<Graestan>	Log Time!
=-=	Graestan has changed the topic to “Inq Meeting Nineteen”
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius -i by Graestan
* Toprawa	waits, impatiently
* Tommy9281	does also
<Graestan>	Isolder.
<Graestan>	Was on probation.
<Graestan>	Darthchristian put a lot of work in during the last 24 hours.
<Toprawa>	I could kill it
<Toprawa>	He didn't impress me with not linking the references
<Toprawa>	albeit a minor thing
<Graestan>	Nowhere near as bad as it was a month ago.
<CavalierOne>	Some of the infobox is still unreffed
<Tommy9281>	I'd like to give it a readthrough first
<Graestan>	I am noticing this, as well.
* Toprawa	votes weak Kill
<Tommy9281>	he added lots of stuff
<CavalierOne>	Feels like it could be longer and more detailed tho
<Graestan>	Everyone and their brother on the page says kill.
<Tommy9281>	kill it then
<Chack-J>	Sure. Kill
<CavalierOne>	Kill
<Graestan>	I say kill, for Cav's stated reason and the fact that sourcing is sloppy still.
<Tommy9281>	settled?
<Toprawa>	let's keep this ball rolling
<Toprawa>	next
<Graestan>	Missile Boat
<Graestan>	Culator, I noticed you reverted to mistau1's version.
<Darth_Culator>	Mostly.
<CavalierOne>	It's missing WEG stats and appearances
<Darth_Culator>	Most of the stuff added was either redundant or not about the Missile Boat.
<Toprawa>	was this on probation?
<Chack-J>	Yes
<Graestan>	yes, and lacking sufficient quotes
<Toprawa>	kill it
<Eyrezer>	I will point out I've been away for 2 weeks so out of the loop with all things Wookieepedia
<Tommy9281>	dead
<Toprawa>	heh
* Toprawa	wishes he could say that too
<Tommy9281>	Nice to see you, Eyrezer
<Graestan>	I say kill
<Toprawa>	hope all is well, Eyre
<CavalierOne>	Kill - I'll see about adding the WEG stuff, too
<Chack-J>	Kill
<Graestan>	here i had no idea WEG mentioned it
<Toprawa>	is Cav our resident WEG expert now?
<CavalierOne>	Far Orbit Project IIRC, and stats in one of the AJs
<Toprawa>	cool stuff, if so
<CavalierOne>	May be more
<Graestan>	consensus is mainly to kill, from the proxies
* CavalierOne	loves WEG
<Toprawa>	the Proxies.
<Darth_Culator>	I know the Assault Gunboat got WEG mentions but I didn't know the Missile Boat did.
<CavalierOne>	Yeah, I think they provided stats in the AJ upon a reader request
<CavalierOne>	Then mentioned it in later supplements
<Tommy9281>	settled?
<Toprawa>	keep this train a-movin'
<Graestan>	oh, it's dead
<Graestan>	here's what we said:
<Graestan>	Battle of Coruscant (Clone Wars), nothing whatsoever from Reversal of Fortune, which was the only source I can remember that reconciled at least parts of both Labyrinth of Evil and Clone Wars. And if that's missing, doubtless there's stuff missing from all kinds of other works. I think this is in dire need of a source-scour. Thefourdotelipsis 23:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
<Graestan>	I tend to agree
<Toprawa>	To be perfectly honest, this article wouldn't hurt from a rewrite in some sections
<Toprawa>	particularly the intro
<Graestan>	who is the author?
<Toprawa>	Chack :P
<Chack-J>	Yeah. it was like my second FA
<Toprawa>	sorry, Chack
<Chack-J>	NP
<Graestan>	Chack, do you want us to place it on probation so you can spiff it up?
<Chack-J>	Sure.
<Tommy9281>	You mind if I fix up the image layout, Chack?
<Graestan>	alright, do we all concur?
<Toprawa>	yep
<Tommy9281>	it looks a little messy to me
<CavalierOne>	Yep
<Chack-J>	Tommy: go ahead
<Tommy9281>	cool
<Tommy9281>	green light
<Toprawa>	next?
<Graestan>	we missed one
<Toprawa>	it looks..not so good
<Graestan>	"Ebon Hawk — no refs in infobox, missing refs in BtS. Overall lacking in BtS. Just not FA-level. "
<Graestan>	I say kill outright
<Toprawa>	Is kill outright an option>
<Toprawa>	I remember someone complaining about this in a prior meeting
<Tommy9281>	I agree
<Graestan>	proxies say probation
<Chack-J>	Kill
<Graestan>	one proxy says kill
<Darth_Culator>	We have to give them until the next meeting.
<Toprawa>	thought so
<Tommy9281>	who did it?
<Toprawa>	Probation, then
<Chack-J>	Probation. My bad
<Graestan>	alright, probation it is
<Graestan>	</lame>
<CavalierOne>	Probation pending full reffing - I also think it could be expanded
<Graestan>	Sarendipity?
<Graestan>	who's that?
<Tommy9281>	Who wrote it?
<Toprawa>	Craig.
<Tommy9281>	Ahh
<Graestan>	did Clyde help?
|<--	Eyrezer has left (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<Tommy9281>	I thought you were being funny. Apologies.
<Graestan>	okay,probe that one
<Graestan>	next up:
<Graestan>	next up:
<Graestan>	probe
<Tommy9281>	same
<Graestan>	infobox sourcing
<Toprawa>	probe it
<Chack-J>	Probe
<CavalierOne>	Ditto
<CavalierOne>	No BTS
<Toprawa>	cheers for the LG
<Graestan>	the proxies say easy fixes
<Graestan>	and to poke Ataru to fix them
<Tommy9281>	Ataru says he didn't write it in the first place
<CavalierOne>	DarthLumiya did
<Toprawa>	who?
<CavalierOne>	Got me
<Toprawa>	:P
<Toprawa>	unless someone wants to volunteer to fix it here and now, probe it
<Graestan>	anyhow, I am totally leaning to probation
<Tommy9281>	probe
<Graestan>	it's too much
<CavalierOne>	Probe
<Tommy9281>	settled?
<Graestan>	oh yes
<Graestan>	one more article:
<Graestan>	I am pissed about this one
<Graestan>	it passed review not long ago
<Toprawa>	adding a P/T section should take...5 min
<Graestan>	and has NO P&T SECTION! >:(
<Toprawa>	just ask 4dot to handle it
<Toprawa>	I'm sure he won't mind
<Chack-J>	It's a non-canon toy. Does he have a personality?
<Chack-J>	seriously
<Graestan>	I still want to put it on probation to show him I am serious about him adding it
* Tommy9281	follows the crowd on this
<Toprawa>	sure, Chack
<Graestan>	the /rules/ require
<Toprawa>	something could be thrown into one
<Graestan>	it's in the FAN rules
<Tommy9281>	so…
<Toprawa>	Probing it might be a little rash
<Toprawa>	it's a very easy fix
<Toprawa>	I could do it myself, probably
<Toprawa>	Just from what the article presents
<Graestan>	if you volunteer, sure
<Toprawa>	I am not :P
<Graestan>	alright, well, I'm not forgetting this article
<Tommy9281>	Chack, you've got bullets in Coruscant Battle
<Toprawa>	Off topic, Tommy
<Graestan>	it's on "Grae probation" since you guys don't want to risk the wrath
<Toprawa>	wait
<Tommy9281>	pardon me
<Toprawa>	Can we send him a friendly request to add the section, and if someone doesnt by the next meeting, ring it up again?
<Graestan>	I will handleit myself.
<Tommy9281>	settled?
<Graestan>	so, that's it for articles
<Graestan>	now on to random agenda stuff:
<Graestan>	Rotting noms — because of their long nature, as well as the fact that they are probably topics most Inqs are quite familiar with, Corran Horn and Wraith Squadron's FANs are receiving little to no Inq attention. How do we fix this? Is it just "tough shit" to the nominator? Ataru has something to say about this, I think.
<Toprawa>	heh
<Toprawa>	he does?
* Toprawa	looks around
<Tommy9281>	He did
<Chack-J>	On the page
<Graestan>	here is Ataru's diatribe:
<Graestan>	Rotting noms: Yes, I know they're long. I know they take as much time to read as well, half of 4dot's noms put together, for example (:-P). I understand the need to have patience, I really do. I mean, nothing much is going to get passed in a week at the rate we're going. But when something is up for FA for two months and it's received one or two reviews . . . that's just unacceptable to me....
<Graestan>	...TL;DR is not an excuse. Look, we're going to have more long noms. I've kept my ear to the ground, and I know Havac's going to flood the page when he gets back in the fall. WP:NEGTC has Lando coming up. I'm sure the TOTJers will cook up something long in the next few months. GT has Thrawn and Culator's working on Kyle Katarn. These will all be over 100 KB noms. I can almost guarantee Lando...
<Graestan>	...will be more than 200 KB. The first question is: Do we want major topics on the Main Page? I tend to think that's a yes. While the Battle of Mt. Corvast is a very nice, quality article, I think that the casual reader visiting the main page will be more impressed on an well-done article on major players in canon and the EU. We should want the long articles to go on the main page, righ? I...
<Graestan>	...have nothing against the small ones, mind you. However, when we ignore the big 'uns, it takes away the incentive to write longer articles. As a writer, my thoughts are, why should I write an FA about a large topics when nobody's ever going to approve it? I'm sure, like many other FA writers, that I'm not in it for the glory of having "teh largeset artical on Wookieepedia" but it's...
<Graestan>	...frustrating to have a stagnant nom. I'm sure many of you can attest to that. For a fraction of that effort, I could write a dozen more articles on minor topics and get them featured in a fraction of the time. If it's an issue with the nominator, that's all good and well, but we shouldn't use our laziness as an excuse to not pass long articles. It sickens me to see noms from mid-June still...
<Graestan>	...on the page in late July . . . and not even the long ones. I wish I had a brilliant solution to this. I've thought about it, but I know the more relentless copyeditors will insist that everything gets as many thorough reviews as possible. Trying to match that demand for spotless quality vs. time doesn't necessarily work out well. I have two suggestions, though. The first is that any Inqs...
<Graestan>	...try and skim over the articles shortly after they're nominated-as Graestan has done with Wraith Squadron-and remark on any big things. Those will take the nominator some time to fix anyway. The second suggestion is to break the review up into segments, as Jorrel has done with Corran Horn, and just review a little at a time. Alternately, you could review some of these in IRC moots if...
<Graestan>	...there's nothing better to do, but I know that's unrealistic and bound to be unpopular with this group. In reply to Gonk, an FA writer should not be blamed for the lack of coverage on another article. Just because our First Battle of Helska article is 3 KB long doesn't mean that a comprehensive Yuuzhan Vong War article should have a section on the First Battle of Helska less than 3 KB....
<Graestan>	...That's patently ridiculous, if you ask me. The FAN's detail should be judged on how much should be in that article, not how much other articles about the "main topic" are developed. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 14:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC
<Toprawa>	I don't have time to read that shit...just like I don't have 5 hours to spend to read these articles.
* Toprawa	is not reading that
<Graestan>	exactly!
<Toprawa>	I don't know how feasible this really is, but Corran Horn is /too long/ , as far as I'm concerned
<Graestan>	Freenode didn't want to read that, either
<Chack-J>	It was a pain to read
<Graestan>	so is Wraith Squadron, IMP
<Tommy9281>	Maybe we can each commit to a section?
<Graestan>	IMO*
<Tommy9281>	or a pair of us to a section?
<Toprawa>	it should be pleasant to read our articles, not a chore
<Chack-J>	Tommy: Maybe something like that
<Darth_Culator>	I'll take the Appearances section. And sources too, if I have to.
<Tommy9281>	I'd be down for that
<Graestan>	oh, I'd be happy to read through either, provided I didn't catch flak for daring to object to things
<Graestan>	and that's the real root of it
<Chack-J>	Oh, like Acky with Jori
<Tommy9281>	They are just too damn long
<Tommy9281>	they kill my eyes trying to read them in edit mode
<Chack-J>	And everything with Havac
<Graestan>	Greyman can write a magnum opus like GSW, and it gets reviewed and passed
<Chack-J>	It's Greyman :)
<Graestan>	exactly
<Tommy9281>	duh
-->|	JainaSolo (REDACTED) has joined #wookieepedia-Inquisitorius
<Graestan>	soooo, the nominator wants their stuff to pass, they need to find the motivation to make the necessary concessions
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius +o JainaSolo by Darth_Culator
<Tommy9281>	let's see how many folks are reserving their seats for YVW
<Darth_Culator>	You realize how hard it's going to be for me not to be a total douche when I post Kyle Katarn.
<Tommy9281>	because that's gonna be a chore
<Tommy9281>	both of those
<Graestan>	anyhow, anyone else have anything to say about our "rotting" noms?
<Toprawa>	I don't really see the problem
<Toprawa>	this is just Ataru wanting us to read his article
<Tommy9281>	We should divide them into sections between one or two of us
<Toprawa>	it will pass, eventually
<Toprawa>	have patience
<Tommy9281>	I can't be mad at him for wanting folks to read it
<Chack-J>	Sorry nominator. Nothing we can do about it. It's long, it takes time
<Tommy9281>	it is discouraging to see your shit sitting for long times
<Tommy9281>	but whatever
<Darth_Culator>	I still have 217 links to check on Wraith Squadron.
<Tommy9281>	see—shit like that
<Graestan>	alright, on to {{Sofixit}}
<Graestan>	"{{Sofixit}} — I think the creation of some sort of guide as to what is and is not an acceptable objection might be prudent. Perhaps a tutorial type thing? Speaking of which... "
<Tommy9281>	this will be interesting
<Toprawa>	who needs a turorial?
<Toprawa>	it's very simple
<Chack-J>	Common sense
<Graestan>	well, this is a very subjective topic
<Toprawa>	if your objection is something you can reasonably fix yourself, fix it
<Graestan>	"common sense" is relative
<Toprawa>	if not, ask someone to do it because you cannot
<Graestan>	some want us to go so far as to add the missing info!
<Tommy9281>	but what will the nominator learn?
<Toprawa>	who?
<Tommy9281>	I'm not adding missing *shit*
<Graestan>	per Toprawa
<Tommy9281>	?
<Toprawa>	I can honestly say I've made a concentrated effort as of late to take {{Sofixt}} to heart and make changes myself, just bc I don't wnat to be called out on it
<Toprawa>	it's not hard to go in and make changes
<Toprawa>	Inqing in the Editing view is important, mind you
<Tommy9281>	I purposely didn't fix things on Seha Dorvald because I wanted the nominator to see his mistakes and learn from them
<Graestan>	and we do, and I really don't see the need for any policy or tutorial on this
<CavalierOne>	Agreed - i tend to have two windows open during a review
<Tommy9281>	of course I was chastised for that position
<Toprawa>	I don't think we need a policy, either
<CavalierOne>	One on the article page, one in the editing window to fix minor errors
<Tommy9281>	So now we have instructions on how to Inq?
<Graestan>	not really
<Tommy9281>	I think we all do it our own way, and the job gets done
<Graestan>	it was a big initiative against people leaving small objections
<Tommy9281>	No, not that part
<Tommy9281>	I understand all of that
<Tommy9281>	oh nevermind
<Graestan>	anyhow, if it is so important to have a policy page, we'll hear about it next meeting
<Graestan>	next up:
<Graestan>	"Tutorials — how are these coming along? How have they been received? "
<Graestan>	well, I know that Tommy and I are both in the process of writing ours
<Toprawa>	I would like to write mine.
<Toprawa>	Unfortunately, I don't have the time.
<Toprawa>	Maybe during the school year
<CavalierOne>	I'm planning one
<Chack-J>	Not many are up, but they're good
<CavalierOne>	General overview of attacking an FAN for the first time
<Tommy9281>	I'm planning several
<Graestan>	I haven't heard much about any that are up, but I trust Eyre's is great, given his usual extremely clean FAs
<Chack-J>	They could be helpful to a new writer
<Tommy9281>	Fourdot's is cool to
<Chack-J>	I enjoyed Fourdot's. Seriously
<CavalierOne>	me too
<Graestan>	Cav: Fourdot's is a bit like that
<Tommy9281>	I loosely formatted my current one after his
<Graestan>	oh, mine will be fun
<Graestan>	it's about Speculation, OR, and POV
<CavalierOne>	Grae: I know, that's what's keeping me from announcing it :(
<CavalierOne>	Trying to find a specific niche for it
<Graestan>	not a bad idea
<Graestan>	play up both themes
<Tommy9281>	I don't think that soliciting assistance from other Wookieepedians for tutorial info is wrong either
<Graestan>	these are just essays, anyhow
<Graestan>	It was agreed upon that this would be a service to the Wook from the Inq.
<Toprawa>	are we all but finished, then?
<Graestan>	no, there are two, on Gonk's suggestion
<Tommy9281>	green light
<Toprawa>	darn
<Graestan>	"Something about how we don't get nearly enough non-character articles FANned. Maybe just an informal vote to encourage underrepresented categories like planets and stuff. I dunno. "
<Tommy9281>	FA what you want to FA
<Graestan>	well, this is an old tune
<Tommy9281>	that's my stance
<Chack-J>	Nah. We don't need a policy or whatever on this
<CavalierOne>	Bump non-character articles up the queue to break up a character run?
<Graestan>	I think the tutorials could help us with this
<Toprawa>	there are invariably going to be more character FAs than anything
<Graestan>	we already do, Cav, at least, GT has before
<Tommy9281>	because there are more characters
<Toprawa>	I love writing planet articles
<CavalierOne>	Fair enough
<Tommy9281>	and I love writing event ones
<Graestan>	my next six or seven in a row will not be characters
<Tommy9281>	I have a couple of characters in there,
<Tommy9281>	but I've got some duels (of course), and some major battles as well
<Toprawa>	if for every 10 characters we have one non-, I would be satisfied, I think
<Graestan>	our most proficient writers would be the ones to talk to about character overproliference
<Tommy9281>	That actually isn't a bad idea, Top
<Toprawa>	we can't make this a guideline or anything
<Toprawa>	write what you want to
<Tommy9281>	you love to argue with yourself
<Toprawa>	no, just saying
<Toprawa>	it's a nice idea
<Toprawa>	but you can't really force anything
<Graestan>	exactly
<Tommy9281>	the 10 -1 thing would be behind the scenes anyway, right?
<Toprawa>	what are you going to do, not allow a character FAN because it doesnt mean the status quo?
<Toprawa>	meet*
<Tommy9281>	dude, you said it.
<Toprawa>	I'm just talking
<Toprawa>	I do that a lot
<Tommy9281>	and I thought you meant as far as the que went
<Toprawa>	pay no mind :P
<Graestan>	alright, fellas
<Graestan>	"Meetings every other month instead of every month: whaddya think sirs? Gonk (Gonk!) 02:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC) "
<Tommy9281>	no
<Tommy9281>	Every month is fine
<Chack-J>	No
<Graestan>	I say no; monthly or near-monthly is my game.
<Toprawa>	I don't mind meeting every month
<CavalierOne>	Monthly
<Tommy9281>	settled
<Graestan>	Jaina? CUlator?
<Tommy9281>	I've actually been looking forward to this, and am anticipating the next one as well
<Graestan>	at the next one, YOU DIE
<Graestan>	ha ha ha ha haaaaaa
<Darth_Culator>	I prefer monthly. More productive. Less wasteful.
<Tommy9281>	heh
<Tommy9281>	Novar
* Darth_Culator	doesn't like to give people time to dilly-dally on probation.
<JainaSolo>	I prefer every other month
<Graestan>	ah, great point
<Toprawa>	why didn't Hydro come to this meeting?
<Toprawa>	he's sitting in #wook
<Toprawa>	he knows this is going on
<Tommy9281>	I have to go.
<Graestan>	anyhow, general consensus is to forge on with the monthlies
<Tommy9281>	I'll see you all tomorrow
<Chack-J>	See ya Tommy
<Graestan>	the others can chime in next moot
|<--	Tommy9281 has left ("CGI:IRC")
<Graestan>	that concludes our meeting
<Graestan>	thanks you,everyone who bothered to show up
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