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<Ataru>	Welcome, all to the Inqmoot.
<Ataru>	I bid you dim and evil greetings.
<Ataru>	We are now in session.
* Top|Away	belches
* Gonk|Smash	scratches himself
<Ataru>	The first items on the agenda will be articles already on probation.
* Xwing328	boos
* ChackJadson	cheers
<Ataru>	First up is Harrar.
<ChackJadson>	Kill
<Ataru>	http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Harrar&diff=2252166&oldid=2197036
<Ataru>	Diff link there, nothing was done.
<Top|Away>	Kill.
<Ataru>	Kilz it.
<Gonk|Smash>	SMASH
<Xwing328>	ditto
<Graestan>	KILL... KILL... KILL...
=-=	Ataru is now known as Ataru|Inqmoot
<Cull_Tremayne>	No Inqsignal?
<Cull_Tremayne>	Disgraceful.
<Graestan>	forgot to open the room
-->|	Cylka has joined #wookieepedia-inquisitorius
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Oops, sorry.
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius -i by Graestan
* Top|Away	urges haste
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Thanks, Grae.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Kill Harrar.
<Graestan>	Arooo!
<Graestan>	Kill Harrar, indeed.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I have 7 votes for killing Harrar.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	He's dead.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Mandalore the Ultimate.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Ugh.
<Gonk|Smash>	Just to be clear: the only remaining objection is that one BTS thing, right?
<Top|Away>	This thing is a /mess/
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Seems we had some brouhaha on this on the Inqmoot page.
<Graestan>	Cull, please explain a bit to us what is going on.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Mandalore_the_Ultimate&diff=2342549&oldid=2197027
<Graestan>	Would the split be easy?
<Cull_Tremayne>	MmmKay.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Grey's new version is decidedly uninformative.
<Cull_Tremayne>	It would be easy...but the problem is that Sentry is fully opposed to merging the Unknown Mandalore with the Unidentified Taung Mandalore.
<Xwing328>	i abstain again on this one because I'm thoroughly uneducated on the subject
<Cull_Tremayne>	See the Talk: Unidentified Mandalore.
<ChackJadson>	Sentry?
<Graestan>	How is Sentry important to this?
<ChackJadson>	Screw him
<Top|Away>	Random question: Why is Sentry dictating what we do?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Yeah . . . that's silly.
<Top|Away>	New random question: Who the hell is Sentry? :P
<Cull_Tremayne>	Anyhow. The situation is this.
<Graestan>	Oh, because of the split needing to go to one article or another.
<AdmirableAckbar>	I think it's because Sentry is saying author's comments don't count as canon or something.
<Top|Away>	Do they?
<Top|Away>	I don't know how that works.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Well, we've used them before.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Well, sort of, imho.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Right, that's the problem.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	For example, Karpy said that Vaapad in POD was an error.
<Xwing328>	well they're not strictly canon, but they're comments are almost like an informal interview'
<AdmirableAckbar>	If an author just makes something up, then I'd say not really.
<Gonk|Smash>	I don't think they count as canon, but in ambig situations, they should have significant bearing on how we structure it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We count that as correct.
<AdmirableAckbar>	But if they're clarifying a situation, then I'd say they are.
<Graestan>	per Gonk
<Cull_Tremayne>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Unidentified_Mandalore
<Top|Away>	I would just run with it and leave a glorified BTS note, tbh
<Top|Away>	That's just me, though
<Cull_Tremayne>	In TotJ, we have Mandalore the Indomitable dying. Some Taung come along and grabs the mask, saying that he is the new Mandalore. The NEC and HotM seems to confirm that this guy becomes Mandalore the Ultimate. Albeit with some vague wording.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Now, in the latest sources (ie, the most canon imo), we have some doubt coming up that the Taung in TotJ actually became Mandalore the Ultimate.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Whatever the situation, though, the current article is not good enough.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Why not, Acky?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Because Greyman removed loads of stuff but didn't reinclude some of it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Granted, I just read the BtS and it seemed to make a fair amount of sense that the Taung was MtU.
<Graestan>	My whole question is whether or not fixing the issues would be simple enough that this could retain its status. I mean, the character is central to a current comic series, so having him on the FA list is a bonus.
<AdmirableAckbar>	The bio doesn't mention the Taung.
<AdmirableAckbar>	I support prolonging the probation.
<Graestan>	I concur.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Hopefully someone will deal with it.
<Gonk|Smash>	It doesn't look to me like fixing the issues would be thaat simple.
<Top|Away>	Bleh.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Right, but the BtS is oddly biased towards it being that Ultimate is the Taung. Which doesn't line up with recent sources.
<Top|Away>	This thing has been probed for months now, no?
<Top|Away>	I vote kill.
<Gonk|Smash>	But it does seem like maybe we should move the discussion to Talk:Mandalore the Ultimate ... just to be sure the BTS is as clear but inclusive as possible.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I want to know what exactly needs fixed with it.
<Cull_Tremayne>	In fact, it borders on OR.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Right.
<Graestan>	I might work on Greyman; he seemed more disheartened than actually washing his hands, and I know he'd be good for the work.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Ie, "The Taung could be lying" sort of statements.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We have a BtS issue of sorts . . . and a detail objection?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Am I correct?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Yes.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Detail objection... sort of.
<Cull_Tremayne>	There should be some mention of the connection with the Taung Mandalore. Which there isn't.
<Graestan>	I should have read this in my half-hour. :S
<AdmirableAckbar>	http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalore_the_Ultimate#Early_life - no mention of the old Taung and the claims
<Graestan>	Ah.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I vote for prolonging the probation.
<AdmirableAckbar>	BtS doesn't mention that at all, really, either
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	This . . . mess was not clarified in the Meeting 21 log.
<Top|Away>	9_9
<Cull_Tremayne>	Also, the BtS needs to be totally restructured. Just in my opinion. Because it is trying to create doubts about the issue, where there doesn't entirely seem to be.
<ChackJadson>	Skin color #CE9D7A
<ChackJadson>	
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	It's unfair to punish the writer for stuff he never got to see.
<ChackJadson>	My bad
<Cull_Tremayne>	I honestly just jumped in because I thought the matter was being misunderstood.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Ataru: well, yeah, because Greyman made wholesale cuts when he got all...whatever at what Cull was saying.
<Gonk|Smash>	I vote to prolong the probe per Ataru ...I think this is high-profile enough that we can expect it to be fixed.
<Top|Away>	It's been probed for 3 months now. How much more of an extension do you require?
<Gonk|Smash>	Enough so everyone knows what the hell is going on, Tope ;)
<Graestan>	3 prolong, 1 kill, thus far - Cull?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Top|Away: You're asking to remove an article's FA status based on objections *that weren't there before.*
<Top|Away>	We've had 3 months to figure this out.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	That's wrong.
<Cull_Tremayne>	But since it was so close to this meeting, I'm for extending the probation, because Greyman had no time to address any of those points, and I never really talked to him directly about it.
* Gonk|Smash	THOUGHT he understood it, until now :)
<ChackJadson>	It hasn't helped, Tope, that Greyman's been away, FWIW
<Xwing328>	maybe if the status was finally removed, somebody would take the effort to re-FA it
<Top|Away>	Seriously.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay, voting time.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Greyman did make the effort, but then it was challenged rightly just yesterday and he decided not to
<Graestan>	prolong
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Vote prolong, kill, or keep.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Prolong.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Prolong.
<Gonk|Smash>	prolong
<Top|Away>	Kill.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Extend probation, but with the stipulation that I don't see anyone working on the problem.
<Graestan>	I might.
<Xwing328>	kill
* Gonk|Smash	volunteers to assist. *ASSIST*
<Top|Away>	Sometimes we can be far too forgiving.
<AdmirableAckbar>	It just needs someone to be neutral and look at the facts.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Anyone else?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I have 5 prolongs to 2 kills.
<Graestan>	per Acky
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	That's fairly clear consensus. The article's probation will be re-addressed next meeting.
<Cull_Tremayne>	I'd like to restructure the BtS, but I don't want to be unfairly biased the opposite way. Because it's a more complicated issue than that.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Furthermore, a full list and explanation of what the hell is going on with that will be provided.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	PLEASE>
<Gonk|Smash>	:)
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	:-P:
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	* :-P
<Cull_Tremayne>	We need the Unidentified Mandalore article to include the info from TotJ. Ie, the picture, the meeting with Canderous, etc.
<Top|Away>	9_9
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Anyway . . . can we move on now?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Please.
<Top|Away>	I'm not convinced more than ever that Mandalorian anything is bad for my disposition
<Top|Away>	now*
<Cull_Tremayne>	Without that article being fixed, the Ultimate article can't be imo.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Don't say that! Fenn Shysa can still be saved! :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on . . .
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Padme's under-er . . . wardrobe. :-P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Padm%C3%A9_Amidala%27s_wardrobe&diff=2301596&oldid=2197024
<Gonk|Smash>	Disrobe.
<Top|Away>	Lacking a good deal of information.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Nothing done, destroy it.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Per Gonk.
<Top|Away>	Kill
<AdmirableAckbar>	Kill
<ChackJadson>	Kill
<Xwing328>	i'm afraid it's still missing stuff from all the TCW episodes
<Xwing328>	kill
<Graestan>	per Gonk.... err, kill
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Solus has stated that those FAs are no longer a priority.
<Graestan>	it's an OR factory anyhow
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	They won't be updated by that user.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Kill.
<Top|Away>	Solus?
<AdmirableAckbar>	4 proxy votes to kill.
<Top|Away>	I thought I killed himi already
-->|	Fiolli|Away has joined #wookieepedia-inquisitorius
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius +o Fiolli|Away by chanserv
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius +o Fiolli|Away by Nuku-Nuku
<ChackJadson>	It's a girl, Tope :P
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius -o Fiolli|Away by Fiolli|Away
<Top|Away>	Hahahaha
<Graestan>	Buongiorno Fiolli
<Top|Away>	We learn something new every day
<ChackJadson>	Yeah, lol
<Cull_Tremayne>	Who's a girl?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I have 7 votes to remove Padme's wardrobe.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Solus is.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Like I said, Solus has said he won't be updating it.
<Top|Away>	What is it?
<Cull_Tremayne>	Wow...bad illustration of himself then.
<Top|Away>	Girl or guy?
<AdmirableAckbar>	So is that one gone then?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Yes.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay, let me clarify the issue.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Also, his voice on the Wookiee-cast...weird.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Top: girl, formerly pretending to be a guy
<ChackJadson>	Girl, according to profile on Fanon Wiki
<Top|Away>	Geez.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Or "hers" that is.
<ChackJadson>	Dont' ask why I was on that site :P
<Top|Away>	lol
<Graestan>	Whoa.
<AdmirableAckbar>	To "avoid attention" or somesuch.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Solus is girl. She doesn't admit it on the Wook, and that picture is not an image of her.
<Graestan>	She-man?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I wasn't going to leak that info, Chack and Acky. :|
* AdmirableAckbar	shrugs
<ChackJadson>	This is off-topic now, sorry
<Top|Away>	Your secrets are safe among the Inq :)
<AdmirableAckbar>	He leaked it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	MOVING ON.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Except for this log.
* Gonk|Smash	moves to strike this from the log :)
<Top|Away>	lmao
<AdmirableAckbar>	It's not like he whispered it to me in the middle of the night
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Rokur_Gepta&diff=2249140&oldid=2197045
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Gonk|Smash: Seconded.
<Gonk|Smash>	Croak.
<ChackJadson>	Destroy
<AdmirableAckbar>	Kill, I suppose.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	GEPTAAAAAAA!!!!
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Nothing was done, remove.
<Xwing328>	Kill
<Graestan>	Kill.
<Top|Away>	It must DIE
<AdmirableAckbar>	He's pretty cool, so hopefully someone will redo it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	WP:NEGTC will probably fix this up soon.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Gepta can have a better article than this.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We just have to finish Nym first.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Right guys?
<ChackJadson>	Acky: I plan to
* Ataru|Inqmoot	looks at Acky and Chack.
<ChackJadson>	This would be a good NEGTC project
<Cull_Tremayne>	What's this "we" business?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Cull: WP:NEGTC stuff.
* ChackJadson	nods at Ataru
-->|	Muuurgh has joined #wookieepedia-inquisitorius
<Gonk|Smash>	What the fuck "we", Walter??
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Anyway, we have lots of kill votes.
<Cull_Tremayne>	I still say Acky's doing it by himself... :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on.
<Graestan>	Shabbos is over.
<Top|Away>	Hello, Muuurgh|Silenced
* AdmirableAckbar	wouldn't be much good...never read the Lando Trilogy.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	As bad as we are about this, let's try and stay on-topic please.
<Gonk|Smash>	<Muuurgh> Mmph!
<Cull_Tremayne>	Oh right, Fiolli's not an Inq anymore.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Next up: New probes.
<Xwing328>	So, Dooku
<Top|Away>	Good Lord.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Dooku has been placed up for examination.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Can't say I'm looking forward to this one.
<Gonk|Smash>	And no more kill votes! You'll confuse Gonk.
<ChackJadson>	Probe. Should be a pretty easy fix, though, it appears
<AdmirableAckbar>	I thought the whole point of Dooku was that Yrf was going to diligently update everything.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Smash votes?
<Gonk|Smash>	Probu.
<Top|Away>	I've been on the verge of sysop-protecting this a few times.
<Xwing328>	Probe
<Top|Away>	Probe the hell out of it
<AdmirableAckbar>	Which hasn't happened.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I'm thinking probation because it's needing updates.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Probe.
<ChackJadson>	Does it need anything beside TCW?
<Top|Away>	well, duh
<Cull_Tremayne>	Lock it.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Then Probe it.
<Graestan>	Probe.
<Top|Away>	per Cull
<Cull_Tremayne>	Then throw away the key to it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We need to let people know that we're serious about maintaining FAs.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Probe.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay, article is on probation.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Next up.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Grievous.
<Graestan>	Chack?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Hmmm.
<ChackJadson>	Keep. Everything's fixed
<Xwing328>	Has TCW stuff been added? I didn't check.
<Top|Away>	keep updating with TCW, Chack
<Cull_Tremayne>	It has.
<ChackJadson>	Granted, TCW could be a bit longer, but I plan on fixing that sometime
<ChackJadson>	It's there though
<Xwing328>	better than Dooku
<Cull_Tremayne>	Keep, since Chack is playing full-court press on it.
<AdmirableAckbar>	TCW stuff looks a bit dodgy.
<Xwing328>	Keep
<Top|Away>	ugh, specify the "Star Wars Insider 74" source with an article
<AdmirableAckbar>	Those are massive paragraphs.
<Graestan>	Yes, please.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I say Keep.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Did you add the TCW stuff, Chack, or did others?
<Cull_Tremayne>	I blame Mondale.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Or anons.
<ChackJadson>	Others, and I cleaned it up a bit
<Top|Away>	I'll keep, but I *strongly urge Chack to stay up to speed with it*
<Top|Away>	:P
<ChackJadson>	Yeah
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	The remaining issues are small, IMO, and can be fixed by Chack if we nag him enough about it.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Alright...
<Gonk|Smash>	Per Top and Ataru
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	It's kept.
<Top|Away>	Wait.
<Gonk|Smash>	Aroo?
<Top|Away>	Before we drop that
<Top|Away>	Can we sysop-protect that too until TCW ends?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Just break up those TCW paragraphs.
<Top|Away>	It's being messed with almost daily
<ChackJadson>	Wait, only semi-protect, right?
<Gonk|Smash>	I second that emo-tion.
<Top|Away>	Obviously unlock to let Chack edit
<Cull_Tremayne>	Sysop protect probably too extreme.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Top|Away: Chack's not an admin.
<Xwing328>	Per Cull
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Semi-for now.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Overall I think the article could be improved presentation-wise, but that's not worth probing over.
<ChackJadson>	If it's fully locked, I can't edit
<Graestan>	Keep, semi-protect. But I wish Chack has sysops just for this.
<Top|Away>	We can unlock it for Chack, no?
<Graestan>	Chack shouldn't have to ask us to unlock it. XD
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Sure, as long as the Inq admins are fine with that bit of autonomy being ignored.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Why lock it if Chack just watches it?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I think it's better to leave it semi'd.
<Gonk|Smash>	Let's RFA Chack :DD
<Top|Away>	Because retards fuck with it daily
<ChackJadson>	I can just check it diligently
<Top|Away>	and I say that with no exaggeration
<ChackJadson>	Semi-protect, if it's not already, and I don't think it is
<Graestan>	All the absentees say keep on Grievous.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Chack: Would you prefer to have it locked, or semi-protected?
<Graestan>	Chack is a wee lad, he can't be an admin yet. :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Regardless, the article is kept.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Just have a note asking people to revert every single edit to it.
<ChackJadson>	Ataru: Semi
<AdmirableAckbar>	Other than Chack's.
<Top|Away>	it's already semi-protected
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We're going to move on. Semi-protection is not within the bounds of the Inq per se.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Sysopping so that only one person can work on it...gotta say no there.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	That's an admin matter.
<Top|Away>	Why?
<Top|Away>	It's an FA.
<Gonk|Smash>	:p
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	GH-7 medical droid.
<ChackJadson>	Per Top
<Top|Away>	And it's right in the middle of a new series
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Smack this.
<Gonk|Smash>	Probe droid.
<ChackJadson>	Kill
<ChackJadson>	Or probe
<Top|Away>	Kill everything
<Top|Away>	Probe
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	This is a Solus one, right?
<Cull_Tremayne>	BDZ.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Does anyone know if there's much info in TOTG?
<ChackJadson>	Think so, Ataru
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Yep.
<Graestan>	I say probe the droid, as do all absentees.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I might persuade Solus to tweak this one, or I could fix it myself, probably.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	But for now, probation.
<Xwing328>	Probe, but referencing the infobox should be a quick fix
<Top|Away>	Ugh.
<Top|Away>	Unsourced infoboxes.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	It's an older FA.
<Top|Away>	So?
<Top|Away>	Fix it, damnit
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Probation it is.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Like I said, Solus hasn't been here in awhile. :-P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	moving on.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Nute Gunray
<AdmirableAckbar>	Probe.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Issues listed with TCW content.
<Gonk|Smash>	Prube
<Top|Away>	Same deal as Dooku
<Top|Away>	Probe
<AdmirableAckbar>	it's 4dot's article and he said to probe, so...
<ChackJadson>	Probe
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Probation.
<Xwing328>	I haven't read to know what's missing from TCW, but yeah, Probe
<Cull_Tremayne>	Since 4dot votes probe...
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	2 more absentees also vote probation,
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	That's plenty. Moving on.
<Graestan>	Probe.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Lutrillian.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I confess that I have not read this article, so I abstain.
<Cull_Tremayne>	What is the issue here?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Someone more knowledgeable should explain.
<Top|Away>	It's missing information from 3 sources I know of for sure.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Also, has harassing Bob not worked?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	It's been said that it's missing info.
<Top|Away>	It was never added originally
<Top|Away>	I tried to get SavageBob to do so, but he didn't
<Graestan>	3 probe, 1 keep from the page
<Top|Away>	I left him talk messages and he kindof just shrugged me off
<Graestan>	I say probe
<Top|Away>	probe
<Cull_Tremayne>	What three sources were they?
<AdmirableAckbar>	probe
<Gonk|Smash>	Probe-a-lobe
<Top|Away>	two Tales, I think
<Top|Away>	and something else
<Top|Away>	read his talk page
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	7 probations, 1 keep thus far.
<Top|Away>	I listed them on there, I think
<Xwing328>	Probe
<Cull_Tremayne>	Tope: Will do.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	8 and 1.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Probation it is.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Reluctant probe. Just to get Bob to work on it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on . . .
<AdmirableAckbar>	Force cage
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Force cage.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Probe.
<Graestan>	Culator wanted to mention this: http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Force_cage&diff=2333325&oldid=2316023
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I'll defer to Tope on this one.
<ChackJadson>	Probe
<AdmirableAckbar>	I know it appears in SOTE in the very least.
<Top|Away>	I can think of at least one Fett story with missing information
<Xwing328>	Probe
<Top|Away>	yup, SOTE is another - didnt think of that
<Cull_Tremayne>	The comic that is.
<Top|Away>	Probe
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Probation, then.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Right, the comic.
<Gonk|Smash>	Probe then.
<Graestan>	Force cage has 2 keeps, 1 probe and 1 abstain on the page
<ChackJadson>	Several probes here </Ric Olie>
<Graestan>	I say probe; no reason not to look into it, no reason for butthurt about the probe as it isn't a remove
<Cull_Tremayne>	That pick of 4-LOM in a Force cage must be in the article.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	And I have 6 votes to have probation in here.
<Graestan>	7*
<Top|Away>	per Cull
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	XD
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I didn't see your vote, Grae, sorry.
<Graestan>	It was new
<Graestan>	Like a red light
<Cull_Tremayne>	Probe, but the review page needs to be pretty exhaustive.
<Graestan>	I can work on that, Cull
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	9 to 2 is pretty clear consensus, but be aware that our rules do not allow us to remove FA status from an article with two Inqs dissenting.
* Graestan	is good at sniffing out OR and POV
<Gonk|Smash>	Noted
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We can place something on probation, but not FAremove it with 2 dissenters.
<Graestan>	it's not a remove yet
<AdmirableAckbar>	In this case, though, one of those votes is misinformed.
<Graestan>	they'll have to dissent again next meeting
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Right, well, probation, at any rate.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Or two, most likely.
<Top|Away>	Absent voting is silly. They aren't pressured by the group dynamic XD
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Just wanted to remind everyone of the rules. Especially since I wrote it. :-P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	*them
<Cull_Tremayne>	More peer pressure.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on . . .
<Gonk|Smash>	ONE OF US
<Cull_Tremayne>	You wrote Force cage?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I wrote the rules.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Gooble gobble gooble gobble!
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	:-P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	ZSINJ!
<AdmirableAckbar>	Probe Zsinj.
<ChackJadson>	This is real minor...
<Top|Away>	What's the problem here?
<Xwing328>	Quote preference is not a good enough reason to probe
<AdmirableAckbar>	Intro's too short.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Right, sorry, not up to date here.
<Top|Away>	I see nothing but stricken concerns
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Short intro.
<Graestan>	Zsinj has four keeps on the page.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Heck, I can fix that in ten minutes.
<ChackJadson>	Probe, I brought it up in the first place
<Top|Away>	ah
<ChackJadson>	Meh, it's a real easy fix
<Top|Away>	Probe, but it's an easy fix.
* Cull_Tremayne	goes to read the problem
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Keep. I'll fix it after the m00t.
<AdmirableAckbar>	IT should've been fixed by now.
<Graestan>	I say definitely probe until that pathetic intro is inflated. :P
<Cull_Tremayne>	Reluctant probe.
<Xwing328>	Keep
<Gonk|Smash>	Keep on condition that Ataru fixes it. Probe if he lies.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Since Culator's currently getting drunk, no doubt.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Xwing: if it's not up to standard it's not up to standard.
<Top|Away>	I wish I was
<AdmirableAckbar>	I don't see "good enough reasons to probe," I just problems with the article.
<Top|Away>	Instead, I'm stuck here with you fine chaps :P
<Graestan>	I'm four sheets. :D
<Gonk|Smash>	I'm only one sheet >:(
<AdmirableAckbar>	I want to go to sleep...
<ChackJadson>	Sorry Toprawa :(
<Graestan>	Acky is dearg mesca
<Top|Away>	hehe
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I have 3 keeps and 3 probes in IRC.
<Top|Away>	Ugh, I don't believe in "someone says they will fix it"
<Top|Away>	I don't take people at their word.
<Top|Away>	Laziness is too prevalent around here :P
<ChackJadson>	I think Ataru would :P
<Gonk|Smash>	I believe in "someone says they will fix it in like two minutes."
<Xwing328>	Well we could sit here while Ataru fixes it :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Grae: What do the absentees say?
<Cull_Tremayne>	Probe. Because it's the equivalent of saying, "Your legs are gonna get broken if you don't have my money." Which is always an appropriate response.
<Graestan>	Keep, all four.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	3 keeps and 4 probes in IRC, plus 4 keeps in absentia.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Ugh.
<Graestan>	Baw.
<AdmirableAckbar>	That's a probe, isn't it?
<Gonk|Smash>	Preep.
<Top|Away>	I imagine Culator will fix it regardless of the decision here.
<Top|Away>	Decide.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Only if he's asked.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Acky: 7 vs. 4 to probe?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	That's not a probe at all.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Not with 7 keeps.
<AdmirableAckbar>	He won't fix it if he's 'told' I don't think
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	It's a "no consensus."
<Cull_Tremayne>	So...moving on.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Look, I will fix this after the moot.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Ataru: shouldn't we default to probe then? :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	The intro is the only thing, right?
<ChackJadson>	That quote does stink though... :P
<ChackJadson>	But it's really just the intro
-->|	Muuuurgh has joined #wookieepedia-inquisitorius
<AdmirableAckbar>	Yeah.
|<--	Muuurgh has left irc.freenode.net (Nick collision from services.)
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Then I will fix it after the meeting. Remember, I did write Wraith Squadron, which has most of the same sources as Zsinj.
<Top|Away>	/Jeopardy music plays/
<AdmirableAckbar>	Starfighter combat.
<--|	Muuuurgh has left #wookieepedia-inquisitorius
<Xwing328>	oh yeah, and for Zsinj, fix the stinkin' skin color
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay, we're defaulting to no probation.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	And I'll still fix it anyway.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on, goshdarnit.
<ChackJadson>	Probe sf combat, anyway
<Gonk|Smash>	Probe SFC
<Top|Away>	Starfighter combat...can this article /ever/ be comprehensive?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Starfighter combat . . . ugh.
<Top|Away>	because it's sure not now :P
<Xwing328>	Probe, though it's quite an enjoyable article
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Another one that needs perpetual updating.
<ChackJadson>	In a word, Tope: No
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Probation.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Probe
<Cull_Tremayne>	What is that skin color deal? Is that the code for that color?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	While theoretically possible for it to be comprehensive, in practice, it's not.
<Xwing328>	yeah
<Cull_Tremayne>	But yeah, probe.
<Gonk|Smash>	per Xwing. Big project, but worth someone's effort. (someone = not me)
<Graestan>	Probe SC. I'd actually like to invite as many Inqs as possible to look at this article, as it's got loads of potential for mishap, being so broad a subject. But if it can be comprehensive, it would be a jewel.
<Top|Away>	Probe
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	8 probes in IRC.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Grae: What do our absentees say?
<Graestan>	Probes, all.
<Top|Away>	I pipelink [[Starfighter combat/Legends|starfighter combat]] into a new article every day, it seems
<Cull_Tremayne>	It's a monster that has kind of tipped over with bricks missing.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	That's easy. :-P
<Top|Away>	I can't imagine all that it's missing
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Moving on . . .
<Cull_Tremayne>	Like Jenga. But not really.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	(With caveat that we will provide a huge list of stuff to do for starfighter combat)
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Before the next meeting, in fact.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Anakin Solo.
<Gonk|Smash>	Probakin Probo
<Graestan>	Kill the rat.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Probe.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Just skip the probe.
<ChackJadson>	Probe
<Graestan>	I mean, probe him. Deeply.
<ChackJadson>	Kill if possible
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I managed to fix this up the last time we reviewed it, but I'm not doing it again.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Put him in a plant.
<Xwing328>	For Anakin, really minor, but it could use a ref note on the (authenticity questionable) caption
<Top|Away>	probe
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Our standards have gotten much higher and it really does need a lot of work I'm not willing to do.
<AdmirableAckbar>	One paragraph on Myrkr? Kill.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I see 8 in IRC.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Plus 4 in absentia.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	It's on probation.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Anyone else have something that needs reviewed for probation?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Going once . . .
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Twice . . .
<AdmirableAckbar>	I do.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	What is it?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Gaeriel Captison.
<AdmirableAckbar>	:P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Again?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	:|
<Cull_Tremayne>	Convince me. :P
<AdmirableAckbar>	ONly messing, carry on
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Bah, okay, moving on.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Time for other agenda items.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Grae?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Graestan has the floor to yell about people about doing your job.
<Gonk|Smash>	Proob your pramn prob
<Gonk|Smash>	Oh wait, we're past that part.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Even though he's preaching to the choir. :-P
<ChackJadson>	Do work. Please
<Graestan>	Okay, first and foremost:
<Graestan>	Fiolli has been asked by six different Inqs to come back to us in the past week.
<Graestan>	Can we do like we did with Eyre and let it be?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Sure.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	New Inq voting is supposed to come before meetings, for future reference.
<Xwing328>	Does Fiolli want to be back?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	So we can pull them into the voting.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	:|
<Graestan>	We didn't bother voting on Eyre. ;)
<Cull_Tremayne>	As in, stop harassing him?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	And so we can have closed, non-logged pieces.
<ChackJadson>	Can we ask the other two to leave now?
<Graestan>	I've cut the sections from the log.
<ChackJadson>	This is supposed to be private, FWIW
<Graestan>	9_9
<AdmirableAckbar>	doesn't particularly matter
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Oh, to kriff with it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I'm fine with Fiolli coming back if he wants to.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Especially if he brings his pasta back. :-D
<ChackJadson>	If Fiolli's the only candidate, then don't bother. Let him rejoin, BTW
<Cull_Tremayne>	Once an Inq always an Inq. You cannot escape the maw.
=-=	Mode #wookieepedia-inquisitorius +o Fiolli|Away by Graestan
<AdmirableAckbar>	Is there any other candidates?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Seriously, if anyone has an objection, PM me or Grae.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	If not, then draft Fiolli again.
<Graestan>	Or PM Fiolli "TO MY FACE!"
* Ataru|Inqmoot	waits . . . okay, he's in. :-P
<Top|Away>	I don't have a problem with Fiolli, but I have a problem with people just coming and going as they please.
<Graestan>	Buongiorno, Fiolli.
<Top|Away>	But that's a debate for another day :)
* Fiolli|Away	would not mind if people with objections personally spoke with me.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Graestan: I think you had other yelling to do about the laziness bit.
<Graestan>	Okay.
<Graestan>	http://greententacle.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/InqGraphs.pdf
<AdmirableAckbar>	If someone's asked back it's not really coming and going as they please, I wouldn't say
<Graestan>	Everyone take a gander.
<ChackJadson>	Agree with Tope. But welcome, Fiolli. Not a problem with you
<Graestan>	Hey, MY TURN!
<Graestan>	http://greententacle.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/InqGraphs.pdf
* Ataru|Inqmoot	has seen this graph before.
<Fiolli|Away>	Toprawa: FWIW, I had some personal issues come up with losing job, work, moving, etc. that prevented me for being active, so I stepped down out of courtesy.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Woah, that's cool.
<AdmirableAckbar>	And I've gone down a lot in my reviewing.
<ChackJadson>	Yeah, Fiolli's not a problem
<Graestan>	The last graph in this set has individual stats for non-self Inqvotes, for all of us.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Ataru: scroll a bit, there's other
<AdmirableAckbar>	s
<Cull_Tremayne>	Green tentacle, once again you prove your awesomeness.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I've seen 'em all, Acky.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	:-P
<AdmirableAckbar>	oh
<Cull_Tremayne>	60 days?
* ChackJadson	snickers
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Grae: . . . .
<Graestan>	Now, in this world of one-FA-per-day, we need people to work on this.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Well, if we get Grey and Fiolli back, that'll help.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Both were pretty productive before IIRC.
<Graestan>	Not many of us are just plain not Inqing, period, but plenty, in my opinion, can step it up, do a couple more per month at least.
<Top|Away>	You can't force people to volunteer, unfortunately.
<Cull_Tremayne>	W00t! Leading the pack recently. :P
<ChackJadson>	When's Grey back?
<Gonk|Smash>	Month or so.
<Fiolli|Away>	A couple months, if I remember correctly.
<Xwing328>	Well I'll definitely have a few this month compared to my zero in december due to RL
<Gonk|Smash>	Per Xwing
<Graestan>	Thanks, Xwing--I've seen you step it up a few times in the past, and have always appreciated your renewed commitment.
<Fiolli|Away>	I should be able to add about 7-10 a month, barring craziness in real life.
<Graestan>	Gonk. My ruler misses your knuckles.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I'll probably be pretty busy IRL upcoming . . . I'm afraid I can't promise much more than what I'm currently doing.
<ChackJadson>	Can everyone try to do a few per month? Even just like twice a week?
<ChackJadson>	Is that reasonable?
<Graestan>	Twice a week is more than fine.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Which is 10ish per month.
<ChackJadson>	I'm kind of a special case, given that I'm 16, and don't have a job, just school
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Sorry. :-S
<Graestan>	Ataru, you've done your share. :P
<Cull_Tremayne>	It's gonna slope off for me.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Is Breathes still in the Inq?
<ChackJadson>	Ataru: you helped found the Inq. Don't worry
<Graestan>	No, she left.
<Fiolli|Away>	Twice a week is a great goal, and that way if you can only get one in a week at a random spot, you're still fine for the month.
<ChackJadson>	Acky: No
<Cull_Tremayne>	Not according to the graph.
<Gonk|Smash>	Also Ataru, don't forget that I pledged to Gonkify Lando.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Oh, right.
<ChackJadson>	Question: Why is Jaina still in?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Gonk: I've not forgotten. I'm working on that last source now. :-)
<Gonk|Smash>	8)
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Chack: She Inqs more than Imp or even Eyrezer.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Wow, Greyman did 40 in June. Now that's some commitment.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I don't see people putting up a stink about them?
<ChackJadson>	Imp is in the military...Ey I do have an issue with a bit
<ChackJadson>	But whatever. Not a big deal
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Well, I don't want to boot people who Inq 30-40 articles a year, even. That shows some commitment, IMO.
<Top|Away>	The difference is that Jaina is not present on the site in any other capacity, but Ataru does have  point
<Top|Away>	Which makes her less noticeable, but the numbers are there, evidently
<Cull_Tremayne>	Jaina has done 5 in the last 4 months.
<Graestan>	Yes, those who are on the site every damned day but don't Inq, I am very annoyed with.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Hey, if she shows up and Inqs stuff for us, I'm happy to let her stay.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Ey should do more, considering how much he writes, though he's away atm afaik
<Top|Away>	Granted, I don't support inactive Inqs of that caliber...
<Top|Away>	Just saying.
<Graestan>	I wasn't expecting GT's chart to be as positive as it was (the individual stats one), otherwise I was planning to leave irate talk page messages.
<Fiolli|Away>	If RL is an issue, though, and you aren't even on the wook for a month, that is one thing.
<Cull_Tremayne>	If you pressure Eyre, he'll step down. At least, that's how I'd see it going.
<Graestan>	I must make a second point, though, on Fourdot's request:
<Fiolli|Away>	If you are on the wook and do nothing, that's another.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Tommy's not done much reviewing since he's come in.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I'll take what I can get, personally. Unless they're just plain not showing any effort at all, I'm open to the idea of a large Inq body.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Let's focus on the broad issue, shall we?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	This need not degenerate into a finger-pointing contest. Let Grae talk.
<Cull_Tremayne>	I have to say again that this graph is awesome.
<Graestan>	Another thing Fourdot pointed out to me, and I agree on:
<ChackJadson>	Agreed, Cull
<Cull_Tremayne>	Kudos GT when you read this log.
<Graestan>	The older noms are being largely ignored.
<Top|Away>	Acky> Tommy reviews?
<Graestan>	There are reasons, we all know.
<Top|Away>	News to me :P
<Graestan>	But we need to look at this.
<AdmirableAckbar>	I don't really see this.
* Ataru|Inqmoot	did see some of the older noms were falling behind
<Graestan>	See what/
<Graestan>	?
<ChackJadson>	Grae: Yes. Especially noms by newish users
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Last month, we had a bad case of that.
<Graestan>	It's been a problem since I joined, really.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I tried to step up my Inqing of some of the more boring noms.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Like TOTJ and WTS.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Of the current older noms, they're all reasonably active bar Klivian.
<ChackJadson>	People largely ignore the noobs for a while, at least
<Graestan>	Now, it is understood that certain Inqs get along with certain nominators like Oil and Water.
<Xwing328>	Maybe we should make some sort of informal rule where we start our work at the top and don't review articles lower on the page until we've gone through the ones above
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Most of them are clear now, but it was also raised in our complaints department.
<Top|Away>	The noms that stay up there for 4 months do so because of issues that don't even relate to the article.
<Top|Away>	I have no sympathy for some.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Yes.
<Graestan>	But everyone who /doesn't/ have a lot of conflicts with whoever the nominator is should have a look.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	http://starwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Wookieepedia:Inq/Do_your_damn_job&t=20081227061920
<AdmirableAckbar>	Maybe they don't have conflicts because they don't review his articles.
<Graestan>	I don't speak of the ones where the objections are just sitting, etc.
<Gonk|Smash>	Oh good. Encourage blocs. ;)
<Graestan>	I mean the ones that /don't even get looked at./
<AdmirableAckbar>	But Hobbie isn't a typical case.
<Top|Away>	Well, that's because it's new people who require training
<AdmirableAckbar>	I can't recall seeing any other nom do the same thing, with no attention.
<Top|Away>	When we have 45 noms, its' hard to devote extra time to newcomers who don't know the MOS and LG, for ex
<Graestan>	Some people have been doing it on the GAN lately.
<Top|Away>	That's why some of these sit idle.
<ChackJadson>	That shouldn't be the case
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Also, I think that humongous articles like Havac, and sometimes Greyman and I write . . . as much as I hate to admit it, we have to be patient with those.
<Graestan>	Looking at shitty articles by newbies and offering help.
<ChackJadson>	When they get no reviews , it discourages them
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	And the nominators should understand that.
<Graestan>	One such person is observing this meeting.
<ChackJadson>	That happened to me, and it was annoying as anything
<Cull_Tremayne>	Has anyone but me even posted a review on Hobbie?
<Cull_Tremayne>	Oh wait, 4dot. nm.
<Top|Away>	I agree...I'm just saying, I just don't always have the time, I'm guessing that's pretty universal
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Sorry, Cull, I'm not touching that one.
<ChackJadson>	I read it, Cull
<Graestan>	As Inqs, we are the leaders of article quality. We need to take the time to help people out more.
<Top|Away>	Some of these people jump right into FAN when they should be learning over on GAN
<Cull_Tremayne>	Chack: You're a given. :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I agree.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Per Tope.
<ChackJadson>	lol
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	^With Grae.
<Graestan>	per Tope, but we need to execute due process nonetheless.
<Graestan>	We can't just stonewall them.
<Fiolli|Away>	We need to be fair, regardless.
<Graestan>	Heck, even mentioning it on the review wouldn't be a bad idea.
<Top|Away>	It becomes a matter of necessity.
<Fiolli|Away>	If we need to avoid conflicts, then we do such. Otherwise, be fair.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	There is no fairness in the review. :-P
<Graestan>	If you can see that it is LOADED with issues, say so!
<Top|Away>	I think you guys are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	What are you talking about? The Inq is not fair? :-P
<Cull_Tremayne>	Telos IV has only been on the page for what...two weeks?
<Top|Away>	You want reviews to step up but you want us to spend time on newbs
<Top|Away>	We can't do both
<Cull_Tremayne>	The average is a month at this point.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	At this point, it's more important to keep stuff moving, IMHO>
<Graestan>	Actually, those who aren't reviewing as much as they can/should could very well be just the people to look at these noms.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	If Acky writes an uber-clean article we can pass in a week, then let's pass it in a week
<Gonk|Smash>	I believe the newbs are our future. Teach them well and let them replace us when we all get sick of this place and leave.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	(Just using you as an example, Acky. ;-) )
<Graestan>	per Gonk, sadly :P
<Cull_Tremayne>	Inq noms should go through much faster imho. And that discourages new users obviously.
<ChackJadson>	It's something like Swokes Swokes, which had one read in 2 months, that's a problem. Sure, it's easy to read a Fourdot nom, but it helps mmore to read a nom by a noobie, for the most part
<Top|Away>	It's the nature of the process when you have 45 noms and maybe 8-10 active reviewers. Noobs will suffer.
=-=	Fiolli|Away is now known as Fiolli|Busy
<Top|Away>	I don't know what more you can do.
<Top|Away>	If you focus on newbs, regular noms suffer
<Graestan>	Not entirely.
<ChackJadson>	Well, I do support getting Inq noms through quickly, so it is kinda a two-edged sword
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I tend to agree with Top, there.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Asking people to help noobs isn't going to really work.
<Graestan>	I just quit all the WookieeProjects I was in to focus on Inqing.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	The important thing is to maintain a balance.
<AdmirableAckbar>	People either will or they won't, really.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We can't force people to read every article, or just n00b articles.
<AdmirableAckbar>	No-one's being particularly nasty to them or anything.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We just ask that we try and spread our evilness around to all noms.
<AdmirableAckbar>	So why don't the people advocating noob-cherishing or whatever just do it themselves?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I don't think we can do better than that, tbh.
<Graestan>	I'm not going to make some cynical cop-out remark and leave it at that. It's not about sympathy or compassion, it's about doing the job that sometimes involves getting our hands dirty.
<Top|Away>	[[Noob-cherishing]]
<ChackJadson>	Eh, it's just that unlike most of you (I think), I was once a neglected noob on the FAN page
<Top|Away>	:D
<Graestan>	Yep.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Eh . . . I started writing FAs before the Inq. I wouldn't really know. :-
<AdmirableAckbar>	Getting my hands dirty wasn't part of the job description.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	:-P
<Top|Away>	Well, Joe, what you are waiting for, then?
<Graestan>	And /everyone/ here knows this isn't just about newbies. It's about Havac and Tommy.
<Top|Away>	Get noob-cherishing!
<Graestan>	Toprawa.
<ChackJadson>	Well, yeah Grae, some users are very...touchy like that
<ChackJadson>	That's a given that their noms will take longer
<AdmirableAckbar>	I find that reviewing Tommy noms is like reviewing a new user's nom, and if it's fairly long, then I don't really want to review it.
<Graestan>	Personally, I might have a look at some Havac work. To show that I don't have a personal beef with him.
* Ataru|Inqmoot	shrugs.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Again, no finger-pointing please.
<AdmirableAckbar>	I've reviewed one of his current stagnant noms but it's not a very attractive prospect.
<ChackJadson>	Havac articles are largely clean, FWIW. He's just so resistent to change
* Xwing328	goes to do at least one review tonight before getting a real meal
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	We want to try and maintain a semblance of being somewhat professional.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Too many subjective edits, gets older nominators offended of course.
<Fiolli|Busy>	Maybe we should redact some of this from the record, Ataru.
<AdmirableAckbar>	I'm not finger-pointing, I'm showing why some noms stay there so long.
<Graestan>	Cull: Subjective edits?
<Top|Away>	per Acky
<Top|Away>	it's finger-pointing
<Top|Away>	it's dickishness on the part of some, there I said it :P
<Top|Away>	not finger-pointing*
<Graestan>	Ataru: I only name names because the nominators will likely end up benefiting in the end from my urging people to actually read their work.
* Gonk|Smash	goes around the room collecting gloves
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Well, I'd like us to sort of stay on topic and discuss either Inq activity or attention to newbies.
<AdmirableAckbar>	There's a reason K-3PO, for example, has 4 Inqvotes already.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Edits that just change the style of the article. Or a wording choice. I'm more resistant to changing the format of a sentence when I'm reviewing. I'm find with others doing it to my noms. But some people are super-opposed to that sort of thing.
<Cull_Tremayne>	*fine
<Graestan>	Ah, I've never really had a problem with that with Hav.
<Graestan>	And I don't usually do too much of it, except that time I destroyed your sentence structure, Cull. :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	If this isn't going anywhere, I move that we advance to the next topic.
<Gonk|Smash>	I second that, Ataru
<Fiolli|Busy>	Look, some of us have run into issues with certain users in the past. That is life.
<Graestan>	It NEEDS to go somewhere.
<Xwing328>	oh, there's more?
<Fiolli|Busy>	Hold on . . . one second.
<Cull_Tremayne>	I'm not talking about you specifically. Just that some people have been known to revert a reviewer's "clean-up". :P
<Gonk|Smash>	yeah one more agenda item.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	One more bit.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Chack will now ask us about tutorials.
<Graestan>	Cull: So long as they don't do it after the vote
* Ataru|Inqmoot	looks at ChackJadson.
<ChackJadson>	Yeah, just can anyone working on one finish it soon, please?
<Fiolli|Busy>	I'll admit, I've had a big beef with a couple users in the past. You know what? I'm going to just man up and forget it now.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Graestan: Right, that's just a bit rude.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	TOPIC IS: Tutorials.
<Cull_Tremayne>	*straight-up rude
<Graestan>	Cull: I've banned for it.
<Fiolli|Busy>	Sadly, it has taken until three minutes ago for the lightbulb to go on, but I am urgiing other Inqs to do the same.
* Top|Away	whistles, marveling at how this whole topic is in regard to a single individual :P
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Graestan: Talking about the old topic won't help you avoid attention from your tutorial. :-P
<Gonk|Smash>	Chack: I actually just found my draft. I'd put it in the wrong directory >.< but I will indeed be working on it.
<ChackJadson>	Ok.
<Gonk|Smash>	It's great so far. It's all about clarity and effective use of language, but it's in bible-ese XD
<Graestan>	Ataru: I need to read a few more POV-ridden and OR-happy noms for fodder. ;)
<Cull_Tremayne>	Graestan transcends all boundaries.
<Graestan>	But I'd like to work on it this week.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay, just checking up on it.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	I like to hunt POV and OR, so I've been waiting for yours for MONTHS. :-P
<ChackJadson>	This just hasn't gone anywhere since like, what, July?
<ChackJadson>	Hopefully they'll be up soon.
<Graestan>	I had revelations today, thinking while working, about how even sourceable material can be POV.
<ChackJadson>	Anyone want to bug Tommy?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	No. I posted mine in the fall. :-P
<Top|Away>	The movies call the Empire evil!!!!!
<Top|Away>	NOT POVVVVVVVV
<ChackJadson>	Yeah, Ataru Fourdot, and Ey are good. Grae is like half-done, I think
<Fiolli|Busy>	I'm still willing to do one on locations (planets).
<ChackJadson>	*Ataru, Fourdot
<Gonk|Smash>	I'm... maybe a fifth done :)
<Top|Away>	I might never write mine.
<Graestan>	Tope: Exactly, and I will cite that every time someone calls me out on a POV objection.
<Top|Away>	You can all kick me out for that XD
<Cull_Tremayne>	It'd probably be better if people would suggest topics for other Inqs to do. I really can't think of any other ideas that need to be explained tbh.
<AdmirableAckbar>	I could do one but I don't know what on.
<ChackJadson>	Fiolli, go ahead if you want to
<AdmirableAckbar>	So, per Cull.
<Top|Away>	That's funny, Grae, because you made me change that in Davin Felth :P
<ChackJadson>	The only things I could do are taken
<Fiolli|Busy>	I have two planets and two buildings under my belt, so that might be the best for me.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Unless people just did a general advice sort of one.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	AdmirableAckbar: You could do one on surviving the FAN process.
<Gonk|Smash>	WP:INQ:DYDJ
<ChackJadson>	Maybe a collaboration for that, Acky?
<AdmirableAckbar>	I'll think about it.
<AdmirableAckbar>	Dunno really what I'd say.
<Cull_Tremayne>	Dumb Youth Dodge Jelly?
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	A lot of the work involved often has to do with how to handle and understand the FAN page.
<Gonk|Smash>	Cull: Yes.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	And those abrasive Inquisitors. :-P
<ChackJadson>	Patience, and friendliness are key
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	At any rate, Chack, are you satisfied with the tutorial status?
<ChackJadson>	Yeah, we're good
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay. Any other things to discuss?
<AdmirableAckbar>	Someone should do a tutorial on how to find problems with stuff.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Besides the chili and wine that Grae and Gonk brought.
<Fiolli|Busy>	My little two-year old niece just arrived, so I'm done if we are all done.
<Fiolli|Busy>	:D
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	*boxed wine
<Gonk|Smash>	I drank it all :'(
<ChackJadson>	*cough Toprawa cough*
<Top|Away>	What?
* Top|Away	looks around
<ChackJadson>	AdmirableAckbar> Someone should do a tutorial on how to find problems with stuff.
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	Okay if there's nothing else . . .
<Ataru|Inqmoot>	MEETING ADJOURNED.
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