Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Ulic Qel-Droma (second nomination)

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Ulic Qel-Droma

• Nominated by: IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 02:20, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
• Nomination comments: Do your worst.

(3 Inqs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

1. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 00:19, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
2. Menkooroo 02:18, March 19, 2012 (UTC)
3. Plagueis327 02:53, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
4. Cavalier One^{(Squadron channel)} 21:53, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
5. Now do Exar Kun's article!—Jedi Kasra (comlink) 18:45, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
6. CC7567 ^(talk) 07:53, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
7. Ended my tl;dr streak today and finished reading. Good job. :P JangFett ^(Talk) 03:30, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Object

Star

Quick skim through:

• In the meantime, Qel-Droma became well known by the Alderaanian nobility, who largely disapproved of whatever he did and looked upon him with disdain. Why did they look at him with disdain? What did he do?
  • Source doesn't elaborate. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 16:35, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 00:19, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
• Amanoa, a Force-sensitive herself, was hesitant to work with such young Jedi, but Qel-Droma quickly dismissed her concerns. Maybe go into detail as to why she was hesitant to work with young Jedi, and how Ulic dismissed her concerns?
  • Expanded. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 22:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
• After the slaying of Satal Keto, Qel-Droma returned to within the Iron Citadel with his new flame, Aleema. While Qel-Droma recuperated from various injuries, Keto gave him a powerful Sith amulet which had originally belonged to Satal. Maybe reword this so that it specifies that Aleema's last name is Keto as well?
  • Fixed. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 22:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
• As Toq and Cay went off to deal with the guards, Sunrider tried to convince Qel-Droma to leave Empress Teta with her, as she fended off Keto's dark illusions all the while. Again, maybe clarify that this is referring to Aleema Keto?
  • I don't think it's needed. Satal is dead by that time, Aleema is the only Keto left. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 22:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, you're right. The clearup of the previous sentence makes this complaint moot. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 00:19, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
• Upon learning the Force Harvester's location on Raxus Prime from Qel-Droma's spirit, Dooku had the Harvester dug up, and began to charge it using a number of unsuspecting Republic targets. Does the source mention why Ulic would disclose that information, especially since he died as a redeemed Jedi? Did Dooku trick him into it? Is it an echo of Ulic's time as a Sith that Dooku was speaking to?
  • The New Essential Chronology doesn't elaborate. I was kind of confused too. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 16:35, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
    • Damn you, vague, unclear and confusing EU sourcebook! :P StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 00:19, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
• The Jedi, having learned of Dooku's use of the Force Harvester... How?
  • Addressed. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 22:59, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

That is all. StarNeptune^{Talk to me!} 01:21, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Wars

• In the bio, the first indication of a timeline comes in the "Trouble on Onderon" section. I'm wondering if you can give approximate dates to his birth and childhood, even if just "in the years before the blah blah." Currently, a casual fan could read the first section of the bio and not know in which era it took place.
  • How does it look now?
• Tott Doneeta's full name is dropped a lot in the article --- eight times in the bio, and four in p&t/p&a. For someone who shows up so often, is the full namedrop necessary so many times?
  • Shaved off a couple full name drops. Still, I only tried to use his full name when he hadn't been mentioned for a while, because it kinda seemed wrong just to call him "Doneeta" when he hadn't been there in a little bit.
• Jinzler recently added two sources; any new info there? Menkooroo 03:37, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • Doesn't seem to be.
• The second paragraph of "Attack of the cultists" has the same ref (currently ref [12]) twice in a row. Was the latter ref supposed to be something else, maybe whatever reveals that Ommin had a disease? I guess that needs to be sourced to something, since his article doesn't mention a disease and claims that his flesh decayed under the weight of the dark side. Maybe this disease should be redlinked, too.
  • Nothing weighty like that. Just a mistake is all :P He didn't actually have a wasting disease, and the dark side was decaying him, but it didn't seem like the proper place to get into that stuff right there.
• I pipelinked Force sight to the part where he uses the Force to see where his eyes cannot. If this is appropriate, could it be mentioned in Powers and abilities?
  • Mentioned.
• The new Jedi in the second paragraph of "Battle with the dark side" kind of come out of nowhere. Could they be introduced earlier as arriving with the rocket-jumpers and Nomi? Menkooroo 02:02, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, he doesn't seem to encounter them until then. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 00:40, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
    • Yeah, I guess mentioning them in the previous paragraph would be a little weird. Could the second paragraph at least mention why they're there; ie, identify them as part of the Republic team?
      • Done.
• Not an objection, but I split a long paragraph in two in the last sub-section of "Fall." Take a look and see if it's OK. Menkooroo 21:54, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
  • Looks fine. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 14:39, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
• I've added a few redlinks; it's currently one over the limit with four.
  • Killed one, will get the rest later.
• "Schemes" mentions that the Senate is captive, but this could imply something as simple as captivation --- can it be explicitly stated that they're under a Sith spell? Menkooroo 02:22, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
  • Done.
• I'm wondering if the information in "Legacy" can be presented chronologically. I think it would probably be OK to introduce his tomb early on but not mention the Dark Reaper and the infiltration of the tomb until after the Vima/Zayne/Gnost-Dural stuff. Since proper chronology should always be the goal, can you give it a try and see how it looks?
  • Check it out now.
• Since the NEC also has an in-universe equivalent, do you think it's noteworthy at the end of "Legacy?"
  • Mentioned.
• The first two paragraphs of the P&T end with very similar sentences about his underestimation of the dark side being his downfall. Any chance they could be combined to avoid repetition? Menkooroo 18:27, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
  • Reworked it. Check it out. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 21:37, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
• Hair, eye, and skin color should be somewhere in the article, per the 2011 Mofference's consensus of no-infobox-exclusivity. Sith Empire (Great Sith War) is also only linked to in the infobox; I'd add it to the intro and bio myself, but I trust you much more than me to be able to correctly distinguish between it and the Brotherhood of the Sith. :)
  • Mentioned.
    • Go for Sith Empire (Great Sith War) too. Also in the intro if it's possible.
      • Linked to it. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 02:10, March 19, 2012 (UTC)
• The BTS seems to conflate Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game (WEG) with the Star Wars Roleplaying Game (WOTC). You could probably fix this without changing the sentence by simply linking to roleplaying game.
  • Fixed.
• The interview with Tom Veitch revealed that he originally wrote a different conclusion to Ulic's saga, and that he liked it better than what actually came to be (as written by Anderson). Could this be mentioned in BTS?
  • Mentioned.
• In the BTS: Per my own instinct as well as precedents, I believe that the differences between the comics and the audio adaptations should be explicitly spelled out. If they're as minor as dialogue differences, a single sentence would do, but if they're more major, I think the article should explain how. The precedents I'm thinking of concern non-canon info (Executor and Wedge Antilles), but conflicting canon info seems like a slice from the same pie. Currently, I feel like there's missing info. With that said, are the differences enough to warrant a twoconflicting template?
  • Edit: Here's a better precedent on the differences between two versions. Does it make sense, or am I crazy? Menkooroo 04:26, March 18, 2012 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure about this. I went case-by-case through the continuity differences, and the ones I included are the only ones that are really somewhat substantial and, in my view, warranted a mention in the BtS. The differences that I don't mention are really minor. If you want, I can make it more comprehensive.
      • If they're pretty minor differences in dialogue or actions in battle or whatever, could we just get a sentence or two explaining that, similar to what's in the BTS of Gudb? Gudb states "...the inconsistencies are limited to minor changes in dialogue." Something a bit less vague than the current "discrepancies in the telling of his exploits" would probably do it.
        • Check it out now. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:27, March 19, 2012 (UTC)
          • Good stuff. One remaining objection above.
• A couple of categories seem off: "Pre-Ruusan Jedi Masters" and "Jedi Guardians." The latter isn't mentioned in the article itself.
  • Changed.
• And finally: the Wikipedia link in "External links" redirects to "List of Star Wars characters;" a little digging reveals that a Wikipedia editor turned the article into a redirect just over one year ago due to a lack of notability. With that in mind, linking to Wikipedia here might not be appropriate anymore. Alternatively, you could write the Wikipedia article and include proof of notability, but I won't ask you to do that. :P
  • Too much work! Removed.
• That's all from me. I want to note here how well-done this article is. You always write great articles, but I think this was your best work. My copy-edit was mostly just linking. This was a truly fantastic effort, and I always love seeing such iconic SW characters --- that is, characters who have (at one point had :P) their own Wikipedia articles --- featured. Makes me want to write Cade. Menkooroo 03:08, March 18, 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks. :D IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 21:05, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Jangeth

• I know you're not a noob, but could you reload your infobox? :P
  • Done.
• "Ulic Qel-Droma was, during different times in his life," I don't know if it's just me, but it sounds awkwardly by stating "different times in his life." Possibly changing that word could help make this sentence flow better. "parts of his life" maybe?
  • Changed. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 23:12, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
• Pretty good so far; I'm at Switching Sides. JangFett ^(Talk) 18:12, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Attack of the Clone

• I hate to be a stickler about this, particularly for an article of this size, but just judging by the intro there's still linking problems—overlinking by my finds, but potentially underlinking as well. I would normally fix linking under {{Sofixit}}, but for an article this size, it's your responsibility. :P Please check the rest of the article to make sure it's in top shape before I continue my review. CC7567 ^(talk) 21:32, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
  • I went through the article pretty thoroughly, and I fixed whatever I found. I apologize if I missed anything. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:51, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
• If this is where Qel-Droma trained with Jeth, it's probably worth mentioning somewhere in the body.
  • Mentioned.
• "where he watched as Cay removed the arm of a nearby droid to use as a replacement for the one cut off during the battle": is this related to cybernetics? If so, it needs to be linked here.
  • Linked.
• "Although Null's dark power sapped some of Qel-Droma's strength, the Jedi Knight": whoa, when did he become a Knight? Or did he become a Knight? This isn't very clear here, so please clarify when his Knighthood began.
  • There's no one point where it clearly delineates when he becomes a Knight. He seems to be past his training period at this point, so I'm referring to him as a Knight.
    • Even if that's the case, it would be good to confirm it directly for the reader, so that there isn't confusion like I encountered. Adding something to the beginning of the section like "By this time, Qel-Droma had finished his training/become a Knight of the Order/something else that's still accurate" might help. (Is there really no source material that confirms when he became a Knight?) CC7567 ^(talk) 07:11, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
      • Done. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 22:30, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
• "Dace Diath and Ulic Qel-Droma, during the climactic battle of the Naddist uprising": is "Naddist Uprising" an official name for the event? If so, it should be capitalized as such. When the full "Freedon Nadd Uprising" appears, it's capitalized, but otherwise it's just "Naddist uprising," so please check for consistency throughout the article.
  • Made consistent. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 00:04, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
• I'll continue with "Fall" once these are addressed. CC7567 ^(talk) 06:13, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
• Will continue with "The Sith War" soon. CC7567 ^(talk) 07:11, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
• "Mandalore the Indomitable took the opportunity to swing his weapon at the Sith Lord": At the time of the Duel on Kuar, is Qel-Droma considered a Sith apprentice or a Sith Lord, or both? You say earlier that Kun is the Dark Lord and Qel-Droma his apprentice, but here it says he's a Sith Lord. It's fine if source material says he was both, but that needs to be made clear, either here at the Duel on Kuar or earlier at the Second Duel in the Iron Citadel.
  • Done.
• I think it might be worth mentioning in "Death" that he passed into the Netherworld of the Force. I realize it's already mentioned in other places, but here it's definitely relevant.
  • Done.
• Great work! That's it from me. I'm off to tackle Vima soon. CC7567 ^(talk) 06:13, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Bring it on. :P IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:22, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

• Some of the Fact Files in the Sources section were released as late as 2004. Check out here for correct placement. Menkooroo 00:36, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
  • Re-ordered. Thanks for the heads-up. IFYLOFD ^{(Floyd's crib)} 01:10, February 2, 2012 (UTC)

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 05:13, July 26, 2012 (UTC)