Decide if you want to keep the old wording or reword! There's no harm in either. I'd suggest either shoo-in or "Fud sang was expected to win..." since including both would be redundant. ~Savage 14:35, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
Why I'm asking for clarification on shoo-in is because the last sentence in the first paragraph of the bio sounds as if he is an underdog that is let in to allow the crowd cheer him on. In that spot, you might want to change shoo-in to expected to win. 501stdogma(talk) 14:42, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
How does it look now?
Who are the outlanders? Are they offworlders?
Yes, again the guide's terminology. Should I still specify then?
Yes, please specify if they are offworldiers or not.
How does "...the offworld pilots that would come to race..." sound?
That will do. 501stdogma(talk) 21:06, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
"He even managed to score a record race time of 03:51.921." Is this a track time of seconds and minutes taken to complete it?
Yah, when writing for Knire Dark I wasn't sure how to phrase the lap times. It's in minutes and seconds, but I wasn't entirely sure how to label it, minutes or seconds, or minutes/seconds, or something.
I would say minutes. Also, are you sure it is 03:51.921? 03.51.921 seems more likely of a time.
Again I'm writing the way the guide (Both guides actually, and the RR guide) wrote the time.
You need a 1st appearances in the Appearances section.
There is no time context in the body.
I added a year now, though I didn't add in "final decades of the Republic" again, as it just didn't really fit, though I suppose that area can be re-written too fit. Should it be specified like the intro? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 17:17, October 13, 2013 (UTC)
It's good as is. 501stdogma(talk) 12:23, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
Good work. 501stdogma(talk) 19:50, October 12, 2013 (UTC)
How is the lead quote fairly ironic?
Under the idea that, according to the guides, Sang was still fairly new to Podracing as well. As such calling other pilots rookies (whether they were nor not) could be considered to be fairly ironic. Should it just say "- Fud Sang" then? or "-Fud Sang taunting another pilot"?
Either or will do.
"Sang overcame his general lack of piloting skill with intimate knowledge of the courses on Oovo IV, making him a shoo-in for those courses. Sang memorized the layout of one of the planet's courses, however, and he became fairly successful there." The however usage here is not correct, as the two sentences are telling practically the same thing.
How does it look now?
Now you make it sound like it is a bad thing that Sang is a shoo-in for the course which he knows well...
Not a bad thing for him, no. Maybe for others? Maybe I'm just confusing myself. Perhaps the author of the Nintendo guide didn't even understand the definition of shoo-in. From the Nintendo Guide: "A shoo-in for the Oovo IV courses [Note courses here. Interesting.], Sang is a mediocre racer and of little threat[...]" Perhaps, in a way, the book contradicts itself? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 23:06, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
I think the author is misusing shoo-in. It sounds like he thinks the meaning is a person who is put into a race even though they won't win. He wouldn't be of little threat if he was an actual shoo-in. I suggest you change the wording of the article up so that it does not use shoo-in anymore, but instead reflects how Sang is as a pilot: a mediocre one. 501stdogma(talk) 17:37, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
Alright, good idea. How does it look now?
Much, much better. That shoo-in thing was confusing me soooo much. 501stdogma(talk) 20:52, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
Does Fud race on tracks other than Oova and Ando Prime? Right now you say he was good at the Oova tracks, and on some Andos, but he was only a mediocre pilot, and saved his best performances for the Oovas. Does this mean he wasn't as good on some other tracks?501stdogma(talk) 12:32, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
In the game, yes he does. He can appear anywhere, but that's more or less random draw of the AI. According to the guides, he raced on Oovo IV, and according to the GBC version of the game he raced on Ando Prime as well.
One more quick over view should be enough. 501stdogma(talk) 20:52, October 21, 2013 (UTC)
"Perhaps due to his success's on Oovo IV..." This is speculatory, and should be either phrased as a certain thing, or removed.501stdogma(talk) 00:07, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Do we know his species was unknown in-universe? Or is it only unknown to us? If the latter, you should remove words like "unknown" from the article.
Unknown to us, or rather, the Veekhoven article is considered Non-Canon, for whatever reason.
Context on Oovo IV -- planet, moon, asteroid?
"A decent pilot,..." Unclear if this refers to Fud Sang or to the warden.
Whoops, how about now?
I agree with Dogma above that the sentence in the lead about him being a shoo-in is confusing. We're told in a couple sentences that he's a decent pilot, then a mediocre one, then a shoo-in.
Now it (very) roughly should say "Fud Sang was a shoo-in meant to win despite the fact he was a mediocre pilot at best"
I tried to reword again to clarify. But now I'm confused again: we're told he was really good on the Oovo IV courses, but that he memorized one of them. Is that right? As in he didn't memorize the other Oovo IV tracks? ~Savage 12:16, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
And this problem is in the body, as well. We're told he knew all the courses, then we're led to believe he only knew this one particular course. ~Savage 12:29, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
Hm, I tried to write it as he only knew the one course. The book seems to contradict itself. Initially, it says he has a thorough knowledge of the course Vengeance, and that he was a shoo-in, and by the definition of that he was supposed to win. At the same time, it calls him a mediocre pilot who was not considered to be a threat on the course. Also, "best performances were reserved for the Oovo IV races". Not so much the "best performances", but the latter part. For the most part, the books leads us to believe he was only on Oovo IV, while the GBC version adds him to Ando Prime. So, perhaps not so much as he was specially reserved for Oovo IV, but he was allowed there, with only occasional lances elsewhere (I think the Nintendo book mentions this too, though briefly and states that such occasions were rare). I'll take the next crack at it when I can. I'm assuming you don't have either of the Racer guides? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:00, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
I finally got a chance to check the guides for the Racer game (both the Nintendo one and the Prima one). Here's how I parse it: He's a "mediocre" racer over all, but a "shoo-in" for all Oovo IV courses (Nintendo guide p. 10). He had a hard time staying on the track when pitted against professional racers (Prima guide, p. 40). Nevertheless, he was "desperate" to win against them (Prima p. 42). He knows the Oovo IV courses "like the back of his hand" (Prima guide, p. 42). From all this, it sounds like you can say he wasn't a very good podracer, but he knew all Oovo IV courses very well and was a shoo-in for all of them. This is similar to how you've worded this in the past, but for some reason, there was some mention that he was a shoo-in for only one particular course, when it sounds like the sources say all Oovo IV courses. Incidentally, the Nintendo guide (p. 95) also tells us Sang was "hyperactive," a fact not mentioned in the article as is. ~Savage 12:11, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Hm, when it came to the "back of his hand comment" I thought it meant just Vengeance. I must've read that wrong, and it would make a little more sense as far as "shoo-in" goes, though looking back, I'm still not entirely sure if the author used it right. Also, totally missed "hyperactive". I'm gonna have scan through those again a few more times just to be thorough, more so than before. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 14:19, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Check out the edits I made in my copy edit of the lead. Go through the rest of the article with those things in mind: making sure all terms are linked that can be linked (barring disambiguation pages), <s>only having one space after a period, and making sure the first term in a piped link is capitalized, like [[Podracing/Legends|podracing]]. I'll continue with the rest of the article once you get a chance to do these things. ~Savage 17:34, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
One space after a period? Are people enforcing that now? God, what an awful way to write... Pagans, the lot of ya. If ya insist. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:52, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
Well, I just did a test on the spacing issue in my sandbox (the first two paragraphs there are exactly the same, only the second has two spaces after each period). Apparently, the wiki software takes care of the spacing automatically, so I retract that objection. Continue in your philistinism as much as you please. :P I'll revisit the article soon. ~Savage 15:38, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I thought you were objecting due to a file size issue, unless it doesn't affect the byte size. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 16:02, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, alright. Though, even with that said, I think I'll wait for someone to make an actual complaint about it size-wise. It looks like you're the only one who said something about it, but only because of the auto-spacing that wikia does after editing an article. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 17:29, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
Another thing: I'd write the lap time as "3 minutes 51.921 seconds". Just a personal preference, though, so take this as a suggestion rather than objection. ~Savage 12:29, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
Mm, I thought about it, but figured that the book way of writing it seemed more, mm, factual maybe. How hard do you suggest? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 17:48, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
It's fine to leave it as is, except you need to imagine how someone would read this out loud: It's not natural to say, "three minutes fifty-one point nine-two-one seconds minutes," which is how it is now. Perhaps, "He even scored a record race time at just under four minutes, 03:51:921." ~Savage 14:41, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
Originally, "minutes" did not follow the time, as I figured reading it in seconds would've made sense. I believe under the Knire Dark nom was it suggested to add a label like minutes to the end. On the flip side, and I don't know why I'm thinking this just now, but I think I may go look at Nascar statistics, and see how those are written on like ana official site. No, it's not Star Wars, but it's racing, and for Earth bound readers like all of us, or most of us, it'd probably be more familiar. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 19:04, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
As good as it is, Sompeetalay's source blog is not an officially licensed source. Rather than mentioning him on the fact that Fud Sang was once slated to appear in TPM, we need to dig up the sources he used to make that assertion and cite them instead.
He said he was going to try and dig it up again. Though, funny enough, I don't think he knows the difference between Racer Revenge and Episode I Racer. Granted, looking back at out conversation, I tended to jump a lot of thoughts around in a nonsensical order.
The BTS is confusing: It sounds like the BTS of Ody Mandrell's article, not Fud Sang's, at least until we get to the small, purple alien. Can you clarify why the Yuzzum-like appearances of Ody is important? ~Savage 12:33, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yah... I'm not sure why I added the Yuzzum part. I think to differentiate that Fud was not based on the Purple Yuzzum but the Purple... "Fud", I guess, next to the Orange Ody. Maybe just context on who was standing next to him. I don't know. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 04:00, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, it looks like I just wanted context for the concept art, I guess because the shown piece of art for Ody is more recent, yet not his original look, and that Fud was designed sooner as opposed to earlier. I guess. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 17:46, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
I'll wait until you sort out blog stuff, since this is tied up with that objection. ~Savage 14:41, October 20, 2013 (UTC)
Well, looks like he did make it to TPM afterall... Nice seeing that taken care of. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 18:20, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
That is cool! You need to add that tidbit about Anakin having a statue of him to the bio proper (I think we can take Hidalgo's comments as this being the Fud Sang in statue form and not just another member of his species). You should also note in BTS that it was a model that made it into the final film, again per Pablo Hidalgo. ~Savage 19:40, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, and it's probably worth asking JMAS or someone else to grab a Blu-Ray screen grab of Anakin's desk to add to the article. ~Savage 19:42, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
Well I have the Blu-Ray version too :P, though JMAS/or someone else may have a better player or better screen capture stuff... It just sorta dark in that area though. Posted it in Talk Page --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 00:33, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Noticed one more thing checking the Racer guides -- the language you've used needs to be varied up a bit more. We need to paraphrase our sources, not tack too closely to their original wording. For instance, "mediocre pilot at best," "motor-mouth" and "shoo-in" are all phrases used in the original sources, so I'd like to see these phrases paraphrased here. ~Savage 12:11, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do, though for "motor-mouth" I already used "fast-talker" earlier in the article, but I can look for a new alternative still to replace "motor-mouth".
And with that said, no idea what crevass of my brain "hundred mile-an-hour mouth" came from, and I don't even think those hyphens are correct. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 15:09, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Striking support for now; the BTS is now effectively claiming that Sompeetalay's source blog named the species, and that name was later canonized. As I've stated on other noms, that's not Tim's modus operandi, so that seems extremely unlikely to me. We need to find out where the name originally came from. I'll look at the Phantom Menace Insider's Guide and report back. ~Savage 02:31, January 13, 2014 (UTC)
In Sang's case, I sort of wonder if it's actually neccesary information. Maybe I should just remove it, as while it's interesting, Sanhueli never became canon unlike Ciasi, so maybe it's just not notable? Stretching it, but until we get this whole thing figured out, it might be reasonable for the time being. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 15:33, January 21, 2014 (UTC)
With that said, I've removed the section in the BtS dealing with Tim and Ciasi (for now). I'd say that in Fud's case, it isn't really that important, because whether Tim'ss tuff is real or not, his species was never canonized anyways, unlike Ciasi. It's interesting trivia, but I do not believe it's needed for this article. If anyone objects and wants it re-added, I only commented it out as opposed to actually deleting the paragraph entirely. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 19:43, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
Works for me. Hopefully someone will be able to dig up Tim's original source eventually! ~Savage 19:10, January 24, 2014 (UTC)
"Well through his sentencing," - The sentencing? Or his incarceration?
His prison sentence
"Ultimately, it often did not matter, as Sang was not considered to be much of a pilot." - I assume that "it" is the top-speed, but you need to rephrase for clarity.
"Desperate to counter the professional off-world pilots regardless," - Regardless of what?
His skill. Added.
"Sang even challenged other racers to compete against him. Sang even had managed to gain enough racing popularity that a small statue was made in his image." - Repetition, two sentences starting the same way.
I hate it too, but been drawing a blank on what to replace it with that isn't using wordage from the Strat GUides (Which use the term motor-mouth. Jabber-jaw also sounds lame). Suggestions? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 03:15, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
"Loquacious" or "garrulous" are the literary terms. You could just go with "extremely talkative," though its kind of flatfooted in my opinion. "Highly chatty" might also work. ~Savage 13:01, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
Attempt #1 at fixing it has been taken. "Highly chatty" sounds marginally better than "extremely talkative," though. --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 15:31, January 29, 2014 (UTC)