wars Animation-Magazine. Please update the article accordingly. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 17:49, August 8, 2018 (UTC)
    • Do you know where I can access that? I haven't been able to find anything online, thanks--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:37, August 8, 2018 (UTC)
      • It's only available in Germany and Austria I believe. I can send you photos of my copy but I haven't got around to translating it yet, so you'll have to do that. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 07:35, August 9, 2018 (UTC)
        • That would be great, thanks!
          • Right, then would you mind coming onto IRC to discuss the best way for me to send the images to you? Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 14:46, August 9, 2018 (UTC)
    • Is it stated to be Phoenix Home? Is it possible the cell had another Pelta-class? If not, at least mention in in the bts. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 17:07, August 12, 2018 (UTC)
      • It's not stated but we've never had any other source indicate that they had another Pelta, so I'm not really too confident in this comic. I'll add to the BTS.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 17:09, August 12, 2018 (UTC)
        • Added to BTS, let me know how it looks--Vitus InfinitusTalk 17:14, August 12, 2018 (UTC)
          • Hmm, I'm not convinced that just because no other source has suggested the cell had a second pelta that it isn't true. We have info from a canon source, with nothing outright conflicting with it, so we have no reason to disregard it. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 18:01, August 12, 2018 (UTC)
            • We've never seen a second Pelta associated with Phoenix Cell anywhere except in the art in this comic, not when all of Phoenix Cell's forces fought in the Battle of Atollon, not before the Mission to Ryloth (Phoenix Squadron), and etc. There has also been no source such as Star Wars: The Rebel Files or others imply that Phoenix Cell had a second Pelta. I'm not convinced at all truthfully. If you insist, then I'll add it to this article and to articles corresponding with Phoenix Cell, however.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:50, August 12, 2018 (UTC)
              • Okay I see your point. Good work. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 07:20, August 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • I think you should add their ability to dock with a Haven-class medical station in the characteristics and possibly role sections. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 21:04, August 20, 2018 (UTC)
  • I think some of the thumbnails should be enlarged so we can see them better.
  • Although Galactic Atlas doesn't place the Malevolence episodes in 22 BBY, it does place TCW movie and Bombad Jedi in that year, so you should use a chronological order for TCW to write a manual date note for that section.
  • GA does not mention Aleen, so you're either going to need a manual ref note for the 20 BBY bit or you'll have to remove it or modify the wording so it's more ambiguous. I highly recommend purchasing this book for yourself Vitus, as I think it'd be good for you to see these things for yourself and look up info to use in manual ref notes and the like. It's a good book as well so there's that.
    • I'm still waiting on this. I'm not telling you to get the book by the way, I just think it'd be useful for your noms. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 20:19, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
  • Again, the events of Siege of Lothal aren't directly mentioned in GA as far as I can see, only Fire Across the Galaxy is dated to 4 BBY.
    • How is it now?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 03:05, February 8, 2019 (UTC)
      • The events of the episode are dated to 4 BBY as Vader's duel with Ezra and Kanan is dated as 4 BBY, using a similar note to Attack on Imperial Troop Transports should be okay --Lewisr (talk) 14:16, February 8, 2019 (UTC)
        • Yeah I'm sorry that was my bad, it does actually date the episode to 4 BBY, just not in the timeline section weirdly. Feel free to change it back. And FYI, your current ref wouldn't work because Fire Across the Galaxy could have taken place in the final day of 4 BBY. But that doesn't matter now.
  • Star Wars: The Last Jedi: Incredible Cross-Sections does not use the BBY/ABY system. It says Raddus died in the Battle of Scarif, which Galactic Atlas does place in 0 BBY. Please modify. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 17:20, February 6, 2019 (UTC)
  • For the Cat and Mouse date ref, I think you should say the episode takes place between AotC and TCW film, both of which are dated to 22 BBY etc, just to be clear.
  • All things in refs should be linked to upon their first mention. I've noticed places years, Galactic calendar, Jedi, Malevolence could be linked to, for example. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 18:55, February 9, 2019 (UTC)
    • Done--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:41, February 19, 2019 (UTC)
      • Those were examples. I'm still seeing more articles unlinked to. 22 BBY is another example. I won't be fixing these in a copy-edit, I expect you to go through each ref and link to a subject upon its first mention. Also, is there a reason you removed the Galactic calendar link in the Raddus ref? Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 20:19, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
        • Alright I can't find anymore in the refs, and not really sure why I removed it--Vitus InfinitusTalk 23:05, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
QGJ
  • Intro: Serving as medcenters, a B1 battle droid informed Grievous that several vessels of the class were active during the Battle of the Kaliida Nebula, as they and the Kaliida Shoals Medical Center were a target of the Malevolence, captained by General Grievous. Can this be reworded? The part about the battle droid makes it read awkwardly.
    • Reworded--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:51, August 24, 2018 (UTC)
      • I actually think that the part about the B1 battle droid was completely unneccessary and irrelevant for the purposes of the intro. I have rewritten the sentence. Let me know what you think. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 08:07, August 24, 2018 (UTC)
  • In the second year of the Clone Wars, Geonosian brain worms infected Tango Company, the escorting crew of TB-73, and one participated in recovery efforts of the survivors of the Endurance following a sabotage of the vessel. This sentence could use some rewording as well. I initially thought that one of the worms particiapted in the recovery efforts
  • Characteristics: During the Imperial Era, the early rebellion, and later the Alliance to Restore the Republic I'm not sure that we can treat "the early rebellion" as an organisation of sorts. The phrase refers to a passage of time, not a specific group. "Early rebel cells" or something along those lines would sound better, IMO.
    • How is it now?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:51, August 24, 2018 (UTC)
      • The sentence I was talking about was in the "Characteristics" section. You changed a different one in the history section. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 08:07, August 24, 2018 (UTC)
  • I will continue the review later. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 14:40, August 23, 2018 (UTC)
  • Check for appropriate context throughout. I'm seeing some instances of missing context, mainly for ships like the Malevolence and the Negotiator, as well as some individuals like Boba Fett and Hondo. Also, don't forget that upon first mention, it should be "the planet Christophsis", not just "Christophsis."
  • Tango Company was ordered to accompany the Jedi, however, unbeknownst to all of them, clone trooper Scythe, a member of Tango Company, was infected by a Geonosian brain worm, previously seen and thought destroyed along with the Progate Temple, in which Queen Karina the Great used the brain worms to form a hive mind and reanimate dead Geonosian warriors to create an undead army. Please split this sentence. This is very run-on.
  • Was Skywalker aboard the Endurance with Windu or did he arrive on the Pelta frigate? This is currently unclear and can be interpreted either way.
  • Watch out for compound sentences that require commas. If the part of the sentence that comes after the conjunction can operate as a sentence on its own, then it should be separated by a comma. Example: Windu's defenses held, but the battle was costly to his men, and he requested medical supplies. "He requested medical supplies" can work as a sentence, since it has a subject and a corresponding verb. Therefore, it needs a comma before "and." I've fixed a couple of such sentences, but keep this in mind for the future.
    • I fixed all instances where I found such errors. Will continue to look and correct.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:55, September 4, 2018 (UTC)
  • The Battle of Endor could use a bit more context, IMO.
  • Regarding the supposed inconsistency in the Bts. Why is it that improbable to assume that the Rebellion had multiple Pelta frigates in their possession? Did some source explicitly state that Phoenix Home was the Rebellion's only Pelta frigate at the time? I think that the information from the German comic should be integrated into the article proper.
    • The Rebellion had multiple Peltas, however, Phoenix Cell only had one per the events of Star Wars Rebels and the comic only depicts Phoenix Cell as far as I can tell.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:55, September 4, 2018 (UTC)
      • This is exactly what I'm asking, though. Apologies if I may have phrased it incorrectly. How do we know that Phoenix Cell only had one such starship? Just because we only see one on screen in the show, doesn't mean that they didn't have another one elsewhere, or that they didn't obtain another between the events of The Siege of Lothal and the events of the comic. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 08:32, September 5, 2018 (UTC)
        • If they had another Pelta, which the comic depicts as looking identical to the Phoenix Home, then 50% of season 2's plot would be redundant and contradictory. For most of season 2, Phoenix Cell embarked on the goal of gaining a surface base because their previous Pelta-class frigate was destroyed and they needed a new center of operations. Later on, they decided to steal a Quasar Fire-class cruiser-carrier to fulfill the role of their carrier and flagship that their destroyed Pelta-class did before. To say that Phoenix Cell had another Pelta with a hangar and exact color scheme of Phoenix Home being used during that entire time would undo most of the season imo. It would be safer to assume that the appearance of a Pelta in the artwork of a small german comic is artistic error rather than assume that they undermined the plot of season 2, in my personal opinion.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 13:29, September 5, 2018 (UTC)
          • Very well. I understand your reasoning. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:07, September 6, 2018 (UTC)
  • Also, unless it is explicitly stated in the comic that it takes place after "Imperial Super Commandos," a ref needs to be constructed explaining how the chronology was deduced. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 08:07, August 24, 2018 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Some formatting issues to begin with.
    • In the Appearances, "Divide and Conquer" should be placed within the Shortstory template. It seems you will need to fill in a redlink for whatever issue of Star Wars Animation-Magazine that appears in.
    • The Phoenix Home Expansion Pack is properly formatted as such. Please fix this in the Sources and referencing.
    • The link in reference 9 is broken. Also, "Fleet Command" is capitalized as the name of that article. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:17, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
      • Fixed!--Vitus InfinitusTalk 16:24, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
        • Note, though, that the name of the article is just "Fleet Command"; the rest is the subheading and doesn't need to be included. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:39, October 30, 2018 (UTC)
  • In the infobox, I would recommend tucking Phoenix Cell under the Alliance as a sub-bullet. I realize that its appearance as part of the cell predates the formal formation of the Rebel Alliance, but since the cell ultimately becomes part of the Rebellion anyways, that's really just splitting hairs. This way it looks neater at least. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:56, October 30, 2018 (UTC)
  • I notice this article is categorized in both "Phoenix Squadron starship classes" and "Rebel Alliance starship classes." Should the Phoenix classes category not just be subcategorized into the Rebel classes category, making it unnecessary to list both in this article? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:49, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
    • I removed the Phoenix category given how the Pelta was used by other units in the Rebellion--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:51, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
      • Just to clarify, the Phoenix category is for ships used exclusively by that cell? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:55, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
        • The category states that its for ships belonging to Phoenix Cell but the articles I see there are not exclusive to Phoenix Cell except the kom'rk-class fighter--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:59, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
          • I guess I'm questioning what the purpose of that category is, then. Specifically for this nomination, why this article is or isn't listed in that category. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:03, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
            • I don't recall adding that category nor why. Ive been thinking it might have been added because Phoenix Cell was originally independent before joining the official Rebel Alliance, and so that may have been the reasoning for having both categories, especially since the Pelta used by Phoenix Cell was destroyed before officially joining the Rebel Alliance.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 02:09, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
              • For the same rationale I gave for my previous objection regarding the infobox affiliation, I say this Phoenix starship classes category is splitting hairs and unnecessary as a separate category. For the purposes of this nomination, I feel like we need to reach some kind of resolution here. I would be comfortable with de-populating it and CSD'ing it if there are no objections. What do you think? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:17, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
                • I agree with that, especially since several sources state that Phoenix Cell was (seemingly always) part of the nascent Alliance to Restore the Republic while it was only known as "the Alliance" and was an Alliance sector fleet, all before the Rebel Alliance was "officially" formed--Vitus InfinitusTalk 02:20, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
Anil
  • I think it would be better to link Cloning in "clone troopers" instead of "Clone Wars" as it's kind of a phrase.
  • I'd like to see {{C|(retrofitted)}} also near the "Command ship" in the infobox.
  • I think I'd prefer the use of kph instead of Kilometer per hour in the infobox for aesthetic reasons.
  • "Deflector shield" should be linked in the third paragraph of the Characteristics.
  • Also, "barracks" and "computer" should be linked in the next paragraph.
  • "Medcenter" should be linked somewhere in the article. (not to be confused with medcenter ship)
  • I believe the section of "Battle of Christophsis" has a considerable amount of information not relevant to this article, such as the mention of the Battle of Malastare Narrows.
  • Again, in the sections "Battle of Ryloth," "The threat of the Malevolence," and some of the following sections, I think there are a ton of redundant info, like A contacted/alerted B to contact/alert C, the death of Pao, the details of the attack on the Malevolence, "Emperor Palpatine was killed by Vader" etc.
  • In the same sections, similar to my objection for your Inq Headquarters FAnom, I get some play-by-play-ish vibes while reading certain parts. This usually happens when there are multiple successive sentences that simply summarize the dialog. Please take a look through the text and see if you can put more emphasis on actions, rather than conversations.
  • The Force should be capitalized in "Parasitic troubles."
  • There are some links that should be linked earlier in the article, such as "Trooper."
  • I believe the image caption of the Role section has a misplaced comma.
  • Darth Vader's TIE Advanced should be linked.
  • I think the second sentence of the BTS is kinda unnecessary.
  • In the last paragraph of the BTS, I think you can directly say that the comic takes place after The Siege of Lothal, and moving the mention of "Imperial Super Commandos" to the manual reference note. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:21, March 11, 2019 (UTC)

Comments


Jaden Korr

  • Nominated by: QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:28, March 10, 2018 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Unfortunately, I wasn't able to see the article through the nomination process the last time. However, I have put a lot of work into this and would really like to try nominating it again. I have made my best effort to address the outstanding objections from the last nom, as well as making overall adjustments to the article, mostly having to do with paragraph size.

(0 Inqs/0 Users/0 Total)

(Votes required: 3 Inqvote(s) required to reach minimum. Additional 4 user or 2 Inq votes required to pass.)

Support

Object

Exiled Jedi
Infobox / intro
  • Looking at the BTS and his appearance in Jedi Academy, I'm thinking that it would be best to leave off the circa 1 ABY birth date, unless there is more information backing this estimate up. From what is in the reference, all we have is one guy thinking that he appears to be about 40 in 41 ABY. Just because he appears to be forty, that doesn't mean that he actually is close to that age. He could be considerably older and just look younger. I'd still mention the age he appears in the P&T, but I don't think it is enough to specify a birth date from.
    • Age removed from infobox and bio. P&T slightly tweaked. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
Biography - Disciples of Ragnos crisis
  • Does the game identify the Falcon as a YT-1300 freighter or say that it was famous?
  • Based on recent review of the R5 droid, does the game call the droid an R5 unit? If not, it will need additional sourcing.
    • Yes, it specifically calls it an "R5 droid." QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Does the game identify his fighter as a Z-95 Headhunter?
    • The game files for the ship refer to it as a Z-95. Also there exists a cheat code "spawn Z-95" that spawns Jaden's ship. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Do we know that the Blenjeel merchant ship was attacked by an Interdictor-class Star Destroyer. The article for the attack calls it an Immobilizer 418 cruiser, and the page for the Star Detroyer does not have Jedi Academy as an appearance.
    • The game refers to it as an "Interdictor cruiser." I'm not that great with starship designations, so I'm unsure which one it refers to. Any ideas? QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Does the game provide the full name for the T-65 X-wing starfighter?
  • "The battle was challenging for Korr" How does the game present this information?
    • Mostly just game mechanics, nothing really IU that states so. Reworded. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 16:38, October 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • Is the name "Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser" used by the game?
    • It's called an "Imperial dreadnaught" in the game. I've constructed an external ref; take a look if it works. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Does the game identify the ship at Korriban as an Imperial II-class Star Destroyer. Sourcing something as an Imperial II-class ship is a little more difficult unless the source specifies it.
Personality and Traits
  • "He preferred to keep his hair short, but he had let his facial hair grow out by 41 ABY, and he styled it in a neatly trimmed goatee," As you sourced the 41 BBY date to another reference in the biography, I am assuming the same needs to be done here as well.
  • "Korr was struggling with doubt regarding his role in the Force." I am a little confused here, what does the image under eternal thinker have to do with this phrase?
    • I was struggling to find any relevant images to illustrate that section to be honest. The idea was that the picture was a symbol of the Force, and Jaden struggled with finding his role in the Force…yeah, whatever. Removed. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Under Other talents you have two straight references to Crosscurrent. Is one of them supposed to be something else or is it just a duplicate?
Equipment
  • Under this section you source 41 ABY to Crosscurrent which is inconsistent with how you sourced it earlier.
BTS - Character development
  • "Korr was originally going to be called Atton Rand..." For this one, do we know that Atton Rand was going to be the name of the main character? He could have been Rosh Penin or somebody else unless we have something more than the Easter egg quote to back that up.
    • Removed that part and the quote. There's no actual official word on this, AFAIK. Only widespread fan assumption that he meant Jaden. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Why is reference 11 (it appears to be dating the Battle of Hoth) used as a source in the second paragraph of the Character development section.
  • For the second paragraph of the character development section, I don't believe the sources provided are sufficient to back up that entire paragraph.
    • I fail to see the issue here. Are you talking about the first part of the paragraph? Which discusses how he went unreferenced? Well, how do you source someone not appearing somewhere? QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:27, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
      • I think I misread what year the Fury novel was released and thought there were additional reference books that he appeared in before he was referenced.
  • Does the Crosscurrent novel mention a January 26, 2010 release date? I suspect that this will need additional referencing.
BTS - Character customization and appearance
  • "The first information on Korr's identity came from the 2005 reference book The New Essential Chronology, which addressed Korr as a "he," invalidating all female options in the game." I don't think you want to have the Battle of Hoth date to reference this.
  • "Although it did not necessarily specify his species, it excluded Rodian and Kel Dor from consideration, as those species are naturally hairless, only leaving Human as a possibility." Unless the novel mentions that those species do not have hair, you will need to source that to something else.
  • "such as the goatee that Korr wore as of 41 ABY" Is the 41 ABY date presented directly in the actual novel outside of any Del Rey timelines? If not, you will need to provided additional referencing.
BTS - Jedi Academy alternative ending
  • "confirmed to be proper in future Legends material" This needs to be sourced to something other than the game.
BTS - Errors and contradictions
  • "although Riptide does establish that Korr's appearances post-41 ABY are in the Iteration's body" Is the 41 ABY date presented directly in the actual novel outside of any Del Rey timelines? If not, you will need to provided additional referencing.
  • "This is incorrect, as the character does indeed appear in the latter novel." This cannot be sourced to the ERC.
  • There is some sort of error with reference 51.
  • "Through Khedryn Faal's estimation, Crosscurrent gives Korr's approximate age during the events of the novel as forty years old, which would put him at thirteen years old during the events of Jedi Academy, set in 14 ABY." Per what I said above, I don't think this an inconsistency as much as it is an incorrect estimation of his age.
  • "In Crosscurrent, Korr laments distancing himself from Valin Horn, indicating some sort of relationship between the two. After the publication of the novel, when asked what their relationship was, Kemp said that he could not reveal it yet." I don't think the referenced forum post is the correct one as I do not see any mention of Valin Horn.
  • "Riptide states that Korr entered the Jedi Praxeum nine years after the death of Emperor Palpatine, which occurred in 4 ABY, according to The New Essential Chronology." I would reference the first part of this sentence to Crosscurrent and then change then move the source into a reference. There really isn't any reason to include the source in the paragraph itself.
  • "However, the events of the Jedi Academy video game are actually dated to to 14 ABY, ten years after the Emperor's death, by The New Essential Chronology." This can't be sourced to Crosscurrent.
BTS - Ambiguous information
  • "Paul S. Kemp has stated that he intended Zeerid Korr, a character from The Old Republic: Deceived, his other novel set thousands of years before the events of Jedi Academy, to have been an ancestor of Jaden, however no Legends source confirmed that the two were indeed related." This cannot all be sourced to the tweet.
  • "Several times in Riptide, and even in certain parts of Crosscurrent before that, Kemp seemingly hints at the possibility of Korr himself being a part of Thrawn's cloning program, planted on Coruscant as a sleeper agent in his youth." As you reference Riptide and Crosscurrent, you cannot just source the entire sentence to Crosscurrent.
BTS - Canceled content
  • I'm not really seeing the point of including the Legends image in the BTS.
  • Could you add a quote to the Canceled content section? There appears to be one in the referenced interview that you can use.
  • I will give the article another pass once you look through these.--Exiled Jedi (talk) 00:36, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
Wave 2
  • Under Answering a distress call: The CSWE entry for Blenjeel mentions Korr's mission to the planet. Please adjust the game mechanics templates / BTS as needed.
  • Under Hostage rescue: The CSWE entry for Nar Kreeta mentions Korr rescuing the elders on Nar Kreeta. Please adjust the game mechanics templates / BTS as needed.
  • Under Apprehending Lannik Racto: The CSWE entry for Rax Joris references Korr's capture, which means that Korr went to Dosunn. Please adjust the game mechanics templates / BTS as needed.
  • Based on the Blenjeel, Nar Kreeta and Rax Joris entries, could you check to see if any likely related entries reference Korr going to any of the planets? You might be able to confirm more missions as official.
    • In addition to those, I've only been able to confirm the capture of Lannik Racto, based on his respective entry. None of the other optional missions are referenced in the CSWE, as far as I can tell. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:37, October 21, 2018 (UTC)
  • Under The fallen apprentice: "During the fight, the twins kept empowering Penin with life energy and augmenting his dark side abilities." Empowering Penin with life energy sounds a little too much like game mechanics. Does this mean that they were healing him? This could use to the be reworded.
  • Under Tomb of the Barsen'thor: "learning the third and final of the combat styles practiced by the New Jedi Order." You provided another reference for learning the last two styles when you mentioned it in the Power and abilities section.
  • Under Battle at the Krabbis Inn: "As the Solos prepared to leave with the sick Jedi, Korr and Arelis agreed to stay behind and cover up the mess before the Galactic Alliance Security, claiming that the Solos were never there during the fight and lying that they did not know how the Mandalorian with the intact armor had died, in order to hide the fact that the psychotic Jedi possessed such powerful abilities." This sentence is too long and needs to be broken up.
  • Under Moral Compass: "Korr always strove to uphold his orders, and he was ashamed that he had disobeyed Hamner's instructions by letting the Solos pass into the Council chambers, but he expected the couple to find a way to gain entrance anyway, and he felt that the Council deserved to listen to what they had to say." This sentence is too long and could use to be broken up.
  • Under Telekinesis, Force speed and jump: "Throughout his lifetime, Korr may have also learned Force powers ranging from Force protection, Force healing, and Force absorb to Force drain, Force rage, and Force choke." I know these are possible powers that can be chosen in the game, but the way this is being included here is speculation. I would either reword this to be less speculative or move this information to the BTS.
    • I do not really see a way to word this in a way to both preserve the ambiguity and not make it sound speculative. Moved that part to the Bts. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:42, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • Under Dark side powers: "However, after reaching the end of his vision quest, Korr accepted what his Master had been trying to tell him all along, and he knew that he would never fall to the dark side as he knew it too well, feeling secure that he would now always have control of his powers and would never subconsciously summon lightning from his fingers." This sentence is a little long and rambling. Could you break it up / restructure it?
    • Split up into several sentences. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:42, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • Under Lightsaber mastery: "Korr was highly skilled with a lightsaber, echoing his master's swordsmanship. At first, he utilized the medium style but eventually mastered both the fast and strong styles." I think reference 40 is all that is needed to source the last part about the styles. Could you move reference 5 to just source the first sentence?
  • Under A Skillful Combatant: You have most of this section sourced to both the game and the strategy guide. If there are specific portions that need to be sourced to the guide, can you source those specific parts to the guide and source the rest to the game?
  • There is an "Exceptional Jedi Apprentice" in Jedi Academy (Star Wars Miniatures) that has a similar appearance to Jaden Korr. The piece gives him a yellow double-bladed lightsaber, which is kind of inconsistent. (It was a fairly common practice in the miniature game to have pieces that resembled characters that were named elsewhere.) Could you give a brief reference to think in the BTS?--Exiled Jedi (talk) 17:58, October 20, 2018 (UTC)
    • Added it into the "Ambiguous information" section. Seems like it fits best there. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 06:59, October 23, 2018 (UTC)
Wave 3
  • Does Riptide refer to Coruscant as the galactic capital?
    • No, it doesn't. Ref note added. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:31, November 17, 2018 (UTC)
  • "Purchasing a Flare-S swoop to make his way to the outpost" Does the source refer to it as a Flare-S swoop?
  • "Korr's subsequent portrayal in Crosscurrent and Riptide reaffirmed the description outlined in Abyss, explicitly stating that Korr was a Human and expanding on more details of his appearance, such as the goatee that Korr wore as of 41 ABY, which Kemp wrote in as a homage to Katarn, signifying the fact that Korr leaned heavily on his Master's teachings during his crisis of faith." This sentence could use to be reworded / broken up.
  • "The other customizable feature in Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is the possibility to choose the hilt variation and the blade color of Korr's lightsaber at the beginning of the game and the option to build a new saber, two new lightsabers or a double-bladed one after the mission to Vjun, with in-game dialogue stating that Korr's first lightsaber was destroyed on Vjun." This sentence could use to be reworded / broken up.
  • "In Crosscurrent, the clone Alpha casts a "knowing look" at Korr and calls him "one of us," referring to the Community of clones, and the early chapters of Riptide feature a scene set on the Sith world of Korriban, in which Sith Lord Darth Wyyrlok and the Umbaran Nyss Nenn see a recording of Korr's fight with Alpha on the frozen moon." This sentence could use to be restructured / broken up.--Exiled Jedi (talk) 23:39, November 10, 2018 (UTC)
    • Addressed. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:31, November 17, 2018 (UTC)
      • It has become known to me that the INQ have somewhat refined their stance on "special refs" used to source starship classes. It seems like in many cases, those refs are no longer needed, as those classes fall under the duck test clause. Personally, I do agree with this line of thinking; I'd always thought that's how it should work. EJ, I'd like to ask you to take a look at your previous objections regarding those issues and tell me whether you think those refs I added are still necessary. I'm always open to an IRC discussion if we'll have conflicting opinions on the matter. Thank you, QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 09:48, February 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • With the above comment, I think that the following can probably use the duck test:
    • T-65 X-wing starfighter
    • Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser
    • Flare-S Swoop
  • I think the others probably need the references because they aren't as easy to duck test.--Exiled Jedi (talk) 02:16, March 15, 2019 (UTC)
Imp

Comments

The Barsen'thor

  • Nominated by: QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:57, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Because I don't like leaving things unfinished.

(0 Inqs/1 Users/1 Total)

(Votes required: 3 Inqvote(s) required to reach minimum. Additional 3 user or 2 Inq votes required to pass.)

Support

Added it to Wookieepedia:WookieeProject The Old Republic's FAN section. Good work. Fan26 (Talk) 18:46, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
  1. Fan26 (Talk) 16:18, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

Object

Fan
  • No clue how this made it almost seven months without any objections or support votes. But I digress. At the bottom of the page, under I believe either "Skills and Abilities" or "Personality and traits", the following appears: "In addition to speaking Galactic Basic Standard, the Barsen'thor was versed in many languages of the galaxy. He could understand Dosh,[2] Gand,[23] Binary,[30] Nikto[37] Jawaese,[42] Shyriiwook,[51] Sullustese, Selkath,[59] Rakata[75] Esh-kha[77] and Mandaba.[89] In addition, the Barsen'thor was a skilled pilot, successfully performing many flight missions for the Coruscant Aegis under the callsign "Guardian."[4]" Does the instance of him speaking Sullestese and Selkath occur in the same scenario, therefore both are sourced to ref 59? Fan26 (Talk) 02:16, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
    • Correct, those two languages are featured in the same mission, hence why they are grouped under a single ref. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 06:19, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
  • "Around that time, a sickness known as the Dark Plague struck the Jedi Order once again, driving Jedi Masters across the galaxy insane" This might just be my feeling, but the way the sentence is phrased is like the Dark Plague was mentioned elsewhere in the article, though this is the first mention of it. Would you consider revising the sentence?
  • "The Jedi Master was still missing five years later when an alliance of various factions was formed against the Eternal Empire." Do you think the word "against" should link to Revolt against the Eternal Empire? Fan26 (Talk) 14:23, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
  • " The Children were unwitting deep-cover agents of the Empire who shared a Force connection with the leader of the Empire, the allegedly immortal Sith Emperor Vitiate himself. " I think "unwitting" should actually be "unwilling".
    • Unwitting: adj. Not knowing; unaware: an unwitting subject in an experiment. I think it better describes their position, don't you think? QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 16:35, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
      • Good point.
  • In the "Disappearance and Death" section, the tomb's caption reads "Barsen'thor's tomb on Chandrila". I think "The" should be added to the beginning of it, since it's a title and not a name. Fan26 (Talk) 14:51, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
    • Added. If you see such minor mistakes, you are more than welcome to fix them yourself. You don't have to ask the nominator's permission every time :) QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 16:35, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
    • That's good to know, thank you. Those were the last things I saw.Fan26 (Talk) 18:46, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
  • I realized that since the character was confirmed to be male, we know which voice it canonically has. Would it be possible to get audio for the quotes where 'he' speaks? Fan26 (Talk) 16:46, November 29, 2018 (UTC)
    • I'll see what I can do, though having audio files is not a requirement for status articles, merely a recommendation. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 09:12, November 30, 2018 (UTC)
      • I'm aware, it was just an afterthought. I'm going ahead and striking this-no reason to hold up the nom with this one thing. Fan26 (Talk) 16:17, December 1, 2018 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
  • The LG places {{otheruses}} above any header templates.
  • I understand you want to avoid repetition and vary between usages of Barsen'thor/the Jedi/the Consular, but it gets somewhat confusing in some parts of the intro as I'm not 100% sure to what something is referring. Example: "Learning an ancient Force ability called the shielding technique from the Noetikon devices, the Jedi traveled from planet to planet, using the technique to sever the sick Jedi Masters from the influence of Lord Vivicar, the Sith mastermind behind the plague." Seeing as you talk about Jedi Masters in the previous sentence, it's not inconceivable that "the Jedi traveled" refers to the Masters rather Barsen'thor.
    • Made some adjustments. Please take another look. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 08:27, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
  • "the Barsen'thor participated in the fight against the Children of the Emperor." Is there/should there be an article for this particular fight/crisis/whatever?
  • "The Children were unwitting deep-cover agents of the Empire who shared a Force connection with the leader of the Empire, the allegedly immortal Sith Emperor Vitiate himself. The Children had infiltrated deep within the ranks of the Republic, their presence masked by the power of the mysterious First Son." I feel like dedicating two whole sentences to context is a bit excessive when it comes to the intro. See if you could condense this a bit. 1358 (Talk) 21:36, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
  • I made some further tweaks in the intro, particularly trimming some context I found excessive. Please have a look and see if that's okay.
  • "During the Battle of Corellia, the Consular discovered that the First Son was in fact a sleeper persona implanted inside Jedi Master Syo Bakarn" I feel like it's a bit misleading to link Sleep/Legends here, as sleeper agents don't really have anything to do with the act of sleeping.
    • I might have gotten a little carried away while trying to improve overall linking in the article. Removed. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:54, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
  • Seeing as we know the exact dates for the resurgence of the Sith Empire and the Cold War, I think it'd be a good idea to put these in the early bio to establish some sort of timeframe for the reader.
  • Before I start with the rest of the bio, please keep the location of {{Main}} consistent. Right now it's below the quote template in some places and above in others. I don't think we have any policy on this, but personally I think it looks better placed above the quote template (think of it as a header template of sorts). 1358 (Talk) 19:13, October 9, 2018 (UTC)
  • Arrival: The paragraph that starts with "Par told the apprentice the information..." barely mentions the Barsen'thor and it feels like it's too much context. See if you can trim it some. 1358 (Talk) 17:59, December 8, 2018 (UTC)
    • Reworded to focus a bit more on the Barsen'thor. I don't think that the context in this paragraph can be completely cut, though. It's all kinda necessary, IMO. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:54, December 15, 2018 (UTC)

Comments

  • Issues from the previous nomination have been addressed. Paragraph size has been significantly reduced, and some long sections have been split up. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:57, March 13, 2018 (UTC)


Unidentified Gran (Rimmer's Rest cantina) (redux review)

(0 Inqs/0 Users/0 Total)

Support

Object

Toprawa
  • I believe the Bio would do well to be divided into two subsections of two paragraphs each. You can add another quote too if available. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:17, March 29, 2018 (UTC)
    • Done. I also changed the second hireling from being a Rodian to being a Grave Tusken, based on that hirelings page. The game, afterall, is the only source that gives us an image of the character, so I think we should go off that as opposed to the novella calling him a Rodian (And none of the BG aliens in that illustration look anything close to a Rodian, so we can't say he's there, either). I don't know if any of this matters at all. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 22:56, April 9, 2018 (UTC)
      • Also, re-listening to the audio drama, 8t88 does actually call both of these guys "goons." Didn't recognize this clearly before, so I think the casting call can be accurately made based on that. The Gran is the first to speak. I want to know if you have an opinion on this before I do anything. I know what's sound to me can be (And often has been) faulty.--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:02, April 9, 2018 (UTC)
        • Are you referring to the BTS, as in asserting that this Gran character is Goon 1 and therefore voiced by Tom Keith? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:37, April 23, 2018 (UTC)
          • Yes. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 18:47, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
            • Well, you've raised like four different issues in this single objection thread (not advisable). Firstly, I'm fine with calling the second hireling a Grave Tusken. I believe this should be treated like a film, in that the video game takes canonical precedence over its adaptations. And since you raised this issue in this thread, I'm extending this objection to cover this: These two sentences are mutually exclusive: "The voice talent behind the character is unclear, however. Credited as "Goon 1," per 8t88's dialogue, the Gran was voiced by Tom Keith." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:51, September 9, 2018 (UTC)
              • Given that enough evidence concludes Tom Keith as the voice talent, that line seems to be an oversight. Given that same line of thought, there are two bounty hunters listed in Dark Forces II's cast (Daniel Bloom and Dylan Haggerty), which given the reuse of sound effects from Dark Forces and the separate casting of the Rodian voice actor, I'm inclined to believe these are the physical actors from that cutscene. I think in this case it might be less clear, as the editing of the scene has the two showing up at about the same time, though given the Gran is the only one seen clearly, I'm guessing he'd be the 1st Bounty Hunter? I guess raising more issues than what was brought up originally could be poor form, but I guess I just want to be accurate on this one (All for a nameless alien). Sorry about that. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 02:05, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
                • I wouldn't go so far as to assume either actor is necessarily the Gran, since they're presumably listed in the credits alphabetically, not by who shows up first. If you feel strongly that these are the two from that scene, you could just mention that fact, while leaving the obvious implication that one of them is this Gran. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:10, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
                  • They're credited as Bounty Hunter 1 and Bounty Hunter 2 (And as an aside, The Rodian voice is actually just credited as Greedo, heh). Also I was looking at the Wook page, and as it happens the actual game credits BH1 as Dan Bloom, whatever that means. However, I mentioned both names now as an ambiguity, and will fill out the redlinks. I don't know where Daniel came from, so I'll just Dan since I have the game materials in front of me.--Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 02:29, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
                    • Daniel apparently comes from an IMDB page. Not sure what to make of that. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 02:39, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
                      • Naming the article according to how he's credited in the game is ideal. Remember that all OOU articles should have a Bibliography section. This serves the same function as the Sources section in IU articles. List all officially licensed sources that mention the actor's name in the Bibliography. And you need to kill that redlink per FAN rules. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 14:16, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
                        • Right, I didn't want to make the page until I knew how to name it. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:27, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
                          • You still haven't properly added a Bibliography section to either of those articles. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 15:29, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
                            • Okay, so I looked at some other articles, and so what I'm asking is, is the Bibliography in this case licensed works he appeared in (Like putting Dark Forces II under the section), or would it be a theoretical official website that lists the cast of the game? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 00:23, September 19, 2018 (UTC)
                              • It's any officially licensed source (both Appearances and Sources) that mentions the subject's name. In this case, you should add this to these articles. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:04, September 19, 2018 (UTC)
  • Since you moved the article name for the cantina, this article should be moved to reflect that as well. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 14:18, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
    • I actually did not move the page and disagree with it being moved. See the Talk Page for that article, where I believe I left a note about it. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:27, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
      • I have responded on the talk page recommending the article be moved to Rimmer's Rest, and I encourage you to do so and update anything in this article accordingly that may need it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:36, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
        • I think the Rimmer's Rest redirect has to be deleted before the page can be moved back, right? I can't delete it, unless I can literally just swap the information on the two pages without breaking anything. I want to ask before I break some coding or something and make a mess. Forget that last part. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:05, September 17, 2018 (UTC)
  • It's not a requirement, but it would be nice if you could upload audio clips for the quotes that have corresponding audio files from the game and/or audio drama. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 14:20, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
  • Does the first subsection quote also appear in the Dark Forces: Rebel Agent novel? Because I'm curious about how you're formatting some of it.
  • I'm curious why you need ref 6 here. Ref 3 seems to work fine: "By the year 5 ABY,[3][6]"
  • If you changed the name of the cantina article, you should also reflect it in this article. The second image caption, for example; and here: "Arriving at Katarn's table at the Rimmer's Rest cantina..."
  • The Biography really doesn't give the impression that 8t88 double-crossed Katarn as the intro claims, rather that he gave Katarn an ultimatum and Katarn chose to do things the hard way. Do any of the sources actually say that 8t88 double-crossed him?
    • The name of the first level is "Double-Cross On Nar Shaddaa." I can reword it in the bio though. 8t88 sets a meeting with Katarn for one thing, then forcibly changes the subject and leaves him to get killed. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:27, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
  • I've rewritten much of the "sound effects" BTS paragraph. Please make sure everything there is copacetic. Also, is this line really necessary? It seems kind of trivial. Do we even know that Gran mouths move? "Due to the costume's mask, the Gran's mouth does not move when he speaks."
    • Gran mouths move since we saw them do so in the Prequels (Aks Moe and Ask Aak). I wanted to say this without going as far as to say "Due to budget limitations" or "Due to a slip on mask without any obvious animatronic parts" etc... I can remove it though if you don't think it's necessary. It's not even a glitch per say or a technical mistake, it's just that the live action cutscenes were obviously on a lower budget than the game itself. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:27, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
      • I would suggest removing it in the absence of any information like that. It would be different, of course, if we had a making-of book or something that mentioned this outright, but otherwise it's kind of just our own invention. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:10, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
  • The game should take precedence over the novella adaptations in terms of canonicity and inconsistencies, the same way a film takes precedence over its adaptations. Therefore, the game's quote should be used as this article's main quote, not the version from the novella.
    • What I think I suggested in the original FAN but was suggested I do otherwise. But will revert if that doesn't matter anymore. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:27, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
  • You need to source the last sentence of the fourth BTS paragraph (second subsection).
  • After reading the BTS, I think you should add a very brief addition to the final Bio paragraph noting that Katarn left the Gran behind, per what you state that audio drama says.
    • Doesn't "as the latter slipped away, mockingly adding that they should go out for lunch sometime" already sort of say that though? Or do you mean something more direct? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:38, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
      • In that Bio paragraph, you completely disregard the events of the game (namely that the Gran runs out into the bar area and takes up position to attack Katarn, as the BTS explains), but I don't believe the game needs to be mutually exclusive of the novella and audio drama. Can you not work them in together somehow? Like, after Katarn disarms the hirelings, the Gran runs out into the bar area to prepare to attack Katarn, but Katarn then slips away, saying they should go out to lunch sometime? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:36, September 19, 2018 (UTC)
        • This where we largely start to get into potentially confusing territory, given story and gameplay segregation. The novella, given it's writing, and the audio drama rather clearly, forgo the encounter in the open bar area entirely. Obviously this is largely done in the non-game sources for condensing the story. Other elements of could be seen as Porg, a Trandoshan in what equates to the game's second Nar Shaddaa level, despite Trandoshans not appearing in the game until the last Sulon level. Obviously, if Dietz had kept all alien bounty hunters on NS to those in the game it would have been rather odd to see him exclusively fight Gran, Rodians, and pigs. The limited alien species is simply a game limitation since they can only afford to create so many models (Which on an unrelated note, is something Mysteries of the Sith fixed to an outstanding degree, actually). Likewise with combat scenarios, there's only so much that can be done with the prose crossover. If I was to write in the Gran fighting Katarn in the bar, I couldn't assume his survival, largely because as a part of gameplay sections in articles, plus the game's own morality system in regards to killing enemies, 100% game completion (As well as the necessary completion for the canon Light Side ending) would require the Gran's death. Not only that, but there's a second gran in the bar, and killing both of them triggers a line of dialogue from the bartender, again furthering such narrative issues that arise from the story in the game's cutscenes, the story in the gameplay, and the adapted story of the novella and audio adaption. Unfortunately, there is little that can be reconciled between the sources in this case. So either we use the game's actual, player dependent gameplay as the go to, or defer to the adaption on the reasoning it's two different sources with the same information, where we could perhaps say that given a 2 Sources vs 1 Source, we could go on a majority ruling as to what event transpired. Or we could go with the game. Differences and different player outcomes can be further detailed in the BtS. I can write whatever you'd think will be the most suitable conclusion for the article's bio. Personally, I like the way it is, with it being more open ended as to whether the Gran died or not, given the circumstance of gameplay/story segregation (Which may contribute to why, perhaps, this was never discussed much beforehand). --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:48, September 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • I really don't understand what this is supposed to mean. Can you clarify? "...though it infers the former via a lack of a mention otherwise" Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 15:19, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
    • Eh, just a little blabber, so I'll kill it. Ideally, it meant that the novella gave the impression he was speaking basic since it made no other mention otherwise. Unlike say, how in the audio drama, a Gamorrean's English speech is overlayed pig squealing, to tell the listener that the conversation is being translated for the audience's benefit. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 01:38, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
      • But he does speak in the novella, I'm presuming? So it's fair to just say that he's speaking Basic there if his dialogue is presented in plain English (which is what Basic is). That paragraph of the BTS should mention that he also speaks Basic in the novella, then. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:09, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
QGJ
  • I would like to see ref 2 elaborated upon. Why can that period be narrowed down to 4 ABY?
  • The intro calls Katarn a "Rebel agent" during the events of the game, while the bio calls him a "former Rebel agent" First of all, this is insconsistent. Second, the intro is incorrect, as there was no Rebel Alliance anymore in 5 ABY, despite what the Dark Forces books say. Finally, some context is needed as to why Katarn is called a "former" Rebel agent in the bio. It could be because he left the Alliance, or it could be because the Alliance was reformed into the New Republic, as I mentioned previously. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:44, October 17, 2018 (UTC)
    • Read it again: The intro does not state that Katarn was an agent in 5 ABY. The agent status is brought up before the 5 ABY date is mentioned, because given that the Gran says the first encounter happened a "few" years before their renewed encounter in the bar (See first bio quote), we know that event did not take place in 5 ABY. Generally, "few" can be roughly said to be at the least three years (albeit not exact). This would, if anything, place Katarn during the Dark Trooper crisis, during which he was a Rebel agent. The bio reiterates this, in fact. The 4 ABY date, by word, is written as "by 4 ABY," indicating that the event happened by the year 4 ABY, but not during 5 ABY. I can try to add some context for the "former" part later in the bio, though the detail I feel pertains more towards Kyle than the Gran, and this article is about the Gran. I could just say "former agent" maybe, and leave out the Rebel part? Katarn's allegiance isn't extremely clear, given through dialogue, the fact that Jan happens to find him on Nar Shaddaa, and the fact his mission to Nar Shaddaa seems to be of a completely personal nature. The fact that the book is flat out called "Rebel Agent" is pretty confusing in this regard, though given everything after Nar Shaddaa is a New Republic mission, he's apparently an agent again from that point forward. I'll find a way to explain the former part. I can also expand on the ref given what I've mentioned above, though. If that makes sense. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:26, October 30, 2018 (UTC)
      • Regarding the "Rebel agent" part, I was mainly talking about the last sentence of the intro. The sentence talked about the mission to Nar Shaddaa and specifically referred to Katarn as a Rebel agent, but you've now changed that part. Also, if the sources are inconclusive regarding Katarn's status as an agent, then how can we speculate that he was a "former" agent? Maybe he never officially left Rebel Alliance/New Republic service, and just took a leave of absence to deal with some personal stuff. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:49, November 4, 2018 (UTC)
      • Regarding the dating. It doesn't matter that the Gran says it was a few years back, it's only an approximation on his part. The ref note specifically says that their first meeting occurred after the Battle of Endor, which we know took place in 4 ABY. We also know that their second meeting took place in 5 ABY, therefore the first meeting must have already taken place by that point. We have thus narrowed down the date of the first meeting to a period between 4 ABY - 5 ABY. However, if we also know that Kyle worked for the Rebel Alliance during their original encounter (as the bio implies), we can narrow the date further down, since we know that the Rebel Alliance was reformed into the New Republic also in 4 ABY, one month after Endor. That's the logic that I want to see explained in the ref note. Instead of just saying "this period corresponds to X, according to NEC." NEC doesn't spell out that train of thought, that's a logical deduction on our part. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:49, November 4, 2018 (UTC)
        • Looking over it I don't know why exactly we concluded it was after the Battle of Endor, other than I guess the "three months" to heal bit (Which I suppose could be argued the same way as the "few years back" quote). But the Gran's mouth is the only thing we have as far as a date. I'm guessing that conclusion was made since I think three months before the book begins is still after the Endor battle, but that would still be by that time, since this three months could have also been years ago. It's not horribly clear. All we really know I guess is that the confrontation took place before the book's start. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:20, November 14, 2018 (UTC)
          • The thing is, we don't know how many months into 5 ABY the events of Jedi Knight take place. For all we know, it could be halfway through the year, in which case "three months ago" would still be in 5 ABY. Also, this means that the date in the first sentence of the bio could be wrong. The Gran could have been doing something else in 4 ABY and only became a bodyguard at the start of 5 ABY. Thus, you can't say that he was a bodyguard "by 4 ABY." That date could work if we could verify that Katarn was still a Rebel agent at the time (i.e. the Rebellion still existed). However, if the quote in the first section is all the information we have on their first encounter, then it's not really evident from the quote alone that Katarn was still a Rebel agent at the time. It could have been a freelance job taken by him. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 20:18, November 24, 2018 (UTC)
            • That's true. I'm guessing there was a reason that 4 ABY was accepted in the first place. According to the original nomination page Tope said something about sourcing something to the NEC (Which I have, so I must have looked too), but then we also went off the "several years" comment. But you don't seem to consider that relevant, I think (?). Though I guess even if it was several years prior, then he switched over careers at least by 5 ABY then, and not 4. So then I guess 4 ABY was used to differentiate the years, I guess, though yes I guess he could have remained a bodyguard, up to at least 5 ABY. So yah I think I see what you mean. We don't know if Kyle was in fact a Rebel agent at the time, or if he was on some off time, or if it was even a Rebel sanctioned mission (Although, given the timeline the books offer, Kyle would have unlikely encountered the Gran while or before his time as an Imp Cadet, and not before his mission to Danuta, so he would have had some work as a Rebel under his belt by the time of the Gran encounter...likely. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:44, November 26, 2018 (UTC)
              • I've taken the liberty to reword the ref note so it better gets the point across, IMO. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 23:33, December 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • Ref 7 needs to be fully linked and given proper context. After the conclusion of the Gran's cutscene in the game What game? Reference notes are basically mini-articles in and of themselves, so they should not require the reader to look at the rest of the article to know what you are talking about. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:49, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

Comments

Zygerrian/Legends (redux review)

  • Redux comments: Article was Reduxed per INQ 96.
  • Date added: October 23, 2018
  • Changes since last review: diff

(0 Inqs/0 Users/0 Total)

Support

Object

Imp
  • Duplicate linking. Imperators II(Talk) 23:22, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • Some overly long sections should be split into subsections, and longish paragraphs should be split into several smaller ones. Imperators II(Talk) 23:22, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • Formatting in "Development:" missing punctuation and spacing, Wizards.com articles should utilize quotes instead of italics. Imperators II(Talk) 23:22, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Some preliminaries:
    • You can pretty much just use {{Shortstory}} for reference 49. I don't think the featurettes are italicized, are they?
      • Adjusted. No, I don't think they should be. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:08, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
        • Good, but notice the italics formatting in the title of all the TCW Blu-ray releases (found in their respective articles). Please format all instances as such in this article. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:38, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
          • It seems like {{Shortstory}} is hardcoded to display the entire book name in italics, no matter how you play around with the bformatted parameter. I wasn't able to format the title correctly using the template, so I had to get rid of it. I've adjusted some of the other titles in the sources list, as well. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:57, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
            • The template has now been adjusted to accommodate this, and I've added it in. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:16, March 1, 2019 (UTC)
    • In reference 56, this isn't going to work: "Galaxy at War, The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia and other sources spell the name of the species as 'Zygerrian.'" Either identify these "other sources" by name or reframe the reference note. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 05:53, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
  • In the Sources list...
    • CSWE needs to employ CSWECite for those entries
    • The TCW Episode Guides need to be titled correctly
      • Formatted according to the title of the web page. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:57, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
    • The Encyclopedia entry need to be formatted properly. "brezak" and "blixus" are not capitalized, for example. Go through and check all of them for accuracy. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:26, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
      • Only those two were lowercase. Adjusted accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:57, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
  • Images:
    • This has some pretty poor cropping going on since the original uploader apparently couldn't hold the comic straight in their scanner bed. For example, you can see the borders and white space on the left and bottom, and some of the text is still visible in the speech bubble. But more concerning for me is that you can see how crooked it is, probably because it wasn't laying flat while being scanned. I would strongly suggest uploading a new version if possible. Even if it's not as high resolution because you're getting it from a pdf or something, I'd still prefer straightness over size.
    • This isn't digital. It's a physical scan from the ALTA TPB. A digital version will be sharper though not as large resolution, which is still preferable. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:46, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • What planet? The only planet introduced thus far in the article was Kowak in the preceding section. "As such, a slave market thrived on the planet."
  • Who considered them this? "...they were still considered an advanced civilization."
    • I see you're adapting this from the intro quote, so I've amended the sentence to satisfy this objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:49, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • You're going to need to show me where GG9 says the following, because I don't see it in the book:
    • "Zygerrian society centered around the Zygerrian Slavers Guild"
      • It looks like you could/should actually source this to Star Wars: The Clone Wars 2, judging from the "Early history" quote, unless there's a more direct reference somewhere. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:34, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
        • Reworded. That was perhaps my own extrapolation based on the available info. No source states that outright, and the quote from The Clone Wars 2 must refer to the "Slave Empire," per evidence that I've now found in Friends Like These. See the response below. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
    • "Founded centuries before the Clone Wars" -- In fact, GG9 actually says the formerly secret Guild went public shortly after the Empire legalized slavery
      • Turns out, Friends Like These actually establishes the chronology and the relation between the Slave Empire and the Slavers Guild; a detail which I admittedly overlooked. Made adjustments according to that info and worked in the GG9 details. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • Have you used the exact punctuation from the Blu-rays for the TCW quotes?
  • Is it "Royal archivist" or "royal archivist"? The article isn't consistent. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:31, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • I want to confirm that all of this can actually be sourced to that episode: "...and the Zygerrians were feared in spaceports across the galaxy, earning fame for their history of violence, piracy, slavery, and war." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:49, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
    • This comes from Galaxy at War. Moved the ref note accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:22, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • Do the "Kidnapped" Blu-ray captions actually capitalize "Slaver Empire" in the "Allies of the Confederacy" quote (this goes back to the previous objection)? If so, I would suggest capitalizing all uses of that term in the article.
    • No, they don't. The term "Zygerrian Slave Empire" is always capitalized when used in its full form. Variations of it, like the "slaver empire" and "slave empire" are not capitalized in the subtitles. However, Friends Like These capitalizes "Zygerrian Empire." I've adjusted the usage of those terms in the article accordingly. I've also made an effort to disambiguate the mentions of the Galactic Empire and the Zygerrian Empire, as it was a bit confusing which Empire I was referring to in each particular case. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:40, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
  • Is the "Scientel's auction" quote supposed to say rich?
  • I feel like the article should introduce Molec here by his title; namely, he's the Zygerrian prime minister and Captain of the Guard. "The Queen's unwillingness to kill the Jedi prompted her aide Atai Molec to invite Dooku to Zygerria..."
  • The article is inconsistent on whether it's "Royal guard" or "Royal Guard"
    • Friends Like These, which is the most recent source, spells it fully lowercase. Adjusted accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • I don't have immediate access to Insider 89 to see what it says, but why do you write "essentially" here? I ask because GG9 says that this Decree does legalize slavery under certain conditions, not essentially. "...after the Imperial Decree A-SL-4557.607.232 essentially legalized slavery under certain conditions"
    • Insider 89 refers to a "qualified legalization of slavery under Decree...". I've removed the word "essentially."QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • Who considered them this? If the source doesn't literally use the term "considered," just say the statement outright: "...the Zygerrians were again considered the most infamous slave traders in the entire galaxy." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:13, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
    • The source is a POV report, so I've adjusted this accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
      • With that change, you need to go back and adjust that sentence for linking and name mention, as it now becomes the article's first mention of Screed and "Emperor." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:47, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
        • Adjusted in relation to the mention of Screed. The Emperor is already introduced in a previous sentence, so I don't think he requires further elaboration here. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:40, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
          • I mostly meant that you needed to update the link for "Emperor" to its new first mention, which I have now done. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:18, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
  • This sentence doesn't make sense. It's saying Nilo died twice, once during his first fight and then was killed by the droid. "However, Nilo did not survive his first fight and was killed by the prototype battle droid L8-L9 shortly thereafter."
  • I just want to confirm the punctuation in the Medica section, specifically that M'rch's line is all one sentence and the space after the ellipsis.
    • M'rch's line is split between two panels, with the speech bubble on the first panel ending with the ellipsis, and the other bubble also beginning with an ellipsis. I believe this makes it all one line. Removed the space after the ellipsis, though. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:13, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
      • To clarify, I was mostly concerned that the "Not yet, Scroon, wait..." part was all being treated as one sentence like that (since grammatically it's incorrectly punctuated). Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:47, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • This is typically a phrase that needs secondary referencing, as it's not usually stated outright. I'm guessing the TCW episode doesn't say this? "Zygerrians were also seen on the galactic capital of Coruscant." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:44, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • The article is inconsistent on whether it's Thanda Clan or Thanda clan
  • Reviewing note: I ended up just removing the "Friends date" reference, which I found unnecessary. Articles could use general date ranges like that for virtually anything, and readers can just understand simply that these events took place during the time of the Rebel Alliance. If they really want to see the years for the Rebellion's existence, which kind of become superfluous for this article's purposes, they can explore that article.
  • What is this unformatted dash in the Hextrophon section? Does it need mdash? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:01, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry to have to lay this burden on you, but it's always been a mistake on Wookieepedia's part to not have a general article for the overall Star Wars: The Clone Wars multimedia project. Much like we have an article for the Clone Wars multimedia project, Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, and Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, TCW should also have one to cover all of its multimedia works in one place, since that information is simply too massive to be documented in the TV series article alone. I have therefore created a redlink for this in the BTS, which you will need to fill in. It's up to you how much effort you want to put into creating it, of course, as a simple stub satisfies this objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 06:04, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • None of this can really be sourced to the three episodes as is currently being done: "George Lucas, the creator of the Star Wars franchise, liked Gilroy's comic story enough to request that it be adapted as future episodes of the show. In 2011–2012, the Slaves of the Republic comics were adapted into three episodes of the television series, titled "Kidnapped," "Slaves of the Republic," and "Escape from Kadavo." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 06:33, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
    • Sourced to the Complete Season Four feature, which states this. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:22, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • What "sources" are these? This paragraph only cites the information to a single source. "According to sources published prior to the species' redesign..." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 07:30, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
    • Clarified. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:01, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
      • Good, but I think this phrase still needs its own reference. Can it be sourced to the Blu-ray extras? "...which were published prior to the species' redesign..." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:18, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
        • The extras only mention the comic series per se, so that part can be sourced directly to the extras. I've done some tweaking to this sentence regarding Galaxy at War. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:12, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
  • Infobox-exclusives:
    • Light skin
    • Black hair
    • Yellow and blue eyes. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 07:51, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
      • Worked those into the article. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:28, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
        • Can you explain for me your rationale for calling them light-skinned? Their SWE page, which is what you're sourcing this to, doesn't say this explicitly. Assuming their skin portion is what you see on their face and hands, that looks quite gray to me, and I'm not seeing any variation between any of those three pictures on that SWE page, so I'm not sure what your basis is for saying they were "generally light-skinned." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:18, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
          • Queen Miraj, as well as Zygerrians depicted in Friends Like These look light-skinned to me. Perhaps, the Encyclopedia page wasn't the best choice for sourcing that part. Made some adjustments. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:14, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
            • Ok, but now that I'm seeing the totality of information here, along with reading what the SWE actually says, I don't agree with this statement: The Zygerrians' faces [...] were almost entirely covered with fur. The SWE doesn't say this, and if we're only going by what the image shows us, I would say very little of their face is actually covered with fur. Rather, it would appear that their face is bare-skinned, while their ears and the rest of their head is covered in fur. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:11, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
              • Please take another look. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:46, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
                • Better, though "while other individuals had comparatively lighter skin color." is still extrapolating. That statement is sourced to the Scintel SWE entry, which only shows her as having lighter skin. If there are indeed "other individuals" (plural), that needs to be referenced properly. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:52, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
                  • Hopefully addressed. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:41, March 17, 2019 (UTC)
                    • Ok, I think we need to reevaluate this whole thing, relating to their alleged fur-covered faces. I originally questioned this based on the image in the SWE Zygerrian entry, but this image makes it quite clear that there's supposed to be fur on their entire faces, even though that detail isn't so evident in other pictures. I think you need to go back to what you had originally, removing any mention of facial skin color and replacing the detail of them having fur-covered faces. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:33, March 18, 2019 (UTC)
            • You need to mention the green eye color in the infobox now. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:11, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
              • The green eye color is only mentioned in the cut content section of the Bts, as it refers to Miraj's depiction in the comic series. Since that information has been overridden by the TV series, which depicts her with yellow eyes, I don't think that this info belongs in the infobox. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:46, March 10, 2019 (UTC)

Comments

Vill Goir

  • Nominated by: QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:16, December 30, 2018 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: This VILL be an interesting read. I GOIRantee it.

(2 Inqs/4 Users/6 Total)

(Votes required: 1 Inqvote(s) required to reach minimum. No additional user votes required to pass, please consider reviewing another article.)

Support

  1. A pleasant surprise to be able to read a QGJ FAN quickly and without the need to take breaks for sleeping and eating. Good job, and I await the next behemoth. Fan26 (Talk) 05:36, January 5, 2019 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Dark Empire is not silly. It is Legend. :P Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:55, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Exiled Jedi (talk) 22:48, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  4. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 09:22, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  5. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 18:04, March 12, 2019 (UTC)
  6. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 20:32, March 17, 2019 (UTC)

Object

Fan
  • The palpatine quote in the Legacy section is missing a couple of quote marks that divide the two lines of dialogue. Fan26 (Talk) 16:40, January 3, 2019 (UTC)
Tommy
  • Are those images digital? They seem quite grainy. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 19:24, February 9, 2019 (UTC)
    • Yes, they are. That's just the quality of the DE II digital edition. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:14, February 9, 2019 (UTC)
  • I think the mention of the I-7 Howlrunner would fit better in Equipment rather than Powers and abilities.
  • Could you mention the colour of his lightsaber?
    • Done. Although I'm admittedly on the fence regarding this, seeing how Dark Empire is notorious for depicting everyone, Jedi and darksiders alike, with the same kind of blue-bladed lightsabers. This is probably caused by backgrounds being primarily red, so red lightsabers would have blended in with those. Or maybe they just didn't care. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:56, March 17, 2019 (UTC)
      • Okay, after hearing that explanation I don't really mind either. Feel free to change it back if you'd like. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 20:32, March 17, 2019 (UTC)
        • I actually do think it's best to change it back, for QGJ's reasoning. We know Sedriss, who does use a red lightsaber, is also depicted with this neutral blue in these comics, which gives us enough reasonable doubt for Goir's saber. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:05, March 18, 2019 (UTC)
  • "In 10 ABY, the Emperor met his demise once again in battle with Jedi Master Luke Skywalker and his sister, Leia Organa Solo, near the New Republic Pinnacle Base.[...][10]" The reference does not mention Luke or Leia's involvement so could you cite that bit to just the comic and then use the date ref for just the date. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 20:53, March 12, 2019 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Preliminary question: Does the comic actually say his yellow eyes are a result of his darksideness? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:45, February 19, 2019 (UTC)
    • No, not explicitly. I've made some changes to make it more ambiguous. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:02, February 20, 2019 (UTC)
      • Very well, but then I would probably suggest just moving "A light-skinned individual with a yellow glow in his eyes" into the P/T, since there's no explicit connection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:43, February 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • Does any source actually formally identify it as the "Battle of Balmorra"?
    • Yes, a number of sources do, including The Essential Guide to Droids and General Veers' databank entry. I've sourced the usage of the name in the Bts to the former book. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:55, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
      • Ok, but you don't actually need to source that, and I'd prefer if you didn't for the same rationale as the "special reference" discussion we had recently. I just wanted to make sure the term was being used appropriately in the article. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:34, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
        • I see. I remember being asked to source the names of battles previously. I suppose we no longer do that, similar to the whole starship stuff. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:09, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
  • I'd prefer a more descriptive subsection title than simply "Balmorra" Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 05:25, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
    • Does this work? Sounds a bit cheesy, but then again, so is the source material :) QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:55, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
      • I'd still prefer something a little less...editorial. I was expecting you to do something like Battle of Balmorra or something similar. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:34, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
Anil
  • Do you think the Dark Side Adept can really be considered as an affiliation? Its article suggests that it's merely a generic term to describe any dark side users.
    • According to the CSWE, Dark Side Adepts were: Members of the reborn clone Emperor's New Imperial Council, they were drawn from the ranks of the Emperor's cohorts in the dark side, trained by him, and turned into poweful practicioners of the Force. (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Vol. I, p. 168 ("Dark Side Adepts")) Based on this, it's clear that the term refers to a specific group of individuals in service of Palpatine, and our article on the topic is simply inaccurate. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 14:27, March 12, 2019 (UTC)
  • Again in Affiliations, can the Dark Side Elite be put under the Dark Empire?
    • Based on my reasoning above, I think it's better be kept as a subdivision of "Dark Side Adept." QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 14:27, March 12, 2019 (UTC)
  • Do we really need double references for this? "He was considered to be the highest-ranking member of the Dark Side Elite after Sedriss QL,[7][8]" TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 23:23, March 5, 2019 (UTC)

Comments