- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.
Contents
Gracca[]
- Nominated by: Protectorate (talk) 21:08, December 6, 2013 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: Ewok villains!
(0 Inqs/1 Users/1 Total)[]
Support[]
Object[]
She's up all night to the sun[]
Great to see you nominating featured articles, Protectorate. I will definitely give this guy and the woodsman full reviews, but for now, some preliminary stuff. Since it's your first FAnom, I'll give you some tips on formatting and whatnot that I'd normally take care of under what we call the {{Sofixit}} clause, but that will be helpful for you to do yourself. For example: In the infobox, you shouldn't precede something with a bullet unless there are multiple entries. If this guy appeared in two different eras, bullets would be needed, but since there's only the Rebellion era, you don't need a bullet.- Thanks, fixed now.
The infobox is missing one parameter. Again, definitely something I should fix myself, but ensuring that the infobox is complete is a really good habit to get into.- Should be fixed now.
{{Dialogue}} should only be used if there are more than two speakers, per the Manual of style. If there are only two speakers, use {{Quote}} --- it's not at all intuitive how to do it, so feel free to pilfer the bizarre ''"<br />"'' code from any other current FAnom.Image captions should only get punctuation at the end if they're full sentences. It looks like none of the four images in the article body have full-sentence captions, so jettison those periods!- Got it.
The link to the StarWars.com forums is dead --- Star Wars: Behind the Magic also dates the Ewoks cartoon to 3 ABY, so you could just cite that instead.- Fixed.
If he's about twice the height of an Ewok, you could list his height at ~2m in the infobox, since Ewoks are on average 1m tall. You would need the proper sourcing, of course.- Added.
Is his name "Gracca" or "The Gracca" ? Looking at some of the quotes in the article, it seems like the latter is correct. Then again, there is one quote where Wicket calls him just "Gracca," but, ya know, other wrestlers would call The Rock just "Rock" from time to time. What do The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia and "A Star Wars CELibration" have to say about it? Either way, the article currently alternates between "Gracca" and "the Gracca" without any explanation as to the discrepancy. If both are acceptable, then kicking the article off with something like "The Gracca, also known as Gracca" might be in order, but after that, the article should pick one and use it throughout for consistency's sake.Menkooroo (talk) 15:29, December 7, 2013 (UTC)- Insider calls him "the evil Gracca", but the CSWE just says "Gracca" and states, "Princess Kneesaa used a length of rope to snag the cloak and pull it from Gracca's shoulders." Based on that being the most recent source, I removed "the" and mentioned it in the BtS. Protectorate (talk) 20:52, December 7, 2013 (UTC)
A little context is needed on Bright Tree Village in the intro. Currently, when it's introduced, it seems like the reader should already be familiar with it. They may very well be, but even the most well-known (out of universe) things should be introduced with context. Even just calling it an Ewok village, like the biography does, would do.- Got it. A little context added.
There's currently some infobox-exclusive info: That he's male, that his eyes are black, and that his skin is green (the Personality and traits does mention green spikes, but not the rest of him). Everything in the infobox (save for the out-of-universe "era" field) needs to also appear in the article proper; things like eye and skin color are usually stuck somewhere in Personality and traits. A character's sex is usually introduced right off the bat in the biography and intro, with [[Sexes/Legends|Sexes]] pipelinked to male or female.- Added in.
Scroll of the Crystal Cloak is currently linked in one of the quote captions, but linking in quote captions is only necessary when the link doesn't appear in the article itself.- Ah. Removed.
Can you mention in the biography just when the Ewoks go to the Floating Mountain to retrieve the cloak? Currently, 3 ABY is only mentioned in the "years before" bit.- Should be added now.
Also, can you mention his throne? It's only referenced in an image caption.- Minor mention after his residence added.
Characters should be referred to by their last names after their first mention --- Warrick instead of Wicket aaaaaand I'm not exactly sure for Kneesaa.- Changed.
Kneesaa seems to be given context every time she's mentioned in the bio. On her second mention: "the Ewok was pulled away at the last second by his friend, Kneesaa." On her third mention: "he failed to notice one of the Ewoks, Kneesaa, using her lasso..." Since she's already been introduced as both an Ewok and Wicket's friend on her first mention, the reader already knows who she is, and this additional context isn't necessary. Only her name needs to be used on subsequent mentions.- Should be removed.
For reference [4]: Can you use {{CSWECite}}, complete with the volume and page number? Check out almost any nom on the FAN page for an example of it in action.- Added.
There are a few repetitive sentences throughout the article: "The Ewoks fled across the mountain, and Gracca pursued them until they were at the edge of the mountain." The double "the mountain" is pretty noticeable; I recommend just saying "its edge" at the end of the sentence to avoid the repetition. Similarly, in the Personality and traits: "He was even known to turn those that did serve him into crystal, as he was not careful with his power and would accidentally turn his pets into crystal on a frequent basis." The sentence mentions that he turns his pets into crystal twice and can surely be written more concisely. There was another case that I changed in my copy-edit of " Gracca was left trapped under the massive crystals as the young Ewoks left the mountain carrying away some of the crystals from the mountain." Check out the change I made.- Thanks. Made some changes, those were some ugly sentences.
I'm not... sure about the second paragraph of the P&T. That kind of description --- ears, talons, number of digits --- is usually reserved for species articles, and not character articles. Jadru, for example, only describes her hair eye and skin colors, leaving the rest for the Jadru's species article. Similarly, articles on Twi'lek characters don't need to mention their lekku, nor Rodians their snouts, etc.- So...are you saying I need to make an article on Gracca's species?
- I know it sounds kind of weasley, but I think so, yeah. We had a discussion on these kinds of species articles about a year ago, and although we didn't reach any kind of formal consensus, there was pretty widespread support for articles like Unidentified Gibbela species and Unidentified two-headed species --- that is, articles on unidentified species that have just one known representative in canon but that are definitely unique species and not just an existing species drawn with artistic license. Menkooroo (talk) 04:48, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I created an article on his species and excised most of the detail from that last paragraph. I kept mention of his beard and spikes on his head, since that is what basically makes up his "hair". Protectorate (talk) 16:33, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
- Gracca's species is now infobox-exclusive. It should be mentioned at the beginning of both the intro and the bio (pipelinked, though, since it's a conjectural name). His height of ~2m is also infobox-exclusive, and the speculative sentence "may have been a continuation of his skin off the end of his chin" should be altered to be less speculative. Menkooroo (talk) 10:37, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Speculation removed, species pipelinked. The "twice the height of an Ewok child" was already in there, but I made it explicit that he's approximately 2 meters. Protectorate (talk) 04:13, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
- Gracca's species is now infobox-exclusive. It should be mentioned at the beginning of both the intro and the bio (pipelinked, though, since it's a conjectural name). His height of ~2m is also infobox-exclusive, and the speculative sentence "may have been a continuation of his skin off the end of his chin" should be altered to be less speculative. Menkooroo (talk) 10:37, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
- I created an article on his species and excised most of the detail from that last paragraph. I kept mention of his beard and spikes on his head, since that is what basically makes up his "hair". Protectorate (talk) 16:33, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
- I know it sounds kind of weasley, but I think so, yeah. We had a discussion on these kinds of species articles about a year ago, and although we didn't reach any kind of formal consensus, there was pretty widespread support for articles like Unidentified Gibbela species and Unidentified two-headed species --- that is, articles on unidentified species that have just one known representative in canon but that are definitely unique species and not just an existing species drawn with artistic license. Menkooroo (talk) 04:48, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
- So...are you saying I need to make an article on Gracca's species?
"This implies that Gracca may be a title or the name of his species" reads pretty speculatively. I think the article would be better without it; that kind of dot-connecting is better left to the reader based on the information that the article presents.- Gone.
- Not bad at all. Check out my copy-edit for an idea of all of the crazy articles we have and that you can link to in future FAnoms. Menkooroo (talk) 04:12, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help!
OK. Two final ones: The current P&T sentence "He also had the appearance of a beard, that appeared as a continuation of his skin off the end of his chin." isn't sitting well. The double appearance/appeared stands out, and it still reads just a tad speculatively. Do you think you can rewrite it?- Just cut it down to "He also had the appearance of a green beard". Hopefully that reads less speculatively/awkardly.
Also, I wonder if the P&T should note alongside his green skin colour that the insides of his ears and wings are purple. Plus --- how about that white mane of hair?Menkooroo (talk) 04:39, December 19, 2013 (UTC)- I included a mention of the purple insides of his ears and wings. The "white mane" is part of the crystal cloak and not part of his anatomy.Protectorate (talk) 03:24, December 20, 2013 (UTC)
Jinzler[]
- A lot of the sentences in the article are fairly short and choppy, which impedes the flow of the text. While it is equally not desirable to have large, unwieldy sentences, it could be beneficial if you could combine some of the shorter sentences. For example, to illustrate my point, in the second paragraph of the "Return of the Ewoks" section the first two sentences could be combined as follows: "Gracca spied the two Ewoks climbing the mountain after overhearing their conversation and in an attempt to get rid of the intruders, he blew a large cloud of crystal seeds onto the pair."
- From the introduction: "Eventually, the young Ewoks Wicket Wystri Warrick, Latara, Kneesaa a Jari Kintaka, and Teebo arrived on Floating Mountain to retrieve the cloak." It would be useful if you could mention that these events took place during 3 ABY, because at the moment there is nothing in the introduction to indicate at what point during galactic history any of the events described took place.
- "Unfortunately his attack missed and ran him headlong into a forest of towering crystal which toppled upon him." The use of the term "unfortunately" here is a bit POVish, as from the perspective of the Ewoks this was fortunate. Could you please rephrase this in a manner that is more neutral?
- "Gracca was left trapped under the massive crystals as the young Ewoks left the mountain carrying away some of its crystals." The use of the word "crystals" twice in this sentence makes it sound a bit repetitive. I appreciate that there are not necessarily a lot of synonyms for "crystal", but could you please consider rewording this.
- "At some point, he learned of the Ewoks of the forest moon." Could you please add some brief additional context here on the Ewoks.
- "In 3 ABY, the Ewoks used their skin gliders and headed towards the Floating Mountain. I think that it would make more sense to mention the 3 ABY date in the first sentence of the paragraph rather than here, to provide clarification as to the timing of the point at which Wicket and Latara took it upon themselves to recover the cloak.
- From the BTS section: "Gracca did not appear again in the cartoon, but the character was given an entry in The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, which reveals that Gracca was trapped under the crystals forever." The "trapped under the crystals forever" element of this sentence is fairly opaque and it would be beneficial here if you could clarify that this is in reference to his fate depicted during the events of The Crystal Cloak.
- Nice work, its always good to see some Ewoks nominations. --Jinzler (talk) 14:04, March 30, 2014 (UTC)
Comments[]
Vote to remove nomination (Inq only)[]
- Per a new rule passed at a recent Inqmoot, since the article's nominator has been inactive for over a month and objections have gone unaddressed for over a week, the nomination is eligible for removal. CC7567 (talk) 15:36, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
- IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 01:16, April 19, 2014 (UTC)
- Sad to see him go. Cade Calrayn 17:06, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
- Green Tentacle (Talk) 17:08, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
- Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:24, May 4, 2014 (UTC)