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(Battle of T'olan)
(Archiving unsuccessful nomination)
 
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:''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wookieepedia:Good articles|good article nomination]] that was '''unsuccessful'''. <span style="color: red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>[[Category:Good article nominations archive|{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]
 
==[[Battle of T'olan]]==
 
==[[Battle of T'olan]]==
 
*'''Nominated by''': [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 18:41, July 11, 2019 (UTC)
 
*'''Nominated by''': [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 18:41, July 11, 2019 (UTC)
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**Removed. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 04:33, July 14, 2019 (UTC)
 
**Removed. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 04:33, July 14, 2019 (UTC)
 
*As far as I can see, the battle of T'olan is not capitalized in ''[[The Last of the Jedi: The Desperate Mission]]''. If you have no additional source that capitalizes it, this should be changed in the article.
 
*As far as I can see, the battle of T'olan is not capitalized in ''[[The Last of the Jedi: The Desperate Mission]]''. If you have no additional source that capitalizes it, this should be changed in the article.
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**You're right! Fixed. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 17:58, July 22, 2019 (UTC)
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***Nice, I don't think adding this is necessary, though. "''The name of the battle was not capitalized.''" [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 04:12, July 23, 2019 (UTC)
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****I think it's fine to document that in the article itself because somebody (~~me~~) already made the mistake of "fixing" it in the quote then the rest of the article. "The battle of T'olan is not capitalized" is not something that's going to survive future editing through word-of-mouth. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 19:38, July 23, 2019 (UTC)
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*****"''The '''battle of T'olan''' took place&hellip;''" I think the beginning of the intro makes perfectly clear that the article was not capitalized in any of the sources. Anyways, I believe that the Behind the scenes section is for a subject's origin, actor portrayal information, continuity issues etc., not for editor discretion. [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 12:39, July 24, 2019 (UTC)
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******Writing anything involves some discretion, inherently. I don't understand why a detail any one person finds extraneous should be automatically removed? I get that this place has a picky culture, but it's one sentence noting something we both know is out of the ordinary for ''Star Wars'', mate. What's the actual problem? [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 17:14, July 25, 2019 (UTC)
 
*Could you please quote the indirect mentions of the battle from the novels here? I can't seem to find the mention in some of them.
 
*Could you please quote the indirect mentions of the battle from the novels here? I can't seem to find the mention in some of them.
 
**''Underworld'': "He'd been left behind before. By his mother, by his father, by his brother. Each time, they'd said It's too dangerous. You'll be safe here. Each time they said I'll be back." [Here, the fact that they were wrong and died was the point]
 
**''Underworld'': "He'd been left behind before. By his mother, by his father, by his brother. Each time, they'd said It's too dangerous. You'll be safe here. Each time they said I'll be back." [Here, the fact that they were wrong and died was the point]
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**''Reckoning'': "He had lost his entire family, and though he had become a street thief and a con, he had also become a hero. He just didn't know it yet."
 
**''Reckoning'': "He had lost his entire family, and though he had become a street thief and a con, he had also become a hero. He just didn't know it yet."
 
***The mother's death was the source of the indirect mentions. To be clear, this is not intended to be an exhaustive list of mentions of the mother's death in the books. It's just the first ones that popped up right now. In preparing this article, I was more thorough with searches of "mother," "father," "brother," "family," "Trever" (to an extent), "Flumes," etc. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:31, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
 
***The mother's death was the source of the indirect mentions. To be clear, this is not intended to be an exhaustive list of mentions of the mother's death in the books. It's just the first ones that popped up right now. In preparing this article, I was more thorough with searches of "mother," "father," "brother," "family," "Trever" (to an extent), "Flumes," etc. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:31, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
*I think in ref [2], the sentence should end as "'' sometime '''around''' the first year''" instead of "'''''within'''''." What do you think?
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****I feel that considering them as indirect mentions of the Battle of T'olan is kinda stretch. I'd be fine if it was something like "the battle his mother died," or "after his mother's death on T'olan," but these quotes are just saying her mother is dead. [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 01:08, July 19, 2019 (UTC)
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*****I also feel the same way about the CSWE entry. [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 01:10, July 19, 2019 (UTC)
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******If we were to talk about the event of Mace Windu's death, we would be talking about the Showdown at Coruscant even if we didn't mention specifics like Coruscant or the identity of his opponent. With the exception of ''Underworld'', there are action words in all of these&mdash;"died," "killed," "lost"&mdash;that definitely move them away from saying "the mother is dead" to "when the mother died" by indicating the event of her death, i.e. the battle. In the case of ''Underworld'', the event of her death is implied and should not be excluded just because of the author's stylistic choice, especially when the incident from there is one of the most concrete portions of the battle's aftermath. Open to opinions from others, but I would err on the side of retaining information. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 00:10, July 20, 2019 (UTC)
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*******I think that's the problem here. A simple mention as "the battle" would be considered as an indirect mention here. "Died," "killed," "lost," and all other words you are talking about feel like indirect mentions of an indirect mention, if you get what I mean. [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 02:55, July 20, 2019 (UTC)
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********I understand your position, but I doubt a reference could be too oblique for inclusion in the Appearance list. A reference of "the battle" would be a direct mention of the battle. In this case, we are dealing with references to an event of the battle, which is indirect. In the end, if it's there, then it's there, <nowiki>{{IMO}}</nowiki>. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 03:15, July 20, 2019 (UTC)
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*<s>I think in ref [2], the sentence should end as "'' sometime '''around''' the first year''" instead of "'''''within'''''." What do you think?</s>
 
**Fine. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:31, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
 
**Fine. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:31, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
*For ref [9], I think just saying that the book establishes all clone troopers of the Grand Army of the Republic were males should be enough, instead of quoting the relevant line from the book. [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 17:32, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
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*<s>For ref [9], I think just saying that the book establishes all clone troopers of the Grand Army of the Republic were males should be enough, instead of quoting the relevant line from the book.</s> [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 17:32, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
 
**Cropped the quotation. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:31, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
 
**Cropped the quotation. [[User:NaruHina|<span style="color: #6699CC;">NaruHina</span>]] <sup><span style="color: #000000;">[[User Talk:NaruHina|Talk]]</span></sup> [[File:Anakinsolo.png|14px]] 20:31, July 17, 2019 (UTC)
   
 
====Comments====
 
====Comments====
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====Vote to remove nomination (AC only)====
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#{{Acvote}} Unaddressed objection by {{U|QuiGonJinn}}, over ten days old. [[File:TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders.svg|20px]] '''[[User:AnilSerifoglu|<span style="color: #606060">Anıl Şerifoğlu</span>]]''' ([[User talk:AnilSerifoglu|talk]]) 10:47, July 27, 2019 (UTC)
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#{{Acvote}} [[User:Xd1358|<span style="color:#336600;font-weight:bold;">1358</span>]] [[User_talk:Xd1358|<sup style="color:#336600;">(Talk)</sup>]] 10:50, July 27, 2019 (UTC)
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#{{Acvote}} [[User:Ayrehead02|Ayrehead02]] ([[User talk:Ayrehead02|talk]]) 11:01, July 27, 2019 (UTC)
   
 
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<noinclude>[[Category:Good article nominations|{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]</noinclude>
 

Latest revision as of 11:06, July 27, 2019

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